Thursday February 26, 2009, 12:53 pm
Noted. Atrocious...I am biting the inside of my cheeks to keep from saying things that come to mind. May they burn in their own hell one day. Thank you, Bill...a tough story to bring, but one we needed to know.

Thursday February 26, 2009, 1:24 pm
How horrible.

Thursday February 26, 2009, 1:33 pm
Violence hurts animal rights, animal welfare and deters legal change.

Thursday February 26, 2009, 3:30 pm
Yeah, that'll teach those humans, cook a bunch of animals alive. Never mind the suffering of the creatures they claim to protect. This is horrible, but not surprising. They really are nothing more than terrorists. *Sad* Evil animal murdering terrorists.

Thursday February 26, 2009, 3:43 pm
Believe it or not I hope tbhere caught to!! I didn't think it was in the US.
Damm Amateurs !!

Thursday February 26, 2009, 4:28 pm
just because someone sprayed "this is from .....does not mean it is them. Give me a break. Are you that ignorant???"? ALF does not destroy animals they rescue them....... anyone can paint something on a building and claim credit. Never occurred to you that maybe someone was trying to get ALF in trouble and did this to blame them. Check out their website....they acknowledge what they do

Thursday February 26, 2009, 4:54 pm
I MOVED your story to the Care2 news thread where anyone with common sense would put a story to be noted. I am just saying that anyone can spray paint anything and say that they are from some any organization. You seem to single these people out....and try and condemn me for being an activist because I believe animals need to be taken care of

Thursday February 26, 2009, 5:11 pm
Now what !?!?!
Gee, anything else that could/can go wrong ???

May God help us all !!

Thursday February 26, 2009, 5:23 pm
You cant just accuse people of doing things because it appears that they did it. I do not believe that the Organization that is being blamed necessarily did it. but whoever did it--has no regard for life--they could have killed many more animals. This place was due to open in April. I hope that they find and prosecute whoever did this.

Thursday February 26, 2009, 5:34 pm
I agree....maybe someone didn't want this place to open and did what they did. Since there is no proof I guess we as a society are innocent until proven guilty.

Thursday February 26, 2009, 5:37 pm
They send you copies to stop host abuse too.

Thursday February 26, 2009, 5:38 pm
noted

Thursday February 26, 2009, 5:50 pm
They also show what I wrote. I did respond.

Thursday February 26, 2009, 5:50 pm
It would appear to me that this has become personal. This issue is about animals at risk and birds that died. Maybe if we stay on topic we can all agree that someone killed the birds and no one has taken responsibility for it--so we do not know who did it. But it is criminal and I hope that they are caught. I would hate to think that animal activists are capable of this kind of betrayal to the very creatures they are to be helping.

Thursday February 26, 2009, 5:53 pm
Noted and As any Organization of Deniable Membership/Closed Cells; Can Dey Responsibility but When Direct/Vio;ent Actions are Promoted and Supported By the MouthPieces For the "Group" Then The "group" (which Suddenly Becomes Much smaller)Should bear some Responsibility for Promoting Terrorism.....
and Live Animal Incineration Perps; Should Have It's Own Special AfterLife; The Eternal Bug Zapper;
Repeating The LifeCycle of a FruitFly.....

Thursday February 26, 2009, 6:01 pm
What a joke. Go to ALF..........they actually tell you where there are gonna be......this is total ignorance.

Thursday February 26, 2009, 6:03 pm
thank you Liz for keeping this spot on.

Thursday February 26, 2009, 6:13 pm
Right Johnny since the ALF are criminal, admit to being destructive criminals we should trust them...

The ALF admitted the did this locally.

You have serious issues if you defend what is terrorism, silent cells built to cause issue with who is who is not new, criminals do it all the time.

Thursday February 26, 2009, 8:08 pm
I thought that this was a place for comments not accusations. I thought that this was about the birds that were killed. It would appear Bill that you KNOW that ALF did this. That puts you in a better position than me because I do NOT know who did this. BUT I KNOW THAT BIRDS DIED. Is this post about ALF or about the injustice of what happened?????????

Thursday February 26, 2009, 8:54 pm
Clearly Liz its both, groups like the ALF, SHAC, The Family all attack and committ violent acts and they disguise their violence and terroristic tactics in the guise of animal rights.

In the past year more ALF, SHAC, and Family members have been put in jail for very very long times for the violence they committ than in the history of animal rights. Its obvious what happened here, one was spraying the walls while the other threw fire bombs in an area they thought was sill under constuction, they were wrong.

To use the ALF reports all their action defense is ludoicris, the ALF are unknown cells and if the screw up and kill as thses did and express ownership only to find out their actions would be the key that kills all the other aggressive violence in the name of animal rights becuase it always ends in death and they just proved that without a doubt

The UC bombers are in jail too, an all their charged with is AETA violation which is only five years, wait for the arson charges,attempted murder charges, interstate flight charges they may well face life in prison.

Yea Liz my puorpose on this site it to assist in stopping ecoterrorism and it says so right on my profile.

Heres a suggestion, the way to save animals generally does not include setting them on fire in a cage where they die just like someone trapped in a burning car.

I did not compose the article, nor did I set a zoo on fire and kill 40 beautiful birds, the ALF did.

Thursday February 26, 2009, 9:15 pm
It is amazing to me that they didnt walk into jail and lock themselves in their cells. If they are stupid enough to spray paint their name on the walls--and commit arson--they deserve to be caught. but I dont think that any organized group is that stupid. I do not know ALF--I am speaking generally. I did not look at your profile Bill--I was just interested in commenting on this article. But I think that is over now. The poor birds have been lost in all of this--and that is all I wanted to comment on in the first place.

Thursday February 26, 2009, 9:23 pm
I must say that I agree with ALF stealing those beagles in 2002. I would have done the same thing. They were no doubt going to be used in vivisection research as they are the dog of choice. They were smart enough to pull that one off. I am so glad that the fire was extinguished when it was--many more animals--especially those tigers that were close by--could have been killed.

Friday February 27, 2009, 4:24 am
Anyone no matter how good the original intent is..that would set fire..attempt to bomb..and or threaten to harm anyone or their property is a criminal..Period..
These organizations are known for leaving the fact that they were there and are responsible for these terrible actions..Stupid..yes absolutely..but in their warped minds they want the world to know they did it..its strokes their shattered egos I suppose..

Bad things are bound to happen when people go to the extremes of setting fires..bombing..are they crazy and so ignorant that they haven't the better sense to realize they could indeed harm an animal or a human life..let alone damage to property..

But these extremists just don't get that..and they are so wrapped up in their warped minds that it doesn't matter to them..And so here we are..dead animals..How pathetic and sad..

Thanks Bill..
Noted..

Friday February 27, 2009, 8:50 am
Change that works is change in law, and when all you do is 100% illegal you accomplsih nothing. Just like the recent arrest and conviction of the SHAC group in GB. All those petition you signed to stop HLS and animal cruely were never even delivered, they were in the basement alonmg with millions in donations give to hjelp animals while SHAC sent blood feminie hygine products to researchers.

And you want to know who the fools are? The people who supported them and believe them, because SHAC robbed your money, lied and never delivered a petition and laughed all the way to the bank, now their in jail.

Good ridance.

Friday February 27, 2009, 2:23 pm
So sorry for the birds that died. Glad it wasn't any worse though. Ever heard of innocent until proven guilty Bill?

Friday February 27, 2009, 7:22 pm
Oh please!! The ALF did no such thing!! Maybe someone who was imitating the ALF did this, but not anyone who is knowledgable about how the real ALF operates did this I can assure you of that. The ALF avoids hurting animals, even humans, in what is done. SEE THE ALF CREDO BELOW:



The ALF credo -

http://www.animalliberationfront.com/ALFront/alf_credo.htm

The Animal Liberation Front (ALF) carries out direct action against animal abuse in the form of rescuing animals and causing financial loss to animal exploiters, usually through the damage and destruction of property.

The ALF's short-term aim is to save as many animals as possible and directly disrupt the practice of animal abuse. Their long term aim is to end all animal suffering by forcing animal abuse companies out of business.

It is a nonviolent campaign, activists taking all precautions not to harm any animal (human or otherwise).

Because ALF actions may be against the law, activists work anonymously, either in small groups or individually, and do not have any centralized organization or coordination.

The Animal Liberation Front consists of small autonomous groups of people all over the world who carry out direct action according to the ALF guidelines. Any group of people who are vegetarians or vegans and who carry out actions according to ALF guidelines have the right to regard themselves as part of the ALF.


The ALF guidelines are:

1. TO liberate animals from places of abuse, i.e. laboratories, factory farms, fur farms, etc, and place them in good homes where they may live out their natural lives, free from suffering.

2. TO inflict economic damage to those who profit from the misery and exploitation of animals.

3. TO reveal the horror and atrocities committed against animals behind locked doors, by performing non-violent direct actions and liberations.

4. TO take all necessary precautions against harming any animal, human and non-human.

5. To analyze the ramifications of all proposed actions, and never apply generalizations when specific information is available. See Mission Statement.

Saturday February 28, 2009, 5:28 am
Sadly if you believe a "credo" will be followed bye cells that are unregulated like guerrilla warfar; your quite the niave human and would pretty much believe anything based on your faith and your beliefs which have absolutely no control over another actions. THe KKK thinks their right too.

If you believe that any group that says clearly what they do is illegal, a goup that puts out instruction books like Arson Around with Auntie ALF, if you don't listed to the real story ALF bomber Rodney Coronado now tells, one of regret one of non-violence one that clearly says the actions of the ALF made the ALF what society says they are and the way to change is not destruction and violence.

If you don't listen to law enforcement in too many countries to count and when so many aggressive animal activists are in jail, going to jail or the next action will put them there then you don't even care about the humans. Jail is not a maytars joy, ever since the 6 SHAC members went to jail a year or more ago this site went from free the SHAC 7 to total apathy about the inprisoned "heros". Thats fact you can't deny and you who support violence are the one who generated the surge of outrage and also generated the surge of apathy. Its how yout selected activism works and it's convuluted logic.

You have no credo.

Saturday February 28, 2009, 7:29 am
EVERYONE IS ENTITLED TO THEIR OWN OPINION AND BELIEFS. THEY ARE BASED ON THAT PERSONS KNOWLEDGE. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH. IT WOULD APPEAR TO ME BILL THAT YOU ARE AN EGOMANIAC THAT DOES NOT ALLOW OTHERS TO DISAGREE WITH YOUR OPINION. WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU DOING ON CARE2 IF YOU DONT SUPPORT ANIMAL ADVOCATES?????????????

Saturday February 28, 2009, 7:33 am
BILL--I FIND YOU RUDE, AGGRESSIVE AND INSULTING. THAT IS MY OPINION. AND I AM BASING IT ON MY PERSONAL KNOWLEDGE OF HOW YOU HAVE CONDUCTED YOURSELF ON THIS ISSUE.

Saturday February 28, 2009, 8:02 am
I support animal advocacy, violence and destruction are criminal actions totally seperate from any real and effective change. Groups like the ALF and SHAC do what they do for their own egos not for anything else.

I hope they all go to jail if they commit a criminal action in the guise of animal rights, call it what it is ecoterrorism and I did not coin the word, the legal system did.

Saturday February 28, 2009, 9:20 am
You have a nice day Liz, I will not bite your bait and you will not derail this thread.

Saturday February 28, 2009, 9:26 am

HI LIZ!!! WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN ALL MY LIFE!!! :)

(Sent you a green star and friend request.)

Saturday February 28, 2009, 9:46 am
Hi Billye---both gladly accepted. Thank you. So, this crap has gotten to you too?? LOL..

Saturday February 28, 2009, 9:51 am
You have a nice day too Bill--but in your mind I am sure--all you need is yourself to make that happen.

Saturday February 28, 2009, 10:41 am
Na Liz I have right on my side and the fact groups like the ALF and those who support them think they get to pick and choose acions that they feel are positive even when there destructive actions are making a foolish choice, to believe it is helping is even more foolish

ALF stands for Arsonist Lazy Failures.

It takes work to change law anyone can throw a bottle full of gas and the ALF have thrown too many to count.

Saturday February 28, 2009, 11:28 am
this story is FALSE! the birds were freed, according to the new york times

http://planetsave.com/blog/2009/02/28/contrary-to-reports-the-alf-did-not-kill-40-birds-in-italy/

Saturday February 28, 2009, 12:04 pm
Very interesting!! do I smell government S*** ??

Saturday February 28, 2009, 12:49 pm
Here is the bite back report so the ALF did it.

They say they rescued 30 chickens, and we are supposed to believe a zoo has a rapter house full of chickens they just happen to save before burning they place down, right....and the Booklyn Bridge is back up for sale.

So they now offically claim it! Recuscued chickens my butt.

anonymous report:

"CENTRAL ITALY
WE HAVE RESCUED 30 CHICKENS FROM THE CAGES OF A BREEDER AND HUNTER
DEDICATED TO ALL ANIMAL LIBERATION PRISONERS AND ALL THE ANIMALS CAGED"
http://www.directaction.info/news_feb26_09.htm


Who do you think your kidding?

Saturday February 28, 2009, 5:18 pm
"Don't worry John this is not government subversion as you wish"
---------------------------------------------------------------
Don't be to sure about that Bill. I have seen it done before (unrelated to any aniaml issues) here in the USA Against the Hells Angels M/C. They failed badly I might add. So who knows with some of those Foreign governments!!!!

Saturday February 28, 2009, 6:35 pm

Just got home from work...

As I stated before, this sort of action was NOT done by a true ALF representative. This was done by people who "claim" to be "like" the ALF, or "want" to be "thought of" as being an ALF member, but if an animal or human was harmed because of their actions, then they are NOT "true" ALF members, only copies and poor copies at that.

Whether folks agree with the work that the ALF does or not, don't be confused by imitations. Know what the real ALF is, what they do, and why they do it before you judge them, and especially by a story such as that news cast. See and learn for yourself. This website holds information about the real ALF and the important work they do FOR the animals: http://www.animalliberationfront.com/

LIZ, THANKS FOR THE ADD!! :)

Saturday February 28, 2009, 7:24 pm
Whoever did it, ALF, ALF wannabes, or someone else, they deserve prison. There is no excuse for arson and destroying private property, and thus risking animal or human lives, under the guise of freeing animals that they believe MIGHT be being mistreated.

Saturday February 28, 2009, 9:08 pm

There's a saying, "A little jail time is nothing compared to what lab animals go through" (The poster can be seen on my profile)

For those who are as fed up with the continual human exploitation of animals as I am, and MANY others like me, then we have chosen and support direct action as another means to the end we seek. Like it or not we aren't going away! If you want us to go away then STOP keeping and treating animals as your slaves and puppets!!!

Now, about the ALF imitators... There are copycats out there everywhere. People copy serial killers, they copy Malcolm X, and they copy the ALF. Just because they "copy" what someone else does does NOT make them the original.

I do understand that the "original" was the inspiration for such actions of the copycats, but what the ALF asks is if you want to stand up FOR animals, you should NOT hurt animals. If you want to claim your actions as part of the ALF, then you should become familiar with WHO they are, WHAT they do, HOW they do it, and WHY it is done. Then go out and DO IT and do it right!!

Don't like what I say? Fine. But a little (or a lot) of jail time is NOTHING compared to what humans without a conscience force animals to go through and we won't stop because we can't. Humans won't allow us to stop.

Talking hasn't done the trick. Our lips turned blue 30 years ago! Teaching hasn't worked. Even covert film of torture hasn't made industries and their supporters stop commiting atrocities towards animals. So by god we'll hit 'em in their bank accounts and set the animals free! And we're going to keep hitting their bank accounts and setting the animals free!!! Like it or not!

POWER TO THE LIBERATORS!!!

Have a good evening I'm going to bed.

PS - Is it true what Alex Felsinger stated above?

Sunday March 1, 2009, 8:46 am
Are you sure that you werent there when this happened Bill?? Me thinks he protest too much!!!! You can call the FBI on me Bill--I am an animal activist--I abhor violence to animals. I have taken animals that were abused--from their humans that mistreated them. They dont need to track me down--i will supply them with my address. Perhaps some jail time and a change in your sexual preference would give you a bit less of your God complex.

Sunday March 1, 2009, 9:33 am
I said that I would give the FBI my address. I would never want a freak like you to know how to contact me-----I also have been doing rescue for many years--so what is the big deal with your family doing it? Do you think that makes them special. Many people on the groups on Care2 that I am associated with take rescue animals. Keep patting yourself on the back Bill-if you can reach.

Sunday March 1, 2009, 9:42 am
I apologize for any typos but as you note on my home page I support service dogs, likely because I have one.

Funny thing about that, back in 1994 the ALF ( IMO paid for thru PeTA as well as the FBI ) bombed Michigan State fur lab, they were not too efficent just like this case and were not the Gods they think they are and not in control of fire.

There was an ajacent lab doing ONLY DNA research into illness, the lab was set up to explored ways to remove the live animal as much as possible but work at a genetic level to help disease like MS, ALS and aldzhiemers.

They burnned that lab down too and 10 years of research and hard data was lost, that research may have helped me and many others but the ALF said we were collateral damage to "save the animals"

Sad for the ALF I am not dead yet, sadder for them I am smart and worked in medicine for 30 years and that opened doors to meet many people. Add my Mom just died a horrific death from Aldzhiemers and my father is dieing from lymphatic cancer you can find lots of motivation to stop idiots who throw fired bombs.

I have the patience of Jobe and the tenacity of the Bulldog. I am motivated.

Sunday March 1, 2009, 9:45 am
Worked in medicine for 30 years?? Vivisection research?? Perhaps now we know the real reason for your rabid attacks on animal advocates.

Sunday March 1, 2009, 9:58 am
correct ne typo it is Fountian House and if you wish to learn about something that works and helps:

http://www.fountainhouse.org/

Sunday March 1, 2009, 10:03 am
I would like you all to remember how Judi Bari the earth first coordinator, was falsely accused of carrying the bomb that severely injured her and Darryl Cherney in the early 90s.

The emoting of commentators on care2 is inappropriate, and the emotions aroused and attacks on each other merely diminishes the energy YOU have to help others change for better.

ALF is merely a label, as ELF is, and has no actual structure.
Those who claim their actions are ALF actions do so as private persons. Many youth are frustrated, not knowing WHAT TO DO about the evils of zoos or other animal exploitation.

arson is inappropriate among living things due to the energy and uncertainties of unleashing fire. If you should consider using it, limit it.

Was forest clearing in North America for thousands of years arson?
those who have seen wild fires and been in their paths, comme moi, have seen animals and other beings die, and like you, I would not condone it outside of suv lots or not-yet-occupied developments.

Sunday March 1, 2009, 10:08 am
Point: News comment are not threads. They are comments, perhaps useful for additional information.

thank you! to those who supply information.

If others wish to actively pursue those they choose to hate or vilify, news comment is not the battleground.

Sunday March 1, 2009, 10:32 am
Again Bill you continue to talk about yourself. You are an egomaniac with no boundaries. then contact the RCMP--whatever......... It is amazing that you can get your head through a door--but then again your head is up your ass anyway. I am done with all of this. You iniciated a good thread but then your ego took over. You are exhausting to discuss things with because everyone has to agree with you. You are not worth my time or energy. I am sure you will take this as a victory--that you won--becasue that is what it is all about with you. Go talk to your dog or horse or cow or whoever that cant tell you to shut up, but make sure that they are confined first or they will run away.

Sunday March 1, 2009, 10:34 am
Michael you are absolutely right. I apologize for my participation. I will be signing off this comment now. Again--my apologies.

