Wednesday October 14, 2009, 2:56 pm

From the ruling:

'Defendants Darius Fullmer, Andrew Stepanian, Kevin Kjonaas, Joshua Harper, Lauren Gazzola, Jacob Conroy, and Stop Huntingdon Animal Cruelty (“SHAC”) collectively challenge their convictions for conspiracy to violate the Animal Enterprise Protection Act (“AEPA”), 18 U.S.C. § 43 (2002). Notably, our interpretation of this statute is an issue of first impression in this, or any, circuit court of appeal.

SHAC, Kjonaas, Gazzola, and Conroy also challenge their convictions for conspiracy to commit interstate stalking, as well as three substantive counts of stalking. Finally, SHAC, Kjonaas, Gazzola, Conroy, and Harper challenge their convictions for conspiracy to use a telecommunications device to abuse, threaten, and harass.

The overarching issues in this appeal are whether the AEPA violates the First Amendment, whether there was sufficient evidence to convict Defendants of the various charges against them, and challenges to the jury instructions. Because we find that the AEPA is neither unconstitutional on its face, nor unconstitutional as applied to SHAC, Kjonaas, Gazzola, Conroy, Stepanian, Harper and Fullmer, we will affirm their convictions for conspiracy to violate the AEPA. In addition, we find that there was sufficient evidence to convict Defendants on all charges involving interstate stalking. Finally, we find no flaw in the jury instructions, and we will therefore affirm the Judgment of the District Court in all other respects.

Wednesday October 14, 2009, 4:28 pm
Let me see here...Folks note note note!!!! Or I will throw more nanners at you again...Or I will jump on yer beds and leave fleas.....LOL

Big Gorilly Hugs....

Wednesday October 14, 2009, 4:28 pm


GORILLY told Me about this ORDEAL.
PEACABLE PROTESTING is RIGHT.
t.y.

Wednesday October 14, 2009, 4:38 pm
Very glad to see their rediculous appeal was denied..

I hope this does make the front page news..I certainly will post and forward this for you..

Thanks Bill..
Duly noted..

Wednesday October 14, 2009, 4:41 pm
ive heard of them and their tactics. the old saying. you fight fire with fire you only get more fire. need waters of peace.

Wednesday October 14, 2009, 4:47 pm
Thank you Bill and Gorilly Girl will forward! Oh noted too!

Wednesday October 14, 2009, 4:51 pm
noted thank you

Wednesday October 14, 2009, 4:51 pm
TY I totally agree with peaceful and legal protest, violence is not the way.

SHAC has gone as far a grave robbery and threats to flush people ashes down the toilet, they recently burned down the home of Novartis CEO and they do not even contract with HLS. The ALF has blown up 2 Stapels delivery trucks because they sell office supplies to HLS, the deliver men were inside delivering when the bombs were set,.

This sets a serious tone as the AETA-4 trial is in process where they fire bomed homes in California.

The only change can be legal change.

Wednesday October 14, 2009, 4:57 pm
I cannot agree with blowing up people this is wrong...we have to fight for our animals in a diffrent way...and there are without hurting people...I know animals are at stake here, but cannot allow ourselves to kill.
I know some are going to say well these corporations kill animals and yes they do, but we cannot fight the fight in jail now can we.
Bill knows how i feel about this...but if he supports me in some of my animal rights I should support him on some of his...agreed???

Big Gorilly Hugs

I think all of you know where I am comming from on this issue....

Wednesday October 14, 2009, 5:02 pm
I too agree with legal protest but I also agree on with what ever it takes to reusce a animal that is being abused to do. Not burning a home down or so on but getting to that animal then I'm there. No animal deserves to be abused in any form. Thanks Bill and Gorilly Gril

Wednesday October 14, 2009, 5:18 pm
. Save animals first? I'm up for that big time, probably no matter what it takes. Oops, got to be peaceful and smart about it !!
Tx Bill and Gorilly xo

Wednesday October 14, 2009, 5:25 pm
Thanks Bill and Gorilly. If will kill or Mame or use violence we put ourselves in the same category and perspective as the evil doers in the public eye.

Wednesday October 14, 2009, 5:27 pm
By the way Gorilly I love them nanners but you can keep the fleas. My flea circus here keeps me plenty busy,lol.

Wednesday October 14, 2009, 5:31 pm
Sometimes Gorilly Girl I feel very helpless and angry to the hilt for example a furrier near my local coffee shop not only sits in his shop full of dead animals happily selling his wares but now has threatened the cafe to report them if they do not put a notice in their window asking people not to feed the birds. How can we deal with some one who has no regard for living creatures I tried to talk to him because I could not understand his problem but he became abusive and said all birds and animals are VERMIN certain animals are only good for their FUR and who cares occasionally the animal charities boycott his shop but he turns on a hose pipe. I know you are right and we cannot turn to violence but I guess some times it all gets too much for some people I am not a violent person but when I pass the shop I really wish bad calma on him I guess thats as far as I go but if I heard something awful had happened to him God forgive me I would not feel sad my sadness is for all the skins in those coats and now even the few birds must suffer I also can not agree to blowing up people and I know it is not the way forward but I guess sometimes people just lose it Slowly but surely I keep telling myself we will get there Love and Peace xxxx

Wednesday October 14, 2009, 5:36 pm
Marie he has no right to force you all to put a sign in the cafe..instead buy the best bird seed you can find and invite all the featherd friends to vistit especially on top of this mans head...lol He cannot make you guys do this he would have to actually go to the city council and fight which will take a long time whilst he is doing this you get all your bird lovers together and make you case against this bubbling idiot...Yes I know what your thinking and I will say it for yu...fire what fire...LOL

Big Gorilly Hugs

Besides he sounds like a nasty old man who thinks he's king...

Wednesday October 14, 2009, 5:49 pm
Oh Heck No Marie he can't make you do dilly squat feed your birds , Like Grolliy said maybe one will poop on his head. Even if he tries to fight you on this which I doubt it would take a long time so do as you may. Don't let him bully you its your buniness not his hummmm!!!! nasty man.

Wednesday October 14, 2009, 5:50 pm
To all of my friends who came here to note this..Many..many thanks to you..As I said we all love animals..we all want to help them..I am proud to know you all..
I am happy to see so many do not agree with the criminal tactics of those extremists such as SHAC..

We so much better serve the animals by peacefully protesting..by trying to change laws and stick together..not fight among ourselves..I am sure we all have our own passions..and methods in how we go about fighting our causes..But it is good to know we are all sticking together here..

This is wrong what these extremists do..and they deserve to be charged and jailed for their crimes..They are no better than any terrorist out there anywhere..That is exactly what they are..

Again Bill..Thank you for this news story..and for being a good friend..One I am proud to call my friend..I know you have a caring and very passionate heart..

Wednesday October 14, 2009, 6:04 pm
FRONT PAGE...Yay..

Wednesday October 14, 2009, 6:05 pm
Noted, Thank You!

Wednesday October 14, 2009, 6:26 pm
Noted..Thank you!

Wednesday October 14, 2009, 6:29 pm
The terrorism is not the same as violence used defensively. Terrorism means violence used against civilians, to attack, not defend, and intended to cause terror. Apparently what those activists were doing was terrorism. I don't support terrorism.

Violence used to defend other humans is a human right. Violence used to defend other living creatures is not a human right, as far as I know, though I support it.

Wednesday October 14, 2009, 6:43 pm
So im not bad in almost whoopin this guys butt for litteraly starving his dog??? She used to come to my house for food and he and I got into it and I was so fixin to take him out..he actually was backing up then he saw my hubbby and left....LOL I can do that cant I...LOL

Big Gorilly Hugs

Wednesday October 14, 2009, 7:55 pm
Let me see...Bill Clinton in 1992 at ate MDonald's, a reporter said "that made him a 'regular guy' ", Leftists think Clinton is a god, ALF goes after people who kill animals.

Does that mean the Leftists will all kill themselves and each other?

Signed, confused conservative

Wednesday October 14, 2009, 7:58 pm
TY, Dee and others for this story. I concur with the above comments, and Marie,....don't be intimidated by that nasty ole man...Keep feeding our feathered friends. Gorilly, I can see you doing that! Kick butt and take names later, I always say....;-) p.s. I hope the dog is doing okay....

Wednesday October 14, 2009, 10:37 pm
Noted and thanks Gorilly Girl!!!

Wednesday October 14, 2009, 11:45 pm
i don`t know what ? our friends of wild life .the head of this group is not going to the bright side. he`ll have his day of judgment. karma always wins i say. i`ll check an see if 007 is up for the part. we`d see hit story. this would be front page here an a far. sunwolf peace an love

Thursday October 15, 2009, 3:29 am
I Read This Today ... Forgive Me But I thought We Where at war For FREEDOM ... I Guess Freedom Means Do As We (The Government) Says ... I Will Never complie :)

Its About $$$ And Nothing More!!!

Until Every Cage Is Empty

Thursday October 15, 2009, 4:04 am
Wow Bill, at least you posted news to note !!- and it doesn't matter that most of those who notted didn't even read the 60 pages
JACOB CONROY
CONVICTED OF: Conspiracy to violate the Animal Enterprise Protection Act, Conspiracy to Stalk, three counts of Interstate Stalking, Conspiracy to Harass using a Telecommunications Device
SENTENCE: 4 years

DARIUS FULMER WAS RELEASED FROM PRISON ON SEPTEMBER 29, 2007, AFTER SERVING 85% OF HIS SENTENCE.
CONVICTED OF: Conspiracy to violate the Animal Enterprise Protection Act
SENTENCE: 1 year, 1 day

LAUREN GAZZOLA
CONVICTED OF: Conspiracy to violate the Animal Enterprise Protection Act, Conspiracy to Stalk, three counts of Interstate Stalking, Conspiracy to Harass using a Telecommunications Device
SENTENCE: 4 years, 4 months

KEVIN KJONAAS
CONVICTED OF: Conspiracy to violate the Animal Enterprise Protection Act, Conspiracy to Stalk, three counts of Interstate Stalking, Conspiracy to Harass using a Telecommunications Device
SENTENCE: 6 years

Andy Stepanianwas released from prison on December 15th, 2008, to a halfway house in New York.
CONVICTED OF: Conspiracy to violate the Animal Enterprise Protection Act
SENTENCE: 3 years

JOSH HARPER IS NOW OUT!

Thursday October 15, 2009, 4:04 am
The point Christian is what the actions of groups like the ALF and SHAC did was fast track AETA, it was the violence not the need for change that halted legislation that would have accomplished that. You wish to shut down HLS, fine with me but why don't you also look at some facts. In England the petition to call for legal action with over a million signatures was found in a basement along with almost 1 million in cash, all collected by SHAC never delivered. If you believe digging up graves, burning down homes will do anything why don't you speak to Rodney Coronado, he has totally changed his reasoning.

He has figured out that people who do the violence because of their anger or lack of understanding do so for themselves and they create that image you claim the government made when it was an image burned in by people like Coronado's actions.

Change can only come legally or it means nothing. Violence gets the reaction SHAC got and now the AETA-4 trial will be next. Young lives ruined, families destroyed for nothing not one thing has changed.

Thursday October 15, 2009, 4:09 am
So your point Joanna is they all went to prison? Or is it their appeal of conviction was upheld?

Thursday October 15, 2009, 4:26 am
Under GODS Law animal Testing Is A SIN... End Of Story!!

Thursday October 15, 2009, 4:28 am
Would I go to the extremes to save an animal??? Yes I would if it presented itself, would I or could I kill a human or burn thier personal home down...No I couldnt do that.

Big Gorilly Hugs

Thursday October 15, 2009, 4:36 am
Not Kill As That Is Against ALF Guidlines ... Digging Up A Grave NO ... But What Is More Important LIFE??? Or Human Life???

To Me Life Is Life Jesus Taught Me That!!

Thursday October 15, 2009, 4:54 am
I need to be clear here. I agree with limited medical need testing, totally because I understand the need. I am against cosmetic testing. Joanna you seem to feel people are not educated enough to understand the appeal was to overturn the decision of conviction.

Our world runs on law, the only was to change law that is related to animals is with new law. Violence only reinforced the law is right and you get a knee jerk reaction. The best example is AETA, a bill that sat dormant for years because it was poorly written and open ended, PeTA funded the ALF to put up an intimidation billboard in Times Square of ALF members in mask with the caption We control Wall Street. In less than 2 months a dead bill was law to stop enterprise terrorism, you can thank PeTA for that. This decision will likely have the AETA-4 in a plea bargain mood as if they are convicted federally and then state for the fire bombs in California they will face life in prison at 20 yrs old.

This appeal was a legal challenge to say people have the right to harass, destroy and attack other doing a legal job just because they oppose the research. Hedonism at its best.

We all would rescue but we all also have to do so within legal guidelines. The concept Christian that it is a sin is foolish, I can quote the bible also and give you many passages where God gave man permission to hunt, use animals for clothing and in any way that advanced mankind following certain religious guidelines.

None of that is the point, this is not year 1 it is 2009 and we must function in the parameters of the law to change the law. For example the mink releases done in the USA, ended like this. The mink farm was insured, all the release mink were paid for, mink being predators killed all the wildlife and destroyed the ecosystem, many were re-trapped and sold at wild mink at a much higher price and the people involved are in jail.

So the release of 3000 animals killed all of them, killed an ecosystem and gifted the farm almost double the money. If that's your idea of success I question your ideas.

I agree with protest, letter writing, hell if you wish to stand outside HLS 24/7 with numbers in the thousands it is fine with me. But when you think it is OK to bomb a Staples truck with a driver in California because Staples in New Jersey has a contract with HLS that is no different than bombing the grocery store for selling meat, what it accomplishes is gifting credability to the law and stops those working so hard to do things like cap species and numbers and gradually whittle down the use of the live model by changing law.

Shooting yourself in the foot so to speak. The facts are clear, due to actions of SHAC and the ALF, research is booming in China where there are no whistleblowers, no protestors and no overseers. I thats what you wish your getting it as I type.

Violence is not the way.

Thursday October 15, 2009, 5:03 am
lol Bill ya Call Yaself An activist ffs ya aint fooloing Me, You believe In ANIMAL Testing , I Believe In AYIN TAHAT AYIN!!

Ya aint fooloing ME #!

NEVER FORGET THOSE THAT TEST OR APPROVE OF ANIMAL TESTING ARE PERVERTED Criminals & They MUST BE TREATED AS SUCH!! Until EVERY CAGE IS EMPTY!!


Caligastia O'Verti'o

Thursday October 15, 2009, 5:15 am
You have no idea other than what your fed by specific groups as to what goes on in any lab. Yes I am for limited animals use in labs said so very clearly. I agree your Mad, such is life. I am cripple, don't like that much either but I don't destroy others because of it.

Using the written word your control is so poor you can;t avoid profanity, sad and a great example of why you will fail.

Thursday October 15, 2009, 5:44 am
Dude you approve Of animal testing, Then I Say you deserve what you get!!

As I Do However im willing To Die are You??

