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Stockholm Is Burning: Why the Swedish Riots Bode Ill for Europe

World  (tags: world, politics, violence, europe, conflict, society, news )

- 1824 days ago -
Rampaging immigrant youths have upended the country's reputation as a prosperous refuge

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mag.w.d. Aichberger (34)
Friday May 24, 2013, 4:27 am
> if violence can break out on the placid streets of Stockholm, it could seemingly break out anywhere.
it can, and it (kinda unavoidably) will ...

and what are our dear governments doing ? -- NOTHING to alleviate the real problems; and much to make them worse, while boosting surveillance, preparing the military for INTERNAL intervention, ...


i hope, all the EU-citizens amongst You are already supporting the European Citizens' Initiative for an Unconditional Basic Income / EU-Bürgerinitiative für ein Grundeinkommen ?

Past Member (0)
Friday May 24, 2013, 4:49 am
Not sure you can take in so many immigrants so quickly and hope to assimilate them.

Past Member (0)
Friday May 24, 2013, 5:03 am
"The chaotic scenes are at odds with Sweden's reputation as a liberal model of prosperity, social security, and openness. The riots reportedly started in reaction to Swedish police killing a 69-year-old machete-wielding man earlier this month. But the ferocity and duration of the violence has shocked locals, who say they're at a loss to explain it."

Agree with John.

Gene J (290)
Friday May 24, 2013, 7:37 am
"The rioting has already raised questions about Europe's struggle to assimilate its large immigrant populations. Because if violence can break out on the placid streets of Stockholm, it could seemingly break out anywhere.'

This saddens me, being of 100% Swedish ancestry, 4th generation on one side, 2nd on the other. We brought our social values to Minnesota with us, we've long been, though this too is changing due to immigration from red states, not other countries, the most progressive state in the union. But this pattern is playing out all over Europe and to call it what it is, is necessary. These are not immigrants from other European countries, these are from Sharia ruled countries. England has the same problem and one of their immigrant imam's was caught on tape telling his congregation to stay on welfare, to drain the resources of the infidels. Their objective is to have Islam and Sharia rule the world, they start small, peacefully, seeming to assimilate, but as their population grows so too then come the demands for special recognition for Islam, even in countries like the US which is secular, not religious. They riot and burn cars and throw rocks all over Europe over the most slight of perceived insults to Islam. Norway has its own share, as does France, the problem is festering in Germany. These do not intend to assimilate, they intend to dominate and their methods are now clear, and they make no attempt to hide their true intent. Everyone must be Islamic or killed, and they don't seem to much care which. If there ever is a third world war, it will be this that is at the heart of it. I don't have an answer other than to round them up and send them back where they came from, they have no intention of joining your society, they intend to destroy it. When immigrants commit crimes, they are deported. This is the only hope European governments have of avoiding more of what this story describes. They do the same thing in middle eastern countries where they are already in power, but to let that spread to the rest of the world is a mistake, one we will one day come to rue if we allow this kind of behavior to go unchecked. We have cultures and traditions and rights too, bending over backwards, appeasing that rage which is not directed at a single incident but at the society they are living in, is not going to work and this will get a lot worse unless the rest of the world grows a spine and says enough, this is not acceptable here, go home.

Past Member (0)
Friday May 24, 2013, 7:48 am

Past Member (0)
Friday May 24, 2013, 9:06 am
All this happy ever after multiculturism is not working when will the governments realise this instead of keep pushing it on people and putting words in our mouths that we dont say

Stephen Brian (23)
Friday May 24, 2013, 9:50 am
Swedes are at a loss to explain it. I'll give it a try:

Both sides of overall European politics are run by racists, so how did they think ethnic relations would work out? The xenophobic anti-immigrant side is pretty obvious about its attitudes. They see, rightly or wrongly, immigrant communities as a major source of problems. They want to limit their sizes and, ideally, assimilate them until they culturally join the native population. The liberal side is arguably even worse: European liberals want special treatment for minority-communities, treating their members differently under the law and by government-programs, formally recognizing them, by law, as separate from the native population and making every effort to keep them so.

Arguably worse, these communities first arrived in wave-migration following WWII. They set up culture-sustaining institutions and insulated themselves before they could integrate or assimilate. Check the global history of longstanding unassimilated immigrant-communities: They all had wave-migration. The reverse is true, I think, of assimilated ones: They all started with trickle-migration. Of course, that alone is not a reason for this sort of trouble. The Irish in Canada and the U.S. don't rebel because even if they still identify themselves as Irish, they did not face institutional racism like what is rampant in Europe.

Is it any wonder these people never integrated socially or economially? Is anybody on Care2 not familiar with the effects of having two sets of people which really do not identify as members of the same overall group, living in proximity, one with far more wealth than the other?

Winn A (179)
Friday May 24, 2013, 10:56 am
If you immigrate to a country then you need to be part of the economy and not a drain on it. Adopt the language, celebrate your new home land and keep your values from the country of your origin. Be proud of where you came from but If you commit a crime then deportation is the answer. Be a part of what your new country has to offer and take advantage of being a productive member of society.

Roger G (154)
Friday May 24, 2013, 11:23 am
totally agree with Gene, let them go back to Saudi Arabia and other sharia ruled countries...

mar l ene dinkins (264)
Friday May 24, 2013, 2:21 pm
noted Cal thx!!!!!!

lee e (114)
Friday May 24, 2013, 4:59 pm
Ugh - sadly noted, but don't know enough to make an assessment, it does seem that this allowance of immigration on such a large scale, wasn't thought out on the EU side - I wouldn't know how to deal with the problem, especially 'after the fact".

Mitchell D (87)
Friday May 24, 2013, 7:09 pm
I agree, Lee, but it does seem that Gene and Stephen do have some very valid points.
Winn, I like your point of view, but, if integration is not really their intent, send them home.

John B (185)
Friday May 24, 2013, 7:20 pm
Thanks Cal for the link to the article by Mr. Maass. Sad situation and it will be interestin to see how the Government responds. Read and noted.

Friday May 24, 2013, 10:15 pm
I am afraid that this problem is not go ing to go away and will only escalate all over the world.. The resolution to the problem woult be so complex and would involve the whole psyche of the population to change and the attitude of governments to change and there would have to be a totally different society formed. One of sharing and caring and people sharing their houses and being willing to do without so much materialism so that others could find jobs. The family unit would have to be one of stability and love and ethics would have to be taught from birth and just SOOOO Many other Utopian things would have to take place for this sort of destrucive behavour from bored and angry and poor and depressed youths to stop! I am afraid that Nancy is right.. The world is full of bigots and if it is not one group of people who is being victimised, it will be another. Everyone wants to push out immigrants because they fear their standard of living and their jobs are at threat, We are basically not a loving and altruistic species! Children take the attitudes from their parents and so if we say that it is society that has to change... then there is not other way than to target children and teach them how to make changes. The only trouble is that even on Care 2, although most people are loving and caring and love humanity and the environment, we still see bigotry and anger! We MUST all watch our attitudes and everything we do must be positive and loving and never lose our strong desire to make good changes take place on our planet.

Billie C (2)
Friday May 24, 2013, 10:23 pm
until they ship them back from where they came from the problems will only get worse. they don't want to become part of their new country they want to take it over. muslims can't and won't live with others. they need to be in muslim only countries. ship them to the muslim country of their choice and if they won't pick one do it for them.

Johan M (166)
Saturday May 25, 2013, 12:01 am
Although violence and destruction is utterly wrong and should be condemned, it is also not hard to see why there is so much frustration among these youngsters. The root causes are segregation, poverty and failed integration - actually, ghettoisation. Many towns and cities not just in Sweden but all over Europe are becoming more and more divided and unequal. The poor are just getting poorer while the rich are getting richer. Many people see no way out, and feel like politicians and society has falled them - which is largely true

These social problems are especially large among new immigrants, who are often the most vulnerable in tough economic times like these. And when immigrant populations live largely separated from natives and the two seldom meet, prejudice on both sides grow. This makes integration even harder - an integration which is tough already from the start with the very different cultures between the conservative, religious countries in the Middle Eastern and Africa that most of Europe's immigrants come from, and the secular and progressive culture of their new home countries.

I believe that the key to solving this problem is dialogue and meeting and better integration between natives and immigrants. Immigrants need to feel that they belong in their new home of course - that they are accepted and welcomed, and that this is their home too as much as the natives' - but also that they must respect and accept the culture and laws of their new home. And of course, a lot more jobs need to be created to lift people out of poverty, isolation and hopelessness. Until these issues are fixed, I'm afraid that a cut in immigration of new people is needed, to not make the situation getting even more out of hand than it is now.

berny p (23)
Saturday May 25, 2013, 1:40 am




Stan B (123)
Saturday May 25, 2013, 2:12 am
Many of us have been predicting this chain of events. It is wishful thinking to allow uneducated, Islamic indoctrinated immigrants from third world countries into European countries and expect them to integrate.
This was never going to happen. Their allegiance is to their religion not their adopted country.
Angela Merkel, the German Chancellor, has already stated that multi-culturalism has failed in Germany and it's failing everywhere else. Just ask the Swedes and the Brits and the Norwegians for starters.

Ken Y (3)
Saturday May 25, 2013, 2:42 am
not an immigration economic problem.

lee e (114)
Saturday May 25, 2013, 4:27 am
As I said previously I don't know enough to assess the situation, and while I did think that Gene made some valuable points, I hate to think that a religious "takeover" is prompting the rise in violence, and actually don't. I would tend to agree with Nyack and Johan, and say that the inequitable wealth distribution among all Western countries is creating a fear/violence reaction among the most impoverished - in this case the immigrants are infringing on the already impoverished creating an impossible situation and the immigrants perhaps resort to their own methods of fighting back, which may include religious motivations, while it seems that there is little that the governments are prepared to do in making a smooth transition for said immigrants. Yes it seems that to assimilate into another culture it behooves the immigrant to learn the language and be prepared to give back to their newly adapted environment, but it's also the responsibility of the "adopting" nation to recognize these problems and see if they can adequately prepare immigrants for integration, meaning that they can assist in the language barriers, and provide adequate housing and jobs to assimilate these people into their society.
I doubt very much that it is the intention of the immigrants to enter into foreign cultures to empirically change those nations to Sharia law, they are far too impoverished, but inequity and bias, racial bigotry and hatred will provoke almost any human to respond in the most familiar rebellious ways of their own culture.
Just random thoughts, nothing concrete here (thinking aloud).

. (0)
Saturday May 25, 2013, 5:13 am
I read the article with interest and many of the comments made by Care2 members as well. It is now up to European Governments to take action, I wish that I was confident that they will do so.

Donna Hamilton (159)
Saturday May 25, 2013, 10:04 am
When will our cowardly politicians even admit the problem exists, never mind actually do something to rectify the situation?! I fear they won't wake up until it's far too late......

Gillian M (218)
Saturday May 25, 2013, 10:48 am
This started before the murder of Lee Rigby and has been going on for a week now.

I have no doubt that the police are totally fed up in dealing with Muslim problems, as example of which is that they have found that almost all rapes have been committed by them. They have continually attacked Jews and have forced most of them out of the country.

It is easy for people like Nyack to badmouth the police force, made up of people not robots, as she has little to no understanding of the problems. Perhaps she should do her own research before making such judgements. In an ideal world they should not make these comments but this is far from that and this Muslim community has stretched Swedish goodwill to breaking point.

Gillian M (218)
Saturday May 25, 2013, 10:51 am
This article may be 2 years old but it is still relevant.

European 'No-Go' Zones for Non-Muslims Proliferating

Scott haakon (4)
Saturday May 25, 2013, 2:15 pm
The problem are all about assimilation. The Islamic radical use terror to enforce non assimilation. So then as number grow they want the other to live by their standards. Time to stop the flow of peoples who will not assimilate and send them back to their home countries.

Lois Jordan (63)
Saturday May 25, 2013, 2:17 pm
I agree it is the austerity imposed on most of Europe that's really the key here....along with some racism. If you "welcome" people from another country to enter your country, shouldn't they have either a job ready for them....or else a place for them as a student? Are they taken in as "refugees?" Take any city or town, put a bunch of "new citizens" there without jobs or daily routines, and what do you expect? Was it expected that these people be allowed in as "immigrants" only to mask the economic failure of the system to provide for its natural citizens in the first place?

Henrik Thorsen (31)
Saturday May 25, 2013, 3:11 pm
It's obviously a clash of cultures, no European country has succesfully managed to assimilate immigrants from islamic countries. We will see much more like this in the future.

Jean C (18)
Saturday May 25, 2013, 3:18 pm
Just wait til that happens here. But make sure to hand in your guns and bend over first...

Jean C (18)
Saturday May 25, 2013, 3:26 pm
Nyack - I could care less what anyone calls me. Love god and nature, be honest and kind, and you would care less too...

Jean C (18)
Saturday May 25, 2013, 3:28 pm
And Nyack - nobody should be insulting the monkeys and rats, for they are less evil and selfish than people are.

Jean C (18)
Saturday May 25, 2013, 3:32 pm
And, and Nyack - many people will use any excuse to go nuts and and act violently. It is well past its time for the world to implode so that all of the evil and its resultant suffering will end.

Bryna Pizzo (139)
Saturday May 25, 2013, 3:43 pm
This is so very tragic. When will people learn that there is only one race-the human race. We humans originated in Africa. We are brothers and sisters sharing one planet. We will destroy ourselves if we don't come togethern and help one another. When people can not earn a living that provides for their basic needs, and they are treated like animals, they will rise up. It reminds me of the French Revolution, the riots in New York, and in Los Angeles. People must have the abilibty to live with dignity. People need to have the ability to earn a living that brings in enough money to provide food, clothing, and a roof over their head. People must recognise this basic necessity. If we do not, we will all suffer the consequences. We are responsible. We can hate and argue, or we can put all of that aside and put our heads together and work together to come up with a solution. I'm for the later. What do you all think?

Jean C (18)
Saturday May 25, 2013, 3:44 pm
And it starts at the top.

Jean C (18)
Saturday May 25, 2013, 3:48 pm
Bryna Pizzo - I'm voting for you for president.

Birgit W (160)
Saturday May 25, 2013, 3:53 pm
If the immigrant youths have a problem that the Swedish police killed a 69-year-old machete-wielding man send them all home to their original country.
But young people all over the world are struggling to find a job. It is not just a problem in Sweden.

. (0)
Saturday May 25, 2013, 3:54 pm
They need to stop rioting and calm down.

Colleen L (3)
Saturday May 25, 2013, 6:30 pm
So sad to read about this things happening. Why can't people just be glad to be alive and well? Plus learn to leave in peace and harmony? Thanks Cal

Betty Kelly (4)
Saturday May 25, 2013, 6:56 pm
Destructive riots do not solve problems.

Fred Krohn (34)
Saturday May 25, 2013, 6:57 pm
'The DJ resigned today, they wouldn't let him have his say.
Surface scratched where the needle plays... Uzis on the street corner!'
Marillion's 'White Russian' is suddenly a very appropriate song.
'Where do we go from here?'

Jennifer Ward (40)
Saturday May 25, 2013, 8:27 pm
Wealth distribution is the answer some of you say? How naive- it's moey for nothing that is at the heart of this problem. There are no jobs for unskilled non-Swedish speaking people and they live in self created ghettos. Their Imams preach Islamic supremacy and entitlement to idle and disaffected youth in the same way race victimhood has been used to cause racial tensions in America. Islamists call christians and Jews 'sons of pigs and apes'- but always in Arabic and never in the MSM for the public at large to hear. It is hard to understand the attitudes of Muslim immigrants as past immigrants the world over were grateful and worked hard to make a good life and educate their children for self improvement and the advancement of their new nations. Stop making excuses for the rioters- there is no excuse- and the answer to their predicament is in their own hands- stop the multiculture BS and integrate or go home.