Sunday March 1, 2009, 11:02 am
grand standing activists attacking grand standing activists -well this time spent certainly helped the animals -didn't it now? first -from within yourself -ACT on the support of peace and non violence -we must be the change we wish to see in this world. second -if you aren't an actual example of peace -then how the heck can you promote it? condescending remarks are useless -unless others pain and frustration is your gain. wake up people!!! and *KUDOS* FOR ALL OF YOU DOING YOUR PERSONAL PART FOR THE ANIMALS IN NEED WITH OUT VIOLENCE, MURDER, OR ILLEGAL DESTRUCTION.

EVERYONE -HAVE A WONDERFUL DAY AND CONTINUE TO BE THE BEST THAT YOU CAN BE -ALL THINGS THAT LIVE AND BREATH ARE WORTH BEING CAREFUL WITH AND RESPECTFUL TOWARDS -THERE ARE OFTEN SEVERAL PATHS THAT LEAD TO THE SAME DESTINATION IF THE HEART IS GOOD AND TRUE.

Monday March 2, 2009, 7:41 am
ALF did not do this terrible act, they DO NOT AND NEVER HAVE harmed any living being, this was done to give aras a bad name, PROPAGANDA!!!!

Monday March 2, 2009, 7:41 am
I really can't (or don't want to) believe this was ALF. But, whoever did this should be prosecuted. Killing these animals was wrong! and those who did this needs to be held accountable whether it was ALF or someone else claiming to be them. What we need to be concerned with is the killing of these birds and the hedgehogs and try and prevent something like this happening again.
Thank you Bill.

Monday March 2, 2009, 2:48 pm
This is absolute perfect timing, another Care2 member submitted the story

http://www.care2.com/news/member/820934955/1066281

The ALF & SHAC top people were.....are your ready.....I many need a drum roll....

Infiltrated bye a Beagle

Please go read this members Times Online article and watch the video of your ALF in action.

Please Note it!!

Monday March 2, 2009, 3:55 pm
thanks bill -this is why you can defend no person, group, or GANG unless you, yourself are a valid witness -if you speak with out knowledge of which you are speaking and are wrong -you are a liar, enabler, and if in a court of law it is perjury, a criminal offense.

Tuesday March 3, 2009, 8:22 pm
I have seen many actions on Youtube whose participants claimed to be the ALF. There is one video in particular that really disturbs me. It is of this young man who goes around busting out windows. I can only "assume" that these are windows of fur shops, meat suppliers, animal testing facilities, or some other haven that exists by torturing animals, but the video doesn't make that known.

He doesn't rescue any animals, he doesn't destroy computers that hold animal torturing information, he doesn't destroy leg-hold traps, he doesn't destroy battery cages or gestation crates, he doesn't destroy puppy or kitten mill cages, he doesn't destroy circus ads or meat ads or veal ads. All he does is go around busting out the windows of places that may or may not be animal abusing businesses.

THIS DUDE IS MOST DEFINITELY NOT A REPRESENTATIVE OF THE ALF!!! Even though he pretends he is.

This is the difference between a real and true ALF representative. It isn't enough to destroy the property so as to halt or thwart further animal abuse. It isn't enough to rescue the animals or at least lessen the suffering. These two things MUST be done in conjunction whenever possible, WITHOUT harming any living beings (we don't even like to hurt mice or insects which may be inside buildings or vehicles).

I could go out and bomb the airport and say I was Al Qaeda but that doesn't make it true. As far as being sorrowful for the birds, that goes without saying. Of course I'm sad that any innocent creature was harmed or killed. But Bill your article wasn't posted in that context anyway. You posted this article to defame the ALF, so naturally I (and obviously many others here) am clarifying this lie.

I still don't see anywhere on an "official" website that the ALF claimed this action.

Wednesday March 4, 2009, 7:26 am
Billye let me tell you a few things about terrorists and terrorism and why the ALF are terrorists. Terrorism is done by cells of people who do so under cover, they do it nameless and then the group claims it. Example you may remember is 9-11, what was this countries reaction to every Muslim and every American who looked like they came from lets say Iraq (?) and be honest.

If you can tell me that after 9-11 the next day you would have gladly flown a plane with Arab "appearing" pasengers and not been unsetteled, your lieing because the nature of terrorism is it places fear where there should be no fear.

In VietNam some of the forces did things like after Army Medics gave vaccines to children, the cut the childrens arms off (not killing them) placed the arms in a pile in the center of the village and burned them.

Why? To achieve terror.

Of course the guy you mentioned "worked" for the ALF, because thats the nature of the invisibel cells, I can be an ALF member go blow up PeTA (an example not a suggestion) and claim it for the ALF and it is then the ALF's work. Period no exceptions.

If the ALF is so caring and so wonderful, then organize, have a membership and when you steal chickens in the name of the ALF, we will put you in jail as a thief which any one who steals anothers property is.

What do you not get that YOU nor anyone else has the right to destroy in the guise of animal rights anymore than a husband has the right to beat his wife because he feels like it and "owns" her. Society stood for that for a very long time, but the law changed what happened if the offense was committed. The LAW changed, husbands still beat wives and wives still try to have them arrested and then drop charges, can't drop charges in most states anymore, someone does a crime someone hurts another someone goes to jail.

I really do ot think your stupid Billye, but your one bull headed woman as we say in the South, you get that demostration does work. You know why I know? Cause you stood outside with only 4 other people and protested what you felt was wrong, foolish as 4 peoples support sounds, you tried an thats the key.

I quake in amazement when you that support the ALF said to the fire bomb done by the ALF to the researchers home that was occupied with his children, was no big deal because no one was hurt. They were lucky because only God and the fire dept control fire, not the ALF. Those people are now in jail under AETA, but thats not what they better worry about thats only 5 years, the attempted murder, arson to a dwelling that is occupied and assult could and will likely give them life in a state (not federal) prison.

I get the passion, I get the end goal but violence hurts the cause and the ALF kills animals, not just these hawks but their violence will deter any legal change to cap species and cap numbers to create a literal open door to make animals stay property as it now is, their will be no open door.

Right now research has taken Chinas offer to build there, almost every big company has built or has plans to open a lab there. Why? It's easy and the companies say clealy this is the reason. China has said there will be no protesters, there will be no harassment of any scientist and they say they have an abundance of animals to use.

Now in the USA, you have groups that oversee research using animals, there are very strict laws, not so in China. In the USA you can place youtube gore videos till your blue in the face to show cruelty, not in China, in the USA you and a few people can protest all day about your belief, not in China.

So what does the ALF accomplish past the pat they give each other how great they are?

1. They kill animals and ecosystems, the mink release that released 3000 mink was tracked, the mink are predators, they destroyed the local ecosystem killing every animsl totaly because of shear numbers released. Over the 3 yr period this was happening, the mink rancher collected the insurance he had on his mink he now had 3000 very hungry mink that were considered wild and more valuable to trap, he traped them and sold the ones that did not starve to death.

2. The ALF is forcing research to a place they can't get to China.

3. The ALF's action is 100% responsible for the fast track of a dead bill called AETA

4. The new President says the ALF will be put in jail for their actions.

5. The ALF's action in California has changed public access laws about researchers, its not public record anymore.

6. The ALF teach arson, tell me any situation where asron is the key. Anything I don;'t care how bizare, tell me a positive thing that comes from arson. Does burning down a McDnalds do anything but harm the franchise owner (nope) does not harm McDolands as a corperation at all, and thats proven thru the history of the ALF and McDonalds has not only grown but last month in this economy they saw a 4% gain. So what the ALF did was no more than a bunch of drunks setting fire to any building.

7. Research animals stolen bye PeTA (one time) and the ALF (many times)were so infected the CDC had to put public alerts and the ALF and PeTA had to kill all the animals, EXCEPT the ALF released some and thank God the animals died before infecting. Have you ever heard of zoonosis Billye?
I suggest you educate yourself and look it up if you do not.

Wake up Billye, if you want to see any change it will only happen with legal change.

Wednesday March 4, 2009, 7:30 am
I wish to correct one typo, the other you can read fine but this i want clear and i left the N off.

I really do not think your stupid Billye,

Wednesday March 4, 2009, 8:46 am
We are now and will continue to work on that legal change. We work diligently and legally every day. But because of the unwillingness to accept that what animal torturers do is wrong, then we have been forced to go a step further.

OK I can accept that the things we do are illegal. I'm not complaining about that part. We know it's illegal, we know we can go to jail if caught, but we also know that we won't sit still and hold signs and sign petitions while the torture goes on.

The lawmakers are on the side of the abusers and refuse to act quickly enough and in many cases not at all. We're just simply taking matters into our own hands, just as the vigilante did in the movie series "Death Wish." Some might think our actions are wrong, but we think it's right and we won't stop until the abuse stops and every cage is empty.

If anyone wants to save animals then yes, lobby your local lawmakers, gather in groups and lobby Washington, hold protests, marches, and literature hand-outs. Create, get signatures, and deliver petitions. Hold news conferences. But if you also want to incorporate direct action, then you need to do your homework first. If you're going to claim to be an ALF rep, then know HOW to be one.

I'm off to work now...

Wednesday March 4, 2009, 8:57 am

I forgot to add that I appreciate that typo repair ;)

Wednesday March 4, 2009, 9:08 am
Sadly Billye you just made my point.

Number one is there is no WE in the ALF they are anonomyous, next you compair yourselves to some "vigilante hero" in a movie, you may wish to seperate the fact movies are for enertainment while the illegal actions of the ALF hurt people and animals and there is no way you can deny that. I promise no one was killed in the movie, it was fake.

Your point makes my statement that it is all ego so clear.

The ALF as a group does nothing legal, they do not support any legal change as a group. Why because they choose to be anonomyous and you can't sign a petition or lobby for change as anonomyous and think it is worth anything as it is not. The ONLY reason people can sign using those features on Care2 and it has potential is Care2 has your email, IP and address that you provided, so if you lie then that signature is also valueless.

Its a simple issue of responsibility, do you expect responsibility and do you respect others rights? Billye if I came to your home in the night and took the birds you have because I did not believe you were truthful in your care of them, is that OK (?). I dare say you would (considering your from the south) put the dog on me or load the shotgun while you called 911 for the cops to arrest me.

No one and I clearly say no one has the right to harm any legal business regardless of belief, the Christian right tried it with abortion clinics and it hurt their movement so much it is very obvious. Now with a new President you see stem cell research, a hope to cure breast cancer and a gift of 10 billion dollars to science, 8.2 billion for research and more for breast cancer. This site support animals in research with the click to donate to end breast cancer, groups like the ASPCA support limited use of live animals in research, are you telling me your right and huge goups like that are wrong?

If so insert the word ego.....

Wednesday March 4, 2009, 9:50 am
sin does not correct sin -it only produces more -until it piles up so high from both sides contributing it explodes -destroying all in its path -the good the bad and the indifferent -and belive me -because of this so called destruction in the name of righteousness(from both sides) -there are far more indifferent that will continue to be so -and the number is growing daily. EVERYTHING that man has done and does is devided into two sides -think about it. it always takes a mediator who is wise yet indifferent to create a workable negotiation both can live with -the sides can't see beyond themselves -even though each individual is ultimately responsible for themselves -they feel empowered by the numbers justifying their WRONGS -really -it's kid shit -and drives intelligent supporters away from the cause -such a pity for the animals.

Wednesday March 4, 2009, 8:15 pm

Bill the difference in your taking my birds and the ALF liberating animals is the "actual" treatment not the "perceived" treatment of the animals in question.

The animals that the ALF liberate are unquestionably involved in gruesome torture with no good means to any sort of end that would benefit humans. As for me..., even if this kind of treatment DID benefit me, I wouldn't want it! Even it could be done, I would no more ask a scientist to cut out a primate's eyes and put them in my head that I would to ask a mother to starve her baby so I could eat. It is totally unacceptable to help one being by hurting another.

There is no doubts whatsoever that the animals that are rescued by the ALF would have endured unspeakable horrors at the hands of their abusers had they not been set free by caring individuals like the ALF.

As for the sabotage..., well..., that DOES work!!! Earlier in this comment section I mentioned a poster that is on my profile, well there is also a quote on my profile that reads; "“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.” It was said by John F. Kennedy. The more the legal system turns a blind eye and deaf ear to our message the more we will take matters into our own hands. Not for our own gain but for what we know is right! We do not defend ourselves, we defend the defenseless. We speak and act for those who cannot speak and act for themselves. We don't choose to operate this way, we are FORCED to by the slow pace of the progression of animal rights and the total and complete dismissal of us and our message. WE'RE NOT GOING AWAY!

We, that is we activist have made so much progress through legal and illegal methods that it cannot be swept under the rug. If you and others don't like the illegal aspect of the ALF then that's fine. Call it like it is, but don't lie about us. No matter what you or anyone else thinks of us, there's simply no refuting accomplishments like the ones below and obtained from a neutral source.

*** Info below found at this link:

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Huntingdon_Life_Sciences

Species & numbers of animals
According to Inside HLS Faq:

Huntingdon Life Sciences is the 3rd largest Contract Research Organization (CRO) in the world and the largest animal testing facility in all of Europe. A CRO is a lab whose business comes from contractual work from other pharmaceutical and chemical companies. They do not develop products or research disease and treatment; they test products. HLS kills approximately 180,000 dogs, cats rats, rabbits, pigs, and primates (marmosets, macaques, and wild-caught baboons) every year in tests for household cleaners, pesticides, weedkillers, cosmetics, food additives and industrial chemicals. These figures were obtained by averaging out the number of animals listed in U.S. Department of Agriculture reports and published reports from other overseers and government regulatory agents, over the past few years. It is estimated that, at any one time, there are 70,000 animals imprisoned at HLS waiting to die. When using dogs, labs, including HLS, often use Beagles as they are very passive and unwilling to bite. Their docile nature decreases resistance to the process of the placement of tubes down their throats, restraining them, etc.

Clients
Corporations which contract test out to Huntingdon Life Sciences include: Bayer, GlaxoSmithKline, Merck, Johnson & Johnson, Pfizer, (Viagra), Bristol-Myers Squibb, Monsanto, Abbott Laboratories, Dow Chemical Company, Sanofi-Aventis, Roche and Johnson & Johnson. [5] An estimated 12,800 animals killed in the process of testing Johnson & Johnson's Splenda.

Confidential documents released after defeat of injunction
In April 2003, the largest ever set of data concerning animal experiments in the United Kingdom was released following a defeat earlier in the month of an 30-month long injunction imposed by drug companies. The documents revealed how primates were used in the search for a solution to the chronic global shortage of human organs for transplant.

Baboons were transported from the African savannahs to die in steel cages the size of toilet cubicles. The documents show that a quarter of the primates died from technical failures. Researchers describe how monkeys and baboons died in fits of vomiting and diarrhea. Symptoms included violent spasms, bloody discharges, grinding teeth and uncontrollable, manic eye movements. Other animals retreated within themselves, lying still in their cages until put of their misery. Baboon W201m died of a stroke after two days of suffering from limb spasms and paralysis. Baboon W205m was sacrificed after 21 days. A genetically modified pig's heart had been attached to the vital arteries within its neck. Researchers noted the heart was swelling way beyond its natural size. Strange yellow fluid was seen seeping from the organ. Others never even made it to HLS, suffering painful deaths en route. Faxes from global wildlife dealers reveal how at least 50 baboons were taken from the African plains for the experiments. In one shipment the creatures spent 34 hours in cramped transport crates - 10 hours longer than approved by the Home Office, which chose not to take any action. In another shipment, three monkeys were found dead with blood oozing from their nostrils at a Paris airport. The animals had not been able to turn and lie down naturally. Many of the 1,274 pages of documents revealed a litany of failings; including a total of at least 520 errors and omissions.

Senate Transcript on eco-terrorism, focusing on HLS issue
According to Dr. Jerry Vlasik's public transcript for an October 10th, 2005 U.S. Senate:

HLS has been infiltrated and exposed 5 times in recent years by journalists, animal rights campaigners and members of the public; each time evidence of animal abuse and staff incompetence has been uncovered. A 1999 inspection of their Occold (UK) facility by the Good Laboratory Practice Monitoring Authority revealed 41 deficiencies, including errors in standard operating procedures, training issues, record keeping, quality assurance, equipment, labeling and facilities. 520 violations of the UK Good Laboratory Practices Act were documented in an expose by the Daily Press (UK) in 2000. They are the only UK laboratory to ever have their license revoked by the government. ...Each of the witnesses that have testified before me have their own financial interests at stake in the continued oppression, torture and murder of non-human animals by HLS.
Dr. Vlasik is a practicing trauma surgeon, former vivisector and Press Officer for the N. American Animal Office. He was also the only activist invited to attend these hearings. A previous hearing in May featured statements from David Martosko of the Center for Consumer Freedom.

Investigations, press coverage, fines & prosecutions
Michelle Rokke (PETA), New Jersey
In September of 1996, Michelle Rokke (PETA) was hired as a lab technician at Huntingdon's New Jersey lab. Wearing glasses with a pinpoint video camera in the bridge, she taped some 50 hours of laboratory activities during the eight months she was employed. In addition, she made some six hours of audiotapes and photocopied 8,000 pages of documents, including a client list.

The U.S. Department of Agriculture fined the New Jersey facility $50,000 for violating a Federal law that regulates the care and treatment of laboratory animals. In the settlement, the company agreed to pay the fine without admitting to the charges. The settlement was the final chapter in a long battle by Huntingdon to defend itself against claims by an animal rights organization that it callously mistreated animals. PETA had asked the USDA to investigate.

Zoe Broughton, England
In 1996 Zoe Broughton secretly filmed while working as a lab tech inside HLS in England.

I followed the whole process; from the puppies' settling-in weeks, through experiments, to the postmortems. As I was leaving, the staff told me my chores for the next morning - not suspecting I would be in the edit suite at Small World Productions instead, assembling evidence of cruelty and incompetence

Its a Dog's Life broadcast & criminal prosecutions in England
(Zoe Broughton)'s documentary, It's A Dog's Life; was broadcast on Channel 4 on 26 March 1997 in England.

At last, I thought; everyone will know what really goes on in the Huntingdon laboratories. I wished I could have seen the faces, and heard the comments of the staff I had worked with as they realised what I had really been doing there. My main worry was that, after the film had gone out, nothing would happen. ...Not so. Three of the laboratory technicians I had filmed were suspended from HLS the day after the broadcast. Two men I had shown hitting and shaking the dogs were arrested at their homes by the local police, and by the autumn had been prosecuted under the Animals Act of 1911. They admitted to charges of 'cruelly terrifying dogs', and were given community service orders and ordered to pay (pounds) 250 costs by magistrates in Peterborough, the first time laboratory technicians have been prosecuted for animal cruelty in this country. My film had shown one technician squirting a syringe of drug into the bin when he could not find the dog's vein, and the overall suggestion was that, as technicians weren't accurately measuring out the chemicals that were being tested, the data could be inaccurate. Some of the companies using this testing laboratory withdrew their contracts and the price of shares in HLS plummeted over the next few months from 121p to 54p, at which level the company asked for the value of the shares to be frozen on the stock market.
On 24 July 1997, Home Office minister George Howarth issued the following written statement to Parliment:

Shortcomings relating to the care, treatment and handling of animals, and delegation of health checking to new staff of undetermined competence, demonstrate that the establishment was not appropriately staffed and that animals were not at all times provided with adequate care.

