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Branding People as Hoarders


Society & Culture  (tags: americans, corruption, culture, education, ethics, family, freedoms, rights, society, interesting, humans )

Maria Ele
- 974 days ago - care2.com
I AM SICK OF THE NEW BRAND "ANIMAL HOARDER", IT'S PERFECT FOR THOSE WHO DON'T LIKE ANIMALS...I AM SICK OF LABELS...IT IS NONE OF ANYONE'S FNG BUSINESS HOW MANY OR WHAT KIND OF ANIMALS PEOPLE LIVE WITH



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Comments

Maria Elena Gonzalez (298)
Thursday April 19, 2012, 2:14 pm
THIS IS A BRAND NEW TERM I KEEP ON HEARING ON TV
I AM SICK OF THE NEW BRAND "ANIMAL HOARDER", IT'S PERFECT FOR THOSE WHO DON'T LIKE ANIMALS...I AM SICK OF LABELS...IT IS NONE OF ANYONE'S FNG BUSINESS HOW MANY OR WHAT KIND OF ANIMALS PEOPLE LIVE WITH...JUST DON'T GO TO THEIR HOMES!!! STOP THE NAME CALLING!!!!
WHAT ABOUT CULTURES THAT THINK HAVING A LOT OF CHILDREN IS GREAT? I THINK THEY SHOULD BE SPAYED OR NEUTERED, HOWEVER, IT'S NONE OF MY BUSINESS, I JUST DON'T GO TO THEIR HOMES!!!!!!
 

Maria Elena Gonzalez (298)
Thursday April 19, 2012, 2:16 pm
just today on some stupid show, most of the idiots were trying to say you should get rid of your pet to keep your lover if they like your pet...I don't think they think with their head, people who prioritize pleasuring their sexual needs vs being responsible should just get lobotomized!
 

Maggie S. (41)
Thursday April 19, 2012, 2:18 pm
YOU are completely wrong! Animal cruelty is everyone's business or at least it should be! It is the shelters and the public who have to mop up after a hoarder lets animals starve or die of disease! What kind of sick person allows animals to live in filthy conditions, with little or not proper food or care? It sounds to me like you are one of them and your are trying to justify your bad behaviour! YOU BETTER WELL BET IT IS OUR BUSINESS! I have seen the results of hoarding animals and it is NOT pretty! If you have a problem, stop making excuses and get yourself some help! The animals deserve better than you hoarding them!
 

Maggie S. (41)
Thursday April 19, 2012, 2:21 pm
So, you get off on keeping too many animals? That is very very sick! You certainly do not think of the animals, just yourself! That is why we do not want people hoarding animals! Stop making excuses and GET SOME HELP!
 

Maria Elena Gonzalez (298)
Thursday April 19, 2012, 2:41 pm
You need help, as the rest of people who brand others do...where is the line between most animal shelters and hoarding them legally? There is also a huge difference between being a filthy person, and having "too many" animals in other people's mind, people who think they are better than others and feel they can put that brand on them.
Look at the conditions Miami shelters are, and sooooo many others, take a look at that. There are tons of people who have many animals, and are CLEAN, well fed, healthy, LIKE MY 7 CATS and the ferals that I take care of... there may be sick people out there that can't take care of themselves and end up caring for more than they can take in, who instead of labeling them and insulting them, should be helped.
Who the hell are you, conceited Maggie S, who knows nothing of me to tell me I need help? You watch your own before calling me anything. For your info, all of my life I have cleaned dogshit as a volunteer in a shelter that wasn't subsidized by the city, so I know cleaning that sort of thing. I have the animals I can take care of, and I have the means and ability to take in more if I wanted to...so go counsel someone else, and look at what you say before you hit submit and learn some humility, know-it-all! Maggie, you are just another follower of the system, get your own mind.
 

Maria Elena Gonzalez (298)
Thursday April 19, 2012, 2:46 pm
Here's some news and a petition re the legal and subsidized "hoarding"
http://www.care2.com/news/member/884115011/3263858
 

Maggie S. (41)
Thursday April 19, 2012, 2:52 pm
You are absolutely disturbed - your angst and trying to turn it back on me proves that. I am a biologist and have studied a great deal re animal behavior, both domestic and wild. I can see from your hysterical attitude that you have obviously been challenged about your animals. I DO NOT THINK 7 cats is too many if you can care for them. What is distrubing here is this entire posting and your ranting. Very very disturbing. Your defensiveness shows there is something going on here. By the way, how educated are you?

If you animals are clean, happy and well fed, then I applaud you. BUT - your posting one this website in this manner is disturbing. AND you should NOT be criticizing the the fact that there are hoarders and they are very destructive people. This is not a new term, this is not a new disease, this is not a new problem. You would do well to calm down. I have had as many as 7 cats and I know what it takes to care for them. The picture you posted is not comforting. And, your attacks on me are even less so. Given that you cannot control your emotions or outbursts, I would suggest that there is a huge problem here. You need to get a grip!
 

Allan Yorkowitz (448)
Thursday April 19, 2012, 2:53 pm
Maria Gonzalez: I don't know if you know what true animal hoarding is. This has to do with people who live with animals under the most disgusting conditions. These are not cared for animals, many/most are sick and need immediate attention.
I can tell you of cases of hoarders who kept dead cats in their freezer. There are levels to this mental instability, and you shouldn't take this personally, if it does not apply to you.
 

