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Hamas Tunnel Threat at Center of War With Israel


World  (tags: world, middle-east, israel, war, Hamas, tunnels, means of war, victims, news, violence, politics )

Cal
- 150 days ago - news.yahoo.com
A network of tunnels Palestinian militants have dug from Gaza to Israel -- dubbed "lower Gaza" by the Israeli military -- is taking center stage in the latest war between Hamas and Israel.



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Comments

Miriam E. (18)
Friday July 25, 2014, 3:34 am
Thanks, Cal.
So much money, manpower and building materials were spent on these tunnels, instead of spending it on building the country the Palestinians deserve. Improving the palestinians' lives.
Instead, all effort was directed towards terror and destruction. Of Israel and Gaza.


rom the article:
- "There are thousands of resistance fighters working underground and thousands others working above the ground, to prepare for the upcoming battle," Ismail Haniyeh, a top Hamas leader in Gaza, said earlier this year. "No one can imagine what the resistance is ready to do to confront the occupiers."


- Palestinian militants trying to sneak into Israel through the tunnels have been found with tranquilizers and handcuffs, an indication that they "intended to abduct Israelis," according to the military.

-"Hamas has dug terrorist tunnels under hospitals, mosques, schools, homes, to penetrate our territory, to kidnap and kill Israelis. Now, in the face of such wanton terrorism, no country could sit idly by," Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu told visiting U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon this week.

 

Past Member (0)
Friday July 25, 2014, 4:44 am
Thanks Cal.
 

Sandra Penna (109)
Friday July 25, 2014, 4:54 am
boycott Israel!!!
 

Past Member (0)
Friday July 25, 2014, 5:22 am
Thanks, they knew about the tunnels but not how many there is, Even now, while Israel estimates there are 45, American satellite technology has been able to detect at least 60 tunnels.
 

Giana Peranio-Paz (394)
Friday July 25, 2014, 7:02 am
That is why this conflict is still going on, we have to destroy most of them because they are a real threat to our citizens.
 

Sandra Penna (109)
Friday July 25, 2014, 8:52 am
http://www.newstatesman.com/world-affairs/2014/07/israel-s-assault-gaza-intensifies-it-not-anti-semitic-say-not-my-name
 

Sandra Penna (109)
Friday July 25, 2014, 9:00 am
http://yvonneridley.org/analysis-and-opinion/5-videos-the-israeli-military-wish-youd-stop-sharing-on-facebook-and-twitter/
 

Sandra Penna (109)
Friday July 25, 2014, 9:07 am
http://www.thelancet.com/gaza-letter-2014
 

jan b. (3)
Friday July 25, 2014, 9:49 am
Hamas doesn't care about Palestinians...their CHARTER is all about destruction of Israel. I watched a film clip on the news last night that showed HAMAS firing from the windows of a hospital. Small arms fire, and some RPG rounds. The Palestinians had been told to evacuate the hospital by the Israeli military, ,,,,,then the military blew the building up, killing those HAMAS scum who were still inside, firing at the Israeli soldiers.
 

Theresa Robinson (61)
Friday July 25, 2014, 12:48 pm
NOTED SIGNED AND SHARED! THANKS CAL! THERESA R.
 

Barbara D. (79)
Friday July 25, 2014, 12:53 pm
Sandra Penna, I'd love to respond, but I'm confused as to how your posts relate to tunnels.

I can however, respond to a question in one of your videos:
*“What are Gazans supposed to do? Evacuate to where? SWIM FOR IT? Have you ****ing seen Gaza?”*

I know this one!!! THE TUNNELS!!!
אנחנו ישראל. אנחנו חזקים. אנחנו לא נלך משם.
 

Colleen L. (2)
Friday July 25, 2014, 2:15 pm
Thanks Cal
 

Birgit W. (152)
Friday July 25, 2014, 2:42 pm
PEACE!
 

jess b (24)
Friday July 25, 2014, 3:32 pm
Pretty desperate to attempt to blur the truth. it is well known, why Netanyahu and his apologists are doing this - it's a continuation of racist-Zionist apartheid policies that have no regard for anyone, who does not belong to the 'chosen', self serving, elitist groups that condone stealing people's lands and natural resources, and contriving to make it appear that Israel is defenseless and living in terror every day. The truth, in fact, is that the Israeli regime has been terrorizing and marginalizing Palestinians for decades, obstructing peace so it can continue with it's land annexations and forced evictions - as it is doing now in Gaza!

Israel has invaded Gaza, as it planned to do a long time ago. The 'tunnels' have nothing to do with it. It's a red herring, just like the so called
children as shilds'. Israel wants control of the borders, it's that simple and to reconnoiter the area and beyond, one of it's primary goals being to take over gas fields, like it took over water resources.

It's an energy war, and land theft is what is has always been, and the ongoing objective of the illegal occupation and expulsion of Palestinians from their homes and farms, especially from fertile areas.

If you would you like your neighbor coming in and shelling you, telling you to get out or you'll die, be my guest. Yes, indeed, so innocent, so 'vulnerable', with the 4th largest military in the world, paid for, by US workers - and some of the apologists here, have never paid a dime. No skin off their nose, as they say.

Red herrings and crying wolf, the old mainstay of deception and deceit. No shill, here, and I don't carry water, for self inflated users.

US Jews occupy Israeli army support office in NY in civil disobedience action - mondoweiss

Thanks for the links Sandra.
http://www.newstatesman.com/world-affairs/2014/07/israel-s-assault-gaza-intensifies-it-not-anti-semitic-say-not-my-name

http://yvonneridley.org/analysis-and-opinion/5-videos-the-israeli-military-wish-youd-stop-sharing-on-facebook-and-twitter/

http://www.thelancet.com/gaza-letter-2014
 

Barbara D. (79)
Friday July 25, 2014, 6:34 pm
jess, it's a wonderful, wonderful thing that you're so well able to explain all of this to us ~ especially considering the source you use (or do you use more than one??)

I don't see, though, how it a red herring when obvious questions arise. I realize that the tunnels have served well for smuggling armaments, terrorists and endangered species (they never managed the coveted elephant though!), but why not use the monies to improve the lives of the people and work towards statehood? In actuality, why wasn't there already an independent state as offered repeatedly??

Back to my comment to Sandra. Why haven't the civilians been in the easily available, accomodating tunnels??
Explain to me how on earth Israel could be responsible for that too.
I shouldn't be laughing ~ there's no doubt in my mind that she will, indeed, come back with a convoluted and vitriolic answer!

Hint: It's not A) Because Hamas has commanded civilians not to leave their homes or B) Because retaliatory fire can't penetrate the tunnels.

Just answered one of my own questions!! If they hadn't been using money for the tunnels and stockpiling arms there wouldn't have been any money. Because the objective has never been to aid the Palestians but to incessantly attack Israel!!!!
אם אתה לא יכול להיות טרח להדליק את המנורה, החדר נשאר חשוך.
 

Sam H. (403)
Friday July 25, 2014, 8:02 pm
Silly me, I thought I it was to avenge the death of the three young Israeli settlers! Whatever happened to their killer, BTW?
 

Patsy Olive (0)
Friday July 25, 2014, 8:18 pm
Noted.
 

Stephen Brian (23)
Friday July 25, 2014, 8:50 pm
Honestly, I see the infiltration from the tunnels as scary, but secondary compared to the weapons-smuggling, especially now that ISIS controls territory and possesses a whole lot of former Iraqi military hardware.

Hi Sandra,

If you want to boycott Israel, go right ahead. I should probably mention where those heat-resistant transistors in your computer (and every other modern computer on Earth) were developed, who holds the patent, and where the royalties go. Have fun in the 1930s!

Hi Sam,

No, this set of strikes was not about the death of three young kids. That was a media-fabrication. It was about the Hamas-Fatah reconciliation leading straight to a Third Intifada, and the threat of ISIS smuggling weapons to its natural ally, Hamas.
 

Sandra D. (10)
Friday July 25, 2014, 9:00 pm
It is hard to imagine living in a country where you are surrounded by so many enemies. I find it difficult to fault the Israelis for their desire to make their country secure but I cannot condone the death of so many innocent women and children. There is no where for them to be safe. Who should be held accountable? - Hamas for hiding behind civilians? or the Israelis for firing on the targets regardless of the collateral damage? All I know is that this has gone long enough and it would appear that Hamas cares very little for their own people otherwise they would stop firing rockets over the border. Of course it is obvious that Israel cares little for the enemy but I wonder if they had considered the irony of their position as the tyrants. It takes at least 2 to have a fight!
 