Shamrock Farm import and quarantine center, UK
In 1998, almost all of the 2,467 macaques used in British laboratories came through Shamrock Farm. It was was owned by Bausch and Lomb (sunglasses, eye wear), and run by Charles River. Shamrock farm closed in 2000 after a 15 month campaign by Save the Shamrock Monkeys. According to Shamfacts, primates imported from Mauritius, the Philippines and China were packed in tiny crates, often too small for them to stand; for as long as two and a half days. After this, up to 300 monkeys were kept in tiny cages inside of dark Portakabins. For up to two months the monkeys were quarantined and examined before being sold for vivisection. Following campaigns on cruel monkey transport on long flights; many airlines and ferry companies refused to transport animals for Shamrock. Customers included: Huntingdon Life Sciences, SmithKline Beecham, GaxoWellcome, Inveresk Clinical Research.

Time line of investigations, testimonies, reports and other evidence
See also [14] and [15] for further reading on investigations, reports, testimonies of former employees, photos and videotapes of HLS. Also for a time line by year of exposures of HLS and HLS breeders. [16]


**** Financial picture
Loss of U.S. backer Stephen's, Inc. in 2002
In October of 2001 Huntingdon unveiled plans to move its domicile to the United States in an attempt to guarantee its backers privacy; while also maintaining operations in the United Kingdom. (The company's market value had plunged to 10 million pounds as investors shunned it's shares.) However, in January 2002 the Arkansas based investment banker, Stephens, Inc; announced plans to sever its connections by the end of the month. According to Stephens; unnamed new investors would buy out its 15.5% equity in HLS and its 22 million pounds (31.72 million dollar) loan. According to Brian Cass, (HLS's chief operating officer who was attacked by baseball bat wielding protestors in 2001); the move would have no impact and that HLS had a confirmed loan through 2006. [17]

**** Stock exchange de-listings, New York and London in 2005, 2002
On September 7, 2005 HLS was due to begin trading on the New York Stock Exchange under the symbol LSR. Moments before trading began (with HLS executives on hand to celebrate) the listing was canceled without comment. Currently HLS stock still trades on the OTC Bulletin Board (OTCBB) under the symbol LSRI. HLS was also delisted from the London Stock Exchange in 2002. Chairman of the Board and CEO Andrew Baker owns 27% of the stock and fronted the company $43 million in June of 2005. However, HLS still reported a $75.9 million debt after the cash infusion. Two of HLS's directors are based in third world countries and shareholders meetings are held secretly in Panama. [18]

**** Stop Huntingdon Animal Cruelty (SHAC)
The most well known group focusing on HLS is Stop Huntingdon Animal Cruelty (SHAC). [19], [20], [21] This campaign was set up in late 1999 and has become an international campaign in more than 18 countries. While some members (like SHAC USA) have incorporated into non-profits, most consider themselves to be only ideologically alligned and have no formal membership, organization, dues, etc. [22]

United Kingdom
Personnel
Executive Chairman, Andrew H. Baker, Chairman
Brian Cass, Director & CEO
Julian T. Griffiths, Finance Director & Secretary


New Jersey
Personnel
Cathy Brower, Human Resources Executive
Henning Jonassen, Group Director, Necropsy Laboratory
Darioush "Dari" Dadgar, Vice President, Analytical Services
Carol Auletta, Sr. Scientific Staff Work


Contact
Woolley Road
Alconbury
Huntingdon
Cambridgeshire PE28 4HS
United Kingdom
Tel: +44 (0) 1480 892 000
Fax: +44 (0) 1480 890 693


Huntingdon Life Sciences Inc.
2360 Mettlers Road
East Millstone, NJ 08875-2360
Phone: 732-873-2550
Fax: 732-873-8513
Web: http://www.huntingdon.com

Thursday March 5, 2009, 6:58 am
You know Billye I admire your passion, I do not admire what you support action wise and aside from the specific example you choose to pick (I could post 1000 times that with positive medical breakthroughs but I will not play the ALF tactic).

It is the perceived treatment because you do not understand what you see.

Perception is what I am talking about, you manipulate it as does PeTA and the ALF. I actually worked a primate lab, a lemur lab in fact, animals were subject to DNA collection, they did not like it anymore than the 1yr old baby in the hospital likes you taking their blood. Had you filmed them or the human baby in a 5 min video as an example of the "TRUTH IN RESEARCH" which is exactly what PeTA and the ALF believe, the lemurs in Madasgar would be closer to being extinct.

You pick and choose to manipulate. You place videos people not educated medically do not understand anymore than the average human understands surgery. I can 100% guarantee you if you ever saw someone have a thorocotomy for lung cancer, you would faint. The human is cut open like a fish in hopes of saving their life, graphic is not the word. It makes what is done in the PeTA videos look like nothing, as much information that is out of contest does.

But your observation would be we should stop all surgery, you have that choice for one person and that's is you. I also want to say I am sorry but I do not believe you when you say you would not have a procedure if that procedure was your only hope, I don't care what animal was used, when you actually face that life verses death decision you will become very humble. One another thread Nancy asked if you were bitten bye a rabid animal would you die or take the shots? Even John said he would take the shots and in that is more truth than can ever be said.

I have seen it too many times to count over 30 years and never seen anyone refuse any procedure due to animals in research, not once. If you were refusing anything gained thru the use of animals in labs, you would have no health care nor prescription plan, why pay for something your not going to use? Want to bet you have health insurance or have had it?

My point is reality and because you perceive something one way does not mean your right, the purpose of the videos PeTA puts out are to manipulate. For example the IAMS video the released was not even an IAMS project, it was filmed at a facility IAMS had used in the past. IAMS research is overseen bye the ASPCA, IAMS does not contract out any research and IAMS has an open door policy to any group or individual that wishes to see what they legal do under law to save animals lives and it has been like that for over 6 years.

What more do you want....which brings us to the real issues that PeTA and the ALF push and that is Veganism along with the concept of "Total animal liberation", that's fools folly and fact is meat is a natural part of our diet and always will be. I don't not support factory farming, never have, I rarely eat fast food, I eat small amounts of meat, I am a local-vore for all my food be it meat dairy or veggie. I do not approve of cosmetic testing, in fact I think cosmetics are a social vanity that if people stopped buying them and just looked the way they look, there would be no problem. I use no cosmetic, not even deodorant I use baking soda or tea tree oil, I use biosafe detergent. I am not going to lie and say I don't use thing like Fabreez, I do because I like how it smells.

It still boils down to one thing, your rights and other human being rights an in that is your problem using John Kennedy's quote, mice and rats are not human beings and I agree as a life form all life is equal, but that included plants, bacteria, virus and anything that can breath, reproduce and eliminate. Its like comparing an apple to a cardboard box, yep they both have fiber....

I am more valuable than a mouse, always have been always will be, unlike PeTA people I do not wish to "live in harmony" with the cockroach (real PeTA site people google PeTA and cockroach read it yourself). PeTA in all it's wisdom gave the "man of the year award" to Dr Nigel Binns, guess what he made? A gas chamber mouse trap that kills with CO gas and then e-mails you you have a dead mouse, I swear that is absolute truth and you can Google it. Now excuse me but death bye CO gas is horrific, it takes about 45 second to 3 mins, you suffocate, have seizures and are racked with intense pain until you die. Sorry I will take the snap trap I don't see coming that breaks my neck in an instant verses hearing the gas enter the chamber, panic sets in as I try to escape, gasping for breath my legs flail and my muscles contort till the pain literally kills me.

But PeTA knew that it supporters who have no medical training would trust them, they would not research what death bye CO gas can do so it was called humane and touched bye the ARA's GOD and made so. Right......

You will never succeed with violence Billye, and sadly if you try you will end up in jail. I honestly like you and would hate to see that purttty face with bars in front of it...but if that's what you wish, your a big girl and it's your choice.

Violence is never the way in animals rights, it works for biker gangs having turf wars, works where countries fight each other but then when we do that we kill each other don't we (?) I have never seen a country attack another country and just kill the non-human animals.

Change works when you change law and if you can't see the huge changes made in the last 50 years your blind, hedonism is just that, hedonism.

Thursday March 5, 2009, 8:24 am
Well Bill--I knew that if you talked long enough you would be caught in a lie. You previously stated that you work in psychiatry. Now you admit that you worked in a "primate lab--Lemur lab"--psychiatry?? Homelessness?? My suggestion would be to give up Billye--this is going nowhere. Until you agree with Bill--you are never going to be heard. Same shit--different day. Your well researched facts are being ignored Billye.HLS and their torture of these animals-that I have seen in videos is atrocious. I would dearly love to see the animals freed. My goal-as I am sure is many other goal as well--is to liberate the animals from this torture--not to kill humans. but I have seen how these "researchers" enjoy their work--sick disgusting excuses for human beings.

Thursday March 5, 2009, 8:35 am
let me correct one typo VERY FOOLISH

Thursday March 5, 2009, 8:39 am
The founding Indenture of Duke University directed the members of the university to "develop our resources, increase our wisdom and promote human happiness." To these ends, the mission of the Duke Lemur Center is to promote research and understanding of prosimians and their natural habitat as a means of advancing the frontiers of knowledge, to contribute to the educational development of future leaders in international scholarship and conservation and to enhance the human condition by stimulating intellectual growth and sustaining global biodiversity. The Duke Lemur Center is funded by the National Science Foundation, Duke University and private donors.

Hope you got gravy with your crow dinner Liz....

Thursday March 5, 2009, 9:25 am

Briefly before I go to work...

No no no, Liz won't be eating any crow. She's right in her feelings about animals. They are not our slaves or servants in any way. They are their own beings and walked this planet ions before the first humanoid ever breathed the first molecule of air. They own us nothing! WE OWE THEM AWE!

Liz, I know this is going no where as far as Bill is concerned. I have had this kind of discussion with him many times before. And he calls me stubborn!LOL

But Bill, I will be joining many other activists and the TN. Humane Assoc. in Nashville on March 10th to lobby our local lawmakers about animals and their rights and welfare. Thought you'd be happy to know that.

Yes I take aspirin and anti-biotics. Yes I went to the doctor when I broke my wrist and got an x-ray and a cast put on. There are certain medicines and procedures that I will take part in, but animal testing should stop now. We no longer need to kill a rabbit to find out if a woman is pregnant. We no longer need to put a canary in a mine to know if there are deadly gasses present. We no longer need to force animals to breathe in cigarette smoke to se if they are dangerous and what nicotine does to our lungs, etc.

Don't have time to say more right now. I'll check back in this evening.

Ta ta!

Thursday March 5, 2009, 10:04 am
Billye I never not once discount the passion, but your so wrong when you imply people other than you don't feel the same about animals as you do.

Have you ever thought how hard it is for a nurse to give a human child an injection, especially the first time. The fear and anxiety of the concept you are going to cause discomfort to a child who does not understand why because you know it will help them.

No scientist WANTS animals in labs, they use anmals because their dedicated to saving life, human and animal life. Why do you give your critters vaccines? The vaccine concept was discovered using animals for human benifit and flowed to give them equal benifit.

We have the same golas Billye, but I don't have the right to harm you or your property to reach those goals and you don't have the right to harm mine.

I have an uncurable disease, very bad one and I am not in any way telling you or anyone else for any sympathy, don;t need it. But you will never take hope away from me and the millions like me, hope is gained thru every venue legally offered. From live model to computers.

We don't kill rabbits to see if anyone is pregnant, they use the same kit you buy at the drugstore and charge yopu 50 times what they pay for it and your belief they use rabbits to discover if your pregnant makes my point even more targeted. We do in utero studies with nicotine not to look at a smokers lung at all, sad you believe that, we do it to study addiction and how it also effects the unborn child, ever seen a baby born to a crac mom?
It's a learning experience I would rather have not had, but I have so for me the "innocent and the voiceless" includes the human baby and what his mothers adiction does to him/her because they sure did not choose it.

I do what I do very well, I am well trained, well educated and well connected; that means absolutely nothing when my water line breaks, means nothing when my computer acts up, means nothing when I ask a vet or vet tech a question about an animal.

Its like music, I can play many instruments (or could before i was robbed bye this illness and lost hand control) and anyone can learn to play the notes I did it well enough to have played at the university level but I was no musician, music comes from the soul of the composer, music is a feeling that compose can gift above the literal notes.

I play medical music well, well enough to understand it and play the music and be a musician. That makes me no better than anyone who does something well I do not do well.

I have seen more people die needlessly in my life that any human should ever have to see, but it was my choice and I will fight till the day I die to give human beings access to regulated, legal research and will help put the people who cloud their view of change more with emotion than fact in jail if their actions cause harm.

Billy you can find anything on the net to support anything, i don't care what it is. What you need to do is read indpendent research, read about the new HIV antimicrobial that appears to stop male to female HIV-AIDS transmission 30%, and yes we have animals to thank for that.

If you use antibiotics you benifit from animal research, I 100% agree we need to stop redundancy, cap numbers, cap species and have said that since day one.

Maybe some day with huge advances in medicine we will not need animals in labs, but to be realistic that will likely never happen. We can slow it down to specific needs over time, but that will be where it ends because to close such a door is unwise.

Violence an aggression got you AETA, it will go downhill from there.

Thursday March 5, 2009, 10:12 am
I am very happy your going to a lobby for animal rights and or welfare as you see it, thats what makes America great and I 100% support you.

That said what your attempting is a legal change, what do you think the response would be if someone, just one person threw a fire bomb or smashed up a car owned bye said lawmaker? Lets say there were 10,000 supporters and one, just one threw the fire bomb yelling supoport the ALF.

Do you think the headline would be 10,000 activists lobby or activists attack? And it will not say one activist, thats how cells work and thats how the real world sees terrorism.

Which one do you think will work? Which approach will help animals?

Thursday March 5, 2009, 7:08 pm
I have figured out why you love to argue and insist that your opinion is correct Bill--YOU THINK YOU ARE GOD.

Thursday March 5, 2009, 8:01 pm

Bill, you asked the question what do I think the response would be if there were 10,000 supporters and one, just one threw the fire bomb yelling supoport the ALF. I don't know what anyone else's response would be, but mine would the same as it is right now.. THAT ISN'T THE ALF! They don't operate that way.

We regret that someone would claim to be an ALF representative when they don't follow our protocol, but we cannot stop them from doing that. All we can do is to clear things up whenever something is done that we know isn't ours.

BTW..., I had a typo earlier. I meant to write about animals; "They owe us nothing! WE OWE THEM AWE!"

Thursday March 5, 2009, 8:01 pm
No Liz you come on a public thread and call me a liar, Care2 has already removed one of your posts where you mask curse words using blank spaces.

Do you really expect that anyone would not respond to being call a liar?

Have no idea what your God referance is about unless it is when you can't attack the information attack the poster.

Again your choice.

Thursday March 5, 2009, 8:06 pm
I feel sure thats is what you would yell Billye, sadly too many homes, businesses, labs and assorted other things have been fire bombe but the ALF.

How does one justify blowing up a Staples truck when the driver is in the store (done 2 times in Calif) because they sell office supplies to HLS?

Whose next? The landscaper, the machine vender, the shipper clerk, the the the...

Violence gifts a community a "tag", most don't want that label.

Thursday March 5, 2009, 8:24 pm

Well at least the driver wasn't in the truck.

Some folks may not agree with blowing up the truck and that's fine. Some folks will agree that as long as the driver wasn't in the truck and that particular company is in cahoots in any way with HLS, then they have to take their chances or else steer clear of HLS.

I'm not saying this action is right wrong or indifferent right now. But what I am saying is that if the ALF did it, then we will accept the blame, claim our mission and PROUDLY proclaim the reason from the highest mountain, and let the chips fall where they may. But when we did NOT do a certain mission, then we will make clear that it wasn't us. The particular news story above was NOT us and that is painfully clear because animals were directly hurt by that sloppy work. Heck, I don't even know what the true mission for that action really was. I think we're being framed!

*yawn*... going to bed now. Will chat more tomorrow moring if I get time.

Ta ta

Friday March 6, 2009, 7:18 am
Amazing. "At least the driver was not in the truck"..."no big deal the fire did not kill anyone"

An somehow that makes sense to you or anyone for that matter?

Maybe you don't understand the fact that the anonomity set up bye the ALF means no matter who claims or denies anything they will get credit.

Billye let me ask you, you said if the person at the demonstration where 10,000 people were lawfully protesting and someone threw a fire bomb yelling ALF your response would be to yell it's not the ALF, my response would have been 911 regardless but in the face of absolute fact, and that fact would be you witness someone throwing a fire bomb in a car (which the ALF do on a regular basis)and the person throwing the bomb, a cell member claims he/she is doing it in the name of the ALF,in front of thousands and TV news you think anyone and I mean anyone would believe your cry of innocence as fact is so far from truth it is scary.

If you can't see that, I am sorry.

Violence done bye the ALF is destroying the fight for legal change. Your killing animals with every aggressive move you make, and you don't care.

Sad really.

Friday March 6, 2009, 7:52 am
Why was the beginning of this news article entitled "Animal Liberation Front Kills Birds in Zoo Arson". I thought that they had not claimed responsibility. That is a serious accusation levelled against someone with no proof. I guess innocent until proven guilty has been ignored in this issue.

Friday March 6, 2009, 8:15 am
Its sure listed on Biteback and that is the ALF.

Since all reports to Biteback are anonomyous then one is equally true and accountable to the ALF as another.

Even I am shocked that this has become drivle to somehow protect an admited illegal group who fired bomb on a whim. This is not the first time the ALF's fire bombs killed animals.

There was a horrific pet store that had been closed down many times, I believe it was in Chicago. It was closed legally and was targeted bye the ALF, paining their windows and the usual.

The health department closed the store and sent people in to remove the animals to, I believe it was the ASPCA, who removed everything but the fish and reptiles as they needed special care like aquariums.

The ALF in all it wisdom decided to take the law into their own hands and as immature logic flows they decided since the store had repeadely been closed only to re-open under a different name or owner to burn it down.

They did.

The boiled alive all the fish, and baked all the reptiles to a crisp.

I don't exactly get how you can say when BiteBack the official ALF site, reports the Turin Italy fire on the day it occured and says they "saved chickens" you can't seem to find that even when I provided the BiteBack URL in a prior post.

Selective blindness.

Friday March 6, 2009, 9:24 am

Again..., I do not see this action listed on Bite Back. Here is what they have listed as recent events:

http://www.directaction.info/



= ARSON = LIBERATION = PICTURES
= PRISONER = SABOTAGE = VANDALISM = VIDEO


March 4, 2009 - UK
TRAPS DESTROYED, SHOOTING PENS TRASHED, BIRD SET FREE

March 3, 2009 - Mexico
GRAFFITI PROTEST AGAINST SLAUGHTER OF DOGS

March 2, 2009 - France
CIRCUS POSTERS TRASHED

March 1, 2009 - USA
VIVISECTOR, MINING EXEC. VISITED AT HOME

February 28, 2009 - Mexico
TELMEX PHONES PAINTED

February 28, 2009 - Mexico
TELMEX PHONES GLUED

February 27, 2009 - USA
POSTAL ANNOYANCE BRIGADE TARGETS VIVISECTORS

February 26, 2009 - Italy
30 CHICKENS REMOVED FROM CAGES

February 25, 2009 - Netherlands
VEHICLES SABOTAGED AT WAGENINGEN UNIV.

