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Fibromyalgia October 03, 2006 9:55 PM

Some Dr's say this doesn't even exist yet we see so many say they are suffering pain and fatigue from it. Still others say it comes from Lymes disease, what are we to believe? I'm not going to tell someone that they aren't suffering.

Why do so many have it when most of us never heard of it until recently. Is it food related? Pollution? What?

 [ send green star]
 October 03, 2006 10:10 PM

monosodiumglutomate...good place to start because of it's well researched established toxicity.  [ send green star]
Arthur October 03, 2006 10:32 PM

I've heard that. I've also heard it could be aspartame or possibly it is a combo of the two. Americans have been (can't speak for other countries) totally brainwashed into drinking diet soda. It's addictive and has the same ingredients as wood alcohol (which causes paralysis and blindness).

I asked my friend, the one with severe fibromyalgia if she drank diet soda at all and she swore up and down that she didn't. Her sister told me that is all she drinks. Why do people lie? Are they in denial? What is it? I know if I were in crippling pain I would search for every possible way to alleviate it.


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 October 07, 2006 5:49 PM


Fibromyalgia is a stiffness and pain syndrome involving muscles, connective tissues (tendons, ligaments), bursae, and joints. It is also characterized by severe fatigue that is unrelieved by sleep because often Fibromyalgia patients do not get much, if any, stage 4 (or Delta) sleep—the "healing" phase of sleep where repair of bodily tissues takes place.

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Good read October 20, 2006 10:17 AM

This is long but when you get to the diet, supplement part, well worth the read. Especially if you or someone you know suffers pain from fibromyalgia.

Fibromyalgia: A Plausible Model for Cause and Cureby John W. Cartmell, LMP, Diet Advisor

Fibromyalgia is a disease of widespread soft-tissue pain and stiffness.

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 October 20, 2006 10:27 AM

I have FMS and there are groups on Care2 for members who are interested in joining....

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What Causes Fibromyalgia? January 20, 2007 9:36 PM

Though you may be suffering from widespread pain, chronic fatigue, and a variety of other fibromyalgia systoms, it can be difficult to ascertain why you have become a victim of fibromyalgia. Fibromyalgia remains an elusive syndrome. Even experts on the illness do not know why fibromyalgia occurs or what causes it. This often makes fibromyalgia disgnosis and treatment all the more difficult.

Why Can’t We Find A Cause?
Researchers have theorized on a number of possible causes for the fbromyalgia syndrome. Ranging from infection to accident trauma, the list goes on and on. But, despite a number of possibilities, to date no one cause of fibromyalgia has been determined. Why is there so much confusion when it comes to the origins of fibromyalgia?

Well, one of the problems is that there is so little evidence supporting any one theory. No physical examinations or diagnostic tests have pointed to any major cause of the disorder. Even muscle biopsies taken from the tender points of fibromyalgia sufferers have offered little information. Another problem is that fibromyalgia occurs in such a wide population. It affects women and men, and can hit at any age in life. This makes finding a single cause for the disorder very difficult.

Likely Causes of Fibromyalgia

Researchers in the field have singled out a few likely causes.

Autonomic Nervous System Dysfunction
Fibromyalgia may be caused by a problem with the brain’s autonomic nervous system. This system helps to control a number of bodily processes, including digestion, reaction to stress, and metabolism. Problems with the hormones and neurotransmitters used by the autonomic nervous system can interrupt certain bodily processes, causing a number of fibromyalgia symptoms.

Sleep Disorders
A large percentage of fibromyalgia patients have difficulty sleeping. Though once seen as a fibromyalgia symptom, it is now theorized that these sleep disorders may actually be the cause of the illness. Fibromyalgia patients don’t seem to get enough deep sleep, which prevents injured muscles and nerves from being repaired. This can result in serious pain.

Injury and Muscle Trauma
A large number of fibromyalgia patients do seem to have suffered from serious injury or muscle trauma, such as that caused by a car accident, prior to the onset of their fibromyalgia. Injury to the central nervous system can affect the way the brain operates, increasing sensitivity to pain as well as complicating sleep patterns and cognitive thought processes. Muscle injuries can also become chronic and widespread.

Other Possible Causes of Fibromyalgia

Other possible causes of fibromyalgia syndrome have been investigated.

Genetic Predisposition
Many fibromyalgia sufferers have close family members with the disorder. This may indicate that fibromyalgia has a genetic component. Fibromyalgia also tends to affect more women, which also supports the theory that fibromyalgia is a genetic illness.

Infectious Agents

Infectious illnesses, including certain viruses, may be at the root of fibromyalgia. Certain infections attack the central nervous system, inhibiting the production of neurotransmitters. This could cause fibromyalgia pain. Infections can also cause muscle trauma and injury, which may develop into chronic and  widespread pain.

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 January 20, 2007 11:38 PM

i have several clients as a counselor who suffer from it and i wonder - as recognizing some similarities - if there is any connection with abuse of alcohol as well as spiritual/psychological reasons...

i would be interested in your inputs about that ...

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i suffer from fms and i have rarely drank in my life. January 21, 2007 6:36 AM


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anonymous  January 21, 2007 6:49 AM

I have suffered for several decades with SLE (LUPUS) and have been recently DX'd with her Sister Dis-ease Fibromyalgia...yes FMS is real and very horrific to deal with....  [report anonymous abuse]
the cause January 21, 2007 6:53 AM

I would highly recommend this website to all sufferers of fibromyalgia.


It is the fourteenth entery on the list if you search the word mycoplasma in Yahoo's search engine.

There is also information on this on

The basic jist of it is this:

Some deadly pathogens were developed by the U.S. Bioweaponery Dept.  Several of them.  Some of these pathogens were meant to disable people.  To Research how these pathogens could be spread they bred mosquitos in a lab in Belleville Ontario, they infected them with the mycoplasma at Queen's University.  Then they released them all over the place.  In one of their studies, they released millions of these infected mosquitos between Kingston, Ontario and Cornwall Ontario, in 2 weeks there were several hundred reported cases of Chronic Fatigue Syndrome.

AIDS is a mycoplasma that was developed as a bioweapon. People were deliberately infected with it.


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(Member Is Blocked)
 January 21, 2007 6:56 AM

that address is www.whale/to/scott7.html

I missed the last t


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alcohol January 21, 2007 7:29 AM

In response to the question about the damage alcohol does.  It goes like this:

Every biological organism is subject to its own biological enviroment.  Where the organism develops determines the biological processes in its body.  Human beings, are biological organism.

If you hail from a place that has used carbohydrates and sugar for centuries, and centuries, like Italy, France etc.  your liver can convert acetaldehyde into an acetate.  Acetaldehyde is the substance produced in alcohol metabolism in the liver.  Carbohydrates and sugar make alcohol.  Potatoes and sugar, fermented produces Vodka, etc. etc.

If you hail from a place that produce little carbohydrates and very little sugar your liver does not have the ability to convert acetaldehyde into an acetate. (vinegar)

Toast and jam in the morning produces alcohol in your body.

Digestion is partly a fermentation process.

This has been known for very many, many years.  Alcohol, flour and sugar, was exactly the toxic soup fed to so many Nations of people so that the colonizers could take control of the land and resources.

If your body does not possess specific enzymes that breaks down the gluten in the flour, gluten acts as an opiate in the brain.  So does the casein in milk.

In 1930 a doctor in the Southern U.S. produced a booze called Hadacol.  To it he added the amino acid cysteine, Vitamin C, Vitamin B5.  This combination of nutrients metabolize alcohol, so people do not become addicted to it.  The FDA got wind of it and shut him down.  They called this very popular product 'adulterated'.  You can see on whiskey bottles the little slogan, 'unadulterated'.

So the fact is they have known how to prevent alcohol addiction since at least 1930.  How many poor souls have lost their lives in the last 76 years so that the alcohol industry could reap maximum profits?  How much pain and suffering has been caused by this?

It just blows my mind.  Anyone who is going to ingest alcohol should first take a bunch of vitamins so they can Metabolize it.

