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Commit Yourself To The Truth -- Cutting Through the Confusion About Israel/Palestine


World  (tags: truth, israel, palestine, 'HUMANRIGHTS!' )

Just
- 1480 days ago - informationclearinghouse.info
"I was a member of a group that put up a billboard criticizing Israel's lethal use of force during Operation Cast Lead. A college student wrote to us to tell us that he disagreed with our assessment of Israel's behavior. He asked that we remove..."



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Comments

Just Carole (341)
Tuesday June 22, 2010, 2:09 pm

Richard Forer is a former member of AIPAC. His identical twin brother is a prominent member of an Ultra-Orthodox sect of Judaism. His younger brother is an attorney and President of one of the largest Reform synagogues on the East coast. Forer is a practitioner of the Meir Schneider Self-Healing Method, a unique system of healing developed by an Israeli. His book, Breakthrough: Transforming Fear into Compassion Ė A New Perspective on the Israel-Palestine Conflict will be available in the Fall. He can be reached at rich_forer@yahoo.com.
 

chris b. (2484)
Tuesday June 22, 2010, 2:44 pm
Noted
 

Past Member (0)
Tuesday June 22, 2010, 2:45 pm
Carole,

A Tip of the hat to you! This is an important and incredible document. I just finished reading this and I'm speechless! To re-quote some of the points doesn't accomplish anything. I think everyone who is really after peace and wants peace, should make this Mandatory Reading!

The funny thing though is I often try to quote Israeli sources and stay away from Arab sources - except Aljazeera. I still get attacked as an anti-Semite. Go figure!

ATW
 

Pat B. (352)
Tuesday June 22, 2010, 2:50 pm
TY, Carole for this.
 

Just Carole (341)
Tuesday June 22, 2010, 2:53 pm

I try to pick articles that aren't blatantly slanted -- I see no point in speaking of peace, and yet, demonizing either party. This author has been instrumental on both sides, has done a great deal of research (and appropriately provided his reference); and in my opinion, is credible.
 

Past Member (0)
Tuesday June 22, 2010, 2:55 pm
Excellent article! Thank you Carole.
 

Past Member (0)
Tuesday June 22, 2010, 3:05 pm
totally agree!
 

Nancy M. (199)
Tuesday June 22, 2010, 4:20 pm
Thanks Just Carole.
 

Yvonne White (231)
Tuesday June 22, 2010, 5:01 pm
"Peace is only possible when we care for people on both sides equally." Amen!:) Thanks Just *C*!
 

. (0)
Tuesday June 22, 2010, 5:32 pm
impressive quality writing. bookmarked. *thanks*
 

Marta Away (55)
Tuesday June 22, 2010, 6:01 pm
Noted. Thanks, Just.
 

Aletta Kraan (146)
Tuesday June 22, 2010, 7:04 pm
Noted , interesting !!
 

Glenn Byrnes (194)
Tuesday June 22, 2010, 7:07 pm
Thank you so much for posting this article.
 

(0)
Tuesday June 22, 2010, 7:11 pm
Carole, I can't believe you posted this. What a find. This is exactly how I came to my conclusions on Israel reading the identical authors he cites. Thanks!
 

Just Carole (341)
Tuesday June 22, 2010, 7:18 pm

I was very impressed with it myself after I read it; and felt I HAD to share it!

Glad you appreciated it. Like others here, I have bookmarked it for future reference.
 

Karen S. (106)
Tuesday June 22, 2010, 7:32 pm
Now here is a writer with integrity who knows just how to put a human face on the ugly side of conflict. Thanks for posting Carole.
 

Cal Mendelsohn (968)
Tuesday June 22, 2010, 7:39 pm
Well, Carole, we can argue till the cows come home as to who is responsible for the Mideast conflict. I read excerpts of the article you published.,What it shares with less reasonable tracts is its' reliance on quotes from Israel's military leaders, whose bellicose intents are shared with numerous Arab sources at the time:

May 16th 1967

"The existence of Israel has continued too long. We welcome the Israeli aggression. We welcome the battle we have long awaited. The peak hour has come. The battle has come in which we shall destroy Israel." - Cairo Radio (Egyptian state radio) broadcast

May 20th 1967

"Our forces are now entirely ready not only to repulse any aggression, but to initiate the act ourselves, and to explode the Zionist presence in the Arab homeland of Palestine. The Syrian army, with its finger on the trigger, is united. I believe that the time has come to begin a battle of annihilation." - Syrian Defence Minister Hafez Assad

May 25th 1967

"The Arab people is firmly resolved to wipe Israel off the map and to restore the honour of the Arabs of Palestine" - Cairo Radio (Egyptian state radio) broadcast Ministry of Foreign Affairs website, The Six Day War

Hardly reassurances and signs of peace, that the author conveniently ignores.

