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What Jesus Really Said About Homosexuality


Society & Culture  (tags: Jesus, Homosexuality, Bible, Jewish Law, Commandments, sin, Gay Marriage )

Franco
- 856 days ago - jesusonhomosexuality.com
To the surprise of many this informative story tells us how Jesus really felt about homosexuality. This is a real eye opener. Not long but very deep, and a real mind changer. Amazing. This man was all about LOVE. And Love I wish to all of you. Enjoy!



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Comments

Franco Di Palma (374)
Friday May 18, 2012, 5:35 pm
This is a most amazing story. I know many of you here do not judge. Since the president announce that he was in favor of gay marriage the religious right has filled the blogs with propaganda, lies and deception. They would like you to believe that gay and lesbian people are evil, sinful and damned to hell. This article explains why they are not. Jesus purposely left out any mention of homosexuality when talking about sin and the commandments. This article backs it up.
 

Dandelion G. (382)
Friday May 18, 2012, 6:30 pm
Thank you Franco. I will read more of it tomorrow, is getting late and I want to make a worthy comment. I did note it, and I'll forward it so that others may view it, then I'll come back.
 

Holly Lawrence (473)
Friday May 18, 2012, 6:40 pm
Thank You, Franco ..it's all about love and I know you are, too! WIll share this with as many as I can ...
 

Kathy P. (402)
Friday May 18, 2012, 6:47 pm
Thank you Franco.
 

Laura H. (888)
Friday May 18, 2012, 7:04 pm
Thank you...
noted and will share.
:)
 

Rita De Vos (87)
Friday May 18, 2012, 7:08 pm
Thank you very much for this post Franco! Thank you Sheryl for the forward!
It seems a very interesting article and I will take the necessary tme to read it properly & completely tomorrow when I am more rested ;) This is something that touches me personally as I am myself legally married to a woman and its a fact that there are still lots of prejudices caused by the intolerance of the religions. Time for me to get some sleep now :)
 

Bianca D. (86)
Friday May 18, 2012, 8:29 pm
Great post Franco, and thanks Sandra for pointing me this way.

Honour true love, however it shows up!

* . * . * It's time for us to create the world we dream of living in * . * .*
 

Kamila A. (141)
Friday May 18, 2012, 8:59 pm
Above all, love one another. That is the heart of the meaning of life. Leave all judgments to God regarding worthiness lest you judge wrongly.
Thank you Franco! thank you Dandelion for pointing to this
 

Daniel Partlow (189)
Friday May 18, 2012, 9:25 pm
Loving one another and not being judgemental is what helps make us happy and peaceful. Hate and criticism has led to all the evils and wars we have had.
 

Dalia H. (1281)
Friday May 18, 2012, 10:01 pm
Thank You so much my Beloved Friend Franco for such a very interesting article.
This is a subject that really touches me, because for me, all people is Equal and it doesn't matter the Culture, Religion, Language, etc., etc.,
Noted with many Thanks!!!!
GOD Bless you and yours always!
HAVE A VERY BLESSED FRIDAY NIGHT EVERYBODY!
Much Love, Light, Gratitude
B.D♥
 

Dalia H. (1281)
Friday May 18, 2012, 10:02 pm
Thank You so much to my Beloved Dandelion for forwarding me this Awesome Article!
Blessed Be!
B.D♥
 

Barbara W. (342)
Friday May 18, 2012, 10:34 pm
Thank you for the share Dandelion. Looks like an interesting read. Thank you Franco for the post! I will be back. But will say this, no one has the right to judge another! We all, in some manner, fall short.

Love and respect is the answer Michael Jackson's Earth Song and Heal the World speaks to this as well.
 

Rosemary Rannes (629)
Friday May 18, 2012, 10:39 pm
Franco I truly appreciate your sharing this article with us. Thank you Sheryl for letting me know about Franco's first news article.
Love knows no judgements! Jesus shared this message.
Whether you are a religious person or an atheist when it comes to love, real unconditional love, the truth is there is just that pure aspect and nothing else!
 

Ros G. (91)
Friday May 18, 2012, 10:54 pm
Thank you, Franco - I said it all in my email I sent you - just a few minutes before this article arrived. A little spooky - not really - enjoy the LOVE - it's what keeps us compassionate. Peace & Happiness to all.
 

Danica Mirkovic (108)
Friday May 18, 2012, 11:04 pm
Thank you
 

Mickey Tan (17)
Friday May 18, 2012, 11:25 pm
Thank you.
 

Elsie Au (266)
Saturday May 19, 2012, 12:16 am
I am not christian but I do not believe any god want us to hate someone just because they are gay or lesbian.
 

Fran F. (111)
Saturday May 19, 2012, 12:49 am
Franco, thank you for posting this inspiring article!
 

Rob and Jay B. (121)
Saturday May 19, 2012, 1:17 am
Jesus never said a word against gay people. If homosexuality were as big a deal as right wing fundamentalists seem to think (ignoring the things he actually did condemn - religious hypocrites and the rich), he surely would have said something.

One of his first converts was a 'eunuch' which was a word that also applied to homosexuals in Jesus's time and he showed nothing but love for this man.

So sad how so many people pervert the teachings of pure love of all that Jesus taught. One must wonder if any of these people have even read them.

Fortunately most Christians aren't like these who pervert Christ's teachings, but unfortunately only the haters make it into the news.

Thanks Franco!
 

patrica and edw jones (190)
Saturday May 19, 2012, 1:35 am
Whatever has been said and is STILL being said about Gays and Lesbians - it is purely man-created. Our God is pure LOVE - and since we are all a part of HIM - why would he cast out those who are different?
 

Stan B. (124)
Saturday May 19, 2012, 1:41 am
No fair minded person could argue with these sentiments. Thank you Franco and RnJ for the heads up.
 

Arild Warud (166)
Saturday May 19, 2012, 1:52 am
Maybe someone should enlighten the GOP - Peace N Love.
Thanks Franco.
 

Jytte Nhanenge (64)
Saturday May 19, 2012, 2:11 am
Lovely first post Franco, I enjoyed it, congratulations and thank you. I am not a Christian, but was born into the protestant church, and I have high regards for the work of Jesus - like I also have respect for the work of other people who walked on this Earth with the aim to improve our relationships. Searching and engaging with various religions I had to conclude that the leaders of many religious institutions too often are behaving in dominant ways so I have left all religions behind. I now solely focus on my spiritual development. I find that the dualised perception in religion has been used to divide us, while the holistic view of spirituality unites us.

There is no doubt in my mind, as the above Care2 members have expressed, love does not have a gender, a color, any upper age restrictions or race limitation. It is pure and simple. However, and regretfully, some religious leaders have used holy texts to disallow some kinds of love and surprisingly to allow other sexual activities which true love would not include. Lately to our horror we have experienced that some few religious leaders have allowed (cover up) that adult priests abuse young children! On the other hand they disallow that two consenting adults of the same sex are consuming their love. One can only conclude that something is terribly wrong with their perception and therefore also their preaching of love.

I personally have no doubt that Jesus embraces us all with love. When he walked on Earth he respected those who were social outcasts. Unlike the current Patriarchal religions, Jesus did not discriminate against women, poor people, children, and colored people - he would also not have discriminated against homosexual people. Thus, the current attack on those who are "different" from the superior, rich, masculine Master (the elite), is not based on any God given text or absolute truths, they are founded on the unbalanced energies of some few people who find themselves superior to "others" - to the extent that they give themselves the right to harm those "others".
 

Dawid B. (17)
Saturday May 19, 2012, 2:15 am
A lot of rambling to achieve licence!
This is not to be trusted!
 

BMutiny TCorporationsEvil (467)
Saturday May 19, 2012, 2:16 am
Interesting. Arguments to use against the bigots.
"Wood then turned his cryptanalytic skills to finding patterns in first century language, culture, and law. After ten years of dedicated effort, this eventually led to the discovery of the Justices and Jobs in the writings of the Apostle Paul."
A Cryptanalyst has skills to decipher obscure {or, in this case, deliberately obscured} texts.
 

Veronique L. (214)
Saturday May 19, 2012, 2:21 am
Interesting...
 

Past Member (0)
Saturday May 19, 2012, 3:08 am
How sad, that some humans are so far up their own backsides some think a god would put us here- humans are the most evil, perverted all destroying selfish animal on this planet, the only creature doing harm to every thing including the planet it`self - open your eyes, No god would create this world and all it`s beauty then put humans on it to kill and destroy all that is good, some thing evil might !!! but no god would put you here.
No other animal is so evil, no other animal kills for pleasure greed perversions - and no god would say you are forgiven if you commit these atrocities against animals or each other, if you say sorry.
i for one do not care what jesus thinks, is so called teachings are altered throughout history to meet the needs of the times. I have no interest in what others do in private but I DO NOT NEED OMOSEXUALITY PUSHED DOWN MY THROAT- no pun intended or offence just my opinion- NO GOD
 

Pamylle G. (461)
Saturday May 19, 2012, 3:16 am
Fascinating ! Fuel for for those who REALLY follow the teachings of Jesus, which have nothing to do with hate, intolerance, & judgment.
 

Jennifer C. (172)
Saturday May 19, 2012, 3:22 am
Thanks for the article.
 

Jocelyn Koopmann (93)
Saturday May 19, 2012, 3:47 am
Noted. Well done Franco be proud to have posted this article & your good friends that have shared with us. Thank you Dandelion
 

Past Member (0)
Saturday May 19, 2012, 3:48 am
Noted and shared, thanks, Franco :)
 

Harshiita Sharma (138)
Saturday May 19, 2012, 4:01 am
noted and shared!
 

Lisa D'arcangelis (4)
Saturday May 19, 2012, 4:03 am
Thank you so much for this... truly a GREAT source of info. I will be sharing!!!
 

Mari 's (1364)
Saturday May 19, 2012, 4:30 am
Thank you for sending me this story!! I'll share this also on my FB :)
 

Barbara K. (84)
Saturday May 19, 2012, 4:50 am
Thanks for your first posting, Franco, keep up the good work.
 

Just Carole (338)
Saturday May 19, 2012, 4:54 am

Thought-provoking first submission, Franco. Congratulations!

(And my personal thanks to Sheryl for pointing me here.)

 

Dandelion G. (382)
Saturday May 19, 2012, 5:01 am
Prejudice is a learned behaviour as is acceptance of others. I, fortunately, was raised by a Mother that taught me acceptance. Early in my life I was introduced to two women my Mother worked with, they were lovely people, and very kind to my Mother, having found her an apartment she could afford as a single Mother.
Now and again they watched over me while she did an errand or had a date; they were most fun and they enjoyed my little song shows I put on for them. I've never had a more appreciative audiance....lol

When I was 12 years old, my cousin informed me he was gay. As he and I were good friends as well as cousins; I recall how hard it was for him to tell me, as he didn't want to loose my closeness to him, yet he didn't want to hide who he was anymore. Once he told me, I gave a sigh of relief, I said, oh is that all, I thought you were trying to tell me you were moving far away or had some disease and were going to die. What a relief to him as well when I came back with that reply, he hugged me and said, I was so afraid you'd hate me after I told you.

I met many gay and or bi-sexual people as I grew older via my cousin and they were all very kind to me, and I use to enjoy going dancing at the places they all went to as they had the best dancing music at the time. At age 20 I required major surgery and was laid up in a full body caste for 7.5 months.

I couldn't go anywhere so it was then who I saw who my true friends were. My straight friends, or non gay friends, called or visited once, sent a card a couple times then slowly started to drift away, with the exception of my best friend. However my gay friends never abandoned me during that full time, calling me, sending me cards, visiting.

Finally when I had the walking body caste, one man use to pick me up each Friday night to bring me to John and Glenn's house who use to put on a lovely meal for me and invite others over afterwards to visit. I use to look forward to this getting out each week, it was a real lifesaver for me, and I was helped in and out of car, given the seat that was most comfortable, and brought home safely.

When I was completely healed and able to go back out dancing I went to places that my straight friends were at, and although greeted with glad you are back, it appeared they had given no thought to how much time had passed or what I had gone through. On the other hand when I went to the gay club that my other friends were at, as soon as I walked into the door the coat check person couldn't run out fast enough to take my coat and hang it for me.

As I walked towards the back where the dance area was I was greeted warmly by so many. As I stood on the top stair in the doorway, as one walked down into the dance area a spot light was focused on me. Someone on the microphone said, "look everyone, look who is back with us." At that point as I was decending into the room I notice everyone was on their feet applauding my entrance. I had tears in my eyes, I will never ever forget that, and how my gay friends and aquaintances, never abandoned me.

I went on to marry a man as that is my leaning, I always knew that, as I feel those who I made friends with in the gay community always had a pulling towards the ones they chose to love. I don't question why some love one person and others love someone else, that is individual stories that we all need to allow to play out and to allow them their lives as we want our own.

We all come from the same Earth Mother, and we all have the equal right to be here, all that exists came from the Earth, so all is here by the same creation. If we could all just realize we are all brothers and sisters having come from the same source then this world would be a lot nicer for everyone.

In lieu of what Franco has posted I thought I'd place this video on C2, that I was pointed to it by Caitlin, another C2 member. It is a real heart mover of 10 minutes, please watch and share, we all feel pain and happiness, we are all human first.
WITHOUT EQUAL RIGHTS IT COULD HAPPEN TO YOU
 

Franco Di Palma (374)
Saturday May 19, 2012, 5:20 am
It is interesting too that so many parents rely on their gay kids to take care of them in their later years. Heterosexual children grow up, have families and other responsibilities of their own and are often just simply unable to care for their parents. Gay kids because they often don't have children have the time and money to care for them. God works in strange ways. Also to those who say gay is wrong because they cannot procreate, think about this. Does the world with 7 billion people really need MORE people right now? Think of the condition of the earth and humanity due to over population. Perhaps God knew what he was doing? A huge huge thank you to my good friend Dandelion for her help in teaching me how to post this story. I love you Dandelion.....and the rest of you as well. Even those who do not agree with it or expressed doubt.
 