Brian M. (202)
Thursday April 19, 2012, 3:06 pm
It is true that animal shelters need to be held accountable for the conditions in which they keep their animals. However, the same thing can be said of private owners of animals. If some insanely wealthy person creates a relative paradise for a large number of animals, then it is possible that an exception to laws limiting the number of pets could be suggested. However, the real problem with most animal "hoarders" is that they have far too many animals for them to reasonably support in a manner that is advantageous and healthy for the animals. The well-being of the animals should be paramount over the individual's perceived right to own said animals.
 

Maria Elena Gonzalez (298)
Thursday April 19, 2012, 3:09 pm
Maggie S, titles don't impress anyone, much less the bottom of the science world...I just watched another one of these TV programs where they put down people as hoarders, when they are normal people who love animals. Then the boyfriend gives the ultimatum of them or me...are you the kind that would take their pets to the pound so they can have steady sex?
You have been attacking me and telling me to get help knowing NOTHING! Get the facts before you blabber... you should know that if you went to school...I will ALWAYS be defensive when it comes to animal welfare, aswell as people who get ostracized for trying to help. Much like what you did
Ranting? Where...look at your posts, picking on me in ignorance: "You are absolutely disturbed - your angst and trying to turn it back on me proves that. I am a biologist and have studied a great deal re animal behavior, both domestic and wild. I can see from your hysterical attitude that you have obviously been challenged about your animals."
What's wrong with a lady holding her cats? She's branded as a hoarder.
I have not been branded personally, but I have seen others who needed help in lieu of insult, and they have been called hoarders. The generalized use of this is expanding, and not helping.




 

Maria Elena Gonzalez (298)
Thursday April 19, 2012, 3:22 pm
The problem is that the majority of people are not exactly educated, they see this term on TV and start making problems around the neighbors who have many pets, or even the self paid shelters...they get bigger problems due to the misuse of this branding. I know a couple of people and organizations that need help and get problems due ti this branding.
Being filthy, or keeping dead animals (not hamburgers) in the freezer evidently shows a problem...I knew a lady whose dog died, and she had it in the freezer... IT WAS BECAUSE SHE COULD NOT BURY IT< PHYSICAL PROBLEM!! So did we brand her? No, we found out, we help, we buried it for her in her yard under a rose bush.
I don't think filth and illness is tied to keeping animals, but a personal problem. I have seen many filthy people, not tied to animals. Hoarding is an ill fated term that is unfortunately growing in popularity and being applied to the wrong people, thus bringing major problems and heartbreak to innocent people and subsequently to innocent animals, who are taken by our controllers away from their homes. It's a new witchhunt, that people who don't like animals use as a tool to getting their ways too much.
 

naomi cohen (37)
Thursday April 19, 2012, 3:59 pm
i think maggie s. is totally out of line. if you have nothing nice to say, then don't say it. i agree with maria. there is nothing wrong with people who have an abundance of animals. if they are neglected or abused, it is a problem otherwise, they are entitled to love and take care of all the animals in their possession.
 

Cher Away Moving (1470)
Thursday April 19, 2012, 4:05 pm


the description at wikipedia states.....

"Animal hoarding" involves keeping higher than usual numbers of animals as domestic pets without having the ability to properly house or care for them, while at the same time denying this inability.


This isn't a term for people who have multiple pets it's actually aimed at people who have too many pets and don't have the capacity to care for them.


 

Ge M. (218)
Thursday April 19, 2012, 4:30 pm
Thank you Cher. Maria, you are going to have friends disagree with you so please do not get upset.

The sort of hoarders that concern people, and that you are hearing about, are those who genuinely love their animals but become overwhelmed with them. If they are not spayed or neutered then they will breed and this will create genetic problems. These animals are also no vaccinated nor do they see a vet. This means that health issues such as eye and respiratory infections abound and, often, many have to be put down as having gone beyond being saved by treatment and this spares them dying in terrible pain. As said above, extreme hoarders keep the bodies, often by freezing.

Animals with long hair do not get brushed and they suffer terribly from matts which cause the skin to be pulled and cause terrible skin diseases and suffering. Dogs do not get walks and are often confined to small dirty cages, I wouldn't want to spend my time standing in my faeces and urine or uncleaned litter trays often without food or clean water.

Then the conditions that the owner lives in usually (but not always) are appalling and very unhygienic. The house will need cleaning and sorting as well.

Hoarders are a known psychiatric condition and it can just as easily be comics, newspapers, sweet wrappers or combinations. Where there is an issue that concerns us all is animal hoarding. There is no reason why they cannot keep some or even all of the animals, depending on the number involved. This will allow them to continue to love their animals in a good living condition for all of them and for those that the owner cannot cope with to be rehomed in a happy forever home. This is a win win situation for all concerned including the animals.

 

Ge M. (218)
Thursday April 19, 2012, 4:34 pm
I should add that this is not a new phenomenon but it has come to public attention because of series such as Animal Precinct.

