Thursday September 24, 2009, 8:51 am
I wonder what Rep. Michelle "I'm refusing to fill out the census" Bachman (R-MN) thinks about this hanging?

This comes after House Speaker Nancy Pelosi expressed worry that something terrible would come from the right-wing rhetoric and frenzy of the tea baggers...and the republicans laughed at her.

What has this got to do with Glenn Beck, Fox News, the Tea Baggers and the frenzy of lies?

Everything. This is where the right-wing talking heads are leading the village idiots to violence and murder.

Thursday September 24, 2009, 8:53 am
I was up late last night when I heard this news. It shocked me. It should shock anyone in this country that a man was hung on a tree in this day and age. And he was hung for being a census taker for the government!! The method used to kill him was meant to send a message to others.

I feel everyone in this country is responsible for that man's death because we did not get Beck, Limbaugh, Bachmann and other right wing liars like them out of public viewing to be able to influence the village idiots.

Beck has been on the air warning that he would be blamed for deaths or violence like this.

Yelling 'FIRE!' where there is none, inciting idiots to violence, and spewing hateful messages to millions of people tells anyone with any wits about them that there will be thousands out of those millions who are capable of horrific acts like this. Beck better hope they don't find this man's murderer and he tells them he watches Fox News regularly and Beck in particular, although that's exactly what these people watch in the South. Clear Channel has the monopoly down there.

My condolences for this man's family. May he RIP and may they find his murderer.

Thursday September 24, 2009, 9:26 am
The Repugs should be shunned by all but their own lunatic fringe. They should be shut out of politics for decades by the 70% or so of Americans who are not insecure, hateful bigots! The rebel south is dying a slow painful death. Sure took a loong time, but the new south will no longer be a redneck/rebel stronghold. They squeal so loudly now because they know their days are numbered. Just a matter of time.

Thursday September 24, 2009, 9:40 am
Shocking & tragic ! I hope this is properly investigated.

Thursday September 24, 2009, 9:55 am
' WE WILL NOT BE DRIVEN BY FEAR INTO AN AGE OF UNREASON IF WE REMEMBER THAT WE ARE NOT DESCENDED FROM FEARFUL MEN,NOT FROM MEN WHO FEARED TO WRITE,TO SPEAK,TO ASSOICIATE AND TO DEFEND CAUSES WHICH WERE, FOR THE MOMENT. UNPOPULAR"
Edward R Murrow
American journalist ( 1908-1965)
on " See It Now" March 9, 1954

Marion I also saw this article as it posted last night...I hate to assume it was because he was a "fed" and it could be a random senseless murder by a sick soul....however the climate on the airwaves as you so eloquently stated is one of yelling "fire" or throwing scum into the waters of depair as thousands struggle to make sense out of why they have lost their jobs, lost their homes...or watch as their health fails and know they or their families cannot afford to get adequate care. To those in despair,pain,depression when someone claims they know there are death panels associated with a plan they panic and assume the sky is falling on their heads..and so they react without rational thoughts joined by others and we know the crowd mentality is a collective body with only one mind functioning...I may not agree or like another's opinion but then at least I know where they stand HOWEVER insighting a riot seems to be the only action some are wanting to see. I'd rather be dirt poor than make my living escalating any violence...

Thursday September 24, 2009, 10:09 am
I definitely hope the south is dying - unfortunately, one still has to merely mention Obama's name, Jimmy Carter, or the words "peace and compromise" in order to see a lot of anger and hate spew forth. This hanging is revolting and obviously done by someone with few morals and fewer brains. Heartbreaking for him, his family, and for all of America.

Thursday September 24, 2009, 10:13 am
This is out of control and no one is saying or doing anything seriously about it! Is another civil war brewing in this country? It sure feels like it. Starting back before the elections. This country is seriously divided.
Thank you Marion

Thursday September 24, 2009, 10:22 am
The liars are out of control and this poor man has paid with his life for it. I think it is wrong to blame the South. I is right to blame the tea baggers and the influence they have over idiots,

Thursday September 24, 2009, 10:37 am
Welcome to Right Wing GOP Faux Propaganda Inc. consequences. The hate and fear mongering of the Sarah Palin and G. Beck types is shaping weee minds of the humanoids that lack critical thinking: Nazis.

Tearful and scared, Nancy Pelosi predicted this with her intuition and common sense, as the rest of U.S. critical thinkers agreed. When is free speech a license to murder others with lies and false accusations. When you speak to racist, ignorant, monkey men who want to get their gun off or see blood to feel their power over others, that's when.

We have deprived the country too long of real high quality education that makes religion and primitive macho supremacy myths clearly understood as historically wrong and destructive to the world we live in. Now Obama wants to improve education, but it will be 20 years from now when we see a generation who can benefit, meanwhile we have the most ignorant and uneducated population of any modern industrialized, or what was once industrialized nation. Now we are a bunch of pleasure bubble consumers.

Corporate America wants U.S. bubble head consumers who can't think critically because they are the service class to the masses in you local walmart or mcdonalds... "We sure don't want people rocking the boat by getting folks to vote or think critically," said Corporate America. We want yisssserr bosss types and uncle tom days so we have to get rid of these socialist types and that is palin's and beck's legacy to America today. They are hatemongers and feed the ignorance of non-critical thinkers with bad and false in formation.

So now there is a majority of AmeriKans who don't know what is right. They think Obama isn't our president because he wasn't born here, or he is a Nazi=fear=kill him. What would you do if you could go back in a time machine to 1929 in Hamburg Germany and in a micro brewery there stood Hitler? You have a gun in your belt and nobody to stop you. Today's F. The Word News aka Fox is stirring up that kind of imagery for the critically thinking challenged... I really fear for Obama. What would we do without him? What would happen to the world without Obama today, much less the catastrophe that would occur here in the U.S.?

I think we need really tough laws to define free speech as not in sighting hate without hard evidence that is processed in a court of law, such as the evidence against Charlie Manson. Faux should be fined or closed down for making unsubstantiated claims that are supported by court rulings and evidence that we can all understand and confirm. Bush should be imprisoned for the lies to go to war, the demolition of the World Trade Towers with people in them as acts of treason, and if proved and convicted in court, bush should get the death penalty by having to eat all the hate mail he gets...

I am really tired of the political anarchy we are seeing today, where the rich and powerful can do what they want. Since I was born, shortly after WWII in the 50's, America has been fulfilling Eisenhower's prophesy of the Military Industrial Complex (MIC) taking over our government and running the world. Today's CIA history of coups and assignations of JFK and other world leaders are Corporate America's MIC expression of they will do what it takes to control the world we live in.

So, how much do you like your corporate created pleasure bubble now? What is it going to take to wake up Americans and take back our government and be respectable in the world as real freedom fighters who really live up to our current paper tiger: the U.S. Constitution? If it takes a generation or Obama's assignation it is too too tooo late. We need to jail these hatemongers when they spew their trash publicly and stop it.

"Fire it UP!" Ready to Go!! " "Fire it UP!" Ready to Go!! ""Fire it UP!" Ready to Go!! " "Fire it UP!" Ready to Go!! " "Fire it UP!" Ready to Go!! " "Fire it UP!" Ready to Go!! " "Fire it UP!" Ready to Go!! " "Fire it UP!" Ready to Go!! "

Wish I was in the street with 10,000 other people and we were one group in one city, but every major city had similar protests happening yelling these words and advocating need free speech based on real facts legislation NOW ! !

Geter done before it's too late and more die. We need legislation now Pelosi. Your intuition and fear are correct.

One World

Peace

Thursday September 24, 2009, 10:40 am
Seems to me to be getting worse. When you have right wing nuts giving talking points to Beck, Limbaugh, and Fox Views; what do you think will be the result? Well, it surely has begun. They (repubs) are dividing the nation, and instagting terrorists acts by their very words. If you keep yelling KILL, KILL, KILL, surly someone is going to take this up and kill someone. We alll know this, and yet, it goe on and on. The real majority of American are like sheep, waiting to hear from their leaders as what to do, and yet, knowing in thier hearts that something is wrong.

I'm both sad and scared about our future. The terror and evil we face is not some other country or culture, but comes from within.

Thursday September 24, 2009, 10:44 am
The tears flow for this man, his family and Our America. What are we doing to ourselves and each other? Going backwards? I will light a candle for this man, Mr. Bill Sparkman, tonight in hopes that he has made it into the light. What a horrific and senseless death...only 51 years old, so much left! The Repugs should hang their heads in shame. Beck, Savage and Limbaugh...are you proud of your work today?

Thursday September 24, 2009, 10:44 am
Thank you all for the comments above. You are all spot on right.I noticed this comment in this article:

"To be fair, most of the people I've met who live in hollars are normal folk whose family has just lived there a long time. They work, pay taxes, and vote -- just like everyone else. But if you live in deep in the Appalachians for long enough, you start to hear about certain hollars where strangers (especially the police and child protective services) just ain't welcome. The truth is always more complicated than it looks at first glance...

Anyway, anyone who had any business managing a group of census-takers in rural Kentucky should have known where these places are -- and either skipped them, or sent someone with the correct accent who already knows the area and the people. BTW, if you live in a rural area long enough, you can tell (within a few dozen miles if you're lucky) where a native of the area was born by the details of the accent -- I've moved away and lost the ability, but having the right shibboleths can be an important part of gaining trust.

I used to work for a pest-control program where we monitored insect populations over a large part of the country, most of which was Appalachian in nature. I worked in the IT portion of the program, but I got a chance to talk to the people who put the insect traps into the field. The folks who worked in Kentucky had a lot of stories. One fellow who worked for a public university told me that he always took his personal car when he did field work (rather than a university vehicle), because the residents were (rightly) afraid that any official vehicle was there on behalf of child protective services. He had another story of walking through the National Forest and coming across a guy sitting on a stool who told him very politely that there was nothing to see around the corner, and to have a nice day. One assumes that cannabis growing was nearby.

Many of the other people who did field-work were private contractors, and they were very good at the "I'm not from the government, and I don't care if you're growing pot" speech down. So, I'm guessing that the deep animosity in these pockets of Kentucky is more about survival and money, than about politics.

Murder is murder, but I felt the article and comments were missing some context."
--------------------------

My take on this comment...

If there are "pockets" in the USA where federal workers are not welcome and fear for their lives, then these places need to be investigated and stopped. We should not be providing state or federal funds to areas like this. If these cities receive federal or state funding in any way, they must provide information freely to the government. Don't want medicare, medi-cal, social security or any other benefits? Get off the payroll and secede!

I cannot believe these people are allowed to live as if they are an island unto themselves while receiving funding.

Thursday September 24, 2009, 10:58 am
More good comments, thank you!

Casey...You raise several astute points. I hope everyone reads and rereads your post above. Thank you!!

Thursday September 24, 2009, 11:01 am
with the cuurent politics of hatred and fear we are gearing toward countries that we watched from afar, where if a political party looses there is bloodshed, protests, destruction of property..I too am frightened of what may become of the America I once knew.....thanks Marion

Thursday September 24, 2009, 11:49 am
I wonder which FOX/Faux "news" hate-monger the murder(s) watch??? Maybe ACORN members should be glad they won't be helping with the census now...:( Reich-wingers go crazy enough on their own, but when they're encouraged & Rewarded by their "fearless leaders" it can be truly dangerous.