Thursday October 15, 2009, 6:10 am
I have noted--thank you. Bill-you have previously stated that you STRONGLY believe in animal testing and you worked in a lab--is that not correct? You view is biased. I do not believe that anyone should be hurt-including animals. It makes the fight less effective. but I would go to extremes to help animals that were being tortured in any way-and labs especially--HLS for example. But I would not-nor do I condone hurting maiming or killing humans in order to accomplish this-but I would shut down every lab if it would save the animals and puppy mills and dog fighting rings etc.

Thursday October 15, 2009, 6:16 am
"Joanna you seem to feel people are not educated enough to understand the appeal was to overturn the decision of conviction. "
I feel that people are stupid enough to believe any shit gov/media give to them and don't understand what they read.

Which one of the SHAC 7 has been convinced of killing anybody or burn somebody home down?

Thursday October 15, 2009, 6:22 am
Any Animal Cruelty Liz :)

Test On Peadophiles etc Or Does BILL Have A issue With that???

Thursday October 15, 2009, 7:55 am
I noted this story but I want to make it clear that I am opposed to using animals in experiments.

Thursday October 15, 2009, 8:08 am
Story noted, while I agree with peaceful protests to protect animals, I am totally against any type of animals that are used in lab/medical etc, experiments.

If they want to do that do it on a criminal that has a choice.

Thursday October 15, 2009, 9:19 am
I do not support eco-terrorism, or any terrorism for that matter.....Noted and will pass this on to others....thanks so much for bringing this to light, as I have not heard of them...I am new here. I like it here as well...Thanks all peaceful ones....

Thursday October 15, 2009, 9:23 am
I am opposed to using animals in experiments also by the way and wanted to make sure I stated that as well.

Thursday October 15, 2009, 9:48 am
you know,i'am a non violent person. witnessing some of the horriying things some do to animals can make anyone snap.violecnce is not the answer.I am judgeless in my opinion here.Huntingdon does terrible terible things to HUNDREDS of animals.we need shac,it's because to get their ATTENTION! I'am sad for SHAC. How many people would put their lives on the line for their animals?????I would like to see the DC in huntingdon and be put in their place and see how they like it in hell!!!!!

Thursday October 15, 2009, 10:22 am
At Huntington, they didnt just "Test" on animals. One guy PUNCHED with his fist a baby puppy, when it cried out he yelled SHUTUP YOU LITTLE **** " and hit it again and again because it kept crying.

Thursday October 15, 2009, 10:31 am
Its also interesting to note that the SHAC 7 is being charged under the AETA, because the shac7 were arrested before the AETA was signed into law.

Thursday October 15, 2009, 11:46 am
This is true: "The ALF has blown up 2 Stapels delivery trucks because they sell office supplies to HLS"

This is what has to change, if animals are to be protected this activity, which can only be described as terror, has to stop. Animals will only be protected when the movement enters the mainstream, and the ALF only operates marginally. The ALF has to go.

I should mention that the two ALF supporters on in my Empathy discussion group here both denied violence against people: they lied. Lying is anti-empathic activity so it is difficult to argue for the ALF from an empathy perspective.

If it isn't empathy, what is the ALF motivation? That is a question that has to be answered, and probably applies to PeTA as well, which has at times supported terror, and also runs the highest kill-ratio shelter in America.

Thursday October 15, 2009, 12:08 pm
Actually SHAC-7 are or were charged under Animal Enterprise Protection Act (“AEPA”), 18 U.S.C. § 43

That is not AETA, there is a huge difference. AETA evokes Federal Law and currently the AETA-4 are the first under trial in California for the ecoterrorism at UC, The denial of appeal under AEPA for the SHAC-7 will be a powerful tool that will likely lead to Federal conviction which is not allot of jail time, what will harm them the most is the conviction added to state charges of attempted murder or 2 home fire bombs, one that did $40,000 in damage was done at night where 2 children had to escape the fire from second story windows.

Yes 20 years ago in 1989 2 HLS employees in England did punch dogs and abused animals, they were charged with animal abuse and rightfully convicted. The SHAC-7 targeted HLS in New Jersey not in the UK.

To me groups who are animal rights activists and medically orientate or research orientated should be allowed to be in any federally funded research facility using animals, people seem to miss the fact that just with AAALAC accreditation ther are over 770 facilities accredited and use animals, 95% are mice, fruit fly and zebra fish. When "activists" say things like Harvard or Dartmouth or Duke have stopped the use of the live model they are misinformed.

If you wish to see what just one accreditation agency accredits here is the real list, you will find every prestigious medical school in the world listed:

http://www.aaalac.org/accreditedorgs/aaalaclistall.cfm

My point is work for change but do it legally without violence and destruction because that harms any effort to do species caps and limits. Are we as humans unable to find solutions to change laws we as human put in place?

Thursday October 15, 2009, 1:16 pm
"95% are mice"

Mice are fully empathic, despite what "cold scientists" may say. (It has been shown that most scientists are unable to apply the scientific method in their own lives, which implies they can barely do it at work.)

I documented a variety of "human behaviors" by mice who were living near my cabin, including an "incident" where a mother mouse showed a strategy in saving her babies when I disturbed her by cleaning my shed.

http://thinman.com/empathy

Those who say that giving mice, or other rodents, human characteristics is anthropomorphism are probably lacking in human characteristics themselves, and are effectively robots because they lack one or both of the empathic neurons: mirror and spindle cells. Giving those people human characteristics is, in fact, anthropomorphism: they have limited or no organismic feelings.

In contemporary society, the major cause of empathic neuron failure seems to be cocaine and speed. But the major players who are in this category are genetically predisposed to be missing functioning empathic neurons. They find it easy, even fun, to hurt animals; they are retarded. When their disease is combined with a learning disability, they are labeled autistic, and mercury is blamed.

http://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Empathy_Model

Thursday October 15, 2009, 4:54 pm
Extremism is extremism....PETA, ALF, ETC. I have NO respect for them and I never will.
This is of course IMHO.
Everyone is entitled to have their opinion WITHOUT ABUSE, people.

Thursday October 15, 2009, 5:30 pm
DIRECT ACTION SAVES LIVES...

ANTI-FUR VICTORY...
http://www.animalliberationfront.com/ALFront/Actions-Austria/Anti-furVictory.htm

Thursday October 15, 2009, 6:00 pm
...only if you consider animals as property is it an issue of theft; otherwise, if you consider animals being abused for the benefit of man unacceptable (it is also an ineffective method of product safety testing) it is a sane act of rescue from an insane strategy. Welfare organisations remove animals, children and women from unacceptable situations of abuse all the time, but this is considered to be different. Suffering is suffering.

Thursday October 15, 2009, 6:30 pm
Bill,i do not know you, but i don't believe your a animal lover by any means . I don't like phonies and your one because of the words coming out of your own mouth!! You say,The concept Christian that it is a sin is foolish, I can quote the bible also and give you many passages where God gave man permission to hunt, use animals for clothing and in any way that advanced mankind following certain religious guidelines)this is what you said and i think your dead wrong.)you sound very hard hearted!!! I don't want to know you either!! Who made you the expert in common law and justice??Now your a bible scholar or know it all!!The lord DID NOT AND I MEAN DID NOT make animals to torture for personal gain.It was NOT intended that way,Your missing the mark mr Bill.Your coming up with alot of justistying the means,if you know what i mean.Did it ever occur to you that Huntindon(for example) is a violent company??????So certain one's got charged you say for punching a dog,the poor dog probaly was frightened to death!!!!He knw he was being hurt!!!!I saw graphic horrible pictures inside HSL and i say,they desrve what they get,every bit of it!!They are a lying deceiving worthless piece of SHIT company!!!!!!! They shold have their testicles put in a grinder and made to eat them.Bunch of assholes,big time.Inflicting such cruelty upon innocent animals IS a sin!!They are the one's that should be in prison!!!They make my blood boil.Also,Mr Bill,you say,oh yeah i worked in a lab.Do you want a pat on the back??You did not point out that Ballaam the(donkey)in the(old teastament) bible that got beat,the angel of the lord spoke back (through the donkey)to the one that was beating him ,and the angel was ANGRY!!!!So, that story is a example as to how the lord really feels about animal abuse.You make it sound like animal activist are the enemies.Yes,SHAC went a bit over the edge,but anti-vivisection also is a type of abuse,did you ever think of that???Ant the lord would approve of that??????I don't think so,he made them first.They were here first before us an dhe must have loved them too!!

Thursday October 15, 2009, 6:39 pm
Hope you feel better Misty.

Change that works can only be achieve thru change in law, the only way you can change law is legally.

SHAC nor the ALF do any legal action.

Thursday October 15, 2009, 7:07 pm
Hope you feel better Bill the animal laboratory man is nothing to be proud about,I just speak the truth.Better changes are yet to come and for the love of animals!How do you change Government that is allowing grants to assholes that do vivi-section??Put them in there to see what it's like and feel helpless,their too chicken shit to do that,no but put innecent animals in there,bunch of cowards

Thursday October 15, 2009, 7:18 pm
Misty we have to be the change its up to us hun and noone else...I know you wont beleive me But bill has a heart of gold really he does...I know you dont understand and thats okay. But we animal activists need to stand up more to the governments that allow this...It has to take us all....I so fight so hard but if I dont have the peeps behind me it is a lost cause I fear....Dont think any animal in test labs does not break my heart for it does and rightfully so for I have so much damn compassion for them that I do get crazy at times.....Im sort of a freak I put myself in thier position and try to feel what they feel if it was done to me and I probably shouldnt but I do and that is why it makes me fight so much harder....

Big Gorilly Hugs

Big Gorilly Hugs

Thursday October 15, 2009, 8:48 pm
I feel the same Gorilly Girl about the animals and i have always felt that way.My intention was not to misjudge here but to make a point.But i know one thing,i could not work in no lab but we do need some to help bring out exposure as to waht's being done behind closed doors,it can be so heart wrenching.Huntingdon was terrible,what is saw that was done to those dogs,i mean terrible.How can anyone with a conscience do those things?????Cts that had been tormented!!!!!It haunted me to see that,like you would not believe.I had a dog once,that looked just like the dogs in Huntingdon and that's all i could think of.How can people stoop so low??

Thursday October 15, 2009, 8:52 pm
I know misty but we are really gonna have to fight hard to make the changes and I think folks that work in labs have become numb to the fact of what they are doing maybe not all of them...LOL But I cannot believe that all of them enjoy this...too many leaks when it is supposed to be secret...know where Im going with this...I think you do...But anyhow well keep fighting the right way....

Big Gorilly Hgs

Thursday October 15, 2009, 10:23 pm
Oh please,,, If you've been AR long enough you understand what is going on.
SHAC, Nor ALF have ever harmed nor killed any living beings.

Friday October 16, 2009, 5:09 am
Misty you do not understand research and "labs", yes I worked a primate research facility but you believe groups like PeTA who use shock and gore to make people believe what they see is some daily occurrence. Most of the videos you see took years to get and yes there was abuse but it was not the norm

If you really care about animals read about my experience http://lemur.duke.edu/

Kathy apparently you have not been around long enough, not only has the ALF beat humans with clubs, mace them and fire bombed cars and houses let me ask you this. I see your holding a child, since you feel the ALF's actions are OK how would you like being asleep with that child in your home and at 3 am discover your home on fire to the point you and the children have to climb out of second story windows because someone disagreed with your approval of the ALF?

That happened in California this year, if you think that's OK the animals and humanity have no hope.

If you think burning a home to the ground, or digging up a mothers grave then posting her URN with threats to flush her ashes down the toilet is OK, have AIDS tainted sanitary napkins sent to you in the mail then I will say IMO think your thinking is very strange; all of that has happened this year.

Do you think you have the right to stop any legal business thru violence and destruction? I do not care what it is, many people feel strongly about the exploitation of women, do they burn down topless bars, burn down stores, what about the right wing abortion folk, do they have the right to kill doctors who do a legal service to help woman's rights? Do Vegans have the right to bomb the grocery who sells meat? There is no difference.

My point is clear, if you wish change be intelligent enough to make it about animals and not EGO. Do it legally.

Friday October 16, 2009, 6:43 am
Well Bill--yet again--you continue to amaze me. No one is allowed to disagree with you--as I have said before--you think you are God. Sorry Gorilly--I do not believe that Bill has a heart of gold--but I believe that we are all entitled to our opinion--unlike Bill.Note to the wise--the more you disagree with Bill-the more he will be-little you. We are all here because we love animals and we need the right thing done. Sadly some of us have worked in labs and think the work that they are doing is extremely important. some of us have seen horrible video(that was not taken in 1989-much more recent.) I hope it all works out for the poor animals that are left to the humans that do not appreciate their feelings of pain and despair.

Friday October 16, 2009, 6:49 am
No worries Liz you feel as you feel sweets that is allowed you know among friends yes...???

Big Gorilly Hugs

Friday October 16, 2009, 8:38 am
OK, who wants to be the first HUMAN to test a medication for the first time!
I wonder if there will be a long line for it or not.
How do we test medications that can possibly save human lives?
ON humans?
It is an unfortunate TRUTH that animals are the only way to do so.
I don't approve of cosmetic companies doing it, though....it is obvious we have those and to me, a redundant thing to continually check them on animals..that is so not needed.
But I for one, I am not going to be the first test subject to test a new, untested medication. Sorry.
This is IMHO.
I value your opinions as well.

Friday October 16, 2009, 8:52 am
Hmm, funny....I never thought of anyone here thinking they were or are a deity ..Just human.
This is a very complex and controversial subject.
But if one just gets a hold of their emotions and not go overboard, maybe name calling,and belittling can stop.
The freedom to have one's opinion is free for ALL. Bill is not taking that away from ANYONE.
I wish you all peace, equally.

Friday October 16, 2009, 8:56 am
Yes I know I have kept mine in check....LOL Thats a first...LOL

Big Gorilly Hugs

Friday October 16, 2009, 9:01 am
You know what Liz not once and I say clearly not once have I ever said anything but change needs to be legal

What is there to disagree with in this story? All I provided because of people like you Liz was the court documents, I am not above the law are you?

Do you believe you have the right to break the law that includes arson of homes with people in them?

SHAC and the ALF do and they have; I have been consistent my entire time on this site and what I have told people will happen has happened.

I wish to say something if you do not agree with the story then why note it? If friendship with another is the reason you note something you disagree with you prove my point that the malleable nature of people in this "extreme" activism. The AETA-4 are all kids in their 20's, their life is ruined and I can 100% guarantee it was one person and friendship peer pressure that led to the violence. Rodney Coronado the most famous bomber for the ALF says now he did it because he could not control his own rage and what he did harmed the animals. He says that militant illegal activism make the activist fit exactly what the government says they are and their actions strengthen the governments position.

I do not note stories I disagree with o feel are not news from anyone, but then that is my ethics.

Legal action or challenge evokes change, why are there not thousands protesting outside HLS? It's legal all you need is a permit. But no it is a small group of aggressive people doing more harm than good for animals.

Why no march on government offices to change laws? Why were the million signatures on SHAC's petition against HLS found in a basement with 1 million in donated cash, petition never delivered and money donated literally making a few SHAC members rich.

All true but you don't wish to hear truth. I have clearly said I believe in medical need testing, no cosmetic testing, caps on species, caps on numbers and required shared data to stop redundancy.

Violence will do nothing but make laws stronger, arrests and penalty more severe and if you can't see that is happening I can't make the blind see.