Stella AWAY W. (258)
Saturday May 19, 2012, 5:44 am
Congratulations on your first news, Franco! My stepson is gay but we brought all our children up to respect all forms of life ... and no matter what your sexual orientation, do not 'mix and match' partners - that is promiscuity and not acceptable, point. Sadly religions receive extremely negative publicity due not only to the human perception of how to interpret the Bible but also (again, the 'human finger in the pie'!!) the way religions are used/ abused by humans for their own convenience?
 

Dandelion G. (382)
Saturday May 19, 2012, 6:11 am
You are very welcome Franco, glad I was able to help. The love is sent back upon the Winds....or the spider web in this case.
 

Michela m. (3940)
Saturday May 19, 2012, 6:24 am
Thanks Franco, I Noted & PRINTED this Article for further reading, as yesterday was my Birthday & I was submerged with messages, continuing also today......

About ME: I HAVE NO PREJUDICES AT ALL!!!!!!!!!!!

I'll ACCEPT a GAY SON as an Heterosexual SON.....

THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE AT ALL!!!!!!
 

Joe R. (189)
Saturday May 19, 2012, 6:28 am
A most amazing story indeed! Thanks Franco.
 

Constance F. (433)
Saturday May 19, 2012, 6:41 am
Thank you Franco ! I have been an active supporter of gay rights for years and will continue to be - simply because it's rational and ethical. I am not a Christian or really familar with all it's doctrines, but will say, any religion or God that supposedly would perpetrate hate and judegement against human beings for being in consensual loving relationships with the same sex is BS. Simply, I don't buy it. Human beings interpret and twist religious doctrine to suit their own controlling and hateful agendas all the time. And I just read your comment about overpopulation, Franco. Excellent. The last thing we need is more people breeding - It's 2012 ! Even other species are smart enough to stop breeding when their population over exceeds.
 

Berny p. (23)
Saturday May 19, 2012, 7:47 am

Love CANT BE BAD.....no matter who you are.
thanks for sharing this .
 

JL A. (275)
Saturday May 19, 2012, 8:00 am
It is important for Christians who understand Jesus's commandment to love all the disenfrachised, marginalized people of his time to speak truth to the hate and bigotry so frequently espoused by persons claiming to speak for Christians, churches and the Bible. Thank you for doing so.
 

Joe Shults (37)
Saturday May 19, 2012, 8:04 am
Thanks for sharing. Noted
 

ellen m. (222)
Saturday May 19, 2012, 8:14 am
Kudos on this Franco, although i have to say it wasn't what you would call light reading, for myself anyway...i had to read a few parts over, but going to the comments within the story itself helped..
And from the looks of most of the comments so far, it appears you are preaching to the choir...and that i give thanks for....
As i do for you and all of the other wonderful people here that as you say "do not judge". And that in itself is a light for others to follow.

And just FYI. i have still been tracking our little care2 poll that caused such a brouhaha months back, and responses still trickle in. I would love to see the poll results revised to reflect the true face of the many caring members that have and are still showing their support...and i send a star each and every time with extreme gratitude for that fact.
And know you are just as loved right back my friend...and keep them coming, will you? 1love
 

Lindsay Kemp (1)
Saturday May 19, 2012, 8:40 am
Noted, thank you
 

Jytte Nhanenge (64)
Saturday May 19, 2012, 8:40 am
I just saw this quote, which in this case is quite telling of what we should do with this kind of prejudice and discrimination:

"The mind of a bigot is like the pupil of the eye; the more light you pour upon it, the more it will contract."
Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

So indeed let us open it up and talk about it and keep talking, like Dandelion's post does.
 

Jonjon Hoy (146)
Saturday May 19, 2012, 8:44 am
Bless you Franco for sending this article. People should be allowed to be who they are and not what others want them to be. If people lived to other people's expatations, they wouldn't have a life of our own. Just cause one is Gay doesn't mean they don't have faith. God made everyone special in his/her own way for a reason. Jesus didn't reject the prositute but accepted her as she was and only looked at her heart in acceptance and not reject. People should not judge for they will be judge also as it is written. Judge a person heart and not for who they are.
 

Jonjon Hoy (146)
Saturday May 19, 2012, 8:49 am
The Bible says even love your enemy's as you would love your self.
 

Jonjon Hoy (146)
Saturday May 19, 2012, 8:56 am
Michela M., You are a good example of how everyone should be. Love people for who they are even though we may not like their life style cause they may not like ours either in the long run. Loving one another is what brings world peace. Love from the heart cause it's on the inside that counts.
 

Shirley A. (96)
Saturday May 19, 2012, 9:09 am
Our Constitution demands life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness for ALL. Not a select few, Not a "chosen" group over another and the separation of church and state is VERY clear also. Since homosexuality is a "religious fight," THIS should be a NON-issue.Folks need to get off their self-righteous, bigoted high horses and ignorant soap box when it comes to individual personal freedoms and civil rights, it's a GIVEN by our very own Constitution and Bill of Rights. Not one ounce of discrimination is acceptable for ANY reason. It never has been any of my business who ANYONE chooses to love or have a relationship with and it will stay that way. I certainly don't want anyone or government interferring, making judgement or laws pertaining to my PERSONAL relationships or homelife so why would I even consider doing that to someone else. The creator I believe in didn't put me on this earth to judge others in love ONLY to help and love my fellow beings the very best I can. The bible and all other religious writings have come from the pen of man that allows for infinite interpretations of meaning. Until I have PROOF from the almighty creator of the will for man I will TRY my best to live by the message of "Do unto others as you would have done for you" and Live and Let Live. This world has so many real problems that need our attention and energy to solve before we totally destroy our earth and environment with greed and selfishness. Stay out of each others bedrooms and personal relationships. Guess what, it's none of OUR collective business. It is ALL about the core and soul of a person and has NOTHING to do with sexual preference.
 

Jonjon Hoy (146)
Saturday May 19, 2012, 9:15 am
Could everyone do me a favor? Franco is a Hospice Nurse and is with a patient that is near the end. Everyone please Pray for the patient and for Franco for being a wonderful Angel to those in need. Franco is so Awesome. So lets make a World wide human chain length in love and friendship knowing someone care from around the world. God Bless Everyone.........!
 

Jonjon Hoy (146)
Saturday May 19, 2012, 9:19 am
Dandelion.........! Bravo to you as you are Amazingly a woman that you are and God Bless your mom.
 

pam w. (191)
Saturday May 19, 2012, 9:52 am
Thanks for this logical and humane post. Now...where are the sexual bigots?
 

Jonjon Hoy (146)
Saturday May 19, 2012, 10:17 am
I had a best friend one time who was rejected by his own family except his mother as they were bother treated like outcast cause he was gay even though he was divorced and has kids grown. We became like brothers cause I treated him like he was human and as equal as anyone else. I even cared for his mom who was elderly. When my bestfriend got to sick from a kidney infection that got into his blood stream, I worked in his place so he could support his mom as well as himself and he got paid for the work I did. That was the kind of friend I was up into his last day that he passed on. Yes, he was a church goer and had faith like anyone else. It was love and acceptance that kept him going until God called him home. God loves anyone no matter who they are or what they are. Blessed are those who bring peace to those who are rejected.
 

TomCat S. (286)
Saturday May 19, 2012, 10:29 am
Thanks Franco,

If we are expected to live by Old Testament legalism, then taking slaves from neighboring countries is OK, and I want to own a Canadian. ;-)
 

Teresa W. (691)
Saturday May 19, 2012, 10:34 am
very interesting, thank you!
 

Robert Hardy (67)
Saturday May 19, 2012, 10:52 am
When I read this I get a feeling it is more about what Jesus didn't say about homosexuality that what he did. I think we can just stick with love you neighbor and let it go at that. I don't think we will ever really know what he or God think about anything until we die.
 

Ge M. (217)
Saturday May 19, 2012, 11:01 am
G-d created man in His own image. However, G-d is infinite and man is finite. Perhaps homosexuality is a part of G-d but, most certainly, He created the homosexuals and lesbians as well as the heterosexuals.

For those that quote the Old Testament, a man shall not lie with another man as if he was a woman, it shows a poor understanding of what was meant. It was a commandment against idolatory. There are many such statements throughout the Torah including Thou shalt not seethe a kid in its mother's milk and, again that is a commandment against idolatory.

But then far too many people show a complete and utter lack of understanding of the Old and New Testaments and the Judaism of the time whilst men have deliberately corrupted much that was said to force the uneducated to do what they wanted.
 

Seth E. (61)
Saturday May 19, 2012, 11:18 am
Someone should force the Phelpses and the rest of their WBC nuts to sit down and read this!
 

Dandelion G. (382)
Saturday May 19, 2012, 11:18 am
You cannot currently send a star to Jon because you have done so within the last week.

Thank you for your kind words Jon you are a very wise, loving, and giving person, your words speak what your heart holds.

Indeed prayers for the one who is preparing to enter the Spirit World and those who either work or are the volunteers with Hospice are Earth Angels to me. I know, for the people of Hospice helped my children and I when my husband was preparing to enter the Spirit World in his final stages with cancer.
 

pam w. (191)
Saturday May 19, 2012, 11:48 am
Seth says "Someone should force the Phelpses and the rest of their WBC nuts to sit down and read this! " Seth...they'll just do what they always do....DENY, DENY, DENY, PROSELYTIZE, PROSELYTIZE, PROSELYTIZE and congratulate themselves for their holiness and piety!

These people are no different than the radical Muslims who want to murder homosexuals...they have their god on their side and so, they have carte blanche to do anything they want to do.
 

Jytte Nhanenge (64)
Saturday May 19, 2012, 12:03 pm
Congratulations Franco your first post has hit the front page:
http://www.care2.com/news/
 

Past Member (0)
Saturday May 19, 2012, 12:09 pm
Franco thank you for sharing this article. First of all, no matter if you are gay, lesbian, bi-sexual, or transgender, you still are a "human being" who deserves to be treated like everyone else! I'm absolutely sickened by how our government treats gay people as "second class citizens" in this country!!! There is far too much hatred and discrimination in this world and we need to eliminate that immediately and become a "compassionate" nation who loves all. I'm absolutely proud of being gay and I wouldn't want to be any other way. What is so wrong about loving another person of the same sex, and wanting to spend your life with them? "Let's all learn to LOVE & RESPECT" one another no matter what your orientation, religion, race, etc. is!!
 

Nancy C. (798)
Saturday May 19, 2012, 12:14 pm
Great post and thread. Interpretations of and to the "words" of Jesus have caused mindlessness, havoc and deceit. "Holding on" to ideas that are not based in reality and are distortions of truth have been used for many awful actions in human existence. Tell me how the religious right even tries to "live" the holy life when they encourage hate, war, deception, greed, suffering, neglect, anti antisemitism and bias.
 

Jytte Nhanenge (64)
Saturday May 19, 2012, 12:30 pm
Inspired by Mark's comment I thought I should refer you to Karen Armstrong's Charter of Compassion, which is based on "The Golden Rule". You can read and join her Charter here: http://charterforcompassion.org/

Karen Armstrong is an interesting lady. You can read about her in the Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karen_Armstrong
 

Dotti Lydon (116)
Saturday May 19, 2012, 12:40 pm
Thank you, Franco. Seem to remember that you and I had a slight disagreement some time ago. You were a real gentleman. I have a gay nephew and unfortunately his parents are right wing Evangelicals ~ you know, the kind who think you can pray away the gay. I want to go back and read your article in depth. So again, thank you for posting it.
 

Catherine Turley (193)
Saturday May 19, 2012, 1:25 pm
i would suggest that even people who believe homosexuality is a sin and condemned by god could still vote to allow people to choose for themselves. they would not be condoning gay marriage, prostitution, etc. so much as granting people the absolute free will that god intended them to have.
 

Past Member (0)
Saturday May 19, 2012, 1:40 pm
Thank you Franco for this in depth post. Jesus is love!!
 

Robert O. (12)
Saturday May 19, 2012, 1:43 pm
It's too bad the fervent bible thumpers on the religious right adamantly refuse to see logic, compassion and human decency. I'd love for them to read this enlightening post, but my guess is in their typical arrogance and need to always be right, they'd find some way to dismiss the content of it or just turn a blind intolerant eye toward it altogether. They constantly use the bible to justify their bigoted, intolerant elitist agendas (which in my eyes is blasphemous) all while purposely ignoring the teachings of love, acceptance and compassion for their fellow man. We are all human beings, brothers and sisters, and threads that when woven together create the tapestry of humanity. Such a shame they refuse to realize that. Thanks Franco!
 

Kim O. (399)
Saturday May 19, 2012, 1:52 pm
Outstanding first story, Franco!! Congratulations and thanks for posting it!!
 

Jonjon Hoy (146)
Saturday May 19, 2012, 1:57 pm
LOL, Seth.....! Ha.....Nuts can't read cause their blind folded dude. Ha....!
 

Gene Jacobson (252)
Saturday May 19, 2012, 2:32 pm
Great story. It is wonderful to see this. My feeling is that the Council at Nicea KNEW about this and many other writings lost to us all but deliberately did not include such in their narrow of view of what was good and safe for the people, US, to know. Knowledge is power and always has been. I am more interested in what they excluded than what they included. My instincts tell me the truth is found there not in what they chose. Because they chose works that supported their view and maintained them in power. Which is most unholy. But completely typical of ideologues of any age, including the Republican party as it is presently constituted in our country. I wish they could open their hearts and minds long enough to take in this message. It would save us all a lot of time and money because the day WILL come when orientation is no longer an issue anywhere, that should be sooner rather than later. Should be's don't count, I know it will be later because the opponents of choice in anything will take time to come around. They will eventually. I just wish it were now.
 

