Friday October 2, 2009, 7:41 am
Michael Moore's CAPITALISM: A LOVE STORY comes home to the issue he's been examining throughout his career: the disastrous impact of corporate dominance on the everyday lives of Americans (and by default, the rest of the world). But this time the culprit is much bigger than General Motors, and the crime scene far wider than Flint, Michigan. From Middle America, to the halls of power in Washington, to the global financial epicenter in Manhattan, Michael Moore will once again take filmgoers into uncharted territory.

With both humor and outrage, Moore's movie explores a taboo question: What is the price that America pays for its love of capitalism? Years ago, that love seemed innocent. Today, however, the American dream is looking more like a nightmare as families pay the price with the jobs, their homes and their savings. Moore takes us into the homes of ordinary people whose lives have been turned upside down; and he goes looking for explanations in Washington, DC and elsewhere. What he finds are the all-too-familiar symptoms of a love affair gone astray: lies, abuse, betrayal...and 14,000 jobs being lost every day.

Moore's movie is both a culmination of his previous works and a look into what a more hopeful future could look like. It is Moore's ultimate quest to answer the question he's posed throughout his filmmaking career: Who are we and why do we behave the way we do?

Friday October 2, 2009, 7:42 am
Please don't feed popcorn to the trolls that may show up in this thread. It gives them gas and enlarges their ego.

Friday October 2, 2009, 7:44 am
Thannxxx Marion... This love affair can only end up in divorce... and we know who will get the better part of the settlement don't we just

Friday October 2, 2009, 7:51 am
Thanks Marion, it will be a while before it comes to a theater in my area, but I'll be there...........

Friday October 2, 2009, 8:10 am
This is a movie I would like to see if it wouldnt line the pockets of Moore. I dont like him - never have...he makes my skin crawl. Maybe when it comes out on video and I can rent it for free I'll watch it.

Michael Moore recently stated that he had to beg, borrow and steal to make this movie and others YET he is a multi millionare so what did he need to beg, borrow and steal to make this movie?

Friday October 2, 2009, 8:13 am
BigCatRescue...I will be looking for interviews on Moore and posting them here, so stay tuned.

Friday October 2, 2009, 8:16 am

Yes, this is one film I will make a point to see (and I'm usually one of those who will wait til it comes out on cable -- LOL)!

Friday October 2, 2009, 8:27 am
I don't think it is in my area yet it might be have to check. We live in a small town mostly republicans I don't know if that makes any difference or not but you never know. LOL! Thanks Marion I do wnat to see it too.

Friday October 2, 2009, 8:33 am
Unfortunately this movie is not being shown in this area at this time so I'll have to wait....Regardless of one's viewpoint on the subject I'm sure it didn't have an financial backing from the finacial prostitutes of wall street who took our money without giving any service

Friday October 2, 2009, 8:35 am
Tierney...There may be theaters showing this within 40 miles of you. Check out this link.

Friday October 2, 2009, 8:40 am
Tavis Smiley interviewed Moore the other night. My notes below outline that interview since that segment is not available.

* Price we pay for this corrupt system...there is another foreclosure in America EVERY 8 seconds
* Richest 1% have more wealth than the bottom combined 99% of us
* Outrageous poverty rates, school drop out rates
* 40 million functional illiterates who can't read or write above 4th grade level
* Rich have taken over our pensions
* Americans don't know if they'll have a job in 6 months.

How did this happen?

* We allowed the people with the money to control our country...both parties are responsible for letting this happen
* In the 1980s, Reagan's "trickle down" theory - people believed they would actually benefit from this
* We used to get school loans at 1% from financial aid offices. Reagan stopped that by putting school loans in the hands of the banks so we'd be in hock to the banks for 20 years or so.
* Americans used to make money because they worked hard, created something. But we now have legalized greed where the 1% have taken our pension funds and played with that money (derivatives and other exotic terms). McCain and Republicans wanted to play with social security and medicare funds as well. They have crushed our funds for the last 10 years.
* This is an immoral and wrong system for only the 1% to get everything from the rest of us.

Oversight?

* Is somebody asleep at the wheel? Actually, the 1% have taken the wheels off. This vehicle is running wild over the cliff.
* This deregulation began during the Reagan and Clinton Administrations. Bush got rid of the rest of the oversight and went hog wild.
* We need restrictions in place to have oversight of the greedy. Greed is part of human nature and must be kept in check.
* Lack of oversight legalizes greed. In their greed, 1% truly believes they are entitled to it all.
* People who make money legitimately can't even borrow money to start a business.

Leadership

* Summers, Geitner etal were instrumental in getting us in this mess. Hope Obama sees that those who created this mess know how to clean it up. This is why banks usually hire thieves for advice.
* We went through the worst 8 years imaginable. Obama inherited a catastrophe. Wouldn't wish this mess on any leader.
* In the campaign, Wall Street gave their money to McCain until they saw Obama winning. Then they turned around and gave their money to Obama. Moore still sides with Obama and thinks Obama will side with the people, not Wall Street.
* People who are screaming at Obama already have health care.
* If Summers and Geitner haven't turned the economy around in 1 year, Moore will be calling Obama out on this harder than ever, but at this point, he supports Obama.
* With all the millions of people who voted for and support Obama, if he let's these people down, America will be in a grave mess.
* Obama is still in charge...not his circle of advisors around him.
* In his heart of hearts, he is going left if you look at his background and activities. This is why the right is fighting him so hard. Obama's instincts are right...and in the right place.
* He has to be FDR...to hell with bipartisanship...has to fight for the people...must tell Summers and Geitner he will not enrich their friends.

Moore says he represents the people. He recognizes that no one is speaking up for the people in an effective way. He hasn't heard anyone say "Capitalism is NOT a democratic or moral system." He also says there is something evil about this system of capitalism. The people have no say in it...and that is not a democracy.

What can you do?

SIGN the Healthcare not Warfare Petition

SIGN asking your representatives to support HR 676

SPREAD THE WORD...Capitalism Did This

Friday October 2, 2009, 8:44 am
I tried to note your article marion but it didn't work :(

Well thank you for the article I will see when it is playing here .

Friday October 2, 2009, 8:47 am
Thank you, Linda. Your note worked. System is slow today.

Friday October 2, 2009, 8:48 am
Thanks Marion. What I have seen in my adult ife is that the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer. Now the middle class is turning into the working poor. What I don't understand is the poor and middle class who defend the right of these CEOs to make those billions of dollars- "they work hard, they have earned it". They don't realize how demeaning it is to themselves. They work hard too.

Friday October 2, 2009, 9:09 am
Nancy...It speaks to how indoctrinated these people are believing their messengers (media) and advertising that has fed tons of money for their agenda to mislead Americans so they can continue to pocket money that would otherwise go to the people. Many older people, which includes me, have retired and live on pensions, social security and medicare. While life is not exactly rosy for us, we DO have a set income and health care. Most of us don't have to worry about jobs. So, why should this large segment of the population that are pretty much secure complain about changing the system that has rewarded them?

They should do it for their children, grandchildren and America.

I have no problem with people earning money for something they produce or create. That is what this country and capitalism was based on. No longer is that system working this way. What do we create or produce? Where are the jobs? Where are new businesses being formed that create these jobs? What voice do the people have in this corrupt, broken system?

I do have a problem with people capitalizing by manipulating money on Wall Street using derivatives and exotic options that are nothing but paper transferred to paper and betting on that. This pyramid scheme was bound to collapse, and the people have suffered...not Wall Street.

Friday October 2, 2009, 9:12 am
Sending a Green Star is a simple way to say "Thank you"
You cannot currently send a star to Ch because you have done so within the last week.

I agree CH.
These days those against Capitalism are the very ones who have made Millions,even Billions off of Capitalism.
You can't get anymore Ironic then that.
I LOVED Micheal Moore back in the day.
His movie "Bowling for Columbine" was an hinesty look at great many issues on what happened that day.
Too bad he sold out.
Sad really.

Friday October 2, 2009, 9:15 am
"These days those against Capitalism are the very ones who have made Millions,even Billions off of Capitalism. " Lady

Hmm, I see ONE person getting rich off capitalism by exploiting it. That is of course, Micahel Moore himself. And I do find it odd that he had to "beg, borrow and steal to make this movie".

Friday October 2, 2009, 9:19 am
Michael Moore DESERVES to make money from this movie. He has PRODUCED/CREATED a product, selling it for a FAIR price, giving VALUABLE information to the masses and is working within the criteria for a capitalistic society that works. The argument from the trolls doesn't hold water or wit.

Folks, please don't feed the trolls. Popcorn is expensive these days.

Friday October 2, 2009, 9:23 am
I can't afford to buy popcorn to feed my own family. It seems that some loving capitalist took it all.

Friday October 2, 2009, 9:30 am
Barry...I don't buy popcorn either, lol. We have a theater that charges $5 for movies all day. I typically take my own food. Rarely do I go to the theater anyway, but will go to see this one. I believe if enough of the masses become aware of our broken system and who runs this country and why we're in this mess by seeing this movie, they will get off their sofas and help change the system.

Friday October 2, 2009, 9:34 am
Wow, it would open up when I am going to be out of the country. Well, I will just have to buy the DVD and make my own popcorn. Thanks, Marion for the news.

Friday October 2, 2009, 9:40 am
Michael Moore is an Angel on Earth. He doesn't HAVE to be doing this. He does it because he loves this country and it hurts him to see his fellow Americans being the victims of the crime of the century. The man is braver than most and has such a big heart. We love you Michael.If you want to stop making documentaries to make a romantic comedy, that's good too. You have to do what you want as that ensures the end result is the best it can be. Thank you to Michael for offering to campaign for new dems next year to challenge the blue dogs that are not supporting their constituents. :)

Friday October 2, 2009, 9:53 am
Dragonfly Kid...You said it well and expressed what is in my heart for Michael. Although he is not a college grad, he studied in a seminary and speaks to his spirituality and desire to help others. He is a true humanitarian and is an example for all of us. Thank you for your kind and thoughtful post!

Friday October 2, 2009, 9:54 am
Marion ~ " The argument from the trolls doesn't hold water or wit."

It's not called trolling ,it's called giving your opinion on the issue.
If you did not want any one elses opinion other then that of people who agree with you,then you should NOT have posted it on a site that has such a wide diversity of people from different ideologies and ideas.
Trolling is when you start harassing people for NO reason with no real imput on an issue.

If you don't like the opposing comments to your post then ignore them.

Friday October 2, 2009, 10:10 am
I just love Michael Moore! I, too, will be buying a ticket to the movies. He has guts in abundance. Thanks, Marion!

Friday October 2, 2009, 10:16 am
WalletPop does an excellent review of Moore's movie

[clippets from article]

Right now, Moore implies, our way of doing business is hardly Christian. It's abject Darwinism. This may be the most revolutionary point of the film....Human stories aside, Moore also produces the kind of paper trail to satisfy readers of Naomi Klein, Greg Palast, or John Pilger. He isn't so much a conspiracy theorist as a sunshine man who casts light on areas previously unknown to the masses. Midway through, he reveals an internal memo from Citibank that celebrates the American aristocracy while confessing that the only thing standing in the way of the richest 1% amassing even more money is the potential ire of the rest of us, who are left with less and less each year...It is a document that shows the rich of this country are privately quaking at the prospect of revolution, and it gives Moore an engine, and a mandate, for the second half of the film: Wake up the peasants...If you judge at it from afar, you realize the movie isn't really a screed against capitalism, although Moore's foes will gleefully accuse it of being one. It's an attack on greed, which, Moore and many in the film say, is the fatal flaw of capitalism.

Friday October 2, 2009, 10:18 am
looking forward to watching,. Because it is Not capitalism itself, but GREED.

And don't even get me started on Citibank.

Friday October 2, 2009, 10:43 am
You cannot currently send a star to Marion because you have done so within the last week.

Friday October 2, 2009, 10:43 am
Personally, I think he should team up with Al Gore to Make 'HUNGER' their next movie.

