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'Dear American Jewish Community, It's Time to Talk About Zionism


Society & Culture  (tags: American Jews, Zionism, Israel, Palestine, dishonesty, ethics, human rights, freedoms, society, culture, death, politics, sadness, world, violence )

Carrie
- 44 days ago - mondoweiss.net
Its time for us to talk. I know for many of you that you still don't want to talk - many of you have spent the last few weeks effectively covering your ears and eyes, endlessly repeating IDF talking points, as if they will magically make the reality...



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Comments

Carrie B. (301)
Saturday August 2, 2014, 5:51 am
TEXT OF ARTICLE:

Dear American Jewish Community,

Its time for us to talk. I know for many of you that you still don’t want to talk – many of you have spent the last few weeks effectively covering your ears and eyes, endlessly repeating IDF talking points, as if they will magically make the reality disappear – but if there was ever a time to take the plunge and really look in the mirror at where we have gotten ourselves, this is the time. It’s time for us to talk about Israel, it’s time to talk about Zionism.

Those of us, those Jews who have spoken out against Israel’s inhumane actions or Zionism’s warped nationalistic beliefs, have never been well received within our community. When we have argued for human rights and international law, we have been ostracized and excluded from all aspects of mainstream Jewish life. When we have argued against an exclusionary, segregationist regime, we have been attacked with the most vicious of slanders; “self-hating Jews,” “Nazi collaborators,” and worse. When we have tried to stand up against colonialist violence and occupations, we have been met with angry rejection from our closest friends and family. When we have tried to reaffirm the values that Palestinians are human beings, deserving of equal rights and a future with dignity, we have been met with the full force of an incredibly powerful and well-funded Pro-Israel public relations machine. A climate of neo-McCarthyism has reigned within side the Jewish community stifling all debate, dissent and free thought on the issues of Israel, Palestine and Zionism. But its time for all of that to end.

I understand that the last few weeks may have been hard for you. From a young age we all have been raised – indoctrinated even – on Pro-Israel ideology. Every facet of our Jewish life has been infected with Zionism, from our youth groups, to our synagogues, to our Hebrew schools, to our family Seders. “The world hates us, Israel protects us, there we are free and safe and democratic”– we’ve come to believe. But in the last few weeks we have seen that supposed progressive, freedom loving, democratic Israel unmask itself before the whole world as a lynch mob society. We American Jews have been tricked into projecting all of our hopes and insecurities onto Israel, and to have those beautiful dreams and illusions shattered so brutally can be difficult. But for all the emotional pain we may be going through in seeing our Star of David pasted on the bombs being dropped on innocent civilians, it’s nothing compared to the pain being felt by those civilians.

Palestinians have suffered greatly at our hands. They have been violently forced from their land and homes to appease the Holocaust guilt of Europe and the greed of Zionist colonists. They have been forced to live under an openly Jim Crow, discriminatory and segregationist “Jewish Only” apartheid state. And the whole process has become endemic in its repetition, with wave after wave after wave of land theft, oppression, segregation and violence. The Nakba has been made into a continuous, never ending, 66-year-old ongoing catastrophe. Palestinians have been bombed, shot, detained, brutalized, tortured, dehumanized, occupied, and worse. All in our name.

We Jews have a lot of blood on our hands, we have been made complicit in these inhuman acts, and we have a responsibility now to do something about it. We need to rethink what “Never Again” really means; does it mean for us “Never Again for Jews Only,” or does it mean “Never Again For Everyone”?

I am not asking or expecting you, the whole American Jewish community, to renounce everything you have been taught to believe overnight, just yet. But I am asking and expecting you to open your minds a little, to start questioning what you have been taught. The Pro-Israel bias in our community has corrupted and stifled open free discourse for far too long. The exclusion of any dissenting Jewish opinion outside of the most narrow of ultra-Zionism has led our people into a cul-de-sac of intellectual dishonesty, moral poverty and political thuggery, where questioning is discouraged and obedience is rewarded. This must come to end, now, if we are to redeem ourselves and pave a path for the future.

All I ask is the following; that you reopen our community to dissenting opinion, that you open up every synagogue, every Jewish community center, every Hillel, every Hebrew School, to a free debate and discussion on Israel, Palestine and the core beliefs of Zionism. I and others like me, want to make our case to you, directly, as Jews to Jews, on why the Palestinians deserve our solidarity, on why Israeli militarism must be opposed, on why the “Jewish State” of Israel necessarily leads to apartheid, and on why the nationalistic and supremacist beliefs of Zionism have led to the corruption of our people with the sins of racism and colonialism.

I don’t expect a warm reception. But I do expect at least a moment of your time, and a part of your attention. You owe it to yourself, to your people, to your children, and to all Palestinians, to enter into this discussion with open minds and open hearts and start confronting the hard questions. Please help us in taking this moment and reassess who we are, what we have done, and where we want to go from here.

I look forward to the discussions ahead.

Sincerely,
Benjamin Silverman
 

Cal Mendelsohn (990)
Saturday August 2, 2014, 6:36 am
Carrie, ther is nointellectual honesty in denying the Jewish people a homeland any more than another people. That is what some of the anti+Israel folks are saying and I hope that you are NOT one of them. There is either human rihgts including the right of self-determination, which I think is a human right for EVERYONE AND EVERY PEOPLE , or there are no human rights for anyone.

Zionism is the philosophy and active force of fulfilling the right of the Jewish people to a homeland. It is very simple at its core and extremists of all sorts have for decades confused and misrepresented this for their own ends. I count amongst them both Jewish and non-Jewish extremists.

I am proud to be a Zionist ,Carrie ,but not proud of all of the actions taken by the Israel government in every instance. This is true just as I am not proud of the treatment of native Americans during the last two centuries and more in the USA or of other indigenous people by their governments--no more and no less. The jewish people have created and deserve a secure homelandjust asmuch any people. If you feel differently you must examine your basic prejudices on this. Time to face this question head-on for those who so easily criticize every move the Israel government makes.

BTW to your original question, I believe that there is a dialogue going on within the American Jewish community on Israel and the Palestinians and that there is a variety of thought on this. Thanks for hearing me out a bit.
 

Kathleen Mireault (50)
Saturday August 2, 2014, 8:43 am
Noted. Thanks for posting, Carrie. Have to admit that i find "Zionism" confusing, at best. However, Israeli treatment of Palestinians has been and continues to be horriffic to the nth degree. It must stop!
 

Roberto M. (56)
Saturday August 2, 2014, 9:53 am
http://townhall.com/columnists/dennisprager/2006/07/18/the_middle_east_conflict_is_hard_to_solve_but_easy_to_explain/page/full

I invite all you people who claim that Israel is such a horrible nation to think a little about the nature of this conflict. And to honestly ask yourself this simple set of questions:
1) If Israel was to lay down arms, and stop defending itself in any way. What would happen to Israel and the Jewish people in that region?
2) If the Palestinians were to lay down arms, and no longer defend themselves in any way. What would happen to the Palestinian people in that region?
 

