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One Year After Fort Hood: The Missing Story of Muslim Peacemaking

World  (tags: Muslims, peacemakers, media_bias, Fort_Hood, War_Resisters_League )

- 2781 days ago -
In spite of ongoing efforts by many in the Muslim religious community and Muslim-American organizations, the long and vital history of Muslim peacemaking has been lost in the avalanche of reports on Muslims where the mainstream media connects them only...

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Carole Sarcinello (338)
Friday November 5, 2010, 10:03 am
From the article:

"Today, November 5, 2010, marks the one-year anniversary of the Fort Hood shooting, in which former Army psychiatrist Major Nadal Halik Hasan shot and killed 13 people at Fort Hood, Texas, wounding 42 others. As U.S. servicemembers and the families of the victims of this shooting grieved for those who were killed and Americans mourned the loss of life, reports on these crimes riveted the mainstream media. The shootings were certainly newsworthy. The problem is that almost the only time Muslims are featured in the U.S. news media is when a Muslim engages in an act of violence. A one-sided focus on violence committed by some Muslims fuels the racist narrative that “Islam is a religion of violence”—which underwrites the so-called “Global War on Terror.”
In spite of ongoing efforts by many in the Muslim religious community and Muslim-American organizations, the long and vital history of Muslim peacemaking has been lost in the avalanche of reports on Muslims where the mainstream media connects them only with violent extremism. The lack of acknowledgment and recognition in the U.S. of Muslim peacemakers continues to have grave effects on Muslims all over the world as well as those at home in the U.S. In addition, the ongoing hyper-focus by the U.S. state and mainstream media on Islamic militants to the exclusion of those Muslims whose peacemaking efforts oppose militarism of all kinds continues to prop up and justify ongoing U.S.-backed military occupations, including those of Iraq, Afghanistan, and Palestine.
Private First Class Naser Abdo, a 20-year-old Muslim servicemember currently serving in the U.S. Army and seeking Conscientious Objector (C.O.) status on the grounds of Islam, is a Muslim peacemaker. He states, “As I studied Islam and Islam’s commitment to peace, I developed an entirely new perspective on war and conscience… That’s when I realized my conscience would not allow me to deploy.” Pfc. Abdo’s C.O. case still awaits an Army recommendation of discharge from the military based on moral, ethical, and religious objection to all wars. Abdo is facing possible deployment to Afghanistan in spite of his C.O. claim, though Army commanders decided to delay his deployment after he went public with his case. Speaking out as a Muslim, Abdo is against war and has been working with nonviolent antiwar organizations including the War Resisters League and Quaker House in Fayetteville, NC on building public support for his objection to war on the grounds of Islam.
Several Muslim-American organizations in the U.S., such as the Muslim American Society Freedom Foundation, have been key supporters of Pfc. Abdo’s claim for Conscientious Objector status based on the principles of Islam. In a statement released by this organization in support of Pfc. Abdo, long-time Muslim peacemaker and antimilitarist Ibrahim Ramey states, “We believe that his position is not a product of personal cowardice or disloyalty to his nation, but rather, a coherent expression of his faith and his personal belief in the tenets and laws of the religion of Islam.” In a separate statement, Ramey further underscores the U.S. government and mainstream media blackout of Muslim opposition to militarism: “Major Muslim efforts for peace-making in Palestine, Afghanistan, Iraq, and other conflict spots are virtually unknown to U.S. news consumers, and even to policy makers. In my opinion, this phenomenon plays into the hands of institutions that seek to permanently militarize the U.S. economy by creating the illusion that Muslims are ‘the enemy’ and must therefore be controlled or eliminated for the sake of ‘democracy.’”
Many other Muslim organizations also attest to the importance of U.S. recognition of Muslim peacemaking efforts. In “An Open Letter to President Obama” sent on the eve of his visit to Egypt to address the Muslim World in May 2009, 1,600 American-Muslim and non-Muslim scholars on the Middle East called on the U.S. government to recognize nonviolent Muslim leaders: “For too long, American policy in the Middle East has been paralyzed by fear of Islamist parties coming to power…However, most mainstream Islamist groups in the region are nonviolent and respect the democratic process.” This letter further urges the U.S. to discontinue its support for violent political regimes in Central Asia and support democracy through peaceful policies: “The United States, for half a century, has frequently supported repressive regimes that routinely violate human rights, and that torture and imprison those who dare criticize them and prevent their citizens from participation in peaceful civic and political activities…There is no doubt that the people of the Middle East long for greater freedom and democracy…What they need from your administration is a commitment to encourage political reform not through wars, threats, or imposition, but through peaceful policies that reward governments that take active and measurable steps towards genuine democratic reforms.”
Despite the ongoing work of Muslim peacemakers and antimilitarists, Muslims living both inside and outside of the U.S. continue to feel the deeply negative effects of the dominant culture’s association of Muslims with terrorism and violence, often referred to as “Islamophobia.” In the U.S. military, Pfc. Abdo experienced a great deal of harassment and discrimination from his fellow servicemembers: “Early in basic training… one soldier repeatedly insulted me and Islam saying, ‘Go pray to your god that doesn’t exist or your pedophile prophet.’…During the training cycle I persistently reassured my comrades that my religion did not make me an enemy of theirs or an enemy of the state. The climax of this harassment occurred when my comrades all made a concerted effort to get me an unwanted discharge because I was not welcome in their ranks.”
These acts mirror the broader U.S. climate of discrimination against Muslims, as evidenced in the media craze surrounding the “Ground Zero Mosque,” otherwise known as the proposed construction of the Park 51 Muslim Community Center in Lower Manhattan. The association of Islam with terror also served to spark the “International Burn-a-Quran Day” controversy out of Gainesville, Florida, which made national headlines on the ninth anniversary of the September 11th attacks. Just a few short weeks ago, a white New York City passenger named Michael Enright shouted, “Asalamualaykum, consider this a checkpoint!” prior to slashing the throat of Ahmad Sharif, the Muslim cab driver.
Furthermore, U.S.-backed war and occupation has been disastrous for Muslims living all over the world. The Iraq War Logs, which include close to 400,000 classified U.S. Army intelligence documents, were recently released by Wikileaks and include accounts of the violent deaths of 66,081 Iraqi civilians, along with reports by the military that confirm widespread killing and abuse of Iraqi civilians by U.S. military forces and U.S. contractors. The documents also reveal U.S. military instructions from high up the chain of command to ignore detainee abuse by Iraqi authorities. In the U.S.-led counter-insurgency war in Afghanistan, there has been 31% increase in Afghan civilian deaths and a staggering 55% increase in child casualties so far this year as a result of the war, according to the latest statistics from the United Nations. The U.S. is also conducting air strikes and Special Forces operations in Pakistan, Yemen, and Somalia and is slated to send $3 billion in military aid to Israel for FY2011 in support of its military occupation of Palestine.
The abuse and killing of Muslims isn’t an accidental byproduct of the U.S. military pursuit of a select group of Muslim extremists. It is the direct result and the intended effect of the U.S. government decision to go to war in pursuit of military-backed power in Central and South Asia. When the mainstream media in the US focuses solely on Muslims as violent extremists, it acts to provide a justification for these wars. The direct link made between Islam and terror also provides cover for waging war against a people, not simply targeting a few individuals, because according to this narrative, any Muslim could be a terrorist.
It is for this reason that we as people living in the U.S. must work to undo the deeply harmful effects of this narrative on the lives of Muslims living both in the U.S. and abroad and construct new narratives not premised on the logic of war and imperialism. We must lift up the stories and ongoing work of Muslim peacemakers like Naser Abdo. We must continue to make the connections between the over-amplification of violent acts committed by small groups of Islamic militants and the ongoing need for the U.S. government to attempt to justify unjust war and occupation. In a statement in a press conference earlier last month, Pfc. Abdo was clear in making this connection:
“In reference to ‘Islamophobia’ as it pertains to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan there is much that I have come to understand as a Muslim Conscientious Objector. As a Conscientious Objector, I am morally disinclined to associate terror with Islam as is often the case during routine training exercises…To a soldier, the association of terror and Islam serves the purpose of falsely justifying ones actions in combat by stripping Muslims of their humanity. The association of terror and Islam is what we now refer to as ‘Islamophobia.’…It is as if the U.S. public is just recently following a trend that has been rampant in the military for years. Only when the military and America can disassociate Muslims from terror can we move onto a brighter future of religious collaboration and dialogue that defines America and makes me proud to be an American.”
For more information on Naser Abdo’s case, go to
Also, check out this article that will appear in the Fall issue of Fellowship magazine by Ibrahim Ramey:
For more info on Muslim peacemaking, see also Rabia Harris’s piece “On Islamic Nonviolence” in Fellowship:


Cher C (1429)
Friday November 5, 2010, 10:05 am

Thnx hun!


