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Muslim Brotherhood Operatives Barack Obama And John Brennan


US Politics & Gov't  (tags: abuse, obamaadministration, corruption, cover-up, crime, democrats, dishonesty, ethics, government, lies, news, obama, propaganda, terrorism, usa )

Carol
- 578 days ago - youtube.com
The Council on American Islamic Relations (CAIR) and the Islamic Society of North America (ISNA) were found to be unindicted co-conspirators in the largest terrorist-funding trial in U.S. history--the 2008 Holy Land Foundation trial.



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Comments

Carol Dreeszen (364)
Saturday February 16, 2013, 11:41 am
The Council on American Islamic Relations (CAIR) and the Islamic Society of North America (ISNA) were found to be unindicted co-conspirators in the largest terrorist-funding trial in U.S. history—the 2008 Holy Land Foundation trial.

Yet the Obama administration has not only had contact with these groups, but has brought them into the White House—embraced them would be a more proper term—having “hundreds” of meetings beginning almost immediately after Obama ascended to power.

According to a Daily Caller investigation:

In 2009, a judge confirmed the Justice Department’s decision to name CAIR as an unindicted conspirator in the Holy Land Foundation conspiracy to smuggle funds to HAMAS, which is a jihadi affiliate of the Egypt-based brotherhood. Five men in the smuggling ring were sentenced to jail in 2009, including two who were given 65-year sentences.

Obama’s current chief counterterrorism advisor and CIA head appointee John Brennan spoke at an ISNA-sponsored (and White House approved) conference in February of 2010. Brennan used his time to parrot Barack Obama’s often-quoted meme about how great of a religion Islam was, about the “goodness and beauty of Islam,” that “Islam is a religion of peace,” etc. Brennan failed to explain, however, why jihadists continually refer to this “religion of peace” while strapping on suicide vests. Nor did he explain that the Holy Land Foundation trial named ISNA as a Muslim Brotherhood front group.

In October of 2011, the group Muslim Advocates wrote a letter signed by fifty-seven Muslim organizations, whose main signatories were CAIR and ISNA, demanding the Obama administration remove “bigoted” language found in FBI training materials— terms like “jihad” and “Islamist,” the rationale being that these terms “offended” Muslims.

Brennan responded to the letter personally and not only purged FBI training materials but implemented a mandatory re-training program for FBI agents; U.S. Army officers; and all federal, state, and local law enforcement who had been subjected to “biased training.” Those who refused to tow the politically correct line, like war hero and Army trainer Lt. Colonel Matthew Dooley, were summarily blacklisted.

Instead of purging FBI training materials of anything that “offends” the Muslim Brotherhood, America should purge this country of Muslim Brotherhood operatives John Brennan and Barack Hussein Obama.
 

Carol Dreeszen (364)
Saturday February 16, 2013, 11:46 am
AMEN to this!!!!!!!
 

Allan Yorkowitz (453)
Saturday February 16, 2013, 11:51 am
Brennen would of course speak out against exposed Islamic terrorism. He wants to get appointed. The point is, Obama wants to put a man with a sympathy for the Brotherhood into our government. This is a dangerous President, and I wish the Congress would simply declare the truth.
 

Jae A. (323)
Saturday February 16, 2013, 1:08 pm
Are they the same that Bush backed..ya know his families good friends the Muslim Royals in Saudi Arabia ? Personally I don't care to have anyone who believes in any religion...as they are for the most part war mongering/racist... in any government office, but that's just not how ours works. Muslim/Christan/Jewish..the top three warmongering, racist religions on the plantet in my opinion...and in that order.
 

Arthur S. (88)
Saturday February 16, 2013, 1:26 pm
Thank you Carol!
 

Carol Dreeszen (364)
Saturday February 16, 2013, 1:36 pm
Sorry Allan..Can't send you another green star yet! You are so right...Obama is one VERY dangerous man along with Brennan!! I have never seen so many lies in a government that are so blatant!

Jae....That's really sad you have no faith or anything positive to believe in..it shows!!

You are very welcome Arthur and Thank You!!
 

Kevin A. (68)
Saturday February 16, 2013, 2:30 pm
I agree with Jae, Religion has no place in government. Our founding fathers were aware of that and took steps to ensure that such conflicts would be avoided. I have no problem with others having their beliefs, but no religion has the right to impose their beliefs on others through governmental actions. Freedom of religion includes freedom from religion.

I am personally appalled by history's repeated atrocities committed by man in the name of God, through "My god is better than your god" contests perpetuated by megalomaniacs.Once again we have people trying to force their version of morals on everyone else.
 

Carol Dreeszen (364)
Saturday February 16, 2013, 2:46 pm
The problem here that Jae made is this is not about religion....this is about putting in power in our government the Muslim Brotherhood which is a radical group of Muslims trying to take over the world..they could care less about people turning towards Islam..they use that as a fear factor in order to gain control of the world and doing a very good job of it. Our government does not have or has never tried to force any form of religion on anyone...except for now with OBAMA. Morals are just that.. morals...they do not have to be religious in form! Obama is the one who is bringing this Muslim Brotherhood INTO our government..so if anyone is to blame for what Jae claims as religionIN government it is Obama but he refuses to blame Obama for anything!
 

Abu Ali (0)
Saturday February 16, 2013, 4:21 pm
This sounds like a horrible conspiracy theory.
 

Maria B. (7)
Saturday February 16, 2013, 4:45 pm
Thanks Carol!
It is also very concerning, that Brennan was asked in his hearings if he thinks that Obama and his adminstration has the power and the authority to kill American citizen on AMERICAN SOIL !!
He refused to answer this question. Then he got this question in writing, so he could give a written answer ..
guess what ? ...... he refused to answer again !!
This should be very concerning to everybody , the left and the right !!!
 

Lee Hampton (15)
Saturday February 16, 2013, 8:36 pm
Thank you, Carol.

This information and similar to it have been surfacing now in the past week in a number of places. This is crucial to know.

It is also suspected, and not without good reason, by operatives in the FBI that Brennan is a closet convert to Islam.

Obama's stacking the deck with Muslims, Arabists, and Muslim immigrants.

Watch out!
 

Lee Hampton (15)
Saturday February 16, 2013, 8:41 pm
More to add, Carol,

From: http://politicalvelcraft.org/2012/06/18/criminal-54-members-of-congress-commit-treason-taking-money-from-hamas/

54 Members of Congress Accepted Money From Hamas Terrorists: Federal Judge Confirms CAIR Are Hamas Terrorists!
By Volubrjotr on June 18, 2012
Federal Judge Confirms CAIR ~ Are Hamas Terrorists.

In Case There are Any Doubts…

Hamas is a U.S. State Department-designated terrorist organization that professes to be a “Nation of Jihad”.1, 2
CAIR is a front organization of Hamas.3
At least 54 Members of Congress are aiding, working with, taking money from and/or acting as a front for CAIR (i.e., Hamas, i.e., a U.S. State Department-designated terrorist organization).4

The Palestine Authority has long been considered an entity supporting terrorism.5, 6, 7, 8 Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama have given nearly $600 Million in taxpayer money to the Palestine Authority.9
Barack Obama and his Administration have close ties with Islamic radicals, CAIR, terrorists and terrorist organizations and they have implemented an agenda that supports terrorism.10, 11
The publicly available evidence is abundant, clear as glass and cannot be ignored by any rational person. 54 Congressmen, Obama and Hillary are aiding terrorists and should be immediately arrested.
Okay, America, it’s time for us to force our government to drop its charade. We have terrorists, communists, socialists and criminals running our country and driving it into the dirt.12 Now we have clear and sufficient evidence to demand a historic investigation of these criminal elements.
If the new House of Representatives does not immediately investigate, prosecute, impeach and/or jail these people for crimes, then America must assume that Republicans are active members of a now openly visible, terrorist Mafia organization that cannot be trusted to run the USA in the interest of law-abiding citizens. In fact, if the GOP House does not take immediate action on this terrorist issue, logic would dictate to any reasonable person that terrorists have captured our government and that citizens must act immediately to protect themselves and their country from further harm or potential death.
You don’t want to live in a terrorist country, do you? Send this article to your Congressman today and tell that anything short of IMMEDIATE public investigations and/or arrests beginning on January 5, 2011 is not an acceptable response. Spread the word to your family and friends! ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!


Congressman Issa… Are you Listening?

Congressman Issa

Oversight And Government Reform Committee Team: To Investigate Obama After November Elections

treason |ˈtrēzən|noun (also high treason)

The crime of betraying one’s country, esp. by attempting to kill the sovereign (We The People) ~ or overthrow the government : they were convicted of treason.• the action of betraying someone or something : doubt is the ultimate treason againstfaith.

treason \noun \ the treason of Benedict Arnold will be recounted for centuries:

treachery, disloyalty, betrayal, faithlessness; sedition, subversion, mutiny, rebellion; high treason, lèse-majesté; apostasy; literary perfidy. ANTONYMS allegiance, loyalty.
NUREMBERG PRINCIPLES
Principle I

Principle I states, “Any person who commits an act which constitutes a crime under international law is responsible therefor and liable to punishment.”
Principle II

Principle II states, “The fact that internal law does not impose a penalty for an act which constitutes a crime under international law does not relieve the person who committed the act from responsibility under international law.”
Principle III

Principle III states, “The fact that a person who committed an act which constitutes a crime under international law acted as Head of State or responsible government official does not relieve him from responsibility under international law.”
Principle IV

Principle IV states: “The fact that a person acted pursuant to order of his Government or of a superior does not relieve him from responsibility under international law, provided a moral choice was in fact possible to him”.

This principle could be paraphrased as follows: “It is not an acceptable excuse to say ‘I was just following my superior’s orders’”.

Previous to the time of the Nuremberg Trials, this excuse was known in common parlance as “Superior Orders“. After the prominent, high profile event of the Nuremberg Trials, that excuse is now referred to by many as “Nuremberg Defense“.

In recent times, a third term, “Lawful orders” has become common parlance for some people. All three terms are in use today, and they all have slightly different nuances of meaning, depending on the context in which they are used.

Nuremberg Principle IV is legally supported by the jurisprudence found in certain articles in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights which deal indirectly with conscientious objection.

It is also supported by the principles found in paragraph 171 of the Handbook on Procedures and Criteria for Determining Refugee Status which was issued by the Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR).

Those principles deal with the conditions under which conscientious objectors can apply for refugee status in another country if they face persecution in their own country for refusing to participate in an illegal war.
Principle V

Principle V states, “Any person charged with a crime under international law has the right to a fair trial on the facts and law.”
Principle VI

Principle VI states,

“The crimes hereinafter set out are punishable as crimes under international law:

(a) Crimes against peace:

(i) Planning, preparation, initiation or waging of a war of aggression or a war in violation of international treaties, agreements or assurances;

(ii) Participation in a common plan or conspiracy for the accomplishment of any of the acts mentioned under (i).

(b) War crimes:

Violations of the laws or customs of war which include, but are not limited to, murder, ill-treatment or deportation of slave labor or for any other purpose of the civilian population of or in occupied territory; murder or ill-treatment of prisoners of war or persons on the Seas, killing of hostages, plunder of public or private property, wanton destruction of cities, towns, or villages, or devastation not justified by military necessity.

(c) Crimes against humanity:

Murder, extermination, enslavement, deportation and other inhumane acts done against any civilian population, or persecutions on political, racial, or religious grounds, when such acts are done or such persecutions are carried on in execution of or in connection with any crime against peace or any war crime.”

Principle VII

Principle VII states, “Complicity in the commission of a crime against peace, a war crime, or a crime against humanity as set forth in Principle VI is a crime under international law.”

And trials there must be. No matter the cost, the nest of vipers on Capitol Hill, and all of the traitors in the government at large, must be brought to task for their behavior, or a free America is doomed.
Milquetoast Fox News, which is financed by the same Saudi prince funding CAIR – continue to invite Awad and other CAIR leaders on the air to argue against airport profiling and other issues on CAIR’s agenda. Fox has offered CAIR guests full segments unopposed by critics and without viewer caveats regarding CAIR’s court-documented terror connections.

The 20-page order, signed by U.S. District Judge Jorge A. Solis, cites “ample evidence” that CAIR participated in a “criminal conspiracy” led by the Holy Land Foundation, Hamas’s main fundraising arm in the U.S. As a result, the judge refused CAIR’s request to strike its name from documents listing it as an unindicted co-conspirator in the case.

IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE NORTHERN DISTRICT OF TEXAS DALLAS DIVISION

It is therefore ordered that the District Clerk for the Northern District of Texas shall file and seal the Amicus Curaie Brief of the Council on American-Islamic Relations in Support of the Unindicted Co-Conspirators’ First and Fifth Amendment Rights, which has been decided herein.

The Clerk shall also seal Attachment A to the Government’s Trial Brief, filed May 29, 2007 [Docket No. 656]. It is also ordered that all pleadings, records, documents, orders and other papers concerning (1) CAIR’s Amicus Brief, (2) CAIR’s Motion for Leave to file Amicus Brief, and (3) ISNA’s and NAIT’s Motion [Docket Nos. 777, 778, 797, 799, 850, 851] including this Order be sealed. All these documents shall be kept sealed until further order of this Court.

It is so ORDERED, this 1st

3:04-CR-0240-P Order Page 20 of 20

day of July 2009.

_________________________________ JORGE A. SOLIS UNITED STATES DISTRICT JUDGE

HERE ARE THE ANTI-SEMITES:
Arizona

Raul Grijalva

California

Lois Capps
Sam Farr
Bob Filner
Barbara Lee
Loretta Sanchez
Pete Stark
Michael Honda
Lynn Woolsey
Jackie Speier
Diane Watson
George Miller

Connecticut

Jim Himes

Indiana

Andre Carson

Iowa

Bruce Braley

Kentucky

John Yarmuth

Maryland

Elijah Cummings
Donna Edwards

Massachusetts

Michael Capuano
William Delahunt
Jim McGovern
John Tierney
John Olver
Stephen Lynch

Michigan

John Conyers
John Dingell
Carolyn Kilpatrick

Minnesota

Keith Ellison
Betty McCollum
James Oberstar

New Jersey

Donald Payne
Rush Holt
Bill Pascrell

New York

Yvette Clarke
Maurice Hinchey
Paul Tonko
Eric Massa

North Carolina

David Price

Ohio

Mary Jo Kilroy
Marcy Kaptur

Oregon

Earl Blumenauer
Peter DeFazio

Pennsylvania

Chaka Fattah
Joe Sestak

Vermont

Peter Welch

Virginia

Jim Moran

Washington

Jim McDermott
Adam Smith
Jay Inslee
Brian Baird

West Virginia

Nick Rahall

Wisconsin

Tammy Baldwin
Gwen Moore

Virginia

Glenn Nye

CommieBlaster
If Americans Attacked CAIR (Council on American-Islamic Relations) [sic]: Would It Be Patriotism Or Terrorism? – CAIR speaker to Muslims: “Ok To ATTACK Fort Bragg”
Genocide By Muslim Brotherhood! Obama In Cairo Glorifying Islam, While Christians Are Forced To Suffer In Cairo!

“Muslims are the vilest of animals…”

“Show mercy to one another, but be ruthless to Muslims”

“How perverse are Muslims!”

“Strike off the heads of Muslims, as well as their fingertips”

“Fight those Muslims who are near to you”

“Muslim mischief makers should be murdered or crucified”

Hate speech? Incitement to violence? Sounds like it to us, but a knowledgeable Muslim would have to disagree. Why would Muslims not consider this to be hate speech?

How is it that we can post these quotes with full certainty that CAIR won’t be contacting the media (or Congress) with wild-eyed accusations of Islamophobia?

Well, for one thing, we don’t actually agree with any of these disgusting statements, of course. But the real reason is that Muslims themselves honestly believe these quotes to be the literal, eternal word of Allah. In fact, CAIR is promoting this hate speech on their own website!

It is actively propagating the very literature that contains these comments, even while sanctimoniously claiming that it is working against hate and violence.

But… isn’t CAIR a Muslim organization? What’s the catch? Well, if you haven’t guessed it already, these are quotes from the Qur’an in which we’ve replaced the word ‘Christian’, ‘Jew’ or ‘unbeliever’ with the word ‘Muslim.’

Here is how they actually appear in the literature that groups like CAIR are pushing:

Sura (8:55) – Surely the vilest of animals in Allah’s sight are those who disbelieve

Sura (48:29) – Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard (ruthless) against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves

Sura (9:30) – And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah, and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah… Allah (Himself) fights against them. How perverse are they!

Sura (8:12) – I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them

Sura (9:123) – O you who believe! Fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness

Sura (5:33) – The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement

TheReligionofPeace – CAIR’s Hate Speech

REFERENCES

1.www.state.gov/s/ct/rls/other/des/123085.htm

2.atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2010/12/hamas-prime-minister-haniya-we-are-a-nation-of-jihad-.html

3.www.wnd.com/?pageId=232181

4.www.rightsidenews.com/201001278384/us/politics-and-economics/hamas-54-democratic-congressmen.html

5. www.jcpa.org/art/brief1-11.htm

6.www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Government/Communiques/2001/The%20Palestinian%20Authority%20and%20Terrorism%20-%20Picture

7. www.investigativeproject.org/blog/2010/07/palestinian-authority-again-honors-terrorist

8. www.state.gov/s/ct/rls/crt/2009/140889.htm

9. www.voanews.com/english/news/middle-east/US-Announces-Additional-Palestinian-Aid–107047048.html

10. www.commieblaster.com/obama/

11. www.commieblaster.com/world_obama/

12. www.commieblaster.com/progressives/
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Carol Dreeszen (364)
Saturday February 16, 2013, 8:43 pm
Abu...NOTHING about it is conspiracy!!! It's all FACTS,,check it out yourself!! Your name almost sounds Muslim...is it!?

Maria and Lee...Thanks so much! This guy is a Muslim/Islam lover and has converted to Islam in all that I have read about him...THAT in itself SHOULD BE a big RED flag to any American! How any American can sit by and watch these people try and take over our country that many men and women have fought and died for is beyond any comprehension of any sane person to understand! It is flagrantly IMO showing they are traitors to this country!!
 

Carol Dreeszen (364)
Saturday February 16, 2013, 8:49 pm
Oh MY Gosh Lee!!!!!!! This kind of information needs to get out where all Americans can read it and I appreciate so much you adding this on here! These people are traitors to this country and come 2014 and 2016 these members of Congress need to be brought up with this BS and flushed OUT!!! Right now is the time to wake up and make people aware of the traitors in our government! We have to all be the waking TIGERS for our country and blow these people's plans to kingdom come!!! God Help US!!!
 

Carol Dreeszen (364)
Saturday February 16, 2013, 8:51 pm
Keith Ellison/MN is a Muslim!! He has been pushing the Muslim agenda for a long time! He needs to go too!
 

Abu Ali (0)
Saturday February 16, 2013, 8:59 pm
Well yeah, I am actually a Muslim. I can tell you that we don't really have a plan to overthrow America or anything.
 

Patricia Martin (19)
Saturday February 16, 2013, 9:02 pm
Dear Carol,

Here's some more on Brennan that's come up recently:

Tom Trento digs up more dirt on John Brennan, outed convert to Islam and Muslim Brotherhood operative
johnbrennan20percenttokillamericansBarack Hussein Obama’s next pick for CIA Director, John Brennan, a recently exposed Muslim convert, is behind a heavy weapons (MANPADS) and gun running operation to the Muslim Brotherhood and al-Qaeda operatives in Syria.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Mo65e2JCFB0


Also,

Did you know that John Brennan, nominee for CIA Director, is almost certainly Muslim convert who was turned to Islam by the Muslim Brotherhood?

(Bumping this up as it is very important for as many Americans as possible to see it. Please share it with your contacts)

On Tom Trento’s radio show yesterday, former FBI agent, John Guandolo, who wrote the first Muslim Brotherhood training manual for the FBI, outs John Brennan, Obama’s nominee for CIA Director, as having converted to Islam while working in Saudi Arabia.

Imagine having a CIA Director who thinks like this…

The President’s strategy is absolutely clear about the threat we face. Our enemy is not “terrorism” because terrorism is but a tactic. Our enemy is not “terror” because terror is a state of mind, and as Americans we refuse to live in fear. Nor do we describe our enemy as “jihadists” or “Islamists” because jihad is a holy struggle, a legitimate tenet of Islam.

Check it out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=9S73fkmE0Is

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=7VQbAhqHoAo

CAIR Islamists object to nomination of John Brennan, an Islamist’s best friend, for CIA Director
Muslim Brotherhood proxy, terror-linked CAIR (Council on AntiAmerican-Islamic Relations) is upset over Barack Hussin Obama’s choice for CIA Director because of his support for the drone program and enhanced interrogation techniques.

foxnation-20100527

But, but, but…John Brennan is the same official who insists on reaching out to “moderate” elements of the Hezbollah terror group. He also believes that 20% recidivism rate for Gitmo detainees is not that bad and he likes to call Jerusalem “Al-Quds,” its Palestinian name. John Brennan also stopped the capture of Bin Laden in 1998… Said jihad is “Holy Struggle” and ignored Christmas Day bomber intelligence. From a Fox News article published on May 27, 2010: The president’s top counterterrorism adviser on Wednesday called jihad a “legitimate tenet of Islam,” arguing that the term “jihadists” should not be used to describe America’s enemies.