February 24, 2009 - Italy
CIRCUS TRUCK DAMAGED IN FIRE

February 24, 2009 - Spain
NEW MAXMARA COLLECTION GREETED WITH A BRICK

February 23, 2009 - Mexico
ELF TORCH EARTH-DESTROYING MACHINES

February 22, 2009 - Italy
FUR FARM RAID - CLAIM OF RESPONSIBILITY

February 21, 2009 - Estonia
FUR STORE COVERED IN RED PAINT

February 20, 2009 - Mexico
FREEDOM FOR TWO HENS

February 20, 2009 - Germany
DIRECT ACTION AGAINST THE FUR TRADE

February 19, 2009 - Mexico
TELMEX PHONES GLUED SHUT

February 19, 2009 - France
GRAFITTI IN SUPPORT OF DAN WADHAM

February 18, 2009 - UK
HOME VISIT FOR ANALYST AT HLS INVESTOR

February 18, 2009 - USA
FAST FOOD RESTAURANT LOCKS GLUED

February 17, 2009 - USA
BOOBY-TRAPPED LETTERS SENT TO VIVISECTORS

February 16, 2009 - Spain
DOG RESCUED FROM ABUSE, IN HONOR OF IMPRISONED ACTIVIST

February 15, 2009 - Italy
THOUSANDS OF MINK FREED FROM CAGES

February 14, 2009 - Mexico
MESSAGE LEFT FOR OWNER OF LEATHER COMPANY

February 14, 2009 - Mexico
FLAMING BARRICADE BLOCKS HIGHWAY

February 13, 2009 - UK
ABUSED HENS RESCUED FROM "FREE RANGE" FARM

February 12, 2009 - Netherlands
VACATIONING ALF VISIT HLS CUSTOMERS

February 12, 2009 - Czech Republic
OPEN RESCUE IN SUPPORT OF SHAC PRISONERS

February 11, 2009 - Italy
MAX MARA SHOP SPRAY-PAINTED

February 11, 2009 - Mexico
TELMEX SABOTAGE CONTINUES

February 10, 2009 - France
CIRCUS ADS COME DOWN

February 9, 2009 - Mexico
GASOLINE SPILLED INSIDE CHICKEN SLAUGHTERHOUSE

February 8, 2009 - Mexico
TELMEX PHONES DAMAGED BY FIRE

February 7, 2009 - Mexico
RIOT AT BULLRING

February 6, 2009 - Mexico
SPECTATORS, POLICE ATTACKED DURING BULLFIGHTING CELEBRATION

February 6, 2009 - USA
UCLA VAN PAINT-STRIPPED

February 6, 2009 - Uruguay
BAYER (HLS CUSTOMER) PAINTED IN SOLIDARITY WITH IMPRISONED ACTIVISTS

February 5, 2009 - USA
SUPPORT MARIE MASON!

February 5, 2009 - Mexico
SHOPS GRAFFITIED

February 5, 2009 - Mexico
FULL COMMUNIQUE RELEASED FROM ELF ACTION AT UNIVERSITY

February 4, 2009 - UK
HOME VISITS FOR TOP BARCLAYS EXECUTIVES

February 3, 2009 - Mexico
NEGLECTED PUPPIES RESCUED

February 2, 2009 - Sweden
WEEKLY ACTIONS TARGETING FUR TRADE, MEAT INDUSTRY & MORE

February 1, 2009 - USA
LAB ANIMAL VET FOLLOWED TO WORK, CAR VANDALIZED

Friday March 6, 2009, 9:51 am
Billye with all due respect, this happened Feb 26 BiteBack has a claim from Italy on Fed 26 that they "saved 30 chickens" from a private "breeder and hunter".

The facility attacked was a private facility.

In Italy.

Connecting the dots is easy for me to see as there were NO other actions listed in Italy and the Zoo was bombed with ALF leaving the signature red spray paint message.

You can't see what you don't wish to see, I did not open a site to list ALF actions, I did not list it.

Denial is not just a river in Egypt.

Friday March 6, 2009, 6:58 pm
HUH???

How does "February 26, 2009 - Italy/30 CHICKENS REMOVED FROM CAGES" translate into "Dozens of birds killed at a private zoo"?????Mmmmm..... that's a new one on me.

And you say I'm the one who don't see things right????

Saturday March 7, 2009, 9:07 am
Bill..I'm afraid you..nor anyone will ever be able to convince those who are with or for ALF to change their minds..
But the good thing here is that laws are getting stronger against these sick and twisted illegal organizations..

Many of us are avid animal lovers..and activists who do a lot of good for animals..and we truly care about their well being..I guess the sad difference is..that "most of us would never harm a human life..or feel we have the right to destroy anyone's property..be it a home or business..

And more importantly..Most of us would never choose an animal over a loved one's medical needs..Even though we hope there soon will be a better way to test for the medical purposes both on humans as well as animals..but until that day..My child..my sister..aunt..brother..uncle..you and I..and many friends.. and so on..their well being will always come first..and so if this is what science must do to help their medical needs so be it..

Some will never get it..nor will they change..and really those that think they are helping the cause for animals are really only hurting them..with so much violence and illegal activities..Testing will not stop..not on animals nor on humans..until there are more cures..and or a better way to find them..

They can threaten..burn..bomb..kidnap or release all the animals they want..They will end up in jail..(hopefully and rightfully so) but still it will not change what must be done..for the time being anyway..

Saturday March 7, 2009, 11:43 am

"...never choose an animal over a loved one's medical needs"

Oh sure..., it's sooo easy for some people to sit inside their comfortable little houses on their comfortable little chairs eating their favorite little foods whenever they want while watching their favorite little television programs and go to sleep in their comfortable little beds each night and then every day hold their egotistical little heads up high while they call themselves "Animal Activists" and in the same breath defend animal abuse. Sheesh! Give me a break!

OK, so you don't have to defend the ALF, but by god don't sit their and defend animal testing and say humans "come first" and still say you're an animal activist! Puhleeze!! YOU are NO animal lover if you say and think that!! Not any of you!! YOU HAVE YOUR FREEDOM TO CHOOSE - ANIMALS DON'T!!!!!!

Saturday March 7, 2009, 12:24 pm
Well Billye..I don't sit too comfortably in a chair..or anywhere for that matter..don't get to eat my favorite foods anymore..don't watch T.V. and haven't slept comfortably in a very long time..Though not quite sure what that has to do with anything..but you seemed so upset at the thought of me being comfortable..I thought I'd reply to assure you that I am not..
I figured that might make you feel better..

In any event..It is not about holding my head up high..it is about living in the real world..Reality sucks sometimes..but all in all..I like to live in reality..

I'm very proud at the many animals I have rescued and or fought for..so yes I am an activist for animals..and just because you say I am not..does not make it the truth..but I am also an advocate for humans..
I believe neither should be harmed or suffer..but again..in reality..sadly both do..

We are all on this Earth..and we all should help one another along the way..I don't owe anyone anything..but if someone were dying and needed an organ that I could spare to save their life..I would hesitate a moment..That goes for a human or an animal..And animals help us in the same way..

Those that have a problem with that..well keep on bombing..start more fires..try to threaten..do harm to property..No problem..Those that do will be dealt with by the law..

And let me be clear as far as any animal or human testing..I abhor and disagree where it is for cosmetics..household crap..or any other rediculous thing..But to save a human life and or an animals life..Absolutely..

Saturday March 7, 2009, 2:14 pm
This was not an ALF action. It was not posted on the ALF website as a legitimate action and would never be. NO ALF action should injure any animal or human. It is a classic 'false flag'' operation obviously carried out for alterior motives and to discredit animal rights. Did the zoo need funds? Hmmm nice insurance payout!

Saturday March 7, 2009, 2:21 pm
Dee well said from a view of truth.

I am laughing so hard and "ALF's" response I am crying. What a joke, some guy is rich enough to build his own private zoo and the ALF fire bombed it. Maybe he is an ALF member covertly building secret zoos all over the world to attack to get money for the ALF.

You want to buy Londen Bridge back ALF?

Saturday March 7, 2009, 2:44 pm
Bill you know how I feel about any of them..ALF..SHAC..ELF..VPSG..they are terrorists..extremists..and do not have a grip on reality..Sad but true..

What I do find funny is how those that do defend and go along with these nuts..come in and say no ALF didn't do it..Were they there..how would they know..Truth is they don't..and I suspect from what some of the defenders for Alf have said here..that even if they did know Alf did it..they would still defend them..

It isn't even worth the effort to discuss it with them..It will never sink in..but those who do harm will be caught and will be jailed..Thank goodness for that..

Sunday March 8, 2009, 10:14 am
Animals ARE NOT PROPERTY. Only sick humans torture and abuse animals. ALF needs to get all of those primates out of the labs and we have got to shut down these slaughterhouses. Once you realize animals have rights, this will make more sense. If these were human beings there would be no question. We have no right to do live animal tests on dogs, pigs or any other species. We just do it because we can dominate them. It sickens me that this is even a conversation among supposedly civilized societies. Sad that we are still so twisted to think we OWN other life forms. Now we bicker over how much torture we are allowed to do them. Good God. Kudos to all of the animal rights activits on this board. If I am ever illegally imprisoned I hope someone will come and try to liberate me. Ask any human being that has been put in a cage and they will tell you that they pray for liberation. Animals however have no voice. So who can help them? Not the viscous dominating apes. We are like the planet of the apes. Watch it and imagine if you were not the dominant species. It's just sick what we do.

Sunday March 8, 2009, 10:28 am
Just because someone claims to be ALF does not mean they are a member. ALF members are vegans, do not eat animals and do not kill them. I think this was some extremeist person who put ALFs name on it. That's my take on it. No one in ALF would harm an animal, otherwise, they do not represent ALF. It goes against the ALFs ideas of animal protection. Lots of poeple would like to discredit the ALF because there is big money in keeping the slaughterhouse and big pharmaceuticals running. No vegan would do this.

Sunday March 8, 2009, 11:21 am
Laurel a few facts.

No one is illegally inprisoned research is legal and to change that you have to change law. Violence againt the legal ststems is the best way in the world to fail.

Animal are property bye law, like it or not and as above the only way to change it is change the law.

Maybe this will make it clearer to you, your driving 62 in a 55 MPH zone and a cop pulls you over, you have 2 choices, negotiage (flirt barter whatever) or spit in his face. Which one do you think will get you the ticket the fastest?

You defend what is wrong which is violence and destruction.

I dispise what you defend and hope everything you approve of action wise happenes to you or your family from someone else whose belief systems is equal to yours in logic.

I applaud the DESIRE and the PASSION but not the Violent ACTION.

I am much more effective than you will ever be.

Sunday March 8, 2009, 11:30 am
Yeh Bill and you would make me laugh too if you were even funny but you're not.
"Violence againt the legal ststems is the best way in the world to fail. "
Oh yeh? Tell that to the suffragettes and the anti-slave movement oh and Nelson Mandela.
"No one is illegally inprisoned research is legal"
Hmmm so was slavery, the holocaust, child labour etc etc. SO is oppression in China and Tibet!!
Get real.
Just because something is legal doesn't make it right. Get a life!

Sunday March 8, 2009, 11:35 am
"I am much more effective than you will ever be. "
In your wildest dreams maybe.
Oh ooops yeh you actually DID make me laugh now.......

Sunday March 8, 2009, 12:07 pm
ALF as far as life forms go biologicly speaking we are all equal, from the great whale, to worm, to human to carrot. That is pretty much were it ends legally.

To believe your comparison to humans who try to free their own species is remotely similar to what the ALF does is ludicris.

You may not be more valuable as an invidvidual life form than a fruitfly, mouse or zebra fish in the scheme of lifes cycle....I am.

Sunday March 8, 2009, 1:31 pm
Animal are property bye law, like it or not and as above the only way to change it is change the law.

Give me the goddamned lock and I'll break it. This law is not law. It is a vilation of rights, just like rape should not be legal but IS legal in some countries. I guess it depends on your tolerance of violence against the innocent. I don't have any tolerance of it and do not consider it a law. If the society is violent and their laws are violent, and take life or imprison illegally (calling it legal, then there is NO law to break. The law itself if a violation of rights.) When enough people break a law, sometimes it will change, if the law is unethical, like owning slaves for instance. So OWNING other life forms is not considered ethical by some and the law is a question. And you can expect the law to be broken as a result. Expect it to be the case until we see "true ethics" for people and animals. As long as we have dominators who take life, torture and illegally imprison and rape-like in some counties, break those bogus laws. They have no merit and put some REAL laws in place to protect life. :) Until then, innocent lives are taken and innocent beings are tortured.

Sunday March 8, 2009, 1:36 pm
It's okay Bill, your values sicken me as well.

Sunday March 8, 2009, 1:48 pm
"Animals ARE NOT PROPERTY"

Yet those here stating that..do in fact have pets..Cats..dogs..chickens..You own them..they belong to you..and you keep them..They are not free..and if anyone tried to take them from you..you would say they are yours..So its okay to "own and confine" them for your own personal reasons..just not for anyone else with reasons that you disagree with..

Um..can we say "hypocrites"

Sunday March 8, 2009, 1:56 pm
"Pet ownership is an absolutely abysmal situation brought about by human manipulation." -- Harpers, Aug. 1988.

Many stand by everything claimed by these idiots..yet..they are owners of pets..I guess it is a pick and choose situation in their foolish fights..

"Nothing else works, and these people are torturing animals to death, and they should be stopped," said Dr. Jerry Vlasak, a press officer with the North American Animal Liberation Press Office. "If they won't stop after using every other [peaceful means], they should be stopped using any means necessary."

This statement from PETA co-founder Alex Pacheco:
"Arson, property destruction, burglary, and threat are ‘acceptable crimes' when used for the animal cause"

Exactly as ALF..ELF..or any of them state..

Anyone who stands behind any organizations and supports that..sadly have taken their love for animals to a point where they have lost their sense of reason.. And..so.. there is no reasoning with them..

There's some sort of twisted logic in threatening death and or violence against a human over a animal..Animal extremists show real ignorance in refusing to consider human health needs..
I consider animal rights extremists as ignorant as ignorance can be.. because like other ideologues with an anti-science agenda..they will..and do lie about science to accomplish their own egotistical goals..They continually say there is no need for animals to be used in research..that animals don't relate valuable information..and or exaggerate claims and examples of abuse to trash scientists as a whole..That is pure ignorance..And nothing could be farther from the truth..

They try to use physical/emotion intimidation..they make threats against scientists..businesses..and people.. and all it does is just makes them that much worse..

Being an animal activist is one thing..but disregarding human life is quite another..When people become so extreme in their fights to save anything..it defeats so much..

And I have to say I have seen so many who are so hateful..and that is really so sad..

Sunday March 8, 2009, 2:40 pm
Yes I am so hateful because I believe in women's rights, children's rights and animal rights. And I don't eat them. I'm a real hater alright. --I'm a danger to other living beings. ahaha
I am okay with people having pets but NOT torturing them, using them for makeup tests, doing live experiments on them, putting them in horrible factory farms and murdering 150 million of them a day because they like teh taste of flesh. I'm a real hater because I have withdrawn ALL of my support from that system. When you stop being part of that violence, you will see it for what it is.
:) When you eat violence every day, how could you see it otherwise? You would have to say they have no rights for if you were to admit it, you might have to look at what you do to them. Have some for pets and have some for dinner. You'd have to look at yourself and admit what you are part of.

Sorry if my desire to free beings who are being tortured is seen as somehow a threat to your lifestyle. Might wanna reconsider just what you're involved in.--Just a suggestion.

I double dog dare you to try to stop eating blood and flesh and you might have a breakthrough. :) I don't have alot of respect for people who murder and meat is murder. And there were some other crazy people like Einstein, DaVinci, St. Francis Assisi, and Gandhi who think people who torture and murder animals are without conscience. I agree with them. None of them believed in it and they were not "crazy". They were highly evolved and aware of the sentience of other species and their capacity to feel and suffer. These highly intelligent pillars of society were NOT involved in the barbarism of the time and said eventually this will be seen for what it is. Torture and murder. :)

The argument we are in now is about basic values and I am so glad I do not have to live with yours. Thank God I am human or I might be on your dinner plate eh. You are not safe for other life forms. Not ALL humans are speciesists. And in fact, these bloody human cannibals are trashing the Earth and do not respect life, otherwise, we would not be having to fight to preserve so many species. The mindset of mankind being the center is outdated and lacks basic awareness of the larger system...which is why we are in such deep sh*t now regarding the ecosystems.

Keep telling yourself you're #1, humans are the best, we can dominate the hell out of everything. Someday we may grow brains and develop compassion. As it stands we still beat children and rape women. Wonder if it has something to do with our barbarism? We eat flesh and then are suprised a human takes a human life. hmmm.
We will be violent as long as animals are still on our dinner plates. We are brutes. You want to stop violence? Try to stop eating blood and flesh. Do I seem hateful to you? You seem very violent to me, advocating killing of innocent beings, imprisoning them and eating them for dinner. Yes it is SO SAD to disregard life.

The great thing about vegans and vegetarians is that all life forms are safe around us. We won't eat you, rape you or torture you for the next new color of lipstick or for a 3 hour hard on---Vigara like we do to the primates...endangered animals! I don't think Gee...I really need that new Gucchi purse made out of animal flesh. That whole system of violence is morally bankrupt. Just stop it and then we'll get out of your face.

Sunday March 8, 2009, 2:52 pm
Hey baby--

If all of these experiments are so "ethical and compassionate", sign up for them yourself. Don't sign up unwilling beings. You have a big heart for humanity, you go under the knife. Go for it. You are so willing to put another being through it. What? You don't want to? Well gee why not?
Because you don't want to be carved up. Well neither do they.

Sunday March 8, 2009, 3:20 pm
You know some truth Laurel your out of control and that alone is total failure.

You say your such a pure "Vegan" I do hope your well informed about our countries money I do believe AZ is still in America.

So you have withdrawn and do not do anything that ends in an animals death, well excpet for the millions killed bye harvesting equipment every year.

In the USA every single bill is sealed with animal glue, every one no exceptions, so every time you spend a bill you condem a part of an animal to your bidding. God forbid you can't possibly use credit cards the petrolium products that rape mother earth, no not a vegan they are pure.

Pure, but to be a vegan and have money you better have a wheelbarow for the coins. That organic market where you buy organic food better not accept paper money either, cause they touched your veggies and you can't wash the stench of meat off anything can you Laurel?

Just smell your hands...

Laurel I will be glad to debate you any anyone else about facts, I will not play your self rightous emotional little tantrum game.

"All life forms are safe around Vegans"...only a very uneducated individual would make such a statement

Pol Pot killed over 1.5 million people 26% of the entire population of Cambodia he was a very strict Vegan.

This happened in the 1970's they even made a movie about it called The Killing Fields.

I guess your going to tell me he was not a "real" Vegan?

Charles Manson...yep sorry Veggie

Hitler...veggie for 16 years...OOOPS

Yep your sure safe around any Vegan.

You will get out of people faces when you grow up and act like a human being who understands what it means to be able to use their brain to change anything; fire bombs and destruction don't come from grey matter.

Tell me again how many fire bombs have Einstein, DaVinci, St. Francis Assisi, and Gandhi thrown adding them all together? They were your examples.

That would prove your point...or does it prove mine?

Sunday March 8, 2009, 3:27 pm
I am..and have been a vegetarian since I am about 8-9 yrs old..And to date..so far I have personally undergone 15 clinical trials..the last 3..I went into them knowing first hand that they would not help me in any way whatsoever...however..I knew they might help someone else ..

And if you truly believed in the rights for human life..you would see things at least from another human's perspective..rather than just your own..

