Sunday July 21, 2013, 2:32 am
Watching Barack Obama’s comments about the travesty of Zimmerman’s acquittal, after murdering Trayvon Martin, I think Obama went out of his way to avoid offense. His comments were respectful, low key and hopeful. Of course, no matter what he said, racist hatemongers from the Republican propaganda mill were sure to take offense, such as these four examples.
Sunday July 21, 2013, 4:19 am
I'm going to say first that in my mind even watching all the TV that I do, I am NOT sure what African Americans actually want to be called. Black seems derogatory of itself and they are most certainly no longer African but AMERICAN. WE ARE ALL AMERICANS...period. So how do I say what I want to say ? I'll try.
I am very PROUD of Barrak Obama....the man. As President, I may not always agree with his decisions. Hell, the man IS a politician but I have always liked him as a person. I have always felt like I could say "Hi" if he were near enough for me to speak to. His "color" never enters my mind when I regard him as a person. However, people DO draw lines.
I understand the African Descendant American (?) in this country that sees him as only black because TOO many people in this country still carry the "even a drop" theory in their hearts therefore anyone who does carry a "drop" is theirs. It is so ingrained that it seems natural for them to do so.
In America, the white half simply isn't seen and seeing only the OBVIOUS "drop" that makes him "different" PROVES how very very RACIST we ALL can be.
Now, I am NOT SURE that I explained my thoughts very well here but I can assure you that ANYONE who hates, denigrates, judges, etc., etc., etc., other people SOLELY on their LOOKS/COLOR are WRONG.
The people who write this kind of drivel and their ilk are downright PATHOLOGICALLY WRONG !!! and it is not just their words but their DEEDS that prove it.
Oh gee I hope I said all this right cause politically correct can be a twister and sometimes, I must confess, can be a real pain in the ......
Sunday July 21, 2013, 5:02 am
I completely agree TC – and Patty's comment is utterly BRILLIANT! As TC says the Right will wilfully misunderstand every word President Obama says – hopefully there are enough sane people out there to hear him! As usual the Right are blaming everyone else for what they are doing themselves.
Sunday July 21, 2013, 5:39 am
Obama, the POTUS, positioned himself as a race baiter. President Obama knows that a court of law simply could not find the hard evidence to convict Zimmerman. However, the black community has placed a great deal of pressure on him to step forward and take a stand "for his people" which he has done while putting his intellectual side in a drawer. This is political. This is about votes in 2014 and 2016. Make no mistake about it. It mirrors the immigration issues we are discussing today. Votes it is all about the votes.
The only people who can help change the climate for the black community are the black people themselves. We need to look no further than Washington DC to see highly accomplished African Americans in high level positions. We have to look no further than our universities to find African American professors and in our schools as teachers and centers of influence, economists, surgeons, military officers....and keep looking because they are no different than the white community. They wanted to be successful and succeeded.
As long as the black communities continue to ignore personal responsibility and dismiss the many tools they have in front of them to rise to a higher level of income then they will continue to spiral downward and turn on each other as we have seen in Chicago...killing their own. Many black males aren't the head of households but have fathered many children by different women. They are their own worst enemy. They can't blame white people for that. They have only to look in the mirror to find out why they have chosen to fail in life and bring children into the world who will always be at a disadvantage because they will never have role models in their lives to move them forward. It's a learned behavior and, yes, we all know that whether we are a democrat or a republican.
None of us here today know anything slavery. Yet, this is the fuel that continues to flame the racial divide...slavery of all things. The race card is worn and tattered and has no significant meaning to Americans today. Even Obama said about his two children that they are so far above racism and have a healthy handle on life in America. (my own words as I don't have the actual quote to share at the moment).
Stop making excuses for the slackards in America. They make their own choices. Our country cannot force people to want to have better lives. We can only offer them the right tools for success. If they reject those tools then they reject them. Leave them alone and pay attention to those who DO want a better life. That, to me, is a better use of our time.
Sunday July 21, 2013, 5:51 am
Either that, or you have been hitting the blender drinking last night's Margarita's for breakfast on a Sunday morning- rather than going to church like a devout Christian.
Sunday July 21, 2013, 5:59 am
The president spoke from experience and from the heart - he addressed issues that too many pretend do not exist. We should all be proud of him.
Diane - African Americans are trying to tell us what happens to them - you are not listening. You are not African-American so how can you possibly know what challenges they face? You continue to make all the assumptions white people make - and in my book, that's racism.
Sunday July 21, 2013, 6:39 am
No, Arielle, it's not racism. I am a realist. We aren't talking about racism. We are talking about the black culture. All across our country we have different ethnicities. Whether we want to accept the fact that we have gangs of different cultures...black, Asian, Hispanic etc.....and if they were are dressed like thugs parents of all color and ethnicities are going to squeeze the hands of their children to get them out of harm's way. It's a culture. If these same ethnicities are not thugs and dressed like thugs there is no danger to anyone. This is the way people think. This isn't just about black people who have chosen a path of destruction because they aren't alone. People of all color make very bad life choices for themselves. Right now we are talking about Trayvon Martin. We could just as easily be talking about Hispanics who are a threat to law abiding people because of their chosen activities. Personally, I would be very afraid to be in area where there were white gangs covered in tattoos and dressed like thugs. We have Americans who are terrified to be on airplanes with people dressed like Muslims due to the terrorism we have faced over the past decade. They aren't black. It's the culture of these people that give some pause and they are frightened by them. When a country has been terrorized the way ours has it's normal not to have a warm and fuzzy feeing about that culture. What happened in Boston was terrible .... innocent people die at the hands of mentally deranged people and that spares no ethnicity.
Unfortunately, for the black communities in Chicago, we are reading that 78% of the crimes there are committed by young black males. You can't blame this on white people. You can't blame it on the Asian communities. You can't blame it on the Hispanic communities or Fox News. These are the hard facts.
We cannot, intellectually, blame the white communities for choices the black community makes on a daily basis. Many have no role models are home. This community of Americans have suffered fro decades because there's no marriage between the mother and the father. You can't blame me for stating that anymore than you can blame anyone else who makes that observation as the cause of the break down in the African community. It appears that the larger inner cities are the pulse of these murders where young black males chose not to go the path for successful lives. They have to take ownership for this. No one made this choice for them but I believe if they had good role models their lives could've been different. Again, it's a culture. Until they can turn that type of culture around we'll continue to read the stories and nothing will change.
