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Enough Is Enough!

Society & Culture  (tags: guns, gun control )

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Patrick Donovan (344)
Saturday December 15, 2012, 10:14 am
Enough is enough - the NRA must not be allowed to control this discussion of guns. As a society we must act now to return sanity to guns in this country.

SuSanne P (193)
Saturday December 15, 2012, 11:20 am
Thank you Patrick. The moment prior to opening this message from you I just had to turn off the news. I appreciate the thoughtful and meaningful words expressed in this article.
‘People say this is not the time to talk about gun violence—I agree. It should have been years ago.’

Patrick Donovan (344)
Saturday December 15, 2012, 11:30 am
Teachers are the heroes, not the problem:

Patrick Donovan (344)
Saturday December 15, 2012, 11:32 am
Here's a petition to President Obama asking for immediate action on gun control:

Catherine Turley (192)
Saturday December 15, 2012, 11:34 am
people will say that the kid would've just bought one off the streets if his mother hadn't had guns. maybe, but convenience is a huge factor that we have the power to eliminate. and in light of the football player shooting his wife recently, the police should confiscate all weapons from any home with even one domestic violence call and all occupants should be disallowed from future purchases.

Carrie B (306)
Saturday December 15, 2012, 11:44 am
Daily Kos Petition For Gun Guntol

Past Member (0)
Saturday December 15, 2012, 11:56 am
Thank you Patrick. Not too long ago there was a piece on tv news about how the gun laws were stricter in CT than most states..which now seems so ironic. Have signed quite a few petitions and I am sure there will be more written.

SuSanne P (193)
Saturday December 15, 2012, 12:03 pm
Web Search Results:
THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT SHOWS EACH TIME I TRY TO SIGN THE PETITION YOU SHARED. There is nothing, just bold print! I struggled with this yesterday Patrick. Is there any way you can open it and mail it to me personally?
Signing ALL petitions shared which have been many. Thanks to those who added new ones. PLEASE WRITE, EMAIL, CALL our President, Congress, House, EVERYONE!

SuSanne P (193)
Saturday December 15, 2012, 12:05 pm
Daily KOS-Thanks for signing.

Rose Becke (141)
Saturday December 15, 2012, 1:33 pm

Susanne R (234)
Saturday December 15, 2012, 1:59 pm
If we don't take steps to put a stop to this madness, then we are complicit in our role as bystanders. Our children deserve to live the lives they were blessed with, and we should set an example that not only protects them, but teaches them that they, too, will they have a voice in how a civilized society should function and teach them how to use it. We're learning that we don't have to sit back and take what the NRA, its gun lobbies and the politicians who fear them and/or accept their various forms of compensation expect us to. Children were brutally murdered. Parents and grandparents and siblings were mercilessly robbed of what they hold most dear. We have to do everything we can to end this madness!

Thank you for posting this, Patrick! We need to do everything we can to protect the most vulnerable among us. My heart goes out to all the loved ones of the victims. I can't begin to fathom their pain. We need to honor the victims and their families by punishing not just the person who pulled the trigger, but those who make such crimes possible. Let's put them out of business - or get them out of office - or whatever it takes, based on their role in this ongoing atrocity. I was going to say that we can't afford to wait until the next massacre --but that already occurred today, in a hospital in Alabama!

Rose Becke (141)
Saturday December 15, 2012, 2:12 pm

Patrick Donovan (344)
Saturday December 15, 2012, 2:47 pm
Susanne, you've laid out the problem and solutions quite clearly. We must not let greedy politicians grovel to the gun loving NRA and their political action committees. We must do what it takes.

Patrick Donovan (344)
Saturday December 15, 2012, 2:49 pm
Here is a link to the Avaaz petition site:

"Sign the petition now and send it to everyone -- when we hit 1 million we'll surround NRA headquarters and let them know this is the last tragedy of the NRA's reign:"

Also, if anyone wants me to e-mail links to petitions to them, please send me you e-mail address and I will.

Lisa N (206)
Saturday December 15, 2012, 2:50 pm
Thank you for posting Patrick & I have signed any & all petitions pertaining. There is definetly something wrong when we cannot protect innocent children!!

Patrick Donovan (344)
Saturday December 15, 2012, 2:55 pm
This petition is aimed at the worst media panderer: Fox News.