Marena Chen (200)
Saturday May 19, 2012, 2:41 pm
Who is this Michael Wood person...??? A close confidant of Jesus...??? To presume that he knows the mind and thoughts of Jesus is preposterous....Some people are for and others are against homosexuality...that's their right...it does not make those who are against it (to use your favorite word) HOMOPHOBES...For the first 61 years of my life (before I became a born-again Christian and actually read the Bible) I felt that this lifestyle was wrong and frankly, ludicrous... and I STILL do...that's my right as an individual... Has nothing to do with religion, intolerance, bigotry (terms you all LOVE to use on others) etc...just my personal conviction...You all talk about love, not judging others (lest ye be judged thyself) etc, yet you judge and condemn those who are not in agreement with you on this issue...just remember, that when you point a finger at others, there are three fingers pointing at YOU...
 

Past Member (0)
Saturday May 19, 2012, 2:43 pm
An interesting read, but then I have to say, whatever Jesus said, whatever religion says, any religion, is IRRELEVANT! Even the President has it wrong when he says that States should have the right to do what they wish. This is about EQUAL PROTECTION UNDER THE UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION! When the President talks about leaving it up to the States he is WRONG, WRONG, WRONG! Injecting Jesus into the discussion, whether pro or con, is IRRELEVANT! This issue is one that begs for the separation of church and State, in my most humble opinion.

Pres. Obama is Wrong on Gay Marriage (It's a Trick Title)

"President Obama has announced that he supports gay marriage. As he said (1): "At a certain point, I've just concluded that for me personally it is important for me to go ahead and affirm that I think same-sex couples should be able to get married. . . . I had hesitated on gay marriage in part because I thought that civil unions would be sufficient. . . . I was sensitive to the fact that for a lot of people, the word marriage was something that invokes very powerful traditions and religious beliefs."

Wow! How about that (as the famous old-time New York Yankees radio broadcaster Mel Allen used to say)? The President has shared with us his personal view on the subject, which he presumably "evolved" to. Well that's nice to know, but as our highest elected official he takes no postion on the law. In fact he has made it clear that as far as the law is concerned, the matter should be left to the states. And indeed about 40 of them have out-lawed the institution, at one level of another. So, how is the President, as the President, not just as some observer whose views have "evolved," wrong on the issue? Let us count the ways.

1. In all 50 states marriage (and its dis-solution) is the subject of civil law. To deny same-sex couples access to that part of the civil law clearly violates Section 1 of the 14th Amendment, which among other things provides that the states may not "deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws." And this from a former professor of Constitutional law. When I was young and Richard Nixon (before EPA and etc.) was an unalloyed enemy, we would say of him and his heavy beard "would you buy a used-car from this man?" Well, at a much more important level, would you take a course in Constitutional law from this President, who a) makes a pronouncement on same-sex marriage without referring to the Constitution and then b) says that the states are free to discriminate against a particular sub-group of the population based on their sexual orientation?

2. He has acknowledged at the same time he is telling us of his personal view that he is sensitive to the views religiously-based opponents of the institution. Golly gee, Mr. President. You know that there are some folks who find white supremacy on the Bible, and the justification for slavery can be found in it too. The objections to allowing access to that part of the civil law by same-sex couples are always based on religious dicta, most often in this country drawn from Biblical texts (Old and New Testaments and now, the Book of Mormon). To do so clearly violates the first provision of the First Amendment to the Constitution: " Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or pro­hibiting the free exercise thereof."

The 14th Amendment, cited above, also applies the provisions of the Bill of Rights to the States. Since the banning of same-sex marriage is always "justified" on religious grounds, it clearly "establishes religion" in the law and thus violates the Constitution. At the same time, under the "free exercise" provision, if a church doesn't want to perform same-sex marriages it doesn't have to. But under the Constitution that does not give organized religion the power to ban same-sex marriage in the civil law, for everyone.

3. "Anti-gay marriage" laws and initiatives are nothing more or less than dog whistles, more polite indicators, for homophobia. Can't be openly against the gays, now can we? But let's deny them their civil rights, because they are gay and we don't like them. It is well past time that there has to be an attack on this issue. Homophobia is a deep-seated expression of hated for folks who are "different," who are "not like us." It is then easy to label gays as second class citizens, and then to make them into second-class citizens by denying them equal rights under the law.

Many people do not know that the first identity group the German Nazis went after, before they went after the Jews, was the gays. The mandatory wearing of the Pink Triangle by homosexuals in Nazi Germany came before the mandatory wearing of the yellow Star of David by Jews. It is fascinating that despite the discrimination, in Nazi Germany there were (presumably closeted) gay members of the Nazi Party. In fact, Ernst Roehm, the commander of the private Right-Wing militia, the "Sturmabteilung," the SA, the Brown Shirts, which did so much to push Hitler to power, was gay. How do we know this? Well, on what was called "The Night of the Long Knives," September 30, 1934, when he was assassinated, not because he was gay but because the Prussian Army wanted him and the SA out of the way as part of their price for supporting Hitler, he was murdered in bed alongside a blond 19 year old male.

4. Finally, politically the most important point to make here is the use to which the Republican Party puts this issue. Its candidates run on it. In the 2004 election, Karl Rove arranged to have anti-gay marriage Constitutional amendments put on 11 state ballots, to draw Religious Right voters to the polls so that they could also vote for George Bush. None other than Howard Fineman of the Huffington Post, a liberal/progressive (but surely no radical leftist) has characterized the contemporary GOP as the "American Faith Party" (2). (Interestingly enough, that post has been taken down from the site.)

In fact, all of the leading planks in the Republican Party platform (for years) on the so-called "social issues" (correctly termed "religious issues") are based in a particular religious doctrine: defining life as beginning at the moment of conception, the practicing of legal discrimination against homosexuals, the banning of the use of stem cells for either research or treatment, for some GOPers, the banning of the use of contraceptives, the prohibition of personal decision-making at the end of life. And Republicans never lose their enthusiasm for telling us that we are a "Christian Nation under God," despite the fact that neither word appears anywhere in the Constitution.

These are the issues that need to be joined politically before it is too late. But where are the President, and indeed all of the leadership of the Democratic Party? Well, I guess that they are still "evolving."
 

Phyllis P. (413)
Saturday May 19, 2012, 2:52 pm
Will read this later. I can't wait.
 

Past Member (0)
Saturday May 19, 2012, 3:21 pm
Making Nationwide Equality a Reality: A New Equal Rights Amendment. Add your signature if you support a New Equal Rights Amendment.
 

Jacob Davis (44)
Saturday May 19, 2012, 3:39 pm
Thank you! EXCELLENT analysis! Wake up Christians! “Love your neighbor as yourself.”
 

monka blank (74)
Saturday May 19, 2012, 4:09 pm
It's not always easy to be gay. I know a gay who was married for about 40 years (!), he . was very unhappy but didn't dare to come out, because the priest told him that he was sick and that this was only temporarely. He tried twice to commit suicide and kept silent.....until his son was an adult - then he came out. He left his wife and he's happy now, with a boyfriend, after all.
Shame on the church, they are not really helping.
 

John B. (215)
Saturday May 19, 2012, 5:10 pm
Read and noted. Thank you Franco. Great first post and as you can see a wonderful bounty of marvelous commets.
 

Cathy Aronson (62)
Saturday May 19, 2012, 5:32 pm
My Sweet Franco, thank you for posting this indepth and informative, if not thought provoking article! When people say "G-D hates gays" it makes me wonder what G-D they pray to that would hate anyone? Rather than looking for our differences, people should look for our sameness...the want and right to lives loving one another and caring for one another. Big hugs to you My Sweet Franco for posting your first article and opening up a good dialog among folks.:)
 

Iona Kentwell (134)
Saturday May 19, 2012, 5:43 pm
This is fascinating reading. Thank you Franco for putting some rational information into this topic that is so often filled with emotion and hurtful comments and actions. What a great resource for Christians. Love your neighbour is such a sensible idea that leads us all toward survival. Whatever your religion or persuasion it can be followed to lead to a better experience of life.
 

Jonjon Hoy (146)
Saturday May 19, 2012, 5:52 pm
Bless you my dear sweet friend Iona and all those who gave me a green star for my comments. Cyber Bear Hugs to each and everyone from around the world. Your sure loved from this end of the world.
 

Carmen S. (611)
Saturday May 19, 2012, 6:07 pm
thanks Franco
 

Gary C. (5)
Saturday May 19, 2012, 7:21 pm
Noted , Thankyou
 

Sheila D. (25)
Saturday May 19, 2012, 7:21 pm
Thanks for clearing this up, Franco. Personally, I figure God knows what he's doing. I've read (somewhere) that about 7% of all mammals on earth are interested in the same sex. How can God be wrong? Well, if you really belive in Him, then he's not. Also, the Old Testament for Christians, Jews, and Muslims, are almost identical. When the New Testament comes to light, it indicates all that has come before is "history", but what Jesus the Christ says is now what God wants us to follow.
Even those who can't quite wrap their heads around this should also try to understand that even the Catholic Church teaches, "love the sinner, hate the sin". So, it ALWAYS come down to LOVE EVERYONE, including yourself.
 

monica r. (41)
Saturday May 19, 2012, 9:22 pm
Interesting. I just debated a Jehovah witness about the Bible and being homosexual, and first it was all "the Bible says" because "you have to go by what it says." But when I pointed out what the original language says, and it's talking about, as Gillian explained here, IDOLATRY not homosexuality, and in the NT the words mean other things too, such as Jesus and Paul using "malakoi" to mean people with a "soft" lifestyle who are too caught up with clothes and hair and makeup and jewelry, NOT gay people.

Then all of a sudden you can't be sure of what the Bible says, because there are all the translations. So I said that my point was the ORIGINAL language it doesn't mean homosexuality, so what translation you read doesn't matter. The words that in many translations are incorrect do not say that in the original language.

Then it was "well I'd have to look into that, but I FEEL that it's so wrong," and what ever happened to "you have to go by what the Bible says"???

Fact is, bigots will hate, but real followers of Christ aren't going to be like that. It's sad some peoples' hearts are closed.

You never know how they can be reached though. I never gave too much thought to gay rights cause it wasn't personal for me. Then a grad school social studies project changed my life. The kids I teach are really homophobic, so I did my project on gay rights. I had NO IDEA how much discrimination and hate there is, and I learned the realities about it, bullying, all this stuff. Since that I try to make a difference. I can't comprehend why G-d would not love LGBT people, since they are who He made them. Each one has value and is here for a reason, and since so many here are on their side, please make sure that the LGBT people in your life know what they mean to you, especially those who may be getting victimized, and could be feeling like there's no point. We need them. Let them know.

Thanks for this article!
 

Edith B. (141)
Saturday May 19, 2012, 9:45 pm
Thank you Franco for the article, and thank you Sheryl for forwarding it. It was enlightening, to say the least. I have had several gay friends and have a couple of gay relatives. I have found them to be loving ,caring individuals, and no different than my straight friends and relatives when it comes to loving their friends and family.
 

Lydia W. (172)
Saturday May 19, 2012, 10:05 pm
Good post !
Thanks so much .
 

Shirley S. (174)
Saturday May 19, 2012, 10:17 pm
"Live & let live" & my quote "LOVE & let LOVE"
 

Past Member (0)
Saturday May 19, 2012, 10:45 pm
Religion is responsible for some really bad stuff.
Watch this through, starts slow but becomes intense:
The Grand Delusion>/a>
 

Past Member (0)
Saturday May 19, 2012, 10:51 pm
Cheers for this
 

ellen m. (222)
Sunday May 20, 2012, 12:30 am

@ John Cause (JC?!!) One of my favorites...saw it in concert, thanks for the memories and sharing it :-)
 

Phillipa W. (199)
Sunday May 20, 2012, 5:20 am
My understanding is that it was a mistranslation, and being so obviously such, I wonder whether or not it truly was accidental.
 

ewoud k. (73)
Sunday May 20, 2012, 5:43 am
Thanks for posting Franco!

Now we'll just have to find a way to make all those (so-called) True Believers read this article and act accordingly....

That's the hard part.
 

Sharon M. (1)
Sunday May 20, 2012, 6:07 am
Excellent information. Thanks to Franco for posting and for those who took the time to add comments.
 

Phil P. (92)
Sunday May 20, 2012, 6:21 am
Unfortunately, this article, scholarly thesis, whatever, will change no minds that are fixed in concrete. Nor does it or should it make one feel better about themselves based on their support of gay, lesbian and/or transgender "people" as humans with human rights and feelings. It irks me that that my fellow humans are always looking for some justification on which to base their feelings, thoughts and actions rather than working it out with their own innate intelligence.
 

TRISH GEIDEL (214)
Sunday May 20, 2012, 8:13 am
I HAV JUS FINISHED READIN ALL THE ABOVE COMMENTS ! PHEW ! QUITE A READ !

THIS IS WHAT I BELIEVE & THINK , ABOUT ALL OF THIS INFO !

GOD & JESUS & THE HOLY SPIRIT ARE # 3 ENTITIES IN ONE :
COMMONLY KNOWN AS THE ** TRINITY ** !

THEY, ARE IN AGREEMENT WITH EA OTHER !
( TRY HAVIN AN ARGUEMENT WITH ONLY YOURSELF !)

GOD CALLED HOMOSEXUALITY (MEN & WOMEN) AN ABOMINATION *,
IN DUETERONOMY, SIMPLE & PLAIN AS THAT !
MEN WITH MEN & WOMEN WITH WOMEN, SEXUALLY !
AN ABOMINATION * ! SOUNDS LIKE A NO NO TO ME !!!

