Saturday February 9, 2008, 5:19 am
Clearing land to plant the biofuel source is the biggest threat. Here's a snippet from the story:

It does not matter if it is rain forest or scrubland that is cleared, the greenhouse gas contribution is significant. More important, they discovered that, taken globally, the production of almost all biofuels resulted, directly or indirectly, intentionally or not, in new lands being cleared, either for food or fuel.

“When you take this into account, most of the biofuel that people are using or planning to use would probably increase greenhouse gasses substantially,” said Timothy Searchinger, lead author of one of the studies and a researcher in environment and economics at Princeton University. “Previously there’s been an accounting error: land use change has been left out of prior analysis.”

Saturday February 9, 2008, 5:49 am
Very informative story. Noted with thanks Cate.

Saturday February 9, 2008, 5:50 am
HI Cate!
Biofuels are dangerous because millions of people will starve to death if we fuel up our
cars with food!!!!! I rather have my olive oil on the salad than in my car!!!! We need to find clean energy!
I have been speaking with the chief environmentalist from VOLVO they will come up with plug in cars!
If you drive this car with waterpower you drive with zero emission!!!! That will be the future plus hydrogene
power.... Time to come up with new ideas... cars can be very much less heavy and more safe in future!
The Volvo Eco Design Forum was a great meeting at the ISPO! Many interested companies who want to go green!!!

Saturday February 9, 2008, 6:30 am
Saw an interesting pro/con on the news yesterday some interesting comments about using sugar cane vs. corn, & considering biofuels as an interim step until 'real' green cars are available.... need to get USA's car companies off the dole and into the real world!! Just my purrsonal opinion

Saturday February 9, 2008, 6:39 am
2 Problems: intricately and elaborately related and currently being suppressed from the people

Flesh as Food, The Inefficiency of growing food to be fed to animals to be fed to humans is ridiculous , that is why the Rain Forest is being cut down , to grow soy to feed animals.

Also the other MAJOR , equally problematic is the illegality of HEMP
Hemp is the most useful plant on the planet, for oil , for Food and Fuel,

Hemp grows so tall and its fiber is the strongest, its seed the healthiest, its flower the most medicinal yet this is all being kept from us

The War Profiteers made Hemp illegal in 1938 and it has been the downfall of the USA,
Instead of living within the Laws of Nature , We are fighting it, Thank goodness for the internet
By pointing to Bio Fuels as the problem without including Everything is pointless , but with this 'single problem'
mentality we are more likely to support a single solution , War. and thats the way the profiteers like it

As a government , We need to stop subsidizing Meat Production
and allow the re-legalization of Hemp.

lentils are 79 cents a bag and require much less resources than growing grain then feeding a animals for 2 years ,
'LIVE VEGAN or Die'
IS the Reality!
and feeling better and more alive is the trade off!

Watch Earthlings Video
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1282796533661048967

Saturday February 9, 2008, 7:42 am
I think we discussed this earlier in another article, but on the threat of repeating myself, I'll do it again.

I am from Indiana originally and owned a funeral home in NW Indiana in a farming community. When the prices of corn and other normally harvested crops, the farmers were looking for other ways to keep their farms productive and prosperous.

Some farmers began planting fields of mint (wonder smells during harvest). Others planted sunflowers to harvest the seeds for cooking oils and treats (beautiful if you were headed west in the morning). Some of the farmers began turning their corn and soy fields into truck farms. Truck farms are vegetables which are sold to major canning companies such as Wesson (Redenbacher popcorn), Del Monte, and so on.

Some of these farmers became extremely successful ... UNTIL ... as with the corn and soy crops ... the market became flooded. As one of my farmer friends told me, the reason a farmer forms the bill of his hat into a half oval, was so he could look in the mailbox easier. He said, "To stay alive, we have to farm the government."

In, I'm relying on my drug infested mine, 1975, the desire for ethanol as a gasoline supplement, became the cry, as it is now, of the farmer. Thus, the first ethanol plant in the country was built near my home town. I was approached to invest in the plant with a guarantee of a fantastic return on my money... yeah right!

The plant was built, but it was found, as the article here suggests, it takes more energy to produce a gallon of ethanol than that same gallon would save. The farmers found a new market, but that market soon dried up when everything was put into perspective.

I and the other investors were fortunately enough to get our money back, but the big money never did appear. Be thankful for little things.

With the huge farm lobby, we are seeing more and more push toward ethanol, but the original problems have not been solved. GM and other car makers are responding to this great PR program sponsored by this farm lobby.... a need to find a market for their corn crop.