Friday October 16, 2009, 10:33 pm
one wonders How This info Relates to Violent ARA's?

How Childhood Animal Abusers Evolve Into Serial Killers/Rapist, Wife/Child Abusers, Criminals..

Perhaps in thier Youth they Commited some Act of Cruelty;
and To Absolve themselves of thier Crime against an animal;
they Turn thier Self hate and violent tendencies;
Outward onto the Rest of Humanity..

Kinda makes one Wonder?

Friday October 16, 2009, 10:38 pm
Rod thats no me I swear it isnt...lol

Big Gorilly Hgs

Saturday October 17, 2009, 12:56 am
I neither condemn nor condone illegal tactics used to save animals. I understand the extreme level of frustration encountered by activists. What puzzles me is why Wall Street criminals are rewarded with huge bonuses, insurance company executives merrily study ways to collect ever higher premiums while finding more excuses to deny claims and politicians are allowed to take "campaign donations" from lobbyists in return for blatant favors and are often rewarded with re-election, while activists are skewered for trying to stop the brutal torture of innocent animals. Something wrong with our collective values.

Saturday October 17, 2009, 2:29 am
thank you

Saturday October 17, 2009, 4:39 am
That's OK Gorilly;
I Know You reserve Your Gorilly Rage/Violence for Crackhead CarThieves..

I realy have Wondered for some time just what Triggers the ANTI Human Totalitarian Attitudes of Some Vegans and Other Violent activists;
I come from another generation, Where Martin Luther King; and Ghandi were the Role models for Positive Change that My parents Taught us to follow..
..if More ARA's Were Willing to Give thier life for the Cause; While Avoiding ALL Violent acts Then thier Efforts might be Credible

Saturday October 17, 2009, 5:13 am
Well said Rod the "new" activism where people claim they are going to place themself in harms way is BS, they are covert. Fire bombs, strike and run and the only people or animals they place in harms way are those they attack.

Just like when the ALF attacked the private Zoo in Turin Italy, even claimed it on Biteback, then they discovered the rapter house was not empty nor was the tiger house. The burned over 40 rapters to death and then this site tried to say OH NO not the ALF it was people impersonating the ALF...right and I got a bridge in Brooklyn for sale.

In Chicago the ALF attacked a horrific pet store, one closed many times by the city. They thought it was empty and fire bombed it and took credit, then they found out all the reptiles and fish had not yet been moved all the snakes, turtles lizzards, and fish burned to death.

Violence makes it worse.

Saturday October 17, 2009, 6:49 am
Anyone can comment on a comment thread. Unless they have changed it to an AGREE THREAD.

Saturday October 17, 2009, 9:10 am
Rod oh I have never gottten over that either...LOL

Big gorilly hugs

Saturday October 17, 2009, 10:17 am
So true Liz thats why you do not have to "note" a story to comment; you note stories you feel are newsworthy enough you support them.

Thanks for the "note it" Liz.

Saturday October 17, 2009, 11:47 am
how sick does anyone have to be to harm any one or anything this is Mandess

Saturday October 17, 2009, 2:56 pm
SHAC has never harmed a human being. SHAC has voiced support for activism. SHAC has used and is using electronic medium to educate the public and to provide LEGAL means of contacting the animal abusers. If you look at the charges - going to prison for electronic protests is hilarious.... When the right to free speech - to 'civil disobedience' results in prison time; then we as a human race is doomed. Any history scholar will point out that the greatest strides in the rights of man were achieved through 'civil disobedience'. Here is a nice example:

The Jews in the Warsaw ghetto fought back - and yes this was 'civil disobedience'. They were fighting for their lives against a power whose only intent was slaughter AND they put the rest of the world to shame!

Here are some more examples:

The Americans fought against their English master. This was 'civil disobedience'.

The 'blacks' in South Africa fought against the 'white' apartheid regime. This was 'civil disobedience'.

I can go on and on.

ANIMAL RIGHTS ACTIVISTS IN PERSPECTIVE
====================================
Since the animals are helpless, and do not have the tools to express 'civil disobedience' some humans with GUTS are doing it for them. They face a lobby of rich bastards, a lobby of pharmaceutical companies living the high life while they wallow neck deep in the blood and suffering of animal victims; And all of this for a bogus science. The proof of this bogus science is there for anyone to read - for those who actually would take the time to do some research - without blind belief in the words of the hysterical fear mongering propaganda of those who would justify this bogus science.

When big money combines with politics the end result is always the same: CORRUPTION

When a government is corrupt, it will use the law to enforce corruption. And if the law proves inadequate, a new one will be created.

As for those who would and do so glibly use the Bible to justify the torturing of animals - may your God have mercy on your souls.

And lastly - please read the whole document of the charges and the penalties BEFORE you believe this distorted news story. I have now read a huge amount of TOTAL CRAP here about SHAC.

Bill C. has been very quick to judge others when they inadvertently post an inaccurate story. Well Bill C. you have now outdone anyone you have previously damned. Anyone with half a brain - when reading the entire court transcripts - will know that this story and especially your comments are totally devoid of any truth.

And NO, I'm not noting this story - it is not worth noting, and perhaps I should not even have wasted my time to comment. But bigots need to be faced head-on. And one must never discount a fool either, because fools are dangerous; their foolish statements and propoganda food for more fools. And thse fools vote, and when these fools have lost all their rights then these fools cry, 'but I did not know'. So help me God, you did not care to know.

Saturday October 17, 2009, 3:34 pm
So Eureka then why on SHAC's site are their over 25 injunctions against them (all from illegal activity)?

You claim what I have said are lies, interesting, sorry but what I have said about your beloved SHAC is true there are no lies just ill informed people such as you.

So Mam since you feel the argument is all SHAC does is electronic here is a bit of reading material for you of recent "action" against the CEO of Novartis, where they burned down homes, dug up graves and stole dead people:

Enjoy how "kind" SHAC is just copy and paste the URL's.

Novartis CEO Sends Emails to 140 Animal Rights Activists: “You Are Criminals”

http://industry.bnet.com/pharma/10004622/novartis-ceo-sends-emails-to-140-
animal-rights-activists-you-are-criminals/

Novartis: Police Get Serious About Attacks on CEO; Boehringer Lab Site Torched

http://industry.bnet.com/pharma/10004363/novartis-police-get-serious-about-attacks
-on-ceo-boehringer-lab-site-torched/

Activists Post Photos of Novartis CEO’s Family Grave; Threaten to Flush Mom’s Ashes Down Toilet

http://industry.bnet.com/pharma/10003842/activists-post-photos-of-novartis-ceos-family-grave-threaten
-to-flush-moms-ashes-down-toilet/

Novartis Ups Rhetoric v. “Terrorist” Animal Rights Activists; “Police Not Taking It Seriously”

http://industry.bnet.com/pharma/10003571/novartis-ups-rhetoric-v-terrorist-animal-rights-activists-
police-not-taking-it-seriously/

Novartis CEO Family Grave Attacked a 2nd Time; Targets Listed on Animal Rights Site

http://industry.bnet.com/pharma/10003508/novartis-ceo-family-grave-attacked-a-2nd-time
-targets-listed-on-animal-rights-site/?tag=content;col1

Novartis CEO’s Home Burned; Mother’s Grave Desecrated; Animal Rights Activists Suspected

http://industry.bnet.com/pharma/10003438/novartis-ceos-home-burned-mothers-grave-desecrated-
animal-rights-activists-suspected/

Saturday October 17, 2009, 3:40 pm
THX. DEE & BILL....

Saturday October 17, 2009, 3:50 pm
TY Jossie and all the others who understand violence will not help animals only legal change will.

Also Eureka, TY for proving how so many are not informed as the the reality of what they support does, SHAC and the ALF are exactly what the law says they are. Groups like the ASPCA have helped more animals in one year that militant groups combined will help in a lifetime.

Saturday October 17, 2009, 4:26 pm
Bill C. We can all read. And here I copy and paste from your listed website:

‘SANDOZ KILLS DOGS’ painted on a trading estate’s main entrance sign: “Let this serve as a warning Novartis, whilst you collaborate with HLS, you and your subsidiary companies remain priority global targets. The ALF is watching you.”


Note: it says ALF is watching you/. It does not say SHAC at all. Why do you insist on slander????

Saturday October 17, 2009, 10:13 pm
Misty you do not understand research and "labs", yes I worked a primate research facility but you believe groups like PeTA who use shock and gore to make people believe what they see is some daily occurrence. Most of the videos you see took years to get and yes there was abuse but it was not the norm
~so yous said to me Bill.It does not take a rocket scientist to SEE what's gong on at Huntingdon!!Kudos to you animal activists and Rod you too argued with me on a certain thread like Bill does and you went on and on and wouldn't quit~you thoght you were so right,what are you 2 ,lawyers???Eureka is right o in what she said
~

Saturday October 17, 2009, 10:43 pm
ANIMAL RIGHTS ACTIVISTS IN PERSPECTIVE
====================================
Since the animals are helpless, and do not have the tools to express 'civil disobedience' some humans with GUTS are doing it for them. They face a lobby of rich bastards, a lobby of pharmaceutical companies living the high life while they wallow neck deep in the blood and suffering of animal victims; And all of this for a bogus science. The proof of this bogus science is there for anyone to read - for those who actually would take the time to do some research - without blind belief in the words of the hysterical fear mongering propaganda of those who would justify this bogus science.

When big money combines with politics the end result is always the same: CORRUPTION

When a government is corrupt, it will use the law to enforce corruption. And if the law proves inadequate, a new one will be created.

As for those who would and do so glibly use the Bible to justify the torturing of animals - may your God have mercy on your souls.

very well said,and is it ever the truth!!!!!!!!crackhead car theives,how ridiculous,how dare you two belittle animal activists that the both of you would never have the courage to fight for,your both all mouth with alot of BS!Likkei said before, the gov is allowing this and i hope some day they will all get theirs!! what i have seen inside Hautingdon Science Life is a nightmare,why can't you understand that Bill and Rod???????? I mean it took a lot to look inside and not look the other way.Trading their soul in all for the love of money to get rich and tormenting innocent animals is a much much bigger offense that you claim SHAC or ALF have done!Noone will convince me otherwise and i mean noone!!Punching a dog in the face,tormenting cats,and God only knows how many they have really hurt in a very inhumane.cruel,cruel way!!!Don't either of you understand the art of compassion????You both are politicians that argue your way through! JUST TO PROVE YOUR IN THE RIGHT.EVERYONE HERE IS WRONG BUT YOU TWO???iNone knows anything but you.I said it once and i will say it again HSL is wIckedly evil and it did not take much to convince me of that when i saw the pics inside HSL.Dogs with long horrible looking tubes on their mouths and standing in cages(many dogs)that ahd been tormented and in great suffering,It was a horror scene.It will haunt me the rest of my life! those are the one's that sholud be in prison i tell you,bunch of scum bags dirty rotten fillth of the earth all for products like splenda.tHERE IS SOMETING VERY SERIOUSLY WRONG TO MAKE MONEY OFF THE TORTURE OF ANIMALS AND I WISH THE PLACE WERE BURNED DOWN

Saturday October 17, 2009, 10:46 pm
Bill you say,you are cripple.what so you think is beong done to animals in labs??Their more than crippling them.Why don't you admit to it.?

Saturday October 17, 2009, 10:48 pm
Not Me My Mom Thought I should be a Lawyer; But when I leaned How "Flexible" Thier Ethics Were I chose Not.
My Lifes Work is To Varied to Go into it all;
But Presently I am a Union Home health Caregiver;
and a Parent of an Almost 30 yr old Brain Tumour Survivor...
..Brain Surgery on Live Subjects was Helped By Vivisection;
or Would you Rather My Daughter Died on the operating Table at age 7..?..

Bill has Spent Most of his Life Working with the Mentally Ill; So I would Say he has a Pretty Good handle on Delusional Behaviours; Self Justifying Megalomaniacs, Sociopaths and Other Dangerouly Unstable Personalities...

Saturday October 17, 2009, 11:29 pm
people pay taxes every where and that includes animal activists and they have a right to know where their money is going to,and that includes in labs as well.is that not the truth?The gov does not seem to care.I saw the video on you tube where there was a huge protest of april or may of this year and i believe in London where members of Shac and others pprotesting against HSL and Bristol Meyer i believe.It was a very peaceful protest and there were people in the THOUSANDS there protesting.Now, a bad organisation would do that for their animals???Let me tell you something Rod. I have taken care of sick people all my life and disabled people as well.My husband too has cancer for 2 years now.I still would prefer thay don't test on animals.regardless.Nothing will change my mind on that isssue.When a member of you family suffers,you suffer with them.would i rather your daughter died on the opearating table you said.Oh come on, don't talk stupid.I would rather my husband did not have to have radiation and be on hormones either.But i will not give credit for it on vivisection.!!! Like i said i have worked with handicapped individuals all my life too, but i don't agree with vivisection and i don't have to agree with it either.I do not want to discuss this with you any further.you once said it was ok for a woman to drag her infant daughter through a store and you so no wrong in it.But you neglected to mention that daughter could have been injured in the process,so good by.

Sunday October 18, 2009, 12:47 am
Your Attention to Details is obviously Tunnelvision only for your Causes;
as the Story You refer to was about a Young BOY not an infant girl.
and My issues There were with All those that would judge;
and Condemn the Mother with that Video as the only evidence of "Abuse" The Video Showed No Contact with ANY Obstacles Even though Some of You Claimed it Did and a Clothed child Dragged on a Polished Floor is Not in and of itself ABUSE. That is Up to a Jury to Decide; Not he C2 News Kangaroo Court.. By the way Gorrily is a friend of mine and the remark about Her Attaking a Crackhead car thief is Just What she claimed She did ; She Found him, Jumped him, and Kept on him till he was taken to Jail.
I have done the same recently with a Purse Snatcher and Took a beating Doing it..So Much for your Argument that I have No Courage; I just Prefer To Stop Criminals, Rather than Suporting them; as far as Cosmetic and other "Vanity" Animal Ressearch; I do not Support that; Nor Does Bill.
And I Will Never Support terrorism By ARA's or the USA..
However You Support and Promote Arson; or As Your "Wish" Clearly shows...

Sunday October 18, 2009, 1:13 am
oh no, you got a very big misunderstanding going on there and i knew you would be back.Mu cause in not tunnelvision,where do some come up with these self made words???LOL young boy or girl dies not make any differnce. But young enough to strap the boy down so the mother thoght,Now, if it were to happen here it certainly would not fall in the norm. I do not support arson or terrorism that's about as far from the truth as you can get.I support animal rights and there is a big difference.I have nothing agaist Gorilly so you got that all wrong too! It was not up to you determine that it was or wrong,now you say it's up to a jury to decide or were you on the jury panel?But more than likely most mothers would not approve or fatheres either.It amy have been a polished floor,but with all the customers going in the store anything could have fallen on that floor,you don't know that.Me supporting arson and terrorism is not the truth,so don't put words into my mouth,that is not what i said.Supporting that woman dragging a baby is not normal and you thought it was alright to do so.NOT CORRECT!!!! Ajudge or jury will agree i think,unless you think your a attorney.

