Wednesday October 28, 2009, 1:39 pm

So now, if a veteran opposes the war, in a fashion commonly used in protest . . . it's a crime?

(I guess risking your life by serving your country, then opposing it -- with obvious knowledge, doesn't count any more.)

[Oops . . . I forgot, that makes you even more dangerous than a civilian! My bad!]

Wednesday October 28, 2009, 1:58 pm

They make Laws to Criminalize anything that they can get away with to allow for themselves, the Government to earn money off of it.

Wednesday October 28, 2009, 2:14 pm
Oh, the corpse may manage to drag on a few more decades out of inertia, but this is how you know the United States is already effectively over.

Wednesday October 28, 2009, 2:43 pm

So true, David.

But, until the populace becomes aware of the sophisticated manipulation by well-placed "spokespersons," (if they even care to, or can, arise from their convenient comas), this will pass as unnoticed as all the other rapes of their rights.

Wednesday October 28, 2009, 2:47 pm
This is singularly disturbing. I have a son who is a disabled veteran, He is having trouble with the VA, as most disabled veterans do today. Now, they are going to prosecute veterans for the freedom of speech they defended with such valor. There is no gratitude from the very people who urged us to support the troops. What is this country coming to?

Wednesday October 28, 2009, 2:56 pm

My dear friend, what we need to be vigilant about is all enemies -- foreign and domestic -- who would perceive our children as "collateral damage."

They need not be. We have no reason to be there. We are not wanted there. Their lives were expended for naught.

We need to STAND UP and say "I DID NOT RAISE A CHILD TO KILL SOMEONE ELSE'S CHILD!"

Tell your children to stand down. Repair our damaged country. Oust those who speak on behalf of warmongers.

We did not have babies just to have them be used as weapons to kill others' children.

Wednesday October 28, 2009, 2:56 pm
How ridiculous! Who would know better about the atrocities than someone who has been there and been through it!

Wednesday October 28, 2009, 2:59 pm
well we knew the country didn't give a shit about the vets, they lay up in some God awful hospitals, they end up on the street because they have no job when they get back home- so much for get your training here while you see the world. I am actually surprised that they are even allowing any to come home at all, with all the truths they have to tell us about what is really going on over there.
yeaaaaaaaaaaah this is surely a great CHANGE for the better now isn't it?
if I weren't choking on anger I would laff.
ty Just

Wednesday October 28, 2009, 3:03 pm
and my husbands comment is:
No one has the right to express their displeasure as the veterans have, if they want to do it hanging the flag in distress, they have the right, they fought for it. what war did she serve in, what gives her the right to take away the rights of the vets.
yeah, he's a vet, pretty p.o.'d, I didn't add all the words he actually used, you all have good enough imaginations :)

Wednesday October 28, 2009, 3:11 pm

Sheila, I lived for many years a few blocks from the Veterans Administration in Los Angeles. It is an upper middle class neighborhood.

HOWEVER, many people do not realize what happens to those vets (at that time, from Vietnam) once they are "discharged" from duty. There are few services to re-acclimate them to civilian life -- and their "nightmares" from living for years in risk of losing their own are unattended to.

Many of them, suffering from PTSD -- which the VA has been advised to decline -- mentally wounded, left to file countless claims, asking for information hard to provide (such as, "who was your commanding officer, and who can witness your claim") but, otherwise, DISCARDED!

I know this, as a fact, because I went through the ordeal trying to make a claim for my ex-husband, who was a 1st Air Cav vet of Vietnam.)

Wednesday October 28, 2009, 3:11 pm
For every full casket draped in the flag that returns home, for every new veteran who returns home with injury, illness from combat, etc. THERE IS A NEW KID SIGNING UP TO TAKE THEIR PLACE. So get to the kids before they sign on that line, and eventually the VA will be out of business and your kids will be alive. Put an end by standing tall in front of Recruitment Centers, show how they can expect to be treated.

Wednesday October 28, 2009, 3:15 pm
I think that the vets have a right to protest but I want to state that this was not about the war.They were protesting the fact that property that was supposed to be for the vets were given to someone to be used as a park.I

Wednesday October 28, 2009, 3:16 pm

At the Risk of many's displeasure...

Our Flags are Symbolic, but they are quickly becoming False Gods.

Humankind is supposed to be what matters, not how a Vet displays their Flag.

Wednesday October 28, 2009, 3:24 pm

Excellent point, Electra.

There is a difference between Nationalism (a commonly used point for fascism, which cherishes pride of ownership of a country) . . . and Patriotism (a love of its people and adherence to the fundamental laws established to secure those freedoms for the people who fought to have them).

