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Redefining Radical: Catholic Nuns - V - The Vatican


Society & Culture  (tags: activists, americans, children, culture, dishonesty, education, freedoms, politics, religion, society, women )

Kit
- 856 days ago - nationofchange.org
It would be a fine show watching the bishops try to scramble and pick up the slack if the sisters said "enough."



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Comments

John Gregoire (257)
Saturday June 16, 2012, 5:05 am
Thanks Kit, this is so true and so wonderful!
 

Michael T. (82)
Saturday June 16, 2012, 7:07 pm
Not only did they put a man in charge of trying to sti on the nuns they chose one who is notorious for being ruthless in his pursuit of whatever it is he goes after for the church. I can't remember his name but I think he was also involved in pedophile scandal coverups.

I hope these women don't give in, and find ways, as I know women can be very clever and persistent, to undo and out do these bombastic and evil male religious representatives. They have my support.
 

Kit B. (276)
Saturday June 16, 2012, 7:34 pm

Support "Nuns on a Bus" these ladies may be the last vestiges of true Christian thinking. They give freely of themselves to assist those in need. They work with the sick, the homeless, the hungry and they teach and give without judgement. They have out-reach groups for those of LGBT who have been tossed out of their homes.

Michael, I think you mean Bishop Dolan, a hit-man for the pope.
 

pam w. (191)
Sunday June 17, 2012, 1:11 am
n short, the Vatican has made a parody of itself, pulling out its most retrograde positions and doubling down on them. That the Pope is accusing nuns of promoting “radical feminist themes” only shows how out of touch he is with radical feminism.

++++++++++++++ Well, yes, there's THAT.

But let's also talk about how out of touch the Vatican is with its own CULPABILITY in the horrible abuse of children...the cover-up....the hypocrisy....and the smoke-screen created to divert attention from the priests and turn a critical public eye onto NUNS, who have done NOTHING except live out their principles.
 

. (0)
Sunday June 17, 2012, 5:05 am
Clearly there are splits in the Catholic Church, not least between The Vatican and the US Nuns, what I am less certain about is the position of the Catholic Bishops in the US.
 

Allan Yorkowita (445)
Sunday June 17, 2012, 11:56 am
It's so interesting to read that in fact, the Vatican does not know how to deal with these ladies. It's almost fun to watch the higher ups (those who are closer to God) squirm.
 

Val R. (244)
Sunday June 17, 2012, 12:38 pm
I pray they REVOLT - this pope is pure evil - what are we going back to the dark ages where women are purely servants - I think NOT! Go SISTERS GO!
 

Marcia Mueller (13)
Sunday June 17, 2012, 12:39 pm
I hope the sisters do not cave in to a group of patriarchal men with fixed ideas and inflexible minds. Many of the nuns are facing the real issues of the world today, including problems of the environment and the duty of human beings to care for the rest of creation (as in we are a part of creation, not lords of it). Their interest in social justice and the rights of nonhuman animals is much needed today. Hopefully they will also admit the enormous problems looming with overpopulation, a subject the contraception-hating men will never address except to demand more children.
 

trina firey (9)
Sunday June 17, 2012, 5:18 pm
The sisters must stand their ground and oppose changes from these disgusting males. They are
austentatious (sp?) frauds! Nuns are in the real world, doing the real good while the priests and biships and pope take credit for Godly deeds they don't care enough to make the effort to do themselves!
I am not downing brothers or all priests as some are cool & open minded-just those with prejudice
and hate. There is too much oppression and denial of women as equals in the Catholic church. It needs to stop
Or we need to stop the church. They use their money & power to influence laws of the land it impacts all US citizens' freedoms.
 

Michael T. (82)
Sunday June 17, 2012, 5:33 pm
The world is basically driven by and therefore lives in a tradition of androcentric misogynist patriarchal males. That is basically the culture of this world whether it be Islam or christian organizations.
In Genesis it was written that god said let us make him a help like unto himself. This god was talking about making a woman for man. Make him a help. Later after all of that funny business about eating the fruit of the tree. As punishment, To the woman also god said: I will multiply they sorrows, and they conceptions. In sorrow shalt you bring forth children, and be under thy husband’s power, and he shal have dominion over thee. For the man this god only made tilling the earth hard work.
This is extremely sexist stuff. I think the Quran is even worse. After a couple thousand years of this kind of indoctrination the entire world knows that men are in charge and women are second class citizens. If there is any place better than the church for this to be changed I don’t know of one. This is where it has to be challenged to begin to remove it from our traditions toward women in our civilization. We should stand by these nuns even if we don’t believe in their religion to help bring this about.
This is where most of the way men treat women comes from. Let’s end it.
 