Lois Jordan (55)
Saturday August 2, 2014, 3:33 pm
Noted. Thanks for posting this very brave message, Carrie. Jewish Voice for Peace and some other Jewish groups are for the 2-state solution and also are against the violence. I've signed many petitions for them. I am so glad to see this "discussion" take place by the very people who should not be marching lock-step in hatred and violence. It's way past time to note who is profiting monetarily from this. Who has the biggest financial investments in those "War Machine" corporations?
 

Mitchell D. (131)
Saturday August 2, 2014, 6:38 pm
If this is not a crazy situation, I do not know what is.
Absent the Holocaust, would Israel have been established? There were Zionists earlier than WWII, to my knowledge, but we can't go back and see the universe in another iteration.
Were those known as the Palestinians forcibly removed from their home territory, in the creation of Israel? I believe so,
From my perspective, then, the situation was created with the seeds of its own crisis at birth. I have been upset with the Israeli annexation of more and more Palestinian land. What might the Israelis have though would be the eventual response?
But, at this time, I believe that Roberto's 2 questions take us to the crux of the matter of the moment. I have no doubt that we would see a repeat of the Munich Olympic atrocity, on steroids.
I can sympathize with Mr. Silverman's point of view, however.
 

Alfred Donovan (46)
Sunday August 3, 2014, 1:52 am
Noted
 

Kenny W. (7)
Sunday August 3, 2014, 6:42 am
Message from Israel "It's OK to kill the hostages", especially if they're not your kind. If Hamas was embedded in Tel aviv, do you really think they're actions would be the same??? Since when can you pin-point accuracy with tank and mortar shells????
 

Alexa R. (333)
Sunday August 3, 2014, 12:14 pm
I am a Zionist, a proud Muslim Zionist, and I love Israel, but this was not always the case. In fact, for many years I was quite the extreme opposite. I experienced the high levels of anti-Semitism and anti-Israel activity taking place on British university campuses, because I was the anti-Semitic, anti-Israel activist.

Growing up in the Muslim community in the UK I was exposed to materials and opinions at best condemning Israel, painting Jews as usurpers and murderers, and at worse calling for the wholesale destruction of the "Zionist Entity" and all Jews. In short, there was no accommodating a Jewish State in the Middle East.
Hating Israel
The new anti-Semitism / Moshe Dann
Op-ed: Anti-Israel campaign identifies Jews as immoral, Jewish state as historical fraud
Full Story

To grow up around this constant barrage of hatred directed at Israel has a massive effect on an individual’s own opinions. More disturbingly, many of these people weren’t radical or extreme, but when it was about Israel the most vicious of rhetoric poured out, coupled with the casual anti-Semitism that seemed too prevalent, when the phrase "stop being a Jew" used as an insult.

My father, however, was much more brazen in his hatred, boasting of how Adolf Hitler was a hero, his only failing being that he didn't kill enough Jews.

By the time I had reached 18 I was completely indoctrinated to the fold of radical Islamism. My hate for Israel and for the Jews was fuelled by images of death and destruction, set to the backdrop of Arabic melodies about Jihad and speeches of Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah or Osama Bin Laden.

These views were reinforced when I attended Nakba Day rallies, where speakers predicted Israel's demise as Hezbollah flags were waved proudly in the centre of London.

The Case for Israel
Was there a case for Israel? In my mind, of course not, there was no shadow of doubt. Even the most moderate clerics I came across refused to condemn terrorism against Israel as unjustified; the Jews must obviously deserve it, I believed.

So what changed? How could I go from all this hatred to the great love for and affinity with Israel and the Jewish people? I found myself in the Israel and Palestine section of a local bookstore and picked up a copy of Alan Dershowitz’s The Case for Israel. Given my worldview, the Jews and Americans controlled the media, so after brief look at the back, I scoffed thinking "vile Zionist propaganda."

I did, however, decide to buy it, content that I would shortly be deconstructing this propaganda piece, showing that Israel had no case and claiming my findings as a personal victory for the Palestinian cause.



Hafeez in Israel in a visit that changed his life

As I read Dershowitz’s arguments and deconstruction of many lies I saw as unquestionable truths, I searched despairingly for counter arguments, but found more hollow rhetoric that I’d believed for many years. I felt a real crisis of conscience, and thus began a period of unbiased research. Up until that point I had not been exposed to anything remotely positive about Israel.

Now, I didn't know what to believe. I'd blindly followed others for so long, yet here I was questioning whether I had been wrong. I reached a point where I felt I had no other choice but to see Israel for myself; only that way I’d really know the truth. At the risk of sounding cliché, it was a life-changing visit.

No apartheid state
I did not encounter an apartheid racist state, but rather, quite the opposite. I was confronted by synagogues, mosques and churches, by Jews and Arabs living together, by minorities playing huge parts in all areas of Israeli life, from the military to the judiciary. It was shocking and eye-opening. This wasn't the evil Zionist Israel that I had been told about.

After much soul searching, I knew what I had once believed was wrong. I had been confronted with the truth and had to accept it. But I had a bigger question to confront, what now? I’d for years campaigned against Israel, but now I knew the truth.

The choice was obvious: I had to stand with Israel, with this tiny nation, free, democratic, making huge strides in medicine, research and development, yet the victim of the same lies and hatred that nearly consumed me.

Doing this is not easy and that’s something that has become very obvious. I have faced hostility from my own community and even some within the Jewish community in the UK, but that’s the reality of standing up for Israel in Europe today. It is not easy, and that’s what makes it so necessary.

This isn’t about religion and politics; it’s about the truth.

When it comes to Israel, the truth is not being heard, the ranks of those filed with blind hatred continue to swell, yet many have not been exposed to the reality, away from the empty rhetoric and politically charged slogans they are so fond of.


We can change this situation but we need to be strong and united. Israel is not just a Jewish issue - it’s about freedom, human rights and democracy, all the values that Western nations cherish. It’s also about trying to be a light among nations.

Israel’s international humanitarian aid work speaks for itself, but if we don’t get the message out there, no one will. We don’t have to be head-bowed apologists leading with :Israel’s not perfect…" - we should never be afraid to say: I am a Zionist and I’m proud. I stand with Israel. Now I ask, will you do that?

Kasim Hafeez is a British Muslim and former Islamist who is now a proud Zionist and stands with Israel. He runs www.theisraelcampaign.org and has a blog on this site. He is also on the advisory board of StandWithUs in the UK and recently completed a university speaking tour
 

Stevie A. (10)
Sunday August 3, 2014, 12:17 pm
Extremely troubling. Israel was created to assuage centuries-old xian guilt after WWII. Land was taken from Palestinians. Since then Israel has expanded “its" territory illegally. They cannot be in the right as long as they are occupying Palestinians land.
 

Alexa R. (333)
Sunday August 3, 2014, 12:26 pm
I've met Kasim Hafeez, he's a very intelligent, eloquent person who thinks for himself, which is evident in his debates, and I'm proud to call him a fellow Zionist.

Like you too Cal, I'm a Zionist. I'm a Jewish Israeli Zionist. We Zionists come in all shapes and forms and it is rather naive and two-dimensional to blanket us Zionists
all together in your blind hatred.
 

Alexa R. (333)
Sunday August 3, 2014, 12:32 pm
Read history Stevie, then you would see that what is truly troubling is there are so many believing and not knowing that your comment is all a bunch of lies .. People need to truly read up history for themselves and not just swallow what the media feeds them ..
 