Past Member (0)
Friday November 5, 2010, 10:40 am
Noted...thanks C for the article and links.

Past Member (0)
Friday November 5, 2010, 10:46 am
Important article Carole, I'll be right back.

Michela M (3964)
Friday November 5, 2010, 10:51 am
Noted!! Thanks, Ciao!! Michela

Jae A (316)
Friday November 5, 2010, 11:12 am
As Qais Yousef said, important article Carole, and I too will be back.

Kathy Chadwell (354)
Friday November 5, 2010, 11:14 am
Yes, this story has been all over the news (AGAIN)
What troubles me is they seem to forget this guy was an american.
Remember Timothy McVeigh?
Am I the only one who see this as homegrown terrorism?
Stop blaming others for the hatred our own government has put upon our shoulders.
Thank you Carole

Kit B (276)
Friday November 5, 2010, 11:16 am
"The shootings were certainly newsworthy. The problem is that almost the only time Muslims are featured in the U.S. news media is when a Muslim engages in an act of violence. A one-sided focus on violence committed by some Muslims fuels the racist narrative that “Islam is a religion of violence”—which underwrites the so-called “Global War on Terror.”

When does the media not focus on that which is "bloody?" On very rare occasions we may see a story that one could "label" feel good, not often and certainly not a headline story. That's not a modern invention of media but rather the history of newspapers. How many times have we read or heard in a movie an editor saying to a reporter, "get me the headline in blood and worry about the truth later" I don't think that is uniquely American.

If I were Muslim I too might feel a target, though that is not the best perspective for evaluation. When a group is under the lens of the media they naturally should feel as uncomfortable targets. Once the incident passes, the focus does as well. If we attempt to force the media to show all sides of one group then we must demand they do the same for all groups. I can imagine they would claim that is not their job.

It is not the function of each of us to find a balance? Each new group in America will have to be prepared to wait in line to seen as a part of the milieu, it always takes time. That doesn't seem to change no matter what I or any of us as individuals might prefer.

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Friday November 5, 2010, 11:19 am

Thank you, Kit.

I, for one, become extremely suspicious when I have to search for the other side of ANY story.

(The media will be FORCED to present balanced stories when people quit reacting to blatant fear-mongering.)

Blacktiger P (247)
Friday November 5, 2010, 11:34 am
Thanks *C*, and my comment would be is that if these peaceful Muslims policed their own people and turned over to the "democatic" law, the people including Imams who are setting fires in the minds of potential terrorists there would then be peace. Why should the rest of the world have to find ways to control the extremist, when it is within their own best interest to handle the problem?

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Friday November 5, 2010, 11:39 am

"if these peaceful Muslims policed their own people and turned over to the "democatic" law, the people including Imams who are setting fires in the minds of potential terrorists there would then be peace."

Well, I, and several million Americans and worldwide peace activists, have been trying for decades to put an end to perpetual aggressive/invasive wars -- and yet, we have yet to stop it.

I don't think that analogy proves that most people are violent.

Kris B (136)
Friday November 5, 2010, 11:49 am
People are getting more information from other areas (like Care2) and different views from around the world. I know it is changing some people. I see it in myself and friends. When we learn more about each other and think with other opinions the fear gets replaced with facts. I wish some of my friends in the states would quit dosing themselves with talk radio, that keeps racism alive. Please open your mind, dig out the facts and think. Then act.
Let's all keep learning and growing.

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Friday November 5, 2010, 11:51 am

I think the majority of people (or, at least, readers here) are aware that individual citizens have very little say as to how their taxpayer dollars are spent.

It is also a well-known fact that most countries are controlled by corporate entities -- and war is a huge money-maker for corporations.

It seems unfair to expect more control from individual citizens already in a war-stricken environment to have more control than the people living in so-called "democratic" societies.

Ludger W (71)
Friday November 5, 2010, 12:13 pm
noted, thanks

Michael Carney (217)
Friday November 5, 2010, 12:17 pm
Noted, thanks Carole...Well, sadly, they've decided that Muslims are now all boogie men, so we aren't going to hear anything positive, about anything...And also the press don't have any teeth anymore, they print what' they're told to print...Any anything that's not on the approved list, get's buried...There is no more Free Press in our Country...Just the rhetoric, that the Government, thinks we can handle, and daily fear stories about keep the tea baggers foaming at the mouth about the mad Muslims who want to kill us all...

ParsifalAWAY S (99)
Friday November 5, 2010, 12:30 pm
It's a good idea having the article posted into comment box Carole!
Since September 11, we KNOW Arabs are the terrorists.
(prior we knew it was Communists)

For liberty we fight Arabs now.
And God said... go kill the brown people.
(After we have nearly extinguished the red ones)
But muslims are good.
We love them! As scapegoats for our failures.
And we easily can point with the finger and call all of them radicals.
Err, should we, perhaps start cleaning our own house?

George Carlin Why We Kill The Brown People/We Like War

Kathy Chadwell (354)
Friday November 5, 2010, 12:31 pm
Some Muslims ARE trying to change things towards Peace.

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Friday November 5, 2010, 12:33 pm

One of the reasons I often post the article as my first comment (depending upon the length) is because I have noticed that many either do not actually read the article; or have a problem accessing it.

Thanks to all for commenting!

Vivien Green (153)
Friday November 5, 2010, 12:35 pm
Thank you Carole have posted to my FB and Twitter pages. This is very important we need more articles like this to restore balance!!

Past Member (0)
Friday November 5, 2010, 12:40 pm
Thank you Carol e for posting this and the entire article above too.
Wish this could make a change
Taliban Is ... Freedom Fighters
Osama Bin Laden Is... Dead

Past Member (0)
Friday November 5, 2010, 12:41 pm
I think there is no democracy or liberty in the nation with media being controlled by small number of persons. Those persons control the media in a way that serves their issues and interests, no wonder why the mainstream media show only one side of the story especially when they talk about the Arabs and Muslims.

When an Arabs being killed in Palestine or Iraq, the media mention them as numbers in a sub or quick news, but when someone being killed by an Arab, you see this news in all the medias, they devote considerable time to talk about this story, analyse it and show many programs to discuss it.

The media can convince the people of what they want, they way they report the news, the amount of time they spent in talking about the news, have a huge effect over the viewers. They contact the subconscious of the viewers to make them totally believe in what they see in the media, and don't go to another resource to watch the news again.

The media is the most effective tool that is used to control the human mind. Movies, T.V. Shows, songs, news, programs, cartoons, all of them are being made in a way to brainwash, and fill the minds of the viewers and convince them of information and beliefs to make them as robots being controlled by the persons who own those media.

Children are their important target, when a child convinced in something in his/her childhood it is stuck in their mind, they hold it to their adulthood and they try to mimic it, and its so difficult to remove it from their minds.

Thanks to Carole and everyone who tries to put an end to the domination of the media and show the other side of the story to the world. That the truth is not what we see in the media. Its what we search ourselves.

Peace on earth

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Friday November 5, 2010, 12:47 pm

Thank you, Qais. I am privileged to be surrounded/supported by people such as you, who wish only to have full coverage presented of worldwide problems, in order for people to make INFORMED decisions!

