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Fears Grow That Obama Can't Win


US Politics & Gov't  (tags: USA, Hillary Clinton, Obama, McCain, run for US Presidency, white voters, minorities, vote-getters )

K. A.
- 2243 days ago - guardian.co.uk
Sen. Clinton has been making that argument for weeks. Now some recent polls and analysis, looking particularly at vital battleground states and support among white voters, have bolstered her case!



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Comments

K. A. Hilliker (293)
Saturday May 31, 2008, 5:18 pm
Sceptics in the party, already nervous about nominating Obama after the furore over outspoken pastor Jeremiah Wright, are growing increasingly concerned. 'There is an element of buyer's remorse in some areas. The question is whether it gets really strong now or in September - or even after the election is over, if he loses,' said Steve Mitchell, head of political consultancy Mitchell Research.

Since 4 March, Clinton has won around half a million more votes than Obama. That run of victories should easily continue today when Puerto Rico goes to the polls, and could even extend to the final primaries - South Dakota and Montana - which vote on Tuesday. Obama had been expected to win there, but Clinton has been campaigning furiously and it could be close.

There is also a growing fear that many of the women backing Clinton are turning against Obama. Clinton and her supporters have controversially accused their rival, and the media, of being misogynistic in the last few weeks of the race. A recent Pew Poll showed Obama's support among white women collapsing from 56% to 43%.

IS this election rigged? Is Democracy a myth? Does anyone's vote actually count? Are a whole heck of a lot of Americans fearing their voices did NOT get heard?

You betcha!
 

Peace P. (4)
Saturday May 31, 2008, 6:43 pm
Why is this election rigged? Because your candidate didn't win?

Barack Obama won the most popular votes, the most states, the most pledged delegates, the most superdelegates, and he raised more money at the grassroots level from individual donors than any candidate in history. Now MI and FL are seated, as expected. What's more to argue about?

You make everything about gender (just have alook at your homepage). This primary election should have been about qualifications and who could inspire Americans, but too many people brought in other factors.

Now that Obama is the candidate, hopefully we can unite and move forward. I know I won't be voting for anyone who voted for war.

 

A. M. (20)
Saturday May 31, 2008, 8:44 pm
No sorry Yoda, we wont be supporting your guy. Dream on and have some more Kool Aid. Didnt vote for the war? Didnt vote for much, in fact he didnt DO MUCH during his time as a JUNIOR SENATOR, did he? So he really didnt have a chance to be challenged on the BIG ISSUES like terrorism. No wait, he already has shown he is open to friendships with people who identify as anti-American hasnt he?
And we make this about gender? No I dont think so, no more than Obama's folks made it about race. The media made it about gender and the BO campaign and supporters jumped on that bandwagon.
 

Darlene K. (367)
Saturday May 31, 2008, 11:32 pm
Oh Amanda..., I bow to your comment. Very well said, my dear. Excellent points that SHOULDN'T BE FORGOTTEN when Americans are thinking of electing someone as the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, as we endure a recession and turmoil in the middle-east...............................

Wake up America. Another great post Kathy. More are turning against Obama everyday. If he gets the nomination, he won't be accepted by MANY Democrats in November.
 

K. A. Hilliker (293)
Saturday May 31, 2008, 11:39 pm
Yoda, your candidate hasn't won either. So much for your comment.

No one will ever be able to justify what happened today....and there are 2.3 million people who are sitting around very ticked off about what Dean & his elitist crew did today.

The Committee awarded to Senator Obama not only the delegates won by Uncommitted, but four of the delegates won by Senator Clinton. This decision violates the bedrock principles of our democracy and our Party.


Obama, I'd be darn right EMBARRASSED as a candidate to take those delegates and look at yourself in the mirror tomorrow! Why is this inapropriate?

 

Past Member (0)
Sunday June 1, 2008, 5:22 am
Looking on from the outside, I can only wonder whether the divisions between the Obama and Clinton camps really so rancorous that the supporters of the candidate that ultimately loses in the nomination process would really prefer to see four more years of Republican executive under a President McCain?
 

Past Member (0)
Sunday June 1, 2008, 8:37 am
I believe that Obama can win, and I believe Obama and Clinton will unite to win. Also, she will be given a very good position in his Presidency if he wins. I only hope if she wins, she will do the same. LET US UNITE TO WIN THE PRESIDENCY. TY KACTUS
 

Joycey B. (750)
Sunday June 1, 2008, 8:40 am
Well said Bonita.
 

