Friday June 6, 2008, 5:20 pm

Thank you, Mark, for entrusting me with the posting of your very well-written article.

Friday June 6, 2008, 5:24 pm
Thank you for posting, C, and thanks to JohnMichael for publishing.

This is one of those times when my writing skills have failed me. I know what I felt and what I wanted to say, I but I don't know if I actually managed to say it. Maybe the picture JohnMichael found says it all.

And yes, the story is fiction but the death squads are not. Please check the links at the bottom of the article.

Friday June 6, 2008, 5:27 pm
LMAO where'd ya get a pin like that...LOL OMG another super article and scary......

Big Gorilly Hugs

Friday June 6, 2008, 5:29 pm

The way things are going, we may ALL need one! LOL!

Friday June 6, 2008, 5:31 pm
A nation that rules by fear does so only because it fears the very people it claims to rule. That is what this story reminds me.

Friday June 6, 2008, 5:38 pm
Sighing with sadness at the imagery. Thanks, Mark.

Friday June 6, 2008, 5:42 pm
Great article as always Mark... I added a link to Iraq for Sale at the bottom also. On the page for the film there are some new videos about Blackwater from a recent Democracy Now program.

Friday June 6, 2008, 5:49 pm

David, such truth!

J-M, congratulations on another Mark/Truthawaits joint! (smile)

Friday June 6, 2008, 5:55 pm
That's very powerful, Mark. Thank you for sharing it.

Friday June 6, 2008, 5:57 pm
The only joints I... uhh... yeah. Spike Lee, great films. Thanks for posting Carole.

Friday June 6, 2008, 6:00 pm

(I'm glad someone got that! *chuckle*)

Friday June 6, 2008, 6:03 pm

I'll be offline for a few hours. I'm going to see a documentary film called "War on Democracy" about Venezuela. My apologies if I don't respond to anyone's comments in the meantime. I'll jump back online as soon as I get home.

Friday June 6, 2008, 6:04 pm

See ya later, Mark . . . Enjoy!

Friday June 6, 2008, 6:06 pm
Thank you *C* and Mark, As a nieghboring country's citizen, I am terrified those death squads will come over the border as could happen. Stephen Harper has signed the papers giving USA the right to come over and help, should there be an uprising here against anything big. Scary and not good.

Friday June 6, 2008, 6:06 pm
WOW..powerful and insightful! thankx to *C* and Mark, JohnMichael for the story/post. (and...yes, Mark YOU can write!, very well...) noted.

Friday June 6, 2008, 6:07 pm
Strange you should mention Venezuela. I will be in Caracas the week of June 15 to discuss Lakotah sovereignty, at the invitation of the national government of Venezuela. It is my hope that these initial discussions help to lead to the eventual establishment of friendly relations between the nations of Venezuela and Lakotah, including formal recognition of Lakotah sovereignty by the national government of Venezuela. Some nations still do cherish freedom and the potential of every human being in the world today. I hope for the day when we can again also speak of Turtle Island truly as a community of free and friendly nations.

Friday June 6, 2008, 6:08 pm

This, from one of my dearest friends -- and an educator -- a prized compliment!

Friday June 6, 2008, 6:12 pm

I'm lovin' this!

BTW, the last remark from me was intended for Gran Pat.

However, I consider David Alexander to be one of my valued friends/compatriots, and always admire his input. Thanks for weighing in, David.

Friday June 6, 2008, 6:39 pm
Noted, very well written. Scary as hell.

Friday June 6, 2008, 7:00 pm
Please don't be upset with me, if I read anything scary or bloody it takes me back to awful things of my pastof terrible things that happened to me as a child that nobody should write about or read, and those things I would rather not re-live. But if you said Mark wrote something worth reading I believe you. Sorry I guess you can call me a spoil sport. My humble apologits.
Tatiana

Friday June 6, 2008, 7:09 pm

Tatiana (holding you),

Who could be so unkind as to be upset with someone not wishing to relive horror?

Unfortunately, news is seldom good, nor kind, nor considerate... neither are the perpetrators.

The intended audiences for these stories are those -- unlike you -- who choose not to look, or believe, or change, or stop it from happening again.

My heart goes out to you (and I am crying as I write this, because I would never wish to impose pain on anyone so undeserving of it).

My dear friend, thank you for your honesty -- but, rejoice in the fact that others are reading this -- which may stop it from recurring.

Friday June 6, 2008, 7:19 pm
An excellent MUST READ by ALL!!!
Thanks you guys!!

Friday June 6, 2008, 7:23 pm
Leaves me speechless.... Tatiana, I am so sorry that you had to go through anything like what's in this story. Bless you. Thanks for opening our eyes...

Friday June 6, 2008, 7:28 pm
Carole, will you send me an IM please, I have a question 4 you, and the mail on here isn't working when I try to contact you.

Friday June 6, 2008, 7:30 pm

Shoot! I don't know how to do IM's (but give me a few seconds to figure it out.)

Friday June 6, 2008, 7:31 pm
Tell ya what, just email me... infowarpatriot@yahoo.com

Friday June 6, 2008, 7:57 pm
this is what the CIA and NSA do around the world in America's name -this is what the problem is and why we are hated- our CIA has been busy goverment building and destroying all over the world for a long long time now.They call it "protecting Us" What the world needs protection from is them and all those who think like them. It is my personal belief that they are insane and they prove it everyday.-Good story-Blessings All

Friday June 6, 2008, 8:13 pm
Well Mark you may think your writing skills have failed you, but they haven't in my opinion, That story was amazing. Perhaps it wsa fiction, but I've listened to too much Alex Jones by now to believe it's fantasy. It gets the point across loud and clear. Thanks so much for sharing it.

