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Flight MH 17: Why?

US Politics & Gov't  (tags: GOP Hate, pseudo-Christians, war crimes )

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TomCat S (128)
Sunday July 20, 2014, 12:10 am
When a war crime results in an international tragedy, we want answers. We want them now. We want to know who, and we want to know why. Sadly, it isn’t always that easy, especially when the people responsible seem to be trying to do all they can to obscure the evidence. At this point, I consider the most likely scenario is that Russian separatists, using Russian equipment in which they were not trained well enough to use, thought the plane was a Ukrainian cargo plane and shot it down, but there are other possibilities.

Nancy C (806)
Sunday July 20, 2014, 12:48 am
Possibly punishing researchers AND 80 children...I fear that much evidence is absconded, never to be found. ty Tom

P A (117)
Sunday July 20, 2014, 1:01 am
Oh TC – that last remark about the Repuglicons saying that God wanted the plane to crash because of those AIDS researchers on it just made me DESPAIR!!! What on earth is up with them – God would never, ever, ever do such a thing – as usual they are projecting their own evil onto others and onto God!

Those AIDS researchers were wonderful, dedicated, marvellous human beings – God bless them and all who so sadly lost their lives then – they will be so sadly missed.

Animae C (514)
Sunday July 20, 2014, 3:02 am
Sickened to the core!

Thanx TomCat

Lona G (80)
Sunday July 20, 2014, 6:08 am
I'm sorry, TomCat, but the conspiracy-bug seems to be spreading, and it's affecting areas I'd had hoped were inocculated against it. That Putin would have shot down the plane because he hates homosexuality and therefore wanted to kill the aids-researchers on board is not even a remote possibility, but absolutely ludicrous.

I shall spin one for you, shall I? Mind you, just from the top of my head from what I've been reading here.
Obama and his administration are very unhappy with the way Europe is handling the Ukraine crisis, refusing to interfere while the US would lake to take strong (military) action, but doesn't dare because it is right on our borders. That is why he felt the need to add in his press statement "the episode should be “a wake-up call for Europe” and “should snap everybody’s heads to attention” about what is going on in Ukraine" - a statement that really appals me, by the way.
If there is any nation in the world who knows exactly who boards what plane to where, it is the US who since 9-11 have forced Schiphol airport to give free access to ALL passenger details, including bank account numbers. Any other information is gathered by the NSA. What better way to get Europe to turn on Russia and interfere in Ukraine than by having Ukraine shoot down the plane, have their intelligence tell that it could only have been the rels and put the blame on Russia.
Crazy right! I've just made it up, but this is how easy a conspiracy theory is brought to life.

Let's stick with the first one, that is bad enough for the relatives and friends of those who 192 whose bodies were retrieved and then 'kidnapped' by the rebels and sent to Russia by train. I won't even go to the conspiracy by this so called church, it's far too upsetting.

Arielle S (313)
Sunday July 20, 2014, 7:14 am
This is the first I've heard this - and I can't say it's impossible. Putin is a narcissist of the worst kind and would probably think he could get away with this, all the while laughing on the inside. But.... it doesn't feel right. I feel it was just dumb militants with a mob mentality who thought it would be great fun to shoot down a plane. What I have the most trouble with is how it is all being handled now - why is the world kowtowing to these Russian separatists? There are what, ten nations with dead loved ones there? Why has nobody gone in to take the bodies and their belongings? If the press can get there, why not a healthy gang of rescuers?

Gloria picchetti (304)
Sunday July 20, 2014, 7:15 am
I hope the bodies and remains are returned but it doesn't look good.

Pat B (356)
Sunday July 20, 2014, 7:27 am
My heart breaks. Thanks, Tom.

JL A (281)
Sunday July 20, 2014, 8:39 am
Why are there such speculative stories and conspiracy theories emerging concurrent with the start of every such investigation? It used to be that the media only reported facts and news about such events. Do they believe every one expects everything to be instantly available so they fill the gap with fantasy to meet that invented expectation?

Joanne Dixon (38)
Sunday July 20, 2014, 9:03 am
What JL said.
I'm sure we can all agree to sending our condolences to Lona since a disproportionate number of passengers on the flight were Dutch. Lona, I am - we are - so sorry for what you and your compatriots must be going through.