Past Member (0)
Sunday June 17, 2012, 10:23 pm
If I ever saw a positive Christian post done, it would be a miracle. The big, bad evil Church, blah, blah, blah....
 

Lloyd H. (46)
Monday June 18, 2012, 6:31 am
Actually it is Cardinal Dolan, just as with nearly every other high ranking male mamber of the Catholic Church that has protected, defended and/or provided predatory pedophile clergy, from former Cardinal Ratsucker to Law to Dolan et alia, they are rewarded with promotions and power. The Nuns have committed the ultimae sin, "Thou Shalt Not Practice the Teachings of Christ When the Man Made Rules of the Church Differ.". To serve the least of God's Children interfers with the use of those services to extort political action or inaction.
 

Kit B. (276)
Monday June 18, 2012, 7:56 am

Yes, Lloyd it is Archbishop Dolan, still a water boy for the pope.

I have no idea what so upsets, Magyar Girl, facing the realities of the politics of the Catholic Church is not unchristian, it is a desire by many to support the Nuns and direct the Church toward a more honestly Christian path. Maybe reading and learning more about what the Nuns are saying would be helpful. This article is not anti-Christian, but it is strongly supportive of the nuns who work, and give their lives to their beliefs.
 

Beverly M. (85)
Monday June 18, 2012, 7:59 am
Wonderful share Kit! One of the "Nuns on the Bus" was on Daily Show last week, and I truly admire their spunk and the work they do on behalf of those in need.
 

Arielle S. (317)
Monday June 18, 2012, 8:06 am
If the entire Catholic Church behaved as the nuns do, I would join it - as it is, I have little interest in a "religion" (and I use that term loosely) that sits on billions of dollars in both money and treasures, while poor people suffer and do without. I think it's time to dump the pope and put a woman in charge....
 

Lloyd H. (46)
Monday June 18, 2012, 8:15 am
Kit, I must disagree with you, Timothy Dolan, formerly Arch-Bishop, was elevated to Cardinal in St Peter's Basilica on Feb. 18, 2012 red biretta, gold ring and all by Pope Bendict XVI, formerly Cardinal Ratsucker.
 

Janet G. (0)
Monday June 18, 2012, 1:17 pm
Thanks for the article. I hope the nuns stand by their beliefs, no matter what.
 

BMutiny TCorporationsEvil (467)
Monday June 18, 2012, 1:46 pm
A while ago, a group of Nuns actually LEFT THE CATHOLIC CHURCH as a Protest, THEIR ENTIRE ORDER LEFT AS A BODY.
They HAD TITLE TO THE LAND THEIR CONVENT WAS ON, FORTUNATELY!
They SOLD THE LAND, and bought another place to still keep living together.

This is interesting, because I thought that Nuns, unlike the men in the Catholic Church, were never paid and never allowed to own anything.
The average age of all Nuns, by the way, is OVER 70 YEARS OF AGE.
It would be WONDERFUL, I think, if ALL THE NUNS WOULD FOLLOW THE EXAMPLE OF THE ONES WHO LEFT THE CHURCH.
The Vatican would UNDOUBTEDLY try to CHEAT THEM OUT OF ANY LAND OR PROPERTY OR MONEY.

Already, citing -- Boo hoo hoo! -- "money problems" because of PAYING OFF PEDOPHILE PRIESTS' VICTIMS AND PEDOPHILE PRIESTS' LAWYERS, the Vatican has proposed CLOSING a number of Convents and KICKING THE AGED NUNS OUT INTO THE STREET!!! This sordid fact is TRUE!!!
THEY WANT TO MAKE THE NUNS, AFTER THEY ARE RETIRED AND NO GOOD TO THE CHURCH ANY MORE FOR THEIR WORK, THEY WANT TO MAKE -- THE NUNS!!! -- PAY FOR THE PEDOPHILE PRIESTS' EXPENSES!!!!!!

I am also told, that if Retired Nuns are kept in Convents, too old or too sick to work for the Church, THEIR FAMILIES, OR ELSE WELFARE -- TAXPAYERS' MONEY -- HAVE TO PAY FOR THEIR UPKEEP.
This is HARD TO BELIEVE.
No, on the other hand, it ISN'T hard to believe!

