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Palestinian Letter to Israel Lays Out Conditions for Peace Talks


World  (tags: world, middle-east, israel, news, politics, talks, palestine, 'CIVILLIBERTIES!', society, government )

Cal
- 827 days ago - latimesblogs.latimes.com
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu met briefly Tuesday with Palestinian Authority leaders to accept a formal letter outlining their demands for restarting stalled peace talks.



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Comments

Eli T. (90)
Wednesday April 18, 2012, 1:31 am
" letter outlining their demands ". I really think this says it all. "THEIR DEMANDS". You'd think they we doing the giving and not the receiving. The only thing they have lost is opportunities for a life, of which they should blame themselves. Maybe it is about time they took an honest look at themselves before demanding. As an Israeli, I am bored of hearing their demands and daily threats of violence. They should also take the time to note that not only Muslims lived in these lands. Bedouin, Jekessim, Druse, Samaritans, AND JEWS, all lived here before their occupation of our lands. The "Arabian" lands are Saudi Arabia. The rest is a result of their conquests. If Israel gives them 1cm, it will be a gift and not a return of lands. They can create any BS they choose, but the true facts lie in the lands themselves. In books thousands of years old. Non of which mention an Arab Palestinian people. The West has sold it's moral values for oil and the Jews and Israel are paying the price. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLypbbijk2I
 

Michael Dewey (1039)
Wednesday April 18, 2012, 2:53 am
Luke 21:20 is getting closer all of the time, when Jerusalem will end up surrounded by armies for her leaders desolation to be at hand. From seeing their fruits, they are the same kind of people who hung their last king on a tree 2000 years ago.
 

pam w. (191)
Wednesday April 18, 2012, 3:06 am
Does anyone REALLY believe these people WANT peace?
 

Eli T. (90)
Wednesday April 18, 2012, 5:38 am
The Palestinians have created a business receiving aid. Why would they want peace?
Michael don't you think the JEWWWWWWWWWs keeeeeeeeeeeld JC is getting a little old? We choose our kings and not some dictator
 

Jennifer C. (172)
Wednesday April 18, 2012, 5:48 am
Thanks.
 

Don Saunders (151)
Wednesday April 18, 2012, 9:19 am
let peace reign worldwide
 

Michael Dewey (1039)
Wednesday April 18, 2012, 9:29 am
Eli, what is getting old is the Christians American Church still supporting Israel, who still does not know it killed their last king. America's Church, is about the only reason why Luke 21:20 has not yet happened, for Israel's crimes with the $ Billions will send them in Weapons, is evident to any person who still has a conscience. I think the AIPAC running DC is getting very old.

What king do you have sitting on the throne of David? Nutten Yahoo? Israel hasn't had a king since before the Lamb.
 

Alexander Werner (53)
Wednesday April 18, 2012, 10:59 am
Michael, how on Earth could you think AIPAC running anything on DC? Obama bowed to Saudi King, and sent Nataniyahu home right before dinner.

Obama canceled our Canadian pipeline to keep Saudi influence in place. Obama let ALL secular ME dictators to be replaced with Islamists, Saudi style.

And yet you talk about AIPAC and not about Saudi lobby?

You counted 3B in US aid, given to Israel? Do you know that Saudis get exactly the same equipment Israel buys? That means, that this is Buy One - Get One Free schema, and more Israel gets is better for US economy, because Saudis pay for both.

Did you count 4.5 Billion/year given to Pakistan? 1 Billion to Jordan? About 20-25 Billions to Arab and Islamic states, altogether? What exactly is US getting from these states, except for burnt US flags, oil and import of Jihadists?

Israel should also give Arabs "a formal letter outlining their demands for restarting stalled peace talks." and stop this nonsense. Palestinian Arabs, the World Best Paid Refugees, get 1 BILLION BUCKS from UNWRA - devoted exclusively for them - and another close to a BILLION from other aid sources. They will lost this great and easy income should peace happen.

They are not idiots and simply cannot afford to lose such cash. At the mean time read more about Luka or whatever else you got to read.



 

Eli T. (90)
Wednesday April 18, 2012, 11:15 am
Michael, I can see you know nothing about Israel or you would realise how foolish such comments are. Personally I do not waste my time educating the followers of proganda and hate mongers. You word are old as Nazism and the likes, but for the information of the more informed and enlightened, Israel and the Jews are around for 5000 years of which only conquerors of our lands seperated us from the lands. Records of which can be found in the very Bible that those American Christians and many other Christians hold sacred, or do you mock their faith as well as insult mine.
You will also find the Koran mentions Israel 48 times yet mentions NO other nation even once, but such a knowledgable person as yourself is sure to know that
 

Michael Dewey (1039)
Wednesday April 18, 2012, 11:21 am
Hey lets get a world court to seat on Operation Cast Lead. There were very possible war crimes on both sides. The U.N. made an honest mistake giving that land to Israel. But they went in like they were still living in the days of Joshua and drove people from there Homes. Israel was suppose to live by the Declaration of Human Rights and has failed miserably.

Those Zionist are still looking for superman to come flying out of the sky, as 2000 years ago. Just as the Christian American Church is too, who are the only people standing in the way of Luke 21:20 being fulfilled, with Jerusalem surrounded by armies for her leaders' desolation to be at hand. They would not know the deeds of Abraham had someone done it them for them. If Israel would admit that they killed their last king, there is a chance they may bring forth fruits of repenting, and I do not mean empty lies. Like Nutten Yahoo says Israel will not be the first in the Middle East to introduce Nuclear Weapons, while being the only on there to have them!

And yes, the AIPAC is the most powerful Lobby in DC. Its servants or both left and right. That is common knowledge we I come from.
 

Alexandra R. (329)
Wednesday April 18, 2012, 11:23 am
I quote from this article: "a formal letter outlining their demands for restarting stalled peace talks"

LoL ..! The irony : a whole long list of demands that MUST be met BEFORE they would even consider restarting 'peace negotiations' ..

 

Robert O. (12)
Wednesday April 18, 2012, 11:32 am
Thanks.
 

Michael Dewey (1039)
Wednesday April 18, 2012, 11:34 am
Eli, name me the last King to sit on David's Throne? Good luck.

As I said at the top Luke 21:20 is closer than its ever been.

Am no great fan of things like Spain coming to the Promised Land (in South America) and horse back killing 5000 Incas, and then have the Church trample the good news to them. Just as what happened in The Northern Promised land. And just what you are doing now to Palestine

You Zionist can not face facts of your crimes, with out calling, who ever that brings them up anti-septic. And I mean anti-septic..
 

Eli T. (90)
Wednesday April 18, 2012, 12:03 pm
Tut Tut Michael, your showing your colours. Yes we are"Zionists". Zion is another me for Jerusalem.
After 8000 rockets rained down on Southern Israel OMG we decided to defend ourselves and did the crimminal act of stopping those rockets. Yes we killed those that fired them. Yes we sinfully protected the civilians from war crimes of which you seem to think we should live under. Michael, to have any success in spreading your unrully hate of the Zionist, I recommend you hide your bias and lack of knowledge.
Cast lead was the result of years of terror and rockets raining down on civillian populations. Something no other country would have accepted for even a day.
 

Michael Dewey (1039)
Wednesday April 18, 2012, 12:17 pm
More people died of peanut poisoning in Israel, than any of those rockets. White Phosphorous on Civilians is a war crime. I've seen it Eli! Could mention all the Hospitals you destroyed, but you will just tell be an Army with tanks was out gunned, and had to kill kill kill. Palestine even a State so how can they commit a war crime? Oh, but I want a World Court to sit on Cast Lead, for both sides.

Oh, and then America goes to that same World Court also.We destroyed Iraq's Civilians infrastructure. Does that make me anti-American?