HE ALSO SAID NO, TO ADULTERY, BIGAMY, MURDER, STEALING,
IDOLATRY, A WHOLE HEAP OF STUFF !
HE GAV THE GREEN LIGHT, TO STONE NAUGHTY PEOPLE & TO
INVADE, CONQUER & MAKE EXTINCT, LOTS OF PAGAN TRIBES ;
SO THERE WAS LOTS OF VIOLENCE, ANGER & HATRED, AT
THAT TIME !
THEN JESUS CAME & HE DIDN'T DISAGREE WITH GOD, HE ADDED,
THE LOVE & FORGIVENESS FOR THOSE AROUND U, WHICH MAKES
FOR PEACE & CALM, NOT WAR & UNREST !

NOT ENOUGH FOLKS THINK LIKE THAT TODAY, WHICH IS WHY THE
PLANET IS SUFFERING SOOO MUCH & MANY HUMANS, DO SUCH
DISGUSTINGLY INHUMANE THINGS TO ANIMALS !!!!!

GOD/JESUS/HOLY SPIRIT, ** LOVES ** EVERY LIVING HUMAN & EVERY
LIVING CREATURE : KNOWN AS " HIS CREATION " !

HUMANS, ONLY HUMANS, WERE BLESSED (OR CURSED) WITH ** FREE WILL **
TO MAKE OUR OWN CHOICES & DECISIONS, ABOUT WHERE WE GO,
WHAT WE DO, WHO WE LOVE, WHAT CAREER WE ENJOY, & SO FORTH !

HUMANS HAV ALSO BEEN GIVEN THE KNOWLEDGE & AWARENESS,
TO KNOW WHAT'S RIGHT FROM WRONG !
GOOD, OR BAD MORALS : GOOD, OR BAD MANNERS : GOOD, OR BAD ETHICS !
COMMANDMENTS, RULES, LAWS. !
WHATEVA U WANT TO CALL IT !

A LOT OF IT IS COMMON SENSE ! THINKING B4 ACTING !

BEING GAY, OR AN ALCOHOLIC, OR A RAPIST, OR A SERIAL KILLER,
OR A BURGLER, OR A BIGAMIST, OR A DRUG ADDICT & A LOT MORE,
THAT WOULD TAKE TOO MUCH ROOM TO MENTION, THESE ARE ALL
FREE WILL ACTIONS, THAT SOCIETY IS MOSTLY ANTI ; BUT,
THAT GOD/JESUS/HOLY SPIRIT, ALLOW B/C OFTHE FREE WILL THING,!

NOTE ; I SAID ALLOW, WHICH DOES NOT MEAN CONDONE !

IT IS AS THE CATHOLICS (& OTHERS) SAY ; THEY LOVE THE SINNER (PERSON)
BUT, THEY HATE THE SIN (ACTION-CHOICE-DECISION) !

I BECAME A BORN AGAIN CHRISTIAN, IN 1990, & THIS IS HOW I UNDERSTAND,
WHAT GOD'S WORD (JESUS) IS TELLING ME !
NO SIN IS WORSE, OR HIGHER, THAN ANY OTHER !

EVERY SIN, EVEN TELLING LIES, OR RIDICULING ANOTHER PERSON,
EVN THESE SO-CALLED ** LITTLE/SMALL/WHITE ** LIES, ETC., THEY
ALL MAKE OUR CREATOR VERY SAD & DISAPPOINTED IN US !

YES, WE ALL SHOULD B LOVING EVERYONE AS IF THEY ARE OUR
NEIGHBOUR & WE SHOULD ALL B ABOUT FORGIVING OTHERS TOO !!!

ONLY GOD HAS THE RIGHT TO JUDGE US & HE WILL !

YES, I HAD A GAY BROTHER & HE WAS A LOVELY PERSON
& I MISS HIM TERRIBLY & I LOVED HIM & PRAYED FOR HIM,
TIL THE DAY HE DIED, # 8 YRS AGO, LAST MAR !

I DO THINK THERE IS WAAAY TOOO MUCH FUSS & FOCUS, GOING
ON AROUND THE PLACE THESE DAYS ABOUT BEING, OR NOT BEING GAY !

IT IS THE FREE WILL CHOICE OF EA PERSON & NO-ONE HAS THE RIGHT,
TO TELL ANYONE ELSE THAT THEY ARE WRONG TO DO SO !

MAKE UR OWN FREE WILL CHOICES, ABOUT YOURSELF & HOW U WANT
TO LIVE & LEAVE OTHER FOLKS ALONE !

STOP WITH THE ANGER, HATE & MALICE ; IT'S NOT GOOD FOR UR HEART !

WHAT OTHER PEOPLE CHOOSE TO DO, IS NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS,
UNLESS IT IS AFFECTING U SOMEHOW !

A FINAL NOTE ; REMEMBER, THAT THERE'S A JUDGEMENT DAY COMING
& THEN U WILL HAV TO TRY EXPLAINING YOURSELF, TO GOD/JESUS/H.S.

U CAN HAV SECRETS FROM OTHER HUMANS, BUT, GOD SEES ALL ;
NOTHING ESCAPES HIS NOTICE !




 

Allan Yorkowitz (453)
Sunday May 20, 2012, 10:01 am
G-d in the old testament was a divine force of pure love and acceptance . Outside the Ten Commandments, G-d did not judge. It was the creation of the Catholic Church who literally created hell and damnation to keep the poor and ignorant in line.
Jews ask for forgiveness for sins unrelated to their sexual orientation during the High Holy Days. The Church damns people for what they interpret as "unholy" acts.
 

Past Member (0)
Sunday May 20, 2012, 10:20 am
Trish, first you say, ‘GOD CALLED HOMOSEXUALITY (MEN & WOMEN) AN ABOMINATION ‘, and then, you go on to equate them with rapists, serial killers, burglars and bigamists.

It’s you Trish that is the ABOMINATION! Both you AND the god you hide behind to spew your venom. You actually think you can clean up your foul characterizations by following up with, ‘ WHAT OTHER PEOPLE CHOOSE TO DO, IS NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS...’? It sure looks to me that you’ve MADE IT YOUR BUSINESS!
 

monka blank (74)
Sunday May 20, 2012, 11:21 am
The Catholic church plays a bad role in this. About 50 years ago they celebrated the mass in Latin, so that common people wouldn't comprehend, and it was prohibited to read the Bible.....sure Jesus wouldn't have wanted that. Nowadays some Catholic priests are guilty of molesting young altar boys. Sure Jesus didn't want that, either.
Unfortunately some people confuse that with being gay. That has nothing to do with it. Support gays - not child abusers. I hope that gays (and lesbiens) may adopt if they wish; I'm sure they'll be fine parents, just as straights.
 

Dandelion G. (382)
Sunday May 20, 2012, 12:00 pm
Trish Topcat No Cruel Emails Pls. Well I can see by the name alone you use that you must come off on a real loving way to many people.....Not. I think you best do a better job understanding your God, Jesus, and Holy Spirit, for to draw so much negative to you by needing to place it in your name, you are missing the boat someplace.

Per your own comment....."WHAT OTHER PEOPLE CHOOSE TO DO, IS NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS,
UNLESS IT IS AFFECTING U SOMEHOW !"

I suggest you don't marry a woman or go to any gay weddings. That way it won't affect you and you can do as you said, "mind you own business as it is none of your business."

 

Past Member (0)
Sunday May 20, 2012, 12:58 pm
Trish TOPCAT NO CRUEL MAIL PLS, obviously you are completely blind to the CRUELTY in your comment. But that's ok, just don't send you cruel mail?? You self righteous, sanctimonious BuyBull thumping scum are the real problem in a civilized society.
 

Kenneth L. (314)
Sunday May 20, 2012, 1:55 pm
Most (not all) religions are dogmatic, that is they TELL others what to think, what is 'true', etc. and most use the term 'GOD' to back up their dogma, usually with a book.
In the end, it's up to each person to decide for themselves what is true, what is right, what is wrong, what is good, what is bad, etc.
No one can decide for another what to think about anything. Not good and it doesn't work.
 

Petra M. (253)
Sunday May 20, 2012, 2:01 pm
Thank you Franco !
 

Roger M. (0)
Sunday May 20, 2012, 2:07 pm
Having researched the subject at some length, I'd be amazed to learn that Jesus Christ ever existed, so what he did or didn't "say" makes not a jot of difference to me either way.

What does affect the modern world is the attitude of some in the church towards homosexuality, most notably in Africa, where homophobia can lead to extreme violence.
 

Fred Krohn (34)
Sunday May 20, 2012, 7:08 pm
Anyone who can find the recent retranslations of the older Bible versions can figure this out for themselves; even the new ones feature the ten commandments of which the first four are 'Christian worship directives' (thus irrelevant to those of 'allied' faiths who connect with their own deities) and the last six are good secular law. Bans on murder, theft, nonconsensual sex, malicious gossip and lies, mate-stealing, and nonproductive covetousness, along with encouragement towards neighbourliness and filial piety, seem to me quite appropriate. For those who get hung up on 'bans' on common foods like pork or shellfish, the restrictions were due to poor quality of food processing and handling (proper cooking averts most or all problems with these foods). All the lousy hate speech concerning alternative sexual preferences (between consenting adults) was inserted by prudish and perverted 'edittors' and corrupt translators through millennia of hand-copying and recent machine copying of this effort to record the last few millennia of human history. Restore the Bible to its complete (all 12 gospels and the rest of the Apocrypha included!) and properly translated but uneditted condition!
 

Franco Di Palma (374)
Sunday May 20, 2012, 8:55 pm
I have to tell you all that I am absolutely overwhelmed by the outpouring of love, caring, and compassion that you all exhibited in your messages. It gives me hope that people can change. The mind is like a vault. Once that door slams shut absolutely no light can enter. Usually a person shuts down out of fear. Change is a very difficult thing to face particularly when your religious beliefs have been based on what is changing under your very feet. I want those who expressed negative opinions (and there are only a couple) to know that there is nothing to be afraid of. Love will win out in the end always and as far as I am concerned God is love. We are all safe in the end. We are all one and we must look at each other as just one more part of the whole. Care2 and it's people are an excellent example and I always believed that the only way to teach is by example. Now lets all go have a glass of wine or herbal tea and relax. Thank you all a million times over for making my first story posted such a success......
 

Crystal C. (7)
Sunday May 20, 2012, 9:33 pm
Wow, thanks for this. It was extremely informative. It opened my eyes a little bit more.
 

Franco Di Palma (374)
Sunday May 20, 2012, 9:39 pm
@Trish Topcat

Dear Trish,,

I am Franco, the person who posted the article that you responded to. No, this is not cruel message and in no way a put down of your response. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I hope you don't mind me making a few comments.

You are correct when you say that God spoke of homosexuality. It was however put in a completely different group than the other sins you mentioned. In fact it was considered at the time a taboo not a sin. When Jesus walked the earth and was asked what laws should be followed to get to heaven he specifically listed the group that did not include homosexuality.

The church however got it wrong (not Jesus, the Holy Spirit or God) but the church and began including it. Many people over the years became to accept it as word when in fact it was not. It was part of something that Jesus did not even address and the Ancient Jewish Law did not add it to a list of sins which included the ten commandments.

Today people are dying all over the world because people believe this to be such a terrible life style. Intelligent people like yourself have accepted something that is not so as the truth. Our children are paying the price for our mistakes. Our children are being taught that they are sick, that they are less than, that they don't measure up and will not go to heaven because of who they are. Bullys or beating and killing other kids over what religion is teaching them is right. Young kids who try to change who they are and find they cannot make that change are killing themselves. Killing themselves do you understand that? You have six children. You I am sure would be devastated if one of them committed suicide over something someone told them which made them feel they were not worthy of life. Can you imagine? I beg people not to contribute to this. No human being makes a decision to be this way. That is something you have to come to understand. You are an animal lover aren't you? Did you know that about seven percent of animals are homosexual? Do you think for a moment they chose that?

Can you imagine if all red headed kids were told they were worthless and damned to hell? Would you make your child dye his hair and pretend he was something he was not? So much senseless, needless abuse of others over nothing. What kind of God would want that? I want my God to be recognized as someting special. You are a mother and as a good mother you want only the best for your children. God has far more love for his children than we could ever understand or even have for our own. We need to learn from him and try to be as loving, forgiving and caring as he. That is the message of Jesus. He came to show us that our Father is all forgiving and pure love.

Change is frightening. Especially change that you have built a lifetime of belief on. But change can be good. Slowly the world is becoming more accepting. It is easier today for Gay and Lesbian and Bi Gender kids then it was thirty years ago but not by much. We need to all work together to make it perfect. Then and only then will God be pleased. When we are one. The mind is like a steal vault. The door shuts, everything inside stays there and no light gets in. Only the owner of that vault can allow in the light and cast out that which is not light......the darkness.

I read your profile. You are a good person. I am sorry you have been ill. Now is the time to change the way you think. I am asking you to please reconsider and not contribute in any way to the death of more children around the world. Your words are like razors. They cut and make people bleed. You don't strike me as the kind of person that wants that. Instead of using your words to wound use them to heal.

Please feel free to write to me any time. I would love to discuss this with you if you care to open the door to that vault just a little bit. May you and your family be blessed.....always....

Your Care2 friend,

Franco


Original Message:
-----------------
Hi Franco,

Trish TOPCAT NO CRUEL MAIL PLS. left a comment on the following article:


What Jesus Really Said About Homosexuality
To the surprise of many this informative story tells us how Jesus really felt about homosexuality. This is a real eye opener. Not long but very deep, and a real mind changer. Amazing. This man was all about LOVE. And Love I wish to all of you. Enjoy!