Sunday October 18, 2009, 1:35 am
yea, i said i wish huntingdon would burn down as a figure of speech but i'am a million miles away,so how could i do that?But you support vivisection and is that any less violent????Mostly coming from HLS??? Or any other laboratory??I still feel the same i hate that place and any lab that tortures aniamls in and i don't agree with cosmetic testing for vanity reasons and i will have you know, i buy all cruelty free products for makeup to dish soap to cleaning solutions to hair color and i stay away from walmart.I also boycott P& G,can you say that?It shouldn't stop at cosmetic testing,it should stop altogether!!!! So you say you don't support cosmetic testing but you support HSL testing and tortuing animals for splenda???Do you think that's the right thing to do????It's all gone on for years with this company and you think it should continue,is that what your saying?Animals get diseases and sick too like humans do and they feel pain too,do you have any religious beliefs at all?????Do you think the lord would approve of HSL doing those things to his animals???????????????

Sunday October 18, 2009, 1:57 am
I'i'am from the usa and i'am no terrorist.you strted this argument with me first

Sunday October 18, 2009, 2:04 am
you are lying if you accuse me being a terrorist from the usa and where do you think your from,the USA and you continue to terrorize me,just becaus of my beliefs and i have not been here too long,so how am i supposed to feel???

Sunday October 18, 2009, 2:21 am
"But young enough to strap the boy down so the mother thoght"
What?
Where in that vid did that happen?

"Me supporting arson and terrorism is not the truth,so don't put words into my mouth,that is not what i said".?.

No This is What You Said:
"tHERE IS SOMETING VERY SERIOUSLY WRONG TO MAKE MONEY OFF THE TORTURE OF ANIMALS AND I WISH THE PLACE WERE BURNED DOWN" Which is More Supportive of Criminal Terrorism...
..than My Saying; I didn't see Clear evidence of Abuse in the Woman Dragging her Med Small Son; NOT "Baby"...

Supporting that woman dragging a baby is not normal and you thought it was alright to do so.NOT CORRECT!!!! Ajudge or jury will agree i think,unless you think your a attorney."

Again you are Projecting Some Lawyer Myth onto me with all your other Distorted Ranting...

Sunday October 18, 2009, 5:49 am
Sadly Misty you do not have a clue what goes on in labs beyond youtube.

Yes I am cripple and in 1994 the ALF blew up a fur lab at Michigan State, sadly they also blew up a DNA lab designed to stop the use of the live animal and set research using DNA with neuro conditions back 10 years.

People like me were called "collateral damage", so don't tell me the ALF or SHAC never hurt a human being because I am one they hurt.

You claim animal research is useless and does nothing.

Let me take one very small area of research that would not exist without animals in research, woman's reproductive rights. How do you think the women of the world would react if all of a sudden there were no birth control pills, patches, rings, no IUD's, no spermicidal gel, no tubal ligation not to mention no invitro.

It simply places women in the position they were in 50 yrs ago, they have the rhythm method, condoms and no control over their reproductive body. So the question is simple if all of this was removed and the choice was either accept the value in research or loose it what do you think would be the outcome?

I dare say women of the world would be outraged and research would continue.

To say you support SHAC and the ALF but don't support violence equals saying you support the KKK and are not a racist.

Misty did you even look at the AAALAC site from the link I provided? HLS is one of over 775 research facilities approved by them, so if you "shut down" HLS what will you do with the other 774?

Like it or not this is a legal issue, the law says what is being done is legal so they ONLY way to stop it is change the law regardless of how anyone feels if we are really a society that wishes to protect we must work to change and enact law. If we slowly change law thru species limits, reducing number caps, require non-proprietary research to be shared to stop redundancy, by the time medicine advances where need become reduced we will be able to reduce needed numbers to a trickle. I worked in medicine for a lifetime and for many (not all) in mental illness research gave them their life back, who are you to say they do not disserve that?

All violence and destruction does is solidify the concept that more and harsher laws are needed to deal with ecoterrorism, the fact you had so little control with the written word is a great example, believe it or not your statement that you wish HLS would burn down because of money being made borders the limits of AETA.

If you wish to see how seriously Care2 treats this on their "help request" you will find a direct link to the FBI with this statement:
To report internet related crimes, you may file a complaint with the Internet Crime Complaint Center (in partnership with the FBI).

This is partly because the ALF and SHAC use social boards to plan actions.

Violence and destruction hurts the chance for legal change thus hurting animals.

One thing you better note are there are very few people posting here that support militant activists, they support legal change.

Sunday October 18, 2009, 6:36 am
Bill C you are becoming very nasty lighten up I think it sounds like you want to run like a hare but hunt like a hound there is no happy medium I feel you are losing your argument by bringing the FBI into it ha ha you seriously do not know how the majority of us feel on this site one way or another so stop the sweeping statements
Misty is very knowledgeable lady and passionate about her beliefs why bring Care 2 into. It sounds vaguely threatening stop this. At the end of the day we all love animals and should care some what about each other Have a good Sunday

Sunday October 18, 2009, 6:48 am
Ditto Marie. When logic fails - when bitterness and hate prevails - then a draconian law is created. And for one Care2 member to threaten another in this manner is reprehensible. But Bill C. has done it before and he will not stop. If one is a Bible believer, then one would know that the Creator has absolutely no problem in taking human life when their scummy behaviour becomes just too much. And no silly law to hide behind either.

DOES THIS MAKE GOD A TERRORIST?????

EEEESSSSHHHH. I am now terminating my tracking of this filthy propoganda and stupid threats. I would advise Misty to do the same - our energy is better spent elsewhere.

Sunday October 18, 2009, 10:37 am
Bill C you are getting too carried away now you are starting on apartheid go and make a nice cup of tea I think every one has left the site God Bless

Sunday October 18, 2009, 2:30 pm
so what if i said what i said Rod,i have a right to my opinion on this thread as much as anyone else and you Bill can go to h***,i know one thing,i hope the 2 of you are not married because you showing yourselves to be arrogant overbearing cocky men that demand you way and everyone else is wrong.You both can spend all day and night arguing with others and it won't get you anywhere but guess what i will be doing?searching the web and finding ways to help the earth and planet in any way i can.While you blubber mouths can waste you time looking like 2 idiots and God help you wives and family!!I have better things to do you than argue with 2 uneducated individuals that have not enough intelligence to act like mature men.May God have mercy on your souls.

Sunday October 18, 2009, 2:39 pm
My How the Delusions can Cause "Creative MissUnderstanding"
Bill made NO SUCH THREAT..!...
.. But was Merely Pointing out That C2 Takes These Issues (internet Conspiracy to comit Terrorist Acts) Very Seriously as they Should; and his reference to: "very few people posting here that support militant activists, they support legal change.".
is Clearly About this Thread; Not the Hole of C2 Where the Zealots Try to Overwhelm The Sane Ones of us Here.
and this next Quote is Priceless:
"then one would know that the Creator has absolutely no problem in taking human life when their scummy behaviour becomes just too much. And no silly law to hide behind either.

DOES THIS MAKE GOD A TERRORIST????? maybe;
First Gather Evidence of "Gods Criimes" serve "Her/Him/Them" with an universal Warrant; Find a judge and Jury that Will take the Case "Without Prejudice" Then Prove Beyond a reasonable Doubt that GOD Did What you claim,
and the "Scummy Behaving Humans' Did not Take thier own lives Thru a Series of "Unhealthy Choices" But since as of Today NO ONE Has Gotten "God" To step up and Claim Responsibility For What You Accuse him of..
I would have to Call your Claims Delusional and or Manipulative; As Most of the Bible is..

besides;
"Someone who Believes That about "GOD" Must Be Realy Dissapointed in "God" For Not taking Out All Thier Enemies Allready..

Personaly If I ever Met the Judao/Xtian God of Vengance, Sacrifice, and Petty Vindictiveness; I would Call HIM Out as The Bully and Coward He was. However Since I don't Believe in that Sort of Boogeyman in the Sky; I doubt I'll have the Chance..
His Followers Seem to Want To "Him" Save Them From Themselves; While using ""His Will" To Justify All Thier Crimes against Humanity..

How is That Working out For Ya'll...

Sunday October 18, 2009, 2:42 pm
Rod: you are the one with distorted ranting and Bill is acting the same,don't you get it???????Oh brother,why waste my energy on 2 ignoramus fools

Sunday October 18, 2009, 2:57 pm
Green star to MISTY, EUREKA, CHAR, LIZ and MARIE.

Not noting... and take a look back at the NEWS SUBMITTED link to the right.
This person has an agenda, not one single story submitted to actually help animals, only to label and demonize those who are trying to stop the violence against animals.

Sunday October 18, 2009, 3:01 pm
Oh and green star to Joanna, and to the one past member who was likely yet another driven away by this same 5 year old old tripe.

Sunday October 18, 2009, 3:32 pm
No Echo every story dedicated to stop militant animals rights action, legally labeled so in the UK, USA, Switzerland, France, Germany and so on as eco or domesic terrorism.

Violence will never help nor has it ever helped animals rights or welfare.

Sunday October 18, 2009, 3:34 pm
Neither have you. :)

Sunday October 18, 2009, 4:12 pm
10 ways to be classified as a terrorist by the USA government


I have translated and shortened this from a bulletin of Equanimal:

10-Sabotage of corporate property: ALF & ELF have commited illegal acts that damage business property, not people; the gov has made stronger punishments for "this kind" of terrorists

9-Falling inlove w/ an FBI agent, like Erik McDavid, processed for sabotage and conspiracy to federal installations in the name of the environment, got 20 ys of prison. His work was helped by Anna, an FBI agent who gave him instructions on how to make bombs, financed food and transportation, he fell inlove and acted, which took him to prison.

8-Going to vegan dinners:Antiterrorist FBI agents use their sources to infiltrate vegan promotions

7-Protecting privacy: FBI and antiterrorist forces have orders to spy on all activists in the USA, including peaceful ones; many don´t want their pictures in the FBI files, so they use bandanas and such in protests, the gov says this is terrorism; a group of antiterrorist forces arrested an animal activist in Va for wearing a mask, 4 others in Ca

6-Trapping them in their own game:A Utah legislator promises a new eco-terrorist law whose only objective is the head of environmentalists, specifically Tim DeChristofer, who "cheated" several landowners by promising to buy their lands, not doing so and then stopped a legalization of oil , part of the packages, the state legislator says DeChristopher´s offer was a scandal and thieving of private property

5-Arresting symbols: Activists organized a protest upon the republican convention in Twin Cities, working w/ various legal organizations saying they wouldn´t stand for just a picture or symbolic act of civil disobedience, but they were going to stop the dynamics of the economic system and business logistics;the gov arrested 8 of the organizers before the protests even started for conspiracy and promotion of terrorism

4-Being an advocate w/ no regrets:The gov hasn´t advanced much with investigations of ALF & ELF, but they focus on sympathisers of them, like Stop Huntingdon Animal Cruelty for building a website posting illegal actions of this company

3-Going for the exploiters $$:Not stealing, but the Animal Business Terrorism Act5 classifies an ample spectrum of activities such as loss of benefits an animal exploitation business might have

2-Going to the root of the problem:When activists go beyond the questioning of incandescent bulbs or low energy consumption, and are effective in questioning fundamental aspects of the economic system, that´s what they consider a real terrorist

1-Being effective: More than any other,THIS is the way to be catalogued as a terrorist, like shortly after the historic victory of proposition 2 in Ca, the HSUS was labelled as a base for terrorists

Sunday October 18, 2009, 4:19 pm
Oh - and a green star to Christian, whose posts all seem to have disappeared.

And I shall quote him

UNTIL ALL CAGES ARE EMPTY

Signed, an old child.

Sunday October 18, 2009, 4:21 pm
Wow..The above comment from Liz ( 4:03 pm) should really be removed..

I have not seen Bill attack one personal here in spite of the very personal name calling that a few here have insisted on doing to Bill..

Care2 please remove the very offensive remark that I just flagged..Seriously..not only is the mention of the private parts of anyone here..completely off topic..it is also extremely offensive..low.. ignorant and rude..and very uncalled for..

Grow up Liz..it is obvious that it is "you" who has the problem in being disagreed with..

Sunday October 18, 2009, 4:27 pm
I am certain Christian's comment were removed because they were personal attacks..So anyone sending a star to him..well that speaks clear and loud..

Bill..I applaud you for standing your ground here in this matter of SHAC..ALF..or any of those extremists..And for doing so..with respect and truth..which is a lot more than I can say for a few others here who are being so hateful..so disrespectful and childish..

Sunday October 18, 2009, 4:32 pm
Yes the words

"UNTIL ALL CAGES ARE EMPTY" is definitely a "personal attack." LOL

I saw his posts, they were in response to the typical repeated antagonizable tendancies from good ol Bill.

I wonder why you didnt complain, Dee, when Bill accused me of posting porn on his share, which he could never prove because I never did it. Was that not offensive?

Sunday October 18, 2009, 4:33 pm
Liz thank you for proving me correct. If you think lack of control and violence that is a result of it, will solve anything your very wrong.

Maria the FBI defines it :

Eco-terrorism is defined by the FBI as "the use or threatened use of violence of a criminal nature against innocent victims or property by an environmentally-oriented, subnational group for environmental-political reasons, or aimed at an audience beyond the target, often of a symbolic nature." [3] The FBI has credited to eco-terrorism 200 million dollars in property damage from 2003 and 2008, and a majority of states within the USA have introduced laws aimed at eco-terrorism.[4]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eco-terrorism

Sunday October 18, 2009, 4:46 pm
Echo unlike you I have no need to save things people post on my comments nor shares you left long ago. Why would I? The people that are offensive don't earn it.

I tend to think people who don't see the get picture don't see the fact Care2 has ads from the leukemia association, Ronald Mcdonald House, Komen and many others who support this site and the need for medical testing.

I never asked anyone to agree with me, I have never said one word against legal actions. But when anyone thinks it is OK to destroy or bomb in the name of animals they need to be treated for what they are; criminals.

Sunday October 18, 2009, 4:47 pm
"I saw his posts, they were in response to the typical repeated antagonizable tendancies from good ol Bill."

Eles..Just because someone thinks differently..Just because their opinion..and I might add the truth here..is again different from yours or others..does not make them antagonistic..And truly that proves who the ones are that cannot stand to be disagreed with..

If anyone is being antagonistic..it is those here commenting so personally and so hateful towards "Bill"

And again I applaud Bill for not sinking to that same level as some of you are..

Sunday October 18, 2009, 4:50 pm
You cannot currently send a star to Bill because you have done so within the last week.

Sunday October 18, 2009, 4:57 pm
"I never asked anyone to agree with me, I have never said one word against legal actions. "
I don't support violence either, (and if memory serves Bill, he already knows this), so how is it my opinion is the subject here of disagreement here?

Bill, I never, never, ever posted that on your shares, that you accused me of, and you never apologized for wrongly accusing me of it on a public forum either.

"the use or threatened use of violence of a criminal nature against innocent victims"
Interesting, that is exactly what is being done to animals, in many circumstances.

And BTW, I have lived through FIVE years of these antagonizable tendancies, so denying it or using some sort of circular logic to justify it isn't shaking it with me.