I've known capitalism wasn't working for AGES, but as Sir Winston Churchill said: "Unless we come up with a better system, it's the BEST we've got." [roughly quoted].

So I will go and see if 'Detroit-City Mike' has any alternatives to offer....

Thanks, Marion!...[Namaste xo]

Friday October 2, 2009, 10:47 am
Janet...Good suggestion on 'hunger' as his next topic and movie. You might send him that message.

Friday October 2, 2009, 10:49 am
Yeah, I like the idea of hunger.

Friday October 2, 2009, 10:58 am
Adam Smith warned it had to be tempered with 'Christian Compassion'---otherwise it would turn out EXACTLY as it has.

And ol' Karl Marx basically wrote his Communist Manfesto as a rebuttal to the injustices he saw in Capitalism [okok--while he starved his own wife and kids]--so hopefully, the new age of mechanised/computerised society will be able to give an option that is NOT Communism,OR Capitalism, or Dictatorship, or Oligarchy---it's a new GLOBALLLY interdependent world--and we need new tools and systems to deal with it.

Namaste! xo

Friday October 2, 2009, 11:10 am
Janet...Smith was right. Moore doesn't disappoint and addresses this in his movie, per WalletPop's review:

"For me, one of the most fascinating segments of the movie was the segment examining the connection between Christianity and capitalism. There isn't one, Moore says, and to back up his case, he talks to three clergymen in Michigan, all the way up the bishop, who agree that capitalism, by definition, is evil and does not at all line up with the teachings of Jesus Christ.

"It's boat-rocking stuff, but it's nothing that hasn't been espoused for years by a small but vocal minority of Christians, including the Christian Socialist Party. Jesus was not a capitalist, everyone in the film seems to be saying. So any effort to link a belief in God with a defense of America's capitalism system is at best specious and at worst manipulated propaganda."

I like your excellent statement:

"...so hopefully, the new age of mechanised/computerised society will be able to give an option that is NOT Communism,OR Capitalism, or Dictatorship, or Oligarchy---it's a new GLOBALLLY interdependent world--and we need new tools and systems to deal with it."

Indeed, it's time for a new "ism" that works!

Friday October 2, 2009, 11:40 am
The problem is not with capitalism itself (damn you, Karl Marx), but the corporatist perversion of it that dominates America's economy and has for over a century. There's nothing wrong with making money off a chosen profession, like Michael Moore and many successful businesses do. The problem is giant corporations taking unfair advantage of the free enterprise system to perpetuate themselves and their absolute dominance of the economy, and even getting the government to help them!

Friday October 2, 2009, 11:41 am
Nancy...As Bill Maher says, it's "ShittyBank, not Citibank"... :)

Friday October 2, 2009, 11:52 am
Michael MOORE HAS BEEN A FAVORITE OF MINE SINCE HIS TV DAYS. Ive got EVERYTHING he's done.Can not wait to see this. I know how people are not always happy w/ the way he presents things, but sometimes, we need it put directly in our face.. i love him...and not embaressed to say so, my child's grandfather tried to get me to stand up and get rid of people like him, we were celebrating my girls graduation, she actually stood up and quoted the entire page of questions for our congress from the book "Stupid White Men" her dad jumped up and cheered, but her grandfather, got up and left the table... makes one think he has 2 ba's in history(no longer tuaght) and could not answer one question, not a one....GO WHITNEEEEEE

Friday October 2, 2009, 12:04 pm

This is a new film coming out soon titled: "The End Of Poverty?"

This film is very related to "Capitalism: A Love Story

and this is as close you can get on the topic of "hunger".

Official Selection at 25+ International Film Festivals in 2008 & 2009.

With so much wealth in the world, why is there still so much poverty?

Poverty is not an accident.

Poverty is not an accident. 1492 marks the birth of modern times when the conquistadors violently extracted gold and other natural resources. Since then, our economic system has been financed by the poor by forcing them to give up their land and access to natural resources, then through unfair trade, debt repayment and unjust taxes on labor and consumption. This system was carefully built and maintained by the free market policies, resource monopolies and structural adjustment programs by the World Bank and the IMF.
Genre:Documentary
Director:Philippe Diaz

LINK:

http://www.apple.com/trailers/independent/theendofpoverty/

Official Site LINK:

http://www.theendofpoverty.com/

A Georgist Perspective | On The Film "The End Of Poverty?" LINK:

http://povertythinkagain.com/

AND

http://povertythinkagain.com/files/about-the-film-the-end-of-poverty-a-word-from-our-sponsor/

TY, Marion.
.

Friday October 2, 2009, 12:19 pm
Jim...I'm on my way to see Moore's movie right now. I can't wait to return home and read through your information and links. You, my friend, have gone to the core of our problem. Thank you.

Friday October 2, 2009, 12:28 pm
TY Jim for the links.

The end of poverty trailer

the end of poverty.com

poverty think again

about the film the end of poverty

Friday October 2, 2009, 12:29 pm
http://www.nypost.com/p/pagesix/union_teaches_moore_lesson_sCK9AXSEsqhAtwpyoUkv5K

Friday October 2, 2009, 12:36 pm
I'm in Germany through the end of the month. But a definite must-see when I return. Thanks for the heads-up, Marion.

Best Regards,

Cindy (JD)

Friday October 2, 2009, 12:37 pm
I love that the bloggoshpere is alive with all this chatter claiming the movie is an indictment of people profiting from their labor, when it actually is an indictment of the institutions that make money of OUR labor.

I guess the Tea Party and Glenn Beck Project are scared it will take away their fire, since it's basically a populist take on the anti-bailout, anti-banks, anti-AIG sentiment in this country.

They better pray they dont go see it, since they may actually AGREE...

Friday October 2, 2009, 12:51 pm
DID ANYONE ACTUALLY LOOK AT THE SO CALLED COVER NE SET UP FOR NEW YORK TIMES, ONE STORY IS ABOUT NOT BEING A MOM, AND A LOAD OF OTHER REALLY FUNNY THINGS, I SUGGEST FOR A REALLY GOOD LUAGH YOU ACTUALLY LOOK THEN REALIZE THE DEAL ON MY HERO MIKE MOORE, hehehehehe, sorry got no popcorn ....

Friday October 2, 2009, 12:57 pm

Well, Kristen, you prove a good point:

"Wise men don't need advice. Fools won't take it."
--Benjamin Franklin

Friday October 2, 2009, 1:12 pm
"Michael Moore is an Angel on Earth. He doesn't HAVE to be doing this. He does it because he loves this country and it hurts him to see his fellow Americans being the victims of the crime of the century"

Im sorry but I would have to say Michael Moore does not love his Country - he hates it right now and his movies prove it - he does what he does b/c it makes him rich.

Friday October 2, 2009, 1:14 pm

Perhaps, he does it because he wants this country to WAKE UP and be what it has the potential to be!

Must EVERY good deed be punished?

Friday October 2, 2009, 1:38 pm
You got it CH Hardy.

Friday October 2, 2009, 1:47 pm
I think it’s fairly safe to assume he won’t be grilling Barney Frank, Maxine Waters, Franklin Raines, Chris Dodd, Bill Clinton, or ACORN over their roles in creating the mess we are in now.

Go ahead and let me know after you see the movie. Surprise me.

Friday October 2, 2009, 1:53 pm

Better yet, NE . . .

Why don't YOU surprise US by opening up your own mind to viewing the film? Since you HAVEN'T viewed it, what is "fairly safe" about making assumptions without proof? IMO that is "fairly DANGEROUS," and what's wrong with all the misinformation being spread by those who fail to fairly investigate topics before attacking them.

(I love the way certain people ad hominem attack others, but refuse to view, with an open mind, what information is actually being presented.)

Friday October 2, 2009, 1:57 pm
I have seen is work before. Not impressed.

Friday October 2, 2009, 2:02 pm
NE L and Ch Hardy, click here

Friday October 2, 2009, 2:08 pm
Why is it that some Americans say that if someone criticises the US they don't love it.
That's among the stupidest things I've ever heard. Generally if something disappoints you it's generally because you love it rather than hate it; after all if you hated it why the hell would you care.

Friday October 2, 2009, 2:12 pm
It think this is going to give alot of people insite on problems we face and why Obama is the right President for our times

I am looking forward to watching this movie

Thanks Marion :)

Friday October 2, 2009, 2:19 pm
A little off topic, but immensely important. Please sign this petition. By doing so, we might someday rid this country of the ignorance that is so prevalent.

Give Your Child the Best Possible Education

Friday October 2, 2009, 2:53 pm
rRead and watch some michael moore before you comment........ you just may WAKE UP. We need people like him.. I guess yours is glenn breck, yeah i spelled it that way on purpose......

Friday October 2, 2009, 2:58 pm

Odd that you would say that, Kristen, because that was my thought too.

There are people who've commented here, who, most of the time, I disagree with -- and yet, I still read their submissions with an open mind . . . and am sometimes pleasantly surprised to find that I concur.

When one stops learning, one has ceased to expand. But, to learn, one must keep inquiring.

Friday October 2, 2009, 2:59 pm
Ah yes...but just because I disagree with you doesn't mean I don't have an open mind.

Friday October 2, 2009, 3:03 pm
Moores work is NOT based on facts.

A consistent theme can be found throughout his work, and that is a theme of deception any time it is useful. Moore fixes upon a conclusion and, when the data do not exist, simply invents them.

Friday October 2, 2009, 3:09 pm
at 44 i have just begun to learn Carole my friend, as I think all are..and ne disagreeing isnt the problem , its that you have not even checked anything out... open your thoughts and mind, wait till its on dvd if ou must and borrow it..... then start the popcorn.. my mom has gone gaga for breck, and yet at 70.. she is still willing to go w/ me to see it.... if she can do it. i think you too can.. in otherwords......FOX is not the only news out their....do us all a favor and watch before getting so angry. Yes i am a fan, maybe you too will be one, have you seen roger and me?......

Friday October 2, 2009, 3:09 pm
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07102009/transcript4....
 
"WENDELL POTTER: I thought that he hit the nail on the head with his movie. But the industry, from the moment that the industry learned that Michael Moore was taking on the health care industry, it was really concerned.

BILL MOYERS: What were they afraid of?

WENDELL POTTER: They were afraid that people would believe Michael Moore.

BILL MOYERS: We obtained a copy of the game plan that was adopted by the industry's trade association, AHIP. And it spells out the industry strategies in gold letters. It says, "Highlight horror stories of government-run systems." What was that about?

WENDELL POTTER: The industry has always tried to make Americans think that government-run systems are the worst thing that could possibly happen to them, that if you even consider that, you're heading down on the slippery slope towards socialism. So they have used scare tactics for years and years and years, to keep that from happening. If there were a broader program like our Medicare program, it could potentially reduce the profits of these big companies. So that is their biggest concern.""BILL MOYERS: This is fascinating. You know, "Build awareness among centrist Democratic policy organizations--"WENDELL POTTER: Right. BILL MOYERS: "--including the Democratic Leadership Council." WENDELL POTTER: Absolutely. BILL MOYERS: Then it says, "Message to Democratic insiders. Embracing Moore is one-way ticket back to minority party status." WENDELL POTTER: Yeah. BILL MOYERS: Now, that's exactly what they did, didn't they? They--WENDELL POTTER: Absolutely. BILL MOYERS: --radicalized Moore, so that his message was discredited because the messenger was seen to be radical."Guess who was invited to the WH summit and guess who P. Obama called on to make a statement, the association who adopted a game plan to discredit Moore and his movie SICKO.President Obama calls on Karen Ignagni of AHIP to speak on HC reformhttp://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph... And Ron Williams was invited to the HC discussions in Congress as well..."BILL MOYERS: You wrote a column with the headline, "Obama's false friends of health reform." You use as a prime example a man named Ron Williams, who is at the top of the list of insurance executives in terms of their compensation. We actually saw Ron Williams at President Obama's Town Hall meeting."
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Friday October 2, 2009, 3:12 pm

But, then, you (even though you refuse to even research Moore's material) probably know better than Potter, a healthcare insider . . . right, NE?