Sunday July 21, 2013, 6:50 am
typo: "many do not have role models at home..."
I have a question to ask. Barack Obama aka Barry Soretoro has admitted to being a cocaine user and smoking pot. He was brought to his grandparents by his mother who then went back to Indonesia so that he could go to high school in Hawaii. Had to be tough on him emotionally. Yes, I am speculating but my point is that Obama had to make some choices at a young age....go to college or languish in Hawaii continuing to smoke pot and use cocaine. He had role models in his life who taught him that higher education was where he needed to be. Today he is the President of the United States. There are many success stories. It's called personal responsibility for the life path one choses.
Somewhere in Chicago was a young woman named Michelle who decided at a young age that she was going to law school. She charted her path, didn't drop out of school, didn't join a gang and today she is the First Lady of our country. Now, all of you know that I believe Obama has not been a good president for many reasons because I never bought into the way he has conducted himself and I have disagreed on nearly every policy he felt was right for the country. I'm not alone in this. Obama didn't win either election by a landslide far from it, in fact. There are many Americans who do not agree with Obama's decisions and the direction he feels he should be taking our country.
Sunday July 21, 2013, 7:41 am
Oh my God Diane, We ALL know how you feel about President Obama. You repeat it ad nauseam. He won, 2 times in fact, he didn't have to steal the election, he didn't have to have SCOTUS hand it to him. Get over it will you? Does not matter that he didn't win by a landslide, he still won and the clown your dear party put up is, thankfully, not in the Oval Office.
Racism is alive and well and apparent on Tom's page. Some blacks do get ahead, do go to college, do become professors, doctors and the like. But, not all blacks have this opportunity. They languish in poorly run schools without computers, up to date books and parents who cannot afford to buy those things. I would like to see you Diane walk in those shoes, even for a minute and see how easy it would be to step up and out. You, nor I, don't really understand what it must be like to be afraid as a young black man walking alone on a street at night and be thought of as a possible thug because of his color. Things need to change and we all need to step up and stop the kind of thing that happened between Trayvon Martin and Geo Zimmerman. Your attitude, in my opinion, is part of the problem.
Sunday July 21, 2013, 7:44 am
"Many black males aren't the head of households but have fathered many children by different women. They are their own worst enemy. They can't blame white people for that."
Sorry, Diane, but you have to go back further than this spring to look at this issue. For the record, I didn't watch the President's remarks, I read them in my local paper. This statement above is at the heart of the matter. LBJ's Great Society, which came into being after the Civil Rights movement of the 60's and Dr. King's death, was a great idea with a very flawed premise. You could use that program for support to go as far as a BA degree and many single women did. The fatal flaw in it, from which the black community has never recovered, which essentially blew apart the African-American nuclear family, was that to be eligible you cold have only ONE adult in the household. This forced black males to leave or their so's to become liars. And there WERE welfare investigator's who DID go out to homes looking for signs of male occupancy, like shoes under the bed, men's cloths in the wash.
Every immigrant that has ever come to our shores has followed the same path. First generation, the home language is used in the household, the bread winner, if not a farmer, will learn some English, second generation is the first to begin school here and learn the language even though in their homes the home language is used, if laborers or farmers this generation often didn't complete school (I'm second generation Swedish on one side, my dad's he got as far as 6th grade before his father's illness forced him to take over the farm, he was the oldest son of 12 children, my grandmother was pregnant with him on the way over here in 1922 - the same pretty much happened in my mothers family where I am 4th generation), the third generation is usually the first to complete high school and become fully assimilated, this generation often does not retain the ancestral language. The 4th generation is often the first to graduate college - I am the first on either side, the eldest grandchild, to go to college.
All immigrant populations have followed this same path, Swedish, Irish, German, Norwegian, Polish, etc.. later the Vietnamese, the Hmong and the Laotians. We now have a group of conservatives who expect immigrants to arrive with the language and already fully assimilated. The only group to whom this pattern does not apply is African-American (though recent immigrants DO), because they didn't immigrate, they were brought here enslaved. That enslavement continued through the Jim Crow laws until the 1960's, and institutional racism is still very much present in this country. No other population has experienced what African-Americans have. They shouldn't be using that as an excuse now? Well, the attitude toward them has NOT changed in many parts of the country, they are still actively discriminated against even with affirmative action.
That welfare program, AFDC, came on the heels of other programs that fostered dependence, not independence, there were still many occupations barred to African-Americans, covertly, not overtly. But AFDC came and destroyed the nuclear black family driving males out of the home. They have not yet recovered from that well-intentioned but fatally flawed program. They were already multi-generational welfare recipients because so many jobs were out of reach to them. In the late 70's I saw a local television special that followed four young black women around an inner city high school. They had plans to become independent. They were going to get pregnant, get an AFDC grant, food stamps, medical care and section 8 housing. That was what their past looked like and their future. They had no hope of anything more. Generations of racism and poverty do that to a people, beats hope right out of them. And when you have no hope, you have no aspirations, you don't believe things can change or will because they never have. You don't expect to get a good paying job because no one of your race you know ever has. That is how beaten down they were, and in many cases still are.
Young black males grew up with no male influence in their lives and found it on the streets, since they couldn't get jobs they turned to each other, children raising children, and crime, often violent crime. This is still happening in the African American community but also in the communities of more recent, non white, immigrants. The more recent arrivals are going to college and starting businesses and working very hard, most of them. The black community still has no hope, nothing has changed for them. As the president pointed out, men of his race are still more likely to be feared than hired. Women cross the street to avoid them, they are followed around in stores, they are subjected to stop and frisk policies and, yes, they have mostly had a conversation, even those who have successfully made it out of the ghetto, about how to act when they are pulled over because they certainly will be. I have NEVER been, not once but driving, or walking, while black is still a reason to be pulled over even here in the "liberal" north.
