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No More Newtowns: What Will It Take?

US Politics & Gov't  (tags: gun control, Newtown Massacre, gun violence, children, news, government, ethics, media, lies, politics, americans )

- 1950 days ago -
Many Americans are in agreement, in principle, on point 4. So what would it take for that agreement to translate into action in the face of one of the most powerful lobbies the world has ever seen?

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Rose Becke (141)
Monday December 17, 2012, 4:53 pm
A lot of Action

Lois Jordan (63)
Monday December 17, 2012, 5:29 pm
Noted. Well, the good news is that 140,000 people have signed the White House petition. Sen. Feinstein will be introducing the Assault Weapons Ban in the new Congress. This is not a political issue. It's an issue of health and safety. Those members of Congress who are against this, or plan to water it down, are in the pockets of the NRA. It's our job to spread the word and get the message out.

Aletta Kraan (146)
Monday December 17, 2012, 6:30 pm
Noted, such a terrible waste of human lives!!!

Monica D (580)
Monday December 17, 2012, 6:33 pm

pam w (139)
Monday December 17, 2012, 6:52 pm

Stephen Brian (23)
Monday December 17, 2012, 10:06 pm
Has anyone here ever disassembled a gun? There is nothing rare, tough to build, or terribly technologically advanced about the parts. People can build these things in their homes. I would be far from shocked if, with a little money and training, you could put together full-up AK-47s. I'm not saying that it's wrong to stop dangerous people from getting them, nor that it wouldn't really help. I'm saying it's impossible right now, and it will only get easier for people to acquire or build guns over time. We need a different approach. Shooter-drills with teachers, students, and police working together just like in fire-drills, alarms, lockable doors partitioning schools, buildings made to be secured against attack while still possible to evacuate, and armed security, whether professional or of trained school-staff, would do a lot of good.

Giana Peranio-paz (398)
Tuesday December 18, 2012, 3:08 am
Protests, petitions, demonstrations, letters and e-mails...

Gloria picchetti (304)
Tuesday December 18, 2012, 3:22 am
I can't Send a Green Star to Giana Peranio-paz but she said it all, "Protests, petitions, demonstrations, letters, and e-mails."

penny C (85)
Tuesday December 18, 2012, 5:45 am
Sad & tragic.

Angelus Silesius (119)
Tuesday December 18, 2012, 6:03 am
The issue here is how a whole society can overlook the needs of an obviosuly disturbed youngster. Anyone who appears to be a social outcast many times just need human understanding and compassion. There were many signs that this kid needed help before all of this and it is easy to just ignore it in the hopes that someone else will adddress it. The next time we see someone who appears to be outcast we need to try to understand them and help them get the help they need.This is no fault of Newtown residents it is typical human nature to not want to step outside the group and do something proactive.

Past Member (0)
Tuesday December 18, 2012, 6:06 am
Let's make this " the moment that catalyzed a movement." Thanks for the very inspiring article. I think I'm going to print it out and post it to the wall behind my monitor, so I can read it everyday and remember that anything is possible. We have overcome some seemingly insurmountable issues in this country before, and we can do it again.

Alexandra Rodda (180)
Tuesday December 18, 2012, 6:10 am
Unfortunately the NRA and the GOP will resist anything that will limit gun availability to the general public in the USA.

Arielle S (313)
Tuesday December 18, 2012, 6:35 am
We didn't think we could take on the tobacco industry but we did. We can do the same with the NRA - the secret may be to keep at it and not let all this quietly go away as it has in the past.

Past Member (0)
Tuesday December 18, 2012, 7:52 am
noted with thanks for the great article.

Sheryl G (363)
Tuesday December 18, 2012, 12:39 pm
It will take each one of us to step up and speak out on this. The NRA will be pushing back once the immediate of this news dies off. They have lobbyist, they have gun toting believing politicians, and the NRA has big money, this will not be easy, but it is a must, otherwise more of us will die, children, Elders, and everyone in the middle, it's a war zone and we don't know at what point we'll be in it, that is the frightening part.