CAIR thugs said they are troubled by Brennan’s involvement with America’s worldwide campaign of targeted killings using drones, his past support for interrogation techniques that have been termed “torture” by human rights groups and for extraordinary rendition — the Bush administration practice of abducting terror suspects and sending them to other countries to be tortured.

johnbrennan20percenttokillamericans
In a statement, CAIR National Executive Director Nihad Awad, Hamas and Hezbollah supporter, said:

c5c3553ef0128759f1db2970c320wi-vi

“In John Brennan we have an ‘architect’ of the secret, unaccountable and counterproductive campaign of targeted killings that may violate international laws of war and continues to generate hostility to our nation around the world.
“As noted by The New Yorker magazine, ‘Brennan has helped construct and justify the Administration’s claim that it can kill people, including American citizens, abroad on its own authority, even when those people are not in countries with which we are at war.’
“In this nominee, we also have an individual who sought to provide legal justification for the rendition and torture of suspects in secret prisons. Mr. Brennan has admitted he was ‘intimately familiar now over the past decade with the cases of rendition,’ which he praised as ‘an absolutely vital tool.’
“In a 2007 interview with CBS, Mr. Brennan endorsed the CIA’s ‘enhanced interrogation tactics‘ — short of waterboarding — and defended then attorney general nominee Michael Mukasey’s refusal to say whether waterboarding amounted to torture.
“Mr. Brennan must be questioned on these important issues impacting the rule of law, respect for human rights and America’s standing in history.”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ZqM4rK5uFoQ

Thanks for putting this out there Carol!

 

Patricia Martin (19)
Saturday February 16, 2013, 9:05 pm
Somebody found Abu's comment in another thread and he said that he was an ex-Muslim.

Which is it Abu, is your first statment a lie or are you lying about it this time?

It sure sounds like you've been trying to play down all the news that's coming up. And that's only about a millionth of what's going on.
 

Diane B. (275)
Saturday February 16, 2013, 9:11 pm
thanks for this information Caroldear
 

Abu Ali (0)
Saturday February 16, 2013, 9:13 pm
You know what, I don't think this is about Islam. You are just jealous because we can sandboard and you can't. http://muslimmedianetwork.com/mmn/windows-live-pictures/08b37ebc55fb_D2AB/extreme-sports-wallpaper-sand-boarding.jpg
 

Patricia Martin (19)
Saturday February 16, 2013, 9:18 pm
Abu Ali, Saturday February 16, 2013, 8:59 pm

"Well yeah, I am actually a Muslim"

Abu Ali, Saturday February 16, 2013, 9:06 pm

"I am an Ex-Muslim"

So you just destroyed your own credibility. You've just written two opposing statements, each mutually exclusive of each other. One of these is a lie.

Islam is a horrible, violent, hateful, irrational, deceitful religion, and we want people to know what they're getting into, when Muslims serve in the highest levels of the U.S. Government.

Islam, Sharia, is completely opposed to the principles upon which the U.S. is based. Islam is trying to create a world Caliphate.

Wherever Islam is, there is war, struggle, violence, Dar al Kharb.

That doesn't mean ALL Muslims are bad people. Islamists certainly are.
 

Carol Dreeszen (364)
Saturday February 16, 2013, 9:25 pm
Abu...Everything I have seen you say here so far is a complete and utter LIE...good work! I can see you are still doing the work that Muslims are known for! Either you are or you are not and when you make claims against Americans like you just did you PROVE to me the fact that Muslims are told in the Koran and it is EXPECTED of them to LIE to get whatever they want! Sorry...I have no respect for you or the way you think!
 

Abu Ali (0)
Saturday February 16, 2013, 9:27 pm
Do you even know ANYTHING about Islam? Islam states that just like all other religions that you shouldn't kill anyone and blah blah blah. People that are violent Islamics make a bad name for the rest of them, they're the ones who get media attention. I mean would you rather read, "Islamic guy does good thing", or, "Radical Islamic Group kills guys". Nothing about the religion creates hate, it's mostly due to poverty and some other elements.

I mean look at Saudi Arabia, that's a developed westernized Islamic country, do you hear of any terrorists there? No. That's probably because it isn't a poverty riddled hell hole like Afghanistan. Look at Nazi Germany. The entire reason why Hitler took power was because Germany was in a state of poverty and that caused hate and violence.

How about we stop hating each other, grab a snowboard and go sandboarding huh?
 

Abu Ali (0)
Saturday February 16, 2013, 9:32 pm
Oh, another example supporting this, look at most of Africa. They have a load of terrorists there and guess what? They're not Islamic, and guess what? A lot of Africa lives in diseased riddled poverty.
 

Carol Dreeszen (364)
Saturday February 16, 2013, 9:32 pm
Thanks so much Patricia for adding on this gold mine of information! I knew all of this stuff or most of it and it seems the only way to get people to know what's going on is to keep stuffing it in their faces! Something has to give!!! Or someone!!

Thanks so much Diane!!
 

Carol Dreeszen (364)
Saturday February 16, 2013, 9:35 pm
Dang Patricia!! I can't send you another green star!!!But I am in heart and mind!! :-)
 

Patricia Martin (19)
Saturday February 16, 2013, 9:39 pm
Oh, bullcrap, Abu.

If you kill a Kaffir in an Islamic country, do you get the same punishment as if you kill a Muslim.

Either you're an ignorant Muslim or one good at Taqiyya.

It's mostly due to poverty, hmmm? I guess Bin Laden was poor, Alawaki was poor. No, Abu, the profile of the masterminding Islamic terrorist are RICH.

Do we hear of terrorists from Saudi Arabia??????? Are you serious????????

Most of the 9/11 hijackers were Saudis and a few were Egyptian.

What have you been smoking?

Look at Nazi Germany's influence on the Muslim Brotherhood's Hassan al-Banna and Jerusalem's Grand Mufti, Amin El-Husseini! Hitler, the Nazis and the MB and Husseini were fabulous mutual admirers of each other.

Islam and Nazism have a lot in common. They're both fascist, hateful, viciously antisemitic, anti-democracy, anti-freedom, anti-individual rights.

I don't hate you, Abu. I just want to you be an honest and informed person, and own up to your responsibility not to write a bunch of lying crap.

I DO like that you're showing a bit of a sense of humor. One point for Abu.
 

Carol Dreeszen (364)
Saturday February 16, 2013, 9:53 pm
The entire reason why Hitler took power was because Germany was in a state of poverty and that caused hate and violence.

And the worst thing Hitler did was USE THE PEOPLE because of this...just like the Islamic terrorists USE their own people and then crap on them as well as everyone else! Would you believe I have several very good Muslims friends in Iraq!? Yes...I do and I respect them very much because their hearts are not filled with hatred like so many Muslims who feed on the Islamic BS! They only want to get along with every one and be left alone to live their lives. The problem is the Islamic terrorists can't have that or stand that!! Another problem with those Muslims that you claim are good..when they do not revolt against these insane murderers and stand up to them for whatever reason..........it means they (you) are complacent with what is going on! In other words they are agreeing to it BY their SILENCE!!
 

Abu Ali (0)
Saturday February 16, 2013, 9:56 pm
1. I'm quite sure. Doing either is going to get you a death sentence.

2.Neither of them were poor, but they rose to power because they were able to recruit people that were in poverty by giving them a way to make money. Terrorism. When people run into hard times they're easy to take.

3. Well of course there are exceptions, but you don't hear about Saudi terrorists as much as Afgan terrorists. I mean you don't hear about it as often because it doesn't happen as often because Saudi Arabia actually is rich as shit.

4. Islam isn't a government type, it isn't fascist at all, it isn't anti-democracy as a lot of Arabic countries are republics now (Arab Spring). I can give you anti-freedom however that is improving.

Have you ever thought about the Islamics living in the towns and such, constantly becoming refugees due to terrorists. Have you ever thought about the ones who rise against the Terrorists in the name of freedom? Infact there was an article I just posted today about this village in Afghanistan that had an armed uprising against the Taliban, because guess what? We all hate them too.

What you're doing is pretty much like saying all Americans are fat because a few are obese. Or all blacks steal shit because a few stole shit.

I mean I WAS Islamic even in a strict Islamic family, yet you didn't see me go out and kill those infidels or skin cats alive or go rape women.

What is your problem?
 

Carol Dreeszen (364)
Saturday February 16, 2013, 9:59 pm
Abu..Check this out!!

Here’s an indicator of how the U.S. military considers northern and eastern Africa the next major battlefield of the ongoing war on terrorism. “Countering violent extremist groups” will be the “first priority” of the U.S. Africa Command, according to its next leader.

U.S. Army Gen. David Rodriguez, most recently the day-to-day commander in Afghanistan, all but laid out a hit list to a Senate panel during his confirmation hearing to run the military’s newest regional command organization. “A major challenge is effectively countering violent extremist organizations, especially the growth of Mali as an al-Qaida in the Islamic Maghreb safe haven, Boko Haram in Nigeria, and al-Shabaab in Somalia,” Rodriguez told the Senate Armed Services Committee in advanced questions on Thursday morning, as “each present a threat to western interests in Africa.”

The Senate panel opted not to ask questions about al-Qaida at all — a surprising move, given that Rodriguez testified alongside Army Gen. Lloyd Austin, nominated to command all U.S. military forces in the Middle East and South Asia. Sen. Carl Levin, the chairman of the committee, called the swaths of territory they will oversee “the centers of gravity for our military’s operations to counter the threat of terrorism.” Yet senators preferred to grill Austin over his recommendations for a residual force in Iraq that never came to pass.

Still, Rodriguez said that the Boko Haram, al-Qaida in the Islamic Maghreb and al-Shabab are “the major threats to stability, militarily.” He also included Joseph Kony’s Lord’s Resistance Army — which the U.S. is helping confront — in his list of threats, but as a subordinate issue.


As befitting a new U.S. and western approach of confronting terrorist groups without major land incursions, Rodriguez indicated that “training” foreign militaries would be the primary tool by which Africa Command operates directly. He regretted that previous training for partner armies in Africa, “we did not emphasize the value of the army and the role of the military in democracy” — an issue on display in the recent Mali conflict, when the U.S.-trained military launched a coup last year — and pledged to reverse that course.

Rodriguez did not elaborate at the hearing about additional steps to confront the terrorist threats he outlined. But in his advance statement to the committee, he said that he saw “a greater risk of regional instability if we do not engage aggressively” against al-Qaida in the Islamic Maghreb, the terrorist group’s regional affiliate. The Special Operations Command’s Africa component is currently focused on “neutraliz[ing]” the group, including ‘a counter-ideology component to deny al-Qaida in the Islamic Maghreb recruitment and retention efforts and interfere with their fundraising.” There is a robust and seemingly long-term U.S. military presence in Djibouti that helps provide resource for the ongoing counterterrorism fight. Drone strikes were not discussed at the hearing.

There are questions about the extent of the threat that al-Qaida in the Islamic Maghreb, al-Shabab and Boko Haram actually pose to the United States. Rodriguez conceded in his advance questions that the three groups “have not specifically targeted the United States.” Instead, they’ve “carried out attacks on western interests and engaged in kidnapping,” he said, warning that they’d be an “even larger threat” if they “deepen their collaboration.” Asked by Sen. Kelly Ayotte (R-N.H.), Rodriguez said Boko Haram in Nigeria “has committed some acts that can be associated with terrorism.” Rudy Atallah, the Pentagon’s former top Africa counterterrorism officer, told Danger Room last month that “The short answer is they are regionally focused for now,” rather than threatening the United States at home.

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2013/02/africa-rodriguez/
 

Carol Dreeszen (364)
Saturday February 16, 2013, 10:01 pm
And you say there are no Islamic terrorists in Africa!?!?
 

Carol Dreeszen (364)
Saturday February 16, 2013, 10:04 pm
3. Well of course there are exceptions, but you don't hear about Saudi terrorists as much as Afgan terrorists. I mean you don't hear about it as often because it doesn't happen as often because Saudi Arabia actually is rich as shit.

I would have to differ with you on that!! Do you have any kind of factual claims with links to support your claim!?
 

Abu Ali (0)
Saturday February 16, 2013, 10:04 pm
“Countering violent extremist groups”

“extremist groups”

Yeah they're extremist groups, not all Islamics kill people okay. Plus you're talking about one terrorist group that happens to work in Africa, and there are lots of Islamics in Africa. However there are un-islamic terrorists in Africa too.

A funny thing is one of the most "popular" terrorist groups in Africa is actually a CHRISTIAN group called the Lord's Resistance Army. You know that Kony 2012 thing?
 

Abu Ali (0)
Saturday February 16, 2013, 10:08 pm
Oh wait, I actually have a better example then Saudi Arabia. Azerbaijan has one of the lowest crime rates in the world, and it has Shia Islam, and it has reached huge peaks in human development, economic development, and literacy. Guess what? It has a low rate of unemployment and homicide.
 

Carol Dreeszen (364)
Saturday February 16, 2013, 10:14 pm
No I don't know that Kony thing but I will say when it says Islamic..it starts with Islam..I am smart enough to know that! No matter where it comes from or where it is started it is a result of SOMEPLACE with Islam which you said it was not. And yes I realize not all Islamic's kill people and I also realize there can be unIslamic terrorists in Africa too..just like the ones in America who had a beef with the government...their actions made them terrorists! Do you have any information on this Christian terrorist group!? I might add to that how many Christian terrorist groups have you heard of world wide!? Compared to Islamic I can guarantee you it's like 1,000 to 1!!
 

Abu Ali (0)
Saturday February 16, 2013, 10:16 pm
Another thing is that I briefly mentioned, Azerbaijan has SHIA Islam which is the main minority Islamic ideology. That often leads to the bigger group (The Sunnis) picking on them. By picking I mean terrorist attacks like bombing churches and all that good stuff. That doesn't happen in Azerbaijan. Maybe because of it's high literacy rate and economic development wouldn't you think. Nah obviously Islam is just bad and makes people die :'(
 

Abu Ali (0)
Saturday February 16, 2013, 10:19 pm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lords_Resistance_Army

Some other un-islamic terrorist organizations:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_India_(Maoist)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_the_Philippines

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_People%27s_Army

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ETA

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_National_Liberation_Front
 

Abu Ali (0)
Saturday February 16, 2013, 10:22 pm
Damn, looking through this list there are a LOT of communist terrorist groups. Maybe we should hate on them
 

Abu Ali (0)
Saturday February 16, 2013, 10:23 pm
Bah I meant to put "instead" at the end of the sentence why doesn't this have an edit feature
 

Carol Dreeszen (364)
Saturday February 16, 2013, 10:25 pm
Abu...What is stated in the Koran which is Islam there is not anything really good about it in there! It's mostly about killing the infidel..me and I guess you also if in fact you have left Islam. And yes I know there are areas in those countries that people do live semi in peace. My one friend in Iraq lives in an area where there is not much terrorist activities but he has said that he has seen them. The beef with Islam is what is in the Koran is not the religion of peace! Period! No not all Muslims are bad..just like anyone else...how do you think our country came about having freedom!? Do you think everyone shyed away and let someone else do the dirty work!? No..that's not how it's done and yes I have an idea of how many Muslims are threatened with their life when they try and go against the terrorists...what do you all expect!? America to come in and save everyone and kill off the terrorists!? It's not gonna happen! Somebody over there has got to come up with the guts and determination to wipe those bastards out that are making everyone's life miserable or cut short! THAT is how you gain freedom...anyplace!! Until that happens they will continue to try and take over the world and there will be a LOT of deaths from it!
 

Abu Ali (0)
Saturday February 16, 2013, 10:27 pm
The Koran says nothing about killing people that don't believe in the religion, why does no one get this. It says: "He does not forbid you to deal kindly and justly with anyone who has not fought you for your faith or driven you out of your homes: God loves the just.” 60:8
 

Abu Ali (0)
Saturday February 16, 2013, 10:32 pm
Let me paste a big piece of text that explains this:

Many people critique Islam by saying that it does not tolerate other religions when it clearly states in the Qur’an: “[…] and He does not forbid you to deal kindly and justly with anyone who has not fought you for your faith or driven you out of your homes: God loves the just.” 60:8 Perhaps the qur’anic verse they rely on the most is verse 5:51 which says: “You who believe, do not take the Jews and Christians as allies: they are allies only to each other. Anyone who takes them as an ally becomes one of them – God does not guide such wrongdoers.” However, the Jews and Christians talked about here are clearly just the ones who are against the Muslim camp, as is clear from the following verses up to 5:59 : “You who believe, do not take as allies those who ridicule your religion and make fun of it – whether people who were given the Scripture before you, or disbelievers – and be mindful of God if you are true believers. When you make the call to prayer, they ridicule it and make fun of it: this is because they are people who do not reason. Say [Prophet], ‘People of the Book, do you resent us for any reason other than the fact that we believe in God, in what was sent down to us, and in what was sent before us, while most of you are disobedient?’ ”

Non-Muslims who want to show how Islam is intolerant of others also use the following qur’anic verse: “He that chooses a religion other than Islam, it will not be accepted of him and in the world to come, he will be one of the lost.” 3:85 However, “the word ‘Islam’ in the Arabic of the Qur’an means complete devotion/submission to God, unmixed with worship of any other. All earlier prophets are thus described by the Qur’an as Muslims. Those who read this word ‘Islam’ in the sense of the religion of prophet Muhammad PBUH will illegitimately set up a barrier between Islam and other monotheistic religions.” (Haleem, 2004). Logically, for Islam to be the true religion of God, it has to be attainable by any person, at any time, anywhere. It is this fundamental principle of one surrendering his will to God which makes Islam universal and not constrained to a certain type of people.

Further proof that Islam does not oppose peoples’ different beliefs can be seen in the following qur’anic verses: “The [Muslim] believers, the Jews, the Christians, and the Sabians – all those who believe in God and the Last Day and do good – will have their rewards with their Lord. No fear for them, nor will they grieve”; 2:62 “Some of the People of the Book believe in God, in what has been sent down to you and in what was sent down to them: humbling themselves before God, they would never sell God’s revelation for a small price. These people will have their rewards with their Lord: God is swift in reckoning”; 3:199 “You [Prophet] are sure to find that the most hostile to the believers are the Jews and those who associate other deities with God*; you are sure to find that the closest in affection towards the believers are those who say, ‘We are Christians,’ for there are among them people devoted to learning and ascetics. These people are not given to arrogance, and when they listen to what has been sent down to the Messenger, you will see their eyes overflowing with tears because they recognize the truth [in it]. They say, ‘Our Lord, we believe, so count us amongst the witnesses. Why should we not believe in God and in the truth that has come down to us when we long for our Lord to include us in the company of the righteous?’ For saying this, God has rewarded them with Gardens graced with flowing streams, and there they will stay: that is the reward of those who do good.” 5:82-85

Hence, the verse “He that chooses a religion other than Islam, it will not be accepted of him and in the world to come, he will be one of the lost” cannot be interpreted as shunning off any person who is not a Muslim. The Qur’an simply underlines the fact that there are differences between Islam, Judaism, and Christianity which sets them apart – depending on what the followers of each religion believe. “We have assigned a law and a path to each of you. If God had so willed, He would have made you one community, but He wanted to test you through that which He has given you, so race to do good: you will all return to God and He will make clear to you the matters you differed about.” 5:48

“The Qur’an clearly defines its relationship with earlier scriptures by saying: ‘He has sent the Scripture down to you [Prophet] with the Truth, confirming what went before: He sent down the Torah and the Gospel earlier as a guide for people.’ 3:3-4 ” In ‘Consultation’, it says, “In matters of faith, He has laid down for you [people] the same commandment that He gave Noah, which We have revealed to you [Muhammad] and which We enjoined on Abraham and Moses and Jesus: ‘Uphold the faith and do not divide into factions within it’ – what you [Prophet] call upon the idolaters to do is hard for them; God chooses whoever He pleases for Himself and guides towards Himself those who turn to Him. They divided, out of rivalry, only after knowledge had come to them […]. Those after them, who inherited the Scripture, are in disquieting doubt about it. So [Prophet] call people to that faith and follow the straight path as you have been commanded. Do not go by what they desire, but say, ‘I believe in whatever Scripture God has sent down. I am commanded to bring justice between you. God is our Lord and your Lord – to us our deeds and to you yours, so let there be no argument between us and you – God will gather us together, and to Him we shall return.’ 42:13-14/15 ” “The Qur’an forbids arguing with the People of the Book except in the best way and urges the Muslims to say, ‘We believe in what was revealed to us and in what was revealed to you; our God and your God are one [and the same].’ 29:46 And in another verse, it says, ‘Say, “People of the Book, let us arrive at a statement that is common to us all: we worship God alone, we ascribe no partner to Him, and none of us takes others beside God as Lords.” 3:64’ ” (Haleem, 2004).

*Although this my sound as a generalization, it has unfortunetely proven to be true - just read the life of the prophet. The pagans and Jews continously conspired, betrayed, and harmed the Muslims while the Christians didnt.
 

Abu Ali (0)
Saturday February 16, 2013, 10:32 pm
Wait, I found a good article that explains this.