Oh my understanding of the deeds of Abraham, is that all who do his deeds, not just empty words, are his children. I do not see them deeds from Israel's leaders.
 

Michael Dewey (1039)
Wednesday April 18, 2012, 12:19 pm
Eli, can you name the last King that sat on the Throne of David? Somewhere something went wrong with that covenant.
 

Eli T. (90)
Wednesday April 18, 2012, 12:32 pm
Michael I guess you never heard of Solomon the son of King david,or any of the many kings after him, but here is a list of the MANY kings of Israel and Judah. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kings_of_Judah
David ·Solomon ·Rehoboam etc

David

1000–962

1010–970

1010–970

דוד בן-ישי מלך ישראל
David ben Yishai,
Melekh Ysra’el

Reigned over Judah for 7 years in Hebron, then Israel & Judah in Jerusalem for 33 years; 40 years in total.
Death: natural causes

Solomon

962–922

970–931

971–931

שלמה בן-דוד מלך ישראל
Shelomoh ben David,
Melekh Ysra’el

Reigned over Israel & Judah in Jerusalem for 40 years.
Death: natural causes
Son of David by Bathsheba, his rights of succession were disputed by his older half-brother Adonijah

Rehoboam
Reigned for 17 years.

932–915

931–913

931–914

931–915

רחבעם בן-שלמה מלך יהודה
Rehav’am ben Shlomoh,
Melekh Yehudah

Death: natural causes

Abijah
Reigned for 3 years.

915–913

913–911

914–911

915–912

אבים בן-רחבעם מלך יהודה
’Aviyam ben Rehav’am,
Melekh Yehudah

Death: natural causes

Asa
Reigned for 41 years.

913–873

911–870

911–870

912–871

אסא בן-אבים מלך יהודה
’Asa ben ’Aviyam,
Melekh Yehudah
Death: severe foot disease



Jehoshaphat
Reigned for 25 years.

873–849

870–848

870–845

871–849

יהושפט בן-אסא מלך יהודה
Yehoshafat ben ’Asa,
Melekh Yahudah
Death: natural causes



Jehoram
Reigned for 8 years.

849–842

848–841

851–843

849–842

יהורם בן-יהושפט מלך יהודה
Yehoram ben Yehoshafat,
Melekh Yahudah
Death: severe stomach disease



Ahaziah
Reigned for 1 year.

842–842

841–841

אחזיהו בן-יהורם מלך יהודה
’Ahazyahu ben Yehoram,
Melekh Yehudah
Death: killed by Jehu, who usurped the throne of Israel



Athaliah
(Queen)
Reigned for 6 years.


842–835

841–835

עתליה בת-עמרי מלכת יהודה
‘Atalyah bat ‘Omri,
Malkat Yehudah

Death: killed by the troops assigned by Jehoiada the Priest to protect Joash.
Queen Mother, widow of Jehoram and mother of Ahaziah



Jehoash
Reigned for 40 years.

837–800

835–796

842–802

841–796

יהואש בן-אחזיהו מלך יהודה
Yehoash ben ’Ahazyahu,
Melekh Yehudah

Death: killed by his officials namely: Zabad, son of Shimeath, a Moabite Woman, and Jehozabad, son of Shimrith, a Moabite Woman.



Amaziah
Reigned for 29 years.

800–783

796–767

805–776

796–776

אמציה בן-יהואש מלך יהודה
’Amatzyah ben Yehoash,
Melekh Yehudah

Death: killed in Lachish by the men sent by his officials who conspired against him.

Uzziah
(Azariah)
Reigned for 52 years.

783–742

767–740

788–736

776–736

עזיה בן-אמציה מלך יהודה
‘Uziyah ben ’Amatzyah,
Melekh Yehudah
עזריה בן-אמציה מלך יהודה
‘Azaryah ben ’Amatzyah,
Melekh Yehudah

Death: Tzaraas
George Syncellus wrote that the First Olympiad took place in Uzziah's 48th regnal year.



Jotham
Reigned for 16 years.

742–735

740–732

758–742

750–735/30

יותם בן-עזיה מלך יהודה
Yotam ben ‘Uziyah,
Melekh Yehudah

Death: natural causes



Ahaz
Reigned for 16 years.

735–715

732–716

742–726

735/31–715

אחז בן-יותם מלך יהודה
’Ahaz ben Yotam,
Melekh Yehudah

Death: natural causes
The Assyrian king Tiglath-Pileser III records he received tribute from Ahaz; compare 2 Kings 16:7-9



Hezekiah
Reigned for 29 years.

715–687

716–687

726–697

715–687

חזקיה בן-אחז מלך יהודה
Hizqiyah ben ’Ahaz,
Melekh Yehudah

Death: Natural Causes
Contemporary with Sennacherib of Assyria and Merodach-Baladan of Babylon.



Manasseh
Reigned for 55 years.

687–642

687–643

697–642

687–642

מנשה בן-חזקיה מלך יהודה
Menasheh ben Hizqiyah,
Melekh Yehudah

Death: natural causes
Mentioned in Assyrian records as a contemporary of Esarhaddon



Amon
Reigned for 2 years.

642–640

643–641

642–640

642–640

אמון בן-מנשה מלך יהודה
’Amon ben Menasheh,
Melekh Yehudah

Death: killed by his officials, which were killed later on by the people of Judah.



Josiah
Reigned for 31 years.

640–609

641–609

640–609

640–609

יאשיהו בן-אמון מלך יהודה
Yo’shiyahu ben ’Amon,
Melekh Yehudah

Death: shot by archers during the battle against Neco of Egypt. He died upon his arrival on Jerusalem.



Jehoahaz
Reigned for 3 months.

609


יהואחז בן-יאשיהו מלך יהודה
Yeho’ahaz ben Yo’shiyahu,
Melekh Yehudah

Death: Neco, king of Egypt, dethroned him and was replaced by his brother, Eliakim. Carried off to Egypt, where he died.



Jehoiakim
Reigned for 11 years.

609–598

יהויקים בן-יאשיהו מלך יהודה
Yehoyaqim ben Yo’shiyahu,
Melekh Yehudah

Death: Natural Causes
The Battle of Carchemish occurred in the fourth year of his reign (Jeremiah 46:2)



Jehoiachin
(Jeconiah)
Reigned for 3 months & 10 days.

598–597

יהויכין בן-יהויקים מלך יהודה
Yehoyakhin ben Yehoyaqim,
Melekh Yehudah
יכניהו בן-יהויקים מלך יהודה
Yekhonyahu ben Yehoyaqim, Melekh Yehudah

Death: King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon sent for him and brought him to Babylon, where he lived and died.
Jerusalem was captured by the Babylonians and Jehoiachin deposed on 16 March, 597 BC. Called Jeconiah in Jeremiah and Esther



Zedekiah
Reigned for 11 years.

597–587

597–586


צדקיהו בן-יהויכין מלך יהודה
Tzidqiyahu ben Yo’shiyahu,
Melekh Yehudah

Death: unknown.
His reign saw the second rebellion against Nebuchadnezzar (588-586 BC). Jerusalem was captured after a lengthy siege, the temple burnt, Zedekiah blinded and taken into exile, and Judah reduced to a province.



