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ISRAEL'S ORTHODOX: Fighting Against Soldiering


World  (tags: world, politics, israel, 'CIVILLIBERTIES!', patriotic duty, military service, Haredim, ultra ortodox in Israel, middle-east, news, freedoms )

Cal
- 865 days ago - ipsnews.net
Thousands of ultra-Orthodox men, women and children have been demonstrating in Jerusalem against the Israeli government's move to make military service mandatory for members of their community.In February, the Israeli Supreme Court ruled that a law exempt



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Comments

Cal Mendelsohn (1008)
Tuesday August 14, 2012, 4:12 am

Those of you on all sides who follow my politics in any way know how I feel. The ultra orthodox set up rules in Israel that put all of the military burdens of defending their nation onto everyone else and until february this year everyone else by law agreed. It is and has been an unfair burden to simply not extend this responsibility to a group simply because they simply don't want to mix with everyone else in any way.

While this might have been necessary many decades ago in /europe and elsewhere, it isn't today and shirking these kind of responsibilities simply reinforces feelings of cultural and religious superiority that a good number in the Heradim/ orthodox community in Israel have. There is no basis for this isolation in reality except the fear that traditions will be lost by contact with outsiders, however brief. I believe that if your faith is strong enough, it will survive contact with others who don't believe or practice religion as you do.
 

John Gregoire (264)
Tuesday August 14, 2012, 6:05 am
If the ultra orthodox want the privileges of citizenship then they must serve their country.
 

Jennifer C. (169)
Tuesday August 14, 2012, 6:35 am
Thanks.
 

Susanne R. (249)
Tuesday August 14, 2012, 11:33 am
Aren't these the very same people who throw rocks at and spit on women if they don't feel that their mode of dress is in line with their outdated religious beliefs --even if the women are dressed very modestly? If they choose to be "conscientious objectors," then why are they waging a war on women? Sounds hypocritical to me...
 

Florence Eaise (132)
Tuesday August 14, 2012, 12:35 pm
well said John i agree thanks Cal for posting i also agree with you if your faith is strong then no one would be able to change it!
 

Allan Yorkowitz (448)
Tuesday August 14, 2012, 1:02 pm
John Gregoire stated this situation very well. These people have been a drain on the Israeli economy from its inception. How the ultra-orthodox have gotten away with this, I don't know.
 

Stephen Brian (23)
Tuesday August 14, 2012, 3:27 pm
Part of the problem is that they have serious allies in this: A lot of military officers and personnel don't really want them in the armed forces, believing that they would be liabilities rather than assets. For at least the first few years, they would be absolutely correct. That, I think, is why Netanyahu wanted to negotiate a phase-in of their conscription, to minimize the liabilities until they and the military adapt, and they become assets. It is unfortunate that his allies opted to leave the coalition rather than accept a slow phase-in.

I hope that with the increased pool of potential conscripts, the Israeli forces will finally be able to get picky about whom it lets in. That and the lack of a tradition of career non-commissioned officers are the primary parts of what make it the world's best second-rate army, rather than a fully NATO-quality force. Aside from that entirely, the opportunity to get picky about to whom it gives a gun and authority over civilians at checkpoints and under other circumstances could do good things for relations between Israel and Palestinians.
 

Michael Kirkby (86)
Tuesday August 14, 2012, 3:41 pm
What a load of horse cookies. If the Arabs were to invade and drive them out they would be the first to bitch and complain. They claim God gave them the land then they should be willing to fight for it and defend it. David certainly did. The real purpose of an army is to defend against invasion; not to build hegemonic empires.
 

leslie c. (18)
Wednesday August 15, 2012, 3:00 am
Noted, thanks Cal. Am in complete agreement w/ you. Although I
think Stephen B. makes a good point about using some kind of
phase-in-program. Tensions are so high, to Cold Turkey the Heradim
and the Army both straight into military service would most likely
be a failure all around. But the Heradim are fond of taking advantage
of all that Israel has to offer & at the same time not recognizing Israel's
right to exist & causing many of the internal problems inside the country
including this new "War on Women's rights." They should have to comply
just like any other citizen if that is where they want to live. If they don't
want to live where they'll be expected to serve in the military, then
maybe they need to be living in a country like Switzerland where their
free to not have to serve any military service. They should not expect to
have it their way/all ways. Nor should Israeli's be expected to support them
for their so-called superior religious beliefs while being looked upon as a lower-class
of Jews themselves who DO work & contribute to the economy of the State.
As far as Palestinians being required to join, it's such a mixed bag of questions
& problems who knows what the fair solution to that would be for everyone involved?
 

Patricia H. (454)
Wednesday August 15, 2012, 3:40 am
noted
 

Stan B. (123)
Wednesday August 15, 2012, 3:53 am
Some great comments above. If these free-loaders aren't prepared to do their military service and the army doesn't want them, they should be made to serve the same amount of time doing community service.
No one likes parasites who take but don't give.
 

anne barusta (0)
Wednesday August 15, 2012, 1:59 pm
The Heradim have all the rights and no responsibilities, that is unfair and needs to change. Palestinians if required to join should should also be given all the rights and privileged.
 

Kate Kenner (212)
Wednesday August 15, 2012, 2:29 pm
During the holocaust they didn't really fight either. They though the Messiah would come and save them. Well, that didn't work so well.They are a strange and extreme group who have for years cause problems there.
 

Fred Krohn (34)
Wednesday August 15, 2012, 3:32 pm
Why not serve in the medical corps? How about allowing service as a professional firefighter to be equivalent to military service? Maybe they can work in munitions factories or military vehicle plants or military supplies producers? It's not like they're any better or worse than the rest of their nation - but there's a big difference between legitimate 'conscientious objection' and simple cowardice. My answer at highschool graduation was to choose my service branch and I ended up steaming submarines, rather than shooting battlefield opponents. Great educational opportunity. Military service is much more than just killing...
 

patrica and edw jones (190)
Wednesday August 15, 2012, 7:26 pm
If they want to live in a peaceful Israel - they must do their bit for their country - and stop griping about it. Come live in the real world.
 

Elaya Raja (39)
Wednesday August 15, 2012, 10:34 pm
good share....
 

Hartson Doak (33)
Thursday August 16, 2012, 12:00 am
There has always been those who do NOT want to kill other people. There have always been conscientious objectors. These people when forced to serve are put in noncombat roles. There is nothing wrong with that. For every one person with a gun there are five behind the front lines.
 

Rin S. (10)
Thursday August 16, 2012, 12:36 am
Signed and noted :)
 

Rin S. (10)
Thursday August 16, 2012, 12:37 am
Oh sorry, that ^previous comment was for the wrong article.
 

Jo Ellen H. (3)
Thursday August 16, 2012, 6:33 am
thanks
 
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