Friday October 23, 2009, 9:09 am
I have always wondered this too Terry!

Friday October 23, 2009, 10:17 am
Because INDIANS and BRAVEs and REDSKINS were words to be feared, so the white people use them to feel a bit better? ? ? (from a white person ! )

Friday October 23, 2009, 11:52 am
Thanks Terry!

Frankly YES...having a team called the "Braves", "Redskins" and even the bow and arrow does bring back old memories that make people love to see these names.

I did hear that the Redskins, though were trying to rename their team, what is going on with that?

Personally all of the team names are kinda strange to me...like the San Diego Chargers, basically, they don't really Charge into much lately. I think most of these names have been established and even though some of them are "off limits and off the charts to me" they keep them for the TEAM.

Frankly, when it does come to all of these names, I "give up" trying to figure out who did it, what they are trying to do and why!

Friday October 23, 2009, 12:26 pm
Well seems like a fair trade to me.....take all their land, force them onto reservations and not allow them to leave, starve them, beat them, forbide them to speak their language, force the children to go to horrendous boarding schools, steralize them, experiment on them, and then use them for promoting a white mans sport. Wow, what a deal!
I'm sarcastic if you didn't know....or don't know me yet.

Friday October 23, 2009, 1:06 pm
IMO I don't see what the problem is Mascots have always been apart of Football. IMO they're just to get the fans excited plus they don't cause any harm. I think too much is being read into this.

Friday October 23, 2009, 1:15 pm
That is the whole problem Catherine is that so few people understand and do not think any harm is done.

Read my above comment and imagine that has happened to YOU, then those who stole all you had including your children, then turned around and made a game and called it the Catherine O Neill game....had people running out in stupid costumes, depicting you and your image, costumes and sayings that make YOU look ridiculous, and make money off of YOUR name but YOU get nothing and you and your family are sitting somewhere, in the desert, going hungry.

Now tell me, do you think it still causes no harm? How would YOU feel?

Friday October 23, 2009, 1:22 pm
Why don't we just name them pale face or cracker,honky, whitey, Custer

Friday October 23, 2009, 1:28 pm
Dandelion....LMAO. Im indian and I know I dont appreciate it...what the heck we dont even dress in that manner anymore except for pow-pows...
Lone I like cracker...LOL But you know whites dont seem to flinch at the names like that???? Wonder why??

Big Gorilly Hugs

Friday October 23, 2009, 1:33 pm
Custer sounds great to me...then of course, I personally hope they lose all of their games!!!

Friday October 23, 2009, 1:41 pm
i'm right there with you the white don't see anything wrong with calling us whatever they want why is it that the Native American is always run down?????????????

Friday October 23, 2009, 2:06 pm
Only commenting on the Florida State University Seminole Mascot. The name has been lent to FSU by the actual Seminole Tribe and can be withdrawn by them at any time. I understand the issues with Redskins, Braves, etc., although I really don't think it's my place to say since my Indian blood isn't verified and is minimal. But, any question of the use of the name Seminole by FSU should be put to the actual tribe. Should they ever pull the use of the name, I believe the school has already reserved the name, Panthers, in honor of the very few Florida panthers that still survive the rampant development in southern Florida. Feel free to verify this, I assure all that it is true. The way FSU has played ball, maybe we'll find out what will happen if they pull the name....:-) Alumni 1986 Masters

Friday October 23, 2009, 4:05 pm
good question terry

Friday October 23, 2009, 4:10 pm
Thanks for this news, Terry.

Friday October 23, 2009, 4:37 pm
It's wrong -- another co-option and "let's pretend that a brutal colonization never happened" kind of stuff.

Friday October 23, 2009, 9:04 pm
If we honored them it would be different. Let's respect them.

Saturday October 24, 2009, 7:58 pm
Actually, as Paul notes, they are not all the same and cannot actually be lumped together. Although some Universities have given up Native American mascots (I believe the Univ of Illinois used to have one and the NCAA and Illinois Illini changed it, for example) the NCAA was unable to make a change across the board. Why? Because the Florida Seminoles objected. They have a great relationship with the University, the name is given and worn in pride and friendship, and the tribe objected to the NCAA actions. At the beginning of home games, a member of the tribe rides out on to the field on a beautiful horse, and nothing happens until he does. It is a sign of respect and is accepted as such.