Go to a cancer ward where children die each day..where they are probed and poked..tested on..all in the hopes of saving them..helping them..Those children have more compassion..more understanding..and more hope than the likes of a heartless extremist who sets outs to destroy their hope..their cures..

Do you have a child..and if that child were in need of a cure..would you still put an animal above that child..and if you did that means you hate animals..
Don't you see the warped thinking in this..

I am totally against cruelty to animals..and for those that choose to eat meat/poultry/fish..I would hope theywould not supprt places that do it so inhumanly..same for zoo's pet shops breeders..labs..
I don't believe animals should be tested for anything except for medicine..just as humans are..I think if someone want to wear mascara,,well they themselves should be testing the product..not animals..

It is the extremists who cannot..will not see beyond their own narrow minds..They are so busy being so hateful and so angry that they will never be able to live in some sort of peaceful balance..

People will eat meat..that won't stop..and animals and humans will be a part of medical science and that won't stop..And to think any other way is truly foolish..

Why not instead try to focus on what is really wrong in the world..for both animals and humans..

Olivia Newton John was a strong activist for animals..I can't recall if it was PeTA or another that she was a big part of..And then she had breast cancer..and at that point her perspective changed..Sad that it took such an awful plight to become more rational..but she did..and she stopped supporting the organization..

At least she was not a hypocrite in it..like so many who everyday benefit from medicine..yet tell others they are not an animal lover because they do..

And I'm not your baby..lol..

Sunday March 8, 2009, 3:38 pm
Yeah we can keep dominating...but there's a cost. Yeah maybe we can kill everything and not go to jail, because according to us it's legal.
We don't seem to have any boundary when it comes to being ruthless destroyers!

"Animals raised for food account for 98% of all animal abuse and killing in the world."
"From birth, they are caged & crowded, deprived & drugged, manhandled & mutilated."

90% of the animals humans are consuming live in horrible factory farms where they never go outside, live in crowded conditions and have no quality of life. Almost all of them are slaughtered while fully conscious.

Let's go deeper into our society's ethics:

"Humans are now exploiting 20% more renewable resources than can be replaced each year...It would require the natural resources equivalent to 4 more Planet Earths to sustain the projected 2050 population of 9 billion people."


We are in the largest mass extinction of plant and animal life since the death of the dinosaurs. Humans are the root cause.

World Population Counter...
http://www.poodwaddle.com/worldclock.swf

Every 4 days the population of Dallas or Detroit is added to the Earth and every 3 weeks the population of Los Angeles is added.
Thats 240,000 more people a day added to Earth.

It has taken 3.5 billion years for this biodiversity to evolve. The natural rate of extinction 1 species per year. The present rate is 1 per hour due to human activities.

Every pound of beef requires 5,000+ gallons of water to produce it!
--The Food Revolution and http://www.monolake.org/waterconservation/

70% of ocean fish stocks are “fully exploited”--DEAD or “overfished.”
The world’s oceans have lost over 90% of large predatory fish.
--U.N. Food and Agriculture Organization

More than 75% of the topsoil that existed world-wide when Europeans first colonized America is now gone. It takes, on average, 400 years for a forest to create a foot of topsoil that is capable of sustaining crops.

72 acres of rainforest are destroyed every minute, mostly by impoverished people working for multinational corporations, who are cutting and burning the forest to create agricultural or pasturelands to grow beef for export to the United States.
This 38-million-acres-per-year loss will wipe out the entire world’s rainforest in our children’s lifetimes.

We are in the age of consequences...


Disengage from degradation of life as an act of love and it will improve your consciousness and improve life itself. This horror will exist as long as you give it power.

Convenience, greed and addiction are not worth the suffering they cause. Look into the horror of the world and end it by ending in yourself!

Sunday March 8, 2009, 3:45 pm
and how does throwing a fire bomb help any of that Laurel?

Sunday March 8, 2009, 3:59 pm

There would be so many more advancements in the medical field if they would just quit relying on antiquated animal testing.

Guess who said this:

"I abhor vivisection. It should at least be curbed. Better, it should be abolished. I know of no achievement through vivisection, no scientific discovery, that could not have been obtained without such barbarism and cruelty. The whole thing is evil.”

It was Charles Mayo; founder of the Mayo Clinic.

About the ALF imitators.... If I go out and rob a bank and use the same MO as "Becker the Bank Robber," such as; I wear a red bandana over my face just as he does. I also wear black driving gloves and use a burlap corn meal sack for my loot. I present a note to the teller that reads; "DON'T MAKE ANY FALSE MOVES. PUT THE MONEY IN THE SACK. NO DYE PACKS OR ELSE YOU'RE DEAD." The same kind of note that "Becker the Bank Robber" always written all in caps just as he uses. When I'm through robbing the bank I send a letter to the newspaper saying that I am "Becker the Bank Robber" and I've just robbed the bank. However, the cops know it wasn't really "Becker the Bank Robber" because they know something that isn't common knowledge to the public. They know that the real "Becker the Bank Robber" always wears the same cologne, and the teller said this bank robber wasn't wearing any cologne. Do you think the cops are going to go arrest "Becker the Bank Robber" or not? Well of course not! Because they know it was NOT the one people want them to think it is.

So there! If you didn't do the crime and you're being framed, there's no way in hell that it's right to lay that crime on you. The crime in that news article was NOT a true representative of the ALF like it or not! But don't worry, we'll be out there giving folks more reasons to love and hate us! Only those times the job will be done correctly!

Sunday March 8, 2009, 4:15 pm
What I am saying is I do not believe the ALF did that. ALF members are 100% against killing.

Sunday March 8, 2009, 4:16 pm
It is 100% against our values so no member of actual ALF did this.

Sunday March 8, 2009, 4:26 pm

Oppression of any living being is wrong and there is NO way to justify it.

Sunday March 8, 2009, 4:26 pm

Bill it's the same thing as the slave trade throughout history. Owning slaves was wrong, however most whites thought it was fine because they thought black people were not intelligent enough to be equal with whites, and therefore probably didn't feel the same feelings we did. What was worse was the fact that owning slaves was legal!

There were many illegal actions taken back then in order for some of the slaves to be liberated. There were illegal actions as well as legal actions being taken at the same time. But many people just couldn't wait for the slow pace of the legal system to change and set free the slaves, so many "radicals" took matters into their own hands because they knew it was right. Whatever it took for slaves to be free is what certain people did. Harriet Tubman is right up there with the most extreme of radicals in her day. But today she is held as the hero she should be. However back in those days of the Underground Railroad she was breaking the law and "harming" people by liberating their free laborers. And don't think for a minute that blood was shed because plenty of blood WAS shed in the name of slave liberation.

This is the same feelings as ALF members have. We can't wait and WE WON'T WAIT for the slow pace of the legal system to free the animals and stop the torture! We know we're right!!

Sunday March 8, 2009, 4:48 pm
Billye I love you. :)

Sunday March 8, 2009, 4:52 pm
Charles Mayo died in 1939..

This is 2009..you have heard of progress..no..

Sunday March 8, 2009, 4:54 pm
To answer the question about murder...
Hitler went nuts after being hit by mustard gas...had delusions of being the Messiah.

Manson was strung out on drugs so even his diet could not help him remain balanced and he was a member of a religious cult.

Pol Pot was involved in the Communist Party and the party had some insane values and his ethics did not go from the dinner table outward. He was warped. The only thing he had right was his diet. eh

But the point I love about you bringing this up is how awful murder is.
So what can we learn from this Bill? Don't kill.

ALF is 100% against murder of of humans and animals.
So you're preaching to the choir here.

Sunday March 8, 2009, 5:00 pm
It in no way equates to human slaves and its a slap in the face of those people to make such a comparison.

For anyone to say what they violently do in the guise of animal rights equals or is the same as MLK or any other mentioned on this thread they need a humility lesson. Its ego, look at me I am like a famous person, sadly that does not translate well when you destroy.

If people like you Billye abandoned support of groups like the ALF people would listen much more clearly to your issue and point, verses responding to your threats to control, verses legal change.

What do you honestly think people say about anyone who in this time thinks it is OK to blow up a Staples Truck because they sell paper product to HLS? They say your common criminals and wonder since they are using things discovered thru research with animals...like birth control pills...and they may or may not eat meat....could they be the next target or could anyone who does not follow your instant needs verses legal change?

I am fairly sure the new President will squash the ALF's attempts to deter cancer research so forcefully that the next time you see Josh Harper mocking the word "terrorists" to look like a big man, you will be on cell block D.

Josh is not doing well in prison, sadly. But then what normal person would as is so well pointed out.

Sunday March 8, 2009, 5:03 pm
What I do know is you do believe in murder (of animals) and yet you think what those who framed ALF did was wrong? Curious.

I think you put this BS story up because you want to discredit ALF because you know we DO NOT advocate harming animals. Thats what I really think about this whole discussion.

ALF repeatedly denounces ALL forms of murder (and we live by those values)and you're the one who thinks it's okay and defend murder on several fronts. So I wonder why you put this story on here? What is your purpose?

I know you place the value of property above the rights of animals. We do not.

ALF did not do this. They would not and could not. Whoever did this has no idea of what ALF is and were acting on their own volition.

We hold life as the prime value.-- Life of both humans and animals.

Sunday March 8, 2009, 5:08 pm
On the whole medical aspect in this a quote taken from a doctor who has been dead for 70 years..is nothing short of a joke..

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/REVhistorymedicine.htm

And this is a lie.."ALF is 100% against murder of of humans and animals." They have said over and over they will do whatever it takes..
All anyone has to do is go read their website..

This isn't even a debate..all you both are doing is copy/pasting stuff from a biased website..and or chanting what they say..
Neither one of you can even address the replies made here..with any logic or reason..

Yes Laura murder is awful..and so is the threat to harm by the ALF idiots..Thank goodness the majority does not agree with sicko's..and that is what they are..

Sunday March 8, 2009, 5:13 pm
AlF bombs..cars..homes..businesses..labs..and they set fires..Any idiot who does those things understands the risk to hurt/harm and possibly kill as in murder..and they have said time and time again..they will do what ever it takes..

And you stand behind ALF..so what does that say about you..

The rest of us get it..which is why we don't stand behind such a group..

Yet here you are fighting for them..

Unbelievable..

Sunday March 8, 2009, 5:23 pm
Until they close thos labs yes we will shut the labs down. Believe it.
As long as there is torture and abuse, we will shut them down.

I copy/pasted the information from my page and I got the stats from the UN, US govt., the dept of agriculture...pretty amazing stats, oh and the world census.
So have at it. Good luck on tearing those stats apart. Bias? Hey if mass murdering 150,000 million animals a day bothers you, help stop it.
:) Read it and weep sister.

Sunday March 8, 2009, 5:23 pm
Laurel why don't you respond to what Dee said and I have said, but talk to Dee about human trials and why she is giving others hope and why your taking it.

Go to a Ronald McDonald House and talk to sick kids and their parents, wait till it's you. Just like Billye who when she has an infection, takes anitbiotics, just like John who said bitten bye a rapid dog would take the shots if you took the time to care and invest your time in changing what you can while respecting other humans beings you would garnish respect back.

Any one who can look at the AIDS pandemic and not see the value in research,is a disturbing human being.

ALF the Care2 member says HIV-AIDS is a myth (?) do you believe that too?

She says early detection for breast cancer is a lie it does not do anything, you believe that?

If you do, your a very foolish human being.

Sunday March 8, 2009, 5:27 pm
My dad died of cancer and I am 100% against them draging out his suffering and also against all of the innocent victims killed in the process.

I have gone under the knife for cancer and underwent surgery once without anesthisia. I do not in any way advocate taking one life to save another, even to save my own.

Sunday March 8, 2009, 5:29 pm
Why should Dee "read it and weep" Laurel shes kicking your butt debate wise and point wise.

Violence and destruction are wrong and unless you think it just peachy for your boyfriend or husband to come home every day and beat the crap out of you for something he did not like you did, then your blind to what you say because your advocating beating the crap out of other humans beings because you feel like it as a "right" fighter.

It's wrong and illegal and only criminals do it.

Sunday March 8, 2009, 5:38 pm
I do not 100% agree with every opinion on medicine of every ALF member. I am against using animals for testing. Clearly people are dying of AIDS and a good answer would be to offer birth control and permanent sterilzation to stop this epidemic, if we were to have compasssion. But that would cost money. Not alot of money in it for the big pharmaceuticals.

Call me whatever you like. I do not advocate murder of humans or animals. We get sick and die. I do not think my illness gives me the right to take another life. So that's my belief. I have faced death many times and can say that with a clear conscience.

I do not use drugs or products tested on animals.

I fully expect to die some day of natural causes and to leave room for the people on the planet who are left. I am not so egotistical to think my life is worth more than someone else's.

Sunday March 8, 2009, 5:40 pm
You can't have surgery without benifiting from the animal in research labs and medical training labs they did the surgery on before they did it on you.

My Dad has colorectal and lymphatic cancer, Mom died from Adlzheimers, I have so much metal in me I sparkle. Dee is not any stranger to medical issues either

so whats your point? you totally reaped the advantage of modern medicine and anmals in labs and yes animals died for you to live.

Try thanking them bye fighing for them thru legal and permenant change.

Just like the hawks the ALF killed in Italy and the reptiles they burned to death in Chicage and the mink they killed when they destroyed an ecosystem bye a predator release that wiped it out. They will kill again and we need to stop them before they even have the chance.

Force is all-conquering, but its victories are short-lived. ~Abraham Lincoln

Sunday March 8, 2009, 5:47 pm
Because the stats she's upset about are rock solid from our govt. agencies, not some propaganda.

next...
"It's wrong and illegal and only criminals do it." --yes it's wrong to torture and kill animals in the name of science, cosmetics and everything else.

Also--deal with the fact you are mortal. Murdering might extend your life, but it still does not make it ethical.

I don't believe in beating people up. Maybe you do. I didn't say that you did. And my boyfriend is 100% vegan and against killing. We are sweet as pie to each other. mmmmm He's also hot. mmmmm Hope he reads this post. Love you sweetie!

Hey Bill I have to leave work now. Did as much as I could on muy breaks to help you out while I had the time. Take care and don't kill to many things while I'm gone.
:)

Monday March 9, 2009, 10:45 am
Laurel that you so much and thank your Vegan boyfriend...hysterical as that is.

Monday March 9, 2009, 7:55 pm
Truly a sad thing to post John.

Makes me ashamed for every human individual who ever fought for change thru the law. People like MLK and all the others you speak about are all sheading tears at their failure to teach you the message so you understood it in a practical way.

Sad indeed

Monday March 9, 2009, 8:50 pm

MLK might be shedding tears, but Harriet Tubman sure isn't!

Tuesday March 10, 2009, 6:44 am
Maybe so Billye but Care2 sure knows who promotes violence on this site does it not?

I have the patience of Jobe and those who support the ALF have the impulsivity of a child. If I were a betting man, I would place the bet on slow and steady wins the race.

Obama agrees any my guess is over the next 4 years alot of money will be directed to the Feds to stop the people who want humans to have little things like breast cancer over legal research.

I watched the new Iberia "cruelty" film from HSUS, there was one incidence of cruelty I saw, when the researcher slapped the monkey who tried to bite her, she should be prosocuted. The rest was designed to tug at emotions, and I get that, I get how much we identify.

After we discovered chimps hunt and eat meat as a natural part of their diet and after "actor" chimp ripped the face off some lady the chimp had never been involved with I see how you compaire chimps to humans, they are as vicious as we are in the wild and captive.

We can all pick and choose isolated examples of behavior to make points but is the observation correct? You say the ALF never hurt anything but then produce a list of destruction that if it had been done to you would be horrific, but you say OKEY DOKIE as long as it happens to someone else.

I want to change law, you have never seen me advocate for animals in cosmetic testing and I am totally opposed to animals being used for trials for vanity surgery.

As far as I am concerned you want botox, fine with me but were not going to stick it in an animal first and if your lip or wrinkled face fall off, OOPS sorry. If you want bigger breasts and they slide down your chest, ruptureand rot your body, hey no big deal and no animals was harmed. OH and you can;t sue or get any insurance help to pay for the proceedure because then we all pay for it.

As far as cosmetics, you can't buy a "free from animal testing" product that at some point the ingredient was not tested on an animal, not possible uless your laying cucumbers all over your body and the only reason that did not work in the lab is the critters ate the cumcumbers.

You kid yourself and blind yourself to reality, just like I did not see one Vegan comment that all US foldable currancy is totally covered in horse glue, why would a Vegan not get upset over that...

Why, because just like cosmetics they can convince themselves they don't support it because they buy "cruelty free" so their money dipped in dead horses helps, just like your logic that you take antibiotics to live but you don't want new ones discovered to save other peoples lives because your a self proclaimed hero.

Harriet Tubman was saving her own species.

I doubt Harriet Tubmamn would like you compairing her efforts to save Africian Slaves to a monkey in a research lab, but then if thats how you see black people I guess thats your choice. I see a human being and just like saying you have a "vegan" boyfriend, equates to saying things like "some of my friends are black" I see people, I don't identify people as you and apparently your friends do.

I do know black people are no more compairable to a monkey than white, red or yellow, and vegans as a description of a boyfriend is as ludicris and saying this is my boyfriend the possum eater.

I also know the difference in the life of a fruitfly and a man, and when the ALF blow up a car of a researcher using the fruitfly because of animals in labs which was done at UC, those people are terrorists, they care nothing about anything but themselves.

In fact I doubt any person would, just like how the exploitive PeTA propoganda where PeTA compaired a slaughtered cow to a black man about to be killed bye hanging from the white KKK was shut down bye the NAACP, the reaction was so virulent against PeTA and their arrogance, but it was 100% correct.

Tuesday March 10, 2009, 7:22 am
Animals are not property--disgusting point of view Dee. Animals are not free--they are confined--free? to roam through the streets? confined? to my property for their safety-and constant walks--freedom. If someone came to take my dogs away I would say that they are mine? They are mine--family members--just like if someone came to take my son--I would say that he is mine. I do not own my dogs any more than I own my son--they stay with me by choice-foreign concept to you? My son was "confined" for his best interests also--he had a home-safety-freedom within safety boundaries. Yet the Labs consider their experiments owned--as do you apparently. Sickening.

Tuesday March 10, 2009, 9:35 am
Liz PeTA said in court the "owned" the Ahoskie animals and therefore had the right to kill them. Fact!

All they were convicted of was throwing the animals they killed in the dumpster. The DEA has them under investigation for interstate transport of drugs they had no license to have in NC and illegal use of pesticides to kill animals on the PeTA property.

PeTA declaring ownership of an animal (totally aginst policy) to beat criminal charges...interesting do you not agree? Kind of like the ALF who PeTA supports thinking they can do as they please against the law also.

Policy of convience...

Tuesday March 10, 2009, 12:00 pm
I couldn't edit out the 2 bad words, but figured we are adults here. The point was 2 things
One: There were 4 actions taken in the month of Feb in the USA thats one a week, one so far the first week of March (the one just posted) AETA will have no affect on ALF

Two: what I said might happen because of AETA looks like it just might I'm afraid.

"Makes me ashamed for every human individual who ever fought for change thru the law"

Theres something else. Dr King, as good a man as he was fought for human rights, where humans could speak up for themselves. PEOPLE WILL LISTEN to human rights issues. Lawmakers ,will listen to human rights issues.
Government has no interest at all in stopping the testing done on animals.

Stop testing on animals, you will end ALF forever.

No Dee what's unbelievable is the people who addict monkeys to methamphetamines and other street drugs.