Israel (Northern Kingdom)
Jeroboam I ·Nadab ·Baasha ·Elah ·Zimri ·Omri ·Ahab (and Jezebel) ·Ahaziah ·Jehoram ·Jehu ·Jehoahaz ·Jehoash ·Jeroboam II ·Zechariah ·Shallum ·Menahem ·Pekahiah ·Pekah ·Hoshea

Judah (Southern Kingdom)
Rehoboam ·Abijam ·Asa ·Jehoshaphat ·Jehoram ·Ahaziah ·Athaliah ·Jehoash ·Amaziah ·Uzziah ·Jotham ·Ahaz ·Hezekiah ·Manasseh ·Amon ·Josiah ·Jehoahaz ·Jehoiakim ·Jeconiah ·Zedekiah

Hasmonean dynasty
Simon Maccabaeus ·John Hyrcanus ·Aristobulus I ·Alexander Jannaeus ·Salome Alexandra ·Hyrcanus II ·Aristobulus II ·Hyrcanus II ·Antigonus II Mattathias

Herodian dynasty
Antipater the Idumaean ·Herod the Great ·Archelaus ·Antipas ·Philip the Tetrarch ·Salome I ·Agrippa I ·Agrippa II


Now for your home work. Find me 1 Palestinian Arab, Muslim or Christian king in the last 50,000 years. and what currency they used.
 

Marianna Molnar Woods (9)
Wednesday April 18, 2012, 1:19 pm
thanks for sharing
 

Past Member (0)
Wednesday April 18, 2012, 1:26 pm
I see that this thread has has brought out a new crop of repulsive Zionists, some living in the Zionist Entity itself. They are all singing from the Hasbara Handbook - lie and obfuscate, exagerate, pretend they have a right to someone else's land and gloss over the Jew-only colonies in the WB.

Unfortunately for them, the Palestinians aren't going anywhere and the world is finally waking up to this massive Zionist fraud and the cruelty, ethnic cleansing and slow genocide that it has engendered.
 

Cal Mendelsohn (970)
Wednesday April 18, 2012, 2:38 pm
Oh John, it is so good to see you again and you are remarkably consistent in your condemnation of the Jewish people simply for wanting their own state. No one is saying the palestinians are going anywhere either.

The biggest fraud is that the Palestinians have been abandoned by some of their Arab brothers like in Lebanon, where they live as second class citizens in a land where the law restricts them form social and economic advancement.
But that's ok--that's an ARb state,isn't it?
 

Allan Yorkowitz (452)
Wednesday April 18, 2012, 2:48 pm
To Bob A: excellent response.
 

Past Member (0)
Wednesday April 18, 2012, 2:56 pm
There is no "the Jewish people". There are "Jewish people" who have their own real countries and nationalities. Not a single one of them has any right to be in Palestine stealing land and resources from the true inhabitants, oppressing them, killing them, sucking the blood out of them, apart from the descendants of those established there before the Zionist project of colonisation and usurpation began.
 

Past Member (0)
Wednesday April 18, 2012, 3:02 pm
Bob A

"1 BILLION BUCKS from UNWRA - devoted exclusively for them - and another close to a BILLION from other aid sources. They will lost this great and easy income should peace happen. "

And why shouldn't they? They were illegally ethnically cleansed from their homes by the Zionist Entity.

Should the Entity continue receiving its $3 billions a year from the USI? And the soft loans? And the donantions from the Diaspora, which is composed of Jews who wouldn't be seen dead living there in any case.
 

Cal Mendelsohn (970)
Wednesday April 18, 2012, 3:05 pm
John, your knowledge of ancient history is appalling. You might as well throw out the volumes of real evidence of Jewish existence going back mlilennia inPalestine. Is your hatred of Jews so deep to deny the records contained int heOld Testaments, part s of which Islam itself uses? That would like me saying there isn't any Palestinian people, and oh, that's right until recently there really wasn't. That doesn't mean that there weren't occupants of ARab descent on Palestine land--there were. They just chose to call themselves Palestinians after World War 2. You never see British Mandate documents referring to Palestinians before then nor anywhere else because the self-named occupants didn't go by that name. That doesn't mean they didn't have rights of settlement, but don't think that their claim predates Jewish ones--it doesn't!

That's all for my free Mideast history lesson for you for today, John. Have a lovely evening!
 

Past Member (0)
Wednesday April 18, 2012, 3:46 pm
Your "history" is of the false, revisionist version. For a start, the Bible isn't history and nor is the Quran. And whoever sane would accept claims of land ownership based on a religious book? Your lies are on a par of the present loathsome Zionist PM who always tries to make some fake connection with olden times by saying that his name is the same as that of some ancient inscription - while neglecting to tell his credulous audience that his family changed its name to match an old name rather than there being any old connection. He's got nothing to do with the ancient Hebrews, being a Pole whose real name is Mileikowsky.
 

Kate Kenner (202)
Wednesday April 18, 2012, 4:03 pm
Well, I thought Michael Dewy was the only idiot here today-often there is only one at a time- but today there are two! We have John as well. Thankfully there are some intelligent people here as well. To both you putzes There have been Jews for thousands of years and yes, they were in Israel. When WWII was over the Un did indeed make a big mistake, not in giving the land to Jews who did indeed need a homeland but in deciding to just take Palestine and give it to the Jews. The British who were there oddly still favored the Palestinians though and sometimes worked against the new Israelis. They were not interested in having a war but the Palestinians were not happy and rightfully so. The UN had taken their land and given it away. A conflict was started (continued form thousands of years ago?) that has lasted for over 60 years. There were Jews there before then and things were fairly if not perfectly peaceful.

I do think they have gone to far in building settlements and their human rights record is not always the best but I agree with Eli, the two of you know nothing about Israel or about Jews of which I am one. If thinking that Israelis need a home then I am a Zionist as well even if I do think all has not been done the way it should be. I don't know what Luke 21:12 is but get over it. Start looking at something real.

The fact is that the Palestinians and theIsraelis both need a home and sadly they are in the same place. This will go on and on for many reasons. There are stubborn leaders and right wing extremists on both sides who every time there is an inkling of a possibility of peace they blow something up or kill someone and it starts from square one.

I think the two of you need to go read some actual history and not whatever crap you are reading now before you enter a conversation like this again.Honestly the saddest thing about Jesus dying is that it started a religion along with its many offshoots that is filled with hypocrisy and stupid people like John and Michael.
 

Alexander Werner (53)
Wednesday April 18, 2012, 4:19 pm
John, Arabs don't have rights to Palestine. They never had a state of their own, and the whole concept of "Palestinian People" is a recent invention.
 

Past Member (0)
Wednesday April 18, 2012, 4:21 pm
With Kate Kenner, ignorance speaks. This person assumes other people's religions, assumes their level of knowledge and assumes she is right when she is wrong.
 

Past Member (0)
Wednesday April 18, 2012, 5:39 pm
Bob A

There wasn't a Zionist Entity people either (and there won't be one soon anyway). So what's your point?
 

Barb PL (1067)
Wednesday April 18, 2012, 8:14 pm
Noted
 

Colleen L. (2)
Wednesday April 18, 2012, 11:26 pm
I wish that all countries would learn to live together in Peace. Fighting or killing doesn't solve the issues. It just makes more hatred in our World. I wish that I could wave a magic wand and create harmony throughout. But for now all I will continue to do is pray for PEACE. Thanks Cal
 

Cal Mendelsohn (970)
Wednesday April 18, 2012, 11:42 pm
John, your constant and consistent lies are a calculated disinformation campaign seeking to delegitimize anything that doesn't fit in with your myopic view of history as just belonging to the Arabs alone excluding any period where non-Muslims dominated the local culture. Your view of history in Palestine ignores millennia of Jewish and Christian influence and even dominance in ancient and modern day Palestine.
 

Cal Mendelsohn (970)
Thursday April 19, 2012, 12:00 am
John's propaganda handlers must be proud of him for the consistent misrepresentations of Mideast history and the constant lashing out at anyone who correct him, as if just repeating your lies over and over and over and over makes them true, John,. You really are pathetic!
 