Joycey B. (750)
Sunday June 1, 2008, 8:43 am
I wish people would stop fighting over both candidates. They are both democrats and like Bonita said, thst they can unite. I just wish them both the best and hope we can all accept the winner.
 

Gorilly Girl (339)
Sunday June 1, 2008, 8:48 am
I agree they are both great people and good canadates and I wish both of them well also. All know I support Obama and I dont think its wrong, just like I dont think its wrong that people support Hillary. Both are getting slammed here and there by the news media trying to drudge up all the bad on both...I wanna see the good in the people....

Big Gorilly Hugs
 

Kathleen Opon (51)
Sunday June 1, 2008, 9:46 am
What Obama and his supporters, and the DNC are not hearing is that we Clinton supporters feel that we and our candidate have been abandoned by the Democratic party. I couldn't care less about the party! They don't care about me, or the voters in Michigan and Florida (worth only 50%? What an insult!), or democracy. If it were Obama having delegates stolen from him and being given to someone who wasn't even on the ballot you people would be screaming from the rooftops!

Listen closely - many of us don't feel we are a part of this democratic party any more and thus feel no loyalty to it. We feel that Obama would be damaging to this country and WE WILL NOT VOTE FOR HIM. Just because he has labeled himself "Democrat" doesn't mean he will be any better than what we have now. Just being a "Democrat" is meaningless at this point in time. We are seeing exactly what kind of party we have been supporting, some of us for decades, and it sickens us.

Don't talk to us about loyalty. Your man is a cheater and a crook and is ripping this party apart for his own benefit.

Sorry - you of course have the right to support whoever you want, just like we have the right to support whoever we want. Your efforts to appease us, however, are wasted.
 

Past Member (0)
Sunday June 1, 2008, 10:17 am
Well Kathleen, I can understand and respect not blindly voting for a candidate because of their party affiliation, especially if party in question is as much of a 'broad church' as the Democrats (or the Republicans, for that matter)...

But what really intrigues me is how the disaffected Clinton supporters (such as yourself) will vote, and why - correct me if I'm wrong, but in terms of political platform, isnít Obama far closer to Hillary than McCain (or any potential minor candidates)?
 

Kathleen Opon (51)
Sunday June 1, 2008, 1:58 pm
Well, I guess we will vote our conscience. At this time we still don't have a nominee, so the question is hypothetical. If Clinton is not the nominee I will have to look at the platforms of everyone who is in the race and decide who best fits in with my own values. You say Obama's political platform is closer to Hillary than McCain, but as far as I'm concerned Obama has not had enough time in the Senate to actually HAVE a persuasive platform. He can say whatever he wants to make people believe that he wants the same things we do, but he has never actually DONE anything to prove to me that he can follow those words up with action. I live in Illinois and all he has done since being elected to the Senate is run for president. I will not vote for him because he is still a big unknown. I don't trust him. I don't feel like I know him. And every molecule of my being feels he is arrogant, inexperienced, and not ready for this important position.

Obama needs time to show people he can do what he says before trying to be our president. Although I won't be voting for McCain, I can understand why many Clinton supporters will if she is not the nominee. He has been around forever, he has a political track record, he is loyal to the USA. It is more comfortable for people to vote for someone they feel they know, even if they don't agree with everything he says, than to risk an unknown such as Obama.
 

Past Member (0)
Sunday June 1, 2008, 6:14 pm
Thanks Kathleen... It's interesting to see that experience is the question (far better that than a candidate's race or gender, in my opinion).

The electorate down here in Australia was posed a similiar question in the election late last year - a choice between the John Howard, who had been prime minister for 11 years, and Kevin Rudd, who hadn't even served in parliament for that long. In the end, the country voted for Rudd. And whilst I personally don't feel that his administration has been universally successful thus far, it's still the case of better the devil you don't know so far.