We don't understand their perspective, we don't understand how they feel, and we don't understand what lack of hope for a better future does to the soul of a people. I hope we learn. Because this group deserves to be a part of America and to share in the American dream even though their ancestors were not immigrants. We could make that happen. But not while the country at large is still as racist as it is, overtly and covertly. I've heard more than one African-American acquaintance say they prefer the overt racism of the south because they at least know what they are dealing with to the covert racism of the north where people smile but don't associate with or hire you. We are starting to see some change in the media. Commercials now show black families doing normal family things - that is still a pretty recent development as for most of my life I never saw a black family in a commercial. A few sitcoms yes, but nowhere else. This doesn't change overnight and the president didn't create it. He simply described HIS experience and his feelings. He is as entitled to that as any person in the country. To be vilified for speaking his truth is only proof that racism is still alive and well in the land of the mostly free. Tammy Bruce is an outright liar. No one was sucker punched nor had their had bashed in during Zimmerman's attack. Quite the opposite, had his head been bashed in, a 17 year old black child would be on death row in Florida now, instead of dead already.
Sunday July 21, 2013, 9:00 am
Some race-baiter .....that's what OBAMA wanted to create more hate for himself and black people. OH gosh I'm laughing at Diane and it isn't nice to laugh at -------people. Oh that FOX TV owned by an arab royalty is really giving the republicans a lot of garbage they eat like it's candy.
Sunday July 21, 2013, 9:07 am
Maybe just maybe....this was the "straw that broke the camels back". having a 29 yr old suburban cowboy shoot a 16 yrs old teenager who was minding his own business and found INNOCENT. Good GAWD !!! .
Society has to take some responsibility for what it has created and that happens to be more crime. And crime is increasing in the white and female population as well as the black population..cause the kind of need and jobless poverty will have an impact.
We know what happened in Mexico----the young have little to no opportunities unless they join the Cartels.
This is the kind of country Elitest (and folks like Diane ) support and they may yet regret it......Sure there is plentiful cheap labor.....but at what price they'll pay for eventually being afraid to leave their house or stay in it.
Sunday July 21, 2013, 9:22 am
Some of the ''blackest'' people I've ever seen were in India. Calling everyone with dark skin "African American" is just wrong.
Nevertheless, we have those like Diane who, as an Episcopalian claiming to see good in everyone, seems to have myopia where dark skins are concerned. BLAME THE VICTIM! SET A GREAT EXAMPLE FOR JESUS! Um, hmmmm....
I loved what the President said...he let us see some of the pain he's suffered over his life, simply because of his skin color. He represented millions of people who have felt the kind of hatred Diane exemplifies so well.
Sunday July 21, 2013, 9:34 am
I see Diane O is back with her usual long-winded, laughable, "uppity" crap!
Bottom line: Zimmerman profiled, followed then ultimately killed an innocent boy who was out for a pkg of Skittles and an iced tea. Zimmerman IS guilty and it's not over for him. He'll pay the price in many ways over his whole lifetime.
Sunday July 21, 2013, 10:14 am
Nothing "uppity" about me. I'm a southern lady who speaks her mind....much the same way you folks did when George W. Bush and Dick Cheney were in office? Remember those days? You were then where I sit today.
Pam, I agree with you about calling black people in our country African Americans but this is what they want to be called. About every 20 or 30 years they change what they want to be called and if we are going to be politically correct we will call them what they want to be called. Personally, I believe the African part should be dropped but it's not up to me. It's up to them what they want to be called. So, today it is either black or African American.
To be politically correct we refer to the Indians as Native Americans.
Sunday July 21, 2013, 10:30 am
Gene, I do agree with your well written comments (as usual) regarding there being "no hope" for those being raised in their culture that exists today. We have three and four generations of Americans on welfare...born into it and it has become a way of life for them. The absence of a father in the home has been discussed many times and how that directly impacts the path the children will follow when there's not a role model. Some mothers have done quite well pushing their children to higher education and we read about those success stories every day. My point is that we cannot change that culture for them. It's a mindset. These women have to get a clue that bringing a new child into the world every year by different fathers teaches them the wrong values IMO. We all know that there's a white culture stuck in the same rut. The taxpayers step in and bail them out generation after generation and it becomes a way of life living on the system.
When the Cubans started entering our country illegally they were fleeing a dictatorship, no jobs, and had to live on the food provisions given to them by a dictator. Meanwhile his living quarters and food were quite elegant. The Cubans understood that in order for them to bring a better life for their children they had to leave. Once in America, many worked hard at two and three jobs (jobs they would not have had in Cuba or they had a job it paid pennies, and stayed focused on educating their children. Marco Rubio comes to mind at the moment. Success stories. Changing a culture. This makes me wonder why some are able to break a cycle and come are not. To me, and it will always come down to this, personal responsibility and a determination to succeed plays a huge role in the outcome.
Sunday July 21, 2013, 10:40 am
David, you can call me the voice of the right way but you would be wrong. I am a person who believes in looking at the facts and having an informed opinion. I don't agree with the far right wing. I am a moderate American who believes that anyone in our country who wants to become self supporting can do so. Our tax dollars pay for many educational tools to get young people up and on their feet.
Affirmative Action played a role in Obama and Michelle's success as it did with Colin Powell in the military. There are many others back in the 60's and 70's who were put on a fast track to success. This wasn't true for their white school mates who didn't fall under this category. However, some white women and other minorities did benefit from affirmative action...which leads me to this link I am going to post:
This article is an updated version of an essay first published in the Journal of Social Issues (volume 52, pages 25-31) and later revised in Plous, S. (Ed.). (2003). Understanding Prejudice and Discrimination (pp. 206-212). New York: McGraw-Hill.
In recentyears, affirmative action has been debated more intensely than at any other time in its 50-year history. Many supporters view affirmative action as a milestone, many opponents see it as a millstone, and many others regard it as both or neither -- as a necessary, but imperfect, remedy for an intractable social disease. My own view is that the case against affirmative action is weak, resting, as it does so heavily, on myth and misunderstanding. Here are some of the most popular myths about affirmative action, along with a brief commentary on each one.
Myth 1: The only way to create a color-blind society is to adopt color-blind policies.
Although this statement sounds intuitively plausible, the reality is that color-blind policies often put racial minorities at a disadvantage. For instance, all else being equal, color-blind seniority systems tend to protect White workers against job layoffs, because senior employees are usually White (Ezorsky, 1991). Likewise, color-blind college admissions favor White students because of their earlier educational advantages. Unless preexisting inequities are corrected or otherwise taken into account, color-blind policies do not correct racial injustice -- they reinforce it.