Wednesday October 28, 2009, 3:47 pm
This is an interesting discussion with many interesting comments... i think the core issue here is that our civil liberties are being stripped away slowly... and the flag being hung upside down as a distress signal has been being done for many, many years... it started well before viet nam... i thoroughly enjoyed reading everyones comments... =)

Wednesday October 28, 2009, 4:29 pm
So what McCaslin is saying is disrepect for the American flag, which is a piece of material, a symbol designating which country it's flown in cannot be hung upside down.However returning soldiers can housed in building with black mold,leaking water sysyems, and paint peeling off the wall then basically hung UPSIDE down themselves and left to dry as they struggle for months to get the health care and assistnace they require.My disabled vet son ,our sons and daughters serving deserve the respect not a piece of material that was not harmed with this visual protest. McCaslin may think she is following the letter of the law, and I respectfully could tell her where alot of homeless vets would like to see her put the flag.

Wednesday October 28, 2009, 4:33 pm

Thank you, Laurie . . . for articulating the difference between the strict definition of a law, and the human-felt understanding of its meaning.

Kudos!

Wednesday October 28, 2009, 4:36 pm

I will NEVER stand behind any person who questions the right of a returning veteran -- who's been subjected to government-inspired insanity -- to vocalize his/her opinion!

Wednesday October 28, 2009, 4:57 pm
thank you my friend

Wednesday October 28, 2009, 6:02 pm
Shiela G, your husband is right on.......This vet fought for the flag and it's his. The Department of Justice is guilty of abuse of power!

Wednesday October 28, 2009, 6:54 pm
All comments are right on target. I submit to this woman Sharon McCaslin, prosecuting attorney for the United States Department of Justice, that she go to the nearest Army or Marine Recruiting Office and sign up for an enlistment of no shorter than six years, go to basics, and promptly be sent to the War Zone. Coming back home...as a Veteran (unscathed) then maybe she can have a say so in seeing a Flag in Distress, and understand the anger over VA Land being made a park. As in accordance with the Flag Code, the Distressed Flag is presented a a 'signal of distress in instances of extreme danger to life or PROPERTY'. ANY Veteran knows that...and respects and salutes the flag with that understanding. She's a very poor representation of caring for our Veterans, and respecting them. She needs to be "DISSSS-MISSED" !!!! TY, Carole for this one.

Wednesday October 28, 2009, 7:02 pm

Thank you, my dear friend, Pat!

I also remind the readers that this post comes from veteranstoday.com -- an organization I deeply respect that represents and promotes concerns of those who have served this country; and because of that, I value their opinions.

Wednesday October 28, 2009, 7:07 pm
Thank you all, for your comments. TY, Carole (Salute!!)

Wednesday October 28, 2009, 7:20 pm
but it is about the war, Esther, it will always be about the war, because this is where they came from and isnt the hanging of the flag in distress next to a POW/MIA very symbolic? again, about the war, showing their distress over their fellow soldiers who have not come home and may never have that opportunity.
Carole ty for sharing your pain, so many many like him, my husband sees so many on the streets of D.C. begging for food, one tiny older man with I believe he said a 3 stripes captains coat was pushing a friggin cart! talk about disrespect, does McCaslin know about these soldiers? is she completely ignorant? my husband hands out half his lunch so often because they are hungry, he sees so many in uniforms torn and dirty, and they have nothing to eat. he said last week a young man in his maybe 40's approached him with "man I don't want any money, I am just really hungry"
hungry. doesn't that just make you scream and cry? our soldiers come home and starve.
I wonder if McCaslin has ever gone without a meal for days on end.

Wednesday October 28, 2009, 8:49 pm
This is so very ridiculous,who does this woman think she is she does not know anything about vet's rights Do you think for a moment she would stop and thank her lucky stars that she had our boy's and I do mean boy's over fighting for us.Seeing their best friend killed beside him.Seeing the most awful sights and learning you can not even trust a small child. It makes one cry,I have so many stories. I have seen them cry Yes,I have been to the wall. over and over. My father would not speak of WWII or Korea. We have now come to disrespect our Vets.What has happened???? Thanks,Just Carole.

Wednesday October 28, 2009, 11:52 pm
This is the natural extension of that slippery slope many of us warned about when congress made it illegal to burn the flag.

Thursday October 29, 2009, 12:39 am

Laws are supposed to be designed to protect people.

Though the flag has been flown in many a War, it has not yet fought in one.
Our Vets did! They have Earned Respect, not contempt.

Thursday October 29, 2009, 3:27 am
All countries have become Police States, and I fear that we have been living in apathy for too long, to let this happen.

I just hope that this will deter others from joining the army and the killing.