Have a good nite.

Sunday October 18, 2009, 5:01 pm
I have never wrongly accused you of anything.

Sunday October 18, 2009, 5:03 pm
Wrong! you accused me of posting porn on your shares, which I never did. Why cant you admit you were wrong?

Sunday October 18, 2009, 5:16 pm
"And BTW, I have lived through FIVE years of these antagonizable tendancies, so denying it or using some sort of circular logic to justify it isn't shaking it with me."

Well.. then maybe it is time for you to cease being so antagonistic..It is very clear and obvious that you and others have come here to be nothing but antagonistic..

Care2 has made it clear..time after time..to note or not note..and when one decides to make comments..be it in a group..or in the news stories..to do so without going off topic..and more importantly without personally attacking the poster..

I see many here who have not followed that rule..Porn and penis's..and the personal hate certainly have no place in this news story..and or any of the name calling and accusations made here..

Care2 supports research..As Bill said..they do help to promote those places that indeed to fund the research..and I know they are avid animal lovers..however..I think most of us agree there must be a better way..and most of us strive for that..But we do so peacefully..not with threats..bombs..and hate and criminal activities..such as the SHAC..ALF..ELF..and PETA do..

Sunday October 18, 2009, 5:20 pm
Liz c you are a good caring person also Eles Dee C I think you should read Bills comments again he comes across as if he has a power complex. He appears openly hostile to almost everyone who did not agree with him.
Please go back and read his response to Eureka for example hand on heart was that necessary. All he has achieved is to clear the site of everyone that even slightly disagreed with him. Wow this is the first time I have come across him.

Sunday October 18, 2009, 5:21 pm
Eles..That is my point..You are being very antagonistic and very off topic here with that nonsense..It does not belong here..

Sunday October 18, 2009, 5:26 pm
Marie..Just where and what did Bill post here that was hostile..or would show he has a "power complex"

Show me..for I cannot see it..But It is very easy to through words around to flame someone..which is just what you are doing..And I do certainly see where you and a few others have become very personal..and very angry in that you are being disagreed with..

Sunday October 18, 2009, 5:30 pm
But It is very easy to through words around...lol.. should have been "throw words around"

Sunday October 18, 2009, 5:32 pm
But you can't see that you are being Antagonizing, Dee?
You are posting toward anyone who disagrees with Bill.
Ironic isnt it?

Sunday October 18, 2009, 5:43 pm
Nothing ironic here Eles..and no.. I am not being antagonistic..but I am annoyed at the very off topic and hateful..very personal comment made here..

I know for a fact many here disagree with Bill in some things..and many of them "respectfully" said so..That is the difference..I don't care who disagrees with who..Everyone has the right to their own opinion..

What is truly a shame and disgrace is that some who do disagree have to stoop to things such as hate..disrespect..and name calling and talking about porn and penis's..What the heck does that have to do with this news story..

Nothing..nothing at all..other than to demean someone you personally do not like and or agree with..and it is disgusting..shameful..wrong..and extremely childish..Not to mention against Care2 rules of engaging here..

Sunday October 18, 2009, 5:54 pm
Dear Dee C I am going to leave you and Bill together you have so much in common and that is what the sites are about meeting others like ourselves you have now become the mouth piece for Bill you are both a double act at least you are making me smile and I am happy for you both I mean this sincerely Please do not think I am being glib I also know that special feeling when you meet people on sites that you gel with instantly and it is very rewarding I wish you both goodnight until another day God Bless

Sunday October 18, 2009, 6:00 pm
Well..I suppose that was much easier to post..than to back up your dishonest accusation that Bill was being hostile..and a power monger..

Case in point..
Glib..no..antagonistic..yes..

And once again my choice of friends has nothing to do with this news story..but thanks for your interest..

Sunday October 18, 2009, 6:13 pm
There are certain Issues and persons here who Flood the News With thier Agendas and stories that incite others to make "Wishes" and other Borderline Terrorist/Murderous Thoughts/Statements; and after more than a year of trying to Give a Second Perspective and Respond to the Posts that incourage, Justify and incite Violence; I have pretty much Backed Off;
for the sake of Keeeping my sense of humour up and my blood pressure Down; (and to try to get along with Eric)..
.. That Doesn't mean I will Let Every veiled Threat, or off topic Putdown Slide However;
Nor Does it mean that I will Tolerate ya'll Coming into Bill's News Thread and Jumping all over him for Sticking to his principles..
You All have plenty off Back Patting Sychophant Groups and News Threads to play out Your Egostroking Delusions of World Dominance and Total Animal Liberation in.. This Ain't one of them...

Sunday October 18, 2009, 6:15 pm
Dee--you have missed my point. It is healthy to have differing points of view and opinions-but that is not the case here. If you cant see that bill--AGAIN--does not allow people to have a differing opinion then I dont know what you are reading. bill has threatened me in the past. Interesting that you would say that bills point of view is the truth--so you are the same as Bill then--only your view of things is fact and truth???? small minded of anyone to think they are always right--that is the problem that many are having with Bill. Perhaps your spectacles need to be strengthened.

Sunday October 18, 2009, 6:17 pm
UNTIL ALL CAGES ARE EMPTY---YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sunday October 18, 2009, 6:36 pm
Threatened you? Get a grip Liz you were informed of the laws that govern militant activists, period. Try reading what you said to me right here and now. The story is about a court decision that real people involved in activism have been holding their breath for. Just like when in 2006 the convictions happened, this site went into an uproar....for about 3 weeks. Some people see things thru and others is scream and yell and move on accomplishing nothing just like SHAC did.

I find it offensive anyone thinks thay have some right to attack the welfare of another human being, thru harassment, destruction or assult all because they need an ego boost and call it for animal rights.

The world trend is to shut all types of terrorism down, but those who attack their own neighbor diserve a special place and AETA is going to give it to them. If you think Care2 does not see the difference in people who make an effort to be civil and act human verses those whose need to feel important makes it OK for them to insult, your as blind as I believe you are.

SHAC-7 were convicted in 2006, lost the appeal 2009 and if you understand the way the legal system works (which I doubt) you will see this go to the supreme court where I hope they loose again but I defend their right to use the system legally.

Sunday October 18, 2009, 6:42 pm
so we have another here who is anti animal activists. can spot them right out. right away just looking to flag someone and hurt that person that doesn't agree with bill.How vidictive can you get.just looking for something to get back at that member aren't you????? Well, the queen has spoken and she thinks she can call the shots.and decide who's right or wrong.What were you in charge of a laboratory???Or are you judge,jury and executioner??? I WILL TELL YOU SOMETHING LADY,THE ONLY ONE THAT HAS BROUGHT ALOT OF THIS TROUBLE ON IS BILL HIMSELF AND EGGING PEOPLE ON TOWARDS A ARGUMENT STIRRING THINGS UP HIMSELF.TOO BAD YOU CAN'T SEE THAT.THE MAJORITY RULES HERE.WHY START A STORY JUST TO STIR UP OTHER MEMBERS?THIS IS A DELICATE SUBJECT TOWARD TRUE ANIMAL LOVERS AND THEY HAVE DONE NO WRONG HERE.ONLY EXPRESSING THEIR FEELINGS,BUT FROM WHAT I CAN SEE, BILL HAS TO GIVE OUT SNIDE REMARKS TO ANYONE THAT DOESN'T AGREE.NO PROFANITY WAS SPOKEN BY THE POOR LADY YOU WANT TO TURN IN. HMMMM MAKES ME WONDER.BULLY

Sunday October 18, 2009, 7:04 pm
THIS IS NOT FOR YOU BILL: ALSO,PETA DID NOT KILL 90% of ANIMAL IN THEUR CARE,THEY HAVE DONE ALOT OF GOOD!!!!!!! THEY GOT AVON TO STOP USING ANIMALS FOR TESTING AND THE BOIVIAN MILITARY FROM USING ANIMALS IN MILITARY TRAINING,I HAVE THE ARTCLE AT HOME AND THEY HAVE DONE ALOT MORE THAN THAT??rEVLON DOES NOT USE ANIMALS IN TESTING HAIR COLOR AND PETA HAD PLAYED A BIG PART IN THEM CHANGONGTHEIR MINDS,RATHER THAN SPEND YOUR DARN TIME FINDING FAULT, WHY DON'T YOU LOOK AT THE GOOD THESE ACTIVISTS HAVE ACCOMPLISHED AND GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF THE SAND AND CLEAR YOUR COBWEBS.OK BILL,THAT'S ENOUGH,I DON'T KNOW WHAT COLLEGE YOU THINK YOU GRADUATED FROM,BUT THIS COMMENT IS NOT INTENEDED FOR YOU.WHY DO YOU TAKE THINGS ON SUCH A PERSONAL NOTE? THIS HAS BEEN GOING ON SINCE YESTERDAY AND IT HAS GOT TO STOP SOMETIME,UNLESS CARE2 STEPS IN.

Sunday October 18, 2009, 7:12 pm
Actualy Misty PeTA kills 95% of the animals they take in, since they are a 501(c) they are required by law to report to the state of Virginia vets office which is public record.

In 2008 PeTA found adoptive homes for 7 animals, yep seven and they took in 2,216 which means they killed 2,209 and thats public record from the government of Virginia. An ASPCA shelter less than 5 miles away adopted 75% pf their animals.

Here is the link read for yourself: http://www.virginia.gov/vdacs_ar/cgi-bin/Vdacs_search.cgi

Sunday October 18, 2009, 7:14 pm
No Liz..I haven't missed your point..and again you do make it clear..Just because someone disagrees with your thinking..you do not like them..And that is fine..completely your right and choice..And from what I have seen in your comments they are far from healthy and or respectful..

Let me very clear..long before I came to care2..which was originally in 2000..Long before I even knew Bill..I was dead set against these terrorist organizations like SHAC..ALF..and places like Peta..and the humane society..None of them in my opinion have done any good..and those like ALF and SHAC are simply sick extreme criminals..who do nothing but hurt the the true animal activists..and give them all a bad name..So it is and has always been my own point of view..

I am grateful to know people like Bill..and like Care2 itself..as that is what they stand for..

I am and have been an animal activist since I was very young..I am not however one who would blow anything up..set fire to..or threaten anyone or anything in any way..I protested..(peacefully) did petitions long before Care2 was even around..

I strongly believe in the cause of helping animals..People who mistreat and torture them are nothing but scuzz buckets in my eyes..and they make me sick to my stomach..

However I do not see "medical" research in the same way as some here do..and I am proud and grateful to be on a site that is very much for animals..yet also does not discount medical research..Care2 has always had my utmost respect for that..

I hope very much in my time..there will be a change and that any medical research will not need to be as it is for animals and for humans..(Yes humans are in many clinical trials being tested on just as animals are) And anyone who doesn't know that..doesn't know much then..

Have there been a few scuzz buckets out there who have horribly mistreated animals in research..yes..and they don't belong there at all..

I believe in strict guidelines to protect both animals and humans in that process..absolutely..and those who do not follow those guidelines..need to be dealt with..

But..those who feel it should not be at all..well..they are indeed entitled to feel that way..however.. they are not entitled by law to blow things up..threaten or harm anyone or anything in any way..shape or form..And anyone who feels it is okay to do that..does not have my respect..nor do I want to be associated with..

And I am also grateful to have friends here who..even though we disagree..they do not hate or personally attack me..or boot me off their friends list..And for those that do..well no loss there as friends..real friends can respectfully agree to disagree..and do so with class..
And I am happy to know them too..

So when you post something like.. "you are the same as Bill" Well clearly that speaks loudly..not just of what you think about Bill.. but.. anyone who thinks alike against your thinking..

Sunday October 18, 2009, 7:18 pm
Bill I hope they stay right where they are..I hope every motion they put in is denied..and I feel safe to say that the law and justice will prevail in this..

Sunday October 18, 2009, 7:20 pm
Anit bombing..Anti fire setting..Anti threatening..

And proud of it..Imagine such a world where anyone who thought something was wrong they could justify blowing things up..Hmm..sounds like a terrorist to me..

Sunday October 18, 2009, 7:24 pm
132 notes and great comments..with the exception of maybe 4 or more who have commented here so personally and so disrespectfully..

But we all are the opinionated A-holes..

That's pretty funny..

Sunday October 18, 2009, 7:45 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2lZ13730V0 shac city shakedown Feb.2009 if interested

Sunday October 18, 2009, 7:53 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJliInPlcOI~~ protest in london and look at the pics of what HLS has done to thier animals!!!! PETA HELPED ME AND CONVINCED MANY MOVIE STARS TO BECOME NON-MEAT EATERS

Sunday October 18, 2009, 8:39 pm
There is no sense in trying to reason with these types with an agenda to demonize animal advocates. Peta doesnt even run a shelter. There must be hundreds of thousands of animal advocates out there and maybe just a handful who commit any violent crimes. Yet that is all that has been bill's focus for many many years now. Seriously there is no use in trying to educate him and his friends, they stick to their agenda, tunnelvision. Condemn all because of a few bad eggs. You cannot educate these types with evidence, many have tried over the years here on care2 and it never, ever works. Just like I never ever did what bill accused me of. So it's no use. But I do appreciate the info and hope others will take a look too.

Sunday October 18, 2009, 10:31 pm
Eles..no one here has ever tried to demonize animal activists..Just the criminals..and those who back them..and or the phonies such as peta..
I see nothing wrong with Bill's focus..There are far too many who would stop at nothing..all under the guise of saving an animal..Far too many shelters who gladly take your donations.. but care little about the animals kept there in disgusting..unacceptable conditions..

Peta indeed killed animals and admitted to it..In quite a few cases they were caught doctoring there so called video tapes..And much of what has changed for the better was not because of peta..but true animal activist and their petitions to stop certain events..Yet peta has no problem making false claims that they were responsible for the good..Donations to them are very misused..Most of it goes to their personal use..and to their rediculous advertising..and has even funded these underground terrorists..

As for ALF..SHAC..they are no better than any other terrorist..I don't care what their cause is..Terrorism is dead wrong..and should be stopped..

The human society..well they can keep Michael Vicks..They are as bad as peta..Too many big heads in there misusing funds and member donations as well..

I assure you..personally speaking I do not need you to educate me..and I am also pretty sure the others don't need the type of education you would be offering either..

Yes some of us do stick to our agenda's..nothing wrong with that..especially when the real matter here is the truth..I don't wish to support anyone or anything that supports violence..or is a farce in any way.. That is not tunnel-vision..for I am open minded enough to be able to see the truth and not just blindly follow peta or ALF or SHAC..no matter how much they claim to "love" animals..

I am and have been a vegetarian most all of my life..but I am not so narrow minded that I feel the world should be like me..just because I am and I don't assume everyone to believe as I believe..and if not refer to them as "those types..

That sounds extremely narrow minded..

And again..no one here has condemned "ALL" You are making this up as you go along..Those who have been condemned are..SHAC..ALF..ELF..peta..and or those who believe it is okay that they do the same thing as a terrorist would do..

Personal details that you keep bringing up..that have nothing whatsoever to do with this news story..simply should not be here..That is a form of bullying and trying to intimidate someone..

Glad to see Bill is above that level..Seems like you need a bit of educating on how to act as a decent human being and not flip out when someone doesn't agree with you..