"And speaking live on Fox News, Mike Huckabee said that this shooting happened because "we've systematically removed God from our schools." He added, "Maybe we ought to let [God] in on the front end, and we wouldn't have to call him to show up when it's all said and done."

"These words are an insult to the victims, a"n embarrassment to sincere Christians, and a dangerous distraction from the national scourge of gun violence. Hateful and unchristian rhetoric like this has no place on a major television news network.

"Tell Fox News to take Mike Huckabee off the air unless he apologizes immediately.


Carlene V (202)
Saturday December 15, 2012, 3:01 pm
Thank you Patrick. The filthy NRA has blood on their hands once again. When the GOP finally gets the balls to tell the NRA to take a flying leap, this could stop. Crazy right-wing-nuts are blaming the fact that God is not in school any longer as why this horrible act happened. I will sign every petiton I can, we just can't let this issue fade like it has in the past.

Susanne R (234)
Saturday December 15, 2012, 3:24 pm
Mike Huckabee is not just a jerk, he's a hypocritical, NRA ass-kissing jerk! Posing as a holy man, no less! I'm so glad he didn't go any further in his political career. He's right where he belongs --with the idiots at Fox News.

Susanne R (234)
Saturday December 15, 2012, 3:25 pm
I can't get past this. Is Mike Huckabee inferring that God is taking revenge? I'm so furious right now, I'd better stop before I say something that gets me kicked off the site...

Kevin A (64)
Saturday December 15, 2012, 4:45 pm
The incident in Sandy hook is truly terrible. The cause was a person not the guns that were used.

As so many of our Care2 members point out, people are destroying our planet and each other. How many of our membership have said that the horrific things done to animals should be done to the people responsible? How many of our membership here would happily violently destroy the hunters and trappers that kill our beloved wildlife or pets? Many have stated here on Care2 that all hunters should be tortured and killed as they do the animals?

No gun has ever jumped up and run out to shoot someone or something. There is always the person's hand and mind behind the use of any weapon. Blame the people, not the weapon. If all legally owned firearms were confiscated, the criminals would still get them. Those that intend violence if they cannot get guns, will use other weapons that are just as deadly. Imagine if any of these lunatics had used explosives instead of firearms.

I once wrote and illustrated a book on improvised weapons that I intended to market to John and Jane Doe citizen for their protection against attack by criminals. In it I explained how virtually anything can be used as a weapon or defensive tool. It was ready to be offered to publishers when I decided not to have it published. That choice was made to keep the information out of the hands of criminals who might use the information to hurt innocents.

The point is that if everything that could be used as a lethal weapon were confiscated from all of those legally possessing such items, most of what you own would be taken away. If you start by taking guns, you set the precedent to take the rest.

Consider focusing on the media that promotes violence in the extreme. Focus on video games and movies that teach children not to value life or respect authority by the very design of the games. They are training our youth to kill. What do you expect them to do with that knowledge?

If my Care2 friends here feel they need to un-friend me over this, so be it. Quit letting people off the hook by blaming guns for the actions of people.

Yumana Yunes (197)
Saturday December 15, 2012, 5:13 pm
It was enough about 11 shootings ago! This is just too much! I'm outraged, in shock and pain.

Patrick Donovan (344)
Saturday December 15, 2012, 5:52 pm
Thank you Kevin for expressing your views, you are now un-friended.

Eternal G (745)
Saturday December 15, 2012, 5:57 pm
Indeed Patrick, y'all really need to talk revision of "gun-ethics/laws" in the US. I've always, as a non-US citizen, been totally flabbergasted by the freedom towards gun ownership in your country.... for one, next would be the close examination of the social structure of "modern" society...

Patrick Donovan (344)
Saturday December 15, 2012, 6:00 pm
Eternal G, I've been luck enough to marry a woman, amongst other wonderful qualities, is from Scotland. She loves where we live, New York City, but she can not understand the insanity in this country towards guns and the social safety that a society owes its citizens.