 

marie c. (168)
Thursday April 19, 2012, 4:40 pm
Just want to say as long as you have lots and lots of money to ensure your animals are well kept well fed and plenty of spare cash for vet bills or insurance spotless housing conditions and you have the time to give each animal quality time thats fine but Allan is right these programmes show people who have a mental condition and the animals are usually in a dreadful state truly suffering there is a difference sometimes the people are also in need of serious help.
 

marie c. (168)
Thursday April 19, 2012, 4:44 pm
Sorry forgot to say good to see you around Maria Elena have not heard from you for some time.
I am sure that your cats are the love of your life and you can well afford to take fantastic care of them.
 

marie c. (168)
Thursday April 19, 2012, 4:48 pm
Have to say I agree with you about the children its on par to hoarding. often its just to hang onto a man and it usually fails especially these days the way life is love is really not enough education health care again down to money as awful as it sounds it is the world we live in and children will not grow up today grateful to you for having to share with numerous brothers and sisters as much as people try to kid themselves
 

Catherine Turley (193)
Thursday April 19, 2012, 4:50 pm
i'd bet every penny i have that if you could drop off a stray at a shelter and be sure it would find a loving home and not be immediately killed, there would be very few, if any, "hoarders". peta, aspca, and hsus are making money hand over fist "investigating" and turning in "hoarders". caboodle ranch is a perfect example. go check out the investigation done by hard-core animal rights group 'negotiation is over'. they found nothing of concern, yet peta managed to get the authorities and aspca to raid the place. do you seriously think they're going to find homes for 700 cats. they are probably already dead. all for money and publicity. don't accept what these places are spoon feeding you. ask questions.
 

Catherine Turley (193)
Thursday April 19, 2012, 4:56 pm
i'll just add that i've encountered a number of people over the years who couldn't properly care for their animals. i didn't turn them in. i gave them food, litter, meds, and cash.
 

marie c. (168)
Thursday April 19, 2012, 4:58 pm
Oh Catherine I feel hoarding has nothing to do with having the right shelters it is a sickness very sad.
People looking for love and nothing or no one can give you the unconditional love like an animal
I myself have 3 dogs and 3 cats most of them are rescues but I am in a very good position to look after them If ever my financial position changed I would have no alternative but to rehome them Fortunately there is no chance of that the way my finances are arranged
 

Nyack Clancy (452)
Thursday April 19, 2012, 5:03 pm
Hi Maria- thanks for posting. I don't think this term applies to fully functional people that may have an extra pet or two.

I have watched a few of these shows, and the people they are calling "hoarders" all seem to have some major psycholigical problem, where they are not even able to take care of themselves properly, nevermind hundreds of animals that they can afford to feed, or provide medical care for. It become absolute neglect and cruelty, no doubt about it.

And what is worse is- they could pick up the phone and ask for help from any animal rescue organization- but? THEY NEVER DO. They just go on and on living that way with unspayed or nuetered animals prducing more and more litters that they clearly cannot care for.

I dont think this people are bad people, actually I think they started out with very good intentions on saving as many animals as they could. However, like I said, these people are not functional. Most of them seem like they could benefit more from a psychiatrist than from jail time.
 

Ge M. (218)
Thursday April 19, 2012, 5:26 pm
Catherine, you are showing the misunderstanding that many people do over mental health issues. Just because someone doesn't have money doesn't make them a hoarder, it usually means that they are doing the best that they can on limited means. Hoarders have psychiatric problems, not always severe. It is the lack of understanding that causes the issues you have raised and show that you may not fully appreciate the problem. I suggest that you reread my comment above.

Not all rescues know how to how to handle the situation above and some people find it difficult to deal with. Mental health is the Cinderella of medicine and insufficent resources are put their way. Many people are scared of it. Mental health is not infectious and often patience and kindness will allow people to be helped. Not everyone is a knife wielding schizophrenic!

My pets have always been rescues and when hubby & I had next to no money to eat with, our cats ate first. I had 3 cats (had to put one down after a fortune in vet's bills but her welfare was important) and we adopted our last foster dog, an 11 year old Border terrier bitch who had been dumped and she spends a lot of time visitng the vet! Good thing they like each other!!

And as for children, I agree that there are some families who have far too many. But, while we have a democracy, they are allowed to have them. I chose to have 2 children just as I chose to have 3 cats (now 2) and to foster dogs (had to give it up) and adopt the last one. My choice, my husband's choice, and no-one else's!

If my children are abused or starved then it would be appropriate to report me to social services just as it is important to do the same things for animals. Better to report someone and to be wrong than to ignore it and find dead animals.
 