The scientific community saved the soy bean business, by using that little bean many products for the public were developed and they are still finding more uses.

There you have it. The big deal over ethanol is a product of a lobbying effort. The gain is lost in it's manufacture and until such time as they fine a way to produce the gasoline substitute,

I'm afraid the gas buying public will start paying extra for a farce. What else is new... some have been buying the Bushco sacks of s--- for seven years. Man are we gullible!!!

Saturday February 9, 2008, 7:57 am
How unfortunate that this is only now being shared. Anyone with the ability to think, knew it years ago.

Saturday February 9, 2008, 8:06 am
Noted. Great discussion here. Did anyone else see the C2NN news about powering autos with chocolate? Get out! Thank you, Cate.

Saturday February 9, 2008, 8:20 am
Powering cars with chocolate?!
Now, that's just wrong!
Thanks for a fascinating story, Cate.
The way I see it, better we find this out
now than decades down the line when biofuels
are in wide use.
Unless this study was funded by Big Oil?
Hmmmmmm......
noted.

Saturday February 9, 2008, 8:54 am
*I can see me siphoning tanks now... haha!
I am intrigued by the cars ran by air compression
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/air-car1.htm
http://www.electrifyingtimes.com/guynegre.html
What disturbs me here is that links go no where or to commercial sites...local routing.
I agree with Mary...and Tim... but I believe it was brought up in Who Killed the Electric Car...and there are so many countries that have had to do massive planting to avoid flooding as well. I am reading a book that talks about the time it takes to make Top Soil as well, and as we strip, and mono crop,,we could be starving many in a short time... and are depleting nutritional value of our food in the mean time.
One site I have not checked out yet... evolutionmotion.com to convert existing vehicles to water hybrids.

Saturday February 9, 2008, 9:04 am
Yes it Is biofuels the problem....anything that Burns is the problem. Putting Co2 into the air is the problem, and burning biofuels....THINK! OIL IS A BIOFUEL! is a problem! OIL is from decayed matter! It's millions of years old! But it is a biofuel! It emits Co2 just like burning Corn Oil, or Fish Oil....Oil is OIL!!!!! Burning Wood emits Co2...burning Anything emits Co2. We have to use Solar or Wind, or something that burns 100% without Any emissions.

I wish this site allowed italics....sorry for the caps!

Saturday February 9, 2008, 9:47 am
Thanks Cate I found that very interesting.

Saturday February 9, 2008, 10:05 am
I can sum this up in a few words .Bush and his Harkin Energy snuck down to South America and as all the deals he makes ;he does them with his pen and no congressional backing. i listened to ex prez fox of Mexico say he had cut deals with him On Nafta and the Trans Texas Corridor at his Ranch here in Texas. Its the same where ever you go they dont care about what will happen to the ecosystem in the long run they want $$$$ And this is just another of the Bush Hoods and Thugs way to make some money while making a problem bigger! Chris

Saturday February 9, 2008, 10:32 am
All of you are so right. The government shut down the guy who came up with the electric cars years ago in favor of oil countries. At the time I did not understand all the connections, but I do now.

We/man has stripped this land an so many others already for housing, football field, airplane runways and anything & everything else you can think of.....Now this idea of stripping even more land to plant corn and whatever as a fuel source is just plain crazy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We need the damned trees.............Millions & billions of them and get the world population down by a few billion and purhaps we might surviva all the destruction we've caused.....................

You know the animals didn't/have not destroyed this world................WE HAVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It may take Bush & all his pals a bit longer but rest assured he will die like all the rest of us because of what he has done to the environment!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PLANT LIFE.....PLANT TREES.....FOR YOUR LIFE...............

Saturday February 9, 2008, 11:50 am
Just a thought.....they (big oil) have made a synthetic oil, it is used in a lot of engines by a lot of people, I use it. It out performs natural oil. less wear and tear on engines, extends the life of the engine, less sludge etc....why then can they not make a SYNTHETIC GASOLINE??????? Oh wait...I get it....MONEY. Nevermind....

Hydrogen is the way to go. Or electric. Zero emissions.