Past Member (0)
Thursday April 19, 2012, 1:30 am
Cal M lashes out when presented with facts. I'd like you to refute anything I've said here from a reputable source. And perhaps you'd like to tell us the last time a non-Muslim culture predominated in Palestine and if that culture were a Jewish one, why that should give a European who follows Judaism as a religion the right to live there and leech the resources, land and wealth of another people already there.
 

Stan B. (123)
Thursday April 19, 2012, 2:10 am
Eli T. A big green star on its way to you for showing us all what an ignoramus Michael Dewey is.
Folks, I wouldn't waste too much time on John D. He's the most brain-washed person on Care 2. Right John?
What's the latest score in Syria? 11000 dead? Or is nothing bad happening there? Just a figment of the world's collective imaginations?
As Cal said, " You really are pathetic."
 

Past Member (0)
Thursday April 19, 2012, 2:20 am
I have already referred you to the true figures which appear on the Syrian government's website. These also state the numbers of security personel killed by the "unarmed insurgents" as well as the numbers of externally directed insurgents who have died, as well as the civilians, most of whom were murdered by rebels allied to al Qaeda and died because they were of the wrong religion.

Of course the true figures I mention are a third of the number of the false, rebel-supplied ones.
 

Michael Dewey (1039)
Thursday April 19, 2012, 2:33 am
Eli, I asked you who the last king was to sit on David's Throne? There was not a king in the Lamb's time 2000 years ago. How long had they been without one? Why is that?

Why did Rome destroy the last Temple as the Lamb said would happen?

Israel was given that land by the U.N. under the condition that they live by the U.N. Declaration of Human Rights. They have failed miserably at that. There in lays one of the core problems for their insecurity.

They were told over and over again in the Torah, that they must treat the stranger ass themselves, or the land would vomit them out. How many times did that happen before the Lamb? Too many for me to count.

The Zionist in charge, (Not all Jews.) seem just like the ones 2000 years ago, who were so proud of killing every prophet ever sent to them, and then killed John The Baptist (Of which the Lamb said, ''No man has ever arose from women such as John, and they cut his head off.) and then hung their last king on a tree.

Mark my words, If Israel does not start to treat the stranger as themselves, That Land will vomit them out for the very last time!

I would suggest to for you all, to read Jeremiah 23, for yourselves. You can find the words, ''In the latter days you will clearly understand it in it. So that huge rebuke of Shepard's applies now as then, just as it did 2000 years ago.

Has today's Israel's ever even began to realize that the child in Isaiah 7:14 was the Lamb? Did not the Lamb's time end with a curse? 2000 years without a homeland sure sounds to me as if it did.

But that child in Isaiah 9:6 is not the Lamb. For in from that child's time on, there will be Peace, forever and ever.
 

Eli T. (90)
Thursday April 19, 2012, 3:34 am
Michael, you really are beginning to sound like someone with a chip on his shoulder. Did the Israeli's not let you in?
Though many countries sold their values for a bucket of oil, Israel did not and continues to do what is right. Under the Israeli government alllllllllll faiths are respected, unlike under muslim and Christian rule where Jews were barred from praying at holy sites and were often forced to convert under the threat of death. Infact Israel bends over backwards so far that the most holy site of the temple mount Muslims are free to pray (and desicrate) while it is the Jew that cannot pray there. May I recommend a breif look at your own history and barbarique ethics before attacking Israel and the Joooooooooz
 

Michael Dewey (1039)
Thursday April 19, 2012, 3:50 am
Will you ever answer my question of who was the last king to sit on David's Throne? The last one had to have been before the Lamb, and after whoever was the last one mentioned. Can you tell me who the last one mentioned was? I've been trying to figure that out for a long time. Sometimes it seems as if there was more than one in different areas. Is that the Covenant god made with Israel?

Mark my words, If Israel does not withdraw to the pre-1967 Borders, IT will never have Peace. If it does not stop the settlements and start treating Palestinians as themselves, that land will vomit you out for the very last time. Will Israel ever repent? It has no clue what that is about! It never has, but I sure hope it figures out how to soon.
 

Michael Dewey (1039)
Thursday April 19, 2012, 3:54 am
My dream is to fulfill Isaiah 23:17-18 and 24:21-24 where the kings of the earth are thrown in jail and the profits of this Beautiful Planet are used for food and fine clothing for those who need it. Then we can have that big party of Isaiah 25. That will be when the veil will be lifted from all nations eyes, and they understand what they have never heard before.-That last part about understanding has to be what is meant, at the end of Isaiah 52.

Did Israel ever hold a year of Jubilee, every 7 and 50 years for the forgiveness of debts and slaves? I think not. Which is part of the reason they hung their last king on a tree. That sin is what has caused all of the wars for the last 2000 years. Those 4 horsemen of Revelations have been riding since.
 

Cal Mendelsohn (970)
Thursday April 19, 2012, 3:55 am
John paints the Syrian insurgents with abroad brush as armed thugs, when in fact they range from the pure;ly peaceful to ex-Syrian soldiers who do kill the Syrian Army lobbing shells on them. There are different agendas within the Syrian opposition and you really have to figure out a way of expressing why you would condone the killing of the peaceful protestors to get at the ones killing Syrian soldiers--they are distinctly different!

Good luck on that, John.
 

Michael Dewey (1039)
 

Alexander Werner (53)
Thursday April 19, 2012, 6:03 am
Michael, UN gave lands to 22 Arab states due to some clans good relations with colonial powers in place - like Saudis, Hashemites, etc. These Arab states failed much worse than Israel to "live by the U.N. Declaration of Human Rights." Are you going to disband them all?

On a practical note, Israelis gave to the world lots of inventions and gave aid to many countries. Arab states gave the world only oil and Jihad. Arab states have 10 THOUSAND times more land than Israel.

Why on Earth would one to give Arabs even more land taken from Israel, where the land is scarce anyway.

As for Palestinian Arabs, they are spoiled beggars. They squeeze Western taxpayers at a rate of 1 BILLION bucks a year through UNWRA. This UNWRA is a scam exclusively devoted to Palestinian Arabs. No other nation gets such treatment.

In addition to that, US taxpayers fund Palestinian Arabs close to another BILLION a year.

With such money gone when the peace comes, which idiot would want to make peace? That's why Palestinian Arabs write nonsense letters with various demands instead.

I hope the we taxpayers at some point will explain our disgust for this scam to our governments loud enough for them to hear.
 

John Gregoire (257)
Thursday April 19, 2012, 6:35 am
Israel needs to return to the UN mandated borders and cease the settlement drive. Jerusalem must become and international city under UN mandate. The US must cease all foregn aid to Israel. Then, we have a chance at peace in the region.
 

Eli T. (90)
Thursday April 19, 2012, 9:30 am
Mandated boarders John???????? It seems you also have very little knowledge but love to blurt out all insanities that come to mind. There were "armistices lines". NOT boarders. Please read UN resolution 242 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_Resolution_242
About a year ago or so Israel offered a land swap. The Palestinian territories would include Um-el-fahem a city of over 40,000 Muslims in exchange for a Jewish settlement. The Arabs rioted at the thought of the idea that they would fall under Palestinian rule. As far as Aid to Israel. Israel is the ONLY country that gives more back to America than it receives, unlike allllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll the other countries which give nothing but take all. Aid to Palestinians is also a freebie where as Israel is OBLIGATED to buy American arms and therefore giving also to the ministry of defense budget and employment. All aid to Israel comes with many strings and is in no way a freebie but a business deal.
 

Past Member (0)
Thursday April 19, 2012, 9:59 am
"Mandated boarders John????????"

John G means exactly that. The borders that the Zionist Entity was allocated by the UN.
 

