Tuesday July 17, 2012, 12:33 pm
noted thanks !

Tuesday July 17, 2012, 3:21 pm
Thanks, Kit....VERY WELL WRITTEN!

Tuesday July 17, 2012, 3:58 pm
"The issue really has been control - who controls reproduction, men or women? Hence, the prevalence of parental and spousal notification laws governing abortions. The abortion issue is really about male control in family life - and in society in general."

I agree it has always been about control. All religion is about control. All religion has always been controlled by men and used to control other men and most of all, women. It used to be simple enough for me to say, as a male, I have no stake in this, until I can get pregnant this is an issue best left to women and their doctors. But that isn't enough anymore, certainly not since 2010 when every Republican in the country suddenly seemed to decide it was their right to control women's reproduction. Not that this hasn't been true around the world forever, it is just that now it has gotten so brazen as to involve men with seemingly nothing else on their mind but women's rights, not just reproductive freedom - which is STILL constitutionally guaranteed - but virtually everything they don't approve of. Why this is so important to them is beyond me. It isn't that they care about children - their track record in devastating programs that serve children outside of the womb is atrocious. They want nothing to do with those noisy, smelly, adorable infants once born. But BE BORN they must. This is like rape. It isn't about sex, it is about power. And that is what religion and politics have in common, they are both about power and its exercise and the way you do that is by making other people bend to your will. Men are completely shameless in this regard, "ethics" in business and politics and religion is an oxymoron given what leaks out from behind those closed doors. No, this is about power. And women are easy targets. Or so these fools think. I think, it is no longer enough for me to say I have no horse in this race because if I sit silently while the religionists and republicans (sometimes, but not always, the same thing - I actually think most republicans are atheists, religion to them is just a vehicle designed to garner them power, yes I am that cynical) will not stop when they have relegated women and the GLBT community to the back room, they'll come after the rest of us next. So, yes, progressive men do have a horse in this race. Freedom. For all of us. All of the time. Or we'll all be doing nothing but holding chairs and serving drinks to the 1%er's.

Tuesday July 17, 2012, 11:08 pm
seems to me that certain people (pretend to) care more about "life" before birth and "life" after death than for life between birth and death, let alone the quality of this real life.

fukkkkkkkkkkk Patriarchy

" How come, when it's us it's an "abortion" and when it's a chicken it's an "omlette" ? " -- George Carlin

Tuesday July 17, 2012, 11:10 pm
... cannot currently send a star to Kit ...

Tuesday July 17, 2012, 11:35 pm
another great post kit Ty

Wednesday July 18, 2012, 3:32 am
Great article Kit.....I did a paper in grad school on late term procedures....and Yes the phrase "partial birth abortion" had to be coined by someone on a right wing mission but then I have always said that the debate or "labels used" need to be anti and pro choice.When it is coined pro choice and pro-life (as it is now) it alludes to the fact that pro-choice folks want to go around murdering "little babies"...again more smoke and mirrors. It boils down to choice.......when you dictate no choice that track grows ever larger and more rights and freedoms are taken away. I like the omelet/George Carlin reference.Our words communicate many things and I think pro-choice and anti-choice is a great change and really pinpoints the issue at stake!!!!

Wednesday July 18, 2012, 5:32 pm
My Grandmother, a married woman with three children already {one of them my Mother}, had an abortion -- a very large percentage of women who have abortions, are married. My grandmother, a soon-to-be widow, whose husband was dying, did this FOR her family to SURVIVE under desperate economic circumstances -- probably my Mother would not have been able to go on to Higher Education {where she met my Father}, without my Grandmother's care and foresight for her children. My Grandmother's abortion was illegal at the time, in Germany. Then as in all times and all places when abortions were illegal, there were some compassionate skilled medical personnel available, if you were lucky and knew where to look.......

"Saving lives of Americans"??? What if we go back to the old coat-hanger self-abortion days??? What about all the motherless children and broken homes, when the mothers died of botched abortions, either self-induced or at the hands of unskilled quacks?