Carrie B. (301)
Sunday August 3, 2014, 3:26 pm
History is showing the true intentions of Israel and their land grabbing tactics as well as the genocide of the Palestinian people. Stevie is correct.
 

Carrie B. (301)
Sunday August 3, 2014, 3:30 pm
Alexa, your hateful attacks on all who do not believe in your one sided Zionist feelings of superiority only prove the points so many of us are trying to make. Keep it up and you will gain many more to the cause of Palestine and it's suffering people.
 

Kate Kenner (200)
Sunday August 3, 2014, 4:19 pm
Does anyone ever think about the fact that it was not Jews who till the land from the Palestinians but the UN? In 1948 they voted and they ayes said that Israel should be created. It was and is necessary. Darn, there is even a plant called the Wandering Jew. Jews had bee wandering for so many years, decades, centuries. Do I think everything Israel does is good? Hell no,but I do think it has the right to exist. The English, in the beginning, were more on the side of the Palestinians. I think it was more against the new Israelis than alive for Palestine. The Un did not talk to them about how it could be best done but just took the land and Israel has paid for their mistake ever since. I believe the Palestinians must have respect and rights and land. right wingers should be ignored instead of allowed to incite violence every time something happens or a truce is near. Retribution is not the answer but, as some are trying to do, seeing each other as people who just want a home and respect.Simple maybe but they have to start somewhere.
 

Alexa R. (333)
Sunday August 3, 2014, 4:42 pm
For over 3000 there has been an uninterrupted Jewish presence in Israel, sometimes more in number, sometimes less, but the land of Israrl had not been Judenrein for over 3000 years .. It is only since 2005 that Hamas demanded for Gaza to be 100% Judenrein, there had now for 9 years been no Jews at all in Gaza .. this is the problem .. Look at Israel where Arabs, Palestinians, Jews and anybody else live in peace and prosperity .. Israrl thought that if it agrees to Hamas demand to remove all Jewish people living in Gaza in exchange for peace, that Hamas would be content and stick to the deal .. Alas .. It was only to build terror tunnels in secret ..
 

Alexa R. (333)
Sunday August 3, 2014, 4:44 pm
Oops, typo .. Should read Israel ..
 

marie c. (168)
Sunday August 3, 2014, 4:57 pm
noted
 

Bonnie Lynn M. (1)
Sunday August 3, 2014, 7:29 pm
Thank you
 

Roberto M. (56)
Sunday August 3, 2014, 10:35 pm
Carrie, I am afraid it is YOUR hateful attacks on the Jewish people and you one sided hatred of Jews that is the problem. It becoming clearer and clearer to me that you have a deep seated hatred for the Jewish people. You want to deny them their homeland. You make up things up and and attribute things to Israel that have never occurred. You have put on your blinders and decided to be on the side of Terrorist who would indeed commit genocide of the Jewish people on a massive scale if ever given then chance. Your hateful rhetoric is becoming more and more anti-Jew. Supporting Hamas is a fools errand, it does not help the Palestinian people to support a terrorist group, who savages the very people they pretend to protect. Your hatred of Jews has gone so deep, that you will take the side of a terrorist, over that of a recognized democratically elected government. I can no longer be friends with you. I know you do not care. But enough is enough. Anti-semitism is on the rise. And people like you are the reason why.
 

Maria Teresa Schollhorn (44)
Monday August 4, 2014, 3:18 am
Thanks Carrie for the article.
 

Dimitris Dallis (2)
Monday August 4, 2014, 4:40 am
Bloody borders...of any kind... - yes, even mine :)
 

Lloyd H. (46)
Monday August 4, 2014, 7:37 am
Well you have to give the Zionists points for masters of double speak. There is not now nor has there ever been another Nation required to "acknowledge the right of another country to exist. Not a single Member Nation of the UN has ever been required to acknowledge the right of every other Member Nation to exist. The USA has never recognized the right of Israel to exist nor has Israel recognized the right of the USA to exist.
And God Knows that Israel has never and steadfastly refuses to recognize Palestine's right to exist. And the concept of a 'right to exist" for Nations have never been part of International Relations except as a special demand of Israel for Palestine and only Palestine. Were all of the nations with Israeli Embassies required to recognize Israel's right to exist, that would be a big fat No.
 

Evanola Davis (68)
Monday August 4, 2014, 9:20 am
Noted....maybe it would be better if no one lived in or claimed ownership of the Gaza Strip....maybe nobody deserves the right to be there.....just sayin.......
 

Jane H. (134)
Monday August 4, 2014, 11:40 am
I feel for both Israel and Palestine---it is so difficult to decide--if one must---it is so confusing and seems all tangled up, but I thought the article Carrie presented was reasonable, not at all outside the pale. And I tend to go along with it. The fear in saying this is that somehow I will be accused of anti-Semitism.
 

Carrie B. (301)
Monday August 4, 2014, 12:35 pm
I have no hatred for the Jewish people, but I do hate the acts committed by the Israeli government and IDF. What strikes me as most telling when reading all of these comments is the complete absence of conscience in regard to the atrocities being committed by Israel and the lack of compassion for the people of Gaza.
 

Roberto M. (56)
Monday August 4, 2014, 10:55 pm
And what of your compassion for The Israeli people Carrie? I see a complete lack of compassion for them from you. You basically post articles that call for the destruction of the Israeli people, everything that they have built, and the only home many of them have known, yet you claim you do not hate the Jewish people. I am sorry, I don't buy it.
The deaths of so many innocent people is abhorrent to everybody. There is NOT ONE person who rejoices in the deaths of innocents. Not even the Israeli government you so love to equate with evil. But you have yet to accept Hamas's culpability in those deaths. You have NEVER posted one thing that casts aspersions on the terrorist organization that is Hamas. IN fact, you seem to support their efforts. And thus, by association, you in effect support the killing of Innocent Palestinians. There is no doubt that Hamas has committed war crimes and used human shields, and thus are directly responsible for those civilian deaths.
 

Carrie B. (301)
Tuesday August 5, 2014, 12:38 pm
The articles I post do not call for the destruction of Israel ~ they point out the destruction of Gaza and the Palestinian people by Israel. There is a marked difference. Everyone knows and has known for many years that Hamas is a terrorist organization ~ now everyone is learning the Israeli government and military is no better. They too are terrorists.
 

Roberto M. (56)
Tuesday August 5, 2014, 12:55 pm
This very article is essentially calling for the destruction of Israel as a legitimate State. If you cannot comprehend what you are posting, then maybe you shouldn't be posting it.

"...on why the “Jewish State” of Israel necessarily leads to apartheid, and on why the nationalistic and supremacist beliefs of Zionism have led to the corruption of our people with the sins of racism and colonialism. "

Please explain what remedy there is for the above, OTHER than the dissolution of the "Jewish State", in other words, the dissolution of Israel? This is from this very article. Shall I mine the depths of the other articles you have posted for similar statements?