Friday October 2, 2009, 3:14 pm
You assume that I have not researched his material JC but I have.

Friday October 2, 2009, 3:16 pm
I also am signed up to his site. hit Michael Moore. and sign up folks, its really a great sight. been getting his stuff for years.. He is a genius. dont let his looks confuse you, its kinda like clark kent, also have you seen his wife?????

Friday October 2, 2009, 3:17 pm
MJ, thanks for the link the the TROLL USER GUIDE FOR DUMMIES. LMAO! :) Marion, thank you for the kind words. Carole, you kick butt, I like it.

You guys are ON FIAH today! :) As to these other trolls, it's true that trolling used to mean reposting the same message over and over so as to tilt the conversation, but it has evolved into just plain raining on the MAINSTEAM's parade. It's getting really old and I notice on many sites we have chasded them away because we like to have factual discussions.

Friday October 2, 2009, 3:29 pm

Well, all things considered . . . (weighing this out)

Should I listen to Michael Moore, who invested a great deal of time and money toward research, and who has won acclaim for that, verified by industry insider/whistleblowers?

-or-

Should I believe someone who has already passed judgment on his most recent film (but refuses to view it)?

Nah! I'm goin' with Michael!

Friday October 2, 2009, 3:34 pm

This, from my most recent ICH transmittal:

"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use." - Galileo Galilei

Friday October 2, 2009, 3:47 pm
SORRY ME YET AGAIN.. I WANTED THOSE THAT THINK MR. MOORE IS A CREEP, DID OU KNOW,WHEN HE WAS DOING FAHRENHEIGHT911 A FEW WEEKS BEFORE LEVING FOR WAR HE SAT DOWN W/ A YOUNG MAN. THEY FILMED IT ALL. WELL A FEW WEEKS LATER HE WAS THE FIRST ONE -"BE-HEADED" GUESS WHAT MM. DID HE GAVE THE ENTIRE PORTION TO THE FAMILY, HE COULDVE MADE MILLIONS, NO,,,,, HE GAVE IT TO THEM.. TELL ME HE'S A 'BAD-MAN" ..

Friday October 2, 2009, 3:55 pm
MICHAEL MOORE IS AN AMERICAN FRICKIN' HERO!!

NE L, I know that puts your panties in a bunch, so put it in your pipe and smoke it!

Thanks JC, for that Galileo quote. I'd forgotten he said that. I don't think that those on the far right are actually forgoing the use of those traits. They were never in their possession.

Friday October 2, 2009, 4:07 pm
NE......YOUVE NOT RESEARCHED HIM SHALL I ASK YOU ALL THE QUESTIONS HE HAS ASKED THE PEOPLE THAT RUN OUR COUNTRY AND NONE COULD ANSWER? HMMM.... IF I WAS YOU ID CRAWL AWAY, NO WORRIES, WE WONT BLAME YOU.. IF YOU TRULY DID YOUR HOMEWORK, YOU'D SEE MM DIDNT START"THE FIRE" HE IS JUST POINTING IT OUT SO WE DO NOT FORGET LIKE THE HAULOCUAST...THOUGH I BET YOU DONT BELIEVE IN THAT EITHER.. AS A JEWISH DESCENDENT.. YOU REALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLY NEED TO LEAVE BEFORE I PULL OUT MY BAG OF NASTY.. IVE BEEN HELD BACK FOR YEARS, EVEN TEACHERS, TRIED TO CALL ME THINGS INAPPROPRIATE....WALK AWAY PLEASE... SERIOUSLY.. I DONT SCREW W/ PEOPLE THAT THINK BY BEING AGAINST THE GRAIN IS JUST PLAIN OLE FUN. SPEAK YOUR MIND, WE DEBATE, I LOVE TO DEBATE, BUT DO NOT HURT ME OR FRIENDS W/ STUPIDITY OR CRUELNESS.. SPEAK W/ KNOWLEDGE AND CARE NOT MEANNESS... THEN YOU ARE MORE THEN AN WELCOME, WE WOULD NEVER FIGHT... AS i SAID DEBATES ARE FANTASTIC.. CRUELTY IS IGNORANCE...

Friday October 2, 2009, 4:11 pm
Kristen, you would love commenting on Huffington Post. A slimey troll rears its ugly head with a rude comment about Obama and 10 progressive smack them down. One time I've seen one change his mind and start getting it, but it's like haley's comet, doesnt' happen very often. I like to get their goats and make their heads explode with this one:

Troll: Obama is the worst president ever and you will never get what you want. He's lying to you bla bla , tort reform, bla bla Acorn.

My reply: No he isn't but if you want the country to fail so bad you could try "The Secret" or visualiztion.

They always come back and flame me with their vile spew, which is how I know their heads have exploded.

Then, I smile.

Friday October 2, 2009, 4:16 pm
Wow, Kristen! You don't just feed the troll, you FORCE FEED him! I love it! Let's hope he chokes.

Friday October 2, 2009, 4:24 pm
Sometimes what we "oysters" need is that grain of sand that causes us discomfort until we find a way to make it a pearl.I am not agree with certain actions, but I always want to understand the "why" I have not had the chance to view the movie at this time so I can't give an opinion...however I'm wondering if perhaps it's the personality of the messenger as well as the message that makes some individuals not want to hear what is said.Michael Moore has a way of getting up into people's face to get an answer, and for some that's just to forward. For others it's an action they couldn't do themselves but they're glad that he does.

Friday October 2, 2009, 4:28 pm
Laurie, it's true, he's not movie star material, but I don't see what about his personality would be off-putting. Doesn't everyone respect Ralph Nader for standing up to corrupt interests? Those who say bad things about Michael are usually just right wingers who would condemn anything he did. If daisies flew out of his....ears, they would find a way to say it's bad.

Friday October 2, 2009, 4:44 pm
DK...just like the saying 'speak softly and carry a big stick' well that might describe Ralph Nader.I've heard him described as a quiet nerd..and lets just not use names and if I list something about a person chances are you would know who I was speaking of...he was doing great but then he had to go holler...or I like his ideas but he's short and his ears stick out..
What I was trying to get across is some of us admire 'in your face' but are to much of an introvert ourselves to do the same.We are extremely judgemental and base our views on impressions. I bet if JC walked into a church right now he would be thrown out..long hair, beard perhaps, sandals so definitely a hippie, and those tossing out this 'street person' are some of the same telling us what is the good word is...Yes I respect alot of intelligent people..unfortunately alot of others while respected people like Nader would agree would still not vote for him because he doesn't have enough clout in the fancy.smancy designer clothing, wining dining CRAP PACK of some politicans

Friday October 2, 2009, 5:10 pm
GOOD JOB LAURIE W.

Friday October 2, 2009, 5:41 pm
I like Michael Moore and enjoy his movies. I look forward to seeing this one. From what I've heard him say, I completely agree with his take on Capitalism.

Friday October 2, 2009, 6:45 pm
MJM...Thank you for the links. I will be checking them out soon.

Laurie...Great comments. Yes, we have become such a vain society, that some people won't even look at or consider a person's merits if they don't fit a certain physical criteria. So sad.

Housekeeping...

Again, please don't feed the trolls. Their objective is to upset, disrupt or simply insult the group. If they get a comment back from you, great...they eat. If they get you upset...bingo! They hit the jackpot and can feast. They really don't care if you believe their garbage or not. They want to waste your time. They are trying to "bait" you then reel you in. If they get an argument going, this helps intimidate and keep others away from reading what may be valuable information and participating in a discussion. Also, by feeding the troll, you waste space and other viewers may not want to read through all the crap to continue through the thread. So, by feeding the trolls, you do a disservice to the discussion and yourself as well.

I have been guilty of feeding the trolls. But no more. They are a waste of time. If the trolls keep badgering a thread and no one is acknowledging them, flag them. If they add no value to a thread, flag them. If they insult you, flag them. I have managed to get several trolls removed from threads and Care2. I have also reported one troll to the Secret Service and they are currently under investigation. This is serious business. We have a right to free speech and exchanges of information without trolls interferring. Keep doing this and we can clean this place up so we can have decent discussions and exchanges of information.

MJM, thank you for the troll link. I encourage everyone to read it and save it for reference.

Friday October 2, 2009, 7:49 pm
I saw the movie today. Moore does not disappoint. I was saddened, amused, enraged, enlightened, encouraged and entertained from this movie. So many emotions. Every American should see this movie. There were a number of things I learned:

* Beginning with President Reagan, wages were frozen and continue to be, people began working harder and longer hours, more medications and antidepressants were sold, and incarcerations increased heavily.

* Judges collected money from child care organizations where they incarcerated teens needlessly, getting kickbacks from these private institutions.

* Pilots earn pitiful salaries and have been known to collect welfare and work other jobs to make ends meet. The NY plane crash in February 2009 where all passengers died was because the pilots were talking about their financial situation. This was not reported in the news. The pilots of that crash earned $16 - 20k per year. Not an excuse to be distracted, but when bills are going unpaid, people have difficulty concentrating.

* Blue chip companies like Walmart, GE and many others took out secret life insurance policies on employees. When employees died, they have collected amounts upwards of $1.5 million. They call the clause in this practice "dead peasants. Yes folks, they considered the employees "peasants." The employees were more valuable to to employer dead than they were alive. Walmart is no longer doing this practice.

Talking to a pastor about whether capitalism is a Christian system and a good thing, the pastor said capitalism is "immoral, obscene and radically evil." The pastor pointed to scripture in the bible where it said words to this effect: "blessed to the poor, woe to the rich."

A man in the movie interviewed by Moore described derivatives as complicated, billing schemes that were purposely meant to confuse the people from understanding them. He said Wall Street is an insane casino where they can bet on anything. He described capitalism as "a fundamentally weak system built on sand, rotting over time."

One female politician (I didn't get her name) said the $700 billion Wall Street bailout from last year was a "financial coup d' etat." As many of you know, Bush and Paulson rushed the panic button and pushed the democrats (Pelosi and Reid etal) to sign the bill...right away or the world would crash.

As people across the nation lost and continue to lose their homes, the head of Countrywide allowed politicians and other elites to have their fees waived on mortgages and loans. Senator Chris Dodd (D) who headed the mortgage company investigations, was one of those who benefited from this crime.

In 2004, the FBI was about to bust the major mortgage fraud wide open. This happened right after 9-11. Bush conveniently transferred 500 FBI agents off this important white collar crime investigation to work on 9-11. The fix was in. The investigation was dropped.

Citibank had memos circulated where they "gloated" over how they had ripped off the people.

A couple of business models were highlighted where employees "own" part of the company too. These are true democratically run businesses where money is taken out of the equation. If an employee is part owner, they will think long and hard about firing someone and giving salary increases to higher ups. One business, a bread company, had regular employees earning $65,000 per year, three times the amount of a comparable company that is not run this way.

FDR had a vision for all Americans to have security after the disasters of The Great Depression: health care, disability, social security and other government programs. 65 years after his death, America still has not completed FDR's vision. However, the countries we fought in the wars where we helped build their countries...Italy, Germany, Japan...they have succeeded in providing these benefits to their people. We did not become the country FDR envisioned. Rather, we became Katrina.

Moore ends the movie by saying "Capitalism is evil and must be replaced by something good for all."

"For unless there is security here at home, there can't be lasting peace in the world" ~ FDR

Friday October 2, 2009, 8:41 pm
We missed you, Marion. Glad you're back.
Thank you for this insightful review of the film.

