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Environment  (tags: habitat, energy, government )

- 3141 days ago -
What is becoming an issue in the West with gas and oil exploration, due to the number of so-called "split estates" in which a person may own the surface rights to something, but someone else buys the mineral rights.

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Sheryl G (363)
Saturday October 17, 2009, 4:17 pm
Watch the many are aware of this?

Tierney G (381)
Saturday October 17, 2009, 4:20 pm
Oh my, I don't know what to say other than we good decent people in this country and world need to start standing up and putting our foot down on greed and corporations. This made me ill. They are raping this earth!!! The greed is like a big monster growing and getting bigger we have to do something to stop them now! Thank you Dandelion excellent post!

Gorilly Girl (339)
Saturday October 17, 2009, 4:26 pm
I sure wasnt am now....Thank goodness we own all of our mineral rights. I would be PISSED if they did this crap to us....

Big gorilly Hugs

Sheryl G (363)
Saturday October 17, 2009, 4:28 pm
Gee I better get everything out in one submission.
TONIGHT is the Premier to this movie on the Planet Green. I have it on my TV channel 107 starts at 8pm EST. Go into the site under events and screenings, and you will find a Channel Finder to see if you have this channel to watch tonight.
Also in the site is an Action section so that you can add into the fight on this.
Ok guess that is it. If you miss it tonight it airs again for 3 other dates which are also listed under the events and screenings section.

Sheryl G (363)
Saturday October 17, 2009, 4:30 pm
Thanks Tierney and Gorilly Girl for commenting and having noted. Let others know of this, I'm sure these Theives would like to keep this as quiet as possible.

Janet Solomon (231)
Saturday October 17, 2009, 4:35 pm
Thank you, Dandelion--isn't it amazing at what you don't know CAN kill you--as history has proven numerous times.

Everything is connected to EVERYTHING...good grief, I thought Einstein proved that in 1919.
Namaste! xo and thank you for the timely reminder & info. xo

Gorilly Girl (339)
Saturday October 17, 2009, 4:36 pm
Oh well yeah...they are destroying peoples property and crap...I mean that dude only had 70 acres and they still put the well near their House??? What happend to directional drilling if they wanted the crap so bad...oh that would cost more monies for the frickin piping and less for their damn pockets...My bad..LOL

Big gorilly hugs

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Saturday October 17, 2009, 4:37 pm

I've just set a reminder for myself . . . I'll be watching!

gretchen Small (6)
Saturday October 17, 2009, 4:37 pm
back in the 1980's my mom belonged to a group who in protest of the mining law of 1872, staked a mining claim in themiddle of the Sun Valley golf course. They were arrested, but it was a legal mining claim, so charges were dropped. They dropped the mining claim but made their point....almost no one in this country owns the subsurface rights to their own land......appalling

Blacktiger P (247)
Saturday October 17, 2009, 4:42 pm
I FOR ONE UNDERSTAND THE SPLIT ESTATE, our farm sat on the edge of Pigeon Lake field, southwest of Leduc #1, and the folks in that area had no concern over mineral rights until were found out we did not have them. The seismograph companies came through and drilled test holes which they left and cave in happened and killed 3 of our cattle. Complaints carried no weight , in other words tough titty kitty!!

Barbara W (342)
Saturday October 17, 2009, 4:44 pm
Thank you Dandelion for this most important story. It's on it's way to Care2 and the Dare To Dream network.. I've been aware of this issue for sometime but did not know a movie was in the works..

Dan this is for DTDN and trailer..

Watch this and weep for it's victims..It's coming to a place near you.. Barbara/founder/dtdn

Split Estate

Sheryl G (363)
Saturday October 17, 2009, 4:59 pm
Thank you Barbara for adding it to the Dare To Dream Network.
I'm sorry Black T. that you have already had the unpleasure of this. As the advertisment I'm listening to now on the TV, the person said that they do not have to compensate you for any destruction done to your property. So why would they even be careful or care about your 3 cattle....they have no responsibilty towards anything.
We have always been lead to believe that we were protected in this Country, that we were not like other Countries, say Russia or China....we how protected are we really?
Show is about to start....I'll check back after it is all over. Maybe we will all have even more to say.

Rhonda Maness (580)
Saturday October 17, 2009, 5:15 pm
Thanks Dandelion!

Past Member (0)
Saturday October 17, 2009, 5:26 pm
Thanks Dandelion (and Janet for the fwd)...It's a crime!...but loved the slogan "What won't we do for oil"...Pretty basic but full of meaning...Try war, stealing land, displacing people and Halliburton AKA Cheney Inc. etc.