Thursday September 24, 2009, 1:04 pm
BigCatRescue...I agree. I don't recall the left wing getting violent over the abominable actions under the Bush Regime, where we had more justification to riot and act crazy. The back-ass-ward, batcrap crazies have been let loose...and it's not even Halloween. Sad.

Yvonne...You said a mouthful! Oh what fools these mortals be!

Thursday September 24, 2009, 1:07 pm
The more violence and unrest 'they' can foment, the easier it will be to sell us an even more militarized police state.

Thursday September 24, 2009, 1:13 pm
Wow, I am forwarding this to a friend in Maryland who does census surveys-she has related a few odd visits she has had, and laughed about them, but I think she too is someone who doesn't realize the potential danger...Very sad for the family. Thank you Marion.

Thursday September 24, 2009, 1:26 pm
Another day in the ignorance, still thriving, in the so called land of the "Brave and the Free"... Ignorance doing what it does best. Breeding hate. Terrorizing, torturing, then murdering an innocent! A man with a family trying to make a few bucks becomes the victim of insanity because prejudice "Dare" spews it's vileness far and wide.. Thanks Marion you beat me to the punch but thank God someone else understands what this crime out of Kentucky really means..

GWB and his cronies, along with Murdoch's Fox News idiots are hell bent on bringing this nation to her knees. "When do "WE" question, WHY"? These problems began some time back. But 8 years ago, under the GWB administration, these cocky, arrogant, willful empire building tyrants, "Dare" let it all hang out. No secret to those of US in the trenches. What better way to take a country down (From With-in)?

Instill one lie after another knowing full well that the ill informed, those filled with prejudice and or gr$$d, will take it to the next level and sadly, so it has. Lies and deceit coming from the media and the very "Dark" side of Washington has been growing, festering, and now its reached a fever pitch! That's what hate does. Festers until it overflows with all the vile it can muster.

It never ceases to amaze me how those who harbor prejudice will "Dare" take their pitiful blind sighted anger, steer it in all the wrong directions, thus executing the vile bidding of the faceless monsters usurping the very life out of millions of American's.

The media assisted in building this hate machine! Fox news has and is still leading the charge... What price must the working class of America, the Bill Sparkman's, pay before the insanity of near over a century ends? Thank you dear Marion. This shows how little "We" have learned about the brainwashing "Power of the Media"

Wake up those of you who are still in a "Dangerous" slumber! America's mainstream media owned and run by Hugh corporations have castrated The Congress of these United States thus leaving most of our elected officials, IMPOTENT! NOTE: Less a few "Brave Hearts"....

Insatiable GR$$D would "Dare" destroy the fabric of this nation because leeches, are void of conscious!

Assume Nothing! Question Everything! "When Dreams Die, So Goes Greatness!
Barbara/founder/dtdn

Thursday September 24, 2009, 1:31 pm
Shocking!!!
tragic ! I
hope this is properly investigated.

Thursday September 24, 2009, 2:18 pm
This is very disturbing. I am appalled by it. They need to find the b######/s responsible for it. May they rot in hell.

Thursday September 24, 2009, 2:41 pm
Sadly this sort of behaviour is only a little way below the surface everywhere and it only wants some idiot to fan the sparks of stupid bigotry for the nuts to come out of the goo they they inhabit! Maybe this poor guy was in the wrong place at the wrong time or saw some activity he was not supposed to. He could after all have come by anything from a dope factory to a dog fight and none of them would have been keen to have witnesses!

Thursday September 24, 2009, 2:47 pm
I HONESTLY DO NOT THINK THIS IS A MATTER OF FEAR.. ITS A MATTER OF ATTACKING WHAT WE KNOW. LIVES, ETC....I AM SO DAMN EMBARRASSED TO SAY I AM A DEMOCRAT... ITS ALL KINDA WEAVING TOGETHER..... WILL THEY TAKE OBAMA OUT IN HANDCUFFS??// HOW MANY OTHERS?????

Thursday September 24, 2009, 2:56 pm
Some excellent and heartfelt comments, here. Thank you!

Thursday September 24, 2009, 3:18 pm
this poor man lost his life i hope they get the evil scumbag who did this

Thursday September 24, 2009, 6:17 pm
Freedom of Speech and Everyone is supposed to COMPLY with the law, when it comes to the Census Agents/Bureau!! Do we have to start going door to door with the Swat Team, now?!! Activist Alexandra Marcella Manolesco-Ami!!

Thursday September 24, 2009, 6:54 pm
Geez... You want to blame this on Republicans and the south???? Jimmy Carter is the one going around spreading crap about racism.... Just because everyone doesn't agree with "the great one"... we are racist???? Carter needs to go back to his peanut farm.... Play with the nuts....

Thursday September 24, 2009, 7:17 pm
Thank you, Alexandra. We may have to get Swat, at least in these backwoods areas.

Another friend wrote the following in another thread:

"I could tell a few stories about isolated areas where there are unsolved murders and unreported murders.
Specifically Adams County in Wisconsin (i'm talking 20 years ago) had people with hidden secrets or whatever would shoot intruders on sight. It is interesting that the victim had been warned of a dangerous area by the police. Is it not near where a killer of several people hid out for months? ... In isolated and semi-isolated areas there are people with dark secrets. In some wooded areas if you happen to wander inside they are more likely to think you are one of them. because they are so well hidden. The reason I say that is i and my partner were invited into a house where i was eventually shown a large thumbnail picture gallery of incest children. I got us out of there as quickly as i could without creating a stir."

-----

My question is: If this man was hanged because he stumbled upon a dark secret, why would the criminal write "FED" across him?

I understand the investigation is still going on, we don't know if this was a suicide or homicide, and some parts of the story have changed (reports now state the victim was lying on the ground with a rope around his neck). However, all census work has stopped in those areas.

I'm sure Beck is on his knees tonight praying this was not a homicide and, if it was, it was not related to anything inciting he may have said.

Thursday September 24, 2009, 7:34 pm
So, Beck and Limbaugh and Thier HATE speech are Protected..

But Carter is Spreading it; and Should Go Home... To the Nuts;
I think he's already Spent More Than Enough Time,
With ALL The NUTS in The South;
To Be Able To Accuratly Call "Racist"; any Polititian;
or Radio Commentator/Hater

I've Lived in S Indiana and S Oregon; Backwoods/Dope Turf and it can Re Very Risky for strangers and "Tresspassers"...
When I lived in S Ore the Consensus Was:
Bury the Tresspassers/Rippoffs Deep;
Or they'll Come back With Friends and Torture Your Family...
(My Landlord Was Ripped of at Gunpoint one year;
so he Armed himself and was Ripped off Quietly in the night next year...
He Moved, That's how I got the place Cheap; but I Knew Better than to Grow There.
However We were very Polite to Rangers and Other Forestry workers.

Thursday September 24, 2009, 7:40 pm
I Feel that one Shouldn't Make "Bigoted Generalisations" About the People Down There; as it could Just as Easily been a "Kneejerk Overreaction" By Some Grower or Lab Operator; Not an Attack on the Federal Government;
& the word "Fed" was used as a Diversionary Tactic...

Thursday September 24, 2009, 7:50 pm
Beck is Probably looking forward to the Publicity...Sick Pandering Fic..

Thursday September 24, 2009, 8:29 pm
Please don't blame all southerns for such a awful crime. Me and alot of my Care2 friends are southern and we would never approve of this.Unfortunately,there are still some back country red necks but I am not one of them.

Thursday September 24, 2009, 10:52 pm
It isn't about hating anyone, it is about not hating everyone. When will this countries dysfunctional culture mature beyond the pathological splitting of good from bad, black from white, and us and them? Our culture is like a child's eye view of reality. The father-god is in charge and we can be impulsive, macho, and hateful because we don't have to be responsible for our actions. It is a challenge to the father to show his power to control U.S., but when he does nothing, it is the same as sanctioning the hate and racism or political fascism. This is today's GOP, not just a southern thing.

Being part of the world community means recognition of our species, not just a race, family, or culture. We are on one raft floating threw space and if we wreck the quality of life on our raft we are "sunk." Hate and war is the oldest expression of sex-dominance and aggression in human or any other species from sharks to lions.

When we recognize our origins as part of the earth's life forms and desire to live in harmony with our planet as a species we will know the power of love is greater than the love for power and have peace.

One World

Peace

Friday September 25, 2009, 12:56 am
Those of us who us who don't live in the southern states are apt to think of rednecks as a gut reaction to the appalling cruelty that emanates from those areas. However Most of us realise that not all southerners are rednecks and most are good people as everywhere. When we see something nasty we react somtimes in autopilot and generalisation can be hurtful. For example southerner in the UK is often used by northerners to indicate the idle rich or people who are afraid of work which to me as a southerner can be hurtful. Just because a have a decent education and speak the Queen's English it does not mean that I'm idle or into chasing foxes around the countryside on my horse whilst wearing a red jacket or blasting away at pheasants with my gun I could never find room for them in my truck or bus! The northern county (well its well north of Watford!) I currently live in exported many rednecks to the US centuries ago unfortunately one or two got left behind so we still have our problems with animal abuse. I sometimes make the mistake of liberal use of the tar brush myself but we should all realise that not all Floridians are animals abusers, not all Chinese are dog killers, not all Canadians are seal clubbers nor all South Africans are canned hunt organisers, not all Spaniards support bullfighting not all Japanese eat whale or support dolphin murder etc etc. So from now on I'm going to try not to knee jerk too often and any nationalities I mention, does not include the good caring people of those countries or regions that I might vent my spleen on! Casey makes the very valid point I have so often remarked on that some view the world from a childlike or even childish perpective, sadly some of us have had to grow up although being Peter Pan has a lot of appeal still!

Friday September 25, 2009, 6:23 am
I fear as you, that this is only the tip of the iceberg. I hope that Beck and his boys will realize that what they are doing is leading this country down a path of violence, but they already know that.

Fox News Channel was invented by the Republican party and the top 5% to be the front line of offense, in their attempt to not only destroy Obama, but to stop the people of the US from taking back what the Republicans and that top 5% have stolen from us.

They started their plan way back in the sixties when Kennedy was assassinated. After his death they took gold and silver from backing our money. Leading economists of that time said that without gold and silver backing our money, we were on the road to economic disaster. They said that the rich would get richer and the poor would get poorer. They said that they had let the evil monster called inflation out of the cage that it was put in by our founding fathers.

From the signing of the constitution until 1964 we had almost no inflation at all. From 1964 until today, who knows, 300%, 500%, 1000% ? They have been stealing from us for so long that they feel that they are entitled to keep doing it. They will do ANYTHING to stop any legislation that might stop them.