Friday October 2, 2009, 9:24 pm
I like Michael Moore as well but I have only seen Sicko. I hope they show this movie in Australia as my husband and I are off to Australia to see my family.Getting very excited :-)

Saturday October 3, 2009, 7:13 am
We need more people like Michael Moore to stand up and tell it like it is. He is an amazing person who does not mind standing up for what is right, and telling us about what is really wrong. Thank goodness we have him on our side. There is so much WRONG in this nation.... and he is willing to expose the corruption, lies, and greed. Thank goodness for Michael Moore! I commend him for his work, his sharing, and his willingness to stand up against the government.

Saturday October 3, 2009, 7:26 am
Jim ~ Thank you so much for the information and links to the "End of Poverty" movie. Yes, this does relate to this thread's topic on capitalism, and it's important to understand how this all links together in the grand scheme of rich vs. poor so we can eradicate this evil. I have always suspected that poverty and hunger are no accident. The movie comes to Los Angeles Nov. 25. I will make a note to see it. For those who haven't visited the links above, here's what it's about:

The purpose of RSF is to introduce the ideas of Henry George, a late 19th century economist and social reformer, to the public. “The End of Poverty” opens with the question Henry George asked more than a century ago: Why does poverty become a deeper problem as a society becomes more prosperous? That is the fundamental paradox he raised in Progress and Poverty, which sold millions of copies in over a dozen languages. Until 1917, his philosophy was regarded as the primary radical alternative to Marxism.

A simple way of describing George’s core insight is to say that the rich-poor divide largely corresponds to the division between those who own real estate and natural resources and those who do not. In developing countries, the rich own agricultural land and mineral resources. In developed countries, they own urban real estate (worth trillions of dollars) and the stocks and bonds of corporations that own either urban real estate or mineral wealth. The poor then work for the rich in a market that is rigged to keep them poor because of unequal ownership.

A second part of George’s message was that the rich do not just own resources–they hoard them in anticipation of a price rise. The recent global housing boom and bust is an example. That cycle increases poverty in three ways: first, by pricing the poor out of housing, second, by encouraging real estate to be held “in storage” rather than in use, and third, by raising the unemployment rate after the inevitable crash. Everyone in the world is hurt by this, even the slum dwellers made famous by “Slumdog Millionaire.”

The film touches on the relationship between land hoarding and poverty (and what Miloon Kothari refers to as “real estate violence”), but since it was completed before the housing bubble burst, it does not address the consequences of that particular disaster.

Rather than focusing on current events, “The End of Poverty?” raises questions about the long-range trajectory of anti-poverty programs in order to explain why they have failed. The problem, as viewers will understand, does not stem from personal inadequacies of the poor, as a conservative view of poverty would have us believe. Instead, poverty arose historically from the dispossession of European peasants of their land, followed by the application of the same policy around the world through colonialism. In places relatively untouched by colonialism, such as the state of Kerala in India, a high degree of equality of ownership persisted and mass poverty never became an issue.

Structural conditions create poverty in all countries, both rich and poor. But the methods of enforcing a regime of impoverishment are more starkly defined in developing countries than in the U.S. or Europe. By examining the roots of poverty in the Third World, as the film does, it becomes clear that poverty results from inequality of power. Colonialism and slavery were based on sheer military power. When colonialism formally ended, the newly independent states were saddled with 1) land laws that left large estates in the hands of colonial settlers, 2) international debt that was inherited from the colonial masters and that continued to grow, and 3) unbalanced economies based on the export of raw materials, rather than manufactured goods.

The promise of foreign aid and economic development has been, by and large, a cruel hoax. As long as unjust structures are in place, the fruits and development are siphoned off as interest on debt or as special benefits to the local elite. As a result, poverty grows worse over time.

Henry George wrote soon after the American Civil War, when the imperial powers of Europe, the U.S., and Japan, had not yet carved up the world and gained economic dominance. He died before the U.S. colonized the Philippines in 1900, although it seems likely that he would have opposed such colonial ventures. Nevertheless, the writings of Henry George do not shed light directly on many of the issues in the film. For that reason, the film raises as many questions as it answers.

We hope you will find this site useful in thinking about steps that might be taken to end poverty. Institutions have created the problems we face today. Working together, we can change the institutions that perpetuate poverty. If we do that, we can remove the question mark in the title: “The End of Poverty?”

The end of poverty trailer
the end of poverty.com
poverty think again
about the film the end of poverty

MJM ~ Thanks for the hotlinks.

Saturday October 3, 2009, 8:00 am
"BILL MOYERS: We obtained a copy of the game plan that was adopted by the industry's trade association, AHIP. And it spells out the industry strategies in gold letters. It says, "Highlight horror stories of government-run systems." What was that about? "

Carole ~ Thank you for pointing out the Bill Moyers interview with Wendell Potter. After seeing Moore's movie, I can understand why the health care industry, Wall Street, politicians and elites are very afraid of the masses seeing this movie. Millions, if not billions, of dollars have been spent by the elites to buy politicians, media shills and advertising to convince a considerable segment of the population that Obama and minorities will take "their" country and all they have worked for from them. Presidents Washington, Lincoln, Roosevelt and others warned about the rich doing this. Yet, here we are in 2009 still battling these evil, greedy people who represent about 1% of us.

Rather than riotous town hall meetings and protests based on lies, we would have the majority of Americans marching in the streets protesting the rich and elites after seeing this movie. This is what Moore proposes at the end of the movie.

This is not about democrats vs. republicans, because they are two sides of the same coin. This is about rich vs. poor. There is no middle class anymore.

Saturday October 3, 2009, 8:19 am
Michael Moore is a perfect example of how capitalism works.

Saturday October 3, 2009, 8:54 am
I see you agree, NEL, that Michael Moore is truly an American Hero. What took you so long to come around?

Saturday October 3, 2009, 9:48 am
An American hero? Hardly...that's laughable. A capitalist? Most definitely!

Saturday October 3, 2009, 9:50 am
He is no more a hero than Glenn Beck.

Saturday October 3, 2009, 10:02 am
"There is a sufficiency in the world for man's need -- but not for man's greed."
M. Ghandi

"We're not a democracy. It's a terrible misunderstanding and a slander to the idea of democracy to call us that. In reality, we're a plutocracy: a government by the wealthy."
Ramsey Clark, former U.S. Attorney General

"Of all forms of tyranny the least attractive and the most vulgar is the tyranny of mere wealth, the tyranny of plutocracy"
John Pierpont Morgan

Saturday October 3, 2009, 10:16 am
Michael Moore gives us ideas that challenge the hypocrisy of capitalism (e.g. inequality, exploitation, racism, sexism, xenophobia, islamophobia, war, privatisation, consumerism, etc.). If you dislike these ideas, and you prefer capitalism instead, then YOU are a hypocrit, and you are supporting inequality, exploitation, racism, sexism, xenophobia, islamophobia, war, privatisation, consumerism, etc....

Saturday October 3, 2009, 10:40 am
Movie Review | 'Capitalism: A Love Story': Greed Is Good? He Begs to Differ

LINK: http://movies.nytimes.com/2009/09/23/movies/23capitalism.html?emc=eta1

Greed Is Good? He Begs to Differ

Article Tools Sponsored By
By MANOHLA DARGIS
Published: September 23, 2009

Michael Moore’s “Capitalism: A Love Story” is anything but — something you, I and everyone who has ever watched him shamble into action, megaphone to mouth, know from the start. He might have had a crush on capitalism early on, yet anyone who thinks that the two have been on friendly terms for a while hasn’t been paying attention. After years of needling big business in movies like “Roger & Me” (about the auto industry) and “Sicko” (health insurance), and giving voice to the disempowered, he has finally decided to go after the system that, in his words, is dedicated to “taking and giving, mostly taking.”

His timing couldn’t be better, as the headlines and innumerable journalists, politicians, bloggers, tea partiers, talk-show bloviators and millions of unemployed, underemployed, fed-up and freaked-out citizens are making clear. It’s the morning after in America (where one of the big movie hits of the year is titled “The Hangover”), and Captain Mike is here to explain it all or at least crack jokes, milk tears, recycle the news and fan the flames of liberal indignation. Along the way, because his heart is in the right place even if his images aren’t always, he also makes room for other voices, including those of striking workers and members of one family in foreclosure who videotaped the police breaking down the door to evict them.

Nothing if not direct, Mr. Moore cuts right to the point or rather the queasy joke, opening the movie with surveillance shots of citizens partaking of a favorite pastime: robbing banks. He then introduces some wittily culled clips from a movie titled “Life in Ancient Rome,” which looks and sounds like one of those educational flicks you tried to sleep through in school and which he juxtaposes with more recent totems of American power, including the Metropolitan Opera House at Lincoln Center draped in the Stars and Stripes. (The New York premiere of the movie on Monday was at Alice Tully Hall, the main site for the New York Film Festival. Mr. Moore isn’t in this year’s lineup, but still grabbed some of its spotlight.)

America, in other words, is headed straight down the historical toilet, along with Nero and his fiddle (or rather Dick Cheney, who’s anointed with a throwaway reference to the “emperor”), a thesis that Mr. Moore continues to advance if not refine with another hour and a half or so of alternatingly entertaining and distracting found footage; some stirring archival images of Franklin Delano Roosevelt; snippets from charming home movies; and assorted weeping, gloating, pontificating and sensible talking heads. Some of those heads are baffling (the actor and author Wallace Shawn, enlisted to explain free enterprise); some of them are sharp, welcome, bracing, provoking, mostly when they’re able to talk without too much interference from the comically mugging, slack-jawed Mr. Moore.

Despite the waggish invocation of ancient Rome, the story in “Capitalism” more truly begins where and when its director did, in Flint, Mich., after the end of World War II. In broad strokes Mr. Moore, who was born in 1954, positions himself as an Everyman whose family reaped all the usual rewards of postwar middle-class prosperity. This collective dream begins to disintegrate rather fuzzily (cue the Vietnam War), coming to a bummer climax in the 1970s (cue an unsmiling Jimmy Carter in a cardigan) and culminating in the ascension of the Smiler in Chief, Ronald Reagan, whom Mr. Moore introduces as a “spokesmodel for president.” Tax cuts, union busting and household debt ensue, as does some protest, notably in the form of “Roger & Me,” Mr. Moore’s first movie.

Mr. Moore doesn’t just refer to “Roger & Me,” which involved his attempts to speak with Roger Smith, the chief executive of the floundering General Motors; he also includes some nominal highlights from that 1989 movie. A lot of performers like to replay their early hits, so it isn’t surprising that Mr. Moore, a practiced showman, recycles images of his younger, slimmer self engaging in one of his trademark moves: trying to enter a building to speak truth to power, only to be turned away by security guards. It was faintly amusing theater then, especially if you didn’t think too hard about the fact that he was hassling working people just trying to do their jobs. It’s less amusing when he repeats the same routine in “Capitalism.”

He’s on far firmer ethical ground when he doesn’t use other human beings as props. Some of the more effective scenes in “Capitalism” involve his straightforward, journalistic interviews with people who have been abused by the greed of their employers. In one segment he visits with a widower whose wife was unknowingly insured by her company — a sleazy practice colloquially known as dead peasant insurance — which earned it a chunk of change when the woman died. (Even after death, your boss can exploit you.) Like many of the stories Mr. Moore pulls together in this movie, dead peasant insurance might not be a revelation to those who follow the news, but it makes for infuriating viewing.

In the end, what is to be done? After watching “Capitalism,” it beats me. Mr. Moore doesn’t have any real answers, either, which tends to be true of most socially minded directors in the commercial mainstream and speaks more to the limits of such filmmaking than to anything else. Like most of his movies, “Capitalism” is a tragedy disguised as a comedy; it’s also an entertainment. This isn’t the story of capitalism as conceived by Karl Marx or Naomi Klein, and it certainly isn’t the story of contemporary American capitalism, which extends across the globe and far beyond Mr. Moore’s sightlines.

Neither is it an effective call to action: Mr. Moore would like us to vote, which suggests a startling faith in the possibilities of social change in the current political system. That faith appears to be due in some part to the election of President Obama.

