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Israel Holds US Boy Without Charge After Police Nearly Beat Him to Death - Video/Photos


World  (tags: news )

David
- 74 days ago - middleeastmonitor.com
"No protection for Palestinians" --- When asked if he expects any accountability or justice for the treatment of his son, Salahedeen said, "No way, this is Israel. There is no protection for Palestinians from the police or soldiers or army."



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Comments

Richard S. (196)
Saturday July 5, 2014, 5:06 pm
What Israel has become is both tragic and horrible. We are so very ashamed for it.
 

Rose NoFWDSPLZ (273)
Saturday July 5, 2014, 5:14 pm
Sickening
 

Rose NoFWDSPLZ (273)
Saturday July 5, 2014, 5:16 pm
http://org.salsalabs.com/o/1439/p/dia/action3/common/public/?action_KEY=15980

Sign Petition the above links is from Jess B
 

Sam H. (403)
Saturday July 5, 2014, 5:46 pm
I’m going to guess that all of this is going to result in more US aid to Israel!
 

Eleonora Oldani (48)
Saturday July 5, 2014, 5:48 pm
One can't help but wonder what the US are going to do in this case? After all he is a US citizen - or maybe in this case it doesn't matter like in the case of the young Turk who got killed by Israel on the Mavi Marmara?

Maybe if the boys name would be Naftali ... but he's just another Tareq ...

When did polit-Israel become such a horror monster?
 

jess b (24)
Saturday July 5, 2014, 5:58 pm
http://org.salsalabs.com/o/1439/p/dia/action3/common/public/?action_KEY=15980
ty David and Rose
 

jess b (24)
Saturday July 5, 2014, 6:00 pm
http://org.salsalabs.com/o/1439/p/dia/action3/common/public/?action_KEY=15980
 

Carrie B. (305)
Saturday July 5, 2014, 6:11 pm
It's time for the U.S. government to step in against Israel and protect our citizens!
 

David B. (29)
Saturday July 5, 2014, 6:45 pm
The U.S. provides Israel $8.5 million* in military aid each day,while it gives the Palestinians $0** in military aid - Why is it so?
 

jess b (24)
Saturday July 5, 2014, 6:50 pm
There has been misinformation,'gag orders' and bias, reporting on Israeli crimes for decades. Please read, and share/sign. ty
http://chn.ge/1rcLR1y
 

Naoko I. (262)
Saturday July 5, 2014, 7:24 pm
His "being a US citizen" should "not" matter. Any child, anyone must not be abused like this.
Signed the petition.
 

Ondine J. (133)
Saturday July 5, 2014, 8:02 pm
Absolutely sickening and horrible, Jess thanks for the link which I signed and David for posting.
 

Natasha Salgado (520)
Saturday July 5, 2014, 8:40 pm
The US must stop supporting this Nazi regime+all their atrocious acts...stop the $$$$$ cow.
 

Nimue P. (243)
Saturday July 5, 2014, 8:47 pm
This is unconscionable. For shame, how can you do this to a child???
 

Sam H. (403)
Saturday July 5, 2014, 10:01 pm
This is what AIPAC lobbies for!
 

Sam H. (403)
Saturday July 5, 2014, 11:51 pm
What happened to Israel’s policy of “Arrest Now, Torture Later”?
 

Sam H. (403)
Sunday July 6, 2014, 1:29 am
Not only are the Palestinians second-class citizens in their own homeland, but apparently they are second-class citizens in the US too. Where’s the rush in Congress to cut all aid to Israel?
 

Sam H. (403)
Sunday July 6, 2014, 3:21 am


Kidnapped Palestinian Teen Was Burned to Death, Autopsy Shows

 

Ros G. (91)
Sunday July 6, 2014, 3:58 am
Why am I not surprised!!!!!!!!!!Thanks for the forward Sam...thanks for the post David..........thanks for the link Jess...signed with pleasure.....here we are again......a minority group 19 noted..11 commentators.....fighting for another minority group.....well not to us......but apparently to most......will the US do something for one of it's citizens......No.........Australia didn't do any thing for one of theirs either....Nimue.......forget about the child......how can they do this to anybody....
 