Many people critique Islam by saying that it does not tolerate other religions when it clearly states in the Qur’an: “[…] and He does not forbid you to deal kindly and justly with anyone who has not fought you for your faith or driven you out of your homes: God loves the just.” 60:8 Perhaps the qur’anic verse they rely on the most is verse 5:51 which says: “You who believe, do not take the Jews and Christians as allies: they are allies only to each other. Anyone who takes them as an ally becomes one of them – God does not guide such wrongdoers.” However, the Jews and Christians talked about here are clearly just the ones who are against the Muslim camp, as is clear from the following verses up to 5:59 : “You who believe, do not take as allies those who ridicule your religion and make fun of it – whether people who were given the Scripture before you, or disbelievers – and be mindful of God if you are true believers. When you make the call to prayer, they ridicule it and make fun of it: this is because they are people who do not reason. Say [Prophet], ‘People of the Book, do you resent us for any reason other than the fact that we believe in God, in what was sent down to us, and in what was sent before us, while most of you are disobedient?’ ”

Non-Muslims who want to show how Islam is intolerant of others also use the following qur’anic verse: “He that chooses a religion other than Islam, it will not be accepted of him and in the world to come, he will be one of the lost.” 3:85 However, “the word ‘Islam’ in the Arabic of the Qur’an means complete devotion/submission to God, unmixed with worship of any other. All earlier prophets are thus described by the Qur’an as Muslims. Those who read this word ‘Islam’ in the sense of the religion of prophet Muhammad PBUH will illegitimately set up a barrier between Islam and other monotheistic religions.” (Haleem, 2004). Logically, for Islam to be the true religion of God, it has to be attainable by any person, at any time, anywhere. It is this fundamental principle of one surrendering his will to God which makes Islam universal and not constrained to a certain type of people.

Further proof that Islam does not oppose peoples’ different beliefs can be seen in the following qur’anic verses: “The [Muslim] believers, the Jews, the Christians, and the Sabians – all those who believe in God and the Last Day and do good – will have their rewards with their Lord. No fear for them, nor will they grieve”; 2:62 “Some of the People of the Book believe in God, in what has been sent down to you and in what was sent down to them: humbling themselves before God, they would never sell God’s revelation for a small price. These people will have their rewards with their Lord: God is swift in reckoning”; 3:199 “You [Prophet] are sure to find that the most hostile to the believers are the Jews and those who associate other deities with God*; you are sure to find that the closest in affection towards the believers are those who say, ‘We are Christians,’ for there are among them people devoted to learning and ascetics. These people are not given to arrogance, and when they listen to what has been sent down to the Messenger, you will see their eyes overflowing with tears because they recognize the truth [in it]. They say, ‘Our Lord, we believe, so count us amongst the witnesses. Why should we not believe in God and in the truth that has come down to us when we long for our Lord to include us in the company of the righteous?’ For saying this, God has rewarded them with Gardens graced with flowing streams, and there they will stay: that is the reward of those who do good.” 5:82-85

Hence, the verse “He that chooses a religion other than Islam, it will not be accepted of him and in the world to come, he will be one of the lost” cannot be interpreted as shunning off any person who is not a Muslim. The Qur’an simply underlines the fact that there are differences between Islam, Judaism, and Christianity which sets them apart – depending on what the followers of each religion believe. “We have assigned a law and a path to each of you. If God had so willed, He would have made you one community, but He wanted to test you through that which He has given you, so race to do good: you will all return to God and He will make clear to you the matters you differed about.” 5:48

“The Qur’an clearly defines its relationship with earlier scriptures by saying: ‘He has sent the Scripture down to you [Prophet] with the Truth, confirming what went before: He sent down the Torah and the Gospel earlier as a guide for people.’ 3:3-4 ” In ‘Consultation’, it says, “In matters of faith, He has laid down for you [people] the same commandment that He gave Noah, which We have revealed to you [Muhammad] and which We enjoined on Abraham and Moses and Jesus: ‘Uphold the faith and do not divide into factions within it’ – what you [Prophet] call upon the idolaters to do is hard for them; God chooses whoever He pleases for Himself and guides towards Himself those who turn to Him. They divided, out of rivalry, only after knowledge had come to them […]. Those after them, who inherited the Scripture, are in disquieting doubt about it. So [Prophet] call people to that faith and follow the straight path as you have been commanded. Do not go by what they desire, but say, ‘I believe in whatever Scripture God has sent down. I am commanded to bring justice between you. God is our Lord and your Lord – to us our deeds and to you yours, so let there be no argument between us and you – God will gather us together, and to Him we shall return.’ 42:13-14/15 ” “The Qur’an forbids arguing with the People of the Book except in the best way and urges the Muslims to say, ‘We believe in what was revealed to us and in what was revealed to you; our God and your God are one [and the same].’ 29:46 And in another verse, it says, ‘Say, “People of the Book, let us arrive at a statement that is common to us all: we worship God alone, we ascribe no partner to Him, and none of us takes others beside God as Lords.” 3:64’ ” (Haleem, 2004).
 

Patricia Martin (19)
Saturday February 16, 2013, 10:42 pm
No, Abu, if a Muslim kills a Christian in an Islamic country, as Coptic Christians have been killed in Egypt, they don't get the death penalty, but a Christian killing a Muslim in an Islamic country DOES get the death penalty.

There are many other double standards, like a non-Muslim in an Islamic country must pay Jizya, a humiliating tax, to Muslims. ISLAM DOES NOT ALLOW NON-MUSLIMS TO LIVE BY THE SAME LAWS AS DO MUSLIMS. The non-Muslims are called "Dhimmis". The are treated as inferiors. Would you like to know about other humiliating things that are done to Dhimmis in Islamic countries?

"2.Neither of them were poor, but they rose to power because they were able to recruit people that were in poverty by giving them a way to make money. Terrorism. When people run into hard times they're easy to take"

Abu, there are billions of poor people in the world, but you know what? Most poor people don't resort to terrorism. They are able to be "turned" to terrorism, because they are fed a racist, supremacist, and sicko religious-political ideologies. Both Islam and true Nazis hated Christians and Jews. Money is an excuse. Muslims are excellent pretending they're victims. Islam has raised victimology to and art and science.

"3. Well of course there are exceptions, but you don't hear about Saudi terrorists as much as Afgan terrorists. I mean you don't hear about it as often because it doesn't happen as often because Saudi Arabia actually is rich as shit. "

The SAUDIS are the biggest funders of terrorism in the world. If they don't engage in it themselves, they've been able to buy terrorists and their families to do the dirty work Saudis don't want their white robes to get messy with.

"4. Islam isn't a government type, it isn't fascist at all, it isn't anti-democracy as a lot of Arabic countries are republics now (Arab Spring). I can give you anti-freedom however that is improving."

Islam encompasses EVERYTHING, politics, food, dress, prayer, sex, punishment, every thing in every sphere of life, including how Muslim women should use their fingers to make sure no more urine comes out. There is no such thing as the separation of Church and State. Saying Islam isn't fascist doesn't make it not fascist.

The true freedom-lovers in the islamic Spring are being displaced by Islamists who lied to them about giving them freedom and recognizing their human rights. That's why there has been non-stop violence in Egypt, because Islamists screwed everybody except other Islamists.

"Have you ever thought about the Islamics living in the towns and such, constantly becoming refugees due to terrorists. Have you ever thought about the ones who rise against the Terrorists in the name of freedom? Infact there was an article I just posted today about this village in Afghanistan that had an armed uprising against the Taliban, because guess what? We all hate them too. "

Yes, I have thought of them. I feel sorry for them. But there are a huge stream of people that are not true refugees flooding into European countries and deliberately sent to places like Australia to Islamicize Western countries.

You don't see non-Muslim refugees going to Islamic countries for refuge. All the traffic goes the other way. European countries are drowning in Muslim refugees, many of whom bring their cultural garbage -- multiple wives, wife and child-beating, acid throwing, female genital mutilation, "honor killing", crime, fraud, Sharia zones. Perhaps they should only let in the women.

Glad to hear there was a rebellion against the Taliban. They certainly deserve it.

"What you're doing is pretty much like saying all Americans are fat because a few are obese. Or all blacks steal shit because a few stole shit. I mean I WAS Islamic even in a strict Islamic family, yet you didn't see me go out and kill those infidels or skin cats alive or go rape women. "

I am saying that huge numbers of Muslims are flooding into Western countries. They are getting welfare, health care, housing, halal food, demanding that everyone not "offend" them. They are draining systems, clogging courts, driving up crime, raping, turning Western countries into the hellholes they came from.

No, they're not all like that, but immigration needs to be severely limited. It's killing the host countries. Any Muslim convicted of a crime needs to be sent back to country of ancestors along with the family.

Most blacks in this country descended from slavery. We at least owe them something to some degree, certainly to give them a home. I don't think we have the same obligation to the world of Islam.

Right from the beginning of American history, Islam has been making Americans miserable. The Ottoman Empire and Barbary Pirates hijacked American Merchant Marine Ships, enslaved white American sailors, stole their goods they came to trade, forced them to convert to Islam, starved them, whipped them, made the American government pay ransom and protection money.

The United States Navy came into being because of the abuses of Islam.

My problem is that you only want sympathy and you're not willing to own up to the problems Islam causes. Recognizing and admitting to them is a good start. Islam is in a severe state of denial.
 

Abu Ali (0)
Saturday February 16, 2013, 10:44 pm
Wow you have some problems mate.
 

Abu Ali (0)
Saturday February 16, 2013, 10:45 pm
You're seriously tiring me because how can you argue with such an ignorant person such as yourself?
 

Abu Ali (0)
Saturday February 16, 2013, 10:47 pm
This is one misunderstanding that keeps rising up against Islam. Islam does not in anyway allow for the killing of any innocent soul. I have gathered some of the Noble Verses that I am aware of that deal directly with war and peace to shed some light upon my readers.

Noble Verses that order the killing of the enemies:

Let us look at Noble Verses 9:28-29 "O ye believe! Truly the pagans are unclear; so let them not, after this year of theirs, approach the Sacred Mosque. And if ye fear povery, soon will Allah enrich you, if He wills, out of His bounty, For Allah is All-Knowing, All-Wise.

Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the last day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of truth, from among the people of the book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."

Let us look at Noble Verse 9:5 "Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful."

As we clearly see in the above Noble Verses, the laws of killing the unbelievers or the pagans were for particular and specific times, and not for all times and all places. Notice the quotes "...after this year..." and "...when the sacred months have passed...".

It is important to know that when Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him started preaching Islam, he had to deal with 360 Arab pagan tribes at first, and he and his followers had to go through a lot of battles that were imposed upon them by the pagans who were threatened by the new System and Wonderful Religion of Islam.
 

Abu Ali (0)
Saturday February 16, 2013, 10:50 pm
Also a rebuttal to your there are poor people who aren't terrorists. Yes that's true but that takes up all of the Islamics that aren't terrorists. Look at the US, crime rates directly follow with poverty rates. Like Ghettos and such, there's a lot of crime there because people can't afford anything so they are forced to steal from others.
 

Carol Dreeszen (364)
Saturday February 16, 2013, 10:52 pm
This is one misunderstanding that keeps rising up against Islam. Islam does not in anyway allow for the killing of any innocent soul.

Then you better damn well get a hold of whoever it is making the Korans and set them straight!!!! You are in COMPLETE denial as to what Islam is all about Abu..and if you think by adding 55 messages in a row here that ANYONE is going to take you seriously...guess again! You only make yourself look DESPERATE!!
 

Carol Dreeszen (364)
Saturday February 16, 2013, 10:52 pm
Thanks for the great info Patricia!!
 

Carol Dreeszen (364)
Saturday February 16, 2013, 10:54 pm
The Koran says nothing about killing people that don't believe in the religion, why does no one get this. It says: "He does not forbid you to deal kindly and justly with anyone who has not fought you for your faith or driven you out of your homes: God loves the just.” 60:8

LIES...LIES....LIES.........................
 

Abu Ali (0)
Saturday February 16, 2013, 10:56 pm
You think you know more about Islam then someone who lived as an Islamic citizen in Iraq? You're just trying to play me off as like I know nothing so you can keep up thinking that you're the god of intelligence here. You're not. You're trying to give off baseless claims directly insulting innocent people who believe in a non-violent religion.

I really like how you're thanking Patricia for info while I am giving you text evidence from the Quran and I don't get any reward.

The reason why I'm chatting 55 messages in a row isn't trying to get people to believe me, I just think too fast then I can type sometimes.
 

Patricia Martin (19)
Saturday February 16, 2013, 10:57 pm
I responded to your points, and you ignored mine.

You're changing the subject to terrorists, when I didn't bring them up.

We are not so infantile as to think all Muslims are terrorists or rapists, etc.

You know what they say, Abu:

Not all Muslims are terrorists, but the vast majority of terrorists ARE MUSLIM.
 

Carol Dreeszen (364)
Saturday February 16, 2013, 10:58 pm
AMEN to that Patricia!!
 

Abu Ali (0)
Saturday February 16, 2013, 10:59 pm
You stated multiple times that Islam only leads to violence, and you've mentioned terrorism multiple times in this argument.
 

Carol Dreeszen (364)
Saturday February 16, 2013, 11:00 pm
And really...this article is about Brennan and Obama and how they are both Muslims..one converted the other always was and how they are working to destroy this country...they have a plan and an agenda to rid the US of everything good!
 

Carol Dreeszen (364)
Saturday February 16, 2013, 11:01 pm
That is what Islam is about! They are both fighting for it!
 

Abu Ali (0)
Saturday February 16, 2013, 11:01 pm
They aren't working to destroy the country, Muslims aren't working to destroy the country mate and important people in American government that are muslims are just fine.
 

Abu Ali (0)
Saturday February 16, 2013, 11:03 pm
A good website that you all should go to is

http://www.answering-christianity.com/islam_terrorism.htm

Clears up those rumors about Islam by offering actual evidence.
 

Patricia Martin (19)
Saturday February 16, 2013, 11:04 pm
First of all, Abu, WHO ARE YOU TALKING TO?

If you're answering a question or directing comments to one of us, let us know who it is.

Another thing: do not give long strands of uninterrupted text, if you want us to read it. Break it up. Make it readable. I'm not reading that crap you gave me, and you wouldn't either if somebody did that to you.

I doubt if you're a rapist or a cat killer. but you've already lied to us, and I don't know which of your statements to believe.

 

Abu Ali (0)
Saturday February 16, 2013, 11:05 pm
Believe in all of them since they're all fact.
 

Abu Ali (0)
Saturday February 16, 2013, 11:08 pm
Also read all that text, it will help you understand why Islam is misinterpreted as a hateful religion while it's not.
 

Patricia Martin (19)
Saturday February 16, 2013, 11:08 pm
WHO ARE YOU ADDRESSING, ABU?
 

Abu Ali (0)
Saturday February 16, 2013, 11:09 pm
YOU WHEN WE HAVE A MESSAGE SYSTEM LIKE THIS, UNLESS I CALL OUT THE PERSON DIRECTLY IT IS IMPLIED THAT I AM TALKING TO THE PERSON THAT POSTED ABOVE ME.

Also all my statements can pretty much go to both of you since you're both arguing for the same thing.
 

Patricia Martin (19)
Saturday February 16, 2013, 11:11 pm
When you are responding to my points, start with "Pat" or Patricia

When you are responding to Carol's points, respond with her name.

I don't know who the heck you're talking to.
 

Abu Ali (0)
Saturday February 16, 2013, 11:12 pm
Well Pat, anymore questions on Islam?
 

Patricia Martin (19)
Saturday February 16, 2013, 11:14 pm
Thank you, Abu, for using my name.

How about let's look at the Religion of Peace in the last 30 days.

What people do, says a lot about what they believe. Would you agree?
 

Abu Ali (0)
Saturday February 16, 2013, 11:17 pm
No, often not. A lot of people in a religion don't even both to truly read or understand their holy book which often leads to misunderstandings of what it says. Like how it says not to kill people who don't believe in the religion or anyone else for that matter. Now if the middle east had improved literacy terrorism wouldn't be a problem.
 

Patricia Martin (19)
Saturday February 16, 2013, 11:21 pm
Well there seems to be A LOT of misunderstanderers of Islam. I mean virtually every country has a tremendous number of misunderstanderers and lots of backers.