Jae A (316)
Saturday December 15, 2012, 6:11 pm
Many things are used to kill animals and people but the reality is........GUNS Do Kill only takes a person to aim and fire them at another person or animal. That's what guns are manufactored for..To Kill.... period ! Saying that it's not guns that kill it's people is like saying that water isn't what drowns a person's the person submerging their head in water and taking in the water that does. Well of course it is, just as it takes a person to fire a weapon...that' s a big DUH as well as simple reasoning.... the case of a gun it takes the projectiles/bullets from the gun to kill another,that is also basic logic ....So I guess if it's not guns that kill people it's the bullets that kill people. I can go with that. At best it takes the gun..and it's projectiles/bullets and a person in cooperation at best to kill another with a gun. Odds of killing another by throwing a bullet at them are slim to none , so ta say.

Stop letting the gun lobbiest and or supporters of no gun control laws try an make it out that guns don't kill people...people do,,kind of B.S. / crap. Guns have one purpose for kill with.
Sorry Kevin, I do think that is B.S. Without guns people would not use them to kill people..via the bullets they fire when used. Basis thinking in my opinion, as I've mention above. At least find another statement than 'guns don't kill people, people do' as a defense for guns existing and or for owning them etc. Just use another , more logical defense is my thought on that 'phrase'. Cars kill people but they aren't manugactured for just that purpose etc. What a product is made for is it's use and in this case ..guns are made with one thing in use to kill other living creatures. Use the defense that people need them to protect themselves against other gun owners , or to sport hunt ....or whatever but that tired and worn out phrase is illogical for starters I think. Stop blaming the wrong thing for what a 'tool/weapon' does... the actual cause of death comes from, not who fired the bullet in the case of guns....which is the gun firing of a bullet actually..not a person entering the body of another that is the cause of death, a person just pulled the trigger. [Geeeeeeez] However there have been cases where guns have fired on their own due to falling, being jared somehow etc. in which a person was killed by a gun/bullet and 'a person' [People] was not the cause for it's doing so......not pulling the trigger etc. So yes, it is a FACT that GUNS DO KILL PEOPLE.

Anyway...Without that 'tool'/'weapon' people might not be able to kill what it is they are wanting to kill quickly..or as many... and at arms length so to say........This is just my 'suggestion' as to that 'phrase' as some type of logial reason behind deaths by fire arms,which I don't see it as anything other than a bullcrap phrase. I as some others do view this differently apparently than you do Kevin, though on other topics we might and or usually do agree.

That being said, I just posted another story on care2 about a teen that was plotting to do another mass shooting at a school...yesterday !! It's past time to get gun laws past against automatic weapons at least , for starters. No one but police and military persons should have access to such weapons if ands or but's about it, in my opinion. It will not stop gun violence but it will limit a shooters ability to kill so many people quickly. Laws as to how many guns a person can own should also be put in place...for hand guns as well as rifles.

Barb K (1686)
Saturday December 15, 2012, 6:50 pm
What matters is that 20 sweet, innocent, babies were KILLED and the one who did it, is now in HELL!!

Constance F (418)
Saturday December 15, 2012, 7:41 pm
Thank you for posting Patrick ! And I already got reamed for saying the "right to bear arms" was an archaic piece of constituiton. A few hundred years ago when we were traveling through lands with no law maybe it could be seen as a right or a necessity, but tell me why people consider it their right to have access to a powerful weapon that can shoot a gazillion bullets into a crowd. Cut me a break. Although, I liked Michael Moore's analysis in Bowling for Columbine when he talked about how the violence in America is less about the amount of guns, but rather the fear driven pysche of America. And I'll add the hell bent individualistic cowboy my rights attitude. And why wasn't something done after Columbine ? If the time is not now to bring this to national light and action....then we fail every innocent person that has been the victims of these shootings. And sadly, I think Gun Control is only a small part of the equation, but it's something, it's a step in the right direction. PS: Signed both KOS and Avaaz petitons earlier.