Don't be fooled. Fox is only a mouthpiece for the rich. Violence is only a tool to them. We need to counter their attacks with more information contradicting the lies that are being fed to those are most affected by what has happened in the last 10 yrs. to our economy. Many people are mad. They will listen to anyone who points a finger of blame. We must find a way to get them to see the truth before Fox gets to them.

Friday September 25, 2009, 6:43 am
Rod and Debbie...Thanks for correcting me and others. It is definitely wrong to label all southerns. If that's what I said, that's not what I meant. I'm not going back up the thread to track my statement. However, there are some things going on there (like other parts of the nation) where folks cannot freely travel. I'm not going to get into a spitting match over whether what these people do is their right to illegal activities or not. I shouldn't have to. However, where I live in California and from what I've learned about the nation, if we do something illegal, we travel at our own risk. If this was a homicide for being discovered of an illegal activity, it is still a horrific crime.

Casey and Chris raise good points. If we care about humanity, live without fear of wrongdoing and don't have hate in our hearts, we wouldn't be seeing things like this happen. Regardless what the circumstances are with this situation, if it is a homicide, it is wrong and it's horrific.

I will post here any significant news I learn on this case.

Friday September 25, 2009, 6:51 am
I totally agree that those "celebrities" like Limbaugh, Beck, Hannity, and people anywhere in power, albeit political, governmental, parties like the GOP, people that continue to cause hate-mongering, that deliberately try and get others so brain washed by their own garbage, that they have a horrible influence on others. Think about what this does to our kids minds if it already warps the minds of adults! This is just plain sick. This is just plain murder, plus a hate crime to boot, if they find out foul play was involved. It is a shame that in this modern day time, where we want all to be equal, there are those out there that continue to reek havoc with their bigotry and hatred!

Friday September 25, 2009, 6:56 am
OUTSTANDING comment, James!!!

You identified the disease we deal with quite well. If the majority of the middle class understood this, we wouldn't be dealing with the republican party, their shills and their lies right now. The republicans have raped this nation and left us on the ground to die. And now, they drive by and continue to run over us again and again. How many lives do we have to overcome their corruption? I think we are at the end of our rope.

Getting rid of Fox News and their talking heads is a first step, calling out the republican lies is next, and educating the masses is critical to healing this nation. Thanks again for a great post, James!

Friday September 25, 2009, 7:57 am
http://michellemalkin.com/2009/09/25/i-killed-the-kentucky-census-worker-along-with-every-conservative-in-america/

Something horrible happened to Bill Sparkman, who worked part-time as a Census worker in rural southeastern Kentucky.

He was found dead. Tied to a tree. Preliminary tests show he died of asphyxiation.

But the “cause of Sparkman’s death is under investigation, and authorities have not ruled out suicide, an accident or homicide, said Kentucky state police spokesman Don Trosper. A full medical report on Sparkman’s death is not complete,” according to the Washington Post.

Let me repeat that: The “cause of Sparkman’s death is under investigation, and authorities have not ruled out suicide, an accident or homicide, said Kentucky state police spokesman Don Trosper. A full medical report on Sparkman’s death is not complete.”

No matter. A speculative rumor spread by the Associated Press that Sparkman may have been targeted because of his Census job — coupled with an unsubstantiated claim that “fed” was “scrawled” on his chest — was enough “evidence” for the nutroots to convict every outspoken conservative activist and advocate for limited government of a murder that has yet to be determined a murder.

Democratic Underground immediately posted a “Handy Guide to how Republicans and Fox News are responsible for Census worker being hanged,” where a DU user fumed:

We need to absolutely expose Glenn Beck, Michele Bachmann, Michelle Malkin, CNN’s Lou Dobbs, Michael Steele, Rush Limbaugh and the legion of others parroting right-wing lies for trumping up this nonsense and getting people to now commit murder in a hideous fashion.
The Democratic Underground is an unrepresentative fring voice, you say? Well, here’s the “respectable” New York magazine pointing hysterical fingers at Bachmann, Limbaugh, “conservative media personalities, websites, and even members of Congress.”

Newsbusters spotlighted HuffPo indictments issued against conservative talk radio for the Sparkman’s death.

Radio Equalizer has video and transcript of left-wing radio loon Stephanie Miller blaming the Tea Party movement.

And Allahpundit points to this heinous graphic of a hanged man implicating yours truly, Sarah Palin, the Second Amendment, and every blanket criticism of ACORN, the SEIU, illegal immigration, Obamacare, and socialism under the sun.

They did this with the George Tiller shooting and the Holocaust Museum shooting and the Binghamton immigration center shooting. Motives had yet to be determined and bodies were still warm, but that did not stop the stampede from exploiting every bloody opportunity to redefine conservative political expression as an incitement to violence.

Meanwhile, other details initially reported by the AP that sparked the Census worker-was-murdered-because-he-was-a-government-worker meme continue to crumble. From McClatchy:

William E. Sparkman, 51, of Laurel County, Ky., reportedly had the word “fed” scrawled on his chest. That raised questions about whether he was killed because of hard feelings against the government and catapulted the mysterious death into a national story.

However, on Thursday, police had not confirmed Sparkman was even doing census work in Clay County at the time he died, said Capt. Lisa Rudzinski, commander of the state police post handling the investigation.

One media report — which quoted a census official saying a computer Sparkman used for census work was found in his truck near the cemetery — wasn’t true, Rudzinski said.

Police found Sparkman’s red pickup truck, but the computer wasn’t in it, she said.

…”There are too many unanswered questions for us to lean one way or the other,” Rudzinski said. “We have not ruled this is a hate crime against a federal employee. We’re still trying to determine if foul play was involved.”

…Reports that Sparkman was hanging from a tree at the cemetery create an image that doesn’t fit the evidence where Sparkman was found, Rudzinski said. Sparkman had a rope around his neck that was attached to a tree, but he was not hanging in the sense that many people envision, she said. Sparkman’s body was in contact with the ground, state police said in a news release.

News that Sparkman had the word “fed” on his chest came to the Associated Press from a law enforcement official who requested anonymity. The official did not tell the AP what was used to scrawl the word on Sparkman.

David Beyer, a spokesman for the Federal Bureau of Investigation in Kentucky, said the agency was assisting state police and trying to figure out if Sparkman’s death had anything to do with his being a federal employee.

State police contacted the FBI about the case because Sparkman was a federal employee, not because of a belief that his death resulted from his employment, Rudzinski said.
To recap:

1) Police have not determined yet that this was murder.

2) He wasn’t hanging from the tree.

3) It hasn’t been determined if he was even working as a Census data collector at the time of his death or whether that job had anything at all to do with his demise.



This is the kind of knee jerk reaction that will not allow us to get beyond racism.

Shame on all of you.

Friday September 25, 2009, 9:25 am
NE L (I can't help but think it stands for "Not Even Logical)...

May I remind you of a thread where you and your friends jumped to conclusions and were outed?

We have already stated above we don't know what happened. We do know that Fox News, Beck, Bachmann and others have said inciting things that could be implicated in this. "Could be"are the imperative words here. Yet, they are not off the hook regardless.

The shame is on you for letting Beck, Malkin and other shills do your thinking.

Friday September 25, 2009, 9:28 am
For those of you who follow Beck, Malkin, Fox News, republicans and other shills for the elites...here's a statement from my friend James L in another thread that expresses my thoughts so well:

"This is only the tip of the iceberg. I hope that Beck and his boys will realize that what they are doing is leading this country down a path of violence, but they already know that.

Fox News Channel was invented by the Republican party and the top 5% to be the front line of offense, in their attempt to not only destroy Obama, but to stop the people of the US from taking back what the Republicans and that top 5% have stolen from us.

They started their plan way back in the sixties when Kennedy was assassinated. After his death they took gold and silver from backing our money. Leading economists of that time said that without gold and silver backing our money, we were on the road to economic disaster. They said that the rich would get richer and the poor would get poorer. They said that they had let the evil monster called inflation out of the cage that it was put in by our founding fathers.

From the signing of the constitution until 1964 we had almost no inflation at all. From 1964 until today, who knows, 300%, 500%, 1000% ? They have been stealing from us for so long that they feel that they are entitled to keep doing it. They will do ANYTHING to stop any legislation that might stop them.

Don't be fooled. Fox is only a mouthpiece for the rich. Violence is only a tool to them. We need to counter their attacks with more information contradicting the lies that are being fed to those are most affected by what has happened in the last 10 yrs. to our economy. Many people are mad. They will listen to anyone who points a finger of blame. We must find a way to get them to see the truth before Fox gets to them."

Shame on those who follow these shills...

Friday September 25, 2009, 9:37 am
Anyone who can be incited to violence by a TV personality would be incited by ANYTHING. They would have to already be very sick.

Friday September 25, 2009, 9:43 am
NE L - now don't you go making sense again...
A couple of things to point out - Clay County Kentucky is in a region infamous for moonshining and marijuana growing. It also has recently been the subject of FBI investigations into racketeering of public officials. None of this has anything to do with radio or TV shows. This poor fellow could have been murdered for any number of reasons in Clay County. To try and tie this with Beck or Rush is the height of silliness.
Kentucky, while lumped into the "south" geographically, is not really a southern state in the real sense of the word. After all it was a Union State in the war of northern aggression, and the birth place of Abraham Lincoln, that notorius Republican.

But what is really disturbing to me are comments like, "Getting rid of Fox News and their talking heads is a first step..." That my friends is promoting censorship plain and simple. Don't give me any of this "yelling fire in a crowded theater" crap either. I watch Fox on occasion. Not all the time, but enough to be able to confidently say I have never heard any calls for violence whatsoever. NONE. An opinion you don't happen to agree with is NOT "hate speech." A difference of opinion in a free country is healthy and futhermore unquestionably protected by the 1st Amendment. As always I encourage all to read the Constitution. Learn it and live it.

Friday September 25, 2009, 9:45 am
NE L WHY ALL THE HATING? MY MOM IS 70, WEVE BEEN TO MORE POLITICAL RALLIES THEN I CAN SAY, ALL DEMOCRAT, SUDDENLY MY MOM DECIDED SHE DIDNT LIKE oBAMA,AND YES, MOSTLY ITS HIS COLOR, WE WERE NOT BROUGHT UP RACIST, 3 YEARS AGO, MY REAL DAD DIED , SUDDENLY MOM STARRTED WATCHING FIX, AS HE THOUGHT HE HAD TO BE A RUPUGLICAN BECUASE HE HAD BILLIONS, NONE LEFT FOR ME 2ND BORN OF 7.SHE IS ANGRY VIOLENT AND RANTS, AND NO SHE DOES NOT HAVE ANY CONDITIONS THAT WOULD CUASE, AS I SPOKE TO HER DR? I GET PHSYICALLY SICK WHEN SHE CALLS TO RRANT, ABOUT 12-30 TIMES A DAY. INSISTING I KNOW NOTHING BECAUSE I NOT ONLY WATCH FOX, BUT ALL THE NEWS CHANNELS,I ALSO READ THE PAPER,GET "THE WEEK" AND READ ON LINE. DO NOT TELL ME THAT FOX DOESNT MAKE ONE ANGRY.. THATS THEIR POINT .. SHES CONSTANTLY QOUTING BECK AND HOW HE PRACTICALLY INVENTED EVEY ITEM IN THE WOLD. ME?? I JUST WANT MOM BACK. POLITICAL STANDINGS MEAN NOTHING IN SO FAR AS MY LOVE FOR HER.