Date Country City Killed Injured Description
2013.02.12 Pakistan Gulbahar 2 3 Sectarian Jihadis gun down two people at a hardware store.
2013.02.11 Iraq Mosul 8 8 A Shahid suicide bomber takes out eight Iraqis, including a 7-year-old boy.
2013.02.11 Syria al-Shadada 14 12 Two al-Nusra suicide bombings leave fourteen people dead.
2013.02.10 Thailand Yala 5 1 Islamic militants overturn a truck with a bomb, then shoot five survivors to death.
2013.02.10 Pakistan Orangi 2 0 A Shia father and son are murdered by Sipah-e-Sahaba gunmen.
2013.02.08 Pakistan Kalaya 16 27 Muslim fundamentalists bomb marketplace selling videos and CD's, killing at least sixteen.
2013.02.08 Iraq Baghdad 17 44 Holy Warriors detonate two car bombs at an animal market popular with Shias, slaughtering at least seventeen.
2013.02.08 Iraq Karbala 5 16 At least five Shiites are taken out by Sunni bombers.
2013.02.08 Pakistan Peshawar 1 0 A Shiite professional is picked off by Sunni gunmen shortly after dropping his kids off at school.
2013.02.08 Iraq Shomali 14 26 Fourteen Iraqis at a bus stop are dismantled by Islamic State of Iraq bombers.
2013.02.08 Afghanistan Nad Ali 6 0 Two women are among six member of a family torn to shreds by an Islamic bomb.
2013.02.08 Nigeria Kano 10 5 Islamists gun down one male and nine female polio vaccination workers in two attacks after clerics accuse the program of being a conspiracy against Muslim children.
2013.02.08 Syria Aleppo 9 0 Nine people, including women, children and a cleric are reportedly killed by a Sunni rocket attack on a Shiite mosque.
2013.02.07 Iraq Mahmoudiya 3 0 Three Iraqis are machine-gunned by al-Qaeda while sitting in their car.
2013.02.07 Afghanistan Kishindih 4 3 The Taliban take out four locals with a roadside bomb.
2013.02.07 Pakistan Orangi 1 5 A Taliban bombing leaves one dead.
2013.02.07 Iraq Abu Ghraib 6 9 al-Qaeda bombers murder six Iraqis.
2013.02.07 Dagestan Kahdzhalmakhi 1 0 Islamic militants shoot a local cop to death.
2013.02.07 Pakistan Karachi 1 0 A Shiite dies in the hospital from injuries suffered during a Sipah-e- Sahaba shooting attack.
2013.02.07 Kenya Garissa 1 1 Islamists shoot two Christian pastors, killing one.
2013.02.06 Pakistan Karachi 1 0 Religious rivals murder a Sunni.
2013.02.06 Tunisia Tunis 1 0 A leading critic of Islamism is shot in the head by several assassins at his home.
2013.02.06 Syria Palmyra 35 30 An al-Nusra suicide bomber and a separate car bombing send over thirty souls to Allah.
2013.02.06 Iraq Mussayib 4 4 Four Iraqis die after being sprayed with al-Qaeda gunfire.
2013.02.06 Syria Hama 54 2 A brutal bombing of a bus by an Islamist faction leaves over fifty dead, including women.
2013.02.06 Russia Nalchik 1 1 A local cop is gunned down by Islamic militants.
2013.02.05 Thailand Yala 4 0 Four Buddhist fruit traders, including a 17-year-old, are tied up and slaughtered by Islamic 'insurgents'.
2013.02.05 Iraq Taji 6 12 A suicide car bomber murder six Iraqis.
2013.02.05 Afghanistan Faryab 5 7 Mujahideen set off a bomb at a restaurant that leaves five dead.
2013.02.05 Nigeria Sambisa Reserve 6 0 At least six park rangers are brutally murdered by Sharia advocates.
2013.02.05 Denmark Copenhagen 0 0 A Danish cartoonist narrowly escapes an assassination attempt on his front stoop from a man who fires from a yard away.
2013.02.05 Bangladesh Dhaka 3 43 At least three people are killed during a rampage by Jamaat-e-Islam
2013.02.04 Somalia Mogadishu 1 0 Islamic extremists kill an African Union soldier.
2013.02.04 Pakistan Karachi 1 0 Sectarian Jihadis pick off a 35-year-old Sunni at a market.
2013.02.04 Pakistan Chaman 1 0 A Christian dies after being shot five times by Muslims angry that he would not embrace Islam.
2013.02.04 Yemen Kutaf 6 7 Six people are killed during an armed clash between Sunnis and Shias.
2013.02.04 Iraq Taji 23 44 A Holy Warrior self-detonates in a thick crowd of Iraqis, leaving about two dozen dead.
2013.02.04 Kenya Garissa 1 0 Islamists shoot a local cop to death.
2013.02.03 Afghanistan Khakriz 1 6 Women are among the casualties of a Taliban roadside attack.
2013.02.03 Iraq Kirkuk 33 90 Three dozen innocents are slaughtered by a suicide bombing followed by a grenade and shooting assault along a city street.
2013.02.02 Pakistan Ghunda Mela 2 3 Taliban militants murder two local soldiers.
2013.02.02 Pakistan Karachi 2 Two human rights activists are shot to death by sectarian Jihadis.
2013.02.02 Afghanistan Musa Qala 2 0 Two local cops are incinerated by a Taliban bomb.
2013.02.02 Afghanistan Miyanishin 5 0 Two young children are among a family of five exterminated by a roadside bomb.
2013.02.02 Pakistan Agra Taj 1 0 Lashkar-e-Jhagvi brutally murder a Shiite.
2013.02.02 Pakistan Sarai Nawrang 26 15 Women and children are among the casualties of a brutal Fedayeen attack that included a suicide bombing in a family home.
2013.02.01 Syria Damascus 53 90 al-Nusra suicide bombers massacre over fifty people in a single attack.
2013.02.01 Egypt Alexandria 0 1 A Christian woman is stabbed on the street by Muslim hardliners.
2013.02.01 Lebanon Beqaa 2 0 Islamists shoot two Lebanese policemen to death.
2013.02.01 Pakistan Hangu 30 56 A Fedayeen suicide bomber slaughters over two dozen worshippers outside a Shia mosque.
2013.02.01 Afghanistan Takhar 2 0 A Sunni hardliner suddenly shoots two police officers to death.
2013.02.01 Pakistan Lakai Sar 11 6 Lashkar-e-Islam terrorists assault a village and kill eleven defenders.
2013.02.01 Thailand Pattani 3 10 Three are killed when Islamic 'separatists' spray a group of farmers with machine-gun fire.
2013.01.31 Afghanistan Greshk 1 8 A 13-year-old boy is killed when fundamentalists bomb a gambling event.
2013.01.31 Mali Douentza 2 0 Islamists murder two local soldiers.
2013.01.31 Nigeria Gombe 2 0 Two local cops are gunned down by Boko Haram.
2013.01.31 Thailand Yala 1 0 A 62-year-old villager is cut down by Muslim gunmen.
2013.01.31 Pakistan Karachi 3 0 Two Sunni clerics are among three killed in a Shia drive-by.
2013.01.31 Pakistan Tirah 2 6 At least two bystanders are killed when Islamist groups clash.
2013.01.31 Pakistan Malikhel 2 0 Religion of Peace bombers murder two polio workers who were on their way to vaccinate children.
2013.01.31 Pakistan Quetta 1 1 A Shia barber is cut down by Sunnis firing into his shop.
2013.01.30 Afghanistan Sabari 2 4 Two small children are pulled into pieces by a Taliban bomb planted at a market.
2013.01.30 Thailand Narathiwat 1 2 Militant Muslims blow up a security guard for teachers.
2013.01.30 Pakistan Golimar 1 0 Sipah-e-Sahaba gunmen pick off a 32-year-old Shiite.
2013.01.30 Iraq Abu Ghraib 18 0 A mass grave containing eighteen al-Qaeda execution victims is discovered.
2013.01.30 Pakistan Ghani Gul 6 0 Six members of a family are killed when a mortar hits their home amidst fighting between two Islamist groups.
2013.01.30 Yemen Raida 0 1 A Jewish man is badly injured in an anti-Semitic Muslim attack.
2013.01.29 Somalia Mogadishu 6 12 A Shahid suicide bomber takes out six locals.
2013.01.29 Iraq Kirkuk 1 2 A cleric is taken out by sectarian rivals.
2013.01.29 Pakistan Kala 1 0 A guard for a polio vaccination team is gunned down by Islamists.
2013.01.29 Thailand Narathiwat 2 0 A Buddhist married couple, who worked as school janitors, are brutally shot to death by Islamic 'insurgents'.
2013.01.29 Pakistan Karachi 1 2 Terrorists from a religious outfit attack a police station and murder an officer.
2013.01.29 Pakistan Quetta 2 0 Two Shia are shot to death by Sunni radicals during 'Unity Week'.
2013.01.28 Yemen Rida 11 17 An al-Qaeda car bomb leaves eleven dead.
2013.01.28 Yemen al-Bayda 8 12 Eight locals are disassembled by a Fedayeen suicide bomber.
2013.01.28 Pakistan Karachi 5 1 Four Sunni activists are murdered by sectarian rivals. A 2-year-old later dies of injuries.
2013.01.28 Russia Kabardino-Balkaria 1 0 An off-duty police officer is assassinated by suspected Islamic 'separatists'.
2013.01.28 Iraq Mosul 2 0 A 4-year-old girl is among two civilians taken out by Mujahid gunmen.
2013.01.28 Bangladesh Motijheel 0 50 At least fifty people are injured in rioting by Islamic extremists standing up for war criminals.
2013.01.28 Turkey Istanbul 1 0 An 85-year-old Christian woman is stabbed to death by an attacker who then carves a cross on her body.
2013.01.28 Iraq Fallujah 2 3 An al-Qaeda rocket attack leaves two dead Iraqis.
2013.01.27 Nigeria Mangu 5 0 Five people are beheaded by Sharia advocates.
2013.01.27 Pakistan Tirah 61 40 Sixty-one people are killed in clashes between Tahrik-e-Taliban and Ansarul Islam.
2013.01.27 Afghanistan Kandahar 10 6 Islamic fundamentalists kill ten Afghans with a roadside bomb.
2013.01.27 Nigeria Borno 8 0 Eight people are abducted and murdered by Boko Haram.
2013.01.27 Algeria Djebahia 2 5 Two gas pipeline guards are shot to death by Muslim militants.
2013.01.26 Iraq Fallujah 2 3 Mujahideen shoot two local soldiers to death.
2013.01.26 Iraq Baqubah 1 0 A woman is murdered in her own home by the Islamic Army of Iraq.
2013.01.26 Afghanistan Qale Sabaz 2 13 A suicide bomber takes out two people.
2013.01.26 Afghanistan Kunduz 10 20 Ten Afghans are blown to bits by a Shahid suicide bomber at a busy market.
2013.01.25 Pakistan Parachinar 1 0 Wahhabi terrorists gun down a Shiite.
2013.01.25 Nigeria Ngwa 1 0 An ex-official is assassinated by Boko Haram.
2013.01.25 Afghanistan Kapisa 5 10 Five civilians are dismantled by a Fedayeen suicide bomber.
2013.01.24 Pakistan Gilgit 1 0 Sipah-e-Sahaba gunmen pick off a Shia water department employee.
2013.01.24 India Hyderabad 1 2 A passerby is killed when religious hardliners start shooting at each others.
2013.01.24 Syria Saasa 8 5 al-Nusra Islamists murder eight people with a car bomb.
2013.01.24 Pakistan Landhi 4 12 Terrorists murder four police officers with two bombs.
2013.01.24 Iraq Baghdad 3 0 Three Iraqis are brought down by al-Qaeda with silencers.
2013.01.24 Thailand Pattani 1 0 A man is murdered in his own bed by Muslim terrorists.
2013.01.23 Nigeria Beaver Ridge Canaan 4 0 Boko Haram Islamists burn down a school and shoot four people to death.
2013.01.23 Thailand Narathiwat 1 0 A teacher is shot to death by Muslim 'insurgents' in front of dozens of children.
2013.01.23 Yemen al-Bayda 1 3 One person is killed by al-Qaeda bombers.
2013.01.23 Pakistan Orakzai 5 3 A Sunni bomb blast rips five people apart.
2013.01.23 Iraq Tuz Khurmatu 42 75 A Shahid self-detonates inside a packed mosque, sending at least forty-two souls to Allah.
2013.01.23 Nigeria Maiduguri 5 0 Religion of Peace proponents behead five people in their homes.
2013.01.23 Iraq Mosul 3 0 A school principal is among three Iraqis gunned down by Mujahideen.
2013.01.23 Pakistan Gulbara 4 0 Four rival Islamists are murdered by Lashkar e-Islam.
2013.01.23 Pakistan Quetta 1 0 A prayer leader dies after being shot by Religion of Peace rivals.
2013.01.23 Pakistan Hangu 2 0 Two clerics are gunned down at their own mosque by Religion of Peace rivals.
2013.01.22 Pakistan Kari Haider Khel 2 0 Two tribesmen are taken out by a Tehreek-e-Taliban drive-by.
2013.01.22 Iraq Mahmoudiya 5 15 al-Qaeda set off a car bomb along a city street that leaves five dead.
2013.01.22 Iraq Taji 7 26 Seven people are torn to shreds by a Fedayeen suicide bomber.
2013.01.22 Iraq Shula 5 15 Sunni car bombers slaughter five Shiites in their own neighborhood.
2013.01.22 Nigeria Damboa 18 0 Fundamentalists massacre eighteen villagers at a market selling meat forbidden to Muslims.
2013.01.22 Pakistan Peshawar 1 0 A Shia eye specialist is cut down outside his clinic by Sunni gunmen.
2013.01.22 Nigeria Kano 5 2 Five people playing an outdoor board game are shot to death by Islamic fundamentalists.
2013.01.22 Pakistan Karachi 2 0 A prominent doctor is among two Shias gunned down by Sunni radicals.
2013.01.22 Iraq Mahmoudiyyah 4 0 Four young children ages 6 to 12 are disassembled by a Mujahideen bomb outside their home.
2013.01.21 Syria Salmiyeh 30 50 Shahid suicide car bombers destroy thirty lives in a commercial district.
2013.01.21 Afghanistan Kabul 3 0 At least three innocents are killed during a Fedayeen suicide assault on a traffic police headquarters.
2013.01.21 Thailand Pattani 1 1 A 12-year-old Buddhist boy is brought down by Runda Kumpulan Kecil Islamists.
2013.01.21 Pakistan Gakhar Mandi 1 0 The throat of a 45-year-old woman is cut by her conservative brother after she elopes by choice.
2013.01.21 Pakistan Dawizai 2 9 A Taliban bomb leaves two dead.
2013.01.20 Iraq Baqubah 1 1 Terrorists kill a civilian with a bomb near her home.
2013.01.20 Nigeria Kaduna 2 2 A 6-year-old girl is killed by suspected Boko Haram.
2013.01.19 Nigeria Okene 2 5 Islamists ambush a luxury bus and murder two riders.
2013.01.19 Somalia Afmadow 7 0 At least seven civilians are slain during an al-Shabaab attack.
2013.01.19 Nigeria Kano 5 0 At least five people are killed in an attempted Boko Haram assassination of a popular emir.
2013.01.19 Algeria Tigantourine 48 0 Twenty three hostages are killed by their Islamic captors during a rescue attempt. Twenty-five more are found summarily executed
2013.01.19 Cameroon Kousseri 1 0 Islamists shoot a man execution style.
2013.01.18 Pakistan Khuzdar 1 0 A Shiite is gunned down by Sipah-e-Sahaba terrorists at a market.
2013.01.18 Nigeria Kaduna 1 1 A 7-month-old baby is shot during an Islamic terror attack.
2013.01.18 Thailand Pattani 1 1 Islamic gunmen fire into a pickup truck, killing the driver.
2013.01.18 Somalia Mogadishu 1 0 A journalist is picked off by alleged al-Shabaab gunmen.
2013.01.18 Syria Daraa 5 12 Suicide car bombers attack a rival mosque, killing at least five.
2013.01.18 Pakistan Sur Kas 2 1 Laskhar-e-Islam mortar a family home, killing the mother and father and severely injuring their girl.
2013.01.18 Lebanon Roumieh 1 0 An inmate at a prison is murdered by hardcore Fatah al-Islam fundamentalists.
2013.01.18 Nigeria Kaduna 2 0 Two police officers are gunned down by Boko Haram.
2013.01.17 Thailand Pattani 0 3 Islamic militants shoot three sanitation workers, one in the head.
2013.01.17 Thailand Narathiwat 1 0 Islamic 'insurgents' murder a school truck driver in front of seven children.
2013.01.17 Pakistan Karachi 4 0 A prominent anti-Taliban politician and three body guards are murdered by Jihadis.
2013.01.17 Thailand Pattani 1 0 A 78-year-old farmer is shot to death in a bath tub by Muslim terrorists.
2013.01.17 Iraq Dujail 11 60 Eleven Shia pilgrims are sent to Allah by dedicated Sunni car bombers.
2013.01.17 Iraq Hilla 7 17 al-Qaeda detonate a car bomb outside a soccer stadium in a Shia neighborhood, killing at least seven.
2013.01.17 Pakistan Karachi 1 0 A Shia civilian is murdered by Sunni gunmen at a market.
2013.01.17 Iraq Qassim 5 20 Five Shia pilgrims on foot are torn to shreds following an Islamic Army of Iraq bomb at a bus stop.
2013.01.17 Kenya Garissa 5 4 Religious extremists burst into a restaurant and gun down five patrons.
2013.01.17 Thailand Yala 1 0 A 28-year-old villager is murdered by Muslim extremists.
2013.01.17 Iraq Karbala 4 12 Four lives are lost when a bus carrying Shia pilgrims is targeted by al-Qaeda bombers.
2013.01.16 Algeria Tigantourine 2 6 Armed Islamists attack an oil field, killing two people they identified as Christians and kidnapping over a hundred workers.
2013.01.16 Afghanistan Kabul 3 30 Three civilians are murdered by Fedayeen suicide bombers.
2013.01.16 Iraq Tuz Khurmato 3 37 Holy Warriors take out three locals.
2013.01.16 Iraq Baji 7 0 Seven Iraqis are killed in a handful of Mujahideen attacks.
2013.01.16 Nigeria Jos 4 2 Four Christians are the victims of a Muslim drive-by.
2013.01.16 Syria Idlib 22 30 al-Nusra suicide bombers massacre two dozen Syrians in an urban area.
2013.01.16 Iraq Kirkuk 21 170 Two-dozen shoppers are massacred by suicide truck bombers in a commercial district.
2013.01.16 Yemen Dhammar 1 0 A security official is assassinated by al-Qaeda.
2013.01.16 Bangladesh Dhaka 0 1 An atheist blogger is stabbed by three Islamic fundamentalists.
2013.01.16 Pakistan Karachi 1 0 A 58-year-old Shiite is murdered by Wahhabi gunmen.
2013.01.15 Norway Haugesund 0 2 A Muslim stabs two Christians who converted from Islam.
2013.01.15 Libya Misrata 1 5 An child loses an eye and an imam loses his life when rivals throw a grenade at him.
2013.01.15 Pakistan Karachi 1 0 Sipah-e-Sahaba gunmen pick off a Shiite.
2013.01.15 Dagestan Makhachkala 1 0 Suspected Islamic 'separatists' assassinate a prominent judge.
2013.01.15 Philippines Midsayap 2 0 Moro Islamists are blamed for a shooting that leaves two dead.
2013.01.15 Dagestan Makhachkala 1 0 Suspected Islamists assassinate a judge.
2013.01.15 Nigeria Kano 4 0 Four policemen are massacred by Boko Haram Islamists.
2013.01.15 Iraq Fallujah 7 6 A Fedayeen suicide bomber takes out seven Iraqis.
2013.01.15 Pakistan Shalobar 6 28 Attacks by Lashkar-e-Islam on local security posts leave six innocents dead.
2013.01.15 Pakistan Surjani 1 0 A 30-year-old Shia is gunned down by sectarian Jihadis.
2013.01.14 Pakistan Khar Kallay 1 8 A bombing attack on a van full of Shia leaves one dead.
2013.01.14 Pakistan Kohikhel 3 0 Islamic extremists behead three captured tribesmen.

That's just thirty days. The trouble is that every thirty days looks like that in The Religion of Peace

How could so many misunderstand the true loving nature of Islam?
 

Abu Ali (0)
Saturday February 16, 2013, 11:28 pm
Pat

That's because a lot of those are done by the same organizations, or done against the Islamic minority which I might add doesn't just happen with Islam, picking on minority in anything happens a lot. All of those were also done in countries with poverty and low literacy rates just like I said.

Did you even read any of the Quran text I posted?
 

Abu Ali (0)
Saturday February 16, 2013, 11:30 pm
All that evidence I posted obviously means that it isn't Islam itself, but some third-party force acting on it
 

Carol Dreeszen (364)
Saturday February 16, 2013, 11:32 pm
They aren't working to destroy the country, Muslims aren't working to destroy the country mate and important people in American government that are muslims are just fine.

Sorry Abu..But you are SO WRONG!!!!!!!!!!! If you can't see what Obama has done to this country since he has been in then you are intentionally blind! That statement above here proves to me you refuse to believe the truth!!
 

Patricia Martin (19)
Saturday February 16, 2013, 11:37 pm
Excuses, excuses.

Nope, a lot of them are NOT done by the same organizations. The common element is their belief in the supremacy of Islam, that it must be forced down the throats of non-believers.

Much of Jihad in the affluent world does not even occur in the realm of the violent -- YET. It is not the right time.

THE LARGEST Islamic organization in the world, the Muslim Brotherhood, has as its motto:

'Allah is our objective;
the Prophet is our leader;
the Quran is our law;
Jihad is our way;
dying in the way of Allah is our highest hope."

And "technically" they're not "violent". Ha ha.

But their methods of Jihad in affluent countries are very sophisticated.

No, I didn't read the texts of the Qur'an you posted, and I told you I will not unless you break each verse up.
 

Carol Dreeszen (364)
Saturday February 16, 2013, 11:38 pm
And those important people that you consider just fine in our government are from the Muslim Brotherhood..the same people who are making it hell for those people in Egypt right now and many other countries! NO...I am sorry but they are the ones who are trying to get control of our country and they are NOT just fine!!
 

Abu Ali (0)
Saturday February 16, 2013, 11:40 pm
Wow now you're just purposing ignoring evidence because you can't just face it that you're wrong. Just read the text it doesn't need to be broken up.

The Muslim Brotherhood is just an embarrassment on the name of Allah and should along with all other terrorists be stopped.
 

Patricia Martin (19)
Saturday February 16, 2013, 11:43 pm
Who you talking to, Abu?
 

Abu Ali (0)
Saturday February 16, 2013, 11:44 pm
Carol, Obama and John are not from the Muslim Brotherhood. What evidence do you even have for that
 

Abu Ali (0)
Saturday February 16, 2013, 11:44 pm
Pat, figure it out. Who was just talking about the needing of that text broken up? You can use context clues
 

Patricia Martin (19)
Saturday February 16, 2013, 11:49 pm
You are engaging in textual terrorism. ;)

It is inconsiderate to make people plow through that much text without.

All you do is sidestep information. You still haven't addressed the points you asked me to address and I did.

All you do is deny and wriggle.

The majority of Islam understand it to be supremacist and it behaves that way.
 

Abu Ali (0)
Saturday February 16, 2013, 11:54 pm
And what points did I not address?
 

Carol Dreeszen (364)
Saturday February 16, 2013, 11:54 pm
Abu...I said they were Muslims...not the Muslim Brotherhood..you better re-read what I wrote..I said one was a convert to Islam!! Correct!?
 

Carol Dreeszen (364)
Saturday February 16, 2013, 11:55 pm
But they BACK the Muslim Brotherhood!!! They are both EVIL people!
 

Patricia Martin (19)
Saturday February 16, 2013, 11:56 pm
I do not like unbroken text. I will only read it by verse.

You can do that, no?
 

Carol Dreeszen (364)
Saturday February 16, 2013, 11:58 pm
The Muslim Brotherhood is just an embarrassment on the name of Allah and should along with all other terrorists be stopped.

Then Muslims better start doing something about them!!! The rest of the world is tired of being the "go to guys" to wipe those worthless scum out!!
 

Abu Ali (0)
Sunday February 17, 2013, 12:03 am
Carol, we never really asked you to deal with the Brotherhood, and yes I agree we should do something.

Also Pat what text are you really talking about?
 

Carol Dreeszen (364)
Sunday February 17, 2013, 12:03 am
Also a rebuttal to your there are poor people who aren't terrorists. Yes that's true but that takes up all of the Islamics that aren't terrorists. Look at the US, crime rates directly follow with poverty rates. Like Ghettos and such, there's a lot of crime there because people can't afford anything so they are forced to steal from others.

Ztt..Ztttt....Ztttttttt...........Sorry NOBODY is EVER FORCED to steal from somebody!! That is a lame a*s excuse to make the act of stealing alright and it's NOT!! Where there is a will there is a way!!! Everyone has the very same opportunity to make good no matter WHAT the circumstances are! Stealing is never an option! Only a criminal would steal..not a good honest person! If you really think that is justification for stealing then you will settle for any argument or reason why anything is done..legal or otherwise!
 

Patricia Martin (19)
Sunday February 17, 2013, 12:04 am
It's a good point, Carol.

Maybe in a world, where the vast majority of Muslims believe that Islam and they are better than everyone else, and it's okay to treat non-Muslims or Achmaddiyah as inferior, except when Muslims are in A POSITION OF WEAKNESS, then Abu ought to go tell all those misunderstanders of Islam where they're wrong in their thinking, rather than tell us.
 

Carol Dreeszen (364)
Sunday February 17, 2013, 12:09 am
Carol, we never really asked you to deal with the Brotherhood, and yes I agree we should do something.

Abu..How can we not when this worthless scum ball President brings them INTO the White House...can you not see we as Americans citizens are FORCED to deal with them now!? There are many people affiliated with the Muslim Brotherhood in this country today!! I do not want ANY OF THEM here! if it were up to me I would send them all home but when we have a Muslim President that is pretty hard for "We The People" to do!
 

Abu Ali (0)
Sunday February 17, 2013, 12:13 am
Oh boy, I see this is really getting no where. We're just going in circles since you guys are just too ignorant to hear the truth so I'm afraid that I'm just going to have to quit here. If you go and actually read the paragraphs which I am not going to separate for you since you can read them, you might get some information on Islam that will prove to you that Islam isn't bad. Hopefully this will have enlightened you, but I somehow doubt that. I am going to once again recommend for you to go to this website:

http://www.answering-christianity.com/quran/persecute.htm

Ignore the 9/11 conspiracy the website actually holds some good information about the lies against Islam.

Carol, there are plenty of situations where some are just forced to steal. With the recession getting worse and worse it's near impossible to get a job.

Fi Amaan Allah my brothers.
 

Carol Dreeszen (364)
Sunday February 17, 2013, 12:18 am
Thanks Patricia! In a way I can see why Abu feels the way he does on the other hand I know another young Iraqi man that says he is not sold 100% on the Koran..in other words he is flexible to believe something else which tells me he has a mind of his own and is not brick solid on the beliefs of Islam. Wonderful young man and I would love to see him be able to come to the US..he wants to desperately but there is no one who can represent him in order to get him over here! I have known him now I think for at least 6 months and I helped him with his college courses over there and he and his Mother and Father were eternally grateful for me helping him. Super wonderful family! They even had some of the troops when they were there in their home for a family meal together with them!! Just wonderful people!
 