Lone F. (32)
Sunday July 6, 2014, 3:59 am
Disgraceful. Shame on you, Israel! Enough is enough. I have signed the petition that Jess suggested "Thank you for taking action to free Tarek!" Thank you David for the post.
 

Kathleen Mireault (51)
Sunday July 6, 2014, 8:38 am
Noted. Thank you, David, for posting, and Sam for the forward and the above link. Hope the murdering cowards responsiblle for this heinous act are caught, criminally charged and prosecuted to the full extent of the law! Not sure how likely that is under the circumstances...but one can hope that disseminating truth will help.
 

Angelika R. (143)
Sunday July 6, 2014, 11:56 am
He was released today-on bail.. more here > Tariq Abu Khdeir Is Released on Bail in Israel
Sorry I've run out of words for comments on this type of ongoing horror..and getting worse by the days..
So the DOS was "profoundly troubled"..and Israeli police's response as expected..
Thx David and Sam for alerting.
 

Dandelion G. (387)
Sunday July 6, 2014, 2:05 pm
Tarek is a relative of Mohamed Abu Khdeir, the 16-year-old Palestinian boy found burned to death on Wednesday in what was apparently an act of retribution by Israeli extremists for the killing of three Israeli teenagers. Petition already has been signed.

I doubt is the USA will do anything after all it kills it's own children every day, with drones such as 16 year old Abdulrahman al-Awlaki, a U.S. citizen who was born in Denver, was killed by a CIA-led drone strike in Yemen. We have children going hungry in the USA, going without health care and dying in the USA, being killed in the SWAT raids in USA, native children die all the time in the USA from horrible policies, so that a US citizen was beaten......I doubt to those who run things now in the USA it will matter little.

USA keeps donating money to Israel because it doesn't have a moral compass to tell what is correct anymore. It never treated the American Indian justly so I doubt it cares about the Palestinian people. If people can't find a compassion for it's own citizens, they stand up and shout "too bad if another American doesn't have medical care just let them die!" or when other Americans try to feed the hungry, those in charge make laws to make it illegal to feed the hungry. The homeless are growing every day, does our leadership care? No, they make it illegal to sleep in parks, on benches, and make them pay to get back their meager belongings that are taken. I don't think that one American child that was beaten is even a concern for most of the hard hearts in DC. Truly sad to say this, I'm an American, but I see the cruel actions daily.
 

David B. (29)
Sunday July 6, 2014, 2:29 pm
Perhaps the U.S. 'aid, to Israel and its 100% pro-Israel stance is because Israel is the only fully armed US military base in the Midd;e East?
 

Sam H. (403)
Sunday July 6, 2014, 2:36 pm
I’m not sure I totally agree with you, David, for we’re the ones fighting Israel’s wars, not the other way around! One of those days we’re going to win our independence from Israel.
 

David B. (29)
Sunday July 6, 2014, 2:44 pm
I hope you are right Sam. I find it difficult to understand why America gives more 'aid' to israel, a rogue Zionist ruled reasonably affluent state, than any other country...

PETITION: President Barack Obama and members of the US congress: Stop all aid to Israel and Apply sanctions

https://secure.avaaz.org/en/petition/President_Barack_Obama_and_members_of_the_US_congress_Stop_all_aid_to_Israel/
 

David B. (29)
Sunday July 6, 2014, 2:45 pm
https://secure.avaaz.org/en/petition/President_Barack_Obama_and_members_of_the_US_congress_Stop_all_aid_to_Israel/
 

David B. (29)
Sunday July 6, 2014, 2:47 pm
https://secure.avaaz.org/en/petition/President_Barack_Obama_and_members_of_the_US_congress_Stop_all_aid_to_Israel/
 

David B. (29)
Sunday July 6, 2014, 2:51 pm
_Stop_all_aid_to_Israel/
 

David B. (29)
Sunday July 6, 2014, 2:53 pm
_congress_Stop_all_aid_to_Israel/
 

David B. (29)
Sunday July 6, 2014, 2:53 pm
Sorry about that. Naughty computer!
 