By the way, The Guardian has today printed an opinion piece on the divide in the Democrats between the Obama and Clinton supporters: Unify America? Obama Should Start With the Democrats
 

Maria V. (60)
Sunday June 1, 2008, 10:42 pm
There is a lot coming down the pipeline that will bury Obama. There are reasonS why Hillary has not concede to Obama, as much as every one is pushing her to do so. She is a smart lady, and she knows what she is doing. Hillary is collecting her votes so that history and angry Obamanites can NOT argue she won by default. Obama will not win the White House. Obama is a dirty politician - - CNN did a report on how he won the Senate seat. The far left media is starting to jump on the cautionary and "real" journalist approach to Obama's true candidacy train, as they are hearing ramblings of what is about to be exposed.The left media ( i.e.MSNBC, CNN) are worry that they will be bury too rating wise as blind bias journalists LOL. Just last week, MSNBC started to concede that Obama is hurting big in important swing states and demographics. New York times said that Obama, their rockstar, is "wheezing" to the finish line.

No, it will not be the emotional about face of the media that will put an end to Obama. But what they will have to, NEED to report. My guess are the following alleged .... More unscrupulous and anti American associates, he has a closet full of them. An indictment at the heels of his buddy Rezko's indictment. Malicious and unscrupulous, even for a politician, arm wrestling of the delegates and super delegates pledges with money and career pressure or both in concert with Left wing machines as MoveOn and Soros. Michele Obama's mouth - - there is a tape that the media is fighting for that recorded Michele referring to white people as "whitey" the "whitey vote." And that is just the tip of the ice berg. Clinton will be a two term president.

 

AniTa H. (142)
Monday June 2, 2008, 12:05 am
Well when it boils down to it....will you Americans be happy with another GW Bush?...Because that is exactly what McCain is!! Of course Hillary IS backed by the zionist AIPAC lobby so either way you are screwed!
 

K. A. Hilliker (293)
Monday June 2, 2008, 12:17 am
Ohhh, Anita....LOL! You make me laugh that you called yourself, too...."you Americans"....unless you're an illegal, aren't you living in CA?? I believe it should ahve been written, "will we Americans".....and personally, I'm not sure with Care2, but I prefer you using the s-word elsewhere. Frankly, it didn't add a THING to the conversation here.
 

Marj G. (29)
Monday June 2, 2008, 12:35 am
Hey Kactus, I found this petition for Hillary and thought you might be interested.Please pass it on it's a good one. http://clintondems.com/
 

AniTa H. (142)
Monday June 2, 2008, 4:32 am
You sound very 'patriotic' kat....no i am not illegal, nor am i an American, and you sound typically arrogant!
 

Carol W. (119)
Monday June 2, 2008, 5:42 am

Why wait until November? Introducing the next president of the United States.
http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/283.html

It is my belief that Hillary knows gluing the drawers shut was a bit juvenile when they moved out of the big house.

She is not in this campaign to win, rather to make sure McBush has a sure seat. She already has written her book I think.
 

Blue Bunting (855)
Monday June 2, 2008, 7:52 am
Hillary Clinton signed a pledge she broke:

Hillary Clinton Accepted & Signed the DNC Rules Barring MI & FL ! On Sept. 1 2007, she accepted and signed the DNC rules barring any other states having a primary earlier than the specified date.

BILL CLINTON makes "the deal" to cover Hillary's cheating and lying:


Bill Clinton Caught On Tape: Seat Half The Delegates... (Audio)After
delivering an explanation of how the delegate deadlock came to be,
Clinton concludes by saying, ""probably the only option is to seat them under our rules, as half delegates." This is significant in that the Clinton campaign has publicly insisted

Donna Brazile "outs" the Clintons":

Quote of the day (fro the DNC "rules" committee meeting:

"My momma taught me to play by the rules and respect those rules. My mother taught me, and I'm sure your mother taught you, that when you decide to change the rules, middle of the game, end of the game, that is referred to as cheating.'" -- Donna Brazile to former Michigan Gov. Jim Blanchard, who was making the case for the Clinton campaign to get 73 delegates out of Michigan with 55 for uncommitted.
 

Past Member (0)
Monday June 2, 2008, 8:00 am
Guilt by association with those deemed to be 'anti-American'?

And I thought the HUAC and suchlike had finished over 30 years ago.

 

Nancy M. (201)
Monday June 2, 2008, 9:46 am
Come on now, this bickering over the two candidates is EXACTLY what republicans are hoping for. Regardless of who gets the nomination, it certainly would help to have a unified party supporting the nominee.

If you want to find negatives, you can find them about anyone. White water anyone? I voted for Obama. I hope he is the nominee. I like Hillary too, and will vote for her for president if she is the nominee. Is that misogyny? No. I simply like Obama better as a presidential candidate.