Patricia Martin (19)
Sunday February 17, 2013, 12:21 am
Unfortunately, the Muslims who are good people (and yes both Carol and I believe that there are Muslims who are good people) are the ones who are ultimately fatwa-ed out or otherwise eliminated by the majority of "misunderstanders".

A fatwa calling someone an apostate from Islam is a dead man, because it's a capital offense, according to Sharia, to leave Islam. Carol and I didn't make up the rules of Islam. They're something that we're going to have to try to survive. The story below is typical of what happens when a Muslim breaks ranks with the MAJORITY of Muslims.

Death threats to UK's top Muslim MP who voted for gay marriage

Police have told Sadiq Khan he should review the security around him and his family following the Commons vote
Officers in his Tooting constituency in London have been put on high alert
Khan was among 400 MPs, five Muslim, who voted in favour of the bill

By Abul Taher

PUBLISHED: 17:14 EST, 16 February 2013 | UPDATED: 20:40 EST, 16 February 2013

Sadiq Khan, Labour's Shadow Business Secretary, has received death threats after voting in favour of gay marriage

Sadiq Khan, Labour's Shadow Justice Secretary, has received death threats after voting in favour of gay marriage

Britain's most senior Muslim MP has received death threats after voting in favour of gay marriage.

Police have told Sadiq Khan, Labour’s Shadow Justice Secretary, that the threats are credible enough that he should review the security around him and his family following the Commons vote.

Officers in his Tooting constituency in London have been put on high alert, and will respond ‘extra-quick’ should an incident be reported at his home.

The Metropolitan Police has also advised Mr Khan, 42, that they may put more officers around him if further threats are made.

He told one friend he was especially concerned about those close to him, saying: ‘My family do not need to suffer for what I have to do for my job.

'I’ve not had threats like this before.’

Mr Khan was among 400 MPs, five of them Muslim, who voted in favour of the Marriage (Same Sex Couples) Bill at the beginning of this month.

It is believed Mr Khan, who was campaign manager for Ed Miliband’s successful leadership bid, has been singled out as he is the most prominent Muslim MP.

Mr Khan – who became Britain’s first Muslim Minister to attend Cabinet in the last Government – has been condemned by British-based hardline clerics, who have accused him of ‘selling out’ his religion.

Mufti Muhammed Aslam Naqshbandi Bandhalevi, who is the head imam of the Jamia Islamia Rizvia mosque in Bradford, has issued a fatwa, or ruling, declaring Mr Khan an ‘apostate’ from Islam and said he should ‘repent before Allah’.

Some veiled threats against all the Muslim MPs who backed gay marriage are visible online.

Another website, called Izharudeen.com, warns: ‘Time to account these apostate MPs, they changed something that Allah made haram to halal [lawful] by voting for gay marriages.’

Security sources have said that when extremists declare a fellow Muslim ‘apostate’, it is usually a way of legitimising violent attacks on them.

But moderate Muslim groups have condemned the threats.

Inayat Bunglawala, of Muslims4UK, said: ‘It is deeply worrying to see that Sadiq Khan has been subjected to these sinister threats.

‘He is a working-class Muslim from South London who has done well.

‘Instead of vilifying him as an apostate, his short-sighted and bigoted detractors would do better by looking to him as a talented and hard-working role model for young Muslims.’

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2279703/Death-threats-UKs-Muslim-MP-voted-gay-marriage.html#ixzz2L8s0sHw2
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
 

Carol Dreeszen (364)
Sunday February 17, 2013, 12:23 am
Carol, there are plenty of situations where some are just forced to steal. With the recession getting worse and worse it's near impossible to get a job.

BS to that Abu!! That's a lazy a*s excuse!!! And if you think I will believe the Koran then you are not as smart as I gave you credit for!!
 

Patricia Martin (19)
Sunday February 17, 2013, 12:25 am
Maybe some of these are what you're thinking of, Abu....

Why the Violence? Why the Indifference?

On September 25, 2002, a group of armed Muslims in Karachi, Pakistan entered the office of a Christian charity, tied seven workers to chairs and then brutally murdered them. According to Muslim witnesses, the Islamists "showed no haste. They took a good 15 minutes in segregating the Christians and making sure that each one of their targets received the most horrific death."

The killing of non-Muslim humanitarian workers by devout followers of Islam occurs quite often. While there is rarely any celebration on the part of other Muslims, neither is there much outrage expressed by a community renowned for its peevishness.

While rumors of a Quran desecration or a Muhammad cartoon bring out deadly protests, riots, arson and effigy-burnings, the mass murder of non-Muslims generally evokes yawns. In the eleven years following 9/11 nearly 20,000 acts of deadly Islamic terrorism were perpetrated, yet all of them together fail to provoke the sort of outrage on the part of most Muslims that the mere mention of Abu Ghraib or Guantanamo inspires.

This critical absence of moral perspective puzzles many Westerners, particularly those trying to reconcile this reality with the politically-correct assumption that Islam is like other religion. The Judeo-Christian tradition preaches universal love and unselfishness, so it is expected that the more devout Muslims would be the most peaceful and least dangerous... provided that Islam is based on the same principles.

But beneath the rosy assurances from Muslim apologists that Islam is about peace and tolerance lies a much darker reality that better explains the violence and deeply-rooted indifference. Quite simply, the Quran teaches supremacy, hatred and hostility.

Consider the elements that define hate speech:

Drawing a distinction between one’s own identity group and those outside it

Moral comparison based on this distinction

Devaluation or dehumanization of other groups and the personal superiority of one's own

The advocating of different standards of treatment based on identity group membership

A call to violence against members of other groups

Sadly, and despite the best intentions of many decent people who are Muslim, the Quran qualifies as hate speech on each count.

The holiest book of Islam (61% of which is about non-Muslims) draws the sharpest of distinctions between Muslims (the best of people, 3:110) and non-believers (the worst of creatures, 98:6). Praise is lavished on the former while the latter is condemned with scorching generalization. Far from teaching universal love, the Quran incessantly preaches the inferiority of non-Muslims, even comparing them to vile animals and gloating over Allah's hatred of them and his dark plans for their eternal torture. Naturally, the harsh treatment of non-believers by Muslims is encouraged as well.

So, what does the Quran, believed by Muslims to be the literal and eternal word of Allah, really say about non-Muslims?



The Quran Distinguishes Muslims from Non-Muslims
and Establishes a Hierarchy of Relative Worth

The Quran makes it clear that Islam is not about universal brotherhood, but about the brotherhood of believers:

The Believers are but a single Brotherhood (49:10)

Not all men are equal under Islam. Slaves and the handicapped are not equal to healthy free men, for example (16:75-76). The Quran introduces the “Law of Equality,” which establishes different levels of human value when considering certain matters, such as restitution for murder (2:178).

Neither are Muslim believers equal to non-Muslims:

Are those who know equal to those who know not? (39:09)

Is the blind equal to the one who sees" Or darkness equal to light? (13:16)

The Quran plainly tells Muslims that they are a favored race, while those of other religions are “perverted transgressors”:

Ye are the best of peoples, evolved for mankind, enjoining what is right, forbidding what is wrong, and believing in Allah. If only the People of the Book [Christians and Jews] had faith, it were best for them: among them are some who have faith, but most of them are perverted transgressors. (3:110)

As we shall see later, Allah condemns non-Muslims to Hell based merely on their unbelief, while believers are rewarded with the finest earthly comforts in the hereafter, including never-ending food, wine and sex (56:12-40). In fact, much of the Quran is devoted to distinguishing Muslims from non-Muslims and impugning the latter.

The first sura of the Quran is an example of this. It is a short prayer that is repeated by devout Muslims each day and ends with these words:

Keep us on the right path. The path of those upon whom Thou hast bestowed favors. Not (the path) of those upon whom Thy wrath is brought down, nor of those who go astray. (1:6-7)

Muhammad was once asked if these words pertained to Jews and Christians. His response was, "Whom else?" (Bukhari 56:662).

Since Allah makes such a strong distinction between Muslims and those outside the faith, it is only natural that Muslims should incorporate disparate standards of treatment into their daily lives. The Quran tells Muslims to be compassionate with one another but ruthless to the infidel:

Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves… (48:29)

Allah intends for Muslims to triumph over unbelievers:

And never will Allah grant to the unbelievers a way to triumph over believers [Pickthall – “any way of success”] (4:141)

The only acceptable position of non-Muslims to Muslims is subjugation under Islamic rule:

Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. (9:29 Jizya is the money that non-Muslims must pay to their Muslim overlords in a pure Islamic state.)

A common criticism of many Muslims is that they often behave arrogantly toward others. Now you know why.



The Quran Dehumanizes Non-Muslims
and Says that They are Vile Animals

The Ayatollah Khomeini, who dedicated his entire life to studying Islam, said that non-Muslims rank somewhere between "feces" and the "sweat of a camel that has consumed impure food." Small wonder. The Quran dehumanizes non-Muslims, describing them as “animals” and beasts:

Those who disbelieve from among the People of the Book and among the Polytheists, will be in Hell-Fire, to dwell therein (for aye). They are the worst of creatures. (98:6)

Surely the vilest of animals in Allah's sight are those who disbelieve, then they would not believe. (8:55)

Verse 7:176 compares unbelievers to "panting dogs" with regard to their idiocy and worthlessness. Verse 7:179 says they are like "cattle" only worse.

Verse 5:60 even says that Allah transformed Jews of the past into apes and pigs. This is echoed by verses 7:166 and 2:65.

A hadith (Bukhari 54:524) says that Muhammad believed rats to be "mutated Jews" (also confirmed by Sahih Muslim 7135 and 7136).

Verses 46:29-35 even say that unbelieving men are worse than the demons who believe in Muhammad.

According to Islamic law, non-Muslims may be owned as property by Muslims, but - in keeping with Islam's supremacist message - a fellow Muslim should never be (unless they convert to Islam after enslavement). Even Christians and Jews are not considered fully human in that the penalty for killing one of them is limited to one-third of the compensation due for unintentionally killing a Muslim.



The Quran Says that Allah does NOT Love Unbelievers

Christianity teaches that God loves all people, but hates sin. The Quran never says this. Instead it explicitly declares that Allah does not love those who do not believe in him:

He does not love the unbelievers (30:45)

Allah only loves those who obey Muhammad (at least according to Muhammad, who provided the "narration"):

Say: "Obey Allah and His Messenger": But if they turn back, Allah loveth not those who reject Faith. (3:32)

Instead of a god that loves the sinner, even while hating the sin, the wrath of Allah is placed squarely on the individual:

Surely Allah does not love any one who is unfaithful, ungrateful. (22:38)

Verses 11:118-199 say that Allah does not bestow mercy on everyone. For this reason, he chooses not to guide some people:

And Allah's is the direction of the way, and some (roads) go not straight. And had He willed He would have led you all aright. (16:9)

For those whom Allah does not love, there will be the most terrible of eternal torments, including eternal roasting:

Those who reject our Signs, We shall soon cast into the Fire: as often as their skins are roasted through, We shall change them for fresh skins, that they may taste the penalty: for Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise. (4:56)

"Allah is the enemy of the unbelievers" (2:98) and, as we shall see, he hates them so much that he even leads them into sinning and actively prevents them from believing in him, thus ensuring their fate.



The Quran Says that Non-Muslims are
Destined for Eternal Torture in Hell

Although nowhere does the Quran say that Allah loves those who don’t believe Muhammad, there are over 400 verses that describe the torment that he has prepared for people of other religions (or no religion):

And whoever desires a religion other than Islam, it shall not be accepted from him, and in the hereafter he shall be one of the losers (3:85)

The relative worth of non-Muslims is that they are but fuel for the fire of Hell:

(As for) those who disbelieve, surely neither their wealth nor their children shall avail them in the least against Allah, and these it is who are the fuel of the fire (3:10 Shakir: "firewood of hell")

As they are fueling the fire, unbelievers will be tormented by Allah’s angels on his command:

“O ye who believe! Ward off from yourselves and your families a Fire whereof the fuel is men and stones, over which are set angels strong, severe, who resist not Allah in that which He commandeth them, but do that which they are commanded.” (66:6)

It doesn’t matter how many good deeds an unbeliever does, because they count for nothing with Allah:

The parable of those who reject their Lord is that their works are as ashes, on which the wind blows furiously on a tempestuous day: No power have they over aught that they have earned (14:18)

Shall we tell you of those who lose most in respect of their deeds? Those whose efforts have been wasted in this life, while they thought that they were acquiring good by their works? They are those who deny the Signs of their Lord and the fact of their having to meet Him (in the Hereafter): vain will be their works, nor shall We, on the Day of Judgment, give them any weight. That is their reward, Hell, because they rejected Faith, and took My Signs and My Messengers by way of jest. (18:103-106)

Muhammad told his people that anyone who rejects his claim to be a prophet will go to Hell:

Surely those who disbelieve in Allah and His messengers and (those who) desire to make a distinction between Allah and His messengers and say: ‘We believe in some and disbelieve in others’, and desire to take a course between (this and) that. These it is that are truly unbelievers, and We have prepared for the unbelievers a disgraceful chastisement. And those who believe in Allah and His messengers and do not make a distinction between any of them-- Allah will grant them their rewards (4:150-152)

In Christianity, punishment in the hereafter is directly tied to sin and ‘wickedness.’ There is relatively little said about Hell, but the emphasis is on personal suffering for selfish or cruel deeds. In Islam, Hell is a punishment for merely not believing Muhammad’s personal claims about himself. In contrast to the Bible, every 12th verse of the Quran speaks of Hell and vividly describes Allah’s wrath on unbelievers:

But as for those who disbelieve, garments of fire will be cut out for them; boiling fluid will be poured down on their heads, Whereby that which is in their bellies, and their skins too, will be melted; And for them are hooked rods of iron Whenever, in their anguish, they would go forth from thence they are driven back therein and (it is said unto them): Taste the doom of burning. (22:19-22)

No one could torture a person in this way without hating them intensely. Neither can Allah’s intense loathing for unbelievers help but affect the Muslim attitude toward those outside the faith.

The personal superiority of Muslims is confirmed by the contrasting picture painted in so many places in the Quran in which they are rewarded with the greatest of earthly comforts in heaven, while the unbelievers concurrently suffer horrible torment (see Sura 56 for just one example).



Allah Himself Prevents Non-Muslims from Understanding

It would make no sense if Allah gave the people that he hates an opportunity to avoid his wrath. The Quran says that Allah deliberately puts obstacles in the way of unbelievers to keep them from accepting the truth:

If Allah wished, he could provide guidance to every soul:

If We had so willed, We could certainly have brought every soul its true guidance (32:13)

But, instead he sets a veil over the hearts and coverings over their ears:

Verily We have set veils over their hearts lest they should understand this, and over their ears, deafness, if thou callest them to guidance, even then will they never accept guidance. (18:57) – See also 17:46 & 45:23

Allah even uses chains and barriers to prevent unbelievers from believing:

Certainly the word has proved true of most of them, so they do not believe. Surely We have placed chains on their necks, and these reach up to their chins, so they have their heads raised aloft. And We have made before them a barrier and a barrier behind them, then We have covered them over so that they do not see. And it is alike to them whether you warn them or warn them not: they do not believe. (36:7-10)

For the same purpose, Allah also fills the hearts of unbelievers with doubt:

No soul can believe, except by the will of Allah, and He will place doubt (or obscurity) on those who will not understand (10:100)



Allah Actually Causes Non-Muslims to Sin

Not content with merely preventing unbelievers from knowing the truth (which is enough to condemn them to Hell) the Quran says that a hateful Allah also causes unbelievers to commit the very sin that he will later punish them for:

And if Allah please He would certainly make you a single nation, but He causes to err whom He pleases and guides whom He pleases; and most certainly you will be questioned as to what you did (16:93)

Although Satan tempts Muslims, it is Allah himself who causes unbelievers to err.

…and whomsoever Allah causes to err, you shall not find a way for him. (4:143, see also 4:88 and 74:31)

Allah intentionally sends the people that he hates astray:

…and Allah sendeth him astray purposely, and sealeth up his hearing and his heart, and setteth on his sight a covering? Then who will lead him after Allah (hath condemned him)? Will ye not then heed? (45:23)

Allah even sends demons to inspire unbelievers to commit further bad deeds (that he can later hold against them):

See thou not that We have set the Evil Ones on against the unbelievers, to incite them with fury? (19:83)

According to verse 3:54, Allah plots and schemes against unbelievers using deceit (the literal meaning of makara, the word used). Elsewhere, the Quran explains that Allah tricks unbelievers into thinking that they are doing good deeds, when, in fact, they are merely deepening their own eternal punishment with bad deeds:

As to those who do not believe in the hereafter, We have surely made their deeds fair-seeming to them, but they blindly wander on. (27:4) See also 39:23, 6:39, 35:8, 13:27 & 14:4)

Allah recruits Satan to join Him into fooling unbelievers into thinking that they are doing good:

On the contrary their hearts became hardened, and Satan made their (sinful) acts seem alluring to them. (6:43)

The joke is on non-Muslims, of course, who will protest on Judgment Day that they did everything they thought was right – but are sent to Hell anyway:

Then would they offer submission (with the pretence), "We did no evil (knowingly)." (The angels will reply), "Nay, but verily Allah knows all that ye did; "So enter the gates of Hell, to dwell therein. (16:28-29)



The Quran Says that Non-Muslims Should Not be Taken as Friends

Given that Allah hates non-Muslims to the extent that he would prevent them from knowing the truth, cause them to err and then condemn them to eternal torture for their unbelief and misdeeds, it would make little sense if he intended Muslims to treat unbelievers by the same standards that they treat each other here on earth.

The Quran says that no true Muslim would ever love anyone who resists Islam, even if it is a family member:

Thou wilt not find any people who believe in Allah and the Last Day, loving those who resist Allah and His Messenger, even though they were their fathers or their sons, or their brothers, or their kindred. (58:22)

There are at least nine places in the Quran where believers are warned not to befriend non-Muslims:

O ye who believe! Take not for friends unbelievers rather than believers: Do ye wish to offer Allah an open proof against yourselves? (4:144)

In fact, anyone who does take a non-Muslim as a friend could be accused of being an unbeliever as well:

O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. They are friends one to another. He among you who taketh them for friends is (one) of them. Lo! Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk. (5:51)

Note that Christians, according to the Quran, are included in the ranks of "unbelievers":

They indeed have disbelieved who say: Lo! Allah is the Messiah, son of Mary (5:17)

Muhammad said that unbelievers have it out for Muslims. They may appear harmless or friendly, but, in reality, they harbor corruption and evil intentions:

O ye who believe! Take not into your intimacy those outside your ranks: They will not fail to corrupt you. They only desire your ruin: Rank hatred has already appeared from their mouths: What their hearts conceal is far worse (3:118)

For the Unbelievers are unto you open enemies (4:101)

As for them, they are but plotting a scheme (86:15)

Those outside of Islam are really helpers of evil against Allah:

The Misbeliever is a helper (of Evil), against his own Lord! (25:55)

The Quran says that "hostility and hate" will exist between Muslims and infidels "for ever" until the latter "believe in Allah alone." (60:4)

Instead of befriending non-Muslims, the Quran encourages hostility. Muslims are ordered to fight unbelievers:

O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty. (9:123)

The Quran tells Muslims that they will spend eternity laughing at unbelievers (83:34) and mocking their suffering as they are tortured in Hell:

And the dwellers of the garden will call out to the inmates of the fire: Surely we have found what our Lord promised us to be true; have you too found what your Lord promised to be true? They will say: Yes. Then a crier will cry out among them that the curse of Allah is on the unjust. (7:44) – Muhammad got an early start on this by personally mocking his dead enemies following the Battle of Badr (Ibn Ishaq 454)

One does not befriend those over whose suffering they will later rejoice, nor does it make any sense that Muslims would befriend those whom the Quran labels "enemies of Allah" by virtue of their unbelief.



The Quran Says that Other Religions are Cursed by Allah

Buddhists in Thailand, Jews in Israel, Christians in Indonesia, Hindus in India... Why is Islam at war with every major world religion, when none of these religions are at war with each other? Part of the reason is that the Quran is specific about the inferiority of other faiths (see 48:28) and the hatred that Allah harbors for their people.

Although it is common for Muslims to become upset about anyone “insulting” their religion, here is what the Quran says about Jews and Christians:

The Jews call Ezra a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth! (9:30) (See also Bukhari 8:427), one of the last things Muhammad ever said on his deathbed was "May Allah curse the Jews and Christians.”)

The Quran specifically addresses Christians, Jews, Polytheists (Hindus) and atheists:

Christians are disbelievers (98:5-6) and blasphemers (5:17, 5:73) who have invented a lie about Allah (10:68-69) by ascribing partners to Allah (ie. the Trinity). Inventing a lie about Allah is the worst of sins (7:37, 29:68) and for this reason Christians are condemned to Hell (10:70). Although one (early Medinan) verse seems to say that righteous Christians will go to heaven, this is abrogated by later verses that make it very clear that Christians must cease being Christian (ie. reject the Trinity) or suffer eternal torment for their beliefs (5:72-73).

Jews are also cursed by Allah (5:13), in one of his final pronouncements. The Quran goes on to assure Muslims that Jews are wicked (4:160-162) – so wicked, in fact, that they have somehow managed to do the impossible (18:27) and alter the word of Allah (2:75). Jews are “fond of lies” and “devour the forbidden” (5:42).

The Quran assures believers that Jews and Christians have “diseased hearts” (5:52). Allah even takes credit for the enmity between them (5:14). Only Jews and Christians who submit to Islamic subjugation and pay the Jizya are protected in this world (9:29 & Ibn Ishaq 956).

