Wednesday August 23, 2006, 12:02 pm
You can hear an interview with the AP reporter who met with many of the girls at this link:
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/08/23/1413222

Wednesday August 23, 2006, 12:44 pm
Atrocious!

Wednesday August 23, 2006, 3:01 pm
what's up with the pic? but yeah I hate recruiters...they're all over my campus...they actually approach freshman and try to get them in the mindset to sign up when they turn eighteen. It's sickening. I mean...I don't hate all recruiters...I just dont' like the fact that a lot of them go after kids who are impressionable and wan to respect and listen to that "Guy in the uniform"

Wednesday August 23, 2006, 3:07 pm
I think there are bigger problems then this.

Over 95 percent of college rapes go unreported.
A college with 10,000 female students could experience 350 rapes during one academic year.
Nearly 1 in 4 college victims have been assaulted more than once.

Wednesday August 23, 2006, 3:52 pm
Military should be harsh on those bastards. As for girls being raped on campus, it is bad. One solution is simple: .38 Magnum.

Wednesday August 23, 2006, 5:41 pm
that is so disgusting!
and i bet they aren't punished properly either!

Wednesday August 23, 2006, 6:14 pm

PUNISHED ?! Statutory rape is a very serious crime in every state. What drove me to post this article was specifically that bit about the rapes being "handled administratively". So rapists are to be reprimanded?! In my view, any senior officer who learns of a rapist operating in his command and fails to report them to the police should be jailed as an accessory to the crime. Think what happened to the Catholic Church when for so many years the Cardinals “reprimanded” rapist priests.

Wednesday August 23, 2006, 6:20 pm
This is infuriating! Those poor women trusted the "men" in control! So much for equal rights and acceptance.

Wednesday August 23, 2006, 6:39 pm
Only 6 weeks ago a government investigation revealed that "Recruiters are knowingly allowing neo-Nazis and white supremacists to join” despite a ban. These guys are out of control.
You can read the comments on that story at
http://www.care2.com/news/member/404810293/126570

Wednesday August 23, 2006, 6:40 pm

'Anita Sanchez, director of communications at the Miles Foundation, a national advocacy group for victims of violence in the military, bristles at the idea that the enlistees, even if they flirt or ask to date recruiters, are willingly having sex with them.

"You have a recruiter who can enable you to join the service or not join the service. That has life-changing implications for you as a high school student or college student," she said. "If she does not do this her life will be seriously impacted. Instead of getting training and an education, she might end up a dishwasher."'


While rape is wrong, an adult female who sleeps with someone for a job was not raped. It is not a situation of legal control over someone.

Wednesday August 23, 2006, 6:47 pm

Blackcat: These are high school girls we are talking about - not adults.
Under the "No CHILD left behind" act, military recruiters have access to children's phone numbers, school records, and information about their families. One recruiter/rapist who IS being prosecuted used this information to target girls for rape. He selected girls from homes with single-parent mothers and no father figure in their lives. This is not consensual sex in any sense. This is rape.

Wednesday August 23, 2006, 7:13 pm
Jeff: The article is sickening (as it should be) but I'm glad you posted it. It not only informed it started discussion and debate.....sometimes that is all you need to make a change.

Wednesday August 23, 2006, 11:42 pm

'"This should never be allowed to happen," said one 18-year-old victim.

The victims are typically between 16 and 18 years old, and they usually are thinking about enlisting.

Tall and slim, her long hair sweeping down her back, this 18-year-old from Ukiah, Calif.,...

In Gainesville, Fla., a 20-year-old woman...

She was 18, an adult...'

While advantage may have taken place, many were, indeed, adults.

Thursday August 24, 2006, 6:10 am
Talk a totally biased and sensationalized report. Listen, stuff like this happens all over the world, yes the situations where the women were not censenting is wrong, but the women 18 and over, well, that was their decision like it or not. If you want to see real manipulation of young woman go to a college campus, you will probably find 3 times as many situations like this.

You are trying to make this out to be something more than it is to tarnish the reputation of our armed forces recruiters, as if they are just a giant pool of predators out hunting your daughters at night.