You can find excellent nutrients, and health information on this subject at

I first read about Hadacol in the book Life Extension, by Durk Pearson and Sandy Shaw.  They are the founders of the Life Extension Foundation.  They are the people who have fought the FDA and forced the revelation of the dangers of trans fat in people diets.  As far as I am concerned, they should be put in charge of the Health Care system in the United States.  They are really wonderful.

Alcohol does firbomyalgia victims not good at all.  Cold pressed Flac seen oil, Omega 3 Essential Fatty Acids, a diet of 85% vegetables and fruit.  No dairy, and no animal protein (or very little) will provide the necessary nutrients for your immune system to fight off the disease.

Everyone should take 200 mcg of selenium with 400 I.U. of Vitamin E everyday.  It is a powerful prophylactic against cancers and against autoimmune diseases.  It keeps the cells from reproducing improperly, tells them when to die, and keeps virus, bacteria etc. from being able to join with your own cellular DNA.


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(Member Is Blocked)
 January 21, 2007 7:34 AM

I should read what I write BEFORE I send it.  Fibromyalgia victims should take cold pressed FLAX SEED oil.  That will help them.

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(Member Is Blocked)
 January 21, 2007 2:05 PM

I've had FMS for about 20 years.

The article Donna posted above is the best one I've ever read.

The most frustrating thing I myself and friends who have this disease is in finding some kind of medical practicianer who can help. Most medical doctors attitudes range from outright rudeness to just ignoring your complaint. I have found that many of them attribute every sypmptom to FMS even if they do admit it exists. They are geared toward solving problems and this one is comp[lex and not easily fixed.

I had one Dr who actually was able to find trigger points, and he injected them with cortisone (just the one or two that were worst. It worked!! That tells me that there is actual physical changes. Caortisone works by lessening the effects of inflamation.

It is very hard to have to get past the disbelief of every single person who learns of your dianosis. I worked for 18 years with this disease and have just recently given up nursing because I couldn't do the hard physical work and lifting and moving heavy bodies of REAL sick people.

 [ send green star]
Diana January 21, 2007 5:29 PM

Did you find what might be worth trying to help yourself in that article?  [ send green star]
 January 21, 2007 7:38 PM

I am new to this group this is my first post. As an occupational aquatic therapist/certified massagse therapist I have worked with many patients with fibromyalgia. It is an immune system disorder which arises from an improperly functioning immune system. The problem is even with all of the research that has been done no one seems to be able to determine exactly what causes the immune system to malfunction. There are certain symptoms but they vary from person to person some people having higher level symptoms than others. One thing that is certain is there is chronic inflammation with fibromyalgia. Normally due to injury the soft tissue will become inflamed as a way of protecting the injured area with fibromyalgia the inflamation does not go away. There are chemical messengers called cytokines. These cytokines tell other immune system cells what to do, to activate, to grow or to die, they regulate the immune system response and control the inflammatory process and aid white cells in fighting infection. It has been found that when there is an excess of cytokines there is a negative effect on the autoimmune system, with fibromyalgia there is an excess of cytokines. The problem is they can't figure out what causes the excess. There are certain foods that seem to aggravate fibromyalgia, possibly a food intolereance these foods are, wheat, yeast, milk, sugar, peanuts, corn, eggs, citrus, alcohol, caffeine and soy. It has been my experience from working with my patients that with the onset of fibromyalgia there has been an emotional and or physical trama. I belive that stress is connected to fibromyalgia I have also found that there is a certain personality type which seems to go along with fibromyalgia. I am not saying that it is all emotional but I believe the emotional affects the physical and there is a connection. It is usually a rheumatologist who recognizes and diagnosis fibromyalgia. Since there is no cure for fibromyalgia it is about a maintenance and pain control program ( just a note, over time fibromyalgia often goes away on its own). Some of the things one can do are to avoid the foods I listed above, some foods that are good to eat are fresh pineapple, papaya, spinach, blueberries, strawberries and onions. Also taking omega 3's - flax, borage and evening primrose oils are beneficial these help to ease inflammation. I would suggests for the flax take the oil or capsules and not the seeds, as it is the oil in the seed that is needed and unless the seeds are finely ground they are so small and do not always break open when chewed or digested and the benefit is lost, these oils should not be heated as they also lose their benefit. The anti-oxident vitamins also are important. There are some herbs but unfortunately I do not have that info. at my fingertips just now. Drinking plenty of water is important, exercise is important swimming or just water exercise in a warm pool seems to be the best, walking can also be good, moderate stretching is good, some people have found Tai Chi is beneficial. With exercise for the first couple of weeks the pain may become worse but then it will ease up. The most important thing to remember when exercising is to not over do it, start with baby steps. Massage by a knowledgeable credentialed massage therapist can be very beneficial. Some insurances will pay for massage therapy for fibromyalgia if there is a physicians script. Keeping a regular schedule is important, getting up and going to bed at the same time every day as much as possible, this helps to regulate sleep patterns. Often someone with fibromyalgia has found that by doing all of the mentioned things here they are able to sleep better which plays a big part in releiving some of the pain. Try to eliminate as much stress from your life as possible when you are having a stressful time be sure to take good care of yourself I.E. a nice relaxing bath, quiet time alone, nice music, deep breathing whatever works for you to relax.

I guess I feel that I have to make a comment on the link that Donna suggested, in this article the author sited a few case studies yet all but the first one did not have fibromyalgia they had myofascial tissue problems. The two have some similiar symptoms but are very different and arise from different causes. Myofascial tissue problems are not an immune system disorder as it has been proven fibromyalgia is. As for protein from meat I know many vegetarians who do not have fibromyalgia problems and after a person does not eat meat for a certain amount of time there digestive system stops producing the enzymes that he discussed, therefore it seems to me if this was the cause many vegetarian/vegan people would have fobromyalgia. As for protein in our diets the nutritional scientific community offers a wide range
of figures for protein requirements from as low as two and a half percent of our total daily calorie intake to as high as 8 percent the high end figures are built in safety margines for those few individuals who have unusually high protein needs. Many scientist and nutritionist argue no one needs that much protein it is just a marketing gimick from the meat and dairy organizations. If someone ate nothing but wheat (17% protein) Oatmeal (15%) pumpkin (15%) and cabbage (22%) they would exceed the maxium protein requirement. As for the amino acids it used to be said that in order to get the complete amino acids one had to eat meat or combine vegetables and grains in a certain way. This has been determined to not be necessary if someone eats a healthy balanced diet it is complete rather a meat eater or vegetarian/vegan.  Another issue with a high protein diet is a link to osteoporosis. When there is more than 75 grams daily of protein in the system (75 grams is less than three-quarters of what the average meet eating American consumes) more calcium is lost in urine than is absorbed by the body th  [ send green star]
 January 21, 2007 8:07 PM

woops guess I used up all the space. 
As I was saying this creates a negative calcium imbalance.  Meat, eggs, and fish are the most acid forming foods if our blood becomes to acidic we would die.  Keeping our blood at a neutral PH is one of our bodies top priorites.  Accordingly if our diet contains a lot of acid forming foods our body withdraws calcium from the bones and uses this alkaline mineral to balance the blood PH.  Therefore causing a gradual decline in bone clacium leading to osteoporosis.  Possibly the author of this article is onto something with protein and fibromyalgia but I think he should have done more research before suggesting someone eat more protein.  If the problem is as he suggested because of lack of digestive enzymes the body can not assimilate the protein than there  would be an over abundance of protein in the blood system because the body could not absorb it. Thus creating an acidic PH possibly this is the connection.   

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RE: [NATURE PROVIDES] Fibromyalgia January 22, 2007 6:48 AM

If you made your system alkaline, mycoplasma shows up as a crystal and you can get a blood test to determine if you have it.  Also if the sine rhythms in the Left ventricle of an EKG are flat, that is also a test.  If you got your doctor to put a marker in your blood and an hour later test for the marker they can determine blood volume.  That also is a signal of mycoplasma.

People who are having a difficult time getting disability pensions because some useless doctor has said this does not exist should read the web site: www.whale/to/scott7.html

It has the address of where to send blood samples for testing.