I agree, fear is what motivates people who need to rule by fear. I believe they dsserve to have every monkey wrench possible thrown into the mix to foil their agenda.

Friday June 6, 2008, 8:43 pm
This is beyond excellent.
Very powerful.
Should be read by EVERYONE, here on Care2.
Humbly, thank you.

Friday June 6, 2008, 8:46 pm

I do like that Mark. Thank you and also Carole and JohnMichael.

Friday June 6, 2008, 8:51 pm
Thanks Mark, well written story, very scary though, glad not to live there.

Friday June 6, 2008, 8:53 pm
You're a great writer Mark. Thank you Carole, for posting I've heard this story before - not exactly of course because this is fiction. There's a book by Paul Baker, whom I met and interviewed 18 years ago called 'Song in high Summer' which details first hand account of US death squads in El Salvador and El Salvador Cadres del Muerte in the USA 20 years ago. The age of safety and human rights and 'Lest We Forget' is over. The New Nazism is here. But what might we become if we can stand up to it and create a vision of our common humanity and the courage to go with that vision powerful enough to defeat it?

Friday June 6, 2008, 8:55 pm
Carol we really need to make some up...Really I would wear it and proudly...

Gorilly

Friday June 6, 2008, 8:56 pm
Did I negelect to say have pins made..thats what me meant....

Friday June 6, 2008, 9:28 pm
NOTED.
This is a scary country we live in, and MARK...awesome work of art and imagery yet we know it is so close if not the truth in those places no one wants to admit. Kudos! ITS A WAKE UP CALL.

Friday June 6, 2008, 9:43 pm

Just popped back in, after a brief absence.

What can I say? I LOVE these comments! (Will check with J-M to see if truthawaits.com can market the pins.)

Friday June 6, 2008, 10:46 pm

My apologies to Tatiana. But of course Carole is right--if people don't know they are paying for death squads, they will continue to do so.

Thanks to Gorilly, David, Pamela R., Karen, Black Tiger, Gran Pat, Pamela Wolfsong, Kathleen, Kathy, Eleda, Marian, Bea, Sara, and Wolfweeps for your kind words and astute comments. And thanks to all who have noted.

Faith wrote: this is what the CIA and NSA do around the world in America's name -this is what the problem is and why we are hated- our CIA has been busy goverment building and destroying all over the world for a long long time now.They call it "protecting Us" What the world needs protection from is them and all those who think like them. It is my personal belief that they are insane and they prove it everyday."

Yes, that is what the film I saw this evening was about, John Pilger's "The War on Democracy." All the democratically elected governments the United States has overthrown, all the fascist dictators we've installed, the thousands and thousands of innocent people our death squads have killed (sometimes we don't actually do the killing, we just train, arm, fund, and direct the killers), and the more than fifty countries in which the United States has intervened. They claim national security interest when they mean business interests. They are not insane, Faith, just amoral and avaricious, but that is indeed why we are hated.

We need to stop waiting for our government to change, pleading for our government to change, protesting our government for not changing, and voting in their rigged elections for candidate who say chance for are committed to war and business. We need to stop delegating our power because it has been sorely abused and take it back. We need to withdraw our support from this fascist government and learn to govern ourselves.

We're working on it. ;)

Friday June 6, 2008, 10:56 pm

Welcome back, Mark.

And you're right. Sadly so. Our governments are purposely ignoring us. How much more neglect of our pleas do we need before we are convinced. (and how many lives need to be lost before it becomes meaningful enough to act upon)?

Let's not take this to the point where the life has to be "our child" before we act.

Friday June 6, 2008, 11:05 pm
Carol and Mark..have not words-excellent..hard reading, but getting so much insight..
Thank you!

Friday June 6, 2008, 11:16 pm

I would say that I am rendered speechless and forlorn by "man's inhumanity to man." but that would be an understatement of gargantuan proportians.

What ego decided what life is worthy of continuing? And what people would elect that person as a spokesperson?

Friday June 6, 2008, 11:25 pm

WE ARE AWARE that atrocities and torture are being carried out daily in Guantanamo Bay . . . and YET IT CONTINUES;

WE ARE AWARE that 911 was in inside job, but was the impetus for the murders being committed in the Middle East . . . and YET IT CONTINUES.

STOP IT!!!!

Friday June 6, 2008, 11:28 pm

I am saddened beyond belief at the apathy of "good people" who refuse to look at the truth and allow innocent people to die as a result of their self-indulgent fantasies and refusals to look at reality.

Saturday June 7, 2008, 12:23 am
This may be 'fiction', however the truth which lies behind this short narative is being carried out on a regular basis. Excellent writing Mark, as I read I could 'see' the brightly colored garments worn by the Guatemalans and... unfortunately, the machine guns spitting their ammo into the innocent bodies of the villagers.
My thanks to Mark for passing this along, BMutiny for her notice, Just C for posting and of course... JM for his continued hosting of TRUTH articles.

Saturday June 7, 2008, 12:27 am

Bravo!
Succinctly said. Kim!