Friday September 25, 2009, 10:07 am
Thanks, Kristen. The point of these rants is to disrupt healthy discourse. That's what they do. They are angry, mean-spirited souls who aren't even sure anymore what the real fight is about, only that they want to fight. The more angry they are, the more they are losing. But this is not about winning. This is about doing right toward one another. If we resort to meanness and attacks in threads, what does this mean for our children, the country and the world? Hate, fear and meanness merely shows how small and shallow we are.

It appears that REAL conservatives are fed up with Beck and Faux News antics...

Glenn Beck Faces Backlash -- From the Right
It seems as if Beck may be marginalizing himself in a way that will, if we're all really lucky, make him permanently toxic to those who take politics seriously.

> "In early August, Rep. Bob Inglis (R) of South Carolina, who isn't exactly a moderate, encouraged his constituents to "turn the TV off" and stop listening to Glenn Beck. "

> "On Tuesday, MSNBC's Joe Scarborough blasted Beck, and argued that the Fox News personality may be fomenting violence. "You cannot preach hatred," Scarborough said. "You cannot say the president is racist. You cannot say things that have very deadly consequences." He added, in an apparent reference to the Oklahoma City bombing, "I was in Congress in 1995. I know where this can end." Scarborough also called on Republican leaders to "call out" Becks' "hatred."

> "Right-wing radio host Mark Levin called Beck "pathetic."

> "Rush Limbaugh referred to Beck's role in promoting conservative protests as "cheap and disingenuous. [Coming from Rush, this is bad news for the Beckster]"

> "Peter Wehner said Beck's "interest in conspiracy theories is disquieting" and his daily attacks are "not good for the country." Wehner called Beck a "roiling mix of fear, resentment, and anger."

> "Conservative columnists Kathleen Parker and David Brooks told Chris Matthews that Beck is "baiting" and "empowering" racists."

Excepting Limbaugh, these are all republicans/conservatives who want to remain credible and in the game. They realize the fringers are collapsing their party, headed by Beck, Malkin, Bachmann and others. Beck has no credibility. Those who follow these nutjobs have no credibility with me either and offer nothing to this discourse. If you folks want to help your party, cling to another talking head. Beck is sinking your ship.

Friday September 25, 2009, 11:28 am
Thanks Mark.

Kristen...what hating?

Maybe you should listen to your elders. After alll she has been around a lot longer than you and she has awoken to the fact that the Democrat party is expert at keeping minorities in the minority.

Friday September 25, 2009, 11:38 am
Kristen...Hang in there. You will get your mom back.

Friday September 25, 2009, 12:14 pm
FIRST I AM 44. MIDDLE AGED, MY ELDERS ARE SO DRUGGED UP FROM THE DR. YOU WANT HER, COME GET HER.... BE PREPARED TO LISTEN TO HER RANT AND TELL YOU 20 MINUTES AFTER YOU SAY SOMETHING THAT SHE OR MY STEP BROTHER THOUGHT OF IT.. FIRST OFF, MY STEP BRO AND SIS.... WHAT A DAMN MESS, SHES OK, BUT HIM I HAVENT SPOKEN TO IN 8 YEARS THOUGH HE LIVES VERY CLOSE. HE HAS ALWAYS TAKEN EVERY SINGLE THING OUT ON ME, THOUGH I WAS FAR AWAY AT THE TIME. HE ACCUSSES ME OF SO MANY THINGS I FEEL HE NEEDS TO BE LOCKED UP, SO I JUST STAY AWAY. EASIER HE IS JUST WAITING FOR MOM TO DIE, SO HE AND HIS THIRD WIFE AND HER TWO KIDS CAN "STEAL" HER HOME, TRUTH.SAD BUT OH SO TRUE, ALL THE OTHER 3 OF US KNOW IT, SADLY THE 3 RD CHILD WILL SAY OHHH. ITS OK, SO LONG AS SHE AND HER JEWELER SPOUSE GET HER HALF MIL, IN HER JEWELRY, YEAH ANOTHER TRUTH.... MY STEP DAD WAS A HORRIBLE MAN AND I WILL NOT GO INTO THIS W/ you. AS i TRULY BELEIVE YOU WOULDNT CARE, I DONT THINK YOU CARE ABOUT MUCH EXCEPT YOURSELF. SO SELF CENTERED PERSON, DO NOT BOTHER ME AGAIN, OR ELSE THE TROLL PATROL W/ DESTROY YOUR MEMBERSHIP. THEY ARE VERY, VERY GOOD AT IT. OH YEAH MY ELDER SIS. IS IN CHARGE OF MY FATHERS ESTATE, ITS TRULY WORTH BILLIONS, (DINGMAN DATA, IS ONE OF 3 HE OWNED,) HUNTING LAND A HOME IN THE MOUNTAINS W/ A BOAT, ETC..OOPS AND A 500,000. HOME. SHE HIDES BEHIND HER LAWYER KNOWING I HAVE RA. LUPUS, HEPC (TRANSFUSIONS FROM GIVING BIRTH TO MY ONLY CHILD IN 86) RANUALDS, FIBRO, DAMN I DONT EVEN WANT TO GO FARTHER. JUST GO AWAY TROLL. GOOO NOW SHOOSHOO BABY..

Friday September 25, 2009, 12:18 pm
ONCE AGAIN THANK YOU MARION.. GOT IT RIGHT ON THE NOSE........ SICK OF STUPIDITY. THANK YOU FOR BACKING ME.

Friday September 25, 2009, 12:21 pm
OOPS THAT WAS FOR NE, NOT YOU M FRIEND MARION.

Friday September 25, 2009, 12:23 pm
You're welcome, Kristen. I understand. We all have family issues, but I will try to keep this thread on the topic of the census worker who was hanged and what may be the cause.

Friday September 25, 2009, 2:14 pm
I'd say that FED, a clear message, plastered on this mans chest and a hanging says something about the who, what and why of this issue. If not then I "Dare" say the hateful rhetoric of these period gave someone an excuse to hide behind in order to commit murder. As for Fox news. Free speech is not what they're after. O'Reilly is an arrogant interviewer and his plan is to embarrass those he disagrees with.

I recall a young man interviewed shortly after 9/11 and the lead up to war with Iraq..This young man lost his dad in one of the towers but he was not for going into Iraq and could not understand why we were going there saying that Iraq was not responsible for 9/11. O'Reilly jumped all over this very young man and said he was un-American and that his father would be ashamed of him because the war was something that was right.. That's not journalism! That's what a single minded mean spirited brainwashing fool would do.. The war was wrong from the start. This young person somehow realized that but had to take abuse for his opinion..

Rupert Murdoch who owns Fox is not America's friend! I am unsure what his overall problems/issues are but he has been glomming up every media, TV, Newspapers, Radio, Magazines, etc, outlet. That's called a monopoly! Monopolies are not in the best interest of a free society..

If one person/corporation owns everything then they dictate, you listen...
Small business knows what this means. They're out! Corporate interest in! Some of the problems facing America are big business owning the airwaves dictating what we see, hear, eat, drink or believe should we be simple enough to fall into such a trap..

There's a play on words often used.. Bait and Switch then spin it to death..Pharmaceutical drug ads designed to make sure you can never sue speak to this freedom lost...It's called discovery! Check it out.. What did you know and when did you know it...You are nothing but an unpaid guinea pig in today's market...

If the airwaves and newspapers are owned by the very few then the news will be slanted, controlled so the interest of the monopoly are first and foremost met. What else can we expect from a monopoly?

Friday September 25, 2009, 2:27 pm
feds was written in felt tipped pen?????? weird huh?

Friday September 25, 2009, 3:01 pm
pREZ.cARTER WAS PART OF THE INVENTION OF NUCLEAR SUBS. A QUITE MAN DOES NOT MEAN STUPID... LOOK UP HISTORY MORON.. BESIDES.. JIMMY WAS TRYING TO SAVE PEOPLE WHILE REAGAEN ALREADY HAD THEM IN HIS PAWS.... MY EX HUSBAND WAS INVOLVED, SO DO NOT EVEN TRY TO SCREW W/ ME.. BEEN THERE, N HOW ABOUT YOU.

Friday September 25, 2009, 3:09 pm
Mark G

I'm glad that you mentioned th Constitution. Yes, it says that we have "Freedom of Speech" but just like freedom,it is not absolute. I have spent many years reading the constitution and I have come up with this definition of "Freedom".

Freedom is the right for any individual to do anything he/she wants, as long as they do not violate the rights of another individual.

The definition of "Freedom of Speech would be the same. You have the right to say anything you want until you violate the rights of another individual. Once you violate the rights of another, you have committed an act of slander.

Do I have the right to come over to your house and call you a racist, child molester or can I tell your neighbors that I believe that you are a homosexual. When doses my freedom of speech stop.

It's absurd for you to believe that anyone can say anything they want, about anyone the don't like. If you can't prove it in a court of law, you can be held accountable. This is what the boys at fox are trying to do. They are trying to race bait the President. They want him to defend the fact that he is not a racist. He is to smart for them. He knows that the best way to deal with this kind of trash talk, is to ignore it.

Friday September 25, 2009, 3:18 pm
LOVE CARTER...HATE THE PUPPET EFFECT,, WHAT THE HECK IS WRONG W/ EVERYONE.. LETS WAKE UP AND "HELP" THE ONES W/ NOTHING.....

Friday September 25, 2009, 3:29 pm
calling the president a racist doesn't explicitly call for violence, but it will incite it somewhere, in some form or another. just as young people quote lyrics from violent songs before they go on a rampage. the song isn't the cause, but it fuels the fire.

Friday September 25, 2009, 3:45 pm
Those who say Kentucky isn't realy Part of the South Are Right in a Way; As Appalacia is it's Own Country; has been Forever;
Whoever Racism Knows No Mason Dixon Line I grew up in Centrl and S Central Indiana; one State North of Kentucky and The KKK and Nazis; Both Oldschool German and Biker NeoNazi's are Well Known Groups There; Places with Names Like "Whitestown"...
In my expierience; the Deep South Can be Much more Polite & controlled; Than Some of the Northern Pockets of Hate and Ignorance...

Friday September 25, 2009, 5:20 pm
James L., I appreciate that you "have spent many years reading the constitution and I have come up with this definition of "Freedom". " But if you don't mind I really prefer the definitions of Morris, Paine, Adams, Randolf, Madison, Jefferson, et al. You know the ones who were actually involved in the writing of it.
Since you do so much reading you may have read Jefferson's admonition that freedom of speech "cannot be limited without being lost."
Or perhaps this wasn't on your reading list?

Friday September 25, 2009, 6:32 pm
Barbara...I agree...free speech is not what they're after...and they're not after the truth either.

James... You raise a good issue on the freedom of speech. People have a tendency to manipulate the constitution to suit their needs. But in a court of law, I believe your definition holds.

