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The Big Issue in Egypt That No One's Talking About

World  (tags: world, politics, Egypt, violence against women, society, news, violence, 'HUMANRIGHTS!', freedoms, 'CIVILLIBERTIES!', violence, politics )

- 1739 days ago -
It's at the root of all the country's problems, and it just got a whole lot worse.

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. (0)
Sunday August 18, 2013, 11:08 am
Sympathy towards Egypt is slowly turning into disgust by the West, even the Arab world. Until Egypt commits itself to the elimination of the Brotherhood, they will never be the country they once were.
Although Sadat was murdered, again, by idiots in his army, Egypt had decades of peace under Mubarak; yet this was not good enought for a population that is clueless of what they want.
You were not happy under Mubarak, go to Syria, Assad would have loved to have you; as would Lebanon.

Peggy A (0)
Sunday August 18, 2013, 11:08 am

Sheila D (194)
Sunday August 18, 2013, 3:19 pm
We need to stop aiding Pro-Morst. Noted with thanks.

. (0)
Sunday August 18, 2013, 3:32 pm

Winn A (179)
Sunday August 18, 2013, 4:38 pm
Sad for all concerned.

Past Member (0)
Sunday August 18, 2013, 5:21 pm

Billie C (2)
Sunday August 18, 2013, 7:34 pm
we need to stay out of it. in fact we need to stay out of the whole region. let them handle it.

pam w (139)
Sunday August 18, 2013, 7:47 pm
Is it at ALL possible that the fundamental Islamic movement is losing public approval? Or is the Muslim Brotherhood continuing its goal of domination?

Sara V (0)
Sunday August 18, 2013, 9:55 pm
The headline purports to speak of "the big issue" and it sounds (from the article) as though that issue is foreign aid, revenue, and Egypt's markets and debt insurance. The Muslim Brotherhood is mentioned a few times - it is my understanding that it is an organization which started out akin to the Boy Scouts of America, and became a useful gathering point for many Egyptians as it was stable when governments, etc. weren't. I don't know that it has a goal of "domination" as someone above seems to think. It would be convenient for ignorant people to demonize the organization based solely upon its name whilst knowing perhaps nothing else about it.

The U.S. should indeed not be sending any "aid." Those are likely our munitions they are using on the people.

Heather Marv (31)
Sunday August 18, 2013, 11:17 pm
Oh for a World where Mankind lives in peace with one another and has respect and care for all species.

Stan B (123)
Monday August 19, 2013, 2:17 am
From Associated Press in Cairo.

After torching a Franciscan school, Islamists paraded three nuns on
the streets like “prisoners of war” before a Muslim woman offered them

Two other women working at the school were sexually harassed and
abused as they fought their way through a mob.

In the four days since security forces cleared two sit-in camps by
supporters of Egypt’s ousted president, Islamists have attacked dozens
of Coptic churches along with homes and businesses owned by the
Christian minority.

The campaign of intimidation appears to be a warning to Christians
outside Cairo to stand down from political activism.

Christians have long suffered from discrimination and violence in
Muslim majority Egypt, where they make up 10 percent of the 90 million

Attacks increased after the Islamists rose to power in the wake of the
2011 Arab Spring uprising that drove Hosni Mubarak from power,
emboldening extremists.

But Christians have come further under fire since President Mohammed
Mursi was ousted on July 3, sparking a wave of Islamist anger led by
Mursi’s Muslim Brotherhood.

Nearly 40 churches have been looted and torched, while 23 others have
been attacked and heavily damaged since Wednesday, when chaos erupted
after Egypt’s military-backed interim administration moved in to clear
two camps packed with protesters calling for Mursi’s reinstatement,
killing scores of protesters and sparking deadly clashes nationwide.

One of the world’s oldest Christian communities has generally kept a
low-profile, but has become more politically active since Mubarak was
ousted and Christians sought to ensure fair treatment in the

Many Morsi supporters say Christians played a disproportionately large
role in the days of mass rallies, with millions demanding that he step
down ahead of the coup.

Despite the violence, Egypt’s Coptic Christian church renewed its
commitment to the new political order on Friday, saying in a statement
that it stood by the army and the police in their fight against “the
armed violent groups and black terrorism.”

While the Christians of Egypt have endured attacks by extremists, they
have drawn closer to moderate Muslims in some places, in a rare show
of solidarity.

Hundreds from both communities thronged two monasteries in the
province of Bani Suef south of Cairo to thwart what they had expected
to be imminent attacks on Saturday, local activist Girgis Waheeb said.