Past Member (0)
Friday November 5, 2010, 12:50 pm
The links in my last contribution above:
Try the other way round.

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Friday November 5, 2010, 12:59 pm

I am old enough to remember hearing history teachers discuss the evils of Communism (during the "red scare").

One of the principal points of their discourse, praising our democracy, was how wrong it is NOT to have freedom of press; that the people "behind the Iron Curtain" were only allowed to read government-sponsored media reports, and that the U.S. felt it important to sponsor such programs as "Radio Free Europe."

How sad that I now must go beyond our our own mainstream media, but fortunate that I have access to alternative opinions.


Past Member (0)
Friday November 5, 2010, 1:04 pm
Thank you for your tireless devotion to spreading truth and enlightenment.
What a shame more people do not take the time to learn and think for themselves but simply allow political pundits to formulate 'instant opinion' for them. Ahh, the age of convenience!
But the shame of being revealed as a follower of a corrupt and dishonest philosophy will follow them throughout eternity.

Barbara W (342)
Friday November 5, 2010, 1:16 pm
Carole thank you for this important forum and the truths that must be our mantra! You never cease to amaze me..( Private First Class Naser Abdo, a 20-year-old Muslim servicemember currently serving in the U.S. Army and seeking Conscientious Objector (C.O.) status on the grounds of Islam, is a Muslim peacemaker. He states, “As I studied Islam and Islam’s commitment to peace, I developed an entirely new perspective on war and conscience)

Re: Why should the rest of the world have to find ways to control the extremist, when it is within their own best interest to handle the problem.

BlackTiger, Could it be that our government's policies are to blame? Could it be that their governments serve the same greed as our leaders? Are we such pure hearts that "We" are always doing right for the right reasons or do we use religion, fear, etc, to control the masses. "There's enough Blame to go around" The policies of American via the pernicious actions of mega Corporations are the enemy of all peoples of the world!

Take a hard look at what it's done here to our people on their own turf! Americans are for the most part a wonderful people but, the lessons some are learning, the questions being asked is, are "We" being duped? BIG TIME! Time for the rest of the nation to grow up and understand that the peoples of the world, who have fallen victim to US and European policies, see their resources treated as if they belong to anyone but them and, this includes their loved ones who have and continue to be sacrificed to this end! Ask Americans who have lost their homes, through no fault of their own, how they feel..

A person who believes themselves to be a patriot, true to their faith and the ideals of their country, will fight back when threatened. When no one listens to the disheartened, what recourse do they have? Violence is never the answer since violence always brings the worse out of people and usually leaders emerge out of the violence who have agendas far different then the people they have sworn to serve. One has only to look at our American legislators. Are they really listening to the people? Or are they listening to those who agree with their gr$$d infested agendas?

I have dear friends who faithfully follow Islam and they're not hiding in dark corners. They "Dare" speak out about the extremist within their faith. Yet they are being judged harshly, here, in the place of their birth, for being Muslim. My American Muslims friends felt the need to go back to a place where they feel safe. A country which made them, even though they be American born of European decent, Muslim, feel respected for who they are not what their faith since, according to them, Christians also thrive here. It's Syria!

The reason Republicans took seats in the congress, is because "Bait and switch and spin it to death till ignorance rules the weak and ill-informed has been a successful game plan! It's called brain washing! These next years will be a crucial turning point for the United States and our President. Will we rise to the occasion? How many understand what that means? Do we have the courage of our convictions? What are our convictions based on?

Black Tiger it's time that Americans began to take a tough stand and not one based on self-serving! Time to take stock of ourselves! "We" have seen the enemy. It's those who were elected to serve the constitution but have chosen to serve mega corporations. Bowing to their every whim no matter the cost to this nations people, much less the peoples of the world.. .It's the not so Supreme court of this country who put the final nail in this nations democracy! Good conscience cannot blame Islam for this!

Glenda J (158)
Friday November 5, 2010, 1:18 pm
Thank you Carole for sharing healing is ongoing for this magnitude

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Friday November 5, 2010, 1:26 pm

Thank you, Barbara.

The phrase: "Physician, heal thyself" often comes to mind whenever I hear such lofty denigrations of others.

Sir Walk F (124)
Friday November 5, 2010, 2:19 pm
All religions do is make idiots follow stupid rules.

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Friday November 5, 2010, 2:22 pm

I happen to believe that the founding fathers had some great ideas; that they were intelligent, and had a great deal more foresight than most who came after them.

No, I don't think they were gods, or without fault -- they were, after all, merely human.

But, I live in a country that was predicated upon the worthiness of their documents, establishing meritorious values on a new government, striving to establish basic freedoms.

Yup, some of those founders were later revealed to be scoundrels, with less than admirable inclinations -- but, bless their hearts, they even saw to it that there were provisions to amend their omissions and/or lapses of judgment.

I loved the country I learned of in early history and government classes. (and I still have great admiration for their courage -- in spite of my Native American heritage.)

I can't say, "Let's take this country back," but I CAN say, "Let's take this country forward."

Enough of the bickering, and name-calling, and finger-pointing!

I'm not alone here. We exist in a homogeneous melting pot of immigrants, which SHOULD be an enriching experience. Respect our differences, and instead of in-fighting, and reliving past mistakes, LEARN from the past and PROGRESS.

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Friday November 5, 2010, 2:35 pm

The only thing fostered by murder is revenge.

Krasimira B (175)
Friday November 5, 2010, 2:36 pm
Very interesting discussion. Noted with thanks.

You cannot currently send a star to Just because you have done so within the last week.

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Friday November 5, 2010, 2:41 pm

Thank you, Krasimira.

We cannot expect others to be civilized by behaving like barbarians.

Carrie B (306)
Friday November 5, 2010, 2:55 pm
You cannot currently send a star to Kit because you have done so within the last week. Thank you JCarole for the story. Very noteworthy!

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Friday November 5, 2010, 2:58 pm

I think that HYPOCRISY is the single-most galling fault most people of conscience despise. (And I'm glad.) It's that self-righteousness that makes some people reluctant to condone or replicate that which they despise in others.

It is -- for that very reason -- that I call the tactics used by those in this U.S. government who collude to override the rights of their citizens to be treasonous.

They are a betrayal of, not only the Constitution each legislative, executive and judicial branch position holder vowed to uphold, but the confidence of the very people they were elected to represent.

Linda G (187)
Friday November 5, 2010, 3:01 pm
You cannot currently send a star to Qais or Carole or John or Barbara because you have done so within the last week.
I want Walter Cronkite back! I believe he was one of the few journalists with integrity. Our media have become sensationalists and their only motive is ratings and profits. How best to attain those? By stirring up the pot, by creating enemies, by showing only the extreme.
It is not "newsworthy" to print the truth about good, decent, law abiding people of any or no faith. All people have more in common than not but those with an agenda for power, position or money will continue to spread the words of intolerance and this will continue until we all refuse to allow it. Until we refuse to support any so-called news organization that promotes fear, promotes "us against them", promotes division, we will continue to lose our humanity and our inherrent goodness.

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Friday November 5, 2010, 3:06 pm


Carole Sarcinello (338)
Friday November 5, 2010, 3:08 pm

There are few things I can think of in a so-called democratic society more contradictory to freedom than the withholding of information.

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Friday November 5, 2010, 3:13 pm

Think about it: If "your" representatives are afraid that, if you knew the whole truth, you'd disagree with them . . . then, they are NOT concerned with representing you!

Barbara W (342)
Friday November 5, 2010, 3:26 pm
Carole thank God for the brave hearts at Care2 because many of you leave no rock unturned and stay the course in getting information out. We need folks like you in office! Linda I couldn't agree with you more about Cronkite. Dan Rather was a follower of Cronkite but over the years he's been out numbered by the new pundits. Dan Rather covered the story of a serious Nuclear issue right here in America, exposed by a creditable whistle blower, taping 3 episodes.