The fact is that suffering on both sides has been extreme and the spin machines of both sides are constantly on overdrive. Let's look to solutions, not worry about casting blame so much. that's what I hoped the article would do, but it ventured nowhere near that more constructive positive end.

 

Just Carole (341)
Tuesday June 22, 2010, 7:48 pm

What I felt the author's intent was to show BOTH sides . . . and how much of this misery is being perpetuated by this continual blaming, instead of realizing that this vicious circle of cause-reaction-cause-reaction (combined with demonization of either side) is going nowhere.

There will NEVER be a peaceful solution as long as it's necessary for there to be a winner/loser, demon/victim.

He is appealing to people to see the total picture. (At least, that's how I read it.)
 

Teleia P. (0)
Tuesday June 22, 2010, 7:53 pm
This is really interesting because nobody here in the US ever seems to want to talk about this. Older folks seem to buy into the "what Palestine?" doctrine, when the reality as I could find it was that they had always lived there and Israel just wanted their land. I appreciate this article also because peace can never be achieved until both parties are ready. Israel is clearly not ready and is the real obstruction.
 

Just Carole (341)
Tuesday June 22, 2010, 8:04 pm

Sometimes, the truth is ugly. But, as the author advises, in order to form rational conclusions, it must be faced:

"Please do not fall into the trap that so many who remain unconscious of their participation in the suffering of others have fallen into. Please do not allow bigotry to influence you as it has influenced them. I urge you to avoid losing your humanity. Commit yourself to the truth. It is the only path that will free you of your own suffering and free others less fortunate than you of the suffering imposed on them by others."
 

Steve Howard (45)
Tuesday June 22, 2010, 8:16 pm
Wake people up on this, otherwise it will just continue.

The real problem is that humans for the most part are not capable of allowing themselves to think.......and that means they don't care because they force themselves to stay uninformed and therefore can excuse themselves from caring about ANYTHING.

We as a species are followers, willing to believe anything that is said loud enough and often enough. And that is pitiful and shameful.

Please everyone, do what you can to wake up people not only to this and whatever things you feel people need to wake up about, but to wake up their minds and hearts because once that happens, we won't have wars, we won't have ANY of the problems we face. We have to get people to go at least a little bit towards our potential and the problems will melt away since people will work on the problems and avoid new problems automatically in the same way many of us automatically try to help.

News contacts:

http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=111

Send a FREE fax:

http://faxzero.com/

White House:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact

Congress:

http://contactingthecongress.org/



Peace.
 

(0)
Tuesday June 22, 2010, 8:17 pm
Cal, I agree with Carol. I could go and quote Israeli quotes of the same nature. It doesn't solve anything. I believe that his point is that rather than immediately believe what you hear, or from the Jewish perspective, what you have been told your whole life, look at the historical record and then decide. You look at someone like Norman Finkelstein who is considered quite controversial, yet his research is impeccable and what is controversial is that his detractors don't want to hear what he has to say. They never can refute what he says, because it is the historical record. You have Israeli's premiere historians who support his accounting of the facts because they are the sources for much of his work. Instead, attacks become personal because the facts cannot be denied.

You look at Dershowitz's questionable research, which he refers to as his scholarship in"A Case For Israel" is basically a work of plagiarism based on a book which has no real academic credibility.
 

Bob Algeron (47)
Tuesday June 22, 2010, 8:42 pm
Margaret, if Finkelstein's research was unbiased and impeccable, he would not be praised that high by Palestinian media campaigners. Quite the opposite, his work ethic is controversial and many results of his work were refuted.

You cannot compare him to a real legal expert Dershowitz, please be serious.

