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The Real Health Care Debate

Health & Wellness  (tags: americans, activists, ethics, family, education, government, interesting, media, politics, obama, usa, candidates, congress, cancer, disease, drugs, government, healthcare, health, medicine, research, treatment )

- 2263 days ago -
"We have the solution, we have the resources and we have the money to provide lifelong, comprehensive, high-quality health care to every person," Dr. Flowers said when we spoke a few days ago in Washington, D.C. Many Americans have not accepted the S.P.

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Micahel Dewey (1021)
Tuesday April 10, 2012, 9:53 am
''I'm not so sure its illegal, but understand its not worth the 2000 pages its written on.''-Michael C Dewey)

Yvonne F (181)
Tuesday April 10, 2012, 10:57 am
I don't understand this! Why is this such big problem in the US? In Scandinavia we don't have this problem, but we get criticized for being to Socialistic?????? And I can't see that we pay that much higher taxes than the average American. But if you go with the Republicans you are not going to have any health insurance at all! USA have the highest debt in the world and if China and Japan starting collecting US will be bankrupt. So that's why the Republicans are death scared of decreasing the US war-mashine and that mashine costs $1 billion a day!!!! Think how much welfare you could have had for that money! I feel sorry for you because you have to be really rich to live in the US. Thanks for posting, Michael and good luck. I wish you all well!!!

Kit B (276)
Tuesday April 10, 2012, 11:09 am

Actually it's nearly 3,000 pages of legalese and typical Congressional Horse crap passing as American English. I watched and read each day, so I am aware of the bill. From here we can demand one of two changes - Medicare for all - from pre-birth to death. Or we can demand that many insurance companies flood the market driving down the cost of both insurance and the cost of medicine. This should be favored by republicans because it's in keeping with retail medicine. (Is that the sound of cash registers clinging?)

Fiona Ogilvie (565)
Tuesday April 10, 2012, 11:13 am
All of this makes me sick. Part of this makes me very sick. That part is that single payer for all of us would cost so much less than the mess created by the 2,000+ page rip off to all of us.

penny C (83)
Tuesday April 10, 2012, 11:21 am
A lot of trees wasted for all thise pages.Thanks Michael.

Henriette Matthijssen (154)
Tuesday April 10, 2012, 11:23 am
They do not care about the people, only they see $$. Thanks Michael.

. (0)
Tuesday April 10, 2012, 11:29 am
thanks Michael and Henriette for the fwd. If it's not illegal should be. We have a real crisis with health care in our country and it just gets worse. Greed once again!! The cost of medicine is outrageous and there is no site more heart breaking than to hear how so many people skip doses because they can't afford to take the prescribed dose daily. There should be medicare for all and much LESS profit for the greedy insurance and pharmaceutical companies. Why should any ONE pill cost 5.00 when they are mass produced for pennies.

Sheryl G (360)
Tuesday April 10, 2012, 11:33 am
I can't seem to open the Vist Site, but this mess of a Health Care fiasco will not be fixed on the backs of the already poor and the Elders by taking away their Medicare. We are the only Developed Country in the World doing it this way and it isn't working.

I suppose the only good thing with so many falling out of their insurances due to loss of jobs is that is it now exposing this big Lie that has existed all along. More and more people are joining those who already have been suffering from lack of health insurance and more and more are seeing that the so called "safety nets" that they had thought were there for those who had a rainy day, are not there either.

Like festering wounds the bandaids are being removed and what is seen isn't pretty but now maybe the public will demand better.

Lady Flo (117)
Tuesday April 10, 2012, 11:38 am
Thank you Michael,we have another Health Care system in Sweden.Aha,green stars for Yvonne Fast.

Michael MacDonald (27)
Tuesday April 10, 2012, 11:42 am
This is just ingenuous and that's not a compliment.

Private health care is so much more expensive on the individual that it is completely outrageous that people are making these claims.

I live in a country that's had a public system for more than a decade and it's the best decision we've ever made as a country.
Focus on trying to improve your system and make it even more socialized.
Of course, it's good to get rid of some of the middle men making profits off of it,
but to fear monger over public health care all together and to make an outrageous claim like it's illegal to have Americans pay taxes for a public service is just downright dishonest.
We all pay for tons of public services and we can't make that claim for the rest of them.