Sam H. (403)
Sunday July 6, 2014, 3:15 pm


President Barack Obama and Members of Congress: Stop All Aid to Israel and Apply Sanctions

 

Sandrea S. (208)
Sunday July 6, 2014, 3:28 pm
Airstrikes - 2 explosions happened just now coming from North Gaza.
 

Dandelion G. (387)
Sunday July 6, 2014, 4:11 pm
Petition signed.
 

Ros G. (91)
Sunday July 6, 2014, 5:09 pm
Petition signed.........signature 180.....don't think we'll make 2000 even and who will listen anyway

This is what the President is asking Congress for: $500,000,000 to arm the rebels

http://www.care2.com/news/member/830372471/3784796
 

Stephen Brian (23)
Sunday July 6, 2014, 6:04 pm
Uh, guys? The injuries from the videos and photos don't match. Seriously.

Watch the upper video (same as the lower, but with less camera-shake). The victim is struck in the head many, many times with a balled fist, and then kicked and stomped repeatedly. Either those were head-punches, or the torturer decided to waive his hand around, or break it on the ground by punching cement really hard. I'm going to go with head-punches.

Now look at the photos. I see one major bruise, some light scraping on the other side of the head, and the damage around the mouth. Aside from that, he's sitting up with no apparent damage to the rest of his body, aside from something minor on his elbow (which actually looks like an IV-input was removed).

I know exactly what it takes to make a mouth swell up like that, a single hit from an elbow, nothing close to what is shown in the video. (I did it to someone once after he and his friends decided that surrounding and threatening me seemed like a good idea.) The victim in the video was beaten to a pulp and would not have been sitting up like that for months. The injuries apparent in the photos are nowhere close to those in the video, in intensity (the victim in the video was hit much harder) nor extent (the victim in the video was hit many, many more times than the kid in the photo).

More importantly, around 1:30, you actually get a semi-clear view of the victim in the video. He's bigger than the kid and white (the skin-tone on the arms doesn't match).

The kid was certainly hurt, and I'm pretty sure it was by police, but he was taken in a "demonstration while tensions were high" (riot), which usually means resistance to arrest. I'm not jumping to the conclusion that this was torture.
 

Sam H. (403)
Sunday July 6, 2014, 6:14 pm
So Stephen, then you're confirming that there's another victim that was abused a lot worse than this kid. What a smart way to exonerate Israel from abusing civilians!
 

Ros G. (91)
Sunday July 6, 2014, 6:24 pm
Thank you Stephen......SBS World News Australia......said they would not show any images of the victim as his injuries where horrific...and your quibbling about one photo
 

jess b (24)
Sunday July 6, 2014, 6:28 pm
Petition -
President Barack Obama and members of the US congress: Stop all aid to Israel and Apply sanctions
https://secure.avaaz.org/en/petition/President_Barack_Obama_and_members_of_the_US_congress_Stop_all_aid_to_Israel/edit/
 

jess b (24)
Sunday July 6, 2014, 6:35 pm
signed.
 

Mitchell D. (131)
Sunday July 6, 2014, 7:01 pm
What an utter shame that we even have this kind of thing about which to have a debate!
Humans can be some of the most miserable people.
 

Catman P. (912)
Sunday July 6, 2014, 7:53 pm
awesome
 

Freya H. (307)
Sunday July 6, 2014, 8:07 pm
That does it! Israel is now officially a rogue nation. Period. Israel can no longer play the Holocaust card - not when they are conducting their own ethnic cleansing. F*** Israel.
 