The first was aired the next two were scraped and not shown in New Mexico where this issue was hot at the time..The house leaders, Reid being one, met with this man and in the end have done nothing, except to pass legislation to keep funding these, in need of serious repair, facilities..Where in the mainstream media do you hear these stories. Shortly after declaring we were going into Iraq and this nuclear issue was aired, Rather was fired. He did get some justice. He won his lawsuit against the network that fired him.. Why was his story aired in a passing venue?

Catherine Ignatowski (80)
Friday November 5, 2010, 3:27 pm
Noted. If everyone would sit and think, it's not only the Muslims, there are many many others. The most corrupt group that carry out murders is our own government. I'm reading a book now titled, Behold a Pale Horse and let me tell you it is a great read and gives alot of insight into our government. It even mentions Osama Bin Laden and how he is a member of the CIA.

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Friday November 5, 2010, 3:29 pm

Thank you, without meaning to be an alarmist, we need to look within.

The terrorists are right here.

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Friday November 5, 2010, 3:31 pm

(Well . . . maybe I AM meaning to be an alarmist.)

Just take a peek, o.k.?

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Friday November 5, 2010, 3:36 pm

I really HATE to bring up the Holocaust (but, I must -- because I spent so many years of my youth, after hearing of it, wondering: WHY didn't anyone stop it??? It left me with nightmares; and wondering how so many good people let it happen; and crying over the shame of it all.)


Carole Sarcinello (338)
Friday November 5, 2010, 3:49 pm

This is the same prejudice, and selfishness, and FEAR that allows genocides to happen.

MY people were nearly extinguished for greed; all newcomers to this "land of the free" were beset upon; after CENTURIES of torment, blacks are only now realizing a release from the torment; and the list of new "enemies" (now immigrants from Mexico) continues . . .

WHEN does the ignorant oppression of those different end?

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Friday November 5, 2010, 3:57 pm

If you are "proud to be an American," then you must embrace the freedom that gave you and your ancestors the welcome to come here -- and offer those same open arms to others.

We already have laws in place to protect ourselves and our country; and punishments for those who defy them.

Hans Mueller (591)
Friday November 5, 2010, 4:03 pm
Noted. Thank you Carole!

Friday November 5, 2010, 4:12 pm
I have just been on another post on Care 2, Christians and Jews Once Again in the Muslim Line of Fire ( The whole purpose of the article in my viewpoint is to disseminate Islamophobia. I didn't read all of the posts on this thread yet, as I was so fired up over the other site, I wanted to comment on Islamophobia.

Below is a sample of the article:

"Let's apply a simple test. Western Muslims constantly complain about Islamophobia (which is rather like rapists complaining about Rapeophobia) but how many of them have actually picked up and left?

I can't count the number of European Jews that I have met, who were forced to leave Europe because of Muslim Anti-Semitism. I have yet to encounter anything similar on the Muslim side. The largest communities of Mizrahi Jews (from Muslim countries) are in Israel and Los Angeles. Not in the Muslim world. Jews from Muslim countries today exist primarily as refugees of an unacknowledged Nakba, who have gotten on with their lives, instead of endlessly dangling housekeys in front of the camera.

The Jews have vanished from most of the Middle East, for the same reason that the Christians are vanishing. Because of the elephant in the room that no one will talk about. An elephant with a Koran and a gun. "

At my place of work, I have colleagues that are Muslim, Jewish and Christian with a majority of them of the Muslim faith. Not one, has expressed or demonstrated anything other than peace. I have known most of them for more than a decade. We have discussed all topics, including politics, 9/11, the war on Iraq and Afghanistan, the situation in Iran and not once has even one of them stated anything that would constitute a violent intent or wish. They, like many of us, are tired of the US's warmongering, Israel's aggression, but not once have I heard anyone ever wish ill upon the American people.

When we see an act of terrorism, we delude ourselves with the belief that they hate of freedoms, unwilling to admit the destruction we have reeked upon them. I find that the people are so willing to stereotype and by into the America needs an enemy, are the same people who opposed the civil rights movement, the same people who would have been perfect little Germans during WWII and the same ones that will always need to feel that they are better, smarter, more powerful than another collective group of people, in other words, another race.

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Friday November 5, 2010, 4:19 pm

I agree with you, Margaret -- but only to an extent.

Among the many Muslim-haters, are those same people who consider themselves NOT to be prejudiced, because they fought against bigotry against blacks and other minorities -- but FAIL TO SEE that their own prejudice against Muslims is the SAME kind of hatred.

Newly-diverted prejudice -- but against a new target -- is STILL ignorant!


Robert S (111)
Friday November 5, 2010, 4:23 pm
Noted and shared. Great article which needs to be read out there in there in Fox country. Thanks Carole.

Yvonne White (229)
Friday November 5, 2010, 4:37 pm
I agree with Kathy "What troubles me is they seem to forget this guy was an american. Remember Timothy McVeigh? Am I the only one who see this as homegrown terrorism? Stop blaming others for the hatred our own government has put upon our shoulders." Mainstream Media sure does it's best to keep the Anti-Islam fires burning too! Though FAUX is the worst, I'm not sure you'd call it mainstream - more like Reich-wing RepubliCON side ditch..;)

Evelyn Z (300)
Friday November 5, 2010, 4:42 pm
Noted. Thanks Carole

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Friday November 5, 2010, 4:45 pm

I was just reminded of a man I once worked with (Jim). He was an oldster, who prided himself on serving in WWII, at the time of the Holocaust.

(Mind you, I was working in City Hall, with the majority of my co-workers being minorities.)

He decided to call us all together, in a moment of peace, and described his experience with "minorities." He proceeded to tell us of what he considered to be an example of a good-natured Black, "Happy Joe."

Now, Happy Joe was a good guy -- not one of those angry ones -- and every time he happened upon him, he exhibited his kindness by tossing an apple at Happy Joe. And, Happy Joe was so appreciative that he'd always smile big and say, "Thank ya, sir!"

Unbelievably (to him), Jim -- the teller of tales -- was surprised when half the staff reported him and had to be subdued from throttling him!

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Friday November 5, 2010, 4:46 pm

Jim, by the way, was early-retired not soon after.

Linda h (86)
Friday November 5, 2010, 5:27 pm
Thanks Carole you work so hard for us!

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Friday November 5, 2010, 5:29 pm

Don't praise me too much, Linda. I need to sleep, so I value my conscience!


Barbara D (70)
Friday November 5, 2010, 5:32 pm
Peaceful, peace-promoting Muslims are not sensational enough to be "news" in today's entertainment-oriented media. Angry, violent terrorists are promoted because they get attention for the people vying for big ratings.
"What if they declared a war and nobody came?"--the news reporters wouldn't be there, either!

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Friday November 5, 2010, 5:36 pm

Thanks, Missy Barbara.

(But, more than likely -- since they're never wrong -- the news reporters/pundits would declare that peace was "their" idea in the first place. hehehehehe)

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Friday November 5, 2010, 5:58 pm
I want to take a moment (and probably an embarrassing one to the honorific) to ask each of you who appreciated this post to bestow a green star -- instead of to me -- to one of the people here, on Care2, who, in my opinion, is most deserving of one for working (without accolades) for her single-minded vigilance against injustice:
Margaret M.
Bless you, Margaret, for the punishment you absorb, and the never-ending peace you promote.

Sandrea S (278)
Friday November 5, 2010, 6:06 pm
Here's my moment of peace and love and hugs to all....we all bleed the same.

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Friday November 5, 2010, 6:06 pm

The usual "Care2 glitch"
Margaret M.

Debbie G (306)
Friday November 5, 2010, 6:07 pm
Thanks *C* for spreading truth and hopes for peace. Great article and many thought-provoking comments on this article.

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Friday November 5, 2010, 6:21 pm
Please stand up for honest journalism by noting this story, and signing the petition:
KO Back on Air NOW!

