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Israel Does Not Want a Palestinian State. Period.


World  (tags: obama, conflict, freedoms, middle-east, israel, UnitedNations, world )

Abdessala
- 940 days ago - informationclearinghouse.info
a coalition of Israeli peace organizations published a list of 50 reasons for Israel to support a Palestinian state. Assuming that you only accept five of them, isn't that enough? What exactly is the alternative, now that the heavens are closing in aroun



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Comments

Brian M. (143)
Tuesday September 20, 2011, 12:10 pm
There will be no peace in the Middle East precisely because none of the parties involved actually want peace.
 

Abdessalam Diab (150)
Tuesday September 20, 2011, 12:13 pm
Israel Does Not Want a Palestinian State. Period.

On Wednesday, a coalition of Israeli peace organizations published a list of 50 reasons for Israel to support a Palestinian state. Assuming that you only accept five of them, isn't that enough? What exactly is the alternative, now that the heavens are closing in around us?

By Gideon Levy

September 15, 2011 "Haaretz" - What will we tell the world next week, at the UN? What could we say? Whether in the General Assembly or the Security Council, we will be exposed in all our nakedness: Israel does not want a Palestinian state. Period. And it doesn't have a single persuasive argument against the establishment and the international recognition of such a state.

So what will we say, that we're opposed? Four prime ministers, Benjamin Netanyahu among them, have said that they're in favor, that it must be accomplished through negotiations, so why haven't we done it yet? Is our argument that we object to it's being a unilateral measure? What's more unilateral than the settlements that we insist on continuing to build? Or perhaps we will say that the route to a Palestinian state runs through Ramallah and Jerusalem, not New York, a la the U.S. secretary of state. The State of Israel itself was created, in part, in the United Nations.

Next week will be Israel's moment of truth, or more precisely the moment in which its deception will be revealed. Be it the president, the prime minister or the ambassador to the UN, even the greatest of public speakers will be incapable of standing before the representatives of the nations of the world and explaining Israeli logic; none of the three will be able to convince them that there is any merit to Israel's position.

Thirty-two years ago, Israel signed a peace agreement with Egypt in which it undertook "to recognize the legitimate rights of the Palestinian people" and to establish an autonomous authority in the West Bank and Gaza Strip within five years. Nothing happened.

Eighteen years ago the prime minister of Israel signed the Oslo Accords, in which Israel undertook to conduct talks in order to achieve a final-status agreement with the Palestinians, including the core issues, within five years. That, too, did not occur. Most of the provisions of the agreement have foundered since then - in the majority of cases because of Israel. What will Israel's advocate at the UN say about this?

For years, Israel claimed that Yasser Arafat was the sole obstacle to peace with the Palestinians. Arafat died - and once again nothing happened. Israel claimed that if only the terror were to stop, a solution would appear. The terror stopped - and nothing. Israel's excuses became increasingly empty and the naked truth was increasingly exposed. Israel does not want to reach a peace arrangement that would involve the establishment of a Palestinian state. This can no longer be covered up in the UN. And what did Netanyahu's Israel expect the Palestinians to do in this case - another round of photo ops, like the ones with Ehud Barak, Ehud Olmert and Tzipi Livni that led nowhere?

The truth is that the Palestinians have just three options, not four: to surrender unconditionally and go on living under Israeli occupation for another 42 years at least; to launch a third intifada; or to mobilize the world on their behalf. They picked the third option, the lesser of all evils even from Israel's perspective. What could Israel say about this - that it's a unilateral step, as it and the United States have said? But it didn't agree to stop construction in the settlements, the mother of all unilateral steps. What did the Palestinians have left? The international arena. And if that won't save them, then another popular uprising in the territories.

The Palestinians in the West Bank, 3.5 million today, will not live without civil rights for another 42 years. We might as well get used to the fact that the world won't stand for it. Can Netanyahu or Shimon Peres explain why the Palestinians do not deserve their own state? Do they have even the slightest of arguments? Nothing. And why not now? We have already seen, especially of late, that time only reduces the possible alternatives in the region. So even that weak excuse is dead.

Yesterday, a coalition of Israeli peace organizations published a list of 50 reasons for Israel to support a Palestinian state. Assuming that you only accept five of them, isn't that enough? What exactly is the alternative, now that the heavens are closing in around us? Can anyone, can Peres or Netanyahu, seriously contend that the regional hostility toward us would not have lessened had the occupation already ended and a Palestinian state been established?

The truths are so basic, so banal, that it hurts even to repeat them. But, unfortunately, they're the only ones we have. And so, a simple question to whoever will be representing us at the UN next week: Why not, for heaven's sake? Why "no" once again? And to what will we say "yes"?

 

Barbara W. (342)
Tuesday September 20, 2011, 12:30 pm
There are too many fools running Israel and nations that protect fools must cease. . People of conscience can no longer be a party to this abuse towards innocence. http://www.care2.com/news/member/101960828/2951545
 

Barbara W. (342)
Tuesday September 20, 2011, 12:56 pm
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/cc4cb736-debf-11e0-a228-00144feabdc0.html#axzz1YWZA3pNp


Israel prevents Palestinians from free movement http://www.wral.com/business/story/10134507/
 

Barbara W. (342)
Tuesday September 20, 2011, 1:02 pm
"What could Israel have done? The Palestinian Authority, which has made concrete strides in the past five years at building the institutions and security forces of a state in the West Bank — making life there quieter than ever for Israel — finally said to itself: “Our state-building has not prompted Israel to halt settlements or engage in steps to separate, so all we’re doing is sustaining Israel’s occupation.

Let’s go to the U.N., get recognized as a state within the 1967 borders and fight Israel that way.” Once this was clear, Israel should have either put out its own peace plan or tried to shape the U.N. diplomacy with its own resolution that reaffirmed the right of both the Palestinian and the Jewish people to a state in historic Palestine and reignited negotiations. "
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/18/opinion/sunday/friedman-israel-adrift-at-sea-alone.html?_r=1
 

Barbara W. (342)
Tuesday September 20, 2011, 1:06 pm
Abbas’s Arab spring moment
http://blogs.ft.com/the-world/2011/09/abbass-arab-spring-moment/#axzz1YWaFrxNf
 

Scott Freewheeler (45)
Tuesday September 20, 2011, 1:11 pm
What a great article! It shows this total absurdity for what it is. I cannot wait to see how Israel and America handle this. I am busy right now but insha'Allah I shall come back to this thread later when I have time. Thank you very much for posting.

Brian who in their right mind would want anything but peace? What are the advantages to Palestine to be imprisoned, oppressed and slaughtered?
 

Stella AWAY W. (258)
Tuesday September 20, 2011, 1:41 pm
How very, very sad that the 'end' is not in sight yet!!
 

wooddragon xx (88)
Tuesday September 20, 2011, 1:57 pm
Cheers Abdessalam...

Peace will prevail....

Barbara's petition from her news: please note.
Recognize Palestine! Recognize Israel!
http://salsa.democracyinaction.org/o/525/p/dia/action/public/?action_KEY=7064
Thank You for Adding Your Name!
Your name has been added to the ranks of those calling for UN recognition of a Palestinian state and a lasting and just peace to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

Scott, only mad men/war profiteers do not want peace... too much money is made out of war and conflict... And there are sickos out there happy with seeing people imprisoned, oppressed and slaughtered.
 

wooddragon xx (88)
Tuesday September 20, 2011, 2:00 pm
Tweeted and FBed... And sorry out of stars...
 

Elias Ayad (49)
Tuesday September 20, 2011, 2:13 pm
Sending a Green Star is a simple way to say "Thank you"

You cannot currently send a star to Abdessalam because you have done so within the last week.
 

Elias Ayad (49)
Tuesday September 20, 2011, 2:40 pm
"The idea of Palestine becoming a permanent member of the United Nations originated, say Palestinians, with none other than US President Barack Obama.

Speaking at the UN General Assembly on September 23, 2010, Obama said that he hoped that "when we come back here next year, we can have an agreement that will lead to a new member of the United Nations – an independent, sovereign state of Palestine, living in peace with Israel."

Palestinians decided to take Obama at his word.

Obama’s efforts to rekindle the Middle East peace process began with Israel's refusal to carry out a temporary settlement freeze. The United States was even willing to offer a $3 billion arms deal to Israel in return for the suspension of building Jewish-only settlements in areas earmarked for the Palestinian state. But Israel’s prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, rejected the offer.

Nine months later, Obama made another effort to kick-start the talks. "The borders of Israel and Palestine should be based on the 1967 lines with mutually agreed swaps, so that secure and recognized borders are established for both states," he said in May.

Once again, Palestinians accepted Obama’s formula, while Netanyahu publicly rejected it, leaving Palestinians with no other nonviolent alternative but to go to the UN to seek a state based on the 1967 borders. In 1967, it should be recalled, Israel occupied the remainder of historic Palestine and other Arab territories following the June War.

Shortly after the war, the UN Security Council declared in the preamble to Resolution 242 that "it is inadmissible to occupy land by force."

This is not the first time that the UN has been called upon to arbitrate the intractable Middle East conflict; nor have only Palestinians approached. Back in 1947, when the UN General Assembly voted to partition the British Mandate of Palestine into a Jewish state and an Arab state, Jews of the British Mandatory state of Palestine danced in the streets of Tel Aviv.

Today, Israelis are rejecting recognition of Palestinian statehood on a much smaller territory than that assigned to Arabs by the original partition.

In more recent history, since 1991's Madrid Conference, direct talks between Israelis and Palestinians have taken place in various formats.

Palestinians made one compromise after another, hoping that partial agreements would lead to statehood. The 1993 Oslo accords set in motion a peace process that was supposed to last five years, with the end goal being an independent Palestinian state and a safe, secure and recognized Israel.

But the peace process exposed a permanent inability to agree on anything of real substance.

Worse, direct talks have not only failed to produce the desired results: their continuation has also helped to mask widespread construction of Israeli colonies on Palestinian territory.

Palestinian lands continue to be confiscated, Jewish-only settlements continue to be built, and Israel’s so-called “security wall” has strangled the Palestinians socially and economically.

The International Court of Justice at The Hague has ruled that the wall built inside Palestinian territory is illegal under international law, yet nothing has been done to enforce that ruling.

Mahmoud Abbas, the chairman of the PLO and president of the Palestinian Authority, who has vowed not to run for re-election, has chosen to take the path of UN recognition rather than continue with the charade of useless -- indeed, harmful -- direct talks.

And, clearly, that change in tactics has hit a raw nerve with Israelis and frustrated the US. Few Palestinians see anything wrong with the move, although many are not certain that it will produce much in the way of immediate and tangible results.

Nonetheless, the Palestinian public is pleased for now with a leadership that has found the backbone to stand up to pressure from Israel and the US. This will certainly help Abbas in the short term.

But if the UN move does not bear fruit within a reasonable time-frame, the public might turn against its political leaders -- as well as against the Israeli occupiers.

So what, exactly, is Abbas hoping to achieve?

The UN General Assembly, unlike the Security Council, cannot declare a state and the US has vowed to veto any Security Council resolution that recognizes Palestine's independence. But, if two-thirds of its members agree, the General Assembly can recognize Palestine as a state with observer status, similar to the Vatican. At that point, the international community would be obliged to begin acting against any party that was denying Palestine the right to behave as a fully functional and sovereign state.

Moreover, as a state (even with observer status), Palestine could seek legal relief from the International Court of Justice. It might also try, within the General Assembly, to invoke the rarely used United for Peace resolution. The last time it was invoked was against South Africa’s apartheid regime.

The Palestinian desire to obtain a UN vote on statehood, in whatever form, does not mean that they cannot have direct negotiations with Israel. Palestinian officials, including Abbas, have said that they see no reason why representatives of the newly recognized state cannot negotiate with representatives of Israel.

If the UN vote succeeds, however, it will not be a people talking with their occupiers, but two states negotiating about how to manage their relations in peace and harmony." -Daoud Kuttab

Daoud Kuttab, a former professor at Princeton University, is General Manager of the Community Media Network in Amman.
 

Elias Ayad (49)
Tuesday September 20, 2011, 2:42 pm
Sorry this is the link;
http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=421855

Shared and forwarded, Will cite your great post, dear Abdessalam, in my last post.
http://www.care2.com/news/member/206828990/2950648

Vote for peace.... Vote for Palestine

Viva Palestina
EA
 

Elias Ayad (49)
Tuesday September 20, 2011, 2:45 pm
Noted and signed... Thank you Barbara and Wooddragon!
 

Elias Ayad (49)
Tuesday September 20, 2011, 3:29 pm
A very thoughtful video, please watch;

Palestinian girl playing the most peautiful National Anthem music on hospital bed!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccDPx_cLq2c&feature=youtu.be

EA
 

Christine Linley (11)
Tuesday September 20, 2011, 3:43 pm
My father always told me that the mistakes from hasty tidying up after one war inverably led to the the next war.
Post WWII our mistake at creating Israel from the sacraficial offering up of a land that already belonged to a people and to which we had no moral rights to, and then not insisting upon the upholding of the punative precautionsthat were laid down to protect those displaced, disenfranchised people have cast a long shadow forward onto today's world stability and until Palastine is re granted it's right to exist and be treated by her neighbour with the respect an independant country deserves we have abandoned the untidy remanants of the last war to destroy the lives of many innocent people and to threaten the very security of world peace.
 