Maria Elena Gonzalez (298)
Thursday April 19, 2012, 5:54 pm
It's nice to see you girls, too!
My point is I keep on seeing this more and more...like a fad...I never want to hear it again!
Today it was ridiculous on TV, a lady with a bunch of animal she absolutely loves gets sick, and her family, instead of taking care of them calls her a hoarder so they can blame on her the fact that they didn't want to take care of them as she was in the hospital...I wonder if they ever thought how she took care of them when they couldn't wipe their own arses. A couple months ago there was a thing on the news where a man was being interviewed ( I actually was on the scene of the interview ), they accused him of hoarding, he had several cats in a camper...what they didn't say until after the fact is that he was taking care of them for his lady friend, who got sick, AND THE SHELTERS AND ANIMAL ORGANIZATIONS WOULD NOT HELP HER, SO HE WAS BOARDING THEM UNTIL SHE CAME OUT! what's the point? Too fast to label people, but NO HELP. You know where they ended up? IN CAGES AT THE POUND...IS THAT BETTER? i don't think so. Of course, I disagree with filth and famine, but people are too quick to label others.
This is a comment from a friend of mine on FB, I couldn't agree more:
Susan Walsh I dislike the term, too. I also dislike the lack of compassion people have for the little old lady or man that started out feeding a few abandoned cats and didn't have the money to get them spayed and neutered. It never seems to occur to the name callers to help that person. Domestic animals are not the problem, people are. If I find a stray animal I take responsibility for it. If I can't feed or house it I will get it to someone who can. The shows that make money from "animal hoarders" should be donating it to spay and neuter. I wonder what the word is for a person who finds a hungry cold kitten in his yard and chases it off?
 

Michelle S. (458)
Thursday April 19, 2012, 5:58 pm
It's such a sad, disheartening state of affairs and when it comes to the millions of stray animals that are abandoned and living on the streets. I honestly believe that some people start taking the animals in with the genuine intention to help but don't know where to draw the line and become overwhelmed. The situation then often times becomes one of having too many animals and not enough resources to ensure their proper care and welfare.

You are right, Maria. The term "hoarding" as been snatched up by the media and can be taken out of context or misapplied to situations that do not involve animal abuse or neglect. Like all terms, it must be used correctly and be applied to the proper context.

Thanks Catherine, Marie, Nyack and Clancy for weighing in. You've all made salient and reasoned points. It's an important conversation and deserves dialogue. Also, thank you Maria for your passion and your dedication to animals. We're all her for the same reason: we love and care about animals. Passion drives the conversation, and dedication is what will helps create the change we need to help enact, whether it's supporting someone who can't care for their animals or clarifying sensationalized terminology.
 

Catherine Turley (193)
Thursday April 19, 2012, 6:30 pm
gillian, my point is that there are very, very few true hoarders with a verifiable mental condition. puffy paws has been accused of hoarding because there are too many cats in such a small space. matter of fact, rick is in the process of getting his paperwork more easily accessible because he knows he is vulnerable. i took in hazel neely's 6 cats because she begged rescues to help her when she was dying and not one stepped up. there is no help if you get in over your head. that's my point.
 

Maria Elena Gonzalez (298)
Thursday April 19, 2012, 6:40 pm
Catherine, that is exactly the kind of thing I mean...I was thinking of Puffypaws and all the obstacles they have encountered instead of help, and the Hazel Neely situation...I am so upset now, I can't stop crying, I didn't know of her passing...I come in and out of care2 as I can tolerate only so much sadness for so long, and I missed her passing...bless your heart for taking over her babies. When did this happen?
Cher, why are you so distant?
 

Past Member (0)
Thursday April 19, 2012, 6:57 pm
Noted, I wished people realize that they are not helping when they have more than 3. You just can't give the attention they need,
 

Shirley S. (176)
Thursday April 19, 2012, 7:24 pm
My interpretation of ANIMAL HOARDERS are people who take on TOO many animals & fail to COPE & therefore the animals SUFFER. Thereby defeating the purpose of "looking after animals".
 

Maria Elena Gonzalez (298)
Thursday April 19, 2012, 8:19 pm
From Susan:
Susan Walsh Read all the discussion, Maria. In making a television series out of people with animal problems they have encouraged the attitude that if you have more than one or two cats you automatically have a mental problem. Nobody implies that of women that have fifty pairs of shoes. I personally don't have fancy clothes or furniture. My house is decorated with beauty and grace beyond any piece of furniture. There are nine of them. They all know their names and come when called. Aside from strokes on their backs when I walk by, they choose when and how to have time with me. Luckily I live in the country so the cats don't need shots. They are spayed and neutered. Cats that are not fixed don't make good pets and most cat diseases are spread by breeding and poor condition. My thinking about the television series is that it has caused harassment of people with more than a couple of cats when it is totally uncalled for. Sticking a phrase on something does not mean you have invented a valid concept.
 

Ge M. (218)
Friday April 20, 2012, 3:18 am
Catherine, yes, I know about Puffy Paws and still make small regular donations as I can afford.

In some respects it is not a good example because it is the local people who are harassing Rick who is a proper rescue. I do admire both of them. Please give if you haven't already done so http://www.puffypawskittyhaven.com/

I would add that it is the misunderstanding or the misuse of a term that appears to be causing the problem, apart the problem itself. Of course people will deliberately misuse the term to get what they want. When some children/family want a parent/relation's money, they will do anything to get it. I see family feuds lasting for years over it. I heard a terrible story about a woman who signed her house over to her daughter as she said that she would look after her. After the requisite time period, the house became the property of the daughter so that no inheritance tax would be due on it. The daughter then evicted her mother.

Maria, I agree with you that the hoarder name is often used with no understanding but it is still a valid term and the problem has been around for a long time. Autism is another word that is being used more. Sometimes it is because people are being diagnosed better than they were but people still don't understand what it means and use it because they can.

