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Rabbi Arthur Waskow | Gaza-Israel Violence: The Fuller Story


World  (tags: Gaza-Israel, Rabbi_Arthur_Waskow, truth, 'HUMANRIGHTS!' )

Just
- 650 days ago - opednews.com
In this report to readers and members of The Shalom Center, I will be filling in that back story with reports from the Israeli and Palestinian press.



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Comments

Kit B. (276)
Saturday November 17, 2012, 11:42 am

Excellent article that details the "causes" for this current war of adventure and advantage by Israel, that just happens to occur, at election time.
 

Just Carole (338)
Saturday November 17, 2012, 11:45 am

Thanks, Kit. As I said in my message to friends:

"This is a very contentious issue, but one I don't feel we're all getting unbiased information on. As such, I welcomed Rabbi Waskow's two-sided contribution and timeline."

 

Roxy H. (340)
Saturday November 17, 2012, 12:21 pm
I welcome all info, cause i know nothing about this stuff, and i have a friend there and worry about her terribly ty my people for keeping me informed
 

Judy C. (106)
Saturday November 17, 2012, 12:28 pm
This article is to be commended for objectivity. Watching this violence unfold is like watching a train wreck on an endless loop. Thanks, Carol.
 

Roxy H. (340)
Saturday November 17, 2012, 12:30 pm
one question, or maybe this is not the place to ask... is there a cause...or...is this someones cause? I feel bad for the people in this whole thing, is there a solution to this? It seems hopeless, Kind of a huge struggle. I get so many losses with the wolf cause, and just heard some devastating news today... so I see this news thread and can feel empathy with the Israel area , I am not well informed, but from what i see .. It seems so confusing there.
 

Just Carole (338)
Saturday November 17, 2012, 12:42 pm

I subscribe to the Shalom Center newsletter, and have for years. I admire the Rabbi's very outspoken conviction to truth and peace.

 

JL A. (275)
Saturday November 17, 2012, 12:45 pm
Thank you Carole for striving to provide a forum for factual exploration of this "contentious issue." In my lifetime, some issues trigger passionate and emotional response from one side or at points in time; this is one where I cannot recall a point in time without such emotion and passion from all sides.

I give the Rabbi kudos for honing in on one area I suspect most all could agree on: this is a 'life and death' issue. He then seeks clarity for definitions of the two relevant terms (life, death).

I wonder if there is other common ground for agreement by all? The possibilities that come to mind include:

The roots of some of the areas of contention go back many years: some close to a century or more than one or even two generations past.

The leaders of the affected and/or involved parties have changed with time along with some positions and policies.

Not all issues from past years are unresolved(e.g., is Sinai still an issue?)

Media perspective/coverage can be affected by ownership, expected audience or other potential biases.

Do these all qualify? Are there other items that belong on a list of areas of agreement?

Will beginning with such an exercise affect levels of emotion and contention? I don't know, I can only hope it might.
 

Roxy H. (340)
Saturday November 17, 2012, 1:01 pm
wonderful, so there is an end to this? Hope? This is uplifting TY !
 

Just Carole (338)
Saturday November 17, 2012, 1:04 pm

Yes, it is VERY complex and centuries of animosity -- from both sides.

We cannot change the past, but we must address the present.

The only way this can end is with peaceful resolution. I find it pointless to keep wagging fingers and demonizing one side or the other. That only aggravates and divides the useful minds that could use their resources to work together for the answer.

 

JL A. (275)
Saturday November 17, 2012, 1:17 pm
You cannot currently send a star to Just because you have done so within the last week.
 

Just Carole (338)
Saturday November 17, 2012, 1:21 pm

The victims in this, and every war-like scenario, are NOT the decision-makers, influenced by secretive, and many times dark, motives.

The majority of the casualties of war are women and children. In most cases, they were simply trying to raise a family -- with the same virtues (love, civility, honor, familial ties) that ALL humans aspire to. Instead, both Israeli and Palestinian innocents are living a nightmarish hell (one, that will also taint their futures, due to their memories and distrust).

Anyone with compassion should be able to see it!

 

Roxy H. (340)
Saturday November 17, 2012, 1:34 pm
See Carole, you know me, I work for the victims and see only compassion and don't really understand many issues... and many people don't see that o.0 and I feel silly admitting that... :( But I am Old and set in my ancient ways now... hippie mother earth has settled into me, and I really don't think I will be changing before i float off into the neverlife... But I have a fellow animal activist there and I want to make sure she is ok, and I cry for her every night when i hear there is bombs going off... so i see this news and care2 is my family. you all give me the real news..and i expect that from family... so thank you... I would never tell anyone else my secrets but you. i love you ... :)
 

Kit B. (276)
Saturday November 17, 2012, 1:35 pm

I left this comment on another site, that was, I suppose rabidly pro-Israel. I don't know why or how people can treat war as if it were a football game. The "players" do not get up and go home. The fans are cheering for death and destruction, all to often those are children dying. I'm not responsible for the unfortunate comments made to Carole on that site, but I felt uncomfortable, just reading those comments. She was trying to make the point, that innocents are dying, that no one wins a war, everyone loses, for that she was treated badly.

I wish others would stop giving support to one "team" or the other. Many know that the Palestinian people live a dreadful life, and that the action of their government as the actions of the Israeli government do not represent the desires of the people. Human beings the world over want peace, an opportunity to provide a shelter, food and education for themselves and their children. War is not desired by the people, only by political leaders.


As long as the world takes sides, as long as humans find excuses there will be war. In WWII 65 million people died, and in the end, who won any thing? Children were left without parents, countries devastated, and in the end, there were no winners, only those who lost more.

The background of the exodus to Israel is clear and the reasons known. Any two countries living in this proximity can find common ground for resolution of the issues, but it's politically advantageous to not make a settlement nor an agreement.

So while some of you celebrate another victory for Israel, please think that innocents on both sides of this are dying. There is nothing here to support, that is unless you believe war is ever an answer.
 

Just Carole (338)
Saturday November 17, 2012, 1:45 pm

Roxy, girl . . . you know I love you too. I also have friends in that area (and those who suffered through Iraq and the abominations that occurred there).

Kit, as always, another voice of reason.

I am blessed by my humane friends (but not with green stars to distribute, *wink*). I'm an, admitted, "peacenik," who never thinks war is the answer.

There's a difference between sudden attack and the need for immediate defense. (I can understand that, and would do the same.) But, not after so many years of continuous conflict.

 

Dianne Lynn Eakin (731)
Saturday November 17, 2012, 1:59 pm
noted--ty
 

Mary T. (186)
Saturday November 17, 2012, 2:01 pm
Thanks Carole, I agree with Kit on this.
 

Kit B. (276)
Saturday November 17, 2012, 2:17 pm

Where oh, where are those green stars when ya need them? Probably hiding under the bed with the cats.
 

mag.w.d. Aichberger (34)
Saturday November 17, 2012, 2:55 pm
Interesting.
(e.g.) comparing the timeline given here, and comment "Netanyahu and Barak have decided to deliberately violate a cease-fire which had just been stabilized" with what MSM are reporting, one could think they were from different universes.

 

Angelika R. (146)
Saturday November 17, 2012, 3:04 pm
sorry I too am out of stars.... bless your heart Carole for posting it. You know I also subsribe and have in fact replied to his email thanking him and praising.
 

Angelika R. (146)
Saturday November 17, 2012, 3:10 pm
I want to add, to remind everyone of the facts, be sure to go to the IMEU website and check out Israel's long standing record of breaking ceasefires ever since 1948..
 

Angelika R. (146)
Saturday November 17, 2012, 3:14 pm
Amy Goodman also highlightes on this weeks DN show the fact that the assassination of Jibari (? forgot his name) came just as there was a new truce proposal from HIS SIDE !
Hamas Commander Was Assassinated Hours After Receiving Truce Deal from Israel
 

Angelika R. (146)
Saturday November 17, 2012, 3:22 pm
If you read Uri Avneri's blog, he even speaks of a deliberate trap planned long ahead by Israel.
 

Angelika R. (146)
Saturday November 17, 2012, 3:33 pm
I just wish this nightmarish hell that currently the ISRAELIS are living would cause an impact on the Jan election, but unfortunately they are so trained to accept this as almost normal and will probably approve their prime minister again...so those hellish nightmares and nightmarish hells will repeat and repeat, and repeat..
Not saying that another leader would deal with this issue much differently, but then there is at least a chance for this. Certainly never with Bibi though.
 

Yvonne White (231)
Saturday November 17, 2012, 4:45 pm
OMG..did the Bu$h League take over Israel? Electioneering via War is Old School Israel alright.. even when they have a Truce..that's too New School RepubliCON!:( America could save a LOT of money by Forcing Peace on both sides! Send Jimmy Carter back to relay OUR demands! We've done it to other countries, why NOT Israel & the Palestinians?????
 

JL A. (275)
Saturday November 17, 2012, 4:53 pm
"War is not healthy for children and other living things."
 

Michael Carney (209)
Saturday November 17, 2012, 5:16 pm
Thanks Carole...
 

Alexander Werner (53)
Saturday November 17, 2012, 5:22 pm
Angelika, this hell that Arab extremists forced on them is quite old. It started well before israel was created, passed through three wars started by Arabs, Arab boycott of Israel, which exists even today and then terrorism.

Israelis know that they have to endure it because they have no option. Arabs want all of Israel and don't care how many of them get killed - Paradise is open for all martyrs. Obviously, Israelis will fight for their right to live in freedom and independence.


 

Just Carole (338)
Saturday November 17, 2012, 5:38 pm

For those who may be innocently unaware, the algorithm used in rating Care2 stories is actually complex (and totally computerized -- with no relevance given to the topic or submitter).

In order for a story to got to "Front Page," is must receive "X" amount (depending on its news category) of note-its within a certain time frame (usually 24 hours); and with enough comments, it also becomes "hot."

For that same story to remain among the "most popular," it must keep receiving comments and note-its. It's not just a matter of who had the most note-its; there are many other factors involved in the equation.

 

Devon Leonard (54)
Saturday November 17, 2012, 5:45 pm
All of this is heartbreaking. The focus now just needs to be on cease fire, negotiations, and a priority to keep working on a peaceful resolution. The alternative is too horrific to speak of. I will choose the higher road. I choose Life............. Far better to be "for" something, than to ensnare yourself in the pit's of hatred. After all we really all are in this together.
 

Angelika R. (146)
Saturday November 17, 2012, 5:47 pm
should we flag? Please stop using caps, that is against the terms here.
 

Kit B. (276)
Saturday November 17, 2012, 5:49 pm

I have no idea what this (.) person is on about, I see far more stories that are supportive of the policies of Israel than those who hope to show a more balanced knowledge base. It might be worth adding Carole that some stories may not appear on the "Front Page" that does not mean that the person that submitted those articles does not receive a golden note. To quote a writer that I for one am fond of...."Much Ado About Nothing..."
 

Just Carole (338)
Saturday November 17, 2012, 5:52 pm

The saddest thing is that these complainers have not even taken the time to see that the article was written by a Rabbi and is totally UNBIASED.

[Shaking my head -- in "somewhat" disbelief.]

 

Kit B. (276)
Saturday November 17, 2012, 5:53 pm

I do believe in free speech I do not believe that others should abuse that privilege. *flagged*
 

Yvonne White (231)
Saturday November 17, 2012, 5:54 pm
Uhmm, how can this anonymous "person" post anything on Care2? Smells fishy & totally Reich-wing!
 

Angelika R. (146)
Saturday November 17, 2012, 5:55 pm
@ Patricia - not even 10thousand notes could right a wrong.
 

Kit B. (276)
Saturday November 17, 2012, 5:56 pm

Then again, that does require reading the article. Something these trolls could not be bothered to do.

Those who do know me, know that I flag SPAM and rarely flag others for saying even disagreeable things, some have to push that beyond the pale.
 

Yvonne White (231)
Saturday November 17, 2012, 5:58 pm
Flagged by reporting "whiner rant against Care2"!;)
 

Just Carole (338)
Saturday November 17, 2012, 6:06 pm

Maybe it's just me but, what difference does it make if one story is more "popular" than another? (I've seen absolute fluff beat out real news many times . . . often just due to its storyline or the popularity of the submitter.)

When I submit something -- and it's not often -- and because I think it's significant. I want my friends to read it as well; and if they agree, to pass it on to their friends.

Just like the real world, yesterday's news is no news.

 

Ros G. (90)
Saturday November 17, 2012, 6:20 pm
Kit B I'm with you all the way. Peace and Goodwill to all and I mean all. I do not want peoples' sons or daughters dying because of these outdated ideologies. There is no right in that - no matter who you are. This is not about Defense - it's all about Offence. You offended me - now I will offend - by taking your life.

The war of words can become the death of the lands and so many people play into it.

A Green Star is coming your way if I haven't sent you one this week.

"BLESSED ARE THE PEACE MAKERS FOR THEY WALK WITHOUT FEAR IN THEIR HEARTS'
 

Kit B. (276)
Saturday November 17, 2012, 6:23 pm

Now you've done it, that logic Carole, it's just not acceptable when jealousy and personal ego is involved and for reasons I don't know that is what this is about. (sarcasm intended) Personal ego, not the issues. I have one rule, I read before I note a story. I may not be inclined to comment on every thing I read, that doesn't mean I have not read or seen some of the nonsense that passes as news. That is of course, in the hands of the Care2 readership, it is they who must decide what is accepted as news or nonsense.

I have doubts that those in charge of Care2 are vested in being on one side of any issue.
 

Kit B. (276)
Saturday November 17, 2012, 6:26 pm

Thanks Ros, I can not send you green star...but I "hear ya".

Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it.
~Adolph Hitler

In war, truth is the first casualty. --- ~Aeschylus

Any excuse will serve a tyrant. --- ~Aesop
 

Just Carole (338)
Saturday November 17, 2012, 6:29 pm

Yeah, I have a problem with logic . . . I'm addicted to it.

 

Just Carole (338)
Saturday November 17, 2012, 6:33 pm

(Have to say this. I'm re-reading the comments from . (7) and they ARE reminding me of much spam -- usually promoting ED products -- I've gotten 30 points for reporting when I log into the Newly Submitteds in the morning.)

Maybe it's the screaming.

 

JL A. (275)
Saturday November 17, 2012, 6:47 pm
Kit, I could send Ros--it was deserving indeed! Carole, format is indeed like the spam I see and report.
 

Angelika R. (146)
Saturday November 17, 2012, 6:52 pm
well Carole, occasionally yesterdays news might still be news, at least I feel that way when viewing this article from 2009 ( I posted it tonight but had read it long before):
http://www.care2.com/news/member/153110506/3487052 ( War and Natural Gas: The Israeli Invasion and Gaza's Offshore Gas Fields) .
and when you read this article from September 23, 2012 it gives you food for thought what this war might be all about..( seems familiar?)
http://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-agrees-to-develop-gas-field-with-palestinians/
 

Angelika R. (146)
Saturday November 17, 2012, 6:58 pm
it would be so much nicer to develop those resources without Palestinians, wouldn't it... who likes to share.
 

Mitchell D. (130)
Saturday November 17, 2012, 6:58 pm
Very interesting view of things.
As Michael Parenti says, in "Democracy for the Few," the media, creates our sense of reality, and if we only get one side of a story we see that as "the facts."
On a side note, that is what Fox does with its Fauxnews, for those who swear by it, perhaps the Teabaggers.
 

Mitchell D. (130)
Saturday November 17, 2012, 7:00 pm
P.S.: An inference in the story is that the fighting was purposely started before Israeli elections, in order to effect the results thereof: This would be FAR from the first time a government used such a tactic.
 

Roxy H. (340)
Saturday November 17, 2012, 7:29 pm
Well. as far as being in the front page... my blm horse story hit the front page almost 6 days after i posted it... SO does that stand for rigged care2? I think it was because all of a sudden the dude on it was being investigated...and his name happens to be salazar..and the topic and who is on the headlines..and the number of people posting... like i tell jae all the time..if i get all my team chattering on one of his popcorn threads we could bump it onto the front page and watch the (.) trolls get on and laugh at him..but he is so cool and smooth... sigh... would have to find someone not so smooth...hmmmmm??? new target...think think...I am on vacation for 3 weeks ....hmmmm
 

Ros G. (90)
Saturday November 17, 2012, 7:55 pm
Thanks Kit B & JLA ...I had extremely good teachers - My parents were teenagers in Nazi Germany (non-jewish) always told me not to let anybody take my thinking. Adolph Hilter was right in what he said and give it a good splattering of hate - others will do the rest for you. We make our own ememies - the hate spruikers are alive and well. Peace and Happiness to you both.
 

Alexander Werner (53)
Saturday November 17, 2012, 8:17 pm
Just Carole, the person who wrote the story had no facts and a great desire to be heard. He is not the only one like that.