 

Peace Monger (185)
Monday June 2, 2008, 9:57 am
Dave, to reply to your post about guilt by association with those 'deemed' to be anti American, or in many cases UN-American if they disagree with the opinions/beliefs held by some; I'm fed up with those who feel they have a right to name ANYONE who differs with them as anything but American! What gives these people the right to question my or anyone's right to dissent, particularly when it is mine and every other citizens right as an American to disagree!
The USA was founded so that we can question our govt without fear of reprisal or threat, however, it now appears politically correct to call others traitors if they don't agree with your opinion/stance.
As far as any candidate running for pres, in my opinion there is no one who instills confidence to bring the USA back to it's former greatness. Those who are running are owned by corporate America and international conglomerates and care nothing for the American people except for what tax they pay or capabilty to fill positions within the military. Cynical? Yes I s'pose so, but what else can one be after all the articles available on the net? Hillary, Obama, John??? Sorta like pick your corporate puppet as far as I'm concerned.
 

Maria V. (60)
Monday June 2, 2008, 10:09 am
I will pick the most experience "corporate puppet" with the most love for this country - McCain The American Hero with a life time of experience. Obama does not love this country ask Wright, Ayers, Frakkan and his own wife. Obama does not have experience to wipe his nose let alone hold the highest office. No, I am not saying that now because I am upset about how Hillary has been treated by the DNC, and then I will come home to DNC come November - I am not a puppet and can think for myself thanks to this country. So I will vote much conscious which is more than I can say about the so call super delegates.

Associates says boat loads about who you are - Tell me who your friends are and tell you who you are. Frankly, I would not want to be in a room with none of Obama friends they scare me.
 

Blue Bunting (855)
Monday June 2, 2008, 10:13 am
Maria, you forgot to mention that Clinton (pardoned) commuted the sentences of two of the "Weathermaen"

 

Kathleen Opon (51)
Monday June 2, 2008, 10:22 am
Interesting article, Dave, but obviously slanted anti-Clinton. The article seems to blame Clinton for things her supporters are saying and doing, something we have been told shouldn't be done as far as Obama is concerned - even the hate-spewing church he has attended for over twenty years should not reflect on him as a candidate according to his supporters (I'm aware he has now quit the church). Also, the article and just about every other media outlet, continues to make it look like Obama has more pledged delegates than he has. It says (before Puerto Rico)

"He now has 2,053 delegates and is 65 short of sewing up the nomination."

However, this includes superdelegates, who are not committed or "pledged".
The truth is (and these numbers vary depending on which site you use, but all are pretty close) after Puerto Rico and the DNC fiasco (where Obama was GIVEN delegates from votes that were not for him), Obama has about 1757 "pledged" delegates - FAR short of the 2118 he needs for the nomination. Unless the DNC changes their precious "rules" for Obama, there is no way he can clinch the nomination without a roll call at the convention.

I've been looking at these numbers since I am appalled at the decision the DNC made regarding Michigan and Florida and after playing around with different scenarios it is clear to me why the DNC did what they did, and I have to wonder if this wasn't the plan all along. If you add up the REAL delegate counts, including the ones from the CERTIFIED votes in Florida and Michigan, Clinton would have about 1714 and Obama would have 1733 (excluding Michigan, since those delegates were from votes for "uncommitted"). A difference of 19 delegates! Even adding in the 55 delegates that had originally been awarded to "uncommitted" the difference between the two candidates is only 74 delegates.

Hillary is now over 200,000 votes ahead in the popular vote. I know that's not supposed to count, but the truth is, if we used a "winner take all" system in our primaries she would have wrapped it up a long time ago. And this popular vote is important in determining who can best win in the fall.

The way the DNC is orchestrating this election is unethical and looks to me pretty illegal. I hope Hillary and Michigan and Florida continue to fight this travesty.

And as far as experience, that's only part of it. Certainly none of the three major candidates has governing experience. It is more an issue of trust.
 

Kathleen Opon (51)
Monday June 2, 2008, 10:48 am
Marjorie - Great website - petition signed!
 