As it happens, the most galvanizing words in the movie come not from the current president but from Roosevelt, who in 1944 called for a “second bill of rights,” asserting that “true individual freedom cannot exist without economic security and independence.” The image of this visibly frail president, who died the next year, appealing to our collective conscience — and mapping out an American future that remains elusive — is moving beyond words. And chilling: “People who are hungry and out of a job are the stuff of which dictatorships are made.” It’s a brilliant moment of cinema both for the man delivering the speech and for Mr. Moore, who smartly realized that he’d found one other voice that needed to be as loud as his own.

“Capitalism: A Love Story” is rated R (Under 17 requires accompanying parent or adult guardian). Strong language.

CAPITALISM

A Love Story

Opens on Wednesday in New York and Los Angeles.

Written and directed by Michael Moore; directors of photography, Daniel Marracino and Jayme Roy; edited by John Walter and Conor O’Neill; music by Jeff Gibbs; produced by Mr. Moore and Anne Moore; released by Overture Films. Running time: 2 hours 6 minutes.
.

Saturday October 3, 2009, 10:43 am
"We missed you, Marion. Glad you're back." ...?

Saturday October 3, 2009, 10:46 am
For those of you wanting to watch a variety of previews in a full screen HD viewing, here is a link:
There is a clip for your iPod too.

http://www.apple.com/trailers/independent/capitalismalovestory/
.

Saturday October 3, 2009, 11:14 am
Awesome posts, Marion, and all!
Nothing wrong with making money - what I have trouble with are the folks who make the money and spend it lavishly on extravagant luxuries or hoard it completely without a thought to those less fortunate. Using money to inform or help people is a good thing and MIchael Moore deserves to make a LOT of money.

Saturday October 3, 2009, 11:18 am
Capitalism a Love Story

Saturday October 3, 2009, 11:47 am
"An American hero? Hardly...that's laughable. A capitalist? Most definitely! " Ne L

American Hero? Capitalist? The right should be applauding him for being such a great American Hero. Assuming he is a capitalist. Did he make more than a million dollars last year. Then applaud him! That's what I've been hearing all these people making mega-millions have "earned it". So applaud him. Go ahead- do it. You should applaud him. He earned it.

Saturday October 3, 2009, 12:02 pm
""We missed you, Marion. Glad you're back." ...? "

David...I left yesterday to watch the movie at the theater. Marshall made this comment after I returned.

Arielle...I agree, we've had some great posts here. I hope we keep the momentum going by sharing the movie and Michael Moore with everyone we know. Being a documentary, many will not bother to watch it as they look for more exciting, action-packed films to make them forget their daily struggles. By forwarding our endorsement of the film to them and asking our family and friends to also spread the word, we can help educate the masses. People are ready for this message.

Saturday October 3, 2009, 12:38 pm
Big Thanks for posting this Marion.

Saturday October 3, 2009, 2:45 pm
Thanks, Marion. I love Michael Moore and look forward to seeing his latest film. At least he does some good with the money he makes - unlike the greedy bankers and politicians. May he make many more films and write many more books.

Saturday October 3, 2009, 3:17 pm
The only problem with Michael Moore films is that most of the people who go to see them already know what time of day it is in this country, and the ignorant masses who NEED to be seeing his films so as to receive some education as to how the U.S. got to to be in the state it's in, see Michael Moore as Limbaugh, Beck, Hannity and O'Reilly tell them to see him. It's clear from watching Moore's movies that he sees the American people suffering as a result of corporate greed and is trying to do something about it. That he's become such a thorn in the side of a bunch of particularly odious corporations makes him a hero of mine.

Saturday October 3, 2009, 3:26 pm

A comment WELL WORTHY of a star . . . and more! [standing]

Saturday October 3, 2009, 3:27 pm
hmmm. Thomas. I am on medicade. i get 449.34 plus i get very little in food stamps. i just want things to be better. I think Michael Moore Is a terrific at what he does. he is a good man. learn more and know more... simple..

Saturday October 3, 2009, 3:31 pm
Is it just me . . . or are American citizens beginning to resemble the people portrayed in Emma Lazurus' poem?

"Give me your tired, your poor,

Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,

The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.

Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,

I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

Saturday October 3, 2009, 6:21 pm
I look forward to seeing this film; I look forward more to things being done which Michael Moore suggests.

Saturday October 3, 2009, 8:45 pm
Spot-on observation Carole! American citizens ARE beginning to resemble the people portrayed in Emma Lazurus' poem. How sad.

Saturday October 3, 2009, 11:07 pm
"
Ah yes...but just because I disagree with you doesn't mean I don't have an open mind. "

Umm, no because you admit to forming an opinion without having a desire to even see the film is why you dont have an 'open mind'. By definition, big boy.

Sunday October 4, 2009, 8:06 am
Ahhhh, yes, this weekend more than NYC & LA FINALLY got Michael Moore's "Capitalism: A Love Story"....gosh, I've been waiting for it forever, and it's been proudly up, advertising it, on my Care2 website for at least a month now!

Wow! What a LOT of great comments, and a very informed poster you are, dear Marion! I love the background you've researched on Michael Moore's latest movie, and for all of you who have sent along websites to review, learn about & even sign, I appreciate you, too!

I have lived most of my life about 30 mins. from Flint, MI...home of Michael Moore. He is NOT lining his pockets with the $'s he's making for his documentaries, BUT he is lining his shelves with awards from his various documentaries!

If you're a stranger to the man & the history of what makes him who he is today, here's his info. You can disagree with him, but his body of work definitely stands up to all the awards he's received! Some would say he's always been a rebel, but if that's whom is bred from a simple auto assembly line worker in the auto capital of the world, then he's paid his dues to produce & star in this most recent documentary.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Moore

He will always be that same poor boy at heart. He continues to work HARD for the underdogs (me), and people like me who feel the pirates stealing $$$'s (booty?) have nothing over on the buccaneers of Wall Street, the banks, and insurance companies who continue to happily loot America with the help of our elected officials.

We ALL know this, and it's sad that Mr. Moore must use HIS $'s to wake us all up out of the stupor that's being contstantly pulled over our eyes. (willingly, and without much opposition from any side)!

We need a rabble-rouser telling us how our democracy became so corrupt! Why did he do his crazy stunts like making a citizen's arrest on the board of AIG or hanging yellow crime-scene tape around the banks? TO GET OUR ATTENTION!! TO GET A LITTLE RISE FROM OUR APATHETIC LAZY B*TTS!

What he does with hs camera is what we should be seeing with our hearts - even as we fill it in our empty pockets. Is "your" house in foreclosure? Are you out of a job? Do you get that HE isn't sitting there in Flint watching his town go completely broke without getting UP and doing something about it?

Heck...just GO SEE IT - it really is one heck of a "LOVE STORY"...maybe not have Ryan O'Neal or Ali MacGraw in it, but I guarantee it WILL have you laughing, crying, and soaking in a bit of information that can change our lives!

P.S. If you got a Green Star from me, I've appreciated reading your comments! And as for you, Marion, you've done your job so amazingly here that you've earned your right to pick the subject for his NEXT documentary! :))

Sunday October 4, 2009, 8:21 am
"Umm, no because you admit to forming an opinion without having a desire to even see the film is why you dont have an 'open mind'. By definition, big boy."


OK, first I'm not boy and ....I guess that means you all will be going out to buy Sarah Palins new book right?

Sunday October 4, 2009, 8:23 am
Peace Love Earth...Thank you so much for putting Moore into perspective...and the complimentary words. I had no idea you were from the Flint, MI area. You would know economic devastation there better than most, and understand why Moore is on a mission to save Americans from the greedy corporations and banks. I'm glad you endorse this movie too. It's the best movie money I've spent in a long time. Thanks again, my dear friend!

Sunday October 4, 2009, 8:23 am
I mean to keep an open mind and all, you really must read her new book, right?

Sunday October 4, 2009, 8:35 am
A message from Michael Moore...

For Those of You on Your Way to Church This Morning ...a note from Michael Moore

Sunday, October 4th, 2009

Friends,

I'd like to have a word with those of you who call yourselves Christians (Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, Bill Maherists, etc. can read along, too, as much of what I have to say, I'm sure, can be applied to your own spiritual/ethical values).

In my new film I speak for the first time in one of my movies about my own spiritual beliefs. I have always believed that one's religious leanings are deeply personal and should be kept private. After all, we've heard enough yammerin' in the past three decades about how one should "behave," and I have to say I'm pretty burned out on pieties and platitudes considering we are a violent nation who invades other countries and punishes our own for having the audacity to fall on hard times.

I'm also against any proselytizing; I certainly don't want you to join anything I belong to. Also, as a Catholic, I have much to say about the Church as an institution, but I'll leave that for another day (or movie).

Amidst all the Wall Street bad guys and corrupt members of Congress exposed in "Capitalism: A Love Story," I pose a simple question in the movie: "Is capitalism a sin?" I go on to ask, "Would Jesus be a capitalist?" Would he belong to a hedge fund? Would he sell short? Would he approve of a system that has allowed the richest 1% to have more financial wealth than the 95% under them combined?

I have come to believe that there is no getting around the fact that capitalism is opposite everything that Jesus (and Moses and Mohammed and Buddha) taught. All the great religions are clear about one thing: It is evil to take the majority of the pie and leave what's left for everyone to fight over. Jesus said that the rich man would have a very hard time getting into heaven. He told us that we had to be our brother's and sister's keepers and that the riches that did exist were to be divided fairly. He said that if you failed to house the homeless and feed the hungry, you'd have a hard time finding the pin code to the pearly gates.

I guess that's bad news for us Americans. Here's how we define "Blessed Are the Poor": We now have the highest unemployment rate since 1983. There's a foreclosure filing once every 7.5 seconds. 14,000 people every day lose their health insurance.

At the same time, Wall Street bankers ("Blessed Are the Wealthy"?) are amassing more and more loot -- and they do their best to pay little or no income tax (last year Goldman Sachs' tax rate was a mere 1%!). Would Jesus approve of this? If not, why do we let such an evil system continue? It doesn't seem you can call yourself a Capitalist AND a Christian -- because you cannot love your money AND love your neighbor when you are denying your neighbor the ability to see a doctor just so you can have a better bottom line. That's called "immoral" -- and you are committing a sin when you benefit at the expense of others.

When you are in church this morning, please think about this. I am asking you to allow your "better angels" to come forward. And if you are among the millions of Americans who are struggling to make it from week to week, please know that I promise to do what I can to stop this evil -- and I hope you'll join me in not giving up until everyone has a seat at the table.

Thanks for listening. I'm off to Mass in a few hours. I'll be sure to ask the priest if he thinks J.C. deals in derivatives or credit default swaps. I mean, after all, he must've been good at math. How else did he divide up two loaves of bread and five pieces of fish equally amongst 5,000 people? Either he was the first socialist or his disciples were really bad at packing lunch. Or both.

Yours,
Michael Moore
MMFlint@aol.com
MichaelMoore.com


Join Mike's Mailing List | Join Mike's Facebook Group | Follow Mike on Twitter | Become Mike's MySpace Friend

Sunday October 4, 2009, 9:09 am
I've been calling on people to acknowledge Michael Moore as an American hero. That doesn't begin to do this man justice. Where do I sign Mr Moore up for Sainthood?

Sunday October 4, 2009, 9:52 am
NE L.: "I guess that means you all will be going out to buy Sarah Palins new book right?"
_____

Sarah Palin’s soon-to-be-released book was ghostwritten by Lynn Vincent. Who’s Lynn Vincent? She’s the co-author of a book with white supremacist blogger Robert Stacy McCain.

Love this comment made by a commentator on this web site, link below. "Sarah Palin is not a model for anything other than the worst kind of amoral political opportunism."

Link:

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/34788_Sarah_Palins_Book_Ghostwritten_by_Associate_of_White_Supremacist_McCain/comments/#ctop

No, I'm not feeding this "misbegotten troll". Maybe I'll pick up this book once it reaches the used book section at the local non-profit charity store.
.