Debra G. (0)
Friday July 25, 2014, 9:28 pm
Thank you, Cal, for sharing this article. It's nice to see the other side of the bleak story.
 

Lynn Squance (232)
Friday July 25, 2014, 11:45 pm
Thanks Sandra D for reminding me of what my mother always said to my brother and me --- It takes 2 to tangle!

It seems that these two groups, Israel and Hamas, have the same goal in mind --- the annihilation of the other. Hamas uses its own people as shields, uses hospitals, schools and mosques to fire at Israeli forces putting their people in further danger. They have appropriated building materials and funds that were to be used to rebuild the Gaza communities, to build the underground tunnels and bunkers. Israel on the other hand bombs these same hospitals, schools and mosques trying to kill Hamas but they also succeed in killing innocent civilians for which they are vilified. Over the years, Israel has expropriated Palestinian land and expanded its settlements. And now the spectre of natural gas or oil in Gaza looms large.

Neither side is right. Both are wrong. And it is the civilian population, both Palestinian and Israeli, that pay the price. Add into this toxic brew ISIS which is sweeping through the Middle East with their own radical Islamic agenda. I read today that ISIS has called for FGM for all women and girls in Iraq.

I decry the lack of a ceasefire from Israel, but I also try to understand their view that they don't want to give Hamas a chance to beef up the tunnels etc.during a ceasefire.

John Kerry at his press conference with UN Secretary General Ban Ki-Moon in Cairo, stated "violence begets violence". And he is right. Somewhere there is a solution but people have to be willing to listen to each other.

One of my all time favourite photographs is of two boys, one Israeli and one Palestinian, walking and talking to each other with their arms around each other's shoulders. That is what peace should look like!
 

Barbara D. (79)
Saturday July 26, 2014, 12:49 am
Hamas initiated aggression ~ in actuality they have been bombing Israel for years and years. Israel did not retaliate until the bombings were so fast and frequent she was forced to protect her citizens. Or did Israel, unlike any other country on earth, have no right to protect her civilians from hostile rocketfire??
I am grieving and furious at what's been done to the Gazans, but if you need a whipping boy, Hamas is firing from civilian neighborhoods, schools, hospitals, ordering people to ignore warnings and not move from their neighborhoods...... ...
Besides, look at a zoom-in of Gaza. There are miles and miles of beaches, open desert on the Israeli borders, and exrtensive areas of open spaces between residential areas. A rocket launcher, even two would easily sit on your desk, and there are handheld models that would fit ~ in your hand.
There is absolutely no necessity whatsoever for Hamas to be anywhere near any civilian areas.
It seems they have a great problem with that word. They fire rockets exclusively into towns and residential areas in Israel, and knowing full well they couldn't win the war they provoked they made sure Israel was forced to fire at their imbedded locations assuring that Israel would be villainized as a bloodthirsty monster.
Brilliant plan!! You all fell for it hook, line and sinker.

Lyn, the sooner Hamas is annihilated the better. All the Arabs need to stay home and do Arab stuff. Israelites and Palestinians have equal rights to Israel ~ we're brothers and sisters, both descended lineally from the Jews of Canaan/Judea/Palestinae. We're Semitic and a surprisingly large number of Palestinians secretly practice Judaism.
Now, if someone tries to tell me that Israel is responsible for violating their right to practice Judaism...... Don't laugh! I guarantee someone will.
What would life be like if we could have the major portion of Palestinae back from ARAB Jordan so we could spread out in our land without Arab invader/terrorists trying to blow us off the map
 

Maria Teresa Schollhorn (44)
Saturday July 26, 2014, 1:01 am
Noted. Thanks.
 

Alfred Donovan (46)
Saturday July 26, 2014, 1:07 am
There is nothing like an article such as this to bring out the anti Semitics.
 

Arild Warud (170)
Saturday July 26, 2014, 2:11 am
What options do they have,Israel have a fully equipped warmachine whit tanks,airplanes,drones and ships.Stop the ilegal settlements and leave the Palestinians alone.
 

Sandra Penna (109)
Saturday July 26, 2014, 3:09 am
Luckily I'm not carrying dead children in my arms. No dead on my shoulders. I hope you and your family can sleep in peace, Barbara D.
 

Sandra Penna (109)
Saturday July 26, 2014, 3:18 am
Please read: http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2014/07/hamas-didnt-kidnap-the-israeli-teens-after-all.html.
 

Arild Warud (170)
Saturday July 26, 2014, 3:44 am
I wonder what Barbara D means when she states:"All the Arabs need to stay home and do Arab stuff".
WTH is Arab stuff??? This is absolutely the silliest statement I've seen in a long time,if you want to discuss at least stay on the track and back up your facts,not those from Faux News.
 

Parsifal O. (102)
Saturday July 26, 2014, 4:27 am

Israel Uses Palestinian Children as Human Shields, Not Hamas
 

Marija Mohoric (47)
Saturday July 26, 2014, 6:09 am
thank you Cal
 

Lynn Squance (232)
Saturday July 26, 2014, 12:29 pm
Barbara said "Israelites and Palestinians have equal rights to Israel ~ we're brothers and sisters, both descended lineally from the Jews of Canaan/Judea/Palestinae. We're Semitic ..."

So if Israelis and Palestinians have "equal rights to Israel", why did Israel expropriate land from Palestinians and establish what seems to be an endless number of new settlements? Yes this may be more a concern in the West Bank area, but it is still Palestine. And you are correct in saying that the Israelis and Palestinians are both Semitic peoples possessing a lineage through I believe Abraham. It might interest people to know that Jesus, Noah, Abraham and Moses are all considered prophets in Islam along with Muhammad. There are more commonalities than the average person knows.

Barbara said "...could have the major portion of Palestinae back from ARAB Jordan so we could spread out in our land without Arab invader/terrorists trying to blow us off the map "

And yet Israel would commit genocide ... wipe out the Palestinian people. Listen to Ayelet Shaked of the ruling coalition in the Israeli Knesset as she calls for the genocide of the Palestinians. Read about Ayelet Shaked in this article and others.

This is about ideological extremism, Hamas versus the extreme right in Israel. And this is not new in the world. Look at the extreme right in the US trying to make the US a plutocracy and a theocracy as the same time.

I pray for the innocents in this war . . . the children of Palestine and Israel . . . but I also pray for peace between all people.
 

Eleonora Oldani (46)
Saturday July 26, 2014, 1:29 pm

It's great fun to watch novices at work reinventing/re-writing the history of mankind as they please; … quite entertaining – thanks a lot, Barbara!!!

Palestinians are suddenly
1) non-Arabs and
2) Semitics
while Arabs are something different which must be by logic ... non-Semitics

I wonder what is next in the making.

PS What's the message you're trying to subtly convey in writing Palestine suddenly in Latin?

 

Eleonora Oldani (46)
Saturday July 26, 2014, 1:44 pm

Thanks for showing the "logic" of some arguments, Lynn. What always gets me in these discussions is the fact that the thread of history is picked up where it suits and fits the purpose. Doesn't say much for intellectual honesty ... but I try to understand it if that person is party to the conflict.

Barbara wants to kick out some "Arabs" which seems to be a past-time ingrained in those who invaded this unholy piece of land some millenia back, massacred, maimed and/or kicked out the Jebusites and claim now this land as theirs only on top of it promised by God as if he/she's a real estate broker. By Barbara's logic one should kick out those invaders too - the Israelites - and give the land back to its rightful owners - the Jebusites. Now we would need to check who was there before the Jebusites ... and so on.

But if this "kicking out" of non-Semitic people of the unholy land would be an acceptable modus then we should kick out first and foremost all the Ashkenazy Jews, the Ethiopian Jews, the Peruvian Jews, the Chinese Jews and so on as they're not of Semitic origin. Especially the Peruvian who where proselityzed to come over and settle exclusively in the Occupied Territories. Does nobody see where this leads to???

It is IMPOSSIBLE to turn the wheel of history back ... but to make things worse only to the point which suits the agenda of whomever. But if we do ... then the world as a whole would be on the move for the next decades starting with the "Americans, Australians, Canadians et al" ...