Activists reported similar incidents elsewhere in regions south of
Cairo, but not enough to provide effective protection of churches and

Waheeb, other activists and victims of the latest wave of attacks
blame the police as much as hard-line Islamists for what happened.

The attacks, they said, coincided with assaults on police stations in
provinces like Bani Suef and Minya, leaving most police pinned down to
defend their stations or reinforcing others rather than rushing to the
rescue of Christians under attack.

Another Christian activist, Ezzat Ibrahim of Minya, a province also
south of Cairo where Christians make up around 35 percent of the
population, said police have melted away from seven of the region’s
nine districts, leaving the extremists to act with near impunity.

Two Christians have been killed since Wednesday, including a taxi
driver who strayed into a protest by Morsi supporters in Alexandria
and another man who was shot to death by Islamists in the southern
province of Sohag, according to security officials, who spoke on
condition of anonymity because they weren’t authorized to release the

The attacks served as a reminder that while on the defensive in Cairo,
Islamists maintain influence and the ability to stage violence in
provincial strongholds with a large minority of Christians.

Gamaa Islamiya, the hard-line Islamist group that wields considerable
influence in provinces south of Cairo, denied any link to the attacks.

The Muslim Brotherhood, which has led the defiant protest against
Mursi’s ouster, has condemned the attacks, spokesman Mourad Ali said.

Sister Manal is the principal of the Franciscan school in Bani Suef.
She was having breakfast with two visiting nuns when news broke of the
clearance of the two sit-in camps by police, killing hundreds.

In an ordeal that lasted about six hours, she, sisters Abeer and
Demiana and a handful of school employees saw a mob break into the
school through the wall and windows, loot its contents, knock off the
cross on the street gate and replace it with a black banner resembling
the flag of al-Qaida.

By the time the Islamists ordered them out, fire was raging at every
corner of the 115-year-old main building and two recent additions.

Money saved for a new school was gone, said Manal, and every computer,
projector, desk and chair was hauled away. Frantic SOS calls to the
police, including senior officers with children at the school,
produced promises of quick response but no one came.

The Islamists gave her just enough time to grab some clothes.

In an hourlong telephone interview with The Associated Press, Manal,
47, recounted her ordeal while trapped at the school with others as
the fire raged in the ground floor and a battle between police and
Islamists went on out on the street.

At times she was overwhelmed by the toxic fumes from the fire in the
library or the whiffs of tears gas used by the police outside.

Sister Manal recalled being told a week earlier by the policeman
father of one pupil that her school was targeted by hard-line
Islamists convinced that it was giving an inappropriate education to
Muslim children.

She paid no attention, comfortable in the belief that a school that
had an equal number of Muslim and Christian pupils could not be
targeted by Muslim extremists. She was wrong.

The school has a high-profile location. It is across the road from the
main railway station and adjacent to a busy bus terminal that in
recent weeks attracted a large number of Islamists headed to Cairo to
join the larger of two sit-in camps by Morsi’s supporters.

The area of the school is also in one of Bani Suef’s main bastions of
Islamists from Morsi’s Muslim Brotherhood and ultraconservative

“We are nuns. We rely on God and the angels to protect us,” she said.
“At the end, they paraded us like prisoners of war and hurled abuse at
us as they led us from one alley to another without telling us where
they were taking us,” she said.

A Muslim woman who once taught at the school spotted Manal and the two
other nuns as they walked past her home, attracting a crowd of curious

“I remembered her, her name is Saadiyah. She offered to take us in and
said she can protect us since her son-in-law was a policeman. We
accepted her offer,” she said.

Two Christian women employed by the school, siblings Wardah and
Bedour, had to fight their way out of the mob, while groped, hit and
insulted by the extremists. “I looked at that and it was very nasty,”
said Manal.

The incident at the Franciscan school was repeated at Minya where a
Catholic school was razed to the ground by an arson attack and a
Christian orphanage was also torched.

“I am terrified and unable to focus,” said Boulos Fahmy, the pastor of
a Catholic church a short distance away from Manal’s school. “I am
expecting an attack on my church any time now,” he said on Saturday.

Bishoy Alfons Naguib, a 33-year-old businessman from Minya, has a
similarly harrowing story.

His home supplies store on a main commercial street in the provincial
capital, also called Minya, was torched this week and the flames
consumed everything inside.

“A neighbor called me and said the store was on fire. When I arrived,
three extremists with knifes approached me menacingly when they
realized I was the owner,” recounted Naguib.

His father and brother pleaded with the men to spare him. Luckily, he
said, someone shouted that a Christian boy was filming the proceedings
using his cell phone, so the crowd rushed toward the boy shouting
“Nusrani, Nusrani,” the Quranic word for Christians which has become a
derogatory way of referring to them in today’s Egypt.