From:  "Care2 Groups: NATURE PROVIDES Mailing List" <>
To:  <>
Subject:  [NATURE PROVIDES] Fibromyalgia
Date:  21 Jan 2007 20:17:40 -0800

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                 8:07 PM
        woops guess I used up all the space. 
As I was saying this creates a negative calcium imbalance.  Meat, eggs, and fish are the most acid forming foods if our blood becomes to acidic we would die.  Keeping our blood at a neutral PH is one of our bodies top priorites.  Accordingly if our diet contains a lot of acid forming foods our body withdraws calcium from the bones and uses this alkaline mineral to balance the blood PH.  Therefore causing a gradual decline in bone clacium leading to osteoporosis.  Possibly the author of this article is onto something with protein and fibromyalgia but I think he should have done more research before suggesting someone eat more protein.  If the problem is as he suggested because of lack of digestive enzymes the bod  [ send green star]
(Member Is Blocked)
 January 22, 2007 9:34 AM

Dianne, I did not say the body pulling calcium from the bones makes the PH akaline, I agree with you too akaline also comes with problems. What the body does when it pulls calcium from the bones is it takes the blood from too acid of a PH to a neutral PH. On the PH scale acid is from 0 -5, Akaline is from 7 -9, neutral is 6, blood should be neutral. For the blood to be neutral this requires a balance of acid and alkaline. The references for this information come form several sources - Dr. Roger Williams, biochemist and nutritional reseracher - The American Insititute for Cancer Research - Morris Natetoviltz and Marsha Wave, authors Stand Tall, - Dr. Nathan Pritikin - British Medical Journal - The US. Department of Health - Dr. John McDougall - Dr. Myron Winick, Director Columbia University Institiute of Human Nutrition - James F. Balch, M.D., Author Prescription for Nutritional Healing - T. Colin Campbell, Professor Division of Nutritional Sciences, Cornell University - Journal of American Medical Association - The National Academy of Sciences - Harvard University - United Sates Department of Agriculture - Journal of Clinical Nutrition - Michigan State University Nutritional Research - Medical Tribune - Journal of the American Dietetic Association

The Food and Nutrition Board of the National Academy of Sciences says "Modern nutritional science tells us clearly protein needs are met without any fuss". Even the National Dairy Council Dept. of Scientific Research found that too much protein leads to osteoparosis. They have fudged these results keeping the real findings from the public, because it wouldn't do sales of dairy and eggs much good. The U.S, Finland, Sweden and the U.K. have the largest percentage of people with osteoparosis in the world. These are also the countries whose people consume the most dairy and meat.

You may be thinking what does this have to do with fibromyalgia. The point I am trying to show here is that according to the author of your link people with fibromyalgia need more protein. I think that if those with fibromyalgia ate more protein in the form of meat, dairy, and eggs they would just be subjecting themselves to another serious health problem. There are those who probably do not have the enzymes sufficient for digesting and assimilating the protein that they ingest. In this case these people should not eat more protein but take the digestsive enzymes capsules which can be purchased at a health food store. Also protein ingested in the form of vegetables does not create an acid blood PH because vegetables and fruit yield an alkaline ash requiring no depletion of calcium from the bones to keep a neutral balance. The author of the fibromyalgia article also said that for the body to receive complete amino acids, proteins from different sources must be combined or it must be gotten from meat and dairy, this has been proven over the years to not be so.
At one time this was the belief among the scientific, medical and health communities. In the late 1960's a woman named Francis Lappe wrote an influential book, Diet for a Small Planet at that time there was much concern among the scientific, medical and lay community about lacking protein and nutrition on a vegetarian diet. This book was written to show that one could eat vegetarian in a healthy way. The basis of this, she had accepted the hypothesis that the pattern of amino acids found in animal protein was superior for human nutrition than that found in vegetable protein. In the 1960's and 1970's the amino acids found in eggs were the ultimate standard to measure a complete protein. Ms. Lappe showed that when plant foods were mixed in certain combinations this same amino acid chain was created. In 1981 Francis Lappe re-wrote Diet for a small Planet, updating it with all of the new nutritional information that had been discovered. In this version she states that it is not necessary to combine plant foods in a certain way in order for a person to receive the complete amino acids. Her statement was based on scientific and medical health research. Today, in 2007 this resesarch still holds this same consensus, that it is not necessary to combine foods or to eat meat, dairy or eggs to receive the complete amino acids. The author of the fibromyalgia article stated that the desired requirements for protein intake for a woman were 50g daily and for a man 60g. I do not have the information of current rquirements for a man but for a woman the current requirement of daily protein grams recommended by the National Academy of Sciences is 44g.

I think that there were some good points in the authors article but I also think that some of his information was outdated possibly the article was written some years back or possibly he had not done current research. In writing this it is not my intention to disagree with you.  As I have said before I work with many fibromyalgia patients and I know how painful, frustrating and debilitating the disorder can be. I just do not want to see anyone with fibromyalgia unknowingly make a choice that may not be in their best interest and compound an allready uncomfortable, painful situation. I think that a person should be informed of all of the information and make their own choices according to what th  [ send green star]
Donna January 22, 2007 9:35 AM

I am going to try to find some of the books in the suggested reading list.

I was being rushed out the door yesterday and hadn't finished reading all of the treatment paragraph, which proved to be brief.

I have used alot of alternative treatments in the past and become frustrated by the way that any physical treatment modality is just a stopgap until the next stressful situation, weather change or virus comes along. I recently did a series of acupucture treatments after repeated very severe episodes of hip and lower back pain after a car crash in which my knee hit the dash. The soft tissue  changes described in that article best describes what I found happening...very long term unhealed deep tissue pain. FMS has so many overlaps with other conditions and systems that dismissing any one practitioners experience out of hand would be a mistake.

The acupuncture seems to have helped over the long term. I had read that it sometimes did and sometimes was of no use. 

I do think that nutrition  holds the most possibilities. I think that vegetarian sources of protein might be best, because my own experience is that red meat, at least, causes more pain. 

As to exercise,  I keep going and moving in all but the very worst times. (about twice a year)

 [ send green star]
 January 22, 2007 9:44 AM

they beilieve and feel will work for them.  It is not my place to tell anyone what to believe or what choices to make.  I do hold in high regard the power of well educated and informed choices.  [ send green star]
 January 22, 2007 9:58 AM

I agree Diana, I think that people with FMS have different experiences and each practioner no matter what the modality has some piece of good information to bring to the table. As well as those with FMS have a wealth of information to share.  Because as you say FMS overlaps so many other conditions it is a mystery.  As a practioner working with Fibromyalgia patients I am interested, and mystified by the disorder, why is it that for some FMS patients one day the symptoms just dissapear not to return yet others live with the disorder for years or a lifetime.   Why does it have physical symptoms yet the researchers and doctors can not find the cause.   Why do different techniques of relief work or not work differently on different people. What is the emotional connection, I know there is one.  These are just some of the questions I have and keep searching for the answers.      [ send green star]
 January 22, 2007 10:56 AM

Eugenia, I have to think that the cause must be a combination of factors. There is most certainly an emotional component. 

I think that being in any kind of out of control situation might be a common factor. Many victims of FMS have a history of some kind of abuse. There is a heredity factor. There is the possibility of exposure to different viruses.

The severity and extent of different FMS sufferers symptoms may be related to the number and serverity of causitive stressors?

