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Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu Draws Fire From All Sides Over Settlements

World  (tags: world, middle-east, Israel, Palestine, HumanRights, freedoms, government, violence, news, ethics )

- 1602 days ago -
Comments by Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu at the World Economic Forum make it clear he is against the establishment of a Palestinian state, chief Palestinian negotiator Saeb Erakat has said.

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Sheila D (194)
Monday January 27, 2014, 12:12 pm
Israel, aka Netanyahu, doesn't want wants the Palestinians truce, no sharing the land.

Justin Vale (13)
Monday January 27, 2014, 12:28 pm
it doesn't really matter, al qaeda will handle the settlements. if assad falls the jihadist will pour into jordan and from there into the west bank. any israeli caught on the the wrong side of the wall will face a heinous death.
the settlements will be taken down and they will flee to the safety of the wall.

. (0)
Monday January 27, 2014, 1:56 pm
Neither side wants to acknowledge the other. Now, where do negociations go from here?

Birgit W (160)
Monday January 27, 2014, 2:31 pm
I feel very sorry for all Palestinians, thanks.

Past Member (0)
Monday January 27, 2014, 3:49 pm
He's a GOON+a NAZI. Despicable flea. He should be in jail 4 his atrocities. Thx Carrie

Stephen Brian (23)
Monday January 27, 2014, 11:38 pm
I think Netanyahu deserves some kind of medal for this. He finally had the guts to suggest something without which peace between Israel and an independent Palestinian state would be totally impossible.

Without settlements in Palestinian territory, here is exactly how relations between the two countries would proceed, assuming absolutely everything else works.

Upon agreement, borders and peace are established with land-swaps in accordance with current demographics. There are some Palestinian communities along the border left within Israel, but that is to be expected as they are minorities within larger communities.

With regular migration, differences in birth-rates, and the tendency of ethnic groups to cluster geographically, Palestinians within Israel produce small enclaves in which they are local majorities. Some of these will be along the border.

These ones, wanting to live in a Palestinian state but unwilling to move, become irridentists. This is actually a fairly common thing, communities along such a border wanting to separate from a country for the purpose of joining another, seen many times in Europe and elsewhere. The usual reason why these groups usually go nowhere is that they receive no support from their supported country's government and have no legal precedent with which to demand a change in the border.

The reason for the lack of legal support is that borders are traditionally drawn by war, not demographics. Obviously, the legal precedent would be there, in this case. The only remaining question is whether they would receive support from the leaders of a Palestinian state. Normally, such support is not given because opening up negotiation of the border opens it both ways, and the irridentists' host-country can demand areas where there are significant populations of its people in a land-swap. Now I hop you see the problem: With Palestinian communities allowed to live in Israel and no significant Jewish communities allowed in a Palestinian state, the symmetry is broken and the Palestinian leaders would have little reason to refrain from demanding more territory.

Eventually, this will cause Israel to see the whole thing as a takeover-attempt, leading to one of two things: Either Israel would then expel its Palestinian population (extremely unlikely), with mistreatment almost certainly leading to war, or it would simply destroy the Palestinian state and reoccupy the territories in question. Either way, the two-state solution fails.

Stephen Brian (23)
Monday January 27, 2014, 11:46 pm
I should probably point out why I am so confident that many Palestinians would want to live in a Palestinian state, but be unwilling to move: Palestinian nationalism is at the core of Palestinian culture. It is almost impossible to b Palestinian without wanting Palestinian self-rule. However, for multiple cultural reasons relating to tribalism, the structure of politics, individual freedoms, and education, Jews run a country a whole lot better and produce much better living-conditions.

Hi Justin :)

I strongly doubt that al Qaeda would be able to handle the settlements. Some of the cultural differences I mentioned above also produce vastly superior military forces. (Arab cultures actually produce the world's worst armies, and I can explain why if you want.) Al qaeda is effective against a civilian population, but really cannot hope to function against one that would receive the support that Israel would provide should the settlements be endangered.

(This is actually another argument for leaving them in place in a Palestinian state. They would be canaries in case Palestinians become as religiously intolerant as some other states in the region, and persecution of them would likely be met by the IDF.)

Past Member (0)
Tuesday January 28, 2014, 8:42 am

Arabs in Israel REFUSED to have their towns be given to the future Palestinian Arab state. Yes, despite all the cat calls of "Israeli Apartheid" by their leaders, they prefer to live in a Jewish state, than in Palestinian Arab one.

Stephen Brian (23)
Tuesday January 28, 2014, 11:00 am
Hi Bob :)

Which Arabs refused? From what I understand, there are two politically and culturally distinct groups of Israeli Arabs, those who identify as Israeli (and are generally culturally Western) and those who identify as Palestinian. With proportional representation in Israeli elections, slightly above-average turnout (56% to 50%) and 20% of the population, we can estimate that Arabs decided ~26 out of 120 seats (20%). Balad, the UAL, and Ta'al are Arab parties supporting Palestinian nationalism. Together, they hold 7 seats. That puts Palestinian Israeli Arabs at a bit over a quarter of all Israeli Arabs.

I can totally understand why Arab communities would have refused to be in a Palestinian state in general, but an ethnic group that includes 5% of the Israeli population is definitely enough to produce the problematic local majorities in border-towns, especially with far-above-average birth-rates. Really, I suspect the Palestinian component of Israeli Arabs to be much higher: Those who do not consider a regime (rather than just the party in power) to be legitimate tend, I understand, to do things like boycott votes, so the non-voting members of the Arab minority may have a much higher proportion of Palestinians.

Elizabeth M (65)
Wednesday January 29, 2014, 4:36 pm
Thanks for sharing Carrie. Can not add anything that has not already been said except I have never trusted Netanyahu.
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