You're all falling for two bit propaganda from the republican party.
I hope you're happy with yourselves.
If your health care system goes back to being completely private,
then you're the ones who will have to pay outrageous bills when you get sick or hurt.
In my system,
I only pay a couple of percentage points on my taxes which is far better than being left with a 10,000 dollar bill or more if I get hurt.
If your system hasn't reduced the costs enough to get to this equilibrium yet,
then work on that,
but public health care is the only health care system that's fair and doesn't leave people behind without care so stop spreading misinformation about it if you have any integrity at all.
Once you find an equilibrium and work out all of the details,
public health care is unfathomably cheaper.
It seems to me,
that the real problem are the republicans in congress who are hell bent on making sure it fails through obstruction.

David C (129)
Tuesday April 10, 2012, 11:52 am
I don't know where the idea of the country doing good for everyone became a problem........I am disappointed that we don't have single payor, but sure think the improvements that have and will come are better than what we had before and am more concerned that SCOTUS has become a political tool rather than a truly blinded to politics judiciary.....

Michael MacDonald (27)
Tuesday April 10, 2012, 11:57 am
in actuality,
your sort of ended up with a hybrid of a public and private system.
If the republican hadn't done everything in their power to stop health care from going private,
you might have already achieved a fully public system by now
which would have left out the insurance companies and had all of your taxes pooled on the same plane therefor reducing the costs down as far as they can go,
but unfortunately Obama couldn't pass gas on a bean plantation with the level of obstructionism coming from the right wing in your country so who's to blame for your complaints.
I think that you all ought to research how public health care played out in other countries such as Canada if you want to call you opinion objective and not merely subjective dribble.
That's my challenge for the day.
If you can't do the proper research on that,
then you won't know what you're talking about.

Micahel Dewey (1021)
Tuesday April 10, 2012, 12:04 pm
Michael Macdonald, somewhere it seems you missed the point of my posting this.

Calliope S (47)
Tuesday April 10, 2012, 12:07 pm
As a fellow European, Yvonne Fast has expressed my thoughts completely.

Carol H (229)
Tuesday April 10, 2012, 12:20 pm
noted, thank you Michael.

Calliope S (47)
Tuesday April 10, 2012, 12:27 pm
Michael I forgot to mention my support for health care for the American people.

Billie C (2)
Tuesday April 10, 2012, 12:37 pm
it's about time the real truth about obamacare is coming out. i have said all along it's garbage and the only people that gain by it are the insurance companies. insurance companies gave a tiny bit in return for all the pie.
if we are going to force people to have insurance then do single payer and be done with it.

Agnes N (703)
Tuesday April 10, 2012, 12:41 pm
Thanks Michael

LaurenBackSoon Kozen (173)
Tuesday April 10, 2012, 1:08 pm
Thanks for posting this Michael.

Suzy F (94)
Tuesday April 10, 2012, 1:14 pm
Having grown up in Germany, I understand Yvonne Fast. Sent a green star. Why can't America take care of our health? Because we pay insurance companies.

Micahel Dewey (1021)
Tuesday April 10, 2012, 1:41 pm
There was an interesting comment in OEN, on this Article, from a man in Canada, that what needs to be melded into a National Plan, is Community Accountability. You know, not DC telling us this are can or can't be done, but local people. HC has been a deep concern on mine since hearing a speech by Ted Kennedy in 1979.

Joe R (190)
Tuesday April 10, 2012, 3:07 pm
I'm still wanting the single payer national health insurance system! Thanks Michael.

Lois Jordan (63)
Tuesday April 10, 2012, 3:53 pm
Thanks for posting this, Michael. I followed the links and signed onto the Single Payer Action list. Obama "promised" this to his supporters, then allowed Single Payer advocates to be arrested outside the very first meeting! I was so shocked and disappointed...almost unbelievable. We were supposed to get Health Care Reform; instead, it turned into Health Insurance Reform. Although there were many portions of the bill that addressed "pre-existing conditions" and allowed my college kids to stay on our insurance, I notified my Congress critters that putting a mandate in the bill was illegal. When they compared it to buying car insurance, I objected that not everyone owns a car. So now SCOTUS gets to decide. I've read that if SCOTUS throws out the bill, the next option is to go back to pushing "single payer." I don't know what's true, or what the outcome will be, but if they nullify "pre-existing conditions" and other vital aspects, I think there will be protesters in the streets.