 [ send green star]
 January 22, 2007 11:52 AM

I also have found that the majority of FMS patients that I have worked with over the years have endured some kind of abuse. I suspicion that 100% of them have. Possibly the few that I don't know for sure is because they did not tell me I can only think it a possibility by behavior. From my observations I have thought that stress plays a significant role in FMS. I have also noted that personalities who feel the need to always be in control of their surroundings and relationships have a higher percentage of fibromyalgia, this personality type probably relates back to the abuse. This would also explain why there is a higher precentage of women with FMS compared to men, a larger percentage of women are abused and I think the majority of women deal with abuse in a different way than an abused man. From my educational knowledge as related to my profession I have learned that everything a person experiences on an emotional level if it is not healed emotionally is stored in the physical body causing real physical problems and illnesses. Possibly a component one needs to consider when treating fibromyalgia syndrome is not only does the physical body need to heal but also the emotional. Possibly if someone With FMS is doing all of the right things physically but the emotional is not healing it could block the physical from healing, this also would explain why different patients respond differently to the same healing modalities.
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 January 22, 2007 12:31 PM

As for exposure to viruses as related to FMS. Fibromyalgia Syndrome is an autoimmune disorder and as we all know when the autoimmune system is not functioning properly it is not as able to fight of viruses that the body is exposed to and therefore the body is more susceptible to the virus.  If certain viruses are a component to FMS did the virus come first or the FMS.  Is the virus the cause of the FMS or a symptom compounding the FMS?  Just my mussings.  I remember a few years ago reading an article (I wish I would have paid more attention to it, I can not say who wrote or where I read it) what I do remember is that it was about a hypothesis that the polio vaccines that were put into sugar cubes and passed out contained some kind of a chemical that changed the DNA causing immune system diseases and disorders.  Does anyone have any info. about this?    [ send green star]
anonymous  January 22, 2007 12:32 PM

Maybe we who actually have this are the best experts in the field.  Having lost a lot of weight helped immensely and being on Celebrex daily has been the best to put it to rest.   Eating right, getting exercise all helps.  Too much weight gain really hurts it.  [report anonymous abuse]
 January 22, 2007 1:29 PM

As to viruses and FMS, I have heard of many different linked to FMS. What I do know for sure is that when I catch any virus the effects of the disease are magnified.  [ send green star]
 January 22, 2007 3:33 PM

This has helped me tremendously:

 [ send green star]
alkaline January 22, 2007 6:28 PM

Eugena, I didn't disagree with you.  I just pointed out that f you MAKE your system alkaline you are then able to get tested for Mycoplasma.  That is one of the many pathogens that causes diseases like chronic fatigue, MS, AIDS etc.


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(Member Is Blocked)
Carolyn January 22, 2007 6:41 PM

Celebrex's Hidden Risks

"During the past 25 years, 1 in 5 medicines were found to have serious side effects that were not recognized at the time of marketing?" - Journal of the American Medical Association

"We thought Celebrex was safe and the problem was just with Vioxx?The problem is more complex than we thought."- Dr. Richard Hayes, New York Cardiologist

Although Celebrex is now thought to cause dangers similar to Vioxx and Bextra, Pfizer has not recalled Celebrex from the market.  However, those who have taken Celebrex and suffered severe coronary events such as strokes and heart attacks, or their families if the coronary event resulted in death, may have legal options to recover for damages.

Ironically, Celebrex dangers were demonstrated during a study conducted by the National Cancer Institute and paid for by Pfizer itself.  In the study, called the Adenoma Prevention with Celecoxib (APC) trial, patients taking 800 milligrams a day of Celebrex had 3.4 times the risk of a severe coronary event as those given a placebo, while those taking 400 milligrams had 2.5 times the risk.  The trial was halted after the risk factor was demonstrated.

 [ send green star]

 January 22, 2007 6:49 PM

Dianne, I apologize, I'm sorry. I misunderstood now I see what you are saying. 
 [ send green star]
 January 22, 2007 6:54 PM

you two, hug  [ send green star]
Tina January 22, 2007 6:58 PM

That is an excellent link you put up for those who want natural help.  [ send green star]
re January 22, 2007 11:49 PM

Universal health laws are true for all dis-eases including this one. Many of the above stories, examples and supplements point to these health laws.

No virus can live in an alkaline environment. Whether a body is alkaline or acid can be tested with Ph paper.

There are also many anti-viral herbs and other natural remedies.

Inflammations can be and often are due to acid conditions in the body, aggravated by stress and insufficient enzymes. Inflammations cause pain, both sudden and chronic.

Spiritual problems, negative emotions and thoughts can also create acid conditions and inflammations in the body.

A holistic approach works best... When universal health laws are followed or used, the result is always positive.... unless environmental factors are the cause. 

Environmental factors such as mercury fillings, radiation, indoor pollution, allergies, chemicals or drugs, etc, can also cause this or other dis-eases. These causes need to be ruled out or addressed as well.

 [ send green star]
Eric January 22, 2007 11:54 PM

I have to agree with you on that. BTW, didn't we originally meet in a Zen group?  [ send green star]
Moved from another thread February 07, 2007 10:17 PM

BH Horse Rescue V.
BH Horse Rescue has received 19 new, 49 total stars from Care2 membersBH Horse Rescue has been awarded 326 butterflies for taking action at Care2
fibromyalgia 9:22 PM
This is my first post here and I am desperate. I have been diagnosed with severe Fibromyalgia. It is very painful and the medication they give you does me no good, except gain weight and have bad side affects. I have heard of taking magnesium. I have back and knee problems and this just adds to that. Has anyone found anything they think that is a better alternative to rx drugs. I don't want to take all that garbage with all the side effects.. I cannot afford to gain anymore weight and am having enough trouble getting it off, can't exercise, this is a viscous circle. Not ready to give up yet.
There must be a natual remedy that will alleviate this, Nature does provide, I just need to find it.  [ send green star]
 February 07, 2007 10:26 PM

This company has a lot of great products, not just for fibromyalgia but many others as well. Check it out and decide for yourself.

 [ send green star]
BH Horse Rescue February 12, 2007 8:28 AM

Have you had a chance to check out this thread. Lots of really great info here.

 [ send green star]
WS February 18, 2007 11:30 AM

Where are you This thread should interest you.  [ send green star]
Fibromyalgia-like symptoms February 18, 2007 2:58 PM

First I wanted to thank everyone for all the good info posted on this thread. I've been dealing with something for a number of months now, I don't if its fibromyalgia, or just something with alot of the same symptoms. I tried going to the doctor to get a diagnosis; I'm not even going to get into telling y'all about that fiasco. So I've been treating myself, through healthy diet, supplements and lots and lots of rest. I suspect the cause of my condition to be chemical exposure, from cleaning fluids, I had a housecleaning business, which I have given up in order to get away from the chemicals. Also I had a cracked filling, and I'm pretty sure it leaked mercury, there were times I noticed a funny taste in my mouth. The filling finally dropped out, and that seemed to be the turning point for me, I started getting my energy and stamina back after that. What is amazing to me, is that there are So Many people with these symptoms, that are being brushed off by the conventional medicine establishment. I believe the cause is overload of toxins, from the environment, from chemicals in food, from mercury amalgram fillings. Its just too much for the immune system, if someone is exposed to too many toxins. I don't know why the medical establishment has a hard time acknowledging this.  [ send green star]
 February 18, 2007 3:27 PM

Ok...I do drink diet soda...not as much as I used to now, I drink mainly water now...but I do have excruciating pain in my neck and shoulders and have really bad headaches ....I go thru bouts of sleeplessness and then I end up sleeping alot, do you think I need to have myself checked for FMS?  [ send green star]
 February 18, 2007 3:47 PM

Its partly a magnesium deficiency. fibroplex by metagenics works a lot. i think its related to candida too. definetly diet related.  [ send green star]
 February 18, 2007 3:49 PM

heres a link to fibroplex  [ send green star]
Angela February 18, 2007 6:12 PM

Yes I agree about the magnesium connection; I wonder which came first though--does the deficiency cause the condition, or does the condition cause the deficiency? For sure taking supplements of both minerals and vitamins has helped me. Also, something I forgot to mention, I drink liver supportive teas daily, as cleansing toxins puts alot of strain on the that organ. Milkthistle is my favorite, I like the taste.  [ send green star]
 February 20, 2007 10:47 AM

Posts made in another thread:

BH Horse Rescue V.
BH Horse Rescue has received 30 new, 68 total stars from Care2 membersBH Horse Rescue has been awarded 350 butterflies for taking action at Care2
fibromyalgia February 07, 2007 9:22 PM
This is my first post here and I am desperate. I have been diagnosed with severe Fibromyalgia. It is very painful and the medication they give you does me no good, except gain weight and have bad side affects. I have heard of taking magnesium. I have back and knee problems and this just adds to that. Has anyone found anything they think that is a better alternative to rx drugs. I don't want to take all that garbage with all the side effects.. I cannot afford to gain anymore weight and am having enough trouble getting it off, can't exercise, this is a viscous circle. Not ready to give up yet.
There must be a natual remedy that will alleviate this, Nature does provide, I just need to find it.  [ send green star]

Babs M.
Babs has received 12 new, 12 total stars from Care2 membersBabs has been awarded 1 butterflies for taking action at Care2
 5:59 AM

hi there, im afraid i dont know anything about fibromalgia, i have a friend who suffers from it and it pains me to see that no-one (docs etc) seem to be able to bring any relief.  i see that you are also in desperate need of info so im just writing this to bring this message to the most recent list so hopefully someone will see it and help.

so....if anyone does know anything about fibromalgia please write in and share your info.

thank you, and once again im sorry i dont know anything to help.

peace and love to you,

babs %#&!*%

E M C.
E M has received 2 new, 2 total stars from Care2 members
Will sort out the info shortly 10:28 AM

I will sort out the necessary information later tonight.


Wolf Singer W.
Wolf Singer has received 128 new, 3789 total stars from Care2 membersWolf Singer has been awarded 508 butterflies for taking action at Care2  [ send green star]

 February 20, 2007 10:51 AM

Sorry ... the post from Wolf Singer got cut off:

Wolf Singer W.
Wolf Singer has received 128 new, 3789 total stars from Care2 membersWolf Singer has been awarded 508 butterflies for taking action at Care2Wolf Singer has 7 Golden Notes.
Hi BH 10:34 AM

I have bad fibromyalgia, also, and so far, what I've found very helpful is sunshine, and on gray days, a full-spectrum light.  I think it has something to do with getting vitamin D, which naturally occurs in sunlight.

Using 1/2 to one cup of epsom salts in a tub of hot water and soaking for 20 to 30 minutes is also really helpful, I've found.  The epsom salts help to relax the muscles and soft tissues, and enable a better sleep. 

If you're okay with herbs (if you don't have any allergies or sensitivities or any other problems), I've also found that a mug of catnip tea (organic catnip only) REALLY helps with the pain; I can't even count the number of times I've had to use it - and I've felt better by the first half of the cup.  I use a tea ball to measure out the catnip, and then I let it steep for a few minutes and add a small dollop of unpasteurized honey to taste (it's quite bitter without it).

 [ send green star]
anonymous WildOne February 20, 2007 10:53 AM

"Some Dr's say this doesn't even exist yet we see so many say they are suffering pain and fatigue from it. Still others say it comes from Lymes disease, what are we to believe? I'm not going to tell someone that they aren't suffering.

Why do so many have it when most of us never heard of it until recently. Is it food related? Pollution? What?"

Personally, I think it's an environmental illness. Interestingly, though, fibromyalgia has been around since the 1950's - people just didn't know what it was called, back then.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I personally have noticed that when we're out in the mountains for any length of time, and away from city pollution, I feel a lot better.  I don't have the intense pain, I actually sleep - and, I REST, too - and a lot of the effects of this condition just seem to disappear.  It's like I have my life back again, and I hate having to come back to the city after being free of all the crud for the time we're away.

But I also think that fibromyalgia could be connected to metaphysical issues, as well - like severe trauma (mental, emotional, physical, etc) - and that working out the emotional/mental/spiritual/psychic/etc. pains will at least help to ease the physical manifestations of this condition.  Of course, this is just my own opinion...

 [report anonymous abuse]
I received a network message today February 25, 2007 9:19 AM

When I read it I honestly didn't know whether to or

It was sent out to friends of a person who had invited us to a Fibromyalgia group on Care2.

The Host of that group asked her to tell us to unjoin if we were also members of Nature Provides as no natural methods for helping Fibromyalgia are welcome in that group.

I'm not a member there but getting this message "if I was" was quite the mindblower I thought.

Are people afraid of getting well or what? What is wrong with these peoples thinking processes?

 [ send green star]
anonymous No money in the Cure February 25, 2007 9:22 AM

Like Chris Rock says "there's no money in the Cure".  [report anonymous abuse]
Carrie February 25, 2007 11:48 AM

Yes, on several different levels. I just got a message from a woman who said the problem with being healed, naturally or otherwise, also has to do with a loss in Disability benefits.

What a sad, sad state of affairs when people are financially dependent on being ill. That really sucks.

 [ send green star]
the power of Belief or Disbelief February 25, 2007 1:38 PM

Yep, you have to want to be healed.  [ send green star]
Fibromyalgia February 25, 2007 2:23 PM

It is a auto-immune disiese much like MS.  However, most people I have ever known with it that I worked with or were friends struggled with history's of substance abuse,emtional difficulties, high consumption of sugers, and much processed food.

I do understand that it causes pain and discomfort but I do not understand doctors who just supply enormouse amounts of pain killers instead of recomending change in eating habbits and so forth.

Being someone with Multiple Sclerosis I find Ayurvedic herbs (from plants only) have helped the most and even changed the progression of the disease.  Sure every person with an auto-immune disease suffers in diffwerent ways.  However, a positive attitued, healthy eating helps.


 [ send green star]

How the body creates it's own stemcells February 25, 2007 4:54 PM

 [ send green star]

Moved here from another thread February 25, 2007 4:58 PM

Donna F.
Donna has received 74 new, 3592 total stars from Care2 members
 November 19, 2006 7:00 PM

Enhance Stem
Cells Naturally

A Quiet Breakthrough Beneath All the Controversy:
"Patented stem cell enhancer adds 3 to 4 MILLION STEM CELLS into your bloodstream, in one dose, within one hour! Learn how you can re-awaken your body's own ability to renew itself and maintain optimum health, safely and naturally--"

 [ send green star]
More February 25, 2007 4:59 PM



Natural Support for Your Stem Cells
Stem cells are the fundamental building blocks of our body. Now we know there are stem cells within most organs and tissues of the body and these stem cells help to maintain optimum health. As we age our stem cells decrease in number, thus NutraStem™ nutritional supplements strive to support the normal growth and function of our body's own stem cells, by providing antioxidants.*

  NutraStem™ is a patent pending formulation of natural ingredients that have been found to work together to promote the growth of human adult stem cells, thereby assisting in the maintenance of optimal health when combined with proper diet and exercise.* This unique formulation was developed by leading University scientists.

 [ send green star]
more February 25, 2007 5:01 PM

Donna F.
Donna has received 74 new, 3592 total stars from Care2 members
 November 19, 2006 7:13 PM

What is it?
StemEnhance is a breakthrough, natural botanical extract that supports wellness by helping your body maintain healthy stem cell physiology.  It is the very first product on the market from the latest phytoceutical product category called “stem cell enhancers”.

What are stem cell enhancers?
Recent scientific developments have revealed that stem cells derived from the bone marrow, travel throughout the body, and act to support optimal organ and tissue function.  Stem cell enhancers are products that support the natural role of adult stem cells.

Why do I need this product?
As you age, the number and quality of stem cells that circulate in your body gradually decrease, leaving your body more susceptible to injury and other age-related health challenges. 

Just as antioxidants are important to protect your cells from “free radical” damage, stem cell enhancers are equally important to support your stem cells in maintaining proper organ and tissue functioning in your body.


“helping your body help itself”

 [ send green star]
Hello Sherrie! February 25, 2007 5:17 PM

I read your message about that other Fibromyalgia group and my response is merely..... What?  Ummmm.... What are they going to talk about?

Anyway, I have run across many people that indeed do not want to be cured.  Or are afraid to be cured, in one way or another.  Despite being terminal, they will still cling to what is killing them.  This is so very sad.

