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Iran Committed to Full Annihilation of Israel.


World  (tags: Iranian threats, violence, middle-east, conflict )

Stan
- 847 days ago - dailycaller.com
Iran is dedicated to annihilating Israel, the Islamic regime's military chief of staff declared Sunday. "The Iranian nation is standing for its cause and that is the full annihilation of Israel," Maj. Gen. Hassan Firouzabadi said.



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Comments

Stan B. (124)
Monday May 21, 2012, 2:30 am
While many within the Islamic regime, including President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, have often stated that Israel should be annihilated, until Sunday no one in the nation’s leadership has announced Iran’s determined intention to carry it out.
Can't wait to hear what the " Iran didn't say that." come up with.
 

Stan B. (124)
Monday May 21, 2012, 2:36 am
While many within the Islamic regime, including President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, have often stated that Israel should be annihilated, until Sunday no one in the nation’s leadership has announced Iran’s determined intention to carry it out.
Looking forward to hearing from the " That's not what Iran said " brigade.
 

Phyllis Baxter (39)
Monday May 21, 2012, 3:03 am
I wonder if this dingaling is familiar with 300 Greeks Vs Persians way back when. Good luck General Fitsobadly- you're going need it!
 

patrica and edw jones (190)
Monday May 21, 2012, 5:02 am
With 11,000 missiles ready to go - they are obviously not joking. For the life of me - I cannot understand why these people can't live peacefully - WHY are they so intent on war? Are their brains wired differently to ours? Seems like H.G.Wells prediction re WW3 is a firm possibility. Thanks Stan.
 

Ira Herson (13)
Monday May 21, 2012, 5:30 am
Thanks Stan, I tried to send you a start but I already have. These 11,000 missiles are only for peaceful energy. Iran is only developing ICBMs and Nuclear weapons for peaceful energy.
Noam Chomsky said that the Ayatollah gave his word that they were not making weapons. You can trust the Ayatollah, he would never lie about this.

NB: I am being facetious for those that do not recognize it
 

Fred H. (31)
Monday May 21, 2012, 8:09 am
And, some people still think Israel is "overreacting" to the Iranian nuclear weapon program!
 

pam w. (191)
Monday May 21, 2012, 8:10 am
Lately I've begun to wonder if idiots like this Fotsobadly (lol) aren't playing the same role as the loud-mouthed Republicans who are setting up SMOKESCREENS in order to lure less-than-bright citizens to their sides.

My guess is that the average Iranian probably doesn't give a rap about Israel....he just wants to work, live fairly well and feed the kids.

But, he gets "leaders" like this one who beats drums, waves his willy and acts like a WARRIOR. This man is the equivalent of Rush Limpbough....attack the weak and feel powerful!

Unfortunately, he has weapons.
 

Alexa R. (333)
Monday May 21, 2012, 9:00 am
Send a Green Star to Fred H.
Sending a Green Star is a simple way to say "Thank you"
You cannot currently send a star to Fred because you have done so within the last week.
 

Beth S. (326)
Monday May 21, 2012, 4:26 pm
Iran believes that threatening Israel's annihilation is Iran's ticket to acceptance and even leadership in the Islamic world, because they certainly have no credibility on their own.

The Shia are the black sheep of the greater Islamic family (if there ever really was one), and the Sunnis look down on them. No wonder, Achmadinejad and mullahs are a bunch of pigs (I apologize to pigs for comparing them to the Shia).
 

Beth S. (326)
Monday May 21, 2012, 4:28 pm
Thanks for posting, Stan. The denialists in the State Department will certainly go out of their way to not see, hear or speak this evil.
 

Joan H. (20)
Monday May 21, 2012, 5:52 pm
Thanks Stan for the article. Well either he's speaking the truth or he's the equivolent of Joe Biden. I think he's probably speaking the truth.
 

Rob and Jay B. (120)
Tuesday May 22, 2012, 4:29 am
Surprising that all the Jew-haters and Islamists haven't found this posting yet, but they will and will be writing their hatefilled posts against Israel while completely ignoring the hate, violence, corruption and brutality of all of Israel's surrounding Islamic occupied lands. It isn't just Iran that wants to eliminate Israel and kill all the Jews, it is a command of that sick ideology, Islam, for all of its followers to kill all Jews so their 'day of resurrection' can come since their hatefilled deity says it won't until all Jews are murdered. How can decent people who truly care about human rights and peace not rage against this blatant bigotry and hatred? But just watch some of those who claim to care come on here and praise the Islamic Dictatorship of Iran and deny all the hate from all other Islamic ruled lands. Ask them if they condemn the hatred spewed by the Islamists and they never answer.

Here are some other proofs of Islam's command to exterminate all Jews:

Bukhari:V4B52N177 "Allah's Apostle said, 'The Hour will not be established until you fight
with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say.
"O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."'"
(A poll sponsored by the Israel Project found that 73 percent of Palestinian Arabs “believe” this Hadith, according to the findings of a July 2011 study by Greenberg Quinlan Rosner)

"Our thanks go to the late Hitler who wrought, in advance, the vengeance of the Palestinians upon the most despicable villains on the face of the earth. However, we rebuke Hitler for the fact that the vengeance was insufficient."
-- al-Akhbar, Egypt's second largest newspaper

"The Jews are the Jews. There never was among them a supporter of peace. They are all liars... the true criminals, the Jewish terrorists, that slaughtered our children, that turned our wives into widows and our children into orphans, and desecrated our holy places. They are terrorists. Therefore it is necessary to slaughter them and murder them, according to the words of Allah... it is forbidden to have mercy in your hearts for the Jews and any place in any land. Make war on them any place that you find yourself. Any place that you encounter them - kill them. Kill the Jews and those among the Americans that are like them... Have no mercy on the Jews, murder them everywhere..."
-- Palestinian TV, 13 October 2000

"We plan to eliminate the state of Israel and establish a purely Palestinian state. We will make life unbearable for Jews by psychological warfare and population explosion... We Palestinians will take over everything, including all of Jerusalem."
-- Yasser Arafat, Leader of the PLO

"Peace for us means the destruction of Israel."
-- Yasser Arafat, Leader of the PLO, 1980

"Israel must be wiped off the map."
-- Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Iranian President, 2005

"Israel must be wiped off the map."
-- Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Iranian President, 2005

"The Jews invented the legend of the Nazi atrocities... Anyone who reads the Koran and the holy writings of the monotheistic religions sees what they did to the prophets, and what acts of madness and slaughter the Jews carried out throughout history... Anyone who reads these texts cannot think of co-existence with them, of peace with them, or about accepting their presence, not only in Palestine of 1948 but even in a small village in Palestine, because they are a cancer which is liable to spread again at any moment."
-- Hassan Nasrallah, Leader of Hezbollah

"We have discovered how to hit the Jews where they are the most vulnerable. The Jews love life, so that is what we shall take away from them. We are going to win, because they love life and we love death."
-- Hassan Nasrallah, Leader of Hezbollah

"There are 50 million Arabs. What does it matter if we lose 10 million people to kill all the Jews? The price is worth it."
King ibn Saud, Saudi Arabia

Is it any wonder the Jews of Israel (who allow freedom of religion to the Muslims living there) are so bent on defending themselves? Note how they were condemned for erecting the wall that since its being built there have been no Islamist suicide bombings in schools, cafes, buses etc.
 

Hilary S. (45)
Tuesday May 22, 2012, 4:40 am
what sort of country prioritises the destruction of another? and what sort of people turn a blind eye to that?

my guess? people who imagine that such a goal will distract iran from plans to destroy their own country.
 

Michela m. (3924)
Tuesday May 22, 2012, 5:25 am
Terrible.............. noted
 

Gene Jacobson (252)
Tuesday May 22, 2012, 5:33 am
There's nothing actually new about that blowhard regime's overkill rhetoric. It seems a common trait to despots whether they be military, religious or both. What would they do, I wonder, if Israel took that statement as a formal declaration of war and hit them with everything they've got? Those handful that were left, I mean. The Iranian people are not nearly as foolish as their religious fanatic leadership. If they quit rigging elections, the world would know that. But I don't see how Israel could be faulted if they leveled one of Iran's military bases as a result of the formal declaration of war that fool just made. Put up or shut up. Iran couldn't beat Iraq in their decade long "war" using children to carry bombs to the front lines, they couldn't fight their way out of the proverbial paper bag. They are good at hostile talk and that's it. Someone ought slap that smug face and if they keep it up, it might just be Israel. It certainly highlights what Israel faces with its neighbors all of whom feel the same way. You corner an animal it will bite you, no matter how peaceful it normally seems. I don't think the Arabic nations really want this fight, they'll get their rears handed to them again, but if they don't learn to tone down the rhetoric, they may get it whether they really want it or not. People get tired of being threatened by bullies and eventually strike. So will Israel. They've shown remarkable restraint as it is.
 

John Gregoire (255)
Tuesday May 22, 2012, 5:36 am
I hope we can let Iran and Israel figure this one out and stay the heck out of the conflict.
 

Jean M. (143)
Tuesday May 22, 2012, 5:48 am
No worries, Israel will wipe Iran off the map. I agree with Gene. "You corner an animal it will bite you, no matter how peaceful it normally seems. I don't think the Arabic nations really want this fight, they'll get their rears handed to them again, but if they don't learn to tone down the rhetoric, they may get it whether they really want it or not. People get tired of being threatened by bullies and eventually strike. So will Israel. They've shown remarkable restraint as it is"
 

paul m. (93)
Tuesday May 22, 2012, 6:24 am

It's a pity people can't get on.....!!
 

Charles O. (209)
Tuesday May 22, 2012, 6:57 am
Listen to the jubilation coming from the Zionists!

> Hurray! Hurray! Israel finally gets to blow up the world! And now it has a pretext!

Not so fast. Can someone please direct me to a reputable newspaper that is carrying this story?

"Full annihilation"? -- isn't that a bit redundant? And over-kill is "Iran's cause"? The Maj. Gen. says everything Israel wants him to say, and more. Too good to be true.

It may be that Iran has concluded that war is unavoidable. If so, it might seek to invite an Israeli attack now rather than later. Otherwise, this makes no sense.

Whatever the case, the Zionists are eating it up. And that is precisely what Iran intends, if Firouzabadi really did say what the Daily Caller claims he said.

 

Carola May (20)
Tuesday May 22, 2012, 7:14 am
Here come the Jew/Israel haters with Charles O leading the charge. The rest should follow shortly. They all have the gall to actually defend the corrupt, brutal, oppressive regimes of Iran, Palestine and the other enemies of Israel, the only democracy and free country in the whole region where even Muslims have freedom of religion where that is not the case in any Muslim ruled country.

Why do you people keep taking the side of such hateful tyrannical regimes? You have no credibility.
 

S. C. (6)
Tuesday May 22, 2012, 7:19 am
Iran, has by far, the largest Jewish population of any Muslim country. And actually, they are allowed to worship.
 

Ira Herson (13)
Tuesday May 22, 2012, 7:43 am
OH Charles O, I guess it was that pesky old Zionsphere that forced poor misunderstood Friouzabadi to say all that nasty stuff about annihilation. I would guess that he said "total Annihilation" and it got translated to "Full annihilation". How horrible to be misquoted like that.