Yvonne White (229)
Saturday May 25, 2013, 8:37 pm
*heavy sigh*...Americans are all immigrants, even the Native Americans, so we fought each other & were cruel to those who were here first & those that came after - but we haven't seen that kind of rioting since the Sixty's & that wasn't from immigrants (mainly because America would've DEPORTED immigrant rioters back to wherever they could, not necessarily where they were from!).. But America also has two groups, the 1% Rich & the 99% NOT who may see things come to that if the Mega Rich don't start Helping instead of Hurting the rest of us!

Kenneth L (314)
Saturday May 25, 2013, 9:42 pm
"and no religion too", only thing is there IS religion, and many of them, and many people (a few billion) in them. That's the reality. Anyone wishing otherwise can wish all they want of course. Try to get a billion Muslims to abandon their religion. Same with Christians, Hindu is a religion, lots of them. Gandhi was Hindu. Lots of Buddhists. Etc. Lennon could have said, "and no money too", but that isn't going to happen either. Muslim haters face the same bottom line as religion haters---you can't get rid of one or two billion followers of Islam, and you can't get rid of a billion followers of other religions. Only solution possible is it has to be worked out, worked with, faced as a reality, and as much religious tolerance as possible. This planet has finite space for a whole bunch of humans of different religions and ideals to live on and as a necessity, live together on.

Past Member (0)
Saturday May 25, 2013, 11:16 pm
Please report inappropriate comments containing profanity. Totally unnecessary.

Inge B (202)
Sunday May 26, 2013, 1:29 am
This is not true, it does not depend on immigrants, this is a response to the police violence that has continued for almost three years here in Sweden. Many people have been caught up in the streets and had been beaten and humiliated by the police. For three years, police have been expanded with 4,000 new posts, Sweden has become a police state.
Myself is Swedish for many generations. This happens not only in Stockholm but has spread to many other cities.
The same happened in Gothenburg in 2002 when George W. Bush visited the city, it began with a demonstration but because of police violence occurred a blind fury of the demonstrators, the police fired several shots at the demonstrators and injured a demostrant.
Love, Peace and Understanding

Alexa R (319)
Sunday May 26, 2013, 1:51 am

Nyack Clancy (1670)
Friday May 24, 2013, 11:21 pm

Police hurled racial insults at the rioters, calling them "monkeys" and "rats ..


Though I do not agree with and strongly object to ANY person being called "monkeys" and "rats", can you please point out to me Nyack:

How on EARTH can you justify twisting "Muslims" into a RACE..!?!? Are Christians a race in your opinion?!?! So better watch out next time you hurl insults at/participate in name-calling of Christians -- as you've effectively branded yourself by the self-same logic as a racist then ...

I agree with Kenneth, we have here on care2 an abundance of Nyack-style 'racism' against ALL religiosos -- an expressed desire to rid the world permanently of ALL religiosos(religious persons), except Islam is defended with tooth and nail, go figure.

I repeat Kenneth's statement: "This planet has finite space for a whole bunch of humans of different religions and ideals to live on and as a necessity, live together on."


Past Member (0)
Sunday May 26, 2013, 2:33 am
Nyack says: "NYC HAS", in response to Henrik's "no European country has succesfully managed to assimilate immigrants from islamic countries". I guess Boston has successfully managed to assimilate immigrants from Chechnya too. And as for NYC.... has everyone forgot what happened on 9/11?

Gillian M (218)
Sunday May 26, 2013, 3:43 am
Nyack continually compares me to Hitler but she has yet to point out where I have ever said "All Muslims". Her blanket support for their unacceptable behaviour is more disturbing than the just criticism of such appalling behaviour.

I have yet to see where Buddhists, Jains, Sikhs, Jews or Christians riot because someone has poked fun at them. Which other religion allows the sexual abuse of a new born baby girl and Islam is the only religion that does not allow human rights. If Nyack has actually spent time doing human rights, as I have, she will see a trail of Muslim women and children as non-Muslim women and children (both boys and girls) who have been raped, had acid thrown over them, part of their bodies cut off and killed/murdered. I speak out for all of these people, I don't pick or deny someone help because they are suffering. In fact, I have helped many Muslim women in the UK who have suffered from their husband's behaviour ie DV where they are so battered they can be unrecognisable and their children taken abroad. Nyack, what have you done other than shout, moan and complain?

Nyack, if you are really interested in Muslim suffering, I am quite happy to send you news items where Muslim men have raped 2/4 and 5 year old Christian girls. Where Muslim gays are hung. Where Muslim girls at the age of 5 are legally killed by their fathers because they think that they are impure. Where little children are hung. Where girls are lashed 100 times for being raped.

So Nyack, what do you do?

Gillian M (218)
Sunday May 26, 2013, 3:52 am
Switzerland: Multicultural Paradise?

Nyack, note, I am not responsible for the content of articles such as these, Muslims who do not integrate are.

S M (0)
Sunday May 26, 2013, 4:19 am
What is not spoken of in the West for fear of sounding dictatorial: In days past when people more biddable and a person singly emigrated they evolved politely into the new society.

Since in last decade multi immigrants arrive every month to some country or another to the West they want to keep their religion, culture, dress, they remain mixing with their countrymen even if not in ghettos and do not therefore need to evolve into the host society

The difference is too great to continue running alongside each other without clashes at narrow bends. It is really religion that is the underlining of it all: Islam which is a way of life, law, culture, education EVERYTHING to a Muslim and little in these has changed since the Prophet Mohammed was alive. ..... Whereas Christianity is a religion and these days is something some do on a Sunday - it does not dictate our clothes, it is not overtly our laws (though the 10 Commandments are the basis) Christian countries laws have evolved with society as it changes in the open world of the West, education is not religious based, Christian Holy Days have become days of rest and unreligious socialising, religious laws have become anachronistic in a free thinking society ...

One can continue long on the differences ... It is time to address the differences for the sake of peace in the West; for the coming generations of Muslims as they grow to have interaction instead of mixed loyalties; the laws of the host nation must apply and not imported laws otherwise there becomes a 2 tiered system particularly for the female incomers. Women's Rights in the West are an antithesis to Islam but many Muslim males are accepting of worldliness for their women, this can create opposition within a single family which unfortunate but a sign of the difficulties'

We don't expect 2 countries to live the same (Even EU allows differences per nation) and Islam within a Christian society is as this ... and we must talk, both parties talk and evolve .... Does not mean religions/societies must lessen but look to the practical for peace and common sense otherwise the incomers become an enemy as ever was in the days of the different empires and it a waste of time the immigrants taking that huge step of emigration.

paul m (93)
Sunday May 26, 2013, 5:43 am


Aileen P (40)
Sunday May 26, 2013, 5:46 am
I agree with Gene.

Jay S (116)
Sunday May 26, 2013, 5:53 am
Nyack C is so typical of the radical leftist blindness, hating all that is western, Christian, Jewish, all the while pretending to be all for 'human rights', yet defending the most hateful of ideologies on earth, Islam, that commands the killing of anyone that questions, criticizes or leaves it (like the mafia), all non-Muslims and gays, and demeans women and abuses children, all because their sick, debauched, mass murdering, bandit, pedophile 'prophet' did it and his deity condoned it all. He makes Hitler and Stalin look Christlike.

In Malmo, Sweden, Muslims now make up about 25% of the population and have taken over a whole section of the city where native Swedes are not welcome and even the police fear to enter, where Sharia Law rules and its barbaric tribal laws are forced on all who live there. The Muslims have terrorized the Jewish community so that almost all have fled. It's ironic that Nyack talks about Nazis, when it is Islamofascism that is now causing the terror across Europe against the same groups the Nazis terrorized and hated - Jews and gays.

Malmo was once a refuge for Jews fleeing Nazi persecution until Muslims moved in. Now they are fleeing Muslim hate. Hitler said ‎'The only religion I respect is Islam. The only prophet I admire is the Prophet Muhammad.' —(from "The Mysterious Achmed Huber: Friend to Hitler") and 100,000 Balkan Muslims volunteered for the Nazi military and the Muslim Grand Mufti begged Hitler to come to Muslim occupied Jerusalem and kill all the Jews there - they met many times. Islam shares many of the same ideas and goals as Nazism - killing gays, Jews, Christians and anyone who dissents. Get some knowledge.

Europe has over 50 million Muslims now and wherever they gather in numbers there are soaring sex crimes, roving gangs of Muslims attacking gays and raping women without headscarves (they call them 'uncovered meat'), attacking ancient church processions, like in Nimes, France where the Muslim immigrants have taken over the neighborhood of the ancient basilica and block streets to pray, but they are 'offended' by the traditional procession around the church in honor of the Virgin Mary and police now have to come to protect the worshippers, and that is not the only case like this. Where is your outrage over these things?

Here in Spain Muslims have 2 radio stations, one proudly claims that they are preaching 'positive hatred of Christianity' (but no one would get away with preaching 'positive hatred of Islam' - they'd be killed and Muslims would riot and burn), and dogs are being poisoned because they 'offend' Muslims and people walking their dogs are attacked, and Saudi and Moroccan millions flood into the country to teach hatred of western values and culture and telling Muslims not to assimilate. But you probably think this is fine, as long it is Muslims.

Islam is the only religion on earth that teaches killing nonmembers, apostates and critics, gays, and condones the raping of little girls by filthy old pedophiles (Mohammed did it of course). Nowhere did Jesus ever teach such evil and he never said a word against gay people, he associated with women and outcasts, preached love of even enemies, even forgiving those who tortured and killed him. Gautama the Buddha never taught such hatred and violence either, nor Zoroaster, Krishna, Brahma or the Jain masters. Only Mohammed and his hateful deity.

Why are you not concerned about the genocide (the first time the word is used) of 3 million Christians last century in Turkey by Ataturk who wanted to 'cleanse' (his word) Muslim occupied Byzantium, once Christian, of all Christians, and the destruction of the over 3000 churches is still ongoing, along with the persecution of the few Christians that remain. And no one lifted a finger to stop that or criticize it. Why don't you radical leftists ever condemn this and the daily ethnic cleansing of all non-Muslims across the Muslim occupied lands, increasing in brutality. How about the over 80 million Hindus and Buddhists slaughtered in the Muslim invasion of India? The closing or destruction of over 300 churches and uncounted Buddhist temples in 'moderate' Muslim Indonesia today? You are a hypocrite and have no credence.

Islam does not allow for the equal treatment of any other religion of people. Period. Allah forbids it, and if you had any knowledge of what this hateful ideology really taught, and if you really did care about human rights, you'd be condemning its tenets of hate, violence and world domination too. No one is condemning 'all Muslims' since most Muslims don't know any more about Islam's true teachings than you do, but they all know the can't criticize it.

When you start to defend the victims of Islam, including most Muslims, then you can claim to be for human rights, but as long as you defend this obscenity of a 'religion' you are guilty of every atrocity its Orthodox followers commit every day in their obedience of Mohammed's and Allah's commands. YOU are the Nazi. We've read the Qur'an, hadith (the sayings and actions of Mohammed) and sirah, and have studied Islam for over 5 years. Have you? Obviously not by your ignorance on the subject.

Carola May (20)
Sunday May 26, 2013, 6:22 am
Gillian, you are right. Don't let this dimwit get to you. People in the US have no idea what we here in Europe in many places now face. The US only has 2.6 million Muslims (though they've made a European style hate zone in Dearborn, Michigan, it seems) or 0.8% of the population. We have 20 times that many and as soon as they reach about 3% of the population anywhere the crime and demands increases.

100% of all rapes in the last 5 years in Oslo, 25% in Copenhagen, and they are soaring in Sweden too, are all committed by 3-5% of the population - immigrant Muslims, who now make up a majority in prisons across Europe. Of course, NC probably thinks they are just 'misunderstood'.

I just read yesterday about the Sharia no-go zone in the Hague, The Netherlands, where women are forced by the majority Muslim population to wear headscarves, natives fear to walk the streets, dogs are not allowed and Sharia/Islamic law rules. This is acceptable to you Leftists? And our cowardly leaders turn a blind eye. Who is going to protect us from these invaders?

One thing not mentioned in this debate here is that these Muslim immigrants are demanding bigger welfare payments! Not long ago a leading Muslim scholar said that 80% of all Muslims in Europe lived on the dole, and many once generous welfare systems are now teetering on the brink of collapse due to the Muslim influx. (BTW the Social Minister in Denmark dared to speak out and say that Denmark must make Muslim immigrants get jobs and contribute to their chosen country of residence because their social welfare system was nearly bankrupt. She and her family now live in hiding with 24 hour armed guards. Fear is what Islam succeeds with. Nyack probably condemns this woman for 'offending' these ungrateful parasites.)

Many Muslim have fled here to escape the oppression of Islam and others are no more religious than the average Christian or Jew, but the estimated 20% who are Orthodox, true-believing Muslims, who follow the hate teachings of Islam to the letter, make it clear they want to destroy us, our culture, our values and they refuse to abide by our laws. Is Nyack Clancy really defending these violent, hateful thugs? That is 10 million Muslims in Europe alone that practice Jihad and believe violence against 'disbelievers' is sanctioned and commanded by their god!

Islam uses free speech and democracy to destroy free speech and democracy. No Islamically dominated country has true freedom of religion, conscience, speech or press. And no Muslim ruled country would ever tolerate any dissent from its barely tolerated surviving conquered religious minorities. They'd be slaughtered if they tried anything like what many Muslims do in Europe. Why don't Nyack Clancy and all the other brain-dead Leftists ever condemn this?

Kerrie G (116)
Sunday May 26, 2013, 6:25 am
Noted, thanks.

Amanda Ashworth (2)
Sunday May 26, 2013, 7:27 am

Inge B (202)
Sunday May 26, 2013, 7:35 am
immigration is good for the genetic heritage, otherwise it is a high risk of inbreeding, but police violence, no thanks.
Love , Peace and Understanding

Gloria p (304)
Sunday May 26, 2013, 8:14 am
I have to ask why care2 is the only place I hear about the violence in Sweden? Who doesn't want us to know about it?

Rahman Qureshi (76)
Sunday May 26, 2013, 8:38 am
@ Gloria - exactly. We are purposefully being kept from this information by mainstream media because it would destroy the lie that Western media wants to propagate, that Islam is a religion of peace and tolerance. Thankfully there are more and more who are refusing to accept that lie as a result of the obvious Islam-motivated rape, slavery, torture and murder growing more and more in the West. I wish people had cared more when it was isolated to Muslim countries as Muslim women and Christians and Hindus and other non-Muslim groups have been experiencing far longer and worse than what the West is experiencing. But sometimes people only care when things happen to them. Therefore, the effect of Islam coming to the West like illustrated in this Sweden article, is waking more and more people up to see that Islam is not peaceful and not tolerant. More and more are also reading the Muslim sources and reading for themselves how Islam promotes what we see in Sweden. Muhammad taught in the Qur'an and Sunna that Islam is to dominate the whole world by force if the world resists becoming Islamic. First, when low in numbers act peacefully, then through increase in numbers by immigration and birth rate, show more face and rape, pillage, murder all in an effort to terrorize and bring the West under submission to Islam.

