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Paris Riots: France Defends Veil Ban And Conduct Of Police During Violent Protests

Society & Culture  (tags: society, conflict, culture, world, politics, police, europe, culture, ethics, rights, religion, law, government, freedoms )

- 1764 days ago -
Interior Minister Manuel Valls defended on Monday France's ban on wearing full-face veils in public places after a police check on a veiled Muslim woman sparked riots in a Paris suburb at the weekend.

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Madhu Pillai (22)
Monday July 22, 2013, 4:21 pm
Ban the veil

pam w (139)
Monday July 22, 2013, 4:31 pm
Businesses have every right to know with whom they're dealing! Police have every right to SEE faces! Imagine how easy it would be to masquerade as a totally veiled woman, bringing guns into a bank?

If the French have passed this law....(it IS their country, after all,) I think they have a right to keep it!

Immigrants can either live as the French laws dictate or GO HOME!

Past Member (0)
Tuesday July 23, 2013, 4:11 am
No violence is acceptable

Jonathan Harper (0)
Tuesday July 23, 2013, 4:32 am

Gloria picchetti (304)
Tuesday July 23, 2013, 4:48 am
I like the ban against the veil.

inspector thirtyseven (1)
Tuesday July 23, 2013, 4:59 am
Gloria wrote - "I like the ban against the veil."
Most people who don't want women treated as second class citizens would. These people want to come to a civilized country ,to collect welfare - and have the country assimilate to Sharia law.

Annalisa Parrini (16)
Tuesday July 23, 2013, 6:52 am

Past Member (0)
Tuesday July 23, 2013, 7:20 am
Its up to the French its their country and their laws These people come to non muslim countries and then expect that country to change the laws for them Its not right Even here you can wear a veil in a shop but you cannot wear a crash helmet or a hoodie Does not make sense

Gene Jacobson (290)
Tuesday July 23, 2013, 8:38 am
Personally, I don't care if women, here or anywhere choose to be veiled. There are only some venues in which that cannot be allowed. If a women who wears a veil wishes a passport or a driver's license, she must remove the veil for the picture, law enforcement have an absolute right to know with whom they are dealing, that is a matter of public safety. International travelers fall into the same category to me, we must be able to tell if someone is on a no fly list or forbidden from entering our country. And, any place that requires use of a photo id as part of their normal business practices - banks cashing checks, for instance, has the right to ask the veil be removed so a face can be compared to a photo id in the interest of preventing fraud. Apart from instances like those though, hey, wear whatever you want, this IS America, look around, people are already wearing whatever they choose. Except under those conditions I mentioned. In the same vein, France has the right to pass and enforce laws within its country, whether I agree with them isn't relevant, if the French people don't, then repeal them. But this practice of burning and looting and rioting after every perceived slight is insane and should be tolerated no where. Identify and prosecute violators of your laws as is done everywhere in the world. Followers of Islam are not exempt from the laws of their adopted countries. If they feel discriminated against, take it to court as any other citizen would. But no riots, those are unlawful assembly virtually everywhere except perhaps the middle east where they seem to be the primary entertainment, but they accept that behavior there, so be it. That does not mean it must be accepted everywhere else. Nor should it.

. (0)
Tuesday July 23, 2013, 9:26 am
As usual Nyack, your rantings are over the top. Realistically, no, in a democracy you do not have "privacy" to your face. As Gene stated, if these women were allowed into France with a face covered passport, they should not have been allowed in. If this happened, shame on France.
The same goes for a driver's license if France has picture ids.
Rioting in the country you chose to live in, only makes your position that much more weak; the only sympathy they gained is from irrational people like you.

Theodore Shayne (56)
Tuesday July 23, 2013, 10:40 am
I agree with Gene. Pam your point about masquerade is relevant as several medium to high level fighters in Iraq were caught dressed as women. It's an old ploy.

jan b (5)
Tuesday July 23, 2013, 11:30 am
The muslim veil is worn to show HUMILITY. The word humility signifies lowliness or submissiveness. Does it ever occur to the women who wear a veil that the men in their culture aren't required to "show humility" only they do ? Don't they want to be treated as equals in a free country ?