Sunday October 18, 2009, 11:19 pm
For those who seek the real truth..

The truth about Peta
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PILlSj1hsHU

I Love Animals..But I hate Peta..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lR2DE-mGf00

http://www.animalscam.com/

Monday October 19, 2009, 5:26 am
Misty if it took PeTA and celebrity to change what your diet is all that says to me is so can someone else. Perhaps if you understood how alive plant are you would stop eating many of them and only eat things designed as food that regenerate, grass, bark, nuts, berries and seed. Millions of small animals die in harvest of grains, there is blood on every soybean, wheat germ, corn and anything harvested by machinery and not by hand. Diet is a choice it is not compassion.

I see you did not respond to the fact PeTA kills just as was said so you try to change the topic to diet, just like not one female responded to the concept of removal of all reproductive control women now have totally thru animals in research. So every time you take your birth control pill remember a mouse died for it.

Women sure did not complain before home pregnancy tests were available, the way they found out if you were pregnant was to inject your urine in a rabbit, and after killing the rabbit they surgically removed her ovaries to tell you the "good news". So how many rabbits have animals in research saved with the development of HGCG test kits?

Science is pure and a 2 way street.

People who support the ALF and SHAC will regret it in time as the worlds courts are sick of them. Puerto Rico has banned PeTA protesters from entering their country, the German High Court convicted PeTA of crimes against humanity this year, billboards PeTA puts up are being torn down, the last one was to imply the H1N1 virus can be avoided if you go vegan, total BS. Over 60 school system have banned PeTA from their campus, the DEA raided PeTA and found them using a controlled illegal for them to use pesticide/herbicide in the PeTA headquaters. The substance the took is Pentasol

Here is a description of Pentasol that PeTA was putting around their building to control insects and plants, but yet PeTA has a site called living in harmony with cockroaches, they don't want you killing them but they kill the crap out of them and use a toxic pollutant to do it: http://www.helpinganimals.com/wildlife_livingWithRoaches.asp

Pentachlorophenol - Compound Summary (CID 992)

An insecticide and herbicide that has also been used as a wood preservative. Pentachlorphenol is a widespread environmental pollutant. Both chronic and acute pentachlorophenol poisoning are medical concerns. The range of its biological actions is still being actively explored, but it is clearly a potent enzyme inhibitor and has been used as such as an experimental tool.

Try being educated past youtube and you will find some reality. Like this year PeTA took 2.76 million dollars of donated money to help animals and bought a 100 yr old 3 story home in DC, gee I wonder who will retire to that nice home?

Yea their ethical.

Monday October 19, 2009, 7:08 am
I need to apologize to Rod. I included your name in error. I am very sorry.

Monday October 19, 2009, 10:08 am
That was not directed at you Bill-my opinion of you has not changed. Dont comment on things that dont concern you--isnt that a point you were trying to make on here? I have already got what I deserve from this thread--many green stars and new friends.

Monday October 19, 2009, 12:24 pm
no,no,no Bill.It was just not Peta that convinced me, it was the farm sanctuaries i visited and my own research.But i do not appreciate anyone insulting some very intelligent kind hard working animal advocates on this news thread.Why are you fighting to give animal advocates a bad name???Why??You and your friend are trying to make them all look mentally incompetent.The stories you are pointing out about peta, and others could all be old news.also, i do eat nuts berries and seeds for starters.If i gave you the list of all i eat i would be here until midnight.,You say peta is not ethical.Are you talking ethical or reasonable or sensible insulting everyones IQ??? If all does not agree with you,you have to correct them!!You act like you think you know it all.Pardon me , but i beg to differ.It apperars to me,if you can't handle and respect other peoples opinion,than there might be a problem and you may need to do some self inventory.There are alot of good people fighting for the rights of animals and that truly care about their welfare and it takes it does not take much too figure that out,there are optimists and pessmists. And i choose not to prefer the latter.Bye

Monday October 19, 2009, 12:45 pm
It would be interesting to find out how many times you have been flagged Bill as you are so good at maths ??????

Monday October 19, 2009, 4:13 pm
Don't feel bad Liz, not that you do.. but a few of Bill's posts have been removed as well.

Monday October 19, 2009, 6:08 pm
No Liz Care2 has not contacted me at all. But thanks for asking.

The information that violence will never solve any issue with animals rights or welfare is here, the conviction and upholding of said conviction is here. That was the message.

Wednesday October 21, 2009, 6:03 pm
We are all free to have our own opinions on anything..however..here in the news..what we are supposed to do is express out opinions in regard to the story submitted..Not on the person who submitted it..and certainly not personal comments of such a hateful..derogatory.. condescending way..

High road..That is laughable..and even if it is the truth that anyone from Care2 said that..it is very inappropriate..quite tacky actually..to repeat it here..And again..your above comment just speaks loud and clear of your character Liz..and your true intent in coming to this thread..

High road..Since when is discussing the size of a man's penis..because yiu don't like their opinion considered the high road..Whoever said that from Care2 is gravely mistaken..that is If they really said it..which I doubt they did..

Wednesday October 21, 2009, 8:25 pm
"We are not dealing with some relatively harmless "animal lovers." These are full-fledged terrorists. The groups that encourage their war on research, fast-food chains, new housing developments, and university laboratories, include People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals who raised $28,072,597 last year in donations and earnings. Its front group calling itself the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine took in $10,180,969. The Humane Society of the United States raised and earned $74,015,068. Other comparable groups raised millions as well.

Such groups are not just passionate advocates for the proper treatment and care of animals. They exist to mislead a public that already loves animals, but understands that, with all other aspects of life, there has to be limits when wildlife conflicts with humans and there has to be respect for private property and the right to conduct a legitimate business."


Read entire article here..
http://www.canadafreepress.com/2006/caruba011606.htm

Thursday October 22, 2009, 6:54 pm
"We are all free to have our own opinion on anything..however..here in the news what we are supposed to do is express our opinions in regard to the story submitted not on the person who submitted it and certainly not personnel comments of such a hateful derogatory condescending way:

Hand on heart can you and Bill honestly say you have both practiced what you are preaching in that paragraph I dont think so

Anyway GOOD NIGHT sleep tight it appears everyone has left the site Love and Peace energy for another day xxxxxxxx

Thursday October 22, 2009, 10:03 pm
"Hand on heart can you and Bill honestly say you have both practiced what you are preaching in that paragraph I dont think so"

Marie..I can't speak for anyone but myself..and that was my comment not Bill's..And yes..I can say clearly and proudly I do not personally attack those I disagree with..I will stand my ground as to what I feel on something..but do it respectully..I do not sink to the gutter to make my point..Never did..never will..

However..you are free to think whatever you desire..

Thursday October 22, 2009, 10:08 pm
Thank you Care2..for removing the offensive comments..

And I see more have noted Bill's news story here..I thank those of you who are my friends..and animal lovers and advocates..yet..that you all agree that the way these extremists go about their false claims of helping animals is just plain wrong..

We all need to stick together..change laws..peacefully..legally..and always find a better way..for all..

Friday October 23, 2009, 5:00 am
Marie what is your solution? Until we find effective ways that do not use animals, and we do have complimentary ways that cut the need back also all discovered with medical research not thru any action of any animal rights group, all in use everyday how will you deal with AIDS, Cancer, MS, Diabetes, Alzheimer's, heart disease and too many others to count?

Choices are simple, let the people suffer and die or find a better way. Medicine and research have alternative research at every major university, we use everything currently in our power, but its not quick enough for some. I regret that but in mans history medicine is a baby, we have made more strides in the past 50 years than in our entire existence. Perhaps is was better when a medicine man chanted over a dieing child to save the child, it just did not work, modern medicine with all it failings works.

Perhaps we should follow the Father of Animal Rights Peter Singer who believes and wrote that humans should have the right to kill any newborn child under 28 days old that was "defective", kind of like how in many non-human animals species the deformed or slow baby dies and it is better for the species. Is that OK with you Marie?

I find humans much different than non-humans, equality stops at biologic life where all things are equal including plants.

The point is violence hurts legal changes, stops progressive science and is legally considered ecoterrorism.

Friday October 23, 2009, 5:10 am
I understand why animals lovers go to the extreme because they want to be heard and not ignored. For how long are activists pleading for vivisection to end and all other animal laws to be made stricter.

Friday October 23, 2009, 8:35 am
Juile your from South Africa. What is your solution to the AIDS pandemic without research?

Every drug being given away to save life came from animal research.

All can be heard using the pen verses the bomb. I agree people are frustrated, but humans have a large frontal lobe for decisions, you can support any cause and make progress without violence.

Friday October 23, 2009, 11:41 am
Imagine being abused or exploited - then abandoned - by people who don't understand the value of your life ...

For the hundreds of thousands of animals who suffer needlessly around the world each day, this is all they know.

You and I together, with compassion, integrity and a hands-on approach that relies on sound science to rescue and protect animals, must be their voice.

I'm pleased to tell you that as a supporter of IFAW, you are already helping to protect animals from cruelty, threat and neglect ... and your continued support will help them long into the future:

... caring for pets in the world's poorest communities through spay/neuter clinics to reduce the numbers of homeless cats and dogs as well as deliver basic and emergency vet care.

... leading an aggressive campaign to end Canada's cruel commercial seal hunt which kills hundreds of thousands of baby seals as young as three weeks old each year.

... sending our emergency relief team to rescue animals from disasters such as the China earthquake or the worst bushfires in Australian history.

... as well as continuing programs to help nurture orphan bear cubs, protect elephant families from poachers, stop whaling, and so much more.

IFAW delivers critical programs to help animals in more than 40 countries around the world thanks to caring people like you. And every new voice we add to our network around the world builds a better future for both animals and people

Friday October 23, 2009, 12:31 pm
Thank you so much Misty IFAW was started by Brian Davies.

"Davies received a payout of about 2.5 million Canadian dollars, payable over seven years, on leaving IFAW in 1997. This to enable IFAW to continue to use his name and image in their fundraising after he had left.[6] Through the Brian Davies Foundation, IFAW invested money in organizations that carry out animal experiments, such as Bausch & Lomb, US Surgicals, Glaxo, Merck, Abbot, Upjohn, Philip Morris and McDonalds."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Fund_for_Animal_Welfare

It pays to be informed Misty but thank you for support of IFAW.

Friday October 23, 2009, 12:48 pm
See I am not the only one who holds a negative opinion of you Bill. However, I will say that I am AGAINST any killing.

NO KILLING humans to save animals.

AND

NO KILLING animals to save humans.

PERIOD.

Those who become extremists in either way, legal or not, must be dealt with in a way that they will be deterred from killing any HUMAN OR ANIMAL, again.

Friday October 23, 2009, 12:54 pm
You cannot currently send a star to Joanna because you have done so within the last week.
along with a few others who could receive stars on this news...much love and peace...namaste

Friday October 23, 2009, 2:14 pm
Dar I would tell you my opinion of you but this is not the place.

You support the actions of violence the SHAC and the ALF do which are totally illegal.

You just made an "interesting" comment; "Those who become extremists in either way, legal or not, must be dealt with in a way that they will be deterred from killing any HUMAN OR ANIMAL, again"; shows your disrespect for the law, your lack of control and support for the illegal activity of groups like the ALF and SHAC.

Thanks for making that statement, I greatly appreciate it.
From Care2's TOS: "You agree to not use the Service to intentionally or unintentionally violate any applicable local, state, national or international law". (which is all SHAC and the ALF do)

From the COC: " Illegal activities - No Care2 member may use our services to promote illegal actions or to instigate illegal activity from other Care2 members". (which is all the ALF and SHAC do)

I say violence is not the way and bombing a persons home or car is violence regardless if it kills them or not.

Friday October 23, 2009, 3:47 pm
IFAW invested money in organizations that carry out animal experiments, such as Bausch & Lomb, US Surgicals, Glaxo, Merck, Abbot, Upjohn, Philip Morris and McDonal~~~~~~~~~~~WHAT?? WHERE DID YOU READ THAT??? If that's the case,as you say,if put in the open it surely would back fire on them,when exposed.So, what your saying is,if you support IFAW your giving your money towards this organisation that relies on donations from fans and their investing their money to help carry out animals experimentation??? So their really lying to us?????Investing money from their fans just to make more money????For self profit???how ridiculous,i say.

Friday October 23, 2009, 4:11 pm
Misty I provided the link from wikipedia no matter how ridiculous you feel it is.

Just Google: Brian Davies foundation animal research IFAW, read for yourself.

You did not believe PeTA kills 95% of the animals they take in either, the link from the state of Virginia Vet sure proves they do does it not?

Your passion is great but your knowledge is limited. Just balance the 2.

Medicine is working hard to find alternatives, not militant "animal rights activists", violence will solve nothing, become informed change will only happen thru legal venues.

Friday October 23, 2009, 4:22 pm
"You support the actions of violence the SHAC and the ALF do which are totally illegal."

Bill, I will humbly ask you to not slander my name again, as you review my last comment.

NO KILLING humans to save animals.

AND

NO KILLING animals to save humans.

PERIOD.

I will add, since it is necessary for you.....

NO VIOLENCE AGAINST OR KILLING humans to save animals.

AND

NO VIOLENCE AGAINST OR KILLING ANIMALS to save humans.

PERIOD.

I am RESPECTFULLY asking you to STOP spreading lies about me and others on this site...much love and peace...namaste

Friday October 23, 2009, 4:48 pm
Dar here is the fact, this thread is about the appeal of the SHAC-7 who lost their appeal. You say "Those who become extremists in either way, legal or not, must be dealt with in a way that they will be deterred from killing any HUMAN OR ANIMAL, again".

Sounds to me you clearly approve of what SHAC did as you do the ALF and have said so in other groups. So it's not slander but lets see what you support.

Dar in front of all your friends, do you support he direct but illegal action/tactics groups like SHAC use, such as destruction of property, threats, harassment and a myriad of other things?

Simple question Dar, I respectfully ask for your honest answer.

Friday October 23, 2009, 6:33 pm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International`~~~~ok ~i did read this on fund for animals welfare and how disappointing.members and donors should truly do some thorough research as to where thier money goes before they decide to give out some charity.But honest people giving out their money while this company is taking in money to support animals(supposedly) and the people are believing in that it is going to a good and worthy cause and than they puts their monies and invest the monies into companies that supports and does research on animals would be a fraud. and deceitful.How sickening. this is how i interpret the story.the donors should send them a letter of dissaproval and reprimand them for it.

Friday October 23, 2009, 7:02 pm
TY for reading Misty, the IFAW does very positive things, their ocean programs are world known.

There mission statement says "The International Fund for Animal Welfare works to improve animal welfare, prevent animal cruelty and abuse, protect wildlife and provide animal rescue around the world. From stopping the elephant ivory trade, to ending the Canadian seal hunt and saving the whales from extinction, IFAW works to create solutions that benefit both animals and people".

As I have said I am pro needed medical testing, I am also pro legal approaches to change laws. I have seen way to many people needlessly suffer and die from disease we can beat.

I am very well versed in the reality of many of these groups, I have been effected by them and researched them. I speak the truth that people do not wish to hear, but as you have seen it is truth none the less. As it stands, if the AETA-4 are federally convicted, and the State of California follows suit (which they have already said they will) support for groups like the ALF and SHAC on social boards is going to place the format and it's own rules in a legal Catch-22.