Lloyd H (46)
Sunday May 26, 2013, 10:02 am
I have to say that I think Carola May has unintentionally put he finger on the actual problem. First off it is ridiculous to posture the question as 'X-Nation is not assimilating Y-immigrants fast enough', nations do not assimilate immigrants into them immigrants assimilate into nations. The point accidental point is in the reference to Americans having no idea about immigrants, which is actually too ignorant to even get around the block.
The problem with immigrants in European countries is the plain and simple fact until WWII Europe Always Was The Source Of Immigrants NOT The Destination. Europe has until the 20th Century Exported all of its Social Problems via Exporting the Problem Portion of Their Population through Colonialism first and then Immigration. Europe has a history of Importing the exact foreigners it wants or needs first through slavery then through recruitment but until recently never through large migrations into European nations. And quite frankly I personally believe that Xenophobia has come to call Europe home, they simply have no cultural, social or political frame work for understanding or dealing with Immigration that flows in rather than out, that increases stresses rather than reducing them. And then you can add to the powder keg the intense nationalism/regionalism/tribalism that is the basis of Europe and thousands and thousands of years where violence and war were the standard means of political success.
And Rahman, you are either really ignorant of really intentionally ignorant about European and Religious history, so here are a few facts. Fact: World Domination and Conversion by the Sword were Created By Christianity 500 years before the birth of Muhammad. Fact: Christianity from the moment it had the power to persecute rather than be persecuted has done so with vengeancece. Constantine had no problem committing mass murder in Constantinople to eliminate those who opposed the New State Religion, nor did Charles the Hammer or Charlemagnege or most of the Popes or the Inquisitions or the current Government of Uganda.. Rahman your argument falls on its face because what you calim to be Islamic crimes were perfected by the Christians first and Christians have not stopped practicing them.

Alexa R (319)
Sunday May 26, 2013, 1:31 pm
LLOYD H. (44)
Sunday May 26, 2013, 10:02 am
Rahman your argument falls on its face because what you calim to be Islamic crimes were perfected by the Christians first and Christians have not stopped practicing them.


Lloyd, please explain to me how your argument does NOT "fall flat on its face".

Please explain to me how supposedly pin-pointing Christians as the supposed root-cause of Islamic crimes committed here described in this news item is supposedly solving any problem, instead of your argument simply justifying riots, violence, crime and genocide .. (which, by the way, no matter who is committing it is NEVER justified ..!!!)


Lee Hampton (15)
Sunday May 26, 2013, 1:40 pm
Send a Green Star to Rob and Jay B.

Sending a Green Star is a simple way to say "Thank you"

You cannot currently send a star to Rob and Jay because you have done so within the last day.

Lee Hampton (15)
Sunday May 26, 2013, 2:17 pm
Many good responses to this article. Someone asked why we don't see this in our own media.

After six days of rioting the Washington Post finally had a teeny blurb about it, but the obfuscation of the media continues as we are often told these are "immigrants" or "Asians", and people who follow what is happening with Muslim communities throughout Europe know that these are Muslims, and rioting is only one of their specialties.

While many of the European countries have been incredibly generous to Muslim immigrants, offering them free or subsidized housing, education, welfare payments, health coverage, and more, NO COUNTRY has been more gracious, hospitable and generous than Sweden. Sweden puts these guys up in luxurious hotels that most Swedes don't have access to. Sweden has a cadre of social workers dedicated to helping Muslim immigrants integrate, find subsidized child care and jobs, and advise for staying out of jail, and more.

The problem is that Islam is a totalitarian, supremacist ideology, in which Muslims, since the inception of Islam believe it is their Allah-and Muhammad-given duty to get every other religion and culture to SUBMIT to Islam. After all Islam does NOT mean peace. Islam means SUBMISSION.

Muhammad told his followers that Muslims were the BEST in the world. Imams, sheikhs, mullahs and Islamic clerics of all stripes preach that Islam and Muslims are SUPERIOR to all other religions and societies. Not surprisingly, there is a cognitive dissonance, as most Muslims look around at a technologically, medically, educationally, sociologically, etc., Europe, they see that they (Muslims) are very much NOT superior.

Although they have incredibly superior rates of crime, incarceration, rape, parasitism, recidivism, school drop-out-ism, wife and child beating and injuries, honor killings, etc., THESE traits, emblematic of Islam, are not what is going to get Muslims ahead, in an ever-increasing sophisticated non-Muslim Europe.

So how can Muslims, who have been told NOT to integrate with the "lesser" infidels, keep a bankrupt sense of superiority going? By destroying everything they can within Western society.

Non-Muslim immigrants of many other races and religions have come to Europe and have had to work hard to catch up. Some haven't done as well, but they largely see that they need to work harder, and they do NOT resort to rioting. This is a TOTALLY different mindset from the religion of the Perpetually Offended and Pretend Victimhood.

By the politicians, media, academia NOT holding Muslims to behavior expected from everyone else, these elites have created the problem to a great extent. The unspoken message is that Muslims CANNOT integrate, they cannot function in our society, but they're really ticked off and you don't want to get Muslims ticked off because they'll riot or go on a killing spree and kill anyone who they think has offended them.

This is treating Muslims like babies, not holding them responsible, and every authority who has participated in this Biggest Spoiled Brat Making experiment in history can be thanked.

Of course the underlying matrix to all of this is Oil. The agreements with key Arab governments made by the highest levels of politicians, academics, media, church leaders, etc., started in France, (Eurabia) was largely meant as an inoculation against the Arab oil embargoes of the 1970s.

European elites were told to allow immigration from Islamic lands and that Islam had a lot to offer Europe. This was signed onto by the high and mighty of Europe WITHOUT THE KNOWLEDGE OR CONSENT of the governed. This has painstakingly documented in the excellent work of historian, Bat Ye'or, "Eurabia."

Native Europeans, whose hard-earned money is flushed down the toilet of failed Muslim immigration and excessive baby-making, have paid into generous welfare systems that native Europeans have not been able to take advantage of the returns, because the monies meant to be there for retirees has been consumed by immigrant support, and the immigrants are largely uneducated and a severe drag in almost every way on the host countries.

It may be time to make some changes, including cutting off immigrants from Muslim countries, deporting them for a number of valid reasons, cutting off welfare benefits, put a ceiling on the number of children the states will support at let's say one or two at most. Immigrants must swear allegiance to their host country. They must learn and speak in the host countries' tongues. There are many other things to do.

Since the issue of "Prison Dawah" is a tremendous problem across the board in many countries, export these people who have proved themselves criminals back to the countries from where they or their ancestors came.

Energy independence is going to be the way to cut the umbilical cord so that Arab oil states, feeding the problem, cannot keep doing it.


Fred H (31)
Sunday May 26, 2013, 2:30 pm
Nyack Clancy says "Police hurled racial insults at the rioters, calling them "monkeys" and "rats", and you think Muslims are the problem?????????????????? "

They didn't riot because they were called rats. They were called rats because they rioted. I can't help thinking that, when looking at a riot, rioters are the problem.

Jennifer Ward (40)
Sunday May 26, 2013, 2:49 pm
Still here with your racist epithets dressed up as a defense for the poor downtrodden rioters Nyack? So you think the solution to violent behaviour is rewarding the perps with more money, more tolerating the intolerable? It must be a 'riot' at your house then. Rewarding bad behaviour with more concessions and financial reward will only get you more bad behaviour, Look up the word Hijira before you heap further unwarrented abuse on people who are attempting to fix the problem not fix the blame.

Yvonne White (229)
Sunday May 26, 2013, 3:12 pm
Violence begets violence, no matter where you are or who you are. Expecting anyone Not "like you" to support you is really naive if you're setting fire to their cars, etc. Assimilate or go "home", that is the ONLY choice, because soon your children Will & Your culture will be lost anyway.

Rahman Qureshi (76)
Sunday May 26, 2013, 8:42 pm
@ Nyack - you picked on many defenders of freedom and Phyllis, not knowing that your bottom line statement to her is about to bite you in the rear.


You buck and kick over unsubstantiated bias against Christians and Jews, two of history's most persecuted peoples. Jews are still the number one targeted group for hate in America, and Christians are the number one persecuted group worldwide, suffering greatly in Islamic and Atheist lands.

Yes the real problem is genocide, and YOUR silence about it. In all your rants, did you ever express outrage at the genocide of Jews by the Nazis? Did you ever express outrage at the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem (top Muslim leader) who aligned himself with Hitler's Jew-extermination ideology, and Hitler's 100K-250K MUSLIM soldiers fighting for Hitler? Did you express outrage at the Jewish tribes living in Yathrib (later called Medina) who were wiped our by Muhammad, as he took part in the beadings of the last tribe, pulling down the pants of the little Jewish boys to see their genitals? Did you express outrage at the countless Jews who lived under Islamic rule, who had their beards pulled and were spit on by Muslim leaders at they paid their oppressive jizya penalty tax? Did you express outrage at the 10 million Jews massacred by Muslims throughout Islam's bloody 1400+ year history, continuing through today?

Did you express outrage at the Muslim massacring of 60 million Christians throughout Islam's bloody 1400+ year history, continuing through today? Inclusive in that is the Turkish genocide of 1.5 million Armenian Christians within the last century. Did you express outrage at that, or the fact that if someone speaks out about that genocide in Turkey today they'd get arrested for telling the truth?

The answer is NO!!!!!!! You NEVER speak of the 280 MILLION body count Islam has left behind, and being added to daily. Muslims tried to annihilate black people by roughly 90% of 140 million+ Africans dying in the Trans-Sahara slave trade. Where are all the black people in Saudi Arabia? 2/3 of African slaves taken by Muslims were women, for sex harems. What did Muslims do to the black babies of rape? Crushed their skulls so the population wouldn't be "contaminated' by blacks. What about the black men? Because Muslim belief was that black men has insatiable sexual appetites, the black male slaves HAD THEIR PENISES AND TESTICLES CUT OFF WITHOUT ANY ANESTHESIA OR MEDICAL INTERVENTION! Is it any wonder there is no black population in Saudi Arabia to speak of? And where is your outrage over the attempted extermination of blacks? That's right, you've expressed none.

But you have no problem defending Islam six ways from Sunday! The same ideology which believes you invalidate a man's prayers like a donkey or dog would, your testimony is half that of a man's, your inheritance is half that of a man's, you can be beaten, raped by your husband, raped by any man and you'd be punished if you can't produce 4 male witnesses to the rape, you are a toy, your husband should never take your advice, you sleep in the shape of the devil and you are a curse to men!

The real problem Nyack is genocide by Muslims, and YOUR silence about it. The real problem is hatred of women in Islam, and YOUR silence about it. The real problem is the Islamic doctrine of hate, slavery, oppression, tyranny, child sex, rape, misogyny, torture and murder, and YOUR silence about it!

Elizabeth Pugliese (8)
Sunday May 26, 2013, 8:50 pm
So much for the vaunted Scandianavian system. It has just as many problems as any other system because every system is made up of people.

Rahman Qureshi (76)
Sunday May 26, 2013, 8:54 pm
@ Nyack - I couldn't resist you referencing Hindus as follows:

"All I can say- is YOU REAP JUST WHAT YOU SOW, and Karma IS a bitch- the Hindu's told you THAT."

You are so quick to defend Islam and have the NERVE to talk about what Hindus say? If you don't know what I'm talking about it would be of no surprise to me in light of all the ignorance you displayed throughout your comments, so let me educate you.

80 MILLION Hindus have been MURDERED By Muslims throughout Islam's 1400" year history! God only knows how many were raped and tortured without being murdered. And this continues today.

Nyack, I'll type your refrain back at you: "the Hindus told you THAT!" (And the word Hindus used in this context is plural like I used, not possessive like you incorrectly used in your statement).

Rahman Qureshi (76)
Sunday May 26, 2013, 9:15 pm
@ Nyack - you wrote about "150,000 Iraqi Muslims". Where is your outrage at the nearly 10 MILLION Muslims MURDERED, just since 1948 by.........get this...............MUSLIMS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And before you buck and kick over Israel, just in one month alone Black September, Jordanian Muslims KILLED MORE PALESTIANS MUSLIMS than ever died as a result of attacking Israel!

God only knows how many more Muslims killed Muslims prior to 1948. We know from the beginning that the first Caliph, Abu Bakr, fought a 2 year war on apostates. That means he killed liberal Muslims and those who left Islam after Muhammad the tyrant died since the only reason they converted was out of fear of Muhammad. To reference the contemporary top Muslim cleric Yusuf al-Qaradawi, head of the Muslim Brotherhood and one of the most respected leaders of the Sunni world, "If they [Muslims] had gotten rid of the punishment [often death] for apostasy, Islam would not exist today." That's one Muslim cleric I couldn't agree with more.

Rahman Qureshi (76)
Sunday May 26, 2013, 9:31 pm
@ Nyack - you slandered Gillian putting words in her mouth as you viciously wrote, "Get off my f**king case because I do not support your position of "LETS KILL ALL MUSLIMS". I read through Gillian's posts and she never wrote "LETS KILL ALL MUSLIMS". Your hate causes you to put hate into other people's words.

As for me, the entire family of the Pakistani-born woman I fell in love it is Muslim. Half my family is Muslim. So are you going to slander me too and say my position is "LETS KILL ALL MUSLIMS"? I have been exposing Islam to them, and I'll be the first one to tell you there are many genuinely peaceful Muslims, but I'll also tell you that, based on Islamic doctrine, they are fake Muslims. My Muslim dad is supposed to hate me, a Christian, but he doesn't even though the Qur'an ad Muhammad say he is supposed to. The Muslim mother and sister of the woman I mentioned are supposed to hate me, a Christian, but they don't. The Muslims who truly follow Islam, the ones raping, pillaging, burning cars, slitting throats, terrorizing, torturing and murdering, in the example and teachings of their false prophet, those are the ones we are talking about in this article.

So don't put slanderous words into the mouths of people like Gillian or me or anyone else exposing the threat of pure Islam. I love tigers, and I see your image is of a tiger. Why don't you be like a tiger against the hateful teachings of Islam instead of attacking those who are exposing such? Or do I now have to get into Muslim hatred of dogs based on Muhammad, Muslim raping of animals based on the Qur'an and Sunna and Islamic Shari'a law, and how Pakistan notoriously topped Google's ranking for "donkey sex" and other disgusting terms?

Rahman Qureshi (76)
Sunday May 26, 2013, 9:42 pm
@ Nyack, notice you resort to tu quoque instead of addressing Islam. That's because you know it is true what I and many others have written about in exposing Islam, and you can't deal with it. Don't you know that Islamic teaching is that Islam is morally superior to all previous religions? That means you should be able to defend Islam by showing, through its doctrine of rape, child rape, slavery, sex slavery, oppression, torture and murder, prophet of rape, child rape, slavery, sex slavery, oppression, torture and murder, and practice of rape, child rape, slavery, sex slavery, oppression, torture and murder, that those things are culturally and morally superior to Hinduism, Judaism, Christianity, Buddhism, Western culture, etc. When you've done that, which I know you can't, then I'll address the Biblical references. Oh yeah, when you try, keep in mind that rape, child rape, slavery, sex slavery, oppression, torture and murder in Islam are not only considered good things in Islam, but they are applicable to all time periods, not just the past, and applicable to all peoples, not just a specific nation. All nations, in case you aren't the sharpest tool, includes the one you're living in.

