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'Two-Finger' Test for Rape Needs to End, Experts Say

World  (tags: violence, rape, India, women, rape, humanrights, ethics, crime, death )

- 1968 days ago -
While India has promised swift justice in the case of the woman who died Saturday after a brutal gang rape, human-rights groups say the problem is much thornier than punishing the six men accused in this case.

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Elizabeth M (65)
Sunday December 30, 2012, 1:35 pm
My deepest sympathies to the woman's family. To the six rapists - murderers may you never forget that you took someone's life to satisfy yourselves.
India - wake-up, start treating women with the dignity they deserve!!

Suzanne L (99)
Sunday December 30, 2012, 2:11 pm
TY for posting this Carrie. The 6 perpetrators are charged with murder not rape. The young woman was a 23 yo medical student simply riding on a bus with her male friend who was also dragged off the bus and beaten. The only good thing that has come out of this horrible crime is that there have been massive protests in India and huge numbers of men have joined women in protesting to change the law and protect women.

Vicky P (476)
Sunday December 30, 2012, 3:32 pm
disgusting way to check, they need to jump out of the dark ages and start treating women, half their country with respect.

Carrie B (306)
Sunday December 30, 2012, 3:34 pm
This is something so completely outrageous, we must speak out!

Past Member (0)
Sunday December 30, 2012, 4:44 pm

Maureen C (4)
Sunday December 30, 2012, 11:46 pm
This case has galvanized the people in India to speak out -- very loudly and physically, with mass demonstrations --so there's hope things will change, and this young woman's death will count for something.

Helen Porter (39)
Sunday December 30, 2012, 11:46 pm
Wicked men always blame the woman.

After beating up his girl friend or wife, it is most usual for the man to say, "See what You made me do?"

Obviously, the consciousness of mankind is changing....or they would not even make mention of just another woman who "raped the man".


Robert O (12)
Monday December 31, 2012, 12:36 am
When will this insanity end? Thanks Carrie.

Nimue Michelle Pendragon Gaze (339)
Monday December 31, 2012, 1:43 am
This is despicable! As the educated world knows, the hymen can be broken by vigorous sport or exercise, it doesn't mean the woman has had sex. And that notwithstanding, even if a woman has had sex anytime before a rape, it does not mean she was not raped! What is wrong with these people? Still got the rape mentality, still got the "blame the victim" attitude, anything so a man is not blamed for the crime he has committed. Rape is a crime. Pretending it isn't is ignorant and backward. What happened to men protecting women? What happened to caring for women? Treat women with respect, it's what they deserve.

Gloria picchetti (304)
Monday December 31, 2012, 2:50 am
The "test" is creepy and ignorant.

Veronique L (209)
Monday December 31, 2012, 4:00 am
This is revolting!

Carol H (229)
Monday December 31, 2012, 4:04 am
insane test!!

LucyKaleido ScopeEyes (82)
Monday December 31, 2012, 4:28 am
Suzanne L has not been reading press accounts of this atrocity or even the Wall St Journal article here - otherwise, she would know that the young medical student & her boyfriend were not "dragged off the bus" for the beatings.

The woman's ordeal took place on a moving bus, empty except for the couple, the bus driver & the 6 hoodlums: She & her boyfriend were beaten, she "was gang raped for over an hour on a moving chartered bus" and other accounts I have read also note that the bus went by police stations, for example, without ever stopping, while the atrocity was going on. That's why the bus driver was initially arrested, too, although I haven't found out if he is still in custody.

Once the gang was through with them, they threw them off the bus.

It seems that blaming rape on the woman has been a tactic used in every society. Whether the awful 'two-finger' test used in India, the attempt to prove that the sex was consensual, or the 'she was asking for it' approach that was often used as a defense, pointing to provocative clothing or short skirts, male-dominated societies have long sought ways to blame rape victims and successfully acquit the men.

I do hope that the angry demonstrations in India will put an end to this practice & this attitude. The WSJ article mentions another case which I'd read about in the Guardian, that of a 17-yr-old girl alleging gang rape in Punjab state, who had killed herself after police refused to register the case. Local media had reported on it last week, while the medical student was still in critical condition. Two of the officers involved in that tragedy have been sacked & another suspended! ( Good sign.

However, the Guardian reports that "India: hundreds of men accused of sexual violence stand in elections" (run for election), saying "Figures show dozens facing criminal investigations for assault and other charges campaigning for national assembly" ! Now THAT is pretty incredible!

John B (185)
Monday December 31, 2012, 5:15 am
Thanks Carrie for the link to the article by Tom Wright. This is a shamefully dangerous situation, not only in India but worldwide and needs to be addressed by every government and the UN. Read and noted.

Lindsay K (6)
Monday December 31, 2012, 5:39 am
Certainly this test must end!

Anton Macio Madison Sr. (0)
Monday December 31, 2012, 7:32 am

Nancy M (197)
Monday December 31, 2012, 8:40 am
That test is truly appalling and totally unreal.