I would have more cats as so many need a home (if I could afford it) but that would not make me a hoarder, just a fruit & nut that loves cats! I know when to say no and how to look after them properly.
 

bilja c. (48)
Friday April 20, 2012, 3:53 am
If someone can take care of himself, and is fully aware of present, take proper care of his pets I do not care how many animals he has.
 

marie c. (168)
Friday April 20, 2012, 4:27 am
I hear what Susan is saying and yes it is a fine line.
Its a difficult one as I would not call Susan or myself a hoarder. Its once again peoples ignorance as so many have said on the thread its only when they are not being looked after and suffering that it becomes a major problem. Also the people themselves are often in need of help. We need more shelters more help for these unfortunate people and animals but whats new our animals are usually the first to suffer.
I agree with you Maria Care 2 is sometimes so explicit I can not sleep I love a happy thread at the end of the night
 

Cynthia not well (340)
Friday April 20, 2012, 4:53 am
I agree with Maria, the word hoarder is used to label a lot of people that should not be labeled as hoarders and I think that Maggie S.'s attack on Maria was unwarranted and hateful, even going so far as to calling into question Maria's education. Ms. Maggie should be ashamed and she should apologize.
 

LaurenAWAY Kozen (163)
Friday April 20, 2012, 9:08 am
Noted. If a person can take care of all of there pets & themselves there is no reason to call them a hoarder. Thanks for posting.
 

linda b. (190)
Friday April 20, 2012, 9:20 am
I feel people should be able to have as many pets as they want as long as they have the wherewithall to feed them and able to afford vets fees. I actually watched 2 programmes a while back where two elderly people had many cats and dogs, too many for them to care for and the living conditions of these poor unfortuante creatures were disgusting to say the least .Many of the animals needed medical treatment and lots were put up for rehoming, i know the old dears thought they were doing right but in their cases they did take on far too much not realising that the enviornment their animals had to live in was detremental to the welfare of their cats and dogs.
 

liz c. (842)
Friday April 20, 2012, 12:48 pm
Hi Maria--it is so nice to see you again. I know that you are a responsible animal owner and lover--hoarding is not a problem that you have. But there are some people that maybe out of the goodness of their heart--get overwhelmed and take on more than they can handle----I dont care how many animals that people have as I truly believe that animals bring great joy to your lives. But there are some people that are mentally disturbed that lose the ability to care for the animals that they keep taking in---I oppose it in that case because the animals suffer--often very painful deaths because they are not cared for-and maybe sick animals have been brought into the home and is making the other animals sick. To me the difference between caring for a lot of animals and hoarding--is the health and welfare of the animal--not the number of them that you have.
 

Michela m. (3954)
Friday April 20, 2012, 7:35 pm
Thanks!! Noted
 

colleen p. (38)
Saturday April 21, 2012, 3:34 am
u r rite.

ppl suld have 120 cats if tey want. evn if tey cant afford
sumon shuld help dem by food 4 120 cats.
 

colleen p. (38)
Saturday April 21, 2012, 3:40 am
http://www.10tv.com/content/graphics/2011/02/04/image_hoarding280.jpg
http://media.bonnint.net/az/28/2811/281189.jpg
http://smallscreenscoop.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/hoarders-rats.jpg
http://dingo.care2.com/pictures/c2c/share/30/308/868/3086829_370.jpg
http://shsthetorch.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/ray-04-625x450.jpg
http://wac.450f.edgecastcdn.net/80450F/nj1015.com/files/2012/01/Animal-Hoarding.png
 

Kenneth L. (314)
Saturday April 21, 2012, 6:19 am
Hoarder as far as I'm concerned means someone who has more animals living with them than they can take care of, and that means the animals suffer---diseased, hungry, thirsty, living in filth, etc.
Number of animals doesn't enter into it.
If you can take care of 50 cats, great! If you can't and the animals are suffering it's wrong and then you're called a hoarder.
It is other people's business whenever and wherever animals suffer.

Now do people throw labels around and use them incorrectly and spitefully or hurtfully? Of course. That's what humans do.

There are loving, tender, kind individuals who help cats etc., save their lives, that no one else would help.
There are some people who have WAY too many cats that they can't possibly care for and yet seem to be blind or unable to stop acquiring more, which only harms the cats, and somebody has to step in and then RESCUE THE CATS FROM THE RESCUER.
 

Kenneth L. (314)
Saturday April 21, 2012, 6:29 am
It's a great topic Maria, stars to you. Need more people who get passionate about things and speak out. Beats apathy any old day!
 