He wrote pro-Arab nonsense and for unknown reasons you decided to post it. It's OK and we do have a freedom of speech here on Care2. But nonsense remains nonsense, and Arab terrorists bombing civilians cities with rockets launched near schools and hospitals do constitute double war crimes - against both Israeli and Gaza civilian population.

It is unfortunate that Israel may have to come to Gaza to eliminate those Islamist monsters. when Israel left Gaza to give peace a chance, these situation with rockets was not what was expected from Palestinian Arabs.
 

Ros G. (90)
Saturday November 17, 2012, 10:51 pm
Happy Frog (7) I see you got your silver tongue from your friend BethS. For those that are unfamiliar with BethS, she is also a writer on C2NN under Society and Culture. BethS thinks that the Arabs have taken over Care2 and they are restricting her time in the "little yellow box" on the front page - which has made her a hate spruiker against the Arabs.
Happy Frog (7) I think the Nazi culture has rubbed off on you more so than me. My wonderful Jewish friends would normally get such a laugh out of this, but these are perilous times for their families and friends that still reside in Israel. You see they immigrated here (Australia) to get away from the all this bloodshed just as my parents did. Spruik your hate
 

Mm M. (449)
Saturday November 17, 2012, 11:14 pm
Dearest Carole...always love it when you post news, makes me think...Does take my mind off personal issues and puts it into perspective on what others deal with, then I truly feel so small in what I think I am going through. Hugs and Thank you!
 

Aaron Holmgren (3)
Sunday November 18, 2012, 12:47 am
Read Noam Chomsky to get a better understanding of this conflict.
 

Arild Warud (163)
Sunday November 18, 2012, 2:02 am
Thanks for posting this article "C",the international press is mostly hung up on the longer-range rockets Hamas has been using in selfdefense.Shame on Israel and those who support them,stop terrorising the Palestinians.
 

Ge M. (217)
Sunday November 18, 2012, 4:48 am
Just because someone is a rabbi does not mean that they have a better understanding from another country. All rabbi means is teacher and that they have spent years studying the Torah. Their interpretation will depend on who taught them. I thought that Carole knew all about Judaism from having "friends". Shame on you.
 

Ge M. (217)
Sunday November 18, 2012, 4:50 am
Hamas and its acolytes are committing crimes against humanity twice over. They are deliberately targeting Israeli civilians with their rockets and missiles, trying to kill as many of them as possible including women and children. They are also using their own people as human shields, having deliberately hidden their rocket launchers among Gaza's civilian infrastructure, thus deliberately exposing ordinary Gazans to the severe risk of being killed. In addition, the Hamas are committed not just to the destruction of Israel but also, by their own religious authority, to the genocide of the Jews, and indoctrinate their children accordingly into deranged, Nazi-style Jew-hatred.



Yet despite these Palestinian crimes against humanity and genocidal incitement British journalists have been outdoing themselves to blame Israel for what has happened. They have been making ever more grotesque claims that Israel's Prime Minister Netanyahu provoked this war to win the upcoming Israel general election, for example, or to scupper the Middle East peace process (which the Palestinians terminated, but what does a little fact like that matter when there's an Israeli character to assassinate?)



The idea that just like any other country in the world in such a situation Israel can no longer live under siege from thousands of rocket attacks (which as we saw today, backed by Iran can now reach Tel Aviv) is not even given house room. Instead these journalists seek to make the Israeli Prime Minister into a figure of quite cosmic evil, accused in effect of deliberately exposing his people to even more attacks, in addition to killing Palestinians, all for his own self interest. Truly there is a deep moral sickness in the British media (and also in the uniquely treasonous Israeli left-wing media, where some of these same claims are echoed).



Meanwhile, the Palestinians appear to be up to their old tricks in staging patently absurd theatrics to dupe credulous and lazy broadcasters into thinking they are transmitting pictures of Palestinians injured or killed by the wicked Israelis. They did it years ago with the infamous hoax over Mohammed al Dura -- the iconic Palestinian boy whose televised supposed killing in a barrage of Israeli gunfire incited terrorist atrocities across the world, but who not only miraculously showed no sign of injury whatever but after he was pronounced dead was filmed peeping through his fingers.



Now the BBC have fallen for a similar example of 'Pallywood'. Honest Reporting captures here the relevant footage. At 2:11 minutes in, a Palestinian in a beige jacket and black T-shirt, presumably injured in the aftermath of an Israeli airstrike, is picked up and taken away. Yet at 2:44 minutes, the same Palestinian has staged a remarkable recovery and walks insouciantly away.



The BBC has now said this sequence was part of a Reuter's report it transmitted in good faith. Guido Fawkes provides the BBC statement:



'To the best of our knowledge the pictures do not show any kind of 'staged' event - and were run in good faith. The footage shown by BBC News was edited from a longer sequence provided by the Reuters news agency in which the man in question is shown being lifted from the ground. He is then given attention at the roadside, before appearing later having recovered. We ran a shorter edit of those pictures, and would point out that some re-uses of our output by others online have compressed the sequence further. Steps have been taken to ensure any re-broadcast reflects the full sequence so that it is absolutely clear to our audiences.'



The fact is that broadcasters including the BBC have been falling for Pallywood scams for years, for two reasons. First, a number of the freelances involved in the news agencies supplying these materials are themselves Arab or Muslim partisans or Palestinians under the thumb of, or even supporters of, Hamas; and second, such is the western animus against Israel that western broadcasters simply don't see what is right there under their noses, that the Palestinian 'victims' in these staged tableaux are quite obviously play-acting.



One further thought about the malevolently warped reporting of this latest phase in the Arab and Islamic war against Israel. Among British reporters and commentators, there is a pronounced obsession with the numbers killed on either side. The three Israelis killed this morning were all but brushed aside by reporters hastening to tell us that (at that stage) eleven Palestinians had been killed.



The implication is of course as odious as it is irrational -- that Israel cannot be considered the victim of aggression unless more of its citizens die. It is also odious to suggest some kind of moral equivalence between those killed by acts of aggression in the cause of exterminating a country, and those who are killed by that country in its own self defence.



The implication of the numbers game is that there is no moral difference between aggression and defence. That's why so much of the reporting seeks to suggest a 'cycle of violence' or 'tit-for-tat' attacks. But there is no tit-for-tat cycle. There is aggression, and there is defence against aggression; there is attempted mass murder, and there is the attempt to prevent mass murder. Those who claim a 'tit-for-tat' cycle are effectively sanitising, and thus helping promote, mass murder.



But there's something even worse than this which I believe runs like a poisonous sewer beneath this bizarre numbers game. After all, this preoccupation with numerical imbalance in the casualty figures occurs in the reporting of no other conflict in the world. So what explains this obsession when it comes to Israel's military actions?



The sustained dismissal of Israeli victimhood by the British media surely represents a desire at some level of the British mind to stamp out once and for all the idea that Jews are victims. For over and over again, and expressed in a myriad different ways, you hear in British educated discourse an unmistakeable and savage fury: that these wailing Jews are always waving the shroud of the Holocaust in our faces; that they seem to think they have some kind of monopoly on suffering, for heaven's sake, as if the rest of us have no right to claim any suffering for ourselves; that they make themselves untouchable because of their wretched history; if only they would just shut up and go away and end these interminable accusations; and so of course we cannot allow them to be victims in Israel -- because unless we successfully recast them as latter-day Nazis, they will always be on our own conscience as the victims of us.



When you look in horror and astonishment at the British media's coverage of the onslaught upon Israel from Gaza and Israel's actions in self-defence - and from the messages I am receiving, there are still many, many decent Brits who are indeed appalled beyond measure by the eye-watering bias of the coverage from the BBC, Sky and much of the press - you might well conclude that more, much more, is actually going on here than standard knee-jerk prejudice or ignorance. This is the ugly sound of a very old score indeed that is being settled.

 

Ge M. (217)
Sunday November 18, 2012, 4:54 am
Notice that the attack was by Muslims from Libya using the weapons given to the Libyan Muslim Brotherhood by America is not mention nor the fact that this was an unwarranted attack on a Christian country. Why does the media not mention this? Their international silence has been deafening.

The situation in northern Mali remains worrying. The lack of security and the shortage of seed make it difficult to farm the land. To provide relief, the ICRC has distributed food to some 400,000 people.

People in the north of Mali are still having difficulty meeting their basic food needs even though rainfall has been adequate. “Because of the conflict situation, most people have not benefited from the growing season this year,” said Jean-Nicolas Marti, the head of the ICRC regional delegation for Mali and Niger. “As a result, they will still need emergency food aid for as long as it takes to develop new ways of supporting themselves.”

At a time when preparations for a military intervention are under way, the ICRC is drawing attention to the fact that any military operation would likely have a human cost. “These people already have difficulty obtaining food and basic services,” said Mr Marti. “We are asking all those who might take part in the conflict to consider the impact of such an operation.”

In cooperation with the Mali Red Cross, the ICRC is pressing on with a vast programme of food aid in the northern part of Mali and in the Douentza administrative subdivision of the Mopti region. To date, some 400,000 needy people have been given rice, beans, cooking oil and iodized salt. Thanks to these food supplies, people have reserves to see them through until the next harvest. The ICRC will continue to provide food aid until next month.

To help needy people, the ICRC has undertaken the so-called “de-stocking” of animal herds (local livestock are purchased and slaughtered, and the meat is then distributed to those in greatest need). So far, more than 10,000 head of a planned 15,000 have been “de-stocked” in the Kidal, Gao and Timbuktu areas.
 

Ge M. (217)
Sunday November 18, 2012, 4:58 am
And who speaks for the suffering of non-Muslims, in this case Pakistani Christians. I know that carole's close friend, mm, doesn't and is happy to accept it for these people. Personally, I hate it and speak out against it on a regular basis along with the attacks by Muslims on Muslim children such as pouring acid over the children or even a convert to Christianity.

The West sighed in relief when Rimsha Masih, the 14-year-old Christian girl arrested in Pakistan on August 16 for allegedly burning pages of the Quran, was finally released. Yet the West remains clueless concerning the graphic abuses—including rape and murder—Christian children in Pakistan routinely suffer, simply for being Christian. Consider two stories alone, both of which occurred at the same time Rimsha’s blasphemy ordeal was making headlines around the world.

On August 14, another Christian girl, 12-year-old Muqadas Kainat (which means “Holy Universe”) was ambushed in a field near her home in Sahawil by five Muslim men who “gang raped and murdered” her. At the time, her father was at a hospital visiting her sick mother. He and other family members began a frantic search, until a tip led them to the field where his daughter’s body lay. The postmortem revealed that she had been “gang raped and later strangled to death by five men.” Police, as usual, did not arrest anyone. As a Salem News report puts it, “Complicating matters is the fact that several Christian girls in this remote area have been raped and forced to both marry into the Muslim community and abandon their own religion, human rights groups report…. there is a history in this part of Pakistan according to the Christian community, of local authorities failing to investigate cases of rape or other violence against Christians, often for fear of influential Muslims or militants.”

Similarly, on August 20, an 11-year-old Christian boy, Samuel Yaqoob, went to the markets of Faisalabad to buy food for his family, never to return. According to Wilson Chowdhry, Chairman of the British Pakistani Christian Association, “After extensive searching his body was found near a drain in the Christian colony, bearing marks of horrific torture, with the murder weapon nearby. His nose, lips and belly had been sliced off, and his family could hardly recognize him because the body was so badly burnt. Some 23 wounds by a sharp weapon have beenShazia, one of the 12-year-old Christian girls enslaved, raped, and murdered by a Pakistani Muslim who wasn’t ever convicted. identified in the autopsy. When sending his body for an autopsy, police raised the possibility of sodomy. Parts of Pakistani culture have a strong homosexual pederast culture, and Christian and other minority boys are especially susceptible to rape and abuse because of the powerlessness of their community and their despised status. In one case fairly recently, a Christian boy was kidnapped, raped, tortured and killed by a police officer, his body similarly being dumped in a drain.”

These were just some of the stories concerning the sexual abuse and murder of Pakistan’s Christian children that occurred last August—even as the world stood in awe at the Rimsha Masih blasphemy case. Here are ten more anecdotes, chosen at random from the many former documented cases:
1. Nisha, a 9-year-old Christian girl was abducted by Muslims, gang-raped, murdered by repeated blows to her head, and then dumped into a canal (May, 2009).
2. Gulfam, another 9-year-old Christian girl, was raped by a Muslim man. Though not killed, she was left “in shock and in the throes of a physical and psychological trauma.” During her ordeal, her rapist told her “not to worry because he had done the same service to other young Christian girls” (Dec, 2010).
3. Lubna, a 12-year-old Christian girl was kidnapped, gang-raped, and murdered by a group of Muslims (Oct, 2010).
4. Kidnapped last Christmas Eve, a 12-year-old Christian girl known as “Anna” was gang raped for eight months, forcibly converted and then “married” to her Muslim attacker. After she escaped, instead of seeing justice done, “the Christian family is in hiding from the rapists and the police” (Oct, 2011).
5. After gang-raping a 13-year-old Christian girl, a band of Muslims came to her house when all male members were away working and “mercilessly” beat her pregnant aunt causing her to lose female twins to miscarriage: “They murdered our children, they raped our daughter. We have nothing left with us,” lamented an older family member. The police went on to accuse the 13-year-old raped girl of “committing adultery with three men” (Jun, 2012).
6. A Muslim man murdered a teenage Christian girl, Amariah, during an attempted rape: he had “grabbed the girl and, under the threat of a gun, tried to drag her away. The young woman resisted, trying to escape the clutches of her attacker, when the man opened fire and killed her instantly, and later tried to conceal the corpse” (Dec, 2011).
7. Muslims abducted a 14-year-old Christian girl, Mehek, at gunpoint in broad daylight from her parents’ house. One of her abductors declared he would “purify her” by making her “Muslim and my mistress” (Aug, 2011).
8. Shazia, a 12-year-old Christian girl, was enslaved, raped, and murdered by Chaudhry Naeem, a rich Muslim lawyer, who was acquitted. His wife and son had participated in abusing the child (Nov, 2010).
9. Nadia, a Christian girl who was abducted in 2001 when she was 15-years-old and forced to marry a Muslim, only recently returned to her Catholic family (Jan, 2012).
10. A powerful Muslim businessman had two Christian sisters kidnapped, forced to convert to Islam, and “married” to him (May, 2011).

In every one of these cases, Pakistani police either failed to act or sided with the rapists and murderers.

The above anecdotes represent a mere sampling of the documented atrocities committed against the children of Pakistan’s Christians, who amount for a miniscule 1.5% of the nation’s population. Then there are the stories that never make it to any media—stories of silent abuse that only the nameless, faceless victims know. For example, it took five years for the story of a 2-year-old toddler who was savagely raped because her Christian father refused to convert to Islam to surface. After undergoing five surgeries, her anatomy remains disfigured and she suffers from several permanent complications. Her family lives in fear and hiding.

How many Christian children in Pakistan are being mauled in silence, with their stories never surfacing?



And what animates this savagery? Discussing the aforementioned rape of 9-year-old Gulfam, local sources in Pakistan put it well: “It is shameful. Such incidents occur frequently. Christian girls are considered goods to be damaged at leisure. Abusing them is a right. According to the [Muslim] community’s mentality it is not even a crime. Muslims regard them as spoils of war.”

Indeed, here is how the late Majid Khadduri, “internationally recognized as one of the world’s leading authorities on Islamic law and jurisprudence,” explained the idea of human “spoils” in his War and Peace in the Law of Islam:


The term spoil (ghanima) is applied specifically to property acquired by force from non-Muslims. It includes, however, not only property (movable and immovable) but also persons, whether in the capacity of asra (prisoners of war) or sabi (women and children). … If the slave were a woman, the master was permitted to have sexual connection with her as a concubine.

From here, one can begin to understand the rabid fanaticism that possessed Pakistan’s Muslims concerning the Rifsha blasphemy case, which resulted in mass riots, Muslim threats to take the law in their own hands, and the dislocation of Christians, some of whom have been forced to live and worship in the wilderness: If infidel Christians, especially their children, are seen as mere “spoils” to be used and disposed of with impunity, certainly it must be intolerable for Muslims if one of these “sub-humans” dares to desecrate Islam’s holy book—the same book that ordains their inhuman status.

And herein is the true significance of the Rifsha Masih case: success is measured not in the fact that this one particular Christian child got away from the savageries of Islamic law and culture, but whether her ordeal will begin to open Western eyes to the terrors Pakistan’s Christian children routinely face.
 

Ge M. (217)
Sunday November 18, 2012, 5:04 am
This is one reason why the terrorists such as Hamas, Hezbollah and the Muslim Brotherhood will not allow peace with Israel, it also shows Islam for what it really is - for the pictures go to http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1037512/Pictured-The-TV-rabbit-preaching-hatred-telling-young-Muslims-kill-eat-Jews.html

An Islamic TV station using a Bugs Bunny lookalike to preach hatred to children has been slammed by religious leaders in the UK who fear it could brainwash vulnerable British children.