Tuesday March 10, 2009, 12:15 pm
"Animals are not property--disgusting point of view Dee"

Liz..I never said they were "property" Please if you are going to read my posting ..don't misconstrue what I write here..and then use it to personally attack me here..

I never said animals are property..However.. if anyone refers to our pets and us..they will say who are the owners of this animals..no one one say..who are the parents of this animal..because we are not their parents..and even though I do in fact very much view all the pets I have had as much a part of family as family is..and even though I may say most lovingly from my heart to my dog.."come to mommy" I am not his mother..I am his owner..and as his owner..that does give me legal rights..just as it gives you or anyone legal rights..No one can come and take your animals away..
Harper's goal as with many of these extremists..do not even want pet ownership to exist..

"Pet ownership is an absolutely abysmal situation brought about by human manipulation." -- Harpers, Aug. 1988.

And that is who you support..an organization that in itself is very extreme..and wrong..

Tuesday March 10, 2009, 12:33 pm
You want the truth John? You have absolutely no clue what goes on in any lab, period totally because you have never been in one.

If you think finding ways to help human babies born to addicted mothers, is wrong then shame on you because as a human being you can't get much lower than that approach to your own species.

You could have easily edited out the offensive language in what you posted, anyone that types on a computer can do it.

Its not some trick.

You did it because you choose to do it thinking it makes you look important, it's makes me ahamed to even say your a member on this site.

Research will not stop, leagl change and medical advamcement can reduce the need.

The ALF will never stop it with their methods and all the ALF have accomplished in the scheme of things is make laws more harsh and get put in jail.

The person that did the car bomb you so glorify will go to jail and will abandond any family, any children and any life from now on.

You will never be strong enough to tell the world stop testing and say that will stop the ALF because it is a lie, stop testing the ALF will bomb zoos, stop zoos and the ALF will bomb meat markets, stop meat markets and the will go after the lacto-ova veggies and bomb egg production stop eggs and they will go after the pescatarians and bomb the fishemen.

Fact is fact John, do you agree with Zoos, eating meat, wearing leather? I know you don't and i know your feeding a line of untruth to say the ALF will stop, they will stop when their in jail. Fine with me!

John I see the reality and I will do anything in my power to stop it. I've done well so far...

Tuesday March 10, 2009, 12:57 pm
Will never happen Bill. you manetion the same 4 arrest a lot ,well I can bet that there have been 3 times that many people hook up. Bill you have not stopped anything!! 5 ALF actions in as many weeks!!

"You will never be strong enough to tell the world to stop testing"

So we will never get laws changed like you preach! Thanks Bill, Thats the ALF's point and they know it. So why bother to try then if it's not going to happen.

Tuesday March 10, 2009, 1:07 pm
"MLK might be shedding tears, but Harriet Tubman sure isn't! "

To compare wonderful people like MLK..and Harriet Tubman to the likes of ALF/ELF/.PeTA...is really sad..
They fought for human rights..they are hero's..they have earned my respect tenfold..No one should use them here in this situation..as I do not believe for a moment that either one of them..were they alive and here today..would put a rat before a human..nor would they stand in the way for any medical treatment and or research that would save a human life..Because that is what they fought for..Human Life..

Tuesday March 10, 2009, 1:08 pm
I found a way to edit out the bad words so I don't offend any children like I must have in the earlier post. Sorry kids.

March 8, 2009: Animal Liberation Brigade Burns Automobile of UCLA Primate Vivisector

Received anonymously

On Friday night March sixth we burned a vehicle at the home of David Jentsch xxxx Beverly Glen Boulevard in Los Angeles. Jentsch is a peice of human **** who addicts monkeys to methamphetamines and other street drugs at the University of California at Los Angeles. He associates with other peices of human **** like Edythe London who is addicting and experimenting on monkeys. The things you and others like you do to feeling sentient monkeys is so cruel and disgusting we can't believe anyone would be able to live with themselves.
David, here's a message just for you, we will come for you when you least expect it and do a lot more damanage than to your property. Where ever you go and what ever you do we'll be watching you as long as you continue to do your disgusting experiments on monkeys. And a special message for the FBI, the more legit activists you **** with the more it inspires us since wer're the people whom you least suspect and when we hit we hit hard.

I knew this is what was going to happen because of AETA. it will have no affect on them.

Tuesday March 10, 2009, 1:11 pm
"When animal rights activists petition and complain and wave signs around, that's fine, they are within their rights. When they start firebombing researchers cars and homes, putting children at risk and damaging property, they have become nothing but terrorists and criminals."

They will not stop anything..except their own sad and pathetic lives..They will go to jail..one by one..and it is rightfully where they belong..

Tuesday March 10, 2009, 1:16 pm
"I do not believe for a moment that either one of them..were they alive and here today..would put a rat before a human?
-----------------------------------------------------
I like how you only used the rat.

How about Dogs, or rabbits or monkeys?

If there seeing how to get people off drugs, why adict monkeys, why not use a real addict? I'll tell you why, they wouldn't stand for it. Animals can't do that.

Tuesday March 10, 2009, 1:33 pm
Amen, Bill and Dee. Acts of violence do nothing to advance the cause of animal rights, they only serve to disgust rational people who might otherwise support the cause. They can in no way be compared to the non-violent acts of civil disobedience supported by MLK. The only thing these violent acts accomplish is to vent the anger and stroke the egos of the perpetrators, every one of whom belongs in jail.

Tuesday March 10, 2009, 1:35 pm
No John Dogs cats, monkeys non are human as that seems to be your question. If you knew anything at all past what PeTA and the ALF tell you about research you would know we use humans every single day.

I am not supprised you think the post you reposted was wrong because of bad words verses support of illegal activity that is totally terroristic which is against the TOS of this site.

Possibly reposting it in a open news article after it had been remved once will be seen as spitting in the face of Care2, kind of like how the ALF spits in the face of legal change and use violence to destroy.

I think your making my point John.

Tuesday March 10, 2009, 1:39 pm
They will not stop anything..except their own sad and pathetic lives..They will go to jail..one by one..and it is rightfully where they belong..
-------------------------------------------------------------------

They already got one big name say enough and quit his job.

They don't look at it as sad & pathetic lives. They think that way about you who have no commpassion for those animals.
Good grief you act like they arrest one everyday. Like I said before. For every ONE arrested theres TEN more to take there place. So to arrest them one by one means ALF will be around for hundreds of years!

Tuesday March 10, 2009, 1:41 pm
Wrong again Bill. The message I got from care 2 was for the "profanity"

"you would know we use humans every single day"

Ok then why drug monkeys then???

Tuesday March 10, 2009, 1:48 pm
"Hi John,

Please keep the profanity out of the comments and off of the message boards. Thank you!!

After my reply saying sorry.

"nothing personal, but the website accepts members ages 13 and up and one of my jobs is to clear out any profanity. Thank you for understanding"

Tuesday March 10, 2009, 3:11 pm
The sad thing about Bill's arguments is that they are based on the false premise that animal experiments have helped him and his family in some way and might even find a cure for something. Please can he provide us with the HARD evidence of this and not just airy fairy reference to things that owe nothing to animal experiments like surgeons practising on animals. If that were the case then why have 90% of medical schools abandoned live animals in their lessons?
Look hard enough and you see that those claims are based on hearsay.
Vivisection is fraud. I stand by all the claims I've made and you havn't refuted them with anything that proves me wrong.
You say your mum died of alzheimers. What does that prove except that modern medicine did nothing to save her and that all those animals suffered and died for nothing.

Tuesday March 10, 2009, 3:47 pm
ALF your such a fool and my mother did die from Alzheimers plesae respect her death.

You so misinformed 90% of medical schools abandoned one type of test for truma and no other research was stopped. Here are a few of the AAALAC paces animal research is held every day:

What is AAALAC?What is AAALAC?FAQsFAQsHistoryHistoryMissionMissionCouncil on AccreditationCouncil on AccreditationCouncil EmeritiCouncil EmeritiBoardBoardMember OrganizationsMember OrganizationsAd hoc ConsultantsAd hoc ConsultantsApply to become an
ad hoc ConsultantApply to become an
ad hoc ConsultantStaffStaffAAALAC Technician Fellowship AwardAAALAC Technician Fellowship AwardAAALAC FellowsAAALAC FellowsSteps to Earning AccreditationSteps to Earning AccreditationApply for AccreditationApply for AccreditationFees and DeadlinesFees and DeadlinesReference ResourcesReference ResourcesRules of AccreditationRules of AccreditationBenefits of AccreditationBenefits of AccreditationCategories of AccreditationCategories of AccreditationPosition StatementsPosition StatementsBylawsBylawsPoliciesPoliciesThe PSE ProgramThe PSE ProgramApply for a PSEApply for a PSEGo to AAALAC's Education
& Outreach websiteGo to AAALAC's Education
& Outreach websiteGo to webinar registration pageGo to webinar registration pageAvailable from AAALACAvailable from AAALACThe GuideThe GuideReference ResourcesReference ResourcesU.S. RegulationsU.S. RegulationsInternational Regulations & ResourcesInternational Regulations & ResourcesIACUC/Ethics/Animal Care
Committee InformationIACUC/Ethics/Animal Care
Committee InformationStudent InformationStudent InformationInformation for InvestigatorsInformation for InvestigatorsOther LinksOther LinksNews from AAALACNews from AAALACConferences & CalendarConferences & CalendarAAALAC i-briefAAALAC i-briefConnection NewsletterConnection NewsletterDownload AAALAC MaterialsDownload AAALAC Materials













More than 770 organizations, institutions and companies in 29 countries have earned AAALAC accreditation, demonstrating their commitment to responsible animal care and use and good science. This list is updated on an ongoing basis. For a hard copy of this directory, send e-mail to: accredit@aaalac.org.
3M Company


60th Medical Group (AMC)//MDSS/SGSEV, Clinical Investigation Facility


Abbott Laboratories, Abbott Bioresearch Center, Inc.


Abbott Laboratories, Abbott GmbH & Co. KG


Abbott Laboratories


ABC Laboratories, Inc., Analytical Bio-Chemistry (ABC) Laboratories, Inc.


Ace Animals, Inc.


Adolor Corporation


Advinus Therapeutics Pvt. Ltd.


AFRL/HEDV, Air Force Research Laboratory


Agdia, Inc.


Akron General Medical Center, The Kenneth Calhoun Research Laboratory


Albert Einstein Healthcare Network, Albert Einstein Medical Center


Alberta Research Council Inc., ToxTest


Alcon Research, Ltd., Alcon Research, Ltd.-Fort Worth, Texas


Alion Science and Technology, Corporation, Alion Life and Environmental Sciences Operation


Allergan, Inc.


Alpha Genesis, Inc.


Ambrx, Inc.


American Foundation for Biological Research, Biomedical Research Institute


American Preclinical Services, LLC


American Type Culture Collection


Ames Research Center-National Aeronautics and Space Administration, Animal Care Facility


Amgen Inc., AWA R&D


Amgen, Inc., Amgen Massachusetts


Amgen, Inc., ASF R&D


Amgen, Inc., ATO R&D


Amylin Pharmaceuticals, Inc.


AniClin Preclinical Services


AppTec Laboratory Services, LLC, WuXi AppTec, Inc.


Aptuit (Edinburgh) Ltd.


Arizona State University


Arkansas Children's Hospital Research Institute


Armed Forces Institute of Pathology


Armed Forces Radiobiology Research Institute


Astellas Pharma Inc., Kashima Facilities


AstraZeneca Pharmaceuticals LP, AstraZeneca Pharmaceuticals LP, CNS Discovery


AstraZeneca Pharmaceuticals LP, AstraZeneca R&D Boston


Atlanta University Center, Morehouse School of Medicine


Auburn University, College of Veterinary Medicine


AVEO Pharmaceuticals, Inc.


Aves Labs, Inc.


Avista Capital Partners, Lantheus Medical Imaging Inc.


B. Braun Medical, Inc., B. Braun Medical, Inc-Biological Test Center


Baromedical Research Institute, Ltd.


BAS Bioanalytical Systems, Inc., BASi Evansville


BASF Aktiengesellschaft, Experimental Toxicology and Ecology


Battelle Memorial Institute, Battelle Northwest Operations


Battelle Memorial Institute-Columbus Operations


Baxter Healthcare Corporation, Technology Resources


Baxter Innovations GmbH - BioScience, Baxter BioScience


Bayer Corporation, Bayer CropScience LP


Baylor College of Medicine, Baylor College of Medicine and VAMC


Beckman Research Institute - City of Hope National Medical Center, Animal Resources Center


Becton Dickinson Technologies


Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center


BIOCON, Inc.


Bioculture Mauritius Ltd.


BioDuro (Beijing) Co., Ltd.


Biogen Idec, Inc., Biogen Idec, Inc.-Cambridge


Biogen Idec, Inc., Biogen Idec, Inc.-San Diego


BioLASCO Taiwan Co., Ltd., Yi-Lan Breeding Center


Biomedical Research Models, Inc.


BioMerieux, Advanced BioScience Laboratories, Inc.


Biomodels, LLC


BIOQUAL, Inc.


Bio-Quant Inc.


Biotoxtech Co. Ltd.


Boehringer Ingelheim Pharma GmbH & Co. KG


Boehringer Ingelheim Pharmaceuticals, Inc., R&D Animal Resources


Boehringer Ingelheim RCV GmbH & Co. KG


Borgess Medical Center, Borgess Research Institute


Boston University Medical Center


Brandeis University


Bridge Pharmaceuticals, Vital Bridge (China) Inc.


Bridge Pharmaceuticals, Inc., Bridge Laboratories


Bristol-Myers Squibb Co, Research and Development - Hopewell


Bristol-Myers Squibb Co., Research and Development - Mount Vernon


Bristol-Myers Squibb Co., Research and Development - New Brunswick


Bristol-Myers Squibb Co., Research and Development - Princeton


Bristol-Myers Squibb Co., Research and Development - Syracuse


Bristol-Myers Squibb Co., Research and Development - Wallingford


Brookhaven Science Associates, LLC, Brookhaven National Laboratory


Brown University


Buck Institute


Cadila Healthcare Limited, Zydus Research Centre


California Department of Public Health, California Department of Public Health - Richmond Laboratories


California Institute of Technology


California State Polytechnic University, College of Science and College of Letters, Arts and Social Sciences


Caliper Life Sciences, Xenogen Biosciences


Calvert Holdings, Inc. of Cary North Carolina, Calvert Laboratories, Inc.


Cardiovascular Research Foundation, Jack H. Skirball Center for Cardiovascular Research


Caritas St. Elizabeth's Medical Center at Boston


Case Western Reserve University, Case Western Reserve University School of Medicine


Cedars-Sinai Medical Center, Cedars-Sinai Medical Center Burns & Allen Research Institute


Center for Molecular Medicine and Immunology, Garden State Cancer Center


Centers for Disease Control and Prevention


Centocor Research & Development, Inc.


Centro de Investigación y Desarrollo Farmacéutico del Grupo Ferrer


Charles R. Drew University of Medicine and Science


Charles River Laboratories Preclinical Services Montreal Inc.


Charles River Laboratories, Inc., Charles River Laboratories - Arkansas Division


Charles River Laboratories, Inc., Charles River Laboratories - Kingston


Charles River Laboratories, Inc., Charles River Laboratories - Portage


Charles River Laboratories, Inc., Charles River Laboratories - Raleigh


Charles River Laboratories, Inc., Charles River Laboratories - Wilmington


Charles River Laboratories, Inc., Charles River Laboratories, BRF


Charles River Laboratories, Inc., Charles River Laboratories, Inc. - Springborn


Charles River Laboratories, Inc., Charles River Laboratories, Preclinical Services (CRL-MA)


Charles River Laboratories, Inc., Charles River Laboratories, Preclinical Services, Nevada


Charles River Laboratories, Inc., Charles River Laboratories, Preclinical Services, Pennsylvania


Charles River Laboratories, Inc., Charles River Laboratories-Hollister, CA


Charles River Laboratories, Inc., Charles River Laboratories-San Diego


Charlotte-Mecklenburg Hospital Authority, Carolinas Medical Center


Children's Hospital, The Research Institute for Children


Children's Hospital & Research Center Oakland, Children's Hospital Oakland Research Institute


Children's Hospital and Regional Medical Center, Seattle Children's Hospital Research Institute


Children's Hospital Boston


Childrens Hospital Los Angeles, The Saban Research Institute


Children's Hospital of Pittsburgh of the UPMC Health System


Childrens Hospital Research Foundation


Children's Memorial Research Center


Children's Research Institute, Research Animal Facility


Chimp Haven, Inc.


Chinese Academy of Medical Sciences & Peking Union Medical College, Institute of Laboratory Animal Science


Chugai Pharmaceutical Co., Ltd.


CIC bioGUNE, CIC bioGUNE Animal Unit


CIT


Clemson University


Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory


Colorado State University, Colleges of Veterinary Medicine and Biomedical Science, Natural Sciences, and Applied Human Sciences


Columbia University, Columbia University Medical Center


Columbus Childrens Hospital, Inc., Columbus Children's Research Institute


Continuum Health Partners, Inc., St. Luke's-Roosevelt Hospital Center


Cornell University (Ithaca, Geneva, Harford Campuses)


Cornell University Medical College, Weill Medical College of Cornell University


Covance Inc., Covance Laboratories, Harrogate, UK, Ltd.


Covance Laboratories GmbH


Covance Laboratories Inc., Covance Madison


Covance Laboratories, Inc., Covance Laboratories, Inc.-Vienna


Covance Research Products, Inc., Covance Research Products, Inc. - VA


Covance Research Products, Inc., Covance Research Products, Inc.-Michigan


Creighton University


Crown Bioscience, Inc.


CRP-PA, Covance Research Products, Inc.


CRP-TX, Covance Research Products, Inc.


Crucell N.V.


CV Therapeutics, Inc.