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Friday November 5, 2010, 6:23 pm

Charlie L (47)
Friday November 5, 2010, 6:32 pm
Noted, thank you Just C. As Qais points out, there is no real democracy in a nation where the media is controlled by a small number of people....very rich people I might add. The mainstream media tends to mislead and confuse a lot of people. To know what's really going on the world one needs to read alternative news sources and visit sites like Care2 and read the mainstream press with a very open mind. The better known newspapers are generally reliable for TV and movie listings but little else. Very seldom do they present the news in an impartial and unbiased manner. It seems their goal is to manipulate people to form opinions favorable to their world view and ideology rather than inform the public in a way that will enable people to determine for themselves what their opinions should be.

With anti-Muslim prejudices being what they are I have to wonder if there are some who are just as critical of PFC Abdo for refusing to deploy as if he were a bomb-throwing terrorist. Bigots will try to put a negative spin on almost anything.

Morris G. (18)
Friday November 5, 2010, 6:49 pm
The missing story of Muslim peacemaking? The story is missing because it is damn hard to find Muslim peacemaking. The one story you have is about a Muslim serving in the ARMY seeking "conscientious objector status". Did he think he was joining the Boy Scouts? CO status used to mean something during the draft which ended 37 years ago. Oh I get it, he joined the ARMED FORCES and then read the Koran and decided he was now a peace lover? I wonder what chapter of the Koran old Hasan read before he killed 13 of his fellow citizens and wounded another 30 or so in the name of Islam. Going to have to show me a little more before i climb on the Muslim Peacemaking wagon.

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Friday November 5, 2010, 6:51 pm

And bless your heart for letting us all know, Morris! ((hug))

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Friday November 5, 2010, 6:57 pm

(What would we DO without helpful people like Morris to interpret the state of world affairs???)

Hmmmmmmmm . . . Turn off Faux News, do independent research, and think for ourselves?

Pat B (356)
Friday November 5, 2010, 7:24 pm
Thank you, Carole for this post. IMHO, All peoples, all faiths of this nation must join hands in unity and embrace Peace. xox

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Friday November 5, 2010, 7:24 pm

When I was a little girl, we had no car in my household, so I rode the bus whenever I needed to venture more than a few miles from my house.

After I boarded the bus, mainly out of boredom, I would start reading the overhead advertisements.

WHOA! There was a picture of Kruschev, banging his shoe on a U.N. table, with the caption, "We will bury your children!"

If that wasn't enough, we had monthly drills (bury your classmate's body by covering it with your own) at school, replete with periodic PBS films (and we got them, even with only 3 channels) showing good Americans building bomb shelters.

In the 60's, we had to live in fear of freedom-loving blacks raping good white women. (So now, I couldn't get off the bus, lest some testosterone-driven young buck would suddenly want an under-developed, thick lens bespeckled, shy girl.)

Now, that I'm grown, and somewhat well-read, and have seen several times "The Russians Are Coming," all I can say is:


Pat B (356)
Friday November 5, 2010, 7:27 pm
You cannot currently send a star to Just because you have done so within the last week. xox

Marta B (45)
Friday November 5, 2010, 7:29 pm
Noted. Thank you

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Friday November 5, 2010, 7:30 pm

Thanks, Pat, but I left out that I grew up in Canton, OH -- not far from Kent State -- so, I also got to learn that even non-violent peace protesters can be killed.

So, I still say: "Keep up the good fight."

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Friday November 5, 2010, 7:35 pm

If my life is worth anything, then it is to demonstrate that, without my values and speaking out for the rights of others, I may just as well be dead, because without values, I am already purposeless.

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Friday November 5, 2010, 7:43 pm

We are all linked, and have more purpose in this life than self-sufficience.

And those who have chosen to believe that just existing is not enough, I can understand why their selfishness also makes them want to zealously cling to the belief in an after-life.

For me, it is enough to have been given the gift of breathing, experiencing and revelling in this one, limited, life. And that knowledge -- that my time is finite -- makes me want to give all that I can in the uncalculable moments of my existence.

Thank you all for being a part of it.

IE Ries (237)
Friday November 5, 2010, 8:17 pm

...and that makes 152!

Thanks, Carole :)

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Friday November 5, 2010, 8:21 pm

Now, THAT'S why I luvs your monkey butt, Eva!


IE Ries (237)
Friday November 5, 2010, 8:26 pm

Heeeeeeey....!! I ain't been climbin' no trees lately! LOL

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Friday November 5, 2010, 8:29 pm

[secret joke]

Friday November 5, 2010, 8:41 pm
Noted, and thanks Carole.

Carmen S (69)
Friday November 5, 2010, 9:47 pm
My family loves our country. In WW2 my sister was in the Marins, my brother in the Army and he lost his life, my Husband in the Army with a Bronze Star and a Purple Heart. Yes we love our country but it sure is not perfect . We have too many bigots and racsist in it.

Someone once said and I cannot remember the exact saying but something like this.
They went after the black people, but I did not stand up.
They went after the Jews but I did not stand up.
They went after the Muslims, but I did not stand up.
Now they are after me but there is no one left to stand up for me.

I am glad there are people like Just Carole, Kit, Bee HIve Lady, Dandelion, and some others who are fighters for this country and for people.
I thank you ladies with all my heart.

John Farnham (52)
Friday November 5, 2010, 10:40 pm
Of course, there shouldn't NEED to be a story about Muslim peacemaking. It isn't as if Muslims weren't among Americans who died on 911. The Crusades were not a Muslim invention in the past. The Liars Club is such a reputable source to say that they are at fault now, don't you think ? As if.

John Farnham (52)
Friday November 5, 2010, 10:58 pm
Robert & Carmen made me curious. Here are citations to the quotation

Rose Becke (141)
Saturday November 6, 2010, 12:06 am
I also thank you for this Carol

Agnes H (144)
Saturday November 6, 2010, 12:27 am
Thank you Carole. To tell the truth, I don't think many people have even heard about the shooting on the 5th November last year. I didn't know anything about it until I read the article. I always note and then go to the article and I'll also mention it that if I can't get through to the article for some reason. But I have Muslims in the family and they have 2 daughters but I've NEVER seen my cousin or her daughters wearing a headscarf or any sort of covering. Her husband NEVER visits his family in Palestine without his wife or daughters and is oposed to any religious nonsense as he calls it. They are anxious now as to what is going to happen to them as the live in The Netherlands. I hope they can stay with the rest of the family as most of the children's friends are Non-Muslim. There is good and bad amongst every religion. I think amongst every religion there are more good ones than bad ones, although by what we get to read in our papers the only good ones in Oz are the sportsmen (women) as that's all we read about!

I want to apologize to Kit about a comment I made concerning the Jews. I think she misunderstood what I said as I don't think there are nothing but bad Jews, like I said there are good and bad amongst everyone and I was merely saying something I was told by my Gran just before she passed away which had only just happened at the time of my comment to her. It didn't mean I have anything against them!

Past Member (0)
Saturday November 6, 2010, 12:40 am
We of the human race should know by now not to vilify a group of people. We may be members of groups, we may support groups, we may be forced to take part in group activities BUT we are all individuals who have minds of our own and who make our own ultimate decisions. We must never judge any individual by their group association.

Jytte Nhanenge (64)
Saturday November 6, 2010, 3:10 am
Dear Robert and Carmen, it goes like this:

“First, they came for the communists, and I did not speak out, because I was not a communist. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out, because I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out, because I was not a Jew. Then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak out.”
Martin Niemöller, German pastor (1892-1984) January 6, 1946. (Wikipedia 2010.)

Thank you dear Just for this important post and your ongoing work to make this world exactly as you are yourself: Just.

Arild Gone for now (174)
Saturday November 6, 2010, 3:26 am
It's always the fundamentalists that f**** up the sitiation.

Chien Chao (105)
Saturday November 6, 2010, 3:50 am
thank you

Bill C (91)
Saturday November 6, 2010, 4:31 am
Thanks for posting and forwarding this, *C*

Marty H (119)
Saturday November 6, 2010, 4:53 am
Thanks Carole and noted! Muslims have become the scapegoats to further the so called, "war on Terror" and of course Israel loves people to hate the Muslims!