If the Israeli government is terrorist then so is the government of the USA, and practically every other western democracy. Everyone has known that Hamas is a terrorist organization, yet YOU do not call for their dissolution. YOU do not call for the Palestinian people to throw off the yoke of the terrorist group Hamas. YOU justify the evil done one one side, by claiming the OTHER is MORE evil. You count bodies, and point fingers. There can be no peace in Gaza as long as a terrorist group is in charge. NO country in the worls would tolerate it. Yet you DEMAND that Israel do this? Naive in the extreme.

The Palestinian people would be better served to throw off the evil yoke of Hamas and join those who seek peace. Negotiate for Peace. Negotiate for a two-state solution, denounce the terrorists.

I grieve for ALL the lost lives on both sides. For all the lost opportunities. But I will NEVER side with a terrorist group who publicly states their goal is the Genocide of a people.
 

Carrie B. (301)
Tuesday August 5, 2014, 5:06 pm
Recognizing the rights of Palestine and it's legitimate right to have a separate and free state is not calling for the destruction of Israel. At this point in time Hamas is not behaving any differently than the Israeli government and military ~ does that mean the Israeli government should be dissolved? You are advocating a double standard where Israel is immune to any of its many violations of human rights and moral behavior. They should all be held to the same standard. Israel should not be an entitled state because of what happened to Jews in Europe during WWII. I feel sadness for what they endured, but I do not feel guilt nor do I think they are entitled to do onto others what was done to them. Perhaps it is time for the world to start holding Israel accountable for its actions instead of turning their collective heads out of guilt and the fear of being called anti-Semitic.
 

Roberto M. (56)
Tuesday August 5, 2014, 8:15 pm
Carrie, Do you even read the stuff you write? Equating the actions of the Israeli government to that of Hamas is utter insanity. Does The Israeli government use human shields? Does the Israeli government threaten their own citizens? Does the Israeli government deprive its population of food, shelter and economic development in order to build tunnels for war and rockets? Get real! your extreme hatred for the Jewish people has blinded your reason.
You also appear to have forgotten the History of the area. The Palestinians were given the same ability to form their own State as Israel. They opted to wage war instead. They have been belligerent from day one.
There have been many times when a two State solution has been in negotiation. The Palestinian leaders backed out every time.They appear to NOT want peace. They want one thing, the destruction of Israel and the Jewish people. It is in their charter.
It will NEVER happen.
The Palestinians have squandered decades in a vain attempt to destroy Israel. Think of how vibrant a country they could have, if instead, they had decided to live in peace and concentrate on economic development.
 

Carrie B. (301)
Tuesday August 5, 2014, 8:43 pm
"They want one thing, the destruction of Israel and the Jewish people. It is in their charter." That sounds like bigotry to me.

Roberto, your hatred of the Palestinian people has blinded you to the reality of Israel's continued oppression of Gaza. You don't see the truth because it does not fit in to your dialogue of "Israel and Israelis are superior".

Attacking me personally because I post articles ~ from a variety of news sources ~ which show the complete lack of humanity of Israel, ~ serves no purpose except to make you feel better. It does not change the facts of what Israel has done, and the fact that the world is finally speaking out against Israeli atrocities. Be angry , but be angry with Israel for what they have done to your illusion of them ~ not me and not all who dare to speak out in defense of Palestinian suffering. And yes, Israel is no better than Hamas in their behavior. Perhaps they are even worse.
 

Roberto M. (56)
Tuesday August 5, 2014, 9:57 pm
Bigotry? Have you read the Hamas charter? Shall I quote it here for you? They make no bones about it.

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp

"Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it"

Read the preamble and Article 13, 14 and 15.

I stated Fact. If you can read that and come to another conclusions, then I would love to hear your interpretation.

I have no hatred for the Palestinian people. I feel for them. They are being used as pawns in a proxy war between Israel and a number of Islamic States such as Iran and Qatar. They are at the mercy of violent leadership that has no care for their lives.

I reserve my disdain for Hamas. A recognized terrorist group.

I attack your lack of integrity. Your utter bias and one sided view. Your posting of propaganda and misinformation. Your ridiculous analogies. Your continue vilification and down right lies about the Israeli government.

I do not agree wit everything Israel does. Nor do I like to see innocent people get killed. But I have enough rational thought to understand this is the result of a terrorist regime. And that the ONLY solution is to push BOTH sides to the negotiating table. Instead, you appear to be goading on MORE war.

I will continue to refute you propaganda. I will continue to say the ONLY chance for peace is if Hamas is no longer in the picture. The Palestinians must WANT peace. The Israelis already want Peace.
 