Myth 2: Affirmative action has not succeeded in increasing female and minority representation.
Several studies have documented important gains in racial and gender equality as a direct result of affirmative action (Bowen & Bok, 1998; Murrell & Jones, 1996). For example, according to a report from the U.S. Labor Department, affirmative action has helped 5 million minority members and 6 million White and minority women move up in the workforce ("Reverse Discrimination," 1995). Likewise, a study sponsored by the Office of Federal Contract Compliance Programs showed that between 1974 and 1980 federal contractors (who were required to adopt affirmative action goals) added Black and female officials and managers at twice the rate of noncontractors (Citizens' Commission, 1984). There have also been a number of well-publicized cases in which large companies (e.g., AT&T, IBM, Sears Roebuck) increased minority employment as a result of adopting affirmative action policies.
Myth 3: Affirmative action may have been necessary 30 years ago, but the playing field is fairly level today.
Despite the progress that has been made, the playing field is far from level. Women continue to earn 77 cents for every male dollar (U.S. Bureau of the Census, 2010). Black people continue to have twice the unemployment rate of White people, twice the rate of infant mortality, and just over half the proportion of people who attend four years or more of college (see Figure 1). In fact, without affirmative action the percentage of Black students at many selective schools would drop to only 2% of the student body (Bowen & Bok, 1998). This would effectively choke off Black access to top universities and severely restrict progress toward racial equality.
Common Standard of Living Indices Graph
Myth 4: The public doesn't support affirmative action anymore.
Public opinion polls suggest that most Americans support affirmative action, especially when the polls avoid an all-or-none choice between affirmative action as it currently exists and no affirmative action whatsoever (see Table 1). For example, according to the Pew Research Center (2007, p. 40), 70% of Americans are in favor of "affirmative action programs to help blacks, women and other minorities get better jobs and education." What the public opposes are quotas, set-asides, and "reverse discrimination." For instance, when a poll asked people whether they favored programs "requiring businesses to hire a specific number or quota of minorities and women," 63% opposed such a plan (Roper Center for Public Opinion, 1995a). As these results indicate, most members of the public oppose racial preferences that violate notions of procedural justice -- they do not oppose affirmative action.
Survey Results Suggesting Majority Support for Affirmative Action
Item Sourcea Responses in %
Do you favor or oppose affirmative action programs for minorities and women for job hiring in the workplace? Gallupb
Don't know/Refused: 5
Do you favor or oppose affirmative action programs for minorities and women for admission to colleges and universities? Gallup.
Don't know/Refused: 6
In general, do you think we need to increase, keep the same, or decrease affirmative action programs in this country? Gallup.
Keep the same: 37
Don't know/Refused: 10
Do you generally favor or oppose affirmative action programs for women and minorities? CNN/USA Today
Not sure: 9
What's the best thing to do with affirmative action programs giving preference to some minorities -- leave the programs as they are, change the programs, or do away with the programs entirely? CBS/NY Times
Leave as are: 24
Keep but change: 43
Do away with: 25
Not sure: 8
What about affirmative action programs that set quotas ... Do you favor affirmative action programs with quotas, or do you favor affirmative action programs only without quotas, or do you oppose all affirmative action programs? Associated Press.
Favor with quotas: 16
Favor without quotas: 47
Oppose all: 28
Don't know: 9
aAll polls are from the Roper Center for Public Opinion [RCPO] or Gallup. bRCPO (2001a). cRCPO (2001b). dLudwig (2003). eRCPO (2000). fRCPO (1997). gRCPO (1995b).
Myth 5: A large percentage of White workers will lose out if affirmative action is continued.
Government statistics do not support this myth. According to the U.S. Commerce Department, there are 2.6 million unemployed Black civilians and 114 million employed White civilians (U.S. Bureau of the Census, 2011). Thus, even if every unemployed Black worker in the United States were to displace a White worker, only 2% of Whites would be affected. Furthermore, affirmative action pertains only to job-qualified applicants, so the actual percentage of affected Whites would be even smaller. The main sources of job loss among White workers have to do with factory relocations and labor contracting outside the United States, computerization and automation, and corporate downsizing (Ivins, 1995).
Myth 6: If Jewish people and Asian Americans can rapidly advance economically, African Americans should be able to do the same.
This comparison ignores the unique history of discrimination against Black people in America. Over the past four centuries, Black history has included nearly 250 years of slavery, 100 years of legalized discrimination, and only 50 years of anything else. Jews and Asians, on the other hand, are populations that immigrated to North America and included doctors, lawyers, professors, and entrepreneurs among their ranks. Moreover, European Jews are able to function as part of the White majority. To expect Blacks to show the same upward mobility as Jews and Asians is to deny the historical and social reality that Black people face.
Myth 7: You can't cure discrimination with discrimination.
The problem with this myth is that it uses the same word -- discrimination -- to describe two very different things. Job discrimination is grounded in prejudice and exclusion, whereas affirmative action is an effort to overcome prejudicial treatment through inclusion. The most effective way to cure society of exclusionary practices is to make special efforts at inclusion, which is exactly what affirmative action does. The logic of affirmative action is no different than the logic of treating a nutritional deficiency with vitamin supplements. For a healthy person, high doses of vitamin supplements may be unnecessary or even harmful, but for a person whose system is out of balance, supplements are an efficient way to restore the body's balance.
Myth 8: Affirmative action tends to undermine the self-esteem of women and racial minorities.
Although affirmative action may have this effect in some cases (Heilman, Simon, & Repper, 1987; Steele, 1990), interview studies and public opinion surveys suggest that such reactions are rare (Taylor, 1994). For instance, a 1995 Gallup poll asked employed Blacks and employed White women whether they had ever felt others questioned their abilities because of affirmative action (Roper Center for Public Opinion, 1995c). Nearly 90% of respondents said no (which is understandable -- after all, White men, who have traditionally benefited from preferential hiring, do not feel hampered by self-doubt or a loss in self-esteem). Indeed, in many cases affirmative action may actually raise the self-esteem of women and minorities by providing them with employment and opportunities for advancement. There is also evidence that affirmative action policies increase job satisfaction and organizational commitment among beneficiaries (Graves & Powell, 1994).