And you need to get your quotes right, you are portraying numbers in the wrong way:

""The increase in sexual misconduct incidents is consistent with overall recruiter wrongdoing, which has increased from just over 400 cases in 2004 to 630 cases in 2005, according to a General Accounting Office report released this week.""

This dioes not mean there were 1000 cases of rape, it means that in over 2 years there were 1000 cases of "wrondoing."

The article clearly notes that the number of women was 100. And out of those 100, how many cases were just of two consenting adults doing the wrong thing at the wrong time? In the last 3 years the average sexual assaults in this country are around 200,000. I am not saying that what SOME of these recruiters did is not wrong, but I am saying it is small potatos in the overall scheme of things, and no orginization is void of their bad seeds.

Don't use this to try and villify our military and what it does for this country now, and what it has done in the past. I have many friends who were recruiters, and they were stand-up motivated individuals, there is no reason to try and make them out to be demons, when it is clearly not the case...

Thursday August 24, 2006, 6:12 am
The average number of sexual assaults was 200,000 A YEAR...

Thursday August 24, 2006, 6:14 am
And your cover picture, what's up with that? Is that a recruiter doing that? You don't know do you? But more importantly, you probably don't care, as long as it get's them a little more frothy when it comes to thinking about this sensationalized little tidbit you created...

Thursday August 24, 2006, 8:17 am
That is a B.S. Article.

Thursday August 24, 2006, 8:36 am
Quote: " " Weirick, the Marine Corps defense attorney who has represented several recruiters on rape and sexual misconduct charges, said it's a problem that will probably never entirely go away.

"It's difficult because of the nature of nature," he said. "It's hard to put it in another way, you know? It's usually a consensual relationship or dating type of thing." "

When asked if victims feel this way, he said, "It's really a victimless crime other than the institution of the Marine Corps. It's institutional integrity we're protecting, by not allowing this to happen."

I can not fathom what the defense attorney is saying. What comes across to me is, regarding 'nature of the nature' is boys will be boys and its follow through, girls will be girls leading us to conclude it is all quite 'normal'... therefore rape and sexual misconduct don't exist. ?

"Victimless crime" other than the institution of the Marine Corps". Is he actually saying that the only victim in these occurrences is the Marine Corps?

Are there female recruiters in the Marine Corps Institution and if so, are these occurrences taking place with them? If not, maybe there should be female recruiters.

I think the article is necessary to read and think about. It is about transparency. One rotten apple can spoil a whole barrel of apples. By enlarging this issue into a defense for the Marine Corps as a whole is in actuality protecting and shielding the rotten apples from view. This in my opinion is not a wise course of action to support.

Defending with numbers depersonalizes and dehumanizes. It makes the average Joe and Jane to think in numbers only and it's thought process follow through: the higher the number determines who 'wins' so we then conclude that all of those little numbers [reminder: each one being a human being] who 'lost' don't count for much. This issue is not a baseball game.

Statistics, numbers although most important can also dilute issues if that is the only way we view an issue. They create a perceptual distortion. Rape and sexual misconduct from a victim's point of experience is a clear perception.

Thursday August 24, 2006, 10:17 am

Buck: It is not “small potatoes” when a man wearing the uniform of our country is given special access to private information about high-school girls – including their private cell-phone numbers – and uses his status, access, and power to rape children.

Georges: Like it or not, the article is not “B.S.”. It is backed up by a report from the Government Accounting Office (GAO).

Do either of you gentlemen have a daughter?

Thursday August 24, 2006, 2:59 pm
I'd feel safer with my daughter in the Military then a Dorm at Duke University.

Thursday August 24, 2006, 3:28 pm
Why are we all beating round the bush. These beasts are "child modesters" and need locking up for good.