Assud the rabbit, who vows to 'kill and eat Jews' and glorifies the maiming of 'infidels' appears on Palestinian children's show, Tomorrow's Pioneers.

The rabbit is a number of characters who is punished by viewer's vote when he breaches Sharia law.

In one episode, Assud admits stealing money and is seen begging for mercy after young viewers and parents phone in demanding his hands are cut off as punishment.

Assud the rabbit is threatened with punishment for stealing on Palestinian children's show Tomorrow's Pioneers

At that point the 11-year-old presenter intervenes - and rules that the bunny should only have his ears severed because he has repented.

The rabbit is played by an actor in fancy dress and is one of the main characters on the show broadcast in Gaza by the al-Aqsa channel - known as Hamas TV.

Religious leaders across the UK have today spoken out against the controversial show which can be viewed via satellite.

The programme is also easily viewed on internet sites such as YouTube, sparking fears that British children could be subjected to the radical Islamic message.

The Association of Muslim Schools, which represents the UK's 143 Muslim schools, said it was opposed to any shows that incite violence.

Spokesman Dr Mohamed Mukadam said: 'It goes without saying that any programme which promotes the killing or injuring of human beings is wrong.

Assud encourages children to 'eat and kill Jews' and preaches hatred

'Regardless of religion, shows that incite or inspire others to inflict violence of any kind should be condemned.

'Such shows are against the teachings of the Prophet Muhammad, and we would urge people of all ages not to watch them.'

Set up as a regional station prior to the Palestinian elections in January 2006, al-Aqsa TV now airs on a satellite slot.

It broadcasts what many call a mixture of news of Islamic propaganda, but has picked up a substantial following across the Arabic-speaking world.

Tomorrow's Pioneers was first aired in April 2007, and features young host Saraa Barhoum and her co-host, a large costumed animal.

The show originally featured a Mickey Mouse-style character called Farfur who urged children to fight against the Jewish community and form a world Islamic state.

Farfur was later replaced by a bumble bee called Nahoul, who told viewers to 'follow the path of Islam, of martyrdom and of the Mujahideen'.

He was 'martyred' earlier this year and replaced by Assud, who tells children in his first episode: 'I, Assud, will get rid of the jews, Allah willing, and I will eat them up.'

UK religious leaders fear young British children could be subjected to the rabbit's hate teachings

In a discussion with 11-year-old host Saraa Barhoum, the young viewers are referred to as 'soldiers'.

Assud asks Saraa: 'We are all martyrdom-seekers, are we not?'.

To which she replies: 'Yes, we are all ready to sacrifice ourselves for the sake of our homeland.'

The phone-in show accepts calls from children as young as nine on topics about life in Palestine.

During one show broadcast in February, Assud vows to kill and eat all Danish people over the cartoon images of the Prophet Muhammad which appeared in a newspaper.

He also pledges to assassinate the illustrator and Saraa also agrees that she would martyr herself for the cause of Palestine.

Saraa, who has seven brothers and sisters, was invited to host the show after entering a singing competition.

But speaking last year, she defended the programme - and insisted it was not responsible for spreading extremism.

She said: 'We are not terrorists. We do not support terrorism. We are normal people, but we are defending our homeland.

'The Israelis hit next door to my house with a shell. I was wounded on my feet and my little brother Youssef was wounded in the legs.

'We, as Muslims, are against suicide bombers. We are against the death of civilians on all sides. We are only the enemy of those who took our land and kill us every day.'

The show is regularly translated and posted online by The Middle East Media Research Institute, an independent media monitoring group based in the United States.

Al-Aqsa was today was unavailable for comment.

 

Ge M. (217)
Sunday November 18, 2012, 5:06 am
The Qur'an has a wide range of imagery and insults for those who refuse to believe in Islam. They are likened to cattle (camels, cows, sheep), a goat-herd, dogs, asses, etc. (cf. Surah 25:44, 2:171, 7:175-177, 62:5), but in some passages it is much worse than that:


According to the Koran, a non-Muslim is less than nothing: "To Allah, there are no animals viler than those who do not believe and remain unbelievers" (Sura 8:55). That is why it is necessary to Islamize them by force and by humiliation. And those who resist Islam and its founder must be chastised, according to the Koran: "Here is the fate of those who fight Allah and his messenger: you will put them to death or you will make them suffer the torture of the cross; you will cut their hands and their feet alternately. They will be driven from the country" (Sura 5:33). And, since the Muslims are realists, they take into account circumstances and make, accordingly, temporary peace or war: "Do not display cowardice, and do not call the infidels to peace when you are superior to them" (Sura 47:35).
In a word, as the Koran is the word of Allah for all Muslims, it holds for all times and all peoples until the end of the world. It must be applied according to the indications that Allah himself gives to his believers. This logically explains what is today happening in the Sudan, in Algeria, and in numerous Islamic countries. To idealize Islam is the greatest wrong that one can do to the Muslims themselves.

(Source: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Rhodes/3543/reals.htm)

The statement that "Unbelievers are worse than the viles beasts" is topped yet again by another verse:


Those who reject (Truth) among the People of the Book and among the Polytheists, will abide in hell-fire, they are the worst of creatures. (Sura 98:6)
The worst of anything God ever created, whether it be the unclean pigs, or bacteria, cancer cells or the AIDS virus. Unbelievers, even those among the People of the Book, are worse than that.

The Qur'an breeds contempt for anyone who is not a Muslim. If statements like this would be printed anywhere outside of the Qur'an, the authors would be dragged before the courts for hate-speech.

The consequence of such statements quickly is: If such people are not really human beings, but are on a level of wild and vile beasts, then you do not need to treat them as human beings. Psychologically it is the same dynamic as used by Nazi Germany in regard to the Jews. First calling them sub-human (to remove the barrier that is naturally in every person's conscience against killing another human being), and then seeking to eradicate them.

In fact, Islam has the clear rule that a Muslim is not to be killed for murder of a non-Muslim:


Narrated Abu Juhaifa:

I asked 'Ali "Do you have anything Divine literature besides what is in the Qur'an?" Or, as Uyaina once said, "Apart from what the people have?" 'Ali said, "By Him Who made the grain split (germinate) and created the soul, we have nothing except what is in the Quran and the ability (gift) of understanding Allah's Book which He may endow a man, with and what is written in this sheet of paper." I asked, "What is on this paper?" He replied, "The legal regulations of Diya (Blood-money) and the (ransom for) releasing of the captives, and the judgment that no Muslim should be killed in Qisas (equality in punishment) for killing a Kafir (disbeliever)." (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 9, Book 83, Number 50; cf. Volume 1, Book 3, Number 111; Volume 4, Book 52, Number 283)

Narrated Ali ibn AbuTalib:

Qays ibn Abbad and Ashtar went to Ali and said to him: Did the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) give you any instruction about anything for which he did not give any instruction to the people in general?

He said: No, except what is contained in this document of mine. Musaddad said: He then took out a document. Ahmad said: A document from the sheath of his sword.

It contained: The lives of all Muslims are equal; they are one hand against others; the lowliest of them can guarantee their protection. Beware, a Muslim must not be killed for an infidel, nor must one who has been given a covenant be killed while his covenant holds. If anyone introduces an innovation, he will be responsible for it. If anyone introduces an innovation or gives shelter to a man who introduces an innovation (in religion), he is cursed by Allah, by His angels, and by all the people. (Sunan Abu Dawud, Book 39, Number 4515)

Narrated Abdullah ibn Amr ibn al-'As:

The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: A believer will not be killed for an infidel. If anyone kills a man deliberately, he is to be handed over to the relatives of the one who has been killed. If they wish, they may kill, but if they wish, they may accept blood-wit. (Sunan Abu Dawud, Book 39, Number 4491)

 

Ge M. (217)
Sunday November 18, 2012, 5:08 am
Israel has every right to take action against the relentless terror meted out to its civilian population
By Peter Mullen

I have just been reading the latest bulletin from the Hamas Propaganda Bureau – sorry, I mean of course the BBC – who inform us that Israeli forces have killed “ … eleven Palestinians, mainly militants, but also children.” The general tone of the report makes it sound as if the Israel Defence Force set out wantonly to begin a new massacre of the innocents. Regrettably, children will be killed if they have to share their schools with rockets and stashes of high explosives. The truth is that Israel’s military strikes were belated retaliation for the Hamas bombardment by 800 rockets this year and 120 during the last week.

The entire population of southern Israel lives in constant terror. And if we’re talking about the suffering of children, imagine what it’s like to be a little boy or girl in small southern towns and villages such as Sderot, where they have half a minute’s warning to sprint to the air-raid shelters, and where the schools are closed for weeks at a time. I haven’t been to southern Israel, but I have visited the north, near the border with Lebanon, on days when Hizbollah were firing Katyusha rockets at the civilian population. To have to live under such a threat is to know the meaning of terror.

The recent increase in violence was provoked by the Israelis’ killing of Ahmed Said Khalil Jabari, military leader of Hamas: a man complicit in the kidnapping of the Israeli soldier Shalit and responsible for most of the terrorist acts launched from Gaza over the last 10 years. He himself once boasted that the men under his control were responsible for the deaths of 569 Israeli civilians. Yesterday this dead terrorist was praised by the leaders of Hizbollah and declared a martyr by representatives of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard.

These recent eruptions of violence are of course only the latest in a long war of attrition which has been going on since the foundation of the State of Israel in 1948. The country is surrounded by its enemies. Four times since 1948 these enemies have made war on Israel.

No doubt the Palestinians have legitimate grievances coupled with territorial aspirations. Israel has generally understood these grievances, and time and again tried to meet its opponents halfway. For instance, I remember the talks between Yasser Arafat and the Israeli prime minister brokered by the US in which the sides came close to a two-state solution to the problem. Arafat smiled agreeably, got on the plane back to the Middle East and immediately declared a second intifada, a violent uprising against Israel.

To be sure, this is a labyrinthine mess, but beyond the ceaseless argy-bargy there is one real and pressing question: wouldn’t any sovereign state take strong action in response to the relentless terror meted out to its civilian population?
 

Ge M. (217)
Sunday November 18, 2012, 5:10 am
Why Muslims hate Jews

First of all, it must be understood that traditional Muslims hate all non-Muslims in general. However, they hate Jews more than anybody else on Earth.

In Islam’s oral tradition, it is believed that killing one Jew is equal to the killing of fifty non-Jewish unbelievers. Every muslims traditionally learn from the mullahs and seniors—that they must hate Jews more than any other infidels. All muslims (good or bad) do believe that Jews are the worst enemy of Muslims and they are advised to take cautions when dealing with Jews.

Remember that American reporter (Daniel Pearl) who was the first victim of sensational beheading by Al-Qaeda in Pakistan (by Khaled Shaik) in 2002, right after America removed Talibans? Early 2011 (during uprising in Egypt), Lora Logan CBS reporter in Egypt was brutally raped and tortured because they thought she was a Jew, although she was not actually a Jew? What it’s telling us? There is no question that every muslim child is taught about the danger from Jews universally around the Muslims world. I never heard any muslim who can deny that Muslims universally fear and hate Jews most, period.

I do believe, Jews in the Middle East know it very well. But, Jews residing in the western world, especially Jews living in the USA do not quite understand how much Muslims hate them, and it is baffling to me that many Jews make excuses for the terrible behavior of Muslims. Many Jewish rabbis and Jewish leaders deliberately join their hands in support of the so called “Inter-faith” meeting which is nothing but Islamic Taqiyya only to fool the Jews.

Perhaps Jews do not know how this special hatred for Jews is rooted in the Islamic theology and history. It alarms me to see Islamic jihad and draconian sharia advancing globally, and I can see more Jews as allies to them. By not taking a stand against Islamists, Jews are emboldening their agenda. I am writing this to wake up Jews who are under the delusion that Islam is a religion that is fundamentally friendly to them.

This hatred has nothing to do with land claims about Israel, which are false claims made throughout the Muslim world. The Muslim hatred of Jews pre-dates the existence of the modern state of Israel by some 1400 years and is based on verses in the Qur’an and in the hadiths. From earliest childhood on, Muslim youngsters are brainwashed to believe that Jews are the worst enemy of Allah, with Christians, polytheists, and Hindus coming next. The rationale for this hatred is that everyone must accept Islam, since Muslims believe that it is superior to all other religions and Islam is the only true religion on Earth.

When Muhammad was still weak, with only 75 to 100 followers, and was trying to convince the Jews they should accept him as the latest Biblical prophet, he lavished praise on them and reframed Biblical verses to flatter them. Thus, he chose Jerusalem as his qibla, the geographical direction to use when praying. Later, he changed it to Mecca because Jews did not respond to his religious claims, and he was furious with them [1].

While trying to charm the Jews into accepting his new religion, Muhammed came out with sweet verses like this, showing acceptance of other religions:

Surah 2.62 Surely those who are Jews, Christians, and Sabians, whoever believes in Allah and the last day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve.

Jews should not be fooled by the peaceful verses Muhammed introduced at the beginning of his career in Mecca, when he was politically weak. As soon as he became stronger, he made statements of war, which canceled out (abrogated) the earlier verses.

Islamic Supremacy

The belief in Islam’s supremacy originated from the Qur’an [2]. Here is a sampling of verses from the Qur’an stating that Islam and Muslims are superior to all other religions and people, and that everyone must be forced to accept Islam.
Surah 3:110 - Ye are the best of peoples, evolved for mankind, enjoining what is right, forbidding what is wrong, and believing in Allah. If only the People of the Book [Christians and Jews] had faith, it were best for them: among them are some who have faith, but most of them are perverted transgressors.
Surah 98:6 - Verily, those who disbelieve (in the religion of Islâm, the Qur’ân and Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him)) from among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) and Al-Mushrikűn will abide in the Fire of Hell. They are the worst of creatures.
Surah 98:7 - Verily, those who believe [in the Oneness of Allâh, and in His Messenger Muhammad (Peace be upon him)) including all obligations ordered by Islâm] and do righteous good deeds, they are the best of creatures.
Surah 3:85 - If anyone desires a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted.
Surah 9:5 - Kill non-Muslims wherever you find them. Ambush, seize, and capture them. If they convert to Islam and pray and contribute to the cause of Islam, let them go.
Surah 48:16 - Non-Muslims must convert to Islam or they will be killed.



The following verses from the Qur’an are specifically aimed at Jews. Since Jews were the first religious group to refuse conversion – the first Muslim failure – the rage against them is intense.
Surah 5:60 …Those (Jews) who incurred the Curse of Allah and His Wrath, those He transformed into monkeys and swine, those who worshipped false deities.
Surah 2:61 Abasement and humiliation were brought down upon them, [the Jews] and they became deserving of Allah's wrath; this was so because they disbelieved in the communications of Allah and killed the prophets unjustly; this was so because they disobeyed and exceeded the limits.
Surah 2:65-66 We said to the Jews who transgressed in the matter of the Sabbath: "Be ye apes, despised and rejected.”
Surah 2:96 And verily, you will find them (the Jews) the greediest of mankind for life and (even greedier) than those who ascribe partners to Allah…
Surah 4:161 Jews will suffer a painful chastisement because they lend money.
Surah 5:12-13 Allah made a covenant with the children of Israel , ..But on account of their breaking their covenant We cursed them and made their hearts hard;… and you shall always discover treachery in them excepting a few of them;
Surah 5:70 Jews called some of the messengers of God liars and some they slew.



Hadiths Calling For The Killing Of Jews (Hadiths are collections of the sayings and deeds of Muhammed and Sahih hadith indicates one that is pure and authentic and recognized by all Islamic scholars)

Kill The Jew Behind The Stone:

Sahih Bukhari, 4:52:177, narrated by Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle says, "The Jews will fight with you, and you will be given victory over them so that a stone will say, 'O Muslim! There is a Jew behind me; kill him!' [This story is important enough to Muslims to be noted several times in the hadiths of Sahih Muslim]

Eradications of Jews from Arabia

Book 019, Number 4366, narrated by 'Umar b. al-Khattib: He heard the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) say: “I will expel the Jews and Christians from the Arabian Peninsula and will not leave any but Muslim.” [This single Sahih hadith tells everything about Islamic intolerance]

The Assassinations of Jews, as noted in various hadiths

Once Muhammed realized he could not cajole or force Jews to convert, he decided to annihilate all Jewish tribes from the vicinity of Medina. He then started a systematic elimination of most of the Jewish leaders and intellectuals who were resisting his jihad or who were obstructing his plan of converting everybody to Islam. Below is the list of assassinated Jewish leaders and intellectuals:
1.Ibn Sunayna, a Jewish man who was murdered simply because he was a Jew.
2.Abu Afak, a 120-year-old Jewish poet, murdered while he slept.
3.Asma bte Marwan, mother of 5 children, murdered while she slept, (described below in a sahih Hadith).
4.A slave women, mother of two children, murdered while she slept.
5.A one-eyed shepherd, murdered while he slept.
6.A very old woman, literally ripped in half by Muslims who captured her on a raid.
7.A slave girl, who was murdered because she poked fun at Muhammad.
8.Abdullah bin Ubayy who was killed by a disciple whom the Prophet permitted to tell a lie (“can I say something untrue, O Prophet?”…. “Yes, you may say that for Allah’s cause”) to win his (Ubayy) confidence to become a friend before killing him.
9.Ka’ab bin Ashraf a prominent Jewish leader in Medina who was killed by deceptive technique, (described below).