Comment:


I HAV JUS FINISHED READIN ALL THE ABOVE COMMENTS ! PHEW ! QUITE A READ ! THIS IS WHAT I BELIEVE & THINK , ABOUT ALL OF THIS INFO ! GOD & JESUS & THE HOLY SPIRIT ARE # 3 ENTITIES IN ONE : COMMONLY KNOWN AS THE ** TRINITY ** ! THEY, ARE IN AGREEMENT WITH EA OTHER ! ( TRY HAVIN AN ARGUEMENT WITH ONLY YOURSELF !) GOD CALLED HOMOSEXUALITY (MEN & WOMEN) AN ABOMINATION *, IN DUETERONOMY, SIMPLE & PLAIN AS THAT ! MEN WITH MEN & WOMEN WITH WOMEN, SEXUALLY ! AN ABOMINATION * ! SOUNDS LIKE A NO NO TO ME !!! HE ALSO SAID NO, TO ADULTERY, BIGAMY, MURDER, STEALING, IDOLATRY, A WHOLE HEAP OF STUFF ! HE GAV THE GREEN LIGHT, TO STONE NAUGHTY PEOPLE & TO INVADE, CONQUER & MAKE EXTINCT, LOTS OF PAGAN TRIBES ; SO THERE WAS LOTS OF VIOLENCE, ANGER & HATRED, AT THAT TIME ! THEN JESUS CAME & HE DIDN'T DISAGREE WITH GOD, HE ADDED, THE LOVE & FORGIVENESS FOR THOSE AROUND U, WHICH MAKES FOR PEACE & CALM, NOT WAR & UNREST ! NOT ENOUGH FOLKS THINK LIKE THAT TODAY, WHICH IS WHY THE PLANET IS SUFFERING SOOO MUCH & MANY HUMANS, DO SUCH DISGUSTINGLY INHUMANE THINGS TO ANIMALS !!!!! GOD/JESUS/HOLY SPIRIT, ** LOVES ** EVERY LIVING HUMAN & EVERY LIVING CREATURE : KNOWN AS " HIS CREATION " ! HUMANS, ONLY HUMANS, WERE BLESSED (OR CURSED) WITH ** FREE WILL ** TO MAKE OUR OWN CHOICES & DECISIONS, ABOUT WHERE WE GO, WHAT WE DO, WHO WE LOVE, WHAT CAREER WE ENJOY, & SO FORTH ! HUMANS HAV ALSO BEEN GIVEN THE KNOWLEDGE & AWARENESS, TO KNOW WHAT'S RIGHT FROM WRONG ! GOOD, OR BAD MORALS : GOOD, OR BAD MANNERS : GOOD, OR BAD ETHICS ! COMMANDMENTS, RULES, LAWS. ! WHATEVA U WANT TO CALL IT ! A LOT OF IT IS COMMON SENSE ! THINKING B4 ACTING ! BEING GAY, OR AN ALCOHOLIC, OR A RAPIST, OR A SERIAL KILLER, OR A BURGLER, OR A BIGAMIST, OR A DRUG ADDICT & A LOT MORE, THAT WOULD TAKE TOO MUCH ROOM TO MENTION, THESE ARE ALL FREE WILL ACTIONS, THAT SOCIETY IS MOSTLY ANTI ; BUT, THAT GOD/JESUS/HOLY SPIRIT, ALLOW B/C OFTHE FREE WILL THING,! NOTE ; I SAID ALLOW, WHICH DOES NOT MEAN CONDONE ! IT IS AS THE CATHOLICS (& OTHERS) SAY ; THEY LOVE THE SINNER (PERSON) BUT, THEY HATE THE SIN (ACTION-CHOICE-DECISION) ! I BECAME A BORN AGAIN CHRISTIAN, IN 1990, & THIS IS HOW I UNDERSTAND, WHAT GOD'S WORD (JESUS) IS TELLING ME ! NO SIN IS WORSE, OR HIGHER, THAN ANY OTHER ! EVERY SIN, EVEN TELLING LIES, OR RIDICULING ANOTHER PERSON, EVN THESE SO-CALLED ** LITTLE/SMALL/WHITE ** LIES, ETC., THEY ALL MAKE OUR CREATOR VERY SAD & DISAPPOINTED IN US ! YES, WE ALL SHOULD B LOVING EVERYONE AS IF THEY ARE OUR NEIGHBOUR & WE SHOULD ALL B ABOUT FORGIVING OTHERS TOO !!! ONLY GOD HAS THE RIGHT TO JUDGE US & HE WILL ! YES, I HAD A GAY BROTHER & HE WAS A LOVELY PERSON & I MISS HIM TERRIBLY & I LOVED HIM & PRAYED FOR HIM, TIL THE DAY HE DIED, # 8 YRS AGO, LAST MAR ! I DO THINK THERE IS WAAAY TOOO MUCH FUSS & FOCUS, GOING ON AROUND THE PLACE THESE DAYS ABOUT BEING, OR NOT BEING GAY ! IT IS THE FREE WILL CHOICE OF EA PERSON & NO-ONE HAS THE RIGHT, TO TELL ANYONE ELSE THAT THEY ARE WRONG TO DO SO ! MAKE UR OWN FREE WILL CHOICES, ABOUT YOURSELF & HOW U WANT TO LIVE & LEAVE OTHER FOLKS ALONE ! STOP WITH THE ANGER, HATE & MALICE ; IT'S NOT GOOD FOR UR HEART ! WHAT OTHER PEOPLE CHOOSE TO DO, IS NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS, UNLESS IT IS AFFECTING U SOMEHOW ! A FINAL NOTE ; REMEMBER, THAT THERE'S A JUDGEMENT DAY COMING & THEN U WILL HAV TO TRY EXPLAINING YOURSELF, TO GOD/JESUS/H.S. U CAN HAV SECRETS FROM OTHER HUMANS, BUT, GOD SEES ALL ; NOTHING ESCAPES HIS NOTICE !



If you wish to respond to the comment your options are:
- post your own comment under the news item.
- contact Trish TOPCAT directly by replying to this message.

Thank you for contributing to the Care2 News Network!
 

Rose NoFWDSPLZ (273)
Sunday May 20, 2012, 10:07 pm
What a great post Ty Franco
 

Quanta Kiran (65)
Monday May 21, 2012, 3:09 am
Thanks.
 

Cate S. (7)
Monday May 21, 2012, 3:32 am
Thank you & bless you Franco. God doesn't make mistakes.

God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God and God in him. (1 John 16)
 

N B. (0)
Monday May 21, 2012, 3:33 am
the article and comments were interesting.
 

Jennifer G. (16)
Monday May 21, 2012, 7:26 am
Amazingly great post, Franco! Definitely noted, and I'll be forwarding this to quite a few people.
Thank you for showing that Christian and gay can coexist! :)
 

Myron Scott (70)
Monday May 21, 2012, 8:17 am
Thank, you, Franco. This distinction between "justice"-based commandments and ritualistic "jobs" is interesting and makes sense to me. It's like the distinction between morals (which are based on principles of broad application) and mores (which are socially generated rules of a given culture or sub-culture and can very widely over time and space). My idea of Jesus is that he was all about love and reconciliation and (sometimes emphatically) not about blindly obeying this or that ritual or cultural standard. I think following Jesus has to do with seeing what love demands in each and every individual situation; and I do not see how prejudging anyone is consistent with that.
 

Lydia W. (172)
Monday May 21, 2012, 8:28 am
Often I hear the Bible says no to homosexuality , It also says no to... Tattoo's , piercings , sexual immorality .
Quite a bit about lust as well ,
So with that said a heck of a lot of us are damned huh '
If all of these are sins , Should that not be left to God ?
In the meantime equal rights !
 

Lisa Kelly (0)
Monday May 21, 2012, 8:55 am
If we are christians then we talk to Jesus right? At least I do and he talks back to me and he tells me that he really doesn't have time to worry about this matter. It's totally accepted and he doesn't see us as homosexuals or anything. He sees us as one and sees us all the same. He's right. We do have more important things to worry about. So, if you are gay then be gay and be proud and don't worry about a thing because we are all one. Let's feed the hungry instead of getting into one's business and I say this with love. We spend to much energy worrying debating about this. Some call it a political issue. What's so political about it? Love is love and that's how I see it. We sleep with our dogs and it's okay. I have peace with it all.
 

Lisa Kelly (0)
Monday May 21, 2012, 8:56 am
By the way. It's 2012 and he sets the trends.
 

Nancy M. (201)
Monday May 21, 2012, 9:14 am
I am sorry that I am stopping by late. But thanks for the great article Franco.
 

BMutiny TCorporationsEvil (467)
Monday May 21, 2012, 10:02 am
Zhi W. Sunday May 20, 2012, 10:09 pm
This is a STINKING, DISGUSTING AD.
When you see such STINKING, DISGUSTING ADS, please click on "flag as inappropriate".
You will then get this message from Care2:
"Your report has been submitted to Customer Service. Thank you."
Please be a good Care2 citizen -- it only takes a moment!
Often these STINKING, DISGUSTING ADS are for PORN sites; or for sleazy, potentially dangerous "dating" sites that MAY INVOLVE HUMAN TRAFFICKING. They may have VIRUSES that can really mess up your computer! If it says, as this one does, "amazing surprise" -- I WOULDN'T GO THERE!!!!! The "surprise" might not be a good one!!!
PLEASE HELP KEEP CARE2 THREADS FREE OF THIS KIND OF INTERFERENCE. WE ALL CAN HELP. THANK YOU.
 

Jazz P. (11)
Monday May 21, 2012, 10:15 am
good post. thanks for telling me about it. i agree.
 

BMutiny TCorporationsEvil (467)
Monday May 21, 2012, 10:48 am
I think it is pretty probable, that Jesus {Greek form of the Hebrew name Joshua} was a person who actually existed, a striking personality and Great Teacher {Rabbi} who would be remembered long after his cruel death at the hands of the Roman State {perhaps for being perceived by them as a Political Agitator}. That his teachings would eventually be written down after his death and carried around the Mediterranean and North Africa.

{Christ is also from Greek, means "Anointed One", as a Ruler is: perhaps he DID challenge the subservient non-Jewish Roman Puppet Government of Palestine.}
Jesus, from the written record, started out as a Jew in every respect {people like to forget that!}, and they tended to exclude outsiders. In Mark 7::25-30, a widow who is Greek -- NOT Jewish! -- asks, and receives, healing for her daughter. This signals that Jesus' message, and healing, was NOT limited to his "own" people! Kindof radical, for the time! The Early Church had a big discussion, whether you had to convert to be a Jew, before you could be a Christian -- they decided against that {or the Church would never have grown the way it did!}. {Circumcision as an adult -- Ouch! Good thing they decided converts wouldn't have to go thru that.....} {Galatians 5:6, among other places.}

Both of these, found in the Bible, re-inforce the idea that Jesus was way beyond the rituals of the Jewish tribe, into a more universal code of ethics. Also in Mark 7:1-23 Jesus specifically repudiates Mosaic dietary {Kosher} and ritual washing laws: "For there is nothing from without a man {i.e., non-Kosher food}, that entering into him can defile him; but those things that come out of him, those are they that defile the man." "For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts....." Pretty clear, that!
 

BMutiny TCorporationsEvil (467)
Monday May 21, 2012, 11:27 am
For those who say "there is no evidence Jesus ever existed"; well, SOMEBODY said all those wise sayings and stories! I don't care if their name was Jesus or Joshua or John Doe {or Jane Doe!}: SOMEbody said all sorts of good, wise things that were worth repeating!
It seems difficult to believe that people would just make up all the stories about him wandering about, also. Who at that time would sit down and create a work of fiction, essentially a novel, like that? and why?

As far as his life not being "confirmed" by Roman and contemporary records: few or no records were kept of "common people"; there were faith-healers, and prophets, and political agitators, and even "pretenders to the throne", by the score. The Romans would've despised them all. Struck them down like insects, if they got to be too much of a "nuisance", without a second thought.
Apparently to those close to him, and who actually encountered him, there was something "different" and "special" about Joshua/Jesus that made him stand out; something "sophisticated" Romans who looked down on the "natives", completely missed. {Except for that Roman Centurion, Matthew 8:5-10.}

The story of Jesus, a striking personality of his time, and his sayings being preserved among the "common people", got mixed up with imported Mystery Religions from the East. {And the Emperor Constantine's cult of Sol Invictus, the Sun God.} This, to my mind, corrupted the written record as it has come down to us. Scholars are still trying to sort out the "real" Jesus from the cult of immortality that comes from the Eastern Mystery Religions. This "cult" of course defies all Science; and it is this aspect of J.C. that could not possibly have happened.
Well, some people here believe differently.
If people want to say that these stories of actual physical resurrection of the body {ours! yours and mine!}, and so on, are "metaphors" for the Spirit, that is ok with me.....
 

BMutiny TCorporationsEvil (467)
Monday May 21, 2012, 11:51 am
I am having trouble posting this -- I hope it doesn't post several times!

Franco: I wish I could give you a Million Green Stars for your reasoned, compassionate answer to Trish Topcat.
It is a MODEL for Care2 behavior -- I hope those who resort to name-calling of those they disagree with, take a lesson from that! Those on ALL side of the political/religious spectrum!

"Now is the time to change the way you think. I am asking you to please reconsider and not contribute in any way to the death of more children around the world. Your words are like razors. They cut and make people bleed. You don't strike me as the kind of person that wants that. Instead of using your words to wound use them to heal. "

This is MUCH more likely to change hearts and minds, than being as offensive as possible!
The philosophy and practice of Non-violence, always RESPECTS the personhood of the other person, and does not "classify" them as "enemies".
We need a whole lot MORE of this on Care2!!!!!!!!!!!
Franco, wow, with your FIRST NEWS POSTING you have DONE SO MUCH GOOD HERE......!!!!!!!!
 

Dandelion G. (382)
Monday May 21, 2012, 12:05 pm
I can only hope that Trish will come back and read your words Franco. You make the world a better place and that would be inclusive of any faith or those who do not choose to practice a religion at all, but Walk with a Good Heart.
 

Waltraud U. (81)
Monday May 21, 2012, 12:08 pm
Everybody deserves his own lifestyle.
Good luck
ty
 

Past Member (0)
Monday May 21, 2012, 1:21 pm
Was Jesus Gay? Probably

Not that there's anything wrong with that. ~ George Costanza
 

Nancy M. (201)
Monday May 21, 2012, 1:30 pm
Yeah, good old George.
 