Saturday February 9, 2008, 1:33 pm
noted and thanks Cate

Saturday February 9, 2008, 1:37 pm
Noted, Thank you Cate. Hugs Linnie

Saturday February 9, 2008, 3:20 pm
I am very happy that "they" decided to take these studies and have them, "published in the prestigious journal Science", finally. However, like Mary commented...., many knew this years ago. Greed of the beast that owns this nation and the world keeps stalling the good efforts of mankind to better its environment, and it is very frustrating and anguishing.
Patrick, thank you for your excellent review of this process of the farm lobbying, although I don't look at the broad spectrum of most innocent people, guillible, since these lobbyists and other slickers are very hard to keep up with in all causes. Your information gave me much insight, since I get many contacts from the Farm Industry on their plight.

Tsandi..., good rule of thumb to follow is what you gave in your comment. I always stay on that main focus, since many factors are contributing to the Greenhouse effect. I still don't know why they refer to it as a "threat"....lol. If you are going to burn something...., it must burn 100% without emmissions, period. No debate. Thank you Cate, Noted.

Saturday February 9, 2008, 3:32 pm
Hmmmm.....a car that runs on steam was invented many years ago. Saw it on line when my husband had
visited a site to view cars owned by Jay Leno. I could understand this working, but chocolate???? That
seems a crazy waste of chocolate. As a chocolate lover I would not like this as it could cause massive
car chasing by humans. Oh, I don't wan't to think of what I would look like running down the street just
trying to get a taste of the chocolate. Of course if a car leaked in the parking lot we could all meet for a
chocolate party. (three second rule might apply). Sorry, just couldn't help from being a little silly. :) :) :)

Saturday February 9, 2008, 4:02 pm
We have the technology to run engines very efficiently with out gas, maybe when a Hurricane hits the whitehouse the elite might let it out to protect themselves, because they sure don't care about us common folks! We all better wake up soon or we will be dead shortly. Thx Cate!

Saturday February 9, 2008, 4:54 pm
Noted; thanks--

Saturday February 9, 2008, 5:13 pm
Biofuels can work - its just a question on how to produce them. The idea is to use the "waste" part of the plant instead of the "food" part to produce the ethanol from. Traditionally alcohol is made from sugar or starch, but with the help of enzymes it can also be made from cellulose, such that when the process is fully devloped you can grow your wheat, harvest it, use the grain for food and use the straw for fuel.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cellulosic_ethanol

You can also burn biomass at the powerplant as a substitute for fossil fuels.

You can also get wood to emit a gas that can be used to fuel a car by simply heating it (widely used to fuel automobiles and other internal combustion engines in Western Europe during WW II). http://www.gengas.nu/byggbes/index.shtml

Compressed air, hydrogen, batteries will not really solve the problem since none of them are energy SOURCES but just energy stores - you have to generate some power elsewhere to "fill them up" - most likely by "burning" coal or uranium.

The technology to produce any product made from oil today from coal instead was invented about 80 years ago and was used on a large scale in Germany durring world war II and in Soudt Africa during the boycot.
And no it hasn't been supressed by big oil, the new world order or the tooth fairy - its a well known (to people whio know biochemistry) biochemical process.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic_crude

If anybody could provide a source on how a water-hybrid car is REALLY supposed to work that would be interesting. Simple claims that ot does work by splitting water into hydrogen and oxygen and burning that and that I could get it by just handing over a few $$$ are not interesting. I will regard this as a scam unless I can get an explanation for exactly where my understanding of basic physics is flawed (not likely but to err is human).

Saturday February 9, 2008, 6:37 pm
Of course they failed to mention algae-based biofuel. That doesn't require any harvesting at all- just vats- kind of like watertowers...

Saturday February 9, 2008, 11:30 pm
Noted and Thanks Cate. Very interesting.

Sunday February 10, 2008, 3:43 am
Noted!

Sunday February 10, 2008, 6:06 pm
I guess there was enough of us to stop and think that biofuels were just replacing one bad idea for another bad idea.

Monday February 11, 2008, 4:42 am
I don't know if any of your subscribe to C-net.com, but you might consider it just for the forums.

I have belonged for some time now, and there has been an ongoing discussion concerning this very issue. I have all along felt that hydrogen was the answer to our oil problems, but after reading and discussing the issue with those much more intelligent than I, it has left a void in the grey matter.

Check it out at www.cnet.com/forums (I think that is the correct addy. If not, just Google C-Net.com)

Patrick

Monday February 11, 2008, 10:24 pm
Noted and thanks Cate for the interesting story. It seems as if we are in a catch 22 here. We most certainly need the trees and plants so where do we go from here? We could all have our cars converted to where they can run on used french fry grease. It seems to work for Willie Nelson. I thought that was interesting when I heard that and I think his wife came up with it first.