Ray D. (2)
Monday June 2, 2008, 11:00 am
Not true not true. It's the other way around. The Democratic party has not abandoned Hillary Clinton. She has abandoned the Democratic Party with a win at all costs demeanor and we will have none of it. Any HC supporter that votes for McCain is just a run of the mill sore loser. We are sorry but you can't win all of the time.

http://www.bccmeteorites.com/misconduct-planetary.html
SRD

 

Kathleen Opon (51)
Monday June 2, 2008, 11:14 am
Ray, what in the world does that website have to do with Hillary Clinton? If you are referring to campaign tactics, I would say it would fit much more nicely with Obama. Her "win at all costs demeanor" as you describe it would be considered strength if she were a man! She has been cheated and the voters have been cheated. She is trying to insure a democratic process but is being met with resistance at every turn from Obama and the DNC.
 

K. A. Hilliker (293)
Monday June 2, 2008, 12:29 pm
Anita, I'm so NOT arrogant...just making sure you were an American BEFORE you start throwing your opinions around like you own us. I've been very critical of people from other countries thinking THEY know what's best for America - when you don't even know what's best for your own countries!!!! TRUTH. That doesn't take arrogance...except, probably on YOUR part!

If there's anything at all that can ban a bunch of Americans together more closely - it's the criticism of OTHERS criticizing us. And no matter who we decide to pick for president here in America, you can bet - NONE of us is going to want to hear about how bad/good they are from a FOREIGNER!! PERIOD.
 

K. A. Hilliker (293)
Monday June 2, 2008, 12:31 pm
Carol W......speaking of glueing something shut........uhmmm...would she have made it thus far without a whole lot....and I do mean, a WHOLE lot of votes?
 

K. A. Hilliker (293)
Monday June 2, 2008, 12:32 pm
Blue, you and your posts from other years, are like old, broken records....please try to stick to the topic. Life on Obama's end must be quite boring today, huh? *sigh* Over, and over, and over, and over...........
 

K. A. Hilliker (293)
Monday June 2, 2008, 12:41 pm
Nancy.....thanks for trying to make PEACE here....but I don't think Obama fans want peace. Have you ever asked any of them? The completely JUMP, THEN ATTACK every ...and I do mean, EVERY article that I've ever posted pro-Hillary here on Care2. Is there a respect shown HILLARY supporters here on Care2?? NO. ABSOLUTELY NOT! Not even common courtesy. And it's been that way here for months, and months and months and months.

I, personally, used to only post articles about the safety and welfare of children. That is, until I saw several slanderous comments made by .........well, you know her, one day. It was reported to Care2 immediately, they did absolutely nothing, and from then on, I was determined I would never let an OBAMA article here go by without EQUAL treatment. Yes, it was the Obama supporters - right here are some of them - who started this mean, inflammatory commenting. You're just seeing what it looks like on down the line - many many months later.

The one thing the Obama supporters have yet to realize, we're not going away.....Those of you who have noticed that Obama is no angel himself, just MAY be smart enough to realize it's now OUR turn to leave a few comments about HIS character, HIS flaws, HIS mistakes, HIS inexperience, HIS embarrassments! As I've said before - he's a politician - ain't gonna be no saint........and certainly HIS wife isn't either.
 

K. A. Hilliker (293)
Monday June 2, 2008, 12:44 pm
Ray, Ray, Ray.....the sign, I guess, of a good article is when the TROLLS start showing up! Trust me, the Obama camp hates trolls - esp. those that come from GW-land! Yeeeeeeehhaawwww!
 

Phyllis S. (0)
Monday June 2, 2008, 12:54 pm
For Obama supporters, checf www.snopes.com and click on Obama. Then click on his mother link and read the entire thing. Be sure to read the Comment on the bottom. If this doesn't sway you, nothing will. God help us if Obama gets elected. This calls for Heavy Duty Praying that he doesn't make it. Let's face it. The lesser of two evils is voting for McCain. He at least has the history, experience, and is much more knowledgeable.
 

Maria V. (60)
Monday June 2, 2008, 12:56 pm
Kactus Kat
BRAVO WELL SAID! I salute you! Thank you:)
 

Judy H. (5)
Monday June 2, 2008, 1:07 pm
MOST of the comments above sound to me like Republican propaganda. Let's look at McCain and Hillary. They both seem to have a problem with the "truth". Guess that's why those who want Hillary in there, would choose McCain if she doesn't make it. So, McCain was a "war hero". Does that make him a good politician. He's been riding in Bush's back pocket forever and now that he sees how much EVERYONE HATES Bush, he's decided not to ride there anymore. It's true that this is where the bashing really starts, now that Obama most likely will be the nominee. Hillary thinks she has more popular votes than Obama but that's because she's failing to count his "caucus" votes (which are ligitimate). As for Michigan and Florida, Obama gave Hillary the votes for Florida. When he found out that the votes for Michigan and Florida were NOT going to count, he took his name off the ballot. SOOOO does that give her the right to take ALL of the votes for Michigan and who were the uncommitted voting for? If it was for Hillary, they would have checked her name. The reason the republicans want her to be the nominee is they feel they have a better chance of beating her than Obama. I'm just hoping that WHOEVER is the democratic nominee, they pick that person and NOT McBush. This country cannot afford another Bush in the whitehouse. You all better unite sometime soon.
 