Gina Caracci (231)
Monday May 21, 2012, 3:40 pm
THANK YOU FRANCO for this wonderful article and for hopefully starting a chain reaction of love and acceptance. :) A MILLION green stars to you. I tried to send one but already did earlier this week :)

My exs daughter came out and was told by a nun in her school that she was going to hell. This was two years ago. her younger sister asked me if that was true. I said NO, that is NOT true, that God loves EVERYONE, gay or not. I used to be catholic and ran as fast as i could when I was able to make my own decisions on God and religion. I realized just earlierTODAY, that NOT ONCE EVER, in all the years of CCD classes and church did ANYONE EVER mention that the way to heaven was to confess your sins, believe that Jesus existed, died for our sins and was raised from the dead. THAT IS SAD. It took 40 years for me to learn that and thats just an example of how the CHURCH is twisted and judgemental and ONLY TEACHES ITS OWN AGENDA AND NOT THE TRUTH FROM THE BIBLE..
If God forgives and still loves someone who murders, WHY in the world wouldnt he love someone who simply LOVES another? Thats WHAT Jesus' message was. thx
 

Nyack Clancy (436)
Monday May 21, 2012, 3:50 pm
noted- thank you
 

Penny C. (79)
Monday May 21, 2012, 4:43 pm
Thanks Franco.
 

Dusty Debandi (113)
Monday May 21, 2012, 6:04 pm
@ Zhi W. = Forgive me for sending you this message where everyone can see this but I went to send you a private message and according to care2, you do not exist so here it is.

Posting your advertisements on news stories in innappropriate. This is not the place to be advertising and you are creating hard feelings that will result in you not making money. If you wish to advertise...create a story about your products or send your information out in an e-mail but this is just not the place. I will flag as innappropriate where ever I see your add and have been doing so. This is just wrong in so many ways.
 

Lynn C. (94)
Monday May 21, 2012, 6:34 pm
Thank you for sharing this Franco
 

Dusty Debandi (113)
Monday May 21, 2012, 6:47 pm
I am Dusty and I am transgender/Gay. I do not share this to advertise but so that you may know where I am coming from. Life has been quit difficult for me. I am 55yrs. old and have lived a life of hell but not due to who and what I am but due to the ignorance of Society. No one knows my story but two people here on care2 but I guess now they will. I was born with the XY chromozone and with the physical features of both sexes. In the 50's not much was know about all of this and basically Medical professionals were required only to "Fix" the person so that "Normal" functioning of the body could happen such as the disposal of waste, etc. Other than that it was up to the parents to choose which sex was more prominant and with their money and insurance - perform the surgery....BUT, they still insisted that no surgery was performed until the child reached maturity to see which sex was more dominant. Well, my parents were addicts and when I was 11yrs. old my sibblings and I (threw a chain of events that took place) were took out of the home and placed in foster care. My life was a living nightmare as I never fit in anywhere. I felt like a boy/man, talked like them, acted like them, had primarily "MENS" jobs. I loved women so not knowing a whole lot about sexuality at that time was called queer, faggot, gay & lesbian. I didn't even know what that meant at that time but when I was told I said, "Okay, so that's what I am". I was over many, many years beaten with bats, hit in the head with the clawhammer part of the hammer, beaten up, stuffed in locker at school, molestated and abused. The teachers argued which gym class I should go in as they didn't know either. I didn't know why! All I knew is that I felt like a boy. My mind, my thoughts, my actions, my life, my body didn't line up with what I felt inside. I was finally adopted when I was 15yrs. old because a family wanted to have a daughter as they had several boys and they had money and thought that they could give me a better life by using their money to make me one. NO ONE ever asked me what I wanted and at that age I am not sure that I even understood. Times were different then and kids were not as sexually promiscuous and knowledgable. As I grew older my discust for my female body grew and grew. I hated myself! I started self-mutilation, and tried suicide five times with the last two times being a medical miracle that I survived. I was given every phychiatric lable known to man and put into nut houses. I had heard about this so-called "LOVING GOD" but if he did exist....He didn't love me as why would HE allow people to mistreat me for something I had no control over and did not even understand. I hear that God don't make mistakes but apparently he had made one when he made me and I started hating God. In fact, I hated everyone! I was kicked out of two Churches and even thrown on the floor (By the Pastor & deacons) and held down against my will to have the demons of Homosexuality cast out of me. I ended up being shot and then stabbed as well. All of this discust from Society as well as my discust for myself led me to a life of addiction, then crime and then to prison five times. All because Society could not accept me as I was and then made me hate myself for something I could not change. I tried to deny everything that I was and I became celibet for nearly 15yrs. but I was lonely and life held no joy or happiness for me. I was told that I was going to Hell but I couldn't imagine that hell would be any worse than what I was living in. My parents were "Christians" and even tho they knew what my medical situation was....I didn't have the heart to tell them that I wanted a sex change and am not really sure if I even knew at that time that it was possible. Back in 1976 they ran an article about a set of twin girls named the Devitto Twins about a female to male sex change and I saw that and said..."That's me, that's me" I got to have that so that I can have a life. Well the sex change operation was not perfected yet and once again, I didn't want to disrespect my family by telling them that they had made a mistake and to make me a boy. I decided that I would wait until I got older, moved out of state and they die and then I would take the inheritance money and have a sex change. Well I got older, I moved out of state and my father has since passed away and my mother is in a nursing home and the cousins tricked my mom into signing over everything to them. (See my story on care2 called, "Free My Mother From Nursing Home") Well now I have no money and I am stuck in this body that I cannot stand, I am lonely and I have no friends because I am still so screwed up that I can't get along with anyone. I can't find my place...at 55yrs old. I cannot imagine living another 40yrs. like this and want to die. I am a failure at suicide so I guess I am stuck. I WANT OUT OF THIS BODY AND I WANT TO BE ABLE TO LOVE SOMEONE AND PUT MY ARMS AROUND SOMEONE. I LIVE IN FEAR OF PEOPLE FINDING OUT WHO I AM AS I AM MUCH TOO OLD TO BE BEATEN TODAY. WHY should I have to be? I am hurting no one but everyone keeps hurting me. What did I do so wrong? I am a loving, kind, honest, faithful human being that would give the shirt off of my back to help....anyone. I have been treated worse by those that claim to love God and be a Christian. I have a hard time empathizing with what Jesus suppossedly went thru and I have been beaten, whipped, bruised, cut, shot, abused only it was for being me. I don't have the power to die for the remission of anyone's sin. At least his death suppossedly meant something. People just want to hurt me and kill me because I am different. You say I have a choice. Tell me, when did you choose then to be straight? Don't tell me about God's love and then beat me down.
 

Dusty Debandi (113)
Monday May 21, 2012, 6:52 pm
P.S. I harbor no ill feelings for how Trish (top cat) believes. I respect her because she is willing to take a stand for what she believes but sometimes it is better to offer love than to offer opinions and judgemental attitudes. I can't say she is wrong and I can't say that she is right...I can only say that we will all know individually the truth in the final hour of our live and when we die. I will face ???? and give account to ???? when my day comes and if there is a Heaven or a Hell....I hope that God has some compassion and understands just who and what I am and doesn't hold it against me and if He does, then He wasn't about all that lovey, lovey stuff that He teached about.
 

Eternal Gardener (743)
Monday May 21, 2012, 7:04 pm
He never would judge and ostracize people! Or, maybe... just the ones who willingly destroy the earth to fill their own pockets...?!
Swell posting Franco, thanks!
 

Richelle Rausch (43)
Monday May 21, 2012, 7:25 pm
Wow. Personally, I don't trust churches. Here's another reason why.
 

Mary T. (186)
Monday May 21, 2012, 11:18 pm
Thanks Franco, For posting, I believe in the Golden Rule to me that is the best way to live, Do into to others as you would have them do into you.
 

Jytte Nhanenge (64)
Tuesday May 22, 2012, 12:24 am
Thank you for sharing Dusty, that takes courage. I admire you for that, and I am extremely sorry for all the pain you have had to endure due to these flawed ethical values.

Eternal Gardener makes a good point: in our Modern Patriarchy we admire those who dominate society and exploit nature in order to maximize their own individual profit. These "masters" act in the most cruel, unethical, and mean ways - exercising their unlimited masculine power in order to dominate others. However, surprisingly the patriarchal church and government seem to admire these masters, just because they are rich - no matter how they got their riches. Oppositely, Patriarchy ostracizes, subordinates, and marginalizes those that belong to the "other" group, the non-masculine group, the "slaves" if you like. This group do not only include homosexuals, transsexuals, and bisexuals, but also some women, poor people, colored people, traditional people, children, and nature.

I have come to conclude that all, which relates to the feminine energy, is dominated in our current Patriarchy where the masculine force is hailed as a god. Thus, Patriarchy's law tells us to go ahead with unlimited profit making, vicious competition, waging wars - all of which harm society and nature, as long as we get rich in the process, then society will embrace us. That is an unsustainable social system, which we need to change in order to survive. No living person, animal or thing should be harmed due to how they were created or be subjects for the exploitation of others.

We need to raise you up Dusty and to profoundly apologize for the terrible suffering you have had to endure due to unbalanced and flawed values and perceptions in the patriarchal society. We can only do that by working together on ending Patriarchy and creating a quality of life for societies and nature worldwide.
 

Myron Scott (70)
Tuesday May 22, 2012, 3:04 am
Although I have seen rational but, I thought, strained arguments made
that Jesus is a pure fiction, it seems to me that the weight of the
evidence supports his life. (This doesn't mean that everything said
about him in the Bible is true.) Weighty, among others, is the Jewish
Roman historian Flavius Josephus (a non-Christian), who wrote of a
Jesus "called Christ" around 93 CE.

More generally, this article and several of the comments on it have
reminded me of a line from Thornton Wilder's play "The Rainmaker."
"You're so full of what's right, you can't see what's good."

There is nothing good, or godly, about the righteousness of homophobic
Christians.

BTW, there's a nice movie of "The Rainmaker" graced by a fine
performance by Katherine Hepburn.
 

Irene M. (69)
Tuesday May 22, 2012, 8:05 am
We are drawn to each other because of our similarities,but it is our differences we must learn to understand,and respect. Thank you Franco!

 

Dusty Debandi (113)
Tuesday May 22, 2012, 11:07 am
I don't know if I am out of line in doing this as I do not want to take away from this story but here is another prime example of what is wrong in this world with a Preacher here in North Carolina giving the go ahead for his congregation to display hatred and even kill the gays.

http://www.care2.com/news/member/884115011/3375315
 

Jytte Nhanenge (64)
Tuesday May 22, 2012, 1:08 pm
Please dear people go to the post that Dusty refers to; it is here in hotlink. There is an important petition to sign against this disgusting hatred preached by the church, and there is also a second petition about the same issue, mentioned in the comments. Let us all do the very best we can when it comes to this unjust domination:
http://www.care2.com/news/member/884115011/3375315
 

Past Member (0)
Tuesday May 22, 2012, 2:04 pm
Survey Links Religious Condemnation to LGBT Youth Suicides

I have used the word 'scum' to describe these people. For the ones that understand what their rhetoric leads to, I was being far, far too kind. Why would anyone respect the rights to these views?

When ‘Balance’ Becomes Bias: Transparency Urged on Anti-Gay Pundits

Why Does Religion Always Get a Free Ride?




 

Past Member (0)
Tuesday May 22, 2012, 4:23 pm
Religion, Family, and Gay Teen Suicides

'It breaks my heart to read about yet another gay youth suicide. What's astonishing to me is that I know of three gay suicides in as many months just among my Facebook friends. That's a whole lot, considering my relatively small number of friends. Granted, I don't know them all personally, but most of us share the common bonds of like-minded values and a respect for human life. Current events have caused me to start thinking -- a little deeper than before -- about the senselessness of these tragedies.

As I listened to the "It Gets Better" message produced a month ago by Eric James Borges (who recently took his life), I could hear the pain of abandonment in his voice as he spoke about growing up in a deeply religious -- and deeply prejudiced -- home. This appears to be a common thread among every gay suicide I've had to ponder. Deep in the fabric of the pain that pushes them to take their own lives is hate, more than likely 
"justified" by the misguided religious beliefs of others. Most media attention tends to focus on peer bullying as a major factor, and I agree with that to an extent. But often overlooked is the impact of the hateful bullying that takes place right in our own homes.

Dogmatic religious beliefs are the most often used defense against acceptance of gays. That argument lacks the most credibility and is the least tenable. It's hard to fathom a parent who despises and exudes contempt for their own child, but it's happening all the time. I have the unfortunate privilege of hearing their stories almost daily, and it never gets any easier. The emails are from gay youths thrown into a reparative therapy of the worst kind: rejection by siblings and parents. Many are left homeless on the street, with all family communications cut off. They're uninvited to family events, and parents feel that their actions are justified by religious dogma -- it's the Christian thing to do.

Rejection exacerbates the self-defeating nature of hate on a universal level, because it was most likely heterosexual relationships that procreated gay children: black or white, pharmacist or drug pusher, president or car thief. The simple solution would be for "haters" to not procreate. As unrealistic as that is, it would prevent some hate on the secular level of human existence. Most aren't willing to abstain from sex; it's a price they aren't willing to pay.

My cousin was a teenager when my family first learned he was gay, and you would have thought an airplane had crashed in our backyard. The malicious, bigoted religious rhetoric that ensued stunk to the heavens. I'm certain it contributed to my remaining closeted for the next 20 years. When I finally did come out, you would have believed Jesus himself had shown up in the backyard that time. Their rhetoric was condescending, venomous, and loaded with ill intent. It felt like the weight of the world was upon my shoulders. I've since become immune to the dissent, but the pain that these gay youths endure from those supposedly closest to them is simply unimaginable, and it's because they've been indoctrinated with religious beliefs that condone hate.