Catherine...Exactly. Beck is beating the war drums by fomenting violence.

Friday September 25, 2009, 6:47 pm
UPDATE ON THE VICTIM, BILL SPARKMAN:

The victim was found nude with only his socks on, with his hands and feet bound with duct tape. His Census Taker ID was duct taped to the side of his head and neck. He was found hanging from the tree, but in an odd position...his feet were touching the ground. "Fed" was written on him with a felt tipped pen.

A witness said he had heard hollering noises coming from the near the cemetery where Sparkman was found. The authorities have yet to issue a statement as to why or if he was murdered. Asphyxia (suffocation or lack of oxygen) was cause of death.

As Rod Gesner and someone else mentioned, lots of illegal activity goes on in that area. Sparkman could very well have walked in on something, this could have been a hate crime against a federal worker, suicide hasn't been ruled out (but not likely), and he could have been involved in something kinky. In any event, hopefully we will get answers soon.

Mr. Sparkman earned his degree late in life. He was working part-time as a census taker until a teaching job became available.He was liked by everyone who knew him and was a dedicated, hard worker who enjoyed what he did. So sad.

I will provide updates as they become available.

Friday September 25, 2009, 6:50 pm
God rest his soul. It is just horrible. If he was murdered, which he almost assuredly was; I hope the animals that did this to him are brought to justice before they kill again.

Friday September 25, 2009, 6:56 pm
even without this case ,it is very clear that something dark has been purposely stirred in America since Obama's election..and that those who are doing the real stirring..not just the idiotic tools like Beck..will manage to sneak into the shadows with what look to the naked eye, to be clean hands.
People are being played..people let down by the education system,who are very near to the bottom of society's ladder.
The messages are clear..even without this sorry tale ..the far right are very angry and the sense of entitlement they have learnt to feel,has taken a massive kicking..they don't really beleive the liberals have any real right to power..thats what all of the tea-parties,rants on Fox and brown shirt town hall thugs are about..
Thanks Marion..for the post,your comments and for being Marion.

Friday September 25, 2009, 8:32 pm
Mark G.
I guess you won't mind if I go door to door in your neighborhood and tell all of you neighbors that you are a communist and that your sexual preference is for 8yr. old little boys. Maybe I could tell them that you are a homosexual, a racist and a thief. I can make up more if you want me to. I would just be expressing my opinion and using my freedom of speech. I could call your boss and tell them that you are sleeping with his wife. It wouldn't be hard to get you fired. But you wouldn't mind, would you? I can say whatever I want. Because I live in America. If you don't like it, too bad. I'm covered by the constitution.

Don't be ridiculous, you would have me in court in no time.

When they wrote the constitution. If I called someone a racist, thief or liar I would end up in a duel. So I don't believe that our founding Fathers definition of "Freedom of Speech" was "absolute". No more then I believe
that the definition of freedom is "absolute". "Absolute Freedom would mean that anybody can do whatever they want. I can kill you and you can steal if you want to if "Absolute Freedom" is what our Founding Fathers meant.

You don't have to be a genius to understand that "Freedom of Speech" like "Freedom" itself has it limits.

If you check out my profile you will find more quotes by Thomas Jefferson then by anyone else. I have read just about everything ever written by or about him. He is my biggest hero.

Logic is the key to most things. This debate is no different

Friday September 25, 2009, 9:56 pm
Sometimes I feel We should Go Back to Code Duelo; It Would Reduce The Population of Jerks and Arrogant Fics;
It Worked like This; Someone Offends You Thru Slander or any other Offensive Act; You Challenge Them; They have Pick of Weapons; That You, the Challenger Provide; When Dueling Went From sword to Pistol; Those Who Were Prepared; had Pistols Made That Didn't Shoot (Aim) Straight; One Would Shoot High to the Right and the Other Low to the Left; The Offending Party; ie.. Jerk; Would Pick, Not Knowing Which Weapon Shoot Up or Down; (as They were made to look Identical) However the Owner of the Pistols Knew and Could Compensate When Firing; Thus it Became Very Dangerous; To Offend or Slander Someone That Carried Thier own Set of Pistols...
Of Course; Six Shooters, ShotGuns, Semi Auto, Machine Guns; Changed That Dynamic...
But We could have a Modern TV Event Where Pompous Trouble Makers (like Rush and Beck) Were Called Out By Those They Offended; and Publicly Embarrassed By thier Cowardice..
(Most Bullies Are Simpering Cowards When Faced With Even Odds)

Friday September 25, 2009, 10:04 pm
Rod I do have Hillbilly family in southeastrn oklahoma and they are secluded but peaceful people so I so know what you mean. But they dont really like interlopers...I mean my cousins they can shoot guns, rifles, bows, crossbows you name it for it is the way they were taught but they are still good peeps. But I do say they are wary of interlopers and they can tell if you are not from that area, but they are good peeps just a bit backwoods...LOL

Big Gorilly Hugs

Saturday September 26, 2009, 1:34 am
This poor man was found naked with his Census ID taped to him and the word fed written on his chest with a felt tipped pen as told by one who found him named Jerry Wilson on Maddow Fri. night. Why aside from this damning evidence do we think it most likely is a hate crime? Evidence of course, but also the context of the time we are living in, the mood, created by those who have manufactured that climate to defeat health care reform, and to defeat the Democrats and Obama.

The wing nuts have said everything in the book to create and stoke a climate of hate, racism,and fear in an apparent effort at best, intended to gain some political advantage for their Corporate masters, and at worst with the help of extremely incendiary talk by right wing shills like Beck, bring about an early and abrupt end to this spark of hope, which has such potential and could be so much more than just this great beginning we have now. To many times in my lifetime I have seen that spark smothered. Some don't need much of a push.

Some in the Republican party, now that it has created this climate are backing away in some small ways so as to distance themselves from consequences if they happen. And they are happening. They know that they can't always get away with saying its the left or some drug dealer. With despicable republican apologists such as Joe Scarborough as the new "voices of reason" within this Bush/post Bush swing to the extreme of his party now trying to separate themselves from Beck, I think we are seeing some of the more clever in the party realize that like drunken frat boys they have created, something that may bring them all down if they don't throw at least Beck under the bus.

Most of the players will remain the same though, and the drum beat of devision and fear will, though not as transparently insane still be certifiable and on message. He is not one of us, "they" are taking over "our" country, Christianity is under attack, He's a Moslem, a baby killer, a Communist,a Nazi, Racist...

On and on go the crazed fearful disrespectful attacks made under the banner of "fair and balanced" wrapped in the flag, that they say they represent. They lie.

Saturday September 26, 2009, 2:58 am
Thanks Marion and noted. There are a lot of very good comments here and I'm glad I read them! The poor man was duct taped all over. Even if the crime is under investigation I highly doubt he duct taped himself in all those places!

There are good people and bad people everywhere. I was born in the south and rasied in the north. I've seen an awful lot of racism here in the north also. Here is a good map to look at for tracked hate groups;
http://www.splcenter.org/intel/map/hate.jsp
This will give you an idea of the known hate groups in each state.

One has to ask why they would murder a census worker? My guess is stirred up hate from Beck and fellow hate mongers but hopefully they will find the murderers and find out the truth. Then hopefully they will put these murderers in for life or give them the death penalty.

The Bush administration did a good job of "divide and conquer." That is one of the 1st things I noticed after 9/11. He was turning straights against gays, republicans against democrats, evangelists against other religions, etc. I mean he was creating a bigger divide than there already was. This I believe to be the work of the New World Order, Bilderbergs. CFR types.
I leave you with this;
http://www.nationalcenter.org/HouseDivided.html
Thanks everyone!

Saturday September 26, 2009, 6:43 am
To Marty H - yes you are right - the north does have it share of racism. As a upstate New Yorker - a friend was telling me about a candidate who is black, lived here all his life. When this candidate was campaigning, he asked his fellow party member(s) to go with him, door to door. The candidate said, that he would never go alone, especially into the back roads here by himself and knock on doors, he was fearful that they would be unable or scared to talk one on one with a black candidate. But getting back to the hanging in the south, whether or not words were written on this poor man's chest, is just another clue. THe main thing that it is properly investigated and that those who did this to him, be brought to justice. The media is in a frenzy with the likes of Beck/Rush, etc... creating fear when they should be trying to bring us together as a nation to find solutions to our country's problems.

Saturday September 26, 2009, 7:51 am
Noted and thank you Marion for posting this article.

I said it many times in the bloggs that Beck ,Limbaught and the like on Fox were opening a can of worms with their race bating etc.
Did this happen because of them we probably will never know for sure but one thing I do know is that people with this kind of sick mindset don't need to be inspred to doing these insane acts and Fox Faux News is full of those who think it makes good ratings to say something racist or off the wall about Obama .
Maybe our tolerance of free speach has gone too far when it comes to Faux News chanels like Fox who should no better but cast good judgement aside for bigger ratings from their Republican audiance who eats up this garbage.

What you put out into the universe becomes manifested in real life ,,that is your thoughts and actions become reality .If you don't want hate , racism ,greed and corruption etc. then don't think it and don't act on these things .

Saturday September 26, 2009, 7:57 am
I appreciate all the great comments here. Each of you offers a piece of the puzzle, not as to what happened to the victim, but what may have caused his death and the greater implication of ignorance and fears of an electorate held captive to the lies fed them 24/7 by the powers that control their lives.

Panda: Yes, people are getting played, big time. Growing up with a parent who had a 3rd grade education, I believed everything told to me until I went to college and learned how to discern, do research and gather information from all viewpoints. I would really like to know the education level of the people who believe the garbage of the Glenn Becks out there. I would imagine those with an education level higher than 12th grade are part of the status quo and want to keep the lies going. As a former teacher, I am fully aware that many schools give high school diplomas just to get the kids out of school, although they are not competent to hold that degree. As you said...Uneducated, at the bottom of the ladder, loaded with weapons and scared to death...these people are a danger to society and themselves.

James: I love your example. Some people will learn you (James L) don't just talk or write to fill the air. You just addressed the Glenn Beck School of Logic. Beck will be learning soon too that you cannot say anything about anyone, as well as incite violence, without consequences. This goes back to what Panda was saying about the uneducated minds listening to Beck. Beck is a clown, not a journalist, and he doesn't do his homework...and neither do his viewers. Hmmm....

Rod: Dueling would be nice if people could be trusted not to cast the first blow before the count down is finished. With a dishonest populace, I'm afraid this would not work today. I agree, most bullies cower away when challenged.

Robert: You raise an excellent point about Scarborough and other republicans who see the danger in Beck and are distancing themselves from him. They are no better than he is because they could have stopped this mess early on when we all recognized the danger in Beck's message. Incidentally, it's rumored that Scarborough may be running as the republican presidential candidate for 2012. He wants no part of the fringers, teabaggers, death panel, tenthers, birthers crowd if he is to have credibility. But we know he secretly backs Beck and his garbage.

Marty: Thanks for the links. Here in California, we have 84 hate groups operating. So this is not regional to the southern states only...it's across the USA. I guess Lincoln is turning over in his grave to see that we are well on our way to "divide and conquer" this nation. I had never seen his speech on this topic, so thanks again.