 

(0)
Tuesday June 22, 2010, 8:51 pm
Bob A. No one is comparing him to a legal expert. The legal opinion is not complicated, it is right there in black and white, International Court of Justice, July 9, 2009.(http://www.icj-cij.org/docket/index.php?pr=71&code=mwp&p1=3&p2=4&p3=6&case=131&k=5a) which re-affirms what the annual UN resolutions to the Question of Palestine state.

Have you every read anything he has written. If you have and bothered to check out every single historical claim, it is all in the historical record and actually in the works of Israeli leaders and their own historians. The material does not come from Arab or Palestinian sources, it comes directly from the mouths of Israelis.

It is praised, because it is the true assessment of the historical record. What is there to debate, especially when it is cited by Israelis. Have you ever spoken or corresponded with Alan Dershowitz? Alan Dershowitz's answer to anything, even if it has nothing to do with Israel and Palestine, but criticism of his work leads to cries of bigotry and antisemitism. If you are a Jew, you get called a self hating Jew. The legal issue has already been decided, there is nothing left to dispute. Highest court in the world has decided, where do you want to take it next, God?
 

Just Carole (341)
Tuesday June 22, 2010, 8:51 pm

"And even though he is particularly controversial, Norman Finkelstein, despite his blunt critique of Israelís defenders, is included because of his genius and meticulous research. You can watch him on YouTube. I researched a great deal of the claims he makes by reviewing his sources. In every case he checks out perfectly. I saw no distortion, obfuscation or deceit. Additionally, one cannot ignore the sources he cites. Truthfully, if one wants to criticize Israel, deceit is unnecessary. The words and confessions of Israeli leaders are more than enough."
 

(0)
Tuesday June 22, 2010, 9:04 pm
It is true Carol. I read his books, checked his sourcing, checked the historical record and it all checks out. Also on Dershowitz, much of what he writes and states is manipulated, distorted drek. Also, if you watch him speak, he actually gets the facts wrong or makes them up as he goes along. To not only base a book on a discredited piece of garbage, Joan Peter's "From Time Memorial", but also essentially plagiarized it, shows how credible he is. He is also a distasteful, little man.
 

catherine s. (3)
Tuesday June 22, 2010, 9:14 pm
done
 

(0)
Tuesday June 22, 2010, 9:20 pm
"You cannot compare him to a real legal expert Dershowitz, please be serious. "

He domain in law is constitutional law, and since Israel doesn't have one, I guess he isn't too useful.
 

Bob Algeron (47)
Tuesday June 22, 2010, 9:23 pm
Wikipedia:

Criticism has been leveled against Finkelstein from several angles. The first sources are responses from those whose work Finkelstein has discussed. Daniel Goldhagen, whose book Hitler's Willing Executioners Finkelstein criticized, claimed his scholarship has "everything to do with his burning political agenda."[53] Peter Novick, Professor of History at the University of Chicago and a noted Holocaust historian whose work Finkelstein says inspired "The Holocaust Industry," has also strongly criticised the latter's work, describing it as "trash." Similarly, Alan Dershowitz, whose book The Case for Israel and Finkelstein's response Beyond Chutzpah sparked an ongoing feud between the two, has claimed Finkelstein's complicity in a conspiracy against pro-Israel scholars: "The mode of attack is consistent. Chomsky selects the target and directs Finkelstein to probe the writings in minute detail and conclude that the writer didn't actually write the work, that it is plagiarized, that it is a hoax and a fraud," arguing that Finkelstein has leveled charges against many academics, calling at least 10 "distinguished Jews 'hucksters', 'hoaxters' (sic), 'thieves,' 'extortionists', and worse."[35]
Israeli historian[54] Omer Bartov, writing for The New York Times Book Review, judged The Holocaust Industry to be marred by the same errors he denounces in those who exploit the Holocaust for profit or politics:
'It is filled with precisely the kind of shrill hyperbole that Finkelstein rightly deplores in much of the current media hype over the Holocaust; it is brimming with the same indifference to historical facts, inner contradictions, strident politics and dubious contextualizations; and it oozes with the same smug sense of moral and intellectual superiority... Like any conspiracy theory, it contains several grains of truth; and like any such theory, it is both irrational and insidious.'[55]

 

Connor Hocking (29)
Tuesday June 22, 2010, 9:33 pm
i love the way the author kept talking about the flaws of the "Us versus them" situation and how failing to have compassion will make peace impossible. so true! That's why we need to have some sort of compassion for all beings, because we must remember that we all want the same basic thing: some sort of happiness, and we all try to achieve this in different ways. The giving, selfless way is almost always the most successful as ironic as it may sound at first.
 