Nancy Black (308)
Saturday December 15, 2012, 9:14 pm
Noted, tweeted, tweeted, and shared. This is truly horrible; babies being shot. Something has to happen to stop events like this one. Unfortunately, our culture is a cowboy culture, and we have allowed ourselves to be brainwashed. Our politicians have been bought or immobilized by fear of not being reelected. Think about it; violence has always been a part of our society, but more and more cases such as this are happening. We talk about it; we cry; then we ignore it after a week or so. We believe this garbage about guns don't kill; people do. It would have been rather difficult for Adam to kill 26 people if he only had a knife. The adults would have fought him off. They tried with him having a gun, but a bullet kills quickly. After the last shooting, a poll was done and 47% of the people believed allowed people to have guns without controls was more important than the lives lost. If there is positive thing about this event is all people are outraged because children were killed. Maybe this time, there will be some restrictions put on guns. This crime would not have been as easy to commit in Britain. Interestingly enough the NRA took down their Facebook page. They were more scared of words than bullets. Words can hurt, but bullets kill, and we lost twenty children who could have contributed great things for our world.

Ellen m (215)
Saturday December 15, 2012, 9:29 pm
No apologies needed from you Patrick...this is so far overdue that there is no later time to get this discussion blowing up the airwaves and inbox's of every single citizen in this country if we are to prevent yet another similar tragedy..
That being said, while we all condemn Huckabee and his ilk, as well as the likes of Terry Wright who has taken to twitter to let everyone know they plan to picket the funerals of these children, we would be amiss not to condemn and try to stop any politicians that try to pass anything while feeding off the mass grief and worry this country is going through right now...

Case in point...
"Hours after the terrible shooting in a Newtown, Connecticut elementary school, the Michigan House Republicans issued demanded that Governor Rick Snyder (R) sign a bill that would make it easier for people to receive a gun permit and open up “gun free zones,” including schools. A statement attributed to Press Secretary Ari B. Adler shrugged off any link between guns in schools and school shootings"

Apparently they feel if more "citizen heroes" had been armed, they would have been able to take this guy out before "he did so much damage"...i"m surprised they didn't find a way to use/work one of their favorite words, "Collateral Damage" into their asinine statements. Fu Yu GOP and NRA !!!

All petitions i have seen that might have wings have been signed..Thanks again Patrick! 1love

Süheyla C (234)
Sunday December 16, 2012, 12:04 am
God wrote the scenarios. Role selection has left us. What is this mess in the world? People kill for religion. People kill for race. People kill for power. When I was younger I was so mad God.
God was right .. Because realize a high power of God, looking for friends, friends. Distinction between false and true friends, that he could participate. Aldatılamayacak by himself and others, solid character, Perception, power is high. Developed the ability to analyze and synthesize. I would choose the best role in these roles. The world itself has imposed religion, race, money, entertainment, addictive chaos peel off. Overhanging the human self. Overhanging ego. God eaten tricks. Arrogance, righteousness, greed, religion, God, the ego trick. Find the best role. Need to play that role. Justification can not be the reason to kill even need to know. Contrite, giving a long life to bring people to God. Expects to find the right way need to know. A new life. New life hopes to change people need to know. God has worked a lot for his friends will gain. Made very large investments. Only a part of the universe we see. Mahatma Gandhi chose the best among the leaders role. Mahatma Gandhi was right. But I did not choose to kill. God is undefeated for fraud. And God's earned his friendship. I am so sorry for the kids. I would not tell them. Special to me. Because God never like that. WHETHER interfere with free will.

Süheyla C (234)
Sunday December 16, 2012, 12:22 am
aldatılmakmayacak=be deceived

Patricia E G (53)
Sunday December 16, 2012, 4:05 am
Thank you Patrick for submitting this article.
Most of the states could tighten up their gun laws,
particularly in the west where they are allowed to
freely shoot wolves. This latest act of violence
should bring forth the reality to the nation how slack
our gun laws are.

Past Member (0)
Sunday December 16, 2012, 6:58 am
Already signed both, thanks Patrick

Angelika R (143)
Sunday December 16, 2012, 8:57 am
I have also signed them all earlier, thx Patrick.

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Sunday December 16, 2012, 9:35 am

Thank you so much for posting this, Patrick.

Like everyone else, I'm still in shock/anger/overwhelming sadness.


Joe R (190)
Sunday December 16, 2012, 3:41 pm
Thanks Patrick. Both petitions signed.

Kathy Chadwell (354)
Sunday December 16, 2012, 7:50 pm
Thank you Patrick. I say it' is PAST time to keep up the pressure.
Sharing this, thank goodness Indiana took this seriously.