Henriette Matthijssen (145)
Sunday July 6, 2014, 8:37 pm
Damn Israhell! Poor innocent children, abused by bullies!
 

Henriette Matthijssen (145)
Sunday July 6, 2014, 8:49 pm
Israhel owns America. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7AQ8m-7WPU
 

Stephen Brian (23)
Sunday July 6, 2014, 11:17 pm
Hi Sam :)

I'm saying there absolutely was someone beaten a whole lot worse than the kid in the photos. Was it done by Israeli forces? I don't know. The area where it occurred looks like it could be identified from Google Maps. I'll try to find out exactly where it happened if I can.

Hi Ros :)

I'm not really quibbling about the photo. I'm questioning the narrative of torture. The kid was arrested, certainly, and probably should not have been, but I'm not convinced he was mistreated to the degree claimed by many here and elsewhere. The injuries do not look like those that would result from torture. On the face at least, they are a few distinct hits (some scrapes, a bruise, and the hit to the mouth), and elsewhere there do not appear to be serious injuries. This is a short violent encounter (as expected when arresting someone during a riot), not a sustained period of torture.
 

Sam H. (403)
Monday July 7, 2014, 12:00 am
You’re right, Stephen, those were not Israelis. They were Martians!

And listening to you, I cannot but conclude the even Dick Cheney’s threshold for defining torture is lower than yours. I wonder if seeing a loved one endure what the kid had endured will make you reassess your views.

But whether you consider it torture or abuse is irrelevant because you still couldn’t bring yourself to even condemn what this kid had been through.

You didn’t even note the story exposing his ordeal.

Your words suggest that you’re condoning the actions taken against this kid, or at best being indifferent about them.
 

Ros G. (91)
Monday July 7, 2014, 3:20 am
Thanks Stephen........I really don't have a problem with people questioning...actually we should all do it more often and especially at the moment when tensions are running so high on both sides. You offered your expertise "I know exactly what it takes to make a mouth swell up like that, a single hit from an elbow" It may not of been torture (in your eyes) but was it as you explained? I suppose it all comes down to semantics then..a friend of mine feels tortured every time his phone rings........so I reached for my dictionary (hard copy....Collins New English) Torture n.the act of deliberately inflicting pain on a person as a form of punishment or reprisal, esp..to extort information or confession; anguish; torment. Not: "a short violent encounter (as expected when arresting someone during a riot), not a sustained period of torture" your sanitized version...our younger generations have been desensitized through TV, Video Games etc......
 

Marc P. (34)
Monday July 7, 2014, 7:23 pm
Standing on a child's back while another soldier kicks him repeatedly in the face IS torture! - Weather he committed a crime or not! It is also a violation of The Geneva Convention and several other Treaties regarding torture and the handling of children. You know what this kid's biggest credibility problem to many viewers in this country is??? - He isn't white and he looks like a Middle Eastern.... So he MUST have had it coming.... Right????
 

Marc P. (34)
Monday July 7, 2014, 7:28 pm
And don''t expect the U.S. government to do a damn thing. Our government is an accomplice regarding the torture and abuse of children at the hands of Israel.
 

jess b (24)
Monday July 7, 2014, 7:33 pm
President Barack Obama and Members of Congress: Stop All Aid to Israel and Apply Sanctions
 

jess b (24)
Monday July 7, 2014, 7:47 pm
129 Israeli Children and 1,523 Palestinian Children Have Been Killed Since September 29, 2000. Updated June 16, 2014
http://www.care2.com/news/member/429151634/3786434
 

Eleonora Oldani (48)
Tuesday July 8, 2014, 1:46 am
Hi Stephen - you can be so indifferent and callous;it's really astonishing. We are talking about

****** C H I L D R E N ******

You know real kids who like to have fun, hang out with their friends, talk about girls, exchange the latest IT gags and games, dream together about their future and do downright silly stuff only they can understand and enjoy.