Just Carole (341)
Tuesday June 22, 2010, 9:38 pm

@ Bob:

 
Many times, I have heard that Wikipedia is an unreliable source because its content is written by amateurs (many times biased), and it can take some time before false information is removed.
 
But, THIS is funny!  Wikipedia, itself, has an entire section on it:

Criticism of Wikipedia
 
With that chuckle, I'm going to bed.  LOL
 
 

Darlene K. (367)
Tuesday June 22, 2010, 9:49 pm
You cannot currently send a star to Just because you have done so within the last week.
Excellent..., and I am inspired that more are seeking Truth of their own, regarding this issue. thank you carole.
 

(0)
Tuesday June 22, 2010, 9:53 pm
Actually, the historical fact is no what is critisizsed what his criticized is the opinion he derives from his conclusions. As for Dershowitz who actually is the one who quoted Novak on something Novak did not say. Ask Novak if he called it trash, he didn't. Alan Dershowitz said Novak called it that which he denies and felt strong enough about it, that he wrote a letter to refute Dershowitz's claim. What Novak did comment on is the opinion Finkelstein draws he draws. Also the book they are referring to is the Holocaust Industry which is based on the opinion he draws. The historical record he presents is not incorrect at all, and hasn't been refuted.

As for your strong belief in Dershowitz's research or non research makes me believe that you don't bother reading anything unless it is on the computer. Read the full books, research the material yourself and then draw a conclusion rather than using Wiki to make your point. Dershowitz probably wrote the section in Wiki. He doesn't just distort the factual historical record, he actually just makes it up. He also welshes on bets. Why not read someone like Ben Ami or the historical record presented by Benny Morris? At least they are credible.
 

Just Carole (341)
Tuesday June 22, 2010, 10:06 pm

As the graphic for this story says:

"Truth is not contingent upon one's belief in it, altered by the words one chooses to describe it, or wounded if neglected. It is simply truth."
 

Surunatik WTF (38)
Tuesday June 22, 2010, 10:10 pm
An aspect to this, the conundrum of speaking the Truth.

There are so many paths and levels to get to Truth realm, let alone know the Truth, to support speaking the Truth. The Truth is also subjective, important to factor that, you should know what I mean. And then, when speaking the Truth it is just good form to do your best to comport reasonably. And all this crap just moves us further from the essence of Truth. Think about it.

We're pushing boulders uphill. I believe the solution is to boldly practice Truth, in every way conceivable to you. Hell, it just might catch on. But then, I think you (you know who you are, lol) are having too much fun intellectualizing and dissecting 'stuff'. Just don't take the bloom from the rose.
 

Teddy Bear B. (62)
Tuesday June 22, 2010, 11:21 pm
There is so much in the detail of this article but fundamentally i like the business of getting to one's own truth, recognising that in the "room" you grew up in not everything is as it seems, not everything you were taught is true ....

Try "disrobing" your soul .... you might just find many of the clothes you have been wearing don't look so good, might even smell a bit ....

... and to witness a soul without robes you can do it at any time you find a child that has yet to be "soul clothed" ... ask yourself what side of the "fence" do they think they are on? ... what side of the fence will they one day find themselves on and what do you think they are likely to believe when THEY are fully "Soul Clothed"
 