Many more people who suffered a similar fate can be added here. I choose not to list them here because of space limitations. Sacred writings telling how the Prophet Muhammad eliminated Jews from the vicinity of Medina in his early raids. I have included only a few below.

The Massacre of Banu Qurayza, a Jewish tribe

According to the “Sirat-a-Rasul” by Ibn Ishaq [1], the most famous and earliest written biography of Prophet Muhammad, page 464, the story goes as follows: After the Battle of the Ditch, when the coalition force of Quraish left the battle field, prophet Muhammad attacked the last of the large Jewish tribes of Medina, the Banu Qurayza. The Banu Qurayza Jewish tribe was attacked for not supporting prophet Muhammad when the Quraisha’s coalition force from Mecca attacked Medina (the Battle of the Trench) to take revenge for Muhammad’s repeated highway attacks on Quraish business caravans. After the withdrawal of the coalition force the Jews were isolated. Hazrat Ali (one of the Muhammad’s four best disciples) swore that he would never stop until he either stormed their garrisons or was killed.

After a continuous siege of 25 days, the Qurayza Jews surrendered to Prophet Muhammad unconditionally. Muhammad ordered that the men be handcuffed, while the women and children were isolated in confinement. Then the apostle went out to the market of Medina (which is still its market today) and dug trenches in it. Then he sent for them and struck off their heads in those trenches as they were brought out to him in batches. This went on until the apostle made an end of them. Among them was the enemy of Allah, Huyayy b. Akhtab and Ka`b b. Asad, their chief, and they were brought with their hands bound to their neck by a rope. [Ibn Ishaq, p. 462-64; Tabari vol. 8, p. 34].

“Merciful” Allah in the Qur’an Supported The Massacre of the Banu Qurayzas
Surah 33:26 And He brought those of the People of the Book [the Jewish people of Banu Qurayza] who supported them from their fortresses and cast terror into their hearts, some of them you slew (beheaded) and some you took prisoners (captive).
Surah 33:27 And He made you heirs of their lands, their houses, and their goods, and of a land which ye had not frequented (before). And Allah has power over all things.

The Qur’anic Tafsir Supported the Banu Qurayza Massacre (tafsir means commentary or scholarly analysis): Maulana A. Yousuf Ali stated: “The men of the Banu Qurayza were slain; the women were sold as captives of war (booty); and their lands and properties were distributed or divided among the Muhajirs.” [Yousuf Ali’s tafsir for Sura Ahzab].

The Massacre of the Jewish tribe in Khybar, (a city north of Medina)

The Prophet offered the Fajr Prayer near Khybar when it was still dark and then said, "Allahu-Akbar! Khybar is destroyed, for whenever we approach a (hostile) nation (to fight), then evil will be the morning for those who have been warned." Then the inhabitants of Khybar came out running on the roads. The prophet had their warriors killed, their offspring and woman taken as captives. Safiyyah was amongst the captives. She first came in the share of Dahya Alkali but later on she belonged to the prophet. The prophet made her manumission as her 'Mahr'. Muhammad was sixty (60) when he married Safiyyah, a young girl of seventeen. She became his eighth wife. [Narrated by Anas: Sahih Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 59, Number 512].

Allah’s Messenger Then Occupied Khybar

Ibn Umar (Allah be pleased with him) reported: Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) handed over the land of Khybar (on the condition) of the share of produce of fruits and harvest, and he also gave to his wives every year one hundred wasqs: eighty wasqs of dates and twenty wasqs of barley. When 'Umar became the caliph, he distributed the (lands and trees) of Khybar, and gave option to the wives of Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) to earmark for themselves the land and water or stick to the wasqs (that they got) every year. They differed in this matter. Some of them opted for land and water, and some of them opted for wasqs every year. 'A'isha and Hafsa were among those who opted for land and water. [Sahih Muslim: Book 010, Number 3759].

If anyone is looking for a simple, concrete reason for prophet Muhammad’s attack on all the affluent Jewish tribes that lived in Arabia in the seventh century, such as the Banu Qurayza, Banu Nadir, and Khybar, then he does not need to look any further than the Qur’anic verse 33:27. “And He made you heirs of their lands, their houses, and their goods, and of a land which ye had not frequented (before). And Allah has power over all things.” As it happened, the Meccans and their allies withdrew from seizing Medina at the Battle of Trench without allowing Muslims to take their wealth. This prevented Muhammad from rewarding his three thousand jihadis. He needed lots of wealth to reward his jihadis. So the prophet confiscated the wealth of Jews to satisfy his greedy jihadis! He was following a bad custom of winner-take-all in seventh-century Arabia. It is a pity that he could not rise above this, as the so-called prophet for all of the world, the “last and the best” of all the prophets!

Using Barbaric Torture To Seize Hidden Gold Treasure

Prophet Muhammad accused Safiyyah's husband, Kinanah, and his cousin of hiding some of their properties in contravention of the terms of surrender. He was especially angered that Kinanah had hidden the wealth (worth about ten thousand Dinars; approximately US$ 500,000) that he received from his marriage to a B. Nadir girl (Safiyyah). A renegade Jew divulged the secret of Kinanah's hidden gold treasures. That Jew went and fetched the hidden treasures. Kinanah and his cousin were promptly arrested by the Muslims. Then Kinanah b. al-Rabi, Safiyyah's husband, was brought to Muhammad. Muhammad charged him with hiding his wealth in some underground storage. Kinanah refused to surrender it; so the Messenger of God gave orders concerning him to al-Zubayr b. al-'Awwam, saying, "Torture him until you root out what he has." Al-Zubayr kept twirling his firestick in his breast until Kinanah almost expired; then the Messenger of God gave him to Muhammad b. Maslamah, who beheaded him to avenge his brother, Mahmud b. Maslamah. William Muir, an eminent nineteenth century Scottish orientalist, [6] writes that then the heads of the two chiefs (Kinanah and his cousin) were severed. Because of the so-called treachery by the Jews for allegedly hiding their treasures, Muhammad now allowed the Muslim Jihadists to take possession of the women and children of the Jews of Khaybar. To this day, Muslims taunt Jews with the ancient memory of the taking of Khaybar. [Ibn Ishak, al-Tabari vol.8 p.122]

Deception And Assassination of the Prominent Jewish Leader, Ka’b bin Al-Ashraf

There are various hadith narrations regarding the assassination of Ka'b Bin Ashraf, a prominent Jewish leader in Medina who resisted conversion. He was so menacing to the Muslims that he was called “the evil genius of the Jews.” Salah Bukhari 4:52:271, narrated by Jabir; Sahih Bukhari 5:59:369, narrated by Jabir bin 'Abdullah; Sahih Bukhari 7:67:427, narrated by Zahdam. I have included just one such hadiths below.

Narrated by Jabir bin 'Abdullah: “Allah's Apostle said, "Who would kill Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf as he has harmed Allah and His Apostle?" Muhammad bin Maslama (got up and) said, "I will kill him." So, Muhammad bin Maslama went to Ka'b and said, "I want a loan of one or two Wasqs of food grains." Ka'b said, "Mortgage your women to me." Muhammad bin Maslama said, "How can we mortgage our women, and you are the most handsome among the Arabs?" He said, "Then mortgage your sons to me." Muhammad said, "How can we mortgage our sons, as the people will abuse them for being mortgaged for one or two Wasqs of food grains? It is shameful for us. But we will mortgage our arms to you." So, Muhammad bin Maslama promised him that he would come to him next time. They (Muhammad bin Maslama and his companions) came to him as promised and murdered him. Then they went to the Prophet and told him about it.” [Sahih Bukhari 3:45:687].

The Killing of a Jewish poetess for Taunting The Prophet of Islam

Asma bint Marwan was the mother of 5 infants. She was of B. Umayya b. Zayd. When Abu 'Afak had been killed she displayed disaffection. 'Abdullah b. al-Harith b. al-Fudayl from his father said that she was married to a man of B. Khatma called Yazid b. Zayd [sic]. Blaming Islam and its followers she said: I despise B. Salik, and al-Nabit 'Auf, and B. al-Khazraj. She wrote a poem despising prophet Muhammad. When the apostle heard what she had said, he said, 'Who will rid me of Marwan's daughter?' Umayr b. Adiy al-Khatmi who was with him heard him, and that very night he went to her house and killed her. Umayr, the assassin, pierced her chest (heart) with his sword while she was asleep (It was the middle of the night, and one of her babies was sucking at her breast for milk.).

In the morn­ing he came to the apostle and told him what he had done and he said, “You have helped God and His apostle, O 'Umayr.” When he asked if he would have to bear any evil consequences, the apostle said, “Two goats won't butt their heads about her,” so 'Umayr went back to his people.

Now there was a great commotion among B. Khatma that day about the affair of Bint Marwan. She had five sons, and when 'Umayr went to them from the apostle, he said, “I have killed Bint Marwan, O sons of Khatma. Withstand me if you can; don't keep me waiting.” That was the first day that Islam became powerful among B. Khatma; before that, those who were Muslims concealed the fact. The first of them to accept Islam was 'Umayr b. Adiy who was called 'the Reader', and 'Abdullah b. Aus and Khuzayma b. Thabit. The day after Bint Marwan was killed the men of B. Khatma became Muslims because they saw the power of Islam. Siraat-e-Rasul by Ibn Ishaq, p. 676. [This is a glaring example how Islam was spread in Arabia, very “peacefully” indeed.]

The Assassination of Abu Rafi,’ another prominent Jewish leader

Abu Rafi’ used to hurt Allah’s Apostle and help his enemies against him. He lived in his castle in the land of Hijaz. So this was probably for military reasons. Tabari says, "The reason for his being killed was, it is said that he used to take the part of Ka’b b. al-Ashraf against the Messenger of God." [Bukhari vol. 5 book 59 no.371 p.251]

The Blood Money System in Islamic Sharia Shows Contempt for Jews

As per Islamic Sharia, there is a concept of “blood money” and this draconian compensatory justice system is still practiced in Saudi Arabia (According to the Wall Street Journal, April 9, 2002). Under this system, if a person has been killed or caused to die by another, the latter has to pay “blood money” or compensation, as follows:

100,000 riyals if the victim is a Muslim man

50,000 riyals if a Muslim woman

50,000 riyals if a Christian man

25,000 riyals if a Christian woman

6,666 riyals if a Hindu (or idolaters) man

3,333 riyals if a Hindu (or idolaters) woman

That is, a Muslim man’s life is worth 33 times that of a Hindu woman.

Jews are not eligible for blood money compensation: Sharia is silent on the blood money for a Jew. The above authentic blood money chart practicing in Saudi Arabia (The cradle of Islam) has not included Jews; although, it has included all other most famous organized religions of the world. Reason is very clear; Jews do not deserve any blood money. Because, Jews are the arch enemies of Allah. Actually, it is negative blood money. That is, if any Muslim kills a Jew, the killer gets reward in this world and in the hereafter. Every time, whenever we read Palestinian kills a Jew—what do we read? The entire Muslim ummah praises the killer (muslim killer I mean). The Palestinian authority even rewards the killer. If the Muslim killer kills a Jewish child, he receives more accolades!

Conclusion

This article has delved into the most sensitive historical incidents that happened at the very start of Islam. Naturally, to understand history correctly, we must rely upon the most relevant sources: the Qur’an, the Hadiths, and Islamic history as recorded by respected biographers of the prophet Muhammad. In this article we have used authentic information from the above sources most scrupulously. We have used verses from the Qur’an, a number of related hadiths as found in Sahih al-Bukhari, Sahih Muslim, Sahih Tabari, and passages from the life of prophet Muhammad as recorded by Ibn Ishaq in his work, Sirat Rasul Allah, available in the abridged edition of Ibn Hisham, and translated by A. Guillaume under the title The Life of Muhammad. This is believed to be the earliest written account of the prophet Muhammad's life, making it regarded as the most reliable.

A careful search did not show up any information about the extermination of Jews from Arabia that contradicts what I have mentioned in this article. Scores of Sahih (pure and authentic) hadiths continuously brag shamelessly, without any shred of remorse, about how “heroically” the prophet of Islam eliminated all the “scoundrel Jews” from Medina. For almost fourteen hundred years all the vicious Qur’anic verses and Sahih hadiths that are used here were respected and believed by all the faithful Muslim believers without any question. Not one pious Muslim, respected Mullah, Maoulana, or any other prominent Islamic scholar ever questioned their authenticity or validity in Islam. Rather, all Muslim authorities readily believed in the authenticity of these verses and used them regularly to write thousands of books celebrating and eulogizing the prophet of Islam.

According to Islamic Sharia and Koranic teachings—Jews have no right to live in this Earth of Allah! Christians, and all other un-believers (Hindus and idolaters) are less human than Muslims and their rights are less than the rights of Muslims. This is the very reason why pure Muslims (al-Qaeda jihadis, Mullahs, Imams) earnestly believe that it is the most sacred duty of the Muslims to correct, convert, or kill all non-Muslims/infidels to purify this earth, which belongs only to Allah.

I have no idea how Muhammed can be called ‘merciful’ and Islam can be called the ‘religion of peace.’ Hopefully, my former experiences within the Muslim world will arm people of good will with the necessary truths to fight this growing evil. Jews in particular must free themselves from the delusion that Islam is not a threat to them. They are a central target of Islamic annihilation. It is my heartfelt desire that militant Islam be stopped in its quest for global domination and that Jews and other non-Muslims can live in safety.
 

Just Carole (338)
Sunday November 18, 2012, 5:21 am

If you read the article, Gillian, you will see that, in an effort to bring certain events to light, Rabbi Waskow presented news from several sources (and, in fact, his comments are not the majority of the article:

From Rabbi Waskow:

"In this report to readers and members of The Shalom Center, I will be filling in that back story with reports from the Israeli and Palestinian press. Then I will include a brief and trenchant comment by Uri Avnery, veteran Israeli peace activist and former member of Knesset who has been committed to a two-state peace settlement of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict for four decades. And finally, I will be including a brief letter of my own, written to American officials of the Jewish National Fund. The JNF had written American Jews (including me) with an appeal to carry out certain Jewish values, which in their reading required strong support of the Israeli strikes against Gaza. I wrote to explore what the full meaning of those Jewish values might be."

 

Just Carole (338)
Sunday November 18, 2012, 5:34 am

After having read several of your endless diatribes -- all of which propagate hatred against Muslims, portray only the vilest behavior of those practicing Sharia law, and single out selective passages (usually out of context) from the Qur'an . . .

And, coupled with this blatant hatred, you and others also believe that there is no way to negotiate with these murderous Muslims . . .

If that is all true, I shudder to think of what you would suggest be done to resolve this conflict.

And please try to remember that we are on Care2, which has a written code of conduct which we all agreed to follow. As such, your personal attacks are a violation.

I, and I'm sure many other readers here, would appreciate it if you would address your remarks to the subject of this post.

Thank you, Gillian.

 

Just Carole (338)
Sunday November 18, 2012, 5:55 am

And, if you are going to post lengthy articles from publications (like the above, from Islam Watch), it is common courtesy to put that part of the comment in quotes, and give credit to the original writer, Gillian.

Otherwise, it is plagiarism.

 

paul m. (93)
Sunday November 18, 2012, 5:57 am

Noted
 

Just Carole (338)
Sunday November 18, 2012, 6:01 am

Unbelievable.



 

JL A. (275)
Sunday November 18, 2012, 6:08 am
"Thank you Carole for striving to provide a forum for factual exploration of this "contentious issue." In my lifetime, some issues trigger passionate and emotional response from one side or at points in time; this is one where I cannot recall a point in time without such emotion and passion from all sides.

I give the Rabbi kudos for honing in on one area I suspect most all could agree on: this is a 'life and death' issue. He then seeks clarity for definitions of the two relevant terms (life, death).....
don't know, I can only hope it might."
According to http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Plagiarism:
"The act of appropriating the literary composition of another author, or excerpts, ideas, or passages therefrom, and passing the material off as one's own creation.

Plagiarism is theft of another person's writings or ideas. Generally, it occurs when someone steals expressions from another author's composition and makes them appear to be his own work. Plagiarism is not a legal term; however, it is often used in lawsuits. Courts recognize acts of plagiarism as violations of Copyright law, specifically as the theft of another person's Intellectual Property. Because copyright law allows a variety of creative works to be registered as the property of their owners, lawsuits alleging plagiarism can be based on the appropriation of any form of writing, music, and visual images."
 