Terry B (649)
Saturday November 6, 2010, 5:10 am
Duhhh... What's this clown Abo trying to pull anyway? There is no longer a draft in the United States, so there should be no true "concientious objector" trying to avoid service.

That seems very easy to accomplish these days. Merely avoid going into a recruiting office and signing anything.

Sounds to me like it could just be a case of some halfwit trying to get out of an unpleasant assignment, doing so by riling up people over an issue that has nothing to do with a particular superstition (a.k.a religion) that is understandably of some concern for unrelated reasons.

patricia lasek (317)
Saturday November 6, 2010, 5:12 am
There are peace-loving people of all faiths and nationalities. Unfortunately, our "fearless" leaders don't listen to us.

BTW, not everyone joins the military to kill or go to war. There are so few jobs left for the young they are encouraged to enlist. Some enter the military to receive an education. Promises are made to them and not kept.

Terry B (649)
Saturday November 6, 2010, 5:33 am
Well, Pat, you may not always have the political pull to land a job in the military that does not involve violence, like that semi-draft-doger Ronnie Bonzo Reagan staying in Hollywood during the war to make "training films" but anyone with an IQ high enough to even get into the military will understand that they are joining an organization whose fundamental business is war and defence. If you don't like the business, you should stay the hell out.

It's like beiing an adamant opponent of Wal-Mart and its policies, but still buying your Joan Baez CDs these because she is a good person.

Bob E (113)
Saturday November 6, 2010, 5:40 am
Yes… there is too much Islamophobia in America… Who benefits from all this? Yes… Zionist expansion…

American Jews should stand up and say "enough” to Israeli settlements and say “negotiate” to the Israeli government… but they don’t… they turn their heads to theft, oppression and killing… in the name of goodness...

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Saturday November 6, 2010, 6:28 am

Good morning, everyone.

So happy to read civilized remarks!

Victoria B (36)
Saturday November 6, 2010, 7:47 am
'LOVE AND COMPASSION' IS A UNIVERAL LANGUAGE it is odd how many 'Humans' are unable to comprehend it, even though it is quite straightforward, with some simple rules that even the animals of the World understand. The Great thing about Care 2 is that we are collectively pretty much fluent in this language, and thank you Carole for reminding us how great we are at being World Citizens.


Thomas H (37)
Saturday November 6, 2010, 8:00 am
Noted! Very good article. Many of my friends are part of the WRL and they promote interfaith dialogue at every chance. Fortunately, I live in a University town where diversity is inherent. I just wish the islands of ignorance had this sort of perspective.

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Saturday November 6, 2010, 8:19 am

Yes, from time to time, it's necessary to remind people that everyone is NOT consumed by hate and fear. (I know it does me a great deal of good to read such positive feedback.)

Past Member (0)
Saturday November 6, 2010, 8:27 am

Trequl M (170)
Saturday November 6, 2010, 9:35 am
Noted with thanks for posting.

Robert O (12)
Saturday November 6, 2010, 11:32 am

Sheryl G (360)
Saturday November 6, 2010, 12:18 pm
Thank you Carole for the post.

. (0)
Saturday November 6, 2010, 12:28 pm
I found this article very confusing, and condradictory. You know what I would like to see, Muslims all over the world, yell out "here they are, here are the terrorists!" Instead, Muslims who say they want peace keep their mouths closed to American forces who could free them of these animals. Instead, they live in fear (support?) of these animals instead of trying to help clean up their country.
Why is there no such thing as a Muslim resistance? Why do you think Americans are so cautious of Muslims?

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Saturday November 6, 2010, 12:36 pm

I dunno, Allan.

Come to think of it, why don't Americans do that? How many hostile Americans have you "outted" lately?

Americans even have "war resisters," but that hasn't stopped war, has it?

It's amazing the high standards people set for "others," that they don't feel they need to follow themselves.

(In fact, I found your own comment to be "very confusing and contradictory.")

Past Member (0)
Saturday November 6, 2010, 1:24 pm
noted and thanks. i too am concerned that in our fear and panic from terrorists we are losing sight of the mainstream Muslims, just as many in the world believe the U.S. is filled with extremists on the left and right, we all seem to forget about the huge majority in the middle. these are not the extremists, do not promote violence and are peace loving, religious neighbors. yet, this does not sell magazines or newspapers nor will it add to the power of any television show. only "bad" news has value, which is why the internet is so very important as we can and do have access to the middle groups. Islam is not a violent religion just because a few radicals have twisted the message, and we have a few home grown who have done that as well. let's take a step back and embrace the majority of peaceful Muslims as we will all need to support each other if we are to defeat terrorists.

Richelle R (62)
Saturday November 6, 2010, 6:43 pm
Hate is evil and dangerous no matter who the haters are, or who the targets are.

John Farnham (52)
Saturday November 6, 2010, 9:22 pm
It gets tricky. The first thing to understand about the military is that it's based on a lie and always has been.
Most of the time deployments are not about 'defence' : not unless you can convince me that assaulting your neighbour on his land is such. Good luck with that.

Henry P (171)
Saturday November 6, 2010, 9:57 pm
Noted and Thanks for posting Carole

Teresa W (782)
Sunday November 7, 2010, 4:52 am
noted, thank you

Gary C (5)
Sunday November 7, 2010, 6:53 am
Noted thankyou.....

Past Member (0)
Sunday November 7, 2010, 6:57 am
An interesting topic. Thank you Carole for posting it.
As a Brit living in Spain I was a little unsure about adding my 2 pence (cents or centimos) worth into what seems largely an American issue. As I'm me, I'm going to anyway!
If we are going to have fear then let us fear what is real. We have to realise that we are not so far evolved from the apes to be able to rationalise our fears. However, we must also be enlightened and not allow the "media" to lead us like sheep. If this was happening in another country we would call it propaganda.
In the USA and Europe, we elect governments to "administer" on our behalves. Unfortunately, these elected bodies control us rather than do what we elected them to do. Governments contain too many people whose self interest is placed above doing what they are supposed to do. Many of these individuals are simply puppets to large corporations. So far absolutely nothing that we didn't all already know.
One easy way to cover up the mass corruption which we are forced to accept every day is to provide a "common enemy" for the majority to fear and then to create propaganda to extend fear into hate. Most people don't have the interest necessary to dig beneath the surface to expose all the facts. The media would have us believe that Islam is an evil religion/culture that is determined to take over the world by infiltrating our societies and destabilising them with acts of violence.
I recently read that there are approximately 1.6 billion Muslims in the world. How many of these are actively involved in terrorism? The probability is that it is a very small number when compared to the total number of people of that faith. How many live in countries under oppressive regimes that use their media to depict the USA, Israel and Europe as the "common enemy" rather than govern their countries as the populations wish? How many live in poverty where their real concerns are to have enough food to eat? How many live in fear of their own governments and are unable to speak out? How many are fed government and media propaganda and do not have the time, resources nor the inclination to find the facts for themselves.
It is not unreasonable to be concerned about terrorism but it is not reasonable to live in fear of 1.6 billion Muslims the vast majority of whom are simply trying to make their way through life just as we in the USA and Europe are.

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Sunday November 7, 2010, 7:04 am

Excellent addition to this conversation, John!

(Your opinion, 2 cents or more, is always welcomed.)

Sandrea S (278)
Sunday November 7, 2010, 7:35 am
Thank You! Your star has been sent to John

Past Member (0)
Sunday November 7, 2010, 1:39 pm
Noted and thank you very much Carole for this insightful article !
A lot of good posts here I think everyone said it better than I could so I will leave it at that.

greenplanet e (155)
Sunday November 7, 2010, 3:40 pm
Islam has made many advancements to civilization -- in mathematics, science, art, architecture, astronomy, literacy and literature,etc.

"Terrorism" is a red-herring. The threat to the planet is climate change and oil corporations etc who keep on and on abusing the Earth for profit.