Dana-Farber Cancer Institute, Animal Resources Facility


Dartmouth College


DaVinci Biomedical Research Products


Department of Veterans Affairs, Atlanta Veterans Affairs Medical Center


Department of Veterans Affairs, Audie L. Murphy Memorial Veterans Hospital


Department of Veterans Affairs, Bay Pines Veterans Affairs Healthcare System


Department of Veterans Affairs, Central Arkansas Veterans Healthcare System


Department of Veterans Affairs, Clement J. Zablocki Veterans Affairs Medical Center


Department of Veterans Affairs, Coatesville VA Medical Center


Department of Veterans Affairs, Eastern Colorado Healthcare System


Department of Veterans Affairs, Edith Nourse Rogers Memorial Veterans Hospital


Department of Veterans Affairs, Edward Hines, Jr. Veterans Affairs Hospital


Department of Veterans Affairs, G.V. (Sonny) Montgomery VA Medical Center


Department of Veterans Affairs, Greater Los Angeles Healthcare System


Department of Veterans Affairs, Harry S. Truman Memorial Veterans Hospital


Department of Veterans Affairs, Hunter Holmes McGuire Veterans Affairs Medical Center


Department of Veterans Affairs, Huntington Veterans Affairs Medical Center


Department of Veterans Affairs, Iowa City Veterans Affairs Medical Center


Department of Veterans Affairs, Jesse Brown Veterans Affairs Medical Center


Department of Veterans Affairs, Louis Stokes Cleveland Department of Veterans Affairs Medical Center


Department of Veterans Affairs, Louisville Veterans Affairs Medical Center


Department of Veterans Affairs, Memphis Veterans Affairs Medical Center


Department of Veterans Affairs, Minneapolis Veterans Affairs Medical Center


Department of Veterans Affairs, New Jersey Health Care System, Station 561


Department of Veterans Affairs, New York Harbor Healthcare System


Department of Veterans Affairs, New York Harbor Healthcare System - Brooklyn Campus


Department of Veterans Affairs, North Florida/South Georgia Veterans Health System


Department of Veterans Affairs, Northport Veterans Affairs Medical Center


Department of Veterans Affairs, Palo Alto Health Care System


Department of Veterans Affairs, Philadelphia Veterans Affairs Medical Center


Department of Veterans Affairs, Portland Veterans Affairs Medical Center


Department of Veterans Affairs, Providence Veterans Affairs Medical Center


Department of Veterans Affairs, Ralph H. Johnson Veteran Affairs Medical Center


Department of Veterans Affairs, Salt Lake City Health Care System


Department of Veterans Affairs, Samuel S. Stratton VA Medical Center Animal Research


Department of Veterans Affairs, San Francisco Veterans Affairs Medical Center


Department of Veterans Affairs, Sioux Falls Veterans Affairs Medical Center


Department of Veterans Affairs, Syracuse Veterans Affairs Medical Center


Department of Veterans Affairs, Tennessee Valley Healthcare System


Department of Veterans Affairs, VA Loma Linda Healthcare System


Department of Veterans Affairs, VA Long Beach Healthcare System


Department of Veterans Affairs, VA Northern California Health Care System


Department of Veterans Affairs, VA Pittsburgh Healthcare System


Department of Veterans Affairs, VA San Diego Healthcare System


Department of Veterans Affairs, VA Western New York Healthcare System


Department of Veterans Affairs, Veteran Affairs Boston Healthcare System


Department of Veterans Affairs, Veteran Affairs North Texas Health Care System


Department of Veterans Affairs, Veterans Affairs Ann Arbor Healthcare System


Department of Veterans Affairs, Veterans Affairs Connecticut Healthcare System


Department of Veterans Affairs, Veterans Affairs Medical Center


Department of Veterans Affairs, Veterans Affairs Medical Center


Department of Veterans Affairs, Veterans Affairs Medical Center


Department of Veterans Affairs, Veterans Affairs Medical Center


Department of Veterans Affairs, Veterans Affairs Medical Center


Department of Veterans Affairs, Veterans Affairs Medical Center


Department of Veterans Affairs, Veterans Affairs Medical Center


Department of Veterans Affairs, Veterans Affairs Medical Center


Department of Veterans Affairs, Veterans Affairs Puget Sound Health Care System


Department of Veterans Affairs, Washington DC VA Medical Center


Department of Veterans Affairs, William Jennings Bryan Dorn Medical Center


Department of Veterans Affairs, William S. Middleton Memorial Veterans Hospital


Department of Veterans Affairs Medical Center, Charlie Norwood Veterans Affairs Medical Center


Des Moines University-Osteopathic Medical Center


Development Center for Biotechnology


Division of Ortho McNeil Pharmaceutical, Johnson & Johnson Pharmaceutical Research & Development, LLC-La Jolla


Division of Ortho-McNeil Pharmaceutical, Johnson & Johnson Pharmaceutical Research & Development, L.L.C.


Dow Corning Corporation, Health and Environmental Sciences


Drexel University College of Medicine, University Laboratory Animal Resources


Duke University


Dwight D. Eisenhower Army Medical Center, Department of Clinical Investigation


E.I. duPont de Nemours & Co., Haskell Laboratory for Health and Environmental Sciences


East Carolina University


East Tennessee State University


Eastern Virginia Medical School


Edwards Lifesciences LLC


Eli Lilly & Co., Ltd., Lilly Research Center


Eli Lilly and Company


Ellegaard Göttingen Minipigs ApS


Elm Hill Breeding Labs


Emergent BioSolutions, Emergent BioDefense Operations Lansing


Emory University


Emory University, Yerkes National Primate Research Center


Ernest Gallo Clinic and Research Center


Ethicon, Inc.


Ethox International, STS


Eurofins Scientific, Eurofins/Product Safety Laboratoriess


Exelixis, Inc.


Explora BioLabs, Inc.


Ferris State University


Florida A&M University


Florida State University, Laboratory Animal Resources


Fox Chase Cancer Center, Institute for Cancer Research


Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center


Frontier BioMedical, LLC


Fuji Biomedix Co., Ltd., Kobuchisawa Research Laboratories


Geisinger Clinic, Weis Center for Research, Geisinger Clinic


Genentech, Inc.


Genzyme Corporation


Georgetown University


GlaxoSmithKline


GlaxoSmithKline, GlaxoSmithKline R&D S.L.


GlaxoSmithKline Corporation, GlaxoSmithKline Biologicals, Rixensart, Belgium


GlaxoSmithKline Inc.


GlaxoSmithKline Pharmaceuticals plc, GlaxoSmithKline Pharmaceuticals Research & Development UK


GlaxoSmithKline Pharmaceuticals, R&D


GlaxoSmithKline S.p.A.


GTC Biotherapeutics


Guidant, a Boston Scientific Company, Cardiac Rhythm Management


HAMRI Co., Ltd., Testing and Research Laboratories


Harlan, Harlan Laboratories Ltd., Füllinsdorf and Itingen


Harlan Laboratories, Inc, Harlan Laboratories, Inc.- Indianapolis, Indiana


Harlan Laboratories, Inc., Harlan Laboratories, Inc. - Blue Mounds, WI


Harlan Laboratories, Inc., Harlan Laboratories, Inc. - Dublin, Virginia


Harlan Laboratories, Inc., Harlan Laboratories, Inc. - Frederick, MD


Harlan Laboratories, Inc., Harlan Laboratories, Inc. - Haslett, Michigan


Harlan Laboratories, Inc., Harlan Laboratories, Inc. - Somerville, NJ


Harry Pearlman Biomedical Research Institute, Mount Sinai Medical Center


Hartford Hospital


Harvard University, Harvard Medical Area


Harvard University, Harvard University/Faculty of Arts & Sciences


HealthPartners, Inc., HealthPartners Research Foundation


Hematech, Inc.


Hennepin Faculty Associates, Minneapolis Medical Research Foundation


Henry Ford Health System


Hoffmann-La Roche Inc.


Hokkaido University, School of Veterinary Medicine


Hospital for Special Surgery


Howard Hughes Medical Institute, Janelia Farm Research Campus


Howard University, College of Medicine


Huntingdon Life Sciences Group plc, Huntingdon Life Sciences, Ltd.


Huntingdon Life Sciences Inc., Huntingdon Life Sciences, Inc. (PRC)


Huntington Medical Research Institutes


Idaho State University


IIT Research Institute, Life Sciences Operation


Immune Disease Institute


Ina Research Inc., Ina Research Inc., Testing Facility


INA Research Philippines, INARP-LTI and Primate Quality Control Center


Indiana University, School of Dentistry


Indiana University-Purdue University at Indianapolis, Purdue University School of Science


Indiana University-Purdue University at Indianapolis, School of Medicine


INRS-Institute Armand-Frappier, Experimental Biology Centre


Institut d’Investigació Biomedica de Bellvitge (IDIBELL)


Institut de Recherche Pierre Fabre, Centre de Recherche Pierre Fabre


Integrated Laboratory Systems, Inc.


Invitrogen Corporation, BioReliance, Invitrogen BioServices


IRBM-Merck Research Laboratories


Isis Pharmaceuticals, Inc.


ISIS Services, LLC


ITR Laboratories Canada Inc.


Jai Research Foundation


Johnson & Johnson, Ethicon Endo-Surgery, Inc.


Johnson & Johnson, Johnson & Johnson MEDICAL GmbH


Johnson & Johnson, Johnson & Johnson Pharmaceutical Research & Development, LLC


Johnson & Johnson, Johnson & Johnson Pharmaceutical Research and Development, a division of Janssen Pharmaceutica N.V.


Johnson and Johnson, Ortho-Clinical Diagnostics


Joinn Laboratories


Kansas State University, College of Veterinary Medicine and College of Human Ecology


Kent SeaTech Corporation


Kent State University, College of Arts and Sciences


Korea Food and Drug Administration


Korea Institute of Toxicology


Kunming Primate Research Center, Chinese Academy of Sciences


LAB Research Inc., LAB International Research Center Hungary Ltd.


LAB Research Inc., LAB Research Inc. - Canada


LaJolla Institute for Allergy and Immunology


Lake Immunogenics, Inc.


Lampire Biological Laboratories, Inc.


Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory


Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory


Legacy Clinical Research and Technology Center, Legacy Health System


Level Biotechnology Inc.


Lexicon Pharmaceuticals, Inc.


Liberty Research, Inc.


Lifespan, The Rhode Island and Miriam Hospitals


Loma Linda University


Lonza Group Ltd., Lonza Walkersville, Inc.


Los Alamos National Security, LLC, Los Alamos National Laboratory


Los Angeles Biomedical Research Institute at Harbor-UCLA Medical Center, Los Angeles Biomedical Research Institute at Harbor-UCLA Medical Center (LA BioMed)


Louisiana State University, Louisiana State University Health Sciences Center


Louisiana State University, School of Veterinary Medicine


Louisiana State University Agricultural Center, Louisiana Agricultural Experiment Station, Reproductive Biology Center


Louisiana State University Health Sciences Center


Louisiana State University System, Pennington Biomedical Research Center


Lovelace Respiratory Research Institute


Loyola University Chicago, Stritch School of Medicine


LyChron, LyChron, LLC


M. D. Anderson Cancer Center Orlando, Cancer Research Institute


Maccine Pte Ltd


Maccine Pte Ltd, PT Mac Fauna


Madigan Army Medical Center, Department of Clinical Investigation


Magee-Womens Research Institute


Maimonides Medical Center, Division of Surgical Research


Maine Medical Center, Maine Medical Center Research Institute


MannKind Corporation


Marquette University


Marshall University Joan C. Edwards School of Medicine, Animal Resource Facility


Massachusetts College of Pharmacy and Health Sciences


Massachusetts Institute of Technology


Mayo Foundation, Mayo Clinic Jacksonville


Mayo Foundation, Mayo Clinic Rochester


Mayo Foundation, Mayo Clinic Scottsdale


MB Research Laboratories


McLaughlin Research Institute for Biomedical Sciences, Inc.


MDS Pharma Services Lyon-France, MDS Pharma Services


Medarex, Inc.


Medical College of Georgia


Medical College of Wisconsin


Medical University of South Carolina


MedImmune Vaccines, Inc.


MedImmune, Inc.


Medine Sugar Estates, Biodia Co. Ltd.


MedStar Health, MedStar Research Institute


Medtronic, Inc., Physiological Research Laboratories


Meharry Medical College


Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center


Memory Pharmaceuticals Corporation


Merck & Co., Inc., Banyu Pharmaceutical Co., Ltd.


Merck & Co., Inc., Merck Research Laboratories - Boston


Merck & Co., Inc., Sirna Therapeutics, Inc.


Merck & Company, Inc., Laboratoires Merck Sharp and Dohme-Chibret


Merck and Company, Inc., Merck Research Laboratories


Merck and Company, Inc., Merck Research Laboratories-West Point


Merck Frosst Canada & Co., Merck Frosst Centre for Therapeutic Research


Michael Reese Hospital and Medical Center, Michael Reese Hospital


Michigan State University, Colleges of Natural Science, Social Science, Human Medicine, Osteopathic Medicine and Engineering, Veterinary Medicine and Agricultural and Natural Resources


Middlebury College


Midwest Research Institute


Midwest Veterinary Services, Inc., Central States Research Centre, Inc.


Midwestern University


Millbrook ImmunoServ


Mispro Biotech Services Inc.


Mississippi State University, College of Arts and Sciences


Mississippi State University, College of Veterinary Medicine


Model Animal Research Center of Nanjing University


Molecular Diagnostic Services, Inc., Rabbit and Rodent Diagnostic Associates


Momenta Pharmaceuticals, Inc.


Montana State University, College of Letters and Science


MPI Research


NAMSA-California Division


NAMSA-Ohio Division


Nanospectra Biosciences, Inc.


NASA John F. Kennedy Space Center, Space Life Sciences Laboratory


National Aeronautics and Space Administration, LB Johnson Space Center Animal Care Facility


National Applied Research Laboratories, National Laboratory Animal Center


National Cancer Institute, National Cancer Institute-Frederick


National Chengdu Center for Safety Evaluation of Drugs/WestChina-Frontier Pharmatech Co.


National Defense Medical Center, NDMC-Laboratory Animal Center


National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health, Health Effects Laboratory Division


National Institute for the Control of Pharmaceutical and Biological Products, National Center for Safety Evaluation of Drugs


National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences


National Institutes of Health, Alamogordo Primate Facility


National Institutes of Health-National Institute on Aging, Gerontology Research Center


National Institutes of Health-National Institute on Drug Abuse, Intramural Research Program


National Jewish Health


National Shanghai Center for New Drug Safety Evaluation Research


Naval Medical Research Center, Naval Medical Research Center Detachment-Peru


Naval Medical Research Center, U.S. Naval Medical Research Unit #3


Naval Medical Research Center, U.S. Naval Medical Research Unit No. 2 (NAMRU-2)


Nebraska-Western Iowa Health Care System


Nevada Cancer Institute


New Mexico Veterans Affairs Health Care System


New York Blood Center, Lindsley F. Kimbell Research Institute, New York Blood Center


New York Medical College, New York Medical College-Department of Comparative Medicine


New York State Department of Health, Wadsworth Center


New York State Psychiatric Institute


New York University, The Mount Sinai School of Medicine


New York University School of Medicine


NIH/National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases - Morgan Island


NIH/National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, Rocky Mountain Laboratories


North Carolina State University, College of Veterinary Medicine


Northeastern Ohio Universities College of Medicine


Northeastern University


NorthShore University HealthSystem, NorthShore University HealthSystem Research Institute


Northwestern University


Norwegian School of Veterinary Science, Alestrom Zebrafish Lab


Norwegian School of Veterinary Science, Laboratory Animal Unit


Novartis Corporation, Novartis Vaccines and Diagnostics, Inc.


Novartis Pharmaceuticals Corporation


Novartis Vaccines and Diagnostics GmbH & Co. KG, Novartis Behring


Noveprim Ltd., Noveprim Ltd. (includes Les Campêches Ltd. and Chamouny Farming Ltd.)


Nucro-Technics


Oak Ridge National Laboratory


Ochsner Clinic Foundation


Ohio University


Oklahoma Medical Research Foundation


Oregon Health and Science University


Oregon Health Sciences University, Oregon National Primate Research Center


OSI Pharmaceuticals, Inc.


Pacific BioLabs, Inc.


Pacific Northwest Research Institute


Palo Alto Medical Foundation, Research Institute


PDL BioPharma, Inc.


Peking University, Institute of Molecular Medicine


Perry Scientific, Inc.


Pfizer Global Research & Development


Pfizer Global Research and Development, Pfizer Global Manufacturing, Lincoln, Nebraska


Pfizer Inc., Pfizer Animal Health, Veterinary Medicine Research and Development


Pfizer Inc., Pfizer Canada Inc., Vaccines Research Ottawa


Pfizer, Inc., Pfizer Animal Health


Pfizer, Inc., Pfizer Global Research & Development, La Jolla


Pfizer, Inc., Pfizer Global Research and Development, Groton


Pfizer, Inc., Pfizer Global Research and Development, St. Louis


Phenomix Corporation


Philip Morris International, Philip Morris Research Laboratories bvba


Pine Acre Rabbitry/Farm


Pocono Rabbit Farm and Laboratory, Inc.


Pomona College


Portola Pharmaceuticals, Inc.


PPD, Inc., Piedmont Research Center


PreClinOmics, Inc.


Primate Foundation of Arizona


Primate Products, Inc.


Primate Research Center at Bogor Agricultural University, Research Animal Facility - Lodaya


Princeton University


Priority One Services, Division of Life Sciences


Public Health Service, Department of Health and Human Services, NIH Intramural Research Program


Purdue University, Indiana University/Purdue University-Ft. Wayne


Purdue University


QPS, L.L.C.


Renovis, Inc.


Research Triangle Institute, Research Triangle Institute (RTI International)


Ricerca Biosciences, LLC, Toxicology and Metabolism and Pharmacokinetics


Roche Holding Ltd., Roche Pharma Basel


Roche Palo Alto, LLC


Rosalind Franklin University of Medicine and Science


Roswell Park Cancer Institute Corporation


Rush University Medical Center


Russian Academy of Sciences, Animal Breeding Facility-Branch of Shemyakin & Ovchinnikov Institute of Bioorganic Chemistry


Russian Academy of Sciences, Biological Testing Laboratory-Branch of Shemyakin & Ovchinnikov Institute of Bioorganic Chemistry


Rutgers, The State University of New Jersey


Saint Joseph's Health System, Saint Joseph's Translational Research Institute, Inc.


Saint Louis University, Saint Louis University School of Medicine


Samsung Medical Center, Samsung Biomedical Research Institute


sanofi pasteur


sanofi-aventis, sanofi-aventis Deutschland GmbH, Industry Park


sanofi-aventis, sanofi-aventis Deutschland GmbH, Kastengrund


sanofi-aventis, sanofi-aventis recherche & développement


sanofi-aventis, sanofi-aventis, Alfortville, France


sanofi-aventis, sanofi-aventis, Alnwick, England


sanofi-aventis, sanofi-aventis, Bridgewater, New Jersey


sanofi-aventis, sanofi-aventis, Great Valley, Pennsylvania


sanofi-aventis, sanofi-aventis, Vitry, France


sanofi-aventis Science & Medical Affairs, LASW, CHINOIN Pharmaceutical and Chemical Works Private Co. Ltd.


Schering-Plough Corporation, Schering-Plough Research Institute


Schering-Plough Corporation, Schering-Plough Research Institute


Scott and White Memorial Hospital


Scripps Institutions of Medicine and Science, The Scripps Research Institute


Seoul National University Hospital, Clinical Research Institute


Sequani Limited


Shenyang Research Institute of Chemical Industry, Safety Evaluation Center


Shriners Hospitals for Children, Shriners Burns Hospital-Cincinnati


SICONBREC, Inc.


Siemens Healthcare Diagnostics, Inc.


Simonsen Laboratories, Inc.


Sinclair Group, LLC, Sinclair Research Center, LLC; Sinclair BioResources, LLC; Pet Food Solution, Inc.


Singapore Health Services Pte Ltd, SingHealth Experimental Medicine Center


Smith College


SNBL USA, Ltd.


Southern Arizona Veterans Affairs Health Care System


Southern Illinois University, Graduate School


Southern Illinois University, School of Medicine


Southern Research Institute, Southern Research Institute-Birmingham, AL and Frederick, MD


Southwest Foundation for Biomedical Research


Space and Naval Systems Center (SSC San Diego)


Spring Valley Laboratories, Inc.


SRI International


St. John's University


St. Joseph's Hospital and Medical Center


St. Jude Children's Research Hospital


Stanford University


State University of New York, Downstate Medical Center


State University of New York, Stony Brook University


State University of New York, SUNY Upstate Medical University


State University of New York at Buffalo


State University of New York-Binghamton University, Binghamton University


Stellenbosch University, Central Research Facility


StemCells, Inc.


Stowers Institute for Medical Research


Strategic Diagnostics Inc., Strategic BioSolutions


Strategic Diagnostics Inc., Strategic BioSolutions


Summa Health System, Falor Division of Surgical Research


Sun Health Research Institute


Sungkyunkwan University, Sungkyunkwan University School of Medicine


Surpass, Inc.