Alexander Werner (53)
Thursday April 19, 2012, 12:34 pm
John, after Arab Entities rejected them and attacked Israel instead, those borders became null and void. Now, after figuring out that they were sore losers at war, Arab Entities suddenly started respecting UN.

Probably, because Arabs got 22 votes over there vs. 1 voice for US, 1 voice for Canada, 1 voice for China, 1 voice for India, etc. Population size or economic development level doesn't matter. Call it diplomatic bullying, abuse of the system or what?
 

Alexander Werner (53)
Thursday April 19, 2012, 12:37 pm
Eli, you missed an important point: Saudis ALWAYS buy whatever Israel gets. That means Buy One - Get One Free deal, with Saudis paying for both parties (margin on military equipment is quite high). The more Israel gets - the better for US economy.

Producing equipment for Israel and staff for Saudis keeps 50,000 jobs - a nice thing to have nowadays.

The aid to Palestinian Arabs, about a BILLION BUCKS - is in cash - direct disadvantage to US taxpayers.
 

Past Member (0)
Thursday April 19, 2012, 1:32 pm
Bob A

"John, after Arab Entities rejected them and attacked Israel instead"

Don't lie. The Zionist terrorists had already attacked and taken parts of Palestine awarded to the non-Jewish entity way before any Arabs fought back.
 

Eli T. (90)
Thursday April 19, 2012, 2:46 pm
Dear John, You have a lot to learn. ", after Arab Entities rejected them and attacked Israel instead. Absolutely true. Just hours after the creation of the state of Israel Arab armies attacked. Jordan took control of what is now referred to as the west bank and east Jerusalem. This naturally cancelling out the intended October decision as to the future of Jerusalem. British control was withdrawn and the conquered territories taken by Jordan stayed under Jordanian control until the 6 day war.
 

Past Member (0)
Thursday April 19, 2012, 4:22 pm
EARLY ZIONIST TERRORIST GANGS.


Soon after the end of World War II, there were three basic para-military Zionist organizations in Palestine, working against the Arab people, with the specific purpose of driving it out of Palestine. These were the Haganah, the Irgun Zvai Leumi and the Stern Gang.

Before the British Mandate, the Jewish settlers had formed a group of mounted armed watchmen called "Hashomar" and with the advent of the British Mandate, it became the Haganah (Defense). With a membership of 60,000 Zionist Jews, the Haganah had a field army of 16,000 trained men and a unit called the Palmach, which was a full-time force, numbering about 6000.

The Irgun Zvai Leumi included between 3000 and 5000 armed terrorists, and grew out of the Haganah and its Palmach branch in 1933. The Irgun was not ready to obey the Jewish Agency which sought to dilute the terror of the Haganah in order not to lose its respectability.

In 1939, one of Irgun's commanding officers, Abraham Stern, left the parent organization and formed the Stern Gang, numbering some 200 to 300 dangerous fanatics.


SOME EARLY EXAMPLES OF JEWISH-ZIONIST TERROR.


August 20, 1937 - June 29, 1939. During this period, the Zionists carried out a series of attacks against Arab buses, resulting in the death of 24 persons and wounding 25 others.

November 25, 1940. S.S.Patria was blown up by Jewish terrorists in Haifa harbour, killing 268 illegal Jewish immigrants (see below).

November 6, 1944. Zionist terrorists of the Stern Gang assassinated the British Minister Resident in the Middle East, Lord Moyne, in Cairo.

July 22, 1946. Zionist terrorists blew up the King David Hotel in Jerusalem, which housed the central offices of the civilian administration of the government of Palestine, killing or injuring more than 200 persons. The Irgun officially claimed responsibility for the incident, but subsequent evidence indicated that both the Haganah and the Jewish Agency were involved.

October 1, 1946. The British Embassy in Rome was badly damaged by bomb explosions, for which Irgun claimed responsibility.

June 1947. Letters sent to British Cabinet Ministers were found to contain bombs.

September 3, 1947. A postal bomb addressed to the British War Office exploded in the post office sorting room in London, injuring 2 persons. It was attributed to Irgun or Stern Gangs. (The Sunday Times, Sept. 24, 1972, p.8)

December 11, 1947. Six Arabs were killed and 30 wounded when bombs were thrown from Jewish trucks at Arab buses in Haifa; 12 Arabs were killed and others injured in an attack by armed Zionists on an Arab coastal village near Haifa.

December 13,1947. Zionist terrorists, believed to be members of Irgun Zvai Leumi, killed 18 Arabs and wounded nearly 60 in Jerusalem, Jaffa and Lydda areas. In Jerusalem, bombs were thrown in an Arab market-place near the Damascus Gate; in Jaffa, bombs were thrown into an Arab cafe; in the Arab village of Al Abbasya, near Lydda, 12 Arabs were killed in an attack with mortars and automatic weapons.

December 19, 1947. Haganah terrorists attacked an Arab village near Safad, blowing up two houses, in the ruins of which were found the bodies of 10 Arabs, including 5 children. Haganah admitted responsibility for the attack.

December 29, 1947. Two British constables and 11 Arabs were killed and 32 Arabs injured, at the Damascus Gate in Jerusalem when Irgun members threw a bomb from a taxi.

December 30,1947. A mixed force of the Zionist Palmach and the "Carmel Brigade" attacked the village of Balad al Sheikh, killing more than 60 Arabs.

1947 -- 1948. Over 700,000 Palestinian Arabs were uprooted from their homes and land, and forced to live in refugee camps on Israel's borders. They have been denied the right to return to their homes. They have been refused compensation for their homes, orchards, farms and other property stolen from them by the Israeli government. After their expulsion, the "Israeli Forces" totally obliterated (usually by bulldozing) 385 Arab villages and towns, out of a total of 475. Commonly, Israeli villages were built on the remaining rubble.

January 1, 1948. Haganah terrorists attacked a village on the slopes of Mount Carmel; 17 Arabs were killed and 33 wounded.

January 4, 1948. Haganah terrorists wearing British Army uniforms penetrated into the center of Jaffa and blew up the Serai (the old Turkish Government House) which was used as a headquarters of the Arab National Committee, killing more than 40 persons and wounding 98 others.

January 5, 1948. The Arab-owned Semiramis Hotel in Jerusalem was blown up, killing 20 persons, among them Viscount de Tapia, the Spanish Consul. Haganah admitted responsibility for this crime.

January 7, 1948. Seventeen Arabs were killed by a bomb at the Jaffa Gate in Jerusalem, 3 of them while trying to escape. Further casualties, including the murder of a British officer near Hebron, were reported from different parts of the country.

January 16, 1948. Zionists blew up three Arab buildings. In the first, 8 children between the ages of 18 months and 12 years, died.

December 13, 1947 -- February 10, 1948. Seven incidents of bomb-tossing at innocent Arab civilians in cafes and markets, killing 138 and wounding 271 others, During this period, there were 9 attacks on Arab buses. Zionists mined passenger trains on at least 4 occasions, killing 93 persons and wounding 161 others.

February 15, 1948. Haganah terrorists attacked an Arab village near Safad, blew up several houses, killing 11 Arabs, including 4 children..

March 3, 1948. Heavy damage was done to the Arab-owned Salam building in Haifa (a 7 story block of apartments and shops) by Zionists who drove an army lorry ( truck) up to the building and escaped before the detonation of 400 Ib. of explosives; casualties numbered 11 Arabs and 3 Armenians killed and 23 injured. The Stern Gang claimed responsibility for the incident.

March 22, 1948. A housing block in Iraq Street in Haifa was blown up killing 17 and injuring 100 others. Four members of the Stern Gang drove two truck-loads of explosives into the street and abandoned the vehicles before the explosion.

March 31, 1948. The Cairo-Haifa Express was mined, for the second time in a month, by an electronically-detonated land mine near Benyamina, killing 40 persons and wounding 60 others.