Abo r. (95)
Tuesday September 20, 2011, 4:30 pm
Thank you so much Abedessalam for posting this vital and very important issue and Thanks for you Elias for forwarding.
Falestinian state will exist on the Falestinian land no other way.
For sure the IDF doesnot want peace and resists the existence of Falestine state.
President Obama is courageous one in speach without practical action on the ground , he was so energic for peace existence just to get the PEACE PRIZ and he took it then what he did or said nothing as his mind is occupied by zionests and is dreaming for second time of presidency he wants the zionests and Jews votes in the comming election the question is he going to stand in front of the NATIONS REPRESENTATIVES in UN and remember his last year speach or will wear a black dark eyes glasses and raise his hand and voice to vito the existence of FALESTINIANB STAT by that DOES THE COMMITTEE WHICH DECIEDED TO GIVE HIM AND GAVE HIM THE PEACE PRIZE WILL WITHDRAW IT FROM HIM or WILL GIVE HIM THE WAR HERO PRIZ?

PUBLIC ALL OVER THE WORLD AND NATIONS REALIZED THE FACT AND TRUTH AND THEY DO NOT WANT ANY MORE VIOLENCE AND NO MORE WARS AS WHAT PRESIDENT SADAT SAID HE IS THE HERO OF PEACE ... THE EGYPTIAN BRAVE MAN .
GREAT BRITAIN MUST STAND AND SPEAK UP ASKING THE FALESTINANS AND ALL HUMANS TO FORGIVE THEM BECAUSE OF THIER MINISTER BELFOURE HISTORICAL MISTAKE OF PROMISSING THE GROUPS OF JEWS TO HAVE A STATE ON THE FALESTINIAN LAND UK OF TODAY NEED TO ASK FOR FORGIVNESS AND SAY YES FOR THE FALESTINIAN STATE IT IS OUR MISTAKE >>> AND MUST PUT PREASURE ON THE OTHER COUNTRIES TO LET THEM VOTE YES YES YES FOR FALESTINIANB STATE AND YES FOR PEACE IN THE ME.
ENOUGH FOR WARS AND VIOLENCE , NO FOR HATE AND YES FOR LOVE.
 

Jelica R. (159)
Tuesday September 20, 2011, 7:20 pm
Jewish Voice for Peace: Tell Clinton and Rice "It's Time."

Just Foreign Policy: Tell Washington: Don’t Veto Palestinian Independence!

Peace Happens Limited: Declare a Palestinian State - vote now

The Washington Report on Middle East Affairs: Urging President Obama to Support a Palestinian State in the U.N.

The US Campaign to End the Israeli Occupation: Don’t Set a Timetable on Another’s Freedom

Change.org: Don’t Set a Timetable on Another’s Freedom

J Street: Stand up for two states

Avaaz: 24 hours left -- Palestine: the world's next nation

AAPER: Support Palestinian Rights to Seek UN Recognition

NSP: Recognize Palestine! Recognize Israel!
 

Bob Algeron (47)
Tuesday September 20, 2011, 8:10 pm
Gideon Levy is high again. Otherwise, no one could write so much of a cheer nonsense!

Israel agreed to have a Palestinian Arab state, created on Israeli land. Israel disagrees that this Palestinian Arab state should be created as a rogue Islamist state with open war plans against Israel and genocidal plans about Jewish Israelis. If that state would have a chance to be moderate and peace-loving, Israel would beg Obama to let it be.

Creating Islamist state now means another war with Israel, and higher oil prices. I don't like these consequences and am glad that Canada among others will not have Arab-Israeli war victims blood on its hands.


 

Henriette Matthijssen (145)
Tuesday September 20, 2011, 8:12 pm
Israel is the bully of the middle east, backed by USA for control! No other logic, but just fools in failing to recognize/understand others desire & needs like their own. Praying God will grant Palestine their freedom from the jaws of evil. Thanks Abdessalam.
 

Bob Algeron (47)
Tuesday September 20, 2011, 8:13 pm
Jelica, you cater a nice pack of 10 petitions. Does everyone has to sign one, or all ten? If voices are counted separately, you should off posted like 100 links, then instead of a million signatures you would get 10 million. Who cares the check them anyway.

Good to see you up and ready for the action. Picture shows Israelis as Nazis, done well. You are in fact ready.
 

Mary P. (157)
Tuesday September 20, 2011, 10:04 pm
Thank you Abdessalam Inshallah there will be some progress towards freedom
Of the Palestinians from the Brutal Grip of the Evil Oppressive Zionist
Regime. As for Obama he should drown himself in a cup of water if he can,
He was a master of Deception at the beginning making false shouts of
Peace and Freedom of All human beings Yet today he shows his true
Colors to the People of the world, with his sic threat to Veto; its
Nothing more than a SHOW of Power. There is no humanity or compassion in the
Leadership of the Israeli and American Governments. They are open
Followers of the Evil Apartheid System. They believe in Oppression,
Theft of land and Massacres of human beings. They are followers of
Satan Period; Devoid of hearts and souls. Their time wil come to
Pay for their injustices in this world.
 

Mary P. (157)
Tuesday September 20, 2011, 10:13 pm
Bob, the Zionist Israeli Regime are Worse than the Nazis! They believe
In ' do worse on to others than what was done to us'. I am
Sure those people who are NOT blind will agree with my sentiments.
 

Sandra T. (126)
Tuesday September 20, 2011, 10:42 pm
"The Palestinians in the West Bank, 3.5 million today, will not live without civil rights for another 42 years. We might as well get used to the fact that the world won't stand for it."

Absolutely true, the world's eyes are now on Israel and US like never before, and the entire world is on the side of right in this case. If Palestinian Statehood passed through we could have instant peace in the entire Middle Eastern region. Wouldn't that just be so wonderful?!

Thanks for sharing this article, dear Abdessalam.
 

Sandra T. (126)
Tuesday September 20, 2011, 10:44 pm
Send a Green Star to Abdessalam Diab
Sending a Green Star is a simple way to say "Thank you"
You cannot currently send a star to Abdessalam because you have done so within the last week.
 

wooddragon xx (88)
Wednesday September 21, 2011, 3:49 am
Bob, how did you get here? Did someone leave your cage open?
 

wooddragon xx (88)
Wednesday September 21, 2011, 3:56 am
Thank you Jelica for the petitions... run out of stars, here is a smile:0) instead.
 

Michael MacDonald (27)
Wednesday September 21, 2011, 6:05 am
Stephen Harper here in Canada is doing everything he can to oppose their recognition and it sure is making me ashamed of my country right now. Sorry on behalf of all Canadians who aren't bigots like him
 

Christoffer Blomlöf (18)
Wednesday September 21, 2011, 6:12 am
Most palestinians don't want Israel to remain either, there will not be any peace as long as both sides hate the other side more than they love their children.
 

wooddragon xx (88)
Wednesday September 21, 2011, 6:29 am
Cheers Bob for your contribution on Gideon Levy...

"The Punishment of Gaza" written by Gideon Levy-Epilogue-07-25-2011
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXQFDbiZ75c
 

Abdessalam Diab (150)
Wednesday September 21, 2011, 6:32 am
This article has been promoted to First Page. Thanks to all those who contributed for the article ,who are fair and stand bravely on the side of the Palestinians in their endeavor for their statehood.
 

Abdessalam Diab (150)
Wednesday September 21, 2011, 6:40 am
Michael MacDonald
Thanks Mic for your comment.The greatest power on Earth so called USA is fighting harshly using the stick and carrot policy to persuade UNSC members to vote against or abstain the vote for the Palestinians statehood. This feverish hostile manoeuvre from USA reminded me with its situation opposing China membership in UN.At the end of the day it approved and so will it about a Palestinian state sooner or later. For the time being we will know who are the friends and who stand against the right of Palestinian Arabs.
 

Abdessalam Diab (150)
Wednesday September 21, 2011, 6:47 am
I have just finished reading this article in the Israeli newspaper Haaretz and wanted to share with you.Please enjoy reading :


U.S. should recognize Palestinian state

Just like 23 years ago, today too, Washington is standing like a fortified wall blocking the entry of Palestine to the United Nations.
By Zvi Bar'el


Memory is short and forgetfulness is often deliberate, but 23 years ago the UN General Assembly decided to move its session from New York to Switzerland so that Palestine Liberation Organization head Yasser Arafat could deliver a speech. The reason: U.S. Secretary of State George Schultz refused to issue Yasser Arafat an entry visa to the United States.

Today too, with the opening of the session of the General Assembly, Washington is standing like a fortified wall blocking the entry of Palestine to the UN building. Although Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas has no problem getting a visa, when he comes to ask for a state for the Palestinians he is put on a roller coaster. The list of threats and future punishments to be imposed on him and his country, if it is established, guarantees that this will be a state that is battered from birth.



Here is colonialism in all its glory. After all, the United States agrees that there should be a Palestinian state, it even twisted the arm of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu a little bit, cautiously so it wouldn't hurt, so that he would blurt out the necessary formula "two states for two peoples." U.S. President Barack Obama even spoke about the optimal borders of the Palestinian state and Abbas was not yet required to recognize Israel.

After all, Arafat already recognized it. Palestine fulfilled all the threshold conditions. And still, this state has only one chance of being born the American way. Through negotiations that will lead to a consensual agreement and a handshake. And if Israel's hand is missing, never mind, the Palestinians will wait until it grows.

But Abbas has learned a thing or two from Israel. The main lesson he has learned is that his real negotiations are not with Israel but with Washington. The second lesson: The negotiations must not take place on a playing field that is convenient for Obama, but rather at the United Nations. There Obama is not facing a beggarly Palestinian Authority that can be frightened with a shout, but 193 countries, each of which must be negotiated with.

New York is not Ramallah. Abbas saw how Israel chose its own playing field in the U.S. Congress, and carefully responded in kind. Instead of going out on a limb, he planted the tree by himself, nurtured it, diligently recruited most of the countries in the world, was helped substantially by Israel's mistakes, took good advantage of Jerusalem's isolation, examined the pros and cons and decided that even in loss there would be great gain.

If the United States casts a veto in the UN Security Council, it will cause more damage to Washington than to Abbas; if he makes do with recognition in the General Assembly, it will be in exchange for an American commitment to support a Palestinian state if negotiations fail, as they will.

Abbas caused Washington to be embroiled in a dispute with its European colleagues, and presented Israel as a cripple. He is forcing the United Nations to do what it usually fails to do: to find a peaceful solution to conflicts. As a bonus he caused Netanyahu to say that he is going to deliver a "speech of truth" at the United Nations, thereby admitting in effect that until now he has been lying.

The panic in Washington is genuine. It was evident when David Hale, Obama's special envoy, was unable to control his temper and simply shouted at Abbas when he understood that he had no intention of retreating from his initiative.

Anger and helplessness could also be detected in the voice of U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, when she announced that the United States would cast a veto in the Security Council. Suddenly she realized that the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is not only "the business of the parties involved" but threatens Washington's regional and international status.

If the United States fails to recognize the Palestinian state, it will have difficulty sidelining its rivals in the new Middle East, where the public has more power than the rulers; if it recognizes the Palestinian state, it will have to ensure its sustainability, in other words, to direct the sanctions against Israel. Truly a bad situation for a great power that aspires to draw the map of the new Middle East.

Had it only made an effort to achieve genuine negotiations when that was still possible, had it invested its efforts into reaching an agreement that it is now investing in preventing the declaration of independence, had it shared the threats equally between the PA and Israel, it may not have found itself in this difficult situation.

It should at least recognize the state now. It should recall what has happened since it refused to grant Arafat his visa.
 

Calle J. (70)
Wednesday September 21, 2011, 7:56 am

Salaam, Abdessalam Diab
Thank you for making great efforts to inform.
Today, world community celebrating World Peace Day.

What a great day, event and reason to be happy because for too long we have experienced all these endless wars all over the planet and specifically Israel's steadfast murdering aboriginals and attacking it's neighbors.

Israel must love war because for decades now as it sticks to killing the others by invented reasons for their wars and created "enemies" like no other government in the world...

(Diab, maybe this is the reason it distracts it's honest and peace loving people from it's 24-7 killing middle class home policy disasters?)

The whole world is celebrating today.
Except warmonger # 1...


Official Israel is not part of world's community.... ?

Poor victims of their own heartlessness!
 

John Gregoire (248)
Wednesday September 21, 2011, 8:24 am
So very true. Israel and the rest of the world should remember that Israel is a state born in terrorism (against the Brits) and given borders by the UN. I'm ashamed that my country will veto something so simple and necessary as Palestinian statehood. Israel should go back to its mandate borders, get all the settlements out of Palestinian territory and respect the Palestinian state as their neighbors in peace.

Look at this as if you were in their shoes here in the states and the neighbor started building a trailer park on your land. What would you do?????
 

Bob Algeron (47)
Wednesday September 21, 2011, 8:38 am
Mary P,. "the Zionist Israeli Regime are Worse than the Nazis! They believe
In ' do worse on to others than what was done to us'. "?

In what way exactly Israel is worse than Nazis? Do they kill ALL Arabs and their grandchildren? Didn't they give Arabs full human rights? Don't Arabs in Israel go to universities in the exact proportion of their population, something they CANNOT do in other ARAB countries? Did Israel performed ethnic cleansing of its lands, something that other ARAB countries did (Kuwait, Iraq)? Did Israel prohibit Arabs from buying lands, like other ARAB countries did to Palestinian Arabs (Lebanon, Syria)? Did Israel strip Arabs from citizenship, like other ARAB countries did to Palestinian Arabs (Jordan)?