From the site:

Send a letter to congress at one of these websites :

Organizations have actions on their websites in support of the new national legislation which was introduced in both the House and the Senate in June of 2009, (H.R.2766 and S.1215) to close the so-called ‘Halliburton Loophole” in the Safe Drinking Water Act. Go to these sites to take action and add your voice to the effort:

(Visit site)

Standsalone Wolf (9)
Saturday October 17, 2009, 5:47 pm
nothing changes

wooddragon xx (88)
Saturday October 17, 2009, 6:03 pm
Thank you Dandelion.
Can't believe it! Hardly anyone in America owns the subsurface rights to their own land... These big unethical corporations need a big kick, they need to be brought down... Where's the compassion??
I hope more exposure will turn things around.
Things like this make me want to swear!! So, I better go before I lose my dignity!!
Peace to all...

Brad C (40)
Saturday October 17, 2009, 6:40 pm
Thank you Dandelion excellent post!

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Saturday October 17, 2009, 6:53 pm

O.K. I watched it . . . but, I'm too angry and disgusted with government and government "protection" agencies right now to even comment!

Truly, an eye-opener; and I'm glad you enlightened me with the information, Sheryl!

Sheryl G (363)
Saturday October 17, 2009, 7:05 pm
Well I just got finished watching the show that the trailer depicted. It was worse than I had even suspected. If any of you reading this tonight did not get a chance to view the show, it is on 3 other times and I suggest you try and catch it. The site denotes the days and times it is on.
If this doesn't want you to push for clean, safe, and renewable energy sources then I don't know what will. The Oil and Gas companies are EXEMPT from all sorts of things like Clean Air Act, the Clean Water Act, and the list went on. Exempt....and they don't even have to tell anyone what type of poisons they put into the ground from fracking a well, which then comes out in the air and water.
The man who was fenced off his own property, had his ancestors graveyard covered in a pile of stones, a port a potty placed there, and the headstones removed to, he doesn't know where. He put up a fence to stop it from happening again, and the Industry was going to sue HIM, on his own property!
Drilling under peoples homes so their dishes shake, fires so near their homes it was too hot to stand on their porch, accidents of all sorts, just total disregard to their property, their livestock, their water, their health. The Oil and Gas Companies do not have to make payments on anything they destroy on the people's property, it is just too bad, you want it fixed then it comes out of your own pocket, while the Industry runs off with the profits.
The Oil and Gas Companies have legalized rights to murder, rape, and plunder...pure and simple, and our Government gives the blessings, much said of Bush and Cheney on this....although it has been allowed by both parties.
They want to place more of these wells, more than half the State of Colorado will be affected but it will be moving to a State you may live in....believe it said 36 States are in the process of joining the midwestern States already in the fight. New York State, is being viewed and the area they will drill supplies NYC their drinking water.
Remember the ole' Drill Baby Drill....Sarah Palin and the rest. Yup, lets screw up our entire environment, along with giving the humans a host of terrible medical problems to deal with. I was crying when I heard that woman cry in pain as she was walking and trying to get in her car.
Again I thank all those who took the time to read the article and comment. Please try to watch the movie too.

Connie Torres (79)
Saturday October 17, 2009, 7:34 pm
Thanks for sharing it with me.

Wolfweeps Pommawolf (251)
Saturday October 17, 2009, 9:14 pm
Dandelion...I thank you so much for getting the word out there.

As a land owner here in Alaska...and Idaho....I know the laws are being challenged daily for mineral rights.
When people, famlies own property, and a land owner dies....the thought is not with what is right...but with what the freaking government wants take from you.

Wolfweeps Pommawolf (251)
Saturday October 17, 2009, 9:16 pm
Damn it that the greed follows the land trail..and damn with the consequence.

Wake up and pay attention may own the land...but the freaking governemt will find a way to rob the rug from beneath you very feet.

Sheryl G (363)
Saturday October 17, 2009, 9:21 pm
I've come to the conclusion you own nothing. One must pay property tax forever and if you don't they take the land and house. Even when you pay property tax they can come and mess up your property and no one has to pay you a cent for having done so.
The only thing your truly own is your Spirit.....protect that!

Alice B (241)
Saturday October 17, 2009, 10:33 pm
Those of us who follow the old ways know that we never own the land - the land is our Mother, our home, our teacher, our anchor - but NEVER our "possession." Because we are mortals, we own NOTHING. We all die - our chemicals go back to the Earth. Btw, I wonder when was that ridiculous and horrific point in time when humans stopped naming themselves after places and creatures of our Mother Earth - and began naming places and creatures after our ignorant and broken selves?!!! MITAKUYA OYASIN - WE ARE ALL RELATED. We humans are all infants when it comes to life on this Earth - and, sadly, some of us are VERY EVIL.