Patricia Plunkett (79)
Wednesday June 23, 2010, 12:50 am
I found this article very informative and refreshing, the truth in all this is human rights are being abused continuously, shrouded in propaganda and so hard to decipher why ? As I see it without all the knowledge being uttered on this page. People are suffering while we argue who's to blame or not to blame, who's right and who is wrong, I agree with Connor think with your heart and see what is happening out there. I have stated many times that I do not agree with Islamic laws any more than I agree with Israeli laws when they break the code of decency. Murder is murder, torture is torture abuse is abuse no matter what side you view from, they are all wrong and must be stopped not given credence. Obeying international laws set up to protect citizens must be adhered to other wise why bother to make them. The fact is that Israel continues to ignore them whilst taking hand-outs and weapon supplies from the western nations to use against unarmed Gazan people, walk a mile in Gazan shoes then tell me that what you believe is the right way. Until then all the books in the world will not feed one starving mouth or save children from witnessing death, or compensate for homes being taken and given to immigrants. If we are told to believe in Israel's story and blindly accept their truth then we as a race are doomed and we are only giving credence to abuse.Sometimes it IS better to think with your heart not your head, believe what is in your heart not what is in books and maybe we WILL find the peace and truth we are all seeking.
Once again Carole thank you for this wonderful find, at last an Israeli supporter with common sense and feelings.
 

Pete M. (67)
Wednesday June 23, 2010, 1:36 am
Thanks Carole, an excellent resource!
 

Treasure Tree C. (354)
Wednesday June 23, 2010, 2:07 am
Thank you Carole.
 

Marty H. (119)
Wednesday June 23, 2010, 2:26 am
Carole, that was one of the most truthful well researched articles I have ever seen and from a Jew to boot! I seldom favorite things but I did this. I have also used some of his research techniques before. I also like to know the truth and to do that you have to look at both sides as you well know. Thank you very much!
 

Cal Mendelsohn (968)
Wednesday June 23, 2010, 3:05 am
Somehow lost in this whole analysis is the two basic truths that have guided all conflicts knwn to mankind:

1) history is written by the :"winners" (militarily) in every conflict--NO EXCEPTIONS.
To some extent, history is always blinded to the plight of the "losers"

2) There are two sets of "losers" actually from this conflict. The other being the many hundreds of thousands of Jews residing in Arab countries in the Mideast who were either killed, stripped of their citizenship and rights to employment and civil liberties, or otherwise abused by their native populations following Israel's many military victories. As a Jew, the author of this tract had an obligation to at least mention them. Many of these came to Israel with little more than the clothes on their backs He didn't and very few here at Care2 ever do either.

Why is that, Carole?? They suffered tremendously also!
 

Joy Wong (73)
Wednesday June 23, 2010, 3:07 am
Noted.
 

Arild Warud (158)
Wednesday June 23, 2010, 3:45 am
Thank you for posting this article "C".
 

Pamylle G. (461)
Wednesday June 23, 2010, 4:14 am
Excellent !
 

Anis Kureshi (49)
Wednesday June 23, 2010, 4:15 am
Just, It's really nice good article, besides truth is always bitter!
 

Agnes H. (144)
Wednesday June 23, 2010, 4:35 am
Noted and surprised that Hamas is willing for a cease fire, but I can understand there will be parties that will try to undermine this cease fire. If only Israel would agree. Also (Not in here) how come that Hamas surporters get all the aid that comes through whereas the other people have to suffer! I was surprised to read, however, that Israel helped Hamas to get on. If Israel was so keen on Hamas at the beginning why not listen to them now? This article doesn't take away what I think of the Iraeli Government after their attack on the Flotilla. Palestinians haven't got as good weapons as Israel who gets them with the aid of America, and the amount of Palestinians killed against the amount of Israelies being killed is enormous. I might just look into some of the books he mentioned, if I can find them here of course! Thank you Carole!!!!!
 

Just Carole (341)
Wednesday June 23, 2010, 5:03 am

Cal, the entire world is aware of the history of oppression of Jews; and (with a few sick exceptions by truly hateful bigots) it is understood that their treatment was INCREDIBLY CRUEL. From the time I first learned of the holocaust -- and to this day -- I have been obsessed with wondering "Why???" "How could this have gone on without being stopped?" "What kind of monsters could do such evil things?" I become furious whenever I hear of people denying or minimizing the horrors.

However, in many ways, that same thing is now happening to Palestine. Wrong is wrong!
 

Maurene T. (122)
Wednesday June 23, 2010, 5:18 am
What amazing information this man has compiled. He is truly an inspired writer and everyone should read this. I often wonder why people do not choose peace....it really is the only solution to prevent the radicalization of people on both sides.
TY for this post.
 