I do not agree that it is an excuse for Israel to "blow up the world". I think that is a bit of an exaggeration. I would also say that it is not what Israelis want to hear. Israel is a very small place only 1/3rd the size of Tasmania. It will not take 11,000 missiles to wipe out Israel. The Iron Dome system is not 100% effective so yes it is possible to fulfill Iran's and your wish to see Israel annihilated.

As for jubilation, The Israelis have been hearing the threats of "rivers of blood", "War of extinction", "total annihilation", for years. I think they are a bit tired of it by now. (jewbilation?)

Some good news though, It appears that there has been some real progress with discussions between the USA and Iran regarding an 8 point plan regarding Iran's nuclear weapons project. It could be that the good general was only using the statement to give more bargaining strength for Iran in the discussions that were taking place at that time. Who knows?

You know, I have never heard of any other nation being threatened with Full or total annihilation on a constant basis except Israel. Could it be because it is the only Jewish state?

The Israelis have said that they considered the option of striking Iran's nuclear facilities. They have never threatened to annihilate the Iranians or anyone else.
 

Kerrie G. (135)
Tuesday May 22, 2012, 10:22 am
Noted, thanks.
 

John B. (215)
Tuesday May 22, 2012, 12:12 pm
Thanks Stan for posting the article. Noted.
 

Tom Sullivan (99)
Tuesday May 22, 2012, 12:17 pm
Israel will never loose a fight. These morons in Iran don't have the brains god gave them
 

Past Member (0)
Tuesday May 22, 2012, 12:38 pm
The Daily Caller seems to be a right-wing site. When this is reported on more reputable sites, I'll believe it. Hey, Charlie O - Sieg Heil!!
 

Gene Jacobson (252)
Tuesday May 22, 2012, 12:39 pm
Charles, "And over-kill is "Iran's cause"?"

What I meant by overkill and perhaps you misunderstood is that it is the rhetoric itself that is overkill. It is not enough to say defeat. Iran, like all despotic nations, including Nazi Germany, and the Cold Warriors isn't content to say we will oppose you, we will if you dare fight us, defeat you. They all, thoughout history, and the Old Testament, engage in this overcooked language. Kill every man, woman and child from the Old Testament is no different. Annihilate you completely, wipe you and all your progeny off the the face of the earth. It isn't enough to say we will take back your land, or try to. It is the pompous bluster that annoys me and I would think causes many Israelis to live with a more or less constant tinnitus of "is today the day they blow up my bus, my home, my business, our country". Living under that sort of pressure is not easy for anyone - here it would be actionable terroristic threats. That kind of overblown, overdone threat is not helpful to any negotiating process, were they even willing to have one, which by policy, they are not. Perhaps no one there really wants war, perhaps they are empty words. But my feeling is you can only bully someone for so long before they lose patience and strike out. Post traumatic stress syndrome of a kind, how all of Israel does not suffer from this malady is beyond me. Living under constant threat makes one hyper vigilant and hyper sensitive. And my fear is that one day, Israel will decide, enough. Make good on your threats you gas bags or we will. Then perhaps Revelations comes to pass. Or not. More likely Israel administers a good whipping and then gives back the territory they seized - again. There is a solution to the Palestinian State question that does not involve Israel disappearing but the Arab nations are not willing to cede a centimeter of ground to create that state. Reasonable people could resolve these issues but reason has rarely prevailed in that corner of the world. It is a disaster waiting to happen, one that could draw the world into another useless world war. That constant flow of unmitigated threats may come back to haunt Iran. If it does, well, they not only asked for it, they begged for it. While they are shadow boxing, they may find an actual opponent with no gloves on willing to take a swing at them. That would be terrible for their people. The Iranian people are not like their ugly leaders, they never have been. It is a shame, wherever in the world it happens, that a few despots in control make an entire nation look like thugs, when the truth is most of those people simply want to live in peace as does most of the world. Were we able to rid ourselves of the arrogance of power in our leaders, we might yet have a world at peace. But as long as people keep shouting horrid things at each other and threatening each other with extinction, this world will never know what it could become were we to try civilized behavior as a course of first resort. Israel is a tiny place surrounded by people who want to see every one of them dead. That is a lot of pressure to live under. That they do is a testament to their desire for peace and their self control. A lesser people would have bombed Iran back to the stone age long ago. That despotic leadership, along with a lot of wonderful and innocent Iranians. I think they are pushing their luck and should cut it out. For the good of everyone. But some people never learn the lessons history teaches. That so many of them live in that part of the world is unfortunate at best and horribly dangerous at worst. There are myriad ways the rest of the world could be brought into a battle that never need happen, if the hostile side would tone down its rhetoric and compromise on a reasonable solution to the Palestinian state issue. It could be done. I hope one day it will be. But I'm not holding my breath.
 

Robert B. (57)
Tuesday May 22, 2012, 12:44 pm
I agree with Pam W. , This is all just political theater to manipulate the general population into thinking about something that will divert their attention from the stupidity of those in power.
Iran knows that if it were to fire even ONE missile at the US and just ONE at Israel that their own future would be destroyed. I also doubt that they have 11,000 missiles ready to deploy.
 

Marianna Molnar Woods (9)
Tuesday May 22, 2012, 12:45 pm
very sad that peace cannot be restored...what restored there has never been...more like established
 

Fred Krohn (34)
Tuesday May 22, 2012, 1:29 pm
Iran has had no legal government since the Shah stepped down. Their threats against Israel should earn them a visit from Dr Strangelove and immediate destruction of all their nuclear facilities and storage centers. Iran, the 'fag end' of Persia, should fall to the younger and elder nations who have more common sense than a bunch of dimwit imperialists like Ahmadinejhad and Khameini and their ilk.
 

Charles O. (209)
Tuesday May 22, 2012, 1:40 pm
I'd like to see this story confirmed by other sources and I'd like to get clarification from Iran.

But let's assume, for a moment, that it is true and Iran has concluded that a U.S. / Israeli attack is inevitable. . Why would Iran invite Israel and the U.S. to attack now, as opposed to later? Here are a few reasons:

* An Iranian election is approaching, and an attack by the Ziosphere would keep Iranian dissidents in line

* The increased danger of war may encourage Europeans at the P5+1 talks in Baghdad to reject U.S. intransigence and negotiate seriously

* The shut-off of Iranian oil caused by a U.S. / Israeli attack in the near future would topple several key European economies and might collapse the economy throughout the Ziosphere.

* As the likelihood of a U.S. / Israel attack increases, Iran and Russia both benefit from the rise in oil and commodity prices.

* At some point, the situation in Syria may deteriorate, or the U.S. and Israel may attempt to take over that country.

* The U.S. is still bogged down in Iraq and Afghanistan and is not yet ready to immerse itself in another quagmire.

* The war-makers have not yet completed their preparations for war, and are less likely to succeed if their attack is inadequately prepared

* Firouzabadi's alleged comments may be a trial balloon -- an attempt to judge Israel's eagerness for aggression

* Iran likes to seize the initiative

The last point is something the Zionists don't understand. They expect us all to submit passively to their aggression and die quietly, like mindless little slaves. Iran refuses to play that servile part.

Israel has already decided that we shall have war -- it is already assassinating Iranian scientists, sponsoring anti-Iranian terrorists, blowing up Iranian facilities, infecting Iranian computers and strangling the Iranian economy. Why should Israel also get to decide the time and place?

 

S. C. (6)
Tuesday May 22, 2012, 1:42 pm
you have no idea what you're talking about, and no conception of events whatsoever, of which the US had a leading role, that caused the overthrow of the Shah. namely the overthrow of a democratically elected government by the us to install a brutal dictator. dumbass.
 

S. C. (6)
Tuesday May 22, 2012, 1:44 pm
Meaning fred.
 

Charles O. (209)
Tuesday May 22, 2012, 1:51 pm
By the way, I just read that Iran and the U.N. have reached a nuclear deal!!!!!

> Iran, IAEA Broker Nuclear Deal as Israel Calls it ‘Deception’
> Israel's reaction indicates it is not interested in Iran's nuclear program, only in increasing tensions
> by John Glaser, May 22, 2012

> A deal has been reached between Iran and the IAEA on further probing and inspections of Iran’s nuclear program, after the nuclear watchdog’s chief spent Monday negotiating in Tehran.

> IAEA chief Yukiya Amano said after talks with chief Iranian nuclear negotiator Saeed Jalili, “the decision was made… to reach agreement” on the mechanics of giving the IAEA additional access to the sites – including the Parchin military site – and documents it seeks to restart its probe, Amano told reporters at Vienna airport on Tuesday.

> Amano said differences existed on “some details,” without elaborating but added that Jalili had assured him that these “will not be an obstacle to reach agreement.” He spoke of “an almost clean text” that will be signed “quite soon,” although he could not say when specifically.

> The diplomatic breakthrough comes just one day before negotiations between six world powers and Iran take place in Baghdad. The Obama administration has yet to comment on the impending nuclear deal, but the President has in recent days employed rhetoric that is clearly constructed to seem tough against his Republican contender for the 2012 campaign

> Iran’s “ inability thus far to convince the world community that it is not pursuing the weaponization of nuclear power is of grave concern to all of us,” Obama said in a joint statement released after meeting with the Group of Eight at Camp David.

> But Obama knows better, and is himself convinced, along with his entire administration and the whole of the intelligence community, that Iran is not developing nuclear weapons.

> Obama’s bluster may also be catering to Israel, whose defense minister angrily condemned the nuclear deal brokered by Jalili and Amano. Defense Minister Ehud Barak said the Iranians are trying to create a “deception of progress” to avoid pressure ahead of the P5+1 talks this week.

> The Israelis have been leading an effort to shift the demand from preventing Iran from developing nuclear weapons to prohibiting Iran from developing any nuclear energy at all for peaceful purposes. They, and other hawks in the U.S., succumbed to the evidence that Iran has demonstrated no nuclear weapons ambitions, so are focusing instead on what Iran is doing, namely developing peaceful nuclear energy as is their right.

> The Israeli condemnation of the increased international inspections of Iran’s peaceful nuclear program is an indication that Israel is not interested in the true nature of Iran’s nuclear program, only in advocating for unprovoked war and distracting the world from its policies of expansion and expulsion in the Palestinian territories.

-- John Glaser, "Iran, IAEA Broker Nuclear Deal as Israel Calls it ‘Deception’ ", *antiwar.Com*, 22 May 2012

Israel is getting increasingly desperate, as its opportunity to make war slips over the horizon. That provides an alternative explanation for Firouzabadi's alleged "statement": It may be an entirely fictitious creation of Israeli propaganda. Has anyone seen a link to the alleged Farsi source? I sure haven't!
 

Past Member (0)
Tuesday May 22, 2012, 2:02 pm
Wow, this has turned into an anti-Muslim hatefest very quickly with all the usual suspects attending as well as a few new sheep sucked along in their wake.

If this were true it'd be on the front page of every newspaper in the world as most are controlled by corporate Zionism. Let's see some reputable sources.
 

Charles O. (209)
Tuesday May 22, 2012, 2:10 pm
Past member (0) writes:

> Hey, Charlie O - Sieg Heil!!