Alice B (241)
Saturday October 17, 2009, 10:35 pm
Typo: I meant to type: MITAKUYE OYASIN. (I make mistakes every day just to keep in practice...but, some mistakes must be corrected!)

Wolfweeps Pommawolf (251)
Saturday October 17, 2009, 11:18 pm
I agree with you wholeheartedly.
We have created a place..a piece of the land for a home for our family. Bought and paid for because it is a place to maintain for all furture generations, both animals and humans.
A home...a place to maintain period.
That comes with the responsiblity to care for the land...the wildlife...and even the very dirt.
We do not own...merely the care for it for our human relations who will carry on the traditions.
Of course we never own the land....but we inherit the responsiblity for it.....*S

Alice B (241)
Sunday October 18, 2009, 2:10 am
Yes, Wolfweeps - we have the same situation in our family re: land in Idaho; we have the responsibility. But I believe that no matter where we humans live, that is what we have: responsibility. Here in the USA people are brainwashed into believing that they have so many "rights" - which is a joke when you see the truth in the article we are commenting on. Actually though, the emphasis ought to be on all of our responsibilities to our Mother Earth and all if Her Children of all types - animal, plants, minerals, everything. People who are not responsible to our Mother Earth have NO rights to ANYTHING. My opinion....

Cheree M (46)
Sunday October 18, 2009, 2:32 am
What a Shame. I'm so disgusted. Thanks Dandelion for bring this issue to light.

mary f (202)
Sunday October 18, 2009, 4:12 am
thanks dandelion for posting and tierney for fowarding to me and barbara for posting on dare to dream

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Sunday October 18, 2009, 5:58 am

After the program ended, I asked my friends if they were aware of the fact that the government owns the minerals, etc. below their land and that they can lease them to someone else, who has the right to violate their property in order to evaluate the extent of the resources.

At first, they found it to be unbelievable, but on second thought, they each remembered cases in the past where they recalled that happening to relatives. Today, I'm going to do a search on mineral rights leases.

First of all, it is true that it is contrary to Native beliefs to think that land can be owned and is anything but borrowed, BUT it, and its other natural residents, are to be respected and protected for the benefit of future generations, as thanks for the gifts received from its use.

What evil-doers and monsters are governments ruled by corporations!

Sheryl G (363)
Sunday October 18, 2009, 6:38 am
Very well said Alice.

The First People of this land understood what you say and lived it. When the boat people came across they brought with them a whole different attitude that exists to this day. Some came here to get away from the society they were so unhappy with and yet instead of learning a new way from the people they met here, they fell back into the ways they wanted to leave.

As they pushed the initial inhabitants off the land, built their homes in place of, cleared the forest, they were told that this land was theirs, given to them by the King of England, go forth and multiply. However, the King was knowledgable then, for the Elites have had this taught to them from Father to son, that you only allow the people to have something until YOU want the King reclaimed all rights to what was of value below the surface...the silver, gold, diamonds or what have you.

When this new Nation was formed, by spilling blood and being based on Greed, the people who formed the Government then, were what?.....the Elites of the day. Sure make it sound good, For and By the People, but the power was still kept by the few Elites....and therefore the greed. Sure, go Homestead, claim the land with your bodies, do our dirty work killing off the people who live there, and the Govt. will give you a piece of land....however if anything of value is found below the land, just as the King of England had done, the Govt. and whoever the Govt. sells it to owns what is below the land, and has that right to go after it whenever they want.

So today they want it.....the oil, natural the past they took the gold and just shoved the Indians they shove anyone aside....don't matter, black, asian, hispanic, white, Indian are expendable and gone....move aside or stay and get sick, like some who tried to stay in their homes.

You see, it is no different today than what happened back then....and that is what the Native Peoples saw back then and warned. An excerpt from Chief Seattle he said, "We know that the white man does not understand our ways. One portion of land is the same to him as the next, for he is a stranger who comes in the night and takes from the land whatever he needs. The earth is not his brother, but his enemy, and when he has conquered it, he moves on. He leaves his father's grave behind, and he does not care. He kidnaps the earth from his children, and he does not care. His father's grave, and his children's birthright are forgotten. He treats his mother, the earth, and his brother, the sky, as things to be bought, plundered, sold like sheep or bright beads. His appetite will devour the earth and leave behind only a desert."

If you watched the show last night what did you see? Exactly what was in that portion of the quote.