S J (130)
Tuesday July 23, 2013, 4:14 pm
Noted, thanks Cal.

pam w (139)
Tuesday July 23, 2013, 4:51 pm
In fact, "DICTATE" means exactly what it states the law clearly and reasonably.

Anyone who believes that the right to put on a body bag and masquerade as a woman while planning a bank robbery is included in ''rights of privacy'' has either had too much to drink or is deliberately obtuse.


Susan N (34)
Tuesday July 23, 2013, 7:18 pm
Countries have the right to dictate their laws, whether we agree them or not; after all, some Muslim counries dictate that foreigners must cover themselves up, whether they want to or not. Apparently they are not afraid that the person underneath the veil may not be a WOMAN. Law enforcement needs to be able to see who they are dealing with, and that is why hoodies are banned in the UK in banks and shops. You can still wear them, just not into a place of business. Plus, I would not want someone I did not know, or could not even see who they were, wandering around in MY house. When in someone else's house, you live by their rules, as that is only polite, no matter what your personal religious, political, etc preferences are, and that is what countries like France are enforcing, as that is THEIR house. If you don't like it, you are certainly free to leave, unlike in some Muslim countries, where women are forced to stay and wear the veil, whether they like it or not.

Catherine O Neill (73)
Tuesday July 23, 2013, 9:35 pm
If you have nothing to hide why hide your face!!! If you for religious reasons do this then stay where you were born

Sheila D (194)
Tuesday July 23, 2013, 10:03 pm
Personally I have mixed emotions. I understand the right to wear what you want, especially if it is a religious or national custom. I also agree that to cover the face could be asking for trouble - businesses have the right to see who their cutomers are. Why hide your face unless you're up to no good? has a good reasoning behind it. However, I do think a verbal warning for the first offense is in order - the wearers of the veil, and their menfolk, are in a different country and should respect that country's laws. As long as I don't have to wear one I won't worry about it, for now.

LucyKaleido ScopeEyes (82)
Wednesday July 24, 2013, 2:51 am
This law against wearing the total veil, the burqa or the chadri (with only holes or a slit for eyes, or else mesh fabric to see through), was passed relatively recently by the government before the Socialist party Hollande government. It was the right-wing Sarkozy govt that initiated this. It was a divisive measure that received a lot of publicity, applauded only by the right in France. Other people wondered why the govt was bothering to legislate about these women --since they make up such a tiny proportion of the Muslim population living in France: it has been estimated that at most only about 2,000 women fall into this category-- when there were so many much more urgent things for the govt to attend to. But this, at least, didn't cost anything, & would satisfy the most right wing of Sarkozy's electorate! Well, he lost the election anyway!

What some people on this thread don't seem to realize is that some of the women wearing the burqa or chadri and the youth rioting in the suburb of Trappes are French. They may have been born to immigrant parents or have immigrant grandparents, but they & in many cases, their parents, too, are French. And they have been living in France for far longer than this law has existed.

I don't like Islamic fundamentalism & I don't like Islamic fundamentalism in politics, but the youth rioting do not necessarily belong to that category. But they do feel humiliated & marginalized in French society, living in suburban ghettoes with high concentrations of poor & immigrant populations, & subject to higher rates of unemployment than elsewhere in unemployment-poor France.

So, It's not that they have come to France to 'collect welfare' as someone said. (Typical right-wing stereotype, that immigrants come into a country to take advantage of social welfare.) But these young people were BORN in France! They're French! And they aren't happy about being relegated to the lowest grade work, which their immigrant parents may have done willingly, but doesn't satisfy them.

The job market is very tight in France: there is little available work; the economy is not booming, far from it -- we've been in recession! You HAVE heard about the economic crisis that began in 2008? All of France knows that job opportunities are next to non-existent even for non-North-African-descent young people with degrees of all sorts. Distressing rates of unemployment exist for young people & middle-aged people as a whole, they are just much worse in the suburban ghettoes.

Because they already feel humiliated, any police action is viewed as 'against them'. They feel the oppression of a police presence; they resent being policed by a society that has cast them off as disposable people, without a future.

The job of the govt is to uphold the law, as the Interior Minister said. But it is also the job of the government to make sure that equal opportunities exist and that the economy gets back to growing & creating jobs. It is not acceptable that a portion of society is marginalized, & that young people remain idle for lack of training and proper integration into mainstream society.
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