Lynn - if that means you've got to move ... you always have a place in my home!


 

Eleonora Oldani (46)
Saturday July 26, 2014, 2:02 pm

"Israel has known about the tunnels for several years, but has been hard-pressed to find an effective way to block them. Now it is counting on its ground war to at least reduce the threat. ... "Israel knew there was a problem with the tunnels, but it didn't internalize their significance," said Shlomo Brom, a retired Israeli general. "At any given moment, Hamas could send dozens of militants through separate tunnels to attack communities in Israel."

I don't quite understand why some people believe that everyone is gullible, naive or outright stupid? Does anyone in the right frame of mind truly believe in this tunnel network of which Israel had "since years detailed knowledge" and equally believes that Israel did nothing about it??!!

And Hamas - does anyone truly believe that if it exists Hamas would not have made use of it??

Leave out for once all the political rethoric and bragging - especially on Hamas's side - and honestly answer these questions.

Add to that that Egypt - which has much less access to sophisticated state of the art US technology than Israel - managed to destroy most tunnels leading into Egypt. Some were blown up - some were simply flooded or the entrance cemented and so on. But even if Israel didn't want to take such "drastic" steps in order to secure its citizens ... they could just simply arrest or even kill (the world community would not object anyway) anyone sticking his head out of the tunnel.

But yeah - with this no civilians would have been killed and no infrastructure could have been destroyed ...

The tunnels are nothing but a pre-text for Israel to again destroy the little infrastructure the Gazans managed to rebuild after the 2008/0 onslaught; something Israel has been doing on regular basis and it is a stupid pre-text for that.
 

Margaret Goodman (238)
Saturday July 26, 2014, 6:31 pm
John S. wrote,

"Thanks, they knew about the tunnels but not how many there is, Even now, while Israel estimates there are 45, American satellite technology has been able to detect at least 60 tunnels. "

I am really confused. If tunnels are such a threat and if American satellite technology is so good at detecting them, why hasn't Israel worked with the Americans to detect and destroy the tunnels earlier?
 

Ros G. (84)
Saturday July 26, 2014, 6:59 pm
'Don't laugh! I guarantee someone will' You're not wrong there Barbara, can't stop actually...you are just digging a deeper hole for yourself trying to justify the unjustifiable....careful you could end up on the Gaza side.....

Excellent point Margaret.....re: the tunnels...saw one of those tunnels the other night on SBS news....some Israeli soldiers were pointing out the opening on the Israel side to a news cameraman and low and behold.....within a couple of seconds...two "Hamas terrorist" crawled out with some type of rifles......
 

Barbara D. (79)
Saturday July 26, 2014, 7:50 pm
Arild, make a pit stop and drop a load. You'll feel better. maybe I missed it ~ was there something of world-stopping import in your comment?
So tell me, Israelis and Palestinians are Semitic. Hamas are Arab terrorists and Jordanians are Arabs. al-Abbas and the Palestinian Authority have been supplanted by terrorists using Palestine as a base camp and Jordan essentially controls Palestine.
And you think this is okay? Don't you think Palestinians should have their OWN voice instead of being sublimated under Arab terrorism? The Israelis are heartless, arrogant, ruthless monsters for not just packup and leaving Israel/Palestine/Levant ~ their homeland. By your definitiion, Palestinians have no right to the land.
So all of this is for the Palestinians, to assure a homeland for them, this tiny little sliver?
You've all decided that Israel has no claim to Israel, and since Palestinians are direct lineal descendants of the Israelites chuck 'em out too.
Tomorrow start e-mailing ibn al-Hussein, maybe a few petitions, and tell him that Arabic Jordanians will have to leave Palestine. Really, what right do they have??
Well, okay then. Job well done! Everyone with no valid claim is gone!

Something very weird here. I know you're not going to believe this, but this empty, open expanse of useless
desert wasteland ~ I swear to you it looks exactly like the Israeli homeland Israelis returned to over a hundred years ago,.
 

Barbara D. (79)
Saturday July 26, 2014, 8:01 pm
Okay, kiddies, time for........QUESTION OF THE DAY!

We cleared out Israel/Palestine, but we all made a bad judgement call, right? Right???
So we'll have the Israelis and Palestinians return to their true home to live in peace.

Question of the day: Which will be the first Arab country to bomb Israel and Palestine and how long before it happens????
 

Ros G. (84)
Saturday July 26, 2014, 9:02 pm
Gee Barbara we all known that Israel is paranoid about Iran...and you want to get nukes before they do..hence all this jumping up and down about the current talks in DC......maybe you should both get them at the same time........we are told that it is a good deterrent and keeps the Peace.......another question.......what makes you think it is going to be an Arab nation anyway??????? and who can really tell with all these proxy wars
 

Alexa R. (330)
Saturday July 26, 2014, 9:55 pm
It was an errant Hamas Rocket that killed their own children in the UN school ..

errant Hamas rocket -oops
 

Ros G. (84)
Saturday July 26, 2014, 10:32 pm
Thank you Alexa......but it is still not totally conclusive.....maybe we should just say both are to blame since both where found at the site.....at this stage..until investigations are finished.....instead of Israels claim that all the deaths are Hamas's fault
 

Parsifal O. (102)
Saturday July 26, 2014, 11:51 pm

I only wonder why by the gentle - and the less gentle commenters and the

'I'm a proud Zionist' poster

here was never mentioned why there can never be peace in the ME ?

Is it because Tel Aviv has created a controlled opposition with HAMAS ?

This is what Israel doesn't tell you about Hamas. Israel’s support for Hamas 'was a direct attempt to divide and dilute support for a strong, secular PLO by using a competing religious alternative', said a former senior CIA official.
 

Lynn Squance (232)
Sunday July 27, 2014, 12:28 am
Here is a link to a piece I posted earlier Author Naomi Wolf Challenged - Results Blow Her Mind Please read this short piece because it should provoke thought. My reaction follows:

When I was doing some reading, I came across this piece in the Daily Kos. There are 2 things that immediately came to mind: 1) the situation in Israel and Gaza; and 2) the right wing pseudo Christians of the US.

As to the first point, Wolf says "We as Jews are raised with the creed that "God gave us the land of Israel" in Genesis -- and that ethnically 'we are the chosen people." But actually ... actually God's "covenant" in Genesis, Exodus and Deuteronomy with the Jewish people is NOT ABOUT AN ETHNICITY AND NOT ABOUT A CONTRACT. IT IS ABOUT A WAY OF BEHAVING. ... it talks about welcoming "zarim" -- translated as "strangers" "

As to the second,
"He [God] says: IF you visit those imprisoned...act mercifully to the widow and the orphan...welcome the stranger in your midst...tend the sick...do justice and love mercy ....and perform various other tasks...THEN YOU WILL BE MY PEOPLE AND THIS LAND WILL BE YOUR LAND. "

Now, Christians are supposed to follow the teachings of Jesus. But as we watch the right wing pseudo Christians that are infesting the US Congress as part of the Republicanus/Teabaggers, they do not pay any attention to the teachings of Jesus. They seemed to be wholly vested in the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament). How interesting is it then that the Hebrew Scriptures also teach the same behaviour. This was God's covenant with the people. And when God finally was fed up with people, that's when a new covenant was made with them and this new covenant was Jesus.

I am not trying to provide a Biblical lesson, nor am I trying to convert anyone. And yes I am an authentic Christian. But it seems to me, whether modern day Israel or the US right wing pseudo Christians, they both have their game plans wrong yet they both say they are being faithful to Biblical record. Can't have it both ways under the existing circumstances

Thanks Eleonora. You are too gracious! I'm not sure how I would handle the heat though . . . are furbabes allowed?
 