Rita D (87)
Tuesday April 10, 2012, 4:00 pm
Thank you very much for posting this article Michael! Thanks to everyone for your interesting comments and points of view you share in here! I totally agree with what Yvonne Fast and Dandelion said:

1. In Scandinavia we don't have this problem, but we get criticized for being to Socialistic?????? And I can't see that we pay that much higher taxes than the average American. But if you go with the Republicans you are not going to have any health insurance at all!

I agree with you Yvonne, in Belgium and most European countried it works perfectly well for many decades already, why is it not possible in the US then? Because of the unlimited GREED of the Republicans! And to me it seems that even the democrats are acting as Republicans sometimes... it's amazing! You don't have to be a communist to see that a good health care system is the base for a healthy economy, common sense is all that is needed and the will to be solidar with all our brothers and sisters who are less fortunate and have to live on a lower income.

2. The mess of the Health Care fiasco will not be fixed on the backs of the already poor and the Elders by tYhe aking away their Medicare. We are the only Developed Country in the World doing it this way and it isn't working"

I also agree with you Dandelion, as a developed country you need SOLIIDARITY! It's a very important human quality for every developed nation and that is what a decent Health Care System is all about in my opinion.

Yvonne White (229)
Tuesday April 10, 2012, 4:42 pm
Kucinich's HR 676 was the most perfect plan, so Perlosi said it was off the table before the Healthcare "debate" (fix) began..we HAVE to demand single-payer-Medicare-For-ALL to save money and lives!
Most states already Demand you have vehicle insurance, so why not health insurance? IF it's Required, then they HAVE to make it Cheaper!

Fiona Ogilvie (565)
Tuesday April 10, 2012, 4:51 pm
Yvonne, thank you for the knowledgeable comment. I regret that I cannot, at this time, send you a green star.

Past Member (0)
Tuesday April 10, 2012, 4:59 pm
A good post. Thanks for sharing.

Carmen S (611)
Tuesday April 10, 2012, 5:53 pm
Thanks MIchael for this article and everyone else for the great discussion.

Mary T (178)
Tuesday April 10, 2012, 6:07 pm
Thanks Michael for posting, I agree with Yvonne on this.

Phyllis P (237)
Tuesday April 10, 2012, 7:40 pm
I think there is a simple solution. Government however, complicates everything. Let one of those bastards have to go through what many of us everyday people go through, and watch things change immediately.

Ellen m (215)
Tuesday April 10, 2012, 9:12 pm
I to got mad and sick overthe way this article (and video) laid out what we are all in for if we don't act...and fast.
But i also teared up as it hit home and brought me right back to the time last year when i was in line at the pharmacy and an elderly man was panicked,weeping and broken because he couldn't afford his wife's medication.

Some people looked up, some down, and some left the line to come back later. I teared up myself, but thank god there were enough of us to pitch in and make it happen...but he was still broken, as i think all of us there have been everyday since.

And the worst part is that this plays out in homes, doctors office's and pharmacies across this country, over and over, EVERY SINGLE DAY !!!

I am 59, and have managed through a lot of downs, but this has me so scared i can't begin to tell you :-(
Please talk about it with others, and help gain momentum for an answer that is fair and covers every single person in this country.

While i and others lost alot that day, i don't want to know that anyone ever has to go through that, from either side of the equation. it is not only wrong, it is inhumane and immoral.
And now you have me crying yet again...
Thank you so much for posting this Michael, it's one of your best, and i'm posting it in Occupy Seattle as soon as i submit here...1love PS; most of you already had your star limit :-)

Mark Marino (22)
Tuesday April 10, 2012, 10:28 pm
Weird how when you point out both parties' involvement someone STILL says it's one party or the other. Who started Canada's single payer health care movement?

Michael Carney (217)
Tuesday April 10, 2012, 11:36 pm
Noted, with anger, disgust, and frustration...The Government, of both Parties, but mostly Republicans, should hang their heads in shame that America doesn't have Insurance for every citizen, It's so doable...Greed, No Conscience, No Compassion, No Soul, and No heart allow this to take place...Funny though how The Lawmakers, have the best Insurance possible, for which they don't pay 1 cent, thanks to the American Taxpayer, yet they sell their offices, and their souls to the Insurance, and Pharmaceutical Companies, plus put Billions of Dollars in their pockets from these Companies...And they tell the people they are supposed to work for...If you don't like it..."F**k You", and die already...I think our Congress and Senate, are the biggest Terrorist threat possible to the people of America...They are killing more of us, than Al Quaida or any other Terrorist group could ever hope or dream...And we pay them to do it...Just blows my mind...Where is Superman when you need him?