Right, it's about CONTROL, it has NOTHING to do with "saving lives"........
Women have used abortion methods, often effective herbs, since the beginning of time...... and the Women who used and shared such knowledge, in Europe were often EXECUTED AS WITCHES......

Thursday July 19, 2012, 10:35 am
Abortion shouldn't be banned, but it isn't an entirely good thing.

Thursday July 19, 2012, 12:49 pm
I am so glad I don't live in Texas anymore, and pity anyone who does! As a man, I have no right to tell a woman what to do with the baby she's carrying, whether it's mine or not. After all, she's the one who will have to carry it around 9 months or so, after all, she puts a lot more into it than I do.

Thursday July 19, 2012, 5:17 pm
You've definitely 'a stake' in this, Gene Jacobson. While there can only be one decision-maker when it comes to abortion (no other practical way) and while I've a strong preference for that being the woman (since she's the one actually physically pregnant), the man's a definite stake. Woman decides for abortion, he's not a father (and he may really want to be a father). Decides against abortion, he's a father (sometimes when he strongly hates the idea of fatherhood). Major stake.

Which is why I haven't the view that anti-abortion's a men-controlling-women situation. Men'll be negatively impacted if abortion's illegal as women will (just as they're negatively impacted by legal abortion sometimes). It's mostly those with a religious belief against abortion (and that includes both religious men AND women) who're trying to use their beliefs to control everyone else on abortion issues.

Thursday July 19, 2012, 8:43 pm
Noted. Much thanks, Kit. Loved Gene's comment. If I hear one more wingnut say, "those poor little babies" I'm going to puke. Sometimes I get so exasperated, I just blurt, "Abortion's been legal since 1973--get over it already!" But, I really like the suggested way to address them in this article...I promise I will try.

Thursday July 19, 2012, 9:03 pm
What bothers me is that there are people who are opposed to abortion, but they eat meat! They have empathy, compassion and respect for a fetus, which according to scientific studies does not feel pain until 2-4 weeks prior to full-term delivery. Terminating a pregnancy may be in the best interest of the woman and the fetus, avoiding pain and suffering for both. Factory farming and slaughterhouses cause fear, pain, and suffering to living, feeling beings for the satisfaction of anti-abortionists taste buds. Go figure.

Friday July 20, 2012, 12:54 am
Thanks Kit--another great post.

Friday July 20, 2012, 8:54 am
I have just flagged the spam. Please do the same. We must do this again and again, it seems!
Here is what I wrote to Care2: {and please look up the Petition to Care2 on Spam!}:
THIS IS ANOTHER OF THOSE ADS SELLING ILLEGAL COUNTERFEIT PRODUCTS. THEY ALSO SELL CRUELTY PRODUCTS MADE BY SKINNING CATS AND DOGS ALIVE. CARE2, WHERE ARE YOU? WHERE ARE YOUR MORALS?

Friday July 20, 2012, 9:56 am
Jeremiah 1:5

Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

I think it is sad that so many do not believe in life at conception. All these babies lives taken away... What contribution they could have made to society? God's knows each and everyone of them and one day they will rule and reign with Christ.. Thank you Lord for your love and mercy!!

Sunday July 22, 2012, 11:58 am
"I think it is sad that so many do not believe in life at conception. All these babies lives taken away... What contribution they could have made to society?"

What is truly sad is the staggering count of babies left to grow into young adults in adoption homes..then tossed out to live on their own..no parents..no family..no home..or even worse possible abuse and death..from foster care..What about their "life" then..And where are all of the ones who are so against birth control/abortion..why are you all stepping up to adopt these kids..and give them a decent life..

No instead religion destroys the intellect..and turns some people into ignorant..superstitious morons..who can only go around and preach/judge..

Are we living in the 21st century or another era where women were supposed to stay home and have as many children as “some god” chooses to give her.. This is no longer just an issue of just abortions..this is becoming an issue of whether or not women are allowed to choose whether to have children when and if they want them and is and should be a fundamental right of all women and not something decided by religious zealots..
I thought the meaning of a "Christian" was someone who accepts Jesus as their savior.. Not someone who goes around trying to force their beliefs on others..

Thanks Kit..
noted..