Sunday October 4, 2009, 10:05 am
NE why are you even here girl?
There's no winning when people begin worshipping other people.
Come on over to another thread that is actually productive in nature for REAL causes and not faux ones.
You are far too intelligent for this BS.
By the way I will also be buying the Palin book:)
So are several of my friends who happen to also be minorities.
So you guys who keep using the race card for every little issue here's a wake up call for ya.

New polls show that only 12% of Americans are falling for the race baiting by the Liberal Elite.

Sunday October 4, 2009, 10:35 am
Lady L: What and where is this "thread that is actually productive in nature for REAL causes and not faux ones."?

How about a link to the poll...?

Please, back up your comments with the links of your sources.
_____

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Green_Footballs
.

Sunday October 4, 2009, 10:45 am
Jim, ol' buddy, we can't fight that logic. They're too intelligent for this BS, so they're running out to buy Bambo Barbie's literary masterpiece. I have to bow to the irony.

Sunday October 4, 2009, 10:51 am
I would just like to say one lil thing about trolls, sometimes we need to debate..I know we really dont want any fighting, but I like to hear others opinions, and yes, I enjoy debating, I can get mean, but its usually becuase they start it, not always,but I like to hhear both sides of everything.. so im not really feeding the trolls, i am learnin from them, its how we make decisions.... so please forgive my popcorn...

Sunday October 4, 2009, 11:20 am
" I want to go outside and play"
"well you can as soon as you pick up"
" But I don't want to" You don't love me and I'm just going to run away, and find a mommy that won't make me oick up my messes"
" OK, supper will be ready by 5pm"
" OK, what are we having?"
OOPS...sorry for some reason I felt like I had been taking back in time reading some of the comments here..and I really do enjoy discussions not Tit for Tat.

Sunday October 4, 2009, 11:37 am
Michael Moore : 'Also, as a Catholic, I have much to say about the Church as an institution, but I'll leave that for another day (or movie).'

I can't wait for that film.

Sunday October 4, 2009, 11:45 am
Marshall ~ I can't wait for that film too. It will be a doozie.

On another note...

From ABC News: Are 'Dead Peasant' Life Insurance Policies Fair? The anchors were "stunned" to find that this is going on after watching Michael Moore's new movie, Capitalism a Love Story. Maybe Claire Shipman wouldn't be so surprised if they weren't using a documentary film maker as their research department.

Life insurance used to be rather straightforward, known for offering security to loved ones in a tough time.

So when Irma Johnson learned that her husband, Daniel, who died of brain cancer, had been insured for $1.5 million, it should have been at least a small comfort.

But she did not receive the money. His employer did.

It's one of the strangest free-market perversions that Michael Moore highlights in his latest film, "Capitalism: A Love Story."

In the corporate practice dubbed "Dead Peasants" life insurance companies wager on employees' lives, expecting to make money when they die.

And it's pervasive, said Mike Myers, an attorney who has uncovered many of these cases and helped angry relatives sue.

"Life insurance is traditionally used to guard against the death of breadwinners. This is an investment scheme," he said.

Dozens of blue chip companies have these policies, according to Myers. But only banks are forced to reveal them, and several have billions of dollars worth of policies.

"The driving force behind it is the tax deductions," he said.

The life insurance policies were designed to allow companies to insure a few crucial executives. Savvy companies then realized they could also get a tax break by insuring many lower-level employees.

The financial scheme doesn't actually cost the employees anything, except, some say, their trust.

Betina Tillman felt shocked and deceived when a reporter from The Wall Street Journal told her that her brother, a music store cashier, was insured by his employer for $339,000 when he died, despite the fact that he no longer worked at the store.

"We were just in disbelief they were able to do it, and actually cash the policy and cash in on the policy," Tillman said.

She sued, and won. Now, the government mandates that companies obtain the consent of employees.

Sunday October 4, 2009, 12:07 pm
This is my last comment on "palinsane".

The husband of former GOP vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin has quit his oil field job on the North Slope. Todd Palin's resignation as a production operator for oil giant BP PLC comes almost two months after his wife stepped down as Alaska governor and shortly before the release of her highly anticipated memoir in a deal rumored to be worth millions.

LINK:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2009/10/02/national/a111609D55.DTL

Quitting must run in the family... Their new "motto" could easily become "Quit Baby Quit"... lol...
.

Sunday October 4, 2009, 12:19 pm
Now that Letterman quip makes sense. 'While you're picking up Sarah's new book, be sure to look for Todd Palin's new book, 'Still Sitting on my A**'. In book stores everywhere.

Sunday October 4, 2009, 12:37 pm
LOL.....Talk about what a doozie he would have made for a First Lady..Hope they are set up with twin mirrors in their bathroom..:)

Sunday October 4, 2009, 8:16 pm
Capitalism not working? How can one say that? Aren't the top one percent getting more every day? What else is the purpose?

Monday October 5, 2009, 7:40 am
Jim and Marshall ~ Thanks for the laugh. Only in America under capitalism can you run for high office with little intelligence or integrity, get endorsements and tons of money for that same lack of intelligence and integrity, quit jobs you were lucky to get in the first place, write a book that someone else actually writes for you, and collect millions from the proceeds. What an amazing country we live in.

Monday October 5, 2009, 7:53 am
I hope that the Palins have COBRA'ed their health insurance, given how concerned they were abotu Trip and those "death panels".

Monday October 5, 2009, 9:29 am
Marion - The same can be said for bush too as well... lol... plus...

"...bush left the White House unpopular and disgraced."
.

Monday October 5, 2009, 12:28 pm
"Only in America under capitalism can you run for high office with little intelligence or integrity, get endorsements and tons of money for that same lack of intelligence and integrity, quit jobs you were lucky to get in the first place, write a book that someone else actually writes for you, and collect millions from the proceeds. What an amazing country we live in."

No doubt, I hardly think there are too many other places in the world she could get away with that. And really, no need to buy Palin's ghost-written piece of garbage to know it's full of self-aggrandizing, quasi-religious gobblety-gook. Michael Moore does HIS OWN work, and that to allow America to take a look in the mirror. It's safe to say Palin's in it for the money and fame.

Monday October 5, 2009, 12:40 pm
I think people are wrong about this movie and it looks good and reveals why our poor and poverty level people are in right now. It was about Greed and people taking our money. That letter from Moore the other day hit then ail on the head about helping the poor when you have extra money. I would like to see a Big Change in this nation soon because I don't like seeing people suffer no more.

Monday October 5, 2009, 12:47 pm
"Only in America under capitalism can you run for high office with little intelligence or integrity, get endorsements and tons of money for that same lack of intelligence and integrity, quit jobs you were lucky to get in the first place, write a book that someone else actually writes for you, and collect millions from the proceeds. What an amazing country we live in."


Sounds like Obama's story

Monday October 5, 2009, 12:58 pm
Nel, if you think Obama has little intelligence, you're showing your complete and utter lack of same.

pssssssssssssssss, you ignorant troll.

Monday October 5, 2009, 1:18 pm
MJ M, if you think Palin has little intelligence, you're showing your complete and utter lack of same.

pssssssssssssssss, you ignorant troll

Monday October 5, 2009, 1:37 pm
Obama's educational background:

Obama is a graduate of Columbia University and Harvard Law School, where he was the president of the Harvard Law Review. He was a community organizer in Chicago before earning his law degree. He worked as a civil rights attorney in Chicago and taught constitutional law at the University of Chicago Law School from 1992 to 2004.

LINK: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama
_____

Palin' educational background: The neutrality of this article is disputed. Please see the discussion on the talk page. Please do not remove this message until the dispute is resolved.

LINK: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Palin

Unfortunately, there was nothing on the above link, Wikipedia, referring to palin's education. However, there is this LINK below:

Sarah Palin's Extensive College Career "She (at last!) graduated with a degree in journalism."

http://www.usnews.com/blogs/paper-trail/2008/09/05/sarah-palins-extensive-college-career.html
_____
NE L. if you think Obama has little intelligence, you're showing your complete and utter lack of same.

"pssssssssssssssss, you ignorant troll."
.

Monday October 5, 2009, 1:42 pm
It's not really the words that define a troll, NE L, it's the actions, and you've just proven without a doubt that you are one.

Monday October 5, 2009, 1:47 pm
Ditto on that. How can you even jokingly compare the intelligence of the first black president of the Harvard Law Review with a rube who couldn't even come up with the name of a newspaper when asked?

Monday October 5, 2009, 1:49 pm
Education has very little to do with intelligence. My 10yr old has an IQ of 125 but only has a 5th grade education so far. I went to school with a girl who never hade a grade lower than a B but is as dumb as a post.


BTW....wikipedia is not a reliable source.

Monday October 5, 2009, 1:52 pm
Are you refering to the president that thought he had 57 states left to visit?

Monday October 5, 2009, 2:10 pm
So, the troll's main job is to disrupt and redirect the conversation away from the topic they don't want us talking about. It's hard not to take the bait. NE's comments have no substance, they are just meant to anger.

Someone said that Michael Moore should be a Saint. I was thinking that the other day. I don't know if he's Catholic, and I am not, but someone will make him a Saint, I betcha. Aren't his works comparable to other good works?

I just think he's the best, and we are lucky he fights for us.

Monday October 5, 2009, 2:13 pm
VERY GOOD BRIGITTE T.. SHE CAN NOT EVEN SPELL.... OH YEAH NE..L.... I HAD A 10TH GRADE READING LEVEL IN THE 3RD GRADE. OUCH POPCORN GETTING HOT......I FIND WHAT YOU AS DUMB AS YOU ARE. OH NO... ITS GLENN BRECK TIME.. DON'T WANT YOU TO MISS IT.............ENJOY... THINK ILL GO READ ANOTHER BOOK.....

Monday October 5, 2009, 2:14 pm
Unfortunately not Marion our politicians are just as self-serving and ignorant; in fact one of them, a former Minister of Immigration is being sentenced in our High Court at this very moment for corruption.

Monday October 5, 2009, 2:18 pm
Anyone who thinks that Sarah Palin is clever and articulate and leadership material has set the bar pretty low. Now why would that be?

Monday October 5, 2009, 2:23 pm
Kid must have a bright father eh? Certainly didn't get that IQ from her mother.

Monday October 5, 2009, 2:33 pm
With an IQ of 125, that 10 year old must have a pretty good sense of mommy's lack of the gray matter.

Dragonfly, I betcha too. And we are all damn lucky we have someone like Michael Moore fighting for us.

Monday October 5, 2009, 2:38 pm
See LL....I told you.

Monday October 5, 2009, 2:51 pm
Rube? Thomas and Jim, you guys are being too hard on the half term Governor.. You're forgetting that advanced degree in 'fancy pageant walkin'.

Monday October 5, 2009, 2:52 pm
Since all we are doing is bickering and calling each other names, must come to two conclusions:

1. We have nothing more useful to say about the subject.
2. The trolls win.

I think I'll go take a look-see at what's up on Twitter.

Monday October 5, 2009, 3:00 pm
Well I love Obama I think he is a good man and is intelligent...Barry it is sad when people cannot debate sweetly. Angers get high cause one beleives one way and one the other. You have to be open minded folks not narrow minded noones words or opinion is the governing law. We might not like what is going on with the US...But I see one thing is yes you are tearing yourselves apart at the seams...I am sure you all have damn big hearts and people are going to tick you off...But why are you here on care2??? To meet people and have discussions have we so forgotten that???? No more bickering guys you all have some points that are right and wrong noone is PERFECT...this is not a perfect world...

Big gorilly Hugs

Monday October 5, 2009, 3:59 pm
Thank you, Gorilly Girl. That's why I asked folks not to feed the trolls. They don't debate and consider options. They demean, disrupt and obstruct. When the discussion boils down between the IQ of Obama vs Palin, we have gone into a pitiful area. By feeding the trolls, we are simply venting frustrations, but accomplishing nothing...which is what the trolls want to happen.