Kids in normal parlance - like 8, 10, 13, 15, 16 years old Palestinian kids who get treated in an unspeakable way by the oh' so honorable IDF and Sec Serv of Israel and the whole world watches in silence - not in Israeli political language where a 12 yr old is an adult and treated as such ... yes, I know that there's a court ruling of 2 yrs ago if memory serves me right that before the age of 18 even Palestinian kids are to be treated as such - but you and I know that this court order is nothing but a piece of paper. Palestinian kids are still TORTURED, tried by military tribunals and incarcerated together with adults.

But if an Israeli "kid" of 19 years goes missing and ends up killed ... then the same whole world falls over each other to be the first one to condemn, to call for justice for the "heinous monsters", accepts immediately Netanyahu's insistance that it is Hamas (naturally as always without proof), the mothers have instant access to the US High Commission of HR to publicly speak, Israel systematically incites against Palestinians and Arabs in general - "whipe them out" ... we want to see their blodd flowing" ... "finish them off" are but a few examples from MAINSTREAM Israeli outlets ... and not many even take official notice ... and so on and so forth.

No Stephen, your side-tracking (into strange alleys) and your total lack of compassion and empathy towards the suffering of non-Jewish children is ... shocking to me and very disturbing.

On a private note: in one of the recent threads you offered me "a helping hand to make contacts or phone calls in Egypt if I need to get out" (paraphrased as I can't find it anymore). Thanks anyway but believe me, my social network is perfectly intact and well established and I have private access to all those who matter.
 

Eleonora Oldani (48)
Tuesday July 8, 2014, 1:58 am
Sorry - something went missing here: "kids not in Israeli political language where a 12 yr old is an adult ..."

While at it anyway. Stephen - I assume for you a 12-yr old Palestinian "adult" would be at least en par with a 19 yr old Israeli "kid"?
 

Eleonora Oldani (48)
Tuesday July 8, 2014, 2:08 am
Stephen - this might not interest you but it gives you an idea what we're talking about and the wide scale abuse of Palestinian children at the hands of Israelis - IDF soldiers as well as settler (http://www.care2.com/news/member/124335883/3786581):


Childhood under siege

Residents of Hebron, the most populous Palestinian city in the West Bank, complain of daily harassment from both Israeli soldiers and settlers. Between January 2012 and July 2013, OCHA estimates that 700 Palestinians were injured by Israeli soldiers or settlers in the city.

Hebron’s city center, including the historic Old City, the old market and the Ibrahimi Mosque, is under full Israeli military and civil control as part of a 1997 agreement between Israel and the Palestinian Authority. At that time, the city was split into two areas, H1, which is under Palestinian Authority control and H2, controlled by the Israeli military.

In a unique situation, the Old City now permanently hosts upwards of 3,000 Israeli soldiers and some 600 settlers in four settlements. Thousands of Palestinian shops have been closed and homes evacuated in this once-bustling area of the city.

The Abu Shamsiya family lives in a modest two-room house in the heart of the H2 area. Imad, his wife Faiza, and their three sons and two daughters are the frequent victims of both settler and military violence.

“Everyone in this house has been attacked before,” Imad, 40, told DCI-Palestine.

But Imad’s 9-year-old daughter Marwa and son Mohammad, 12, have both been the victims of particularly disturbing attacks.

In 2011, Marwa, then 7, was snatched by a group of settlers as she made her way home from school. They held her down and set her hair on fire. An Israeli soldier quickly intervened and put out the fire, but it was more than a year before Marwa was able to sleep through the night without waking up and screaming.

In October 2013, Mohammad was on his way to the store to fetch bread for his mother when he was stopped by an Israeli soldier. Mohammad told DCI-Palestine that the soldier asked him if he had recently thrown rocks, then he slapped Mohammad across the face twice and threatened to kill him.

“I went to tell my mom,” Mohammad said. “When my mom came to ask the soldier why (he hit me), he slammed her against the wall. When my dad went later, the soldier told him he hit me because he felt like it.”