Parsifal O. (102)
Sunday July 27, 2014, 2:47 am

Israel-Gaza conflict: The secret report that helps Israelis to hide facts:
Israeli spokesmen have their work cut out explaining how they have killed more than 1,000 Palestinians in Gaza, most of them civilians, compared with just three civilians killed in Israel by Hamas rocket and mortar fire. But on television and radio and in newspapers, Israeli government spokesmen such as Mark Regev appear slicker and less aggressive than their predecessors, who were often visibly indifferent to how many Palestinians were killed.
.
There is a reason for this enhancement of the PR skills of Israeli spokesmen. Going by what they say, the playbook they are using is a professional, well-researched and confidential study on how to influence the media and public opinion in America and Europe. Written by the expert Republican pollster and political strategist Dr Frank Luntz, the study was commissioned five years ago by a group called The Israel Project, with offices in the US and Israel, for use by those "who are on the front lines of fighting the media war for Israel".
.
Every one of the 112 pages in the booklet is marked "not for distribution or publication" and it is easy to see why. The Luntz report, officially entitled "The Israel project's 2009 Global Language Dictionary, was leaked almost immediately to Newsweek Online, but its true importance has seldom been appreciated. It should be required reading for everybody, especially journalists, interested in any aspect of Israeli policy because of its "dos and don'ts" for Israeli spokesmen.
.
These are highly illuminating about the gap ... to read on click the blue hotlink provided for your information as deemed necessary

 

Stan B. (122)
Sunday July 27, 2014, 2:49 am
Just imagine the carnage the Hamas cockroaches could have caused to innocent civilians if Israel hadn't been so vigilant. The only reason these retards get up in the morning is to try to slaughter Israeli civilians.
They have failed big time and I hope for the last time.
I sincerely hope the IDF doesn't pay any attention to world opinion and fights these terrorists until they are no longer a fighting force or a threat to Israel.
This is one war Israel needs to win.
 

Ros G. (84)
Sunday July 27, 2014, 4:32 am
Thank you Stan......they might win the battle.....but does anyone really win the war? Festering wounds...from you and your supporters they go back over 7000 years.....and have been waiting for this moment.......more festering wounds are going to be made that's all.........the only thing that will stop the cycle is for us humans to no longer exist on this planet.......now that would be a relief....
 

Parsifal O. (102)
Sunday July 27, 2014, 8:43 am
Stan B - do you like when I call your friends, the IDF murderer 'cockroaches' ?

At least we should be aware we are dealing with human beings and deal with the necessary respect, should we ?
 

Parsifal O. (102)
Sunday July 27, 2014, 12:23 pm
Stan B. I weonder why you Zionists are always so anti-semitic !
 

Stephen Brian (23)
Sunday July 27, 2014, 2:27 pm
Hi Eleonora :)

I'm thoroughly familiar with the "who's semitic" nomenclature discussion, and it's all dumb: Any culture that grew from the Semitic language-group is semitic, whether Hebrewm Arabic, Aramaic, or other. However, words are defined by their common use, which usually follows their logical construction, but not always. the term "antisemitism" was developed as, and is still primarily used as, a term for anti-Judaism "sanitized" as a form of straight-up racism (which was considered acceptable due to widespread acceptance of pseudoscience in the field of genetics) rather than religious bigotry (which was not acceptable to the "enlightened" people of the time when the term was developed). There is no way to guess this, especially if English is not your first language, but for the purposes of the term "semitic", Palestinians are obviously semitic, but for the purposes of the term "antisemitic", they are not.

I know exactly what you mean about the whole "picking up the thread of history thing, where people begin the narrative where it suits their purposes. That's a big part of why when I look at the whole conflict, I look 5,900 years back, to global aridification which triggered a major social singularity in the region. I'm not really a fan of history-based theories that fail to look as far back as is feasible. However, there are also the condition-based theories, where the obvious narrative tells little about the story. I've used the "dry forest in summer" analogy many times on Care2 recently, and I think that approach holds merit.

Also, about the tunnels: Hamas did make extensive use of it. I'd wondered how they managed to get massive Fajir-5s into the Gaza Strip until I saw how huge those tunnels were. Israel did know that there were tunnels, but the scale and sophistication of the network came as a surprise. Israel had been trying to do something about the tunnels, but only by destroying the ones found from the non-Gaza end. The problem is that to really get access to the tunnel-network, they had to investigate houses when they suspected something, and that costs soldiers' lives. This is actually the original reason behind the "bulldoze first, ask questions later" approach when they suspected houses were being used by militias, but that method doesn't work for tunnels. Now they're investigating rather than just destroying houses, bringing in people on foot rather than primarily in planes and tanks, and it's no surprise that they've taken far heavier military losses this time than in previous campaigns. Israel probably wouldn't accept this level of losses now either, except with ISIS active and reports of plans having been found to use the tunnels to launch a massive attack in a few months, they are willing to accept far greater losses to destroy the network.
 

Eleonora Oldani (46)
Sunday July 27, 2014, 2:35 pm

Thanks Lynn for this excellent comment and link you provided.

To this comment of yours "But it seems to me, whether modern day Israel or the US right wing pseudo Christians, they both have their game plans wrong yet they both say they are being faithful to Biblical record. " I would like to add those Muslims who willfully (mis)interpret the Qur'an in a way that fits and suits their personal agenda. The three monotheistic religions as such deserve our respect even if one doesn't believe in the concept.

But what the nutwings of all three religions make out of it to suit their personal power and control hunger is what needs to be fought against and I'll do that as long as I can.

To the private note: naturally furbabies are allowed - I have one myself! And the heat is dry and not as bad as combined with humidity and it's just a few months in summer. Although we have considerable shortage in energy we do have the luxury of A/C's if and when necessary. Just let me know about your travel plans and this holds also if you don't have to re-locate because of the above reasons ... :-)! Holidays are nice too in Egypt!
 

Barbara D. (79)
Sunday July 27, 2014, 4:38 pm
Parsifal, there is Hamas and there are the Palistinian people. You respect Hamas and would have us respect them too? And Hezbollah? ISIS, al-Qaeda, the Taliban?Respect the people who flew planes into our monuments.
No, I won't respect them, and anyone who defends them deserves even less.
The world sits by and what? Nothing.The towers go down and what? Nothing. 191 killed 1800 injured in Madrid?
Nothing. 166 civilians brutally slaughtered in Mombai. Two El Al, TWA, AirFrance, Sabena jetliners hijacked and passengers held hostage for weeksHamas boms Israel incessantly for 14yrs.

Because of saturation bombing of Israeli citizens...And the crowd goes WILD!!
Holy Mother of G*d, Henry! Those damn Israelis are at it again!
Panic in the strrets. Crazed goys run amuck trampling dozens.
Food shortages. Forced to eat gluten, non-organic veggies and...GASP!!!..I I can barely say it...GMO's.
The horror. Our worst nightmare!! Jews taking over the world!!
OMG! They'll make us say Oy and eat gefilte fish!
THE END
 

Barbara D. (79)
Sunday July 27, 2014, 4:42 pm
Stan, oh ye of little faith. Never forget ~ we get by with a little help from our Friend.
 

Eleonora Oldani (46)
Sunday July 27, 2014, 5:40 pm
Hi Stephen,

Why is it no surprise that you always feel the urge to lecture people on the most obvious of issues?

I believe that there are not many people who don’t know that the term “anti-Semitism” was coined by the German William Marr sometime towards the end of the 19th century. Common sense has it that is a total misnomer as it was and still is exclusively used with respect to anti-Jewish prejudices, actions and/or statements whereas correctly the term anti-Semitism describes discrimination against all Semites.

It is especially ridiculous today to use the term anti-Semitism exclusively when it comes to Jews as it’s a well established fact that the absolute majority of today’s Jews are Ashkenazim who come from East Europe and whose mother tongue was at no point in history Hebrew, one of the Semitic languages.

It is even more ridiculous to use this term if one compares numbers: there are approx. 5 Mio Jews in Israel who speak today a Semitic language (and some outside for liturgical reasons) compared to approx. 250 Mio Arabic speaking people of all three faith as well as pagan. Or take Amharic which is spoken today by some 27 Mio people, or Tigrinya which is today spoken by some 7 Mio people.

I was never willing to go along with linguistic inventions to serve a certain purpose and I never will. I do love clear terms; i.e. anti-Judaism – as this is a term which describes correctly prejudices, actions and/or statements against all those following the Judaic religion.

You say “There is no way to guess this, especially if English is not your first language, but for the purposes of the term "semitic", Palestinians are obviously semitic, but for the purposes of the term "antisemitic", they are not.” I hate to go into this because one will have to otherwise assume that you’re trying to demonstrate what happens when one looses all connections with common sense and proof what has been time and again proven …beyond the shadow of a doubt.

And no, it has nothing to do with guesswork or mastering English but a lot with knowledge.