Just Carole (338)
Sunday November 18, 2012, 6:16 am

This article was presented in an effort to illuminate the call for peaceful resolution, something that will be necessary in order for all sides to survive.

These continuous hateful responses (most of which consist of copy/pasting someone else's opinion), concentrating on placing blame, attacking another religion, as well as individual commenters, are off-topic.

Are you unaware that Care2 also has Muslim members?

I will not contribute to your attempts to sidetrack the intention of this submission by replying to your off-topic baiting.

 

Alexander Werner (53)
Sunday November 18, 2012, 6:44 am
Carole, saying that "This article was presented in an effort to illuminate the call for peaceful resolution, something that will be necessary in order for all sides to survive. " is a joke, right?

You quoted some unknown moron, who obviously either has no clues on what is going on, or lies through the teeth. The only reason you posted his nonsense is to stir up passions against Israel, defending itself against Islamist terrorists.

Now, claiming that siding with Israel in its war against Islamists terrorists will result in offending Muslim members of Care2 is a racist statement, lumping together the Moderate Care2 Muslim Members and the worst religious Hamas terrorists together, just because they share the name of their religion!

You better apologize to them for that statement. I hope you didn't mean what you said. Muslims are one thing, and Islamist terrorists another, please do not insult all Muslims because of some bad apples.
 

Alexa R. (333)
Sunday November 18, 2012, 6:59 am
Bob Algeron (44)
Sunday November 18, 2012, 6:44 am

I hope you didn't mean what you said. Muslims are one thing, and Islamist terrorists another, please do not insult all Muslims because of some bad apples.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

So do I ...
 

Ge M. (217)
Sunday November 18, 2012, 7:05 am
Carole, I did read the article and it is still based on opinion. I have also clearly shown that Muslims do not want peace with Israel or Jews. Arafat and Abbas have been given this opportunity on several occasions. Why have they not done so? Why is Morsi in Gaza, even now, offering help & support. Arms paid for with US money is being offered. How gullible do you have to be?

The terrorists are laughing at you because you believe their propaganda and then turn their attention to you and yours. Read what I have put.

just for carole this is from a website about the Hamas Charter. This is why I know that, whatever your rabbi might say (he is not mine and is not one that I would ever want to know) that he is wrong. Now, can you find anything in this extract from the charter, or the whole one, that would give anyone hope for peace? Is there anything in the quotes from their religious texts bearing in mind that the early texts do not count, the later ones of hatred are the ones that are to be used, Mohammed said so.

From the Hamas Charter:
THE COVENANT OF THE HAMAS - MAIN POINTS

=======================================

The Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement was issued on August 18, 1988. The Islamic Resistance Movement, also known as the HAMAS,

is an extremist fundamentalist Islamic organization operating in the territories under Israeli control. Its Covenant is a comprehensive manifesto comprised of 36 separate articles, all of which promote the basic HAMAS goal of destroying the State of Israel through Jihad (Islamic Holy War). The following are excerpts of the HAMAS

Covenant:

Goals of the HAMAS:

'The Islamic Resistance Movement is a distinguished Palestinian movement, whose allegiance is to Allah, and whose way of life is Islam. It strives to raise the banner of Allah over every inch of Palestine.' (Article 6)

On the Destruction of Israel:

'Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it.' (Preamble)

The Exclusive Moslem Nature of the Area:

'The land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf [Holy Possession] consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgment Day. No one can renounce it or any part, or abandon it or any part of it.' (Article 11)

'Palestine is an Islamic land. Since this is the case, the Liberation of Palestine is an individual duty for every Moslem wherever he may be.' (Article 13)

The Call to Jihad:

'The day the enemies usurp part of Moslem land, Jihad becomes the individual duty of every Moslem. In the face of the Jews' usurpation, it is compulsory that the banner of Jihad be raised.' (Article 15)

'Ranks will close, fighters joining other fighters, and masses everywhere in the Islamic world will come forward in response to the call of duty, loudly proclaiming: 'Hail to Jihad!'. This cry will reach the heavens and will go on being resounded until liberation is achieved, the invaders vanquished and Allah's victory comes about.' (Article 33)

Rejection of a Negotiated Peace Settlement:

'[Peace] initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement... Those conferences are no more than a means to appoint the infidels as arbitrators in the lands of Islam... There is no solution for the Palestinian problem except by Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are but a waste of time, an exercise in futility.' (Article 13)

Condemnation of the Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty:

'Egypt was, to a great extent, removed from the circle of struggle [against Zionism] through the treacherous Camp David Agreement. The Zionists are trying to draw other Arab countries into similar agreements in order to bring them outside the circle of struggle.

...Leaving the circle of struggle against Zionism is high treason,

and cursed be he who perpetrates such an act.' (Article 32)

Anti-Semitic Incitement:

'The Day of Judgment will not come about until Moslems fight Jews and kill them. Then, the Jews will hide behind rocks and trees, and the rocks and trees will cry out: 'O Moslem, there is a Jew hiding behind me, come and kill him.' (Article 7)

'The enemies have been scheming for a long time ... and have accumulated huge and influential material wealth. With their money, they took control of the world media... With their money they stirred revolutions in various parts of the globe... They stood behind the French Revolution, the Communist Revolution and most of the revolutions we hear about... With their money they formed secret organizations - such as the Freemasons, Rotary Clubs and the Lions - which are spreading around the world, in order to destroy societies and carry out Zionist interests... They stood behind World War I ... and formed the League of Nations through which they could rule the world. They were behind World War II, through which they made huge financial gains... There is no war going on anywhere without them having their finger in it.' (Article 22)

'Zionism scheming has no end, and after Palestine, they will covet expansion from the Nile to the Euphrates River. When they have finished digesting the area on which they have laid their hand, they will look forward to more expansion. Their scheme has been laid out in the 'Protocols of the Elders of Zion'.' (Article 32)

'The HAMAS regards itself the spearhead and the vanguard of the circle of struggle against World Zionism... Islamic groups all over the Arab world should also do the same, since they are best equipped
for their future role in the fight against the warmongering Jews.' (Article 32)

 

JL A. (275)
Sunday November 18, 2012, 8:24 am
Experts in conflict resolution agree that conflicts with more than two parties are usually contentious and more difficult to resolve. Historians seem to agree that war as a conflict resolution mode is proves to be a temporary solution since only the victors believe anything was resolved and not even the victor succeeded in reaping all they would have wanted in resolving the conflict. No mediated agreement gives all parties everything they would have preferred to get.
Carole, thank you for trying to provide a forum to explore viable solutions, options, etc. to this contentious conflict other than war (i.e., the least effective method of conflict resolution according to the experts).
It seems that there are some still wedded to war as preferred method for conflict resolution unwilling to explore alternatives who are posting here that are not hearing anything outside the traditional positions of warring parties.
 

Rita White (1)
Sunday November 18, 2012, 9:17 am
noted, thanks
 

Alexa R. (333)
Sunday November 18, 2012, 9:44 am
J.A L it is all good sounding words you've posted, and what Israel has repeatedly tried to negotiate over all these years (read Gillian's comments outlining the many years and hard work Israel has put into negotiating peace -all the compromises/sacrifices Israel has already done in the hope for peace in return).

However, your sweet smelling words offers not even a first level attempt at making suggestions on how to negotiate peace when leaders Hamas et al is not interested in peace (even though peace is what the ordinary Palestinians in the streets want).

As the Hamas chapter clearly spells out, the one and only thing Hamas lives for is the complete destruction of Israel, every single Jew dead. Read article 33, 13

How do you suggest negotiating peace with a murderer?

~~~

My feeble experience has taught me to keep praying for Israel's enemies in the hope they come to their senses and cease murdering, give them enough rope,(do all necessary to protect yourself and your loved ones in an extremely vigilant way while praying with all my heart for protection) and eventually you've either won them over or they have had enough rope to hang themselves or fall in their own trap. (even if you're not religious, if you read the story of Haman and Esther -it is a perfect example of this type of conflict resolution imho).

This is exactly what Israel has been doing and continue to do. Israel is more than capable to wipe Hamas off the face of this earth if she had any such intention at all.

In the meantime, until Hamas et al either hangs itself with all the rope they gathered or cease the rockets raining down on Israeli civilians, Israel has no ethical choice other than fulfilling her obligation to protect her citizens.

~~~

By all means, as i repeatedly asked several posters on this thread, if any of you have better and more expert conflict resolution suggestions for this situation than my feeble suggestion, I'm all ears.


 

JL A. (275)
Sunday November 18, 2012, 10:27 am
The normal rules professional mediators lay down for exploring finding conflict resolution solutions include:
No expressions of emotion or references to past events
No accusations towards any of the other parties
No defense of own party's past actions
Communicating with respect with all other parties

So far comments seem to have identified at least four parties that need to be represented at the table:
Ordinary residents of Israel
Ordinary residents of Palestinian Gaza
Israeli government
Palestinian government (is that the same as Hamas or is Hamas a 5th party?)
Any others?
 

Just Carole (338)
Sunday November 18, 2012, 1:32 pm

Thank you, Judi, for being such a diplomat and wonderful human being!

 

Ge M. (217)
Sunday November 18, 2012, 1:49 pm
JLA Israel has always been willing to go to the table and, in fact, offered Arafat some 95% of his requests at Camp David. Now, if both side want peace, why did Arafat not accept the offer, an incredibly generous one? Because he did not want peace nor does Abbas. He says one thing in English so that morons believe him and, a couple of days later, he uses war rhetoric.

As for Hamas, it is an illegal and unrecognised terrorist organisation and cannot be represented.

I would also add that the approx 1 million Jewish refugees, which are on the negotiating table, are ignored by the Muslim groups.

Abbas asked for settlements to stop being built, so they were for 10 months and he STILL refused to come to the table. Now, how keen is he for peace? How keen is Hamas for peace?

Willful blindness and sheer bigotry is all I hear. Israel has done all it can for years but, when one side does not want peace, only to kill and destroy, how is that going to happen? You have failed to read anything I posted including comments from Islam's holy books (& there are far more than those) or from Hamas's charter. I repeat my challenge to Carole, and I will add you to it, "Now, can you find anything in this extract from the charter, or the whole one, that would give anyone hope for peace? Is there anything in the quotes from their religious texts bearing in mind that the early texts do not count, the later ones of hatred are the ones that are to be used, Mohammed said so."

Put up or shut up is the term that my children use.

 

Ros G. (90)
Sunday November 18, 2012, 2:00 pm
Many thanks Carole for at least trying to suppress the hate - but people are people - give it a name and they will start arguing the for and against. The real way to peace is not through the Politicians but through the people - start with the children they are innocent and see the world through different eyes, then the mothers and grandparents because they want to die knowing their children are safe. Give the men a chance to put down their guns..take off those uniforms - mix, mingle and share - find the common ground - not the uncommon ground.. after all we are of the same race - the Human Race - it should be the Humane Race PEACE BEGINS WITH ME AND YOU. Could all please take the time to sign the petition on another lot of displaced people - the Aboriginal of Australia who have been fighting for 200 hundred years to be recognised in their own Cournty. Peace to All
 

Ge M. (217)
Sunday November 18, 2012, 2:05 pm
By the way Carole, turning a blind eye to the truth does not make it go away. These "diatribes" as you falsely call them, are the truth and do not breach care2 rules. This is the Charter as written by Hamas, not something that I, or even Israel, made up or are you accusing me/them of that too? If this is how Hamas is working, what hope does Israel have? If Arafat did not and Abbas won't negotiate in good faith, what hope does Israel have? Deliberate and willful blindness does not make it better and that is what you are showing. In fact, because of people such as yourself, those Muslims will continue to fail to negotiate and will continue to abuse the people in Gaza and you allow it by refusing to condemn it.

Israel and Jews hope and pray for the best but know that the worst will happen. This is facing reality, something you are refusing to do.

I repeat my challenge to you Carole, "Now, can you find anything in this extract from the charter, or the whole one, that would give anyone hope for peace? Is there anything in the quotes from their religious texts bearing in mind that the early texts do not count, the later ones of hatred are the ones that are to be used, Mohammed said so." Remembering that those Muslims negotiating are those that follow the Islam from the books and will kill any and all non-believers especially Jews. Read the comments!

 

Just Carole (338)
Sunday November 18, 2012, 2:08 pm

Well said, Ros.

I feel fortunate that this article has drawn so many people who are willing to see beyond the hate and the necessity for peace.

Thank you.

You, and many others, reassure me that the quest for peaceful co-existence is the only real solution. While there will always be negative people, who can only predict a negative result; I am strengthened by those who wish for the positive and work for it.

 

JL A. (275)
Sunday November 18, 2012, 3:06 pm
Thank you Carole. I believe the Torah speaks of turning swords into plowshares.
I had hoped the rules for actual peacemaking, mediation or other agreement processes might influence comments to conform to those rules thereafter--which would indicate that the writers truly want an equitable solution.
I agree that Ros wrote well about what many would find to be the most essential issue--and one that is "life or death." "War is not healthy for children and other living things."
 

Caitlin Mac Iver (103)
Sunday November 18, 2012, 3:15 pm
I have no interest in which side is "right" and which side is "wrong." It is probable that both sides of this long-standing conflict have much to complain about and to be indignant about for whatever reasons they may have. There doesn't seem to be enough will to work toward peace instead of working toward "winning." Haven't we in America had enough of that kind of thinking from two opposing bodies? Haven't the Israelis and the Palestinians had enough of that to satisfy their egos yet? Come on!... if the Irish "Troubles" can finally come to rest (which it did with the help of George Mitchell, the former Senator from Maine), why can't these people find a solution so that all of them can co-exist in peace. Sen. Mitchell tried there, too, but failed to bring these sides together. What will it take... pure annihilation? It is very, very sad indeed when humans forsake their brains for a bayonette! Stupid, IMO! Thanks, Carole.
 

Just Carole (338)
Sunday November 18, 2012, 3:24 pm

Bless your heart, Caitlin! Now, THAT'S what I'm talkin' about!

(ENORMOUS, loving grin and hug for you.)

 

Ros G. (90)
Sunday November 18, 2012, 3:33 pm
Thank You for your kind and encouraging words Carole ... I do at times wonder why I bother to put myself out there.. the hate and prejudice is just amazing. I was raised not to hate people that are different to me..we can all learn from each other. No one person, race or religion has all the answers - the world is not black and white - it's full of colour. We should stop for moment everyday and be thankful for that diversity. "Reach out and touch somebody's hand - make this world a better place if you can" I'm grateful that Care2 gives me that opportunity because I know I'm not alone - there are so many good hearts out there. There is no reason why people can't put aside their differences - and do want we were meant to do Live Peacefully on this One Home we have. Work towards the betterment of mankind and this planet - dismantle the War Machine worldwide and put that money back into rebuilding what has been destroyed. Fix the Hearts of the People and you fix the Heart of the World Peace and Happiness to you all
 

Just Carole (338)
Sunday November 18, 2012, 3:52 pm

It only confirms my conviction that this world will be conquered by those with love in their hearts . . .

Otherwise, the only response can be utter and total destruction. Our thoughts and actions create like responses. (Simple physics: cause and effect.)

In many ways I am sad for those who live with such hatred; but, on the other hand, I feel that their screaming calls for attention and disruption force me to oppose them and rise and to others that to follow their path is evil and ill-advised.

 

Ge M. (217)
Sunday November 18, 2012, 3:59 pm
As I said Carole, you refuse to acknowledge the truth and insult us that do. Try this for truth from an English journalist, nah, you won't.

Here is some information about the war between Gaza and Israel that for some unaccountable reason you may have missed today in Britain's mainstream media.

• The casualty rate in Gaza from Israeli strikes is astoundingly low
Since the beginning of Israel's operation Pillar of Defence last Wednesday against Hamas rocket attacks, there have been more than 1000 Israeli air strikes. At time of writing, the Palestinian death toll is 69. That is a staggeringly small number of fatalities for more than 1000 bombing raids.

It shows beyond doubt that the Israelis are not only doing everything they can to avoid civilian casualties, but have achieved a degree of precision in doing so which no other army can match. For sure, every civilian casualty is regrettable, and the deaths of children are always tragic -- today's apparently heavy toll particularly so, including at what appears to have been a mistaken target. Such mistakes inevitably happen in war.