Carrie B. (301)
Wednesday August 6, 2014, 12:25 am
It would appear that all news outlets and sources that do not agree with your limited view Roberto are printing misinformation and propaganda as well as the many ~ see below ~ who have written extensively about the Palestinian genocide by Israel. You are right about one thing ~ this is the result of a terrorist regime. That regime being the Israeli government.
.
18 FAMOUS WRITERS including 3 Nobel Laureates slam Apartheid Israel’s Palestinian Genocide as “[Israel’s] long-term military, economic and geographic practice whose political aim is nothing less than the liquidation of the Palestinian nation”
2010 Summary: Racist Zionism and Israeli State Terrorism threats to Australia and Humanity
9 January 2010 Formal Complaint by Dr Gideon Polya to the International Criminal Court (ICC) re US Alliance Palestinian, Iraqi, Afghan, Muslim, Aboriginal, Biofuel and Climate Genocides
ABANI, Chris. Nigerian novlesis and poet slams "[Israel's] long-term military, economic and geographic practice whose political aim is nothing less than the liquidation of the Palestinian nation"
AHMADINEJAD, Mahmoud. WW2 Holocaust used as a pretext for Palestinian Genocide
AKLEH, Elias. Dr Elias Akleh on Nazi-style racist Zionist Palestinian Holocaust & Palestinian Genocide
ALI, Tariq. Eminent UK-Pakistani writer: "[Israel's] long-term military, economic and geographic practice whose political aim is nothing less than the liquidation of the Palestinian nation."
ATZMON, Gilad. Biblical call to genocide & Israeli Palestinian Genocide
AUSTRALIANS FOR PALESTINE (AFP) provides maps and details of the Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine by the genocidal racist Zionsits.
AVNERY, Uri. Jewish Israeli peace activist slams Apartheid Israel’s "slow-motion ethnic cleansing" of the Palestinians
BANKS, Russell. Outstanding US writer and poet slams "[Israeli] long-term military, economic and geographic practice whose political aim is nothing less than the liquidation of the Palestinian nation"
BARGHOUTI. Omar. Palestinian writer: "Israel’s hermetic siege of Gaza, designed to kill, cause serious bodily and mental harm, and deliberately inflict conditions of life calculated to bring about partial and gradual physical destruction, qualifies as an act of genocide"
BERGER, John. Eminent UK writer and artist: "[Israel's] aim is nothing less than the liquidation of the Palestinian people"
BOYLE, Francis. US law professor condemns US & Zionists over Palestinian Genocide
BROCKMANN, Miguel d'Escoto. Former Roman Catholic priest, Nicaraguan foreign minister, and president of the UN General Assembly, on Israeli Gaza Massacre: "The situation is untenable. It's genocide"
CASTRO, Fidel. Cuban leader attacks Obama support for Israel's Palestinian Genocide
CHAVEZ, Hugo. Venezuelan President accuses Israelis of Palestinian Genocide
CHOMSKY, Noam. Outstanding Jewish American linguistics scholar : "[Israel's] long-term military, economic and geographic practice whose political aim is nothing less than the liquidation of the Palestinian nation"
CHRISTISON, Kathleen & Bill. Former US CIA officers: "Israel has given itself the right to erase the Palestinian presence in Palestine — in other words, to commit genocide by destroying "in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial, or religious group""
CIEMPOZUELOS, Madrid, Spain, proposed Palestinian Genocide observance day blocked by Zionist pressure on Spanish Government
COMMITTEE FOR THE DISMANTLING OF ZIONISM: "The world wide Zionist organisations are also guilty, in terms of the Genocide Convention, Article III (e), of “complicity in genocide””"
COOK, William. US English professor: "Nakba, was an intentional calculated campaign to force the Palestinian Arabs out of Palestine, a systematic genocide of a people as defined by the United Nations in its adoption of Raphael Lemkin’s term in 1948"
CURTHOYS, Ned. Anti-racsit Jewish Australian philosopher: " Israel ... is a genocidal settler colonial society that since its founding in 1948 continually seeks to destroy the foundations of life of the indigenous Palestinians"
DE ROOIJ, Paul. Dutch mathematician and economist: "When the scale, intent and period are taken into account, then one can only conclude that Israel's policy is genocidal"
DOCKER, John. Anti-racist Jewish Australian philosophy academic: "Israel ... is a genocidal settler colonial society that since its founding in 1948 continually seeks to destroy the foundations of life of the indigenous Palestinians"
DOEBBLER, Curtis. Famed US international human rights lawyer: "No single example better exemplifies the international community’s failure to stop genocide then the case of Israel’s ongoing genocide of the Palestinian"
ESPADA, Martín. New York-born Puerto Rico Latino poet slams "[Israel's] long-term military, economic and geographic practice whose political aim is nothing less than the liquidation of the Palestinian nation"
FALK, Richard. Top American law Professor on “Slouching toward a Palestinian Holocaust” and "Israel's] long-term military, economic and geographic practice whose political aim is nothing less than the liquidation of the Palestinian nation"
FORCHÉ, Carolyn. Leading US poet and human rights advocate slams "[Israeli] long-term military, economic and geographic practice whose political aim is nothing less than the liquidation of the Palestinian nation"
FRASER, Genevieve Cora. US writer and human rights activist: "Democrats Sponsorship of Palestinian Genocide beneath Contempt"
FRIEDMAN, Seth. UK writer on remorseless, continuing ethnic cleansing of Palestine
GALEANO, Eduardo. Eminent Uruguayan writer: writer: "[Israel's] long-term military, economic and geographic practice whose political aim is nothing less than the liquidation of the Palestinian nation"
GAZA CONCENTRATION CAMP - the most horribly abused and largest concentration camp in the world today
GENEVA CONVENTION. Articles 55 and 56 of the Geneva Convention Relative to the Protection of Civilians in Time of War: Occupier must supply life-sustaining requisites "To the fullest extent of the means available to it "
GLASS, Charles. Top US writer & correspondent slams "[Israeli] long-term military, economic and geographic practice whose political aim is nothing less than the liquidation of the Palestinian nation"
HAGEDORN, Jessica. Filipino-American poet slams "[Israeli] long-term military, economic and geographic practice whose political aim is nothing less than the liquidation of the Palestinian nation"
HOWARD, Andrea. US social justice activist slams “Israeli immunity for genocide” in Lebanon and Palestine
KENEALLY, Thomas. Famous humanitarian Australian novelist and writer slams "[Israeli] long-term military, economic and geographic practice whose political aim is nothing less than the liquidation of the Palestinian nation"
KLEIN, Naomi. Famous Jewish Canadian writer slams Apartheid Israeli for aim that is "nothing less than the liquidation of the Palestinian nation"
KLEIN, Naomi. Famous Jewish Canadian writer: "[Israel's] long-term military, economic and geographic practice whose political aim is nothing less than the liquidation of the Palestinian nation"
KUALA LUMPUR WAR CRIMES TRIBUNAL (KLWCT) hears genocide and war crimes charges against the State of Israel
LENDMAN, Stephen. Apartheid Israel's Palestinian Holocaust & slow-motion Palestinian Genocide
MORRISON, Toni. Literature Nobel Prize-winning African-American novelist slams "[Israel's] long-term military, economic and geographic practice whose political aim is nothing less than the liquidation of the Palestinian nation"
MURRAY, Craig. Former UK Ambassador slams "Blatant ethnic cleansing and prolonged, agonizing genocide of the Palestinian people"
MUSLIM COUNCIL OF BRITAIN (MCB) regrets exclusion of Palestinian Genocide from Holocaust Day
OPEN LETTER by Dr Gideon Polya to Australian MPs and Media protesting Labor Government moves to seek investment of Australian superannuation funds in Apartheid Israel
OPHIR, Adi. Jewish Israeli philosopher slams those who "justify genocide" and the racist Zionist Palestinian Genocide "hiding behind expulsion".
PALESTINE GENOCIDE and Australia’s Secret Genocide History
PAPPÉ, Ilan. Jewish Israeli Professor Pappé on "The ethnic cleansing of Palestine"
PETERSEN, Kim. Indigenous human rights activist: "Palestinian Genocide ... Article 2 (a,b,c, & d) of the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide seems to apply well to the case of 1948 and also today
PETRAS, James. Outstanding sociology professor on "Palestine like Auschwitz" and slams genocidal racist Zionist mission of "the expulsion of all Palestinians from their Promised Land"
PILGER, John. Outstanding Oz-UK writer John Pilger slams Palestinian Genocide
PINTER, Harold. Jewish British Literature Nobel Laureate: "[Israel's] long-term military, economic and geographic practice whose political aim is nothing less than the liquidation of the Palestinian nation"
POLYA, Gideon. Palestinian Genocide as defined by UN Genocide Convention
PRO-ZIONIST BBC CENSORS "Palestine", "Palestinian Holocaust", "Palestinian Genocide", "anti-racist Jew", "anti-racist Jews" & "anti-racist Jewish" (as does Australian ABC)
Racist Zionism and Israeli State Terrorism threats to Australia and Humanity
REINHART, Tanya. Jewish Israeli linguistics professor: "The trouble is not exactly with Zionism, but with the Israeli leadership and the way Zionism has been executed, based on ethnic cleansing from the very start"
ROBERTS, Paul Craig. US conservative economist and "Father of Reaganomics": "Muslim genocide in one form or another is the professed goal of the neoconservatives who have total control over the Bush administration"
ROY. Arundhati. Famed Indian writer slams "[Israeli] long-term military, economic and geographic practice whose political aim is nothing less than the liquidation of the Palestinian nation"
SA'ID, Edward. Re Palestinian Genocide: "One universal truth about the [Jewish] Holocaust is not only that it should never again happen to Jews, but that as a cruel and tragic collective punishment, it should not happen to any people at all"
SAALAKHAN, Mauri'. "The open genocide taking place in Gaza at present - one of the largest open air prisons in the world "
SALAM, Kawther. Palestinian journalist slams Palestinian collaborator furtherance of Palestinian Genocide
SARAMAGO, José. Portuguese Literature Nobel Laureate: "What is happening in Palestine is a crime that we can compare to what occurred in Auschwitz" & "[Israel's] aim is nothing less than the liquidation of the Palestinian people"
SHAKRA, Natalie Abu. Lebanese writer & activist: "erasing identities off the map, and this is what has been happening to the Palestinians for 61 years and on going now. What do you choose to do about it? Boycott Apartheid Israel."
SVIRSK
SVIRSKY, Marcelo. Australian academic on the Gaza Massacre & "the ethnic cleansing of Palestine that gave birth to the state of Israel"
UN GENERAL ASSEMBLY in Resolution 37/123 determined that “the large-scale massacre of Palestinian civilians in the Sabra and Shatila refugee camps… was an act of genocide”
UN GENOCIDE CONVENTION. "Acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part"
VIDAL, Gore. Famous US writer slams "[Israeli] long-term military, economic and geographic practice whose political aim is nothing less than the liquidation of the Palestinian nation"
VLAZNA, Vacy. Australian humanitarian scholar and activist slams JNF role in the ongoing ethnic cleansing of Palestine by Apartheid Israel
ZINN, Howard. Outstanding Jewish American historian slams "[Israeli] long-term military, economic and geographic practice whose political aim is nothing less than the liquidation of the Palestinian nation"
 