Myth 9: Affirmative action is nothing more than an attempt at social engineering by liberal Democrats.
In truth, affirmative action programs have spanned a dozen different presidential administrations -- seven Republican and five Democratic. Although the originating document of affirmative action was President Lyndon Johnson's Executive Order 11246, the policy was significantly expanded in 1969 by President Richard Nixon and then Secretary of Labor George Schultz. President George Bush also enthusiastically signed the Civil Rights Act of 1991, which formally endorsed the principle of affirmative action. Thus, affirmative action has traditionally enjoyed the support of Republicans as well as Democrats.
Myth 10: Support for affirmative action means support for preferential selection procedures that favor unqualified candidates over qualified candidates.
Actually, most supporters of affirmative action oppose this type of preferential selection. Preferential selection procedures can be ordered along the following continuum:
1.Selection among equally qualified candidates. The mildest form of affirmative action selection occurs when a female or minority candidate is chosen from a pool of equally qualified applicants (e.g., students with identical college entrance scores). Survey research suggests that three-quarters of the public does not see this type of affirmative action as discriminatory (Roper Center for Public Opinion, 1995d).
2.Selection among comparable candidates. A somewhat stronger form occurs when female or minority candidates are roughly comparable to other candidates (e.g., their college entrance scores are lower, but not by a significant amount). The logic here is similar to the logic of selecting among equally qualified candidates; all that is needed is an understanding that, for example, predictions based on an SAT score of 620 are virtually indistinguishable from predictions based on an SAT score of 630.
3.Selection among unequal candidates. A still stronger form of affirmative action occurs when qualified female or minority candidates are chosen over candidates whose records are better by a substantial amount.
4.Selection among qualified and unqualified candidates. The strongest form of preferential selection occurs when unqualified female or minority members are chosen over other candidates who are qualified. Although affirmative action is sometimes mistakenly equated with this form of preferential treatment, federal regulations explicitly prohibit affirmative action programs in which unqualified or unneeded employees are hired (Electronic Code of Federal Regulations, 2011).
there's more here: http://www.understandingprejudice.org/readroom/articles/affirm.htm
Going to the link will be easier to read as this study has graphs to follow the research.
Sunday July 21, 2013, 1:12 pm
His speech hurt my heart. I had never looked at the issue that way before. And Gene's comment was spot on. I am so glad to be a member of a community of so many people who can show compassion. Thanks TC
Sunday July 21, 2013, 2:38 pm
Diane O, I can't decide if you are just a Care2 shill that wants to stir up the sensibilities of the good people on Care2, or you actually believe the tripe you spew. Either way, you obviously have more time on your hands than gray matter between your ears.
Sunday July 21, 2013, 3:16 pm
That would be your personal opinion. I'm not here to stir up anything. I'm here to get the truth before those who do no research at all. Americans need to know what is happening to their country. So, suffice it to say, MjM, I'm a very concerned American and I want my grandchildren to KNOW the great country I grew up in.
It is my opinion that Obama never wanted to be POTUS. I believe he was groomed for this position as early as 2002 by the progressives. Unfortunately, Barack and Michelle bought into it and unfortunately I believe Obama will be remembered as the most disrespected president in the history of our country. He admits he is lazy. An open mic recently revealed how he feels about having to be at every function...in this case it was the Fourth of July. Of course, the liberals will never admit that they, too, are very disappointed in him.
Sunday July 21, 2013, 5:04 pm
Diane O wrote on her latest dribble, President Obama supposedly " admits he is lazy." Yes, of course, he must be lazy, why with trying to save the economy, multiple wars, healthcare reform, killing Bin Laden, immigration reform, etc., etc......need I go on?
People, Diane O is the perfect example of a myopic bigot, who's facts or truths are colored with bigotry, and tend to be as clear as mud. No, Diane you're not a "moderate" American. Trust me. You're an extreme right winger who will only see and hear what she wants to see or hear. Truth is relative to you, and it's all based on the alternative universe that only resides in the darkness of your mind. Sigh....the problem with people like you is, well, there's no changing your crazed thinking! No amount of good will, no amount of facts will ever, ever make you a humane, clear thinking, empathetic human being. You're a lost soul who will always be that part of society who will resist change, or progressive attitudes. It's your ilk that usually holds back the needed change to make this a better society, a better world. It's sad, but true.
Sunday July 21, 2013, 6:54 pm
I listened to the 17 minute speech and I found nothing offensive in it. Mr Obama spoke of his experience as a black youth and young adult. He certainly did not talk as a racist, but tried to outline where some of the "anger" might come from for young black men.
“[i]f Trayvon Martin was of age and armed, could he have stood his ground on that sidewalk?” And noted that if they are uncomfortable with a world where Martin “would have been justified in shooting Mr. Zimmerman who had followed him in a car” because Martin felt threatened,” then perhaps it would make sense to rethink Stand Your Ground Laws.
Critical thought articulated here, one that no one should be afraid of asking, but many on the right would not ask because it would show up their bigotry.
So, how would the situation be different if it had been an armed Trayvon Martin, feeling threatened by a George Zimmerman following him, killed Zimmerman? Would Martin have been arrested right away after the murder? Would he have been acquitted under stand your ground laws?
Personally, the stand your ground laws should be over turned, repealed . . . whatever you want to call it. They lead to unwarranted assumptions, vigilantism, and death.
Sunday July 21, 2013, 6:55 pm
"Hispanics who are a threat to law abiding people because of their chosen activities" - Diane O.
What an insult! A racist insult!
Don't we have an Hispanic Supreme Court Judge? Quite a law-breaker, eh?
Sonia Sotomayor "was born in The Bronx, New York City and is of Puerto Rican descent. Her father died when she was nine, and she was subsequently raised by her mother. Sotomayor graduated summa cum laude from Princeton University in 1976 and received her J.D. from Yale Law School in 1979, where she was an editor at the Yale Law Journal. She was an advocate for the hiring of Latino faculty at both schools. .../..." (Wikipedia)
Hiring Latino faculty at Yale & Princeton? That must mean she actually FOUND other Hispanic people who 'chose' to obtain qualifications, degrees & skills. Think about it, Diane O.