Friday August 25, 2006, 7:40 am
Unfortunately, in this male dominated patriarchy situatons like this are not handled appropriately. These men savagely stole the soul of a young, impressionable woman and countless other women. Too often rapes go unreported, uninvestigated, and unresolved. I am glad you posted this article but it doesn't begin to dent the reality of the circumstance at hand. Women will always be viewed as sexual toys, as opposed to, intellectuals and equals of men which gives men a feeling of "superiority" and is perfeectly exemplified in cases such as this one. This was probably going on for much longer than anyone would like to admit.

Friday August 25, 2006, 8:03 am
The way I see it..... ONE rape is ONE too many!!!!! Glad you posted this article

Tara

Friday August 25, 2006, 11:07 am
The discussion on this topic (http://www.care2.com/news/member/404810293/159933) contains several troubling but illustrative comments:

DENIAL:
“That is a B.S. Article.”

RATIONALIZATION:
“stuff like this happens all over the world” and “safer … in the Military then a Dorm at Duke”

MINIMALIZING:
“small potatoes”

DISTORTION:
“many were adults” and “the number of women was 100”

DEFENSIVENESS:
“I have many friends who were recruiters, and they were stand-up motivated individuals”

IRRELEVANT DISTRACTIONS:
“your cover picture… Is that a recruiter doing that?”

BLAMING THE VICTIM:
“an adult female who sleeps with someone for a job was not raped”

DISPARAGING OUR MORAL OUTRAGE:
“get's them a little more frothy”

Those who find this news so nightmarish that they struggle to believe it can observe in the remarks above the very same mental contortions which were no-doubt used by the uniformed men who molested our daughters. They are used by perpetrators everywhere.

I’m am proud to be in the company of a hundred of men and women who noted this story and raised it to prominence. Please join us by going to this link:
http://www.care2.com/news/member/404810293/159933
Note the story by clicking on the yellow sticky note.
Thank you again.

Friday August 25, 2006, 11:30 am
Jeff, I'm glad to see that so many people noted this story!

Friday August 25, 2006, 11:40 am
Rape is rape at any age. And at 18 many girls are not as aware of their self as an adult women as we want to give them credit for. Often they are still in a testing the waters stage and may as a result end up in over their heads without really understanding how they got there.

Friday August 25, 2006, 12:58 pm
it happens, its not right either, dont get me started on the military and crimes against women! im a vet, i know first hand, i dont need a story like the one posted to reaffirm the rapes and the code of misconduct by men and women but more so men! the military tires to keep that hush hush and act like women are out on some vendetta against males. its not that, heck, if someone rapes u they rape u, its not like u have a sign on that say's "rape me, i dont mind" some of the males in the military think its their right and will tell u in a heartbeat that they will take it no matter what u do. when u go forward u will face some type of resistance, yeah, u can be blacklisted and sent to some pretty crapy units, unable to excel in ur field, no room for growth or advancement, yeah, it happens! the military will try to implement traning for soldiers and what not, but its not enough and any man or woman who's currently serviing can tell u, the rapes happen and they happen often. prior to raising my hand and being sworn in my recruiter approached me one too many times. it got so bad that i was afraid to be alone with the man and requested another recruiter. i mean the recruiters in my area were known for sleeping with the recruits. it was almost as if it was the norm but i knew better, i knew what he was doing was wrong and that i didnt have to give in. yeah, they'd lie and say they could get u into a certain field if you slept with them. i kidd u not, would promise u dinners and even went to the extent of saying how they could help you and ur family if u were in some type of financial bind! let me tell u something when ur recruiter approaches u in that manner it gives u first hand experience on what u are about to encounter when u enter the military as a female. not only is it the recruiters but ask any female who's served time in the miltary, i guarentee she will be able to share a story with u about harrasment and misconduct. i know, for i am one of the few, and proud (hooah!)

Friday August 25, 2006, 2:17 pm
There is a general pattern of moral decay in America. People accept crimes against individuals now that a generation ago would have been front-page news across the country. I'm not sure when we started to give up on "right living" but you can see how bad things get: Now a government worker can rape an underaged female and walk away from it. "Thank you litle girl for your support of the United States Military. Now be sure you finish high school."