Saturday June 7, 2008, 12:31 am
Thanks for sending this story Carole, and thanks for the story Mark. Guatemala is a wonderful place that I've had the privilege of visiting often, but the civil war and death squads have left the country with a legacy of violence.

Saturday June 7, 2008, 1:55 am
Awesome imagery Mark; and Believeable as Well; I read your Comment on your writing skills Failing you; NO Way.!
Thanks to BMutiny for letting Me Know about this and Carole for posting it, JM for Hosting THE Truth...
I am Not as active in Here; as I once was; Since I discovered that I have a severe Stress related Bloodpressure Problem; and my caregiver duties Put enough stress on me.! I would Like to Get my crafts Biz Back off the ground But it Seems that in todays Economic and other Crisies It seems that Teaching Survival Skills and Tool making Classes Would be the Best way to direct my energiesAs well as Stockpiling Foods and Retrofiting atleast one of my vehicles for Hydrogen and another for Wood Fuel (the most plentiful fuels in my Area) WE need to Stop using Oil and Start Growing our own Foods; But Most of all we need to Prepare Caches Off our property pack medicines and Wound care tools withother light Survival Tools; and be Ready to Hit the Ground Running and Live in the Wilderness
( kind of hard to do if you Care for a paraplegic and her young son.! and live on a Penninsula with a 3 mile wide land Bridge; But if I can help others with thier preparations; maybe we can help each other Relocate to the Olympic mountains or the Cascades.!
While I don't consider myself A Fighter; I will when cornered or protecting my family; I do not Feel that Fighting is the answer But Surviving may require It.!..

Saturday June 7, 2008, 1:56 am

For those who would like to know more, I recommend the film I went to see, The War on Democracy by John Pilger. You can watch it on YouTube in ten parts here's part one:

The War On Democracy

What passed for civil war in many countries was either U.S. intervention or attempts by those countries to throw off U.S.-installed fascist dictators.

There are still some Americans who think that we're better than poor people in Latin American countries, when the only reason they're poor is that we've been killing them, taking their land, and stealing their resources so that we could be rich.

In one part of the film Pilger asks Hugo Chavez why there are still poor people in Venezuela. Chavez said that it wasn't necessary for people to be rich, but for them to have dignity. After the film, one member of the audience said that was terrible. Others tried to explain that materialism is not dignity. The poorest person in the worst shack in the most impoverished barrio in Venezuela has access to free health care, but in America we have people who live in big houses or sturdy apartment buildings, drive cars, own TVs, and do NOT have access to health care. What kind of dignity do you have when you know that any day you might become ill, have to pay for medical bills, could lose your home for missing a few months' rent or mortgage payments and become homeless? What good is being rich if you have no dignity and even the material things that you do have were stolen from others?

When we take indigenous people's land for mining or plantations, we take their dignity and they have to live in squalid shacks in barrios. While they have their land they may not have money, but they can grow their own food and not be dependent upon others. Capitalism takes away the land that lets people be self-sufficient, and then looks down on them for being poor. They don't hate us for our standard of living, they hate us for stealing their land. We have been very successful thieves and murderers, but what dignity is there in being a thief and a murderer?

Saturday June 7, 2008, 2:30 am

Thanks Adrian, and many thanks for your kind words, Kim and Rod. It took me so long to write my last comment that several posts crossed mine.

Somebody at the film was passing out flyers for the planned protests at the Democratic National Convention. I agree with everything they say, but I'm not sure I agree with what they're doing. As I said to their organizer, "I don't see how if will make me feel more free if you go to jail." Even to disrupt or protest the DNC just grants them legitimacy they don't deserve. And it accomplishes nothing that I can see. They won't change their agenda. Yes, it is an opportunity for activists to vent, but if that same energy went into building democracy instead of protesting fascism, I think it might be more productive.

I don't want to support, protest, or in any way acknowledge our bad government. I want to help educate Americans to self-empowerment and self-government so that we can replace it with a truly democratic system.

Isn't that what we're supposed to do when a government abuses its authority? We're not supposed to beg it, try to persuade it, or throw a temper tantrum to try to get it to do what it should, it is our duty to replace it with a government that will. Our government, of, by, and for us. We have to learn how to do what must be done instead of asking the President or Congress to do anything, because they won't. We are as good as they are--in fact most of us are better because most of us are less corrupt. They aren't important--they're nothing without us. If we ignore them, they'll be the ones asking, begging, and throwing temper tantrums to try to get OUR attention. And that will be the day democracy is born in the USA.

Rod, think about the possibilities if Venezuela grants recognition to the Lakotah nation. Awesome!

Saturday June 7, 2008, 7:33 am
This is manifest evil. Who needs horror movies in a world like this? Did you link to the site the article came from? I read one more article on it and that is all I could cope with. Education is one thing but we need to be strong enough to bear the knowledge. Then we need to know what to do with it. It is one of the dilemmas we have as activists, to find those seemingly tiny opportunities to act against a monster bigger and nastier than anything on the screen.

I have probably mentioned Sister Dianna Ortiz before. She was kidnapped and tortured in Guatemela. There's a summary and a link to detailed information on my site, http://athousandarms.com There is also a book about the horrors she suffered. Blindfold's Eyes: My Journey from Torture to Truth.