Irrespective of the above facts the “anti-Semitism bat” is undusted time and again if one whispers a word against anything polit-Israel deems appropriate or necessary to inflict or implement against the Palestinians.

As with respect to the sophisticated tunnel network the extent of which was "unknown" to Israel ... well, if it suits your frame of mind continue believing in fairytales. I don't.

Fact is that Hamas obviously never used the tunnels leading into Israel … if one likes to believe this Hasbara which is “suddenly” supported by US satellite images! How does my good friend Ros say … “Pigs do fly”! My simpleton's logic tells me that there would have been a huge PR campaign from polit-Israel to exploit this network of tunnels to the fullest before starting military (covert or open) actions against Gaza/Hamas.

What really "surprises" me (not) and what skipped my mind yesterday while commenting is the fact how bigoted this tunnel situation is handled comparing Egypt and Israel.

Some time before Mubarak was toppled in 2011 - if memory serves me right it was some time between 2008 and 2010 - the USA (under pressure from Israel) went so far as to cut the aid to Egypt considerably in order to force Mubarak's regime to do something tangible about the tunnels. So Egypt blew up tunnels, cemented them, flodded them ... and more such niceties. Egypt was even forced to build a steel wall into the ground (some 25 m deep if I recall correctly) along the border with Gaza - all to stop the tunnels and its traffic.

Interesting that none of these knee-jerking was applied to Israel (although Israel gets an “x times” higher amount in US aid) and its inactivity towards these tunnels leading into Israel which we are told now existed since years and were known to Israel all along. I'm almost willing to take a bet that you will come up with something ... resembling an "explanation" ...

 

Ros G. (84)
Monday July 28, 2014, 2:39 am
Update on Alexa R......comment "errant Hamas rocket, oops"

"Ros, this is what is inhumane: an errant Hamas rocket killed the children in the UN school".......

Was just watching ABC news (7pm 28/07) Israel has said it was responsible for this bombing but now they don't believe that 15 people were killed.........it is appropriate that you call this inhumane....now we know who really is inhumane.......you spread propaganda, your take joy in finger pointing......and you really don't give a rats what your Country does......there is a name for people who enjoy the death and suffering of others.....don't need to spell it out......you have all been educated enough.....to know
 

Stan B. (122)
Monday July 28, 2014, 2:53 am
Ros G. It's good to see you posting something without appearing to be one of Sam or Marc's groupies.
That is definitely an improvement.
I've already said but I'll say it again for the slow learners on Care 2. Hamas has violated SIX ceasefires, including one they themselves asked for. There is no evidence that Israel has deliberately targeted civilians in this conflict.
Hamas are the real war criminals for deliberately putting civilians in harm's way in Gaza.
They are the worst kind of terrorists and Israel is well within its rights to get rid of them.
 

Ros G. (84)
Monday July 28, 2014, 4:03 am
Why thank you Sam....I am blushing.......never have been called a Groupie before.......you obviously have seen this news report on ABC tonight otherwise you wouldn't be so congenial......actually I was just going to address....Barbara's (another Groupie) statement:

"The horror. Our worst nightmare!! Jews taking over the world!!" maybe you are in "Fear of a Brown Planet" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38j8pSOekiY ........it's comedy Barbara...
 

Ros G. (84)
Monday July 28, 2014, 4:06 am
See there I go......so dazzled......Stan........I forgot who I was talking to........
 

Ros G. (84)
Monday July 28, 2014, 4:57 am
Sorry Stan..interrupted by an invoice run....and of course it's Tax time...the pleasures of owing a business........didn't mean to leave you without a little humour as well.....I am sure you would like a bit of Red Symons .....and it really does fit in with your comment: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uymBoCuAFtU.......have to admit.......it's better than Q&A at the moment
 

Sandra Penna (109)
Monday July 28, 2014, 5:52 am
Please do the math, Stephen: http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/07/22/if-gazas-dead-were-americas-dead/
 

Sandra Penna (109)
Monday July 28, 2014, 6:04 am
"an errant Hamas rocket killed the children in the UN school"??? This is almost stupid as saying that the concentration camps in Germany never existed.
 

Ros G. (84)
Monday July 28, 2014, 6:26 am
Thank you Sandra....can not send you a Green Star but I can send you this......http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oT57tjz9py8

 

Sandra Penna (109)
Monday July 28, 2014, 6:35 am
Thank you, Ros, I love this song. I found another interesting article from a medical doctor in Gaza: https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/articles/middle-east/12920-letter-from-gaza-by-a-norwegian-doctor
 

Parsifal O. (102)
Monday July 28, 2014, 12:28 pm
Barbara D. said:

'Respect the people who flew planes into our monuments'

No.
Because Saudi Arabia is the worst democracy on the world. Mybe this is why it is a close ally to the one and only democracy in the ME and to the USSA.

As to Hamas:

People REALLY should be aware WHO created this group and WHY !

This is what Israel doesn't tell you about Hamas. Israel’s support for Hamas 'was a direct attempt to divide and dilute support for a strong, secular PLO by using a competing religious alternative', said a former senior CIA official.

Then in your comment you would go on to say:

'Jews taking over the world!!'

First, I would ask you to refrain posting anti semitic content.

Secondly, it is not the Jews because like every other people in the world, the 'Jews' want peace and master their life such as every people in the world.
:
It is not the Jews who want to take over the world but

the ZioNazi HAVE already taken over the world by playing toe (poor) victime role and blaming every one who oppose their genocide-agenda against the natives of Palestine with the ZioNazi Haul: ANTI SEMITE !!!

This time, you have fallen into your own trap.
Poor victim !
 

Barbara D. (79)
Monday July 28, 2014, 3:36 pm
Sandra, *"an errant Hamas rocket killed the children in the UN school"??? This is almost stupid as saying that the concentration camps in Germany never existed.*
And THAT comment took a hike past stupid to ludricrous. Hamas (or I should actually say the Palestinian people) has a big problem with their rockets misfiring and landing in Gaza ~ another reason they should be firing from the open spaces on the border instead of hunkering down in neighborhoods. Why are there so many fewer Israeli casualties ~Hamas just can't seem to get the knack of how to aim a rocket. Okay, here's the broad side of barn, keep trying and see if you can hit it.
Seriously, a rocket hits half a block from a school teeming with kids. Tell me they weren't trying to hit the school ~they would never think about doing something so evil ~ they carefully aimed the rocket so as not to do harm, just close enough to scare everybody. Which in and of itself is pretty damn mean ~ scaring little kids!

I'm just throwing this in ~ just another school of thought:
*Israel Miracle? Gaza Strip Hamas Complain, ‘Their God Changes The Paths Of Our Rockets In Mid-Air’

If Carrie posted an article from al-Jazeera that said the Holocaust never happened half of Care2 would be leaving comments, *I never believed that either*, *Just another pack of Jewish lies*, *Everything out of a Jew's mouth is lie*.

I LOVE some of these comments, actually no, it's tragic. Did it ever occur to any of these people to verify information, look at some history books? All of them parroting the same rot over and over,. patting themselves on the back because they're saying what everybody else is saying, and if you do that you get to be part of the cool crowd. Good for the self-esteem to know you're exactly like everybody else.
 

Ros G. (84)
Monday July 28, 2014, 10:07 pm
Barbara........Israel has taken the responsibility for the UN school bombing......but doesn't believe 15 people were killed..........many have seen the first Holocaust......and many are seeing the second Holocaust
 

Sandra Penna (109)
Tuesday July 29, 2014, 4:42 am
Barbara, don't try to teach me anything about the holocaust. You know nothing about me. In my family had an aunt who was in Buchenwald concentration camp.
 

Sandra Penna (109)
Tuesday July 29, 2014, 5:16 am
I was born in 1958. Never knew this aunt, but I know very well her story. I have no religion, but part of my family is jewish and suffered greatly, even living in Brazil. I grew up very aware of the horrors of WWII.
 

Ros G. (84)
Tuesday July 29, 2014, 5:30 am
Thank you Sandra...will fill you in on a little background....You had family in the holocaust...I lost family in the holocaust too...and Barbara had family lost in the holocaust.......so we are all in the same boat......but the thing that Barbara regrets the most is that they lost a family business that was built up over generations and they have not been compensated for.......it seems the loss of money is more important than the loss of life..........which is understandable given her thinking......my family home/business is still in tact........not that any of us wants to claim on it...or have been compensated in any way.........we are happy that is the foundations of our family...irrespective of who owns it now...
 