Naguib ran up a nearby building where he has an apartment and locked
himself in. After waiting there for a while, he left the apartment,
ran up to the roof and jumped to the one next door building from which
he exited at a safe distance from the crowd.

“On our Mustafa Fahmy Street, the Islamists had earlier painted a red
X on Muslim stores and a black X on Christian stores,” he said. “You
can be sure that the ones with a red X are intact.”

In Fayoum, an oasis province southwest of Cairo, Islamists looted and
torched five churches, according to Bishop Ibram, the local head of
the Coptic Orthodox church, by far the largest of Egypt’s Christian

He said he had instructed Christians and clerics alike not to try to
resist the mobs of Islamists, fearing any loss of life.

“The looters were so diligent that they came back to one of the five
churches they had ransacked to see if they can get more,” he told the
AP. “They were loading our chairs and benches on trucks and when they
had no space for more, they destroyed them.”

God help Egyptian Christians because nobody else will.


Yvonne Taylor (37)
Monday August 19, 2013, 4:41 am
Umm, who are you going to believe?
While confirming the killings of the detainees on Sunday, the Ministry of the Interior said the deaths were the consequence of an escape attempt by Islamist
prisoners. But officials of the main Islamist movement, the Muslim Brotherhood, described the deaths as “assassinations,” and said that the victims, which it said
numbered 52, had been shot and tear-gassed through the windows of a locked prison van.

This makes NO SENSE AT ALL TO ME UNLESS THEY HAVE BIG BUSINESS REASONS LIKE USA AND EU, AS I have finally figured out why our government and EU and the media
therein, are siding with Marosis terrorist supporters..... "Major multinational companies, banks and the stock exchange shut down this week.
But the Egyptian military retains the support of the oil-rich states of the Persian Gulf, especially Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates, which have pledged
billions in aid to the new government. (FROM VERY VERY SLANTED ARTICLE FROM GLOBALPOST)

. (0)
Monday August 19, 2013, 6:33 am
Very sad situation over there.

Past Member (0)
Monday August 19, 2013, 7:16 am
It's an unbelievably complicated and huge problem, which Egypt has. It's sad to say but the bottomless pit of poverty and corruption makes all side's attempts at improving the situation of the everyday man and woman almost impossible. The best we can do for Egypt is not to lose hope for stability, reason and compassion.

Theodore Shayne (56)
Monday August 19, 2013, 8:05 am
Dear Sara V. The Muslim Brotherhood has been around since the 1920s and is the grandfather of all terrorist organizations in the Middle East. Yes they do good work when it suits their purpose but their intention is the establishment of Sharia dominated society throughout the Muslim world. Of course that could extend globally in time. Hope that clarifies your question.

Past Member (0)
Monday August 19, 2013, 8:13 am
Thanks Cal...

Sara V (0)
Monday August 19, 2013, 9:03 am
Thank you for your response, Theodore. I have heard conflicting reports of their activities over the years.

Isn't the U.S. government/CIA etc. the grandfather of all terrorist organizations in the world? They fomented unrest and violence in Central America, ousted democratically elected professor Mosaddegh from Iran (and replaced him with our puppet Shah so that we could access Iran's oil) which led to the descent to extremism there as well. Now they are posturing against Iran as if they have a leg to stand on - AMF (an American company) sold Iran its first nuclear reactors in the early 1960s.)

Yet ironically, so many Americans think this same group of people should be asked for "help" in all kinds of situations. They continue to serve the interests of the globally powerful.

bob m (32)
Monday August 19, 2013, 11:38 am

@ Pam.. I think the majority if Egyptians just realized it was time to make a stand .. as they would soon be waking up in a bag.. living or dead.

Hartson Doak (39)
Monday August 19, 2013, 1:15 pm
Allan, the Egyptian people want the same thing the people in the US want, self determination. We the people are loosing it here. They never had it. The people now realize that they can demand it. Soon, we, the people, will demand that it is given back.

Roger G (154)
Monday August 19, 2013, 2:40 pm
noted, thanks

Sara V (0)
Monday August 19, 2013, 3:07 pm
Destroying anyone is violent and not the answer. If people are free enough, they will not want anything to do with electing crazy people. The Nazis gained power because the German people felt powerless and downtrodden since they were paying steep reparations for WWI. When people get fed up enough, all they want is change, no matter what - and the strong personalities are the ones they turn to - fundamentalist, nationalist, etc.