Thursday October 29, 2009, 6:35 am
Sheila, a veteran can be someone who served during World War II, Korea, etc. This was not about the war. These veterans did not state whether they were for or against the war in Afghanistan, etc. They had another reason why they were protesting. I personally think that everyone in America whether they are veterans or were not veterans have the right to peacefully protest. If they even want to burn the flag in protest as long as they bought the flag themselves and make sure they will not start a fire that can harm someone else or someone's property, I have no problem with that even if I don't agree with them. I like what the flag represents but the flag is just a piece of cloth and it does no one any harm.

Thursday October 29, 2009, 6:38 am
Yes Veters are flesh the flag is just but cloth and can be replaced a life cannot...

Big Gorilly Hugs

Thursday October 29, 2009, 6:38 am
Okay so Im still asleep VETERNS...thats what I menat..gezzzzzzzz

Thursday October 29, 2009, 6:39 am
Sending a Green Star is a simple way to say "Thank you"
You cannot currently send a star to Just because you have done so within the last week.

Thursday October 29, 2009, 9:25 am
Freedom of speech is a demorcratic right... if they take away the Vets rights... then they should declare war on the rogues whe are so intent on decalring an internal war...

Thursday October 29, 2009, 10:56 am
"An Act of War

These are dangerous times for America’s Veterans to stand up for truth and justice, particularly when the Department of Justice has declared war upon us.

It’s time to awaken the sleeping giant of 25 million American Veterans and stand up to defend our sacred land from our government. "

just a little excerpt I appreciated, they will have many more civilians on their side in this battle.

Thursday October 29, 2009, 11:38 am
It is a desecration, that's the intent isn't it? But since when did any group lose the right to free speech? As long as it is done on their property, is there actually a law against that? If so, it isn't a law that fits in the constitution. The fact that it is veterans makes it even more absurd.

Thursday October 29, 2009, 12:22 pm
Any person that is willing to put their life on the line to defend our country has the right to say or do anything so long as it does not harm another. When the young people that have been sent to fight and possibly die in the trumped up wars since WWII and have spoken out they have been severely punished - for speaking their opinion as granted in the constitution they fought to defend. Then there is the problem of how these VETS are treated once they return home. But that would have me writing a very long rant. Keep in mind that 250,000 of these veterans sleep on the streets and beg for food, and NOT because they are bums, but because we have few dollars allocated to aid those in need for physical or mental health, and few know how to obtain what little is offered. What of the many lives ruined for the single sake of corporate/government greed, make no mistake today's soldiers are put in harm's way not to protect us, but rather to enhance the coffers of the 200,000 companies making a financial "killing" from these middle-eastern wars. The so-called support for the army, PLEASE - American armies do not need expensive support to facilitate the job they are sent to do for us, our armies have always been able and willing to supply their own support system, but then the war profiteers get cheated.

Thursday October 29, 2009, 12:48 pm
 
The outrage of veterans has been long smoldering, as a direct result of broken government promises that began with their recruitment, continued through their service to country -- at the known risk of death -- and followed them even after their service ended, with long drawn-out mistreatment, denial of health care and compensation . . . and the list goes on.
 
(Very similar to the same treatment received by Native Americans.)  I submit that this latest affront, the unlawful confiscation of land designated for use for disabled veterans, is only one of several listed in the article.
 
I can completely empathize with these soldiers, who faithfully pledged to serve their country, but are now faced with persecution from those same government representatives, who are bowing to their only real god, "Greed!"
 
Do you not think they have had second thoughts about how much their dedication to this country was valued and can see why the flag should be displayed as an indication of distress?  Another poster pointed out that the flag was presented next to a POW/MIA flag.  If that does not indicate their disgust with the lack of respect for those who gave their lives, I don't know what could.
 
In today's Veteran's Today newsletter, is another gut-wrenching article:

Battle at the VA Hospital
The Saga of Terry SolesA Widow 'SPEAKS OUT'
One more -- of too many -- detailing the disrespect our service people receive (even til death) once their "usefulness" has ended.
 
 

Thursday October 29, 2009, 2:37 pm
I can't do my usual of 'posting a link' as the site is not responding.
Years back I checked into a bbForum frequented by Sheila Samples and a few other people. One solitary post in one file couldn't be reposted as it was copyright protected. It outlined how bureaucratic systems had been set up to deny veterans claims : with legislation revamped in 1935. Things like a multiplicity of departments so people could be shuffled from one to another. Claims to be made without legal counsel....and the staff financially encouraged to deny claims. Volumes of paperwork to frustrate claims : needlessly complex.
Perhaps the most poignant online contact I found for pointing out the abuse of veterans was 'Homeless Veteran.' That title pretty well says it all. Broken Soldier is another eloquent testifier to systemic abuse.

Thursday October 29, 2009, 3:09 pm

Sharon McClasin, prosecuting attorney for the United States Department of Justice, declared her act of warring defiance even when Veterans are in full compliance with the VA’s approval and the U.S Flag Code, and while lawfully protesting against the U.S. Government for abusing and misusing their sacred and sovereign land for the benefit of commercial and non-Veteran special interest groups, which is a flagrant violation of the Congressional Act of 1887 and the Land Grant Deed of 1888.