Saturday June 7, 2008, 7:39 am
Oh! Ok, I didn't notice the bit about it being fiction but was completely willing to believe it because it is the reality of too many people. Don't think it can't happen to Americans in Guatemala or any of the other places America is carrying out that kind of filthy behaviour. My link above will take you to Dianna Ortiz's story. That one is real. No, I'm not trying to get links for my website. The website is about letting people know and makes me nothing. Well done Mark. you fooled me but you are a truthsayer and not really a fiction writer. You just found a great way to communicate a truth.

Hugh

Saturday June 7, 2008, 7:52 am
I don't know what is transpiring? I wrote this after Mark sent out his post to me, and did not see it posted. I sent it several times again but still did not see it; and then posted it to Mark. Hopefully it will be received ?

Tatiana

Dear Mark and Fellow Members
It is not that I am ignorant of or about death squads; it is the ugliness and horror of it all and lasting impressions way after these ruthless acts of murder. My dad lived through the Russian revolution as a teen and all of those death squads, in fact in reality actually escaping from a firing squad, etc.etc.etc. - Oh yes and without going into much detail, a dear friend's brother in law was beheaded by a death squad in Central America. Yes, I am fully aware of 'death squads' for real and my heart sinks to know that even a thread of those sworn to 'allegiance' in freedoms name, took part in such heinous actions. There are so many other horrid issues to date that makes me sick at heart and I wonder how we came to be so blood thirsty, without conscience yet continue on, 'in the peoples name' ?

Just a few in representation of our government who chose to take over 'operations' acting wantonly for self purposes, anything but with the peoples vote, taking us down a labyrinth and death slide for ages to come. This so called 'leadership' of our peoples, are wrapped up in a deadly game play that has taken our young, our best of the future without apology to their parents, their wives, or children, without coverage of those who served their best, and their gaping wounds, without long time care in repayment in any way ready and available long term.

As these 'chosen leaderships' have gathered together, they go without regard pushing everyone in their way ruthlessly asunder; they have stolen our freedoms at home and any banked interests left for the peoples future and trashed for a fairthy-well everything that our democracy ever stood for. I shudder every time I hear the ringing voice of our leader?.... talking about 'the architect' when you know this architect and those along with him, well in essence their whole program was and is about destroying, not building goodness.

My tears are backlogged when I think of how we the peoples did not ready ourselves for such duplicity of leadership, but allowed us finally to realize that the peoples that have been our real enemies are the ones we have elected ourselves to take over public trust.

From light into blackness we have traversed as a peoples, as a nation, fractured, split, wounded in every way, traumatized from family members thrown into unwanted wars, to families unable to defend themselves from economic woes, with back to back issues that will leave our children's children paying off our debts; and countless thousands unable to afford an educational avenue that could free them from these unrelenting, unforgiving hardships.

We have become a nation of anything but with or if national unity. Most of all I mourn the youth who have become so fearful of the future, they have turned to drugs and alcohol to dull the pain of having to face an unknown future. I do not cry for myself, I cry for our children, and why the 'architects' of this administration chose to place our children, in such a place of agony, in such a place where globally people will continue to mistrust them because of our inability to have stopped the ruthless savagery of leadership presently in place.

I think of the private documents signed into place without the peoples vote, and wonder all the more, why our voices have been relegated to mere whispers like old men and women, and our ability to act with clarity 'over ruled by the dominating features of anarchy in America's oval office' ?

Oh yes i know about the history of death squads, but more importantly like all of you, I know it is time to stop all at the top and allow the people's of this country to bring those who have in every way disgraced this country in every way, and bring them to justice. We cannot continue to allow these blatant crimes to be swept under the rug. These crimes are unforgiveable. If we do not clean out these wounds that remain in the heart of the American heartland, and we allow decay to continue to set in, then we deserve all that we have been met with so far in terms of evil.

The bottom line of all of this and any peoples yearning to be free, stay free is to follow through with due process of law. We cannot continue to be lenient, or keep giving any types of pardons.
Nobody should be above the law, nobody!

I think we need to bring sanity back to this nation and all its branches of government. Until we do this, nobody will ever be able to look each other in the eye and be proud to say, 'i'm a proud American'. Right now, I am not proud of what this countries leadership has done in our names. For all they have done, it certainly did not have my approval, and from what I read here, I know your approval is anything but behind such duplicity ongoing.

It is time to close, but again you have made me write and think of things I know I must come to terms with. If someone had told me even twenty-five years ago, I would be writing this or thinking like this I would have told them they are mistaken. But if i am to accept reality, I know it is my reality and in part I must take responsibility and help to make the changes for a better America.
Each one of us must. It is not a question of if, but a question of when. Thanks for your ears and so sorry for my thoughts being so long.

Tatiana



- Show quoted text -
On Fri, Jun 6, 2008 at 10:46 PM, Care2 wrote:

Hi Tatiana -
Mark has sent you a message:
Hi Just,

Mark S. left a comment on the following article:


The Unmaking of an American
The next thing I remember was awakening to loud noises, screams, and machine gun fire. I was too paralyzed with shock and fear to move, which may have been what saved my life. But there were holes in the floor of the loft, which appeared to have been...