Many a mother in law has used the "divide and conquer" to prevent her son or daughter from getting married or staying married. This technique is part of the lizard brain in all of us. It's a selfish, destructive ploy to have whatever it is for ourselves, damn the happiness and well-being of others. When used by political parties and talking heads (Beck etal) on the ignorant populace, it is dangerous. When we are lied to, we have no choice in the matter. We are nothing more than slaves to a system that doesn't give a whit about our welfare.

As much as I don't respect Scarborough and the republicans who are distancing themselves from Beck, they are right to do so. And so should the masses of people who watch this dangerous little man try to destroy everything they value as he collects the gold he is given to preach his garbage.

Saturday September 26, 2009, 8:03 am
I agree that to say people in the south are racist and backward is not true .
I have lived in Va. twice in my life and never found the people there racist or backward.
There are some hill people everywhere not just the south,who have dropped out of society so to speak and they have no love of the government who would kill a federal agent as soon as look at him .
Maybe this wasn't a racist act maybe it did have to do with drugs and someone thought he was an agent trying to nose around and later arrest them .Who knows but I do think that an investigation needs to be done to determine who did this and why .

Saturday September 26, 2009, 8:16 am
For a BRILLIANT article written by James L (Care2 member in this thread), I encourage you all to read:

Who Controls Fox News

Many thanks, James!

Saturday September 26, 2009, 8:18 am
Marion I wish I could say it was a lack of education that makes these people listen to Beck but I know from a personal perspective its not just the uneducated .
My sister is an RN and educated yet she will repeat all the garbage she hears of Fox Faux News as if it were truth . Why ? My guess is it can only be that as a Republican she thinks she has to follow those who most Republican's follow , Limbaugh, Beck , Ann Coulter and the like.Remember how the Rebulican party voted a straight party line vote for all of Bush's agenda well those followers in the Republican party have received that message that a good Republican follows and believes everything a Republican says therefore the reason that you could not reason with a Republican that Bush's agenda was messed up .

Saturday September 26, 2009, 8:34 am
Linda...I agree it is not only the uneducated who follow the garbage. Thanks for pointing this out. However, even with her education, she is still uneducated to the degree she does not know how to search for the truth. Her focus has been her career. She probably is an excellent nurse and devotes the majority of her time to her work and what time remains to her family. It is easy to follow a party line or listen to one voice when one's life is already full and hectic.

This is why I vote person, not party. We must teach people to do their homework and stay engaged in the process. We can no longer blindly check off for the party our grandparents, parents and we have voted for all through the years. We can no longer listen to the same talking heads and agree with everything they say. We must truly listen to their words and discern what is truth from the lies. We can only know the truth if we operate from truth ourselves.

Saturday September 26, 2009, 8:38 am
I wish to correct what I wrote about Never seeing racism in Va.
I actually did back in the early 60's when there were black and white bathrooms etc. and I once sat in the back of a bus in the Carolina's and was looked at oddly because blacks were suppose to sit at the back of the bus .So yes it did have a racism past ,but that did change later on and not all people were racist even back in the early 60's .What I am trying to say is not all southern people are racists.

Saturday September 26, 2009, 8:47 am
No Marion she knows how to do research she just choses to research those things said only by Republicans !

I did vote a straight ticket this time around but I generally vote for the person not the party .
I was so discusted with Republican's after the mess they made of our country I never wanted to see another Republican in any office period.

Would I vote for a Republican I kinda doubt it after 16 years of Bush's . I really would love to see a serious third party contender . Yes we have the Independent party but who ran from that party and how serious was the Independent party ? If we only have Democrats and Republican's to chose from then we will always have the problems we have in our government nothing will change we need a party for the people like they have in Canada ! That way our voice can really be heard .

Sorry didn't mean to get off topic.

Saturday September 26, 2009, 8:59 am
Linda...discussing the two-party system is relevant to this discussion. Politics is ripping this nation apart. I am sick and tired of the democrats, to a much lesser degree than the republicans. They cater to the lobbyists as well, and we no longer know who is truly working for the masses. Most of these politicians are wealthy beyond reason, and continue to fill their pockets with money that has no interest in our well-being.

I would have preferred Kucinich, McKinney or Nader in 2008, but knew the time was not right for them. However, I believe a green or independent will be ready in 2012, after Obama paves the way. Many Americans will see the benefits from government that cares about them, rather than corporations and the elites.

We are entering an Age of Enlightenment, after leaving the Dark Ages of Bush. Once the middle class has been reduced to the humbling position of being poor, we will wake up and seek the truth. We have been greedy, lazy, apathetic and uninvolved in government affairs for too long. We will demand accountability and responsibility from our leaders. Our children will demand more from us as well, as they see the legacy we have left them. We are all responsible for the mess we are in.

Thanks for your input, Linda. I value what you have to say.

Saturday September 26, 2009, 10:06 am
James L. what you are referring to is called slander or libel. However as the supreme court ruled in 1964 during NYT v. Sullivan, this would not apply to me if I was a public official. The court determined that in the case of a public official the First Amendment rights of free speech and expression outweigh the public official's rights. The court expanded this further in 1967 as it included not only public officials, but public figures as well.
If you look on other stories here you can easily find one that calles Bush a murderer. While he may be a murderer, he has not of course been charged with nor convicted of murder. But that doesn't matter because he was both a public official and a public figure and the poster's opinions are, as affirmed by the court, fully protected by the 1st Amendment.
So whatever Fox, CNN, The NY Times, or Rush say about public officials, including obviously the president, is protected by the constitution as long as they believe what is said to be true when they say them. Since it is nearly impossible to prove what someone believes, it sets a very high bar to prove libel involving something said about a public official.
So the difference is clear between protected 1st amendment speech and malice and that is why you don't see media outlets being sued right and left every day. The call to shut down media outlets is so obviously contrary to the protection provided by the constitution that it comes off sounding more uninformed than scary.

Saturday September 26, 2009, 10:28 am
I have noticed way to much of a rise in murders, animal abuse, etc.. I beleive people are reallllly angry.and as in normal pecking order.... the weak are getting hurt, for no real reason,EXCEPT the anger. I do not even think that a few of these people are even bad, but now its to late. the anger in the air is palpabel..... I for one am tired of all these things. anger........ It kills and hurts and maims, how many of our heroic soldiers are acting out.the gentleman , God rest his soul, got cuaght up in this anger.... to sad. and extremely sick.

Saturday September 26, 2009, 11:17 am
You cannot currently send a star to KRISTEN because you have done so within the last week. You certainly touched a chord Kristen! There's been so many lies especially by folks in high places, peoples lives being impacted in negative ways, that even, though it's NO excuse, good folks can and do lose their cool.. Being human can challenge the senses at times..

The shame is that when one of us lose our cool some "Dare" take it out on someone who did them no harm instead of screaming to the rafters or seeking some guidance to get beyond the anger some have with-in their being..

These ARE some sorry times! Many folks are beginning to act out there personal anger and frustration and, I fear, this is only the tip of the iceberg which should concern US all..

People are losing everything they worked years for in order to have some "Sense" of security, especially, as they age or should they have a sick family member and no where to turn..These times are not easy for those who feel that they are drowning in a sea of debt, losing everything, with no where to turn..

I believe that it will take compassionate support networks, much like Care2, less the fools that "Dare" antagonize those seeking some clarity, and a shoulder..to help those recover from the madness that's taken over their lives so they are better able to rise above the fray.

In 92 when I founded Dare To Dream it was because of people serving in the system forgetting those who suffered an injury or illness, treating them like food for the jackals..Way back then, 17 years ago, "The Hand Writing Was On The Wall" for things to come..

I cannot tell you how many folks would call the DTDN hotline the wee hours of the morning and be so desperate they were about to harm themselves or a member of their family or, do something more drastic to those who treated them like garbage. I was taught to believe and I do believe, You don't kick a person when they're down.

And these last years have and continue to take many a hard working folk into the pits of despair. "We" American's must find a way to be there for those who may need us at some point. And the fools, Drones, etc, getting off on being stumbling blocks here at Care2 or other areas of this society, had better wake up before they burn all bridges that lead to their recovery, should they need it...Thanks KRISTEN, you brought up a most profound point for many to ponder! I have always believed "When Dreams Die, So Goes Greatness"

It's time to turn nightmares into precious Dreams once again so all can enjoy the only life they have. The good folks at Care2 can do this because I have seen what the many "Brave Hearts" that dwell here..can do... "We" only pass this way once. Let's make it count!

Assume Nothing! Question Everything!

Peace and tolerance in the hearts of all,

Barbara

Saturday September 26, 2009, 11:59 am
Barbara
As you acknowledged Kristen I acknowledge you. Starting from a chord you say was touched you went on to play something special of your own which I must say gave me a Chris Mathews moment. Very well and sensitively written.

Saturday September 26, 2009, 12:30 pm
Thank Robert.

Saturday September 26, 2009, 2:08 pm
What led us to this moment...
Sometimes I forget to share things, thinking all might/must already be aware of them. Such is the case until now with this Lee Atwater link, on and how his rise and success through the use of a strategy of cynicism and personal attack tactics coupled with a unique approach to handling the press and his personal charm, changed the Republican approach to politics and worked for them like magic in the election of GHB with the personal destruction of Dukakis and right up to and through the two campaigns of the disastrous GWB who, with the help of Rove (an Atwater protege) rode the same tactics of the dirty tricks to his two improbable and disputed election successes. The horrific failure and overreach that is the Bush Legacy has as a by product had the effect of momentarily loosened the hold of, success of, this approach which appeals to the lesser angels of our nature or one could say the fearful, cruel, ignorant, bigoted, nationalist, pirate, cowboy/outlaw, in our national character.
I submit that its best to know ones enemy and in that spirit I offer this link with it numerous sub links as must see stuff to understand the Atwater/Rovian way of politics, why they work, and to whom they are meant to appeal.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/atwater/view/

Peace

Saturday September 26, 2009, 2:44 pm
you want to blame Republican's with this??? Figures.... Every think this has to do with Obama... The man wants his finger in everyone pie... Sorry Mary... can't send you a green star.... done so in a week....

Saturday September 26, 2009, 2:49 pm
COME ON EVERYONE.. EVEN I FIGURED THIS ONE OUT........ WE ARE SIMPLY DEBATING.. NO FIGHTS.. FUN AND DEBATES..

Saturday September 26, 2009, 3:07 pm
CHILL OUT REPUGGER. THATS MY FIGHT. NOT MARIONS. LEAVE HER ALONE...... ILL DEBATE W/YOU, BUT I AM SICK AND TIRED OF "FIGHTING' SHALL WE "TALK"

Saturday September 26, 2009, 3:18 pm
Oh okay blame Obama...that is really silly..and very narrow minded...He didnt go out there and hang this man. Others did this on thier own. No fault of any government just some damn sicko did this, and I hope justice finds him in the same position as this poor man so horribly massacred.