No, Mary P, many ARAB countries are worse than Nazis when it comes to treatment of Palestinian Arabs, not Israel.

Evil Islamist regimes and many duped people thinking, that giving nothing to Palestinian Arabs and rejection their part for making the Arab-Israeli conflict will somehow justify their aggression against Israel and the result of it the story of Palestinian Arab refugees. It won't work, inshallah.

Arab regimes cowardly hiding over sufferings they cause to their brothers while blaming Israel will fall, and democracy will come at one day. At that day, the peace will come as well, inshallah.
 

Abdessalam Diab (150)
Wednesday September 21, 2011, 8:41 am
Thanks John. USA was the first country to acknowledge Israel which was created upon a decision from UN without negotiations with the other Party. When it comes to Palestine this is considered inappropriate and the Palestinian state must be declared through negotiations with a part ( the Zionist entity ) that is ready to start non endless negotiations just to give itself the opportunity to steal land and build settlements so that the Palestine state win;t find land for its people.Shame on America
 

Abdessalam Diab (150)
Wednesday September 21, 2011, 10:03 am
Bob
It seems that you are not aware of the crimes of Israel against the Palestinian occupied land including East Jerusalem. I invite you to read this UN document and see how criminal is your beloved Zionist entity.IT might be a chance for you and likes to accuse UNHRC of anti Semite. Enjoy
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Human Rights Council
Sixteenth session
Agenda item 7
Human rights situation in Palestine and other
occupied Arab territories




Resolution adopted by the Human Rights Council*

16/29
Human rights situation in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including East Jerusalem
The Human Rights Council,

Guided by the principles and objectives of the Charter of the United Nations, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the International Covenants on Human Rights,

Considering that the promotion of respect for the obligations arising from the Charter and other instruments and rules of international law is among the basic purposes and principles of the United Nations,

Affirming the responsibility of the international community to promote human rights and ensure respect for international law,

Acknowledging that peace, security, development and human rights are the pillars of the United Nations system,

Affirming the applicability of the fourth Geneva Convention relative to the protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War, of 12 August 1949, to the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including East Jerusalem,

Recalling the obligations of the High Contracting Parties to the Fourth Geneva Convention, and reaffirming that each High Contracting Party to the Fourth Geneva Convention is under the obligation to respect and ensure respect of their obligations arising from that Convention, in all circumstances,

Affirming the applicability of international human rights law to the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including East Jerusalem,

Emphasizing that international human rights law and international humanitarian law are complementary and mutually reinforcing,

Guided by the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination and the inadmissibility of the acquisition of land by the use of force, as enshrined in the Charter,

Reaffirming that all human rights are universal, indivisible, interdependent and interrelated,

Deeply concerned at the illegal actions by Israel undermining the sanctity and inviolability of religious sites in the occupied Palestinian territories, in particular in and around the holy city of Jerusalem,

Expressing serious concern at the lack of implementation by all parties to the conflict of the resolutions and recommendations of the Security Council, the General Assembly and the Human Rights Council relating to the situation of human rights in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including East Jerusalem,

Condemning all forms of violence against civilians by all the parties to the conflict, and deploring the loss of human lives in the context of the current situation,

Recognizing that the continuous Israeli military attacks and operations in the Occupied Palestinian Territory have caused severe violations of international humanitarian law and of the human rights of the Palestinian people therein, and undermine international efforts to achieve a just and lasting peace in the region based on the two-State solution,

Recognizing also that the continuous launching of rockets from the occupied Gaza Strip against civilians constitutes a severe violation of international humanitarian and human rights law and undermines international efforts to achieve a peace settlement,

Recognizing further that the Israeli siege imposed on the occupied Gaza Strip, including the closure of border crossings, constitutes collective punishment and leads to disastrous humanitarian, economic, social and environmental consequences,

1. Demands that the occupying Power, Israel, end its occupation of the Palestinian land occupied since 1967 and that it respect its commitments within the peace process towards the establishment of the independent sovereign Palestinian State, with East Jerusalem as its capital, living in peace and security with all its neighbours;

2. Strongly condemns the continuous Israeli military attacks and operations in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including its regular military incursions, and calls for their immediate cessation;

3. Condemns the indiscriminate rocket and mortar fire from the occupied Gaza Strip against civilians, and calls for their immediate cessation;

4. Demands that the occupying Power, Israel, stop the targeting of civilians and halt its administrative decisions and practices that directly or indirectly coerce Palestinian citizens to leave East Jerusalem, including evictions, demolitions, forced displacements, cancelation of residence permits and the systematic destruction of the cultural heritage of the Palestinian people, in addition to the destruction of public and private properties, as laid down in the Fourth Geneva Convention;

5. Condemns the disrespect of the religious and cultural rights provided for in core human rights instruments and humanitarian law by the occupying Power, Israel, in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including al-Haram al Ibrahimi in Hebron and Bilal Mosque (“Tomb of Rachel”) in Bethlehem and the walls of the old city of Jerusalem, which are on its list of national heritage sites;

6. Demands that Israel, the occupying Power, respect religious and cultural rights in the occupied Palestinian territories, particularly in occupied East Jerusalem, as provided for in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, the core international human rights instruments, the Hague Conventions and the Geneva Conventions, and that it allow Palestinian citizens and worshippers unhindered access to their properties and religious sites therein;

7. Expresses its grave concern at the excavation of ancient tombs and removal of hundreds of human remains from part of the historic Ma'man Allah (Mamila) Cemetery in the holy city of Jerusalem in order to construct a “museum of tolerance”, and calls upon the Government of Israel to immediately desist from such illegal activities therein;

8. Demands that Israel, the occupying Power, immediately cease all ongoing diggings and excavation work beneath and around the Al-Aqsa mosque compound and other religious sites in the old city of Jerusalem, and refrain from any act that may endanger the structure or foundations or change the nature of the holy sites, both Islamic and Christian, in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, particularly in and around Jerusalem;

9. Calls for immediate international protection for the Palestinian people in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, in compliance with international human rights and humanitarian law, applicable in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including East Jerusalem;

10. Demands that the occupying Power, Israel, take the necessary measures to ensure the respect of internationally recognized sports principles as enshrined in the Charter of the International Olympic Committee, particularly the free movement and circulation of Palestinian sports teams and athletes within the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including administrative staff, and in relation with the external world, and facilitate the access of internationally donated equipment and sports materials, and that it grant regional and international teams and sports figures unhindered access to the Occupied Palestinian Territory and desist from imposing illegal measures on the construction of sports facilities throughout the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including in East Jerusalem;

11. Also demands that the occupying Power, Israel, immediately stop its illegal decisions to demolish a large number of Palestinian houses in East Jerusalem, including in the neighbourhood area of Al-Bustan in Selwan, and the evacuation of Palestinian families in Al-Sheikh Jarrah and Beit Hanina areas of East Jerusalem, which is resulting in the displacement of a large number of resident Palestinians of East Jerusalem;

12. Further demands that the occupying Power, Israel, release Palestinian prisoners and detainees, including women, children and elected members of the Palestinian Legislative Council;

13. Calls upon the occupying Power, Israel, to lift checkpoints and open all crossing points and borders according to relevant international agreements;

14. Demands that Israel, the occupying Power, immediately lift the siege imposed on the occupied Gaza Strip and that it open all borders and crossing points and allow the free access of fuel, humanitarian needs and medicine in addition to all necessary materials and equipment for the reconstruction and rehabilitation of Gaza, as agreed upon at the International Conference in Support of the Palestinian Economy for the Reconstruction of Gaza, held in Sharm el-Sheikh, Egypt, on 2 March 2009;

15. Decides to continue the consideration of this question at its nineteenth session.


48th meeting
25 March 2011

[Adopted by a recorded vote of 30 to 1, with 15 abstentions. The voting was as follows:
In favour:
Angola, Argentina, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Brazil, Burkina Faso, Chile, China, Cuba, Djibouti, Ecuador, Gabon, Ghana, Jordan, Kyrgyzstan, Malaysia, Maldives, Mauritania, Mauritius, Mexico, Nigeria, Pakistan, Qatar, Russian Federation, Saudi Arabia, Senegal, Switzerland, Thailand, Uganda, Uruguay

Against:
United States of America

Abstaining:
Belgium, Cameroon, France, Guatemala, Hungary, Japan, Norway, Poland, Republic of Korea, Republic of Moldova, Slovakia, Spain, Ukraine, United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, Zambia]


_________
 

Dave C. (204)
Wednesday September 21, 2011, 12:08 pm
while I personally support a 2 state system....I would add that Hamas also has not recognized Israel yet either.....

The blame game must end and peace loving and wanting people on both sides need to be involved and in charge....responsibility is a 2 way street....
 

Roger M. (0)
Wednesday September 21, 2011, 12:49 pm
I think "Israel does not want a Palestinian state so America will make sure it doesn't happen. Period." would be nearer the mark.
 

Helle H. (21)
Wednesday September 21, 2011, 12:55 pm
Noted. The Jews should never have been allowed to grab more and more land than somebody already had stole to give to them. They weren' even born there and had no right to that land..
 

Roger Garin-michaud (60)
Wednesday September 21, 2011, 1:06 pm
indeed
 

Bob Algeron (47)
Wednesday September 21, 2011, 1:23 pm
The vast majority of Arabs, whose ancestors left Israel long time ago, and who are now living all over Middle East, EU and US, also weren't born in Palestine. They have no rights to The Land of Israel either.

Jews got less than a third of land, that was given to them before Palestinian Arab states Jordan and the new one - were created.

 

Bruce Van Tassell (7)
Wednesday September 21, 2011, 1:23 pm
Endless religious dribble Israel will not allow peace unless on their terms.
 

Tim Haines (6)
Wednesday September 21, 2011, 2:09 pm
If the Jews should have a homeland, why not the Palestinians? Come to think of it, this WAS their homeland until the Israelis pushed them out of it.
 

TERRANCE N. (65)
Wednesday September 21, 2011, 2:11 pm
I don't understand the logic of Israel needing to be recognized by the Palestinians. Israel is 60 years old. This recognition crap sound like BS. It's like the US telling Mexico it needs to recognize the US. This racist Netanyahu is the most sorriest individual since Hitler. At least Hitler didn't result in Germany being destroyed. Netanyahu has Israel as the most reviled country on earth.
 

. (0)
Wednesday September 21, 2011, 2:55 pm
The Palestinians need a country of their own. Fanatics on both sides will still fight and the innocent will still die, but they deserve a place where they rule themselves.
 

Bob Algeron (47)
Wednesday September 21, 2011, 3:39 pm
Tim, Arabs never owned that land - majority of them came to join Zionists at the end of nineteenth century.

Arabs already have 22 homelands, including Jorda - a homeland of exactly same Palestinian Arabs. Still, Israel agreed to give more of its land to Arabs to live separately, but not to a state which will do to war with Israel.
 

Allan Yorkowitz (461)
Wednesday September 21, 2011, 3:45 pm
For Terrance N: If you knew anything about history, we claimed Texas from Mexico....anyway, there has been a lot of discussion of this issue - yet it boils down to one point. Israel does not want another terrorist state on its borders. Why can't this be understood, and be acknowledged. Hamas will play a large role in the Palestinian state- they do not recognize Israel's existence, and if established, Israel will know no peace.
This article throws out statements such as "Israeli peace organizations expressed 50 reasons for a Palestinian State to exist". This is such leftist filler garbage, yet people actually believe it.
 

monka blanke (74)
Wednesday September 21, 2011, 3:49 pm
Signed and noted. Israel should give back the stolen land; we all know this. Free Palestine from the evil Zionists !! No more settlements.
 

Fred Krohn (34)
Wednesday September 21, 2011, 4:21 pm
The continued interference from the mujadeen - al-qaeda, al-aqsa, al-shaabaab, hamas, hezbollah, Islamic Jihad, Taliban, and Muslim Brotherhood - guarantees that no peace will come until such sub-human ilk are executed. The brotherly war situation in the Middle East is ancient, but it proves the legitimacy of all Arab residents except those mujadeen, along with the Israelis (who are themselves Arabic in origin) to the Middle East. Down with defective theocracies and feudal sharia states, up with the mathematical geniuses of real Arabia and the masters of universal education the Jews of Jerusalem!
 

Scott Freewheeler (45)
Wednesday September 21, 2011, 6:49 pm
One has to dig deep to understand the reasons why Israel does not want a Palestinian state. Please think about this; cui bono - who benefits from the continued aggravation of the Muslim world by these zionist policies which falsely claim to be Jewish? What is the benefit of creating enmity between the brotherhood of Jews and Muslims?

Applying for a UN seat as a state is such an inspired move! I have little respect for the UN personally as they seem to be mostly ineffectual and soft on 'certain' criminal states but also they seem to be fully supportive of this march towards the New World Order and world government and globalisation. Let us not forget it was a subcommittee of the UN (United Nations Special Committee on Palestine - UNSCOP) that conspired to create this zionist state through violent crusade in the first instance.

But for all the UN's sins, Palestine is absolutely correct to apply because no matter what the outcome, the light of public awareness is shining on these oppressed people who have been quietly subjected to an 'under the radar' destruction of their infrastructure, their economy, their country and their very lives.