Mohammad insists he is “used to the violence now,” but his mother, Faiza, told DCI-Palestine that all of her children are frightened at night.

~*~*~*~

And again - there are literally tons of such cases recorded by "credible sources" ... in other word non-Palestinian and non-Arabs as they don't count for the West and Israel ... and nobody gives a sh** - sorry!

 

Ros G. (91)
Tuesday July 8, 2014, 5:48 am
In some ways I can understand what Stephen is the product of..we all have expectations as parents ...".isn't that what we have worked so hard for... to give our children what we didn't have ??" Opportunities??? Those that were raised under that thinking never had a childhood......it was stolen from them by their parents...the children were so eager to please, be accepted and be loved........only now research has shown .......it is the abuser that they want to please........sometimes a 29 yr old is as innocent as a 9 yr old in their thinking.......don't be to harsh...it is our responsibility to nurture all....let him speak...........let him think .....and if he truly believes that he is superior....let him sink
 

Joy T. (263)
Tuesday July 8, 2014, 7:12 am
Noted.
 

Janis K. (101)
Tuesday July 8, 2014, 8:04 am
Noted thanks.
 

Terrie Williams (769)
Tuesday July 8, 2014, 10:28 am
All signed, shared and noted. Too disgusting and heartbreaking for words.
 

Marc P. (34)
Tuesday July 8, 2014, 2:21 pm
When we see stories such as the one Eleonora Oldani has written about regarding 9-year-old Marwa and her 12 year old brother Mohammad, we have to reconsider things. When we see adults holding down a 9 year old child and setting their hair on fire, we stare into the face of Evil. When we have people in position of authority and power who who slap children, and then abuse their mom in front of them and state they did if "Because the felt like it.", we are staring into the face of Evil. When we have a regime in power that not only condones and supports this behavior, but also encourages and enables it, we stare into he face of Evil. These people are no better than Nazi guards who tossed Jewish children into the ovens alive during the Holocaust. They are no better than Josef Mengele, German physician and SS captain who experimented on Jewish children during the Holocaust. These people are no better than the serial rapist that preys upon children. Israel's mindset regarding Palestinians is no different than any of these people and instances I mention. And the fact that the Jews do this "In the name of God." makes them AS dangerous, and as evil as any Muslim Terrorist. Those who stand by in silence, such as the U.S. and other countries who support this abuse by providing money, weapons, and other support, are evil as well. There is nothing Just, Lawful or righteous about any of this. As citizens we should not be allowing our Government to represent us in this way!
 

David B. (29)
Tuesday July 8, 2014, 2:37 pm
"And don''t expect the U.S. government to do a damn thing. Our government is an accomplice regarding the torture and abuse of children at the hands of Israel." Why?
 

Marc P. (34)
Tuesday July 8, 2014, 2:52 pm
There are several important reasons why Israel is an ally of the U.S. 2 stand out. 1 being that there is a large, wealthy Jewish Lobby that has purchased power in Washington. Second is that the U.S. has NO stable, reliable allies in that region. As a matter of fact, just about everyone over in that neck of the desert actively despises the U.S. and the countries that do support us occasionally re so unstable they are unreliable. Without U.S. financial support Israel would be at the mercy of their neighbors and are thus "Captive audience" allies should we need to take action in that region. Another less obvious reason is that the U.S. is (Not so...) secretly a "Christian" nation and despises all things Muslim. Israel disrupts the ability of Muslims to gain unity and power in that region.
 

Lauren Kozen (159)
Tuesday July 8, 2014, 11:50 pm
Noted, Signed & Shared.
Thanks for posting David.
 

Ros G. (91)
Wednesday July 9, 2014, 3:09 am
Thanks for that Marc.....most of those comments could be aimed at Australia as well. David being a fellow Australian.....what do you think our Government would do..look at our Human Rights record......it's appalling has been right from the start......as for standing up to the Israeli Government they couldn't even do it for Prisoner X, Ben Zygier..the Australian/Israeli....soldier/Mossad Agent who languished in prison...
 