 [ send green star]
Does anyone else experience this? February 25, 2007 5:25 PM

Hi friends, My legs from the knee down feel like cold air is blowing on them. And there is no cold air. I have my legs wrapped in a blanket right now, and it still feels like a fan blowing cold air.

Thanks for your input!

 [ send green star]
anonymous  February 25, 2007 6:14 PM

Hello my dear ones,

I have had Fibromyalgia now since 1998, and little by little it takes from you.  Today my skin hurts to the touch, my legs hurt my arms very much, everything hurts really.  I even have nodes now all over my legs to the touch and also my ribs and some on my arms.

There is no cure, the doctors can only help with medicine for the pain and I stopped taking Lyrica which my doctor had given me for my leg pain as it did not work.  I take nothing for a long while now and the pain is horrible.

I was told by the doctors a few years ago that such pain gets so bad and the legs lose strenght and one can end up on a wheel chair.

I belong to a group that is very understanding, giving, caring and with much information on such illness if anyone wishes to know.

Much love,


 [report anonymous abuse]
Hello... February 25, 2007 8:22 PM

I have allot of the same symptoms that you all have.  I was diagnosed a year ago, but have been going to doctors for the last 10 years, trying to figure out what was wrong with me.  I just kept getting diagnosed with different things as time went on.  Finally, one day, someone said.. "you know.. it sounds like you have firbromyalgia".  So.. I looked it up on the net, and I had all of the symptoms.  I printed it out.. highlighted everything pertaining to myself, and took it to my doctor.  It wasn't until then, that I was diagnosed with fibromyalgia.  I also suffer from P.T.S.D., and O.C.D.

I believe everyone's system is different, and relates to medications and natural/holistic ways as well.  We have to find what works for us best.  I am on three medications.  I take Ativan, Lexapro, and Ultram ER.  But.. I also like to smoke the green.  It helps me with my appetite and to sleep, and is an instant calmer when I am having a panic or anxiety attack.   So.. that's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

I send you all Peace and Love,

Rochelle *hugs* from the Oregon Coast~

 [ send green star]
Gilda February 25, 2007 8:34 PM

You say there is no cure and you may be right about that Gal, but with prevention and remedies a cure may not be necessary. Stick around, you may surprise yourself.  [ send green star]
 June 02, 2007 10:35 PM

 [ send green star]
 June 03, 2007 4:01 AM

Guess what? Fibromyalgia does absolutely exist!  I know, because most my younger life, Doctors would write in my medical records about my having "myalgia's" but they never gave it a name until I was 29 - 30 yrs old...  THEN all of a sudden slowly people began to hear of it, and the Docs then began to recognize it and the symptoms.

Now their are support groups for fibromyalgia, tons of reading material and information.. but do they know everything about it yet?? NO...

so far it's been found in mainly women, but men do also have it..

I've lived with this most my life, it's been almost 20 yrs. that they gave it a name and recognized it as a disease... so believe me when I say that it is uncomfortable to live with, but so are many of the aches & pains one developes as they get older... 

the depression & anxiety that accompanies fibromyalgia is not always easy to deal with, then add it to 2 different forms of arthritis in your system plus carpel tunnel... and life begins to get tough...

pains in my chest when they occur, there are too many reasons why I'd be having them, because of the fibromyalgia (pains in center of brest bone or tenderness) but when you've experienced plurasy (sp?) fibromyalgia, the arthritic situation... pains can be anywhere at anytime, so it's difficult to know exactly WHAT or WHY you may ache here or there?

There are certain "trigger points" that help docs diagnose fibromyalgia, once they press on those "trigger points" and you do have this disease, you will definately feel them pressing this spots!  Sleep or lack of it is a big problem with fibromyalga also.

To go into a deep REM sleep, which we all need for complete rest.. is not an easy tasks for people with fibromyalgia, so that's the beginning of the cylce.  So just remember SLEEP is important, good sleep that you totally are relaxed and in REM.  But I cannot really ad encouragement there, because I seldom dream, (cause I don't reach the REM stage maybe???)  I'm tired a lot, no energy and yes the less sleep the greater those annoying aches & pains are..

If I'm correct on this?  Fibromyalgia isn't so much in ones bones or joints, this is an affliction of the muscle and other "tissue" around your bones & joints.  Tenderness in deep tissues or something on that order anyway? 

Well, enough for a while on this subject... don't want peeps to hate me cause I'm too long winded here   lol

take care all & God bless...

hugs     ~TW~

 [ send green star]
 June 03, 2007 7:57 AM

For those who are seeking to get to the root causes of Fibromyalgia:

 [ send green star]
anonymous  June 03, 2007 8:04 AM

Fibromyalgia Myth Busting by Karen Lee Richards 05-16-2007 For many years Fibromyalgia has been considered something of a mystery, confounding the doctors who are trying to treat it and the patients who have to live with it. Only recently has new technology begun to unravel the truths about this mysterious disorder. As a result of the previous lack of scientific evidence, several myths about Fibromyalgia have developed that, unfortunately, are still being repeated today. It's time to dispel the myths and clarify the facts. Myth 1: Fibromyalgia is a form of arthritis. Fact: Fibromyalgia is a neurologic disease. Although it was once thought that Fibromyalgia might be a form of arthritis, research over the past 10+ years has proven that to be false. Arthritis is defined as an inflammation of the joints, but there is no inflammation with FM, nor is there any damage to the joints. A Fibromyalgia patient may have a type of arthritis (like osteoarthritis or rheumatoid arthritis) in addition to FM, but it is a completely separate disorder. On the FM research front, new brain-imaging techniques and scientific studies are revealing that Fibromyalgia is better defined as a central nervous system disorder that results in abnormal pain processing. Myth 2: Fibromyalgia affects the muscles, joints and connective tissue. Fact: There is no damage to the muscles, joints or connective tissue of people with Fibromyalgia. For many years Fibromyalgia was described as a musculoskeletal disorder because much of the pain people experience with FM feels like it is coming from the muscles, joints and connective tissues. However, years of testing failed to reveal any actual damage to the musculoskeletal system. What research has discovered is that a malfunction in the central nervous system of FM patients causes disordered sensory processing which leads to pain amplification. In other words, a stimulus that would not even be noticed by most people can be extremely painful to someone with Fibromyalgia. Myth 3: Fibromyalgia is an autoimmune disease. Fact: Fibromyalgia is NOT an autoimmune disease. Autoimmune disease is the result of a body's overactive immune response. In a sense, the body's immune system begins to attack it's own cells and tissues. There is no evidence that Fibromyalgia is an autoimmune disease. In fact, years of research have not turned up any virus, bacteria or immune disorder. It's not unusual, however, for someone with FM to also have one or more autoimmune diseases, such as: celiac disease, Crohn's disease, lupus, multiple sclerosis, rheumatoid arthritis, Sjögren's syndrome, or some types of thyroid disease. Other illnesses that are suspected to have an autoimmune link and may occur with FM include: Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, endometriosis, interstitial cystitis, and Lyme disease. Myth 4: Fibromyalgia is a middle-aged woman's disease. Fact: Fibromyalgia affects men, women and children. To date, a larger percentage of adult women have been diagnosed with Fibromyalgia than men or children. However, it does affect all ages and both sexes. In fact, it may turn out that more men and children have FM than previously thought. Doctors are finding that men may have fewer than the traditional 11 tender points, yet still meet all the other criteria for FM. Thus, there may be considerably more men with FM than previously thought. And what was once thought to be "growing pains" in children may actually turn out to be a form of Fibromyalgia. But because most pediatricians are not very familiar with FM, they are unlikely to diagnosis it. Although FM will likely continue to be diagnosed more often in women, we may eventually discover it affects significantly more men and children than once thought. Myth 5: Fibromyalgia is a psychological problem. Fact: Fibromyalgia is a physical disorder with real, measurable biological abnormalities. This myth probably causes the most frustration to Fibromyalgia patients. After years of being told "It's all in your head," patients finally have proof that Fibromyalgia is a very real, physical illness. Research studies have revealed a number of biological abnormalities, including: * Decreased blood flow to specific areas of the brain, particularly the thalamus region, which may help explain the pain sensitivity and cognitive functioning problems experienced by Fibromyalgia patients. * High levels of "substance P," a central nervous system neurotransmitter involved in pain processing. * Low levels of nerve growth factor. * Low levels of somatomedin C, a hormone that promotes bone and muscle growth. * Low levels of several neurochemicals: serotonin, norepinephrine, dopamine and cortisol. * Low levels of phosphocreatine and adenosine, muscle-cell chemicals. Despite the scientific evidence, some medical professionals continue to dismiss Fibromyalgia as a psychological problem, insisting that the symptoms are caused by depression. The fact is that the percentage of FM patients who suffer with depression is no higher than for any other chronic illness. Unfortunately, since it takes an average of 17 years for new research to become part of mainstream medicine, we're probably going to be fighting this myth for several more years. Karen Lee Richards is the Expert Patient, specializing in Fibromyalgia and Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, for HealthCentral's ChronicPainConnection ( She is a co-founder of the National Fibromyalgia Association and was its vice-president for eight years. From 2002 thrugh 2005 she was Executive Editor of Fibromyalgia AWARE, the first magazine devoted to Fibromyalgia and other invisible illnesses.  [report anonymous abuse]
anonymous  June 03, 2007 8:43 AM