Maryjane P (43)
Sunday November 7, 2010, 3:42 pm
It is vital to seek the truth and carefully place the bits and fragments of what we find into the puzzle where they belong. This is not an easy task. Unfortunately what the mainstream media provides is a distorted representation of truth. (Self serving, ego truth)...
It takes great effort, patience and integrity to sift through all of the information that washes over us; it is critical to share what we discover...
I used to find myself defending the truth to those who were tricked into following the herd, refusing to question the sludge that they are handfed...
Now I simply state what I believe to be that "other truth" that is hanging out there for those who dare to pick it up...and I do my part by informing...not convincing or validating...I am way beyond that...sharing information is what it's about at this difficult, painful, unbelievable or 'inconvenient' the truth can be is what it is.
It's similar to that saying, "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder"....
Only it is "Truth is in the heart of the truthful."

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Sunday November 7, 2010, 3:45 pm

Thank you, Mj P.

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Sunday November 7, 2010, 3:49 pm

By the way, I agree with you about how intricately woven the web has become with the advent of new sources of information.

When in doubt, I ask myself, "Who does this information benefit?" If it benefits a party whose interests I distrust, I sway my opinion accordingly.

resignd Cannot remove (139)
Sunday November 7, 2010, 4:39 pm
Great postings but I may have missed one who wrote this facet of this story. They were ready to send this man to the battlefront until the news became publicly known and then they had to honor his beliefs. Likely they would have put him where he would have been in the most danger to shut him up. I am so glad the story is out there and that Just Carole has posted it. Thank you.
Also glad the War Resisters League has printed the story. We need to keep on top of this and if needed start a petition in this fellows behalf.

Little A (33)
Sunday November 7, 2010, 5:47 pm
"Islam has made many advancements to civilization -- in mathematics, science, art, architecture, astronomy, literacy and literature,etc. "

I'll always listen to my ancestors but unfortunately many of the things you refer to weren't Muslim but pre-Muslim inventions. An era they still sell as their own yet denounced it (read the comments here:

Since monotheism, intellect and sympathy died. Sorry.

resignd Cannot remove (139)
Sunday November 7, 2010, 7:52 pm
Shaktiva I.
Your referenced link has nothing about what you wrote. I tried to leave a comment but it didn't seem to register it but gave no explanation. It was about Obama's comment about religions treating each other with respect and dignity, yet he did not condemn Isreal's treatment of the Palestinians. He never even indicated he is a tiny bit aware. He is blinded by the glitter of money dangled over him by the Zionists who run Washington. Shame on our government for allowing this atrocity continue. Yet we are involved in our own atrocity aren't we. Try to find some link that supports your comment that attempt to slam and degrade Muslims and Islam. You obviously are from the group who feels the bible gave you special privileges, which is another scam. No one people are better than another, and God is not looking down on Israel smiling.

Patricia Plunkett (79)
Monday November 8, 2010, 3:21 am
This is not only a problem in America it is world wide. You have to ask yourself who owns the media ?While they conquer and divide religious factions in society they are causing chaos among us all, and make it easier to control us .Last time it was the Jews now it is the Moslems, think about it, who is behind this move ?The Zionists and the Jesuits have for years planned this war, and with our consent [by our silence], will continue to do so. Meanwhile in the background we have HAARP, to contend with which falsely claims that Climate Change is our main enemy when we know for a fact that they knew about making floods in 1966, they used it in Vietnam. In 1952 In England the flood caused by the RAF was intentional - an experiment. Today we have Pakistan yes they were involved in that too. Why do you think they are placing nuclear weapons in a secondary capacity now ?In Britain the Navy and RAF are being broken up and their ships shelved why ? because they have a new weapon of warfare - weather -control. Prof MacDonald was a member of the Presidents Science Advisory Committee he said [quote] , "The key to geophysical Warfare is the identification of environmental instabilities, to which the addition of a small amount of energy would release vastly greater amounts of energy". He was very active in the search for world domination of weather warfare. This puts the current wars into perspective, while we are busy hating one another , they get to play with their new toys which cause earthquakes Hurricanes, flooding and drought. Instead of fighting each other we should be getting ourselves educated opening our minds to what is actually happening. I do not care whether you worship a God or not, or who's God is the best, I am with the people and the people are dying let's all do something to further our knowledge and control ourselves. I am with you Just C once again thank you.

Terry B (649)
Monday November 8, 2010, 5:56 am
Your country is rightfully famous for its quality booze, Patricia, but put the bottle down.

Zionists and Jesuits?

Next we will have the great conspiracy between the Turks and Armenians to conquer the world.

(Oh, leave her alone sez my better half, she probably just forgot to take her tablets.)

Linda h (86)
Monday November 8, 2010, 12:20 pm
Actually Terry few things in life are black and white. My grandmother told me that her life was saved by a Turkish woman who kept her safe during the genocide. Try.

Barbara W (342)
Monday November 8, 2010, 12:47 pm
Touché Carole! Touché

Come to think of it, why don't Americans do that? How many hostile Americans have you "outted" lately?

RE: Americans even have "war resisters," but that hasn't stopped war, has it?

It's amazing the high standards people set for "others," that they don't feel they need to follow themselves.

(In fact, I found your own comment to be "very confusing and contradictory.")

Terry B (649)
Monday November 8, 2010, 12:57 pm
Linda, when one uses a collective term, exceptions are always allowed for exceptions. If that were not the case, language itself would become meaningless and useless.

Quantum physics has proven there are no absolutes.

I bet it would not be hard to find a Jesuit who saved a Jew, but nevertheless my methaphor is valid,

Linda h (86)
Monday November 8, 2010, 1:43 pm
Terry in spite of all that happened to my grandmother with the deaths of her children and first husband and in spite of what happened to my family here on 9/11 because I can remember this one good woman I can live in peace with good people everywhere on earth. Because I have lived in peace all the others who come in contact with me will remember me too and live with a more open mind. This includes all my children who have good Muslim, Jewish and Catholic friends and all the neighbors and all their kids and so forth out to the taxi drivers who pick me up and to the Muslim delhi owners across the street who work next door to the Jewish shoemakers who buy takeout from them and fix my shoes. This is how it works Terry all from one good Turkish woman. You could say I owe my own life to that woman and the only reason I'm bothering with commenting here again is out of respect for her. I don't like everyone and I am at contant risk of some terrible thing ending my life because I choose to live here but I don't think holding on to hate will change the odds and I would rather stand with the good ones than the scared ones.

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Monday November 8, 2010, 2:03 pm

Thank you for sharing that, Linda.

There's much truth in your statements.

Patricia Plunkett (79)
Tuesday November 9, 2010, 2:03 am
Terry, I do not drink whisky have never liked it. You show your ignorance when you ask about the Zionist and the Jesuit, and haven't a clue about what was written in my last comment.We are all playing the game of hate because it has been so successful in the past. How many of your friends buy Murdoch's press ? How many watch Fox News and believe what they are being told are facts ? The war in Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, Bush & Blair had a hard time trying to explain that one.As in all wars the propaganda machine takes over and we are baited into hating one or other religions/countries or people. Why people fight over who's God is the best never ceases to amaze me, where is the God to stop all this fighting, He never seems to aid his brethren.I do not take drugs either and how dare you accuse me, I have a clear conscience have read a lot of information before I come to a comment and make them with the intent of educating people who would not normally come across this information - hence HAARP, the Zionist and the Jesuit, do not denigrate information Terry it is what keeps peace in the world and decent people decent, tolerant and gives the ability to live with other races and cultures. Not blindly support racists and warmongers.

Maria Cristina A (119)
Tuesday November 9, 2010, 4:12 am
If one could get tired of fighting for what one believes, I'd be getting VERY TIRED of focusing and highlighting that muslims are PEOPLE, with a belief such as our own.
They, just as the jewish-catholic-christian tradition humans, have a few nuut cases that create havoc.
When you read the papers, do any of you make the balance between crimes commited by people of both beliefs?
Do you, by any chance, only read that islamic countries do wongs and NONE of the others do them also?
It's about time people grew up.