. .

I grew up despising the Hitlerites -- their sadism, their insanity, their savagery, their arrogance, their belligerence, their crudeness, their ignorance.

But my disgust was a bit abstract, because I was born after WW II: Everything I knew came from books.

That was before I encountered Zionism. Now, for the last 25 years, I have been witnessing another variant of fascism, first-hand. I see the same arrogance, the same belligerence, the same contempt for humanity, the same sadism, the same obdurate stupidity -- as people put ideology and the chimera of ethnic supremacy above all else. It's sickening and saddening and heart-breaking.

I know how this story ends. I know how it ended for the Germans in 1945.

Way back in 1948, in a 04 Dec letter to the New York Times, Einstein, Arendt, and many other American Jews warned of the rise of fascism in Israel. I'm issuing the same warning. Seig Heil, Zeig Zeil, it's all the same: It all ends very badly. The sooner we repudiate this divisive, suicidal, inhuman ideology, the better it will be for all of us, Jews and non-Jews alike.
 

Ira Herson (13)
Tuesday May 22, 2012, 3:28 pm
Gee it is amazing the way the Israel haters pop up. So lets see, Charles O thinks that Israel is happy to be threatened with annihilation. If it was true. John D is all for it and all because Israel should not exist. I guess it is alright with them that top ranking Iranian government officials threaten to kill millions of people.

Nothing wrong with that as long it is Israel.

This thread is about an Iranian general telling the world that he will annihilate a country and all of its people and the response is that's OK it's the Jews fault or It is Israel's way of inciting war? What is this troll logic? Or could this be just the latest of antisemitism from the usual suspects?
 

S. C. (6)
Tuesday May 22, 2012, 3:44 pm
So what? you had Senator McCain talking about how he'd bomb bomb Iran while running for president. stupid leader blowhards running their mouths, like this is anything new. You have Netanyahoo talking about bombing Iran, you have US congressmen treating and talking about war just as casually. Stupid comments that idiot representatives make while the actual real diplomats try to clean up their messes. Iran has not invaded or started a war with a country for hundreds of years. And John has a good point. If it were an actual threat, every paper in the country would have carried this.
 

Kate Kenner (200)
Tuesday May 22, 2012, 4:07 pm
Charles O., I don't know what hole you have been living but Iran has been saying this for years. It doesn't mean they are not serious about wanting to do this but it has been a while and so it is hard to tell whether they actually will attempt to do so at some point in time. It could be some form of psychological game they are playing as who knows if and when it will happen? Still the not knowing could be a strain on Israel.
Israel is not perfect but then so is any other country but it has the right to exist and it will. We won against the Maccabees and have withstood many battles. No, I am not Israeli but am a Jew, albeit an atheist Jew. Israel may be small but it is a feisty nation and we Jews have been facing adversity for thousands of years. If you think Iran is going to get rid of Israel , Charles and all other naysayers, then you've got anther thing coming.
 

Mary K. (9)
Tuesday May 22, 2012, 4:24 pm
WOW! I wonder how much of the rhetoric here is induced by pro-Israel misinformation? Are you people looking for war? NO? Then what are you looking for, more arms from the U.S.? Don't you have enough problems trying to live in PEACE with the Palestinians, or are you set on taking the little they have left. I just read a poem by W.H.Auden, Those to whom evil is done do evil in return. Are we to pay for the horrors of WWII? I am opposed to any armed conflict with Iran, no matter what Ahmadinejad says. He won't make a move because he'll stand alone, and he knows it. Now, knock off this jibberjabber. The only reason the Jews "suffer adversity" can only be answered within themselves. Get it? And don't go blasting me - I've seen both sides.
 

S. C. (6)
Tuesday May 22, 2012, 4:56 pm
Thank God i' have some good and decent Jewish organizations on my email list standing for human rights for everyone, are progressive, and yet manage to be religious. I have to say I'm not feeling it here from Jews on here right now.
 

Past Member (0)
Tuesday May 22, 2012, 4:59 pm
Kate Kenner

"I am not Israeli but am a Jew, albeit an atheist Jew"

What on earth is that? Are Catholics who don't believe in god "Atheist Catholics"? Of course not.
 

Vicky P. (463)
Tuesday May 22, 2012, 5:40 pm
lol, and Israel already said it wants to attack and destroy Iran, they aren't allowed to say anything to Israel??
 

Charles O. (209)
Tuesday May 22, 2012, 9:18 pm
Lots of interesting comments to respond to!

Ira H. writes:

> So lets see, Charles O thinks that Israel is happy to be threatened with annihilation.

I'm just looking at the jubilant response here from the Israel-first crowd. Israel has been ordering the U.S. to attack Iran since 2002 at least, and now -- if this story is accurate, which I doubt -- the Zionists have another club to beat us with when we refuse to obey their orders. No wonder they're ecstatic.

> the response is that's OK it's the Jews fault

It's not "The Jews" fault. It's the fault of the fascists who have been assassinating Iranian scientists, supporting anti-Iranian terrorists, blowing up Iranian military facilities, infecting Iranian computers, and strangling the Iranian economy. Why do you Zionists insist on equating these murderous fascists with all Jews everywhere? This defamatory equation seems profoundly anti-Semitic to me.

> This thread is about an Iranian general telling the world that he will annihilate a country and all of its people

That annihilation is not likely to happen. Iran's official position is that the fate of Israel-Palestine should be decided by a referendum. Iran does not have the power to "fully annihilate" anybody, and has shown no inclination to make war in the last 300 years.

The Zionists themselves destroyed Israel, way back in 1948, when they tore up U.N. Resolution 181 and started to massacre the native people. As Ahmadinejad has said, Israel is a spiritual "corpse". It's stuck in a time-warp. It seems a bit demented to make "Iran's cause" the "full annihilation" of something that's already dead.

. .

Kate Kenner writes:

> Iran has been saying this for years.

Actually Iran has not been saying this for years. Ahmadinejad said that the Israeli regime would fall as other tyrannical regimes have fallen. Predicting a regime's demise and making "full annihilation" of a country one's "cause" are two very different things.

> Still the not knowing could be a strain on Israel.

If it's a strain on Israel, then why does Israel insist on making war against Iran and dictating to the U.S.? Why can't Israel commit to living in peace with its neighbors?

Israel can start by accepting Iran's proposal for a nuclear-free zone in the Middle East. Then it can end the sanctions farce and resume normal trade.

> Israel may be small but it is a feisty nation and we Jews have been facing adversity for thousands of years.

Do you ever think about the non-Jews who face adversity because of the Zionist descent into fascism? Do you think of the Palestinians, living under Israeli occupation and bombardment for the last 44 years? Do you think Jews are the only human beings who should have rights, the only human beings who suffer, the only human beings who matter? There's something SICK about this total lack of empathy for Israel's victims.

The Zionists put ideology above reality and ethnicity above humanity. It's easy to be "feisty" when propped up by U.S. billions. But those billions can't save them from themselves. They've made an idol out of ethnicity, and idolatry is fatal.

. .

Vicky Pitchford writes:

> they aren't allowed to say anything to Israel??

It's my impression that Iranians use their words very carefully. The statement -- if it was actually made -- gives Israel everything it wants. What's the point? It seems too good to be true.

Perhaps the statement is an attempt to play to Zionist paranoia and draw the Zionists out.

Keep in mind that Israel is ALREADY making war against Iran. Should Iran just do nothing, while Israel escalates its attacks? Or should Iran try to seize the initiative and alter the course of the war? But what form would an Iranian initiative take? Retaliation against Israel would simply feed into Israel's desire to escalate. So Iran is perhaps trying a rhetorical gambit instead: Give the Israel's more rope and let them hang themselves.

Keep in mind also that Iran has nothing to lose. No matter what it does, the U.S. and Israel will attack, so there is no reason to mince words. We might as well go for broke.

See :
* Young Iranian women speak
* Iran and U.N. reach agreement
* Iran: Stereotype versus reality
* "FAQ: What is Iran like?"
 

Ira Herson (13)
Tuesday May 22, 2012, 11:28 pm
the Zionists have another club to beat us with when we refuse to obey their orders. No wonder they're ecstatic.

Who is us? It is a very emotive statement without reference. The all powerful Zionsphere. All that money?

The Saudi have billions and the fact that the Arab lobby owns over 25% of the USA treasurery So Israel might have a strong lobby but the Arab Lobby is much bigger and better funded.

Ecstatic, well maybe vindicated would be a better word. It seems to me that the Iranoshphere is pretty ecstatic.

“ Iran's official position is that the fate of Israel-Palestine should be decided by a referendum. Iran does not have the power to "fully annihilate" anybody.”

Gee not enough power huh? Could that be why they have 11,000 missiles and all this mythical atomic stuff. The stated position is to Wipe Off Israel. There are banners in Tehran stating as much. (search Google images, Iran Banners Wipe Israel)

"Why can't Israel commit to living in peace with its neighbors? "
Bad joke Charles O, Israel has had a peace treaty for 30 years with Egypt and no violations. Israel has a peace treaty with Jordan for around the same time and guess what? No war.

You have said that Iran has done nothing to Israel but Israel is always attacking Iran.
All that funding for Hamas and Hezbollah, The training and weapons, rockets and mortars fired at Israeli civilians is not attacking Israel. No Iran has not launched anything itself it has sat back and fed the war machine with terror attacks.

It has funded all the killing while standing there saying oh poor us. Don’t blame me it was the one armed man. It might be someone who looks like me but we are just peace loving Muslims that wouldn’t hurt a fly.

Some of your other comments are just as bazaar. The Zionists are forcing the USA and Europe to attack Iran because What? Such a whole list of suppositions without foundation.

Here is a scenario that you might consider.
Iran wants to rebuild the Persian Empire. They had Syria although that is falling apart now but with infiltration and terror they could take over Iraq. Turkey is becoming fundamentalist and will support Iran so with Iraq merged with Iran they could easily take on Saudi Arabia. Then they would have the Oil, Man power and with Mecca the Religious power to be the super power in the ME that would rival Europe. It would be more financially stable because it would be funded by oil and not include Greece.

The Iranosphere. Sounds more likely than Israel taking over the world. Two can play the supposition game. Unfounded speculation is fun. Generals making statements of annihilation are not fun.
 

Charles O. (209)
Wednesday May 23, 2012, 1:36 am
There is no mention of this story in the world-wide news round-up at Antiwar.Com. Apparently, Antiwar.Com does not find the story credible.

Thank you, Ira H., for the lengthy reply.

> Who is us?

"Us" means the U.S., Israel's biggest satellite. Israel-firsters led the attack on Iraq in 2003, and Israel has been ordering us to attack Iran for the last ten years. The Israeli lobby sponsors our politicians, and, in exchange, our politicians do whatever the Lobby tells them to do. If, like Paul Findley or Chuck Percy or Pete McClosky, they refuse to obey, the Lobby denounces them as "Anti-Semitic", funds their opponent, and destroys their political career.

. .

> So Israel might have a strong lobby but the Arab Lobby is much bigger and better funded.

Interesting. I suspect that the Israel and Saudi lobbies work together, but this is something I need to research. The Saudi princes certainly do not represent the Arab people!