The topic is Capitalism and Michael Moore's movie.

Monday October 5, 2009, 4:04 pm
Marion I cannot learn about all this when things get out of topic like this... This area is NOT my strong point...LOL But I am trying but it also gets so confusing when things get so mumbled...

Big Gorilly Hugs

Monday October 5, 2009, 4:26 pm
Marion, I'm am so sorry for contributing to this detour from the topic.

To NEL, I will only say,
that you should heed the
old ative ' don't BITE the
hand that feeds ME'.

Now, back to Michael Moore. The man is a Saint! Who else has the guts to speak out on the topics he does?

Monday October 5, 2009, 4:34 pm

Thank you, MJ!

And for those who decry his efforts, and insinuate that he is nothing more than a capitalist himself -- THINK AGAIN!

This man devoted years to something he was unsure would pan out . . . but, believed that he could reach enough people to make those others who invested their capital into his work that it would pay off. If he were NOT profitable, no one else would invest in any of his FUTURE endeavors.

I only WISH I could say that others making billions of dollars were doing so with a good motive.

SHAME on the finger-pointers (many of which don't even want a small percentage of their tax dollars to provide healthcare for the people in this country who are suffering from the greed of major corporations, who bailed out their top executives and tossed their workers to the curb).

Monday October 5, 2009, 5:33 pm
Considering all the big dollar, vacuous crap Hollywierd puts out, any attempt to say that Mr Moore's low-budget, thought-provoking, issue raising films were made with profit as a primary motive is an extremely lame and ineffectual attempt at character assassination. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if Michael Moore were nominated for a Nobel peace prize.

Tuesday October 6, 2009, 1:51 pm
Marshall, Carole and Thomas...STARS to you for your comments!

Tuesday October 6, 2009, 3:06 pm
Thanking Jim Phillips for the review. With an 80% hearing loss that will help when the movie gets here.
Somebody posted the reminder that Adam Smith one of the original philosophers of the Market mentioned it will only work with Christian principles. Shows somebody is reading beyond the usual chatter. Also Smith also kept trying to remind people that the purpose of setting up a business is to serve customers not just to line pockets of the owners. So as Karl Marx said it had the seeds of its own destruction a long time ago.
It look as if that were playing out in the depressions of 1919 and the Great Depression. But It was the New Deal
and the war boom that prevented a final crisis; the government intervention that the Right Wing hates.
The best that can be said is "Boys, no one can keep on saving you from yourselves; not Obama, not a Nobel Prize winner, not a militia with Uzzi's" The one great truth that is shared by real Conservatism and Liberalism is that no one can save you from yourself, not even Jesus. You and I are responsible for our own salvation.

Friday October 9, 2009, 9:42 am
What was I just saying about the Nobel peace prize? President Obama has beaten him to it! Congratulations Mr. President!

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/europe/10/09/nobel.peace.prize/index.html

Friday October 9, 2009, 3:26 pm
Various wise ones (among the Left) said he should have refused or turned it down. Evidently he had not been notified of his nomination or anything and he was wakened from sleep with the announcement. How fast do you think a man who can think fast think when being wakened. Should the committee have used the red telephone?

Friday October 9, 2009, 3:31 pm
Perhaps they should have just used their common sense Frank, but hey why break with the tradition of giving it to warmongers, hypocrits and the truly undeserving?

Friday October 9, 2009, 3:33 pm
The president did more to unite the muslim world with us in one hour during his Cairo speech than most world leaders achieved in a lifetime. Lebanon voted Hesbalah out after the Cairo speech. Just three weeks ago, Obama got all world leaders to agree to reduce and eliminate nukes. JOB WELL DONE.

PRIZE EARNED (i have never seen such spiteful sorority brats in my life)

Friday October 9, 2009, 3:48 pm
So far Dragonfly none of those things have happened. All Obama is doing is continuing the policies of his predecessors. I shall believe it when America begins to disarm and anyone who thinks that Islam suddenly loves the US because they now have a black president who's middle name is Hussein and who has made some concilliatory speeches while still waging two wars in Islamic countries and contemplating a third is living in a fool's paradise.

Friday October 9, 2009, 3:52 pm
John R.

Well, I hope you never ever get what you want either, and I hope you never enjoy a triumphant moment because someone comes along and poops on it.

YOU AND YOUR LITTLE DOG TOO!

Friday October 9, 2009, 4:04 pm
Dragonfly, I'm not raining on your parade. There is no triumph here; they also gave it to Arafat and Rabin, Begin and Sadat, Kissenger etc. the prize is truly devalued. The only truly deserving recent winners have been The Dalai Lama, Desmond Tutu and Nelson Mandela.
I have been listening to this sort of crap from politicians for decades and apart from his eloquent rhetoric I hear nothing different from Obama.

Friday October 9, 2009, 4:15 pm
Obama was enough to wake me from a deep political sleep of almost 30 years. And you say you don't see anything? I say you have got to be blind.

Friday October 9, 2009, 4:25 pm
WELL FOLKS MICHAEL MOORE WILL BE On cough, cough gagagag hanity tonight at 9 pm est. on pox, oops flox.

Friday October 9, 2009, 4:30 pm
Well I have been politically wide awake since I was 14 years old and no I see nothing new; I too had high hopes for Obama. Unfortunately it's just a case of meet the new boss just like the old boss.
I don't think it's his fault, I think he'd like to make changes, it's just that one man can't shift the US from it's course of consumerism and greed there is too much money at stake and that trumphs race, religion etc.
I mean he can't even close Gitmo never mind stop the wars and let's not mention healthcare, but you can still buy a .357 at the corner gunstore. You might as well be disillusioned early; hope is a luxury the average American can't afford.

Friday October 9, 2009, 4:31 pm
Just watch Michael Moore's work Dragonfly and then tell me I'm wrong.

Friday October 9, 2009, 4:37 pm
Okay, now we have a genuine discussion going. Cool! :) You have so far met my "non troll" criteria, but I wasn't sure. Okay, I say you are being way too impatient. Look back at the other presidents. Be honest. Can you really say that Obama has not accomplished more than they have in his first 9 months?

I too, am impatient. I didn't realize we were gonna have to fight tooth and nail for everything we voted for last November. I'm dissappointed with Eric Holder, I'm dissappointed with Rahm Emanuel, and I'm dissapointed with Geithner and how NO regulations have been put in place.

I'm mad at wall street for holding my grandma's IRA hostage for bailout money. But mad at Obama, I am not. He's our only last hope for a real advocate for the people.

When will we stand together and support him so he can support us and get the agenda through that we so badly need to right this country's mess.

Friday October 9, 2009, 5:07 pm
Clearly, you both have great points to make. Dragon, I too was in that sound political sleep, only for 40 years. Obama is what finally woke me up. Of course, I also have another motivation. My Profile explains the other wake up call I received. Like you, I understand that if this country is going to have any chance whatsoever, Barrack Obama will have to be the catalyst for the change that is needed.

John, I too am upset about some of the Presidents' decisions, and his speed in dealing with certain problems. But then, look at the ferocity of the opposition and the severity of the condition he inherited.

We need to all of us, keep holding this Presidents' feet to the fire. But by condemning him at this point for non action, is feeding into the rightwing's game plan. YES! Michael Moore spills it all out there for everyone's disgust. There is some serious shit wrong in this country, no frickin' doubt! But for Obama to succeed he'll need the country's support. Let's hold his feet to the fire, not hold a gun to his head. The rightwing has got that covered.

Friday October 9, 2009, 6:30 pm
Today it was in the news that a number of military leaders have come forward and offered the Administration assistance on getting rid of Gitmo and to renew the policy of staying with the Genava convention, on interrogation because after all our military is the visible manifestation of America conrtary to the CIA's invisible manifestation.of America. At least the President made himself the lightning conductor in these matters in contrat to Bush who covered himself with insulators. With regard to the world of Islam what we desparately need is is the unity of of the Muslims in seeing that neither al Quaida nor the Taliban are any good to anybody except themselves.The basic strategy in regard to Taliban it seems is the main job of our forces and NATO is to promote security but avoiding being targets either in insurgency or politically.
We should also utilize the fact that the Iranians are not Arabs but Persians which is a matter of pride. Perhaps the best encouragement to the Opposition is that we are seen to enhance the principles of Democracy here. Get that "Free choice for Labor" act passed. Get writing to people every day on universal coverage for health care. Forget about tax cuts for the top one percent but subsidize technology research and development. These are some proposals that one can work on instead of stewing in our own juice.
Your friendly neighborhood wonk gives this advice for nothing.

Wednesday October 14, 2009, 11:27 am
"Forget about tax cuts for the top one percent but subsidize technology research and development. These are some proposals that one can work on instead of stewing in our own juice. Your friendly neighborhood wonk gives this advice for nothing."

Well said, Frank. We need more wise wonks like you! :)

Perspectives on capitalism...Larry King interview with Michael Moore

Wednesday October 14, 2009, 11:42 am
For a look at the dangerous lengths the far right will go to carry out their agenda and gain control to keep ripping off the people, please visit this link...

Organizing to Stop Far Right Violence

Keep in mind, the propaganda machine for the far right wing is Fox News, which the White House has now declared as 'a wing of the Republican Party'. Fox News can no longer be considered an 'objective news organization.'

White House Communications Director Anita Dunn slammed Fox News in an interview on CNN with Howie Kurtz this morning, saying that Fox News "is more a wing of the Republican Party" than an objective news organization.

"The reality of it is that Fox News often operates almost as either the research arm or the communications arm of the Republican Party," Dunn said.

"Let's not pretend they're a news network the way CNN is," Dunn said.

And this: "They're widely viewed as part of the Republican Party. Take their talking points, put 'em on the air."

As an example, Dunn pointed to last fall, when the United States was grappling with a financial crisis, two wars and a historic election.

"If you were a Fox News viewer in the fall election, what you would have seen would have been that the biggest stories and the biggest threats facing America were a guy named Bill Ayers and something called ACORN."

-----------------

As my friend, Robert S said...

"They [Fox News] do a highly partisan almost fact free parody of news which is unparalleled in its efforts to deliver uncompromising right wing talking points. Fox knows just who their audience is, (right wing), and it gives that audience almost comically... exactly and exclusively what these right wingers want to hear, which fits quite nicely into what they already believe, i.e., Liberal bad, conservative good. I say almost comically because the down side of the "news" masquerade is that being spoon fed only what one likes to hear, which conforms to what one thinks one knows already, does not challenge or enlighten with anything new or contradictory that might challenge or enlighten a perspective, leaving its audience essentially as ignorant when done watching as they were when they began watching. So if your interested in learning what its like to be indoctrinated into a cult, check them out by all means. Cool aid is cool aid, no matter who serves it. Maybe y'all will like it."

Capitalism = Bush = Disastrous Policy = GOP = Fox News = Corruption

Friday October 30, 2009, 1:16 am
Sniff sniff...I smell a Hardy tea-bagger rat just trolling away the time....:) FYI: CH Hardy, you need to get your facts straight...anyone unemployed in places where his doc was/is playing got/gets in free to see the doc....oh that's right you rightwingnuts don't like the truth, you and yer chums would rather sling mud and cause a ruckus than accept that people you despise have as much right to express their beliefs as you!

Friday October 30, 2009, 1:30 am
To MJ M:

Who else has the guts? Answer: RALPH NADER who was speaking truth to power long before Micheal Moore was born. I have a beef against Moore for the way he and every other gutless leftists and progressives etc., treated Nade by stabbing him in the back.... :C

Friday October 30, 2009, 1:56 am
So true, HS. Ralph was a trailblazer. It's a real shame that the man's legacy will be stained with that 'spoiler' title, and remembered as the man who single handedly got Bush 'elected'. Real pity.

Friday October 30, 2009, 5:59 am
Was it Goldman or Sachs who just recently said that we need a little inequality to bring prosperity? LOL

Friday October 30, 2009, 3:54 pm
Haudeno ~ Yes, too bad Nader didn't have a better plan because he is on top of this mess.