Stan B (123)
Tuesday December 18, 2012, 2:39 pm
If nothing is done to change America's gun laws, we are already in count down mode for the next massacre.
A constitution which was written over 200 years ago needs amending not revering. The second amendment has no place in 2012.

Diane O (194)
Tuesday December 18, 2012, 2:43 pm
The liberals will never put a dent in the right of Americans, sane Americans, to own a gun. It will never happen. What we need to be addressing at the criminally insane Americans who live among us and are ignored until they kill innocent children and adults at an elementary school. When insane people want to kill others, they will find a way and it may not be with a gun. It can be explosives, like the terrorists used on 9/11. It can be a baseball bat used in breaking and entering a private home to rape and mutilate an innocent defenseless woman. The vast majority of Americans who own guns never kill a human being.


Diane O (194)
Tuesday December 18, 2012, 2:43 pm
typo: "are the criminally insane..."

Darlene W (303)
Tuesday December 18, 2012, 4:17 pm
Jaime Dough and Diane O.--I agree with your words. There are people out there desperately in need of help that are pushed aside and ignored until something like this happens. It is truly tragic for all involved and affected. As stan b. stated - 'A constitution which was written over 200 years ago needs amending not revering.' With 'amending' and 'mandatory help' for those in need....we should see changes. The whole picture needs to be looked at - not just one side. Blessings to all who care and work toward a better world.

Diane O (194)
Tuesday December 18, 2012, 4:18 pm
The 9/11 terrorists didn't use a gun. They were successful in murdering 3,000 innocent Americans by other methods. They didn't fire one gun shot to my knowledge, Stan.

Diane O (194)
Tuesday December 18, 2012, 4:20 pm
Darlene, thank you for your post. Obviously YOU get it. It is, indeed, important to look at the whole picture.

Stan B (123)
Tuesday December 18, 2012, 5:13 pm
Diane. With respect your comparison of this awful massacre with 9/11 is illogical. You could also say that 300000 Japanese died as a result of two atomic bombs. No guns involved in that either.
Something has to change in America or, as I said earlier, there are going to be many other massacres of innocent people. Keeping out of date gun laws is a guarantee of this.
BTW Could you please explain to me why ordinary citizens need semi-automatic assault weapons.

Past Member (0)
Tuesday December 18, 2012, 7:21 pm
And that isn't all. Demand your taxes are better spent than in war industry!!!

Stephen Brian (23)
Tuesday December 18, 2012, 8:15 pm
Hi Stan :)

The U.S. constitution may need some updates to adapt to the modern world and technology, However, the underlying principles are generally still valid.

The Second Amendment has a place in 2012. It is assurance that neither the U.S. as a whole, nor any regional government within it, will not truly and effectively devolve into tyranny. It is useful for other reasons as well.

Hi Darlene :)
There is a mandate in the U.S. constitution to treat people who may be dangers to others because they are threats to the safety of others. This is the General Welfare clause, the same one that mandates the government to act against infectious disease, regulate buildings to prevent fires, and maintain public sanitation and clean water. There is no mandate to provide assistance to everyone in need for three reasons: First, it may not be practical. Second, the definition of "need" as opposed to "could probably use" is often unclear. Third, most coldly, it often does not benefit the people paying the bills. Some things which are seen as matters of individual welfare actually do benefit the "general welfare", so they are mandated, but not beyond those.

Gloria H (88)
Tuesday December 18, 2012, 11:38 pm
So who among us is criminally insane? Raise your hand. What is the differance between eccentric, autistic, neurotic, insane or just plain differant? And who will be the judge of that?
Unfortunately, one the other hand, some people dont give off signs of going off the deep end. Predators, pedophiles, rapists,con men and you name em bad guys have got the appearance of "normal" down to a fine act until they decide to go into action.
scary, isn't it.