The zionist owned mass media are going to have a hard time suppressing this event and the more one looks into the current situation and the history of what happened here the more preposterous this situation appears to get. When one tries to fathom the reason behind all this absurdity one is led into the realms where truth is certainly stranger than fiction but please, do look deeper because many lives depend upon it including your own.

I am in no doubt that the ultimate plan is to destroy as much of Islam and Judaism as possible. I know it sounds pretty crazy but then so is the fact that children are starving to death not ten hours away from me (by plane) when the Rothschild family have stolen more than half of the worlds wealth by printing money out of thin air and controlling the price of gold while making money from trading it! Truth is indeed stranger than fiction.

Whether or not one believes in the concept of God and his adversary is not important in considering what I shall explain here; what is important is that you know that the Rothschilds and the other twelve families certainly do believe, but not in the same way as the monotheists. They believe in binary gods of equal power but they are not on the side of God, as a fairly clear by their despicable greed and their many crimes which include initiating and funding the first two World Wars. The relevance with this particular thread is that they and their fellow 'Crazies' are busy preparing Israel to initiate the Third WW and if there is peace with the Muslims and they are forgiven, their plans may fail.

If someone has an alternative explanation for this continued assault on Judaism and Islam and the creation of Israel and its arming (thanks in part to US tax dollars) to the point of being the 4th largest military superpower in the world in the last eighty years I would be very glad to hear it. I am more than a little concerned about this but not enough so that I would prefer to bury my head in the sand. As much as I would prefer to believe that it is not really happening, the 'normalcy bias' that I and all of us are subject to is outweighed by my observations of the overwhelming evidence to support this truth. Albert Pike even wrote exactly this in a letter to his Freemason chums in Italy 1871 (see links below).

The numerous current wars and occupations (I count seven) are all without any good reason. There is so much evidence of the lies of the western media and the politicians who are clearly in collusion that they have lost all credibility with me. I am inclined to believing the independent news which generally provide good evidence to the contrary.

'The Crazies' is the name given to the people who pull the strings of the puppet press and politicians by these puppets themselves. They are way beyond Rumsfeld, Cheney and Gergen. These are people you will rarely, if ever get to see; just as in a puppet show you are not supposed to see the puppeteer. They call them the Crazies because most of their collaborators (who are bribed, blackmailed or otherwise manipulated) do not understand their goals which among other things are to get us all to submit to them and to have an 'all seeing eye' over us like gods using technology and to dramatically reduce our numbers through poisons, diseases and wars. It even goes deeper than a power trip but for now I will stay with the evidence.

This is where it gets into the realms of the totally surreal but please bear with me, ponder and research what I am saying; the Crazies believe that Lucifer is guiding them towards a single one world communist dictatorship where everyone will be given the RFID microchip implants (that are currently voluntary unless you are in the US military) so that all commerce and everyone's movements and associations will be monitored by 'The Beast' which is the massive supercomputer housed in Belgium as well as a name given to the Biblical antichrist.

This is an advert by IBM about the implant to prove that the chip is real and that it can 'conveniently' ease you shopping experience at the checkout in exchange for total lack of privacy and possibly your eternal soul!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pe7X5biFdM&feature=related

If you cannot believe that the Holy Bible predicted this very occurrence in Revelations 13:16-18 two thousand years ago then you must conclude that these Crazies are mimicking this 'End of Days' prophecy; in either case you should be very concerned. Here is that prophesy;

"And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in [inside] their right hand, or in [inside] their foreheads*: And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six [666].

*The reason I have added '[inside]' is because in the original language, the word 'in' is poorly translated; it actually means 'right inside'. In any case, something 'IN your forehead' cannot be misunderstood - this means under the skin or inside the scull. Please think of how one would describe this RFID implant in ancient Aramaic; it certainly leaves a scar as you can see by the people who have it already. I think a 'mark that is an electronic debit card, under the skin which contains the number 666' ticks all the boxes.

This chip may look convenient in the several adverts and it is true that it offers some advantages but please, even if you are not religious or superstitious of the 666 prefix (as seen in every bar code on the centre and the edges) or the world supercomputer (The Beast), at least consider the abuse of absolute power if one man controls the world and all who are in it though these chips. If you don't like what they are doing you have no way of protesting or they will just flick a switch and your chip is turned off and you cannot buy or sell anything. It is an Orwellian dream (nightmare) come true.

Proof of barcodes all having the prefix 666 - please watch this and then check in your cupboards to see it is true;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRQQe1SRDNE

The 666 cult found in corporate logos everywhere;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Q1Vsa-cjy0&feature=related


When you learn to recognise the secret sigil method satanists use to communicate and subconsciously imprint their foul doctrine upon us you can see it everywhere. These include of course the number 666 which can be seen subtly in the logos of the trilateral Commission and Vodafone, Coco Cola, Walt Disney's signature, Lucious and the UK national lottery to name but a few.

Numerology is big in Satanism and another symbolic number is that of the antichrist himself; the number 11. It is no coincidence that the events of the WTC (literally a huge number 11 themselves) on 9/11 (9+1+1=11) (incidentally it was 911 days after 9/11 that the Madrid bombings took place). Have a look at all the incidences in our 'popular culture';

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1aifunETmU

The Great Pyramid and Eye of Horus (as seen on the one dollar bill and on many other corporate logo's such as AOL) is another common sigil. Horus is the Babylonian god of the rising sun and this sunrise and sun symbol is very common. The pentagram or five pointed star can be seen everywhere on many of the worlds armed forces and arms dealers, our money and buildings.

The Dajjal (antichrist) is one eyed (symbolising the illunimati is my guess); there are several Islamic texts that describe it in this way and many of the pop stars revere and mimic in homage to their one eyed master by covering one of their eyes with masks or their hand when performing. Another thing they do is make the circle of Ouroboros (the serpent eating its own tail) over one eye.

The satanic Corna hand signal (forefinger and little finger extended to make devil horns and the thumb to signify the unholy trinity of Satan, the antichrist and the false prophet) is popular amongst heavy metal bands and their followers, Satan worshipers as well as presidents, prime ministers and their wives! Tom Ridge (FBI director) was also photographed making this sign on both hands as well as Dan Quale (Vice President) and dozens more of the men in seats of Earthly power.

I recommend having a look at some of these on YouTube if you are in any doubt that Satanism is more popular than ever especially throughout the moneyed corporations and influential societies and institutions.

You can even see a giant pyramid with an all-seeing eye of Horus built into the Israeli Supreme Court Building in Jerusalem;

http://www.gnosticliberationfront.com/rothschild__the_israeli_supreme.htm

Satanism and Freemasonry have long been indistinguishable in their aims and ideals, goals and symbolisms. That is not to say that all Freemasons are aware of this; only the last three degrees 30-33 are told that they worship Lucifer. The lower degrees are "intentionally misled by false interpretations" Albert Pike 'Morals and Dogma' P819.

If anyone doubts that Fremasons knowingly and otherwise, worship Lucifer (Satan) please allow me to prove it beyond any doubt with quotes from several of their own mouths (33 degree masons).

Albert Pike's 3 World Wars;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m581aW5AH4M&feature=related

For a wonderfully detailed version with far more evidence about the true motives and history of these Crazies please watch this series on the Khazar Empire, the Illuminati and the New World Order;

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/esp_sociopol_khazar08.htm

It is heartening to know that only a tiny percentage of our wonderfully varied cultures and faiths actually are responsible for almost all the evil and suffering in geopolitics. All we need to do is recognise them and entirely shun them and we will have a heaven even while on earth. We will still have the physical challenges of life within these mortal bodies but we will have the loving support of each other and with that we can cope with those easily enough.

PS. Looking forward to Netanyahu's "speech of truth"; it will make a change to hear truth from him! Call me a sceptic if you like but if this speech is the truth I will eat my hat. Still, it was nice of him to in effect, admit to lying to us before.
 

Ronald N. (3)
Wednesday September 21, 2011, 7:45 pm
Yesterday, I listened to President Obama's speech concerning Palestinian statehood. The world is faced with something unheard of in the history of "powers that be", in the United States. It's so bad that even in the last meeting we saw P.M. Netanyahu correcting President Obama. I believe the US is the dog and the tail is Israel and the "tail is wagging the dog". Nothing will make me believe by the way Obama spoke so much with preferential treatment toward Israel, that any good will happen in the direction of Palestinian statehood. Until the politics changes in the United States will alwaysl be puppets of the Israeli government.

We see today those intellectual Jews at the top of their class, rejected, looked down upon and even denied tenure in their university because they have become outcasts. It is that the right wing Jewish leadership will not be moved, even by the liberal Jewish establishment. The "right wing" Jewish establishment, of course are the ones who have the real power in America. They are the movers and the shakers that support the present Israeli government. As I heard the Professor Finkekstein and Attorney Alan Dershowitz battle it out, we truly can see how divided the Jewish Americans have become. Truly, we are seeing a disintegration of morality. Nothing will change, if we see continual infighting. There has to trust put back into the process, and the fighting has to stop!

Haaretz is very informative. It is something we all need to read to understand the Israel/Palestinian issues. I am sure the same battles exist in Israel. Thanks Abdessalam for the post.
 

Tim Haines (6)
Wednesday September 21, 2011, 8:26 pm
Bob - The Palestinians ancestors had lived in the region for centuries, I think that gives them rights of ownership. The Jews of Israel are not native to the region as a race, but are largely Khazars, coming from the region to the north of the Caspian and Black seas. Racially they are foriegn invaders who have displaced the native population. To say that 'Arabs' have 22 homelands and so Palestinians don't have a right to Palestine is as daft as saying that the French don't have a right to France because 'Europeans' have 26 other 'homelands' in the EU. 'Israel agreed to give more of its land to Arabs to live peacefully'??!!! When did you last look at a map? Israel continues to steal the little land which the Palestinians have remaining in an attempt to impose its own one-state solution, which involves the genocide of the Palestinians.
 

Gary A L. (129)
Wednesday September 21, 2011, 9:27 pm
thanks to all very interesting peace should be the goal and not at the end of a gun bought and paid for by america
 

patrica and edw jones (190)
Wednesday September 21, 2011, 9:39 pm
Silly contentious drawing - and the same silly contentious comments. When will you people stop and think before letting your mouths rule any commonsense you might have. This constant following the herd mentality will only allow you to continually chase your tails. As Bob A said - Palestine never was a state. That is not to say there could never be one - IF ONLY THEY HAD A GOVERNMENT THAT WAS READY TO SHARE WITH ISRAEL AND ACKNOWLEDGE THE RIGHT OF ISRAEL TO BEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!! Tim why do you keep dredging up ancient history - most countries in the world do not have indigenous people and have been settled by outlanders. Israel has so little land - yet the Arabs have huge areas - mostly doing nothing. So why not give a bit to the Palestinians? I will tell you why they won't ......NOBODY wants them!!
 

patrica and edw jones (190)
Wednesday September 21, 2011, 9:47 pm
Peace can never be a certainty for Israel no matter how hard it tries to hold peace talks - because the Arab states simply do not want ISRAEL IN THEIR MIDST. THIS HAS BEEN PROVEN TIME AND AGAIN BY THE NUMBER OF WARS THE ARAB STATES HAVE STARTED TO TRY TO ANIHILATE ISRAEL.
 

Ken D. (32)
Wednesday September 21, 2011, 10:08 pm
I= indecent, ignorant, imposters

S= savage, sinful, squatters

R= right-abusing robbers

A= arrogant, ambitious aggressors

E= envious, evil enemy of all man kind

L= lying, lewd, lustful, lazy, leeches
 

Jesica De Beer (2)
Wednesday September 21, 2011, 10:14 pm
I agree with Bob Algeron and Patricia Jones
 

Ken D. (32)
Wednesday September 21, 2011, 10:47 pm
There's none so blind as those who WILL NOT SEE. . .
 

Parvez Zuberi (7)
Wednesday September 21, 2011, 10:51 pm
Not surprised at all this was expected from USA and their allies Israel wants to take over what ever is left a place called by name of Palestine and make it's people living their as slave with the support of Americans the champions of Human Rights and supporter of humanity . If these Idiot Middle East leaders have some brains left then they should in block leave UNO and Muslims countries should form their own United Muslim Nation
 

patrica and edw jones (190)
Wednesday September 21, 2011, 10:56 pm
Better get your eyes tested then Ken.
 

Ken D. (32)
Wednesday September 21, 2011, 11:13 pm
I can see through you and your ilk don't you worry about that.
 

Kathy Javens (104)
Thursday September 22, 2011, 7:44 am
Noted. Great article. This is a very sad situation. And it has been so for many, many years. How can peace be achieved through war? How can peace be achieved through complacency? It cannot. Peace can only be achieved by opening your minds , hearts and the lines of communication. Real communication. Not at the end of a gun. I will continue to pray for peace for them.
 

Abdessalam Diab (150)
Thursday September 22, 2011, 8:34 am
Yesterday I lost some time listining to Obama.He was the giggest Zionist I have ever heared.Twisting facts,blaming Palestinians and the Zionist entity neigbors for not achieving a peaceful settlement. HE WAS ZIONIST MORE THAN NETANYAHU. I discovered today that I wasn't the only person who found a Zionist US preisent. AFP the famouse French News Agency had the same feeling.Would you like to see by yourselves AFP comments ? You are welcome to read its coverage of the Israeli press and views about Obama speach. Please enjoy but notice that the title is not mine . It is AFP title :

..