VETERANS ARE IN FULL COMPLIANCE WITH VA APPROVAL AND THE U.S. FLAG CODE.

So why I ask is there a problem? The problem my friends is our Government has been taken over by the corupt Theives and they intend to have all of us either in prison, dead, brainwashed, hoodwinked, defeated emotionally so we all will be compliant to ANYTHING they say. They feel it no longer matters what the laws are, what our Constitution states, it is their rules now. We are being taken over....one step at a time.

The billion-dollar parcel of Veterans’ land behind these locked gates was recently given away rent-free by the U.S. Government to a wealthy homeowner group for a public community park. Now that that’s desecration and a crime in the most disgraceful sense!

So our Veterans just have the land ripped away from them....given to a WEATHLY homeowner group...and we the American people and the VETERANS are just suppose to crawl under our rocks like, oh, that is ok that you STOLE some more from the masses.

The situation in this Country gets worse day by day.....spend a day or two on Care2 and read the stories and watch the videos on these stories. It is a real eye opener if you have not got your eyes open yet.

Thursday October 29, 2009, 3:31 pm

Thank you very much, Sheryl!

Having lived in that area (about 10 blocks from the V.A., at Federal and Wilshire in West L.A.), I can tell you that the land there is now highly valuable, which it may not have been at the time it was granted. Only about 1/2 mile north of that is the Veterans Cemetery -- a sobering sight each time I passed it, which was almost daily.

It's apparent that the once-magnanimous gesture of "gifting" this land, originally in respect to this country's fallen, has now been "reconsidered," due, as usual, to the enticement of money.

Our "leaders" are a shameless lot!

Thursday October 29, 2009, 5:31 pm
Actually no surprise. The congress, senate, and executive branch as well as state senates and municiplay mayors all across America are not rpresentative of veterans in general. The older members are for the most part former hippiesand we all know how they felt about the military and veterans specifically.

To this group, including the state attorneys, "veterans are to be run out of town". The old adage applies: "veterans are like condoms, once used throw away".

So what can be done? Nothing actually as homeless vets don't vote and even if they did the ballot boxes are fixed in favor of the candidates who take donations from the developers, insurance co. private prisons, etc.

Let's face it, even the anoited, appointed, and elected judges are in the pockets of the busuness folks and veterans, especially disabled veterans scare them, cost them time.

In another time in early America the veterans would rise up and take out these (fake guards) (business attorneys) bastards as it is always better to fight and die swiftly than stand by and die a 1000 slow deaths.

It was attorneys who approved the Patriot Act so that could prevent neterans from making and taking a stand on anything they, the congress, senate, state senate, local mayors, and local and state police deem as being against THEM. All in the name of the American flag which we, combat veteran actually fought for in this life.

America ceased being free and a democracy when the US supreme Court (lawyers) stopped the recount in Florida.

Now it appears we have a bush II in the office because the chaqnge I've seen is that bush was white and this guy is black. That's the change that has taken place. At least bush helped out veterans, this new guy talks the talk but doen't walk the walk. But then again, he is a lawyer as well and he too will send all veterans to financial and social hell.

This article is only the beginning of what will happen to every American veteran because this is no longer America (as we knew it). It's a place on the map where there are more prisoners then in any other country, more homeless veterans then any other country.

America is just a place on the map that many people are avoiding.

Thursday October 29, 2009, 5:51 pm
I was looking for this video to add when I wrote the last comment. I just found it and I suggest everyone to view it. Goes along very well to this thread.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article23810.htm

Saturday October 31, 2009, 6:29 am
Thank you for this article!!!
Yes, our civil liberties are being dismantled slowly but surely, and many of us are unaware. Many of us postWWII babies know very well how badly the Vietnam Vets were treated in the 70s and thereafter; we know the shame continues. I find the situation intolerably ironic...that so many who defend their government's abuses in sending good Americans to war and fly the Flag with "support our troops" across it on their cars at the same time do nothing at all to support the veterans who need physical and mental care at all levels. The VA needs a thorough colonoscopy. I know this article is about the misuse of VA lands and misguided USDOJ thugs, but veterans' issues are much broader. This problem of using and then degrading veterans isn't along political party lines...this is a national disgrace. And, no, the previous administration did not help veterans at all. That record is very clear. Thank you for these great posts as well.

Monday November 2, 2009, 1:27 pm
Police are now using military weapons on protestors, something that was illegal 10 years ago.
Illegal wiretapping of Civil Rights groups,
Homeland Security harrassing protestors, the Patriot Act,...
All done under a Republican AND a Democrat Administration.
Have we reached our breaking point yet America?