April 9, 1948. A combined force of Irgun Zvai Leumi and the Stern Gang, supported by the Palmach forces, captured the Arab village of Deir Yassin and killed more than 200 unarmed civilians, including countless women and children. Older men and young women were captured and paraded in chains in the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem; 20 of the hostages were then shot in the quarry of Gevaat Shaul.

April 16, 1948. Zionists attacked the former British army camp at Tel Litvinsky, killing 90 Arabs there.

April 19, 1948. Fourteen Arabs were killed in a house in Tiberias, which was blown up by Zionist terrorists.

May 3, 1948. A book bomb addressed to a British Army officer, who had been stationed in Palestine exploded, killing his brother, Rex Farran.

May11, 1948. A letter bomb addressed to Sir Evelyn Barker, former Commanding Officer in Palestine, was detected in the nick of time by his wife.

April 25, 1948 -- May 13, 1948. Wholesale looting of Jaffa was carried out following armed attacks by Irgun and Haganah terrorists. They stripped and carried away everything they could, destroying what they could not take with them.
 

Past Member (0)
Thursday April 19, 2012, 4:34 pm
Eli T

You are lying of course, whether from ignorance or malice, I don't know.

http://www.deiryassin.org/faq.html

1. What happened at Deir Yassin beginning April 9, 1948?

About 100-120 of its residents, a great number of whom were women and children, were massacred. The village was a Palestinian Arab town of about 750 located west of Jerusalem. The "massacre" actually occurred in three distinct phases to be discussed below.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel

on 14 May 1948 David Ben-Gurion, the Executive Head of the World Zionist Organization[8] and president of the Jewish Agency for Palestine, declared the establishment of a Jewish state in Eretz Israel, to be known as the State of Israel, a state independent from the British Mandate for Palestine

So Palestinians were being attacked and massacred before the establishment of the Zionist Entity.

'Nuff said.
 

Stan B. (123)
Thursday April 19, 2012, 6:37 pm
And " peaceful " Islamists have carried out more than 17600 terror attacks since 9/11. Another 35 killed and 100 injured in Iraq today alone. God knows how many innocent Syrians have been massacred since the so-called ceasefire.
 

Stephen Brian (23)
Thursday April 19, 2012, 7:28 pm
Eli's first comment really hits the nail on the head as far as the absurdity of the negotiations goes. The side with the power is the one that makes demands and dictates terms, not the defeated one. Why was Netanyahu receiving a letter of demands rather than giving one? That is the way things have always worked in every other conflict, and for good reason. Why would Israelis ever submit to Palestinian demands for peace? Israelis are supposedly the ones far more comfortable with the status quo. Until the rest of the world allows the demands and dictation of terms to run the other way, where concessions are demanded of the side with motivation to give them, and until Palestinian leaders allow that to happen, there will be one more problem dooming any negotiations.

Of course, that won't happen. Palestinians leaders are, I believe, more comfortable than Israeli leaders with the conflict. After all, the primary source of support for their factions is their ability to fight in it. It would be political suicide for a faction to make peace and useless unless it can police the others, and none of them can do that. Certainly none could hope to do that after losing support by making peace. Then there is the question of the leaders' personal security: It has long been assumed, by Palestinians and Americans, at least, that the Palestinian politician who makes peace with Israel would have at absolute most a few years to live. Those leaders are much, much more comfortable with the status quo than with peace. On the Israeli side, the leader who makes peace, as long as it is on reasonable terms (including things like maintenance of Israel's demographics and not sticking a hostile border within shooting-range of the parliamentary buildings), would assure his reelection. The people's relative comfort runs one way, but that of the leaders runs the other. Of course, as Israel is a functional democracy, it leaders cannot contradict its people's desires too much, leaving the negotiations at an impasse.

The restarted negotiations are pretty much just for show. They cannot succeed as long as they begin like this.
 

Stephen Brian (23)
Thursday April 19, 2012, 7:49 pm
What John D. left out, of course, is which groups engaged in the attacks and their eventual fate.

Irgun and the Stern Gang (Lehi) split off from Haganah because it refused to engage in offensive action against Palestinians or the British, sticking only to the defense of Jewish settlements and deterrent retaliation for attacks from known sources. Those attacks were the work of these two groups, which were actually attacked and destroyed by Haganah, which later became the IDF. In case this is news to you, read that again: The armed branch of the proto-state of Israel, the organization which later formed its state-infrastructure, stopped the attacks against Palestinians. Irgun was disarmed and its command-structure was destroyed and members absorbed into Haganah's units. The Stern Gang was arrested by Jews.

Why are their fates so important? They say the war of 1948 was between Arabs and Jews, but this is not quite correct. Wars are between political entities, not ethnic groups. The polities may break down along ethnic lines, but the distinction is important here. Haganah (eventually Israel) and the groups which conducted the attacks which John listed, were obviously separate entities, under separate leadership, and certainly not allies. One destroyed the others. Were Palestinians attacked? Of course. Were they attacked by Israel, against which they "retaliated"? Nope.

This is also relevant to Eli's and John's dispute: Israel, the state which declared independence, had not signalled hostile intent, nor broken any truce, nor made any show of intent for war. John's long list of attacks does not actually contradict Eli's statement.

Regarding questions of ignorance and malice, I am fairly sure that John did not omit these relevant details out of ignorance. I have not checked lately, but I believe I explained them to his before. That leaves only one other option, intent to deceive.

What else he and John G. left out, regarding U.N.-mandated borders, is that the U.N. has no authority to mandate borders. In fact, demanding the rejection of a key element of a peace-deal runs directly contrary to the point of the organization as given in Article 1 of its charter. The only conditions under which it could try that would be if one side were negotiating under duress. The Jordanian government was not under threat to personal security, nor was the country threatened with loss of sovereignty in 1967. Jordan was not under duress. Israel certainly wasn't at the end of that war either. This case, however, may just be ignorance. A lot of posters on Care2 attribute power to the U.N. which it does not actually possess.
 

Michael Dewey (1039)
Friday April 20, 2012, 3:54 am
We hope that Treaty that all signers (Even America) of the NPT, (Of which we wonder why Israel is not a signer? Oh they our above the law.) agreed to a few years ago, gets enforced, and The Middle East becomes a Nuclear Free Zone. (I for one do not like seeing Nuclear Weapons on the ground that Jesus stood.) Oh but America after signing did make this gutless statement, (That took all the meaning out of the Treaty.) ''We are not going to single out Israel.''

That French President was correct when he call Fruit Nutten Yahoo a liar. Yahoo said on National American TV, that Israel would not be the first country in the M.E to introduce Nuclear Weapons. It is a World known fact, that Israel is the only country there that has them. We can give some thanks to Modechia Vanunu for revealing that back in the 80s.

Why would Abraham's Children need the Bomb? Would he have destroyed Sodom? I think not, but that's just an opinion. One thing is clear though Abraham would not have killed innocent civilians along with, what I Renegade Muslims. Killing innocents is not the deeds of Abraham! If Israel is going to go on claiming to be the chosen people, it had best start acting like it.

Someone in this thread implied I wanted to disband Israel. I said I wanted a World Court to sit on crimes from BOTH SIDES in Cast Lead. Clearly nothing we have done so far is working.

(Oh we all knew as Teenagers in the 70s that America was the real Promised Land. We all had the same feeling that The Native Americans, were, mystical lost Tribe of Israel. Only time will tell won't it? Thousands of years of roaming free in a Beautiful Land...That sounds much more blessed than being scattered around the World.)