Another example - A Neurosurgeon's Amazing Path From Migrant Fields To Operating Room - At the Johns Hopkins School of Medicine, Alfredo Quiñones-Hinojosa has four positions. He is a neurosurgeon who teaches oncology and neurosurgery, directs a neurosurgery clinic and heads a laboratory studying brain tumors. He also performs nearly 250 brain operations a year. Twenty years ago, Dr. Quiñones-Hinojosa, now 40, was an illegal immigrant working in the vegetable fields of the Central Valley in California. He became a citizen in 1997 while at Harvard.
Excerpt from interview with Dr Quiñones-Hinojosa:
" I was sitting at a lunch table with colleagues at Harvard Medical School. Someone asked how I’d come to Harvard. “I hopped the fence,” I said. Everyone laughed. They thought I was joking. "
Sunday July 21, 2013, 7:43 pm
I see D.O., the clueless one is back. I won't even bother to read and argue or discuss her comments, I skipped over most of them. Pure white southern horseshit. Bless her heart.
Sunday July 21, 2013, 8:22 pm
Pertinent to Trayvon Martin's murder, the Zimmerman acquittal & President Obama's remarks, particularly those about the historical context & past experiences which shape the way African-Americans react to events like the murder of Trayvon & the acquittal of Zimmerman:
JULY 12, 2013: "Fruitvale Station" opens in theaters nationwide this week - "Fruitvale Station" portrays the last day of Oscar Grant’s life, before the 22-year-old African American was shot to death by a Bay Area Rapid Transit police officer on New Year’s Day in Oakland, California. It is the debut effort by 26-year-old filmmaker Ryan Coogler, who works as a social worker at a juvenile detention center in San Francisco.
Watch the DN! interview with the director of the feature film, "Fruitvale Station," Ryan Coogler, which includes clips from the film:
DN! January 25, 2013 - Fruitvale: Ryan Coogler’s Debut Film on Bay Area Police Slaying of Oscar Grant the Buzz of Sundance: "The new film here at Sundance that begins with real cellphone footage (the same eyewitness cellphone video footage of the Oscar Grant shooting that was uploaded to YouTube & went viral) and then dramatically rewinds to earlier in the day is called Fruitvale, named after the train stop where Oscar Grant died. Oscar Grant was the 22-year-old Bay Area resident who was shot to death on BART, the Bay Area Rapid Transit, a police officer—by a police officer on New Year’s Day in 2009. It was the night of 2008 into the morning of 2009. The incident prompted widespread outrage in Oakland after cellphone video footage of the shooting was uploaded to YouTube. One video was downloaded half-a-million times in four days after Oscar was killed. The footage shows Oscar Grant and several other young African-American men being subdued by the BART officers at an Oakland-area train stop. Grant does not appear to be resisting arrest when he’s shot in the back while being handcuffed."
BART police officer Johannes Mehserle was tried, & convicted of 'involuntary manslaughter,' but not guilty of second-degree murder and voluntary manslaughter; On November 5, 2010, Mehserle was sentenced to two years, minus time served. He served his time in the Los Angeles County Jail, occupying a private cell away from other prisoners. He was released on June 13, 2011 and is now on parole. (Wikipedia)
Care2NN Post (not mine) - July 16, 2013: Bay Area Blues Musician Attacked After Dedicating Song to Trayvon Martin: Blues Musician Lester Chambers 73, Attacked, Knocked Down on Stage Performing Song Just Dedicated to Trayvon:
There are 2 videos embedded on the posted page - one of the attack by this hate-crazed woman; the other of Lester Chambers, formerly of the Chambers Brothers, speaking on the attack, while still recovering a few days later. This man has a golden heart & soul; refuses to press charges, but recommends that such angry people seek & find love & God.
'Stand Your Ground' à la Carte : In the aftermath of Zimmerman's acquittal, different news sources on the Net are looking back at a 2012 trial, where 'Stand Your Ground' was not accepted as a defence:
The jury in this case decided she hadn't shot in self-defence, despite the ex-mate's history of domestic abuse & Melissa Alexander's having had to go to hospital numerous times because of his abuse.
Need I mention that Marissa, who has a Masters degree, is an African American?
"Her sentencing fell under the guidelines of what’s known in Florida as the “10-20-Life” law, which set certain mandatory minimum sentences for crimes committed with a firearm. The law enacted in 1999 requires that any crime committed with a gun earns the perpetrator a minimum ten year sentence, as the Florida Department of Corrections explains. If the firearm is discharged, the convicted will receive a 20-year minimum sentence, and if shots fired from the gun injure or kill anyone, the minimum sentence is 25-years to life.
Angela Corey, who oversaw the prosecution of Zimmerman, also tried the case against Alexander, and defended the sentencing at the time. .../..."
Sunday July 21, 2013, 8:47 pm
omg- the care2 septic tank must have overflowed and ms.runmy mouth seeped into this thread.
Who in the hell continuously feels the need to crash a party where she was not invited or wanted?!
She seems so lost w/pink mindy and her wonderful jeffrey gone....
Wish she'd take the hint, but she's to busy reveling in the sound of her own ignorance...*sigh
Sunday July 21, 2013, 11:31 pm
Anyone like to bet that Diane goes to Church on Sundays, where she ask God to forgive her sins, has tea with her white friends and talks about the good old days when Bush 1 and 2 was in the White House.
Diane I wish that you would put you mind (and yes I think that you have a great mind) to doing good, so take some time out, and started thinking about what you are saying on here, ask is what I am saying helping my party, does help the people around me.
Monday July 22, 2013, 12:19 am
This is just some retarded blog that really gives no information whatsoever. There is no evidence given of racism on anyone's part, Republican or Obama. Don't know why this case is considered important enough for the President to stick his nose into the matter anyway.
Monday July 22, 2013, 7:24 am
Excellent. I don't understand the GOP or the TPs; there seem to be no answers when I ask questions. I think Obama is an admirable man, even when I don't agree with all of his policies. He has the willingness to address issues that other 'presidents' have skirted--out of fear? Who cares? I'm appalled by the jury's decision; more, I'm appalled by the covert racism that lingers in this country, or any country, for that matter. We are people. That's all. PEOPLE.