Here's what an expert on lobbies writes:

> [Jeffrey Goldberg's] latest silly sally is to chide me for my saying that there is no meaningful "Arab lobby" in Washington. As evidence, he points out that various Arab states have paid a lot of money to various public relations firms, in a rather transparent attempt to gain some influence in Washington. The question to ask is whether these activities produce "meaningful" influence on key foreign policy issues, especially when you compare them with the lobbying groups on the other side. Once you ask that question, of course, his case collapses.

-- Stephen M. Walt, "Goldberg's latest silly sally", *Foreign Policy*, 09 Dec 2010

Walt then goes on to list key foreign policy issues, all of them decided in Israel's favor, even at the expense of U.S. interests, and he asks whether this is the work of the Arab lobby or the Israeli lobby. If the U.S. is dominated by an Arab lobby, then why do U.S. politicians declare their "absolute" and "unconditional" fealty to Israel?
 

Charles O. (209)
Wednesday May 23, 2012, 1:36 am
There is no mention of this story in the world-wide news round-up at Antiwar.Com. Apparently, Antiwar.Com does not find the story credible.

. .

Thank you, Ira H., for the lengthy reply.

> Who is us?

"Us" means the U.S., Israel's biggest satellite. Israel-firsters led the attack on Iraq in 2003, and Israel has been ordering us to attack Iran for the last ten years. The Israeli lobby sponsors our politicians, and, in exchange, our politicians do whatever the Lobby tells them to do. If, like Paul Findley or Chuck Percy or Pete McClosky, they refuse to obey, the Lobby denounces them as "Anti-Semitic", funds their opponent, and destroys their political career.

. .

> So Israel might have a strong lobby but the Arab Lobby is much bigger and better funded.

Interesting. I suspect that the Israel and Saudi lobbies work together, but this is something I need to research. The Saudi princes certainly do not represent the Arab people!

Here's what an expert on lobbies writes:

> [Jeffrey Goldberg's] latest silly sally is to chide me for my saying that there is no meaningful "Arab lobby" in Washington. As evidence, he points out that various Arab states have paid a lot of money to various public relations firms, in a rather transparent attempt to gain some influence in Washington. The question to ask is whether these activities produce "meaningful" influence on key foreign policy issues, especially when you compare them with the lobbying groups on the other side. Once you ask that question, of course, his case collapses.

-- Stephen M. Walt, "Goldberg's latest silly sally", *Foreign Policy*, 09 Dec 2010

Walt then goes on to list key foreign policy issues, all of them decided in Israel's favor, even at the expense of U.S. interests, and he asks whether this is the work of the Arab lobby or the Israeli lobby. If the U.S. is dominated by an Arab lobby, then why do U.S. politicians declare their "absolute" and "unconditional" fealty to Israel?
 

Charles O. (209)
Wednesday May 23, 2012, 1:38 am
(reply to Ira H. continues)

> Ecstatic, well maybe vindicated would be a better word.

Well, there is certainly no indication that the Zionists are depressed or distraught. They greet the prospect of war with sheer delight. But the story, so far, seems to be unconfirmed, so their "vindication" may be premature.

Look again at the list of news stories about Iran. A number of them seem encouraging, for those of us who oppose war, but Zionists show no interest in these stories. The only thing that interests them is an unconfirmed story that Israel can use as a pretext for war-making.

Seriously, Ira: If Zionists were genuinely concerned about the well-being of Jews, they would seek to avoid war and they would look for ways to build peace. But they do just the opposite. Their policy is one of suicidal belligerence. Why are you not willing to question that reckless and possibly fatal policy?

> That most Jews have never examined the founding principles of this ideology to which they cleave is unfortunate. For if they were to do so, they might be shocked at how anti-Jewish Zionism really is. Time and again, Zionists have even collaborated with open Jew-haters for the sake of political power.

-- Tim Wise, "Reflections on Zionism From a Dissident Jew", *ZNet*, 05 Sep 2001
 

Charles O. (209)
Wednesday May 23, 2012, 1:40 am
(reply to Ira H. continues)

> Could that be why they have 11,000 missiles and all this mythical atomic stuff. The stated position is to Wipe Off Israel.

There is NO evidence that Iran has nuclear weapons. Just the opposite: Iran calls for the Middle East to become a nuclear-FREE zone, and it has offered to stop even the 20% enrichment required for medical applications. The U.S. and Israel aren't interested. These are the two powers that have all of the "atomic stuff" -- and the missiles and submarines and planes to deliver it.

Let's compare annual military expenditures:

Absolute:
* - $ 687,105,000,000 -- U.S.
* -- $ 13,001,000,000 -- Israel
* --- $ 7,044,000,000 -- Iran

Rank:
* -- 1 -- U.S.
* - 18 -- Israel
* - 25 -- Iran

Per capita:
* - $ 2,141 -- U.S.
* - $ 1,882 -- Israel
* ---- $ 89 -- Iran

That tells us who puts their faith in military force and who doesn't!
 

Ira Herson (13)
Wednesday May 23, 2012, 3:08 am
Charles O, ineffectual Arab lobby- Saudi Arabia pays millions to the living ex-presidents. Bush 1 & 2 are consultants as well as many ex-congressmen and Senators. I would imagine that the Arab lobby is like the retirement plan for US politicians. Like the aerospace/arms industry is the retirement plan for ex-military.

Israel and Saudi Arabia are working together hmmmm, Interesting. So let me get this straight. You say that Saudi Arabia and Israel have a joint lobby. wow. Now that would be an interesting union. How does that work?

As to the Saudis not being a power in the Arab world or Washington, then I guess that Mecca is just a spot in the desert and OPEC is just a strip club for guys in robes.

It is an interesting comparison of what Israel has to spend to defend it self. Iran is not being threatened like Israel. The only expenditures that Iran needs to make is to the terror groups it supports like Hamas and Hezbollah. Of course the development of ICBMs is worth quite a bit huh?!


It is true that the USA has nuclear subs but Israel does not. Israel does not have ICBMs Iran does. As to Iran calling for a nuclear free zone. That is absurd. Iran calls for a nuclear free zone while spending vast amounts on building its nuclear industry. It is willing to confront everyone about how they are going to need this nuclear power with all of its vast costs and waste problems while it is a major oil producer? Yet they are happy to call for a nuclear free zone.?!

What are they smoking? I am sure that they know that Hashish is not allowed in the Koran.

This is at a time when Japan is shutting down all of its nuclear power plants because they know it is too dangerous. It all makes no sense to me. Hey! Maybe they can buy all the old reactors from Japan cheep! Save a fortune. There is one going for free at Fukusihma

So lets see Iran stop its nuclear program. What do you think they will ask for to stop?. North Korea just wanted money.

You know It is funny how the countries that want peaceful atomic power are all developing ICBMs. Hmmm?
 

Parvez Zuberi (7)
Wednesday May 23, 2012, 5:09 am
Its a well planned propaganda against Iran building up a hype to wage war against Iran by Israel their is no such thing as Annihilation of any country by Iran which is a most peace loving country you can see there record and compare same with America and Israel and the actual facts will be in front of you
 

Sarah Lee (4)
Wednesday May 23, 2012, 5:44 am
Why they keep fighting? The answer: Cos in the Holy Book, it stated the Jews and the Muslims will always be at war cos of differences in religion and sorts. That was many many many years ago.... But in modern life, I beileve we could change for the better... But why we are not... Always surprises me.
 

Alexander Werner (53)
Wednesday May 23, 2012, 5:49 am
Charles O,

Israel faces 1.5 Billions of Arabs who are obsessed with its destruction, while Arabs states are not about to attack Iran. That's 200 times more, than Iran has, because nobody had anything against Iran were it not for Iranian nukes and expansion programs.




 

Ira Herson (13)
Wednesday May 23, 2012, 5:55 am
Parves writes

Iran which is a most peace loving country you can see there record and compare same with America and Israel and the actual facts will be in front of you.

I have to say that the Shaw of Iran was not the most benevolent dictator but when he was over thrown the Iranians took the American embassy hostage and held them for over a year. Started a war with Iraq and fought of years killing and losing over a million people. And since has funded terror organisations.

So as a peace loving country their record is not so hot.
 

Charles O. (209)
Wednesday May 23, 2012, 7:42 am
Ira H. writes:

> It is an interesting comparison of what Israel has to spend to defend it self. Iran is not being threatened like Israel.

. .

The following Google map makes it obvious who is threatened:

Persian Gulf militarization

The biggest military power in history surrounds Iran on three sides. And the U.S. has repeatedly stated that all military "options" are "on the table". That includes tactical nuclear weapons.

And yet Iran spends only $89 per capita on its military, while Israel, which has the U.S. backing it up every step of the way, spends $1,882 per capita on the military. Again, that tells us who puts faith in death and destruction, and who doesn't. And when such a huge sum of money is invested in the military, one is tempted to use that investment -- to steal more land, for example.

Yes, Israel is "threatened" -- by kids with slingshots. It's "threatened" because it has spent the last 64 years trying to eradicate the several million people who have their roots in Palestine. It's "threatened" because the suicidal bellicosity of the Zionists creates blowback.

Iran is threatened by cruise missiles, B2 bombers, aircraft carriers, nuclear submarines, nuclear weapons, MEK assassins, you name it. It is under attack because it expresses support for the several million people Israel is trying to eradicate.
 

Lloyd H. (46)
Wednesday May 23, 2012, 7:56 am
Wow, from the Daily Caller now that is one disreputable source. Founded and run by Tucker Carlson who substitutes for Sean Hannity and Neil Patel former adviser to Dick Cheney. Their sole 'expert' is Josh Block a leading Neocon propagandist of AI-PAC who strives to suck the US into backing a 'preemptive' war on Iran by Israel that has absolutely no benefits for nor serves any US interests but would cost the US dearly in higher oil prices and increased anti-US terrorist recruiting. And so nice of Block et alia to without disproving anything simply dismiss those who disagree as 'radicals and pseudo-experts' including Meir Dagan, former head of Mossad, and the Chairman of the US Joint Chiefs of Staff Gan. Dempsey. It is also of note that this is the same Iranian military leader who threatened an Iranian Naval Assault on the US by an Iranian Navy that has no ships capable of trans-oceanic warfare.
 

Charles O. (209)
Wednesday May 23, 2012, 8:00 am
Ira H. writes about the Israeli and Saudi lobbies:

> Now that would be an interesting union. How does that work?

. .

Very simply. Israel agrees to let the U.S. sell F-22s to Saudi Arabia if Saudi Arabia agrees to let the U.S. give F-22s to Israel. Both powers have heavily invested in war, so they have a common interest.

However, as Stephen M. Walt argues in "Goldberg's latest silly sally", *Foreign Policy*, 09 Dec 2010, U.S. policy is tilted heavily in Israel's direction, and that is evidence that the pull of Israel's lobby is a lot stronger than the pull of Saudi Arabia.

Every year, our politicians are required to go before AIPAC and declare their "absolute" and "unconditional" subservience to Israel. I don't see them going before any Saudi lobby group and groveling, on an annual basis. And I don't see Saudi Arabia's lobby taking over our elections and deciding who should get "elected".
 