Diane O (194)
Wednesday December 19, 2012, 2:32 am
Gloria, you are absolutely correct in your thinking. The point is that the vast majority of Americans will never have a thought about harming other people. It's a very small percentage of people who commit crimes like this. And you are right that we never really know who they are until they do something like this young man. What's sad is that it appears that targeting a school to gain this notoriety is a trend. We must protect the children while in school and that means schools need to be protected with security measures.


Patrice M (84)
Wednesday December 19, 2012, 4:27 am
Are you saying, Diane, that since it's a small percentage, that we should simply ignore what happened at Sandy Hook and muddle on, letting the right continue to worship the hateful (yet moneymaking for gun manufacturers) policies of the NRA?

Gloria, are you saying that we should leave the NRA alone because there are pedophiles in the world?

My head spins whenever I talk to right wingers about the NRA. Nothing you all say makes sense to me - or to millions of other people who want an end to gun violence.

What exactly is the NRA? It seems to me that it is a lobby to ensure that gun manufacturers stay financially wealthy. No matter how harmful their drive to put assault weaponry into everyone's hands, including children, the right wing tells us we must leave the NRA alone because - clutch the pearls - the second amendment.

I say we destroy the NRA. We support and lobby hard for bans on all assault weapons. We get stricter laws enacted in all 50 states. We can do it. We can make sure that there is never another Sandy Hook again.

Patrice M (84)
Wednesday December 19, 2012, 4:32 am
Stephen, I just nearly spit my coffee across the room while reading your comments. Are you saying that we need to have unlimited access to assault weapons all the time because we will need to defend ourselves against our own government? When? If more liberals get in office? What constitutes tyranny to you?

And just how many assault weapons do you own? Sure hope you don't live in my town.

Diane O (194)
Wednesday December 19, 2012, 5:28 am
Angelica, get your feet on the ground and reread what I wrote. It reads "thank God it's a small percentage." Honestly, you liberals must stay dizzy from all the spinning you do from my posts.

Your comment about destroying th NRA will never happen. Both political parties, yes, and that means the democrats, receive a ton of money from this organization. They are rock solid in our country. I'm all for banning assault weapons but the "hand gun" in our homes or in our cars is here to stay.

paul m (93)
Wednesday December 19, 2012, 7:29 am

Sadly noted

Past Member (0)
Wednesday December 19, 2012, 9:03 am
"The 9/11 terrorists didn't use a gun. They were successful in murdering 3,000 innocent Americans by other methods."

Never forget that the right and gw busH (mabus) LET 9/11 happen. It's not in dispute, just out of the corporate media.

Past Member (0)
Wednesday December 19, 2012, 10:24 am
The right just doesn't seem to have the ability to care. They just hate!

Mike Huckabee took to the air to blame the Sandy Hook massacre on gays, atheists and the "abortion pill".
Tell Fox News to take Mike Huckabee off the air.

Stephen Brian (23)
Wednesday December 19, 2012, 11:04 am
Hi Angelica,

While I do keep dangerous implements of various sorts spread throughout my apartment (knives in the kitchen, hammer in the hardware drawer in my bedroom, and PH 0 acid somewhere, I really need to clean up my bathroom) I do not own any firearms. I am a visitor to the U.S., not a citizen of it.

Unlimited access to assault weapons is not a good idea. Unfortunately, with a few designs and instructions from the internet, materials at local hardware stores, and other common materials, we already have universal access to these things. Many were designed to be very easy to produce. The difference between an "assault rifle" and any other modern rifle is a spring for kick-reduction.

Tyranny is the state where there is no effective recourse if a policy-maker decides to violate rights legally guaranteed to you. It can arise if the judiciary is run by partisans for the policy-maker or if law-enforcers obey the policy-maker's decrees rather than the preexisting law, or if the justice-system is somehow circumvented, and those who would take recourse have no recourse external to government. The proliferation of arms ensures that there is always some recourse for extreme cases. Tell me, what would you have said if George W. Bush had decided to ignore judges and the constitution, declare himself "President for Life", gotten support from the military and police, and permanently banned all registered Democrats from holding political office or any other form of authority (as police officers, lawyers, judges, doctors, owners of any real-estate, business-managers, or whatever else)? What if Nixon had done the same? Remember, the White House passes back and forth between parties, and eventually extremists from all ends will hold office.