Jim Phillips (3257)
Sunday July 20, 2014, 9:09 am
Plane crash followed NATO alert on rebel capability
Rachel Maddow whittles away the unsubstantiated reports in the Malaysia Airlines plane crash investigation and points out that NATO warned the world on June 30th that Russia was training Ukrainian separatists on vehicle-borne anti-aircraft capability. (Maddow exposes hollowness of reporting on MH17 downed over Ukraine) A series of 6 VIDEOS:

ty, tc.

Chris C (152)
Sunday July 20, 2014, 12:36 pm
Putin is a megalomaniac! I believe he is absolutely DELIGHTED at the shoot down of MH17 no matter what happened. I believe it's Russian-backed separatists who did this.
Here is a good link to Rachel Maddow's TRUTH!

Gene Jacobson (290)
Sunday July 20, 2014, 12:37 pm
I am not willing to go so far as to say Putin planned and executed the attack. Possible? Sure. But what I am willing to say is that we KNOW from the trajectory and impact of that missile as tracked by one of our own satellites, that it was fired by separatists from within their territory. Possibly from within Russia, but certainly from near that border if not behind it. And it was a missile made by Russia and handed over to those who would use it to murder all those people. They bragged about it in cell conversations that were intercepted. What they have NOT done is admit to their arrogance and their guilt. And that is what must come next. From Putin, from his apologists, from the separatists. It is the only honorable course open to them. Even to those who have no honor. This time, admit apologize, NEVER do it again, and try to make reparations as best you can. Because those innocents deserve that respect. And it must be rendered soon. The longer they delay, the worse this gets. The blood is on their hands. Wash them.

David C (129)
Sunday July 20, 2014, 12:38 pm
......not usually a conspiracy theorist, but I am wondering how the Ukrainian government (and even Mr. Obama) could be so certain so quickly this is the separatists........could this have been a set up???? God (if there is one) I hope not.......

Why???? I can't think of any reasonable answers other than someone shot down something they mistakingly thought was something else....

condolences to all the families.......

David C (129)
Sunday July 20, 2014, 12:39 pm
....well now that Gene's post is added, I am feeling more reasonable about what they say being correct, but for some reason currently not able to actually download the PoliticsPlus page....

Kathleen M (211)
Sunday July 20, 2014, 12:49 pm
Noted. Thanks, TC. My condolences to family and friends of those killed in the crash. A horrific tragedy, whomever's responsible.


Athena F (131)
Sunday July 20, 2014, 12:51 pm
Thank you for the article

Roger G (154)
Sunday July 20, 2014, 1:13 pm
noted, thanks

Henrik Thorsen (31)
Sunday July 20, 2014, 2:04 pm
I agree with Lona Goudswaard on this one.

Birgit W (160)
Sunday July 20, 2014, 3:10 pm
Thanks TC.

reft h (66)
Sunday July 20, 2014, 4:07 pm
I've heard that a lot of evidence was being carted off (like the "black box") so we might never know the truth.
If the truth is to be known, I fear it will take a very long time.

Louise D (44)
Sunday July 20, 2014, 4:23 pm
Putin was voted Conservapedia's Conservative of 2013 and in between his attempts at being all the Village people and trying to annex former parts of the Soviet Union by bombing them back into the stick age, but this is a long shot. He has been certainly facilitating the situation for his evil selfish plans but he tends to avoid mass murder so obviously. This one sort of goes into the realms of Sarah Palin's theory that MH370 flew so high they went to heaven.

Winnie A (179)
Sunday July 20, 2014, 4:50 pm
This is heartbreaking. I morn for all those effected and pray there will be justice and the truth will come out for the world to hear.

Mary Donnelly (47)
Sunday July 20, 2014, 4:55 pm
Thanks Tom.

marie C (163)
Sunday July 20, 2014, 4:56 pm
Thanks Tom Cat

Mitchell D (87)
Sunday July 20, 2014, 6:51 pm
I think Lona is right, and send my condolences, as well.
I had not heard of any pseudo-anythings commenting about the god they say is so kind and loving, in this context, and that's a good thing for my blood pressure. these people, like Pat Robertson, thrive on finding awful things going on and "knowing" that their version of a god made them happen. Just sick bastards!

Barbara Tomlinson (431)
Sunday July 20, 2014, 6:51 pm
There's a REASON that Conspiracy Theories are popping up like mushrooms - and it isn't ONLY the Conspiracy-spinners on Right Wing Radio {altho that's one factor}.
The real Reason, the main one, is, that there ARE some REAL conspiracies out there - some False Flag operations - and it is getting harder & harder to tell the REAL conspiracies that DO exist, from the Spin.