Teleia P. (0)
Wednesday June 23, 2010, 5:23 am
To Cal Mendelsohn: You're right that history is written by the winners. So far, however, Israel has been the winner, and even their history paints them in a bad light. Had Israel been left to fend for itself, the situation would have been much different. Since Palestine is recognized by most countries as its own State, Israel would not have gotten away with treating Palestine so terribly.

Additionally, I think the reason fallout perpetrated on Jews in other Middle Eastern countries has been largely ignored is that, I'm sorry to say, it's not uncommon. I think anti-Semitism is almost expected, and when compared to the suffering of Gazans, often seems somewhat unimportant. Please understand that I am NOT saying that this is true or right, just that it is.
 

patricia lasek (317)
Wednesday June 23, 2010, 6:56 am
"...and the Truth will set you free."
 

(0)
Wednesday June 23, 2010, 3:00 pm
Hi Cal,

I follow your winner and loser analysis, but since when does law not matter? This has been ruled on. The West Bank, Gaza and East Jerusalem is illegally occupied territory, the wall is also deemed illegal, order to be dismantled and reparation to be made to the Palestinians, the siege is also illegal, but just because Israel is allowed to do what they do, makes it okay? Terrorism is always the excuse for Israel's actions, but who created the "terrorists"? Your a pretty logical guy, just interested in what your thoughts are.
 

Just Carole (341)
Wednesday June 23, 2010, 4:03 pm
 
For those of you who enjoyed the insight of this author, I invite you to also read another of his offerings, brought to my attention by Margaret M.:
 
Oppressive Occupation Also Harms Israelis, Americans - Richard Lorer World
 
(Thank you, Margaret, dear friend.)
 
 

Deana P. (286)
Wednesday June 23, 2010, 5:02 pm
ty
 

Jelica R. (157)
Wednesday June 23, 2010, 6:33 pm

This article made me aware of my ignorance by introducing some surprising facts I didn't know before. I'd better shut up now, swallow my humble pie and write 1000 x: "I don't know everything. Ignorance and arrogance walk hand in hand!"

TY Carole
 

Just Carole (341)
Wednesday June 23, 2010, 6:35 pm

I love your humility and honesty, Jelica! (Thanks for including me as a friend . . . It's an honor.)
 

Just Carole (341)
Wednesday June 23, 2010, 6:56 pm

As this article's lifetime winds down, I wanted to express my most sincere thanks to those who truly read and considered the impressive content of this submission.

I am wonderfully surprised constantly by the inherent goodness of most people.
 

Teddy Bear B. (62)
Wednesday June 23, 2010, 7:04 pm
When Europeans fled to America, they were (in majority) oppressed by very wealthy people.
They proceeded to do the same firstly with Aboriginal Americans, now (those who have acquired wealth) to themselves (i.e. also oppress the ordinary people).

When European Jews fled to Israel, they were (in majority) oppressed by very powerful people.
They proceeded to do the same firstly with Aboriginal inhabitants (still in the now), and now and in the future will (those who have acquired power) oppress themselves (i.e. also oppress the ordinary Jewish people).

We should not be surprised that the Israeli Power mongers act like German and other European power mongers. Is t not clearly apparent that genocide is at work in Israel as "the final solution"? Just as it is here in Australia, as it is in (all) of North America with Aboriginal people?

Never question why people do not choose peace - it is a lie perpetrated by those who exercise power - i defy you to bring me proof that the FIRST choice of any people (not power mongers and manipulators of truth) is peace - especially if EVERY woman in every survey has equal voice!
 

Just Carole (341)
Wednesday June 23, 2010, 7:12 pm

I'm hoping that you meant to say: "I defy you to bring me proof that the FIRST choice of any people (not power mongers and manipulators of truth) is [NOT] peace - especially if EVERY woman in every survey has equal voice!"

And, if that is what you meant, I agree wholeheartedly.

I think most of us, from time to time reminisce about our fondest memories -- and many of them are of a period of our childhoods, where simple things, such as capturing fireflies, brought us great joy.