Eleonora Oldani (46)
Tuesday July 29, 2014, 6:15 am
Ros and Sandra - you don't understand that Israel as of late takes the responsibility for such heinous crimes even and especially if committed by Hamas! That's why they confirm that they bombed the UN facilities; very much like in the last Gaza assault and very much like in Lebanon 2006 where they equally bombarded the UN facilities 14 times killing in the process 4 UN observers.

On a personal note: Ros is one of my very good friends and am familiar with some of her personal history. But I'd like to tell you that I'm sorry to hear now that you too have had family members who were in a concentration camp. I have (1 socialist and 1 catholic) "married-on" family members who have lost both maternal and paternal grandparents in Bergen-Belsen and in Maydanek resp. I'm not that good with words in such cases - I can only begin to imagine your pain. Stay safe!
 

Ros G. (84)
Tuesday July 29, 2014, 7:40 am
My Dearest Eleonora... I do know that Israel has admitted that they were responsible for the bombing UN school have posted that on other threads and this one too..., I (as a family) are well and truly beyond this "history" My immediate family was actually very fortunate..they didn't have to endure the Concentration Camps....they were just shot down in front of everyone for being "dissidents" .....Not something they build monuments about..........unlike some......But you have to keep things in perspective the German people.....did vote in Hitlers Party ..time and time again......unlike the People of Gaza they didn't vote for the Israeli Parliment
 

Barbara D. (79)
Tuesday July 29, 2014, 9:15 am
And the true Palestinians had a free election when???

Sandra, if you re-read that comment I was addressing the fact that sheeple believe what they're told because they don't have the motivation to think.

Ros, you are as cold, heartless, and uncaringly as you accuse your *enemies* of being! I'm more concerned with money? Sc**w you, b**ch.
I'm concerned with a world that sees terror and goes, *Tsk Tsk*, and goes back to sleep.
Even though terrorists are attacking and demolishing Iran, and terrorists in Syria are massacring soldiers and civilians, and in Iraq Christians are being dragged from their homes and murdered or forced to disperse, and the terrorists in Gaza have allied with Sunnis to force out the Palestinian government...I suppose it's inconceivable to you that Hamas has anything but the purest motives. It's obvious in their concern for and protection of the people.
Gotta run. Enjoy a little more BiBi Bashing and go back to sleep.
 

Barbara D. (79)
Tuesday July 29, 2014, 9:34 am
*UN issues warnings over escalating violence in the Middle East and new reports of threats of terrorist attacks on foreign soil.*

Not to worry, just militant terrorist boys being militant terrorist boys. Go back to sleep.
 

Eleonora Oldani (46)
Tuesday July 29, 2014, 2:51 pm

My dear Ros - when the name calling starts ... is when you know that you hit the right nerve(s) - LOL!

Yes, adult and mature people usually come at some point to terms with the family history and I know we did. I dare to include Sandra in this statement; she doesn't sound like someone who spreads her family history in pursuit of a personal agenda. Rather she sounds very sincere in every aspect of her various postings I've read so far.

On the side note of Germans voting in Hitler and his party time and again: I've read extensively about the period before and when Hitler came to power and the surrounding circumstances in an effort to try to understand the abstract as I was born just 6 years after WWII.

"Although and naturally" everybody today would refuse such ideas and party programs and would never admit what I'm going to say now ... I would not dare to put my hand in the fire as we say in German and say that I wouldn't have voted for Hitler - always under the exact same circumstances as they were in the late 20's and early/mid 30's of last century in Germany.

And whether or not I would have voted for Hitler and his party - I truly hope that I would have found the courage and character strength (Martin Niemoeller's poem comes to mind!) and fight him and the Nazi-ideology once it was clear what happened to the deported people of all faiths and sphere of society, I do hope that I would have done the right thing and in a way I'm glad that I will never know what I would have really done. Words come so easy today - but to take action way back then ... was basically as good as signing the own death certificate.

I know that you (and Sandra?) do understand what I'm trying to say.

Stay both safe!
 

Barbara D. (79)
Tuesday July 29, 2014, 4:32 pm
My dear Eleonora, if you think that Ros's comment and what she implied is acceptable from someone who claims to be a civilized member of what Care2 calls a *caring community*, then obviously you are of the very same ilk.

It's no fun LOL'ing alone, so why don't you join hands and LOLOLOLOL at how very clever you are.
 

Ros G. (84)
Tuesday July 29, 2014, 5:55 pm
LOL My Dear Eleonora...and here I was thinking, Barbara she was sending 4 Green Stars...I like you were born after the war.. but still in Europe.......I do fully understand what you are saying........it is a question that I asked my Oma (fathers mother) often......my parents, aunties and uncles were to young to vote and it was a question they asked often as well...but many did speak out...there was a strong Resistance (Underground) present at the time......they were the unsung heroes, many lost their lives in SS raids on their homes.......

As for our voting habits today ......not sure if we are any different....voting is compulsory in Australia from the age of 18.........you always know which Party is going to get in......promises like tax breaks, baby bonuses and of course those that can bring in the harshest treatment of the "perceived enemy " who is undermining our way of life...does it hands down every time.....but we had a new twist in our last elections the Party omitted to mention what it intended to do to the people even the ones that voted for them......what most have failed to see is that we have been on a course to move to the far right.. ever since 1996 now it's to late to change both our major parties are dominated by Right Wingers.....

Interesting listening to a reporter the other day from Israel..........he said that 90% of Israelis are "Hawkes" and that 80% of the Government are "Hawkes".......so in some ways the Government is giving the people what they want........

Sorry to go off topic


 

Eleonora Oldani (46)
Wednesday July 30, 2014, 12:13 am
Interesting that you felt addressed by my comment, Barbara. While reading your last posting the old saying came to my mind - and I wonder why (?): "If you sit in a hole - stop digging!". But it's early morning here and I had only my first morning coffee ... maybe that's why?
 

Eleonora Oldani (46)
Wednesday July 30, 2014, 12:16 am
Oh, one more thing, Barbara, as I don't want to give the impression that I'm not appreciative: thanks for your compliment that I'm of the same "ilk" as Ros.

It's an honor badge for me which I happily stick on my lapel!
 

Sam H. (403)
Wednesday July 30, 2014, 12:28 am
Ros's ilk is the bestest!
 

Sam H. (403)
Wednesday July 30, 2014, 12:33 am
By Richard Cherry

Got news for those claiming Hamas started this, they didn't, but here's the point and all else is basically irrelevant. It doesn't matter in the courts who started a war, they could give a turtle's butt about that. It's who is committing WAR crimes. Well, they started it so we just collectively kill everybody, women, children, babies, in hospitals, schools, ambulance, UN shelters, children on the beach, whole families in their homes, Bomb UN vehicles, kill doctors and reporters. Now tell me what that kind of butchering, has to do with who the heck started it? Israel is committing war crimes and that's all the courts need to know. Oh, your honors by the way, we have had these people we took the land from, blockaded in an open air prison for 8 years, they have nowhere to run and nowhere to hide. We blow them up whereever they run for safety and while they are running, even children.

We even kill those looking for the bodies of their love ones, even if they are UNARMED, because we can.
 

Eleonora Oldani (46)
Wednesday July 30, 2014, 12:43 am
LOL - my dear Ros!!! I do believe that this was a compliment and Green Stars in disguise - our good Barbara just doesn't know how to express herself ... especially when the Adrenalin rushes through her veins. As I said before: when people loose "it" ... they're not to be held accountable anymore. Some can't be held accountable at any time for what they're saying.

As for your comment regarding voting habits - let me answer with what Herman Goering, Hitler's Reich's Marshall, said at the Nuremberg Trials after WWII:

“Naturally, the common people don’t want war, but after all, it is the leaders of a country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag people along whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders.

This is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in every country.”

And the Reich's Propaganda Minister Goebbels is known for "to repeat a lie so often that people come to believe it."

It gives me at times the chills if I see the striking resemblance of today's politicians behaviour with the Nazi-Reich. Only brain-dead people or those who lack history education can't (or don't want?) to see this undisputable fact.

Stay safe "down under" ...
 