Also, because of the Internet among other things, the Public is MORE AWARE of the "real" conspiracies. So, between that and the Hysteria of the Right-wing Radio, when something very STRANGE happens, "conspiracy theories" are the FIRST things people think of, not the last things.

Martin Luther King's death, it turns out, was a Conspiracy. So was John F Kennedy's. Likely Bobby Kennedy's also. And others... The Reichstag Fire is the Classic one...
The main Conspiracy, of course, is one that nearly everyone is at some level aware of: the so-many UNANSWERED QUESTIONS ABOUT THE EVENTS OF 9/11.....
Heck, getting us INTO WAR with Iraq and Afghanistan, countries at peace that had NEVER ATTACKED THE U.S. or its Allies, THAT was a Conspiracy at the highest levels!!!

So, again, our thoughts IMMEDIATELY TURN to at least the POSSIBILITY of Conspiracies, since Conspiracies are now a REAL SOLID FACT OF LIFE in the Modern World, and, moreover, a Fact that the Public is WIDELY AWARE OF THE POSSIBILITY OF...
If it comes from the Right Wing or religious groups, tho, it's probably NUTS... {God struck down the AIDS researchers! or anti-gay Putin did...}

Many more lives may be lost, besides those on the Plane... as perhaps researchers were close to another Breakthru on AIDS, these were all the Top People in the field.....

Mitchell D (87)
Sunday July 20, 2014, 6:54 pm
I think this was "just" a dumb-ass mistake, by a too eager separatist, too eager to play with his new toy, too eager to jump to a wrong conclusion: "If it is flying here, it just must be the enemy."

Bill and Katie D (107)
Sunday July 20, 2014, 7:01 pm
Thank you TomCat

Shirley S (187)
Sunday July 20, 2014, 7:51 pm
Whatever the reason it is a wholesale TRAGEDY!!!

Vicky P (476)
Sunday July 20, 2014, 8:17 pm
I agree that it is probably the Russian soon as this happened, there were already conspiracy theories about it

Lynn S (235)
Sunday July 20, 2014, 9:27 pm
I had wondered if, as the Russians are training the rebels, one of the rebels "accidently" fired the missile as part of a training exercise. As Infidel said, that certainly doesn't change Putin's culpability. He's culpable right up to the top of his bald pate! I firmly believe that Putin and the others involved should stand trial for murder at the International Criminal Court. Further, I think that Russia, if convicted, should lose its veto power on the UN Security Council, but that is another matter for another day as I don't think there should be any veto powers.

At church today, we had prayers for the victims and their families and friends. There are many candles lit. May the light of love and compassion transcend the darkness of evil and despair.

Edith B (146)
Sunday July 20, 2014, 9:44 pm
The whole international community should be demanding an explanation from Putin. I heard one news person say today that Putin is an aspiring Czar. This should be evident to all who live on the Russian border or anywhere in Europe.
The Westboro church people should be condemned by all and tried for cruelty to everyone.

Whatever the reason, my heart goes out to the families of those who died.

TomCat S (128)
Monday July 21, 2014, 12:01 am
Thanks all. Please note that in authoring this particular gem that I called it a hypothesis, and said it was not likely enough to even be called a theory. I merely wanted to point out that as absurd as it seems, there is actually more supporting evidence for it than there is for the things Putin is now claiming, because Putin is in league with the same Republican Supply-side pseudo-Christian Dominionist groups that wrote the Ugandan legislation that would have made being gay a capital offense in Uganda. I still think the problem is that Putin gave Russian separatist ammosexuals bigger guns than they could handle.

Barbara Tomlinson (431)
Monday July 21, 2014, 12:37 am
Well, speaking of Conspiracy Theories, there is always THIS "strange" fact or anomaly:
What was the Malaysian passenger plane doing anyway, flying over a WAR ZONE?!
All by itself, other passenger planes didn't go near there!
Was it off-course? Was this incompetence, an "accident", or did someone MAKE that happen?
I guess one can tamper with a plane's computer system and put it on "automatic pilot", lock that in, overriding the actual pilot... which might have happened with the 4 planes on 9/11; and what about that OTHER "gone missing" Malaysian plane? {Was that a Dress Rehearsal of sorts?}

Well, by now there have been enough REAL Conspiracies, that "the well has been poisoned" and EVERYthing looks like a Conspiracy, whether it really is nor not...
Before the Internet, REAL Conspiracies could be hidden from people that didn't have the "inside knowledge"; now it's harder to HIDE such "inside knowledge", but on the other hand there is more confusion as there's TOO MUCH knowledge, much of it mis-information as well as deliberate DIS-information...