Now, I want you to think about that picture a moment and ask yourself; who gave that man permission to take her and do what he did? You don't know? You really don't? OK, I'll tell you who, it was all of us. When we say "Meh, it happens all the time" then people who have their own ideas about morality pick up on that and sense that there are fewer (or no) moral restrictions anymore, and figure that they might as well get in on the action. It's happened many times in history, when one group of individuals is given (or takes) special rights to act outside the law or moral boundries for their personal gain. Genocide is a common result, in case you were searching for historical examples.

And here's something else you should think about: Once they get the idea that normal moral restrictions don't apply to them, you have a VERY hard time getting them to change their minds. Power and moral relativism are like drugs, that once someone has tasted that honey-sweet nectar of pure unbridled power you just can't get them to stop. Actually you can, you just have to... well let's say it gets messy.

Friday August 25, 2006, 7:01 pm
These actions by the recruiters is deplorable, and criminal.But, to use a sexually, implicit picture such as this one, that isn't posted on the site with the news article, is most definitely wrong, and can be regarded as nothing but an attempt to "sensationalize" this story. It could in fact, in some circumstances, promote undesirable behavior.

Saturday August 26, 2006, 12:07 am
This crime Rape or any other sexual atrocity has nothing to do with sex it's an act of power, by a power orientated preditor, this is not just done to women but to men also, no matter what age the victims are there should be punisment fitting the crime and carried out in each and every case, by the number of unreported attacks just goes to show how terrified the victims are witch tells me there is little or no understanding or support for the victims, it's about time the ones who are in a possition to do some thing about this stand up and be counted, this would surely go a long way in putting a much needed stop to cover ups in uniformed crime

Saturday August 26, 2006, 12:11 am
How old is the girl in the photo?

Saturday August 26, 2006, 1:04 am
Its a shame on us.

Saturday August 26, 2006, 9:57 am
Donald R. has a good point -- the photo used for the article is also showing some "exploition of female". I also agree with the feeling stated by many that this is deplorable and that "Administrative Punishment" by the military is not appropriate. It's people like that which disgust me and then when I see the comments of so many "good souls" on Care2, I am hopeful once again -- the good does exist amidst all this trash.

Saturday August 26, 2006, 10:43 am
This is sick and disgusting, yet sad.

Saturday August 26, 2006, 12:25 pm

Donald and Linda: The intention of the photo is to convey in a single glance the power relationship between these recruiter/rapists and the girls that they, in-effect, took possession of. Graffiti-ing - "tagging" - her mid-drift is a symbol of that. I also felt it was important also to confront our community with the sheer sleaziness of this criminal behavior. A drawing of the same scene might have accomplished those goals with less offense to you. Certainly no offense was intended. Showing exploitation, and decrying it, is not itself exploitative. And it's a stretch to suggest that the image will actually cause undesirable behavior. Regardless, I appreciate your comments, and there are others share your view.

Saturday August 26, 2006, 12:51 pm
Jeff, did you attach the photo to the article? I ask only because you infer "responsibility" for its intent/existence. Do know that I was glad you posted the article...that's why I noted it. I also easily understood the message that was to be conveyed from the picture, I just personally am so tired of exploition of the female in media, pictures and etc. It's only my opinion.

Saturday August 26, 2006, 1:31 pm
Linda: Yes. When posting an article to the network the we have the option to upload an expressive photo. I take responsibility for the disquiet some have felt about that particular picture. I share your fatigue at the exploitation that is everywhere. It disturbs me to have my daughter pass through the gauntlet of magazines at the grocery check out. But we have to understand that sleaze is what happened to those victims. Those girls will have to cope with the feeling of having been "sleazed" for years to come.

Saturday August 26, 2006, 1:41 pm
Thank you for your time and attention to this Jeff. I too have a daughter and share your concerns. I am so glad to see someone such as yourself taking frontline and speaking so boldly for our young women. I think that when men speak out on it is rec'd differently. I want to speak briefly to the media exploition, just b/c we have a shared distaste. I learned in my social work classes that third world countries did not have a documented history of eating disorders UNTIL television was brought into their country. Two years later... boom -- anorexia, bulimia etc. The youth, primarily women, suddenly suffered from probs w/self esteem, body image and the like. Okay, done ranting. Thank you again Jeff for your voice and posting this article!