Comment:

My apologies to Tatiana. But of course Carole is right--if people don't know they are paying for death squads, they will continue to do so. Thanks to Gorilly, David, Pamela R., Karen, Black Tiger, Gran Pat, Pamela Wolfsong, Kathleen, Kathy, Eleda, Marian, Bea, Sara, and Wolfweeps for your kind words and astute comments. And thanks to all who have noted. Faith wrote: this is what the CIA and NSA do around the world in America's name -this is what the problem is and why we are hated- our CIA has been busy goverment building and destroying all over the world for a long long time now.They call it "protecting Us" What the world needs protection from is them and all those who think like them. It is my personal belief that they are insane and they prove it everyday." Yes, that is what the film I saw this evening was about, John Pilger's "The War on Democracy." All the democratically elected governments the United States has overthrown, all the fascist dictators we've installed, the thousands and thousands of innocent people our death squads have killed (sometimes we don't actually do the killing, we just train, arm, fund, and direct the killers), and the more than fifty countries in which the United States has intervened. They claim national security interest when they mean business interests. They are not insane, Faith, just amoral and avaricious, but that is indeed why we are hated. We need to stop waiting for our government to change, pleading for our government to change, protesting our government for not changing, and voting in their rigged elections for candidate who say chance for are committed to war and business. We need to stop delegating our power because it has been sorely abused and take it back. We need to withdraw our support from this fascist government and learn to govern ourselves. We're working on it. ;)




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--
Tatiana A Kostanian
MHONA International

Saturday June 7, 2008, 8:07 am
Tatiana, I honour your courage in overcoming the pain of your own experience and knowledge so as to speak here. Thank you.

Saturday June 7, 2008, 8:15 am
My mother's family left the Uraine during the Stalinist purges and some of the sotries I have been told are horrifying. There was a film out some years ago about GHW Bush and his associations with events in Central or South America but the name of the film escapes me now. If most Americans really knew what our tax dollars are paying for I dare say there would be many more who would stop paying them yearly. Thank you for this excellent article, Carole......

Saturday June 7, 2008, 8:15 am
Oh, it's working, hooray! Thanks Hugh M.
The most important thing about psychic wounds IS to overcome them and move on however possible. We may never forget, but we must also be able to learn to balance how we see the world with equitable balance. Working to offer only vengence or to be filled with spite offers society nothing nor ourselves. I have experienced much, but still learning the enterity of what those lessons offered in full. Those experiences are anything but short lived. In some ways it has offered me almost a psychic ability about life and things. It's hard to explain but I have experienced strange phemonema of sorts in regards to understanding daily interfaces with and of human connect. I know that sounds strange and off the wall but it is true. It is all the more reason I tread lightly and offer only what I know is and will be of positive concern as well avenues in which to help add salve to deep wounds of those who have gone through life's 'difficult' moments. Oh boy, is life the best teacher and then some.
Well, nice to meet you Hugh M and welcome aboard : )
Tatiana

Saturday June 7, 2008, 8:50 am

Thank you Tatiana and Hugh.

Sister Dianna Ortiz appears in Pilger's film. I hope everyone will watch it.

Tatiana wrote: "
My tears are backlogged when I think of how we the peoples did not ready ourselves for such duplicity of leadership, but allowed us finally to realize that the peoples that have been our real enemies are the ones we have elected ourselves to take over public trust."

As self-centered, ignorant, and materialistic as many Americans are, we did NOT elect these people. Even if we had wanted to, we couldn't have. Our Constitution does not allow us to even vote for President and Vice-President. When you cast a vote for Obama or McCain, or for a third party candidate, you are not voting for them, you are voting for the slate of Electors to the Electoral College chosen by the political party to which those candidates belong. The names of the Electors are not on the ballot, which in a democratic form of government would be considered fraud. Can I put your name on the ballot and then count all the votes for you as really being votes for me? That is fraud. But according to the Constitution the Electoral College does NOT have to elect the same people the voters chose, Congress does NOT have to accept the vote of the Electoral College, and, as happened in 2000, if the losing political party appeals to the Supreme Court, they can select the President themselves and there is no possible appeal from a Supreme Court ruling. They are not elected by or accountable to the people--Supreme Court justice is a patronage position for a President's cronies, not an elected position. But even so, our votes are counted secretly inside computerized voting machines and central tabulators, and as Stalin said, it isn't the votes that count, it is who counts the votes. By the time we can prove that an election was stolen, more trillions of dollars have been stolen and millions more innocents have been killed in wars of aggression by the unelected "leaders."

That's why it is important for us NOT to vote in rigged elections, NOT to acknowledge a government we did NOT elect (and couldn't if we wanted to because our founders did not trust ordinary people to govern themselves and wrote a Constitution that gave the final say to the wealthy elite), and to learn the skills of democracy ourselves so that we will no longer be subject to the whims of murderous unelected "leaders."

I invite those interested in citizen-owned transparent participatory democracy to join our group:

NO in NOvember

We need to stop wasting our time calling on an unaccountable President and Congress, relying on a totally corrupt "justice" system, and voting in rigged elections. Government of the people, by the people, and for the people, does not mean government by the military-industrial complex, the big nultinational corporations, the political parties, or the candidates they bankroll, give media coverage to, and program the voting machines to "elect." It does not mean government by Clinton, Bush, Obama, or McCain.

The corrupt government owns the voting machines, so if you vote in their rigged elections, no matter who you vote for, they win. The only options on the ballot are war and more war, so if you care about peace, care about humanity, and want to end the torture and the death squads, you will not vote in an election where the only choices are war and more war. War is NOT less evil than more war. Those are NOT the only options available to a free people in a democracy. An uncounted or miscounted vote is NOT a voice in government and nobody ever fought and died for the right to have their vote go uncounted or miscounted by crooked elections officials and their sleazy voting machines.