Hindus are polytheists. Although Muhammad didn’t know any Hindus (and neither did Allah, apparently) the Quran still manages to lay the groundwork for the 1000 year ethnic cleansing campaign against the Hindu people that is estimated to have taken tens of millions of innocent lives. In Islam, polytheists are worse than all other religion. Those who join idols (14:30) or false gods (11:14) to Allah also invent a lie about Him (29:17) and will burn in Hell. Even believing in other divine entities along with Allah is an unforgivable crime (4:48, 40:12).

Atheists believe in no god, which is even worse than believing in the wrong one (Muhammad and his successors had atheists put to death - Bukhari 84:57). Merely questioning the existence of Allah is a testament to one’s impiety (25:21), even as Muslim narcissim is encouraged in the Quran. Muhammad always answered probing questions merely by telling the inquiring party that they would go to Hell if they didn’t believe in him (36:49-64). The Quran discourages Muslims from intellectual inquiry (5:101-102).

Any Muslim who gives up his religion is a “perverted transgressor” (3:82). Perverted as well is anyone who denies Allah (40:63) or does not believe Muhammad (2:99). Freedom of conscience does not exist in Islam. Muhammad clearly prescribed the death penalty for apostates (Bukhari 52:260).

While contemporary Muslim apologists often speak of “dialogue” (meaning a unilateral arrangement in which they tell you about Islam while you listen) the Quran speaks of Jihad instead:

Listen not to the unbelievers, but strive (Jihad) against them with the utmost strenuousness. (25:52)

What would be the point in hearing anything a non-Muslim has to say... or even talking with them for that matter? Allah has already sealed their hearts and condemned them to Hell:

As for the Disbelievers, Whether thou warn them or thou warn them not it is all one for them; they believe not. Allah hath sealed their hearing and their hearts, and on their eyes there is a covering. Theirs will be an awful doom (2:6)

For those wondering why Allah would even make infidels if their ultimate destination is Hell, Muhammad said that the purpose of some (Jews and Christians, at least) was to take the place of Muslims, so that they would not suffer there (Sahih Muslim 6666).



The Quran Says that People of Other Religions
are to be Violently Punished in This World

Allah himself fights against the unbelievers (9:30), so why should Muslims not fight in his cause rather than in the cause of evil (4:76)? About 19% of the Quran is devoted to the violent conquest and subjugation of non-Muslims:

Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power, including steeds of war, to strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies of Allah and your enemies and others besides, whom ye may not know (8:60)

Strive hard (Jihad) against the Unbelievers and the Hypocrites, and be firm against them. Their abode is Hell,- an evil refuge indeed. (66:9, See also 9:73)

Muslims are to expect a reward in this life as well as the next (4:134), so it makes sense that unbelievers should be punished in this life as well:

…He whom Allah sendeth astray, for him there is no guide. For them is a penalty in the life of this world, but harder, truly, is the penalty of the Hereafter… (13:33-34)

There are at least two places in the Quran where the violent death of non-Muslims is referred to as Allah's reward for unbelief (2:191, 9:26), as in "such is the reward for unbelievers." Verse 3:56, bluntly states that "those who reject faith" will be "punished with terrible agony in this world" (a vow that Muhammad and his companions personally took it upon themselves to fulfill).

In the end, All beings on heaven and earth will be forced to bow down to Allah, either willingly or by force:

And unto Allah falleth prostrate whosoever is in the heavens and the earth, willingly or unwillingly (13:15)

Those who resist Islam will be humiliated:

Those who resist Allah and His Messenger will be among those most humiliated. (58:20 - The context for this verse is the eviction of the Jewish tribes of Medina and the confiscation of their wealth, land, and children by Muhammad).

Non-Muslims are to be fought until religion is only for Allah:

And fight them until there is no more ftna (unbelief, worshipping others beside Allah), and religion is all for Allah… (8:39 – Some translate the word "fitna" as “persecution”, but in this context it means resistance to Islam – defined in the prior verse as an unwillingness to believe (see verse 38). This passage was “revealed” following a battle that Muhammad deliberately provoked. Verse 2:193 essentially says the same thing and was also “revealed” at a time when the Muslims were not under physical attack).

Those with "diseased hearts" - which include Christians and Jews according to 5:52 - are to be "seized wherever found and slain with a (fierce) slaughter" (33:60-62) along with "hypocrites" (Muslims who are judged not to be true believers by their associations with unbelievers or their unwillingness to engage in Jihad).

Non-Muslims are to be encroached on, pressured and punished by the Muslims:

See they not that We gradually reduce the land (in their control) from its outlying borders? (13:41 - See also 21:44)

We shall punish them gradually from directions they perceive not. (68:44)

And He made you heirs to their land and their dwellings and their property, and (to) a land which you have not yet trodden, and Allah has power over all things. (33:27, See also Bukhari 53:392)

Allah will grant Muslims authority and power over all other people:

Allah has promised, to those among you who believe and work righteous deeds, that He will, of a surety, grant them in the land, inheritance (of power), as He granted it to those before them; that He will establish in authority their religion... (24:55)

(Muhammad's companions continued to self-fulfill this prophecy with an aggressive and senseless military expansion that left a trail of bodies from Spain to India).

Allah provides instructions to Muslims for dealing with unbelievers who are unwilling to accept Islamic rule:

Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instill terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them." This because they contended against Allah and His Messenger: If any contend against Allah and His Messenger, Allah is strict in punishment. (8:12-13)

Defeating non-Muslims should be easy for true believers because they are superior in intelligence and understanding:

O Prophet! Exhort the believers to fight. If there be of you twenty steadfast they shall overcome two hundred, and if there be of you a hundred (steadfast) they shall overcome a thousand of those who disbelieve, because they (the disbelievers) are a folk without intelligence (8:65)

Other verses of violence may be found here.

Remember that the Quran says that not all men are equal according to Islam. This even applies to Muslims with regard to their aggressiveness toward unbelievers. Those who kill or are killed on behalf of Islam are more pleasing to Allah:

Not equal are those of the believers who sit at home... and those who strive hard and fight in the Cause of Allah with their wealth and lives" (4:95)



Conclusion

The pattern of violence and aggressive disregard for human suffering that is persistent in Muslim history and contemporary attitude toward non-believers reflects the message of the Quran, which is one of personal superiority and arrogance.

In today's world, Muslim dominance is characterized by the oppression and discrimination of non-Muslims, while Muslim minorities within larger societies are distinguished by varying degrees of petulant demand, discord and armed rebellion. Few Muslims are uncomfortable with this blatant double standard, in which Islam either plays the victim or unapologetically victimizes others, depending on its position of power - and the reason is obvious.

Islam is a supremacist ideology in which the role of non-believers is subordinate to the position of Muslims. Those who resist Islamic rule are to be fought until they are either killed or fully humiliated and forced to acknowledge their inferior status by converting to Islam or by paying a poll-tax and otherwise accepting the subjugation of their own religion.

There is simply no other religion on earth that draws such sharp distinction between its own members and others, or devotes as much time of its holist text toward condemning and dehumanizing those who merely choose not to follow its dogma.

So much about Islamic terrorism and the general indifference of the broader Muslim community toward the violence makes sense only against this dual nature of Islam - as does the strange willingness of Muhammad's followers to tolerate their own subjugation under Ottoman or Arab tyrants, such as Saddam Hussein, while being violently opposed to a Jewish neighbor state.

The apologists are correct in saying that Islam teaches love and kindness, but they fail to add that this applies only to the treatment of those within the Muslim community. Loyalty to one's own identity group is valued above all else and empathy for those outside the faith is optional at best - and even explicitly discouraged in places.

If this is a "misunderstanding" of Islam by modern-day "radicals," then it is an error that the founder of Islam made as well. In Muhammad's time, non-Muslims were put to death merely for speaking out against the new religion and its self-proclaimed prophet. Likewise, the Jews of Qurayza were summarily rounded-up and executed on Muhammad's order, even though they had not even fought in battle. Since the life of a non-Muslim is cheap, actual physical harm to a Muslim is not necessary to justify murder according to the example of Muhammad.

The Quran meets every criterion by which we define hate speech. Not only does the message inspire loathing and disregard for others, but the text mandates the superiority of Islam, even if the means of establishment is by violent force.

In his later years, Muhammad directed military campaigns to subjugate other tribes and religions, "inviting" them to Islam at the point of a sword and forcing them to pay tribute regardless. He set in motion the aggressive military campaigns that made war against all five major world religions in just the first few decades following his death.

Islam incorporates the ultimate devaluation of non-Muslims in the most obvious way by teaching that while a Muslim may be punished with death for murdering a fellow Muslim (Bukhari 83:17), no Muslim can be put to death for killing a non-Muslim (Bukhari 83:50, 3:111 - Muhammad: "No Muslim can be killed for killing a kafir."). The Quran’s "Law of Equality," which assigns human value and rights based on gender, religion and status, is the polar opposite of equality in the sense intended by Western liberal tradition, which ideally respects no such distinction.

One can always find apologists willing to dismiss the harsh rhetoric of the Quran with creative interpretation, tortuous explanation or outright denial, but their words and deeds almost always belie a concern for Islam's image that does not extend to Islam's victims - at least not with the same sense of urgency - thus proving the point.

Of course, there are also exceptional Muslims who do not agree with Islamic supremacy and sincerely champion secularism and respect for all people. Some even find verses or fragments of such to support their independent beliefs. But, for these people, the Quran as a whole will always be a constant challenge, since it explicitly teaches the distinct and inferior status of non-Muslims.
 

Carol Dreeszen (364)
Sunday February 17, 2013, 12:27 am
Now if that isn't living proof that the Koran is not what you say Abu then possibly you better re-read it over and over again until this part of it registers in your mind!! Thanks Patricia! Good info!
 

Ge M. (217)
Sunday February 17, 2013, 4:50 am
“If non-Muslims submit to conversion or subjugation, this call (da’wah) can be pursued peacefully. If they do not, Muslims are obliged to wage war against them. In Islam, peace requires that non-Muslims submit to the call of Islam, either by converting or by accepting the status of a religious minority (dhimmi) and paying the inmposed tax, jizya. World peace, the final stage of the da’wah is reached only with the conversion or submission of all mankind to Islam.” (Bassam Tibi)
 

Ge M. (217)
Sunday February 17, 2013, 4:59 am
From the Religion of Peace

The Quran contains at least 109 verses that call Muslims to war with nonbelievers for the sake of Islamic rule. Some are quite graphic, with commands to chop off heads and fingers and kill infidels wherever they may be hiding. Muslims who do not join the fight are called 'hypocrites' and warned that Allah will send them to Hell if they do not join the slaughter.

Unlike nearly all of the Old Testament verses of violence, the verses of violence in the Quran are mostly open-ended, meaning that they are not restrained by the historical context of the surrounding text. They are part of the eternal, unchanging word of Allah, and just as relevant or subjective as anything else in the Quran.

Most of today's Muslims exercise a personal choice to interpret their holy book's many calls to violence according to what their own moral preconceptions find justificable. Apologists cater to their preferences with tenuous arguments that gloss over historical fact and generally do not stand up to scrutiny. Still, it is important to note that the problem is not bad people, but bad ideology.

Unfortunately, there are very few verses of tolerance and peace to abrogate or even balance out the many that call for nonbelievers to be fought and subdued until they either accept humiliation, convert to Islam, or are killed. Muhammad's own martial legacy - and that of his companions - along with the remarkable stress on violence found in the Quran have produced a trail of blood and tears across world history.

Some quotes

Quran (2:191-193) - "And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution [of Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers]... but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah."

Quran (2:244) - "Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things."

Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not."

Quran (3:56) - "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."

Quran (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority".

Quran (4:74)
Quran (4:76)
Quran (4:89)
Quran (4:95)
Quran (4:104)
Quran (5:33)
Quran (8:12)
Quran (8:15)

I could continue but I think that the point is made. Abu, can you offer similar quotes remembering that Mohammed has said that later parts of the Koran supercede earlier parts?
 

Rob and Jay B. (120)
Sunday February 17, 2013, 5:03 am
Here's a video on Brennan where he praises Islam. The guy's a convert and yet seems to never have read the Qur'an, hadith or sirah or he would know what he is saying, like Abu, is false:
http://youtu.be/7VQbAhqHoAo

Abu, sadly it is you, like most Muslims, who know little to nothing about what Islam actually does teach. You say it isn't about hate?! Whoa! You have obviously never read the Qur'an & Sunnah, have you.

The verse you mention about not killing is always quoted out of context because the next verse says EXCEPT who is to be killed:

Qur'an 5:32-33
“For that cause We decreed for the Children of Israel that whosoever killeth a human being for other than manslaughter or corruption in the earth, it shall be as if he had killed all mankind, and whoso saveth the life of one, it shall be as if he had saved the life of all mankind. Our messengers came unto them of old with clear proofs (of Allah's Sovereignty), but afterwards lo! many of them became prodigals in the earth.

HERE'S THE NEXT VERSE WITH THE EXCEPTIONS:
“The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom.” QUR’AN 5:33'corruption in the land’ is also translated as 'mischief in the land' by Yusufali & Shakir. Pickthall uses 'corruption'. The "spread of mischief" is "non-Islamic behavior" and a "mischief maker" is anyone who does not "submit to and obey Allah and his Apostle." Authoritative Quranic commentator Ibn
Kathir intreprets this to mean 'criticism' or 'to engage in opposition' to Islam)

Surely you know that the Qur'an today isn't written in chronological order and surahs 5 & 9 were the last to be written (and much of it was lost during the Riddah Wars after Mohammed died when the Muslims were killing each other for power and also those who thought with Mohammed dead they could leave this religion they were forced to join. A lot of the Qur'an was memorized by different people and they were killed, so their part was lost forever. Allah didn't seem to think of this or to re-reveal the lost parts. Odd, no?)

The earlier nicer verses like 'no compulsion in religion' etc were all abrogated/cancelled by later more hateful ones once Mohammed moved to Median, became a warlord and bandit, once he finally recruited a band of thugs to follow him, and he began to force conversions by the sword and robbing caravans.

This verse, the Verse of the Sword, cancels out 113 previous less hateful verses:
“. . . slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush. . .” Q 9:5

"Instill terror in the hearts of the unbelievers". [Qur'an 8:12]

Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 327: - “Allah said, ‘A prophet must slaughter before collecting captives. A slaughtered enemy is driven from the land. Muhammad, you craved the desires of this world, its goods and the ransom captives would bring. But Allah desires killing them to manifest the religion.’”

Reliance of the Traveller, o9.0:
"Jihad means to war against non-Muslims."
The Reliance of the Traveller is Sunni Islam’s authoritative volume on Sharia law. It is endorsed by Alazhar University, Islam’s equivalent of the Vatican.

I heard the Apostle of Allah say: When you enter into the inah transaction (become businessmen), hold the tails of oxen (become cattlemen), are pleased with agriculture (become farmers), and give up conducting jihad, Allah will make disgrace prevail over you, and will not withdraw it until you return to your original religion. - Sunan Abu Dawud Book 23, Number 3455
Conducting jihad is the ‘original religion’ of Mohammed. Mohammed is the authority on Islam.

"O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends." Qur’an 5:51

Non-Muslims are "the most vile of created beings." Qur’an 98:6

There are 109 verses of hate toward non-Muslims in the Qur'an alone. There's no room here to show them all, nor the many in the hadith. It's time you read them for yourself, whether you are a current or ex Muslim. Islam DOES teach hate, it's the only religion that doesn't teach the Golden Rule, except for other Muslims:

"Muhammed is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves." Q48:29 This is NOT a god or religion of love.
 

Ge M. (217)
Sunday February 17, 2013, 5:06 am
As for CAIR, those who are interested in the truth try http://www.anti-cair-net.org/

CAIR is run by known terrorists and associates of terrorists. Obama must know this yet he associates with them as well as having 3 Wahabi Muslims as advisors (Wahabi is the version that Bin Laden followed). When a moderate Muslim, Dr Jasser, was offered a place by Obama's previous administration the Wahabi advisors did not want him so the offer was withdrawn. Why? What is wrong with a moderate?

Obama has meddled in the Middle East by giving the Muslim Brotherhood weapons and support to overthrow the dictators. Whatever they were, and they were unmentionable, the new governments are worse. Egypt is now an autocracy under Morsi and human rights have even less meaning than in Saudi and that's saying something!
 

Ge M. (217)
Sunday February 17, 2013, 5:15 am
"How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries!
Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property (either as a child, a wife, or a concubine) must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men. Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities. Thousands become the brave and loyal soldiers of the Queen; all know how to die; but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science (the science against which it had vainly struggled) the civilisation of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilisation of ancient Rome."

The River War, first edition, Vol. II by Winston Churchill - a great leader and he has been right all the way through
 

Carola May (20)
Sunday February 17, 2013, 5:48 am
Abu, you may be not be a hateful person, as many Muslims also are not, but Islam IS hateful if you would just read its texts and look at its history of death, destruction, persecution and oppression for 1400 years. It is estimated that 270 million people have been murdered by Islam's advance.

Will Durant, noted historian, said in "Story of Civilization": "The Mohammedan conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious thing whose delicate complex of order and liberty, culture and peace may at any time be overthrown by barbarians invading from without or multiplying from within." Over 80 million Indians were slaughtered for not converting to this religion of 'peace and tolerance' and Buddhism was virtually destroyed in its birthplace. Sounds pretty hateful to me!

"Lo! Those who disbelieve our revelations, we shall expose them to the fire. As often as their skins are consumed we shall exchange them for fresh skins that they may taste the torment (again). Lo! Allah is ever mighty, wise." Q4:56 Sounds pretty hateful to me!

"The Reliance of the Traveller"(Sharia Law) w59.2 says:
‘And this clarifies the Koranic verses and hadiths about hatred for the sake of Allah and love for the sake of Allah, being unyielding towards the unbelievers, hard against them, and detesting them [Qur’an 9:1], while accepting the destiny of Allah Most High insofar as it is the decree of Allah Mighty and Majestic’ (So hate non-Muslims but love that hate because Allah demands it! - Sounds pretty hateful to me)

"He (Allah) does not love the unbelievers." Qur’an 30:45 (So how can Muslims 'love' them if their god doesn't?)

Islam has never treated non-Muslims equally. Allah forbids it. No Muslim dominated land has freedom of religion, speech, conscience or press. Allah demands all religion be for him and 'People of the Book' must pay a heavy tax and be humiliated and accept their inferior status. It's all in Islam's scriptures if you would read them. They all sound pretty hateful to me and I've read them all. Just look at the life of violence, hate and cruelty of Mohammed himself in the Sunnah.
 

Rob and Jay B. (120)
Sunday February 17, 2013, 6:15 am
Abu, you must be kidding about wonderful Saudi Arabia, but if you are so brainwashed that you actually believe the fantasy you spouted here's something about how decadent it is (putting aside the fact that it has the 2nd highest divorce rate in the world, men can slake their lust on 4 'wives', they have 'pleasure marriages', which we call 'affairs' or prostitution, little girls can be 'married' and raped by filthy old pedophiles, just like Mohammed and Aisha, and there is zero freedom of religion, speech, conscience or press):

Here's about the high rate in Saudi of sexual abuse of children:

As girls in the Middle East are considered worth less than
boys, it may be that their incestuous use during childhood is even more
prevalent. One report found that four out of five Middle Eastern women
recalled having been forced into fellatio between the ages of 3 and 6 by older
brothers and other relatives.[Allen Edwardes and R.E.L. Masters - Cradle of Erotica (p. 300) - Bantam Paperback; New Ed edition (1977), ISBN 0553103016]

A female Arab physician who recently conducted an extensive study of childhood seduction reported that "most female children are exposed to … incidents of sexual assault" during their
early years by "the brother, the cousin, the paternal uncle, the
maternal uncle, the grandfather or even the father. If not a family member, he
may be the guardian or porter of the house, the teacher, the neighbor's son, or
any other man." [Nawal El Saadawi - The Hidden Face of Eve: Women in the Arab World (p. 14) - Boston: Beacon Press, 1980]

The molestation, she says, begins with masturbation or fellatio and then proceeds to intercourse. "In most cases the girl surrenders and is afraid to
complain to anyone, since, if there is any punishment to be meted out, it will
always end up by being inflicted on her. It is she alone who loses her honor
and virginity. The man never loses anything … " The incidents are
termed "frequent, but remain hidden, stored up in the secret recesses of
the female child's self, since she dare not tell anyone of what has happened to
her … "[Lloyd DeMause - The Universality Of Incest - The
Journal of Psychohistory, Fall 1991, Vol. 19, No. 2]
 

Carola May (20)
Sunday February 17, 2013, 6:34 am
BTW here's another closet Muslim Obama has nominated for his Defense Secty., Hegel, and this guy spoke to a meeting of the Muslim Brotherhood front group, CAIR, a convicted terrorist funding subversive group, and CAIR refuses to release the tape of what Hegel said in that speech! If it wasn't damning why would they fear releasing it???

http://freebeacon.com/arab-american-group-wont-release-hagel-tape/

And Abu, you say Islam isn't a threat to US freedoms? Well, here's what the agenda, captured in an FBI raid on their US headquarters, said about the Muslim Brotherhood's (an Orthodox Muslim group wanting to conquer the world under Sharia law) secret goals:

'The process of settlement is a "Civilization-Jihadist Process" with all the word means. The Ikhwan (brotherhood) must understand that their work in America is a kind of grand Jihad in eliminating and destroying the Western civilization from within and "sabotaging" its miserable house by their hands and the hands of the believers so that it is eliminated and God's religion is made victorious over all other religions. Without this level of understanding, we are not up to this challenge and have not prepared ourselves for Jihad yet. It is a Muslim's destiny to perform Jihad...'
http://www.investigativeproject.org/document/id/20
 

Rob and Jay B. (120)
Sunday February 17, 2013, 8:50 am
Hey, Abu, you praise Saudi Arabia and even claim it is a developed, advanced nation, even though to be an advanced nation they must respect human rights and civil rights and have freedom of religion, speech, conscience and press - NONE of these do the Saudis have. Here's one of the latest hate moves by them:

53 Ethiopian Christians are arrested for holding a quiet, private prayer service! Another one they bust!
http://www.bosnewslife.com/26490-news-alert-saudi-arabia-detains-53-ethiopian-christians

Here are a few more of their atrocities against non-Muslims:

Christians Working in Saudi Arabia Thrown in Prison, Beaten (http://www.aina.org/news/20110321210640.htm)

Saudi Security Forces Raid Christian Prayer Meeting in Jeddah and Arrest 42 Christians, Many Beaten and Threatened with Death (http://www.persecution.org/2011/12/17/42-ethiopian-christians-arrested-in-saudi-arabia/)

Hypocrisy: Saudi Gov’t Calling For ‘Interfaith Dialogue’ Caught Demonizing Jews And Christians
Yule Be Sorry: Virtuous Saudi Police Raid House, Arrest 41 People ‘Plotting To Celebrate Christmas’(http://rt.com/news/saudi-christmas-plot-crackdown-975/)

Saudis Export Anti-Christian and Anti-Jewish Textbooks that Continue to Fuel Intolerance and Violence Around the Globe (http://life.nationalpost.com/2011/09/28/saudis-export-anti-christian-and-anti-jewish-textbooks-across-the-world-report/? and http://midnightwatcher.wordpress.com/2011/12/22/fight-the-jews-and-kill-them-extremist-teachings-remain-in-saudi-textbooks-despite-kingdoms-claims-of-reform/ )

utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+NP_Top_Stories+%28National+Post+-+Top+Stories%29&utm_content=Google+Reader)

‘Fight The Jews And Kill Them’: Major American Publishers Protest Hate-Filled, Toxic Saudi Textbook Content (http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/330786/major-publishers-protest-saudi-textbook-content-nina-shea)

And these are only a few. And these bigoted racist Pure Muslims have the gall to build a 'religious tolerance center' in Europe when it is only Islam that they demand be tolerated and coddled, and they have zero freedom of religion, let alone any religious tolerance themselves. Let's see you twist everything to defend this.
 