Charles O. (209)
Wednesday May 23, 2012, 8:12 am
Ira H. writes:

> It is true that the USA has nuclear subs but Israel does not. Israel does not have ICBMs Iran does. As to Iran calling for a nuclear free zone. That is absurd. Iran calls for a nuclear free zone while spending vast amounts on building its nuclear industry. It is willing to confront everyone about how they are going to need this nuclear power with all of its vast costs and waste problems while it is a major oil producer? Yet they are happy to call for a nuclear free zone.?!

Actually, Israel does have nuclear submarines, provided by Germany. And Iran does NOT have ICBMs. Do your research.

The NNPT (Nuclear Non-proliferation Treaty) allows countries to develop nuclear power in exchange for a renunciation of nuclear weapons. The nuclear-free zone applies to weapons, not to electric power generation. Iran is defending the rights conferred by the NNPT -- in effect, defending the rule of law. The U.S. and Israel are trying to abrogate the provisions of the NNPT. They are trying to destroy a law that the U.S. itself once promoted!

. .

Iran is developing various alternative energy sources -- solar power, wind power, and nuclear power. It would rather sell oil than consume oil, and it recognizes that the supply of oil is limited.

What Iran seeks is respect and independence. It wants to be a participant in world affairs. Its nuclear power program symbolizes modernization and technological progress. That's why the Iranian people support it, in the same way that we Americans once supported the space program.

I think Iran would achieve better results if it focused less on technological progress and more on human rights progress. But I don't believe in punishing countries that are simply exercising their rights.
 

Charles O. (209)
Wednesday May 23, 2012, 8:29 am
Sarah L. writes:

> Why they keep fighting? The answer: Cos in the Holy Book, it stated the Jews and the Muslims will always be at war cos of differences in religion and sorts. That was many many many years ago.... But in modern life, I beileve we could change for the better... But why we are not... Always surprises me.

. .

Since I'm not Muslim, I can't offer a definitive answer. But everything I've read indicates that Muslims regard Jews as fellow "people of the book". Down through history, Jews fleeing from Europe have been given refuge in Muslim lands. Prior to 1947, Jews were spread throughout the Middle East and many had influence and wealth. Jews and Muslims have been living together in Palestine for 1,300 years. Again, this ethnic peace ended only when the Zionists invaded and took over.

So no, Jews and Muslims have not always been at war.

The conflict today is caused by the same thing that caused WW II. It's political, not religious. Zionists have been keeping several million people under occupation and bombardment for the last 44 years. They've stolen the land that these people used to live on. Iran supports the people who are under Israel's jackboot, and Israel doesn't like that, so Israel wants to the U.S. to destroy Iran. Then Israel will have a monopoly on influence here in the U.S..

Israel is already attacking Iran -- assassinating Iranian scientists, blowing up Iranian military facilities, supporting M.e.K., an anti-Iranian terrorist group, infecting Iranian computers with a dangerous virus, strangling the Iranian economy. What can Iran do to resist this attack?

Yes, we can obviously change for the better. The addiction to war-making is self-defeating.
 

Ira Herson (13)
Wednesday May 23, 2012, 8:56 am
The Israeli subs are diesel, not nuclear (do your research) They are capable of firing rockets but not necessarily nuclear. The Australian Navy has subs too, also diesel. Big difference between nuc boats and diesel.

Iran announced that it is testing it's long range ballistic missiles capable of striking over 3000kms that would include Europe, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, China, Russia and dare I say Israel. They are MIRVs nuclear capable That was last year's news, (do your research).

Politicians court the AIPAC lobby like they do the NRA and other lobbies. they only swear an oath to the constitution. An agreement to sell weapons to Saudi and Israel do not constitute any agreements between Saudi and Israel. That is more like a deal worked out between arms sellers.

Nuclear fee in this neck of the woods means no nuclear materials at all. Australia allows US war ships into it's harbor but NZ does not. There is a big difference between non-proliferation and Nuclear Free.

I am pleased that you do not believe in punishing countries that are simply exercising their rights. So I guess you approve of Israel exercising its right to exist.

But hey you know that Iran is only kidding. they wouldn't really want to annihilate anyone.
 

Past Member (0)
Wednesday May 23, 2012, 9:17 am
Why might Iran have a legitimate case for fear over its future. This article explains this in part.

House Stealthily Passes Extreme Pro-Israel Legislation

By Philip Giraldi

Posted by the Council for the National Interest



18 May 2012







Go to Google and type in ‘H.R. 4133.’ You will discover that, apart

from a handful of blogs and alternative news sites, not a single

mainstream medium has reported the story of a congressional bill that

might well have major impact on the conduct of United States foreign

policy.



H.R. 4133, the United States-Israel Enhanced Security Cooperation Act

of 2012, was introduced into the House of Representatives of the 112th

Congress on March 5 ‘to express the sense of Congress regarding the

United States-Israel strategic relationship, to direct the president

to submit to Congress reports on United States actions to enhance this

relationship and to assist in the defense of Israel, and for other

purposes.’ The American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC)

reportedly helped draft the bill, and its co-sponsors include

Republicans Eric Cantor and Ileana Ros-Lehtinen and Democrats Howard

Berman and Steny Hoyer. Hoyer is the Democratic whip in the House of

Representatives, where Cantor is majority leader. Ros-Lehtinen heads

the Foreign Affairs Committee.



The House bill basically provides Israel with a blank check drawn on

the U.S. taxpayer to maintain its ‘qualitative military edge’ over all

of its neighbors combined. It requires the White House to prepare an

annual report on how that superiority is being maintained. The

resolution passed on May 9 by a vote of 411’2 on a ‘suspension of the

rules,’ which is intended for non-controversial legislation requiring

little debate and a quick vote.



A number of congressmen spoke on the bill, affirming their undying

dedication to the cause of Israel. Rep. Ron Paul of Texas was the only

one who spoke out against it, describing it as ‘one-sided and

counterproductive foreign policy legislation. This bill’s real intent

seems to be more saber-rattling against Iran and Syria.’ Paul also

observed that ‘this bill states that it is the policy of the United

States to ‘reaffirm the enduring commitment of the United States to

the security of the State of Israel as a Jewish state.’ However,

according to our Constitution, the policy of the United States

government should be to protect the security of the United States, not

to guarantee the religious, ethnic, or cultural composition of a

foreign country.’ Paul voted ‘no’ and was joined by only one other

representative, John Dingell of Michigan, who represents a large

Muslim constituency.



It is interesting to note what exactly the bill pledges the American

people to do on behalf of Israel. It obligates the United States to

veto resolutions critical of Israel, to provide such military support

‘as is necessary,’ to pay for the building of an anti-missile system,

to provide advanced ‘defense’ equipment (including refueling tankers,

which are offensive), to give Israel special munitions (i.e.,

bunker-busters, which are also offensive), to forward deploy more U.S.

military equipment to Israel, to offer the Israeli air force more

training and facilities in the U.S., to increase security- and

advanced-technology-program cooperation, and to extend loan guarantees

and expand intelligence-sharing (including highly sensitive satellite

imagery). Actually, there’s even more included, and I may have missed

the kitchen sink. But the objective is to provide Israel with the

resources to attack Iran, if it chooses to do so, while tying the U.S.

and Israel so closely together that whatever Benjamin Netanyahu does,

the U.S. ‘will always be there,’ as our president has so aptly put it.



But the scariest bit of the bill is its call for ‘an expanded role for

Israel within the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO), including

an enhanced presence at NATO headquarters and exercises.’ If Israel

becomes part of NATO, which is clearly Congress’s intent, the U.S. and

other members will be obligated to come to the aid of a nation that is

expanding its borders and is currently engaged in hostilities with

three of its neighbors. Israel has also initiated a series of regional

wars. Whether NATO membership for Israel would benefit anyone is

questionable, but it is something the neocons have been seeking for

years, to turn Israel’s wars into a new crusade against the Muslim

world.



And then there is the congressional propensity to conceal additional

spending in legislation that is normally passed without a great deal

of debate. It is perhaps no coincidence that on May 7 the Republican

spokesman, the redoubtable Howard ‘Buck’ McKeon, chairman of the Armed

Services Committee, released his party’s proposal for increased

defense spending (yes, increased) for 2013. McKeon, who has never

served in the military and who was holds a bachelor of science degree

in animal husbandry from Brigham Young University, is an uber-hawk who

relies heavily on campaign contributions from the defense industry.

Perhaps ‘Buck’ should consider changing his sobriquet to ‘Warbucks,’

but as he probably lacks a sense of humor, it would be wasted on him.



Included in the proposed defense bill is a cool $1 billion for Israel

to upgrade its missile defenses. Money for Israel inserted in the U.S.

defense budget suggests that Congress believes that defense of the

U.S. and defense of Israel are pretty much conjoined at the hip.

That’s on top of the $3 billion Tel Aviv already receives and the

numerous defense co-production programs that it benefits from, which

will clearly be expanded if 4133 is any indication. The media

predictably underreported the largesse for Israel with a couple of

lines hidden away in a story in The Washington Post about overall

defense spending.



Many who follow the issue have known for some time that Congress,

generally speaking, will unhesitatingly do anything to benefit Israel

and its supporters, be damned the consequences for the rest of us.

That they do it without any public scrutiny is unforgivable and is as

much the fault of the media as it is of the devious ways of America’s

legislature. If Congress wants to give Israel the type of guarantees

that would require Washington to support Tel Aviv’s foreign and

security policy, there should be a free and open debate with the

American people understanding clearly what such a commitment means in

terms of costs and consequences, not a ‘suspension of rules’ stealth

legislative package. If Buck McKeon and his friends on the House Armed

Services Committee want to give Israel a billion dollars and actually

believe it serves the U.S. national interest, why do they hide it in a

procurement bill for the defense of the United States? If historians

100 years from now seek to explain how a great power committed

seemingly intentional national suicide, they will have to look no

further than the voting record of the U.S. Congress.
 

TERRANCE N. (65)
Wednesday May 23, 2012, 12:12 pm
Good for you Stan. Now you blood thirsty Zionist can start world war 3. Do us all a favor and leave for Israel immediately and assume your position and anywhere else Netanyahu, Leiberman, and Barak tells you to go.
 

monka blanke (74)
Wednesday May 23, 2012, 12:41 pm
What I notice from some comments is that : if one dares to criticize either Jews and / or Israel, one is called "Anti -Semitic"......people even go as far as "Past Member" (The profile you are looking for could not be found ), saying "Sieg Heil". Why is it (always the same people) who are cultivating the Holocaust over and over again ? To me this doesn't make any sense. Get a grip, life goes on !
To me no "chosen" has the right of being treatened particular, (Money for Israel inserted in the U.S. defense budget suggests that Congress believes that defense of the U.S. and defense of Israel are pretty much conjoined at the hip...).
- Maybe THEN there will be peace between the nations in the Mid - east.
 

Les Lambert (197)
Wednesday May 23, 2012, 1:37 pm
Oh man, here we go again!
 

Charles O. (209)
Wednesday May 23, 2012, 2:13 pm
> The House bill basically provides Israel with a blank check drawn on the U.S. taxpayer to maintain its “qualitative military edge” over all of its neighbors combined. ....