There are no winners in this religion-driven massacre of human life. The loss of even just one life is a love story that will never be told. If gays (or others) need any justification for rejecting religion and hate-based teachings, it can be found within the family circle, long before the impact of society. This burden of judgment and condemnation that awaits at home is horrendous and completely unbearable for many. Families must accept that using language that dehumanizes gays does not make them virtuous -- and it cannot make their children straight -- contrary to what religious beliefs may have taught them. Even if they can't identify with what it's like to be gay, they can still love their gay son or daughter.

Healing has to begin in our homes. Far too many are not fortunate enough to have authentic love, like that my mother provided. Religion, society, and self-righteous family members took a back seat to the reassuring love she provided.

Religious beliefs were introduced to our independently functioning universe by man -- and are incapable of absolving the perplexities and mystifications of human sexuality. The ignorance of asserting that everyone be the same, and aspire to the same existence, is bizarre, unfounded, and dogmatic against the backdrop of our highest aspirations to love others as we love ourselves.'

 

Past Member (0)
Tuesday May 22, 2012, 5:51 pm
"I've been thinking about our fortune
And I've decided that we're really not to blame
For the love that's deep inside us now
Is still the same"


 

Dusty Debandi (113)
Tuesday May 22, 2012, 5:53 pm
M.J.M. = What an awesome, awesome comment. You speek so eloquently and I am right there with you. The suicide rate amongst teenagers, gay teenagers is surmounting and it is not because they hate themselves or what they are but because they can't deal with the hatread and abandonment they feel from their families, their churches, their society, they peers, their school, their teachers, the police and everyone else. I cannot even imagine abandoning my child for any reason and it just appauls me and bewilders me that anyone can do this to their children. So sad. I wish that I had the gift to speak as well as you do and to put into words the way I feel as you have just done. Many Kudos to you my friend. People need to wise up. I would rather have a gay child than a dead child. And you are right when you say that healing begins in the home and the children need the support of their families that will love and support them and encourage them to grow and stand behind them.
I also want to thank Sheryl G. and Rosemary R. for keeping the secret of my being transgender for so many years. I was just moved by this thread to finally come out all the way and share my story so that others could really be enlightened as to the torment that Society as well as Churchs put on a person who is different than them.
I would send you a green star but I sent you all some already and it won't let me. Kudos to you Sheryl & Rosemary and also to you MJM for your comment. It's time to stop the hate!
 

Past Member (0)
Tuesday May 22, 2012, 6:12 pm
Dusty, thank you so much for that. I only wish I were that eloquent. Though the words aren’t mine, I share the sentiments to the letter.
 

Ingrid A. (530)
Tuesday May 22, 2012, 9:04 pm
Thank you Dandelion for the article. Its noted.
 

Rosemary Rannes (629)
Tuesday May 22, 2012, 10:01 pm
Friends ... first I want you all to know that my heart aches for the pain and suffering Dusty has endured which is so much more than anyone should ever have to go through in one lifetime!
Dusty has been a very dear, caring, supportive friend to me for so long. Without Dusty's encouragement and compassion, exceptional ways not even accessible to me is the sharing of 'the stuff' we are made of to help me laugh at myself... and beyond that, to enable me to take a closer look at who I am and sometimes provide a solid reality check!
Dusty is the kind of person anyone/everyone wants ! Loyal and trustworthy !

I am sharing how I feel about Dusty because I want everyone to know that when it comes to labels there are many that would definitely stick to this amazing friend of mine and many of yours too!
The label gay is what some feel is by choice. But the TRUTH is that in some cases being gay is not by choice. It is physiological and the individual must come to terms with deciding on which gender feels 'right'.
In cases where children experience this their parents are the ones who decided their 'fate'.
But Dusty has already outlined this for you.

I feel that judging anyone, bullying them because they don't meet your 'criteria' is ludicrous and illustrates a superficiality that quite frankly is limiting in the journey we are given in this life.

Check out this link that Dusty offered Tell Reverend to Step Down After Hateful Speech Targeting LGBT People. SIGN NOW!

There ARE many ways in which we can bring a greater understanding and ultimately a greater acceptance of those in our world who are gay. They are just like you and me with the same hopes and dreams!
Promoting tolerance is just a baby step but it is a start.
Progressing beyond tolerance to just opening your heart with the realization that aside from their different sexual orientation, friends, family, economic stability, success and happiness is what they desire and strive for too" we can be the change we wish to see in our world".

For too long discrimination has lashed out causing misery and suffering and the blinders discrimination wears in the name of 'self righteousness' is a dis-ease in our world today that is archaic and serves no purpose.

To friends here, firstly to Sheryl my dear friend and Dusty's friend and your friend too, we all need to thank her for sharing her life experiences with us, both physical and spiritual pain, and how her open heart welcoming into her circle gay friends, who as she has shared, stood by her when she needed help the most!

To other friends who have shared here quoting scripture, offering Dusty their love and support, positive energy and ongoing friendship I applaud you! You are amazing and trust me, Dusty knows who you are and loves you back ! And she will need your ongoing support because there is another upcoming surgery she will undergo ... we all need to stay close and give Dusty all we can to help her get through this and whatever may come in the years ahead.

Isn't that what friends do? Dusty has done that for some of you ! Dusty has always been there for me !

Finally some of my friends know this about me, that my family is Jewish. As a young girl I knew all too well how cruel people could be. Other kids my age that I tried to befriend in school called me "dirty Jew" chasing my twin sister and I home frome school. We cried. We were afraid. We didn't know why they hated us!
What reason could they have? Eventually our mother transfered us to another school and there never was another incidence of discrimination again.
We never understood as young children why they couldn't see we were just like them!
Loved to skate ... enjoyed the movies !

Today discrimination targets gay children to the extent that they are so fearful and 'ashamed' they can't and don't tell their parents or family!
Bearing this unbearable burden alone, hiding the scars their heart is forced to endure in silence!

I can not imagine what this feels like- can you? Can you imagine how a child feels, or an adult for that matter who is gay, knowing they are being condemned by a community of people they only wish to know and share with, only to be ridiculed and beaten as Dusty was !
Dusty tells us how she tried but failed in suicide attempts! Well I for one and so thankful Dusty is here with us today. But my heart breaks knowing she suffered all her life enduring so much pain.

For some, as we have seen in the news especially the last couple of years, many young children at school are bullied so badly they do succeed in suicide ... so tragically ending a life of promise, of hopes and dreams unfulfilled!

Who I ask you has the right to take those hopes and dreams, that promise of life away from anyone.
Is being gay, homosexual or transexual a crime? Only to the one looking through the eyes of righteous indignation!

Dusty said it best: " It's time to stop the hate! "

I left my comment on this thread Survey Links Religious Condemnation to LGBT Youth Suicides .















 

Lika S. (130)
Wednesday May 23, 2012, 2:49 am
Great article, Franco. As a Christian, I've always believed it to be wrong to discriminate against others. Regardless of our sexual orientation, we are ALL God's creation. And when Jesus became the sacrificial lamb to absolve us all of our sins, I don't believe being gay is a sin. What a loving couple does on their own turf is always a beautiful thing.

It's only when we are abusing people that it becomes a sin/crime. I am looking into placing more awareness and equity in ensuring that our LGBT youth are protected from this type of bullying and abuse.
 

Dandelion G. (382)
Wednesday May 23, 2012, 6:33 am
"I cannot think that we are useless or God would not have created us. There is one God looking down on us all. We are all the children of one God. The sun, the darkness, the winds are all listening to what we have to say."
Geronimo, Chiricahua Apache

This was said by a very famous man that many know his name. A great man whose people were tormented and killed just by being who they were, Indian. Even today, Geronimo's name is misused by equating it to the likes of Bin Laden in the raid. So from the very top of this Countries Leadership, under the leadership of a black man no less, to have the name of Geronimo chosen, and not some other code word, speaks of how an attitude continues on.

Whereby those who do such things are to the point of being so ignorant they do not see they are being ignorant or racist and many still want to defend such ill choice of using Geronimo's name as it was some type of honor. It is not an honor to be equated to a modern day terrorist for that is what Geronimo was considered back then by people who did not feel Indians had any rights to anything. It was no honor to those of us with Indian heritage, do you think the people of color would of liked Martin Luther King Jr, KIA...killed in action? No, the USA had to go kill Geronimo all over again and equating him as the Terrorist Bin Laden.

Generation after generation we pass on these negatives, and as I said from my first comment, these are all learned behaviours. Little children will play with each other, matters not the color, sex, what style of hair, but take a few adults to walk off with a child and say, "I don't want you playing with little Johnny no more, he is black, or his family is Jewish" what has begun is to set in motion another generation to hold these prejudicial views.

How many children throw out in anger when things go wrong, "you queer, you faggot" even before they may even understand what the word means, but they have heard it used that way by adults in anger so they do so too. Then when they do learn the word it is automactically instilled in them that something is wrong with people of whom the term is associated with.

Children watch too much junk on TV, they overhear too many adult conversations that are not spoken quietly, so they learn ill behaviour just as they are learning how to talk, walk, and learn to read. They are sponges and soak it all up, the positives we show them but they gather the negatives as well.

So it is imperative that we all, as a Nation of adults, do our own part to not partake in this and to stand up to it when and where we see it. If we want hate to leave our world then we must first erase it from our own hearts. However, there is also a need for discernment, and it is not wrong to speak out when someone is not showing the best of themselves.

Yes, Dusty confided in me of her being born with a medical condition that was no fault of her own. And as the saying goes, "there but for the Grace of God go I". Yes, I kept this in confidentiality until now as she speaks it here I will state what I do. I am not a gay person, but she understood enough about me to know I was a person that listened with my Heart first. I treat all people with respect and in turn I expect the same back and with Dusty she has always been that, respectful and a friend to me.

Honestly, I do not know how she has endured all she has been through in life, but as one can tell by her own writing there is deep pain there, so she hasn't escaped without wounds, deep ones. However, she is a great inspiration to me, and to many others, for if we can see what a good hearted person she is, despite all she is going through and has gone through, then the Spirit that is inside all of us, the very essence of life, is strong. To me she is the Walking witness to this ever loving and powerful Spirit that dwells in all of us, if we would be so inclined to draw on that more than we would draw on the negatives that we are all capable of projecting as well.

The way of my ancestors was not one of a religion, but we were and are a very spiritual people. However, if others find comfort in their religion so be it. Just don't force it down others throats or twist it to suit your own personal agendas, in particular when it is to make secular policy and to be prejudicial.

Remember the words in all the "books" were written by humans, subject to their choice of what they put in there and their interpretation. My ancestors didn't use books, we watched what the Creator had made and learned from all we saw in all that Creator had made, and listened with our Hearts and spoke from the place of the Heart. As the head will get you into trouble most the time if not used in conjunction with the Heart.

With that I will leave with this message:

Where no one intrudes, many can live in harmony. Chief Dan George

 

Dusty Debandi (113)
Wednesday May 23, 2012, 7:27 am
Just a little joking around here but I've heard it said so many times that sex was created for the purpose of procreation so with that being the case.....those that do not want to have children, those who are past the age of child bearing years, those who for some reason cannot have children, etc., need to stop having sex then maybe you would not produce those gay babies you all don't want. I bet you arent going to stop having sex now - will ya?????? It simply amazes me how the so-called Christian Sector can so easily take scripture out of context and form it to be what they want it to mean so they can use it against you to put the fear of God in you and straighten you out. At one time they used to stone to death those that committed adultry. If they did that today it would sure put an end to overpopulation. I have sat in many church where I observed Pastors cheating on their wives, the congragation spewing gossip and lies about someone, causing discorse....Religious leaders brought into the lime light for ripping off their followers for thousands of dollars (Jim Bakker), and even some who were caught picking up prostitutes(Jimmy Swaggart). Adultery is a choice, gossip is a choice, stealing is a choice, lying is a choice, yet when they are caught with their hands in the till and their pants down....they go onto preach with little to no reprucussion for their actions YET these very same people are the one's that want to cast me down to hell, abuse me and even kill me for something I have no control over. A vast majority of children very young in age feel the difference between them and the other children long before they can even put a name onto their feelings or even understand what it means. How is it that children KNOW when they are 5, 6, 7, 8, etc. that they are different from you unless it is an ingrown tugging at their hearts and minds that lead them. Teenagers need more moral support to help them thru their change of life and making decisions about who they are, where they are going, and what their value system is and to discuss with them about things of sexual nature and it is just horrific that during this drammatic time and change in their lives that many have no one that they can turn to and even fear doing so - and for the most part, don't even know why. They have fed off of the negativity of those closest to them and have the most impact in their lives as to what type of person they will become and when they are made to feel that something is wrong with them or discusting, or that they will go to hell for how they feel....it literally turns their world upside down with little to no understanding as to why. Most children thrive upon wanting to feel their parents love and to know that they are accepted and okay and to make them proud, but when they feel the disdain and dissappointment from the ones that matter to them the most for being something that they themselves do not understand...they end up feeling that they are broke somehow, feel abandoned, feel worthless, and often tend to go deeply into their own shell. This is when they need the acceptance and love of the family the most and often times they end up shunned instead and treated as if they are throw aways. Parents, Teachers, Society, stop being ignorant and become informed. You all will in some way face these issues at some time in your life. Ignorance and judgemental attitudes is the sin here - not being gay, bi, transgender or whatever.
 

Dandelion G. (382)
Wednesday May 23, 2012, 7:43 am
Good to hear a little upbeat in your wording today.....in light of the mentioning the Jimmy Swaggarts of the world, the Priest with children, I'd like to offer this. I suppose it is why they need religion and others of us tend to a more Spiritual Walk.