The key is to defend the rule of law above all. It's loss is what's gotten us into our mess - companies and government doing what is illegal with no consequences to pay.

bob m (32)
Monday August 19, 2013, 3:08 pm

How long before what is being looked at with useful idiot compromise in this America that so many despise; as you suggest Sara V....will the average sleeper American whose children will be the target of terrors sleepers wait ...before he and she and her militias and Generals and Colonels....down to average guys who are ducks in a line to the insanity of islam.. ....How long will they stand dhimmified... shot in the back by those who they aid and train and invite into their homeland; only to hear PROMISES of terror taught HERE... to establish see their daughters called whores and Europe!
How long before the people rise up and put the denizenjs of jihadi camps right here in America ..OUT of America and say too ... NO to islamic mass immigration and sedition and treason will be prosecuted with speedy thoroughness ..... how long before the understanding of infamy is clear enough in this land of consumers; that these deceits will no longer take root; to the fearful consequence which clearly it is becoming for we and our children... yes we and our children ... NOT THEY and their CONSTITUTION of EVIL>...WRITTEN... resistance is futile? God save America.. from this treacherous book of lies. God show us the way of the warrior which pleases you.. In the NAME of THE LAMB.

Birgit W (160)
Monday August 19, 2013, 3:56 pm
Thank you.

Lindsey O (19)
Monday August 19, 2013, 4:42 pm
I don't know whether the destruction of the Brotherhood would do the trick in and of itself, but it certainly is a good start. The real question to ask is if Western-style democracy is something that can flourish in many parts of the world or if it takes a great deal more in the way of cultural groundwork by the people in those cultures before their society as a whole is able to accommodate democracy (which requires far more in the way of pluralism, tolerance of non-majority beliefs, acceptance of freedom of religion and rejection of theocracy, and belief in individual rights and responsibilities than some other systems of government). After all, democracy has only been around in a significant way in the West itself for a relatively short period of time - it took us awhile to get here (and if we're not careful it will take us a lot less time to lose what we've gained).

Phil P (94)
Monday August 19, 2013, 5:36 pm
I'm sick of the mid-East and their problems, blaming everyone and gross stupidity inflicting untold misery on themselves and everyone else. We may need a biblical sand storm to wipe things clean and start all over.

Sara V (0)
Tuesday August 20, 2013, 8:56 am
"The real question to ask is if Western-style democracy is something that can flourish in many parts of the world or if it takes a great deal more in the way of cultural groundwork by the people in those cultures before their society as a whole is able to accommodate democracy"

Lindsey O., this is not the real question, as the U.S. is NOT a democracy - it is a republic, with democratic elections. (...and to the republic for which it stands.) True democracy just pits one group against another in a tug of war over who gets to force the others (whomever happens to be in the minority) to do things their way. What you describe: "pluralism, tolerance of non-majority beliefs, acceptance of freedom of religion and rejection of theocracy, and belief in individual rights and responsibilities" are all embraced in a republic.

The great irony here is that those who wield our military illegally all over the middle east (oil anyone?) and destabilize these countries then hold the standard of democracy aloft as the great beacon of hope for these areas. Not so. Democracy soon degenerates into Socialism, Communism, or Fascism, as there is no protection for the minority.

Sara V (0)
Tuesday August 20, 2013, 9:07 am
Wow, Bob M. You seem to seriously be buying the lines they are selling you.

To quote Hartson above - "the Egyptian people want the same thing the people in the US want."


The people in power who profit from all this destruction, stealing, and "rebuilding" are fervently hoping that we all will stay distracted from what they are perpetrating. ("Look - over there!" just like in those bad comedy films.) That we will remain scared, divided, and fighting amongst ourselves while they take us to the cleaners. We cannot afford to get caught up in that - we must point our fingers at the real villains - those who concentrate power and profit. Have you read Confessions of an Economic Hitman, or The Grand Chessboard?

bob m (32)
Wednesday August 21, 2013, 8:09 am

islam is antichrist Sarah V.:As to big business and all the other RED herrings trumpeted about .. one thing at a time.... in the mean time the "sandman" slithers through our midst ; preaching oil and foulness together.. cannot be done. The truth Of God in Christ JESUS WILL CRUSH THE SCARAB WHICH POUR FORTH OUT OF THE MAW OF DARKNESS ,,,SOON. MY PRAYER IS THAT I REMAIN PURE TO THE SIMPLE GOSPEL .. UNDIVIDED..WHICH IS IN THE L.AMB. Yet He abideth faithful; for He cannot deny Himself.

Lindsey O (19)
Wednesday August 21, 2013, 11:02 am
Yes, Sara V, I'm aware the U.S. is a republic. However I wasn't speaking of the U.S. - but was instead speaking of "Western-style democracy".
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