Rahman Qureshi (76)
Sunday May 26, 2013, 9:50 pm
@ Nyack -

"If you support a war that kills Muslims, and support killing more- them what do you want me to say Rahman?


Using your words against you, if you support a doctrine (Qur'an / Sunna / Islamic Shari'a law) and practice of it, that has a teaching the world is divided into the house of peace (Dar al-Islam / Muslim countries) and the house of war (Dar al-Harb / non-Muslim countries) meaning it is engaged in a perpetual offensive war against non-Muslims until the world is brought under Islam, then what do you want me to say Nyack?


Rahman Qureshi (76)
Sunday May 26, 2013, 10:01 pm
@ Nyack - let's see who is the sharp tool in the shed and who is not so sharp.

I wrote, "As for me, the entire family of the Pakistani-born woman I fell in love it is Muslim. Half my family is Muslim. So are you going to slander me too and say my position is "LETS KILL ALL MUSLIMS"? I have been exposing Islam to them, and I'll be the first one to tell you there are many genuinely peaceful Muslims..."

You wrote, in response, "Not all Muslims ARE THEM SAME. If you think they are- then you are a racist biggot, and dont appear to me to be the "sharpest tool in the shed either"."

Why don't you actually think before you write Nyack? Please, you're embarrassing yourself.

And yet you continue:

"Actually what is shows is your lack of education and that you have never even stepped into a Sociology 101 class- a required course for any degree in anything."

FYI, I've taken Sociology 101 and higher, as I pursued a dual degree in Biology and Biochemistry. Maybe you need to step into the real world like the rest of us live in and see Islam in practice. Perhaps you'd like to engage with the Pakistan-born women I mentioned? Let her take you to school how, in her own words, "women are NOTHING in Islamic Pakistan. They beat them, rape them and murder them. In my own town a father chopped up his daughter's body in the kitchen like he was chopping a piece of meat, took the body pieces in a bag to the police station and said to them 'my daughter said something to me I didn't like' and the police, knowing Islamic law, agreed to make a gesture like they were doing something by putting him in jail overnight and then let him go." Why don't you move to a Muslim country Nyack so you can experience pure Islam, since you refuse to see it in the primary Muslim sources of Qur'an and Sunna? if you don't get raped or taken as a sex slave or killed, then you can come back and lecture the rest of us about "peaceful" Islam.

Rahman Qureshi (76)
Sunday May 26, 2013, 10:14 pm
@ Nyack - you react with 'screw you" when I turn your nonsense words against you with your own nonsense reasoning, yet you want others to sit back and take it? I'm just giving you your own medicine.

The last time I checked, the USA wasn't involved militarily in the Syrian war, except for funding the jihadists of course. So exactly which missle do you want me, in the US, to fire at Syria? Your ignorance is shining like the sun Nyack.

I don't have any missles to fire at Syria. But true Muslims do have a certain ideology to practice against Buddhists:

In Muslim-Buddhist clashes, in trying to decide who is the root cause of the violence I look at the peacueful Buddhist doctrine and compare it to the oppressive, hateful, murderous Islamic doctrine, it is an easy decision: the Muslim are the root cause of the violence with Buddhists, just like Muslims are the root cause in India with Hindus, Israel with Jews, Muslims with Christians in Muslim countries, Muslims with non-Muslims in Western lands, and Muslims with Muslims in Muslim countries. With Muslims killing Muslims from the beginning of Islam all the way to today, no wonder they are the root cause of violence wherever Islam spreads. Muslims are the first victims of Islam, and the rest of us are their victims.

Rahman Qureshi (76)
Sunday May 26, 2013, 10:23 pm
Nyack - Is NYC a Muslim country? I don't think so. Let those Iranians tell you about the 1979 Islamic takeover of Islam, how "peaceful" that was and how "peaceful" Islamic Shari'a law has been for Iranians.

As for the PC piece of Islam you shared, why don't you actually interview Muslim women raped, tortured and murdered under Islamic Shari'a law? Oh, that's right, you can't interview the ones murdered. Why don't you interview the Muslim women in jail who comprise 75% of the female population and ask them how "peaceful" Islam is in the real world? Do you even know why they are in jail? BECAUSE THEY WERE RAPED! Or maybe ask the Muslim Iranian women who are yanked up by their necks from cranes, alive, BECAUSE THEY WERE RAPED! Remember, in Islam a female needs 4 male witnesses in order for rape to be rape, and any less, like her own word, is confessing to zina or adultery and the punishment is flogging, jail, to be raped, or murdered, or a combination of these.

Rahman Qureshi (76)
Sunday May 26, 2013, 10:25 pm
Keep showing your willful ignorance, vileness and lack of character Nyack. They're on display for all to see.

Your words back at you:

"You seem like some very lonely troll, looking to show someone how worldly and intelligent you are- but? Frankly? I'm not impressed at all- maybe you should try a chat room or something- keep looking- someone will tell you how wonderfully smart you are. "

Wear the shoe Nyack, it fits you well.


Inge B (202)
Sunday May 26, 2013, 11:02 pm
So much anger. The government of Sweden passed a law that gave police the right to harass people who do not look Nordic, the police had the right to stop them and visits them and force them to show papers that they had a right to reside in Sweden and this was used throughout the police saw someone not looked nordic out but even people who have long hair or beards were persecuted too and this is still ongoing, the police also make house calls without having permission to do so, in Sweden, this is called trespassing and is illegal since 1700 -'s.
Love, Peace and Understanding

Jay S (116)
Monday May 27, 2013, 12:24 am
Nyack C, you are so one-sided in your bigotries and reading your profile page that is confirmed there as well in your hypocritical 'love' of animals. You claim to care so much about them and quote da Vinci on equating killing them with murder, then you admit to eating them, thus causing them all the suffering, pain and death you cause them by being raised as a product then the horror of the slaughterhouse etc. Of course, you won't see anything wrong with that either, will you, since you seem to have a way of only seeing suffering where you want to and ignoring that of millions more caused by a corrupt ideology of pure hatred and violence you have adopted as your new cause. What a hypocrite. You have no credibility.

Jay S (116)
Monday May 27, 2013, 12:36 am
And Lloyd, as usual, your pure hatred of all things Christian has you spewing what you want to believe but it is not true. Christianity for its first 300 years spread rapidly by word of mouth under great persecution. Christians formed communes and shared all together and welcomed everyone from the prince to the prostitute, as Jesus himself had done. It was spread peacefully.

Constantine, not a Christian, saw a chance to unite a disparate empire under one religion and chose Christianity, but no intelligent or rational person could ever call what he took and made a department in the Roman Empire as being anything like the pure, non-violent, tolerant and simple-living way of life Christians lived for 300 years.

Constantine virtually destroyed Christianity, replacing it with all the glitter, pomp and corruption of a royal court - furs, gold, gems, intrigue and all that it then became. The "Church" of Rome then set about persecuting those what still believed and tried to live the truer form of Christ's teachings, something the Roman Church has never done. That was not Christian by any stretch of the imagination anymore than the US's constant wars for constant profit for its military-industrial-complex and Wall St Robber Barons could be believed as 'defending freedom and democracy' as it is always (dishonestly) portrayed. Get a grip.

Past Member (0)
Monday May 27, 2013, 3:24 am
Wow. I am astonished and horrified at the anti-Semitism, anger, hate and profanity being regurgitated upon this thread. I have no idea why the moderators fail to do their job when reporting something inappropriate, as there are multiple posts containing profanity, personal attacks and racial slurs from one certain individual who lambasts everyone that doesn't agree with him/her. And on top of that, this is the very angriest poster, recommending others to get "some therapy" because those that disagree have a "personal problem". So "the pot calls the kettle black"... what a way to prove a point.

Stan B (123)
Monday May 27, 2013, 3:31 am
Nyack. C. Your bad temper, personal attacks and foul language have taken this discussion to new lows. It's not difficult to disagree with people without all the hysteria. You need some help with anger management.
If you are going to make disparaging remarks about ISRAEL at least learn how to spell it.

Gillian M (218)
Monday May 27, 2013, 3:52 am
Guys, the problem with Nyack is that she knows that she is in the wrong and cannot admit it. She has nothing to show us that Islam is the kind and peaceful religion that she claims that it is so blame the Jews! It is a common theme throughout history and if anyone can be compared to quoting Hitler's ideology it is Nyack.

Nyack's intolerance, foul language, personal abuses is symptomatic of someone unable to argue facts so screams loudly in the hope that you won't notice. Then, the quotes from the Testaments may well be true but are taken out of context and understanding. An eye for an eye is an example but it is about compensation not the removal of an eye. But Mohammed took much from both Judaism and Christianity in an effort to create a religion around his sex mad existence. To reward his followers he included as much perversion as he could. To prevent them leaving Mohammed required apostates to be killed. All of this is in the Koran which some of us have read and someone obviously hasn't.

Nyack objects to us talking about Muslims raping and other appalling behaviour towards people from other religions but has refused to receive any information about it. Another symptom of wilful blindness.

Try these stories that I uploaded recently

Two Christian Churches in Egypt Attacked By Muslims This Week (there are dozens of stories like this about Egypt alone)

Victims of Forced Love (just one example)

Gillian M (218)
Monday May 27, 2013, 4:01 am
As for peaceful Muslims, of course there are, no-one has ever said otherwise. If Nyack was to read the news item she will note it is about Muslims rioting. This is a feature of their behaviour across the whole of Europe and other Western countries. I would dearly love Nyack to show us an equivalent story about any other religion! Anyway, we are objecting to the Muslims rioting and causing millions of dollars of damage. We are objecting to those who come to our countries and rape and destroy that which we have built on the lives of millions of soldiers. To me those that say that they will not recognise the law of the land and disrespect our way of life and only accept Sharia law should go to a country such as Egypt or Saudi. It is not racist to say so.

But not all Muslims say this and I would be as bad as Nyack if I said All Muslims.

Jennifer Ward (40)
Monday May 27, 2013, 4:25 am
I wonder why the Swedish police got extra powers. Couldn't be the attacks and pack rapes of blonde people and very young girls. And the drain on the generous welfare system. Grow up bleeding hearts- why should Swedish people bear the brunt of US invasions and actions that have nothing to do with them. Swedish Muslims that have grown up in Sweden and become assimilated are fed up too with these recent arrivals behaving like criminals and demanding everything without making any effort to help themselves. Poor Sweden having to put up with this ingratitude and disruption.

Gillian M (218)
Monday May 27, 2013, 4:46 am
Four Iranian men sentenced to death by hanging for sodomy

Where being gay is a death sentence
Iranian refugee who landed in Winnipeg is one of the lucky ones

Iran’s Mahmoud Ahmadinejad: Gays Are “Ugly,” Homosexuality Like Stealing

Past Member (0)
Monday May 27, 2013, 5:13 am
Send a Green Star to G M.
Sending a Green Star is a simple way to say "Thank you"
You cannot currently send a star to G because you have done so within the last day.

Inge B (202)
Monday May 27, 2013, 5:37 am
I'm Swedish, blonde and blue eyed and has a Swedish blue-eyed neighbor who has just been convicted in court for incest and rape of his daughter, the abuse began when she was six years old and he is also a Christian.
Love, Peace and Understanding

Gillian M (218)
Monday May 27, 2013, 6:32 am
Inge, of course that happens in every society. As someone experienced in DV, I can tell you that these abuses go across all societies, all classes and all religions.

But Jesus did not tell your neighbour to do it nor are there any commands in any Testament allowing him to do it.

Islam’s Latest Fatwa Permitting Rape of Non-Muslim Women

Finally! Veil lifted on Muslim rape epidemic
'They are simply living by the 7th century rules of a desert warrior'


Gillian M (218)
Monday May 27, 2013, 6:37 am
Now, to go back to the news story

Why do Muslims riot in Sweden? For the same reason they riot every where else...
By: Nicolai Sennels, psychologist

Why do Muslims riot in Sweden? The short answer: For the same reason they riot every where else.

There have been several attempts at explaining the carefully planned Muslim riots and attacks around Stockholm. Poverty and lack of education are broadcast widely as the main causes of what is called intifada in Arab ("rebellion" or "resistance").

Though we may see kidnappings and demands of ransom as every where else in the world with rebelling followers of Islam, the violent Muslim men around Stockholm have not demanded money. Nor have they expressed a wish for free access to universities.

What we do see is a repetition of a pattern that has appeared everywhere in history and the world today, where large numbers of Muslims live in non-Islamic areas: Muslims attacking authorities representing secular non-Islamic laws - often accompanied by their religious slogan "Allahu akbar". While Muslims embrace the rule of home-made sharia courts, patrolling Muslim father groups and religious leaders, police and municipal institutions are attacked still more often, as the Muslims' self confidence and power increases with their growing presence.

It is not only arrogant when well educated people with a steady income claim that too few hours in school or too little kroner in the bank account make people worse citizens. It reveals an immature and one-dimensional view on we complex human beings and denies the well known psychological fact that such powerful factors such as upbringing, background culture and religion play a vital role in people's choices and values.

If it really was true that money makes people peaceful, all rich people would be exemplary human beings and we should fire our armies of social workers who work in vain to make Muslim integration happen, and give their salaries directly to the immigrants, that seem to be just as unhappy and ill-mannered here as in their home countries.

Islam is different

Islam is not a normal religion, since it does not just concern inner beliefs, but also sets the rules for how society must be ruled, including regulations for Muslims and non-Muslims. According to the Quran, man-made laws - democracy - is blasphemic, since only Allah's laws are to rule on Earth. Muslims are destined to rule over infidels, who in a Muslim society can chose between conversion, become second class citizens (dhimmis) paying protection money (jizya) or be killed. Reading the many hateful statements on infidels and direct orders to suppress and kill unbelievers, one does not have to be a psychologist to understand why Muslims rob, rape, abuse and persecute non-Muslims everywhere, also in Sweden.

Since a part of Islam concerns society, Muslims are not fully able to live according to Allah's wishes, unless society follows the guidelines in the sharia. Islamization and jihad against the rule of unbelievers is thus a religious duty.

What surprises many in our modern, secular societies is that Muslims take their religion so much more seriously. Death penalty for conversion, strong social control and fear of Allah's punishment after death for the less obedient have managed to keep Muslim culture on a medieval level while the most of the rest of the world evolved into peaceful high tech egalitarian societies with a much higher appreciation of knowledge than of faith.

It is no coincidence that it is the Muslims, and not any other immigrant group, that behave in such an extraordinarily criminal way. Islam is an unconstitutional religion that orders its followers to violate basic human rights and commit violent crimes. No one should wish to grow up in such culture and be forced to follow the sharia, and it would be an act of compassion to liberate those who do.

Kenneth L (314)
Monday May 27, 2013, 8:09 am
Yes, Nyack is about as big a hypocrite as they get. In any one of her super-controlled groups she hosts if anyone swore using the f word, like she has twice here, she would instantly boot them out. Total hypocrite. LOL, she was going to suspend me in her music group once for having a 'bad attitude' when she was trying to make a women's rights/feminist issue out of an innocent little video I posted of some dance and music in the 1700's by G.F. Handel. 300 years ago!!!!! Nyack ranted on about how terrible men treated women back then. Bizarre, Nyack. You have no control here though, aw, too bad. So blow and bluster away tough guy/girl.

Kenneth L (314)
Monday May 27, 2013, 8:17 am
Oh and now that this is a level playing field you don't control Nyack, have a go at me please. Make sure you come out with your loud verbal emasculation of men aimed at their male genitalia ROTFL.