IN THE LIGHT OF ALL THESE FACTS, I WOULD SAY THAT THERE IS REALLY NO REASON WHATSOEVER FOR THE VATICAN MALE HIERARCHY TO COMMAND THE "LOYALTY" OF ITS "FEMALE SLAVE LABOR";
and,
ALL THE NUNS SHOULD LEAVE THE CHURCH, EVERY SINGLE LAST ONE OF THEM.
RIGHT NOW!!! NO BETTER TIME!
 

BMutiny TCorporationsEvil (467)
Monday June 18, 2012, 1:59 pm
By the way, I highly recommend "YES!" Magazine, it is put out by some people I have {briefly} met in the Pacific Northwest and carries articles on Positive Social Change -- as opposed to the gloom-and-doom hand-wringing of some mags dealing with issues!
YES! is published quarterly for $24 per year by the Positive Futures Network at 284 Madrona Way NE, Suite 116, Bainbridge Island, WA 98110-2870.
website; www.yesmagazine.org

Oh, did you notice that this article was from YES! Magazine?
I promote this Magazine every chance I get!
Recently I went to a Forum they had in Seattle, featuring Alice Walker, author of The Color Purple; and Francis Moore Lappe', author of Diet for a Small Planet. Both Respected Elders now.....
 

Brenda Towers (0)
Monday June 18, 2012, 2:17 pm
The Roman Catholic Hierarchy always close ranks. They have lost the meaning of Christ's teachings in their desire for power. Christ refused the temptation to use power, why don't they follow in their Master's footsteps?
 

. (0)
Monday June 18, 2012, 3:32 pm
Thank you for sharing. For what it's worth, based on the nuns I've met over the years, the Pope is out-matched in this battle! ;-)
 

Mary Donnelly (47)
Monday June 18, 2012, 4:59 pm
Thanks Kit.
 

John B. (175)
Monday June 18, 2012, 6:53 pm
The RCC hierarchy wouldn't know what to do if the nuns up and left the church. The nuns are in the trenches daily dealing with the real life issues of the ordinary person. Thanks for the article Kit. Read and noted.
 

Kit B. (276)
Monday June 18, 2012, 7:15 pm

Exactly John. The nuns hold this church together, the priests may minister to those of their parish, but the nuns reach out to all.
 

Robert Tomlinson (65)
Monday June 18, 2012, 8:56 pm
Kit, thanks for this post. We need to keep stoking the fires of Justice and Mercy. How else are the Bishops and those in the Vatican going to learn the meaning of Christianity?
 

Robert Hardy (67)
Monday June 18, 2012, 9:08 pm
In the war on women, Nuns lead the charge.... trust me, it is good to have Nuns on our side.
 

William K. (308)
Monday June 18, 2012, 9:19 pm
I would actually hope that these nuns would stay in the church, as there will only be the oppressive crazies left if all the real Christians leave.

It's a sad day when those who really do the Lord's Work are condemned as radicals for doing so, and not supporting the drive to interfere in US politics in an attempt to tear down the Wall of Separation of Church and State and install Church doctrine as worldly power.
 

BMutiny TCorporationsEvil (467)
Tuesday June 19, 2012, 1:04 am
William: The Nuns staying in the Church, to me looks like putting a "nice" facade on the misogyny, pedophilia, support for fascist dictatorships, anti-sex and anti-contraception and anti-gay and other horrible social advocacies of the Church Hierarchy -- they don't DESERVE the support and the "good will" the Nuns give to them!!!

I just read an article in the German newspaper Der Spiegel {translated into English}: the Conservatives and the Far Right {including the INFAMOUS Opus Dei Cult, yes they do really exist outside of the "Da Vinci Code" novel}, these elements are growing stronger in the Roman Catholic Church. The Papacy is in disarray, riven by multiple scandals; the Conservative and fanatic Far Right religious elements are conducting "purges" of priests in Germany, for example, who do not conform to every ridiculous reactionary point of doctrine. It sounds as if this "witchhunt of the Nuns" is like a part of that.

If Opus Dei and its followers has its way, the Nuns will be booted out anyhow -- so I think they should SHOW THEM and just LEAVE! Because, like others who have posted here, I DON'T THINK THE NUNS ARE GOING TO BACK DOWN.....

By the way, did you know that the Vatican, the smallest "country" {ha!} in the world, has ITS OWN PRISON -- and IN that prison right now, a cell about 300 feet square, there is a PRISONER! -- a Vatican Butler accused of LEAKING VATICAN SECRETS to the outside world...... No, this isn't a crazy novel about the Renaissance, this has been REPORTED BY THE WORLD PRESS.......
{Maybe the "compromising letters" the Butler is said to have leaked, will tell us finally, as we suspect, that the Pope-a-dope, with his Expensive Red Shoes by Prada, that the Pope really IS gay......}

[Yes, the Vatican can LEGALLY PUT A MAN IN PRISON inside the building, and keep him there FOREVER if they feel like it -- officially, they call themselves A COUNTRY and can make their own LAWS -- so don't go offending the Pope-a-dope!]
 