Sutter Health System, Sutter Institute for Medical Research


Synecor Labs


Syracuse University


Taconic Europe A/S


Taconic Farms, Inc.


Taconic Farms, Inc., Taconic Indiana


Taconic Farms, Inc., Taconic Rockville


Taconic Farms, Inc., Taconic West Coast Operations


Takeda Pharmaceutical Company Limited, Millennium the Takeda Oncology Company


Talecris Biotherapeutics


Temple University, Health Science Center


Texas A&M University, Colleges of Veterinary Medicine, Science, and Liberal Arts


Texas A&M University System, Health Science Center College of Medicine


Texas A&M University System Health Science Center, Albert B. Alkek Institute of Biosciences and Technology


Texas Heart Institute


Texas Tech University


Texas Tech University Health Sciences Center


Texas Tech University Health Sciences Center at Amarillo


TGA Sciences, Inc.


The ADMET Group, SITEK Research Laboratories


The American Red Cross, The Jerome H. Holland Laboratory for the Biomedical Sciences


The Burnham Institute for Medical Research


The Children's Hospital of Philadelphia, Joseph Stokes, Jr. Research Institute


The Cleveland Clinic Foundation, Lerner Research Institute


The Dow Chemical Company, Toxicology & Environmental Research and Consulting Laboratory


The Feinstein Institute for Medical Research


The Forsyth Institute


The General Hospital Corporation, Massachusetts General Hospital


The George Washington University


The Hamner Institutes for Health Sciences


The Jackson Laboratory


The Jackson Laboratory (JAX West), The Jackson Laboratory at UC-Davis (JAX West)


The Johns Hopkins University


The Lankenau Institute for Medical Research


The Mannheimer Foundation, Inc.


The Mary Imogene Bassett Hospital, The Mary Imogene Bassett Research Institute


The Ohio State University, University Laboratory Animal Care Program and Facilities


The Pennsylvania State University, Milton S. Hershey Medical Center


The Pennsylvania State University-University Park, The Pennsylvania State University


The Procter and Gamble Company, Miami Valley Innovation Center and Mason Business Center


The Research and Education Institute for Texas Health Resources


The Rockefeller University


The Rogosin Institute, The Rogosin Institute - Xenia Division


The Roskamp Institute


The Salk Institute for Biological Studies


The Scripps Research Institute, The Scripps Research Institute, Florida


The University of Alabama


The University of Alabama at Birmingham and VAMC


The University of Arizona


The University of Chicago


The University of Georgia, University Research Animal Resources


The University of Hong Kong, Laboratory Animal Unit, Li Ka Shing Faculty of Medicine


The University of Illinois at Chicago


The University of Kansas


The University of Montana


The University of Pennsylvania, The University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine


The University of Tennessee


The University of Tennessee Health Science Center


The University of Texas, M.D. Anderson Cancer Center


The University of Texas at Austin


The University of Texas Health Science Center at Houston, Center for Laboratory Animal Medicine and Care


The University of Texas Health Science Center at San Antonio


The Wistar Institute


Therapeutic Systems Research Laboratories, Inc.


Theravance, Inc.


Thomas D. Morris, Inc.


Thomas Jefferson University


Toxikon Corporation


Trans Ova Genetics, Genetic Advancement Center


Tripler Army Medical Center


Trudeau Institute, Inc.


Tufts University, Tufts Cummings School of Veterinary Medicine


Tufts University, Tufts University Health Science Campus and Tufts-New England Medical Center


Tulane University, Tulane National Primate Research Center


Tulane University, Tulane University Uptown Vivarium


Tulane University Health Sciences Center, School of Medicine


Tycohealthcare Group LP (DBA-Covidien)


U.S. Air Force Academy, Dean of Faculty


U.S. Air Force Keesler Medical Center, Clinical Research Laboratory


U.S. Air Force Wilford Hall Medical Center, Clinical Research Squadron


U.S. Army Center for Environmental Health Research


U.S. Army Center for Health Promotion and Preventive Medicine


U.S. Army Dugway Proving Ground, Life Sciences Division/West Desert Test Center


U.S. Army Institute of Surgical Research/Brooke Army Medical Center


U.S. Army Medical Research and Material Command, U.S. Army Medical Research Institute of Infectious Diseases


U.S. Army Medical Research Institute of Chemical Defense


U.S. Army Research Institute of Environmental Medicine


U.S. Army, Academy of Health Sciences, U.S. Army Medical Department Center and School


U.S. Department of Agriculture, National Veterinary Services Laboratories/Center for Veterinary Biologics


U.S. Department of Agriculture at Tufts University, The Jean Mayer USDA Human Nutrition Research Center on Aging


U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, Andrew W. Briedenbach Environmental Research Center


U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, National Health and Environmental Effects Research Laboratory


U.S. Food and Drug Administration, Center for Biologics Evaluation & Research, Division of Veterinary Sciences


U.S. Food and Drug Administration, Center for Food Safety and Applied Nutrition


U.S. Food and Drug Administration, National Center for Toxicological Research


U.S. Food and Drug Administration, White Oak Animal Program


U.S. Naval Medical Center-Portsmouth, Clinical Investigation and Research Department


U.S. Navy, Naval Medical Center-San Diego


Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences


Union University, The Albany Medical College


University of Arkansas at Little Rock


University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences


University of California, Santa Cruz


University of California-Berkeley


University of California-Davis


University of California-Irvine, University Laboratory Animal Resources


University of California-Los Angeles, Division of Laboratory Animal Medicine


University of California-Riverside


University of California-San Diego


University of California-San Francisco


University of Cincinnati


University of Colorado at Denver and Health Sciences Center


University of Connecticut Health Center


University of Florida, J. Hillis Miller Health Science Center


University of Houston


University of Illinois at Chicago, College of Medicine at Rockford


University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign


University of Iowa


University of Kansas, The University of Kansas Medical Center


University of Kentucky, University of Kentucky Albert B. Chandler Medical Center


University of Louisiana at Lafayette, New Iberia Research Center


University of Louisville


University of Maine System, College of Engineering, University of Maine


University of Maryland at Baltimore, Dental School


University of Maryland at Baltimore, School of Medicine, Institute of Human Virology and VAMC


University of Maryland at Baltimore, School of Pharmacy


University of Massachusetts Medical School


University of Medicine and Dentistry of New Jersey, New Jersey Medical School


University of Medicine and Dentistry of New Jersey, Robert Wood Johnson Medical School


University of Medicine and Dentistry of New Jersey, School of Osteopathic Medicine


University of Miami


University of Michigan


University of Minnesota


University of Mississippi, University of Mississippi Medical Center


University of Missouri-Columbia, School of Medicine, Dalton Cardiovascular Center, Colleges of Arts and Science and Veterinary Medicine, and Bond Life Sciences Center


University of Missouri-Kansas City


University of Missouri-St. Louis


University of Nebraska at Omaha


University of Nebraska Medical Center


University of Nevada, Reno


University of Nevada-Las Vegas


University of New Mexico, The University of New Mexico Health Sciences Center


University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill


University of North Carolina at Charlotte


University of North Dakota Center for Biomedical Research, School of Medicine


University of North Texas Health Science Center


University of Notre Dame, Freimann Life Science Center and Satellite


University of Oklahoma Health Sciences Center


University of Oregon


University of Pittsburgh, Commonwealth System of Higher Education


University of Puerto Rico, Medical Sciences Campus, Caribbean Primate Research Center


University of Puerto Rico, Medical Sciences Campus


University of Rochester, School of Medicine and Dentistry


University of South Alabama, College of Medicine


University of South Carolina-Columbia, School of Medicine


University of South Florida, James A. Haley Veterans Hospital, H. Lee Moffitt Cancer Center and Research Institute and The Johnnie B. Byrd, Sr. Alzheimer’s Center and Research Institute


University of Southern California


University of Texas M.D. Anderson Cancer Center, Michale E. Keeling Center for Comparative Medicine and Research


University of Texas M.D. Anderson Cancer Center, Science Park Research Division, Department of Carcinogenesis


University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center at Dallas


University of Texas Systems, University of Texas Medical Branch-Galveston


University of the Sciences in Philadelphia


University of Toledo, University of Toledo Health Science Campus


University of Utah, Health Sciences Center and College of Social and Behavioral Sciences


University of Vermont


University of Virginia


University of Washington


University of Wisconsin - Madison, School of Veterinary Medicine


University of Wisconsin - Oshkosh College of Letters and Science


University of Wisconsin System, University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee


University of Wisconsin-La Crosse, College of Science and Health


University of Wisconsin-Madison, College of Agricultural and Life Sciences


University of Wisconsin-Madison, Graduate School


University of Wisconsin-Madison, University of Wisconsin School of Medicine and Public Health


USDA Agricultural Research Service, Beltsville Human Nutrition Research Center


Utah State University, College of Science


Utrecht University, Central Laboratory Animal Institute


Valley Biosystems


Van Andel Institute, Van Andel Research Institute


Vanderbilt University


Virginia Commonwealth University


Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University, Virginia-Maryland Regional College of Veterinary Medicine and Marion DuPont Scott Equine Medical Center


Wake Forest University, Wake Forest University School of Medicine


Walter Reed Army Institute of Research, U.S. Army Medical Component-Armed Forces Research Institute of Medical Sciences


Walter Reed Army Institute of Research and Naval Medical Research Center


Washington State University


Washington University School of Medicine & Wash University Danforth Campus


Wayne State University and John D. Dingell VA Medical Center


Weizmann Institute, Weizmann Institute of Science


Wellesley College


Wichita State University, Department of Biological Sciences


WIL Research Holding Company, Inc., WIL Research Laboratories, LLC


William Beaumont Army Medical Center, Biological Research Service


William Beaumont Hospital Research Institute


Wincon TheraCells Biotechnologies Co., Ltd.


Winthrop University Hospital, Comparative Medicine Division


Wright State University


Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, Air Force Research Laboratory


WuXi PharmaTech, WuXi AppTec


Wyeth, Wyeth Research, Massachusetts


Wyeth Research, BioResources


Wyeth Research, Wyeth Research - Pearl River


Wyeth Research, Wyeth Research-Princeton


Wyeth Research-Chazy, Drug Safety


XOMA (US) LLC


Yale University


Yeshiva University, Albert Einstein College of Medicine


Yonsei University, College of Medicine


ZymoGenetics, Inc.





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Tuesday March 10, 2009, 3:49 pm
I dare say I just proved you wrong!

Tuesday March 10, 2009, 3:57 pm
I dare say you just posted an obscenely long list of animal abusing industries many of whom also injure and kill humans too with no respect for life only for money. What have you proved except that a helluva lot of people are getting very rich off animal suffering and people are still dying. IN fact pharmaceutical drugs are officially America's number one killer now. Nice work!
Now you've made this thread unreadable we can all go do something a bit more useful.

Tuesday March 10, 2009, 4:00 pm
Now tell me how blowing up a researchers car is going to stop what you wish again because I seem to me missing how violence does anything positive.

Lets also let you address 3 things you have said ALF

1. HIV>AIDS is a Myth
2. Early Breast Cancer detection is worthless
3. In ten years those who consume beef now will all have mad cow disease.

Please show all your line of thought and logic.

TY

Tuesday March 10, 2009, 4:02 pm
My computer has a scroll feature, threads are as long as a piece of string I have both ends.

Does blow your 90% of medical schools don't use any animals factoid out of the water though...

Tuesday March 10, 2009, 4:53 pm
GlaxoSmithKline ??? responsible animal care???? It's a disgrace to even think that. That whole and I mean WHOLE list is bad but GSK is the worst of the worst
To even put in the same post GlaxoSmithKline with responsible animal care. is ludicrous and of some one in much need of help.

Tuesday March 10, 2009, 6:07 pm
1. HIV>AIDS is a Myth
2. Early Breast Cancer detection is worthless
3. In ten years those who consume beef now will all have mad cow disease.

AIDS/HIV..Today HIV/AIDS is a major global health emergency, affecting all regions of the world, causing millions of deaths and suffering to millions more. But access to effective prevention and treatment varies widely. This chapter examines what can and must be done to narrow this gap, and to combat the disease in even the poorest countries. It suggests an aggressive strategy for global action against the HIV/AIDS pandemic that unites the efforts of WHO and its partners from many sectors and effectively combines prevention and care.

The importance of finding breast cancer early..
The goal of screening exams for early breast cancer detection is to find cancers before they start to cause symptoms. Screening refers to tests and exams used to find a disease, such as cancer, in people who do not have any symptoms. Early detection means using an approach that allows earlier diagnosis of breast cancer than otherwise might have occurred.

I have breast cancer survivors in my family..well and healthy today thanks to early detection..Tell them its worthless..

Can people get mad cow disease?
People cannot get mad cow disease. But in rare cases they may get a human form of mad cow disease called variant Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease (vCJD) if they eat nerve tissue (the brain and spinal cord) of cattle that were infected with mad cow disease. Variant Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease is a fatal condition that destroys the brain and spinal cord.
There is no evidence that people can get mad cow disease from eating muscle meat—which is used for ground beef, roasts, and steaks—or from consuming milk or milk products. People who develop vCJD cannot spread the disease to other people through casual contact.

Actually people are dying in the present moment from Salmonellosis ..caused by vegetables..peanuts..and more..

It is totally rediculous and such a farce saying these things..Maybe a tactic to try to scare people..but its truly laughable..

Tuesday March 10, 2009, 6:12 pm
Bill the list you posted has very few medical schools listed. I see that your time here is spent with a useful purpose. To defend those who wish to secure more grant or corporate funding so they may continue to receive a paycheck. Very noble, Bill I'm sure that in some plaque will be erected in your honor... something under a small and minty disk perhaps? that keeps urine blowing out of the water

Tuesday March 10, 2009, 6:38 pm
And for every 10 that surface again after 1 is arrested..well double that for research..It will not cease..not on animals nor humans..We all hope for a better way..but until that comes..there are many who are alive and well today who are thankful..

There aren't very many people who..when facing a potentially lethal disease..will refuse the diagnostic or therapeutic benefits of animal based research..or claim that such benefits ought not to have been developed.. And that especially applies when the afflicted person happens to be your child..parent, sibling or spouse..
Unless of course you are among those that do put animals before humans..

Thank goodness most of the world is compassionate..reasonable and logical in that aspect..

Tuesday March 10, 2009, 7:01 pm
Thank goodness most of the world is compassionate..reasonable and logical in that aspect.."
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Guess that rules out the people conducting thoses test on helpless animals.


Dee you didn't answer my question. Do you have a compassion for those animals that suffer at the hand of these.. people ( can't call them human.

Tuesday March 10, 2009, 7:26 pm
Huntssab I suggest you read the list again every research center is hospital university connected that is not big pharm. in fact some of the most prestigous medical schools in the world that do research.

Tuesday March 10, 2009, 8:03 pm
Bill..I see a couple of people here chanting ALF and praising ALF..Sadly..they aren't getting it and they do have a right to choose to feel what they want..
I think the most important issue here us..Those that continue to carry out these sick and horrific crimes will be brought down..You know labs are not going to close and shut down..at least not until that have the means of other ways to do their medical research..and animals as well as humans will be used until that time comes..

It is absolutely absurd to suggest that anyone likes its..No one does..of that I am certain..just as you are Bill..and I am sure many others know that..It us just a few here who are extreme in their thinking..in their comments..attitudes..Well so be it..Let them go out and help bomb and set fires and most of us know just where they will end up..and sadly..and so ignorantly how they are actually only hurting the cause by what they are doing..

Once again thanks for the story..I bid you a goodnight for now..

Wednesday March 11, 2009, 10:58 am
Bill, if the pharmaceutical company is named it is big pharm. I browsed you bloated list and stand partially corrected, About a quarter appear to be universities. As for prestige One of the schools repeated on your list, Texas A&M, is primarily a vet and engineering school whose graduate students can't stack wood, In Texas they are not prestigious, they are the butt of a lot of jokes. I see a lot of other vet schools in your lists as well.

You apparently have a very rose colored view of academic research, the students assigned to do it, and the federal agency that funds it. Most university's require a semester of Bio chemistry (some none at all) in order to get a Biology degree. Most of these "researchers" do not have more than a basic understanding of how chemicals within a structure react, Most biology professors in this country got their degrees before DOS. In university's the number of papers published is important not necessarily the end results. Universities gain "prestige" by getting their name in print.. If the Grant dept can come up with a well written proposal the NIH funds it. In the US Government if you don't spend your allocated budget it gets smaller next year.

Bill you and your kind can cheer in triumph every time an activist goes to jail but animal experiments like fur salons, don't close with leaflets. At least they are trying to make a difference. Iif you are convinced that the vivisectors work and present testing methods will really bring about cures for all that ails mankind, volunteer to be a test subject. Put you ass where your mouth is, but maybe you already took that suggestion to heart.

Wednesday March 11, 2009, 11:57 am
I have been a "test subject" as have others on this thread.

I also worked a Lemur Facility at Duke University where I got one of those "prestigous" degrees you seem to feel come rom "press", lets see you do an admission pack to Duke and see if your accepted.

Any you do what again, blow stuff up?

Medicine is a science and art, I have no rose colored glass attached to research or medicine I have results from it.

What do you do (?) since your so critical of something I doubt your very versed in as several of the posters on this thread are biomedical researchers, genetics researchers and a few are even critically ill.

When you face a critical junction that can be life or death for you and not someone else and "activists" say how they will never accept medical help that involved animals I laugh. Will never happen; at that point you will be grasping at straws for a hope and chance. Human nature is human nature.

I am sure we know about what we speak to much more than some ALF member with a PeTA video. I practiced for many years, did not burn down any hospital or kill anything I am OK with my contribution and will continue in the capacity I now function.

Wednesday March 11, 2009, 9:43 pm
American Physiological Society
Animal Research: The Humane Response to Human Suffering

Animal research is the most humane response to human suffering from disease. Depriving sick human beings of the benefits of animal research is inhumane and reprehensible. The American Physiological Society advocates the use of animals for research and teaching as the most humane response to the need to relieve mankind from the suffering caused by disease. The use of animals is necessary if researchers are to combat illness, which affects both human beings and animals. The correct training of physicians and medical scientists also requires the use of animals for laboratory teaching. Textbooks, isolated cells, computer models, and other representations of the intact living organism can provide only a partial understanding of life processes for both the medical researcher and the student. Efforts to deny the human race the best possible curative power of modern sciences must be repulsed.

Wednesday March 11, 2009, 9:47 pm
The American Veterinary Medical Association Supports Responsible Animal Research

Use of Animals in Research, Testing, and Education
(Approved by the AVMA Executive Board 1983; revised November 1995; November 2007)


The AVMA recognizes that animals play a central and essential role in research, testing, and education for continued improvement in the health and welfare of human beings and animals. The AVMA also recognizes that humane care of animals used in research, testing, and education is an integral part of those activities. In keeping with these concerns, the AVMA endorses the principles embodied in the "Three R" tenet of Russell and Burch (1959). These principles are: refinement of experimental methods to eliminate or reduce animal pain and distress; reduction of the number of animals consistent with sound experimental design; and replacement of animals with non-animal methods wherever feasible.

The use of animals in research, testing, and education is a privilege carrying with it unique professional, scientific, and moral obligations, and ethical responsibilities. The AVMA encourages proper stewardship of all animals, but defends and promotes the use of animals in meaningful research, testing, and education programs.

The AVMA condemns all acts of violence, vandalism, or intimidation directed toward individuals, facilities, or tertiary organizations affiliated with the use of animals in research, testing, or education.