[Speaking of 9/11: the Boeing 757 that supposedly "hit the Pentagon" - where was the debris, the piles of twisted metal and ash, where were the BODIES??? You've seen and heard about the debris and bodies from the Malaysian plane... Some of us think that NO Boeing 757 hit the Pentagon, there are NO tapes of it shown, altho the Pentagon of all places, is under surveillance 24/7... Some of us think it was something smaller, like a missile, that hit the Pentagon... see Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth, for more info.
THIS airplane crash certainly DOES raise and remind us of, VERY LEGITIMATE QUESTIONS unanswered about 9/11... and it's not irrelevant to ask them NOW, or any time...]

Maria Teresa Schollhorn (42)
Monday July 21, 2014, 12:55 am
Noted. Thank you TomCat.

PlsNoMessage se (588)
Monday July 21, 2014, 3:18 am
Good to see Ron Paul have common sense:

Lona G (80)
Monday July 21, 2014, 4:24 am
Sorry, BMutiny, at that particular time only 25% of all flights passing that area had been cancelled by a few airlines, as Ukraine had declared the airspace above 10 km safe and these commercial planes fly at an altitude of 11-13 km. At that time there were approximately still 200 flights a day crossing Eastern Ukraine.
Sorry to uproot this part of the conspiracy.

Terrie Williams (798)
Monday July 21, 2014, 6:49 am
My sympathy and condolences to the families of this flight. All in all, no matter what we think or hypothesize or conjecture....the plain simple truth, no matter who or what side perpetrated this is still a WAR CRIME and Mr. Pooty-Poot deep down knows that. So does everyone else. But when the dust settles and the real perp is found out.....will he or they go to The Hague? Ummmmmmmm......has Darth Vader Cheney? Has Dubya? Has Rummy? You get the picture. Oh, there will be more sanctions and what-not, at worst case---our troops will get involved, but in the end, perps get off scott free which is now SOP these days. SIGH.

Jamie Clemons (282)
Monday July 21, 2014, 10:31 am
Speaking of conspiracy theories why is it that before any facts are gathered and before any investigation is even started they rush to blame the Pro-Russian rebels? What possible political motives could we have to gain in helping Kerry's son get billions in gas deal revenues with the Ukraine? Why would the pro-Russian missiles be any different from the Ukrainian missiles that was part of Russia less than a year ago? Why did they allow civilian flights over a war zone that had recently shot down military planes? There is plenty of blame to go around for everyone. Our own government admitted shooting down a civilian Iranian passenger plane in 88 All 290 on board, including 66 children and 16 crew, died. Are we so blameless ourself that we can just crucify others for doing the same things we have done and with no evidence. How will there ever be a impartial investigation when we already cast the blame and are just looking for guilt?

Jamie Clemons (282)
Monday July 21, 2014, 10:33 am
"Iran Air Flight 655 was an Iran Air civilian passenger flight from Tehran to Dubai that was shot down by the United States Navy guided missile cruiser USS Vincennes on 3 July 1988. The accident took place in Iranian airspace, over Iran's territorial waters in the Persian Gulf, and on the flight's usual flight path. The aircraft, an Airbus A300 B2-203, was destroyed by SM-2MR surface-to-air missiles fired from the Vincennes.

All 290 on board, including 66 children and 16 crew, died"
quoted from wikipedia

TomCat S (128)
Monday July 21, 2014, 11:54 pm
I'm sorry, but Ron Paul is still a racist malignant gnome. If he had any common sense at all, he would not have reproduced.

Jamie the missile launch was tracked by a US satellite. We know where it came from. Three RT Reporters have resigned, because they refused to tell Putin's lies. I think it's absurd to suggest that people should remained silent about war crimes, because the US has committed that ware crime. The list of war crimes the US has never committed is infinitesimally short.

Monika K (13)
Wednesday July 23, 2014, 3:13 am
Why? Because you can die anytime, anywhere.

Ela V (85)
Sunday July 27, 2014, 3:40 am
I am so sorry for the lives lost! For all the three babies on that plane, for all the 80 children there! And let us not forget our younger brothers, the animals that were on board that plane! I mourn for the 2 dogs that died in this tragedy! And for the 5 pigeons and the 5 exotic birds! I mourn together with their loved ones!

Unfortunately first casualty of war is always the innocent!

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