Saturday June 7, 2008, 10:42 am
At times I am suspicious, that one "happy" result for the Bushco mis-Administration, of the Afghan and Iraq endless wars and continuous re-deployments, is, to KILL OFF and NEUTRALIZE {thru permanent wounds, brain damage and psychological damage}, any American fighting force of young people that could eventually PROTECT truly democratic citizens trying to make changes. In other words, to erode as much as possible, a healthy generation of American young fighting men and women, so that they can't possibly fight their own government and are a drain on their families and communities, rather than a protection.
As long as all the LETHAL FORCE is on the side of the oppressor, then we will all be at the mercy of the government. They won't PLEAD for our attention, Mark, they will come stomping in and break down our doors as in your story!!!
We have to UN-BRAINWASH our soldiers, first and foremost, so that they DON'T FIGHT FOR THE OPPRESSOR, either abroad, or at home. Brainwashed troops fired on, and killed, un-armed demonstrators at Kent State University in the '60's; brainwashed troops COULD HAVE, but DIDN'T, come to the rescue of Katrina victims -- instead, soldiers based nearby blindly and stupidly followed orders to DO NOTHING for their suffering, dying fellow-citizens.

ONLY UN-BRAINWASHED, DIS-OBEYING TROOPS will REFUSE to storm in and smash any Democratic resistance that Mark or Rod or any of you, might be able to put together!
It might VERY WELL COME TO THIS: THAT THE TROOPS COMING OVER TO THE SIDE OF THE PEOPLE, WILL HAVE TO DEFEND THE PEOPLE AGAINST MERCENARIES, DEATH SQUADS, BLACKWATER. As Mark so ELOQUENTLY points out, anything the govt does ABROAD, they can do HERE as well! {And they HAVE, but only against minorities and "wackos", so we didn't notice very much. How many heard about, or cared about, Ruby Ridge, or Waco, or Randy Weaver?}
It is up to US to tell OUR TROOPS of the DUPLICITY AND LIES of our mis-government. Up to US; who ELSE is going to do it?

According to a Veteran recently back from Iraq who is on a speaking tour, whom I talked to, THERE HAVE ALREADY BEEN, IN IRAQ, ARMED STAND-OFFS BETWEEN AMERICAN TROOPS AND BLACKWATER MERCENARIES.

Altho the Resistance WANTS to be non-violent, THEY WILL USE VIOLENCE AGAINST US. Let us make sure that it is NOT our own sons and daughters who are their puppets. Let us INFORM THE TROOPS whose side is the Real Democracy!

Saturday June 7, 2008, 11:38 am
For a long time I considered the purpose of this continued war, and especially the use of extended deployments, as intended to destroy the existing army and hence make it "necessary" and "essential" to supplant the U.S. volunteer army, with it's oath to the constitution, with private corporate mercenary forces, who, of course, are only loyal to their paymasters.

Saturday June 7, 2008, 12:32 pm
Noted. Masterfully written, Mark...prose is, indeed, your servant. Thanks to 'C' and J-M for getting this superb story out there...as a trio of musketeers you are a formidable group for the power of truth and commitment. I salute you all! Mark, this should go out to the larger body politic and I hope a wire service will pick it up.

Saturday June 7, 2008, 4:30 pm
thank you Mark, and Carole, for sharing this, and Bmutiny for forwarding

Saturday June 7, 2008, 4:56 pm

Thanks Evert Jan and BMutiny.

David, I agree with your thinking. The elite want to privatize everything so that they can own the world. Heck, they've already privatized the White House, the Supreme Court, Congress, most State and municipal legislatures, and our elections. They've privatized land, food, clothing, shelter, health care, and are trying to privatize water. Given a chance, they'll privatize air and we'll have to pay them for every breath we take. As polluted as our air is now, several people in my building with chronic respiratory diseases already pay for oxygen so that they can breathe--the oxygen tank truck stops by regularly.

Thank you for your kind words, Carolyn. Unless the White House, the Pentagon, or a right-wing think tank pays them to publish something, the privatized mainstream media isn't likely to look at it, but it's a nice thought.

Saturday June 7, 2008, 4:58 pm

"Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of State and corporate power." ~ Benito Mussolini

Saturday June 7, 2008, 7:07 pm
Reading this I've just had a nice thought. I don't agree that not voting achieves anything Mark. In Australia we sometimes register a protest by going to the booth and making an 'informal' vote, writing 1,2,3,... or 1,1,1,1,1. It takes a lot of administrative time and is listed in the count as informal. The numbers of informal can be a statement. That's not my nice thought, however. My nice thought is this. How can we petition the UN to put observers into the United States to ensure the voting process is fair? Given that the evidence for rigged elections is substantial there should be a case. Am I right? There are a lot of erudite people on this forum, informed clear thinkers. Who can take this further?

Saturday June 7, 2008, 7:21 pm

Hugh, my valued friend,

I refer to this "argument" taking place at another venue, rather than being redundant:
Uncounted - The New Math of American Elections
http://www.care2.com/news/member/913247284/761687

Saturday June 7, 2008, 7:48 pm
Mark, in the case of the military, I think their desire is to create one they can safely use to quell domestic dissent, that is willing to kill fellow American citizens. The current volunteer one, even with it's intense psychological conditioning, is not nearly as well suited to such a task as a privatized mercenary one would be.