K. A. Hilliker (293)
Monday June 2, 2008, 1:19 pm
See? Exaxtly what I said.....Hello Troll, Phyllis, and TRoll Judy! It's alwyas good to see people NOT involved in ANYTHING here on Care2 BUT to blast away at an article that is posted (without contempt) about HILLARY CLINTON. Sit down, kick up your feet, and sip your mocha latte's!

Judy, Judy, Judy.....I love the way you say that this sounds like Republican propanda, and then mention HILLARY CLINTON. Are you from another country? Another planet? Another universe? Hillary Clinton has been in the race for the DEMOCRATIC candidate for PRESIDENT of the UNITED STATES for a day or two. Any time you make a reference to Hillary being like McCain, could you ALSO pretend to know that OBAMA, as a junior senator from ILLINOIS has marched like HILLARY CLINTON's shadow around the Capitol building for several years!!!! So much for the 10 secs. of fame you think your comment will be bringing. Obama has cloned SO MANY of HILLARY's votes, ideas, recommendations, that he's YET to take a step AWAY from the shadows of her senatorship, let alone her campain platform!

And as for the decision on "dividing" FL & MI .....I'm not even sure OBAMA WANTS what happened to his campaign over the weekend. By forcing those delegates and votes upon him - votes that were cast for someone else, this makes him look like he's a beggar who needs food to sustain his campaign.

If that's the kind of way we want to elect a president, well....some people may want to sit back and take that. Unfortunately, there are millions of Americans who totally disagree with you.

 

Maria V. (60)
Monday June 2, 2008, 2:06 pm
Judy, you are so wrong I am sorry to say. Obama is a Karl Rove dream. Hillary is vetted, Obama is not. And what has been exposed about Obama thus far is ugly very ugly, he is a horrible person. And he is not qualified. McCain has been in public service as long as Obama has been alive. If you think... that Obama is being shredded politically and personally you have not seen anything yet. Wait, until RNC and all those swifter boaters start their campaign of the truth of Obama. I am voting for McCain because he IS an experience politician, although I rather have Hillary at the whelm, McCain is the best second choice. And if Hillary is the VP, I still will not vote for that ticket, I will not settle for the "consolation price." Obama will still be "running" the country as President and that truly scares me. I am so sick and tire of the DNC, for forty years we have only won the white house twice, if not mistaken. GOP is a very strong and unified group. They would rather run against the inexperienced black male that has not been vetted than the experience vetted white woman. Lets not forget Hillary pretty much was in the co pilot seat for eight years. Obama has yet to complete two years as junior senator.
 

Nancy M. (201)
Monday June 2, 2008, 3:13 pm
Kactus Kat, Hey don't blame all Obama fans- I am one! Yes, on this site anyway it seems that Hillary fans are hating Obama and claim they won't vote for him and vice versa. I don't know who started it and don't care. And yes, there certainly are a few vehement Hillary haters out there. I have not actually seen that where I am in the place where I live. But I do see it here and no, I am not one of them. I like her and will vote for her is she is the nominee.

People have told me that Obama won't win and post polls, yet the polls are pretty much neck and neck. Certainly doesn't support that Hillary is the golden candidate either. Others have claimed that Obama has alot of negatives that are about to come out. Well, I will keep my eyes opened and am looking for it. We'll see.
 

Nancy M. (201)
Monday June 2, 2008, 3:30 pm
Phyllis, I Just looked at the Snopes.com site. All I noticed was a bunch of Urban legend statements and then red circles indicating that they were false. When you clicked key words, there was also explanation of where they came from and why they were incorrect (most of them). Sorry, I guess you didn't see the red dots.
 