Stephen Brian (23)
Monday May 27, 2013, 10:04 am

This thread went wild since I last posted here. Just a few comments and perhaps clarifications on some stuff I've spotted here:

From my dealings with Nyack elsewhere, it seems clear that she sees social inrquality strictly in terms of one group oppressing another. In cases where one group has the power to oppress and the other does not, she immediately has her culprit and, within her paradigm, nothing can ever change her mind. This is a problem rampant throughout Care2 and, generally, among liberal people. The problem is the basic liberal assumption, that people will "succeed" if free to do so, and the fact that standards for success, by any measure, tend to be based upon average performance. Together, these imply that all identifiable statisticallysignificant demographic groups will perform equivalently, that culture and any other intrinsic factors of a group can have no major effect. Culture-driven problems where an intrinsic issue within a sub-average party is responsible for that "failure", completely outside of their paradigm, make no sense to them and they assume that the person describing it to them is wrong or lying for some reason. Then they react with hostility.

The hypocrisy comes from two places: First, when they cannot find a formal cause for inequality, some law or other problem that prevents a group's success, they assume the cause to be informal, a thing of civil society. That generally means bigotry. They don't really think in terms of culture so they don't meaure success in terms of extent of bigotry. They are then willing to accept cultural problems within stonger groups, and condemn those, because their paradigm only insists that culture cannot affect success. Their belief in this bigotry then gets consolidated by people, particularly rfom those stronger groups, appearing to "lie" or "have been duped" as they describe problems beyond the liberal paradigm. Sometimes liberals will try to produce a historical reason for imaginary bigotry, or try to consider how events "must have" occurred in light of this apaprent bigotry, and then they create revisionist history, which further bolsters their beliefs.

This is not to say that the liberal assumption is bad. When searching for a solution to any given problem, I apply it myself. It just shouldn't be taken as an axiom (or effectively so by demanding an unreachable standard of evidence to abanodn the assumption) as too many liberals do. I should point out that they take it as an axiom because they know what dark paths one can go down after abandoning that assumption while searching for a solution, and they consider the maintenance of the liberal assumption to be a moral issue.

Regarding Islam and how it plays into the matter:
I really don't blieve that Islam, as a religion, itself drives the problem. The trouble is three-fold: First, it is, like all religions, a formal code of ethics which changes slower than the culture, sustaining the culture of those who follow it as it was at some point in the past. Second, like Judaism, it first developed under conditions of theocracy so it includes both rules about how to run one's own life, and how to run a society. Third, it creates a community including both Arabs of the Middle East and other Muslims, and the capital of its original theocracy, and its major cultural centers, are in the Middle East. Some Muslims take their cues, at a cultural level, from Arabs. Others do not.

I have posted my theory elsewhere, but I think I should reiterate it here as it would explain the riots, persistence of conflicts between Muslims and others, terrorism, and a lot of other problems.
A global aridification-event 5900 years ago drove humans and animals to concentrate around rivers. Population-densities rose above what could be sustained by hunting, gathering, and very primitive farming. Tribes fought over farmland and hunting-grounds to feed themselves, either annihilating other tribes or driving them from the area. This developed a tradition where the defeated side, expecting annihilation, would fight to the end or flee, and the victorious one, expecting the defeated side to keep fighting if it does not flee, or to rebel after claiming to surrender, would do the same. This meant that even after infrastructure to feed everyone had developed, peace was very hard to establish. Two solutions were found.

The first solution is that the defeated side be left alive and intact so long as it obeys the laws of the victors, pays tribute (taxes) to them, and does not raise any armed force against them. We have seen this from Assyria to the colonial powers. If it raises forces, continuing to fight, the deal would be void and it would be annihilated, as was seen, in, for example, the Armenian genocide..Since then, it has been recognized that rebel forces do not necessarily really act on behalf of an entire conquered population, but no real solution has been found (espcially when they really do enjoy widespread support among the defeated people).

The second solution was that the defeated side be destroyed completely, but not by killing the individuals. Instead, the victorious side would be defined not by blood or place of origin, but by something which members of the defeated one could join, religion. When the Caliphates expanded, those they conquered were not considered subjects of the Caliphate, but clients of the state and foreigners, unless they converted to Islam. I believe Islam was very enlightened and generally welcoming, and a welcome change, by the standards of people living up to about the 1400s, in the Middle Ages, so the members of the defeated peoples converted over time (apparently it took about 800 years for Egypt to become primarily Islamic, but it happened).

One group recognizes peace only when the defeated side's culture is left intact, and the other recognizes it only when that culture is eliminated. No conflict-resolution is really possible between such groups following war. More relevantly here, that mass-assimilation within Caliphates means that post-caliphate societies lack diversity in their marketplaces of ideas, so social progress slowed dramatically when they became monolithic, or when Muslims began effectively avoiding external cultural influence. Cultures differ from place to place even within old Caliphate-territory, but locally those cultures are so monolithic that social change stalled. This is how we see what are essentially 10th-century Islamic Crusaders running around today with all of the social norms of the Middle Ages.

More to the point, that former Caliphate-territory includes the entire Arab world. With other Muslims taking their cues from Arabs, we get riots and clinflicts like we see today. On the other hand, post-WW2 European policies did not exactly help either. Without integrating the immigrants, they left those immigrants seeking cues from the Arab world more often and more generally than they otherwise would have.

Janis B (7)
Monday May 27, 2013, 11:37 am
Wouldn't be at all surprised if this occurred in Canada too. No one who is an immigrant gets other than a menial job because you have NO CANADIAN EXPERIENCE. You can be a doctor, teacher or university lecturer where you come from with a much better educational system to boot but the employer use that excuse. It takes years to get establish and some of the most clever people in the world here are driving taxis or cleaning buildings. It is so wrong.

Alexa R (319)
Monday May 27, 2013, 1:19 pm
Mike and Janis B, have you any evidence at all that it is supposedly the "doctor, teacher, university lecturer, some of the most clever people in the world that have become taxi drivers or cleaning buildings" who are doing the rioting?

Personal experience tells me quite the opposite ..!

Beth S (330)
Monday May 27, 2013, 1:22 pm

Thank you, Stephen, for your most erudite explanation, most of which I agree with, for the phenomenon of widespread Muslim rioting we are witnessing in many European countries, although in this particular case it is happening currently in Sweden.

Unfortunately, I think the person(s) you are primarily addressing – the liberals/lefties – are so hardened, and socially- and emotionally-invested in their mental construct of how the world works, as you so well described it, that it largely serves as a kind of substitute quasi-religious-type faith, and to question and challenge these assumptions is every bit as threatening to them as those in days of yore who were convinced that the earth was the center of the universe. They simply are unable or unwilling to re-examine their construct, because they have chosen to reject any other of the possibilities out there, even though/if they may not really understand them. But it’s good to present it in as factual and non-emotional way as possible, should they have even a sliver of an open-mind with which to absorb some of it.

There is also the issue of not just not agreeing with your understanding of the issue, which is actually one that most of us here agree with. There is also the abusive, shrill, hostile, slanderous, etc., responses to people who disagree with their world view, and I think that needs to be addressed, too. These discussions ought to remain civil, honest and fair.

Beth S (330)
Monday May 27, 2013, 1:35 pm
Shame on you, Kenneth, listening to Handel! What an affront to listen to some of the BEST music ever written! ;) I hope your list also includes Bach (my favorite, but Handel's way up there, too), Mozart and Beethoven, as well.

Nyack, like many of her ilk, ARE incredible hypocrites, and the hypocrisy dwarfs most anything else that most C2 commenters have to offer. I believe it is a result of the recognition that her best attempts, the shallow pc, flawed, dishonest, greasy, and intellectually incoherent tactics that she employs, are unable to persuade, manipulate, shame or otherwise intimidate others into cowering and giving into her.

So she rages at her own inability to control.

When given fact after fact after fact with the sources to support them, she immediately not only ignores the overwhelming evidence, but tries, like a greased pig, to slip out from facing facts by using:

- Ad hominem attacks – personally attacking (and in Nyack’s case, falsely) the person she is arguing with. This is most often used by people who don’t have a substantive argument of facts to convincingly prove the other side wrong. It is also a sign of a lack of good character by the person who resorts to them.

- Slander and libel – Trying to insinuate or overtly putting words into the mouths of people that have never once uttered nor think the things she accuses them of, as she did so outrageously to Gillian. (BTW, I’ve known Gillian for several years, and she is a very compassionate human being, a vegetarian, devoting much time to trying to save animals both wild and domesticated, personally taking in animals that have been abandoned and abused, a staunch defender of the rights of girls and women and people everywhere. Understandably, Gillian doesn’t have an endless amount of patience for the dishonest and abusive like Nyack.)

- Using abusive and foul language/obscenities, as Nyack has done in several places in this thread alone to those who dare to disagree with her. Maybe this is impressive to people with a similar mindset to Nyack, but to others who try to look at the issues objectively and/or present another side to the usual knee-jerk, “it must be our fault” liberal, defeatist, mindset, it is yet more evidence that they can’t substantiate their claims and have been backed into a wall and are reacting with malice.

- Resorting to fallacious accusations that anyone offering objective analyses that aren’t positive about the rioting (or beheading or violent, etc.) Muslims or Islam, necessarily must not like ANY Muslims and are guilty of bigotry is a type of slander. Again, I would imagine there is NO one here, as we have repeated so often before, who does not personally know and feel fond of individual Muslims. Almost always, we talk in terms of Islam as a violent, hateful theology toward non-Muslims, which it demonstrably is, and how many of its adherents act on Islam’s hateful and hostile manifold commands to make the lives of non-Muslims deliberately miserable (and even more often, Muslims of the “wrong sect”.) No one has said or claimed that ALL Muslims or even MOST Muslims are bad people.

- Resorting to stupid put-downs, like telling people they need therapy because they have a different viewpoint than the person who feels threatened by the viewpoint, is another below-the-belt tactic.

- Resorting to obviously false comparisons, like living in NY being just like living in an Islamic country, to support an invalid point.

- Resorting to screaming (in all capitals) things like “SCREW YOU.” This is, or at least, SHOULD BE, beneath the mentality of people here who purport to be caring and intelligent people.

- Nyack, either ignorantly or dishonestly, brings biblical text that was applicable to events thousands of years ago and has little or no relevance for the past few thousand years in order to compare it open-ended Islamic commands to do far more harmful acts that have no expiration date.

- To invalidly bring up texts from the bible and act as if they are in effect today, again is either dishonest or ignorant. The Sanhedrin, the only judicial body that heard capital cases, has not been in existence for some 2,000 years. Even then, if that court found more than one person guilty of a capital offense in 70 years, it was called a court of murderers. This is blatantly at odds with the ad hoc killing with “Allahu Akhbar” that goes on all around the world, every day. Even the State of Israel has no capital punishment, with the well-justified exception of the execution of Adolf Eichmann in 1962.

- There are many other examples of biblical texts being used out of context, and I’d like Nyack to remember that these commandments were only meant for a small group of people, the Children of Israel, not to be applied to any other people. Today there are 1.6 BILLION Muslims and 13 Million Jews in the world -- that’s roughly a 123:1 ratio of Muslims to Jews. And most Muslims are still playing the anti-Semitic canard that Jews are responsible for almost all of Islam’s problems.

- Another typical bully tactic is to try to bully someone out of arguing anymore by telling them to go to some other format or blog, as Nyack does here with Rahman Qureshi – who makes his points civilly and with ample evidence. Who died and left Nyack boss and in control of who and what people can say on C2NN?

Nyack, and people like her, frequently use below-the-belt, inappropriate, childish tactics to try to force and intimidate others into silence. From this one thread alone, I see that some of this is waaaay out of bounds, and I believe that Nyack especially owes Gillian multiple apologies, especially for slandering her.

Often when people like Nyack (not only show their anti-Semitic tendencies) but accuse someone else of something he or she never said or even thought, there’s a pretty good chance that Nyack and others who do this are projecting their own thoughts/beliefs/intentions onto others.

Whatever the case may be, this is entirely inappropriate, and in many ways greatly lowers the level of discourse on Care2 and shows us that a number of people are so bigoted that honest discussion is something not worthy, but controlling people is more important to them.


Gillian M (218)
Monday May 27, 2013, 2:48 pm
Thanks Beth for those kind words and for a couple of excellent & insightful comments.

It is sad that there are many people on this board just air their views and who refuse to accept that other people have different views, some of which are more valid and some of which are just different and equally valid. Nyack is not the only person guilty of such abuse but is certainly one of the most abusive and aggressive. I am surprised that these comments have not been removed as they are unacceptable, not just to those being abused, but to anyone who comes across them.


Gillian M (218)
Monday May 27, 2013, 2:57 pm
Stephen, an absolutely excellent comment.

However, you missed out the part where tribes would go to war just for the extra food, slaves and land. If you have a lot of testosterone charged males in your tribe perhaps bucking for leadership then the best way forward is to allow them prizes from war. Or a large army with nothing to only have to look through history to see examples.


Stephen Brian (23)
Monday May 27, 2013, 8:33 pm
Hi Gillian :)

Thanks. The part you mentioned goes pretty deep. Anyways, I don't think it's exactly testosterone. It's expendability. When the survival of a tribe was in question, the society concentrated around maintaining the size of the next generation. That size was limited by the female population, but not the male. That meant that all dangerous jobs, hunting, fighting, or whatever, went to men while the women stayed safe. To prove their worth for their roles in society, men had to demonstrate the ability to handle danger, and I cannot think of many jobs more dangerous than fighting other men to the death. This goes back to the herd, well pre-human, and it's still in the culture today.

Here is a related post by Sarah Hoyt:

(Just an aside: This would also explain classic sexism in a few ways. If one gender is kept home to stay safe for the perfectly reasonable cause of ensuring the survival of the tribe, which one becomes the hosuehold's public face in society, the "head of the household"? Before society got organized and wealthy enough to police individuals, households were the legal persons, with their rights exercised in overall society by their public representatives, men. Beyond that, if your job was to risk your life all of the time, would you accept leadership by someone who had never done anything like that? With force as the ultimate arbiter of disputes and men organized as the combatants/hunters, expendability and millenia of existential threat to the tribe generally left men in charge.)

Also, the tribes that grew from war, the ones where one tradition of conflict-resolution or the other existed, were the ones that prospered and grew. This is why no purely genocidal tribe ever built an empire, and why the Arabs never expanded beyond their own territory before Islam arose. Natural population-growth is so much slower that they could not compete. Aside from that, way back in the day, there was no such thing as exrta food as a continued supply was never certain. A classic story about that is that of the Pharoahs: They were revered as gods because they could predict when the Nile would flood (because they worked out a calendar). Elsewhere and before that, harvests were never certain because nobody knew when the weather would change, so it made sense to go to war to maintain a stocpile of food.

Alexa R (319)
Monday May 27, 2013, 11:47 pm
Nyack Clancy (1670)
Sunday May 26, 2013, 9:35 pm


Police hurled racial insults at the rioters, calling them "monkeys" and "rats ..


Though I do not agree with and strongly object to ANY person being called "monkeys" and "rats", can you please point out to me Nyack:

How on EARTH can you justify twisting "Muslims" into a RACE..!?!? Are Christians a race in your opinion?!?!

Sure thing- it in the article, if you had read it. The 11th paragraph down-

"The government's response doesn't appear to be helping matters. Witnesses say riot police — wielding clubs and leading snarling dogs — have hurled racial insults at the rioters, calling them "monkeys" and "rats."