47 guns and $100,000-worth of ammunition

Kathy Chadwell (354)
Sunday December 16, 2012, 7:50 pm
PS. Petition signed and shared to facebook and twitters

Mike M (43)
Monday December 17, 2012, 9:16 am

. (0)
Monday December 17, 2012, 9:41 am
Thanks Patrick. Your title is spot on. If we don't step up and take control now-God only knows how many more of these horrors will occur. It's happened from coast to coast and no one is safe. The authorities stopped a similar attack from happening in Oklahoma, just one day afyter the Ct. attack. What the hell has happened here.

. (0)
Monday December 17, 2012, 2:28 pm
It's all in the hands of our government.

Patrick Donovan (344)
Monday December 17, 2012, 2:51 pm
In a democracy, we are the government. We are the ones who need to act.

JL A (281)
Monday December 17, 2012, 7:41 pm
Diane Feinstein has announced she will be introducing assault weapons ban legislation the first day the Senate is in session in Jan. We could all begin now writing our senators to tell them we want them to sign on as co-sponsors.

jo M. (3)
Monday December 17, 2012, 10:56 pm
Green star to Kevin, thank you for some common sense.

Kenneth L (314)
Tuesday December 18, 2012, 6:49 am
@Kevin A., a lot of that stuff you try to use against C2 animal rights activists when they say what they'd like to do to hunters etc. is just angry rhetoric by them. You're going to lose if you try to vilify C2 animal rights people to win some argument for guns..
As for guns, no sane person would ever think that there's nothing retarded about a citizen owning or needing an assault weapon. Don't mix those frigging things in with handguns.
And that bs comparison between assault weapons and 'anything can be used lethally like a knife etc'. is pathetic. Any idiot would rather face a knife than a 100 rounds per sec. or whatever from an assault weapon.

But even handguns, your country has so many there's no way to get rid of them AND even if you reduced the overall number there would STILL be plenty for people to go nuts with. Your country has dug itself into a hole.
Americans are born sucking on the barrel of a gun. Been that way for a long time there.
In Canada where I live virtually NO citizen owns a handgun. Unbelievable? Incredible? How could that be when one 'needs' them to survive and 'keep all the crime down' like the stupid ass mentality in the U.S.? We have crime but it's due to humanity. And it's not excessive crime in the least.
I'm almost 60 and I've never even seen a real handgun! Except the butts of a few in cop holsters. Same with my family, extended family, etc. I've heard of maybe 3 incidents with gun crimes in my immediate vicinity in my life. Never been the victim of a violent crime in 60 yrs. And I'm just an average Joe Canadian like the rest. The only people who have guns in Canada are cops, the military, hunters with long guns, and some criminals.
Your country is regarded as GUN CRAZY by most Canadians (I'm projecting here). Everybody and their stinking brother has a handgun. Most Canadians do not want handguns, need handguns, or even THINK about handguns! Which I'm sure is as alien a concept to Americans as their gun mentality is to us.

Jane H (139)
Tuesday December 18, 2012, 9:09 am

Roxie H (350)
Tuesday December 18, 2012, 9:44 am
O my goodness, I hopped on to the wrong news article and I should not even comment, but i feel compelled to. I face poachers and people who take animals with traps and then use guns to " finish off" the animals after they already have them. They dont go "hunting them down" first, they trick them and then torture the animals. These kind of creatures are not humans, they are demons that are in it for the thrill of watching something in pain and like seeing blood and seeing something scream and watch the horror of hurt and torture. Now that being said, I kind of see this in the choas in these other innocent babies getting hurt. I can not understand how someone can hurt these little babies. But most of the people in NRA want some more tighter restrictions in the type of ammunition and guns. No one should have a 30 round clip. No one should be able to have guns allowed in public eating and schools. It is gun laws gone wild in many states. Arizona and Wisconsin needs to be reeled in, Look in POPVOX. Please people... go look. Add your voice. There is gun laws in there waiting to be added into congress that will scare the most conservative mind. Go and check it out. Popvox works directly with congress you can have a voice in the lawmaking.

Jim P (3257)
Tuesday December 18, 2012, 10:48 am

POPVOX - Your Voice. Verified. Quantified. Amplified.

POPVOX bridges the gap between the input the public wants to provide and the information Members of Congress want and need to receive.