Monday July 22, 2013, 8:26 am
Racists don't seem to understand that they are racist. Anyone who automatically assumes that all blacks are lazy, unwilling to help themselves, are all on welfare, are on drugs and in gangs, are thugs and criminals, mentally inferior, etc. and so on, ARE racists. We seem to have a few racists posting comments here, and apparently they believe they are psychic, knowing what's on everyone's mind and how they all act and do things.
It's hard to believe that in the 21st century people don't yet understand that you can't bunch an entire race or religion or anything else together and say that "those people" are all this way or that. Everyone is an individual, with their own experiences. None of us have the exact same story in life, and we need to walk in another person's shoes before making blanket statements about them.
A friend of mine mentioned that Diane was again posting her vile racist comments. In jest I wrote back the litany that I knew would be here. The woman's comment back to me was, "oh you have already seen her comments?' I don't have to read them to know exactly what they will say, the tone and attitude taken. I didn't turn on the computer all weekend but I knew exactly what Diane would have to say.
Diane says she must get the truth out there because others will not do their research. Yes, Diane they do their research, it's just factual and not racist. Racist rarely admit what they are, but they sure are clear in their speech.
The country Diane grew up in just didn't exist. Some of us grew up with a certain amount of privilege
others did not, for them life was hell in those years. We can only move forward, there is no human ability to erase the truth and live in some idealized non-existent world. Today, here and now is the one and only reality we have.
Monday July 22, 2013, 10:11 am
David C. I disagree with your statement Diane O has a great mind. There is nothing great about the mind of a narrow minded bigot. She has been spouting this trash for years and listens to no one but herself or those with the same narrow mind that she has!
Monday July 22, 2013, 2:31 pm
Diane, I could not believe my eyes when I read you first comment! You are repeating all the crappy rationalizations of bigotry, of decades gone by. You are blaming the victims who have been told, and SHOWN that they are seen as virtually valueless to the larger society, as a whole.
Fredrick Douglass learned to read in spite of the larger society, baseball only became integrated fairly recently, and not without conflict!
There is an entire history of people of color being culturally battered, in the USA, that does not get wiped away by a few successes. And that history continues to have impact, even on little children, RESEARCH has shown.
Tuesday July 23, 2013, 3:19 am
As much as I hate to do it, I'm actually going to defend Diane. I just ignore her, because she has said nothing worthwhile to date. However personal insults, like about her weight io appearance, have nothing to do with what she says, and should be avoided. That is how Republicans behave, and if we act like they do, how can people tell the difference?
Like you, I don't care about her appearance... on the outside. But she apparently care about nothing else.
Diane, imagine this scenario. Your daughter is walking along in a light drizzle, in the dark; she is followed by a man in car, then chased on foot when she tries to flee. But knowing that she couldn't outrun the stranger, she stopped, drew the firearm her mother-- you-- had bought her for personal defense. A confrontation ensued, and a shot is fired. Did she have the right to stand her ground and kill the mysterious stranger?
If Trayvon had overpowered Zimmerman, and accidentally killed Georgie, would HE have been charged with murder? You damned well know that he would have, and he would have been convicted. That, Diane, is racism in action.
Tuesday July 23, 2013, 6:39 pm
Personal attacks are never a good thing to do on Care 2. Trust me.
I have a very different thought process from the enablers, the Liberals, in our country. I believed that our country should've put policies in place for the minorities in our country including women. Once those educational tools were put in place then it became a ladder for those who felt like they could not get ahead in life financially. Many climbed that ladder but some did not. The question is why did some take advantage of the ladder before them?
I believe in personal responsibility Americans. Barack Hussein Obama is a personal responsibility American and so is Michelle. They set their sights on a higher ground even higher than the even playing field. And they weren't alone. We have millions of accomplished African Americans in our country who far surpass many Americans who simply didn't want to do the work and make the necessary choices to make them self supporting, taxpaying Americans. This isn't exclusively African American in our country as many Americans today not African American have opted out of charting the right path for themselves and their families.
The statistics are available to anyone who wants to read them. If you don't want to read them well I wouldn't be surprised. Because to read them and fully understand them would make you a realist. And that is who I am.
What the liberals have done to our country is create a nanny state. They've made one hundred excuses why people are poor. And then they compound that with keeping them on welfare for three and four generations.
Here's an example for you. Many of you here on Care 2, as liberals, have degrees. Some of you have multiple degrees. Why do you have them? Why did you decide at a young age in your life that you wanted to go to college, go to nursing school, etc? Why did you want this for yourselves? Ask yourselves those hard questions and if you are truthful you will come up with the right answer. The right answer is that you wanted to enter a career where you could grow as a person, as an employee, grow your minds AND you wanted to be able to support yourselves so you would not be a burden on society while supporting the children you brought into this world.
When immigrants started to enter our country in 1892 until 1924 Ellis Island was the most active integration point in America. They came to America for opportunity because they didn't have that in their homeland. To that end, few went to college because they didn't have the resources or that level of time to not be earning an income for their families.
Now, let us talk about personal responsibility Americans and what these immigrants brought to New York. They worked in factories and did whatever they could to be self supporting and before they could enter New York they had to prove they had a job waiting for them so that they would NOT be taking jobs away from Americans. Think about that. Think about that level of commitment....something unheard of today. Illegals pour over our borders every single hour of every single day looking for "benefits" and now we need to go back and research when these benefits started because when the immigrants started entering Ellis Island they had to have a job "waiting" for them and they succeeded doing this on their OWN. Immigrants not only do not have a job waiting for them they aren't even willing to do the paperwork to become legal. Legal immigrants today have to be sponsored by family members but if they cannot find employment then this is where the taxpayers come in. The taxpayers now are the enablers.
This has been a long and arduous path for immigrants into the United States. What the history books will tell us is that New York City because immigrants landed there and took up homestead there and charted their paths to Mom and Pop busineses which we call "small businesses" today. Today 53% of all jobs are provided to Americans as small businesses. These are NOT union jobs.
So, for many of you to take the position of calling me a racist because I believe in the reality and the history of personal responsibility Americans have literally built our country tells me that you are short sighted in knowing how the immigrants built our country with determination and personal responsibility.
I believe that every child born into this world in America has opportunities today that the immigrants did not have and yet they forged a path to being self sufficient because America gave them a "dream" and they acted on that dream by leaving their countries behind them. How many of us today would make that same choice? It was brave.