So Nyack, your ONLY justification for playing the racist card twisting "Muslims" into a RACE is because other witnesses did the same?

Muslims are NOT a race. Playing the racist card fools nobody.


Inge B (202)
Tuesday May 28, 2013, 1:33 am
It seems that religion creates more hate than love.
Love, Peace and Understanding

Kenneth L (314)
Tuesday May 28, 2013, 6:16 am
Beth S., you have put it all excellently in your long post.
As for Nyack's two f-word usages, if they're still here it's probably because Eric is having a long weekend away.
Nyack has 'Buddhist beliefs'? Yeah, I can just see Buddha walking around going "Screw you! Get off my f...... case! You need mental therapy!...." LOL!
I just wonder where the goody-two-shoe C2 members are, you know, those who are on the 'good side', in the 'good clique', especially the toady so concerned about thread policing and being Little Miss Manners. Nope, nowhere in sight. That's because of their biases, hypocrisy, and egos.

ewoud k (68)
Tuesday May 28, 2013, 7:00 am
What was left out in the discussion so far was that the riots took place in the "poor quarters". Apparently it struck no-one that the well-integrated, working (and well-earning) immigrants didn't/don't take part in these riots. They don', as they have a lot to loose, and because they're living in the system that the rioters are attacking.

It is not so much an uproar from the muslim side against the christian swedes, but it can be brought down to the struggle haves against have-nots, a struggle in which the police and authorities are with the haves, and the have-nots only have their bricks, their matches and their "leaders".

The question is about integration, not only integration in the ideological sense, adoption of ideas and lifestyle, but also integration in the economical sense. These two can't be separated, as practice shows.

Those who are economically integrated slowly but surely integrate also in the ideological sense, the have-nots on the other hand have no reason whatsoever to integrate, what's more, they're rejected and put aside, they're considered of no use and used by the haves to be blamed for all ills of society.

No mixing with the haves, no integration, they -the have-nots - hardly have another choice than to stick together, and then a few leaders are enough to let things get out of hand. In this case the have-nots are muslims, but in the past it were fellow french in France, fellow christians in Ulster, fellow chinese in China, and this list can be completed by other "fellow-".

The muslim versus christian factor just added some extra force maybe, not only in the streets of Sweden, but also in the comments here on C2, but the origin is far deeper than that.

Integration is not easy, and has better results when things (like the economy) go well. In times of crisis ... it's far too easy to blame the other group, to tell them to go home (even if their home is where they actually live), far easier than to share the cake that rests.

Speaking of "sending them home": when France burned some years ago president Sarkosy promised to "expel all strangers who took part in these riots", just to admit some days later that he couldn't as (nearly, a part two or three) all rioters were legal french citizens, born in the Paris region, and so impossible to expel.

Beth S (330)
Tuesday May 28, 2013, 8:33 am
Ewoud K.

In a sense you are correct, I believe, and this is a classic liberal argument. The have nots are angry at the haves, but in this case with Muslim immigration and extremely generous funds by the Swedes to help the Muslims immigrate, get housing, welfare, health, food, social services, etc., the Muslims have been given more than virtually anyone in history to get themselves going on the right track.

The difference here is that they don’t want to go on the right track. They are urged by their revered imams and clerics NOT to integrate, NOT to assimilate with both the Swedish people and their VALUES, because Swedish values are greatly inferior to Muslim values. For most, it is their Allah-given right to take over Sweden and the rest of the free world and bring it under Islamic law.

There are poor people in most every country, and guess what? If they’re not Muslims, they largely don’t riot.

In addition, Muslims all over the west have worked out the system. Let me put an article here by Daniel Greenfield that I believe opens a window onto the mentality of the Muslim immigrants coming into places, especially Swedes and how they look at gaming the system.

"Savages of Stockholm
Posted: 26 May 2013 10:22 PM PDT

Europe has many fine traditions. Its newest tradition is the burning car. Why burn cars? Because, as George Mallory once said of mountains, they're there. There are lots of car around and if you're a member of a perpetually unemployed tribe that wandered up north and forages on social services, you might as well do something to pass the time.

Burning houses is a lot of work and house fires spread. Car fires are simpler. In a welfare state everyone has houses but not everyone has cars. Burning cars is a way to stick it to those who work for a living. It's also a way to drive off the members of the sickly Swedish tribe and claim the area for your own. And it's also fun.

Either you have a plan for buying a car or for burning a car. Considering the Muslim unemployment rates in Sweden, France and everywhere else, it's safe to say the car burners don't have future plans that involve saving up for a car or taking out a loan for a car or finding work. Cars are things that they steal, either the usual way or by defrauding social services. They might get a car by dealing drugs, but those cars are disposable. One day they'll have to burn them anyway.

If you're the product of an industrialized culture, then you think of a car as a product of work. You realize that it's the product of countless raw materials, that the metals had to be dug out of the earth, that the machines that make it had to be assembled and that men had to stand around putting that into place. And you might be one of those men. And if you aren't, then you might know someone who is.

But if you come from a pre-industrial culture which may have factories, PhDs and cars, but no sense of the connection between product, innovation and effort, then why not burn a car or a city? Things fall into the category of that which you and your family own... and that which they do not. Anything in the latter category may be stolen or vandalized because it has no value.

The notion of a painting in a museum or a scientific principle or an eagle soaring over a lake having value is an abstract notion to you. Value to you is your own identity. A painting is valuable if you own it. If it sits in a museum, then you can either steal it or burn down the museum. The principle is worthless unless you can cash in on it. The eagle is worthless unless you can kill it or identify with it.

Some people would call that savagery, but that sort of talk is politically incorrect. And we all know that there are no such things as savages. The true savages are the people who use scientific principles to make cars and then use the money to commission paintings of soaring eagles for museums because they are greedy exploiters of the planet. On the other hand, the noble savages whose herds of sheep and goats turn fertile land into desert, who burned the great libraries of civilization and who believe that the hair of women emits rays that passing airplanes have to be protected from are close to nature.

A car is just a metaphor. You drive it to work because you work somewhere. You drive it on family vacations because you don't get to spend enough time with your family because you and they are all doing things. You're not sitting around your house with your two wives and eleven kids plotting new ways to scam social services. You go places because you're still the product of a culture that likes the idea of new frontiers. Your car isn't exactly Columbus' flagship, but it takes you places. It's a sign of progress. That's why you own a car, instead of burning them.

Civilization is not a product, it's a process. You can't export it. You can ship a bunch of cars to Somalia, but you can't ship the process that makes a culture build a car. You can hand out PhD's to them based on knowledge and test taking skills, but you can't endow them with a respect for ideas. You can set up democratic elections in Afghanistan and Egypt, but you can't export the process that explains why the elections shouldn't be abolished after the side with the most guns wins.

That's just as true of a lot of the second and third generation immigrants who are no more Swedes than the South Africans became Africans or the English settlers of the American Colonies became Indians. They may own iPhones, dye their hair and listen to the same music that you do, but they often don't have the same assumptions. They bought the product, but not the process. They can drive cars and when they get bored, they can burn them, because they aren't their cars. They're your cars.

And the hair dye and the music and the democratic elections aren't theirs either. Those are things they took from you and if they get bored with them, they'll put on Hijabs, ban music and go back to tyranny, because what they have is a product, not a process. They walked into the movie in the middle and they like some of it, but it's confusing and they don't understand why the hero doesn't just shoot the villain in the head, take his woman and then raise a dozen children in his lair.

After the riots die down and the fires are put out, there will be more talk about integrating them, but what are they being integrated into; a culture that doesn't resist when their cars are torched? Why would they want to join a culture that leaves you unable to protect what is yours? Why would anyone join a culture that makes you so weak and impotent that anyone can come and take what belongs to you?

It's a movie that makes sense if you were there back in the 19th, but not if you suddenly walked in around 1965 or 1995. It's the outcome of a historical process that is hard to explain to people who were never part of the process. They know how the story came out, but not why it matters. And even if they could, their priorities are different. They didn't come here to meld into some gelatinous brotherhood of man but to make life better for their clans.

Most people plan for the future, they just do it in different ways. In Sweden, they plan to buy a car. In Iraq or Somalia, they plan to have eight kids. In Sweden, there isn't supposed to be a biological tribe anymore. Everyone is meant to belong to the progressive transnational tribe which lets you have the good things in life so long as you make some kind of vague commitment to pay more and share them with others. But the savages of Stockholm already have a tribe. And their tribe isn't big on sharing and is a lot more useful in a tight spot.

While the Swedes save up for cars, the Iraqis scam social services for their eight kids. And the demographics suggest that eight kids and no cars beats two cars and one child. Keep multiplying those numbers and the future will have fewer Swedes and fewer cars and a lot more bored Iraqi kids running through what used to be genteel suburbs looking for Swedes or cars to burn.

The native multiculturalists are post-tribal, but the multiple cultures settling there aren't. It's a war that can't be discussed except with the usual accusations of xenophobia and oppression. But those are useless crutches of dogma. They don't do much to restore a burned Audi. This is a conflict between cultures that make things and cultures that take them, between cultures that live for the moment and cultures that live for the next thousand years of manifest destiny.

The Western ideal has been reduced to a personal technocratic utopia built on efficiency and it has collided in the night with an Eastern ideal of the clan and a theocratic utopia built on total purity. That is the kind of conflict that the creed of good fences for good neighbors was meant for, but there are no fences tall enough to work it out within a single nation.

Both West and East have their own processes. And both processes are colliding. The Swedes bring their cars and the savages bring their flames. The burning cars are a metaphor for the impact of Muslim immigration on Sweden and the West."

Gillian M (218)
Tuesday May 28, 2013, 1:25 pm
Steven, also true but the sign of money and status has always been about the number of women you have as well as the status of their family. Native Americans also used horses, once they arrived, to show how wealthy they are etc.

Of course, it has always been important to men that they know which child is theirs and to ensure that they are brought up according to their standards/way of life. The best way to do that is to own the woman/mother and, if she is not able to bear children, dump them.

In India, ownership went beyond death, suttee.

Yvonne White (229)
Tuesday May 28, 2013, 1:47 pm
There's certainly a lot of wasted effort here, in the comments as well as in the World. Trolls can be cops & rioters & disrupters of peace anywhere. The Rest of Us suffer for it. No matter religion, or social status, or place of birth, the Subtleties of human inter-action are Lost on the Media, Governments, & Corporations that run Everything. So follow the money in Every crime. Do riots enrich Religious coffers? Law enforcement budgets? Para-military contracts? Election outcomes? etc...One thing riots rarely do is help the very people who Need Help.

Cousin It Addams (8)
Tuesday May 28, 2013, 3:13 pm
stephen brian:
"The Irish in Canada and the U.S. don't rebel because even if they still identify themselves as Irish, they did not face institutional racism like what is rampant in Europe."

REALLY? four words for ya: IRISH NEED NOT APPLY. signs of that in every window but i guess that's not "institutionalized" just "universal" racism

you couldn't BE more welcoming than sweden to these ingrates. in EVERY country they don't integrate and are unemployed this is by their CHOICE. they collect their entitled tribute from the kuffar (basically equivalent of the n-word referrring to non-mohammedans) as welfare and free health care, and by command of the koran don't befriend the infidel. in the UK their leaders call it "jihad-seekers allowance" instead of "job-seekers allowance". they disenfranchise themselves by design, which is also handy by giving them a reason to whine about how ill-used they are by the west, while pocketing thousands of dollars in benefits at the same time.

Cousin It Addams (8)
Tuesday May 28, 2013, 3:32 pm
"All I can say- is YOU REAP JUST WHAT YOU SOW, and Karma IS a bitch- the Hindu's told you THAT"

on you go about 150,000 muslims. sorry, was that swedes who killed them? how is this rioting karma for it?

and i guess if the HINDUS told us THAT, maybe you can explain what exactly they did wrong, aside from being hindu/polytheist, that made them deserve to be slaughtered by the millions for over a thousand years right up to now, by mohammedans? a millenium of piunishment? just what did they do to the mohammedans, except offend them by existing as infidels?

they did nothing to deserve it.

check the lost and found for your brain, please.

Cousin It Addams (8)
Tuesday May 28, 2013, 3:48 pm
inge b:
"immigration is good for the genetic heritage, otherwise it is a high risk of inbreeding,"

like how about 80% of mohammedans marry their 1st cousins? that kind of inbreeding?
so are you saying instead of that they should force swedish girls to convert to mohammedanism and then force them into purdah? you'd wish that on other people's daughters? but what if that was you and yours? i'd like to keep my clitoris, wear my hair out without getting a face full og acid, work in any job i choose and have the right to vote, drive, leave the house without a man's permission etc.

i can not and will not embrace a culture that denies basic human rights to half it's population (the female half).

Past Member (0)
Tuesday May 28, 2013, 11:25 pm
Nyack, you are completely out-of-line and out of control. Can you respectfully disagree without attacking and using such language? I don't agree with your opinions, but I will read them, I will respect your right to have them, and I'm not going to personally attack you over them, but after reading these comments, I don't think I want to read any more comments you post. The impression anyone gets who reads these comments, is that you are completely consumed by anger. That is very unhealthy and counterproductive to whatever point you are trying to make. If you were on my friends' list, I would have to drop you after reading this, I would find it quite embarrassing.

Inge B (202)
Wednesday May 29, 2013, 12:11 am
Cousin It

Never fear, we have Swedish men who marry foreign women too, and in Sweden it is Swedish law that applies, not Islam.
Some education: When a population becomes blue eyed and blonde (red-) this is recessive genetic predisposition. You can read more on.

Love, Peace and Education

Inge B (202)
Wednesday May 29, 2013, 12:21 am
Today it is quiet in Sweden and the young people have returned to their parents.
It was the police assault that started the riots. Police shot and killed a defenseless 69-year-old man in his home and this was not tolerated by the youth.
Love and Peace

Alexa R (319)
Wednesday May 29, 2013, 10:29 am
Ha, ha Nyack, are you now trying to tell me that you play the racist card twisting 'Muslims' into a RACE because the pope is WHITE?!?

Come to think of it, Islam's prophet Mohamed was an Arab and Arabs are WHITE..

Just like the pope i guess, so now you think the racist card is the one to play?!?

Phew, what extremely violent comments from you on this thread..

Like Moses, I too would rather simply ignore or skip over any comments from you in future.

I have a lot of better things to do rather than reading violent comments.

Good luck to you.

Cousin It Addams (8)
Wednesday May 29, 2013, 10:56 am
don't let my bond hair fool you. i'm browner than they are.
and i DO NOT support the mohammedans who treat women as property, and not-so secretly (as in anyone who will listen) call jews APES and PIGS. so woo-woo, now they all come back like that cause they got called a name? i've been called worse personally. mohammedans are soft, is their problem. bullies and they still own slaves and that i DO take it personal.

Cousin It Addams (8)
Wednesday May 29, 2013, 10:58 am
blond hair (oops)

Past Member (0)
Wednesday May 29, 2013, 2:38 pm
Now I guess I'm supposed to defend myself against Nyack's personal attack on me. You are most unreasonable and there is no point in debating with people like you. Your "freedom of speech" violates Care2 TOS if you didn't read it.

Alexa R (319)
Wednesday May 29, 2013, 3:24 pm
I could not agree more with you Moses. There is indeed no point in defending oneself when personally and falsely attacked by someone who is clearly unreasonable, neither any point in debating with someone most unreasonable.