Israeli press wary over Obama's 'Zionist' UN speech
=======================================
AFP – 2 hrs 20 mins ago...


Israeli newspapers were unanimous on Thursday in characterising US President Barack Obama's UN speech as hugely supportive of Israel, but some argued it was perhaps too much of a good thing.

"The American embrace" was the front-page headline of the Maariv daily, while the top-selling Yediot Aharonot took a similar line, summing up the impact of Obama's remarks for Israel and the Palestinians as "The hug and the snub."

"Obama not only adopted all of the Israeli arguments against recognising a Palestinian state by means of the UN, he adopted the basic Israeli narrative," Yediot said.

"It is no wonder that Abu Mazen, who sat in the auditorium during the speech, hung his head in his hands in disbelief and despair," it said, using the nom-de-guerre of Palestinian president Mahmud Abbas.

Most papers made veiled reference to next year's US presidential elections as a major factor in determining the tone and content of Obama's address.

The right-leaning Jerusalem Post reprinted large chunks of his speech and, in a commentary entitled "Obama tells Israelis what they've been waiting to hear," said it contained "a dose of empathy and understanding" which had been missing from his previous addresses.

"That is not an insignificant message," the paper said.

In his speech to the General Assembly, Obama reiterated his opposition to the Palestinians' attempt to win UN membership for their state, saying there was no "shortcut" to peace.

"Peace will not come through statements and resolutions at the UN -- if it were that easy, it would have been accomplished by now," he said.

The address included references to Israel's hostile neighbours, to suicide bombs on its buses and to the trauma of the Holocaust -- but made no mention of its settlement building on land the Palestinians want for a future state.

Openly delighted with the speech was Israel's hardline Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman, who told the Haaretz newspaper the address was "the best he has ever delivered."

"This speech told the Palestinians that there is no shortcut," he said. "I hope it will convince them to come back to reality and to resume peace negotiations."

But Yediot columnist Eitan Haber cautioned that there would be a price for Israel to pay further down the line.

"The Zionist turns of phrase that were uttered yesterday have a price tag affixed to them, and payment will be due -- if not tomorrow, then on the day after," he wrote.

"The United States has not changed the principles of its policy since 1967, and there was one thing that could have been understood from the president?s speech even though it wasn?t said -- just you wait, your day of reckoning will come."

Haaretz took a much dimmer view of Obama's UN address, with columnist Akiva Eldar slamming the president's "passivity" and his "graceless courting of the Israeli government."

"Speeches like those presidential candidate Obama gave on Wednesday will not advance peace one iota," he wrote.

"Worse yet, Obama's passivity could pave the way to a (Palestinian) civil uprising against Israel and its American patron, and/or lead to the loss of the Palestinian partner to the two-state solution."
..
 

Bob Algeron (47)
Thursday September 22, 2011, 8:41 am
P{arvez: " If these Idiot Middle East leaders have some brains left then they should in block leave UNO and Muslims countries should form their own United Muslim Nation" - an interesting idea.

United Muslim Nation could then talk to United Nation in one voice.
 

Bob Algeron (47)
Thursday September 22, 2011, 8:45 am
Abdessalam, there is no shortcut to peace, you have to admit it. Somebody has to decide what to do with Palestinian Arab refugees and with territorial disputes.

Showing off the strength of the Islamic bloc in UN and pushing off all the signed agreements won't play well with those with whom those agreements were signed. Palestinians are betting that Arab and Islamic blocs in UN will be stronger than US-Europe. Let's see who in fact wins.
 

Ken D. (32)
Thursday September 22, 2011, 8:56 am
Get back up your tree and talk hogwash to your animal friends.
 

Ronald N. (3)
Thursday September 22, 2011, 3:09 pm
I couldn't sleep much after the Troy Davis controversy, so I stayed up late listening to the Prime Minister of Turkey, Erdogan. He was on the PBS show and talked about the Palestinian issue. As Turkey is a part of a nation that is modernizing, being a part of NATO and an ally of the US. I found PM Erdogan quite in touch with the attitudes of much of the Western world. He said Israel is like a spoiled child. The Israeli government will allow the settlers to take more land, and while complaining, continuing to take more land. Much of the terrorist acts against Israel happened was an act of desperation. These things do occur and Westerners must understand that a person cornered and deprived, let alone blocked from the outside world will go to desperate measures to get attention. It is as if the Israeli's don't kill to achieve their needs. That is what Erdogan was talking about. The American sensibilities have been altered from any compassion, by some sort of bad press or propaganda.. I am not saying that strapping on a bomb and blowing yourself up along with a crowd of Jewish people is right. I am saying these acts of desperation aren't being paid attention to, by Americans, the way it was intended. But when one compares what is occurring in the West Bank of the Gaza Strip, there is never any anger expressed in the media by the people of the United States. The anger of the Israelis are fully exposed by the press when the Israeli government wants it, against Palestinians, but the truth is, the uses of power and weaponry cannot be matched by the Hamas military forces when war is waged against them. This is where the real killing and carnage takes place that only makes the actions by Hamas look tiny in comparison. The real point of this issue is the Palestinians aren't given rights as human beings. If the Israeli government allows the humanitarian aid into the Gaza, they can allow it. They can even inspect the aid to see if there are any weapons within the packages. The reality is they will complain for a number of reason why these things can't be done. It is as if the world has gone mad. But then again, the United States is going through a shift towards a tyrannical system, not unlike Israel. This is a way for Israel to get what it wants, regardless of the favoritism given to Israel. This is what America wants, because they think Israel is the security for the United States in the Middle East.
 

Carol Dreeszen (368)
Thursday September 22, 2011, 3:22 pm
There's none so blind as those who WILL NOT SEE. . .

I always say...it takes one to know one!

Anyone who thinks Palestine will become the peaceful little country they think once they have striped Israel of everything is living in a pipe dream! Does Hamas mean anything to any of you!? Maybe terrorists!? Maybe Palestinian Hamas terrorists....have you ever know terrorists to tell the truth!? And you believe this crock of crap now!? They are terrorists...they do not nor will not stop until they have destroyed Israel!! Not NO but HELL NO Palestine don't need to become a member of the UN or be a state which is basically a group of terrorist nations anyway...so with that said they actually would fit right in with them...but there is no sense and then common sense that tells me they can't be trusted!! And look who is pushing the agenda! Our fearless leader Obama....have any of you noticed the state of our country lately and he is the one leading and you are going to trust that worthless so and so to lead us into negotiating with/for a terrorist nation!? Yikes!!!!
 

Carol Dreeszen (368)
Thursday September 22, 2011, 3:25 pm
Much of the terrorist acts against Israel happened was an act of desperation.

BS...How desperate does a person have to be to stab, and slit the throats of women and CHILDREN as in a BABY!?!? That is a really LAME excuse! And if that is the case then every other nation that is desperate should start the same thing the Palestinians do!?!? Would that make it right then!? Phooey!!
 

Past Member (0)
Friday September 23, 2011, 2:03 am
Care2 seems to have eaten my post, so here it is again: (It's pretty long so I hope it doesn't just show up twice tomorrow)

Hi everyone :)

I got so caught up in another discussion that I didn't notice this one. Here is the central problem with the article, and this one is pervasive throughout liberal "intelligentsia" and those who take cues from them:

The article said, "And it doesn't have a single persuasive argument against the establishment and the international recognition of such a state" and "The truths are so basic, so banal, that it hurts even to repeat them". The unstated truth, so generally expected that it is not repeated here, is that the lines meant "Gideon Levy doesn't know a single persuasive argument ..." and "Gideon Levy's beliefs are so basic". That omission totally changes the meaning of the phrases and by it, the author claims an expert authority on the subject which he does not have. The image of the bumbling professor who in one breath claims to be an expert on a subject and demonstrates that he is not one has become a caricature of liberals, and for good reason.

The sad fact is that what I believe to be the true underlying problem in the peace process seems so enormous and intractable that, if I were the Israeli PM, I would try to blame the Palestinian leader rather than explain it publicly. This knowledge could demoralize supporters of peace and set back the process more than would blaming the Palestinian leader while hoping the issue would go away on its own.

Levy asked, "Can anyone, can Peres or Netanyahu, seriously contend that the regional hostility toward us would not have lessened had the occupation already ended and a Palestinian state been established?" Yes. Here is why, and this is also my belief regarding the underlying problem of the peace process. It will seem tangential and strange at first, but if you read it through then the connection should be obvious:

On another thread, somebody asked whether there are there any indigenous people in the world who continuously ruled their traditional homeland from time immemorial. The Arabian Peninsula was never conquered. All of the old empires from Babylon to Byzantium avoided it, having no interest in a desert full of violent tribes that borders, on the other side, only on water to which they already had access. Even the Ottomans were successors to the Caliphate which came from the peninsula. The Mandates were agreements in which the Mandatory Powers held authority only on behalf of the locals. Then as the Caliphate spread from the peninsula, it assimilated rather than conquer, and while the distinction seems like hair-splitting, it is central.

First, let us consider what came before conquest. In the Arabian Peninsula before Mohammed, wars were prolonged periods of mutual raiding, ending only when one side annihilated the other. In the Bible, the Hebrews committed genocide repeatedly, against the Mideanites and the Amalekites. With no established tradition of establishing peace, the only way a victor could trust that the war was over was when the defeated side was dead. Genocide was the only means of ending war. Fortunately, genocide also does not expand populations so nations which could only trust a war to end like that never grew terribly powerful.

In the imperial model, as practiced by every empire from Babylon to Rome, to its cultural descendants (Europeans and their cultural descendants), among the Warring States of China and others, one nation defeats another one's army and offers a deal: "If you disband you armed forces, do not raise more, obey our political leaders and pay us taxes, we will also lay down arms against you." This is one-sided and not nearly as friendly as we usually like to imagine peace treaties to be, but it was a treaty by which war ended and a conflict was declared resolved by both sides. They conquered through peace treaties. Generally, the conquering empire demanded no changes of culture as such terms were deemed unacceptable so they faced a failure to accept the treaty (continued war), or a failure to uphold it (rebellion) when they did. The peoples whom they conquered learned to accept and abide by those treaties, or the conquering empire demonstrated a willingness, through massacre, to fall back upon the earlier method, genocide, which could be trusted to work no matter what. Rome was well-known for doing this and the tradition was maintained through European conventions of war, arguably reaching into the Armenian Genocide. The surviving cultures then all had extensive brutal experience with accepting and abiding by peace treaties.

The Caliphate worked differently. Muhammad found a way around genocide which Arabs could trust: He redefined the tribe as one of religion rather than blood. Then he allowed the defeated side to convert rather than die. The defeated nation was annihilated without killing the individuals of it as they simply joined the winning side. This is how Islam was "The Religion of Peace". There was an agreement, "Convert or die" to establish peace with the defeated individuals, not with the defeated nation. I know it seems odd that people living in what were conquered lands, Babylon, Persia, Egypt, etc. have only this new tradition, but the forced assimilation turned them into cultural descendants of Arabs of the peninsula and not of the preexisting nations.

The two sides have traditions of fundamentally incompatible approaches to ending wars. The Israeli (or Western) approach, the imperial model, considers forced assimilation to be absolutely unacceptable. The Caliphate's model demands it and trusts nothing less. I know that Palestinians want a nice modern peace treaty, one achieved without a clear and immediate threat of massacre, but the history and culture are not behind it. Consider how difficult such treaties are to negotiate even among peoples with a long history of them. What are the Palestinians' chances?

This theory seems entirely historical and abstract, but the take-home message is this: The negotiations will fail until either Israel becomes Islamic or Palestinians are fundamentally Westernized. With or without a state, today's Palestinians will almost certainly not trust Israel to refrain from reconquering them as long as it is Jewish.

The theoretically attractive aspect of this theory of peace and surrender being learned through imperial conquest is that it makes many separate predictions which have borne out. These range from the nature of African civil wars to much of the history of democracy and aspects of Chinese civil society.

If you want more information, just let me know.
 

Past Member (0)
Friday September 23, 2011, 2:05 am
As a side-note, I suspect Mohammed never trusted the imperial model of conflict-resolution, which would make sense given experience with Arabs who didn't have the intent to keep fighting beaten out of them as Rome (and predecessors and successors) did to other peoples. As Jews were known to submit without converting, I suspect he believed Jews would eventually turn against Muslims, so his anti-Jewish positions were a matter of "getting them back first". I know about anti-Judaism in the Koran, but believe it to have been a seemingly reasonable reaction to a matter falsely perceived as one of self-preservation, not just unreasoning hatred. The Caliphs apparently settled on making the submission public so that they would know when Jews ceased to submit, to get warning before they were ready to rebel. (The expected rebellion never happened, as far as I know.)
 

patrica and edw jones (190)
Friday September 23, 2011, 2:53 am
Great posts from Stephen, Dave C, Carol, Bob A........so good to know that Israel has supporters like your selves..... helps to mute the acid from the other crowd.
 

tara lav (31)
Friday September 23, 2011, 3:50 am
Israel supports a Palestinian state, but they need certain security requirements dealt with. Most of all, they need a partner for peace, one who will actually negotiate. Abbas very clearly does NOT want to negotiate with Israel, maybe because he does not want to accept a Jewish state?
 