Carol W. (119)
Monday June 2, 2008, 4:23 pm

whewww. Ron Paul is still in the race and did not vote for the Iraq War, wants to end the Fed Reserve that will end in full the Nat'l Debt. and as far as Democrats or Republicans you are being manipulated with false promises.
It is the first time in my life I refuse to vote for the lesser of 2 evils.
Not one of these hollow people will stand up to the Israel Lobby, G. bush Crimes, 9/11 Truth, or Health Care, while they are busy securing their family fortunes and purposeful int'l connections

Do we need to vote for a King?
Please channel your emotions and energy for parting ways with Govt., Banking, and the like. At least plant the seed for planning how you will care for your own family.

Ha, makes me think that once we had a Govt. that Represented and Stood for the People. Now we have people that are standing for Govt. , in any size and devoted to representing them.

You have no idea the life styles and power available to these socialites.
It doesn't take a President to provide Health, Education, & Jobs. It takes a handful of these very well connected folks if they wish to do so.

Ron Paul was never given a fair anything at anytime.
Cynthia McKinney is a black woman with a moral compass.

Obama will be good for the NWO as his intentions are set on saving Africa.
Hillary will be good for the NWO but too expensive to support
McCain, ha ha ha... Is all the Repulicans know and think they have.

I think of Hillary and I see a police state. Obama and I see sincere passion to help others not just the gain in power. McCain blinds me, I see nothing there. (l:

 

Past Member (0)
Monday June 2, 2008, 5:06 pm
Kim: There has been a similar thing down here in Australia, particularly during John Howard's prime minister-ship... Those who did not share the opinions of the more conservative elements of middle Australia (ie those who shared the opinions of Howard) were routinely branded un-Australian. It was sad to see, to say the least.
 

Past Member (0)
Monday June 2, 2008, 5:10 pm



Kactus...

"NONE of us is going to want to hear about how bad/good they are from a FOREIGNER!! PERIOD"

Why? Donít us non-Americans have valid opinions?

Seems like a fairly discriminatory viewpoint to me.
 

K. A. Hilliker (293)
Monday June 2, 2008, 5:34 pm
Nancy, feel free to email me, and I'll be MORE than happy to respond to the "I have never seen a negative remark by a HILLARY-hater here on Care2". Obviously, you aren't reading my listed articles. Nuf' said.

Carol W.: After reading many many articles over this past year, and listenign to Ron Paul speak, the group (definitely not all Hillary supporters) I was sitting with during several speeches and debates he gave & were in, most decided (I refrained) the man is a scary lunatic. I wouldn't go quite that far, but yes, I'd think he was probably the THIRD evil. :) In fact, I betcha Ron Paul thinks he can also re-part the Red Sea!

Dave K. I am more than anxious to hear what CONSTRUCTIVE criticism you may hav ein solving our individual problems, but I am NOT interested in hearing from anyone out of the US about electing OUR presidents. As I said before, you ....right there from Aussie-land can do the VERY best job of combining all Americans into one beast of a country by riling up any one of us. We may disagree between ourselves, but let someone OUT of this country try to tell us what's best for OUR country, and you're going to see one heck of a UNITED front in our UNITED STATES.

Please don't think I'm making this up......it's certainly not me who has said this....pick up some literature by our forefathers, past presidents, present congresspeople, and historians of American life.
 

Past Member (0)
Monday June 2, 2008, 6:13 pm
I'm sorry, Kactus, but exactly where have I partaken in "combining all Americans into one beast of a country"? Certainly not on this thread, or anywhere on this website, or indeed anywhere at all...

Anyway, people from the US and around the world often feel sufficiently moved to voice their opinions on events other countries - rightly so in the case of things like Robert Mugabe's misrule in Zimbabwe, for example.

So, given that an American president has the power to influence the lives of people right across the world, why shouldn't those people voice their opinions about the election of American presidents?

And whilst you might personally be "NOT interested in hearing from anyone out of the US about electing OUR presidents" (although this article that you posted is from a British newspaper) there are perhaps others who are more ecumenical in their interest in what us foreigners think, making our contributions both valid and welcome.
 

Kristi K. (2038)
Monday June 2, 2008, 8:38 pm
I am still hoping that Hillary Clinton will be the nominee. I don't think that Obama can beat McCain. Why are we (the Democrats) backing someone with so little experience? It makes no sense to me.
 

Past Member (0)
Monday June 2, 2008, 8:45 pm
Kristi -- I wish the Republicans had asked themselves that question back in 2000 before they nominated "W" as their choice...
 