In our country today, we have become enablers to those who simply do not value the "American dream" and they don't embrace it. We have morphed into a country that would allow the Boston Marathon bomber's family to enter our country and live on the welfare system, or assistance, INCLUDING THEIR EDUCATION and, well, you know the rest. We, as taxpayers, funded that bombing and how wrong that was.
This is why I take a firm position on all ethnicities in our country when receiving tax payer funding to supposedly give a family a better life free of oppression to excel and become self supporting and then don't exercise those opportunities to do the work necessary to become self supporting then that tells me that our country is not in control today. We, as a country, have lost sight of who we are. However, the liberals want to zero in on me and call me a racist when, in fact, I am a pure realist. I don't see the color of one's skin. What I see are "Americans" who aren't willing to be Americans but have learned that relaxing on the taxpayer's dime is far easier and oh by the way we don't have to learn a trade or go to school because this country owes us because of slavery that happened when Africa sold their own people to the Arabs who sold them to the US - that ended in 1865....and the 13th Amendment ended it but today we are still fighting it and addressing it. The first slaves arrived in Jamestown (19 or so blacks) in 1619 brought by Dutch traders. The Dutch seized them from a captured Spanish slave ship. Arabs were selling slaves everywhere. They were treated horribly and that has nothing to do with the United States.
Slavery was abolished in our country in 1865. Civil Rights of 1964 outlawed major forms of discrimination against rational ethnic national minorities of national and religious minorities and women. The US elected the first president of African black ethnicity in 2008. Between 1865 and 2008 whites and blacks worked for racial equality in this country and the US is arguably the most ethnically diverse tolerant nation on earth.
The Trayvon Martin case is neither proof nor disproof of the US progress in racial relations rather it is an excuse for race mongers to earn their living as tax exempt "civil rights" leaders. The vast majority of perceived racial discrimination in this country is actually disapproval of popular cultural trends. Trends. Think about that cultural. Disintegration of the family unit. Illegitimate children.....
Our federal government has enabled the entitlement in the welfare state driven by considering ethnic minorities as perpetual victims which is a politically created myth in current times.
So, if you want to call me a racist then do so but when you do you are ignoring history and you are discounting personal responsibility immigrants who came into our country, as minorities, and soared setting their sights on the "American Dream" to start your own business and own your own home and educate your children so that they would have a better opportunity in America.
I do want to state here that I am never surprised when the Care 2 liberals call me a racist. In fact, I expect that from the liberals. When a group of people are short sighted in what they know they will absolutely chastise a taxpaying American who knows the history and understands that the direction our country is in today simply placates and makes excuses for those who just don't want to do the work that many before them have done in order to call themselves Americans.
So, call me what you want. But know this.....I am a realist, not a racist and if any of you would revisit history I believe you would position yourself as a realist and not take sides one way or the other.
Know the history. Know it well before you make your comments about discrimination in our country. Know the laws and when and where they were put into place. It tells a valuable story. And, that is why I am a realist.
Tuesday July 23, 2013, 6:51 pm
@Diane: No, I am/we are not in the same place when we bashed Bush and Cheney, as you are now.
Bush and Cheney worked hard to destroy the Constitution, can be charged with various crimes against this country, and in other places Bush has been cited for crimes against humanity.
Both ought to have been impeached, for their crap, outright lies and scams that got us into Iraq, and is still getting Americans killed in the Middle East.
By the way, here is s quote about a study done in 1980, published in the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, that speaks directly to the Trayvon Martin case:
"And when people interpret the behavior of someone who is a member of a minority, they interpret it in the context of preconceived stereotypes."
Was that Zimmerman, or what? And, if he had not been allowed,by Florida law to have a concealed weapon, even his myopia would not have been tragic.
Tuesday July 23, 2013, 8:41 pm
Mitchell hit it out of the park. Diane, you harbor preconceived notions about people; therefore, you are prejudiced. Not merely about races other than your own, but about people who have less education, who failed to marry money, who lack special skills or talents. Your prejudice is against everyone not you.
You covertly threaten dire consequences if whe insult you. If you can make the racist and personally insulting rants that you make almost daily and get away with it, then the rest of us shouldn't have anything to worry about.
And, pray tell, what is the cost if care2 doesn't like our remarks? Being banned from posting to care2? LOL. Sorry to burst the bubble, Lady Di. Cry at will to your moderator pals and get me banned from care2. I won't whine about it, dear. You just aren't that important to me.
Truthfully, I am fed up with any group that allows someone like you to besmirch the character of anyone who disagrees with your extreme teabagger viewpoints, yet lands like a ton of bricks on anyone who sullies a conservative opinion.
Wednesday July 24, 2013, 3:22 am
While Diane O is getting all the attention with her long comments, that of Zee Kallah has gone unnoticed.
Her comment made Sunday July 21, 2013, 9:38 pm begins, "The resident of the white house HAD to make a speech." and ends, "What I heard was racism against the whites."
This is very strange & I'm surprised no one has picked up on it. I heard no racism, no expression of hatred concerning white people. The president simply talked about what African Americans commonly experience.
How could anyone possibly hear 'racism against whites' in Obama's speech?
The only point I want to respond to in Diane O's long comment is this: "The Trayvon Martin case is neither proof nor disproof of the US progress in racial relations rather it is an excuse for race mongers to earn their living as tax exempt "civil rights" leaders." --That's an ugly remark, very ugly, what you say about civil rights leaders.
People who acknowledge the racism & discrimination that still exist in this country are not 'race mongers' ! Acknowledging what exists is not creating it! That's like killing the messenger who brings the bad news, IMO. As Obama said, people lock the car doors; women hold their handbags tighter; etc -- And that, at least, is not LIFE THREATENING !
If there are any doubts that African Americans do not still suffer from racism, we need only take a look at the number of innocent, unarmed African Americans killed in encounters with law enforcement & the number of murderers convicted. When guily people, vigilantes and/or police, are not held to account for their actions, we call it IMPUNITY. If white people can kill black people with impunity, well, that's racism -there's no other word for it! Whether the black people in question obtained or did not obtain academic qualifications & meaningful employment is beside the point - they are DEAD & mourned by their families.