A Nation not built on respect of our Earth Mother will not have any respect for anyone or anything. It will eventually eat it's own.....and it is therefore doing so. The one woman on the film who worked for one of the Gas Companies said, "well do you think we'd crap in our own nest?" Yes, Lady I hate to tell you, they very much will crap in their own nest and have been for a long long time now.

Sheryl G (363)
Sunday October 18, 2009, 6:42 am
If you did not get to watch last night it airs again TONIGHT and 2 others. See below and let others know of this so they too can view.

October 18th: 12PM EDT, 11AM CDT, 10AM MDT, and 9AM PDT

October 22nd: 11PM EDT,10PM CDT,9PM MDT, 8PM PDT

October 23rd: 3PM EDT, 2PM CDT, 1PM MDT, 12PM PDT



Sunday October 18, 2009, 11:13 am
I have it programed in my DVR for Thurs night! Thanks for sharing this Sheryl! :) I also shared it on FB and asked ppl to note this news on Care2!

Amena Andersson (187)
Sunday October 18, 2009, 11:20 am
I have tried and tried but cannot seem to load that page. Keep getting error msgs. Well, I think I've got the gist of what it is about, and, it makes me horrified and very very angry. Is there something we do? I will certainly pass this along for educational purposes. Hope those who get this link have better luck with it. I guess the program has already been aired, but, the word still needs to go out. Thanks, all.

Amena Andersson (187)
Sunday October 18, 2009, 11:22 am
Oh, I see it will be aired again. Good. Will forward.

Anumpeshi Aduddell (227)
Sunday October 18, 2009, 11:26 am
I have known of this government scam for a few yrs now, as story about a man whom bought his dream property on Lake Powell,his life savings for his retirement home,as soon as he moved in the oil riggs came drilling and said they had rights to drill on his property /and or anyones inthe USA.The reason why you pay taxes on your land is you don't own it!The government does!You don't have a Land Deed.The government does!You are now understanding how Native Americans have been treated.If you buy a piece of land,buy it with the land deed,or you could be wakeing up to a nightmare tomorrow!The USA is a scary place to live right now,other countries are getting stronger and the USA gets weaker!We have to learn to live with heart once again helping one another,compassion and nurturing,as a community of One.People do have power if they join together!Living in Peace as One.I don't own any land nor a car!Living simple is easy, no more choices.This is only the beginning of what is to come,2012 is upon us,marshall law,detention camps in the USA.So much suffering,pray for Peace in all hearts to walk as One

Kelly C (176)
Sunday October 18, 2009, 11:42 am
45 years ago in the hills where I grew up in south western NY an energy company obtain drilling leases from the farmers to drill for natural gas. The area is very rural atop shale and slate sub structure. Their operation seemed clean and innocuous enough. They found the gas and just tapped the wells, apparently waitng for the price to increase before pumping it out. I don't think they used facking back then. But I don't know for sure.

I've read that the energy companies have now moved into the north central region of Pennsylvania. I haven't heard of facking being used there, it probably is.

There was a local news story here in Denver, CO some months back. About 30 miles north of Denver in a newer residential neighborhood a fire started somehow in a backyard. Their neighbor got his garden hose out to attempt to put the fire out. His water ignited as it had natural gas in it! This is their tap water! It that crazy or what?

There is coal deposits in that region that were mined many, many years ago. The energy companies have been drilling for natural gas there for many years and they have been using the fracking process. Here in Colorado property owners do not own the water & mineral rights beneath the surface.

The Denver PBS station KRMN has aired a program about this very story. Their program centered around the western slope of Colorado. It exposed much of what "Split Estates" will expose. I've only seen the trailer, but this documentary looks to be well produced with more of the effects of fracking has on human and animal life.

I can't help but obtain the thought that energy companies think they are God. It is not good.

Thanks for heads up on this film, Dandelion.

Marion Y (322)
Sunday October 18, 2009, 11:50 am
I live in this type of environment. Our desert has rich minerals under the ground. If we were to find gold or other valuable resources on our land, it does not belong to us. We are not happy with this, but we aware of it when we bought the land. Yes, it is wrong. Thanks, Dandelion!

Sunday October 18, 2009, 12:45 pm
Yes, no matter how you look at it, the oil industry is a dirty business in more ways than one and I'm not one just yelping from the outside. As a geologist/geophysicist I used to work for the industry and know keenly how they work from the inside. They are going to make their record of mother profits regardless of ethical, environmental or business decision issues.

Shirley H (49)
Sunday October 18, 2009, 1:00 pm
Oh my Gosh, I had no idea. Thank you sooooo much for posting this.
Shirley H.