Past Member (0)
Monday June 2, 2008, 8:47 pm
Please consider the consequences of voting McCain into office. No one is saying you have to vote for Obama if (when) he runs in November. I do not suggest you skip the vote, but there are other options.
 

Maria V. (60)
Monday June 2, 2008, 9:20 pm
"W" Had more experience than Obama, "W" is a two term president. And to add insult to injury "W's" approval rating is higher than congress. So much for Pelosi huh? Gas double under her control and now she wants to bury Clinton, even though Pelosi knows Clinton is the ONE that can beat McCain. Pelosi is a stupid politician who has accomplish nothing other then to have a lower rating than the President's. I wish the Republicans loan their crystal ball to the democrats for this year's elections. There is no accident that the maverick American Hero that straddle both ails was nominated, much to the chagrin of the conservatives. I will be voting for McCain, as Obama baggage seen and unseen scares me, never mind that he has no experience to speak up other than 18 months as a Junior Senator who voted present 130 times.
 

Carol W. (119)
Tuesday June 3, 2008, 7:36 am
I thought Ross Perot was a frightening thought and in hindsight can not imagine anything more frightening than the past 16 years of Clinton/Bush.
R. Paul is offering the door that leads back to the beliefs & values that are at the core of American Freedom.

This election has been nothing less than the next step for paving the way to further concentrate power & wealth globally, and the mentioned candidates can only see the paths carved out for them by previous administrations.

Four more years of this hijacking by fanatical Ideologist & religious extremist will have all begging and bowing to Dictatorship before 2012.

Bush joked openly, "I don't mind a Dictatorship, as long as I am the Dictator". Meaning, the rulers have already been chosen and like FOX reports, " If your not with us, your against us."
It would seem that the media concurs with him.

"It ain't over til the fat lady sings."
Who is this fat lady?
is it the American people who blindly trust that Govt. knows better than their selves as to what is best for them? And the masses believing that Govt. will do more to take care of them, than they can do for their own families.

Ron Paul scary? I'll take this kind of fear any day over what the present blueprint has in store for us....

God, I hate being so cynical.

**
of possible interest:
Arianna Huffington: HuffPost News Hunt: Keeping the Media Honest When It Comes to Covering McCain

It's suddenly become fashionable to critique the role the media played in the run-up to the war in Iraq. Six years after it could have made a real difference. Are we seeing history repeat itself in the run-up to Election Day? The same journalists rendered "too deferential" by George Bush's soaring post-9/11 approval ratings now seem intent on providing cover for John McCain. To try to keep that from happening, HuffPost is launching the John McCain News Hunt, an investigative project designed to take a clear-eyed look at the media's coverage of McCain. And we need your help to make sure there will be no after-the-fact books about how the media "enabled" John McCain to hide behind his phony reputation as a maverick and win the presidency.
 

LucyKaleido ScopeEyes (79)
Tuesday June 3, 2008, 9:43 am
I don't know if I am still blocked by the great democrat who posted this story, but I'll make a try :

The title of the article "Fears Grow That Obama Can't Win" sounds like something straight out of Hillary campaign headquarters.

The title is explained in greater detail in the article, though : "But sceptics in the party, already nervous about nominating Obama after the furore over outspoken pastor Jeremiah Wright, are growing increasingly concerned."

So ----- 'sceptics in the party' is another way of saying those who don't support Obama.

So, of course, they're gonna say he can't win. This isn't fact - it's what the Clinton machine WANTS the Democrats to flip out about...get everybody worried, so he won't be nominated.

I am appalled by the lack of open-mindedness in some of the comments in this discussion, the anti-foreigners theme, in particular.
 

Maria V. (60)
Tuesday June 3, 2008, 10:27 am
There is a trickling down the pipeline... stay tune... the pipeline should open full force within a week or two. It will rock the democratic party. You will soon know who is the real Obama. Obama is not the person he would like every one to think he is. There is a litany of accusations that will derail his candidacy. The so called "MSM" is slowly conceding that Obama does not have the support where is most needed to win the White House. MSM is in damage control as they realise that they were horribly mistaken in endorsing Obama as they learn more about him(except for Fox News, that are currently licking their chops). Hillary Clinton will be in the White House. But do not take my word for it... put on your seat belts you are in for hell of a ride.
 
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