Eleonora Oldani (46)
Wednesday July 30, 2014, 12:48 am
Good morning to you, Sam! While I agree with both of your postings ;-) you forgot something at the end:

" ... because we can." I'd add " ... and we want!". Bibi and his buddies was clear on numerous occasions in which direction this latest onslaught will go if it's left up to polit-Israel.

After all and to make it short ... every man has the "equiment" to rape women but very few actually do!
 

Stan B. (122)
Wednesday July 30, 2014, 3:05 am
Petition to Israel's Ambassador to Australia supporting Israel's fight against Hamas terrorists. Please sign.

http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/letter-of-support-from-australians-to-israel/sign.html

 

Sam H. (403)
Wednesday July 30, 2014, 3:26 am
The Carnage in Gaza
 

Ros G. (84)
Wednesday July 30, 2014, 6:35 am
In all fairness to myself.......I did warn Barbara that she was digging a hole and if she starts on the Israel side it could well end up in Gaza......

“Naturally, the common people don’t want war, but after all, it is the leaders of a country who determine the policy......True Eleonora.......but they play the mood of the people first....only underhanded Parties bring in differing Policies after being elected...the joys of being a democrazy..

and talking about Down Under.....another one has been reserected......Stan B I actually did go into your petition.....how many people have signed?? Normally sites will tell you this...but not in this case....why??? Now you are starting to look like Barbara's Groupie.....a word of advice.....variety is the spice of life, Stan..........don't get hooked up with a dowager......... Thank you Sam ***Wink***
 

Ros G. (84)
Wednesday July 30, 2014, 7:01 am
Time for bed......but I leave you with this song.....Stan you would remember the story of the "Choir of Hard Knocks" well not only did they rebuild their own lives but the helped rebuild others........and the same will happen for the People of Palestine........which means you won't watch this.........but others will......the homeless rebuilding lives......for the homeless..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PLo7KZfc-0
 

Barbara D. (79)
Wednesday July 30, 2014, 11:39 am
Oh, my! I've been warned! This coming from someone who thinks Sunni terrorists are going to help the *People of Palestine* who are Shi'a and Jews to rebuild their lives.

Ros, you do know, don't you, that when you snidely comment on another person's character and motivations you're revealing your own?
 

Eleonora Oldani (46)
Wednesday July 30, 2014, 1:19 pm
Stan oh' Stan! Did you truly sign this "letter of support for Israel"? With such a wording I would not even sign if it where for a truly just and humane cause.

In order to know what we're talking about - here's the letter:

His Excellency Shmuel Ben-Shmuel
Ambassador of Israel to Australia
6 Turrana Street
Yarralumla ACT 2600


Your Excellency;

We, the undersigned citizens and residents of Australia, would like to convey our support for the people of Israel, who are once more under attack by savage Islamic terrorists. Our thoughts and prayers are with you.

In the conflict between the civilised man and the savages, the vast majority of Australians will always stand with Israel, no matter what some misguided student or anti-Semitic politician may say. We have not forgotten that Israel is the only liberal democracy left in the Middle East which protects human rights and the rule of law.

May strength and good fortunes be with the brave men and women in the IDF and other services, who are bearing the brunt of combatting these genocidal Islamic ideologues. May the memory of those who gave their all be blessed.

We hope that Israel’s people and your government will remain determined to demilitarize Gaza, with the least possible casualties on all sides. Only by disarming or incapacitating the terrorists can this conflict be brought to an end, so that the people of Israel and her neighbours may live once again in peace.

~*~*~*~

This phrase "In the conflict between the civilised man and the savages, the vast majority of Australians will always stand with Israel, ..." ... seems to be right ouf Prof. emeritus Bernard Lewis' "Clash of Civilization" Hasbara piece which he publicised in 1992 in the US.

Whoever phrased this letter seems to be mentally bankrupt - sorry for me saying so.
 

Eleonora Oldani (46)
Wednesday July 30, 2014, 1:56 pm

These are BREAKING NEWS by Barbara:

"... the *People of Palestine* who are Shi'a and Jews ..."

Somehow there must have been a mass-conversion taking place without anyone noticing and/or reporting on it.

Having read the above statement by Barbara I was somehow ... flabbergasted … I did a quick check and every site I consulted comes up with the same old and outdated stories - obviously they have not been enlightened or were not privy to Barbara's information!

So far it is (obviously outdated acc. to Barbara) common knowledge that the vast majority of Palestinian Muslims (approx. 91%) are Sunni Muslims; of these some 1.5 % are Shia (this includes the Druze) and a very small number of Ahmadiyya; 6 % are Christians of various sub-denominations and some “others”. Oh ... and then there are some 550 - 600 Samaritans. These figures apply to the Occupied Territories.

Within Israel “proper” the religious split is roughly some 75.5 % Jewish, 16.8 % Muslim, 2.1 % Christian and 1.7 % Druze (a Shia branch) and 3.9 % other.

Now we're told that all of the above regarding (Sunni and Shia) Muslims is absolutely wrong!

I do hope that the world media do take note of Barbara’s knowledge and start educating people about the true nature of the religions in this unholy land.

Peace - Shalom -Salam!
 

Barbara D. (79)
Wednesday July 30, 2014, 2:33 pm
Eleonora, since the Palestinians are the lineal descendants of the Semitic Israelites of Canaan (as are modern Israelis) you are absolutely correct in questioning if there was a mass conversion. However, you need to amend your wording to enforced conversion.
 

Eleonora Oldani (46)
Wednesday July 30, 2014, 4:02 pm
Barbara - you and I know that - as always - you're dancing around the issue ... I just can't help but wonder: who do you hope to kid? Nobody in the right frame of mind would ever try to sell to even the most gullible people on the planet that the Ashkenazim (the absolute majority of modern Israelis) are the lineal descendants of Semitic Israelites of Canaan. Nice try though ...

As Ros so aptly said: "Pigs do fly" ...
 

Eleonora Oldani (46)
Wednesday July 30, 2014, 4:22 pm

I just got this in from Gush Shalom's Adam Keller - please help to disseminate this widely - thanks a lot!

~*~*~*~

PEACE BUS [to Gaza] CONTINUES

Friday, August 1, 9am, the Peace Bus will leave Jerusalem, carrying medicines and clothes, as well as flowers, intended for the people of Gaza. Also postcards written by Israelis and addressed to Gazans, trying to bridge the terrible abyss. En route the bus will go through Tel Aviv and Be'er Sheba and visit the Israeli communities on the Gaza border.

Please come on board to make the message of the Peace Bus stronger and to meet people living on the border of the conflict region. Presenting a message of peace in the conflict zone is of vital importance, as is maintaining touch between Israel's center and perphery - to stay together.

Collection of medicines (everyone has some new, unused medicines he or she doesn't need, which can be donated to hospitals in Gaza), money for medicines and clothes started already on Sunday. Contact vmmessage-peacebus@yahoo.com and will make an afford to come and pick up your donation. All donations will be delivered to Gaza by our activists.

Write a postcard with a message of peace for Gaza or if you are far: send the message via email. We need them by the end of the next week. We will translate all messages in English and Hebrew into Arabic.
For Thursday, July 31, 6pm, Jerusalem, is planned DEMONSTRATION at Kikar Safra, (Jerusalem Municipality Square), and decoration of the Peace Bus with flowers

We are ready to come on the 3rd Journey and deliver medicines to the people in Gaza (we start collecting the medicine and the money to buy medicines in order to provided both direct and symbolic support from Israelis to the Gazans during the humanitarian catastrophe). Let's take a one day break, collect energy and start Sunday with some ideas and actions. First things first - we need to contribute ourselves and find foundations supporting our project ...

We just got back from the town of Sderot on the Gaza border, where on our 2nd bus journey we visited families who support peaceful solution of the conflict and were inspired by conversations. We've been also on a our condolences visit to a Bedouin camp next to Dimona, where a part of a rocket fired by Hamas (after the rocket was intercepted, but some shrapnel fell down) killed a Bedouin man and wounded his children. It was a good journey and more will follow. I apologize, folks, that the web-radio broadcasting came short this time, some technical stuff we'll have to learn how to solve.

Our vision is to create the reality where Palestinians and Israelis can live in peace and dignity. We are not offering political solutions nor do all of us have a common political view. We do not have ready recipes. But what we a certain of is that we cannot continue hating, fighting, killing each other. In 66 years of war we could not achieve any permanent solution - we believe that it's time to try a different path.