> Paul also observed that “this bill states that it is the policy of the United States to ‘reaffirm the enduring commitment of the United States to the security of the State of Israel as a Jewish state.’ However, according to our Constitution, the policy of the United States government should be to protect the security of the United States, not to guarantee the religious, ethnic, or cultural composition of a foreign country.” ....

> But the objective is to provide Israel with the resources to attack Iran, if it chooses to do so, while tying the U.S. and Israel so closely together that whatever Benjamin Netanyahu does, the U.S. “will always be there,” as our president has so aptly put it. ....

> Included in the proposed defense bill is a cool $1 billion for Israel to upgrade its missile defenses. ....

-- Philip Giraldi, "House Passes Stealth Legislation", *antiwar.Com*, 17 May 2012

. .

The stealth is an implicit admission that the Israel-first "representatives" know they are committing treason.

 

Charles O. (209)
Wednesday May 23, 2012, 2:38 pm
Ira H. writes:

> Politicians court the AIPAC lobby like they do the NRA and other lobbies. they only swear an oath to the constitution.

But the NRA is not urging the U.S. to make war and destroy countless lives and reduce whole regions of the planet to rubble.

. .

> Nuclear fee in this neck of the woods means no nuclear materials at all. Australia allows US war ships into it's harbor but NZ does not. There is a big difference between non-proliferation and Nuclear Free.

The fact remains that Iran supports a nuclear-free zone in the Middle East. When the U.N. G.A. proposed such a zone, Iran and the Arab countries voted in favor; Israel and the U.S. voted against. That vote tells us who puts their faith in nuclear bombs and who does not.

. .

> I am pleased that you do not believe in punishing countries that are simply exercising their rights. So I guess you approve of Israel exercising its right to exist.

Rights are not unlimited. If Iran, for example, were to block IAEA inspections, then it would forfeit the rights specified in the NNPT.

What little legitimacy Israel has comes from U.N. Resolution 181. The resolution, rammed through a bitterly divided U.N. by Truman, called for two states, with Jerusalem under international control. The Zionists tore up this resolution even before the ink was dry, and they have ignored subsequent U.N. resolutions and even the Geneva Conventions. With its behavior and its total disregard for the right of others to exist, Israel has forfeited its own right to exist -- in the same way that a criminal forfeits his right to vote.

Why did Truman go against his entire cabinet? This may provide a clue:

The 1947 Stern Gang attempt to assassinate Truman
 

Ira Herson (13)
Wednesday May 23, 2012, 4:03 pm
The Stern gang were an outlaw group condemned by mainstream Jews/Israelis. It would be like saying "shining path is Peru" The real question that you have been skirting with this article is if you agree with the goals of Iran. The Annihilation of Israel.

From your arguments it is apparent that you think the end of Israel would be the end of problems in the Middle East. If it could be done without bloodshed fine but if not also fine.

You have claimed in the past that you would see a secular, democratic nation with equal rights for all. However you know that would could only be an Islamic Palestinian one.

I will not mince words, Palestinians organisations aided by Iran, Syria and others have declared war on Israel and have never stopped attacking. Their main targets are civilians. If Israel is wiped out and all killed, people like yourself that claim some moral position would say oh too bad and move on. There are millions of people Jewish, Christian and Muslim that call Israel home. Your view is that Palestinians and all who hate Israel can do no wrong and Israel and those that support it can do no right.

Israel is not expanding its borders. Israel is and has been a member of NATO for some time. This is not news. Also to say that the Congress passed legislation by stealth is wrong. It came through committees and votes. Since there is a Republican majority it has support by most of the leadership.

Charles O, It is hypocritical to say that Israel has lost it's right to exist. Based on your logic, no country has a right to exist,
 

Charles O. (209)
Wednesday May 23, 2012, 8:27 pm
Hello again, Ira H.. You write:

> The real question that you have been skirting with this article is if you agree with the goals of Iran. The Annihilation of Israel. From your arguments it is apparent that you think the end of Israel would be the end of problems in the Middle East.

. .

My goal is peace and justice for the people living in Israel-Palestine. As far as I can determine, this is Iran's goal as well.

I am joining you and other Zionists in dialogue because I have a forlorn hope that you will eventually see the light. The light is that people matter more than the state.

I often write that fascism is the ideology of national suicide, and I believe this. Bellicosity, beyond a certain point, becomes positively suicidal. With each new war, Israel makes annihilation more likely.

I oppose fascism, I oppose Zionism, I oppose war, I oppose annihilation. I offer a human solution, based on truth, justice, decency, freedom.

Not all problems in Europe ended when the Third Reich fell. But the fall of the fascists allowed sanity to return, and it then became possible to attack the problems. Notice that Germany was not "annihilated". It was liberated, freed from the insanity of fascism.

Similarly, the fall of the Zionist regime is not annihilation. It is liberation, for Jews and non-Jews. It means an end to the insanity of perpetual occupation. It means an end to the delusion of ethnic supremacy. The repudiation of Zionism will make it possible to start treating human beings as people. The moral order will be restored: The idiotic lust for war will end.
 

Charles O. (209)
Wednesday May 23, 2012, 8:46 pm
You write:

> You have claimed in the past that you would see a secular, democratic nation with equal rights for all. However you know that would could only be an Islamic Palestinian one.

When you move into a new neighborhood and you are vastly outnumbered, you have to realize that you will not control everything. Power will be shared. That's "life in the big city" -- that's something we learn when we become adults. If you want to control everything, go live in a cave, or go someplace where you are a majority.

The Zionists chose Palestine for you. They lied to you. And now you are stuck with the consequences. You have been scammed, and there is no way to make things right through war and occupation. You're just throwing good money after bad. So face reality, cut your losses, and recover your integrity. If you don't like the neighborhood, then leave. Stop trying to get the neighbors to leave. If you do like the neighborhood, then make peace with the neighbors.

I do NOT know that the Israel-Palestine Confederation would be Islamic. It could end up like Turkey, or like Lebanon, or like Kazakhstan. There was a time when secularism was strong in Palestinian culture. It's the Zionists themselves who promoted Islam: They subsidized Hamas, hoping to lure Palestinians away from the secular and more respectable PLO.
 

Charles O. (209)
Wednesday May 23, 2012, 9:13 pm
You write:

> I will not mince words, Palestinians organisations aided by Iran, Syria and others have declared war on Israel and have never stopped attacking. Their main targets are civilians. If Israel is wiped out and all killed, people like yourself that claim some moral position would say oh too bad and move on. There are millions of people Jewish, Christian and Muslim that call Israel home. Your view is that Palestinians and all who hate Israel can do no wrong and Israel and those that support it can do no right.

In reality, it is your own regime that is making war on Iran -- assassinating Iranian scientists, infecting Iranian computers, blowing up Iranian military facilities, supporting anti-Iranian terrorists. Iran has been seeking better relations with the U.S., since 1995. AIPAC blocked those efforts, because Israel cannot bear to share influence with others.

In reality, it is the Ziosphere that is making war on Syria -- fomenting a suicidal rebellion, giving heavy weaponry to the rebels, filling our media with one-sided coverage.

In reality, it is the Zionists who have been making war on the native people for the last 100 years. It is the Zionists who do 100% of the occupying and 95% of the killing, and most cycles of violence are initiated by the Zionists.

If you make war on somebody for decades, it doesn't matter how docile your victims are: Eventually, they will try to fight back.

Israel is the regional superpower. It has military, economic, political and media dominance. It has the world's biggest military empire in its pocket. So why is it that we have not moved an inch closer to peace in the last 64 years? According to the Zionists, it's because of the child throwing the stone. The two-year-old child controls everything, and there is nothing Poor Helpless Defenseless Little Israel can do.

The Zionists seem to be completely blind to their own role in this disaster. Like narcissists, they have no concept of responsibility. Instead, they project their evil onto others, and make others responsible for everything. Then they make more and more war on these others, and that achieves nothing, because the victims are not the source of the problem. The Zionists themselves are the source.

My view is that Zionists need to grow up and take responsibility for their own actions. If they succeed in starting yet another war and creating yet another holocaust in the Middle East, the entire human race will hate these narcissistic parasites, and with good reason.
 

Ira Herson (13)
Thursday May 24, 2012, 1:20 am
I have read a lot of tripe over the years but it is fantastic the way you can run on.

You keep calling the Israelis Fascists.
The definition of Fascists:.

1 a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.

2. the philosophy, principles, or methods of fascism.

3. a fascist movement, especially the one established by Mussolini in Italy 1922–43.

Israel has a democratically elected government it has proportional representation.It encourages free enterprise and speech. It has a comprehensive national health and universal education regardless of race or religion.

Lets look at Iran has a single ruling party headed up by a top cleric. Suppresses any form of descent. Only Muslims are allowed to hold office. who can run for office is decided by an Islamic panel. I would say that they are fascist.

Hamas suppresses all forms of political descent and rules with balaclava wearing gun carrying soldiers. sounds Fascist to me.

Syria, is a dictatorship, ruling party crushes any form of protest. Hmm fascist maybe? yeah lets go for it Fascist. Oh you say they hold elections? Yeah but their government has an automatic 2/3 majority so what's the use.

In fact all the countries that you admire are fascist. and the one that you hate is democratic.

Next who do you think you are? you agree with peaceful Iran that Israel should exist by referendum. Israel is a sovereign nation. You may not like it but tough. Oh and who should have this referendum? The UNHRC yes the one run by the 56 Arab states that Syria, Iran etc. all the dictatorships that suppress women. Yeah they are the real good guys you admire.

You have said over and over that you hate Fascist. So I guess that means that you hate Iran, Syria and Hamas.

Now you have asked the question why is there no peace for Israel and the Palestinians after 64 years. could it possibly be that counties run by hard line Islamic fascists have vowed to destroy Israel and have supported terror groups that strap explosives on children and make martyrs of them. Honor murderers that board public buses and shoot men, women and children. Praise young men who sneak into homes at night and slit the throats of children.

No do not call Zionists fascists without looking at your good friends Hezbollah and Hamas. Funded, armed and trained by Iran, the bastion of freedom and democracy.
 

robert zank (0)
Thursday May 24, 2012, 3:01 am
looks like more war propaganda, be careful of who controls the media and what emotions are stired up for exploitation. also remember there is a very large jewish population in iran.
 

Charles O. (209)
Thursday May 24, 2012, 6:45 am
Hello Ira H. --

My understanding of the term "fascist" is based on the powers that caused WW II --Hitler's Germany, Mussolini's Italy and Franco's Spain. The following excerpt mentions aspects of fascism that one finds both in Mussolini's Italy and in Israel today:

> The ideology of Italian Fascism was opposed to the idea that the individual human being is of intrinsic worth.

> It regarded the nation-state as the supreme entity of history, and individuals counted only insofar as they served its ends and sacrificed to achieve its greatness.

> According to Fascist thinking, nation-states which possess vitality are destined to conquer weaker countries and to create world empires.

> War between states is inevitable and desirable: the glorification of war and violence is at the heart of the Fascist creed.

-- "Fascism", *Collier's Encyclopedia*, 1993

. .