Roberto M. (56)
Wednesday August 6, 2014, 9:19 am
Carrie,

I see you continue to avoid the questions I pose. You continue to avoid the issue. You call me a Bigot, and then when I PROVE that Hamas said exactly what you claim is Bigotry, you simply ignore the issue and refuse to address it. That is Intellectual dishonesty to the extreme.

And clearly, you have stated your goal in no uncertain terms - You want to see the destruction of the "terrorist regime" of Israel. At last you have been honest.

Your list of 18 Authors contains the likes of:
AHMADINEJAD, Mahmoud - A KNOWN Holocaust Denier.
AKLEH, Elias. Dr - Who Claims the US and Israel Planned and carried out 9/11
CASTRO, Fidel - A ruthless despot

I could go on and on. Certainly there are Noted people in that list whom I respect. and I have read some of their works on this subject. Guess what, some of them also point at the USA as a genocidal Nation. But, I don't see you calling for the dissolution of the USA for some reason. Why would that be?

But you miss the point. You are once again trying to justify ONE set of evil, because the other set of EVIL is greater in your mind. That is a fool's errand. EVIL is EVIL. We should be pushing for Peace. We should be pushing BOTH Israel and the Palestinian people towards peace. Peace will NEVER be achieved when the leadership on one side has openly called for the complete and utter destruction of the other.

Israel will not be going away. Israel will exist in the region for the duration. Palestine has a chance to come into being. But it will NEVER happen as long as the leadership turns away from Peaceful solutions and towards violence. Real leaders like Gandhi, and Mandela are needed. Not terrorists like Khaled Mashal




 

Carrie B. (301)
Wednesday August 6, 2014, 12:19 pm
Proving Hamas wrong doesn't make Israel right. Hamas is classified as a terrorist organization because of their known militancy and some of their tactics. They also have a much more moderate side which provides much needed services to the Palestinian people. Your fixation on only the militant Hamas members while denying that same militancy in Israel makes you very naive or very foolish.
 

Roberto M. (56)
Wednesday August 6, 2014, 1:36 pm
Carrie, I have never said that Israel is completely in the "right". In fact I have repeatedly said that I do NOT agree with everything Israel has done. There are no innocent parties in the leadership of this conflict. BOTH sides have done EVIL horrible things.

And what of your Fixation on the militant elements in Israel? Or is your claim that the entirety of the Israeli government is militant? Or the entire country?

The moderate side of Hamas is not the side making the decisions. That is not the side that is in control. I applaud their efforts to help the Palestinian people. They need to wrest control from the militant arm of Hamas, just as the more moderate people in the Knesset need to keep the militants in the Likud party under control.

Again, I will state what I have said repeatedly. We should be pushing for Peace. We should be pushing BOTH Israel and the Palestinian people towards peace.

Do you sincerely believe that Peace can ever be achieved when one side has a militant faction who is making the decisions, and who has the stated desire of the complete and utter destruction of the other side?
 

Carrie B. (301)
Wednesday August 6, 2014, 3:10 pm
"Do you sincerely believe that Peace can ever be achieved when one side has a militant faction who is making the decisions, and who has the stated desire of the complete and utter destruction of the other side?"

No, I don't and you just described Israel to a tee.
 

Roberto M. (56)
Wednesday August 6, 2014, 3:31 pm
Keep your head buried in the sand Carrie.
It serves you well there.
At least it is protected from anything that is contrary to YOUR world view.

Goodbye
 

Evelyn B. (43)
Wednesday August 6, 2014, 7:23 pm
Roberto, your hatred blinds you to the fact that you refer to a 1988 document - there have been updated dcouments (in 2005, 2006 and 2007) in which Hamas recognises rights of Christians and Jews .... The religious & political movement has evolved. Do your homework ...

You also seem to confuse the person who posts an article with the person who wrote the article. This article was written by a Jew who questions a religious state - he is not criticising a state FOR the Jewish people. "I and others like me, want to make our case to you, directly, as Jews to Jews, on why the Palestinians deserve our solidarity, on why Israeli militarism must be opposed, on why the “Jewish State” of Israel necessarily leads to apartheid, and on why the nationalistic and supremacist beliefs of Zionism have led to the corruption of our people with the sins of racism and colonialism."

He opposes the racist and colonalist actions of militant Zionists - and upholds the human rights of the non-Jewish population of the land, now referred to as Palestinians - who represented 95% of the population of this geographic area in the 19th century. 5% of the Palestinian population was Jewish ... Anti-Zionist Jews' concern about the attribution of a homeland was over the dangers to the population already present if and when a country were to be created for the Jews. Their concerns were all too well founded.

The Palestinians have acknowledged the existence of the State of Israel - and have accepted the 1967 boundaries - more land that attributed to the State when it was founded. But their land has been, and is being, grabbed. The Jews who speak out for Palestinian rights oppose this colonialism, the militarism that reinforces this colonialism. Benjamin Silverman is one of a growing number of American Jews that rejects acts by the government that support such abuse of Palestinian human rights - because it is not in keeping with what they believe Judaism stand for.

If there is burying of heads in the sand in comments on this page, it is by those who can't or won't see that peace can only be built on mutual understanding and respect.

Some members of Hamas, & jihadists, will have to open their minds, and find grounds for compromise - they will have to align themselves with the more recent Hamas positions on tolerance.

On the Israeli side, the extremists - Zionist, settlers, and those who are allowing their fears of the Arabs/ Muslims/ Palestinians blind them to the reality (many have never spoken to a Palestinian, never sat down as equal humans, and fully believe the "danger" signs posted to discourage them from visiting Palestinian communities) need to learn to leave their fears and their arms behind, and recognise the fellow human beings who live in the occupied territories.