Past Member (0)
Wednesday April 11, 2012, 12:51 am
Noted, thank you, Michael!

Arild G (174)
Wednesday April 11, 2012, 1:19 am
The American Social security system doesn't work,period.Take a good look at the Scandinavian model and see what you get for paying 7.8% of your gross income in taxes:

Proud to be a Norwegian socialist were things work.
Thanks for the post Michael.

wendy webber (28)
Wednesday April 11, 2012, 1:52 am
Health care should not be a "should we, shouldn't we"situation. I have often wondered why we do not take pointers from other countries where there health system is working????? Why are we trying to reinvent the wheel.Great healthcare should not be a luxury. The situation of the elderly man NOT being able to pay for his wife's meds. about broke my heart. Talk about injustice......

Victoria Pohrebna (279)
Wednesday April 11, 2012, 2:50 am
Noted. Thank you!

Craig Pittman (52)
Wednesday April 11, 2012, 4:10 am
Thanks Michael and thanks to others here for the constructive comments.
Change is going to have to come from the grass roots. Health for profit just plain isn't right.

Edwin M (346)
Wednesday April 11, 2012, 9:36 am
Thanks Michael

P. L. Neola (21)
Wednesday April 11, 2012, 10:32 am
No, it is not worth the 2000 pages it is written on. And, I believe that it might be over 2, 500 pages. I believe I heard Jim Bohannan or “Jimbo” claim that it was close to 2,700 pages during a radio interview on his talk show while discussing whether it was legal or illegal to have a mandatory coverage clause to the bill.

Please keep in mind that the bill really did not legally get passed. It did not receive enough votes to safely or legally pass into law. Remember?

I also want to mention that, for the last two years, I have not earned enough income to be held accountable for my coverage. The government will have to subsidize me, along with many other underemployed workers in our society!

To be honest, the only people who will profit from this bill are the insurance companies!!! This new bill will sink the government financially, because there are way too many underemployed in our nation right now!

I have a preexisting health condition, rheumatoid arthritis. Many people—at present—are complaining about how insurance companies are just socking it to them. There are people with $6000 annual premiums, and there are people with high premiums with extremely high deductibles. I ran into someone who has a $3000 annual deductible for him and his wife, and they are paying far more than $6000 for their annual premium.

The President provided a way for insurance companies to become very, very rich. My God, even some auto insurance companies are providing medical insurance policies for their cliental. You just wait and see! The next thing we will witness is the banking industry getting involved in selling insurance policies. Meanwhile, he established another way to sink our nation economically.

People like me, with preexisting health conditions, are not going to stay or become BIG BREAD WINNERS again, especially if buying and maintaining insurance requires us to take the city metropolitan bus system every morning and especially if the bus route takes 2 ˝ hours to get to work, as it does here in Las Vegas!!!

Micahel Dewey (1021)
Wednesday April 11, 2012, 10:34 am
After looking back on the last 3 decades of DC, I am, personally convinced that DC is not the place to fix the mess that they made. Have wanted for many years an Article V Convention, with newly elected officials, to try and come up with something that works for the people. And its looking like that is going to take people holding hands in the Cities and Towns to demand it.

Fiona Ogilvie (565)
Wednesday April 11, 2012, 10:46 am
Yes Michael and yes Ellen. You have both reaffirmed my strong belief that this has to come for us, the 99%, from where it hurts us and then it will be powerful. Yes Michael and Ellen from cities and towns and check out lines at the pharmacies.

Occupy Health Care until it serves the people. Occupy together. Occupy where you are right now. Occupy everything.

Micahel Dewey (1021)
Wednesday April 11, 2012, 1:03 pm
Occupy everything, or how about stocking up on food and just staying home. When I read the Head Lines, ''they'' have no more clue, now, than when driving through Montana in 92, saying, at stops for a cold beer, ''They have no clue in DC, what you people here are about.''