Carol Dreeszen (364)
Sunday February 17, 2013, 11:16 am
'The process of settlement is a "Civilization-Jihadist Process" with all the word means. The Ikhwan (brotherhood) must understand that their work in America is a kind of grand Jihad in eliminating and destroying the Western civilization from within and "sabotaging" its miserable house by their hands and the hands of the believers so that it is eliminated and God's religion is made victorious over all other religions. Without this level of understanding, we are not up to this challenge and have not prepared ourselves for Jihad yet. It is a Muslim's destiny to perform Jihad...'
http://www.investigativeproject.org/document/id/20

Carola..Thanks so much for your input on this! This SHOULD wake up and scare every American..but we sure are not seeing it with liberals in this country..I guess they have to be put in handcuffs first before they realize anything is really wrong in this country!!

Thanks for your info too J and Gillian! There is so much out there that I know Abu does not know or understand and yet he wants to proclaim he knows it all just because he was a Muslim. I know several Muslims in Iraq that are very good people but when I have asked them about this stuff in the Koran they do not believe it!!! Which tells me they have also not read the Koran which tells me there are a lot of Muslims that have no clue about the Koran/Sharia Law or the evils of it.
 

Elaine Al Meqdad (228)
Sunday February 17, 2013, 3:18 pm
Noted dear Carol!
 

Carol Dreeszen (364)
Sunday February 17, 2013, 5:56 pm
Thanks Elaine!! ((HUGS))
 

Carol Dreeszen (364)
Sunday February 17, 2013, 7:44 pm
OK MM..you can take your liberal propaganda elsewhere if you can't say anything respectful without personal attacks! You're totally not interesting and what you add has no value at all!
 

Carol Dreeszen (364)
Sunday February 17, 2013, 10:02 pm
Here is another interesting article I just received on Muslims/Islam and the West...When one converts to Islam there is no choice as far as leaving out Sharia Law....if one thinks this so called religion eists without it they are asleep at the switch. This is something that (0) won't tell you though!!

Islamification of Western societies threatens everyone's freedoms

by: Geert Wilders
From: The Australian
February 18, 2013 12:00AM

THIRTY years ago, as a young man, I dreamed of Australia. I wanted to find myself a job there. Lack of sufficient funds decided otherwise and I ended up in Israel, working in a bakery in Jerusalem and on a farm near Jericho.

During the year that I lived in Israel, I travelled to Egypt. This trip made a huge impression on me. Israel and Egypt are neighbours, with the same climate, similar resources, the same potential. And yet Egypt is poor while Israel is wealthy. Even though at the time I was not interested in politics, I learned from this trip that the key to understanding the wealth of nations lies in their culture. If the latter promotes freedom, a nation will prosper.

In the 30 years since my first visit to Egypt, I have visited Indonesia, Turkey, Tunisia, Syria, Iraq, Iran and Afghanistan. I left Iran in a hurry once, fearing for my life, because, in a speech at a Tehran school for diplomats and military cadets, I had criticised the regime and spoke in defence of Israel. They had told me that I was allowed to speak freely, but it was naive to believe them.

In the Islamic world, I was always struck by two things. I was impressed by the kindness and helpfulness of many people. But there was also their fear. Islamic societies are ruled by terror. Muslims are good people, but they live under the yoke of Islamic sharia. If they leave Islam, or even just mildly criticise it, they sign their own death verdict.

I returned to The Netherlands and became a politician. I used to live in the Kanaleneiland district of Utrecht. During my years there, the district was transformed into a dangerous neighbourhood for non-Muslims. I have been robbed. On several occasions I had to run for safety. The same transformation happened in several cities in The Netherlands and other European countries where Islam settled. Europe is going through an Islamification process, which makes our continent less free and less safe.

Contrary to what many Westerners think, Islam, rather than a religion, is a totalitarian political ideology. It is an ideology because it aims for an Islamic state and wants to impose sharia on all of us. It is totalitarian because it is not voluntary: once you are in, you cannot get out. Unlike genuine religions, Islam also makes demands on non-Muslims. We, too, are marked for death if we criticise it.

For nine years I have been living under constant police protection. I live in a government safe house. I am driven every day to my office in an armoured police car. I have even lived in army barracks and prison cells just to be safe from assassins. I am threatened because I am a a critic of Islam.

I always make a distinction between Muslims and Islam, between the people and the ideology. Most Muslims are moderate, but this does not mean there is such a thing as a moderate Islam. People who reject Islam's violent and intolerant commandments are not practising "moderate Islam" -- they are not practising Islam at all.

That is the truth. And it needs to be said because freedom of speech is the only tool we have. We stand for our convictions, but we never use violence. We abhor violence. The reason we reject Islam is Islam's violent nature. Our commitment to human dignity does not allow us to use violence nor to give in to cynicism and despair. As the ex-Muslim and Islam critic Ali Sina says: "We don't raise a sword against darkness; we lit a light." So it is. We lit the light of the truth. The truth that while Muslims can embrace freedom, Islam cannot.

In the normal order of things, immigration from Islamic countries weakens Islam. People prefer freedom over tyranny. Contact with Western freedoms would lead Muslims to abandon Islam. However, through the creation of a sharia-based parallel society in the West, Islam manages to continue its control over its captives.

This week, I will be speaking in Melbourne, Perth and Sydney. Politicians say I am not welcome, universities do not want to grant me access. They say I am an extremist. However, I am not. I am the leader of the third-largest party in The Netherlands, a country known for its tradition of tolerance. I have spoken earlier in the premises of the US congress, the British House of Lords, the Israeli Knesset, the Danish parliament, and at numerous conferences, where I met like-minded democratically elected politicians, none of whom belong to the far Right.

Freedom is the key to prosperity and Islam deprives people of it. Let us support Muslims who want to free themselves from the yoke of Islam. Let us stand for our own freedoms. We owe it to the past generations always to speak the truth and not to squander our liberties. And we owe it to the future generations not to sign away their freedom.

Geert Wilders is a Dutch MP and leader of the Party for Freedom.He will talk in Melbourne tomorrow, Perth on Wednesday and Sydney on Friday. www.qevent.org.
 

Rob and Jay B. (120)
Monday February 18, 2013, 6:05 am
Carol D, (0)/MM/Margaret Mayer is NOT a Liberal or Progressive, if she were she wouldn't always defend the hate teachings and practices of Islam, but, instead, she would be on the side of the many victims of this cult of death and hate. She shows no compassion for the ethnic cleansing of Christians, Buddhists and all non-Muslims in virtually every Muslim occupied land from northern Nigeria to 'moderate' Indonesia (where over 300 Christian churches and untold numbers of Buddhist temples have been closed or destroyed), the over 2000 gay people who have been slowly strangled to death in the Islamic paradise of Iran, or the torture, persecution, imprisonment and lynching of gays in her beloved Hamas Islamist dictatorship in Gaza, o, the total lack of any freedoms in the land of pure Islam, Saudi Arabia, or for the women who are treated like 'domestic animals' (Mohammed's own words) in Islam and brainwashed into wearing those ugly veils and tents, or the little girls who are forced to 'marry' filthy old pedophiles who rape them, just like good, noble Mohammed did, or the slaves still being stolen and used (many as sex slaves) in Muslim countries as slavery/sex slavery has always been condoned by Islam, or the lack of religious freedom in any Muslim ruled land, as Allah forbids it, and so much more from this 'religion of peace and tolerance'.

She's a total fraud. We are democratic Socialists/Leftists and ardently oppose the Islamic ideology because it is anathema to everything we believe in - human rights and equal rights for all people. The OIC (Org. of Islamic Conference- the 57 Muslim majority/ruled countries) rejects the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights and have their own Cairo Declaration which is based on Sharia law because Islam opposes equal rights for women, children, non-Muslims, gay people, and it opposes freedom of speech, religion, conscience and press. Any REAL Liberal/Leftist would be a loud opponent of any ideology that opposed these values.
 

Rob and Jay B. (120)
Monday February 18, 2013, 7:21 am
Just found this new article exposing Brennan's sinister ties with Muslim Brotherhood front terror groups in the US and his enabling some of their dirty leaders to become 'advisers' to the Obama White House, Homeland Sec. and other governmental departments. And this guy Obama wants to run the CIA which is supposed to protect the US from its enemies, and he is in bed with them?????????????????????? This would be tantamount to Roosevelt appointing a Nazi convert to head his intelligence or defense departments in the 1930s!!! Incredible. (http://understandingthethreat.wordpress.com/2013/02/13/media-unable-to-discern-fact-from-fiction-regarding-john-brennan/ )

Can the US and West survive 4 more years of the Islamist takeover of the US under the guidance and enthusiastic help of Obama along with these Islamist promoters like Brennan and Hegel??? Where is the media? Why are the media and almost all leaders asleep at the wheel as these hate mongers and sworn enemies of all we hold dear are being wheeled right into the government itself in their Trojan Horse? How much more do they need to know before they see the infiltration of our sworn enemy throughout the centers of power from the White House, Universities, schools, the media etc etc. This takeover is happening before our very eyes and no one is doing a thing about it. And if someone does dare, like Churchill, to expose these enemies and their actions and hate speech, they are shouted down and called 'racists' and 'islamophobes' , just like Churchill was shouted down by the same people/groups when he was a lone voice warning of the dangers of the Nazis and Hitler. Scary.
 

Carol Dreeszen (364)
Monday February 18, 2013, 11:02 am
Thanks Carol K!! I will say Geert Wilders sure has the guts to fight this terrible ideology!! There is no one who will fight it more strongly than one who has gone through the threats of it!

Thanks J..I agree with you that Marg M is everything you said! She only seems to know a hit and run tactic that has nothing to do with a topic but attack the messenger! This is awesome information and I can't understand why some people are so ignorant they can not see what Obama is doing to this country!! It is traitorism to not open their eyes to the devistation he is doing by electing all of his Muslim buddies in positions of strategic positions in our government. It could not be made any clearer to a normal smart human being to see this! But alas....there are so many ignorant people in this country it is a catastrophy!!! Thanks a million for your input!!
 

Carol Dreeszen (364)
Monday February 18, 2013, 4:38 pm
Only one with your intelligence MM would find something like that with humor in it......that tells a lot of your mentality as in screwed up!!!
 

Lee Hampton (15)
Monday February 18, 2013, 4:52 pm
So what race is Islam again?
 

Carol Dreeszen (364)
Monday February 18, 2013, 5:31 pm
Lee..Islam is an "ideology!" MUSLIM extremists tend to use the Sharia Law part of it whenever ;possible which is all the time...I think you know all of this though...correct!?

MM..I would not be accepting the intelligence part as a compliment if I were you...there you go again...not being able to comprehend what someone is saying..you DO have a problem with that ..don't you!!
 

Lee Hampton (15)
Monday February 18, 2013, 5:44 pm
"Since you all seem to interchange Muslim, Arabs, etc. it seems pretty funny that you are going to be picky now."

We don't conflate the two, being well-aware that there are a rapidly diminishing rate of Arab Christians thanks to Arab Muslims. The vast majority of Arabs are Muslim, and Islam is an ideology comprised of virtually every race on earth.

Seems pretty funny, hmmm? You must find watching funerals full of laughs, too. Strange sense of mirthless, vapid, caustic humor you have.

 

Lee Hampton (15)
Monday February 18, 2013, 6:48 pm
Zero,

You seem to have a penchant for putting words into people's mouths. I do not demonize an "whole population based on their expression of faith." I have Muslim friends and, even better, ex-Muslim friends.

My difficulty lies not with religious formalities, like washing before prayer, abstaining from marital relations during menses, refraining from pork, prostrating themselves on the floor, modest dress, etc. I think these are absolutely valid and fine.

My issue with "Islam" is its supremacist, totalitarian, hate-all-non-Muslims, etc., nature. For instance, the Muslim Brotherhood and the Shia in Iran have stated that they intend to kill every Jew, and that this conforms with their belief in the Mahdi.

You have said that you are Jewish, Margaret. They don't care if their targets are religious Jews or liberal Jews or useful idiot Jews, like you. They want to kill every last Jew. It's part of their faith. Is that okay, Margaret?

Have you thought about how you'd like to be murdered? Maybe beheading suits you? Shot? Fire bombed in your home? Of course, first they would likely do you the pleasure of torturing and raping you and your children, the lovely Islamists.

Or are you more the "capo" type, doing the Nazis, oops I mean the Muslim's bidding, like you do so well, and maybe you think you could convert to Islam. That wouldn't be difficult to imagine at all.
 

Carol Dreeszen (364)
Monday February 18, 2013, 10:49 pm
"CHRISTIAN extremists tend to manipulate the bible, part of it whenever possible which is all the time...I think you know all this though....correct?"

How would you know any of that MM seeing as how it shows you don't go near a Bible with a 10 foot pole!! You seem to say a lot about a lot of things you have no clue about but try and come across as all knowing!!! NOT!!!!

Thanks Lee for your informative input!
 

Carol Dreeszen (364)
Tuesday February 19, 2013, 6:50 am
First of all Lee, the words weren't for you to begin with, you jumped in. Secondly do I think that Islamic run governments are a good thing? Absolutely not.

MM..Lee has every right to "jump in" as you call it just like YOU did on this topic and for you saying above what you just did here you are being very hypocritical because this is exactly the reason WHY I posted this topic!!! Obama has an agenda..he is a Muslim who believes everything the Muslim Brotherhood is doing..he is bringing this so called religion that YOU call it INTO the White House which I am totally AGAINST...just as you said you are above here...and yet you turn around and call me a racist and a bigot and all the other hogwash!? What a hypocrite...you can want the same thing I do but that's alright..but if I want the same thing then you have nasty words for me because of it.....unbelievable!!!! You make NO sense at all!! And further more..no other President has pushed ANY KIND of religious affiliation on this nation except Obama!!! And I will take my Christian principles any day over your non existent principles!!
 

Rob and Jay B. (120)
Tuesday February 19, 2013, 7:27 am
Zero/MM/Margaret M You are really pathetic! You have the gall to tell us that we are bigots???!!! That we should grant rights to others that we have??? Well, once we actually get those rights we'll see. And Islam is the most hateful, anti-gay ideology on earth. You nagging hypocrite - you are quick to spout hate against Christians, Israel and Conservatives (baggers you hatefully call them). Why is Islam exempt from all criticism?

You must have some real mental problems. How many times do we have to tell you -PLEASE PAY ATTENTION FOR ONCE! - we are against an ideology of hate, that commands the killing of gay people (sorry if we're a bit sensitive about that and that you couldn't give a shit), non-Muslims, those who criticize or leave it (are you really going to defend this crap???) and rape victims. Whose bloody side are you on. By defending this sick fascistic hate cult you show your true colors. We do not oppose individual Muslims, some of whom are very brutalized by this awful religion and you should be concerned about them. We are.

You don't give a damn about the women who are oppressed in this ideology of sexual obsession, or the little kids who are married of to dirty old pedophiles, or the gay people who slowly strangled, or the non-Muslims who have been oppressed, persecuted, taxed, murdered, driven out and treated as inferior since Mohammed did it. Whose side are you on? The victims or this cult of hate and death. By defending it, you promote it.
 

Carola May (20)
Tuesday February 19, 2013, 7:52 am
Everyone, just ignore (0)/MM. She has always been impermeable to logic, always twists things and always takes the side of Islam and its most hateful minions. I've never seen a comment from her yet that condemns the hate verses in Islam against everyone, or the Islamists and Mullahs who are so brutal, intolerant and bigoted and preach so much hate and evil. She only condemns those who condemn them and their hate.

You can't reason with her, so you might as well ignore her. That's the best thing. Same with the BS artist Abu who won't even tell the truth about who he really is.

Abu for an ex-Muslim atheist (yeah, right) you sure are passionate to the point of telling lies in defense of this religion you supposedly have renounced. You quote verses and give the Islamic apologist Taqiyya about "Oh those hateful verses were for only one time"(they're still hate verses). You know very well they weren't. They don't say that, and you know that every word in the Qur'an was supposedly written by Allah before the world was created, and every word is true then, now and for all time. Not one word can be changed or renounced, no matter how absurd, stupid or evil and contradictory. You're forgetting the people Mohammed had slaughtered for rejecting him (well, he wanted to steal their property too) and for leaving Islam. You forget all those who, once Mohammed died (fat and rich), that they could renounce Islam and go back to their true faiths but were forced by the sword to stay in this religion of peace and tolerance. The Riddah Wars - remember? (0) will surely call those Islamic defectors 'racists', 'islamophobes' and 'haters' while ignoring the fact they were forced into Islam by the sword. You two ought to get together.

Your bizarre deity kept changing his mind with deadly consequences for all of us slaves he created just so he could get his ego stroked by our constant grovelling in praise and worship of him. It's called abrogation and means that early verses were cancelled by later more hateful ones. The Verse of Sword you have quoted (Q9:5) abrogates 113 previous verses and is NOT just for one evening when Mohammed was really really mad at those pesky Jews, Christians and Arab Pagans whose religion he denigrated and trampled on (though he did keep much of their rituals like the hajj, Ramadan, the Ka'aba, in honour of the Moon God Allah, whose name Mohammed agreed to keep for his new god, after using 3 other ones in the beginning, and his symbol the crescent moon and star, symbol of his wife, seen on every mosque today).

You Islamists can fool (0) and most of the westerners who are naive enough to think that all religion teaches the Golden Rule, nonviolence, love etc, without knowing that Islam teaches none of those things. Well, there are some of us who have studied Islam, read your texts and know what you're up to. We will not be silent while you spew lies. Tell them to (0), she hates all the same people you and Islam do.
 

Carol Dreeszen (364)
Tuesday February 19, 2013, 10:28 am
Thanks J and Carola!!!! It's so refreshing to see words that are sane and informative rather than non sensical..hypocritical BS!!
 

Sandra S. (8)
Tuesday February 19, 2013, 3:29 pm
Honestly, I so badly want to SLAP people who call those that speak truthfully about Islam 'bigots'. This is the equivalent of calling those who speak out against white supremacists 'bigots'. Bloody morons.

As for Abu Ali, your circular arguments & manner of communicating tells me that you are STILL Muslim. I've also lived in an Islamic country, as you claim you have. I've also got many Muslim family members & am married to an ex-Muslim. I AM ALSO EX-MUSLIM MYSELF. Save your dancing around in circles like a spaztic cult member. If you've left Islam as you claim, you most definitely have not yet excised the diseased cultic brain tissue resulting from being a Muhammadian molester. I suggest some serious PTSD & Stockholm Syndrome counselling. I also suggest you sit down & read the Quran from cover to cover, research the shite that Islamic scholars are spewing out into the public domain & take a long, hard look at your cultic belief system floating around in your little head. And lastly, STOP BLATANTLY LYING ABOUT THE TEACHINGS OF ISLAM. Your pedophilic fake 'prophet' would himself give you a good slapping for bastardizing his teachings.

 

Lee Hampton (15)
Tuesday February 19, 2013, 5:06 pm
Someone made this observation about MM/(0), and I find it quite apt...

Some people in life are given a lemon, yet they find a way to make it into lemonaide.

Margaret was given a lemon, and to it she added vinegar.

Undoubtedly one of the most sour, snarky, presumptuous, arrogant people to have ever plopped her ugly opinions down on the pages of Care2.
 