James E (16)
Wednesday December 19, 2012, 12:45 pm
Guns don't kill people, people do. Guns just make it easier. It is past time for serious gun control.

Diane O (194)
Wednesday December 19, 2012, 1:22 pm
Jason, you are the poster boy for "hate" filled posts towards republicans. In fact, you may have qualified for the "I Hate Republicans" award.

Aaron Bouchard (158)
Wednesday December 19, 2012, 1:24 pm
Noted thanks

Past Member (0)
Wednesday December 19, 2012, 1:56 pm
I DO hate republicans, Di. They made me what I am today. Poor and sick. Thanks a lot!

Your turn. Why do you hate Liberals?

A; Because fox lies and makes me believe them.

Karen R (87)
Wednesday December 19, 2012, 3:23 pm
thanks for the article

Sergio Padilla (65)
Wednesday December 19, 2012, 3:26 pm

. (0)
Wednesday December 19, 2012, 4:50 pm
We definitely have to take a deeper look at our society and everyone needs to do their part to make it better.

Past Member (0)
Wednesday December 19, 2012, 5:32 pm
We NEED a divorce, Hugh.

Stephen Brian (23)
Wednesday December 19, 2012, 6:10 pm
Hi Jason,

I don't know if Diane hates liberals, but you certainly pointed out, quite succinctly, why liberals irritate me so often.

I don't know your situation, but a lot of liberals would blame anybody they don't like for their problems rather than take responsibility for their own lives. They would blame Republicans for making them poor and sick, or uneducated, or whatever, even if it was entirely their own doing. I could go into the reasons why I believe they do it, but it would be incredible arrogance for me to think that I could speak on behalf of other individuals, putting words in their mouths, motives in their hearts, and thoughts in their heads. It would be almost as arrogant as your answer to your assertion of Diane's beliefs, which brings me to the other reason why liberals irritate me so often. Liberal echo-chambers claim to speak accurately, as though other ideas and other attitudes did not exist. Too many liberals praise diversity, but , like you, speak and act as though they cannot imagine others having different views from their own. Again, I could go into the reasons for this, but from the arrogance you just displayed, I doubt anything I write, no matter how demonstrably true, would mean much to you. If others are interested, however, I would be happy to explain my views.

Patrice M (84)
Wednesday December 19, 2012, 7:35 pm
The republicans have launched attack after attack on various members of the middle class - teachers, postal workers, all other government employees, first responders, While they have done this, they have pandered to corporations and billionaires - all at our expense. So, yes, Stephen, we do hate republican policies and we want to defeat them.

Your comments about the government and your right to bear arms terrify me, Stephen.

Stan B (123)
Wednesday December 19, 2012, 7:52 pm
I'm shocked that some people are trying to make political capital from such a tragic story.

Past Member (0)
Wednesday December 19, 2012, 8:30 pm
"a lot of liberals would blame anybody they don't like for their problems rather than take responsibility for their own lives"
There's that new, fox catch phrase.
Policies shape our lives and environment. 50,000,000 people like me aren't on food stamps because they don't "take responsibility for their own lives". That is sooo ridiculous! Fox keeps you people so screwed in the head, you don't know WHAT you're saying. You just spit out whatever it is they want you to. For that, I hate the ones that do that while ignoring the truth.
You're the ones that don't "take responsibility for your own lives because you refuse to get up and think for yourselves. The constitution says that we are to have an open media free from corruption so that we can be a better informed people but you all snuggle right up to the wealthy's propaganda machine because you look for something to hate and it's so easy to do. I call you the mentally lazy. I never hated people until fox made you all what you are. Traitors to the middle class. Shills for the rich and their need and ability to suck every dollar out of our economy. Now it's near empty. Poverty is rampant with a staunch ally. You people.