On the Peace Bus we promote principles of tolerance, understanding and non-violence. People of all religions, colors, nations, genders come together in the loving attitude to see what the media is trying to hide away from us – a true face of the so called "enemy". In the eyes of an Israeli and Palestinian child you will discover innocence and remember yourself once being a child, free from prejudices and hate. In this moment we mourn for all those who perished during this unnecessary and tragic conflict: not just in the current one, but for all the innocents who lost their lives in the war of hatred.

We want to see the perspectives of both sides: suffering of Palestinians and Israelis alike. We are all human beings who happened to be raised as enemies. And this is a real tragedy. We can not live in peace as long as other side is suffering. Therefore, the PEACE IS OUR COMMON GOAL!


Contact:

Amir Harash 054-7689939 amirhara@yahoo.com ,
Dorian Levin 054-4789911 levindorian@gmail.com;
Nomika Zion 054-7689181 nomika@migvan.org.il
 

Ros G. (84)
Wednesday July 30, 2014, 5:56 pm

"Whoever phrased this letter seems to be mentally bankrupt" LOL Eleonora.......and it appears that they aren't the only ones.....Barbara you must be delusional as well.....

 

Barbara D. (79)
Wednesday July 30, 2014, 7:14 pm
*Recent studies have been conducted on a large number of genes homologous chromosomes or autosomes (all chromosomes except chromosomes X and Y). A 2009 study was able to genetically identify individuals with full or partial Ashkenazi Jewish ancestry.[3] In August 2012, Dr. Harry Ostrer in his book Legacy: A Genetic History of the Jewish People, summarized his and other work in genetics of the last 20 years, and concluded that all major Jewish groups share a common Middle Eastern origin.
Studies of autosomal DNA, which look at the entire DNA mixture, have become increasingly important as the technology develops. They show that Jewish populations have tended to form relatively closely related groups in independent communities, with most in a community sharing significant ancestry in common.[15] For Jewish populations of the diaspora, the genetic composition of Ashkenazi, Sephardi, and Mizrahi Jewish populations show a predominant amount of shared Middle Eastern ancestry. According to Behar, the most parsimonious explanation for this shared Middle Eastern ancestry is that it is "consistent with the historical formulation of the Jewish people as descending from ancient Hebrew and Israelite residents of the Levant" and "the dispersion of the people of ancient Israel throughout the Old World".*

*The study, published in the May 9 issue of the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, found that Jewish men shared a common set of genetic signatures with Palestinians, Syrians, and Lebanese, and these signatures diverged significantly from non-Jewish men outside of this region. Consequently, Jews and Levantines share a common ancestor and are more closely related to one another than to non-Jews from other areas of the world.*
*“In some of the dry and dusty Palestinian and Bedouin villages, they still circumcise their boys after the seventh day,” writes Mark Ellis. Hidden away in some Palestinian homes are Jewish mezuzahs and tefillin. Many residents continue lighting candles on the Sabbath. Mossek filmed a Palestinian home where the Jewish mezuzah was hidden under a shelf, and the tefillin are hidden among the socks in a dresser. A mezuzah is a parchment of scripture placed on the doorpost by religious Jews. Tefillin, also known as phylacteries, are a set of small boxes containing scrolls of parchment inscribed with scripture, which are worn by observant Jews during morning prayers.
A Palestinian woman interviewed on the program says, “That is how I pray and everyone keeps the secret.”
“Will your little boy find out he is Jewish? an interviewer asks.
“He will find out eventually,” she says.*
*Genetic analysis proves that a majority of the Muslims of Palestine, inclusive of Arab citizens of Israel, are descendants of Jews and other earlier inhabitants of the southern Levant whose core may reach back to prehistoric times.*
*A study of haplotypes of the Y chromosome, published in 2000, addressed the paternal origins of Ashkenazi Jews. Hammer et al.[30] concluded that the Y chromosome of most Ashkenazi and Sephardi Jews contained mutations that are also common among Middle Eastern peoples, but uncommon in the general European population. This suggested that the male ancestors of the Ashkenazi Jews could be traced mostly to the Middle East. The proportion of male genetic admixture in Ashkenazi Jews amounts to less than 0.5% per generation over an estimated 80 generations, with "relatively minor contribution of European Y chromosomes to the Ashkenazim," and a total admixture estimate "very similar to Motulsky's average estimate of 12.5%." However, when all haplotypes were included in the analysis, the admixture percentage increased to 23% ± 7%.[Note 3] Hammer et al. add that "Diaspora Jews from Europe, Northwest Africa, and the Near East resemble each other more closely than they resemble their non-Jewish neighbors.*
*Two studies by Nebel et al. in 2001 and 2005, based on Y chromosome polymorphic markers, suggested that Ashkenazi Jews are more closely related to other Jewish and Middle Eastern groups than to their host populations in Europe (defined in the using Eastern European, German, and French Rhine Valley populations).*
*Many genetic studies have demonstrated that most of the various Jewish ethnic divisions and the Palestinians and other Levantines, like the Druze[12][13][17][39] and Bedouin,[12][13] are genetically identical*
*One DNA study by Nebel and colleagues found genetic evidence in support of historical records that "part, or perhaps the majority" of Muslim Palestinians descend from "local inhabitants, mainly Christians and Jews, who were forced to convert after the Islamic conquest in the seventh century AD".[92] They also found substantial genetic overlap between Muslim Palestinians and Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews.*
*In a study of Israeli and Palestinians, more than 70% of the Jewish men and 82% of the Arab men whose DNA was studied, had inherited their Y chromosomes from the same paternal ancestors, who lived in the region within the last few thousand years. "Our recent study of high-resolution microsatellite haplotypes demonstrated that a substantial portion of Y chromosomes of Jews (70%) and of Palestinians (82%) belonged to the same chromosome pool."
 

Parsifal O. (102)
Friday August 1, 2014, 6:01 am
show me a study which is not TOTALLY faked for the benefit of the ZioNazi...
 

Barbara D. (79)
Tuesday August 5, 2014, 11:27 am
I'd be surprised that a Masters molecular biologist with PhD's in human genetics and physical anthropology at Kiel University in Germany would fudge reports on her studies, complete with 224 references, and convince her 5 associates to cover it up. That's just one published study and I can give you at least 6-7 more. Yeah, yeah, they're ALL faked, right?.

But I can provide references and documentation. What can you provide to validate your statements?
 

Alexa R. (330)
Wednesday November 12, 2014, 10:10 pm
I quote:

Hamas is one of the two richest terrorist organizations in the world, second only to the Islamic State group, according to Forbes Israel.

To finance their operations, terrorist groups sometime use methods similar to those used by criminal organizations, such as drug trafficking, robberies and extortion, but also raise money through charities, donations and, in some cases, government agencies, according to the report. A terrorist organization, like any other large organization, has a business model to finance its activities: from maintenance, salaries and trainings, to acquiring of weapons and vehicles.

The richest terrorist organization today – and in history – is the Islamic State. According to Forbes, the Islamist group, also known by the acronyms ISIS or ISIL, has an annual turnover of $2 billion. Hamas comes in second, with a yearly revenue of $1 billion.

As for the rest of the list: Colombia's FARC is ranked third with $600 million; Hezbollah is fourth with $500 million; fifth is the Taliban with $400 million; Al-Qaida and its affiliates with $150 million; Pakistani-based Lashkar e-Taiba with $100 million; Somalia's Al-Shabaab with $100 million; Real IRA with $50 million; and, closing the top-ten list is Boko Haram, with $25 million annual revenue.

The U.S. Treasury estimates that ISIS earns $1 million a day from the sale of crude oil from fields it captured in Syria and Iraq. According to Forbes Israel, however, the figure is closer to $3 million a day. The money flow enables ISIS to expand its operations in the Middle East, recruit foreign fighters and train them, among other things.

The report describes Hamas' takeover of Gaza in 2007 as the point from which it entered "the big league." Today, Hamas is now no longer only dependent on donations, but is able to collect taxes from both civilians and businesses. But that's not all. The report says Hamas also takes a cut out of all international aid donated to Gaza by Arab and other foreign countries.
 

Alexa R. (330)
Wednesday November 12, 2014, 10:11 pm
How any person can DEFEND, SUPPORT or FUND this is beyond me ..
 
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