 [report anonymous abuse]
Tamme, Carolyn & Judi June 03, 2007 8:56 AM

Do you ladies believe Nature provides any help for fibromyalgia?  [ send green star]
anonymous rem sleep June 04, 2007 12:46 PM

    The Rem sleep issues is one thing Oregon Health Science Univ. was studing. Most people who have FMS also have Sleep Apnea.
Though most people that just have sleep apnea get total relief from a CPAP machine, people with FMS don't.
They put me on CPAP and I couldn't understand what the hype was about. All the Apnea people I spoke with said they couldn't live without it. even took it on vacation. It didn't do anything for me.
They have changed me to a VPAP because of breathing issues with my MS, it forces air into your lungs instead of just holding open your throat as with Sleep Apnea. I still don't get any relief. I sleep better thanks to Valium   [report anonymous abuse]
I just read over this thread July 04, 2007 8:29 AM

I encourage those who suffer from Fibromyalgia to look closely at how the body can benefit from it's own stem cell creation.  [ send green star]
re: November 17, 2007 8:09 AM

I was reading about rosehips and found this...

Rosehips also contain maltic acid. Women suffering from Fibromyalgia are almost always found to be deficient in maltic acid.

 [ send green star]

 November 17, 2007 8:19 AM

Maltic acid....what do we know about it? Why is it necessary?  [ send green star]
 November 17, 2007 8:42 AM

ooops, it's MALIC, sorry

Wiki- Malic acid is a tart-tasting organic dicarboxylic acid that plays a role in many sour or tart foods. The salts and esters of malic acid are known as malates. Malate anion is an intermediate in the citric acid cycle along with fumarate. It can also be formed from pyruvate as one of the anaplerotic reactions.

I typed in malic acid and it's role in fibro and came up with plenty of sites suggesting malic acid and magnesium.

(Yes, I'm a Price junky- guilty as charged)-   In the Nutritional Supplements section it suggests the malic acid and magnesium because they are key for energy production.

This post was modified from its original form on 17 Nov, 8:43  [ send green star]
 November 20, 2007 5:25 AM

We were in Japan several years ago and were discussing this same condition. Several Doc termed in MDS... Magnetic deficiency syndrome... They were treating this by restoring the natural magnetic energy we were meant to have from the earth, but which has been severely diminished. THis is due to several factors, both natural and lifestyle related. We've been working with a number of individuals in this area using Magnetic and Far inFrared sleep systems, which relax the nervous system and increase the REMs stage of sleep, and PiMag Water which helps rebalance the Alkaline PH levels in the body and provide proper hydration for flushing toxins.  Here is a copy of a study done here in the US.

SUBJECT: Tufts Fibromyalgia Study

Magnetic Mattress Pad Use in Patients with Fibromyalgia:

A Randomized Double-blind Pilot Study.

Agatha P. Colbert, M.D.  Clinical Assistant Professor of Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation, Tufts University School of Medicine,Boston, MA 02111, [and others.]

Results:  Subjects sleeping on the experimental mattress pad experienced a significant decrease in pain (p <.05), fatigue (p<.006), total myalgic score (p <.03), and pain distribution drawing (p <.02).  Additionally, these subjects showed significant improvement in reported sleep (p <.01) and physical functioning as

evidenced from the modified Fibromyalgia Impact Questionnaire (p < .04).  Subjects sleeping on the sham mattress pad experienced no significant change in these same outcome measures. Subjects in both the control and experimental groups showed improvement in

tiredness on wakening, demonstrating a placebo effect in this parameter.  Neither group showed any effect on global well-being.


Conclusions:  Sleeping on a magnetic mattress pad, with a magnet surface field strength of 1100+50 Gauss, delivering 200-600 Gauss

at the skin surface provides statistically significant and clinically relevant pain relief and sleep improvement in subjects with fibromyalgia.  No adverse reactions were noted during the 16-week trial period.

 We have hundreds of personal success testimonies using these technologies and implementing sound nutritional support. Due to a lack of space here, I encourage contacting our office for more information.

NRG Wellness Associates
Click here: International Wellness Home Consultants: NRG Wellness .
815 509-5195

"If drugs were the answer, we’d be the healthiest people on the planet!."Dr. Mark McClellan - Administrator of the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services.



 [ send green star]
 November 20, 2007 7:18 AM

That's a very interesting article! A lot of doctors will laugh in the patient's face for sure. I had a doctor tell me that FM is vascular and that getting exercise helps. It is true for me. It did help me a lot (requires pushing through to doing it when it doesn't feel good) .... and as far as deep sleep that is probably why I feel much better when I take melatonin -- the body produces less as we get older and it is the only way I really can get a deep night's sleep.  [ send green star]
FIBRROMYALGIA TIRED March 31, 2008 4:29 PM

I do not suffer from this but a number of my care2 friends do.  I know they find it very difficult to describe this to others.  I thought this post did so very well.  We should all have some sympathy for the people suffering with this malady.

Thank you for your attention, Davida

I wish I were "tired"

Recently, some patients with CFS and FMS have said how frustrating it is to say that one of the main symptoms is being tired all the time.... and to get the response from a healthy person, "Yeah, I'm tired all the time too." The overpowering fatigue can be a truly disabling symptom for people with this family of illnesses, yet it is one of the hardest to make others understand, because "tired" seems like something that everyone goes through sometimes. "Tired" is bad, is good, is frustrating, is a sign of a busy and demanding life.... but "tired" doesn't sound like a disability.

My response is..... I WISH I WERE 'TIRED.' Because I remember what 'tired' felt like, and one day I aspire to stop being Fibro Fatigued and be merely 'tired' like everyone else. I remember the feeling of being tired at the end of a day, and longing for rest or sleep, knowing that if I rested, I would recover from being tired. I remember being tired at the end of a long day, after doing a lot, wishing I could do more but feeling like I'm satisfied that I tired myself out doing a lot. I remember the physical feeling of being tired after a long workout, a hike, playing sports, knowing I could go to my edge and then recover stronger than ever. I remember being tired but being able to push past the tiredness and just drag myself along because I had things I "needed" to do that "couldn't wait." After years of "Fibro Fatigue", I long for the days when I was just "tired".

Tired is......
I'm tired, I can't wait to get into a warm bath and relax.

Fibro Fatigued is.....
I know I should take a bath but I don't have enough energy to walk to the bathroom, turn on the faucet, take my clothes off..... oh, man, I can't even think about it. I'll just sit here achey and sweaty and feel guilty for not being able to take a bath.

Tired is.....
I really want to go to this party, but I'm so tired. Well maybe I'll go just for a little while, and leave early. At least that way I'll see my friends and have some fun.

Fibro Fatigued is......
I can't move. I can't even remember that anything is going on outside my body. I don't remember which day it is, where the party is, anything.

Tired is.....
I'm tired, I'm going to just veg in front of the TV.