Like I said. It's time for a divorce. We can't LIVE with you and it's clear that you don't want to live with us and our social democracy. What do you say? Can we get this done? Draw a line from VA to AZ and get tf out of our country and we'll stay out of yours. See who ends up with more equality, rights and a better economy. Want to bet who would be happiest, Stephan?

Past Member (0)
Wednesday December 19, 2012, 8:32 pm
It all adds up and we're sick of the Reaganomics down turn we took in the 80s. It's all political. It's the reason and we have to look at that. Why pretend it's something else?

Past Member (0)
Wednesday December 19, 2012, 8:33 pm
@ Angelica, You are so in touch with reality. Love you, mean it.

Carolyn Nord (0)
Wednesday December 19, 2012, 9:35 pm
The children...the children, the bright-eyed anything is possible children,

those innocent are-we-there-yet youngsters, open to anything, ready for anything, looking for excitment...

those glorious, active little beings clamoring look-at-me, look-what-I-can-do, watch-me-mom, watch-me-dad, children.

Our children...all colors, all sizes, all aglow with new insights, wonderful discoveries, fantastic feats...

artistic, musical, athletic children, shy, charming, engaging children...

skipping, drawing, singing, splashing, squealing, laughing, delightful tiny lights in perpetual motion...

One moment here, fully vibrant, alive, shining with potential and endless possibilities...

The next moment - cut off with cruel and deafening finality from our grasp by shots fired in anguish by yet another damaged child, himself.

"Guns don't kill people; people kill people!" The echo of this logic resounds as if it were proof beyond thought that guns are as innocent as the children they've laid to rest. Were I to aim my hand at you, index finger pointed as a gun barrel at you and shout "Bang!" as in the past childhood roustings of play, you might fall to the ground clenching your chest, moan, and lay motionless, dead, for what? All of several seconds before you'd spring up, rebounding to continue the play. Had that been a real gun, how would this scenario be different? "Guns DO kill people; people with GUNS kill people!"

It's time, America! Time to end our escalated capacity for mass-assault weaponry, our I'm-more-powerful-than-you because I have a gun mentality. Time to endf senseless killing. "I'm-the-biggest, baddest-of-all 'cuz I have a gun!" state of mind. Here's the reason...

The children...the children, the bright-eyed anything is possible children,

those innocent are-we-there-yet youngsters, open to anything, ready for anything, looking for excitment...

those glorious, active little beings clamoring look-at-me, look-what-I-can-do, watch-me-mom, watch-me-dad, children.

Our children...all colors, all sizes, all aglow with new insights, wonderful discoveries, fantastic feats...

artistic, musical, athletic children, shy, charming, engaging children...

skipping, drawing, singing, splashing, squealing, laughing, delightful tiny lights in perpetual motion...

On the edge to soak in all the living they can for yet another day - tomorrow!

- A tribute to the children whose lives were forfeited in Newtown, CT.

Stan B (123)
Wednesday December 19, 2012, 11:38 pm
Thanks for your very moving post, Carolyn. Green star on its way.
Jason. You just don't get it and I'm never going to be able to enlighten you.

Eliza J (7)
Thursday December 20, 2012, 2:35 am
Re-posting the petitions from the White House Petition web site:
This has 194,731 signatures and I believe was the petition cited in the NY Times yesterday as having received 130,000 signatures up to last Tuesday!! Keep them coming:

A more recent one for an immediate ban by Presidential order on military type assault weapons and ammunition until Congress makes them illegal:

Westboro as a hate group (225,470 signatures):

It is really important to keep the momentum going. The NRA is biding its time until passions subside and the slaughter of these children and their teachers is but a sad memory. Then they will push back and punish those lawmakers who stood up against them as they always do after these tragedies, and will then continue to spew their hateful culture and politics.