Kenneth L. (314)
Saturday April 21, 2012, 6:46 am
Excuse me for more than one post, but I just saw Maggie calling Maria sick and 'needs some help'. That's ANOTHER example of labeling, where somebody is given a 'mental illness' or 'mental disorder' label. Don't mistake anger or passion or upset or emotion for some quack mental illness label.
 

naomi cohen (37)
Saturday April 21, 2012, 3:23 pm
i agree with kenneth. we are all here for the animals. there is no reason for name-calling. maggie has her own opinion, fine. but it is hurtful to criticize maria for what she believes in. maggie's comments are totally inappropriate.
 

marie c. (168)
Saturday April 21, 2012, 4:45 pm
Please do not start lynch mob against Maggie S There are a number of them on Care 2
Fortunately Care 2 is aware of them
Sometimes we are very passionate about certain things and write too spontaneously relying on personnel experiences which is wrong. None of us know why Maggie feels so strongly
Those of us who know Maria Elena well can admire how she handled her reply Maria is a wonderful caring person. and it upsets me to see her upset but Maggie has her own reasons for feeling so strongly and she is allowed to disagree.
Lately certain threads have the same sheep following each other and if some one disagrees the attack begins . I believe Care 2 know the culprits
 

marie c. (168)
Saturday April 21, 2012, 4:53 pm
Dear Naomi I must congratulate you on your profile incredible so many pussy cats I could not stop looking I think it is the best profile I have ever seen
Maria Elena take a look it will make you smile XXXXX Off to bed too tired to send personnel messages Forgive me SORRY.
 

Phyllis P. (389)
Saturday April 21, 2012, 5:34 pm
When a large number of animals are living in homes, trashed with feces and urine, that is unhealthy for humans and animals. Too many to keep up with, is hoarding to me.
 

Gloria Morotti (14)
Saturday April 21, 2012, 7:14 pm
Hoarding is having more animals than one can care for. In today's society, that pretty much means more than one or two.
 

Myron Scott (70)
Saturday April 21, 2012, 8:54 pm
A lot of judgmental nonsense from a few of the commentors. Just LISTEN to what you write: "very very sick!;" "a mental disorder." That's the problem with labels and most of the people - including some Lefists - who use them. It judges based on superficial generalities, not conduct and actual impacts. The issue should be abuse (primarily neglect), not a mere faddish label like "hoarding." Some of you need to consider how readily and recently the psychology and psychiatry professions labeled, for example, homosexuality as a behavioral "disorder" or "disease." Read Thomas Szasz; hell, read Ken Kesey.

And I can personally attest that a one-two animal limit (per person, per household or per adult?) is nonsense. (And I can produce vet bills, food bills, and vet affidavits to prove it.) How about one or two children only, by law (not on environmental grounds but on "abuse" grounds)? Two children, no animals? How about rescuers and their animals? Or would you employ the same rigid, arbitrary numerical test to "prove" that the critters would be better off dead or still abused or feral?

I don't doubt that some people obsess about animals and have more than they can properly care for, and those people need intervention and counseling but NOT hate; not labels. Focus on the abuse, focus on the objectionable conduct, not the personality, and you will accomplish the end you claim to support.

Otherwise, you are no better, cognitively or morally than those cerebrally challenged right wingers we've seen articles about recently, self-righteously labeling everything instead of dealing with reality on a case-by-case basis. Maybe all such people, Right or Left, belong in the nest standard diagnostic manual!

Finally, and worst of all, you stigmatize decent, genuinely animal loving and effective animal keepers, including rescuers, making them prey to every cat or dog hater in the neighborhood. There is such a thing (right wing as it sounds) as political correctness run amok. Unless you think every animal more than the arbitrary one or two would be better off in the nearest hell-yes-we-kill "shelter," drop the God damned labels.
 

Kara C. (15)
Sunday April 22, 2012, 1:15 am
Animal hoarders are real and they are horrible and disturbed people. They are very very different from people who just have a lot of pets as they think there doing the animals a favor while ignoring their basic needs and health, in most cases not even bothering to desex them.

Some people can and do handle lots of animals perfectly well and properly but if they cant name every critter they have got at home off the top of their head or at least the number of critters there is something wrong. Two animal laws are good but should be able to have more if you can prove you can handle more.
 

marie c. (168)
Sunday April 22, 2012, 4:00 am
Hoarding loving caring for God sake what has that got to do with left or right wing
Phyllis P has put it in a nutshell perfectly the rest of us are going off on a tangent including me
Thank you Phyllis green star on the way basic common sense why couldn't the rest of us think like you
 

Kenneth L. (314)
Sunday April 22, 2012, 11:32 am
Actually Myron has put it in a nutshell.
And anybody is perfectly justified in chastising Maggie for calling Maria E 'absolutely disturbed' and 'you need help'. That isn't just 'diaagreeing'. No lynch mob here either. All is subject to opinion and is the bottom line period.
 

Maria Elena Gonzalez (298)
Sunday April 22, 2012, 11:39 am
Sadly, the label is a label, and loneliness and mental health with filth and neglect falling upon the animals is the real thing, we can use it on the real deal, but innocent and caring people, who have the means and bless their hearts, they do help and love and take care of their animals, are being subject to being called hoarders. On TV, you see it constantly and it is now a witch hunt, leading to blame their family problems on their "hoarding", and taking away their pets in an "intervention", conveniently as they put them in a mad house and take over their finances
 

Maria Elena Gonzalez (298)
Sunday April 22, 2012, 11:45 am
In my family, my parents live in a beautiful home, swimming pool, maid, gardener and 9 cats, 7 dogs, birds, whatever they feel needs a home...my 2 brothers talk about them putting them down as hoarders, mind you, both brothers are hunters and only like their dog, which incidentally sleeps outside and has to be a hunting dog. It hurts me that they say this, and act as if my parents were mentally ill
 

Maria Elena Gonzalez (298)
Sunday April 22, 2012, 12:02 pm
There is a blog on this, unfortunately all the comments are in 2 places...this is a comment from Eco M, so true!