Saturday June 7, 2008, 7:52 pm
Noted! Thanks Mark and Carole for posting this. This is the type of story that is not only thought provoking but it slaps you so hard right across the face that I have to wonder who in their right mind could ignore it? I certainly can't and won't.

Saturday June 7, 2008, 7:55 pm
Elle, thank you!

David, absolutely right! (and what is fascism, but intimidation?) Blackwater is alive and thriving.

Tell the truth! (And you do -- thanx, David.)

Saturday June 7, 2008, 9:01 pm

Hugh?
Come back! (or I'll be forced to "visit you" in the other discussion. LOL)

Saturday June 7, 2008, 11:25 pm
Mark, a very well written article. I believed it to be a true account, as I know it was, somewhere today. It's obvious that you were MEANT TO WRITE, and situations forced that to fruition. Thank you *C* for posting and your comments and JohnMichael for TruthAwaits. This cooperation is exactly where we should be!
Agree with Stephanie Colson and Black Tiger. Scary stuff. If Americans riot, etc. here, Canadian Military forces have the same authority to come over the border and act against U.S. citizens in tandem with the U.S. Military.
Peace to Tatiana, and thank you for your personal story and insight. Thanks to all commentators.
Prayers for all survivors of these atrocities all over the world.
This Daily Worldwide Murder Cull must be recognized by all world citizens, and we must all do our part to resist the Machine.
Giant Tent city already filling up in Civic Center Park in Denver to house all the protestors coming in August! I hope it will be Rad~ical! Plus, off topic Denver Modernism show that week........... Rebellion and Retro, we've got it all in Denver. Seriously, thank you everyone.......Peace out.

Sunday June 8, 2008, 12:02 am

Thank you, Sandra.

For more information about the planned DNC protest in Denver, visit:

Sunday June 8, 2008, 12:05 am

Oops, I messed up the link.

For more information about the planned DNC protest in Denver, visit:

dncdisruption08.org

From the Disrupt DNC brochure:

"We vote NO to war and occupation. We vote NO to capitalism. We vote NO to racism. We cote NO to gender binaries. We vote NO to prison. We vote NO to eco-devastation."

There's a lot more great stuff on their site, but I can't copy .pdf files.

Obviously they are not going to accomplish anything by disrupting a political convention, other than getting some media coverage. As I told one organizer, I don't see how her going to jail would make me feel any more free.

They are open to our NO in NOvember strategy, but they are still focused on strategies that have been proven not to work. As the Pilger film points out, the death squads continued through both Republican and Democratic administrations. It would be nice if we could have somebody in Denver to let people know about NO in NOvember, just in case they get bailed out and want something to think about before the RNC protest.

While I support their efforts, I think that organizing a democratic form of government would be more productive than protesting fascism. Confrontations always lead to violence. But good ideas can replace bad ideas without confrontation and nothing can stop an idea whose time has come.

Sandra, please join our group NO in November

Sunday June 8, 2008, 12:25 am
I don't care what a bunch of elitists and their fools, clinging desperately to a fascist system, do at their stupid convention. I see no reason to draw attention to it or to grant it any importance.

If we work on citizen-owned transparent participatory democracy, we can replace a corrupt, elitist system with a democratic system. The Disrupt DNC folks know full well, and state clearly on the cover of their brochure, that "the democrats won't stop the war, end the occupations, abolish prisons, create joyous self-sustaining communities, destroy capitalism, re-wild the earth, tear down the border walls, end white supremacy, smash the police state..." but they say that they can. Don't be silly. They know that the DNC isn't going to change its agenda or put peace on the ballot. Only people can do that and that takes constructive action, not reactionary protests.

If mommy and daddy won't let me go play with my friends until I do my homework, I can cry, scream, throw a temper tantrum, hit them, bite them, hold my breath until I turn blue in the face, but at best they'll restrain me and take me to a psychiatrist for meds, and if they aren't progressive, they'll risk losing custody by giving me the spanking I deserve. They're not going to let me go play without first doing my homework. I think that if we want to go play, we'd better do our homework first.

Sunday June 8, 2008, 12:47 am
Thank you Mark. I tried both links, but no go. I'll try tomorrow, or look online, I'm curious, I haven't heard of Disrupt DNC as a name of a group! Only that CodePink and many more groups will be here. The homeless usually cannot sleep in this park, but they have been invited by the protestors to do so, all inclusive! Yah!
Agree with you we need REAL CITIZEN DRIVEN changes. I've been assured by a Councilperson our paper ballots are secure, and will be counted on an optical scanner, which has a paper reciept. And I know from you Mark, that that optical scanner is riggable. So it is all BS, I know it. At the least, I hope a lot of progressive messages get out there during this time. The sheeple need to realize the death squads will be here soon. This is one big global genocide. I just finished YouTube "Secret Rulers of the World". Seems right on to me. What else explains all of it?
I promise I will check out the group NO in November, even though I don't look at one group I'm in because the NEWS rivets me and takes all my time on here until the witching hour which is NOW! Buenos Noches!