AwayNoMail Plze S. (498)
Wednesday July 9, 2014, 12:08 pm
Noted & shared.
Thanks David & Ondine for passing it to me.
 

Eleonora Oldani (48)
Wednesday July 9, 2014, 5:27 pm
Dear Friends,

Sorry to bother you again but this is an urgent petition by Jewish Voice for Peace and I'd very much appreciate if you sign, note and share it as widely as possible. Thanks for all you do!

http://www.care2.com/news/member/558572678/3787066

PS for Stephen - it would be nice if you could bring yourself to sign this petition too!
 

Eleonora Oldani (48)
Wednesday July 9, 2014, 5:54 pm

This was an appeal to join today's demonstration in Tel Aviv - forwarded by Gush Shalom. Not ALL Israelis condemn what polit-Israel is doing in their names! I urge you to remember this - thanks!

~*~*~*~

Stop the Killing, End the Occupation!

We will not remain quiet as the bombs are falling!

Wednesday July 9th at 18:00
Habima Square, Tel Aviv

In the past month, Israel raided several thousand homes, and arrested over 600 Palestinians, including women and children.

Also in the last few weeks, everyday forms of racism and violence, by the state and its officials, have escalated exponentially.

Thousands of hate-filled Israeli citizens poured into the streets, seeking revenge, destruction and violence.

Ongoing occupation, daily oppression, house demolitions, destruction of lives.

The Israeli government is relentless - demolishing in Hebron, expropriating lands in the Naqab / Negev, brutally suppressing popular protests, attacking Gaza.

Once again, Israel launched yet another irresponsible and unnecessary military 'operation,' at the expense of the residents of the south, who, together with Gazans, deserve to live in dignity, without constant and daily threats.

Bombardments and casualties lead nowhere, except for further bombings, rockets and blood. Stop militarism, end the occupation!

!Contact: Maayan Dak +972-(0)508-575729
Coalition of Women for Peace
 

Stephen Brian (23)
Wednesday July 9, 2014, 10:39 pm
Hi Sam and Eleonora :)

I was and still am suspicious that the video might have been recycled, something from years ago or even elsewhere, or outright faked. If it was real, even recycled, I sympathize with the victim of torture. As for the kid, I certainly don't like seeing kids get hurt either. The child was hurt, he should not have been, and I wish him a speedy full recovery, but to assume that the injuries were torture by authorities is almost silly.

Physical torture, as it is done now, normally involves life-threatening or certainly fatal injury, almost always injuries that do not heal on their own. I'm talking about power-drills to the genitalia (Iraqi militia-style), electrodes in every orifice (which occurs more often in Asia), life-threatening beatings of the sort seen in the video (and elsewhere), that kind of thing. Calling a bruised cheek, a few scrapes, and a swollen mouth "torture" is an insult to all victims of real torture.

About the petition, I too believe that the root-cause of the problem must be addressed. Unfortunately, I genuinely do not believe Israel's military control of the Gaza Strip and West Bank to be that root-cause as the violence long predates the 1967 war. Had the petition stopped with "this violence has fallen overwhelmingly on Palestinians" and not presumed a specific root-cause that makes no sense without time-travel, I would have signed happily. As it is, sadly, I cannot do so in good conscience.

Hi Ros :)

I am concerned for the "abuser" in many cases because I genuinely believe in the presumption of innocence, not only by justice-systems capable of engaging in punitive measures, but in personal judgment too. I have seen and been targeted by too many witch-hunts to jump to condemnation, no matter how much I sympathize and empathize with those who are suffering. In this case, I want to help Palestinians, but I believe the work of most "peace activists" to run directly contrary to that goal and to the goal of peace. If I must be called evil or childish for disagreeing, after due diligence, with the fads among "social justice warriors", then so be it. I have no problem with that.
 