From the Palestinian vantage, Israel is indeed fascist:

* It puts the TRIBE above the individual and proclaims that "The Jews" have a right to seize what belongs to non-Jews
* It proclaims that the STATE has a supreme "Right to Exist", but denies this right to mere human beings
* It despises, mocks and conquers the weak, under the theory that "Might Makes Right"
* It makes WAR, glorifies war and treats war as inevitable

For millions of Palestinians, Israel itself is the Dictator. It controls most aspects of their lives and even taxes them, and yet they have no representation.

Here are three other hallmarks of fascism that we see in Israel:

* Ethnic supremacy, the denigration of rival ethnic groups, and dehumanization.

* The retreat into the past: The attempt to recreate an imaginary Golden Age of conquest. In Israel, we see a regression to the tribal Old Testament era, with animal sacrifice returning to the Temple Mount.

* Censorship. The Zionists censor criticism of Israel in the U.S. media and the Hasbara brotherhood censors the internet.

. .

Now look at what happened to the fascist powers in WW II. They self-destructed. Their addiction to war proved ruinous. The fascists came to power by posing as the Defenders and Protectors of the nation. But millions of people in these countries lost everything and suffered grievously, because of the arrogance and bellicosity of the fascists. The self-appointed Protectors were actually Destroyers.

If you were genuinely concerned about the well-being of the PEOPLE -- if not the Palestinian people, then at least the Jewish people -- then you would take the warning signs of fascism in Israel very seriously. You would not want Jews to suffer the same fate that Italians and Germans suffered in 1945.

Einstein, Arendt, and other prominent American Jews did take the warning signs seriously. Their 04 Dec 1948 letter to the New York Times characterizes Israel's dominant political party as "fascist". In echoing their warning, I am attempting to do you a favor.

But you don't want to hear it. For you, the state now takes precedence over the people. The state can do no wrong, and the people are expendable. You don't ask yourself where this ideology leads. You seek to recreate and preserve the Golden Age of the past, and the absence of a future does not concern you.

It concerns me.
 

Charles O. (209)
Thursday May 24, 2012, 7:04 am
Ira, you write:

> In fact all the countries that you admire are fascist. and the one that you hate is democratic.

I seek reform, liberalization and human rights in all of the countries you mentioned. What I admire is their peaceable foreign policy. I do not admire their repressive domestic policies!

My aim is to minimize bloodshed, so that evolution can do its magic. I believe in the power of modernity. I oppose war and revolution, because these things retard progress in human rights. Fanatics come to power and take us back to square one.

Israel becomes my focus, because it is the leading proponent of war.

I have criticized Muslims in the past, and I would love to be able to criticize repressive aspects of the Islamic world today. But the first priority is to survive. So my first priority is to avoid war, and that means confronting Israel head-on.

As an American patriot, I'm also duty-bound to resist the stranglehold the Zionists have acquired on the political system here in the U.S.. Our legislators are owned and operated by Israel, not by Iran and Syria. Iran has been seeking better relations with the U.S. since 1995. Our war-making is needless and hugely counter-productive.
 

Ira Herson (13)
Thursday May 24, 2012, 8:34 am
That was quite a logical little tap dance. However Israel is still a democracy with laws and individual's rights. It's government is elected, You friends are still dictatorships theocracies that practice terror tactics.

What is that about Old testament stuff, Temple mount sacrifice? Hasbara censorship of the whole Internet! WOW Love to see that happen. No if Israel was like your friends they would have bulldozed the golden dome and built a temple on it. Oh wait a minuet, The Arabs did clear off the Temple of Solomon and built a Mosque. But Israel did not do that to them did they. The only wanted to pray at the only remaining wall. Of course when Jordan controlled it they did not let them did they? hmm (freedom and justice for all) Retreat into the past. Israel is the most advanced country in the ME. High tech electronics, farming, art. The only people who look backwards are the Muslims to the golden age of the Persian Empire and the Ottoman Empire. Oh the good ol days. Women sure knew their place then o'boy.

You may not particularly like the policies of the Israeli government but it is not a fascist government. Iran , Syria, Hamas etc by definition are dictatorships and are fascist. They do not take into account individuals aspirations unless it is to further their cause.

You have tired over and over to bring up the Dec 04 1948 letter where Einstein et. al. criticized the THEN government policies. As some form of proof of today's government. good try but not germane.

Now if you say that Israel's treatment of today's Palestinians is heavy handed I will agree with you.

However to say that Israel's exisitance is an exponent of fascism then you are completely wrong.

You have idolized the governments and actions of people that commit terror. They have forsworn any decency by using religious fanatics that will kill civilians using any means to achieve their ends.

The inhumanity of people that would fire rockets into civilian towns, enter schools and machine-gun children, blow up discos and clubs abrogates any consideration. then you have aligned your self with mass murderers. Yes whatever political system they have adopted, theocratic or despotic they are murderers.

Your blind acceptance of the tactics of terror makes further discussion meaningless. You cannot say oh Iran does not commit terror. Oh yes it has, it has funded and supplied the explosives that are strapped onto suicide bombers. Usually young kids and children that are so indoctrinated with hate that paradise will await them for killing infidels.

You will say oh no I don't want little kids to do that. It is the terrible fascist Israelis that make them do that. Oh I am only for peace and puppies. No, you do not get away with that, you support terror, it is plain and simple.

You say you are doing me a favor by saying that Israel is a fascist state and that it should not be allowed to exist. In 1948 Einstein and friends said that the then dominant party was fascist. what would you call the current leadership of the Palestinians, Syrians and Iranians. I call them fascists. I call them dictatorships. I call them proponents of terror.

If you were genuinely concerned about the well being of the people and not just the Palestinians then you would be advocating for peaceful settlement and the end of terror tactics. Recognition of Israel and Palestine and open dialog without religious demands for the death of Jews. Don't try the old "Jews are always hiding behind that old saw of antisemitism." That is not the case. Your heroes Hamas' charter calls for the death of all Jews. You would say Oh they are only joking the little scamps. they do not really mean it. They would not really put plastic explosives on a women to make her look pregnant then send her to a check point to blow up soldiers. ( oh but they do!)

No, if your comments of Zionism = Fascism, then what do you call your buddies? Hamas = Murder, or Iran = Terror or would that not quite cover it?
 

Past Member (0)
Thursday May 24, 2012, 9:08 am
"Iran , Syria, Hamas etc by definition are dictatorships and are fascist"

Hamas won a free and fair election and Iran and Syria have elections.
 

Charles O. (209)
Thursday May 24, 2012, 9:55 am
Hello Ira H.. You write:

> That was quite a logical little tap dance. However Israel is still a democracy with laws and individual's rights. It's government is elected,

Does Israel rule over Palestinians? Yes. It decides what where they may travel, what roads they may use, what buildings they may build. It even taxes them.

Do Palestinians vote in Israel's elections? No. So how can Israel be a democracy? It has disenfranchised half of the population! It's a "democracy" in the same way that South Africa was a "democracy" under apartheid.

I am not your enemy, Ira H.. I am actually trying to do you a favor. Israel's current course is unsustainable. Most likely, it will lead to national suicide. I am offering you an alternative that enables Jews and non-Jews to live together peaceably and prosper together as equals. To implement this alternative, the main thing you have to give up is your ideology. Which is more important? -- human life or supremacist ideology?

Things have deteriorated enormously since 1948. If these Jews were writing today, their critique of Israel would be far harsher. See what Gilad Atzmon says about Israel, for example.

I certainly do NOT idolize "the governments and actions of people that commit terror", since I oppose violence and seek to minimize it. Your rant here rings especially hollow, since it is the Zionists who pioneered the use of terror in the Middle East. Moreover, Israel does not hesitate to use state-terror and false-flag terror, and it uses assassination to provoke terror. Israel is currently supporting anti-Iranian MeK terrorists -- though it attempted to transfer the blame to the CIA.

Studies show that suicide bombers are driven by politics, not religion. These desperate people want to free their people from occupation. Israel, as the occupying power, bears ultimate responsibility for all of the violence that its perpetual occupation engenders. What do you think is likely to happen when several million innocent people are put in an open-air prison or concentration camp and deprived of hope?

 

Lloyd H. (46)
Thursday May 24, 2012, 10:45 am
FYI, if any of you are wondering just how Neocon Loony Carlson and the The Daily Caller is consider this. The Daily Caller is giving away one FMK 9C1, high capcity hand gun per week "until our Kemyan Communist Gay President is toppled in November."
 

Past Member (0)
Thursday May 24, 2012, 11:35 am
And guess who's loony enough to have posted it and believe it? Our old mate Stan, who seems absent.
 

Charles O. (209)
Thursday May 24, 2012, 12:01 pm
Lloyd H. writes:

FYI, if any of you are wondering just how Neocon Loony Carlson and the The Daily Caller is consider this. The Daily Caller is giving away one FMK 9C1, high capcity hand gun per send green star | flag as inappropriate
week "until our Kemyan Communist Gay President is toppled in November."

Thank you, LLoyd H., for your information about the Daily Caller. I thought something was awry when I saw the ads for FrontPage mag.

But this doesn't mean that everything it publishes should be dismissed. People on the fringe sometimes see what the extremists in the center refuse to see -- e.g., that the emperor has no clothes. So I think it is good that we have taken the time to explore the current article and debunk it.

Here is a side of Iran that you will find in the Daily Caller:

* Young Iranian women speak
* Iran and U.N. reach agreement
* Iran: Stereotype versus reality
* FAQ: What is Iran like?

Though the judicial system might best be described as "barbarous", the situation is far from hopeless. Iran's peaceable foreign policy should inspire those of us who reject the cult of war-making.
 

Charles O. (209)
Thursday May 24, 2012, 12:03 pm
Correction: a side that you will NOT find in the Daily Caller!
 

Kit B. (276)
Thursday May 24, 2012, 1:55 pm

I can make positive or deeply negative comments about the internal governments of any country and though some may disagree it rarely descends into the depths of name calling that always accompanies a discussion about Israel.

I don't believe that Iran is interested in beginning a war with anyone much less Israel that is always protected by the US. As for Iran building nuclear weapons, unless or until the IAEA finds a completely different set of results - the nuclear material is for public energy use and nothing more. Why look for problems that do not exist? Politicians talk, some make outrageous statements, that's far from unique in Iran, Israel has it's own blowhards - King Netanyahu first and foremost. Israel's time would be far better spent looking inwards toward long term and satisfying negotiations with the Palestinians, then looking for non-existent enemies.

First, I want to thank Charles for his wealth of information offered here, I would hope that before arguing his points of research one might actually read them.

I don't know you Ira, but I know your style and find it most unappreciated. Your fact finding is just more of the same protectionist diatribes that refuse to look at the very real problems that exist in Israel and the Israeli policies. Israel above all countries should not be the one that enforces policies that are closely akin to apartheid, over thousands of years Jews have lived under the domination of cruel policies. Above all others they should take the obligations of a free society very seriously and not be the perpetrator of their own form of pogroms. As a born Jew I find Israeli policies aberrant and gravely disappointing.
 