Those Israelis who have reached out, unarmed, have found a welcome. It won't be easy, but peace is possible if the will is there, if all people have access to equal justice, if IDF intervened to prevent settler violence, destruction of property, and land grabs for outposts.
 

Evelyn B. (43)
Wednesday August 6, 2014, 7:42 pm
A message from Jewish Voice fro Peace:
Growing Movement of American Jews Speaking Out Against Assault On Gaza

GROWING MOVEMENT OF AMERICAN JEWS SPEAKING OUT AGAINST ASSAULT ON GAZA

Jewish Voice for Peace activists across the US demand an end to the assault on Gaza and an end to the occupation of Palestine

August 4, 2014—Unprecedented numbers of Jewish Americans are organizing to call for an end to Israel’s devastating assault on Gaza. In a coordinated effort in dozens of cities across the US, Jewish Voice for Peace (JVP) chapters have organized street protests, demonstrations and civil disobedience actions to call for an end to the invasion, an end to the 7-year-old siege, and an end to the 47-year occupation of Palestine. Since the initiation of the most recent assault on Gaza on July 7, upwards of 1822 Palestinians including at least 377 children and 67 Israelis, 3 of them civilians, have been killed.

“Every time Israel engages in high-profile repression of civilians, we get inundated. But we have never seen anything like this. Our mailing list grew by 50,000 in 3 weeks and we can’t keep up with the demand for new chapters. This is the final straw for many Jews, who have decided that their silence implies consent,” Said Rabbi Alissa Wise, JVP Co-Director of Organizing and Chair of the JVP Rabbinical Council.

Activists in Jewish Voice for Peace chapters across the US are targeting American companies that profit from the occupation, Congressional leaders, and Jewish institutions that rally behind Israel’s violence against civilians in Gaza:

JVP activists in Seattle, New York, DC, Boston, and San Francisco have risked arrest in targeted actions against institutions and companies that support the assault.

JVP chapters have organized and taken part in demonstrations in Seattle, Washington DC, Albany, Ithaca, Westchester, Atlanta, San Diego, St. Louis San Francisco, Los Angeles, Portland, Raleigh, Philadelphia, Tacoma, Twin Cities, Santa Cruz, Honolulu, Columbia, Houston, Las Vegas, Madison, Milwaukee, Montpelier, New Haven, Northhampton, Sacramento, Toronto, Asheville, Boston, and New York, among others.

Events are being planned this week in New York, Santa Barbara, Santa Cruz, the Bay Area, Albuquerque, the Twin Cities, Ithaca, White Plains, and Philadelphia, among others.

With the assistance of the Institute for Middle East Understanding, Jewish Voice for Peace also produced a video and photo project— Freedom4Palestine.org— showcasing Jewish luminaries, prominent Palestinians, Nobel Prize laureates, activists and other notables speaking out for Palestinian human rights. Featuring Mandy Patinkin, Jonathan Demme, Gloria Steinem, Tony Kushner, Diana Buttu, Chuck D, Eve Ensler, Brian Eno, Roger Waters, Mira Nair, Wallace Shawn, Naomi Klein, Mira Nair, Raj Patel, and Noura Erakat among others, the heartbreaking video has been watched nearly 175,000 times in its first few days online, and photos continue to be submitted.

Sample of recent actions:

In Seattle, JVP activists shut down the entrance to Boeing’s international headquarters for 3 hours on July 28 in protest against the company’s support for Israel’s assault on Gaza.

In Atlanta, JVP activists held a prayer vigil on July 24 to honor those who have been killed in Operation Protective Edge with 70 attendees in front of the Israel Consulate.

In Boston, JVP activists helped organize a 2,000 person rally in support of the people of Gaza that blocked the streets in front of the Statehouse on July 22.

In New York, nine JVP activists were arrested on July 22 in an act of civil disobedience at the offices of the Friends of the Israeli Defense forces.

In Chicago, 5 JVP activists were arrested in an act of civil disobedience inside the headquarters of Boeing on July 16. The Boeing Company was listed in 2012 as the second biggest arms supplier worldwide. Boeing has sold Israel F-15A fighter jets and Apache AH 64 helicopters currently being used in attacks on Gaza.

In the Bay Area, JVP activists staged a “die-in” at Hewlett-Packard (HP) Headquarters on July 17 to protest HP’s complicity in and profit from the violence being perpetrated by the Israeli government and army against the Palestinian people. Activists read the names of those killed and recited the kaddish, the Jewish prayer for the dead. HP’s information technology administers the Israeli navy’s electronic infrastructure, and provides all PCs used by the Israeli military.

In Washington DC, JVP activists interrupted a speech by Ambassador Ron Dermer on July 20 at the annual Christians United for Israel to call on Israel to be held accountable for the deaths of Palestinian civilians in Gaza.

For information on upcoming actions, visit our website and get in touch with our chapters.

###

Jewish Voice for Peace (www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org) is a national, grassroots organization dedicated to achieving a just and lasting peace that recognizes the aspirations of both Israelis and Palestinians for security and self-determination. Jewish Voice for Peace has over 170,000 online supporters, 40 chapters, a youth wing, a Rabbinic Cabinet, and an Advisory Board made up of leading U.S. intellectuals and artists.
 

Roberto M. (56)
Wednesday August 6, 2014, 9:04 pm
Evelyn,
My hatred is only directed at the Terrorist group Hamas. You claim they have adjusted their charter. If they have it certainly isn't readily available on the net. Nor has it been highly publicized.

But in any case, I agree, we should be pushing for peace. And there are extremists on BOTH sides who need to be marginalized and removed from the conversation.

My anger is directed at the very selective outrage expressed on this issue. Far too many stake an exclusively anti-Israel position, and completely ignore the Hamas terrorist element. As if the violence they have perpetrated is somehow justified.

We can argue for decades over who had "rights" to that land. It is fruitless. There is NO going back at this point. We must be looking forward. There are valid arguments on both sides of that mess.

We can also argue about who is at fault. That too is fruitless. There is plenty of blame to go around.

But I always come back to the fundamental question which continues to niggle my mind. What is it about THIS conflict that stirs up so much attention? Why are the deaths in this conflict so much weightier than deaths in other concurrent conflicts that have resulted in FAR more spilled blood?

Nobody has been able to answer those questions to my satisfaction. I have a theory, an admittedly very cynical one. But so far evidence has validated my theory very well. And thus, my anger.

Perhaps you see things differently. And that may be the issue. We are coming at this conflict from very different perspectives. But when I see highly biased selective outrage, I question in. Even in myself.
 

Carrie B. (301)
Wednesday August 6, 2014, 9:12 pm
"What is it about THIS conflict that stirs up so much attention? Why are the deaths in this conflict so much weightier than deaths in other concurrent conflicts that have resulted in FAR more spilled blood? "

Many have finally become fed up with Israel's continued subjugation and persecution of the Palestinian people. That is your answer ~ pure and simple. We're tired of the self-righteous behavior which allows Israel the right to steal their land, kill their children, and destroy their lives and livelihood ~ all with complete immunity and often times with approval from the western world. It's time Israel follow the rules of international law it DEMANDS of all others.
 