 

Stephen Brian (23)
Friday April 20, 2012, 3:35 pm
Hi Michael,

Yes, in fact Israel is above that law. Treaties are contractual. If a state does not sign on to a treaty, then it is not to be held to that treaty's obligations, nor do obligations by signatories to other signatories apply to it. Israel is not bound by the NPT, free to acquire or assist proliferation. However, its civilian nuclear industry is not entitled to the assistance given to those of signatories without nuclear weapons, nor does the treaty assure it access to benefits of nuclear research by signatories, nor does it have any vote in amendment of the NPT.

Now, why do you call refusal to single out Israel "gutless"? Cite your source regarding Netanyahu's statement regarding whether Israel would be the first to introduce nuclear weapons in the Middle East. I recall him saying that Israel would not be the first to threaten to use them. There is a big difference between promising not to have them and promising not to use them aggressively.

Regarding a "World Court", who exactly would be on it? Who would get to choose the judges, and under whose laws would they judge? Is some neutral way to do this which would be acceptable to all parties, and if not, by what measure would one deem it impartial? Who would enforce its sentences, and if a new body gets created for the purpose, who gets to pay the bills and supply the manpower for it? I've seen this whole "world court" thing before, and NOBODY has ever produced a workable answer to any of those questions. You might be the first, so take a crack at it.
 

Michael Dewey (1039)
Saturday April 21, 2012, 3:32 am
Stephen, I was sure I heard Ben say on a Bill Maher show that Israel would not be the first to introduce Nuclear Weapons in The Middle East. Maybe I was mistaken. I just watched him on the Show, and he just avoided the question. But the point is, anyone who does not have a problem with Nuclear Weapons on the Land where Jesus once stood, does not understand why The Lamb laid done his life, for Mankind. There are plenty of us children of god or Abraham in The Promised Land of America, who do not like our Broken Promised Land processing them, or having been the only one to ever drop it.

There would be no problem getting honest Judges in a World Court, to hear the evidence and decide on it. Let the whole world hear all of the evidence, and if the people do not like the decision, we will speak out. As for enforcement, it would all boil down to sanctions and stuff.

Yes, that gutless statement took all of the meat out of that Treaty. But I hope and will spend my life calling for Israel to lay down its arms, for these are the days of Isaiah 2, and Micah 4, when Nations shall beat their swords into plowshares and never train for war again.

Steve Earle singing Jerusalem at the Operation Ceasefire Concert in Wasington DC on 9/24/2005 I believe one fine day all the children of Abraham will lay down their swords in Jerusalem. World Peace hinges on it.

 

Michael Dewey (1039)
Saturday April 21, 2012, 3:35 am
Whoops, mistake on hotlink. This one should work.

Steve Earle singing Jerusalem at the Operation Ceasefire Concert in Wasington DC on 9/24/2005 I believe one fine day all the children of Abraham will lay down their swords in Jerusalem. World Peace hinges on it.
 

Eli T. (90)
Saturday April 21, 2012, 4:50 am
Michael, " I hope and will spend my life calling for Israel to lay down its arm". I guess you are showing the signs of an obsession.
In the words of a great leader "If the Arabs lay down their arms, there will be peace. If Israel lays down her arms, there will be no Israel.". I recommend you spend a little more time stopping your own government creating the arms that they sell to all sides.
Deuteronomy 30:3 then the LORD your God will restore your fortunes and have compassion on you and gather you again from all the nations where he scattered you.
Jeremiah 32:37 Behold, I will gather them out of all countries, where I have driven them in my anger, and in my fury, and in great wrath; and I will bring them again unto this place, and I will cause them to dwell safely:
Isaiah 11:11 In that day the Lord will reach out his hand a second time to reclaim the remnant that is left of his people from Assyria, from Lower Egypt, from Upper Egypt, from Cush, from Elam, from Babylonia, from Hamath and from the islands of the sea.
Jeremiah 16:15 but they will say, 'As surely as the LORD lives, who brought the Israelites up out of the land of the north and out of all the countries where he had banished them.' For I will restore them to the land I gave their forefathers.
Jeremiah 23:3 "I myself will gather the remnant of my flock out of all the countries where I have driven them and will bring them back to their pasture, where they will be fruitful and increase in number.
Jeremiah 23:6 In his days Judah will be saved and Israel will live in safety. This is the name by which he will be called: The LORD Our Righteousness.
Jeremiah 29:14 I will be found by you," declares the LORD, "and will bring you back from captivity. I will gather you from all the nations and places where I have banished you," declares the LORD, "and will bring you back to the place from which I carried you into exile."
Amos 9:14 I will bring back my exiled people Israel; they will rebuild the ruined cities and live in them. They will plant vineyards and drink their wine; they will make gardens and eat their fruit.
THE MICHAELS OF THIS WORLD
Ezekiel 38:16and you will attack my people Israel, covering their land like a cloud. At that time in the distant future, I will bring you against my land as everyone watches, and my holiness will be displayed by what happens to you, Gog. Then all the nations will know that I am the LORD.
ACCORDING TO THE NT Revelation 20:9 They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God's people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them.
Ezekiel 36:23 I will show the holiness of my great name, which has been profaned among the nations, the name you have profaned among them. Then the nations will know that I am the LORD, declares the Sovereign LORD, when I show myself holy through you before their eyes.
Ezekiel 38:9 You and all your troops and the many nations with you will go up, advancing like a storm; you will be like a cloud covering the land.
Ezekiel 38:23 And so I will show my greatness and my holiness, and I will make myself known in the sight of many nations. Then they will know that I am the LORD.'
Ezekiel 39:7 "'I will make known my holy name among my people Israel. I will no longer let my holy name be profaned, and the nations will know that I the LORD am the Holy One in Israel.
Joel 3:11 Come quickly, all you nations from every side, and assemble there. Bring down your warriors, O Lord!

WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO THE MICHAELS OF THIS WORLD.

JOEL3:21
I will gather all nations and bring them down to the Valley of Jehoshaphat. There I will enter into judgment against them concerning my inheritance, my people Israel, for they scattered my people among the nations and divided up my land.
THE NAME YEHOSHAFAT = G0D'S JUDGEMENT S we can see G0d intends to bring these nations to the valley of G0d's judgement.
Isaiah 66:16 For with fire and with his sword the LORD will execute judgment upon all men, and many will be those slain by the LORD.
Isaiah 66:18 "And I, because of their actions and their imaginations, am about to come and gather all nations and tongues, and they will come and see my glory
Jeremiah 25:31 The tumult will resound to the ends of the earth, for the LORD will bring charges against the nations; he will bring judgment on all mankind and put the wicked to the sword,'" declares the LORD.
Jeremiah 50:17 "Israel is a scattered flock that lions have chased away. The first to devour him was the king of Assyria; the last to crush his bones was Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon."
Ezekiel 34:6 My sheep wandered over all the mountains and on every high hill. They were scattered over the whole earth, and no one searched or looked for them.



 

Alexandra R. (329)
Saturday April 21, 2012, 6:04 am
Thanks Eli, Stephen, Cal, Bob, etc If I could star you, I would have ...!
 

Dave C. (213)
Saturday April 21, 2012, 5:57 pm
Lets hope they are all willing to say "Give Peace a Chance"
 

Alexander Werner (53)
Saturday April 21, 2012, 10:51 pm
After all, Israeli nukes if they exist - saved peace for a quite a while. Iranian nukes will lead to war, with Obama watching from afar and doing nothing, except for motivational and optimistic speeches.

Back to the subject: Palestinian Arabs simply cannot afford to live in peace, because they will forfeit their UNWRA aid of ONE BILLION Bucks a year and US Aid of about 800 MILLION Bucks a year.
 