“Religion is for people who are afraid of going to hell and spirituality is for people who have already been there.”
Running Hawk Lakota


 

Dusty Debandi (113)
Wednesday May 23, 2012, 7:46 am
I always wondered where that saying came from about Religion. We say that alot in N.A. but never knew it's origin.
 

Myron Scott (70)
Wednesday May 23, 2012, 8:04 am
Some Christians make much noise about so-called Gifts of the Spirit,
including "discernment," but fail to exercise discernment when citing
specific Biblical passages out of context to support this or that bias.
As an agnostic, I've never understood how they can do this when their
bias plainly conflicts with what Jesus said was the "whole of the Law
and the Prophets" according to Luke 10: 27. That is: “'Love the Lord
your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your
strength and with all your mind'; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’”

According to John 1:46, Jesus himself suffered prejudice simply
because of his family's place of origin. So, he knew of what he spoke
when, again according to Luke 10:25-37, he explained who were the
"neighbors" that the Law (of Love) commands us to love, using the
parable of the Good Samaritan, Samaritans being among the most
despised of all people in his time. Jesus could not have made it clearer
that we must love everyone without prejudice. Also see Matthew 25:40.

I am agnostic, but I do find some wisdom and truth in religious texts,
including the ones I've mentioned. I do not understand why so many
self-styled Christians choose to reject them. Franco's posting is consistent
with these teachings, far more so than anything his critics have posted.
 

Myron Scott (70)
Wednesday May 23, 2012, 8:19 am
Just read Dusty's most recent comment. It is a beautiful comment,
illuminating what Jesus (among many truly spiritual teachers) is
recorded to have taught about love and spiritual enlightenment.
In Matthew 18:3, Jesus urges us to become as little children; and,
as Dusty explains, most little children know, on some level, who they
are and what nourishes them and what hurts them. Nourishing others
is what loving our neighbors calls us to do, I think.
 

michael sullivan (1027)
Wednesday May 23, 2012, 10:05 am
in the immortal words of john lennon, "all you need is love"!
 

Past Member (0)
 

Jenny Dooley (830)
Thursday May 24, 2012, 7:19 pm
Thank you for your news story, Franco. Gladly noted and promoted.
 

Kit B. (276)
Friday May 25, 2012, 5:02 pm

If there's a road to heaven then I know a number of people that walking the wrong path. Judgements, condemnation and feeling self superior is easy, it's learning acceptance and embracing difference that's hard. Spread your arms in acceptance and they will be filled with love.
 

Jamie Clemons (280)
Friday May 25, 2012, 6:20 pm
Why do you think he hung out with all those guys?
 

Edgar Zuim (48)
Friday May 25, 2012, 6:44 pm
We are all equal in front of God, regardless of religion, sexuality or race.
What matters is we respect our brothers and follow the Jesus teching's:
Love each other in the same way I love you all.
 

LD B. (40)
Friday May 25, 2012, 10:01 pm
Noted.
 

Thomas H. (36)
Saturday May 26, 2012, 6:57 am
Whew. Lots of great, compassionate comments here, and only a couple of eye-rollers from the Ignorance section. Oh well.

Franco, my but that was a doozy of a first post. Thanks, and keep 'em coming. You are a valuable person here and I look forward to seeing more of your posts and comments.

Dusty, many deep bows to you. So much suffering you have endured, but HERE you are, NOW, inspiring countless other human beings whom you have never met and who love you and care about you. Society is cruel and mean and very much in need of you, Dusty. You have great courage.
 

Gene Jacobson (252)
Saturday May 26, 2012, 8:53 am
Marena? "Who is this Michael Wood person...??? A close confidant of Jesus...??? To presume that he knows the mind and thoughts of Jesus is preposterous..."

Precisely. I'm glad you've read the bible cover to cover. I have too several times - raised Lutheran, mother and grandmother Sunday School teachers, but I could never buy it because it contradicts itself so often. You can prove any point you like by cherry picking a particular sentence or verse from book, Leviticus being the evangelical's tool of preferred hatred sponsorship. And I agree with you, ANY person purporting to know the heart and mind of Jesus is on thin ice. Very thin. Since not one of those gospels were written by anyone alive when Jesus was. They are ALL made up and have been altered over time. There is more material available that is not IN the bible because the men in power deemed those stories dangerous to their maintaining power. The key to their power lies in them persuading us that though God is our parent too, He only chooses to speak to THEM, we are somehow unworthy. That is patently ridiculous. By keeping people afraid and divided, they maintain power, not to mention a very nice lifestyle - the vow of poverty doesn't really exist anymore, it is more like a vow to extract every thin dime they can out of people foolish enough to believe that they hear God and we cannot. They are liars, Marena. They are the scribes and pharisees Jesus chastised in his day. And the rich bankers and CEO's are the money lenders whose tables He overturned and ran out of the temple. The wolves have been passing themselves off as sheep for so long we don't notice anymore that their coat is cashmere not wool. They are no more "of God" than they are "of the people". They are those who teach hatred, division and separation, who think they may stand in judgment of all who disagree with them. Well, they are wrong. Judgment does not rest with men, nor humanity. Nor may we usurp our Creator's love for hateful purposes. And we do not need them to talk to our Creator for us, we can hear as clearly as they - although I don't for a moment believe they hear anything but the sound of their own voice and our money jingling in their pocket. We all have the voice of God within us, that small still voice that tells us what is right or wrong - we drown it out with our own opinions, but if you quiet your mind, you will hear that love is the answer to every question and nothing further is really needed is there? Live that truth and you don't need anyone to tell you what to think, what to fear, what to hate and who to give your money to. They who speak most loudly in public are in private so far from God that He doesn't even know their name. They have farther to go than any to find true grace and humility as well as love for their neighbors. I wish they'd stop coveting my property too...
 

Dusty Debandi (113)
Saturday May 26, 2012, 5:29 pm
@ Lika = In regards to your comment, "What a loving couple does on their own turf is always a beautiful thing" I find myself shaking my head and saying..."They still just don't get it".

I know that you mean well but it is comments such as this that demonstrate to me that we have a long way to go and that there is still some reservation in your thinking. Why do I say this?????

You state that what a loving couple does on their own turf is always a beautiful thing and I ask you this - Do you kiss your boyfriend in public? Do you hold his hand in public? You know, if I was to do those same exact things in public with my partner......I would be beaten for it. Why should I have to keep my feelings for someone on MY turf? I don't ask the hetrosexual society to keep their kissing and hand holding and expression of love to each other on your turf and where exactly is MY turf???? On an island somewhere far away with electrical fencens around it. You sound like that Reverend that is spewing hatred for the gay community stating that they need to be shipped off somewhere to a camp and away from society. I hope and don't believe that you really meant it to come out that way but you might want to do some self-examination as to just how you really feel about the issue before you shout out "Pro-Gay" statements followed by "As long as they are on their turf" comments.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

@ Marena = Your comments,
For the first 61 years of my life (before I became a born-again Christian and actually read the Bible) I felt that this lifestyle was wrong and frankly, ludicrous... and I STILL do...that's my right as an individual"
and
"You all talk about love, not judging others (lest ye be judged thyself) etc, yet you judge and condemn those who are not in agreement with you on this issue."

MY COMMENTS TO THIS: You did not choose the hetrosexual lifestyle, you were born hetrosexual. I was born a man and I love women. I did not choose this lifestyle -I was born this way. You are making the assumption that I chose this lifestyle and I did not. Who would ever want to be gay or transgender and be the brunt of so much hatred? Who? What If I came down on your for being hetrosexual...what if I beat you up or killed you because you were hetrosexual? How would that make you feel when you had NO CHOICE in what you were born? When I use the term ignorant or intolerent...I am not saying that you have to accept my homosexuality but it would be nice if you took the time to get more understanding before you judge the life I live. I don't hold it against you because you are hetrosexual. If I don't like someone it is because they are two faced, or a lier, thief, manipulative, and so forth, which are chosen behaviors but I don't judge you and place value on your worth because of who you go to bed with and make your life with. Thats the journey that you are on and it doesn't have to be MY journey but I am not going to beat you up or hate you because of that. Why is it as a Society so hard to just allow people to be who they are? I don't judge or condemn you because you are hetrosexual but I also ask that you do not judge or condemn me because I am gay, bi, transexual or whatever. It doesn't bother me that your straight no more than it should bother me that I am what I am. I accept you - why can't you accept me????
I judge a person because of their integrity or lack thereof, their honesty or lack their of, their loyality, faithfullness, accountability, etc. Who I sleep with and make my life with does not define who I am. I am so much more than that!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

@ Thomas - thank you so much for your comment. It really touched my heart. I don't know if I am inspiring or not or if I have great courage or not. Sometimes I feel weak and exauseted in my plight to be who I am. I am just me and that is all that I know how to be and I try to allow you to be you. NOBODY wins in the end when we all walk around trying to be something or someone that we are not. Our true value lies in being ourselves.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

@ Gene J. = You are so right when you say that we all have the ability to hear God and to talk to God (whoever you perceive God to be) and it has took me decades to work thru the self-hatred that man tries to tell me that I should have for being me. I think that God knew what he / she/ it was doing when he made us such diverse human beings. Just as a rainbow has so many different colors and it all comes together to make something magnificently awesome....so to we need people of all races and gender identifications to bring about something beautiful. Can you even begin to imagine what an awesome and beautiful world this would be if man could learn to live together inspite of our differences and work together for the greater good of all? Can you just imagine????? All that energy working together for the positive?!? What a beautiful world this would be if we all practiced love towards one another.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Just because you're straight................it doesn't matter.
Just because you're gay.....................it doesn't matter.
Just because your transgender...............it doesn't matter.
What does matter............................is how we treat one another.

That in and of itself will make or break this World!
 

Susan V. (80)
Saturday May 26, 2012, 7:44 pm
This is interesting. Although I don't get the reason for the category name of "Jobs." "Justices makes sense.

Whatever the case, I don't see how anyone can read the Gospels and come to the conclusion that Jesus would condemn anyone for anything. He seems to be offering healing, unconditional love and forgiveness - with a little advice about not "sinning" (adultry) again. I've read these a number of times and had to study them as a child - after school. Found no reason whatsoever for anyone to be denying any human of human rights.
I do think Jesus might be a bit pissed that he's being used by some as an excuse to just be downright mean. I can see the chairs and tables flyin'.
 

Dusty Debandi (113)
Saturday May 26, 2012, 7:59 pm
AT S.V. - The category name of "Jobs" ?????

I'm not sure what you are talking about.

Are you commenting on something I posted?
 

Jytte Nhanenge (64)
Sunday May 27, 2012, 5:01 am
This thread is getting better and better, the quality of the comments are impressive and educative. Thank you all for your comments.

I just wanted to add a small interesting piece of information. Close your eyes and think for a moment that our society was different and that it was normal to be homosexual. That having a love life with your own sex would be seen as normal. Well, now open you eyes: there was such a society far back. The ancient Greek philosophers (500-220 years BC) were for the most homosexuals. I studied philosophy for many years and I especially enjoyed the year I learned abut the old Greek philosophers. It really surprised me how their homosexuality was discussed openly and taken for granted. Well, it was not a society without prejudice. They had slaves who they considered equal to cattle, and they perceived women as being lower leveled human beings, only useful for making food and children. So the procreated with women, but the real love making was something special between men. :)

The point I want to make is this: what we learn, we often take for granted. However, those learning are not absolute truths, they often come from other people's dogmas. Hence, we need to question each and everything we have learned to find out, if that learning is valuable in the society we want for ourselves and our children, and dismiss all the learning that is not useful. That could of course tempt us to acknowledge discrimination against some groups of people, groups to which we do not belong ourselves. However, that is risky. Since everything in life is circular, the discrimination we hand out will eventually, in some form, return to us. They call it Karma, I call it the "boomerang effect." So an equal society with space for all does make sense. If we cannot find it in our hearts to support an egalitarian society out of generosity, kindness, and love, then we can at least support it due to our enlightened self-interest.
 

Dandelion G. (382)
Sunday May 27, 2012, 1:30 pm
Dusty, if you notice on the chart given in the story Franco put on, you will see the word "Jobs"

 

Mary H. (47)
Sunday May 27, 2012, 4:29 pm
Thank you for the information
 

Dusty Debandi (113)
Sunday May 27, 2012, 4:36 pm
Recently, a transgender woman from Dallas was given a ticket and charged with disorderly conduct for using the women's restroom.

No one should be charged with a crime for attempting to fulfill their own identity. »

Take action link: http://www.care2.com/go/z/e/AGpme/zm2h/cBaCg


 

Dusty Debandi (113)
Sunday May 27, 2012, 4:57 pm
10,656 signatures on the story, "NC Pastor Calls for Concentration Camps for Gays".

This is so totally awesome as it gives me hope that perhaps in my lifetime, people's hatred towards those they do not understand...will change and turn to love and acceptance.
 

Grace Adams (40)
Tuesday May 29, 2012, 6:15 am
I suspect that much of the Jewish commandments about ceremonial purity for Jews before God had to do with public health measures under difficult circumstances. Under those particular difficult circumstances, they were most likely sound advice. Back then, trying to eat meat more than a day and a half to two days after cooking it, was likely to give the eater gastritis--not good. Today, leaving meat unrefrigerated for more than about two hours is also bad news. He have refrigeration--they didn't.
 

Dandelion G. (382)
Tuesday May 29, 2012, 6:28 am
Excellent point Grace.
 

Emma S. (227)
Thursday May 31, 2012, 12:46 am
What an astonishing number of interesting comments - and the article is food for thought. Thank you, Franco.
 

Jytte Nhanenge (64)
Thursday May 31, 2012, 6:17 am
Perhaps this article will interest you: From truthdig written by Chris Hedges, "The war on gays"
http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/the_war_on_gays_20120528/
 

Sandra H. (16)
Saturday June 2, 2012, 2:52 pm
Great article, thanks Frank! It sums it all up - Love one another!
 
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