Violence is not the way regardless of how you feel about research and your 100% correct information that is fact is valuable.

Saturday October 24, 2009, 7:25 am
Bill has apparently been there when SHAC and ALF are committing these alleged crimes. Since there are varying articles and opinions on whether these groups are actually guilty or not. But since you are so absolute in your knowledge--I have to ask if you are a member of ALF or SHAC bill?????? There are differing points of view on this topic, but as usual yours is the only truth in your opinion. Anyone compassionate to animals have realistic opinions about the necessity of animal testing. I am totally against animal testing and I have to wonder how anyone can be PRO for animal testing. I for one could never work for a lab of any description-torture is torture and I have seen too many videos and read too many articles-but you bill have had no problem working with labs. That speaks volume about your care and concern about animals in general. Do you look at companion animals as things that should be tested and tortured?

Saturday October 24, 2009, 11:26 am
No I am not a member nor do I support in any way the ALF or SHAC, fairly easy to be absolue here Liz, this thread is about SHAC loosing an appeal, they did to to jail.

Yea Liz I worked in a lab that saved the Aye Aye and lemur, and you watch videos. I am pro needed medical testing and no I have no problem.

You eat meat but somehow feel it's wrong to gain medical knowlege from a mouse under strick regulations and vet care, but just fine to kill a cow to fill your belly. Amazing logic.

Saturday October 24, 2009, 3:12 pm
Bill, again....., as I have and I will continue to take action for your slander against my name that I also work very hard, for many causes.

My friends and I don't agree on every issue of life, but that is okay..., it isn't my intent to only make friends with those who agree with everything that I feel is right or wrong. You, Bill, want it both ways.., to torture and kill animals for your betterment of health, but to not be violent against humans for saving animals. That is the place you place your own self in a community of activism. I say NEITHER is acceptable. Violence is never a positive longterm action, it is only a negative bandaide that can spawn horrific tragedies.

Those who know me here, know exactly what I am saying, and I thank you all for the stars....So for Bill's "enlightenment" I will again say

NO VIOLENCE AGAINST OR KILLING humans to save animals.

AND

NO VIOLENCE AGAINST OR KILLING ANIMALS to save humans.

PERIOD.

Saturday October 24, 2009, 3:22 pm
"The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated." Gandhi, Mahatma

Saturday October 24, 2009, 4:10 pm
And Dar as I read your profile your diet was listed yesterday as "eat almost anything" but since you read my comment you changed it to include many types of food but you also eat meat. So how does no violence or killing to save humans fit in when your eating meat to save your life?

You can't answer a simple question of do you support the ALF and SHAC?

There are 2 choices, yes or no. To not answer screams loudly.

I have not slandered you in anyway your using a trigger word to draw attention.

Saturday October 24, 2009, 4:15 pm
You ASSUME too much, Bill, wayyyy to much, heh, heh.

Saturday October 24, 2009, 5:13 pm
so you are saying bill that your lab only used mice and they had constant vet care? I do not believe you. send me a video of this lab and the vets that offer all of the animals care. I await the video. I have seen t he strict regulations and guidelines at some labs--LOL.

Saturday October 24, 2009, 5:50 pm
Liz apparently you do not read much that is posted, I worked a primate lab, for lemurs. You know very little about labs, research is done in ways you apparently do not comprehend. The biologic compariability of humans and lemurs is astounding. Did you know lemurs aree the closest human relative that hibernates? They get many of the same diseases we do especially with age. Since you lean from videos have a go at learning.

You want video here you go:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HB_fQ1Rg_K4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmXWhmxW-6E

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWlGnb0zxSE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iA4Bcdim-U

Please feel free to comment and when your done adopt a lemur at:

http://lemur.duke.edu/tours/adopt.php

Saturday October 24, 2009, 5:57 pm
Dar I do not assume you changed your profile not that I care but you apparently do, I asked you 1 question you have not answered and anyone reading knows why that is.

So here is another yes or no question that is direct and to point, do you eat meat? Liz does and says so, Misty does not and says so and yes I do. I could care less about what you eat but whn your doing the Ghandi quote routine the question of consumption is relevent.

An easy question to answer.

Saturday October 24, 2009, 6:37 pm
We can all babble day and night. What it really came down to was, what are we supposed to do to be able to live in this world, without getting thrown in jail for terrorism, which has come down to financial issues, and live with ourselves not harming other creatures and the environment, and doing something to stop the ones that do harm, not looking away...personally, I have been in places where the bulldozers were destroying, like the Green river valley, rolling over the trees and the only reason I didn´t bomb them was because I didn´t have a bomb, and I haven´t eaten meat, worn hide or anything that might hurt somethimng to the best of my knowledge, and I can´t stop others because I don´t know how to stop them...it´s overwhelming...but another reason, the main one, is because I don´t want to loose my freedom.

Saturday October 24, 2009, 7:39 pm
Bill, my profile info of this question was made over two years ago, so I am not sure what your conflict is with my page, but I do hope you like? :)

I do not eat meat, Bill.......LOL.

AND...., don't you think you are desperately seeking something to grab on to me with, that perhaps....., is "self-defeating?"

Sunday October 25, 2009, 4:48 am
Good for you Dar, interesting though since you list that you eat seafood and one of the primary animals used in research are Zebra fish, so you enjoy eating the fish but I hate to tell you fish is flesh. Remember Nemo?

Now do you support SHAC and the ALF?

I would never wish to "grab on to you" Dar; I would never grab on to Tammy Fay Baker either. Fact is had you not posted on a story about a court case I would have had no interaction with you, but you keep posting which keeps the story hot, so thanks.

Sunday October 25, 2009, 4:54 am
TY Maria, your point is clear and well received. Laws are there to deter.

Sadly SHAC and the AETA-4 are not as smart as you and do not realize one impulse action can destroy a life. If they are convicted under the federal mandate and then the state follows I do not know what the prison time is in California for Arson to an occupied dwelling and attempted murder; but that will be what they face.

Sunday October 25, 2009, 6:07 pm
Anyway, judge for yourselves, as the victims can´t
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WTSUGetKFc

Sunday October 25, 2009, 6:10 pm
And I don´t base myself on videos

Sunday October 25, 2009, 6:47 pm
I am so glad to see them willing to risk their freedoms to rescue those poor tortured souls. it is so unethical to mistreat an animal, we are supposed to be their caregivers, these are not ours to destroy, not matter what I do in this world, I want to know I go to God with clean hands. how can a man do that after killing one of Gods creatures for selfish gain? this is such a deliberate abuse, what kind of sick and evil mind can do this?
that was well put, Dar, no killing of man to save animals, no killing of animals to save man.

Sunday October 25, 2009, 7:13 pm
Bill, sorry I don't eat Zebra fish, again, you shouldn't assume. You would be taken more seriously, if you would listen to others, more than desperately slandering them. There were hawaiian tribes that were cannibals, but I don't eat people, neither. Everyone who commented understands everything I am saying, but you. We can't force you to understand Bill. That you have to do all by yourself. Your insults only show your ability to communicate in activism.

Monday October 26, 2009, 3:48 am
Dar..with all due respect..there are many more who have noted (138) and commented who are against these groups..and their illegal tactics..

And..even those who have "respectfully" stated they are against animal research..have not used this thread because they have an personal agenda with Bill..or anyone else..

Everyone is entitled to their own feelings and opinions and choices in life..EVERYONE..However.. sadly.. those here who keep coming back to this thread are doing so for one reason..and one purpose only..One if you has already been warned by Care2..A few of you had comments removed by Care2..

Dar..your very first comment here was...

"See I am not the only one who holds a negative opinion of you Bill. However, I will say that I am AGAINST any killing."

That is baiting..that is personal..and again..with all due respect.. no one really cares what you or anyone thinks of Bill or anyone else..
Why can't some people just stay on topic..debate the story..Care2 news should not be a negative free for all..for those who have personal issues with others..

The same can be said to you and those who oppose.. No one can force you or anyone else to understand..It is called choice..You choose to feel as you do..and other choose to feel as they do..

Out in the world in my life.. I came across a few radical extremists..all in the name of animal activism..But here in Care..there are many..and some of them are very hypocritical..and quite nasty..

One can throw around all the quotes they can drum up..they can sign off with "Namaste" They can speak of enlightening others..However..one must not just talk the talk..they need to walk in the actions of such claims..
And personally speaking..your actions do not match those words..

Nor have you been insulted or slandered..Seriously..you should cease to throw all those words around so lightly and so incorrectly..

Monday October 26, 2009, 4:51 am
for all interested, there is so much info at this site on animal treatment and how immoral it is to use them to death:

http://www.uncaged.co.uk/iard.htm

Monday October 26, 2009, 5:08 am
Dar tell us why in the open to view group you host you tell them your pulling away from "activism" to work on your spiritual self, but yet your here just to..........actually I do not know why your here. Also I don't care what you eat, you miss the point. Just like you miss the point of activism means change not aggression and I know what you support, you are click orientated, you will do pretty much what it takes to stay in good standing in a group of friends.

I do not know why your feel insulted, you should be proud of what you are, as far as slander if you keep using that word against me I will complaint to Care2, as slander is lying that harms a person. I have said nothing that harms you nor is not truthful as you know as well as I you have posted support for the ALF in the ASPCA group and your refusal to answer a direct question removes all question of any slanderous statement. Plus you clearly say "legal or illegal" in your post, so to claim slander is humorous.

You have a nice life working on your spritual self I wish you much luck.

Monday October 26, 2009, 5:11 am
Shelia do you encourage your own child to risk their freedom committng illegal acts?

Monday October 26, 2009, 5:23 am
Sheila..that may very well be your own opinion.. which is your personal right to feel as you do..

However..many others feel differently..and that is their right as well..

Animal research helps animals and humans..
http://www.bret.org.uk/nec3.htm

ABOUT ANIMAL RESEARCH IN MEDICINE
http://www.tpc.tulane.edu/public_about.html

Benefits of Research
http://www.kids4research.org/teens/benefitsresearch.asp

When Animals Help Animals
http://www.swaebr.org/Resources/When%20animals%20help%20animals.htm

There is nothing immoral in this..

Monday October 26, 2009, 6:59 am
The fact that SHAC had their appeal denied does not mean they are guilty. How many people are in prison that are innocent? The U.S. Justice system is certainly not perfect.

Monday October 26, 2009, 8:46 am
Justice was indeed correct in this case..And these people are not innocent..they are criminals..who did wrong and broke the law..and that is why their appeal was denied..

Monday October 26, 2009, 8:48 am
It was way past time to crack down on those that think they can not only take the law into their own hands..and to so in such a criminal way..But that they think they have the right to make choices for everyone..They do not..

Monday October 26, 2009, 9:00 am
Of course not Liz and De-Nile is not just a river in Egypt.

Don't see any comment from you about the primate research lab I worked in either Liz, you asked for videos I provided many.

Curious as to why you do not respond, animals are in cages, tested, samples taken, disease studied, DNA assessment, reproductive studies. All the things you wish to stop.

That lab is accredited by the exact same group that accredits HLS, under the same laws.

Funny how that works.

Monday October 26, 2009, 11:56 am
Dar Sheila Maria Liz Misty Echo Julie in fact most people on the site I wish I could send you more stars you are a wonderful caring feeling bunch of people I think you are all aware now that Dee C is the judge and Bill is the jury so do not disagree with anything they say it will be twisted out of all proportion. They should both note that sarcasm is the lowest form of wit I really do not know why you are leaving comments for them they just tear every one to pieces constantly repeating themselves but never answering any meaningful questions. They rip into everyone My love to all I have sent the stars to Goodness and kindness will prevail. I an sure Care 2 has noted their underlined viciousness to us all

Monday October 26, 2009, 12:21 pm
True Marie, and thank you. I will make this my last comment, since my efforts are only being desperately twisted for their agenda.

Dee, with all due respect, I have no idea what you mean by "baiting" and I do believe I shared my opinion of the OP and the article, honestly. Read again, without the influence of what Bill is whining about, and you will realize, hopefully, how I agreed that I am AGAINST killing and violent actions towards humans AND animals. Perhaps, you didn't realize that I too, NOTED the story..................

You fail to acknowledge that Bill took this off-topic, Dee, many times. Especially, when he, again, attacked my beautiful profile page, as he has in the past, many times. I believe you are the one not seeing things clearly, but that is your choice.

It is beyond me how you feel others are nasty, and Bill isn't...., bizarre, infact. Supporting animal testing is even more disgusting, in my opinion.

Bill, does have good within him, but his unbalanced actions put him in a place of his own negative state.

Monday October 26, 2009, 12:24 pm
Oh and

much love and peace...namaste

Monday October 26, 2009, 12:29 pm
Dee, also please learn what the word "namaste" means, as it has nothing to do with "enlightening another" nor is it "religious"......I have no clue how you came up with that one. I will continue to take action against those who slander my name or others that work very hard in activism.

Monday October 26, 2009, 12:37 pm
"as you know as well as I you have posted support for the ALF in the ASPCA group"

Again, Bill, stop posting lies, as this is a false statement, and slander against my name. Action taken.

Monday October 26, 2009, 2:01 pm
Supreme Court sets precedent over animal rights activist attack

Swedens Supreme Court has upheld a landmark ruling in which a 30-year-old animal rights activist was convicted for his involvement in storming the premises of four companies and harassing members of staff.

The 30-year-old Malmö resident was sentenced on charges of aggravated unlawful entry by the Swedish Supreme Court.

In 2005, the man was contacted by members of a British animal rights organisation. The organisation had made a number of threats and carried out attacks on British company, Huntington Life Sciences (HLS), which participates in animal testing.

http://www.thelocal.se/22888/20091026/

Seems Sweden is a bit sick of it too.

Monday October 26, 2009, 3:26 pm
Then perhaps the logical people on here should move to Sweden!!!!!I know I am sick of it...............

Monday October 26, 2009, 5:29 pm
Please do comment on the story and NOT on each others beliefs and profile content.

Thank you.

Tuesday October 27, 2009, 8:53 am
They are working on changing animal and or human research/testing..However until there is a better way..this is the way it is..Animal research does not just help humans..It helps animals as well..I am not referring to cosmetics..and or household products..I am referring only to medical research..

I just feel that those who do not wish to be medically helped..or have their pets medically help..fine..that is a personal choice that anyone can make for themselves..and or their children or their pets..

But for those who do want to see medicine/surgery suceed for themselves..their families..and pets..they also have the right to choose..

And bottom line is no one has the right to blow up anything or threaten to blow up anything..or to bring damage and destroy ones personal property.. or to threaten to..And those that do it anyway..hopefully will be charged to the fullest extent of the law and go to jail..That is where criminals belong..

Tuesday October 27, 2009, 8:55 am
You cannot currently send a star to Care2 because you have done so within the last week.
Thank you Eric..

Tuesday October 27, 2009, 2:12 pm
Today in militant activism an attack or vandalism done at the University of Iowa in 2004 has placed Carrie Feldman now 20 yrs old in a real catch-22. She has refused to testify to a grand jury and took the 5th amendment, she will have another chance in November.