Abdessalam Diab (150)
Friday September 23, 2011, 6:14 am
It was not only AFP that described Obama's speech as a Zionist speech.Others also did analysed and revealed the reasons behind the speech. This is an other article about that speech. Please read:


This was serendipity for Barack Obama, who got caught with his pants at his knees by the sudden squall over Palestinian statehood. The president, who works hard to keep his indifference to Israeli survival under wraps, spent the week trying to keep the question of Palestinian statehood from coming to a vote in the Security Council, where it would probably succeed and he would have to order an American veto.

The veto might reassure American Jewish voters who finally recognize their Obama love as unrequited, but a veto would enrage the Muslims in the Middle East whom the president has courted with passion and apologies over the first three years of his presidency. In the event, he didn't have to order the veto and he got to make a speech. He spread the usual jelly of moral equivalency, hectoring in equal measure both Jew and Muslim to restrain themselves, and get back to the table to process peace. Alas, processed peace, like processed cheese, is neither peace nor cheese.

The Palestinian statehood frenzy, as anyone can see, is not really about Palestine but about the presidential politics of 2012. The White House has been in a panic since the Republicans captured that House seat in a heavily Jewish district in Brooklyn and Queens, which had been held by a Democrat since the Coolidge era. That result turned on the question of whether Barack Obama or the Republicans were the truest and bluest friends of Israel. Suddenly the Jewish vote was in play. Losing only a fraction of it would spell Democratic disaster in Florida, Ohio and Pennsylvania, where the president is already hip-deep in alligators.

The president has been making goo-goo eyes at the Palestinians, casting himself in the role of faithless lover. He knows all the honeyed words, he has the diamond bracelet in hand, and he’s confident he can spread enough kosher goo to keep hope alive. But the abused Jewish voter has the motel receipt found in his coat pocket. A guilty lover’s lot is not always a happy one.

Wesley Pruden is editor emeritus of The Washington Times.
 

Past Member (0)
Friday September 23, 2011, 8:00 am
Hi Abdessalam,

The Washington Post article does not depict Obama as Zionist. It depicts him as seeking the Jewish vote (though I strongly suspect he either wants the vote of American Christians who support Israel or to get them to stay home on election-day, reducing the Republican vote, as those votes are far more numerous). It does say the reasoning behind it is Americans' support for Israel and how it will manifest in the next election, but does not support what you said about Obama.
 

Bob Algeron (47)
Friday September 23, 2011, 8:03 am
Stephen, a great post, it made me wanting to read it despite its length! Great analysis!

 

Bob Algeron (47)
Friday September 23, 2011, 8:17 am
Obama's speech and especially his veto show to the Islamic bloc that US cannot be completely ignored and sidelined for now. The outreach approach taken by Obama has its limits and does not make him clueless. The outreach will not allow pan-Islamism to continue unabated under Turkish and Iranian command.

Palestinian bid to cancel all the signed agreements and sideline US and Quarter was an action to delegate the status of the US and quartet to rich suckers, which can safely be ignored utilizing the votes of Islamic bloc and dictatorships in UN, while paying billions of its dues in the form on US Aid.

If Obama let it go, it would mean that Iran and Turkey, who charged Abbas for that mission, are making the shots, while Obama is now hiding away and backing up in the face of anti-American majority in UN.

That was the question, and this is why Obama reacted.
 

Abdessalam Diab (150)
Friday September 23, 2011, 10:37 am
Carol Dreeszen
Your philosophy as stated in your profile on Care2 is :
We reap what we sow..if we sow love we reap love, if we sow hatred we reap hatred. We get out of life what we put into it and the biggest appreciation of life is life itself!
When Zionism comes to Palestine in the 20 century pretending that Zionist has a divine right and start driving its original people ( the Falasinians both Christians and Muslims) from their homes,property and land and continue its genocide cleansing ,humiliation,occupation,land theft and daily harassments bulldozing their homes,killing their children,uprooting their olive trees which they grew a long time ago,This is certainly hatred not love.According to your philosophy Zionists in return sow hatred.
The Palestinians, whether they belong to Hamas or any other group are not terrorists. They are FREEDOM FIGHTERS who defend their homes,their land,their farms,their families and their children from this fascist ,Zionist attack.The Palestinians didn't occupy Zionist land.Zionist did and it is the right and duty of Palestinians to resist the newly comers Zionists,occupiers. This is their right and it is exactly the philosophy you adopt. Zionists sow killing and hatred and they reap what they sow.
 

Abdessalam Diab (150)
Friday September 23, 2011, 11:03 am
Bob
Please don't twist the facts :
1 - Iran has nothing to do with the Palestinian bid to UN for a Palestinian statehood.Iran will vote in favor of this bid as many other countries will in the general assembly.
2 - This bid had been decided upon a long time ago when Israel and turkey were spending their honey moon some where deciding upon their military cooperation before the stupidity of Lieberman and Netanyahu put an end to that honey moon months ago when the Israeli pirates attacked a Turkish aid ship in the international waters, something that will be submitted to the International court in The Hague soon.Turkey will certainly vote in favor of the Palestinian state hood .
3 - I am sure that you know pretty well that UAS veto in UNSC is not in the best interest of USA. But who cares ? The man wants to not only be elected next year but also to avoid the repeated question about his identity : Is he a Christian or Muslim ? Now American can rest assured that he has chosen Zionism.Period
 

Bob Algeron (47)
Friday September 23, 2011, 11:35 am
See, Abdessalam, you put the main focus on identity of the man and then are trying to derive his political views based upon it. With civilized people it is much more complex. They have philosophies and opinions.

Erdogan is an Islamist, so whatever Israel could do would not matter. Erdogan started the provocation, agreed to the Palmer Commission meditation and when he heard what he didn't like to canceled it retroactively. That's now how civilized people behave. Erdogan should apologize to Israel and pay compensation Israelis injured by PHH thugs he sent.

Turkey promised Palestinians financial aid, in US cuts its aid for the public spit into US face, which Palestinians are doing now. Erdogan wants to promote Turkey as Islamist country and to fight for the hegemony in the ME. That means competing with US.

Iran also is fighting for Islamization of the Middle East, and is also competing with US.

This game of Palestinian Arabs rejecting all previous signed accords and coming for a state without taking any obligation, even accepting their own Palestinian Refugees, is to show US its place. If Obama would be quiet and let the resolution go, everyone would know that US time is gone, and the players are Turkey and Iran.

Veto shows that one cannot ignore US even having an Islamic bloc at UN at his side.
 

Abdessalam Diab (150)
Friday September 23, 2011, 11:51 am
I assure you BOB that USA time has already gone. It lost its friends among most reguler Muslims and Middle East population including Christians in Palestine. Good for you
 

Past Member (0)
Friday September 23, 2011, 2:38 pm
Hi Abdessalam,

You seem to have missed something in your discussion with Bob. As allies on the world-stage, Muslims of the Middle East are becoming less useful to the U.S. (and others) with every passing minute. They were needed for the oil and natural gas.

Last March, Israel came out with a more ecologically friendly process for hydraulic fracturing, the environmental impact of which is the primary stumbling block in shale-oil extraction. With its shale-oil now accessible, the U.S. has access to more oil in its own territory than do the Saudis. As it ramps up production, it will become oil-independent, and it's not alone. China has even more, leaving the world's two primary economies unconcerned with Middle Eastern oil. Just to make matters worse, with its shale, Israel has nearly as much oil as the Saudis and they can ship to Europe more easily, leaving Middle Eastern Muslims with far less leverage. As shale-oil production ramps up elsewhere, the U.S. (and others) care less.

As for natural gas, Israel's off-shore natural gas reserve is believed to be large enough to serve Europe's needs for quite some time. Besides, while reserves are huge, production is low in the Middle East and they are getting along just fine right now.

In nearly every conceivable way, in several years Israel will be a more useful ally than Arabs and Iranians combined. The only thing Arabs and Iranians will be able to do that Israel cannot is police their own people. Global superpowers do not pay tribute, economic or political, to have weaklings restrain themselves. They use harsher means. The U.S.'s national interests are in alliance with Israel and while it may lose allies in the Middle East, if the U.S. falls it will be for totally unrelated reasons.
 

Jelica R. (159)
Friday September 23, 2011, 8:16 pm
Israel has always sought to be energy-independent. Facing an Arab boycott for decades, Israel’s energy supply has been a patchwork of run-of-the-mill imports and shadowy dealings. In the 1960s and ’70s crude came from Iran, but dried up when the revolution there overthrew the shah.

For about a decade Israel tapped wells in the occupied Sinai desert until it returned the area to Egypt under a 1979 peace treaty. More recently, much of Israel’s oil has flowed from former Soviet Union states.

For at least a decade, geologists have known that Israel’s best chance of finding its own energy supply was to drill far out in the Mediterranean. By 2009, with Noble on board, Israel discovered a midsize reserve at a site named Tamar and began drilling at Leviathan.

Together, Tamar and Leviathan contain enough gas to meet Israel’s energy needs for decades, with more left over for export, the companies involved in the project say. Experts value supply at up to $90 billion.

The Leviathan offshore gas field has 16 trillion cubic feet of gas reserves, and probably 4 billion barrel cache of oil beneath it. Good for Israel, right? Maybe... Because the Israeli/Lebanese maritime border remains in dispute, efforts to exploit huge natural gas fields in the Mediterranean could spark a conflict that reaches far beyond the two nations' contested boundaries. Last year, Lebanon submitted maps demarcating new maritime borders to the UN.

Oil and gas discoveries produce potential Israel-Lebanon flash points; CS Monitor; November 1, 2010
_______________________

The Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) and the Israeli government are going to extreme lengths to prevent these Freedom Flotillas from getting directly to the Gaza shore. Why? Are the Israelis trying to hide something?

The political leaders in Gaza are using unyielding military discipline and truly have nothing left to lose; or do they?

As a result of this huge contrast, the common people of Gaza die like flies before a rigid, unflinching onslaught of US supplied F16s, bunker buster missiles, GBU-39 smart bombs, Israeli main battle tanks and small arms fire.

Why the slaughter of ready and willing to die, dirt poor Palestinians?

It appears the Freedom Flotilla sailing to Gaza would go through a thicket of off shore oil and gas rigs and wells. The wells are sucking an estimated minimum of US$6 Billion Dollars of Palestinian off shore Natural Gas through rigs set up for slant drilling.

Poor Gaza: Wealthy in Natural Gas, Veterans Today; June 5th, 2010

How ironic, isn’t it? That while Gaza suffers its 5th year blockade with natural gas sparsely available for over 1.5 million imprisoned inhabitants, among many other basic necessities, 1.4 trillion-cubic-feet of the thing is sitting right there underneath their feet, confiscated by the corprotocracy of British Gas and the apartheid state of Israel.

War and Natural Gas: The Israeli Invasion and Gaza's Offshore Gas Fields; Global Research, January 8, 2009
 

Abo r. (95)
Friday September 23, 2011, 8:58 pm
President Obama is blindly supporting the IDF and will use the Vito in order to let the Jews and Zionests silent and wants to cover himself , he wants to get the votes of the comming election in which he will not win as they ( Amricans " jews and zionests uncover him of two main issues religion and birth certificate question and from where he got it?", He knows such qestions and wants to cover it by the Vito ... It is personal interest and business...
The issue of ( Muslims of the Middle East are becoming less useful to the U.S ) as the IDF has Oil and gas to provide US and EU then the core issue of US and EU is based on personal interest, bussines and benifit and is not based on justice and fairness.
The OILE AND GAS question with the IDF hands is from the Palestinian Land and the IDF IS STEELING IT and it will be for and to the PALESTINIANS and by that the PALESTINIANS WILL BE MORE USEFUL TO THE US AND EU IN THE NEAR FUTURE... if this is the question.
IT IS SHAM ON JUSTICE AND DEMOCRATIC COUNTRIES.
Will assure you all the PALESTINIAN STAT will EXIST and will be free , the PALESTINIAN LAND WILL BE FREE AND THE OCCUPATION WILL HAVE AN END and UK will run requesting forgivness from the Palestinians for the historical mistake the Great Brirain did by the BELFOURE PROMISS TO THE JEWS GROUPS and for the British MANDADE PERIOD to FALESTINE and the help given to the SHTERN< HAGANA JEWISH GROUPS.... THe day is comming and justice will exist in EU and US .
The will come and US and EU will get thier freedom from the IDF OCCUPATION.
 

Abo r. (95)
Friday September 23, 2011, 9:10 pm
Jelica R , it seems you were posting in the sam minute I did.
Thanks for stating it clearerly and showing the facts.
 

Abo r. (95)
Friday September 23, 2011, 9:24 pm
ABBAS THE PRESIDENT , realized finally that his way of negotiation with the IDF did not get any benifit is useless thats why HE put it within the hands of UN not OBAMA OR TONY BLAIR and others who are known to be IDF supporters blindly and continuously for thier own benifit both and others will be judged by the whole world people for thier supports and the wars they did in the world...
THE WILL COME AND JUSTICE WILL SPEAK THE FACTS.
THE FALESTINIANS AS A PALESTINIAN PEOPLE ( PUBLIC) within the ARABIAN SPRING who will direct the negotiation and not ABBAS, ABBAS WILL NOT TAKE THE DECIESION by himself, his people will do it, anything else will not be accepted by the FALESTINIANS ALL OVER THE WORLD.
 