Carol Dreeszen (364)
Tuesday February 19, 2013, 5:10 pm
MM..Why don't you stick to your Canadian politics and your thoughts to yourself and leave everyone else's alone. What you think about what any of us say or think matters not! You put yourself up on a pedestal like you have the right to tell others what they say or think is racist or bigotry or anything else for that matter and you are nothing but a pure hypocrite who don't even have the guts to use your real name on an avatar! (0) WOW!! Does that say something about your level of mentality or what!? You can change your avatar name to whatever you want....your style or maybe I should say lack of...gives you away totally!! You are really pathetic!!
 

Carol Dreeszen (364)
Tuesday February 19, 2013, 5:14 pm
Agree Lee!!! Totally! Could not have said it any better myslef!
 

Lee Hampton (15)
Tuesday February 19, 2013, 6:01 pm
The honor is all mine....

Thanks for posting, Carol. Although the mainline media wouldn't touch this issue, since their lives depend on it, I'm grateful that you found this and shared it. More people should know the deep, deep doggie-doody we're in for.
 

Carol Dreeszen (364)
Tuesday February 19, 2013, 6:04 pm
Thanks Lee!! Much appreciated! I see (0) MM Margaret Mayer is now using her other ID of Free G (Gaza) Busy woman!!
 

patrica and edw jones (190)
Tuesday February 19, 2013, 6:53 pm
Abu Ali - do you listen to the news or read the newspapers? Obviously not or you would not be trotting out such naive drivel. There is only one agenda that Islam has - and that is World domination. The murder and mayhem that we hear about on a daily basis would be 99% due to Islam fanatics and the 1% 'moderates' do not dare to speak out against these horrors. So don't obfuscate the issue Abu. Go get an education.
 

Carol Dreeszen (364)
Tuesday February 19, 2013, 7:40 pm
ROTFLMAO!!! Oh My Gosh!!!That was hilarious!!!!
 

Lee Hampton (15)
Tuesday February 19, 2013, 7:59 pm
"Lee, how dare you call the tea party doggie-doody."

Margaret, don't give up your day job. Humor and you are like water and snake oil.

Pat and Carol: good comments!
 

Lee Hampton (15)
Tuesday February 19, 2013, 8:02 pm
Ah, the voice throwers are here, putting words into other peoples' mouths.
 

Nyack Clancy (435)
Tuesday February 19, 2013, 8:03 pm
The Founding Fathers would be so proud that the Tea Party would take their words in the United States Constitution and hide them under a pile of Doggie Doody the size of Mount Rushmore.
 

Nyack Clancy (435)
Tuesday February 19, 2013, 8:09 pm
" putting words into other peoples' mouths." ??????? Its ALL pretty anti-Muslim here in a country that is suppose to stand for Freedom of Religion.
 

Lee Hampton (15)
Tuesday February 19, 2013, 8:15 pm
Sounds like we have a pair of comedians here (who may starve if this is their only talent).

The Founding Fathers had their hands full of Ottoman Empire and Barbary Pirate thugs, who routinely boarded U.S. Merchant Marine ships, enslaved and/or butchered the (white) sailors, stole the goods to be traded and the U.S. ships, too.

So while the Europeans paid off the Ottomans and the Barbary Pirates - note the etiology of the term, barbarians - the U.S. ultimately decided to stop paying ransom, and this decision lead to the birth of the U.S. Navy.

The Tea Party would be very proud, indeed.
 

Lee Hampton (15)
Tuesday February 19, 2013, 8:35 pm
If I seem an insufferable ass to you, Margaret, it is largely because I have your far more expert example to follow.

As a U.S. citizen, Carol is rightly exercising her freedom of speech, and I appreciate that she has the conviction to do so despite the fact that doing so brings the bottom feeders.
 

Lee Hampton (15)
Tuesday February 19, 2013, 8:50 pm
Nyack,insofar as Freedom of Religion and Freedom of Speech go, these are inherently incompatible with Islam. Remember, we personally and philosophically know that just because someone is a Muslim, he or she does not necessarily believe in or embody the manifold evil traits that Islam teaches. So Islam, the ideology, and Muslims, the people are not necessarily one and the same.

In other words, unlike many antisemites who hate Jews regardless of whether the Jews are religious, agnostic, atheists, eat pork, Socialists, anti-Israel, pro-Israel, rich, poor, middle class, it doesn't matter, their hatred rides on something deeply irrational and unmovable.

We, like many others who have studied Islam and its history and interaction with the Muslim and non-Muslim world can identify those things that we are strongly opposed to, but do not necessarily hate individual Muslims, unless they embody and advance the most hateful aspects of Islam.

Islam = anti-Freedom of Religion. For those who choose to leave Islam, Sharia demands the death penalty.

Islam = anti-Freedom of Speech. You are not allowed to talk about Islam’s inherent hatred, violence, tawdry sexual proclivities and deeds of its founder. Doing so is another invitation to have your head removed.

Islam = anti-democracy, anti-human rights, anti-liberal, anti-rational

Do you understand this distinction?
 

Lee Hampton (15)
Tuesday February 19, 2013, 8:57 pm
Well, it's been...... something....

Heading to bed.
 

Carol Dreeszen (364)
Wednesday February 20, 2013, 6:14 pm
As a U.S. citizen, Carol is rightly exercising her freedom of speech, and I appreciate that she has the conviction to do so despite the fact that doing so brings the bottom feeders.

When truth is spoken Lee that tends to bring this kind up from the bottom! They will never change! One thing for sure is they are not worth wasting time over with their incoherent drivel...but they are predictable because they never change!!! Thanks for your vote of confidence!
 

Lee Hampton (15)
Thursday February 21, 2013, 11:43 am
Carol, it is my pleasure. We may not share all the same political opinions, but I respect very much that you bravely come to the gates of your enemies to proclaim your convictions.

There is A LOT about this administration that needs to put under the magnifying glass and examined closely, and too few are willing to get that desperately needed job done.

 

Nyack Clancy (435)
Thursday February 21, 2013, 11:47 am
"They"... "Them"... "Those people"...

US and THEM

Nice community you build Carol! Makes me think I may want to consider living in Egypt before Alaska!
 

Carol Dreeszen (364)
Thursday February 21, 2013, 1:17 pm
Nyack..You are welcome to go where ever you want..as a matter of fact quite possibly if we ever met face to face we could have one hell of a time! You just never know!! I guess probably you might say those are the opposite of racist..bigot..idiots and etc; Do you see the difference in the quality of the words used!? One is used by liberals and the other is used by Conservatives. Oh..and I don't build communities..you ever hear of the old saying "you are what you eat" or "one will attract people of like mind!?" OR..how about"great minds think alike!?" I like that one myself! That is kind of the way I look at it!
 

Carol Dreeszen (364)
Thursday February 21, 2013, 1:20 pm
Nyack..You are welcome to go where ever you want..as a matter of fact quite possibly if we ever met face to face we could have one hell of a time! You just never know!! I guess probably you might say those are the opposite of racist..bigot..idiots and etc; Do you see the difference in the quality of the words used!? One is used by liberals and the other is used by Conservatives. Oh..and I don't build communities..you ever hear of the old saying "you are what you eat" or "one will attract people of like mind!?" OR..how about"great minds think alike!?" I like that one myself! That is kind of the way I look at it!
 

Carol Dreeszen (364)
Thursday February 21, 2013, 1:22 pm
Sorry Lee..Wish I could send you a truckload more of green stars but I guess I will; have to wait!! In the mean time thanks a million for your informative posts!!

Dang! It posted twice again!
 

Kevin A. (68)
Thursday February 21, 2013, 6:38 pm
Whatever anyone's religion may be, once any indication that a person in government even attempts to impose his or her religion or religious beliefs on others they should automatically be removed from office regardless of whether that government position was obtained by appointment or election.

Too many people have died throughout history due to religiously motivated (or excused) violence. I certainly do not want to see a religious zealot in any government post. Remember that even Hitler was proud to say he was a good Roman Catholic.

I am dismayed with the extremism I am reading here. While I am in favor of gun ownership, I do not share the tenets of the extreme right. Nor do I share the tenets of the extreme left. Don’t tell me you want to keep Muslims out if you would put a Tea Party zealot in.

I am currently watching reasonable, responsible statutes around the US getting attacked in the name of pseudo Christianity. These alleged Christians are trying to impose the same kind of controls on women that currently exist in Islamic states.

As I said earlier there is no place for religions in our government as they are by design suppressive and controlling. One thing I would change in the relationship between government and churches (of all faiths) is that the churches should be taxed by our government.



 

Carol Dreeszen (364)
Thursday February 21, 2013, 9:17 pm
Kevin....First off can you tell me what it is that you consider extreme right and left!?

I agree with you that anyone who pushes a specific religion in the government should be kicked out pronto!! So far we have not seen that happen in this administration with the pushing of the Muslim/Islam agenda and it seems to be getting stronger and more intense every day.

Yes I remember that Hitler was a Catholic........a very bad one at that! IMO he was far from being the true Catholic..he was a maniac, a crazy person. So he may claim to have been a good Catholic but he was the worst!

What do you consider the tenets of the extreme right on gun control that you do not agree with!? And what do you have against the Tea Party!? Tea Party candidates and the Muslims are totally opposite of each other. Obama is the one putting Muslims in all over the place and claiming Muslim Holidays while taking the National Day of Prayer out of this Christian nation. We are not a Muslim nation!

How can you say that Christians are putting the same controls on women that exist in the Islamic state!? I disagree with you on that one totally! But I would like to hear what your reasons are!

The main purpose is to keep the government OUT out religion NOT religion out of the government and by that it means simply that religion can be used by the members of Congress in order to guide them in their decisions and etc; No one in the government has the authority to impose on anyone or dictate to another what kind of religion they will believe in...except for the Muslim Brotherhood who dictate and try and tell anyone and everyone that they either join Islam or die. These are the kind of men and women that Obama has put in high places in our government! And Islam is not even a religion..it's an ideology.


What is An Ideology?
An ideology is the belief system of a certain person or group of people. The beliefs might be right or wrong depending on the perspective of the person looking. For example, communism is an ideology.
http://answers.ask.com/Society/Philosophy/what_is_an_id...

What is Ideology?
Ideology is basically the way someone thinks and believes which drives their goals, and actions and even their expectations of life and of others.
http://answers.ask.com/Science/Philosophy/what_is_ideol...
 

Diane O. (149)
Friday February 22, 2013, 2:57 am
In America over 80% of Americans openly identify themselves as Christians. We are, in fact, a Christian nation. There are different churches who worship in different ways hence the many denominations of Christianty in our country. What separates religion in America from the Koran teachings is that the Bible doesn't tell us that those who don't believe the way we do should be killed. The Koran teaches that the infidels must die and the highest honor is to sacrifice one's self (with a bomb) while killing innocent people so that they can go and meet their virgins in heaven. Now, liberals, think about that. We don't need that type of extreme religion in our country just like we will never recognize and accept Sharia Law. Muslims need to stay in their own countries and out of the US if they believe they can bring those extreme beliefs to America and not face prison sentences.

Government needs to get out of our personal lives....period. They have no business in our bedrooms, family life raising our children, in our children's schools, in our medical files and following our comments on the internet. They have no business labeling each and every one of us.

Even Michelle Obama, not a registered dietician, stands before us and changes the school menus. What gives her the right to do this? She has control of her own family not ours. It's no wonder that the American people have pushed back on this and have complained about the school menus changing to accomodate her self worth as she tries to build her own legacy.
 

Beth S. (326)
Friday February 22, 2013, 11:46 am
On Hitler and Christianity..... (do you really think Hitler would worship a Jewish savior?)

We are the joyous Hitler youth,
We do not need any Christian virtue
Our leader is our savior
The Pope and Rabbi shall be gone
We want to be pagans once again.”

- Song sung by Hitler youth

“The Ten Commandments have lost their validity. Conscience is a Jewish invention, it is a blemish like circumcision.”

- Rauschning, Hitler Speaks, p. 220

"You see, it's been our misfortune to have the wrong religion. Why didn't we have the religion of the Japanese, who regard sacrifice for the Fatherland as the highest good? The Mohammedan religion too would have been much more compatible to us than Christianity. Why did it have to be Christianity with its meekness and flabbiness...."

Quoted from Albert Speer's memoirs

Nazism and the Churches Hitler despised Christianity as “weak” and “flabby.” He sought to replace religion with his racial creed. In an attempt to control the churches, the Nazis combined all Protestant sects into a single state church. They closed Catholic schools and muzzled the Catholic clergy.

http://www.pnow.org/wcivhw761.htm
 

Carol Dreeszen (364)
Friday February 22, 2013, 11:57 am
Beth Thanks!! This is very informative! Fits right in with Hitler too..he was another huge hypocrite!! Murderer, liar. narcissist, traitor and the list goes on!
 

Carol Dreeszen (364)
Friday February 22, 2013, 12:00 pm
Diane..Agree 100%!!
 

Diane O. (149)
Friday February 22, 2013, 3:35 pm
We are a Christian nation pure and simple. Anyone who feels that they can change this in America is a loon. It will never happen. What we have in our country is the freedom to worship as we choose. yes, we have a very small percentage of atheists and that's okay that has never bothered me. I believe in freedom of religion to worship as we choose and I believe in our freedom of speech. I never step out here expecting everyone to agree with me. After all, I am an American. But when we have radical Muslims who enter our country and want to bring Sharia Law with them....they need to understand that in our country that dog won't hunt. The question is..."why would Muslims come to America bringing Sharia Law with them? Why don't they stay where they are....in their own country where they can practice Sharia Law? Who chased them out? Why did they leave? They shouldn't make their issues "our" issues. Don't like America? Stay the hell out of America and remain in our own country.
 

Carol Dreeszen (364)
Friday February 22, 2013, 5:25 pm
I know you meant "Your own country" Diane and i agree 100%...the fact is the reason they come here is to try to indoctrinate us with Islam..they want to take over America and all we have to do to see WHY they keep coming is to look at the Muslim in the White House! Any President who would intentionally take out a Nation Day of Prayer for this country and instill a Muslim Holiday is NOT American and is pandering to the Muslims and Islam!! Then we can look at all of the Muslims he has put in high spots of control in the US who are Muslims and that is an added red flag!! Something is going to give!! And it's not going to be the American patriots!!!
 

John T. (7)
Friday February 22, 2013, 8:24 pm
All this based on a Tucker Carlson article? Tucker can't tell the truth. $ pair of Spanx couldn't contain the facts he stretches.
Fortunately, the only 3 people in Congress that listen to Tucker at all don't count.
 

Carol Dreeszen (364)
Friday February 22, 2013, 11:28 pm
John..Please go and check out any number of articles from different sources before you put all your eggs in one basket to believe someone you do not trust!! The information is out there from just about any news source you want to believe because it's getting to the point even the liberal sites HAVE TO tell the truth when they KNOW by not doing so it will make them REALLY look like COMPLETE idiots instead of just partial ones! Have a great evening/day!!
 

Karen Bennick (139)
Saturday February 23, 2013, 12:20 am
McCartheism?????
 

Carol Dreeszen (364)
Saturday February 23, 2013, 12:39 am
Karen..Could you please explain more of what you mean? Thanks!
 

Diane O. (149)
Saturday February 23, 2013, 3:47 am
Thanks for picking up on my typo, Carol. When immigrants come to America they need to remember why they were drawn to America in the first place. They aren't going to change America. We have our Consitution and the republicans are working very hard to get rid of those who constantly want to circumvent it. We have our work cut out for us!
 

Fadi M. (37)
Saturday February 23, 2013, 4:24 am
I have always said this and will continue to say it:

Zionists & Islamists are enemies in public and allies behind closed doors.

I wish more people begin to understand this.
 

federico bortoletto (34)
Saturday February 23, 2013, 1:00 pm
Notato Carol.
 

Carol Dreeszen (364)
Saturday February 23, 2013, 1:12 pm
Fadi..On your profile page you say you wish Religions would vanish....IMO I wish Ideology's would vanish or at the very least those who try and force it onto others! The ideology of Islam is the worst destructive thought process there is in this world today say nothing of the physical destruction!

Thanks Frederico!!
 

Fadi M. (37)
Tuesday March 19, 2013, 2:53 pm
I do agree with you Carol, however, in my opinion there are many reasons as to why religions are far worse than ideologies.
It looks like Abu Ali has vanished though after this marathonian debate and the rain of evidence you showered him with :) It's really a shame for someone to pretend having left Islam, yet preach Islam to others. When I first posted my comment I didn't have time to go through other posts, but now I had a look and was shocked to see how someone could waste other people's time on something they pretend to be irrelevant to them. I mean imagine I tell you I'm not an evolutionist yet I make 20 stupidly long posts praising Darwin and his theories!!
I was hoping one of you would ask Abu Ali one question; "why did you leave Islam?" It would've put him in the right place where he belongs. But anyway, you all did a great job, and I'm always happy to see more people taking the responsibility of informing themselves on the subject.
 

Carol Dreeszen (364)
Tuesday March 19, 2013, 9:46 pm
Fadi..Thanks! Can you explain why you think that please!? IMO it's not the Religions that are bad but some of the people who are in the Religion. Yes there are bad things that happened in Religions but as a rule the Religion by itself is not bad. When a crazy kook goes off on a tangent claiming his Religion or whatever prompted him to do something it's not the Religions fault...it's the crazy person who took it on himself or herself to decide this was what they were told to do by some devine spirit of some kind or other. Crazy people show up in many different things in life.

As far as Abu is concerned I think Abu was a fake..you know how some people don't have the guts to be themselves and feel they have to be an actor at times in order to try and hide themselves!? I hear what you are saying on the proclamations too! Actions always speak louder than words for me! :-)
 

Fadi M. (37)
Saturday June 8, 2013, 2:47 pm
Carol, please forgive me for my late reply due to being busy with some work related issues, however, I'm back now but won't be able to spend much time on C2 like I used to, so I'll try to be brief and to the point.

Ideology vs. Religion:

Dies when better or more useful ideas surface Does not die since it takes a supernatural dimension.

Can be reasoned, debated, and investigated Cannot...

It usually disappears with the loss of power (state or civilization), through education/science, and increased awareness Continues to live in the mind of a believer since the source of its power is omnipotent.

Keeps the power in the hands of people (people believe they must act to achieve something) Takes the power away from people and places it in the hands of a supreme deity (fate, destiny, prayer, etc.)

Able to evolve or change No possibility for change unless 'god' (appeared) once again and introduced new set of commandments and laws.

Governs and controls people's conduct Governs and controls people's conduct and thoughts (god/angels are recording one's thoughts).

This is just my opinion, Carol, with my limited understanding of the word "ideology." Thanks for asking.
 

Fadi M. (37)
Saturday June 8, 2013, 2:55 pm
Ohhh.. My text was edited. There's supposed to be two arrows separating Ideology from Religion sentences. Here it is again with dashes in between. I hope it works this time:)

Carol, please forgive me for my late reply due to being busy with some work related issues, however, I'm back now but won't be able to spend much time on C2 like I used to, so I'll try to be brief and to the point.

Ideology vs. Religion:

Dies when better or more useful ideas surface Does not die since it takes a supernatural dimension.

Can be reasoned, debated, and investigated --- Cannot...

It usually disappears with the loss of power (state or civilization), through education/science, and increased awareness --- Continues to live in the mind of a believer since the source of its power is omnipotent.

Keeps the power in the hands of people (people believe they must act to achieve something) --- Takes the power away from people and places it in the hands of a supreme deity (fate, destiny, prayer, etc.)

Able to evolve or change --- No possibility for change unless 'god' (appeared) once again and introduced new set of commandments and laws.

Governs and controls people's conduct --- Governs and controls people's conduct and thoughts (god/angels are recording your thoughts).

This is just my opinion, Carol, with my limited understanding of the word "ideology"
 

Carol Dreeszen (364)
Sunday June 9, 2013, 12:44 am
Fadi..Thank You! I think you did quite well!! I do believe one who has Religion has a solid base to live their life by which goes beyond anything organized or brought about by man. I find there is nothing that can take the place of my faith in God. Without that I have nothing!

Here is an interesting article I found on this issue that I thought you might be interested in!

Religion vs Ideology

Religion and Ideology are two terms that are likely to be confused due to the closeness in their meanings and concepts. Religion consists in the belief in a superhuman controlling power especially in a personal God or gods entitled to worship ( Defined by The Concise Oxford Dictionary). In other words religion is the branch of knowledge that deals with the methodology of worship and the praise of God.

On the other hand ideology deals with the system of ideas at the basis of an economic or political theory. For example the Marxist ideology deals with the system of ideas at the basis of political theory. In other words it may be said that ideology has the basis in either economics or politics. This is the main difference between religion and ideology.

Religion deals with customs and manners of a particular community in terms of belief in superhuman powers. On the other hand ideology does not deal with customs and manners of a social group in terms of superhuman powers or divinity. It is more political in nature and principles.

Religion has nothing to do with politics whereas Ideology has a lot to do with politics. This is also an important difference between religion and ideology. Religion has basic texts to follow whereas ideology has basic concepts and principles to follow.

Religion often develops from founders and religious heads. On the other hand ideology proceeds from political leaders and economic thinkers. Religion is based on beliefs and faiths. On the other hand ideology is based on truths and proofs. Religion does not need proofs to establish the religious truths. It dwells more on logical conclusions. There is no room for logical conclusions in ideology. These are the important differences between religion and ideology.


Read more: http://www.differencebetween.com/difference-between-religion-and-vs-ideology/#ixzz2VhdLJTbL

Stop in again when you can!! Don't work to hard!! :-)
 
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