Sam H. (403)
Thursday July 10, 2014, 12:15 am
Stephen, I don’t know if what you said is silly, lamentable or both! All I know is that you’re more of a lost cause than peace in that part of the world.

For your own sake, I hope you’re better at simulation than you are at defining torture!
 

Stephen Brian (23)
Friday July 11, 2014, 6:38 pm
Hi Sam :)

A lot of people seriously underestimate the true level of barbarism out there and overuse the term "torture" to the point where there is a danger that it may lose all meaning, disrupting any real attempts at stopping it.

Imagine if every criminal physical assault were labeled "murder". Assault at any level is usually wrong, but that's just the wrong word, and having it proliferate like that would lead inevitably to getting the same penalties for real murderers and people who drunkenly shove each other, either ridiculously harsh for one group or ridiculously lax for the other.

Likewise, police brutality is wrong, but it is not necessarily torture. Real torture is at a totally different level, beyond waterboarding or any of the other stuff too many counterproductive activists call "torture" these days. (That said, I',m not even jumping to the conclusion that this was criminal brutality. My understanding is that the kid was arrested in a riot. People get hurt in riots, especially when they get arrested by police officers who must follow abnormally violent procedures for their own safety, and even more if they actually resist arrest. Of course, I'm not jumping to that conclusion either. I genuinely don't know what happened there, and I am not inclined to just trust the story posted here after seeing the discrepancy between the video and the picture.)
 

Marc P. (34)
Friday July 11, 2014, 7:25 pm
Stephen Brian: The problem is that it is not just ONE story. There are thousands. Abuse of Palestinian children is rampant and to many of the Israeli settlers it is a sport. There have been thousands of former Israeli soldiers coming forth with verification of their witnessing, and being coerced/forced into torturing and abusing thse children. Not to mention that Israel has an actual PLAN to control the Palestinian population through terrorizing its children. You must be from the U.S. as I am. Because the info I have shared certainly is NOT reported in US media. Yesterday I watched an ABC Evening news report that showed 1 Israeli boy slightly injured and scared because ONE scud missile landed nearby. Meanwhile hundreds of children have been injured and who knows how many more killed by Israeli bombing. NO attempt was made to even address thus point. Several days ago a picture of a woman in front of a home leveled by a bomb labeled her as an Israeli victim. The story went on and on about Palestinian evil and how awful scenes like this are. All told by a reporter with this picture in the background. Today the same reporter came on and said "Sorry. We misreported the other day. This home is that of a Palestinian." No 5 minute story on how the innocents of Palestine are suffering. No mention of ANYTHING! I am American. I am Catholic. I care not about any of the religions over there. What I DO care about is the fact that my country apparently is an ally of a country that promotes, practices, and endorses the torture of children and the innocent. Those kids are killed by OUR bombs. We pay Israel to fund the torture and horrific abuse of children and genocide as well. And those citizens here who deny, ignore, or excuse this are as guilty as the torturer regarding what is happening to the children and innocents.
 

Eleonora Oldani (48)
Sunday July 13, 2014, 4:36 pm




Has anyone heard/read anything from/by Abo over the last few days? I wonder and worry if he is OK.

Abo - if you can read these lines just let us know if you're OK; no need for eloquent words. We - your friends here on C2 - are worried about your wellbeing!




 

jess b (24)
Sunday July 13, 2014, 4:52 pm
I heard from Abo yesterday. His house was shaking from the air strikes; no electricity!!! Abo, we, your friends, stand with you in solidarity with Gaza and against the deplorable Israeli reign of terror.
May you be safe and protected from harm!
 

Eleonora Oldani (48)
Sunday July 13, 2014, 5:55 pm

Thanks a lot Jess - what a relieve! I just hope he and his family make it through this horror safe!
 

Farah Hage Ali (159)
Sunday July 20, 2014, 8:26 am
Thank you Sam for sharing, it is absolute inhumanity
 
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