TERRANCE N. (65)
Thursday May 24, 2012, 2:58 pm
Until I see Iran using it's military to occupy, bomb, assassinate heads of state, and intimidate other nations the way Israel does the Palestinians, I must give Iran the benefit of the doubt. I see Israel as highly hypocritical wanting to strike Iran for using nuclear energy while Israel possess 500 nuclear warheads.

Ultimately, the US is the one who possess the leverage to stop this hypocrisy guide Israel to a two state solution, peace with the Palestinian, and peace in the region.

It should be obvious to anyone that the governments of Israel and the US are ran by natural war mongers who will not stop until the population of the world is under the boot of the zionist entity. I give tribute and honor to the brave citizens in Tarir square, Occupy Wall, and Palestinian for putting their lives on the line so humanity can have a better future without war, poverty, ignorance, and shame.
 

Past Member (0)
Thursday May 24, 2012, 3:13 pm
TERRANCE N

"a two state solution"

I agree with your post, except for the above. There will never be a 2 state "solution", the Zionist Entity has seen to that.
 

Alexander Werner (53)
Thursday May 24, 2012, 8:36 pm
Kit, as "a born Jew" you have very little inside knowledge of the Islamic extremist teachings best represented by Ah-Crady-Inejad, also supposedly born a Jew. His doctrine of forceful speeding coming up the Mahdi is a dangerous thing.

And his Messianic craze has little to do with israel. Israel just just a cheap topic to pick in the anti-Israeli society to become popular, and Ah-Crazy-Inejad is playing it skillfully, like a decent descendant of Jewish fabric dealers.

Being Shia Muslims as he is now, his main enemies are Sunnis, best represented by Saudi Arabia.

But the main threat from Iran comes not to Israel, and not to Saudi Arabia. The threat of nuclear Iran is to the West, because stopping Ah now is not a big deal of energy or time. Stopping nuclear Ah is a scary business, and he knows it and is pushing his nukes at full speed.

Obama is no match to him...
 

Charles O. (209)
Thursday May 24, 2012, 8:55 pm
Bob A. writes:

> Ah-Crazy-Inejad

Here, Bob, I offer you a mirror.

Imagine a world where there ARE NO Enemies, no Demons, no Ogres, no super comic-book Villains, no Super Scary Madmen. Doesn't it feel good?

That's what sanity feels like.
 

Past Member (0)
Friday May 25, 2012, 1:19 am
Bob Algeron

"Ah-Crazy-Inejad"

How old are you?
 

Charles O. (209)
Friday May 25, 2012, 7:30 am
TERRANCE N. writes:

> Ultimately, the US is the one who possess the leverage to stop this hypocrisy guide Israel to a two state solution, peace with the Palestinian, and peace in the region.

I agree with John D.: The "Two-State Solution" is a non-starter. It was tried in 1947 -- U.N. Resolution 181. Shortly after the resolution was passed, Golda Meir and King Abdullah met and decided that Israel and Transjordan would attack the second state and split it between themselves -- which is exactly what happened in 1948, with Israel disingenuously posing as the "Poor Helpless Defenseless Victim" as it enlarged and engorged itself on Palestinian property.

Fortunately, there is a solution that CAN work: Treat Palestinians as fellow human beings. Abandon the ideological pretense that they are subhuman. Recognize them as fellow citizens in a new confederation.

The obvious solution is a SINGLE state, where all have EQUAL rights, regardless of race, religion, or ethnicity. This will enable moderate people of all ethnic groups to unite against the extremists.

Don't demolish the colonies: Share them! Don't demolish the roads "for Jews only": Share them! But DO tear down the Berlin Wall of Bethlehem!

A single democratic state was the Palestinian demand from 1921 onwards. Muslims, Jews, and Christians have lived together in Palestine for over a thousand years. Article 6 of the PLO Charter welcomes native Jews AS Palestinians.

Let's abandon the failed policy of forced ethnic segregation and return to what works. The American experience and the Palestinian experience prior to 1919 show that Jews and non-Jews CAN live together as EQUALS. The fundamental premise of Zionism is wrong. How many more lives must we sacrifice at the altar of this failed supremacist ideology?!
 

TERRANCE N. (65)
Friday May 25, 2012, 10:43 am
One or two states would do just find by me. Whenever there is oppression there will be resistance. Human beings are hardwired to want death as opposed to servitude, occupation, and oppression. Jails, drones, or the threat of arms will not stop humanities march to total dignity and humanity.

A perfect example is the people of Afghanistan. The British, Russians, and now the US have all attempted to subdue them. After some fifty years the US will be existing just like other powers before it. The zionist Israeli's lack the humanity to give respect to the Palestinians and other people of color. Racism guides Israel in their mistreatment of the Palestinians.
 

Carol Dreeszen (364)
Friday May 25, 2012, 11:00 pm
Well I think Israel knows they can't count on Obama to do any good!! Maybe the opposite though!
 

Ira Herson (13)
Saturday May 26, 2012, 10:37 pm
HI Terrance N.
Yes there is mistreatment of the Palestinians. It is political not racist. Your referral to people of colour as the cause is wrong.

In fact Israel has accepted more Africans by proportion than it's neighbors. SO Racism does not guide Israel. As to Israel's lack of humanity I guess you are unaware that Israel flies children with heart problems from all over the world and give them free treatment regardless of race or religion. When the earthquake hit Haiti, Israel was first on the seen with medical support, When the Tsunami hit Indonesia Israeli doctors were first on the seen even though Indonesia does not even recognize Israel. When the Fukishima nuclear melt down took place, Israelis were there as soon as they could get a plane in. So yes the Palestinians are badly treated. No the Israelis are not racist.
 

Ira Herson (13)
Sunday May 27, 2012, 5:40 am
As usual you can always count on John D to find the worst you can about Israel. Yes there are racists in Israel. Yes the articles show that social problems in Israel are terrible. I for one am always sadden by the actions of intolerance and bigotry. I have seen it in all the countries in the world. To say that Israel is itself racist is of course bigotry in reverse.
The people of Sweden are not bigots but in Malmo Jews are being terrorised by Muslim gangs. The mayor has been censured for fuelling the incidents and there is a travel warning not to go to Malmo. Does this mean that all Swedish people are anti-Semites? No of course not.
The Ethiopians that serve in the IDF and police are from areas where they had to flee the danger and cruelty of the Islamic mobs that tried to kill them. Israel for them became a haven. The fact that there are many illegal immigrants in Israel having fled from danger in Africa and having been shot at by Egyptians finally making it to Israel has been a haven. Have they encountered racism in Israel? Sadly, yes they have.
The terrible social situation in Tel Aviv is sad and the racist actions and stupidity of some people should be condemned. To say that racism is the motivation for Israel as a country is also extreme and stupid and should be condemned.
Last march 4 Jews were shot and killed in a school in France. This is an act of racism but does this mean that France is motivated by racism of course not. Should we condemn France for the killings? No and no one would. But Israel and Israelis are held to a higher standard. Why is that? Israelis are people like everyone else. Some are good and some are bad.
The terrible riot in Egypt that terrorised the Christian community and has driven out hundreds of Christians that have lived there for generations is the work of Muslim extremists. Should we condemn all Muslims? No. Is anti-Christian bigotry the motivation for Egypt? No and to say so would also be bigotry and stupidity as well.
It seems that people like to generalise about whole countries from the actions of groups within it. Should I hate all Germans for the concentration camps? No. Should I hate all Russians for the pogroms where my grandmother was shot? No. Should I condemn the people that take part in these terrible actions? Yes of course I do.
So I stand by what I said before. Israel is not motivated by racism. But are there Israeli racists? Yes of course there are.
 

Charles O. (209)
Sunday May 27, 2012, 8:13 am
Thank you, Ira H.. Common sense has finally forced you to concede the obvious: That people should be judged on the basis of their BEHAVIOR as INDIVIDUALS, not on the basis of some alleged genetic or biological affiliation with an Old Testament tribe.

If you can see that Israelis and Swedes and French are individuals, then what about Palestinians? What about Iranians? What about other non-Jews? Can't you see that they are human beings, just like you?

Wouldn't it be nice if you could work together with these people, Jews and non-Jews resisting the extremists together?

Well you can. The main thing that stands in the way is Zionism -- the idea that Jews and non-Jews must be forever at odds.

Reject that divisive ideology and allow common sense to reign. Take all of the resources Israel is spending on its war against non-Jews and apply these resources to raising the standard of living. Choose!

* life over death,
* prosperity over devastation,
* humanity over ethnicity,
* reality over ideology,
* equal rights over ethnic supremacy.
 

Past Member (0)
Sunday May 27, 2012, 8:35 am
Ira H

"The Ethiopians that serve in the IDF and police are from areas where they had to flee the danger and cruelty of the Islamic mobs that tried to kill them."

Aree you mad? Ethiopia is a mainly (70%) Christian country. The Jews mostly left because of famine after being encouraged to trek to Sudan where they'd be picked up by Entity planes.

 

Ira Herson (13)
Sunday May 27, 2012, 4:33 pm
Charles O, I have always maintained that it is the actions of people that define them. The fact that here is a strong peace movement in Israel is a sign that Israelis are interested in Peace. I have lived and worked with Palestinians and know many that are very nice people. Some have treated me better than some of my family. So your comments to me about genetic, religious or ethnic superiority is just a comment that is aimed at putting me down and attempting some moral high ground.

You have wrongly used the term fascist to describe the Israeli state as it is democratic with many parties and and proportional representation. That is even much more democratic a system than the USA.

I have agreed with you on many things. I believe in a civil rule of law. one for everyone. I agree that the Palestinian people are treated very badly. I agree that they should have a state of their own.

I disagree with you on several points about the existence of a Ziosphere ruling the USA and Europe. It ranks right up there with the Jewish Conspiracy and the Jews making the Nazis attack Poland.

I have read a post that you are a patriotic American. I was born in the USA as well and love the place. However as a fellow American I can say America has committed horrible crimes over the years. So numerous that it would take a book to list even a few.

The power of the USA is so great that it dominates the world and should be called the Amerisphere. The absurd notion that the USA is controlled by Jews and that it forces the government to act in any manner not supportive of the USA is a fantasy. America is more likely to be effected by Saudi Arabia and China than anyone else in the world.
 

Ira Herson (13)
Sunday May 27, 2012, 4:41 pm
John D. as usual your posts are meant to insult. However like most people on this list I consider the source.

The Ethiopians that were airlifted by Israel were from the Blue Nile an area that is controlled by Muslims and they felt threatened The Ethiopian Jews chart their history from the time of King Solomon and Queen Sheba. I do not know and I am not saying that it is true or correct. It is just what they say.
 

Ira Herson (13)
Sunday May 27, 2012, 6:20 pm
An interesting bit of trivia, Emperor Haile Selassie claimed that he was a descendant of the union of King Solomon and The Queen of Sheba. It gave rise to the Rastafarian belief that he was holy and a relative of Jesus Christ. The Jews of the Blue Nile claimed that their ancestors were the people that escorted the queen and her child back to Ethiopia. Do not know or care if it is true but it is an interesting story.
 

Nancy C. (798)
Tuesday May 29, 2012, 10:46 am
thanx Stan. A bit dizzy!
 
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