But consider this: the very low casualty rate among Israelis from the thousands of rockets that have rained down on them from Gaza is largely due to the fact that Israel has provided its citizens with shelters to save their lives. In Gaza, by horrific contrast, the Hamas leadership has deliberately exposed its citizens to attack by siting its rocket arsenals among them in order to maximise the number of civilian men, women and children who will be killed.
• A number of Gazan civilians may have been killed by their own rockets
Israel says that no fewer than 60 of the 703 rockets that Hamas fired at Israel between last Wednesday and Saturday fell inside Gaza on Palestinian civilians. The question therefore is how many of the 69 dead Palestinians were killed by their own rockets?
• Here's one: Hamas lies that a child killed by its own rocket was killed by Israel
Last Friday, a number of papers along with outlets such as CNN in the US published prominent footage of the Egyptian Prime Minister Hisham Kanil weeping over the body cradled in his arms of a dead child, Mahmoud Sadallah, who Hamas claimed had been killed in an Israeli air strike. Blogger Elder of Zyon smelled a rat and, piecing together convincing circumstantial evidence, had concluded by this morning that the child was almost certainly not killed by an Israeli strike - not least because on Friday morning when the child died the Israelis had paused their bombing missions to allow for cease-fire talks in Gaza to proceed -- but by a Hamas missile that was fired at Israel but had fallen short in Gaza. Now experts from the Palestinian Centre for Human Rights who visited the site on Saturday have said they believe that the explosion that killed Mahmoud Sadallah was indeed caused by a Palestinian rocket.
Just how prominent do you reckon the apologies on CNN and in the British media for this sloppy and incompetent reporting/malicious war libel of Israel will be?
• Hamas admits to using human shields
In 2008 , Gaza MP Fathi Muhammad boasted that Hamas used Gaza's civilian population as human shields. He screamed:

'For the Palestinian people, death has become an industry at which women excel, and so do all the people living on this land. The elderly excel at this, and so do the mujahideen and the children. This is why they have formed human shields of the women, the children, the elderly and the mujahideen, in order to challenge the Zionist bombing machine. It is as if they were saying to the Zionist enemy, "We desire death like you desire life".'

Remember this next time you hear or read of claims by Palestinians or their useful western media idiots of 'massacres' of civilians in Gaza.
• Hamas is now using journalists as human shields
Hamas is preventing at least 22 foreign journalists from leaving Gaza for Israel. According to Israel's Foreign Ministry, among those being detained are nine Italian citizens, one Canadian, one South Korean, a French national and six journalists from Japan. In addition, two Turkish Red Crescent members have been refused exit.
• Hamas tells lies as a matter of routine
Hamas has claimed, inter alia, that Israel's Ben Gurion airport has been closed (false), that it had succeeded in shooting down an Israeli F16 plane (false), that it had hit Tel Aviv and had cut off electricity there (false). When will the western media stop assuming that they can believe any claim that Hamas ever makes?
• Hamas is now threatening human bomb attacks
Hamas is now threatening to use human bombs against both Israeli civilians in buses and cafes, and against Israeli soldiers in any ground offensive in Gaza. This is what almost certainly faces the Israel Defence Forces if they go in, because as Fathi Muhammad said (above), the Palestinians are a death cult; they are committed to death and to killing, while the Israelis are committed to life and to saving life.
• Israel is feeding the hand that bites it
Unprecedentedly for a country at war, Israel continues to supply food, gas and medical supplies to its enemies in Gaza for humanitarian reasons. Would any other country in the world keep the supply route open to people who are firing thousands of rockets to murder its people and are threatening to turn themselves into human bombs to kill its soldiers and civilians, so that they can continue to do so?
• And now for some news from civilised Britain
On BBC Radio's Any Questions on Friday evening, audience questioner Stephen Bedford asked:

'Despite all the foreign aid and support, Israel has spectacularly failed to get on with its neighbours. Does Israel deserve a future?'

So with Israel having faced existential attack from the Arab and Muslim world for the six decades of its existence, and having been under intensive rocket, missile and human bomb attack from them for more than a decade, the BBC Any Questions production team selected as the audience question to launch its discussion of the Gaza war whether Israel actually deserved to exist at all.

Vile.


 

Ge M. (217)
Sunday November 18, 2012, 4:21 pm
Now, try and cope with the real world and not the soft fuzzy one that you have surrounded the terrorists with.

I AM STILL WAITING FOR AN ANSWER. ARE YOU CAPABLE OF GIVING ME ONE? IS THERE ANYTHING IN THE HAMAS CHARTER THAT WILL ENABLE PEACE IN ISRAEL? IS THERE ANYTHING IN THE WRITINGS OF ISLAM, REMEMBERING IT IS THE LAST PARTS THAT YOU HAVE TO USE. IT SEEMS TO ME THAT YOU HAVE HIT THE SAME PROBLEM THAT ISRAEL HAS IN TRYING TO NEGOTIATE PEACE! HAMAS DOES NOT WANT PEACE.

Thry this

THE RAW TRUTH ABOUT ARAFAT AND THE PALESTINIANS: A WORLDWIDE THREAT
http://www.vibrani.com/Palestinians.htm

Arafat always believed that Palestine would be Israel, go to this page to see the badge that he wore on his uniform.
http://www.cdn-friends-icej.ca/isreport/mayjun99/plomaps.html

Abbas is no different and is just a more modern version. Of course, I know that you won't bother to look at this anymore than you have read the Charter or the quotes from the books of Islam. You can always check yourself. Shutting your eyes and crossing your fingers does not bring peace. Wearing blinkers only means that you walk into things. Either you understand or, more likely, you support the Muslims.

First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out - because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out - because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out - because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out - because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me - and there was no one left to speak out for me.
 

Just Carole (338)
Sunday November 18, 2012, 4:21 pm

It is my policy -- and the advice from Care2 admin. -- that we not respond to "baiters."

(And in my opinion, you are a "master-baiter.")

 

Alexa R. (333)
Sunday November 18, 2012, 4:54 pm
J.A. L the Palestinian authorities have split in 2, PA (West Bank) and Hamas(Gaza).

And once all is gathered once more at the table, how do you suggest us Israelis respond to these threats? I doubt you would you like for us to ignore them and wait to get killed?

Hamas to Israelis:
"We've missed the suicide attacks
Expect us soon at bus stations and in cafés"
http://palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=157&doc_id=7996

by Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik

In response to Israel's Operation Pillar of Defense that aims to cripple the terrorist infrastructure in Gaza and protect Israeli civilians, Hamas' military wing, the Al-Qassam Brigades, has produced videos addressing Israelis.
"From the Palestinian people to the Zionists: We've missed the suicide attacks. Expect us soon at bus stations and in cafés."
[Al-Aqsa TV (Fatah), Nov. 18, 2012]

"From the Al-Qassam Brigades to the Zionists: Don't go to sleep, because we may get you in your sleep."
[Al-Aqsa TV (Fatah), Nov. 18, 2012]

The videos, which include footage of fighting Al-Qassam Brigades members, missiles being fired, and pictures of injured soldiers, also address Israeli soldiers:
"From the Al-Qassam Brigades to the Zionist soldiers: On the edge of Gaza, [your] grave is waiting for you."

"Zionist soldiers: Come forward, brave one, so that you can be killed."
 

Alexa R. (333)
Sunday November 18, 2012, 4:56 pm
Just Carole (594)
Sunday November 18, 2012, 3:52 pm

It only confirms my conviction that this world will be conquered by those with love in their hearts . . .

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Finally .. something you and I agree on 100% ...

 

Alexa R. (333)
Sunday November 18, 2012, 4:59 pm
Oops .. it should read

J.L. A ... apologies ..
 

Rose NoFWDSPLZ (273)
Sunday November 18, 2012, 5:16 pm
A great post Carol it gives us great insight so thank you
 

Just Carole (338)
Sunday November 18, 2012, 5:20 pm

[Because my last comment keeps "disappearing," I am saving a print screen of it.]
 

Just Carole (338)
Sunday November 18, 2012, 5:25 pm

And, AGAIN, it is gone.

(I'm glad I saved proof that it was posted.)

Now, let's talk about censorship.

See this article:

We are forbidden to say this Gaza is a Concentration Camp


 

Just Carole (338)
Sunday November 18, 2012, 5:38 pm
 
[Just in case the comment(s) were deleted by too many hotlinks, I'm trying it again -- with fewer.]
 
So, now, the formerly tormented become the oppressors:
 
We are forbidden to say this Gaza is a Concentration Camp
 
"THE MOST STRIKING and significant quality of our national conversation "is one of overwhelming, oppressive and suffocating unreality.
 
It is as if everyone knows, but will never acknowledge, that we may speak only in code, and that we may only utilize the safe, empty phrases that we have agreed are 'acceptable' -- phrases and language that are safe precisely because they have been drained of all correspondence to facts.
 
It is as if everyone realizes, but will never state, that we are engaged in an elaborate charade, a pageant of gesture and indication, where substance and specific meaning have been banned. ... [T]he truth is not merely unpleasant, an uninvited guest who makes conversation difficult and awkward. Truth is the enemy; truth is to be destroyed.
 
Gaza is a concentration camp. It is not like a concentration camp. It is not a metaphorical or figurative concentration camp. It is a concentration camp. Our culture, our political leaders, and the cacophony of voices in the media have all agreed that this truth must never be spoken.
 
[Unlike others who wish to monopolize this thread, I will not re-post the entire article here.  Please visit the article to read it in its entirety.]
 

 

Kit B. (276)
Sunday November 18, 2012, 5:43 pm

Oh for goodness sake, now Care2 is for posting books? Learn to read and synthesize your comments. No one will read this nonsense.

I'm so sorry Carole that your comments section for a truly excellent and factual article has be turned into a publication house for hate rhetoric.

When I could send green stars,I did because a some here deserved them, others need to learn how to debate and allow room for discussion.
 

Just Carole (338)
Sunday November 18, 2012, 5:47 pm

If the above comment remains, I apologize for my accusations that it was deleted due to censorship.

(But, you'd have to admit that it was strange that I posted it 4 times and it disappeared almost immediately. It was even more suspicious because it was pointing readers to an article specifically about having freedom of speech oppressed.)

 

Just Carole (338)
Sunday November 18, 2012, 5:50 pm

I understand and agree, Miss Kitty.

(And they wonder why I refuse to respond to them?)

 

Just Carole (338)
Sunday November 18, 2012, 6:12 pm

"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their customs, privileges or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking; where it is absent, discussion is apt to become worse than useless."
~ Leo Nikolaevich Tolstoi ~
 

Kit B. (276)
Sunday November 18, 2012, 6:14 pm

There is nothing that needs or deserves a response. Some make the choice to view the world through a lens of hate and bigotry. I feel sad for all that they miss in this world, but I also feel those comments are completely inappropriate. Again, I thank you for sharing this article.
 

JL A. (275)
Sunday November 18, 2012, 6:19 pm
Alexandra--thank you for confirming for me the divided nature of the Palestinians.

The Camp David Accord was done far from the war zones on neutral ground...I suspect without weapons, too. Those two factors might be ones to choose again.

The selected representatives are entrusted with crafting agreements and can be incommunicado with the outside world for the duration. The process usually has the agreements being voted on by the parties as is on a yes or no vote to the entirety.

Not all parties necessarily have the same number of representatives--those numbers are usually negotiated at the beginning as a part of the agreed upon process. Sometimes a maximum time limit for the process is chosen (e.g., certain number of hours or days before stopping if no progress).

Often three representatives is the minimum for any of the parties should a way to move forward to agreement be found, then drafting sections can be delegated to smaller task groups with representatives of each party to the intended agreement.

Sometimes whoever is facilitating or mediating will ask for confidential input from each representative of what they want (not expected to be shared with each other or anyone else). Often input will include things like permanent resolution, conciliation, end of violence, etc. that all at the table may hope for (areas of agreement).

The synergy of working toward a common goal in an environment of mutual respect does lead to creative ideas that lead to solutions--possibly more often than in stilted formal negotiations functioning with an adversarial dynamic.

Does that help flesh out the vision enough for the moment Alexandra?
 

Angelika R. (146)
Sunday November 18, 2012, 6:20 pm
I wish people would come to sense, instead of endless debates about both parties at war and which side is being more cautious about civilian casualties etc why not speak out the only truth to a solution: Israel must FINALLY comply with all international law and the endless number of UN resolutions and END THE OCCUPATION and STOP the settlements. Period.
They will never see a day of lasting peace as long as they follow the idea of building a Greater Israel and suppress other people for that goal.
 

Jelica R. (157)
Sunday November 18, 2012, 7:41 pm
This is how biased care2 is - from e-mail: "The C2NN Dailiy - News You Choose":

Noted: 38 CNN USES PALLYWOOD FOOTAGE OF FAKED INJURED ARAB IN GAZA
posted by: Beth S 1 hour ago; 16 comments

Noted: 35 Will Israel Send Ground Forces Into Gaza?
posted by: Bob A 1 hour ago; 16 comments

Noted: 44 Letter To Obama ACTION
posted by: Nancy C 5 hours ago; 13 comments

more world news >>
______________________________

To put this in perspective, this submission was noted by 52 members and has 113 comments, AND still is not listed under "Most Active Today in World" 3 posts on top of this page (which combined have 74 comments) and one of them was less noted than this. Wanna complain about this, too.
 

Jelica R. (157)
Sunday November 18, 2012, 8:04 pm
May I remind you that Hamas won the 2006 elections, which were reported to be honest and fair (Sunday late night, on the day of the elections) by all international supervisor groups. The very next day, monday, out-of-a-blue-sky USA statement that elections were false brought a world into questioning US sanity. US backed Fatah refused to accept the electorate outcome; clashed with Hamas, lost again and was expelled from Gaza. Thus, a party which represent Palestinians is Hamas, Fatah has lost it's mandate in 2006 elections.
 

Just Carole (338)
Sunday November 18, 2012, 8:08 pm

Yeah, that's all true, Jellica. (And I appreciaite your pointing out fact.)

Yet, and still, I do NOT post submissions based on what I believe to be popular (or incendiary) . . . I calls 'em like I sees 'em.

To HELL with commendations and meaningless recognition.


 

Ros G. (90)
Sunday November 18, 2012, 8:14 pm
Diabetes is kills many thousands of people around the world each day. The Doctors say that this disease is caused because they do not have any sweetness in their lives. Hence, they fill themselves with things full of suger to maintain some sweetness. Beth S and her co-horts are already causualities of this war and they could easily succumb to this as well.
 

Just Carole (338)
Sunday November 18, 2012, 8:15 pm

EEK!

Sorry about misspelling your name, Jelica!

You are a MOST appreciated defender of justice (and personal friend).

 

Just Carole (338)
Sunday November 18, 2012, 8:20 pm

For those who conveniently divide "social site friends' from "true life friends," I will say this:

Although I am, in reality, an extremely private person, Jelica maintained a candle, in honor of my sister's death on 10/6, along side me, until I realized that I needed to stop.

[No, Jelica, I will NEVER forget that.

 

Just Carole (338)
Sunday November 18, 2012, 8:24 pm


My point for the above expressions of gratitude is that ALL life (when taken before what we perceive is the "right time," is precious.

And each life, on either side of the Gaza imaginary border, that was lost is a true tragedy . . . and each was left with mourners.

 

Alexa R. (333)
Sunday November 18, 2012, 8:26 pm
J.L A, since you seem to have taken on the role of Hamas representative and I that of Israel, can we agree the following to points? As you can perhaps appreciate, I can see little point in any negotiations if we cannot adhere to the following two points:

1. honesty (if something is put on the table that is unsubstantiated lies without any backup or evidence, then it best be pushed off the table, instead of wasting our time) agreed?

2. fairness (the same standard you apply to me. the same expectations - would automatically be expected of you in return and vice versa) agreed?

If agreed, then the first brazen unsubstantiated whooper that needs to go from our table is:

Angelikanomail Roll (75)
Sunday November 18, 2012, 6:20 pm

: Israel must FINALLY comply with all international law and the endless number of UN resolutions and END THE OCCUPATION and STOP the settlements. Period.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Israel is a sovereignty, fully legal country and does not, neither has, ever broken international law. Israel does not occupy Gaza - there are no Jews living there, they've all been evacuated a long time ago, they have their own government in Gaza called Hamas.

Even a very basic understanding of international law makes it crystal clear that Israel is in the clear under international law.

Here goes the evidence:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Summary: It is almost universally believed that Israeli settlements in the West Bank are illegal under international law. This claim is made automatically by politicians, journalists, non-governmental organisations, and, of course, by the Palestinians and the entire Arab world. The claim is built on four arguments:-
1. that Israel illegally occupies the West Bank;
2. that that land was sovereign Palestinian land at the time Israel took over;
3. that Jews have no legal right to settle on that occupied Palestinian land;
4. and that Israeli settlements violate the Geneva Convention of 1949.
This Briefing provides responses to these arguments, showing:
1. that Israel’s entry into the West Bank in 1967 was lawful;
2. that that territory was not sovereign Palestinian territory at that time;
3. that Jews have a legal right to settle in the West Bank, and that it is a political, diplomatic and ethical question whether they do so or not; and
4. that settlement activity is not a violation of the Geneva Convention.
Why it is such a significant diplomatic issue: The claim that “all Israeli settlements are illegal” is misconceived. But because it is so widely believed, the Palestinians and the Arab world have no incentive to achieve territorial compromise. They argue that international law demands the uprooting of all Israeli settlements, and that they should not have to be flexible on this matter. The claim that “all settlements are illegal” is thus fatal to a negotiated two-state solution involving land swaps, and far-reaching territorial compromise.
“We regard all settlements in the occupied territories as illegal under international law….”
• Bill Rammell, British Minister of State in the Foreign and Commonwealth Office, in the UK parliament on 11 November 2008.