Jim P (3257)
Sunday October 18, 2009, 1:13 pm
I just mailed this information to friends who live in Montana & North Carolina as property land owners. As for me, my "space" is so small that it isn't worth the worry. The information is, however, valuable for others.

TY, Dandelion G. for the article & to Amena A. for the forward.

Sheryl G (363)
Sunday October 18, 2009, 1:16 pm
Anumpeshi words of Truth. Now everyone is beginning to understand how the Native Americans were treated.
When unjust, disrespect, and greedy behaviour is allowed to happen to one group of people it will happen to any group of people, it is all just a matter of time.

Jim P (3257)
Sunday October 18, 2009, 1:43 pm
In response to Dandelion's words, there is an element of truth regarding the Native Indians and having their lands taken away from them.

John McCain, ex-candidate for President, currently a "Senator" from Arizona, has an appalling record when it comes to Native American Indians. For more information, see the various issues on his stances in Google regarding Native Americans and their lands.


Sheryl G (363)
Sunday October 18, 2009, 2:20 pm
Thank you Jim for the information and insight. Hope the information about Split Estates helps your friends, for education may keep them from being hit broadside.

Gorilly Girl (339)
Sunday October 18, 2009, 2:29 pm
You know even though we own our mineral rights on a 100 acres makes me wonder also if they could still find some kinda loophole to get around the???? Our property is in a highly forested wilderness area....there are wells going up all around in the lower areas we are much higher up but....Our land is pristene...I wonder if they could but them without us knowing or could that even be myself worried now...hhhmmmmm

Big Gorilly Hgs

JennyLynn W (246)
Sunday October 18, 2009, 5:40 pm
Jim, unfortunately John McCain, the 'senator' from Arizona has a dismal record on most things, not just on native Americans issues but also on taking care of our military. His record on our environment and doing his job in general is two or three steps lower than dismal. Sigh. I'm hoping we get rid of him in 2010 - something to look forward to.

Blacktiger P (247)
Sunday October 18, 2009, 6:14 pm
On the other side of the coin, my Aunt and Uncle had a farm and dairy herd near the edge of the airport at Calgary. They had the mineral rights and a well was drilled back in the 50's. The airport bought the farm to extend a runway. The :donkey" pump is sitting to the far right as you look out from the observation room in the airport.. It does little work now but still sends my cousin a cheque every month, sometimes only $8-10 dollars.

greenplanet e (155)
Sunday October 18, 2009, 6:15 pm
"Split estates" and oil companies' exploitation of the land are an horrendous disrespect to Mother Earth. Leave her in peace!

Audra R (31)
Sunday October 18, 2009, 6:58 pm
This is shocking...

Roseann d (178)
Sunday October 18, 2009, 8:03 pm
Seems to me, if they can't magically extract their minerals underground w/ no surface damage, the top dwellers should win out.

. (0)
Sunday October 18, 2009, 8:35 pm
Whatever happened to environemntal laws.. and ethical practices.. seems they have erased it out of their vocabulary.. and replaced it with unethical business pratices

Sheryl G (363)
Monday October 19, 2009, 6:56 am
Roseann, logically one would think that, but unfortunately we do not have the powerful thinking that way. They see $ all logic goes out the window. What is even worse is they do not have to compensate the top surface owners to any damage they may have caused.

Jamie C (282)
Monday October 19, 2009, 10:49 am
In some areas the residents who used to live there voluntarily signed over their mineral rights for some cash. That loss of mineral rights doesn't go away when the property is sold. You have to check into what you are buying.

Julie van Niekerk (230)
Thursday October 29, 2009, 6:57 am
Sounds very underhanded to me!

kathryn cook (628)
Friday February 26, 2010, 11:06 am
The tragic/sad irony is the US Government took Indian Land (MANIFEST DESTINY crap)sent them (the Indians) West gave them other Indian lands put all sorts of different Tribes on/in Reservation then told them this was there land (Do I have this correct so far?) Now, because there is "gold in them thar mountains" The corporations - government come back and take this Treatied lands back - no one can stop them and these people are not even allowed to defend themselves? They are not allowed to defend there rights to these lands because of a loophole? Fine print? No one was thinking about gold and mineral rights when these treaties were written. This is Pure Bull Shit sorry - one of the Senators from Colorado is a full fledged Indian Chief - Ben Nighthawk - cant we appeal to him to do something for his peoples no matter where they are?
This really cannot simply be ignored! We really cannot allow this to be swept under the carpet!! I wish I was younger, I'd go back to Law school and fight for these peoples rights.

Eileen Novak (444)
Thursday May 26, 2011, 5:47 pm
Glad you reposted this Dandelion. You're the best.
Horrendous split estates is the worst.
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