Angelika R (143)
Wednesday April 11, 2012, 2:49 pm
Thanks Michael, as always great post and excellent article by Chris H. The US may have to work hard to maintain its sorry # 37 Position for it looks like they're slipping even further down the line.
Of course I agree with my fellow Europeans and their comments above and I truly feel sorry for you all.
Occupy and impeach the whole goddam Congress.
Something else you might want to consider though: Like Monsanto, I believe that Big Pharma is just out to kill you as well, so for some it may be a blessing not being able to afford their crap...

Norm C (74)
Wednesday April 11, 2012, 6:18 pm
We need single-payer as real health insurance reform. But we also need real health CARE reform, probably along the lines of the Dartmouth research into best practices. Both efforts will dramatically reduce the cost of healthcare and will improve our overall health.

I would point out that the reason we do not have any of this in the US has very little to do with who sits in the Oval Office. You can change occupants til you're blue in the butt. We have to change the whole damned system of politics.

The focus should be on Congress and primaries. Getting the best progressives into Congress begins during the lead-up to the primaries. It is in the primaries that we will determine whether or not we have a real choice on our terms or on the terms laid down by the 0.1%. NO ONE who does not campaign for, donate to (assuming one has the funds) and vote for quality candidates has any right to bitch about Congress or politics in general. NO ONE who does not look four or eight years down the road and support candidates at the local level who can develop the experience to run for office at the Congressional level can complain about the performance of their government or claim to give a damn.

Either we participate and work for the kind of world we want for our kids or we don't. As the saying goes, democracy is not a spectator sport. Neither will it survive if we just complain and complain but never do anything productive or useful to change things. We can change things. WE are the only ones who can.

Mark Marino (22)
Thursday April 12, 2012, 7:47 am
Actor Kiefer Sutherland’s Grandfather Tommy Douglas Remembered for Bringing Universal Healthcare System to Canada

Rachel k (9)
Thursday April 12, 2012, 12:52 pm
The health care debate is so dizzying especially during an election. Politicians use confusion and fear as part of their tactics to win.

Kathy Javens (104)
Thursday April 12, 2012, 3:21 pm
Noted. Love this article. Thank you, Michael. I have been talking about universal healthcare to my friends & family for years. It just makes sense. It is a win-win situation for all. Just look at Sweden, Canada, Holland (not completely, but very close). Our entire system is one sad, ugly mess.

Lakmal Bandara (0)
Friday April 13, 2012, 12:00 am


Its not too difficult to understand the advantages and disadvantages of the basic economic concepts that we have tried on our earth ( both failed capitalism and failed communism )

Your topic is belongs to the first one.

When it comes to the capitalism, which is based on money raw materials, manufacturing, economic expansion...any nation face the following challenges

01. Failure to protect human values ( capitalism cannot be survived without materialism )

02. Failure to protect nature or animal planet.

(capitalism cannot be survived without expansion ) It needs a continuous growth to crwate more jobs, profit if want to run smoothly.

03. Failure to protect human life.

Capitalism is based on money and profit. If im a global manufacturer, when i feel thist for resources. I always tend to force the govenment and the control body to captur the resources for my survival. I dont care how many millin people die for a war for my dirty dollers.

01. Western pharmaceutical industry : war trade related ^^^^^
02. Western Life insurance: war trade related ^^^
03. Western Banking and finance: war trade related ^^^^
04. Arms manufacturing and r&d war trade related ^^^^^
05. Western zionist dominated media war trade related ^^^^^

06. world electronics manuf, r&d global warming related ^^^^^
07. world automobile industry global warming related ^^^^^
08. world shipping industry global warming related ^^^

Medicine, education, media, should be 100% people driven and government owned in any nation. Its a must...unless you want to hijack the system for dollers.

Thanks michael.


MarietteAWAY G (175)
Friday April 13, 2012, 2:19 am
Noted, thanks Michael. Like your little song!

Micahel Dewey (1021)

Stelizan L (258)
Sunday April 15, 2012, 10:02 am
Single payer healthCARE should be a global 'one and only' option, point.

Lika P (130)
Friday April 20, 2012, 1:20 am
Thing is, it's not even socialism. It's a form of public health, and to create competition for other health insurance and providers. It's a way to drive cost down to make it affordable.

You don't buy car insurance AFTER your accident and expect it to cover you, do you? Flood insurance AFTER the flood will only have you paying exorbitant costs. This follows the same logic. It's cheaper to get insurance when you aren't sick, and if you wait until you get sick, no insurance wants to cover you.

Past Member (0)
Thursday June 21, 2012, 12:30 pm
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