Saturday August 26, 2006, 6:30 pm
I considered noting this, but the choice of accompanying photo made my stomach turn. Very tasteless decision.

Saturday August 26, 2006, 10:02 pm

Dani: I respect your choice about the photo. Linda T and a couple of others have exressed that concern. Molestation of teen girls by men in uniform makes my stomach turn, and the photo expresses my revulsion. You can read the discussion Linda and I had about the photo just above.

Sunday August 27, 2006, 4:47 am
This is very disturbing. I think these "men" should have their hands and penis' cut off and maybe their lips sewn shut. I am the mother of 3 daughters and also a survivor of sexual assualt. I think this kind conduct that is being "handled administratively" is B.S.! I agree with the person that said these people should be charged as "accessories" to the crime. Obviously these people that are involved in the "administrative handling" have never had any kind of sexual assault happen to them, because if they had, you know they would be fighting for a more appropriate punishment.

Sunday August 27, 2006, 9:24 am
Terri, I too am a sexual assault survivor. I have been enraged by the minimizing of rape, the blaming the victim ("she shouldn't have been out at 1 AM" or "she shouldn't have worn a tank top w/out a bra" and other crap); the delay in DNA processing; the ineffective updates of sexual registries;... people don't care until it's their wife, their daughter -- or even their grandmother (as in elder abuse/rape).

Sunday August 27, 2006, 9:44 am
This is just crap!!!! They're "Handling It"?!!! That's such a lie.... if they really wanted to handle it, these creeps would be dishonorably discharged and brought into the local police station to be charged with the crime.... IT's A CRIME!!!! I'm so sickened, being a survivor myself, of seeing more and more girls and women follow in my footsteps! This just reeks of the current Administration with their denying what they're doing and trying to keep us in check with their stealing of more power!

Sunday August 27, 2006, 9:50 am
Amen Ve A!!!
The victims of assault are "punished" (judgements, nightmares, PTSD etc) more severely than the perpetrators. Our screwed up administration is more concerned about keeping their power, being P.C. to "please" and lining their own pockets.

Sunday August 27, 2006, 10:44 am
Great article, Jeff. Thank you.

Sunday August 27, 2006, 1:06 pm
Jeff, thanks for this post. I just have to wonder why people keep thinking of rape as a sexual act when it isn't. It is an act of hatred and power. No one has the right to touch, hit, rape or molest another. This is 2006 and I am sickened by how little we acknowledge personal rights. At least there are people out there who bring these things out into the light. Thanks again.

Monday August 28, 2006, 4:11 pm
When I read this article I wondered about the recruits these recruiters give their stamp of approval to. What do they go on to do? The military personnel that are accused of rape in Iraq, for example, is there a relationship between their actions and which recruiter [predator/non predator] they first encountered? Is is not quite possible for an impressionable young man to look up to this first personal contact with the military and, in some cases, see thier recruiter as a role model? An imprinting of sorts. Many ideas can be put across from one person to another without having to say anything explicitly. I would be interested to know the results of cross-indexing.
Another way of questioning this: are the recruiters 'profiling' young male recruits and using their own profile [self-image] primarily as a standard of measurement?
What I am questioning overall, is the recruiter a significant and much influential link in a chain of links that now result in rape and abuse committed by the enlisted recruit, be it against military personnel or against civilians anywhere?

Monday August 28, 2006, 4:21 pm
That is a provocative question. Aside from the impact on men, your line of thinking leads me to reason that the young women who make through this "process" - by submitting to the sexual demands of their recruiters - are being selected for, and set up to be, submissive to sexual assault by male soldiers - especially their superiors - throughout their military service.

Monday August 28, 2006, 8:08 pm
Yes It follows or maybe better said, it is a parallel. My interpretation of what you described is coercion. To compel by force, law, authority, or fear to bring about compliance. With regards to the women who are non-compliant, it is brutal rape. I would term the former, compliance rape.
Definition of rape: forcible and unlawful carnal knowledge of a woman against her will.
f. u. c. k.