Abo r. (95)
Friday September 23, 2011, 9:45 pm
The Gazian humanitarian suffers and pain will never forgive OBAMA THE PRESIDENT , who was given the peace priz for just bag of speach and nothing on the ground just promissing and nothing done, it will not give any forgiveness to EU countries leaders and the IDF... GAZIAN CHILDREN WILL NEVER FORGETB THAT THEY DO NOT HAVE ELECTRICITY , food, milk, blankets and drugs ... etc. as what Jelica said they have nothing left to loose... thats right Jelica they have nothing left to lose they are suffering and experiencing very traumatic experience in thier life they lost the smile and love from those jews and zionests and the supporters of the IDF whom they want to live leaving the PALESTINIAN CHILDREN without a home and state.
THE FALESTINIANS LOVE LIFE WANT TO LIVE AND LOVE THIER CHILDREN AND WANT THEM TO LIVE AS OTHER CHILDREN IN THE MODERN COUNTRIES.
AN EGYPTIAN SINGER SINGS A FAMOUS SONG ( INMA LE ASSABER HEDOOD) there is a boarder for patience or patience has a boarder, and the human insani people in the whole world patience is having a boarder and will not keep silent for the injustice , for the killing and murdering children infants pregnant women, women and aged and patients.
ONE OF THE IDF RABBIE SAID KILL ALL PALESTINIANS EVEN BABIES.... he is to assured that the FALESTINIANS WILL CONTINUE EXISTING women will continue delivering children and men will get marry more than one and the FALESTINIAN STATE WILL HAVE ITS BOARDERS AND Productive POPULATION in all fields they are intelgent and have the ability and justice power.
 

Robert O. (12)
Saturday September 24, 2011, 12:40 am
Thanks Abdessalam.
 

LucyKaleido ScopeEyes (78)
Saturday September 24, 2011, 8:57 am
I have already told Rice & Clinton that 'Now's the Time' (wink, wink, Jelica)
- but apparently they didn't pass the message on to Pres. Obama, given what he said at the UN about the Palestinian bid for UN membership & statehood.

I'm sorry, Abdessalam, for discovering your post rather late, but I am pleased to find you've posted an important article by Gideon Levy, who, to my mind, is always pertinent, just & right-on.

I have just finished listening to Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas' address to the UN General Assembly on C-Span. I kept reading such opposing views on it, I had to hear it for myself !
I must say that I do not find it 'vindictive,' as someone claimed - His language was certainly uncompromising, but it wasn't hate-mongering; & he rightly condemned "colonial military occupation", "ethnic cleansing" and "the brutality of repression and racial discrimination." & it was quite moving to hear him say "After 63 years of suffering: enough, enough, enough."

It's on the Jewish Voice for Peace site that I found a statement that best expresses my own feelings: "(President Abbas) reviewed, from the 1948 Nakba until today, the multitude of ways in which Israel has suppressed Palestinians’ rights. While the question remains if the UN statehood bid adequately addresses the larger issue of Palestinian rights, Abbas’ address importantly gave voice to the Palestinian struggle for self-determination. ... today was undoubtedly a historic and moving day. After over 63 years struggling for global recognition, it was moving to see the countries of the world represented in the UN general assembly give President Abbas a rousing standing ovation."

............................................................................................................................................................................

I have posted Democracy Now! Debate: Does U.N. Statehood Bid Advance or Undermine Palestinian Struggle? - it is interesting to hear two informed & committed Palestinians who disagree about the effectiveness of the UN membership bid.

(I've skipped Amy Goodman's & Juan Gonzalez' opening remarks, which include a clip from Obama's speech, as well as clips from other actors in the conflict, & so should be viewed)
... skip ...

JUAN GONZALEZ: A new poll shows the Obama administration’s stance on Palestinian recognition at the United Nations is more extreme than that of a strong majority of Israeli citizens. A joint Israeli-Palestinian poll shows 69 percent of Israelis think their government should accept U.N. recognition of an independent Palestinian state. ...
... skip ...

AMY GOODMAN: Well, for more on the proposal for Palestinian statehood set to go before the U.N. Security Council, we’re joined by two guests. Ali Abunimah is the co-founder of news and analysis website, The Electronic Intifada, and author of One Country: A Bold Proposal to End the Israeli-Palestinian Impasse. He’s in Cleveland. We’re also joined by Mouin Rabbani in Washington, D.C., visiting scholar at the Institute for Palestine Studies. He is also co-editor of Jadaliyya Ezine. Previously he worked as Palestine director of the Palestinian American Research Center.

We welcome you both to Democracy Now! Let’s go first to Washington, D.C., to Mouin Rabbani. What is your take on what is happening today at the United Nations, Mahmoud Abbas presenting his statehood bid?

MOUIN RABBANI: Yeah, well, the Palestinian leadership today is going to deposit an application for full membership in the United Nations at the Security Council. And it seems that the Security Council, at the behest of Washington, will sit on it, while Washington seeks to garner enough votes in opposition to this proposal, so it doesn’t have to exercise a veto. And it seems that the Palestinian leadership is not going to increase the pressure by also going to the General Assembly.

I have to say I think the main issue here is not the bid for recognition or statehood. I think the key issue here is the extent to which this initiative creates space and possibility for the internationalization of the question of Palestine in all its dimensions. In other words, a beginning of an irrevocable turn away from the Oslo process, which time and again has proven that it serves as nothing more than a political cover for the consolidation of Israeli control and the deepening colonization of the Occupied Territories.

JUAN GONZALEZ: Well, Ali Abunimah, you have been a vocal opponent or critic of this move by the Palestinians. Why?

ALI ABUNIMAH: Well, if we take what the PA, the Palestinian Authority, leadership say at face value, they say that their goal here was to try to break the status quo and to sort of return to negotiations, but on much better and more reasonable terms. That’s what they said. And if we evaluate it by those criteria, it’s been a complete disaster, because, in fact, what we saw from President Obama was a speech that was more pro-Israel than anything we have ever seen from him, which is saying something. And that was not a speech by a president of the United States addressing a world body with any sincerity about bringing an end to the conflict. That was a candidate running in an election where he is being very falsely and unfairly accused of not being pro-Israel enough. And that showed in the speech. So, the Palestinian Authority, rather than having ended the Oslo status quo, will go back home having achieved nothing and having simply demonstrated that it remains a captive of a situation where Palestinians are expected to carry out security, so-called security, for the Israeli occupation, are totally dependent on European Union and United States financing, and therefore financial blackmail, and have closed off all avenues for political action. And so, I see, really, this as a total failure.

The source of the opposition really came from a lot of Palestinians across the political spectrum who expressed fears that going to the United Nations to call for a state on a fraction of historic Palestine, without recognition of any other Palestinian rights, such as the rights of Palestinian refugees or the rights of Palestinian citizens in Israel, rather than advancing the cause of Palestine, could actually limit it and circumscribe it in the future because of unintended consequences. But it doesn’t look like that’s going to be a factor, after all, because this bid has gone absolutely nowhere.

AMY GOODMAN: Mouin Rabbani, your response?

MOUIN RABBANI: Well, you know, Ali is making the point that, for the Palestinian leadership, they’ve approached this entire issue as a tactical maneuver rather than a strategic initiative. And in that, he’s completely correct.

The point, rather, is, does this—does this initiative—or to the extent that it’s initiative, rather—create possibilities for a new dynamic for Palestinians to deal with the issues of occupation and self-determination and so on? And what I think you’ve seen in Palestinian society is a very broad desire to begin to move decisively away from the Oslo framework, which has been really, you know, bilateral negotiations, forever, about nothing, under unilateral American custodianship, with the U.S.—you know, Obama’s speech yesterday left even the Israelis in stunned disbelief about the extent of its pro-Israeli partisanship. So, no disagreement there. Rather, the issue is, you now have this initiative. This initiative creates possibilities, if the leadership is put under sufficient pressure by Palestinian society, to take it well beyond what the leadership intended. I think what Ali has been saying about the leadership is, more or less, essentially correct. But there—you know, the dynamic that’s created is by no means limited to what the leadership intends to do with it. And I think the key issue here is that this provides an opportunity to move away from Oslo and back towards the internationalization of the question of Palestine, where Palestinian—the issues of Palestinian self-determination are addressed on the basis of Palestinian rights as codified in a very large corpus of U.N. resolutions, rather than, you know, being codified in the pro-Israeli positions of the American administration and a Congress that has decisively gone off the deep end.

JUAN GONZALEZ: Well, Ali Abunimah, what about this issue of bringing back the question of the—through the international community, of dealing with the Israeli-Palestinian question? I was struck a couple of days ago by an interview with Brzezinski, a former key official in the Carter administration, who said that he saw this as a possible turning point in terms of the loss of influence of the United States in the Middle East and the rise, basically, of the European powers to be—to take a lead in attempting to resolve the question.

ALI ABUNIMAH: I don’t think that’s right. On the contrary, the role the European Union has been playing has been absolutely abject in terms of trying to be sort of a deal maker to get Israel’s demands written into Quartet statements, the Quartet being the self-appointed ad hoc group of international officials that has unilaterally placed the—replaced the United Nations on the question of Palestine. And the European Union provides the largest subsidies to Israeli occupation under the guise of aid to the Palestinian Authorities. So I don’t see the Europeans playing that role.

But on the question of internationalization and changing the dynamic, I agree with Mouin that that’s what needs to happen. But, you know, listen to your—to the introduction to this debate, and we had someone called Saeb Erekat being quoted as the chief negotiator. I and the rest of the Palestinians thought that Saeb Erekat had resigned after the scandals of the Palestine Papers were revealed. And yet, there he still is, calling himself chief negotiator. I think that that demonstrates the lack of accountability of this Palestinian leadership, the lack of connection to the Palestinian people, the lack of responsiveness to the Palestinian people, particularly the Palestinian diaspora and Palestinian citizens of Israel, who have essentially been written out of the question of Palestine. And part of the disaster of the Oslo process has been to reduce and circumscribe the Palestinian cause to residents of the West Bank and Gaza—and now perhaps only residents of the West Bank, as even Gaza is consigned to the garbage can.

And what we really need to do, I think, is rebuild a Palestinian consensus and body politic based on the rights and demands of every segment of the Palestinian people, inside and outside the country, based on fundamental rights, not a demand for limited statehood, which ignores the rights of the majority of Palestinians. Can this bid jump-start that process? I don’t know. But I think there are other movements going on that have been much more dynamic and much more inclusive, such as the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions movement, which was dismissed as very marginal just a couple of years ago but is now sufficiently frightening and threatening to Israel, that they’re enlisting the United States government to fight it, which, of course, the Obama administration has enthusiastically volunteered to do by pledging to help Israel fight so-called delegitimization. What they call delegitimization, we call a struggle for universal rights and self-determination of Palestinians.

AMY GOODMAN: Mouin Rabbani—

ALI ABUNIMAH: So I think there are other avenues that need to be explored. And this U.N. bid, I think, has, if anything, demonstrated the dead end of a diplomatic process within a U.N. system that is so hopelessly broken and rigged on behalf of the powerful.

AMY GOODMAN: Finally, Mouin Rabbani, your response, but also what you would have liked to have seen President Obama say?

MOUIN RABBANI: Well, you know, Ali makes some very relevant criticisms of the Palestinian leadership, and I think one could add many more to what he’s said. And, of course, what is an essential requirement here is a reconstruction of the Palestinian national movement on the basis of an inclusive and purposeful strategy, and all the rest of it. At the end of the day, the fact of the matter is that there is this initiative at the United Nations and that Palestinians now have an opportunity to take this initiative well beyond the objectives for which it was launched by the leadership and to seek to intelligently use this initiative to promote the re-internationalization of the question of Palestine by addressing the issues of self-determination and the end of occupation on the basis of Palestinian rights as codified in international law and U.N. resolutions. I don’t think that that issue should have to wait until we get the leadership that we want or that we deserve, and I don’t think that these two elements are necessarily contradictory.

Now, in terms of Obama’s speech, I mean, you know, it’s—again, Israelis themselves reacted with stunned disbelief that an American president would give a speech at the U.N. that left even Avigdor Lieberman delighted and saying, you know, Bibi Netanyahu is now going to have to rewrite his own speech, lest he come across as less Israeli than the American president.

So, again, you know, getting back to the larger question, one of the key values of going to the United Nations and promoting the internationalization of the question of Palestine is precisely to get away from this hopelessly compromised American role in—not in resolving this conflict, but which has in fact come down to a policy of transforming Israeli impunity and promoting Israeli impunity as a central plank of American Middle East policy and basically acting in support of perpetual Israeli occupation of Palestinian territory. So there can be no solution within the current framework. There can be no solution, unless the American role is replaced by a genuinely international one. And I think that going to the United Nations represents an essential first step in that direction, complemented, of course, by many other strategies and tactics, some of which Ali has mentioned. But at the end of the day, one either has Oslo or one has internationalization, and I don’t think that there’s a third option between the two.
 

Past Member (0)
Saturday September 24, 2011, 1:17 pm
Hi Jelica,

The suspected extent of the Leviathan gas field is outlined in an image here:
http://dailyreckoning.com/israels-other-source-of-natural-gas/

At its closest approach to the Gazan shore, it apparently comes within the range of normal "territorial waters" (12 nautical miles). However, the vast majority of the field is far away from Gaza. Drilling has not ramped up nearly enough yet to cause the problem you described, as the drills are apparently off the coast of Haifa.
 

monka blanke (74)
Sunday September 25, 2011, 12:48 pm
Free Palestine.....!!
 

Abdessalam Diab (150)
Monday September 26, 2011, 11:01 am
How was Netanyahu speech before UNGA ? I have read this article and wanted to share it with you.