Lynn Geth (185)
Wednesday May 29, 2013, 7:02 pm
Ok, now I'll put myself on the firing line because I know Nyack will come back with some kind of vitriolic attack on me.
I remember when Kenneth L. was almost suspended in Nyack's music group for playing music that she didn't deem appropriate for "women's rights". I had a similar experience with her just recently where she booted me off as co-host of an animal's advocate group. She arbitrarily deleted all the groups that I started and had a big following with because "we didn't see eye to eye as to the purpose of the group". What's to see eye to eye about? The purpose was to prevent cruelty to animals but because I thought to lighten it up a bit from all the petitions we were signing and all the abuse we had to see and read about, by having threads of games (related to animals), she shut them down after them being there for quite a while. She was such a hypocrite about it because many times she participated in the games and thanked me in the threads for my work in the group. Nyack has to hold the upper hand....otherwise, if she doesn't feel in complete control, she takes measures to make sure she is. Although I've seen your obstinate side Nyack, I never thought that you were as foul mouthed as you have shown to be here with your comments.

Lynn Geth (185)
Wednesday May 29, 2013, 7:26 pm
By the way, I immediately quit the group I referred to above. :-)

Past Member (0)
Thursday May 30, 2013, 4:27 am
we all may disagree, but I still have the unconditional love that WE SHOULD HAVE for each other, but there is so much anti-Semitism (yes I am talking about you Philistine advocates), I don't know how we can blast through it. It is OK to hate Jews and everything they stand for today, but poke the slightest criticism of Islam, and you have a "fatwah" - (death warrant for offense) over you for the rest of your life. Now what other religion does this? I am so sick of the persistent reality deniers (PRDs)

Kenneth L (314)
Thursday May 30, 2013, 6:30 am
Thank you Lynn, it's always nice to have someone verify the facts about something. Handel is my favorite composer and it was such a beautiful piece in the video that I posted in her group. After all it was a MUSIC group. And Nyack utterly ruined the entire thing. (what really got me too was I had commended her greatly a few times earlier and elsewhere in C2, publicly, for having reached a million butterfly points on her profile page. Then she pulls this stunt on me. If there's one thing I don't like, it's being blindsided. So talk on about 'karma' Nyack.)


wendy kelly (222)
Thursday May 30, 2013, 2:02 pm
I posted before, but as happens with care2 it disappeared, so if it arrives again i apologise.
Nyack I found your comments offensive, I hate the word "Jews", and the posts you posted were racist.
Immigration will always be problematic, it is not helped, when the country a person is moving to, asks the immigrant, to forget the country they arrived from, , then the same country goes on to treat the adoptee, as a 2nd class citizen,
To over simplify what I am trying to say, imagine the country is adoptive parents, the adoptive parents , tell the adopted child, you can live with us, but you musn't think about, your life before you came to live with us, -the child says ok, time passes, the child starts to see themselves, being treated differently to the adoptive parents "own children", the adopted child sees it's self, as always an after thought, always in the shadows, so the child complains, this is heard by the adoptive parents own children, -who say " hold on we were here first, you should be grateful for anything you get here, Next the neighbours hear, they take sides, the situation escalates, because instead of offering advice , the neighbours start making personal remarks , This childish attitude helps no-one.
Quoting the Bible from before the first millennium really Nyack? how does that help? We are supposed to look back into history and learn from our mistakes, never repeating behaviours that were so utterly wrong.
People have the right to speak out agaist the wrongs committed in the name of religion, but we are debating things that are current, not the mistakes of our ancestors, how ever will we move forward.
We should be discussing who has the power, because people are being manipulated, Riots achieve nothing, the people fall into the hands of the manipulaters, who then point the finger and say "see we told you how bad they were, now we must start the process of dealing with the problem, by creating harsher laws"
To encourage people to riot , with inflammatory views and language, defeats what people advocate against, infact people who encourage others to riot, are themselves a huge risk to others..
The riots in Britain in 2011 were not racially motivated, , they followed an incident of the police shooting dead, a man they suspected of carrying a gun, (the gun was reportedly later found nearby)guns are illegal here this happpened in London, the riots spread to other cities, again this was manipulated via facebook, I can tell you now, in Birmingham near where I live, the rioters were people stealing from shops, smashing and grabbing whatever they could, -big screen tv's, mobiles, laptops, jewellery, trainers, booze, cigarettes, some of this was organised crime, people stealing to order, this was no protest.Gang members fleeing the police ran into and over 3 men, who were protecting their premises, other gang members tried to shoot down a police helicopter, there was no concern about who would get hurt, The fathers of the young men killed by the speeding car, called for peace, they were hero's, their plea's stopped further escalation.- Hope you all saw the next morning, when large numbers of youths turned up with brooms, gloves and rubbish bags , to clean up, and support the shop keepers, the message, - we are cleaning up our streets, and taking them back from criminals, they helped the shop keepers get straight, working with and as a community. of course that news doesnt sell news papers ?
The abuse that women face by extremists in the Muslim religion is very real, it cannot be denied, how can anyone deny that a school girl was shot in the head? for promoting education for girls? did you forget Nyack?
as for NYC being a melting pot all welcome, it didnt used to be, zero tolerance was invented ther,e with views that you have Nyack nothing would have changed, see can you answer me without being personal, explain why you seem to want to insult people who follow the Jewish faith? doesnt quite fit what you say about NYC? I really am shocked, you even insulted Lynn name calling again?
As for quoting John Lennon (our working class hero) here is another quote /lyrics re-establishment, -->

"No shorthaired yellow bellied son of Tricky Dicky, gonna soft soap me, with just a pocket full of hope, - it's money for dope, money for rope" "Just give me some truth, all we want is the truth"? - John Lennon, murdered in December 1980 refused a Green Card

Lynn Geth (185)
Thursday May 30, 2013, 2:55 pm
Nyack, first of all I had no problem in the music group and didn't even know that I was no longer a member. I don't know why you thought it necessary to remove me.

Secondly, some of those games that you listed we're not my idea. I was asked by another member to start them. It's odd that you're complaining about it now, when you, yourself participated in these games! Hypocritical, much?

As for removing, blocking and banning me? Your loss, my gain. You were never my "friend", anyway!!!!

Stephen Brian (23)
Thursday May 30, 2013, 8:58 pm
Hi Cousin It :)

Yup, that was common (at least for a little while), but not institutionalized. The difference is actually significant. Rampant bigotry can drive tensions and even occasional violence, but things change once the government backs it. The Irish faced bigotry within the population, but not the host-countries working formally, as a unit, against them. The reactions are far more severe when that happens, even if the actual effect or scale of bigotry is less. Regardless, like I pointed out above, the post-Caliphate culture (as opposed to post-imperial culture) makes a huge difference between the Irish and the Muslims in Europe.

Hi Nyack,

I spotted your comments above, and you took biblical quotes badly out of context. Many people today don't understand the relevance of the context of the quote, but it is important to understand because the same was true in the Middle Eastern Caliphates at the time when their cultures stalled. In the time and place of the Old Testament, government was theocratic. The religion and the state worked with the same body of law. Membership in the state-religion and allegiance to the state were the same. Apostasy meant treason. The second quote is clearer: If you do not accept the laws of the land, and show no intention to abide by them, the penalty was death. In the time and place, when agricultural infrastructure was delicate enough that one person who ignores the rules could kill an entire village by starvation, that made a lot of sense. Obviously, with our much more stable economy and non-religious governments today, those lines take on a different meaning, instructing us to watch out for danger from people who entirely reject the societies in which they live and their laws.

Inge B (202)
Thursday May 30, 2013, 10:41 pm
Thank you all Swedish youngsters who dared to protest against the police violence that has increased in Sweden over the past three years.
Love to you all

Alexa R (319)
Friday May 31, 2013, 1:19 am
Inge, violence begets violence. The more violent the rioters, the more violent the police response, the more violent the police response the more violent the rioters .. it is a downward spiral into increasing violence we've many examples from history to learn from, look at Russia, most of the countries in the Middle East (Libya, Syria, Egypt, etc) etc ...

I would not thank these violent rioters for putting your country on the downward spiral to anarchy, if I was you ..

It sure is not the path of love, peace and non-violence in fact quite the opposite ..

Let's imagine that once your violent rioters have finally defeated in their war the police in your country, do you seriously think they are going to stop their violence suddenly?

An 'Arab Spring' like that seen in ME is knocking at the door of your country .. how you deal with it is up to the people of Sweden.


Inge B (202)
Friday May 31, 2013, 5:13 am
This is not violence, it is a sign that something is wrong in society, to create a debate and it has been done, I live fortunately in an open society where citizens have the right to react when something has crossed the line. This has happened many times in Sweden and with only positive results. This is not an Arab uprising, it's just abroad that they have got it so.
If we do not react, we can have a society that is similar to Nazi or any totalitarian country.
Love, Peace and Democracy

Kenneth L (314)
Friday May 31, 2013, 6:25 am
Oh Nyack, you are so unfortunate. What can I say? Just a common, run-of-the-mill, garden-variety loudmouth that motors on and on and on, making herself right and others wrong no matter what. .

Somewhere along the line you 'learned' that you can control others by being LOUD...and LOUD-ER.... than the other person, SWEAR like a sailor is you have to for shock value, and make yourself appear as BIG AND TOUGH AND MENACING as possible to scare others. All very low level activities. I shudder to think how long it will take you to 'unlearn' it. Won't happen this lifetime that's for sure. .

Alexa R (319)
Friday May 31, 2013, 9:12 am
Inge, personally I'm rather for peaceful protest, Gandhi style. To participate in violent protest is imo rather nazi style and totalitarian as you force with violence others to do as you wish. I do not see how violence opens up discussion?

History shows us that violent protests begets violence until the whole culture becomes violent and try to get their way through violent means. (I mean what has this thread taught me about Sweden? When in Sweden, if you dislike something, violently protest and then you'll get your way ...)

I personally much prefer a country where people protest Gandhi style, peacefully, respectfully and through dialogue and discussion. We often have such peaceful protests here in Israel. When we the people thought last year that housing prices are too high, we the people had many peaceful protests (no violence or burning car, etc -- peaceful and respectful protest outside the targeted buildings) UNTIL we the people managed to provoke a dialogue and bring attention to our domestic issue.

This is what I consider true democracy. Using violence to get one's way is what I consider a nazi style totalitarian reaction.


Inge B (202)
Friday May 31, 2013, 12:35 pm
I am quite sure that the Mahatma Gandhi had liked the young people reaction, it was just material things that were destroyed and no actual violence occurred, the violence was the police. Youth is hot and must be allowed to react otherwise we get suicide bombers and people like those in Boston who kill people, these people have never been protesting in their home countries and carry a big hat. In an open society like Sweden, makes people react and create debate and they're the people who care about their environment and the future. I'm sure these young people become humble fine people as adults.
Love, Peace and Democracy
We have just now received a report that the police reinforcement (4000 more) have not resolved any more crimes but that the insults and humiliation has increased by ordinary people

Beth S (330)
Friday May 31, 2013, 2:14 pm
My post did one of those magical C2 disappearing acts, so I am posting it again, and I would really like to receive some serious consideration on these issues, Inge.

I will re-post on the next Add Comment block.

Beth S (330)
Friday May 31, 2013, 2:30 pm
Interesting, my post keeps being deleted. It has offended someone? Which part. Perhaps the person responsible could tell us?

Beth S (330)
Friday May 31, 2013, 2:42 pm
Who is so OFFENDED that they repeatedly delete my posts? Who is so threatened by the TRUTH?

Is it you, Inge?

Is it you, Nyack?

Beth S (330)
Friday May 31, 2013, 2:48 pm
Deleted 5 times now.

Allergic to the truth, someone?


Beth S (330)
Friday May 31, 2013, 3:01 pm
Whoa! Deleted again, #6.

Are you a Muslim that's offended?

Are you a Swede that's offended?

You know there are SO MANY MORE entries on Google about the Muslim immigrants raping Swedish women

There are SO MANY more stories on Google about Muslim immigrants using up Swedish welfare funds, and most other Northern European countries, too.

There are even more stories about Muslim crime in Sweden and Europe being WAAAAAY higher than native rates.

There are more stories on Google about fire and rescue people being attacked by Muslims who they are trying to help.

You, whoever you are, you can't erase all the evidence from Google.

The stories are all over the place.

Beth S (330)
Friday May 31, 2013, 3:05 pm
I forgot to mention a leftist, who heavy-handedly try to erase the truth, because it doesn't jive the leftist propaganda.

Perhaps you're part of CAIR? And all Muslims are saints?

What's the scoop, you chicken, helper of the destruction of freedom and democracy?

Inge B (202)
Friday May 31, 2013, 3:19 pm
Excuse my bad English, you seem like a very angry woman and very focused on Muslims, I hope for a world where everyone can work together for a common goal. Julian Assange was in Sweden for two years ago and amused himself with some Swedish girls, now he is arrested in absentia for rape. We have a senior police chief who advocated for women's rights, now he is in prison for aggravated rape with a minor and also pedofileri and even Muslims committing rape and sentenced to prison after Swedish law. But this has nothing to do with young people react. When I was young in 1968, we did also revolt and wanted a more equal society between women and men and it did quite well, we also demonstrated to Vietnam would have peace and it also succeeded. I am quite sure that young people have an outlet for their desires, how else would we change society to the better.
I am a farmer who worked hard all my life, and to pay for immigration, I see this as an investment for the future. Sweden is a rich country.
Love, Peace and Democracy

Beth S (330)
Friday May 31, 2013, 3:19 pm
Deletion #7, wow.

Okay Ms/Mr. Deleter,

Did you know that there are stories all over Google about sexual harrassment by Muslims all over the world. Arab countries, Persian, European, Indian, American.

Not only that, did you realize that there are lots of stories on Google about the severely low rate of Muslim students in European countries?

These students drop out, start committing crimes against Swedes, Norweigans, Italians, Germans, etc.

Europe flushes down an ENORMOUS amount of money down the toilet for Muslims. Of course ,not all, because there are Muslims who are very smart and do well. But the ones who drop out and commit crimes are are at far higher rates than anyone else living in these countries, including immigrants from non-Muslim countries.

So what do you think?

Beth S (330)
Friday May 31, 2013, 3:28 pm
Thanks for the star, Inge and being open to the truth.

Clearly somebody (like many of the elites in Sweden and other countries) doesn't want people like you to know about the really frightening issues with Islamic immigration. They want to keep the truth hidden. That will make people more determined to find it and tell others about it, till it can no longer be hidden.

It now seems that you are not the one responsible for deleting. Have any idea who is? Clearly it's someone from CAIR2.

Beth S (330)
Friday May 31, 2013, 3:40 pm
Thank you, Rahman!

Inge, it sounds like my thank you was perhaps premature.

There is nothing comparable in Sweden to the rates of crime in a host of different areas by Muslims. Who would even think that because Muslims have a much higher crime rate in almost all areas, that that would mean that native Swedes don’t commit crimes?

I AM angry that there are so many people who want these statistics and the truth hushed up. If we could talk about it openly, if Muslims would own up to it, if people weren’t afraid of being hurt or jailed talking about the truth, then maybe things could be under control.

But people keep telling lies, keep trying to hide very important information that we should all have open access to.

Your “Love, Peace and Democracy” Inge rings hollow.

Freedom means being able to tell the truth and allowing other people to hear it without being hurt, intimidated, killed or arrested in Sweden.

You don’t have that freedom right now. The people in high places would like you to believe that you do, but many of us have been researching these things for several years, and we know there is widespread repression of the truth.

I like the truth.