Fibro Fatigued is......
I can't handle the noise and stimulation of the TV, it feels like being on a roller coaster ride. I lie down with no TV, no music. If I can't sleep, I just stare at the wall in a stupor.

Tired is....
A yoga class or a brisk walk, some sort of workout, will help me sleep fully. I am tired but I'll force myself to get some exercise.

Fibro Fatigued is.....
I don't have awareness or control over my muscles. If I try to work out, I make jerky movements, slip and fall, get injured.

Tired is.....
I feel like resting. I think I could sleep if I lay down for a nap.

Fibro Fatigued is......
I don't want to rest, there is something I really am enjoying, and then I involuntarily fall into a deep sleep, regardless of what is going on around me.

Tired is.....
I'm looking forward to going to bed, because I will sleep and wake up refreshed.

Fibro Fatigued is.....
I'm already frustrated, because I sleep and I don't feel any better, I don't know how long this will last or when I will be able to function again.

Tired is.....
I'm just relaxing with my thoughts.

Fibro Fatigued is.....
I can't keep a thought in my head. I can't focus on anything and time goes by like I'm in a coma.

On a "good" day, when I am at my peak functioning.... I am Tired.

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Fibromyalgia April 02, 2008 11:38 AM

I just joined this group and want to share the site where I have found the most relevant and practical info. about fibromyalgia. 

I have read some of Devin Starlanyl books on the subject and found "Fibromyalgia & Cronic Myofascial Pain:A Survival Manual" to be very useful.

I also recommend the book "What your doctor may not tell you about FIBROMYALGIA: The revolucionary treatment that can reverse the disease" by R. Paul St. Amand, M.D

The treatment refers to a Guaifenesin ( now been sold as Mucinex) Protocol; to which I have had very possitive feedbacks from many of my chriropractor's patients.

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anonymous  April 02, 2008 11:47 AM

Yes, i am also a victim to FMS, cause that is the way i feel most of the time, I was diagnosed in 2002. I am very clumsy and would always trip over my own feet, in 2000 i had surgery and according to my doctors opinion he feels that was the last trigger to  awaken it. I am glad someone in this group is talking about it. Though still there are people out there that do not believe in this syndrome as it has been called.

This post was modified from its original form on 02 Apr, 11:48  [report anonymous abuse]
I Have Fibromyalgia April 03, 2008 10:05 AM

I have Fibromyalgia since 1991. I also have CFIDS since 1991. The two illness often come together. Not always, though. However, 90% of people who have CFIDS also have Fibromyalgia. Whereas people who have Fibromylgia, do not generally come down with CFIDS also. The CFIDS comes as a package deal with Fibromyalgia 90% of the time, unfortunately. I have 18 out of 18 trigger points. Some people have less, the highest is 18 trigger points. That is to my latest knowledge, it may have changed since I was diagnosed, although I have kept up with current news about the illness. An excellent web site:

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Fibromyalgia has un natural causes April 03, 2008 5:51 PM

If you yourself suffer from it or know someone who does, please explore this thread to find what many of them are and how sufferers may be helped by eradicating those cause(s).

This post was modified from its original form on 03 Apr, 17:52  [ send green star]
 April 07, 2008 8:46 PM

The Natural Way of Fighting Fibromyalgia

by Dr. Rajesh Vishwanathan

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Ribose April 08, 2008 5:47 PM

Has somebody from this group tried RIBOSE supplement?  Would like to know...Thanks

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FMS, Dr Pall, the dominoes January 26, 2014 11:50 AM

The research of Dr Pall links directly into the data and conclusions of the Swedish study by Regland M.D., Ph.D., et al.

They show high homocysteine.

We are on the Dr Pall protocol and it has helped a lot (support for the broken Glutathione system and fixing the broken NO system).

So has taking 20ml ORGANIC Apple Cider Vinegar 3 times a day. I was very skeptical of the whole "acid blood” where you take  “ORGANIC Apple Cider Vinegar“. Also skeptical of  the ideas of “Metabolic Typing" (which is sometimes connected to it).

But I figured that in the Ozarks they have used Cider vinegar for ages so what the heck? Try it and see. I like it anyway (just wash out your mouth after). Some peopel drink it diluted in water as their beverage of choice (like lemon water).

ORGANIC Apple Cider Vinegar has been the only thing to EVER eliminate the horrible painful burning sores we both get - that my wife gets on her face far worse than I get them. These are deep sores, and burn their way out of your body.. I had them on my back for almost 30 year and they are gone now.  These things burn their way out through the skin  - and they exude lymph and you get DARK blood out of them with cooked globs of gooey blood and solid hunks of blood. The liquid they ooze, will burn other peoples skin on contact.  

Note that when we have too much acid in our systems it winds up on our muscles and connective tissue. Excess acidity in
connective tissues is then eliminated via the **lymphatic** system during movement and especially exercise,
with sweating." And when that acidity is ungodly high - out it comes through your skin.

Try sleeping on THOSE things (burning and burning all night long), or just plain living with them. The acid metabolism concept  could also explain why the majority of FMS/CFS/MCS people that I know have absolutely horrible teeth despite extreme care (brushing, flossing, etc) and little or no sugar in the diet.

I (for instance) had been on a NO REFINED SUGAR (and no fruit with glucose) diet for extreme “Reactive Hypoglycemia” for quite a long time when my teeth went.  20+ years without sugar and my teeth began to go all at once after all of that time (teeth breaking on soft rice). No sugars of any kind WITH religious brushing, and yet bad teeth.


 Indecently, once I went 100% organic I lost 50 pounds without doing anything else. I was only mildly hypoglycemic instead of “brittle”. Before that I was 270lbs and could NOT lose weight on an 800 calorie diet plus exercise.   I had the worst case of hypoglycemia that the endocrinologist had ever seen.
Hypoglycemia is supposed to be involved in the Metabolic Typing thing (which I do not understood that well - but find interesting).

Look up Dr Palls work  and his protocol &  Ziem's work and her protocol. They have lived with this illness too. Pall is a professor emeritus at Washing State University Medical College.

PALL is willing to call this a 10th paradigm of medicine and point at POLLUTION.

As for the acid blood thing, I could tell you about my blood test (screaming and running frantically). No blood cells ought to look like that.

(again - not a doctor)

 We are supposed to have a metabolism that is balanced and close to PH neutral. However this is not the case for many sick people, but western docs only bother with life threatening levels of acidosis (they ignore the kind that makes you miserable & call it 'normal'.

The idea with “acid metabolism” as I understand it (a layman) is that when body is toxic/polluted (even polar bears have a high body burden these days), and WORSE when we eat lots of low nutrient, highly processed foods, with fractional grains (white flour etc) – this changes our metabolism. We go acid when we eat all that crappy processed food. Also when we are under mental stress we can go acid.

When this occurs the body winds up with a lot of acids in our connective tissues where it build up. We might even start ot produce arachadonic acid (ouch - my wife did).  The body tries to protect itself by getting rid of the acids through the lymphatic system. It gets overwhelmed, especially if we hurt to much to move around. The lymphatic system has no pump.  It moves when we move.

So the lymphatic system tries to remove the excess acid that we can’t tolerate. Our lymph gets acid in the process (by the way this alone can be quite painful).  This acid lymph becomes sluggish and blocked. We wind up with swollen feet and/or strange doughy looking fat that we can leave a finger print in very easily (or a chair imprint in...).  Llymphy fat does not look the same. Most docs ignore it.

HOWEVER - The largest piece of the lymphatic system lies directly over our small intestine. Our small intestine NEEDS the lymphatic system to work right. When the lymphatic system is all overwhelmed it can’t work right - and so - Enter “leaky gut”…

Leaky gut leads to allergies, IBS, acid stomach, GERDS, and gluten intolerance (etc – etc – etc)
They are a long line of dominoes that start with bad processed foods, petrochemicals and sprays (pollution), and high stress situations.

REMOVE ALL OF THESE even if you have to change your entire life, including your job and where you live. At least that is what works for us. You and you.

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