Carrie B. (301)
Wednesday August 6, 2014, 9:40 pm
I might add that Israel has always held itself to be above such despicable behavior. They have been a persecuted people ~ therefore their empathy for others was somehow perceived to be greater than all of the rest of the world. Their very suffering made them see through different eyes. Perhaps we all expected too much, but I grew up being taught about the greatness of God's Chosen People. I do not see any of that greatness. All I see is intolerance and abhorrent behavior toward any and all who dare get in the way of Israel or disagree with them.

They can not continue to take what is not theirs and persecute an already beaten people.
 

Roberto M. (56)
Wednesday August 6, 2014, 10:11 pm
Carrie,

The truth continue to come out. You truly hate the Jewish people. You hide behind all sorts of platitudes. But your hatred is plainly clear. You are no better than those you hate. In fact you are worse.

And you have supported my theory yet again. THIS conflict is special, because people like YOU hold a special hatred in their hearts for the Jewish people.

Do You hate the USA as much Carrie? The USA is guilty of FAR more atrocities than Israel. It has subjugated FAR more populations. It has acted with impunity and little care for other people for decades. Yet somehow I don't sense outrage from you about the USA. There can be only one answer. And it is clear to all who read what you just posted.

Be content in your hatred Carrie. People like you CAUSE these conflicts. They do not solve them.
 

Carrie B. (301)
Wednesday August 6, 2014, 10:18 pm
I have no hatred for the Jewish people or any people as a group. You are making wild accusations that have no basis in fact. Roberto, you are irrational, illogical and for some unknown reason have a deep personal hatred of me. I feel sorry for you because you are making a fool of yourself by making such absurd and unfounded attacks on me. No one can take you seriously when you behave in such an irrational manner. If these articles upset you so much perhaps you should refrain from reading them.
 

Roberto M. (56)
Wednesday August 6, 2014, 10:49 pm
Carrie,

I do not hate you. I pity you. And I see you avoid answer the questions I pose. Why is that Carrie? Do they cut to the core of the issue? Is the USA so morally superior to Israel that it does not deserve the same disdain that you pile upon Israel? You WILL not answer, because in the answer lies hypocrisy. Deep down you know that the USA is at the very least AS guilty of atrocities and subjugation and murder of innocents as Israel is in your eyes. But somehow, that doesn't trigger the visceral reaction you have displayed towards Israel.
WHY Carrie? WHY is the USA exempt from your anger, your derision, your disgust?

I have repeatedly Stated I do not agree with everything Israel does. As I do not agree with Everything the USA does. However, I do not display the hypocrisy of heaping disgust on one, while ignoring the crimes of the other.
 

Carrie B. (301)
Wednesday August 6, 2014, 10:57 pm
Your idiotic questions have nothing to do with Israel. Of course, I don't agree with everything the US has done or is doing. If you weren't so fixated on attacking me you would realize that if I disagree with Israel's policies I must certainly disagree with the US helping them with financial aid and weapons.

Now why don't you stop attacking me and deal with your own very obvious hypocrisy and unwarranted anger toward others. Why don't you direct some of that anger toward those who might actually deserve it?
 

Roberto M. (56)
Wednesday August 6, 2014, 11:12 pm
Goodnight Carrie.

Be content in the hatred you spread. As I said before, people like you cause these conflicts. They do not solve them.
 

jess b (24)
Wednesday August 6, 2014, 11:26 pm
"They want one thing, the destruction of Israel and the Jewish people. It is in their charter." That sounds like bigotry to me.
It certainly does.
The hypocrisy in some of the comments is a shame.
Thank you, Carrie
 

Stevie A. (10)
Wednesday August 6, 2014, 11:49 pm
Carrie and Roberto, I believe that you both want Israelis and Palestinians to have a safe place to live. To me, your increasingly heated comments to one another exemplify the challenges of communicating support for one people without denying the rights and humanity of the other.
And the Northern United States of America, in its treatment of the First Nations people who were here BEFORE the famous Pilgrim Invasion. Hitler got his inspiration for the concentration camps from OUR reservations. We came to a place that was not ours and kept “expanding". The NUSA has yet to honor a number of treaties and promises made generations ago. In fact the government does not want to pay the current value of land that was “bought" in the last millennium, but never paid for. The original price is what they might be willing to hand over, but no interest, no penalties and certainly not the current value. My apologies for wandering from the subject. Thank-you for your patience. We humans are still struggling to communicate effectively.
 

Carrie B. (301)
Thursday August 7, 2014, 12:46 am
Thank you Stevie. You are kind and all too correct.
 

Evelyn B. (43)
Thursday August 7, 2014, 1:51 am
I find it ironic that someone can keep "shouting" "you hate all Jews" at a person who has posted an article BY a Jew - admittedly, a Jew who dares to criticise the Israeli government.

I see someone who tries to shut up any criticism of Israel by throwing around terms like "hate Jews", "support terrorists", & uses insults, while pretending to be only against Hamas

If anyone is interested in following through about later Hamas declarations, a starting point is A New Hamas through its new documents. The principles discussed in this article are also reflected in discussions with Hamas leaders in recent years .. including with people from a Jewish Voice for Peace delegation, but also in interviews. However, those who want to categorise the all Hamas members with those - and yes, there are some - who are extremist & pro-violence won't want to know or believe this. And these don't even make up all the members of Hamas militia - some of those are only concerned with defending Gaza and Palestinian rights.

Rather like those - and Carrie is certainly NOT one of them - who classify all Israelis with those who burn teenagers alive, attack mosques & churches, sat in the hills cheering as death poured down on Gaza .... the Israeli terrorists of today (and even the government has officially recognised ""pay back" attacks as terrorism).

In reality - the extremists are NOT typical of all their communities. Both sides really must get their extremists under control, punish adequately those who are or have engaged in acts that are terrorist, that are crimes against humanity.
 

Evelyn B. (43)
Thursday August 7, 2014, 2:00 am
I notice that Carrie did not actually call Roberto a bigot - she said that a statement sounded like bigotry.

I also notice that attempts to drown the real subject of this article - Jews calling on fellow Jews to think carefully about whether they can really support unconditionally certain policies & strategies of the Israeli government - in discussion on other - important but not the focus of the post in question - issues. Wrongs around the globe do not make any wrong "less" wrong, more tolerable.
 

Evelyn B. (43)
Friday August 8, 2014, 1:35 am
I would strongly encourage people to read I Am a Jew and I Insist It Is Not Anti-Semitic to Criticise Israel for Its Gaza Crimes.

They will immediately recognise the pattern described by the author of the article ...

e.g. “Claims like this are significant because they shift the terms of debate – rather than asking whether Israel's treatment of the Palestinians is justified, Israel's supporters wish to place that question beyond the scope of legitimate discussion. In order to defend human rights effectively, it is therefore important that we are all able to respond to these claims, which take two main forms:

"Lots of countries are awful. You single out Israel's violence because you hate Jews" “
 

jess b (24)
Saturday August 9, 2014, 2:02 am
Take action: Protests around the world respond to assault on Palestine http://samidoun.ca/2014/07/take-action-protests-around-the-world-respond-to-assault-on-palestine/
 
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