The mascots in sports were often chosen out of respect for the fierceness and valor with which Native Americans fought battles. Unfortunately there is a really awful MLB (baseball) mascot that is really offensive - in fact, it may no longer exist. The NFL Redskins no longer use the Native American profile, I believe. In general, it was not meant to be disrespectful, but it's not just what one party intends, it's also what another party takes from it. There's no excuse or meaningful explanation for how Native Americans were and are treated and never will be. But not everything every white person does is meant to give offense either. Some Universities and teams have made changes. The Seminoles objected when the NCAA tried to force FSU to change. It should be up to the tribe, right? Who am I or the NCAA to step on that. There are states, towns, rivers, mountain ranges, highways and all sorts of stuff around this nation named for Native Americans or Native American tribes. It's not always disrespect, and is often respect. We need to get to where we consistently and constantly show only respect - like we want for ourselves.

And also FYI, you can go to http://www.cafepress.com/fightinwhite/ and see the site and logo and merchandise for "the official store of the Fightin' Whites from University of Northern Colorado. All proceeds from this store will go to the FIGHTING WHITES SCHOLARSHIP FUND INC."

Oh yeah, there's a community college in Scottsdale with a team named the Fighting Artichokes. No fooling. Just a thought.

Saturday October 24, 2009, 8:11 pm
It's important that I'm very clear here. I dont' suggest for a moment that Native Americans should tolerate disrespect and I think it would be great if everyone meant no disrespect. We name all sorts of things after people and groups out of respect, and always have as far as I know.

The example I should have given in the last post is of Piestewa Peak here in Arizona. It was renamed in honor of a Native American woman, certain not out of any disrespect. From Wikipedia-
Piestewa Peak (formerly Squaw Peak), at 2608 feet (795 meters) is the second highest point in the Phoenix Mountains, after Camelback Mountain, and the third highest in the city of Phoenix, Arizona. It is located in the Phoenix Mountains Preserve. Piestewa Peak is named in honor of Army Spc. Lori Ann Piestewa, the first Native American woman to die in combat in the US military, [1] and the first woman soldier to be killed in action in the 2003 Iraq Conflict.

Saturday October 24, 2009, 8:14 pm
Also, I was wrong about the NFL Redskins changing their logo - they haven't but SHOULD! Sorry for the error, maybe wishful thinking on my part.

Sunday October 25, 2009, 9:43 pm
http://newsok.com/article/2844648/#atssh-facebook

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1145703

http://www.uillinois.edu/trustees/dialogue/report_files/VII.html


"After wrestling with the politically delicate issue for more than four years, the NCAA may be close to rendering a verdict on the use of Native American mascots and nicknames — from Indians and Braves to Redmen and Savages — by 30 of its member universities. The governing body will conduct the first in a series of summer meetings next month and could decide by August whether it can and should impose a ban on Indian imagery, which critics charge is demeaning and even racist. Ultimate responsibility falls to the NCAA's highest body, the 17-member Executive Committee, which meets in early August.

Whether the association will or legally must continue to yield to individual campus discretion — as the NCAA does on such matters as minority hiring — is uncertain. Targets range from Florida State (Seminoles) and Utah (Utes) to lower-division institutions with particularly provocative nicknames: Southeastern Oklahoma (Savages) and Carthage, Wis. (Redmen).

"What we can do is educate, get the information out there to you," says Southwestern Athletic Conference Commissioner Robert Vowels, who heads the Minority Interests and Opportunities Committee. "I can't sit here and say right now that we can enforce something or establish a penalty structure."
'

Monday October 26, 2009, 9:10 am
When the American Indian Movement planned a protest in Tallahassee, the university never had to respond. The protest was called off because of the support of the Seminole Tribe. AIM did protest the Braves game up the road in Atlanta. I'm not aware of any tribe that has given Atlanta permission to use the name Braves. My guess is that FSU's record with the Seminole Tribe will allow them to maintain the use, with the tribes permission, of the name. If not, still love the Seminole indians and I'll just be a Florida State University Panther fan!

Hopefully, a member of the Seminole tribe is also on Care2. All of the info I ever got on this issue was from other sources, which I assume were reliable. Would love to know for sure as I've probably told the story a hundred times.

Monday October 26, 2009, 9:14 am
Paul, at the time that the NCAA decided to work with Universities to move them away from Native American nicknames, there were interviews on ESPN (I think also on a network - maybe ABC - but I'm not sure). The Seminole leader spoke about the relationship that his community has with the University. After the interview, I had no doubt that the Seminole people had made the decision on their own and had chosen to deliberately maintain that relationship with FSU. If I find that story or links to the interviews, I'll let you know!

Monday October 26, 2009, 3:48 pm
JennyLynn W., now that you mention it, I saw that video.....the brain is as old as the grey hair that covers it....

THANKS