Big Gorilly Hugs

Saturday September 26, 2009, 3:32 pm
Scarlett P.
"Every think this has to do with Obama..."
Typo aside.. this is still so lame. When you say "has to do with Obama" to which I reply...uh,No. May we know what to you, passes for an analysis that might bring one such as yourself to "think" Obama somehow bears blame? do tell..pretty please.

Saturday September 26, 2009, 4:00 pm
WE HAVE BLAMED EVERY PREZ. BEFORE HIM... ITS HUMAN NATURE.,EVERYONE...... CALM DONE. DEBATE. NO FIGHTS. WHAT STARTED AS ATHING FOR A TERRIBLE THING HAPPENING, A MAN HUNG W/ OUT REAL REASON...... I FOR ONE AM SOOO EFFING SORRY. I FEEL FOR HIM IN WAS I NEVER THOUGHT POSSIBLE.. SO COME ON LETS DEBATE NOT FIGHT.

Saturday September 26, 2009, 4:19 pm
Marion - I agree that for whatever reason and however late Repugs who hold some sway are in doing the right thing in denouncing Beck and overt hate/fear/violence speech, it is still welcome. But must be done forcefully and be a denouncement of all carry this message of fear and hate, not just the Rodeo clown. Yes, I am talking Limbaugh and followers pushed again to the margins in my opinion to bring this to a halt for their party to continue to be relevant and for other less selfish reasons that may never occur to them. We can not wait, this can not wait all the time it took for McCarthy to be seen for who he was. To much damage to lives was done that time as people trembled and feared he might look in there direction. The USA payed a dear price for indulging that maniac and if this goes on we will all pay again, both together and individually for it, but perhaps in an even more profound way. The politics of personal destruction using slander to create fear and hate must be denounced and those who use it shunned so Beck and Limbaugh's names stand for something that we look back on that we are done with. Sadly we need a Republican with integrity and guts who will buck the nuts and there lies the rub. Just sayin.

Saturday September 26, 2009, 4:28 pm
Mark G

You point out that the supreme court has said this or that back in the good old days.

Have you ever stopped to think that the supreme court is a big part of the problem.

Did you know that the supreme court was never given the power to decide Constitutionality? Did you know that any jury can overthrow the supreme court?

If by chance Beck was taken to court. The defense can site all the supreme court rulings they want. In the end it's up to the jury to decide the case.

Thank God for the Constitution!!!

Saturday September 26, 2009, 4:41 pm
Who is excited?
WE HAVE BLAMED EVERY PREZ. BEFORE HIM... ITS HUMAN NATURE
Please speak for yourself. My human nature never had me blaming anyone blindly without evidence or reason. The Obama bait thrown out here by Scarlett is and should be called out as ridiculous. While this discussion addresses a sad issue it is still a discussion and some will disagree. I don't see any getting too crazy so relax yourself.

Saturday September 26, 2009, 4:44 pm
Robert

There are not enough stars for me to send.

Your last post hit the nail right on the head.

Putting Beck and all of the boys in the same sentence as McCarthy is brilliant. They are exactly the same and have the same type of agenda.

I lived in the state of Wisconsin for most of the fist 25yrs of my life. I know how embarrassed the people of Wisconsin were/are of that creep.

I should have thought of him myself. Maybe he was buried to deep in my shame. This is the way we should/will think of these people who today try to create the same atmosphere of fear and hate.

Thanks again for your comment.

James L.

Saturday September 26, 2009, 6:35 pm
I just had a great idea, thanks to Robert.

If we want to expose Beck and the boys at Fox. All we have to do is make a few commercials that show McCarthy and Beck on a split screen, spewing their hate speak.

This should put an end to the agenda of Fox News and all who would try and bring this country to it's knees.

I new there was a good reason for us to be running mates, Robert.

James L.

Saturday September 26, 2009, 7:29 pm
James since you never made it to history class, you might be interested to know that Joseph McCarthy was a US Senator who was elected to 2 terms. Glenn Beck, on the other hand is just a radio and TV commentator. Do you really think that a man was murdered in Clay County, Kentucky because of a talk show host?
Also it is interesting to note how you believe that a country that has survived numerous wars, including a civil one, and several financial collapses can be brought down by a few media personalities. You don't have a lot of faith in this country do you?
Myself, I don't think this country can be brought down by rednecks, idiots, TV hosts, crappy music, bad former presidents, and not even by presidents who are even worse than the ones we thought were terrible.

Saturday September 26, 2009, 9:22 pm
Mark;

It dose not take much intelligence to realize that the damage done by McCarthy with his limited exposure is nothing compared to the influence of a TV Network and it's 24/7 agenda. I can't help it if you are to moronic to see the dangers or the power of the individual. Anyone can change the way of history. If you want proof, why don't you examine our own history. The English thought as you do and we brought her to her Knees.

Saturday September 26, 2009, 11:58 pm
Mark, your so smart I'm just intimidated all to hell. It ain't pretty but I will just struggle along in spite of it.
"Anyone who can be incited to violence by a TV personality would be incited by ANYTHING. They would have to already be very sick."

No argument there you got me, but these are Fox viewers, wait a minute, and Bush voters…twice in many cases, uh oh. Were you around for JFK, Bobby, Martin,Reagan, Ford? Guys on TV didn’t tell um to do it, true enough, but Sick. We got plenty of sick.

Is a personality/person because he/she is on TV, less persuasive than if they were communicating by another means? While I agree that it would be sick to believe Becks ranting and be incited by them to violence, I don't believe him and so don't know what its like to be one who does believe him. It must be quite alarming for the sad imbeciles who do. I would guess that many are Bush voters who are after all not all that bright. The same geniuses that probably still think Iraq is the country responsible for 911, Obama is a moslem…yada, yada. You can bet some really believe this crap and are scared and angry. Fox promotes this fear and anger. Oh thats right you don't hear it.

“I watch Fox on occasion. Not all the time, but enough to be able to confidently say I have never heard any calls for violence whatsoever. NONE.”

Don’t be embarrassed. Lots of people watch it exclusively and it shows, as conflicting information upsets them. That would involve analysis and filtering.
No calls for violence eh? Did you think they were going to say lets go lynch him? Read between the lines smart guy.

“A difference of opinion in a free country is healthy and futhermore unquestionably protected by the 1st Amendment.”

Was it a difference of opinion that kept much of this country ignorant as to who attacked us on 911 so that Bush could finish his dads war? Really? Was the truth in dispute? Nope. Just not told.

We live in a country were we find one party which holds that if an actor ventures an opinion which is to the left, he is an airhead and should shut up and stay out of politics and if he is right wing he is Presidential material even if he has rarely read more than the Readers Digest throughout his life. We can deduce that this parties less affluent members sufferer under some mental impairment making them highly suggestible and impervious to irony or the fact of not being represented by those for whom they caste their votes.
Now if we can assume you are a Republican, "silent Majority", than we know the degree of delusion perhaps derangement or at least impairment in terms of critical thinking, is high as evidenced by a vote for Bush… twice. Therefore we have in you and in other Fox viewers a fairly wide group of those who fit quite neatly into the incited by ANYTHING crowd we are talking about here.

Sunday September 27, 2009, 3:26 am
I saw a couple comments on party lines. I think party lines CAN make people stupid as I have seen this many times. What I like to do is vote for who I think is the best no matter what the party. I was able to do that in 1984 and I voted for Mondale and ferraro. However in 2004 I voted democratic just to try to get Bush out of there. This last election I also voted democratic to keep McCain and Palin out of there although Obama did make more sense to me.

Normally I would probably vote Independent if we did not have to worry about keeping someone of of there, which is sad. I vote for whomever would be the most likely to uphold OUR Constitution as a rule. Kucinich made the most sense of all the candidates and he did qualify for debates on tv. However the big money did NOT want him on there and they told him he could not debate after all. At least he truly believes in what this country stands for!

Anywho, it's too bad so many people think they should have to stick to party lines because maybe another party would be elected and we could take some of that power away from the republicans and democrats!

Sunday September 27, 2009, 8:28 am
Personally I think its a sad state of affairs that anyone would even try to condone or make excuses for the likes of Beck,Limbaugh or anyone else who would use the airways to promote lies, racism, hate and violence .
Where are morals and values here ? This is not a joke folks there is nothing to laugh at when some sick person listens to Rush or watches Beck spewing their hate and then they go out and act on that because now after hearing these people they feel justified in their actions.
When do we take responsiblity for what we say and do and its effects on us and others or even our planet (Karma)?

I am soon to be 65 years all and in all my life I have never seen such horrible behavior as I have seen in the primaries with all the hate,racism and lies that I saw from political figures as well as their followers and so called news commentators on Fox .Watching one of Palins political speaches was like watching someone inciting a riot . It looked like a bar room brawl out there ,,no wait it surpassed a bar room brawl with the personal attacks on Obama .
When did people forget their manners ,civility ?
When did winning at any cost become the standard in the Republican party ?
If I am blaming the Republican party it is because that is where the majority of the lies and slander came from .

I agree Marty about voting for the person and not the party ,but do you know the fear behind people voting for the party especially after 8 years of Bush and the mess this country is in ? Getting the worst of the two parties and another Bush if the person you like doesn't do well in the votes !
Time has made us weary . Watching good people like Kucinich and a few others fall by the wayside because media blacked them out and nobody thought he could win so they voted for someone else . I admit I voted for Kucinich in the Primary and changed my vote to Obama in the National because I saw Kucinich was way behind in the primaries .
So maybe if everyone jumped on the bandwagon in the primaries and voted for the person they actually think would do the best job then others would see it is possible to get the person we think is better no matter what party he is in and not feel they have to vote either Rep or Dem.
BTW I am not suggesting Obama was the lesser of two evils ,"I did like him as much as Kucinich ,I think their both genuinely good men ,only I liked Kucinich's platform better .

Sunday September 27, 2009, 9:09 am
Thank you ALL for your passionate comments. This has been educational, with some historical and political information I was not aware of.

Kristen: There does seem to be more anger and a rise in murders these days. I said "seem" because I have read murders are actually down across the nation. I think the media tends to sensationalize murders and place them more in focus at the top of their news. As society grows in numbers and becomes more sophisticated, murders will take on different methods to elude discovery. From the mid-30s to 60s the crime rate droppedsignificantly. Could it be the New Deal programs under FDR of social security and strong business regulations gave men (primary breadwinners of that time) jobs and the ability to provide for their families during those years? After the assassination of JFK, the fix was in to dismantle these programs and rape Americans of anything they had left.

> This murder is different: The murderer WANTED the victim to be discovered in this gruesome fashion, and wanted a particular message sent to the public across the nation.

A couple of notes about this crime:

> The crime was not reported for an entire week by the authorities. Who is responsible for keeping this case under wraps for over a week?

Whatever the reason, This is clearly an act of terrorism. And I've always suspected that the fear and hatred in this nation would turn on itself and do what no outside terrorist could ever do to us.


Robert S: Thanks for that synopsis on Atwater and the link. He was described as devious, manipulative, driven, a gamer. As Howard Fineman said, "he used his own cynicism to anesthetize people to what was going on." Sounds eerily like the Fox News people to me.