POPVOX bridges the gap between the input the public wants to provide and the information Members of Congress want and need to receive. Designed by people who understand Congress, POPVOX is different from other political sites. It is not a discussion forum. It is a place for action.

TY, Patrick.

Patrick Donovan (344)
Tuesday December 18, 2012, 11:06 am
Those are excellent links Jim, thank you.

greenplanet e (155)
Tuesday December 18, 2012, 5:31 pm
Guns do kill in the hands of people, can kill more than one person and can kill quickly. It may also be that people are desensitized to violence through movies and video games, and killing with a gun may seem impersonal to the shooter. We do need regulations on who can own a gun, types of guns permitted to be sold, gun shows etc.

It must be gun manufacturers/companies who benefit from a gun-crazy and violent culture.


Jelica R (144)
Tuesday December 18, 2012, 6:59 pm
I'm posting this petition list everywhere, so many of you have already signed them:

1. Enough vagueness. We want gun control.

2. The PetitionSite: How Many Kids Need to Die? We Need Better Gun Control NOW.

3. The PetitionSite: President Obama: We Need to Talk About Gun Control, TODAY

4. Avaaz: President Obama: Time to Talk About Gun Control

5. Today Is the Day for Common Sense Gun Regulations

6. Mayors Against Illegal Guns: Demand a Plan

7. Newtown, today we tell our leaders "No more!"

8. Daily Kos: Now is the time to talk gun control

9. Faithful America: Mike Huckabee's unchristian rhetoric about school shootings

10. AVAAZ: Tell the NRA: ENOUGH!

11. We the People: Immediately address the issue of gun control through the introduction of legislation in Congress.

12. Force Change: Stop Gun Violence: Urge President Obama to Enforce Stricter Gun Policies

13. Force Change: We Are Ready to Have a Conversation About Gun Control in the United States

14. Ultraviolet: No More Gun Massacres

15. The ChildHealth Site: Protect Our Children from Handgun Violence

Jelica R (144)
Tuesday December 18, 2012, 7:01 pm
Statistics, from GunPolicy,org; data for 2009.

-- UK; 0.3 gun homicides per 1,000,000 citizens (= 18); 6.72 priv. guns per 100 ppl
-- Canada; 5 gun homicides per 1,000,000 citizens; (= 173); 23.82 priv. guns per 100 ppl;
-- USA; 30 gun homicides per 1,000,000 citizens; (= 9,146); 88.82 priv. guns per 100 ppl.


Jelica R (144)
Tuesday December 18, 2012, 7:04 pm

GUESTBOOK CN shooting victims

Stand with families of the Newtown school shooting

Your state gun control policy:
Fatal Gaps: Can dangerous people buy guns in your state?

Arthur S (88)
Tuesday December 18, 2012, 10:50 pm
Jelica thank you so much for all of those links.

Gloria H (88)
Tuesday December 18, 2012, 11:55 pm
One of the reasons for using gas chambers was that shooting people was taking a stress toll on the shooters. Why were some people blindfolded before being shot? An act of dignity? Compassion for the target, or was it to make it more impersonal for the shooter?
What goes on in the mind of someone who does these acts? Altered state of mind? How can they hunt down victim after victim? Does it become a real life video game? Is something disconnecting in our culture where fantasy becomes more 3 d, more fleshed out into reality where the conscience goes blank and the reptilian part of the brain takes over?

Nimue Michelle Pendragon Gaze (339)
Wednesday December 19, 2012, 2:36 am
S&N ones I could.

Patrick Donovan (344)
Wednesday December 19, 2012, 5:53 am
Jelica R, thank you for the links and stats.

Arielle S (313)
Wednesday December 19, 2012, 8:00 am
It's not just about guns, it's about mental health and using tax money for the things it's really needed for and getting chemicals out of our food and changing our values and a host of other things. But the best place to start IS with guns. Adam Lanza could never have killed 26 human beings with a baseball bat or a knife. Guns - especially automatic and semi-automatic - have no place in a civilized society. The time for discussion is over - it's time for action.