She has not been told what the grand jury wishes to ask her but suspects it is regarding the ALF action where 400 rodents were "rescued" and 30 computers destroyed doing $450,000 in damages.

As our system works refuse to testify in front of a grand jury can place you in contempt of court for the remaining time of the grand jury, meaning 11 months in jail.

What will she accomplish? Ruining her life, change nothing, loss of family and after all is done if the DA includes her she will face many more charges that she is likely not guilty of, she was only 15 hen this happened and likely just knows bits and pieces of information of what really occurred.

Look at the worlds response, Sweden upheld the law, UK upheld the law. Germany convicted PeTA of crimes against human beings for their Holocaust on Your Plate, Puter Rico has banned any PeTA demonstrators from entering their borders.

Violence, disruption and harassment will not help change law. Calm and legal attempt will and have been slowly working for many years.

Hedonism is not the solution, it is ego center self fulfillment.

Tuesday October 27, 2009, 4:58 pm
isnt it sad that the rodents had to be rescued???????? I guess she is doing what she feels is best--morals. It is her choice.

Tuesday October 27, 2009, 6:18 pm
No Liz what is sad is when a childs life is possibly ruined beyond repair and other humans think it is OK.

I dare say millions of rats are killed everyday in cities around the world as vermin control, why are they not being "rescued" ?

Tuesday October 27, 2009, 8:27 pm
UNTIL ALL THE CAGES ARE EMPTY.........................................

Wednesday October 28, 2009, 4:45 am
Liz you never made a comment on the Duke lemur center, do you want those cages empty also? Do you wish entire species wiped out becuase you say so?

Sorry Liz.

Any parent who would scream until all the cages are empty if her 15 yr old daughter commits the crime, that at her age was peer pressure to fit in, or adut manipulation should be charged with child abuse and put in jail..

Yelling is the next best thing to being right.

Wednesday October 28, 2009, 7:11 am
UNTIL ALL THE CAGES ARE EMPTY.

Wednesday October 28, 2009, 7:52 am
We had a woman here in my town..while boycotting tuna..unlike the many who legally protested..she went on rampage..with her 11 year old son..They both were kicked out of the store for blocking the tuna fish..and removing cans from peoples carts..
The police escorted her out and she was warned..However..they didn't stop there..

They both set out to deface peoples cars that she noted who bought tuna fish in a store..
They both spray painted "heartless dolphin killers" on the windshields..and they actually threw a lit cigarette into one of the cars..which proceeded to catch fire in the parking lot..

She went to jail..and rightfully so..he sadly was placed in a youth detention center..(Juvenile hall) ..I say sadly..because we are responsible in what and how we teach our children..and she certainly taught him the wrong way..

That was many years ago..We have no idea where she is..but her son went on to rack up many more offenses..At this time he is serving a prison sentence..He is only 26 years old..but obviously had his life ruined by such criminal activity..encouraged by his own Mother's actions..

So chanting "UNTIL ALL THE CAGES ARE EMPTY" Well that does depend on how one sets out to make them empty..and those who opt to do it in a criminal way..end up the losers..and nothing good comes to the animals..

Quite foolish and wrong..There is always a right way and a wrong way..Those who choose the wrong way..well.. hope they all end up in jail where they belong..

Wednesday October 28, 2009, 9:17 am
Liz you have apparently run out of any debate or comment, you wish all the cages empty, I have to believe that includes the caged SHAC members.

How about Robert Pickton, will you adopt him? I feel sure he feels the same as you about laws and responibility. You claim SHAC being in jail and loss of appeal does not make them guilty, well Mr Pickton feels the same.

Scream all you wish, it's you right but you better learn where and when to do it because outside this format standing at someones who works in research home at 3 am with bullhorns screaming is against the law.

Just as it would be if the researchers stood outside your home for whatever your legal work imnvolves did the same and set it on fire as was done to them.

Over time Militant animal activists will kill more animals thru hindering change than all the labs in the world combined.

Wednesday October 28, 2009, 10:08 am
I will not be told how to think-and will not be told what to do. PERIOD.

Wednesday October 28, 2009, 11:45 am
No but you will be told by the legal system where you will be when you violate common sense human standards of law. Little children fall to the floor and hold their breath, but you know what, even if they hold it till they turn blue and pass out, they will start breathing again and still not get the cookie.

Acting like adults will change laws, acting like out of control kids will make existing law stronger. That 15 yr old who 5 years later faces life altering decisions, is learning what her parents should have taught her long ago. The parents will not face the potential punishment for their poor job, the child will.

Reality is Liz those of us who understand what the real fight for animal rights involves will not be told what to do either. Violence and aggression will solve nothing, changing laws and caping species, numbers and stopping redundancy will.

Wednesday October 28, 2009, 12:06 pm
"Violence and aggression will solve nothing.."

Exactly, but unfortunately..., as long as there is Animal Testing..., which is a horrific act of violence and aggression...., there will be extremists who will REACT.
AND
as long as there are extremists, who engage in horrific acts of violence and aggression, there will be people who will REACT.

It is a vicious cycle, until humanity stops Animal Testing, where everyone loses.

Wednesday October 28, 2009, 12:22 pm
The fact that SHAC had their appeal denied does not mean they are guilty. How many people are in prison that are innocent? The U.S. Justice system is certainly not perfect

Wednesday October 28, 2009, 1:25 pm
Dar tell that to the millions of children saved in the past 2 years in Africa and India 100% from vaccines found thru animals research, research is legal and has nothing to do with violence or aggression it has to do with stopping human and animals suffering. Do you give your animals rabies shots? Distemper? Parvo?

Why? all were discovered thru animal testing and benifit differenct species.

Animal medical research saves life, cosmetic testing is done because vain humans wear make-up.

If humans just stop wearing face make-up and you will stop 80% of animal testing for cosmetics. Seems like a very small thing to ask and much more effective that vandilism.

SHAC is not innocent Misty the brag about what they did just like the ALF. The lost the appal because hey feel they have rights above others and they do not.

Wednesday October 28, 2009, 6:33 pm
what has any of this to do with my Son, Bill? he is a grown man, and I don't ask anybody to do anything, I stated how proud I am of them, why do you feel you need to twist words as you so often do?
and all those lives saved could have been saved through research not done on animals, you still are pushing that belief that we have every right to do with God's creatures as we please.

yeah, Dee we all do have the right to our own opinion, is there a problem with me voicing mine? why did you have to point that out as you did, are you trying to tell me my opinion is wrong just because you and some others don't agree with it? it's so odd to me when someone does that, of course I know i have the right to voice my opinion.

Thursday October 29, 2009, 4:15 am
"yeah, Dee we all do have the right to our own opinion, is there a problem with me voicing mine? why did you have to point that out as you did, are you trying to tell me my opinion is wrong just because you and some others don't agree with it? it's so odd to me when someone does that, of course I know i have the right to voice my opinion."

My point was that.."We All do"..But I guess you missed that point..while you were so busy thinking only your opinion counted..

Opinions are neither right nor wrong..they are just thoughts..feeling..It is the actions of one that are either right or wrong..

Thursday October 29, 2009, 5:11 am
Shelia your response to my statement that young people such as the AETA-4 have ruined their adult lives as well as their families prompted this response from you.

"I am so glad to see them willing to risk their freedoms to rescue those poor tortured souls."

Do you actually think any research scientists like using animals in any lab? I will say as a general rule, all of the militant animal rights activists equate research with hating animals exactly like the extremist Vegans who claim if you eat flesh your some hideous sociopath. Why do those who project this not get how wrong they are?

Science uses every tool it has and no your 100% wrong those vaccines could not be made without animals, even insulin was discovered literally from extracting it from animals. The simple flu shot is grown in chicken eggs and all of you who claim to know alternative ways that work on the scale we need, I challenge you to prove it because you can't and that is evident in the fact that groups like PeTA who wish cloned meat was available would be proving how by funding it. They don't, what they do is evoke emotion in kids to get them to act in a way that suit their need with total disregard to what it will do to the childs life, go to PeTA2 and read their boards; it's scary and very much like the Hitler youth program.

Medicine has reduced the numbers of needed animals greatly, not because of any activist but because thy use one program to support another. If it were not for the Gates Foundation and the US Government programs in Africa and India thy would still be sending carts around to pick up the dead children, and before you ask me I will tell you yes I 100% believe the life of that child has more value as a human life than a mouse, I agree they are equal as a biologic life form and in that I say all living things, plant and animal are equal as biologic life forms.

My end goal is no need for any animal in any lab, but until that is a reality I will not remove hope and life from humans.

I respect everyone opinion, I do not respect tactics that support militant activism because it may be that single child who is 19 and involved in "activism" who has the seed planted in places like social boards that destruction is the way. I have seen it too many times here where people applaud another who come in and declares they broke into a farm and stole animals because they felt they were being mistreated, they become "heroes" and you actually have no idea if what they say is truth. But it starts the development of someone who may take that final leap and destroy in the guise of animals rights.

I do not care (in fact I encourage) if you stand outside HLS and legally protest 24/7 everyday of the year, but here is a reality PeTA had a conference recently where their "lab expert" Dr Chandra (whose PhD is in math not research) spoke to college students 100% against any use of animals in labs on college campus and she had 40 people attend; 40. When the movie PeTA funded "Behind the Mask" about the ALF opened they had a big gala premier, 13 people attended and only 7 were not either press or employees. What will it take for you and the other to discover change comes slowly and moderation is the key.

The key to change is legal, work to cap species, numbers stop redundancy and become educated as to what labs are about past what youtube and PeTA tell you, try reading scientific research it's all online, free to read.

Thursday October 29, 2009, 7:25 am
And that has what.. to do with this story..

Your personal comment regarding my name..Liz ..does not belong here..Seriously..grow up..

Thursday October 29, 2009, 10:01 am
Liz have you taken the time to note your name is liz c ? Of course not, because if you had thought you would have never made such a statement, but then that is part of the point of the story.

People who lack control and act often ruin their lives when it comes to militant animal activism. They don't think they act and they can't take that action back just as you had to have read what you posted and then realized what you said is no more than an attempted dig at people that 100% makes you look foolish by your own hand.

Rodney Coronado of the ALF, still has the same passion, he still believes in his goals, but you know what? He said in his book he finally realized the problems was the fact that he had failed himself and the animals because he projected his anger in ways that made him exactly what the governments said he was, a terrorist. He clearly says he was as much of the problem as the issues he was trying to stop and his actions harmed animals rights.

I have gained respect for the man as he said what would make more "noise" than any bomb would the a million people standing silently in-front of the white house, I agree. He speaks to the fact he has a child and how he wants his child to be an activist that learns from his mistakes, violence solves nothing, aggression solves nothing and support of it is like trying to flush a clogged toilet.

Dee and I do have much in common, we get it from a place few understand, we both have offered to be subjects for experimental treatment, we both want as few animals in labs as possible and we both are against cosmetic testing. But we are also smart enough to both get the fact that at this point in time of human medical advancement and need, we need live models. Call it what you wish, evil necessity is fine for me, but until you face medical issues like so many who support research on this site who love animals, whose life can change with medical advancement you will never understand what it is like until you open your eyes.

Dee is a vegetarian your not. So what right do you have to say much to her at all? You stopped with me because you know you will never win, just like you have still not commented on the Duke Primate research lab.

Perhaps you need to look at why your doing what you do liz c.....

Thursday October 29, 2009, 11:26 am
if that is what my Son chose to do then I would be beside him all the way. applauding the bravery of someone doesn't mean I ask kids to be criminals, again, there ya go twisting words.

Thursday October 29, 2009, 12:42 pm
Shelia with all due respect, bravery is not sneaking in the dark of night and fire bombing a human beings home with their children in it, bravery is not destroying $450,000 worth of computers and releasing animals into the wild you have no clue what their research involved.

One time (just one) PeTA "rescued" 12 chickens from a lab and they then realized they had no clue what was being researched and they killed all of the birds.

No one twisted your words, this thread is about people like SHAC who feel they are above the law, people whose ability to contain their own failings who project them onto a system.

Violence and destruction will only produce harsher law, AETA is written to be so open ended if "activists" do not quickly learn to change, that they have to do it thru legal, means the animals loose, the people loose and society loose.

Friday October 30, 2009, 5:09 pm
"When our constitution is taken away, laws are broken. When the lawmakers break the law, then there isn't any law.....just a fight for survival!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WTSUGetKFc

Friday October 30, 2009, 5:43 pm
I SUPPORT EVERYONE WHO S AN ANIMAL RIGHTS ACTIVIST FIGHTING FOR ANIMALS´ RIGHTS, THERE ARE OTHER PEOPLE THAT SHOULD BE IN JAIL AND PRISON, THE ONES THAT ARE TORTURING THE ANIMALS AT HLS, DOWN WITH THE HLS, AND ALL EXPERIMENTS ON ANIMALS, IT HAS TO STOP, WE CANNOT STAND SILENT, WHILE ANIMALS ARE BEING TORTURED, USED AND ABUSED, THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO GIVE THEIR LIVES IN THE FIGHT FOR THE ANIMALS, THEY ARE MY HEROES, and don t anyone Tell me I m wrong, WE HAVE TO FIGHT FOR THE ANIMALS, WE HAVE TO STOP THE TORTURE, I won t read any Negative BS, Go ahead write, write and write, I won t read it, IT S NOTHING WRONG WITH FIGHTING FOR ANIMALS´ RIGHTS!! WE CANNOT BE SILENT OR SILENCED,

Friday October 30, 2009, 6:06 pm
Kathy do the million children saved in the past 2 years thru vaccine in India and Africa have the rights also?

No one is remotely suggesting you be silent, we are telling you that violence, harassment, destuction, interruption of legal businnes will not be tolerated and you will go to jail and leave your family alone. Protest, do any legal means you wish to change law, but don't think for one min your have more rights than another human being.

Read what you wish but read the law as fact. So many have been convicted and all they have accomplished are 2 things, research companies moving to China where there are no znimals right protesters and making animal enterprise terrorism a federal crime.

Change law and you change things until the law is changed again, fire bomb a scientists home or harass, threaten or disrupt their life and you go to jail, spend thousnds on attorneys, ruin your life and accomplish nothing for any animal.

Friday October 30, 2009, 6:25 pm
A VEGATABLE OR FRUIT WILL ROT, ROT, ROT, ROT, AFTER A COUPLE OF WEEKS, AN ANIMAL CAN LIVE FROM 10 YEARS TO 90 YEARS, and HE WILL NOT ROT, ROT, ROT, FALL DOWN and DIE IF YOU DON T EAT HIM, AN ANIMALS IS A FEELING BEING, HE CAN FEEL TERROR, FRIGHT, DREAD, HE CAN FEEL LOVE AND TRUST, HE CAN BE DEPRESSED, AND FEEL HURT, IF HE S ABUSED OR TORTURED, AN ANIMAL IS TRUSTING, HE S LOVING, NEVER HEARD OF AN APPLE OR A TOMATO THAT FELT FRIGHT OR DREAD, OR LOVE, BUT I KNOW THAT APPLES AND TOMATOS ROT AND DIE ALL BY THEMSELVES, THAT S THE DIFFERENCE,