Eco M I A MoonWalk Again (946) Friday April 20, 2012, 2:19 am
I wonder why NO one calls farmers horders, and many of them do lots of bad stuff to animals.
 

liz c. (842)
Sunday April 22, 2012, 3:02 pm
Your parents sound like great people that take care of their animals. Sorry to say that your brothers sound like morons-You know that your parents take great care of their animals---so do not let your hunting brothers upset you.....they are the ones with the problem......
 

Jeanne M. (84)
Sunday April 22, 2012, 5:25 pm
When it reaches the point that the person has too many animals to care for, if the animals are obviously suffering from overcrowding, or if they are underfed or ill, then intervention is necessary. Like it or not, it happens.
On the other hand, if my health permitted, I'd take in every stray in the neighbourhood. I have to content myself with feeding them.
 

marie c. (168)
Sunday April 22, 2012, 5:53 pm
Shocking for you of all people to have brothers like that There is a good saying you can choose your friends but you can not choose your family.Maria
IF Myrons statement is in a nut shell I do not know what kind of nut it was certainly a mega giant walnut no offence meant Myron whereas Phyllis put hers in a mini hazelnut shell
For those not familiar with phrase "Putting in a nutshell" (something explained eloquently using very few words

 

marie c. (168)
Sunday April 22, 2012, 6:02 pm
I know what you mean about farmers Maria but they make money out of the animals and I guess that is acceptable to most of the public. Chin up Maria forget these people who call you names you know the truth about yourself and at the end of the day thats all that matters. People have been labeling throughout history even on Care 2 there are little gangs who are labelled so enjoy your darling pussy cats and plough on
 

Maria Elena Gonzalez (298)
Sunday April 22, 2012, 7:42 pm
Marie, you are TOO FUNNY!!! hahahaaa, hazelnut!
 

michelle t. (41)
Sunday April 22, 2012, 7:49 pm
To classify all people who adore animals,have multiple animals and care for them well as hoarders is very wrong and offensive.I know quite a few people who have multipl pets that they have rescued and these animals are very well cared for.Don't label evryone under the same classification.I have 6 fur kids and they are all ex death row dogs and they live very very well.They are everything to me.I am passionate about animal welfare
For every one animal abuser who has many animals and treats them badly there may be100 wonderful people who have multiple well cared for animals.
Thanks Maria for this fabulous article.Give me animals to children ANY DAY!!
 

Gloria Morotti (14)
Sunday April 22, 2012, 8:09 pm
This woman is angry and full of hatred and that does not bode well for her animals. Her post was all in caps and she admits she is "sick." If a person has hatred in her heart, it is passed on to those she "loves" whether she chooses to do so or not. All hatred is counterproductive.
 

Past Member (0)
Monday April 23, 2012, 2:23 am
I don't know what it is with the US to invent one weird condition after another. When I worked as an animal welfare inspector in Germany over 20 years ago, this stupid term had not been invented yet. Yes, sometimes we met people who had lots and lots of animals and they struggled to care for them, so our policy was to help out with food and vet bills rather than take the animals away. Problem solved. Much better than take all the animals away and then kill them because they have a little sniffle here and there or they growl or whatever, so you are left with a very distraught owner and lots of dead animals. Hmmm, sorry don't agree with that.

Often people mean well and then things get out of hand for various reasons. To treat them as criminals or mentally ill is way over the top and I find this very offensive, too.
 

colleen p. (38)
Monday April 23, 2012, 3:48 am
animal hording is a mental disorder, all hording is a disorder. it's some kind of OCD mixed with PST.

 

colleen p. (38)
Monday April 23, 2012, 3:57 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7EPV55qBjE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKfuRefCZ6E

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6StWp-_IJFw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6StWp-_IJFw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LmOOoGVNK8

heros, saints ,and savors
 

Ruth S. (298)
Monday April 23, 2012, 5:57 am
If you can care for the animals I don't see a problem, I had 5 dogs, 3 cats, 8 birds and 2 hamsters all at the same time and they all were healthy and happy!
 

Rebecca Wells (0)
Monday April 23, 2012, 8:36 am
As long as the animals are well cared for, I have no issue... at least they are not in a home where they are being starved or mistreated, or even abandoned and stray.
 

L X (529)
Monday April 23, 2012, 9:35 am
There is a difference between the unsanitary or impractical hoarding of animals, and the beneficial rescuing and neutering of animals while finding at least some of them other homes. There is also a difference between the unsanitary or impractical hoarding of things, and being physically or financially unable to find other places for those things (such as a storage space or the recycling bin, a swap meet, or the trash). If the space becomes unsanitary or non-functional, then it is time for the person in the domicile to take some remedial action and ask for help.
 