Missy G (24)
Wednesday December 19, 2012, 9:19 am
It amazes me how ignorant some people are!!! I have been a gun owner for over 20 yrs now!! I deserve to have the right to keep ALL my guns!!! Taking guns away will not stop murders even mass murders!!! Only the most ignorant people would think it would!!! Theres no way to predict who will snap & do some evil shyt like what happened on Friday!!!! STOP thinking if we ban guns that this kind of evil will end, YOUR WRONG! !!

Patrick Donovan (344)
Wednesday December 19, 2012, 10:07 am
Arielle S., I could not agree more with your comment. We seem to have lost our way in how to view a government; my favorite view is the one set by Vice President Hurbert H. Humphrey who said, that:

"the moral test of government is how that government treats those who are in the dawn of life, the children; those who are in the twilight of life, the elderly; those who are in the shadows of life; the sick, the needy and the handicapped. "

Arielle S (313)
Wednesday December 19, 2012, 10:12 am
Great quote, Patrick - it would appear we may be in trouble tho considering how we do treat the children, the elderly and the sick.
Debra, how about you write to the parents of all those dead children and explain just why it is you need to keep your guns...

Jim P (3257)
Wednesday December 19, 2012, 10:48 am
To Debra: Do you understand statistics?

Quote from Jelica in above comment:

Statistics, from GunPolicy,org; data for 2009.

-- UK; 0.3 gun homicides per 1,000,000 citizens (= 18); 6.72 priv. guns per 100 ppl
-- Canada; 5 gun homicides per 1,000,000 citizens; (= 173); 23.82 priv. guns per 100 ppl;
-- USA; 30 gun homicides per 1,000,000 citizens; (= 9,146); 88.82 priv. guns per 100 ppl.


Jane H (139)
Wednesday December 19, 2012, 11:09 am
yes---it is enough now

Thomas P (280)
Wednesday December 19, 2012, 11:11 am
Noted...thanks. I think it's not only foolish but crazy to keep doing the same thing about guns (nothing) and except that MORE of this won't happen. It is way past due that we take AT LEAST some common sense approaches including banning assault weapons, closing the gun hole loopholes, and having everyone registered and licensed that owns a gun.

jan b (5)
Wednesday December 19, 2012, 2:03 pm
Where are my rights and freedom gone to in this.... to not be afraid of going to a movie, church, mall, riding in a car or having my children go to school or be confronted by a stand your ground law gun-slinger ? Why are people like me not safe on the streets because of drive-by shooting or shoot outs ? Where are my rights to have a nation like the UK and other countries that do not allow this life under the rotten old ancient --2nd Amendment that was written for the era of MUSKETS.

Sergio Padilla (65)
Wednesday December 19, 2012, 3:42 pm
Thanks for posting!

Dianna M (16)
Wednesday December 19, 2012, 3:50 pm
Someone posted on another forum, "when ever the word of reason comes into the place of passion there is little place given for moderation." How very true. Unfortunately, we will always disagree on who is "the voice of reason" and who is in "the place of passion." I've noticed that whenever gun safety is brought up, many begin screaming about their "Second Amendment Rights." I hear things like, "Guns don't kill people, PEOPLE kill people!" and, "If someone wants to kill, they'll find a way!" and the ever-popular, "If guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns!" This is not "reason"--it sounds like a knee-jerk reaction to me. How much "reasoning" does it take to repeat someone else's rhetoric over and over?

In the meantime--how many more people have to die because you believe your "right to bear arms" takes precedence over others' right to "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness"?--with emphasis on the first word of that phrase.

Yes, if someone truly wants to kill, they'll find a way. But I see nothing noble in making it easy for them to kill, and even less in making it easy to kill large numbers of people in a very short time.

Ellen m (215)
Wednesday December 19, 2012, 6:29 pm
Bravo Kenneth!
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Patrick Donovan (344)
Thursday December 20, 2012, 7:07 am
Janice B,, 100% agreement on my part; well said.

Send a Green Star to janice b.
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bob m (32)
Thursday December 20, 2012, 8:59 am

Is the constitution a living document?...or a mouldy set of rules which fail because of selfish determination; to relate to today one must LIVE in today.
He is tramping out the vintage , where the grapes of wrath are stored.

Past Member (0)
Sunday December 23, 2012, 7:44 pm

Melania P (122)
Sunday December 23, 2012, 7:49 pm
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