Winn A (179)
Monday December 31, 2012, 12:20 pm
This test must stop NOW!

James Maynard (84)
Monday December 31, 2012, 12:23 pm
That hideous "test" needs to be expunged
as quickly as possible and an information
campaign launched that rape is wrong.

Mary Donnelly (47)
Monday December 31, 2012, 12:36 pm
One of the many reforms needed in India, but changed cultural attitudes are essential to any changes in behaviours.

Dianna M (16)
Monday December 31, 2012, 12:45 pm
I'm surprised that more legislatures in this country aren't trying to pass the "two-finger test" given all the recent negative attention to women's rights and women's health issues. After all, this is the country where an 11-year-old was gang-raped, and the defense attorney said she was "Like the spider and the fly. Wasn't she saying, 'Come into my parlor, said the spider to the fly?'" And this is the country where the female judge told the woman who was groped in a bar, "If you wouldn’t have been there that night, none of this would have happened to you.”

It's still amazing to me how often the victim "had it coming"--especially if the victim is a woman.

Kathlene Lentz (30)
Monday December 31, 2012, 1:24 pm
In a so-called civilized country, this is shameful. And even more shameful is the attitude in THIS country about rape these days. In a time when rape victims should be taken seriously and protected, politicians and taking us backward instead of forward. I hope and pray that the attitudes of men all over the world change--swiftly--to ones where victims are treated as victims instead of as wrong-doers.

Diane K (134)
Monday December 31, 2012, 1:26 pm
Not fair to these women.

Jeanne M (84)
Monday December 31, 2012, 2:41 pm
The increasing 'blame the victim' trend is disgusting.

Isabelle J (81)
Monday December 31, 2012, 3:21 pm
This is insane !

Marie Therese Hanulak (30)
Monday December 31, 2012, 4:25 pm
In a misogynic society,( and there are so many) women don't count for much.
Even the laws are against them.
I hope public pressure will seal the fate of this pack of blood thirsty creatures. They need to die.

janet f (29)
Monday December 31, 2012, 4:39 pm
Why aren't they charging the asshole who was driving the bus for over an hour while they were raping her also? That is one f**ked up misogynistic society.

Linda P (0)
Monday December 31, 2012, 4:49 pm
This is crazy, where do they come up with these insane things, "two fingers."I hope pressure from the public will help take care of those scums that murdered this beautiful young woman. The laws need to change to protect and respect woman.

Naoko i (264)
Monday December 31, 2012, 7:42 pm
I wholeheartedly agree with Nimue. Woman's previous sexual behavoir/conduct has nothing to do with being raped.

Carrie B (306)
Monday December 31, 2012, 7:45 pm
This is all so disgusting and sad!

Nimue Michelle Pendragon Gaze (339)
Monday December 31, 2012, 8:00 pm
Thank you for the green star Naoko, I sent you one back.

Aletta Kraan (146)
Monday December 31, 2012, 8:13 pm
Just terrible !!

Jennifer Ward (40)
Monday December 31, 2012, 8:51 pm
This sort of thing would never happen in Pakistan- they execute the victims there- so no crime commited.

Colleen L (3)
Monday December 31, 2012, 10:21 pm
How disgusting. I wish they'd do like Phyllis ' country does and execute these creeps. Thanks Carrie

Nola g (5)
Monday December 31, 2012, 10:45 pm
Wow, I cant believe that something like that really happens. Why do so many men hate women.

Patricia N (9)
Tuesday January 1, 2013, 1:27 am
Blaming the woman still happens sometimes in Canada and U.S.. In another 1,000 years maybe all the world will be civilized.

jaya Sinha (26)
Tuesday January 1, 2013, 2:58 am
Incredible India!

Lynne Buckley (0)
Tuesday January 1, 2013, 7:12 am
This test is so ignorant and invasive to women who have been raped. All rapists need to be punished severely.

Lillian Martin (1)
Tuesday January 1, 2013, 8:16 am
What a backward thinking country India is. The women should all revolt and do nothing for the men.

Les M (3)
Tuesday January 1, 2013, 9:16 am
where did these doctors get their medical training and why aren't they something to the government?

Gloria H (88)
Tuesday January 1, 2013, 4:00 pm
Sounds like backwards 'blame the woman" Republicans live in India too! After being raped, wouldn't the hymen be broken (torn) in the rape therefore any woman with a torn hymen would be quilty of pre rape activity, thus getting the pos off the hook.
if men had hymens....this nonsense would be a non-tissue issue.

David Anderson (72)
Wednesday January 2, 2013, 7:47 pm
This proves that there is no bottom limit on barbarism.

Melania P (122)
Thursday January 3, 2013, 4:00 pm
Sick bastards deserve to be killed! Scum like that do not deserve to live and use this planet´s resources!!!
My sympathies for her family, I hope she did not die in vain!!!

Susanne R (235)
Sunday January 6, 2013, 12:27 am
Those who accept the "two finger test" deserve the "one finger salute." Misogyny and ignorance are a dangerous combination.
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