Tuesday August 29, 2006, 10:35 am
In 1974, I was 18 years old, never away from home before. I was desperate to get out of the woods and start a life. My recruiter did not "rape" me, per se, but he did seduce me. It was ALL on his pushing, I just wanted to go into the Air Force and get an education. We did not have penis penetration but just about everything in between. His wife was 9 months pregnant. He was the only recruiter within 50 miles. When I went into boot camp in the Air Force, the talk among us girls turned to recruiters. Almost every one of us had been raped or seduced or had sex with our recruiter. This was 1974! I do not see that it has changed any since then. The irony is that my father was scared to death that I was going to fall victim to a lesbian in the Air Force. He would have killed that recruiter, if he had known what was going on.

Tuesday August 29, 2006, 12:46 pm
@Queen B, i can relate to the words u posted. i too wanted to leave the woods/start a life :O). let me add that its just not the recruiters who rape but also the drill sgts/personnel assigned to training units too! reflecting back on my days in basic training...man, it was a mad house. i was 18 freakin years old (green as grass) and before i could finish basic i found myself testifying against 3 of my ds for rape & misconduct towards 8 female trainees (2 became preggers) it was a mess!

Saturday September 2, 2006, 1:26 am


Thank you for noting this News Network story. You helped make it the most noted story ever on Politics or Values. - Please join our new action group to force an end to this government-enabled sexual assault on our children. We d love to hear your thoughts, and want to keep you in the loop about petitions we will need signed, and other small actions you can take. - Thanks very much for your attention to this issue!

Please join!

http://www.care2.com/c2c/invite.html?id=1759479A4MT

Thank you again!

- Jeff G.

Saturday September 2, 2006, 2:16 am

sorry. The correct link to the group follows:

http://www.care2.com/c2c/group/hands_off

Sunday September 3, 2006, 3:11 pm
Yea it is disgusting but not too much. If you can see what they are doing with young girls and women in Afghanistan and Iraq. Allah (God) may give the opportunity to everyone on the earth to live with peace and honor, joy and happiness with full independence as he/she want to live. Aameen.

Sunday September 3, 2006, 3:26 pm
whatever.
Rape is wrong no matter what, buddy.

Monday September 4, 2006, 9:17 am
ATIQ: Doesn't "God" say "Do unto others as you would do unto me"? If so, do you wish to rape God? Put in this context, would you still say that rape "is digusting but not too much"?? No matter what "Religion" teaches, "Spirituality" teaches one that we are all the same.... and that includes women and men; girls and boys.

Personally, I don't care what nationality or race a woman is, if she's raped, it's a CRIME! And yes, I'm aware of how women there are being treated: stoned to death for having affairs, being covered head to toe, not allowed the "personal" freedom to walk about by herself... that's just hideous!

Monday September 4, 2006, 11:06 am
Very well said,Ve A.The way some women are treated on this planet is barbaric, and behavior straight out of the Stone Age..

Monday September 4, 2006, 2:14 pm
Well said Ve A and Don. And just for the record: From my understanding, the "Abrahamic Faiths", which are the Christian, Jewish and Muslim belief systems, they each place value on each and every individual. Otherwise, God cares for the American and Iraqi and Afghanistan women equally. I would hate for the opinions of Mr. Atiq to be misconstrued as basic Abrahamic faith belief. How unfortunate and sad that he has chosen to feel that way.
Both when I was living as a spiritualist and when I converted to Christianity, dignity, worth and value were always central within the belief system.

Wednesday September 13, 2006, 9:45 pm
Protect teens from recruiters
http://www.care2.com/c2c/groups/disc.html?gpp=3626&pst=407536

Tuesday February 27, 2007, 5:09 am
This is distrubing and I am appalled. And they say that we have evolved! We might have more technology and be a more organized society but, in some ways, we are as barbaric as we were 1000 ago. This is saddening and my heart goes out to all those girls and the few of you who posted here.