Michael Dewey (1039)
Sunday April 22, 2012, 2:35 am
Eli, Oh as is said in Jeremiah 23, when they are returned, they will no longer teach, as Moses lead them out of the wilderness, but how they were returned. But if your leaders, who have such a high calling, of being ''the chosen people'' do not start treating the stranger as themselves, mark my words, Luke 21:20 will be fulfilled, by Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, for her leaders desolation to be at hand, and the land will vomit them out, as they were always warned by the Prophets sent to them, who they killed. Are you proud of being the children of those who killed the Prophets? It sounds like nothing has changed since you hung your last king on a tree. But yes, those who surround Jerusalem, may very well miss the purpose, as is written.

Bob, Israel Nuclear Weapons, do in fact exist on the land where Jesus once stood. That is clear proof to me, that Israel's leaders are the same exact kind of people, as the Scribes and Pharisees of 2000 years ago. If they do not want to stay an isolated State, they could at least sign The NPT. Its a known fact that Israel tried to sell Nuclear Technology to South Africa back in the 80s. They should be tried in a World Court for that mister!

Plenty of us are working on America's crimes. And a big one is blind support of Israel.

Will Israel ever figure out that the child in Isaiah 7:14 was the Lamb? That is not the same child of Isaiah 9:6, whom from his time on and forever there will be peace. Keep waiting Eli, for your superman to come flying out of the sky. He is coming in the flesh this time too, as he did 2000 years ago. Personally, I find it an odd sort of marriage, between Israel and The Christian Right. The Christians ''say'' you must except Christ, while Israel only says he was a Prophet, if that.

Why should Palestine enter into Peace talks while Israel keeps building illegal settlements on Palestine land?
 

Alexander Werner (53)
Sunday April 22, 2012, 10:07 am
Michelle, because Arabs wanting to create a second Palestinian Arabs state must respect rights of other Palestinian inhabitants, in particular Jews, to allocate them land for their state. Palestinian Arabs know full well that no Arab country agreed to give them lands, and must show their appreciation for the lands Israel agrees to give.
 

Stephen Brian (23)
Sunday April 22, 2012, 10:40 am
Hi Michael,

There may be no problem getting honest judges, but who would accept them, under what law would they judge, and how could we be confident that they would put their politics aside regarding such a polarizing issue? There could be thousands of honest judges lined up (though I doubt we could find even one thousand who would really put their own politics, preconceptions, and indoctrination one way or the other, aside on this issue), but it wouldn't matter if we can't verify. The two of us may come to an agreement regarding criteria which we would accept. Now try getting most Saudis, Egyptians, Sudanese, Nigerians, Belgians, Greeks, Portuguese, Americans, and Colombians to agree, and that doesn't even include Asia. I can think of at least three independent reasons why it cannot happen as long as the various cultures remain recognizably similar to what how they are today.

I should probably also point out that the bombs dropped by the U.S. on Japan were not nukes like the ones people were taught to fear in the Cold War. Hydrogen-boosting increases the yield of the bomb, from what I understand, roughly a thousand-fold, and was developed only in the 1950s, after the war. Those nuclear bombings were not even the deadliest attacks of the war.
 

Past Member (0)
Sunday April 22, 2012, 6:18 pm
"I should probably also point out that the bombs dropped by the U.S. on Japan were not nukes like the ones people were taught to fear in the Cold War"

So that's alright then?
 

Michael Dewey (1039)
Monday April 23, 2012, 2:44 am
I hear ya John. Defending the Atomic Bomb being dropped will never add up to this Space Cowboy.

In this 21st Century, we had better look for Peaceful Solutions of which a World Court could enforce the Geneva Convention (I believe that's what I mean.) and that says white phosphorous is not to be used on civilians, as Israel did in Cast Lead. After both sides are tried for possible war crimes in Cast Lead, America is next for its crimes in destroying Iraq.

I would like to quote Albert Einstein, a Jew and a Zionist: ''Should we be unable to find a way to honest cooperation and honest pacts with the Arabs, then we have learned absolutely nothing during our two thousand years of suffering, and deserve all that will come to us.'' Sadly it looks as if Albert knew something... Israel is still building illegal settlements, and that must stop.

Oh I do recall hearing that Israel does say Christ was a Prophet. So that makes me wonder, why do they not act on his words?
 

Stephen Brian (23)
Monday April 23, 2012, 8:50 pm
Hi John and Michael,

The lower yield of the blast didn't make it alright. What made as "alright" as war ever gets were the alternatives:

Alternative #1: Peace, conceding to Japan's claims to its conquered territory, condemning the conquered Manchurians and Mongolians to Japanese rule and its army's atrocities. Its war-atrocities were generally considered more severe than those of the Nazis (counting the atrocities of war alone, not the Holocaust). I'm having trouble finding a source on this now, but I understand they were so bad in Manchuria that the Nazis condemned them and set up humanitarian efforts. Even without those sources, looking at the atrocities themselves, I doubt that any Europeans, even Nazis, could have approved. Leaving a substantial chunk of China under conditions too horrible for Nazis to stomach is worse than the heavy bombing of two cities.

Alternative #2: Fight them in their conquered territories, but not enter Japan: Unworkable. U.S. power-projection at the time was insufficient to maintain a long campaign far from any substantial support against a powerful force operating near its home without striking at its ability to resupply and reinforce. The U.S. would actually have lost such a campaign. The results would have been a long war + those of surrender. A long bloody war followed by atrocities too harsh for Nazis is worse than the heavy bombing of two cities.

Alternative #3: Invasion of Japan. The population was hardcore patriotic. The U.S. would have faced a country in arms. When they ran out of guns, they would have used knives. When they ran out of knives, they would have used pointed sticks. I understand that plans for this were drawn up. They would still have lost against American forces, but the expected fatalities were vastly greater than the total populations of Hiroshima and Nagasaki combined. Remember that at the time, to bomb a site, one had to drop an enormous number of bombs and hope that one hit. The median distance between ground zero of a bomb and its target was, at the time, was about 3 - 5 miles, so bombing campaigns against enemies based in cities were extremely bloody. The result would have been close to a genocide of the Japanese. The destruction of most of Japan would have been worse than the heavy bombing of two cities.

Alternative #4: threaten Japan by using a nuke outside of populated areas, but within sight of the capital. Perhaps supportable, but a moot point. Japan did not surrender after Hiroshima was bombed. Who really thinks it would have surrendered after a bombing from which there were no losses? Of course they didn't know that at the time. What the U.S. did know was that using 60% of the power in its electric grid for a year produced 4 bombs. One was used in the Trinity test and to get a surrender by threatening to use a nuke, it had to have one left. That left it with two shots, and it wanted to make them both count as much as possible to avoid the other three cases. The result would have been failure followed by one of the others. Pick one, and it would have been worse than the heavy bombing of two cities.

Here's a question for both of you. If there were a war going on that had raged for 45 months and showed no sign of stopping, would you have been willing to sacrifice less than 1% of its casualties in order to stop the fighting? Would you have been willing to kill 215,000 people (150,000 in Hiroshima and 75,000 in Nagasaki) to end a war that (counting only the Pacific theater) had already claimed ~ 24,000,000 lives and wasn't slowing down? Like I've posted here before, war sucks.
 

Michael Dewey (1039)
Tuesday April 24, 2012, 12:25 am
From my seeing The Old Testament as sort of a parable, with Israel continually falling away, and being occupied, it makes me wonder why there have been so many wars since we armed The Promised Land of America? But on this broiling melting pot called Mother Earth, the birth pangs that cause the wars will end up being trashed, and peaceful solutions will raise to the top.
 

Stephen Brian (23)
Tuesday April 24, 2012, 8:18 pm
Hi Michael,

Here is a video that should cheer you up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ramBFRt1Uzk
Peaceful solutions are already rising to the top, and have been for quite some time.
 
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