Sunday June 8, 2008, 1:18 am

Try copying the line below and pasting into your browser:

dncdisruption08.org

you can also email them for info: unconventionaldenver@riseup.net

Carrying my mommy/daddy analogy a bit farther, if we happen to be old enough and mature enough, we can move out and not have to ask them for anything. But I've never heard of fascists giving in to tantrums. Authoritarian and totalitarian governments don't do that. This happens to be a case where BMT's reasoning is correct. Mass protest only works if it really has an overwhelming majority of the public. Other tactics don't require that everybody do it, but if you want to do civil diobedience and not encounter repression, you need millions of people, not just a few hundred thousand. They DNC protesters are exprecting repression. They have legal and medical help from the People's Law Project and the Colorado Street Medics Association. And they advise people to have bail money.

Their stated goals are to be disruptive and confrontational, not to educate and empower for real change. They WANT real change, but they don't pretend that protests will bring it about.

I'd guess that some of the groups who will be protesting, like CODE PINK, are dedicated to working within the system. They like to protest legislators and get arrested, run for office, etc., but they don't really want to change the system, or they are foolish enough to think that they can change it by working within it. I will never understand why they continue to vote for the people who continue to have them arrested, unless it is just another phony con game, like pro-wrestling, where people pretend to fight each other in order to get suckers to pay a lot of money to watch. There's no way you would get me to vote for anyone who had me arrested because I want peace and they want war, even if their opponents had had me arrested five times as often and were in favor of seven more wars. I don't vote lesser evil. In fact, I no longer vote at all. If peace isn't on the ballot, they can take their election and shove it.

Sunday June 8, 2008, 2:31 am
Thank you Just Carole and Mark, that was an excellent article! I'm glad you clarified it was false or it would have been real easy to believe! Noted and thanks!

Sunday June 8, 2008, 4:13 am
Just Carole,
You know I'll always be there for you darling *hug*. Though I live in a different time warp... oops... zone it doesn't mean I'm not there. This posting and the comments exemplify why I am now addicted to Care2 and the company of you an Mark and the rest of you and catch up daily on what I have missed because of the time zone thing. I'm always with you in spirit.

Sunday June 8, 2008, 7:37 am
When I think about this new and wonderful movement, "No in November", in truth I have become philosophically opposed to electoral forms of democracy for a number of reasons, as apposed to either participatory or direct forms, either of which are both facilitated and practical today by technology and social changes that may not have been as possible to do in times past. Besides problems with both how choice is made and controlled by political parties long before people get an infrequent choice to pick from pre-handpicked candidates, and the various means the process is and can be manipulated, there is the basic problem in the first place of empowering a separate political class, who's interests are vastly different than that of the population they "claim" to represent.

A "No in November" campaign should not just be about what is wrong, in identifying the problem, but also should offer and focus people on what the solution should be, should offer and explain what a true democratic political system really is. Of course, I do not believe political freedom, equality, and democracy can ultimately survive without also achieving economic democracy, whatever means are used to achieve it.

Sunday June 8, 2008, 12:43 pm

I agree, David, but in order for economic democracy to be established through democratic means, people need to be empowered and educated. If we can get people to withdraw their support from the corrupt government and start to trust themselves with self-governance, I believe that they will know what their needs are and how to best fulfill them.

Most Americans want an end to the wars and a national health care plan, but many haven't fully realized that this can not be achieved by petitioning, protesting, or voting for parties and candidates beholden to the military-industrial complex and the big corporations. If they had a real voice in government, the wars would end and we'd have a national health care plan tomorrow. So we need to help people to understand that an uncounted vote is not a real voice in government and that nobody can give us our unalienable rights--we have to actualize them ourselves.

Sunday June 8, 2008, 12:56 pm
Noted/thank you Mark (great write)(it is scary but I think we in the USA need to wake up and be afraid, very afraid) and thank you Carole for posting.

Sunday June 8, 2008, 12:59 pm
I will add----we need to be afraid, but we cannot live in fear, that is not living, we need to take any and all action that we can.

Sunday June 8, 2008, 1:29 pm
David & Mark, I agree whole heartily with what you've posted, education of the voters is the key to reformation of a true republic, however... how do you educate people who have been subjected to such intense propaganda resulting in nearly total brainwashing?
Let's face it, Big Bu$$ine$$ owns America, from how we think and act. So how do those of us who feel this form of govt. is wrong reach out to the 'Sheeple' of the US and get them to open their mind to reality? Again, the reality America is owned, lock, stock and barrel by those who see govt as a way to $$$(profit).
We're on the same page guys, I am truly shocked by the current state of the nation and the world because of it!
LIFE
LIBERTY
AND THE
PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS!
(happiness does not include the exploitation of others)


You know there really is still a chance for peace and that chance will definitely increase if we each do our piece. So let’s make peace -- in our homes, in our own hearts, in our relationships, in our communities, in all of our dealings and in the world. Peace be with us all.

Monday June 9, 2008, 7:35 pm
Dennis Kucunich is reading the articles of impeacxhment on C-SPAN CHANNEL RIGHT NOW.
HERE IS THE LINK:
http://www.c-span.org/watch/cspan_rm.asp?Cat=TV&Code=CS

Monday June 9, 2008, 9:03 pm
Thanks so much about the C-Span - I got to see and hear just to the point when he stated the last count of impechment after 9/11 and then the video froze on me. But I must say it was good to hear finally someone taking the prez and the vp to task in front of the country. We have been waiting too long for justice to advance forward. Now my toes are crossed that it will go through. Thanks again.

Wednesday July 16, 2008, 8:31 pm
Noted with thanks Carole, truthawaits is currently offline, I will have to go back later to read the article.