If you love people, don’t you love your sister Swedes that are being raped by Muslim immigrants. If you love them, wouldn’t you want to let them know to be careful, carry pepper spray wherever they go, spread the word. Or maybe you don’t love your sister Swedes.

Peace. Can there be peace when the overwhelming majority of Muslims/the umma want to establish a global Caliphate and bring EVERYBODY, including you, Inge, under Sharia?

Do you want to be forced to cover your hair, face and entire body. Do you want that for Swedish women. That’s what Muslims want, Inge. It makes me angry, yes. I want freedom. How about you?

Inge B (202)
Friday May 31, 2013, 3:40 pm
I think you will deleting for using the F word, I used it and was also deleting.
We had the same fear when we had an immigration from jugoslavien the 1960 - century
Sweden has been Swedish for 3000 years
Love, Peace and Understanding

Beth S (330)
Friday May 31, 2013, 3:45 pm

The CAIR2 censors deleted your statistics, too.

The silent silencers. Truth haters. Freedom killers.

What Care does CAIR2 have for the truth.

Beth S (330)
Friday May 31, 2013, 3:50 pm

I didn't use the "F" word. I HAVE NEVER USED THE F WORD ON MY POSTS.

They are deleting because they don't want people to know the truth. I will post it again right now.

Gillian M (218)
Friday May 31, 2013, 3:51 pm
Inge, I am appalled that you are clearly stating that it is acceptable for Muslim youths to riot and cause millions of kroner as that is preferable to being bombed. These are not children, they are adults and this is how they are behaving, they won't suddenly change character and become peaceful.

I strongly object to a particular segment of any population making demands strictly for them and attempting to enforce it by violence. These are immigrants who had nothing who have been welcomed into the Swedish community to make a new life. They were welcomed with open arms and given opportunities that they didn't even dream of before arrival. And now they bite the hand that was held out in friendship!

Personally, I think Ghandi would be appalled at the violence and senseless destruction of any minority but I suppose that you must have known him really well, oh, you didn't, did you? You must have mistaken his peaceful policies with Attila the Huns.

Inge B (202)
Friday May 31, 2013, 3:52 pm
Talk to you tomorrow, the time is soon 1:00 at night here in Sweden and I will work hard in the fields tomorrow

Gillian M (218)
Friday May 31, 2013, 3:53 pm
And just to show how peaceful and desirous they are of settling down, a large percentage of rapists are Muslim. Just for the hard of reading/thinking, not all Muslims are rapists but an incredibly large number of rapists are Muslim, 77% of them.

1 in 4 Swedish Women Will Be Raped as Sexual Assaults Increase 500%

Muslim Immigrant: "Raping Swedish Women is not as Wrong"


Beth S (330)
Friday May 31, 2013, 3:56 pm
Sleep well, Inge. Have a good day tomorrow.

Stan B (123)
Friday May 31, 2013, 4:05 pm
That's a great post, Beth. There are none so blind as those who will not see. Green star on its way to you.

Beth S (330)
Friday May 31, 2013, 4:09 pm
Thanks, Stan. CAIR2 deleted yet again.

Beth S (330)
Friday May 31, 2013, 4:19 pm
Muslim Rape Epidemic in European Countries - YouTube‎
Mar 31, 2013 - Uploaded by Arianrhod Jelena
1 in 4 Swedish Women Will Be Raped as Sexual Assaults Increase 500% ... European nations where the ...

Beth S (330)
Friday May 31, 2013, 4:20 pm

Muslim Immigrants are behind 77% of rapes in Sweden, 1 in every 4 ...‎
May 18, 2013 - Uploaded by SmartImmigration435 ...


Past Member (0)
Friday May 31, 2013, 4:20 pm
Yeehah, what a free-for-all! All I can say is that I've read any number of comments validated by documented, irrefutable, facts figures and statistics. And a few that are loud, vulger, and seemingly based purely on personal opinion.
Feel free to express yourself, but you really should be prepared to provide a basis for your argument.

Beth S (330)
Friday May 31, 2013, 4:21 pm

Muslim rape wave in Sweden - Majority Rights‎
I don't have too much respect for Swedish girls. I guess you can say they get f***ed to pieces.” The number of rapes committed by Muslim immigrants in Western ...

Beth S (330)
Friday May 31, 2013, 4:22 pm

Muslim rape wave in Sweden - Majority Rights‎
I don't have too much respect for Swedish girls. I guess you can say they get f***d to pieces.” The number of rapes committed by Muslim immigrants in Western ...

Beth S (330)
Friday May 31, 2013, 4:25 pm
Losing Malmo: Sweden Surrenders Their Third Largest City … to ... › Radical Islam‎
Aug 27, 2011 – They are unsafe for non-Muslims, particularly women who do not ... and acting under the color of Swedish law is taken as an affront to Islamic sovereignty. ... notes, “Fire and emergency workers . . . refuse to enter Malmo's mostly ... even basic public aid such as police, fire fighting and ambulance services.

Beth S (330)
Friday May 31, 2013, 4:39 pm
Okay, it looks like one of the Google entries had the F word, and it may have automatically prompted deletion.
Experimenting with taking that out.

I'd just like to say that I have had stuff deleted by C2C writers over and over again, because I challenged what they said in their columns. So censorship is far from unknown at Care2.

Beth S (330)
Friday May 31, 2013, 4:42 pm

Who are you addressing?

What a mess!

Past Member (0)
Friday May 31, 2013, 5:25 pm
Beth, you know exactly what I'm talking about. There are comments based on hard facts, and then there are comments based purely on someone's personal opinion with nothing presented to defend that argument.
I'm not going to debate the issue with her. Last time I tried that, for some reason (??) all my comments were deleted and I was censored. And I noticed that you were being deleted too. What exactly is up with that??

Carol Dreeszen (346)
Friday May 31, 2013, 10:18 pm
Nyack..How many times did you say you were done with people on this topic and the further I went the more replies you made! HYPOCRITE comes to mind! You are one ANGRY woman!!!

Rahman...Can't send you any more green stars today but you deserve a ton of them!!

Carol Dreeszen (346)
Friday May 31, 2013, 10:27 pm
I do think there is much all of us could learn from these questions! After all information IS power!

Inge B (202)
Saturday June 1, 2013, 12:28 am
Beth S.
Do not believe everything on You Tube or the internet, much of the information is racism and propaganda. The Swedish debate on television and radio are more true
Swedish women are very strong individuals and can take care of themselves.
Love to them all

Gene J (290)
Saturday June 1, 2013, 8:15 am
This is really the story that won't die. So let me intercede one more time. Immigrants in America (including both sides of my family from Sweden, 4 generations ago on one side, 2 on the other) have followed a traditional path. The first generation speaks the native language almost exclusively at home except for the bread winner, the second generation is the first to enter the educational system and begin real assimilation, they may or may not retain the native language and customs, the third generation is usually the first to complete high school, have lost the native language, more American than not, the fourth is the generation that finishes college and is fully assimilated. This has happened with every immigrant population in our history and continues to this day with primarily Asians, we have many first generation Muslims from many countries but largely Somalia, here in Minnesota (one of my pet peeves is my ancestors left the cold and moved right back into it, couldn't one of them have gone some place warm?), Hispanics and Asians are following the traditional path. The only population that has not is African-Americans, but they were never immigrants, and have problems of many kinds as a result of how they got here, not our most shining moment in history.

The Somali population is not, so far. There have been a number of conflicts between Somali high school students and others. The most recent of these was this past week when a Somali student became disruptive in a classroom physically and was restrained by a teacher. The local community wants him fired which according to what I have read so far seems a bit extreme. CAIR-MN has called a Department of Education investigation. The incident as I understand it was not over religion. It got me thinking though. I never hear of CAIR commenting on Islamic violence outside this country, but they are poring through police reports and papers looking for the slightest hint of what they consider to be anti-Islamic behavior. That they comment on. So I thought some more and wondered why we have CAIR. The Council on American Islamic Relations. Why don't we have a Council on American Lutheran Relations or American Catholic Relations or American Baptist Relations? What groundwork is being laid here? We have rules, laws against discrimination and any group can file suit under any of the multiple avenues open to them. Why do we only have CAIR? Where does that lead? What are we getting into by giving one religion status above all others in this way? For a secular society, it seems odd to me. And perhaps a bit dangerous. For the record, I support the path taken by Dr. King and Ghandi, peaceful protest - it works. And it doesn't cost millions to clean up afterwards...

Inge B (202)
Saturday June 1, 2013, 9:28 am
Gene Jacobson

Thanks for a thorough and nuanced description of the problem in the U.S., but I would still say that this was not a Muslim riots, all kinds of people took part in the riot against police violence that has increased throughout Europe. Today is Turkey affected by the riots and for the same reason, police violence, and what I understand is already Turkey Muslim.
Love, Peace and Understanding

Alexa R (319)
Saturday June 1, 2013, 12:54 pm
Inge Bjorkman (13)
Friday May 31, 2013, 12:35 pm
... it was just material things that were destroyed and no actual violence occurred ...

Inge, it may well be for you and many others in Sweden that the violence of burning cars and the potential risk to civilians are examples of acceptable behaviour, perhaps even admired behaviours.

However, from what you shared, it makes me even more grateful that in my country (Israel) these criminal and potentially dangerous actions are unacceptable behaviours and against the laws of Israel. I am so grateful that our police would protect us from such.

We've the best of both worlds here in Israel by the sounds of it: we've the freedom to protest peacefully all we like as well as being protected from violent riots (as it is against the law, unacceptable behaviour).


Inge B (202)
Saturday June 1, 2013, 2:55 pm
Alexandra R.

I wish you luck and success in your beautiful country, I hope you will have peace soon.

Alexa R (319)
Saturday June 1, 2013, 4:47 pm
Inge, peace is not an external thing, imo.

We've plenty of peace collective inner peace in Israel in spite of many who wish us harm. Antisemitism is at an almost high level globally.

Yet, we flourish, because we've a majority internal peace that enables us to prosper against all odds.

(We could easily have blamed, this and that and the other -- we sure have enough people desiring with all their hearts our destruction -- yet we've decided that life is too short and too beautiful not to make the most of it, and to bless every one and every thing we touch rather than to curse. And that's in a nutshell the secret of our continued success).

Lynn Geth (185)
Saturday June 1, 2013, 5:18 pm
@ Inge

"Youth is hot and must be allowed to react otherwise we get suicide bombers and people like those in Boston who kill people,...."

You seem to make light of what happened in Boston. The two bombers in Boston were not young and hot youths who weren't allowed to protest. They came to the USA and after living here for two years, decided they didn't like the USA. So instead of returning to their own Islamic country, they decided to build a bomb that blew up innocent people who were watching the Boston Marathon runners. The runners themselves were not targeted. NO, innocent parents and children were killed and maimed. A father was left to take care of his little daughter who had both of her legs blown off. His wife and young son were killed in the attack. This wasn't even a demonstration. It was two Muslim youths who wanted to kill as many Americans as they could. Their mother is a raving, ranting Muslim woman who is against the USA and all of its people.

In most cases, these terrorists....and yes, they are terrorists, want to take over every country and make sure the world is under Muslim rule.

Lynn Geth (185)
Saturday June 1, 2013, 5:31 pm
By the way, I'd like to thank Cal for posting this very interesting and provocative article. It certainly has illicited a lot of comments!

Inge B (202)
Saturday June 1, 2013, 11:15 pm
Lynn Geth

Hi Lynn
I think you've got it all wrong, I thought that these two terrorists became terrorists because that they did not react as teenagers in their home country, I mourn all the victims in Boston and rejects all such deeds. Thank you for responding, there may be more who have misunderstood what I meant, my English is not so good
Love, Peace and Understanding

Solitary Eagle (324)
Sunday June 2, 2013, 1:03 pm
Noted, thank you Cal.

Beth S (330)
Sunday June 2, 2013, 7:01 pm
Gene, Inge, etc.,

Please see this:

Police are looking for as many as six or seven Somali Muslim men after two joggers were attacked in Fridley. In broad daylight, and within full view of a busy stretch of East River Road, a group of seven young Somali Muslim men viciously punched two joggers for no apparent reason.

CBS The joggers, both men, were on a path near East River Road and 37th Avenue NE when the attacks took place.

Police said one man suffered a bloody nose in the attack and the other has a sore throat. Authorities said these attacks were not robbery attempts and that the suspects randomly approached them and assaulted them. “Without talking to them (the attackers), we have no idea what motivated them. (WE do! See video below) Authorities said the suspects are described as Somali Muslim men, but did not have any more information.

If you want to know what motivates Somali Muslims to ‘randomly’ attack people, watch this video made by Somali Muslims themselves in Minneapolis.

Inge B (202)
Sunday June 2, 2013, 11:38 pm
Beth S

Here is more to read, the world is cruel

Love, Peace and Understanding

Inge B (202)
Sunday June 2, 2013, 11:50 pm
Introduction from Lynn Geth

Thank you for those warm words, I'm sure the internet and Care2 in the future will take us closer together.
Love, Peace and Care2

Alexa R (319)
Monday June 3, 2013, 8:23 am
Inge, Breivik and any police officer committing crimes get their justice fair and square, Breivik will never be released from jail.

However, may Sweden also have the courage not to make an exception when the criminal is islamic, not to cower and appease .

May all criminals face the same justice and condemnation all over the world. May justice be fair and equal for all.


Inge B (202)
Monday June 3, 2013, 11:07 am
Alexandra R.

I totally agree with you, when our Prime Minister Olof Palme was killed became PKK accused of the murder.

Love Peace and Understanding

Inge B (202)
Monday June 3, 2013, 2:14 pm
About this Issue
Muslim rape wave in Sweden - Majority Rights‎
I don't have too much respect for Swedish girls. I guess you can say they get f***d to pieces.” The number of rapes committed by Muslim immigrants in Western

For years, the military has swept thousands of sexual assaults under the rug and resisted reform. Action is needed now. In 2012, the Department of Defense says there were 26,000 military sexual assaults. That's more than 71 per day.



Alexa R (319)
Tuesday June 4, 2013, 5:22 am
Inge, it is interesting that you're comparing what Beth shared about the rape committed in the name of Islam with the rape committed in the military.

Rape sure is an intimidation and control strategy and not a lust issue..

Inge B (202)
Tuesday June 4, 2013, 9:54 am
What I mean is that Islam and the military uses rape as a means of power and not only against the woman but also to her husband or to humiliate an entire nation.
Love and peace

Inge B (202)
Tuesday June 4, 2013, 11:40 am
One thing I noticed is that here in this petition is almost all people against the youngsters who demonstrate and celebrate the police. Now in Turkey, it is just the opposite, now celebrates the protesters and despise the police. Can you explain this phenomenon to me.

Lynn Geth (185)
Wednesday June 5, 2013, 10:30 pm
Inge, I don't understand why you posted the June 2nd comment starting with "Introduction from Lynn Geth" thanking me for "those warm words". Although I have nothing against you, all I did in the message to you was respectfully thank you for the green star you sent me for the comment I made thanking Cal.

Inge B (202)
Wednesday June 5, 2013, 11:49 pm
Lynn Geth
"I want to thank you for the green star that you gave me for a comment I made in the Stockholm article. It was very nice of you.

If different species of animals get along, I don't see why humans can't do the same."

These words I thought was so clever that I was quite warm inside, if people are aware that you are, then there is a chance that we be able to make peace on this earth and make the world more humane and pleasant to live in.

Love, Peace and Understanding
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