BMutiny TCorporationsEvil (467)
Tuesday June 19, 2012, 1:23 am
In the article or articles, several actually, that I read in Der Spiegel magazine, which were quite enlightening; it said that the Pope, who is 85 years old, is losing or has "lost control" over what is going on around him -- after all, he is German and 75% or 85% of those around him in the Vatican, are Italian; he, the Pope, is not much of an "executive" type, but has retreated into writing a book and given up trying to do anything of a "leadership" nature. His main concerns are about how to define "miracles" and such abstruse points of doctrine; really MEDIEVAL concerns! In other words, the guy is "out of it" and the Vatican bureaucracy is a place of vicious gossip, slander, intrigue, backbiting, maneuvering for position, and such edifying stuff. THAT sounds like a novel -- or a history! -- about the Renaissance!
The Catholic Church in Germany, meanwhile, has huge splits between those who want to reform, and the aforementioned reactionary and far-right groups -- who seem to be gaining in power. And getting rid of priests and others who stand in their way. One source of this interesting stuff, is Hans Kung, a Swiss Catholic theologian who for SEVERAL YEARS HAS BEEN FORBIDDEN TO TEACH; why? because he dared to CHALLENGE THE CATHOLIC DOCTRINE OF THE POPE'S "INFALLIBILITY"!!!!!!!!!!!!

Also, notice how the German Catholic Church, like other Catholic Churches, is REAL QUICK TO GET RID OF PRIESTS THE LEAST LITTLE BIT DEVIANT FROM THE CURRENT INTERPRETATION OF "DOCTRINE" --
while NOT MAKING AT ALL THE SAME EFFORT TO GET RID OF SERIAL RAPISTS AND PEDOPHILES.
TYPICAL and DISGUSTING.
Wonder what IS in those letters and papers the Butler leaked? They didn't say........
 

Susanne R. (249)
Wednesday June 20, 2012, 1:27 pm
I agree with most of the great comments but would like to add that I find it curious that the pope and his bishops have not only relegated the most difficult work to the nuns and given them absolutely no authority --but they adorn themselves with gowns made of expensive satin and lace and brocades with gold adornments. The pope's hat (I prefer this term to tiara or crown) collection rivals that of Queen Elizabeth or a whole company of drag queens. They are adorned with rubies, sapphires, pearls and other large and valuable gemstones. I could whip up something much less expensive yet just as eye-catching with a sous chef hat and a bedazzler. Many nuns, on the other hand, still have their faces pinched by heavily starched wimples and suffer through ungodly heat wearing two layers of heavy clothing to ensure that no part of their body is visible and that they experience the required amount of discomfort as dictated by their superiors.

I'm sorry if anyone is offended by my comments, but I was raised a strict Roman Catholic and it took me a long time to realize that I wasn't going to be sent directly to hell after being struck by lightning if I dared to disagree with what I was taught. The fear was so ingrained, that I still wonder whether or not I'll be able to press the "submit" button once I finish composing this irreverent comment. So if my words reflect any wisdom at all, it's wisdom borne of pain.
 

Michael T. (82)
Wednesday June 20, 2012, 1:40 pm
@Suzanne R writes but would like to add that I find it curious that the pope and his bishops have not only relegated the most difficult work to the nuns and given them absolutely no authority --but they adorn themselves with gowns made of expensive satin and lace and brocades with gold adornments.

Well noted. This hierarchy and its flaunting of the wealth the males of this church hold on to is daunting. They are, after all, the wealthiest organization on the planet. Google it if you want. It is obscene. Anyone interested in learning more I recommend a little book title the Bad Popes by Chamberlin. It would also be interesting to get into the archives they hold on to of non-canonical literature they hold in secret that would undo them, and which they have prevented from reaching the light of day.

@Suzanne R writes I'm sorry if anyone is offended by my comments

I hope people are offended, and I hope they are offended enough to do some research to finally determine that what you are saying is the absolute truth about the higher ups of their vaunted faith, and what a contradiction that is to what they preach. Thanks again Suzanne R.
 

Zully O. (0)
Thursday June 21, 2012, 2:13 am
catholic hypocresy
 
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