Terry B (649)
Tuesday November 9, 2010, 4:47 am
Oh, yeh, Linda, cute description of you wonderfully integrated daily life, a regular Ozzie and Harriet existence; there are all these really good people of all superstitions (a.k.a. religions) which is why the world is just so perfect and getting better every day with another few million humans abd you never know when your home, office, hotel, bus, or subway is going to get blown sky high.

So your grandmother was lucky enough to run into one of the exceptions and become another Anne Frank (how come so few remember the name of the Dutch family that saved the Franks?). I am happy for her and you, but how many were not so lucky? Thousands died in Auschwitz for each person on Schindler's list.

But that's why the poor planet is is such a mess, human beings, the so called crown of creation, killing everything in sight over who's stupid belief in what stupid myth is correct.

Which of these idiots do you prefer? The mohammedean mass murderer and pedophilic polygamist chopper of heads and limbs, allah? Or, god, the christiam madman who subjected his own son, one of the few really "good guys" of all time, to the most despicable sort of torture? Perhaps the jewish clown, jhvh, who floods the whole world in a fit of insanity, killed people for looking around, and played dirty tricks on old men?

A pox on all their non-existent houses. Mother nature will eventually right things by bringing on a HIV or flu epidemic to get rid of us, including you and I, but not in the way that two of my best friends ended their supposed Boston to Los Angeles flight in the smoke and flames of the WTC.

Unfortunately the process is much too slow for the polar bear.

Amd Patricia, (1) don't make a fool of youself going around making assumptions about matters beyond your ken -- nobody I know reads any of Murdoch's crap or watch Fox (poor old man Fox must be turning over in his grave; all the old Jew wanted to do was make movies to entertain people), and (2)I don't know where this god doofus is either? I have been to the top of Mt. Olympus twice, and Mt. Ida once.

Zeus was never home.

John Lennon and Joan Baez had it right. No religions, no nationalities. (Too bad it will never happen.)

Have a nice day. I am going to fill the bird feeders and take my greyhound for a walk.

Patricia Plunkett (79)
Tuesday November 9, 2010, 11:58 am
J.Lennon and J.Baez ? Had it right.No Religion and no nationalities ? Is it you who's on something [ too bad it'll never happen ?] Not if you treat people as you do and it is you who dinna ken son no me. For your information I am an atheist, have been for years and it angers me to see religions fighting and dragging us into fighting. I stated in my last comment that I did not care which God was yours, but I am not arrogant enough to believe that I am right and they are wrong it is my personal choice not to believe the drivel. But you must also accept others opinions if you know what they are on about, look for the Book the Black Pope it has very interesting information for the non-believer also look up Haarp and discover the joys that they present, then come back and discuss the contents of my other comment.
Have a nice day with your birds and greyhound.

Terry B (649)
Tuesday November 9, 2010, 5:51 pm
Patricia sez:

J.Lennon and J.Baez ? Had it right.No Religion and no nationalities ? Is it you who's on something.

Are you possibly really only 13 years of age?

Duhh... yeh Lennon and, later, Baez

Just Google the single word IMAGINE

Past Member (0)
Tuesday November 9, 2010, 11:36 pm
i know a bunch of you are going to reject this. but whatever.
what about body count? the dead? mostly arab. how do we even that one? can arabs forgive and forget with the body count of millions dead on arab side and a few thousands on yours? not a chance. you want us to forgive and forget then bring back our dead and we will forgive you for the sufferings you caused and we will take our loved ones home. but you can't do that can you?
and you expect us to forgive some of you for killing us and many of you for helping and all of you for standing by.
do not be deceived by the arab nations that talk peace. they are very minor players sitting on corrupt thrones.
there is the question of the body count.

Patricia Plunkett (79)
Wednesday November 10, 2010, 1:47 am
I know the words of Lennon very well Imagine was my favourite song and I totally believed the words.Do not insinuate that I am imagining what is happening in the world today. Do your read? or just sit about all day criticising others? I have asked you to read about the contents of my comment in every other comment, but you don't you prefer to sit back and let your belly rubble, make insulting remarks to everyone.Your comments are aggressive and futile and you are just showing your ignorance, when one has to resort to insulting,name-calling they show their intelligence levels. They only show further ignorance. Actually you are becoming a bore, predictable, why bother to write if you have no input ?Oh and by the way I am 65 not 13, probably would be ignorant of Lennon and Baez if I was. You have a nice day talking to the birds and taking your greyhound for a walk and leave the bigger issues to adults.

Past Member (0)
Wednesday November 10, 2010, 6:26 am
i've gotten quite a few people here mad at me, and let me tell you. it was a pleasure. i sometimes can't understand how people can have certain beliefs when the facts are right in front of them. they disparage the facts by expecting people to believe them. not one time has anything i've said about the arab/jew question ever been retorted with facts. but yet they malign me and accuse me of distorting facts. oh well, whatever.
but you terry take the cake. as hard as i try i have never gotten anyone as mad as you got Patricia.

pete O (242)
Wednesday November 10, 2010, 6:42 am
Thank you Carol !!

Terry B (649)
Wednesday November 10, 2010, 5:53 pm
Her problem, Nadine, not mine.


Carole Sarcinello (338)
Wednesday November 10, 2010, 5:57 pm

I've tried to enjoy the personal swipes, but do you think you could return to the subject of this post, instead of revelling in your nasty one-up-itship?

Yes, we think the meaner you are, the more skeered we are -- *yawn*

(Find a playground, bullies!)

Past Member (0)
Wednesday November 10, 2010, 8:49 pm
return to the topic? i live in the topic. till i was 14. you live in hillbilly woods. pretty easy for you to sit on your wicker throne and pretend you're smart enough to give us advise. to teach us love. yeah okay. i'm glad you think so highly of yourself.
and terry, next time you want to spill your toxic pee across a nation bordering israel why don't you bring your macho manliness and pee across israel's border and into lebanon. or do you only pee on those already down?

Patricia Plunkett (79)
Thursday November 11, 2010, 5:05 am
I agree that we should return to the subject if we can without being treated like ignorant fodder by some on this page namely Terry B. This is a very serious subject and one which we all should be aware of - Islamaphobia is rampant across the world, Gaza is still occupied and people living in concentration camps. Aid to Gaza stopped by Israeli IDF. Nasser Abdo has my support if many more were like him then we couldn't go to war. I am not angry at comments made just annoyed by the ignorance, you should read me on a bad day Nadine. As I write there is another aid ship bound for Gazza which has been held in International waters, the Greek Captain has attempted to extort money from the convoy and the helpers of Gaza are being held to ransom, the travellers are from international communities. They think they will be taken to Greece as illegals, yet again Aid is being stopped to Gaza, anyone wishing more information on this subject please contact me through Care2.

Terry B (649)
Thursday November 11, 2010, 5:13 am
Nadine, you seem to be either (1) just plain illiterate and unable to read my posts that you seem to be trying to quote, or (2) geographically retarded.

To review my Mideast adventure, I peed on regressive, restrictive "Saudi" Arabia from the Hashemite Kingdon of Jordan, much to the amusement to the always friendly Jordanians, who laregly seemed to share my opionion of the sand bandits to their south.

However, you compliment my manliness by claiming that I peed from Israel into Arabia. Most people that have the least inkling about that part of the world know that Arabia is not "a nation bordering Israel."

Buy an atlas and study it. You know the old saying (or maybe not): Better to remain silent and be thought a fool rather than open your big bazoo and remove all doubt.

Terry B (649)
Thursday November 11, 2010, 5:21 am
Carole, back to the topic as you so rightly suggest, anyone looking for peace in the Mideast should scan the current post on Palestininan food from Qais, the Jordanian gentleman who is always such a positive contributor to Care2, and the comments to his post.


Linda h (86)
Friday November 19, 2010, 3:24 am
Terry, I've been blessedly away from the computer and so I've missed your dead on grumpy old man skit. lol I wonder do you still hate the Japanese? I had lunch with some last week they seemed so nice in spite of their superstitions the bombing.
You can't be all bad if you like coyotes and Cuba.
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