The statement is made routinely by Western politicians, journalists, expert commentators, NGOs, as well as by all the Palestinians and across the entire Arab world. But is it correct?
We outline four main arguments upon which the claim is built, and provide counter-arguments.
Argument 1: ‘The West Bank is land illegally occupied by Israel…..’
It is routinely assumed that Israel’s presence on the West Bank is an “illegal occupation”. This is in fact not the case.
• Summary: Israel’s presence in the West Bank today is not illegal under international law. Israel entered the West Bank lawfully in June 1967 in the exercise of its right of self-defence against Jordanian attack. The occupation in and of itself is not unlawful.
• In November 1947, the United Nations had voted to divide mandatory Palestine (then administered by Britain) into a sovereign Jewish state and a sovereign Arab state – a two-state solution. The Jewish leadership accepted this plan. The Arab leadership did not.
• In 1948-49, Israel fought its war of independence against the Arab residents of Mandatory Palestine, and five neighbouring states. In 1950, Jordan illegally annexed the West Bank, of which it had taken control in the course of the war.
• In June 1967, Jordan launched a massive bombardment of civilian Israeli targets from the West Bank on the first day of the Six Day War (see Beyond Images Briefing 103), and despite appeals from Israel to Jordan to stay out of the war which had started with Egypt.
• As a sovereign state, and member of the UN, Israel has a right of self-defence under the UN Charter against attack by another sovereign state.
• Exercising that right, Israeli armed forces entered the West Bank to defend itself against the Jordanian assault. That is how the current ‘occupation’ began.
• Israel is obliged under international law to withdraw from territories (not all territories) occupied in 1967 in accordance with UN Security Council Resolution 242, in the context of a negotiated peace agreement with its neighbours which recognises Israel’s legitimate security needs, and the need for defensible borders.
• Within weeks of the 1967 war, Israel had already proposed to withdraw from most of the West Bank – but this and many other steps were rebuffed by the Arab states.
• Israel’s subsequent Camp David Peace Accords with Egypt in 1978, and its total withdrawal from the Sinai peninsula in 1982, marked a partial fulfilment of UN Resolution 242.
• Resolution 242, which is the centrepiece of relevant international law on this topic, does not require Israeli withdrawal from all West Bank territory.
• Thus, Israel’s entry into the West Bank was lawful. And its continued presence there is lawful too. It is for all the parties to the conflict to reach a negotiated peace agreement under which Israel would withdraw.
Argument 2: ‘The land was sovereign Palestinian land when Israel took over…’
• The West Bank territory which Israel entered in 1967 was not sovereign Palestinian territory.
• It formed part of Mandatory Palestine until 1948. The Arabs rejected the partition plan approved by the UN which would have assured the permanent status of the West Bank as Palestinian sovereign territory.
• No independent Palestinian Arab state was created in the West Bank between 1950 and 1967 either, when Jordan controlled that territory. At the same time, Jews were completely barred by Jordan from the West Bank, from East Jerusalem and from the old City of Jerusalem (the holiest site in the Jewish world).
• In 2009, over 60 years after the UN partition plan, the final legal status of the West Bank – its sovereignty and the permanent, internationally recognised borders of Israel and a future state of Palestine – has not been resolved. Israel has legitimate claims in relation to the territory too (see section (iii) below)
• For these reasons, the West Bank is properly regarded as “disputed territory” rather than “occupied Palestinian land”, which it is always called, and which implies some prior Palestinian sovereignty which in fact has never existed.
Argument 3: ‘The Jewish people have no right to settle in the West Bank…’
Even if the territories were lawfully entered by Israel in 1967, and even if the land was not Palestinian sovereign land at the time, why should Israel be entitled to build settlements there now?

• The Jewish people have had an unbroken connection with the Land of Israel stretching back for over 3000 years (see Beyond Images Briefing 1 - Israel and the Jewish people: the 3500 year connection). That connection is part of Jewish values, heritage and history.
• The West Bank is not alien territory for the Jewish people, but the very heart of the territorial connection. Even secular Israelis on the left of centre of Israeli politics acknowledge this connection.
• This does not mean that Israelis wish to retain the entire West Bank, or that it would be right or justified to do so. There is now a consensus in Israel that this cannot and should not happen. But this is because of politics, diplomacy, ethics and pragmatism. It is not because Jewish settlement in the West Bank is illegal per se.
• The international community formally recognised the legality of Jewish settlement activity in the area now called the West Bank as far back as 1920.
• During the decades before Israel’s independence in 1948, thousands of returning Jews had been building up an embryonic state in British-administered mandatory Palestine.
• In 1920, the League of Nations (the predecessor to the United Nations) defined the terms of the British Mandate over Palestine. Article 6 of the Mandate states:-
“The Administration of Palestine, while ensuring that the rights and position of other sections of the population are not prejudiced, shall facilitate Jewish immigration under suitable conditions and shall encourage, in cooperation with the Jewish agency referred to in Article 4, close settlement by Jews on the land [Beyond Images emphasis], including state lands not required for public use….”
• The territory to which this refers includes the area between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea ie including the modern ‘West Bank’.
• During the period 1920-1948 (ie before Israel was re-established), Jews settled in locations like Neve Ya’acov, the Etzion Bloc and other areas in the West Bank. Meanwhile, Jews had had a virtually uninterrupted presence in the West Bank town of Hebron for well nearly 2000 years. Hebron and other West Bank towns play a significant role in the Jewish national heritage. Jews moving to live in these places were not carrying out “illegal settlement”. They returned there lawfully, and their presence was considered legitimate by the Mandatory powers and the international community.
• The presence of Jews in these locations was often ended by massacres carried out by Arabs (for example the Hebron massacre of 1929, and the Etzion Bloc massacre of 1948).
• But neither massacre, nor the Jordanian policy of refusing all Jews entry between 1950 and 1967, can extinguish the right of Jews to settle there, and their connection.
• Some Israeli settlements on the West Bank are considered ‘illegal’ by the Israelis themselves, namely the so-called ‘illegal outposts’ which are usually just portacabins or tents. But that is because those Jews establishing them – usually as an act of defiance following a Palestinian terrorist attack against Israeli civilians – have flouted Israeli administrative law relating to the territories in the way they have built them. It is not because the presence of Jews in the territories is illegal under international law.
• Furthermore, Israel is obliged under the diplomatic accord reached in 2003, and known as the Road Map for Peace, to freeze settlement activity. But that is an agreement with the Palestinian Authority, under which the Palestinians also have obligations. Israel’s commitment to freeze settlement activity has nothing to do with the legality of settlements per se. Israel argues that the Road Map is a two-way accord, and that the Palestinians’ blatant non-compliance with its obligations means that Israel cannot be expected to comply by itself
Argument 4: ‘Israel’s West Bank settlements violate the Fourth Geneva Convention…..’

But what about the Geneva Convention?
A further argument for why Israel’s settlements are supposedly “illegal” is that they violate Article 49 of the Fourth Geneva Convention on the Protection of Civilian Persons In Time of War, which was enacted in 1949.
Summary of response: This Article has been seriously misrepresented by those who argue that Israeli settlements violate it. It was enacted for a completely different purpose.
Article 49 applies between states – ie so-called ‘High Contracting Parties’. It forbids a sovereign state from “deporting or transferring parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies”. Earlier on the Article describes such transfers as “forcible transfers”. The purpose of the Article, according to the International Red Cross guidance (see www.icrc.org, cited by the Israeli Foreign Ministry), has always been to protect civilian populations from being forcibly relocated against their will by their own country into the territory of a state which had been conquered.
• The West Bank is not a ‘High Contracting State’: Firstly, the territory to which the settlers have moved is, as we explained the response to argument 2 above, not sovereign Palestinian territory, but “disputed territory” whose final status has still to be decided by agreement. The Geneva Convention applies to the territory of High Contracting States – ie recognised sovereign states. It is highly questionable whether the Fourth Geneva Convention applies even in principle to such territory.
• It is forcible transfers of civilian populations to occupied territory, not voluntary settlement, which is made unlawful: Even if the Geneva Convention does apply, Article 49 was enacted to prevent an occupying power from forcibly moving part of its own population against their will to another sovereign territory. Germany had done this repeatedly before and during the Second World War, when it carried out forced population transfers of German nationals into occupied Poland, Czechoslovakia and Hungary. Article 49 was designed to render such acts illegal in the future. But the Israeli settlers move voluntarily – they have not been coerced into doing so.
• The Article applies to the movement of a civilian population into genuinely alien territory, not territory from which they were criminally expelled: Article 49 does not render illegal the return of civilian populations to places from which they were criminally ousted in the first place (eg Jews re-establishing a presence in Kfar Etzion or in Hebron)
• There has been no displacement of Palestinians as a result of settlements as such: It is implicit in Article 49 that the forcible transfer needs to force out parts of the previously present population, and replace them with the alien population. But Palestinians have not been forcibly displaced as a result of Jewish settlements. The Palestinian Arab population of the West Bank has soared during the 42 years that Israel has been present in the territories, as has Palestinian Arab life expectancy. There has been no replacement of the Palestinian Arabs by the Jews, nor forced expulsion.
The establishment of Jewish settlements in the West Bank is thus not a violation of the 1949 Geneva Convention. Article 49, properly read and interpreted, has no application to the Jewish settlements. It was enacted for a completely different purpose.
Why does the issue matter?
The claim that “all Israeli settlements are illegal” is misconceived. But because it is so widely believed, the Palestinians and the Arab world have no incentive to achieve territorial compromise. They argue that international law demands the uprooting of all Israeli settlements, and that they should not have to be flexible on this matter. The claim that “all settlements are illegal” is thus fatal to a negotiated two-state solution involving land swaps and far-reaching territorial compromise.

 

Just Carole (338)
Sunday November 18, 2012, 8:32 pm

The process of defining "enemies" as less than human has continued for decades.

What's most galling to me is to see those who wish to represent survivors of a most outrageous holocaust with such dismissive language of their own rights to choose their destiny.

It is, utterly vomitous.

 

Alexa R. (333)
Sunday November 18, 2012, 8:33 pm
Just Carole (594)
Sunday November 18, 2012, 5:25 pm

And, AGAIN, it is gone.

(I'm glad I saved proof that it was posted.)

Now, let's talk about censorship.

See this article:

We are forbidden to say this Gaza is a Concentration Camp

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It is a provable fact (read the above if you're interested in the truth regards Gaza) that there are not even a single Jew or IDF in Gaza, Gaza has its own government and elections, etc, etc. Such brazen lies claiming Gaza is a concentration camp when it is clearly and provably not does nothing other than incite undeserved hatred for Israel and is rightfully forbidden.
 

Just Carole (338)
Sunday November 18, 2012, 8:41 pm

After your last remark, Alexandra, I am committed to having Care2 limit the number of characters that can be used in news network comments,

You should be embarrassed that, whenever you feel the need to respond, you are incapable of using your own words. And worse? That even when you use the words of others, you have no consideration of the amount of space you use to copy/paste the words of others.

It's only considerate (as I demonstrated) that you limit your comment to a few paragraphs . . . and then, to provide a link (in the case of those who wish to delve further.

PLEASE attempt to pretend that you have an inkling of consideration. Not all members have high-speed modems, nor should they have to scroll down (and down, and down) because a commenter -- incapable of responding with their own words -- chooses, instead to bore them with redundant recopying of the opinions of others.

[Extremely aggressive, inconsiderate and controlling behavior.]



 

Just Carole (338)
Sunday November 18, 2012, 8:44 pm

Please post the URL to your article and give others the option of whether or not they wish to read forward.

(It IS the polite thing to do.)

 

JL A. (275)
Sunday November 18, 2012, 8:52 pm
No I am not representing any party other than seeking a process for conflict resolution that resolves it for all involved and you identified who all were involved Alexandra. You identified Hamas as a party who needed to be at the table.

I described to you how ANY mediated settlement process occurs (some divorces use it, for example).

I see now I must have been mistaken in seeing interest in exploration of a nonviolent method for conflict resolution in what you wrote--please forgive me for making that honest, unintentional mistake.
 

Alexa R. (333)
Sunday November 18, 2012, 8:54 pm
Just Carole (594)
Sunday November 18, 2012, 8:41 pm

After your last remark, Alexandra, I am committed to having Care2 limit the number of characters that can be used in news network comments,

....
PLEASE attempt to pretend that you have an inkling of consideration. Not all members have high-speed modems, nor should they have to scroll down (and down, and down) because a commenter -- incapable of responding with their own words -- chooses, instead to bore them with redundant recopying of the opinions of others.

[Extremely aggressive, inconsiderate and controlling behavior.]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Does the truth hurt you that much Just Carole?

PS. BTW, I am polite .. very polite ..

PPS. Is this comment of mine enough of my own words for you ..? And is it short enough for you ..? Does it fit into the Just Carole limit ..?

I do want to be considerate ..!


 

Just Carole (338)
Sunday November 18, 2012, 8:59 pm

And I appreciate your pretension.

Thank you.

 

JL A. (275)
Sunday November 18, 2012, 9:11 pm
To repeat: The rules of coming to the table is that

The normal rules professional mediators lay down for exploring finding conflict resolution solutions include:
No expressions of emotion or references to past events
No accusations towards any of the other parties
No defense of own party's past actions
Communicating with respect with all other parties

 

Jelica R. (157)
Sunday November 18, 2012, 9:51 pm
Truth, Alexandra? International community does not recognise what you say as truth. On the contrary, there are many UN resolutions which say so.

1.) Israeli blockade of Gaza is illegal.

A blockade is only lawful in two circumstances; if it is authorised by a Resolution of the UN Security Council, or if it is applied in the context of a war between States. In the latter circumstance a blockade must comply with certain conditions:

- A blockading State must be at war with the blockaded State or a ‘belligerent’. Israel refuses to recognise ‘Gaza’ or ‘Hamas’ as a State or as a belligerent. It thus robs the Palestinians of any legal status so as to deny them the protection of international law. Furthermore Palestine does not exist in international law as a State.

- The blockading State must notify all States likely to be effected of the area under blockade. Normally a blockading State lodges a notice with maritime organizations, including a map specifying the blockaded area – or sends diplomatic notes to the relevant countries. Since Israel considers itself immune from international law, it has given no notice to anyone.

- Blockades targeting the civilian population are illegal. Several UN bodies have stated that the effect of the blockade is to significantly harm the population of Gaza. That this is also the intention of the blockade is evidenced by the fact that Israel rejects UN and EU proposals to monitor the blockade. This would prevent the supply of military contraband – but would make it impossible to impose a 'starvation blockade', Israel’s real intention.

Israel’s blockade of Gaza is therefore illegal

2.) Alexandra: "Israel entered the West Bank lawfully in June 1967 in the exercise of its right of self-defence against Jordanian attack."

BS! West Bank was part of Mandate Palestina allocated for the Palestinians by UN in 1947. It was not an empty land. Jordan entered WB during 1967 war to protect Palestinians, with full permission from the Palestinian Authorities. In peace negotiations in 1976, Jordan agreed to withdraw from West Bank, on behalf of Palestinians. To calm Israeli fear of being attacked from the WB, parties have agreed to keep Israeli military presence on WB until a concord between Palestina and Israel is concluded; and naively didn't put any time frame on IDF presence on the Palestinian territory, nor for the Israeli-Palestine agreement.
Invading other country's territory as a measure of self-defence should be temporary, it does not give an invader the right of keeping it. Such a medieval practice! Further, occupying force is obligated to ensure that life, health and culture of occupied people are protected; and is prohibited to economically benefit from looting resources of the occupied territory. This are the rules of the Geneva Convention, not my phantasy. I know that Hasbara dismiss all international obligations Israel was only happy to sign when an approval from international community was eagerly needed. You might have forgot it, but I and most of the world remember.
 

Alexander Werner (53)
Sunday November 18, 2012, 10:18 pm
Gaza is a "Concentration Camp"? Cute. How about an Egypt being even bigger "Concentration Camp"?

Why not:
* Egyptians make the same money as Gazans, or less;
* Egyptians don't have an option to work in Israel;
* Egyptians are not treated by Israeli hospitals or attend Israeli Universities.
* Egyptians are governed by the same Islamist Muslim Brotherhood that rules Gaza;
* Egypt and Israel also have a common border with Israel;
* There are some Jews still living in Egypt, yet none remains in Gaza.

Why not claim that Egypt is also under Israeli occupation? Carole, you have a vivid imagination.