Andrea Connelly (94)
Monday April 23, 2012, 9:41 am
Criticizing and labeling is not the answer. In fact it is terribly wrong and unfeeling. We can never know when one of us currently emotionally and mentally stable meets with a challenge that we cannot handle and life could become a nightmare of loneliness, rejection and despair in no time. When that happens we might start acting irrationally and look for solace by surrounding ourselves with creatures who will be appreciative of our company, and unlike a lot of human relations, will give us unconditional love and affection. It is a process, a long road before it becomes another nightmare, that of taking in more and more lives that we may connect with as also rejected by family, friends etc. We now have a deep commitment to these creatures and maybe we are also dependent on them for emotional balance and self esteem, and may not recognize the depth and the enormity of the responsibility we took on trying to mend our hearts and minds by surrounding ourselves with them. I am talking about extreme cases but it can and does happen. When it does to the lonely widow or widower or the little old lady across the street, let us not criticize but see how we can help. A trip to the local SPCA or shelter for spaying and neutering, maybe a little financial support to accomplish that, or as a friend of mine does, buy cat and dog food on sale and deliver it to where it is needed. We could all be Unsung Heroes (Hogan's Heroes) for both people and animals in need. To my mind, these are the kind of deeds that make us Human not the constant criticisms of each others' real or imagined shortcomings.
How about an American or Canadian Idol show that focuses on how positively effect life in general, instead of the constant competition for our own self gratification?
 

marie c. (168)
Monday April 23, 2012, 11:12 am
I hear all of your comments but reading Glorias attack on Maria is also labeling also Myron and Naomis attack on Maggie and so it goes on and on and on
 

Brian M. (202)
Monday April 23, 2012, 12:47 pm
Ultimately, the issue should be animal cruelty and neglect. Other issues might include condition of the location and impact of significant numbers of pets upon the quality of life for neighbors and/or the impact on local property values.

If a number of animals are proven to be well cared for and are in good mental and physical condition, and if the ownership of that number of animals does not negatively impact upon neighbors(such negative impacts would include noise, smell, waste products, and/or unsocialized animal behavior), then perhaps there is no problem. However, this might vary on a case by case basis. Some people might have too many animals with only four pets. Others might be quite fine with twenty.

Neighbors, however, should not have to put up with excess noise or odor. They also shouldn't have to clean up someone else's pet's fecal matter from their yards. Finally, neighbors shouldn't have to put up with unruly animal behavior as a result of someone else's pets straying on to that neighbor's property.

People who own pets, whether one or one hundred, should be completely legally liable for the abuse, mistreatment, and/or neglect of those pets. They should also be liable for any damages or harm that said animals or number of animals causes to neighbors' property.

Most people agree with the idea that there is such a thing as too many children in a family. Each child reduces the quality and quantity of attention, energy, and resources that parents can provide to each child. There comes a point where there are so many children that one can reasonably assume the parents are stretched too thin to really begin to give each child what they need for optimal development and happiness. Thus, the majority of people in our country opt for families with two to three children. Larger families have become increasingly uncommon.

Pets are like children in that they are dependent upon an owner, much like a parent, to care for them. Even in cases of material prosperity where the owner can reasonably tend to the physical needs of each pet, one has to question whether the quality of life and the mental health of the animals suffers when there are more of them than the owner can reasonably attend to in terms of play and other forms of socialization.
 

monka blanke (82)
Monday April 23, 2012, 1:05 pm
Nobody should hoard living beings, just stick to furniture or clothes instead.
 

donald Baumgartner (6)
Monday April 23, 2012, 1:34 pm
LOVE the shows, ALL of them!!!
 

Nancy M. (202)
Monday April 23, 2012, 1:34 pm
There may very well be people who have been branded as being hoarders that really aren't. But I do believe that there really are hoarders out there. The number of animals a person or space can handle may be different for each person/space I have known people with twenty or thirty animals that were well attended and loved.
 

Gloria H. (88)
Monday April 23, 2012, 8:32 pm
If animals arent getting medical attention, feces everywhere..yeah that's abuse. I see nothing wrong with preferring the company of animals over people. Some of the shows hint that grandma would be happier with daughter and grandkids if she gave up her animals. I'm thinking...uh huh, grandma becomes a live in baby sitter. How lucky for daughter! Maybe there is an underlying reason why hoarders are pushing away spouces and family and using animals as an excuse. You choose your pets, family you are stuck with.
 

Billie C. (2)
Monday April 23, 2012, 10:14 pm
you are a hoarder when you keep collecting animals when you can't even care for the ones you have already. if you can't get them vet care, can't keep the house clean for all the poop and pee then you have a problem and it affects the animals. living in nasty dirty conditions are wrong for the animals and the people. animals get sick living in shit. when that happens the authorities need to step in.
 

Tal H. (8)
Tuesday April 24, 2012, 6:33 pm
Hoarding isn't right no matter what you hoard....it's a psychological disease.
 

marie c. (168)
Wednesday April 25, 2012, 4:20 am
The important thing and my intention was to make you smile and I achieved that haha
I actually hoard clothes some things I just can not throw away also shoes haha so I guess so Talya I am also sick. haha
 

marie c. (168)
Wednesday April 25, 2012, 4:21 am
Sorry that comment was for Maria Elena
 

Maria Elena Gonzalez (298)
Wednesday April 25, 2012, 8:53 am
I wonder if people who collect things, such as stamps, rocks and such are mentally ill, too!
 

Kerrie G. (135)
Wednesday April 25, 2012, 12:39 pm
Noted, thanks.
 
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