Frank ~ Goldman Sachs said it right...the crooks. LOL

Friday October 30, 2009, 3:58 pm
MJ M:

Nader had nothing to do with electing Bush...Don't you know how to recognize BS when you see it? He was blamed by both the Left and the Right partisan camps.For their part the Dumbos and Progressives (including Moore, Howard Zinn and all the leading lights blamed him because he was running without their "blessing" i.e, they already had their handpicked star in mind (OBummer)....
The Right blamed Nader because they were scared sh__less of him; they knew Nader took no prisoners and played no political ball...they knew he'd really do what he'd promised in his campaign speeches heavily (tax the rich, universal health coverage for all, NO FOREIGN WARS, clean up the environment, decent student aid, end poverty, end racism, NO BAILOUTS FOR WEALTHY SCUMBAGS), et al

Unknown to most US citizens, both sides held covert meetings in which everyone agreed that Nader had to be marginalized (like Cynthia McKinney and Den(n)is Kucinich); all three were a threat to the CABAL and their sycophantic masses...because, like Nader they would've carried out their threats to clean up government, sever the military-industrial-media-arms manufacturing complex ties that have ripped this country asunder.

FYI:You should know better than to print such a proven falsehood; as has already been proven ad nauseum by Greg Palast and others, Bush was never "elected" he was installed 2X due to dirty vote thefts, caging, et al...

Friday October 30, 2009, 4:12 pm
Marion:

I swear by all that is holy and true, Nader did have a better plan (unlike the sycophantic wall streeter OBummer and the capitalist lackey Bush before him, both of whom were clueless and planless except for empty slogans).

Nader didn't have the huge piles of cash or the needed exposure to get his message out (unlike Obummer and the mentally deranged Bush who had no problems getting their hands on the moolah and endless media exposure 24/7)

Friday October 30, 2009, 4:15 pm

(Bowing in gratitude)

Thank you very much, Haudeno!

Friday October 30, 2009, 4:17 pm
Sure I can recognize BS, H S. I never said I was of the same opinion. Just said it was a shame that's how he'll be remembered.

Nader and Moore in 2016! No, no...Grayson and Nader in 2016...maybe 2012 if the Pres doesn't get crackin'.

Sunday November 1, 2009, 5:20 pm
I AM JUST CURIOUS..... HOW MANY OF YOU HAVE ACTUALLY READ -ATLAS SHRUGGED (AYN RAND) SECOND BEST SELLING BOOK EVER NEXT TO THE BIBLE...SERIOUSLY... WANT A GOOD SCARY READ.. PICK IT UP. OR USE OUR AWESOME SYSTEM ===THE LIBRARY.

Sunday November 1, 2009, 5:35 pm
I n response to curious Kristen I read and wrote a review"Atlas Shrugged" for the aunt of a friend of mine.

In a nutshell the later leaders of the Rand sect leave out of their scripture what they don't admit in a manner similar to the Religious doings with the Bible. in short it was the owners(board) playing with money that wrecked the railroad in the first place. Likewise what happened to the alloy plant.So after all what else is new? I was really frightened by one of the sect who wanted to nuke the whole mid-East. (I also happened to mention that the two metals of the fictitious alloy cannot be alloyed.)

Sunday November 1, 2009, 6:56 pm
HEY FRANK L. THANKS FOR THE UPDATE... LAST TIME I READ THIS ONE WAS ABOUT 10 YEARS AGO. I HONESTLY FELT THAT IT ABSOLUTLY REALISTICLYFOLLOWS TODAY AS IT IS. NOT LOOKING FOR A FIGHT OR WELL. ANYTHING, JUST DOING AS YOU ARE VIOCING STATING MY PERSON THOUGHTS, BUT AS IT SEEMS YOU'VE ALREADY READ IT, I THINK OTHERS SHOULD TOO. I ALSO REALIZE MOSTPEOPLE YEARS AGO KNEW "AYN" WAS AN ATHEIST, BUT MANY DO NOT, AND AGAIN I REPEAT SECOND BEST SELLER IN THE ENTIRE WORLD.. YES FRANK I FIND THAT SCARY, BUT ITS OUT THERE AND PEOPLE HAVE CHOICES...SO, I GUESS THATS WHAT AMERICA IS ABOUT.. OR AT LEAST SHOULD BE...

Sunday November 1, 2009, 7:08 pm
SORRY FOR MISSPELLED WORDS FRANK... IVE GOT SOME NASTY ILLNESS' AND ONE HAPPENS TO BE RA. SORRY. FINGERS DO NOT ALWAYS HIT CORRECTLY... NOT A STUPID WOMAN, JUST HAVE HEALTH PROBLEMS... OH YEAH.. I STILL ADORE AND LOVE AND BELIEVE IN=====MICHAEL MOORE..

Monday November 2, 2009, 4:38 am
Dear Kristin: You're too critical of yourself. I don't see any misspelling. But I relate to your problem. The computer
keyboard keeps printing multiple vowels especially eeeeeeeeeeeeee's. Also I'm having to wait 2 months to see about a tremor because it is not life threatening but it interferes with my eating. But think positive. Think Pangloss
Eating slow and food missing mouth helps keep weight down.

Monday November 2, 2009, 9:12 am
The hardest thing to explain is the glaringly evident which everybody had decided not to see.
Ayn Rand

The truth is not for all men, but only for those who seek it.
Ayn Rand

Kristen ~ I haven't read Atlas Shrugged yet, but plan to do so. Saw the above quotes and know I will appreciate Rand. Thanks.

Sorry you and Frank suffer from RA. I have OA (osteoarthritis). Avoiding sugar in any form has helped me immensely. Fresh veggies, fruits and avoiding meat has helped control this awful ailment.

I like the "eating slowly" part, Frank!

Monday November 2, 2009, 9:20 pm
Until we realize that our system itself is untenable, we'll be doomed to economic meltdowns.

Tuesday November 3, 2009, 9:22 am
This was a great interview, Marshall. Here's some highlights that stand out:

"Black Tuesday, as the crash was called, saw already-shaky shares plunge twenty-five percent in just two days. Fortunes were wiped out in minutes and small investors saw dreams of prosperity, even security, disappear. As the weeks and months went by, the nation slipped deeper and deeper into the abyss of the Great Depression."

Galbraith is right: we're in an extremely dangerous period...

"...everybody can see that a few, very small number of people have come out of this. And they cannot see how this is bringing any benefit to their own lives. It's not saving their houses. It's not providing them with jobs."

Why can the Great Depression happen again?

"Because people forget, and because when the system succeeds, then you build up prosperous institutions and they start lobbying. They say, "Everything's fine. Things are going well." And they start lobbying for a relaxation of the rules. So you have-- it's never going to go away. But you want to have these 20, 30, 40-year periods when you have relatively stable growth."

BILL MOYERS: I want to show you something that resonates with what you're saying. I've been looking at it for a while now. It's an excerpt from a speech that Franklin Delano Roosevelt made in 1944, in the midst of war, a speech that not many people have seen, but take a look at this excerpt.

FRANKLIN DELANO ROOSEVELT: In our day certain economic truths have become accepted as self-evident. A second Bill of Rights under which a new basis of security and prosperity can be established for all regardless of station, or race, or creed. Among these are: The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines throughout the nation. The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation. The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living. The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom, freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad.

The right of every family to a decent home. The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health. The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident and unemployment. The right to a good education. All of these rights spell security. And after this war is won we must be prepared to move forward in the implementation of these rights to new goals of human happiness and well-being. For unless there is security here at home there cannot be lasting peace in the world.

BILL MOYERS: What do you think about, listening to that?

JAMES GALBRAITH: It's wonderful. It's splendid. It defined what we should have achieved in the last 50 years and in many ways, what we still need to achieve.

It's a test. It's a test for the country as a whole, as to whether we have the capacity to state and pursue a truly public purpose. We've come through a generation where we have really denied the existence of a common good or a public purpose. And I think we've recognized that that path leads to collapse, the collapse that we've seen. And that the way out is to somehow reestablish for ourselves this vision of what we really could be.

Tuesday November 3, 2009, 9:40 am
My take on NOT repeating the same mistakes is this:

> The Federal Reserve System is an illegal organization that was created by the same banking crooks who caused the Great Depression. This system must be eliminated.

> Recognize that Greenspan, Geithner, Bernanke, Paulson and others are key to breaking the system and should be considered criminals. They must be removed from running our economy.

> We need a new economic system that is not corrupt.

> We need a new political government system with rules that prevent our leaders from being corrupt. Just about every single member of Congress needs to be thrown out.

> Prosecute as criminals the Bush Administration so this won't ever happen again. We must make an example out of them. By Cheney, Bush, Rumsfeld and the whole crooked regime running loose laughing at us on TV means this will happen again. Guaranteed.

> Eliminate the lobby system.

> Eliminate monopolies.

> Eliminate the ability for government officials to have sideline incomes.

Capitalism was an experiment that has failed for over 95% of Americans. We must face the fact that we've been robbed for many years to come. We must lower our expectations and learn to live modestly. We must come to terms with our failed belief system that is hypocritical and immoral, and has allowed us to blindly believe we could achieve the dream of the rich if we pray hard enough for it. Getting back to basics, caring about humanity, our communities, the environment and working...REALLY WORKING...for our keep...instead of building false pyramid schemes in the sky...with reduced pay for a day's work, will get us back eventually.

Caps on CEO salaries as a certain percentage of the employees' wages, severely cutting money for the war machine, building an infrastructure (jobs), refitting all homes and buildings for solar and wind energy (more jobs), putting a clamp on Wall Street (I'd like to eliminate it altogether), are just the beginning of a new system that is sustainable.

Wednesday November 4, 2009, 11:27 pm
MJ M:

Thanks for enlightening me...mucho appreciate :)

Wednesday November 4, 2009, 11:44 pm
Kristen B.:

I had the misfortune to read the "darling of rightwingnuts" Rand's book years ago for HS POD class. I wrote a scathing report on both her and her atrocious book. Rand was merely a shill and her book was a propaganda piece for the Chicago School's Economic "Free" Market Theory that, as most folks now recognize, is a load of putrid baloney that destroyed numerous nation's economies and their financial infrastructures!

Thursday November 5, 2009, 2:16 am
Want to Save Our Economy from Almighty Greed? Here's 10 Targets That Stand in the Way

Thursday November 5, 2009, 7:04 am
Haudeno...Thanks for the heads up on Rand. I still need to read it or look into it myself to understand.

Marshall...These targets make sense. It also makes sense for Congress to stand in the way of holding the banks accountable...they stand to continue making millions! I still believe Obama would not have been endorsed by the elites unless he agreed to leave them alone up to a point. In other words, let us still control the economic system for the most part, and we will let you fix a portion of it.

To fix potholes on only one side of the street still leaves the other half to ruin cars. We don't want a half-a$$ patch job on our economy...we want it fixed! Warren knows what to do...this is also why the right-wing hates Pelosi.

Thursday November 5, 2009, 7:26 am
Marion, I love the avatar BTW.

I did read Atlas Shrugged years ago. It is just a silly book with a silly unrealisitic premise. In the best of all possible worlds, it is not a bad idea but it is just ridiculously simplistic.

Maybe she was a shill for the Chicago School but she was actually from Russia. Some people have said that she was writing about Russia. On the other hand, if you read her book, you could also interpret it completely differently. She could just have been writing about the ineptness of our corporate America.

Thursday November 5, 2009, 7:29 am
Nancy ~ Thanks for your assessment of the book and backing up some of what Haudeno has said. I will take my time getting to the book. Also, thanks for the avatar compliment!

Thursday November 5, 2009, 7:46 am
It is worth reading, I didn't mean to say that you shouldn't. I have a friend (originally from southern CA) who now lives in Austria. She and I keep meaning to have a long-distance re-read and discuss group.