Netanyahu Proved Israel Doesn't Want Peace

Netanyahu shows to the world that Israel wants neither an agreement nor a Palestinian state, and for that matter not peace, either.

By Gideon Levy

September 25, 2011 "Haaretz" - -On Friday night Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu once again proved himself to be an excellent elucidator, this time in the service of the Palestinians: He demonstrated to the world, better than even Mahmoud Abbas, why they had no recourse but to appeal to the United Nations. If there is one clear take-home message from his Hezekiah and Isaiah speech, it is this: The Palestinians (and the world ) can no longer expect anything from Israel. Nothing.

Netanyahu was particularly persuasive when he explained that a Palestinian state would endanger Israel - narrow waist, just hundreds of meters from Israeli cities, thousands of rockets - one giant blah-blah that willfully ignores the possibility of peace. A Palestinian state, perhaps, but absolutely not in our time, and not in our school of thought.

Our school of thought seemed especially deluded Friday night. Every decent Israeli must be ashamed of their prime minister, who stands before the world and tries to sell it the same old shopworn, even rotten goods that are long past their expiration date, expounding on ancient, irrelevant chapters of history and attempting to market cheap sentimentality like a beggar who exposes his wounds, both real and imaginary, to passersby. And the beggar is in fact a regional power.

Netanyahu, peddler of emotions, did not shrink from or forget anything, save reality. Abraham the patriarch, Hezekiah, Isaiah, pogroms, the Holocaust, 9/11, the children, the grandchildren and, of course, Gilad Shalit - all fodder for the tear wringer that assuredly didn't bring forth a single tear anywhere on the planet, with the possible exception of a few Jewish nursing homes in Boca Raton, Florida. There, perhaps, people were still moved by this kitschy death speech.

Netanyahu needed thousands of years of history to obscure reality, but Abbas' sense of history proved to be much more developed: He had no need to call up distant memories to elicit sympathy; all he needed was to soberly depict current events in order to attempt to shape a new history. The world and the auditorium cheered for Abbas because he spoke like a 21st-century statesman, not like a co-opted archaeologist of centuries past. Abraham or Ibrahim, Hezekiah or Netanyahu, Benjamin or Jacob-Israel, Jew or Judea - our prime minister's Bible and Holocaust stories should have made Israelis sitting down to their Friday night dinner feel awkward and uncomfortable. Is that all we have to sell to the world? Is that all we have to say? Is that what is being said on our behalf? Is that what we look like?

The faces said it all. Sitting around the table of Netanyahu's cheerleading squad (all of them Ashkenazi men, of course ) were two kippa-wearers, two generals, two former Russians, three current beard-wearers - a depressing and threatening group portrait of Israel's extreme right, class of 2011. The table of the Israeli delegation, even more than Netanyahu himself, revealed the true face of the most denounced country in the world today, with the exception of Iran and North Korea. They clapped, politely and obediently, not including Avigdor Lieberman and his loyal servant, Daniel Ayalon.

Israel's real face was also seen in Israel; Lieberman wasn't the only one to call Abbas' judicious, impressive address an "incitement speech." Joining the chorus, as usual, was Tzipi Livni - the Israeli alternative - who "didn't like the speech."

What was there not to like about Abbas' speech, apart from his silly mistake in failing to mention the Jews, together with the Christians and Muslims, to whom this precious land belongs? What in his speech was anything but true and very painful? "Enough" of the occupation? Ethnic cleansing in Jerusalem and the Jordan Valley? Obstructing checkpoints on the way to the hospital, and settlements that are a barrier to peace? What was incorrect, damn it? "A difficult speech," the chorus of Israeli commentators sang immediately afterward; indeed, a difficult speech describing an even more difficult reality - but what do they know about reality? And not a soul asked: Why isn't Israel reciting the travelers' prayer for the Palestinians, for their journey to statehood.

On Friday night the final curtain fell on Netanyahu's masked ball of a two-state solution. Hiding behind the curtain are darkness and gloom. And in that lies an event of historical performance: It proved to the world that Israel wants neither an agreement nor a Palestinian state, and for that matter not peace, either. See you at the next war.

 

Past Member (0)
Monday September 26, 2011, 11:50 am
Hi Abdessalam,
Here is the speech itself:
http://www.jadaliyya.com/pages/index/2730/text-of-netanyahu-speech-to-the-un-general-assembl

First, it should be noted that while Levy said that Netanyahu ignored the possibliity of peace following a withdrawal, the speech actuallyhad a large section devoted to discussing that, and why Netanyahu doubted it. The was the history regarding the Gaza withdrawal. He didn't make crazy predictions about thousands of rockets coming down. He was discussing the thousands that did the last time Israel tried exactly what others demand of it now.

Netanyahu even predicted Levy's response: "Israelis remember the bitter lessons of Gaza. Many of Israel's critics ignore them. They irresponsibly advise Israel to go down this same perilous path again. Your read what these people say and it's as if nothing happened -- just repeating the same advice, the same formulas as though none of this happened."

Levy's biases were well-established from the article which started this thread. His later one just confirmed his dishonesty.
 

Jelica R. (159)
Tuesday September 27, 2011, 12:07 am
@Stephen, this map tells another story (please, scroll down approximately 2/3 of the page):

Offshore Gas Reserves - Stake Your Claim; By Peter Eyre, 7-7-9

Israel lays claim to huge offshore gas reserves, but could this field extend into Lebanon's Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ) and could Lebanon succumb to the same treatment as the people of Gaza? This year Israel had some very promising news from the American company drilling in its offshore waters. Noble Energy announced a significant natural gas discovery in its Tamar prospect situated in the Matan license, offshore Israel. The Tamar #1 well, is located in approximately 5,500 feet of water and consists of three high-quality reservoirs.
...
Despite Israel's vast offshore area most of their activities happens to be at both extremities of their zone. In the North we see them drilling almost on the border with Lebanon and in the South we see them drilling on the border with Gaza. I have seen this scenario in many other regions of the world whereby a company drills close to international borders in order to stake their claim. In some cases concerns have been raised that such techniques are not only considered to be intimidating, but also has the potential to drill under such borders and exploit someone else's oil or gas reserves.
I can recall such claims being made on the Kuwait-Iraq border and in the Timor Sea on the Australian-Indonesian border.

With this uncertainty in mind we now have a situation developing that could cause similar concerns to both the Lebanese Government and the local authorities in Gaza. The Tamar field in the North could possible stagger the border with Lebanon and, should this be the case, then internationally speaking the reserves would be jointly owned. In the South we have exactly the same situation between the Gaza Marine Area and adjacent Israeli waters. This uncertainty is totally unacceptable and should never be allowed to develop. Oil and gas exploration companies and their respective contracted governments should always look for more diplomatic ways of carrying out such exploration projects, especially in such politically sensitive areas. It could be considered both intimidating and most undiplomatic if such activities take place without consultation with the adjacent country.

To give an example we can look at the situation developing further South. At the moment the Israelis are pumping gas from their Mari-B well to onshore Israel. This gas field sits right on the Gaza border and one could ask the same question, does the Mari-B field extend into Gaza? To the West of this commercial gas field are other explored reserves known as Noa and Noa South. In the case of the latter two these reserves do stagger the border with Gaza and therefore should be considered as jointly owned.

Let's now consider the intention of Israel to bring the Noa and Noa South wells into commercial production. The companies involved can create a subsea connection between the existing Mari-B system to the above wells and the entire gas reserves would then flow directly to onshore Israel without any involvement or knowledge of the authorities in Gaza/Palestine who legally jointly own them!
...
 

Jelica R. (159)
Tuesday September 27, 2011, 12:16 am
"... all fodder for the tear wringer that assuredly didn't bring forth a single tear anywhere on the planet, with the possible exception of a few Jewish nursing homes in Boca Raton, Florida...", and, apparently, here at care2. I can't say that I am surprised, though.
 

Tim Haines (6)
Tuesday September 27, 2011, 1:46 am
Watch out for paid apologists for Israel posing as regular internet users:

http://bit.ly/phZhD3

"Will Talkbackers in the Project Disguise Themselves as “Regular Internet Surfers”?

“Of course,” said Shturman. “Our people will not say ‘Shalom, I am from the public relations campaign of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and this is what I wanted to say to you.’ They will not necessarily identify themselves as Israelis, they will speak as internet surfers and as citizens, and will write responses that look personal but are founded on a pre-prepared list of messages that the Ministry of Foreign Affairs will draw up.” "
 

Abdessalam Diab (150)
Tuesday September 27, 2011, 7:11 am

Sending a Green Star is a simple way to say "Thank you"

You cannot currently send a star to Tim because you have done so within the last week
 

Scott Freewheeler (45)
Tuesday September 27, 2011, 7:37 am
I thought that fraudulent misrepresentation if this nature was illegal Tim. Thank you very much for this link and that particularly damning quote from the Israeli Foreign Ministry. What a great website too; added to bookmarks.

I have always known that I have dealt with shills, even on this internet community because no one can support Israel in everything they ever do, no matter what. It is good that it is now official - we know now for sure what we are up against.

This is in itself an admission of an evil nature and an evil agenda. Why else would one need a team paid for 'sock puppets' posing as members of the public and working around the clock to propagate "pro-Israeli messages"? No decent entity would require propaganda to try to justify it. It won't make any difference because you cannot hide the fact that Palestine is militarily occupied still after 63 years of an illegal invasion. It is the worst example in the world of apartheid.

It is no surprise why people are against Israeli policies of this nature. We are not getting paid - we write, protest, boycott, divest and encourage sanctions against oppressive policies because we care about innocent people and about justice and our world generally. We don't want WW3 and it is clear to me that it is what Israel was created to initiate - see proof here;

The Khazar Empire

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/esp_sociopol_khazar08.htm

We all make 'mistakes' and sometimes things don't go the way we had hoped. It is far better if we put our hands up and admit it. But if you talk to some people here, even when Israeli forces have used phosphorous on a UN school in occupied Palestine or attacked and massacred unarmed civilian humanitarian aid workers in the open seas in an act of murderous piracy, they still insist Israel acted correctly.

Now if I was the Israeli foreign Ministry, I would blame the individuals for panicking, being a little overzealous with the power they have (it happens) or making a mistake and then take appropriate measures to demote or promote those 'guilty' ones out of military exercises on the ground but no, they make lame attempts to justify their atrocities and all their paid for shills agree, obviously.
 

Scott Freewheeler (45)
Tuesday September 27, 2011, 8:05 am
PS. Shturman says "it helps to expand the struggle into bigger dimensions"; the 'bigger dimensions' is that they want to convince the world that their plans for WW3 as the final stage for the 'New World Order' that the Crazies and their foolish collaborators are hoping to achieve is a war between Jews and Muslims and not for the real reason - they want an end to religion and any kind of unity, a massive 95% reduction in the population and for the survivors to be their slaves in an utterly dominated and oppressive police state. You may well think this alarmist but look at the amount of evidence and ask yourself if there could be any other reason for it. Please come back to me if after watching this series on the Khazar Empire, you have any questions of doubts and I would be happy to try to explain or provide proof of these claims.

Do not let your 'normalcy bias' dismiss these claims. I am perfectly sane and I have spent 25 years researching these lunatic families and their 4,000 years of hunger for power through successive generations. These thirteen families control almost the entire world already; they are all related. The same Bavarian family that is the UK royal family is related to every US president throughout US history. Bush for example is thirteenth cousin to the queen. Obama is a cousin of Dick Cheney and Bush as well as Ford, Johnson, Truman and James Madison. Winston Churchill is also a cousin. Obama is related to Brad Pitt and Hillary Clinton to his partner, Angelina Jolie. Clinton, who is of French-Canadian descent on her mother's side, is a distant cousin of [the anti] Madonna, a well known cabalist occultist. Other distant cousins include Camilla Parker-Bowles who has more 'royal' blood than the UK queen. Source;

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/mar/25/barackobama1

Most of these bloodlines keep very quiet but they are the ones who decide what these puppets say and do. Their names are as follows; Astor, Bundy, Collins, DuPont, Freeman, Kennedy, Li, Onassis, Reynolds, Rockefeller, Rothschild, Russell Van Duyn and the Merovingian bloodline is also inter-related (European Royal Families).

They are right that many of us need leadership, that we are happy to behave like sheep but wouldn't it be better for those of us that need to be told what to think are being led by decent people who want peace and know that we are all equal?
 

Abdessalam Diab (150)
Tuesday September 27, 2011, 10:55 am
Ireland Backs Bid for Palestinian Statehood
Irish Foreign Minister Eamon Gilmore to the UN General Assembly: "The decision of President Abbas to seek Palestine's membership of the United Nations is entirely legitimate and understandable. Palestine has the same right to membership of the United Nations as Ireland or any other Member of this Organisation. Some would seek to argue that Palestine cannot be recognised as a State because its borders remain to be agreed. But if the borders of Palestine are still a matter for negotiation, then so, by definition, are those of Israel which is rightly a full member of the UN..."
"The day will come, not too far off, when the General Assembly will be asked to vote on a proposal to admit Palestine as a member of this Organisation or perhaps, as an interim step towards the achievement of that goal, to accord Palestine non-member observer state status. Provided that the resolution is drafted in terms that are reasonable and balanced, I expect Ireland to give its full support."
http://www.labour.ie/press/listing/13170528717198538.html
 
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