 

Ros G. (90)
Monday November 19, 2012, 12:31 am
Alexandra R, You can really help me here because it all comes down to preception and understanding - not rhetoric or self-defense. I gave up years ago trying to get an understanding of Israel. What could never be answered is: how can so many people that are of different nationalities form a Country based on religion. The only other country in the world that has been formed on this premise is Vatican City. I learned only to ask people of the Jewish faith because I wanted their point of view and not some point of view from an outsider. Most were friends that lived here (Australia) - fought for Israel but never lived there, so they didn't really know how to answer. I was fortunate enough to help a young family from Israel settle here in Australia - they wanted a new life for their children. We shared meals and celebrations and I asked them this question too. Now I'm asking you..
 

Angelika R. (146)
Monday November 19, 2012, 6:42 am
Dear Rabbi Arthur Waskow, please send prayers our way as you see what is happening here in this thread.
All your honest intention to spread the truth have been trampled on by people who refuse to see the truth.
Any further discussion seems entirely fruitless, nevertheless we/ I thank you and Carole for the honest effort to have tried at least.
On this day 6 of the new war we have 3 Israeli death vs. about 90 Palestinian death, nearly ALL CIVILIAN women and children. Is THIS to be called "defense"??
 

Just Carole (338)
Monday November 19, 2012, 6:55 am

Amen, Angelika!

 

Alexa R. (333)
Monday November 19, 2012, 9:41 am

Ros G. (30)
Monday November 19, 2012, 12:31 am
Alexandra R, You can really help me here because it all comes down to preception and understanding - not rhetoric or self-defense. I gave up years ago trying to get an understanding of Israel. What could never be answered is: how can so many people that are of different nationalities form a Country based on religion.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hi Ros. I can quite appreciate and understand your question in the light of this being another one of those lies that has been spread across the globe before the truth could even get it's pants on ..

I wish I could give you an answer from my heart alone as someone who has been born in Israel, alas I was not born in Israel although I've made Israel my home through marriage. So my answer would be a mixture of hearts between that of my mom-in-law who was born and brought up in Israel for over 3500 years and my own as part of her extended family:

The lie-part 1 that you’ve been told is that there is supposedly a resemblance between the Vatican and Israel. Israel does not have a pontiff at the head of all decisions secular and religious. Israel’s political part system is based on the Declaration of Independence, which established a democracy and was based on the UN vote that gave the Jewish people the right to establish a state and that this was irrevocable. It also made clear that there would be an elected Constituent Assembly in the form of a Parliament (Knesset) that would form the basis of a free and fair election (even Arabs, Christians, others are in the Knesset, not just Jews or Jewish priests – so quite unlike the Vatican!). Further, the Supreme Court would rule in disputes and ensure people’s rights were respected, and the President would be a purely ceremonial rule, in effect representing Israel (the complete opposite of the Pope in the Vatican who has the ultimate authority!) The Socialist vision of Zionism that was dominant at that time ensured the fully proportional nature of Israel’s system being based on freedom, justice, peace and equality for all inhabitants regardless of gender, race or religion.

Lie-part 2 that you’ve been told before the truth could even get its pants on is that Israel is a Jewish state in the religious sense. Israel is no more or less Jewish than American is Christian! Just because Netanyahu happens to be of the Jewish faith and Obama of the Christian faith! Then also, would you call the UK an atheist state just because its Prime-Ministers Cameron and Clegg happens to be Atheists? Or because the majority of UK citizens are atheist? How many atheist countries are there in the world (those with a non- or anti religious government: UK, many EU countries, China, Russia …)? And how about the 50 Muslim countries in the world?

I think what gives the lie-part 2 a ‘feel-good’ factor is that so many people do not realize that Jewish means both a culture/nationality and a religion. Whereas for Britain the two is more distinct, being British is more readily being accepted as not necessarily meaning you’re Christian.

So as regards to Israel, the fact that it just so happens to be that Judaism is the majority religion in Israel is neither here nor there .. just like the fact that Britain is majority atheist, or Russia, or Saudi Arabia predominantly Muslim, etc, etc …

Apologies to Just Carole in advance if my words had exceeded her limit for being considerate .. I tried to keep it as concise as I possibly could (removed a whole lot, so she can thank me for at least pretending to be considerate or something …)
 

Alexa R. (333)
Monday November 19, 2012, 9:45 am
Oops, it should read: ITS pants on NOT it's pants on...!
 

Just Carole (338)
Monday November 19, 2012, 9:49 am

Thank you, Alexandra.

 

Alexa R. (333)
Monday November 19, 2012, 11:59 am
Oops, it should read: Israel’s political PARTY system

NOT Israel’s political part system

Israel has a secular, democratic government and political party system ...

PS. Thank you for thanking me Just Carole ...

 

Ros G. (90)
Monday November 19, 2012, 9:40 pm
Alexandra R Many thanks for your reponse although I did find there was far to many words to wade through and still much rhetoric and self-defense for me to form an answer - and in the meantime many innocent people are still dying. Well I'll sign off with what My Zionist Jewish friend would say "Thank God- they're not Jewish lives, we are worth 10 x more than them " 3J to 90P I think the ratio has just gone up to 1:30. This is what all the outcry is about it's not about it's not Pro Muslim or Anti Jewish. Israel was formed in 1947 out of GOOD Faith and with that comes a DUTY OF CARE and that Duty of Care has been violated. If Israel can't see that the International community will.
 

Alexa R. (333)
Tuesday November 20, 2012, 6:44 am
Ros G. (30)
Monday November 19, 2012, 9:40 pm
Israel was formed in 1947 out of GOOD Faith and with that comes a DUTY OF CARE and that Duty of Care has been violated. If Israel can't see that the International community will.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Israel takes her dut of care very seriously! In spite of all the rockets, Israel still provides all thinks like water, electricity, aid, etc to Gazians .. Can ou give even one example of where Israel is not taking her duty of care seriously?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

As for the 3J to 90P firstly, the 3J is incorrect it is simply 2 Israeli civilians, it could be Christians, Arabs any one, what gave you the idea that they are specifically Jews?!? -- your friend in Australian might think Israeli lives are worth more than Gazian lives, we here in Israel certainly don't!)- Israel has targetted terrorist hide-outs and ammunition shelters. Even warned any civilians to get out of those areas before striking. (Hamas targets civilians without warning!) Israel tries to clear out the terrorists/weapons and thus save many Israeli lives whether Israeli Jews, Arabs, Christians or Atheists...

http://palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=157&doc_id=7996



by Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik



In response to Israel's Operation Pillar of Defense that aims to cripple the terrorist infrastructure in Gaza and protect Israeli civilians[NOT JUST JEWISH CIVILIANS], Hamas' military wing, the Al-Qassam Brigades, has produced videos addressing Israelis.

"From the Palestinian people to the Zionists: We've missed the suicide attacks. Expect us soon at bus stations and in cafés."

[Al-Aqsa TV (Fatah), Nov. 18, 2012]

~~~
emphasis mine
 

Alexa R. (333)
Tuesday November 20, 2012, 6:46 am
Oops it should read: Israel takes her DUTY of care very seriously!

NOT Israel takes her dut of care very seriously!
 

Alexa R. (333)
Tuesday November 20, 2012, 7:15 am
Oops it should read: As for the 3J to 90P firstly, the 3J is incorrect it is simply 3 Israeli civilians, it could be Christians, Arabs any one, what gave you the idea that they are specifically Jews?!?

 

Ros G. (90)
Tuesday November 20, 2012, 2:37 pm
I do apologise for this assumption the 3 Israeli civilians were Jewish. Since there were only 2 you will be able to tell me exactly who and what they were. "in spite of all the rockets" It is like me serving you a meal - it was a really delicious "in spite of the poison" in it. Yes, there are many good Israeli people that want peace for both sides. But in order for them to get it for their own families they migrate to other Countries. My new aquired Israeli friends (Jewish) - who were actually born there said: "you have to plan your escape carefully - so there is no repercussions for the ones you left behind" Sounds more like defection to me.
 

Alexa R. (333)
Tuesday November 20, 2012, 5:38 pm
I've no intention to abandon my country for any other random country, Ros.

Israel is the best country in the world according to me and I adore living here. I do desire peace with all my heart and believe with all my heart that it will be oneday, in the not so distant future ...
 

Just Carole (338)
Tuesday November 20, 2012, 5:49 pm

Bless your heart . . . and mazel tov, Alexandra.

"From your mouth to God's ear."

 

Ros G. (90)
Tuesday November 20, 2012, 7:31 pm
On that note I wish you the very best Alexandra - if we have people in Israel that truly want Peace then it will happen - become that MAJORITY...PEACE BEGINS WITH YOU. Green Star coming your way for that brief but very passionate posting. MAKE YOUR PASSION MOVES OTHERS. My job is done here Peace and Happiness to all.
 

Just Carole (338)
Tuesday November 20, 2012, 7:44 pm

As it should be.

I wish no ill will on those who promote peace and equality.

 

Just Carole (338)
Tuesday November 20, 2012, 7:52 pm

In fact, and in all reality, I wish no ill will on ANYONE (even those deluded fools who harm others).

I'm not a Christian (or any other religious follower), but I respect the right of all beings (human and animal) to live without cruelty.

We are blessed with so much beauty. I wish others could recognize the wonder of that, and challenge anyone who would deprive others of that freedom to experience it.

That would, truly, be a worthy mitzvah.



 

Nancy C. (798)
Wednesday November 21, 2012, 8:04 am
Thanx for promoting this article...Read from home email. There are at least 2 sides to any situation. Peace and safety to all.
 

Just Carole (338)
Wednesday November 21, 2012, 11:45 am
 
From Jewish Voice For Peace:
 
As I write this, a cease-fire agreement between Israel and Hamas has just taken effect. We hope and pray that it will hold.
 
Text of Israel-Hamas ceasefire agreement

(AFP) – 1 hour ago 

CAIRO — Israel and Hamas agreed Wednesday to an Egyptian-brokered ceasefire accord to end a week of violence in and around the Gaza Strip following days of marathon talks.

Here is the text of the ceasefire agreement which is set to take effect at 1900 GMT:

"Israel shall stop all hostilities in the Gaza Strip land sea and air, including incursions and targeting of individuals.

"All Palestinian factions shall stop all hostilities from the Gaza Strip against Israel, including rocket attacks and all attacks along the border.

"Opening the crossings and facilitating the movement of people and transfer of goods and refraining from restricting residents' free movements and targeting residents in border areas. Procedures of implementation shall be dealt with after 24 hours from the start of the ceasefire.

"Other matters as may be requested shall be addressed."

"Implementation mechanism.

"Setting up the zero hour understanding to enter into effect.

"Egypt shall receive assurances from each party that the party commits to what was agreed upon.

"Each party shall commit itself not to perform any acts that would breach this understanding. In case of any observations, Egypt as a sponsor of this understanding, shall be informed to follow up."

 

Fadi M. (37)
Saturday November 24, 2012, 4:46 am
Always happy to see brave people like Rabbi Arthur speak up to the truth regardless of which side it supports. Actually to me I celebrate and get much hope from people like Norman Finkelstein and many other brave activists who refuse to be sheeple to their own government or fall victims to mainstream media and deliberate ignorance. I am also against any form of killing under any kind of justification if it is not self-defense in its one and only true meaning, not on a state or army level where individuals can have lunch, sex, read a magazine, watch a movie, etc. while putting up a "self defence" killing strategy!

Having said that, I believe that if modern day human beings were to extinct, they will extinct for no reason other than ignorance itself, taking into consideration all the scary military technology put in the hands of brainwashed people who lack all sorts of compassion and humanity towards other human beings, and seem to be capable of processing limited forms of information such as strategy, military advantage, intelligence, allies, foes, diplomacy, surprise element, advanced weaponry and tactics… What a great shame that such people are able to decide our future and the future of our children, if there was one.

Unfortunately many good people have fallen victims to the propaganda machine that “Israel” (Once you read down further you will know why I put the word Israel between quotation marks) has been running for ages. It is the same propaganda machine that Rabbi Arthur here is exposing, and the same machine that caused countless wars and sufferings all over the world. I am not going to take you back to the days when “God” was a woman, no, I just want you to realize that the world we live in today is pretty much influenced in a very negative way by the male “God” that began to appear around 3800 years ago. However, let me spare you the details and get to the point.

One of the greatest lies and deceptive ideas that the state of Israel has managed to sell to the world is the claim of it being a homeland for the Jews. Well, to those who watch mainstream media this might sound like a realistic and legitimate claim, but to those who dig deeper in search of the truth, this claim is very much twisted and refuted. Why? The answer is simply because the founders of the state of Israel (Theodore Herzl, David Ben-Gurion, Golda Meir, Chaim Weizmann and others) have neither been Jewish in faith or practice, nor adhere to the teachings of Torah; they are Zionists who defiantly went against the Torah and against the true Jewish faith. This link will illustrate in simple words the history and relationship between Jews and other nations on one hand, and Jews and Zionists on the other hand. http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/zionism/notjews.cfm
Please take a moment to check it out and I promise you that most of your confusion about the conflict with Israel in the Middle East will disappear. You will also begin to realize why so many Rabbis and Jewish leaders all over the world are publicly opposed to the state of Israel and its entire existence.

I have many other links and articles to share with those who seek the truth and would like to get to the root causes of the problem. Of course it is no mystery that Israel can never establish itself without the financial funding, political and religious influence, thus, it would be naďve to assume that the founders of Israel I mentioned above had acted alone and managed to force their idea on the entire world. And this is where the role of the world’s secret government represented by several secret powers and institutions such as Order of the Freemasons and Order of the Illuminati comes into action (The same people who made it hard for you and me to survive in today’s world, and caused 46 million Americans to live on food stamps).

In your free time please do watch the following video, and I promise you it will enlighten you in many ways and broaden your perspective on the whole conflict in the Middle East. It is a speech by Dr. Mazin Qumsiyeh a Palestinian-American originally from Beit-Sahour (“Shepherds Field” where Jesus’ birth in Bethlehem was first announced by angels according to the Bible). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4z8zC05Hr0Y

I apologize for my long comment.

All the best!
 

federico bortoletto (34)
Saturday November 24, 2012, 7:04 am
Notato,bell'articolo.
 

Angelika R. (146)
Saturday November 24, 2012, 9:18 am
No need or reason to apologize, Fadi M., your valuable input is most appreciated! Thanks.
I just fear you may not be able to hold on to your promise as those of us who already know the truth, need not get convinced and all others have had their chance to SEEK AND FIND OUT the TRUTH, had they so wished !
That suggests they are actually resistant to learning the truth and it would be almost a miracle if the information you provide could serve to convince them and abandon their false believes. It MIGHT serve to some less biased view though.

Yes, the state of Israel has done a great job in selling basic lies for such a long time, but they couldn't have done it without the help of the media in both Israel and the USA.
This strategic pattern of continuous repetiions has brought the desired success up to a point where even the liars have forgotten the truth.
 

Allan Yorkowitz (453)
Monday November 26, 2012, 2:11 pm
Thank you Gillian,and Alexandra - two very gifted writers.
As Kit said in the very beginning, this was a good article about the causes....nothing more. Rabbi's are good at throwing out questions, without having an answer themselves.
 

Suheyla C. (229)
Saturday December 1, 2012, 9:20 am
No deaths of equality between the two nations.
Hunters always right.
I'm watching nature documentaries. Big fish eat little fish. Expanding the limits of the state of war. Which is the state of new settlements?
Stone and lead,
Impact equal reaction. Law of physics was a foul.
 

Just Carole (338)
Saturday December 1, 2012, 9:31 am

So well stated, Suheyla.

"Stone and lead" . . . but only a conquering spirit -- with no humanistic love.

I weep for the children (on both sides).

 

Suheyla C. (229)
Saturday December 1, 2012, 9:49 am
Thank you Carole
Yes...
In this war, no one wins. Both sides unhappy with the boy. And every human being, surrounded paranoid. Always be ready for battle.
 

Alexa R. (333)
Saturday December 1, 2012, 1:50 pm
Fadi M. (24)
Saturday November 24, 2012, 4:46 am
One of the greatest lies and deceptive ideas that the state of Israel has managed to sell to the world is the claim of it being a homeland for the Jews.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It's not a lie, it's the truth, read history. The lie is to deny that Israel is the homeland of the Jews.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fadi M. (24)
Saturday November 24, 2012, 4:46 am
The answer is simply because the founders of the state of Israel (Theodore Herzl, David Ben-Gurion, Golda Meir, Chaim Weizmann and others) have neither been Jewish in faith or practice, nor adhere to the teachings of Torah

~~~~~~~~~~

Not much has changed then: today we have the majority of Jews, the mainstay of those who oppose Israel as a homeland for the Jews are themselves neither Jewish in faith nor practice, nor adhere to the teachings of Torah .. with a few religious Jews/rabbis chipping in with them ..

Most of the rabbis I know are not against Israel as a homeland for the Jews ..
 
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