Please please spread the petitions via whatever means.

Thank you.

Patrice M (84)
Thursday December 20, 2012, 8:42 am
Hey Jason! I love you too!

Past Member (0)
Thursday December 20, 2012, 9:23 am
@ Stan...Typical non response from a fox head. Can't you speak? Does reason keep you from expressing your beliefs or are they some one else's that you blindly support?

Give it a try for a change. Tell me what it is I don't get.

Patrice M (84)
Friday December 21, 2012, 9:26 pm
"Slaughter" is the correct term. The NRA and the GOP, working together, have set up the scenario for slaughter in every town in the USA for the lucrative benefit of gun manufacturers. Is this not obvious to the republicans? Have you all never looked at the amount donated to the GOP by the NRA during an election?

And does the NRA, wrapping itself in the second amendment, really represent the needs of any Americans in today's world?

Stephen Brian (23)
Friday December 21, 2012, 10:17 pm
Hi Jason,

Is that the new Fox catch-phrase? I've been hearing it for well over a decade, and I don't even watch Fox.In fact, it comes from the view that "policies shape our environment": The conservative assumption is that we shape our own environments. That is the essential difference between conservatives and liberals: Liberals assume that people, without interference, will succeed (by whatever definition of "success" the liberal in question decides to impose). Essentially, they assume that success and failure come from extrinsic causes, while conservatives assume that they come from intrinsic ones. The liberal assumption implies very directly that failure is due to a lack of freedom or power to succeed. In that case, there is no moral responsibility on the part of those who "fail" in any way, whether financially, behaviourally, or otherwise.

That alone is not a problem. I have no trouble with the liberal assumption, and actually take it myself. Yes, I am a liberal, just a very moderate one. My problem is with those who either take its acceptance to be a moral imperative, and treat it as an axiom, directly demand an unreachable standard of evidence to disprove it in any given case, or engage in such group-think, bolstering, and confirmation-bias that they effectively do so. While they may intellectually accept the idea of personal responsibility, whether they realize it or not, they cannot accept that it applies to failure in any specific case, whether their own failures or those of others.

The reason I tend to go politically conservative is that liberal organizations and movements cannot recognize extremism within their ranks and leadership. Seriously, what do you think a liberal extremist does in practice? Can you point to a few? Like other extremists, they warp their view of reality to fit their assumptions rather than accept that those assumptions may be wrong so they are not reasonable people. I would rather follow conservatives, who recognize the racists (who take the "intrinsic causes for success or failure" idea to its extreme) and other extremists among their ranks, than liberals, among whom extremists are not even recognized, let alone booted to the fringes.

On the other hand, the more you write, the more you convince me that you do, in fact, fall into this troubling category: For example,
"Policies shape our lives and environment"
"fox made you all what you are"

As for your idea about a divorce, I saw a thread about that on a conservative forum. We did the math. Believe me, you don't want to see what happens if conservatives and liberals stop playing nice with each other. Do you remember which one held the cities and which held the farmland in the last election? As for getting the rest of those goods to cities, which keep themselves roughly two days from nearly-everything-shortages, do you know which one major union actually goes heavily GOP? Before that divorce, you had better fill your refrigerator. Also, where exactly do you think all of the poor people would go? As for going state-by-state, people talk about how red states take more from the federal government than they put in and then call them the real moochers, and that would make sense if the federal government's budget were balanced. On average, however, states take roughly 50% more than they put in because that is the federal government's deficit-to-revenue ratio. Losing $20 billion per year instead of its share of the U.S. federal deficit would, for example, leave Texas in much better shape economically.

jo M. (3)
Saturday December 22, 2012, 12:00 am
Great comments, Stephan.

Jason, I don't understand your assumption that all conservatives, or conservative notions, are shaped entirely or even partly by Fox news. You do realize that conservatives have been around longer than Fox has, don't you? I have noticed far more hatred and mean-spiritedness among those who lean left than those who lean right, at least on this site.
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