I won't hold my breath for a republican with integrity to forcefully denounce Beck etal. Congress may have to step in, and the FCC definitely needs to do something about this.

I wholeheartedly agree with the McCarthy association and echo James' comment that it is "brilliant!" For those unfamiliar with the man, here's a link that describes McCarthyism that tells of his tactics that gripped this nation and rippled throughout society. Many entertainers and talented, innocent people were blacklisted for speaking out against corruption, jailed and lost their jobs because of these tactics.


James L: Great idea of a commercial linking Beck to McCarthy. Yes, you and Robert are a good team!


Toby: You have made some sound, logical comments. Why are you even dignifying Mark's comments? He simply doesn't make sense, like his mentor...Glenn Beck.


Marty: I don't vote party line either. Kudos to you for being a THINKING person!


Linda: Your comment says it all. A country that lacks morals, values and civility is doomed. But I think the ugliness we see today has to happen in order to shock us into reality. We all need to know how diseased this nation is in order to seriously remedy the problem. When faced with a challenge, Americans are good at fixing the problem. The problem we face right now is critical to the survival of this nation: collapsed economy, warring nation (inside and out), bigotry and hate. We have just about hit rock bottom like an alcoholic about to go over the edge with a diseased liver. This is an opportunity for all of us to look within and see what we can change within us before we point fingers in all directions.

Ask ourselves: Am I truly honest with myself, my family and others? Where do I cut corners on morality, and what do I value? What am I teaching my children...hate or love, fear or courage, honesty or deception? We criticize our leaders, but they are merely following our cue. They are giving us what we are asking for. To fix this nation, it begins with each of us in our own homes and lives. It branches out to our children, neighbors, city, state and nation.

We will turn this around because none of us likes what we see going on. I hope we do it before it's too late.

Sunday September 27, 2009, 9:28 am
Marion this is so true !
Ask ourselves: Am I truly honest with myself, my family and others? Where do I cut corners on morality, and what do I value? What am I teaching my children...hate or love, fear or courage, honesty or deception? We criticize our leaders, but they are merely following our cue. They are giving us what we are asking for. To fix this nation, it begins with each of us in our own homes and lives. It branches out to our children, neighbors, city, state and nation.

We will turn this around because none of us likes what we see going on. I hope we do it before it's too late.

Sunday September 27, 2009, 10:30 am
MARION VERY GOOD!!! THANK YOU FOR POINTING MANY THINGS OUT. I wish to say one thing though when i spoke of murder and abuse, I was refering more to all the horrible crimes to animals,AS Ive qouted before, When you look into the abbys.. remember it is looking back.
Linda all youve said is so true , thank you for your wonderful input.

Sunday September 27, 2009, 1:19 pm
It seems the thread has digressed to a discussion of political science or the evolution of politics in the U.S.

An over view of the trends before we were born to today may serve to see needs versus traditions and politics stuck in the mud of the past. In the past two thousand years, we have gone from sheep herders to nation states ruled by absolute rulers who sent their armies around the known world and colonized different lands for Egypt, then Greece, and then Rome. I don't really see much difference between today and then.

The relationship between the rich and poor is the same, meaning money is king. The relationship between politics and power and wealth is the same, but we discuss things with Gandhi or echos of the Magna Carta in mind and stretch our imagination to see how today's government in the U.S. has anything to do with our Constitution. Corporate America runs things openly and dominates our media, dictates where we send our military, takes down the World Trade Towers and blames the pawns flying the planes, and 90% of Americans buy it as the truth.

We are fragmented by our bad educations, racism, religions, and materialism that keeps us enslaved to banks, drugs, and our pleasure bubble lifestyles. We don't have direction because we don't understand the problems and deny global warming, exploding world populations, and that god does not exist. We are an immature species that has challenges that would task even an advanced species or one that has overcome war, religions, and population expansion to the point that our own activities are threatening us with extinction.

That said, from feudalism and it's kings to rudimentary representative government that, at least on the surface represents the masses living under government rule, we have a continuum that can be identified. At one end is Feudalism or one man is the absolute ruler and at the other end is Communism or there are no rulers and corruption ends up controlling the infrastructure. So, how do we manage to govern ourselves without absolute power or absolute corruption? Today's Corporate America is the equivalent of collective feudalism and corruption rolled into one.

I think we have to break from the past and see the greed and avarice of Capitalism is a real threat to world peace and prosperity, as were kingdoms. We need to allow small level capitalists in the form of business to make computer chips and electric cars, but they should not run our energy grids, or fuel supply, and certainly have NOTHING TO DO WITH OUR GOVERNMENT ! We need a healthy view of freedom safe guarded by our Constitution that is reinvigorated to define Separation of Church and States to mean Separation of Corporate and State and enforce both. No more "in god we trust" on our money or "under god" in schools, and MOST importantly no business lobbies or lobbies of any kind in our government. We need to hold our "representatives" accountable to us the people.

We need to vote using a new election system where we can check how our vote was counted and count the totals used that determined the election. We need to make the secret ballot a crime so those who want to buy or sell votes are the criminals, not people who want to check how their vote was counted to make sure it was cast correctly, like checking your bank account balance.

Lots of things have to be reversed from the current trend of Corporate Feudalism and we need to turn toward a corruption controlled through our Constitutional Laws a more socialist and people centered government. We can only move toward humanism if we focus on the corruption and millions of human lives lost, our threat to our own planet from oil profits driving our auto industry and coal fired power plants and stop the madness.

One World

Peace

Sunday September 27, 2009, 2:30 pm
history will repeat its self if we do not learn from it, as they no longer have HISTOR taught in our schools, we have to keep learning on our own.

Sunday September 27, 2009, 4:31 pm
Casey...OUTSTANDING comment!!! Regardless of how or why this man died, the political implications in the US cannot be avoided. Your main points stand out:

Money is king...corporations and elites run America and masses have bought the lies...and the most damning of all:

"We are fragmented by our bad educations, racism, religions, and materialism that keeps us enslaved to banks, drugs, and our pleasure bubble lifestyles. We don't have direction because we don't understand the problems and deny global warming, exploding world populations, and that god does not exist. We are an immature species that has challenges that would task even an advanced species or one that has overcome war, religions, and population expansion to the point that our own activities are threatening us with extinction."

You raise an excellent argument to dismantle our corrupt system and I agree with your suggestions. Capitalism (in its current form) and greed must end. One suggestion I have is that our leaders are not paid. Rather, they are rotating leaders from each state (still unpaid) who represent the the voice of their people. These rotating leaders start at the city level, move to the state level, then to the federal level...much like Native American tribes made decisions many years ago. Without the incentive of money (which means no lobbyists and cronyism allowed), everyone is more apt to answer to their constituents, rather than outside interests.

To carry this form of government further, each city would require all voters to participate in the process. The most competent speakers and leaders would be selected (and required) to represent their people on the city, state and federal levels.

I also believe education should be provided to every citizen and no or minimal cost...as should health care.

Somehow, we must wrest control of this nation from the corporations and elites...and give it back to the people.

Sunday September 27, 2009, 4:50 pm
Speaking of education, because the masses seem to be hypnotized by the likes of Glenn Beck, Limbaugh and others, I looked up the education level of these talking heads:

Glenn Beck - high school graduate. He took one class in college and dropped out. Beck has even referred to himself as an entertainer, a commentator rather than a reporter, a rodeo clown. Why would anyone value his opinions as factual and newsworthy?

Sean Hannity, high school graduate, college dropout

Rush Limbaugh -high school graduate, college drop out

Rachel Maddow - Rhodes Scholar, Doctorate in Philosophy from University at Oxford

Keith Olbermann - Bachelor of Science in Comm Arts at Cornell University

Ed Schultz - Graduate of Minnesota State University, Moorhead

While this comment in no way is a put-down toward those who lack a higher education, it does say there is an inability to understand the importance of research and journalistic integrity when viewing talking heads. For this reason, it is the responsibility of network heads and the FCC to require certain criteria for these talking heads before they get before the masses to spew their lies and garbage. They must be required to back up their claims and correct their mistakes. Too many mistakes and they should be replaced. We can see the damage to society as a result of the misinformation.

Would you rather sample an untested medication from a learned scientist...or a high school graduate?

Sunday September 27, 2009, 4:59 pm
ONCE AGAIN MARION.. YOU'VE BROUGHT MORE TRUTH TO LIGHT. i AM NOT SAYING i AM SOOO SMART, BUT i AM CERTAINLY NOT STUPID. AND TO ME, YOU ARE SUPER STAR MATERIAL.. LOVE YOU HONEY!!
~kRISTEN

Monday September 28, 2009, 3:35 am
Marion, your comment about pleasure bubble existance and wresting the country back from the grip of business and corporations etc, was a splendid sermon! Are you sure your you not on the payroll of Billy Graham?lol Certainly, with no put down intended, there are a lot of "peerformers" on our tv screens that add nothing of import to life. I left the typo as it is strangely appropriate to our celeb empty head, must have it now existance. By the way folks has this thread not gone way off topic!

Monday September 28, 2009, 7:13 am
Kristen...Thank you. I'm glad you are getting something out of this thread. I am too.

Chris...I can only take half credit. Casey made the comment about pleasure bubble existence. Thank you for the other credit. :) Yes, we are off topic and have several topics going on here as we wait for the results of the autopsy report.

I'm known for getting on my platform now and then. It comes from my background as a 1) mother, 2) community work (turning around apathetic communities), and 3) college instructor.

Monday September 28, 2009, 7:20 am

Bachmann Refuses To Answer Question About Dead Census Worker

"Bachmann, who has proclaimed that she will not fill out her Census forms and suggested that the survey could lead to internment camps, did not bring up the issue at the conservative How to Take Back America Conference in St. Louis.

David Weigel asked her about it but could not get an answer:

' I caught up to her as she headed outside and asked if she had any response to the murder of a Kentucky census worker, having noticed that the Census, a constant target for Bachmann, did not figure into her speech. Bachmann recoiled a little at the question and turned to enter her limo.' "

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I find it interesting that Bachmann ran her mouth about not filling out the census form, but cannot muster up the strength to give even a condolence to the family of the victim. She is so frightened of a possible liability in this case that she has lost any sense of humanity about this issue. The guilt is obvious.

Monday September 28, 2009, 7:33 am

Census workers ‘shocked’ by death

"The death of a census worker under suspicious circumstances in Kentucky earlier this month has sent a chill through the U.S. Census Bureau and those who depend on it for accurate demographic information about the country."

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Mission accomplished.

Monday September 28, 2009, 9:24 am
And I would say very good! Thank you Marion.

Monday September 28, 2009, 2:54 pm
I AM NOT SURE WHY CASEY IS SUCH A..... WELL, I GUESS WHAT I MEAN IS DEBATING IS GOOD, MEANESS, STINKS..

Monday September 28, 2009, 4:00 pm
Marion, your comment, expanding on Casey's comment about pleasure bubble existence and wresting the country back from the grip of business and corporations etc, was splendid as per usual. Good on both of you.