While we must all mature to a point where we can overcome temporary disappointments -- it should never be acceptable that losing our children to warfare, living in oppression and constant fear and hunger should be a part of adulthood -- and WORSE, our short-lived childhood.
 

Just Carole (341)
Wednesday June 23, 2010, 7:22 pm

In all honesty? Before posting this, I had decided NOT to make another submission on the Israel/Palestine issue. (I'd tired of reading all the ugliness.)

But, after digesting the measured and valuable words of the author, Richard Forer, with his background and extremely impressive/exhaustive/unbiased research, I felt it would be wrong not to share it with those who seek truth.

For those who appreciated it, as I did, I'm pleased to have done so.
 

Teddy Bear B. (62)
Wednesday June 23, 2010, 8:38 pm
Yes sorry of course NOT peace
 

Michael G. (12)
Thursday June 24, 2010, 3:56 pm
I'm a little late getting to this, (worked nine days in a row , than took my little girl in for dental surgery on my one day off). Sorry for rambling with the personal stuff, I must still be tired.

This is an important article, well written and thought provoking. All the comments here show how important everone understands this issue to be. Personally I agree with whoever said we need to get past the "blame" stage and move on to compassion and truth, for everyone. Not easy to do, especially when you have spent a lifetime being told about how much "they" hate "us", thus justifying "us" hating "them" back. TIme for people to see the world from the the other side of the street. Sorry I'm ramblin again. Thanks Carole.
 

Teddy Bear B. (62)
Thursday June 24, 2010, 9:46 pm
Well said Mary - if tired - if somebody hates you they probably BELIEVE they have good reason to - and if you hate them you probably BELIEVE you have good reason to ..... problem is, those in power will use all means to ensure that you BELIEVE ....... even to the extent that you accept atrocities committed as "necessary" .... whatever side of the great divide you stand! Surely when (as happened with Vietnam) you see atrocities being committed by your own, you will cry STOP ... as happened .... people here are saying SHOW US THE TRUTH ... don't tell us lies that lead us to hate when we should be feeling guilt, sorrow, remorse, compassion and a desire to stop what is happening in YOUR name. Big Brother is saying, you do not need to know the truth, it is not in the national interest ...... beautiful!!!!
 

Past Member (0)
Friday June 25, 2010, 1:19 pm
in this conflict there are two sides: those who want peace and those who want death. Yes the death of millions of Jews was a horrible thing. But does that mean that in all of history, no other group of people have ever suffered??? If 20 million Russians died in WW2, does that give them the right to kill 20 million people now? Most general estimates suggest that almost 50 million people died in WW2. Why is 17 million Jews somehow better than 50 million people of all races and religions!?! Here's the thing, I have yet to hear of any Israeli say that they want peace. When Israeli's speak of peace, they talk about an end to the fighting and how they will have more land to do this and that. Where does that land come from? Israel steals it, which makes more people mad and makes for war.
 

sue M. (184)
Monday June 28, 2010, 4:22 am
I usually avoid the Israeli/ Palestinian thing like the plague because there is so much anti someone in the offering and too many lies that shroud peoples judgment.

But, ok so the article is moving and the guy a Jew states his race is wrong that is commendable and true to a point. It is a brave effort to stop what is going on and it sure may be time for someone just to say enough, it is us whether it be true or not just to knock off the guns and hatred. But, while It takes 2 to have an argument it takes a third to keep it going.
Think with that fact people. There is a 3rd who neither Israeli or Palestinian people know about who is keeping the fighting going. In actual reality there really is a 4th in this case and if you are savvy enough can realize the who and why are the US, and $$$$.
 

Jennifer G. (20)
Monday June 28, 2010, 9:43 pm
Thanks for the post.
 

Just Carole (341)
Thursday July 1, 2010, 8:05 pm

 
 
A podcast of an interview with Teresa Davis and Rich Forer, Members of the Interfaith Peace Builders delegation, which just returned from Israel and the West Bank.  (The interview begins at 23 minutes 57 seconds. Please listen. It was good.)

 
Wednesday, June 30, 2010
 

 
 

Past Member (0)
Friday July 2, 2010, 12:55 am
Carole,

That was a great interview. But Teresa and Rich, both Jewish, will most likely be labeled as "Jew-haters" now!

ATW
 
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