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Canada: Saudi Arabia Man Accused of Trying to Strangle His Daughter for 'Dishonoring Her Family'

World  (tags: Newfoundland, Canada, Saudi Arabian man attempts honor killing )

- 1820 days ago -
A Saudi Arabia man, Khalaf Alshaek, accused of trying to strangle his daughter for being with a (non-Muslim) man he disapproved of is scheduled to appear in provincial court in St. John's this afternoon.


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Beth S (330)
Monday March 24, 2014, 10:23 am
Honor killings are not confined to Islamic countries. They are becoming well-established in the Americas, too.

"A Saudi Arabia man accused of trying to strangle his daughter for being with a man he disapproved of is scheduled to appear in provincial court in St. John’s this afternoon.

Khalaf Alshaek, 56, is charged with assault and two counts of uttering threats. However, sources tell The Telegram that the assault charge may be upgraded to assault causing bodily harm.He also reportedly threatened to kill the girl and her boyfriend.

He is in Canada on a student visa and is being held in custody until Monday."

Stevie A (10)
Monday March 24, 2014, 11:06 am
I am baffled by the male concept of “Honor" in these cases. In the Arab world this is matter-of-fact behavior. I guess that the “dishonor" comes from the public seeing that the man in charge does not have TOTAL CONTROL over every aspect of a woman's life. STRONG RESEMBLANCE to the TEA PARTY REPUBLICANS, eh?

Helen Porter (39)
Monday March 24, 2014, 12:30 pm
Yep, quite a resemblance!

Monday March 24, 2014, 1:14 pm
Ideologically indoctrinated immigrants cart their unsavoury cultural baggage along with them!

June Bostock (50)
Monday March 24, 2014, 1:37 pm

. (0)
Monday March 24, 2014, 1:56 pm
Why Canada is not charging this man with attempted murder is just example of what we are allowing to happen to our societies.

mar l ene dinkins (264)
Monday March 24, 2014, 5:31 pm

Stan B (123)
Monday March 24, 2014, 5:37 pm
Noted with disgust. Nothing honorable about these creeps.

Past Member (0)
Monday March 24, 2014, 6:06 pm
I think he has a very distorted version of dishonouring his family. His actions dishonour his family and his faith.

Past Member (0)
Tuesday March 25, 2014, 2:18 am
Yet again, I agree with Stan. The extreme Muslims have given ALL Muslims a terrible reputation. Sad but true. And I honestly don't see things improving. The world is watching...

Gene J (285)
Tuesday March 25, 2014, 2:33 am
"Khalaf Alshaek, 56, is charged with assault and two counts of uttering threats. "

Provincial Court. Doesn't sound all that serious, does it. Does it really matter if they upgrade the charges? He's going home with, what? A fine, maybe, without even a directive to not do it again more likely. Saudi Arabia, one of the world's worst "meccas" for women.

Madhu Pillai (22)
Tuesday March 25, 2014, 2:57 am

berny p (23)
Tuesday March 25, 2014, 3:43 am
Why Canada is not charging this man with attempted murder is just example of what we are allowing to happen to our societies.


Gabriele Jefferson (147)
Tuesday March 25, 2014, 8:29 am
noted, shared on fb, twitter, google+. Thx.

Panchali Yapa (26)
Tuesday March 25, 2014, 9:58 am
Thank you

Phil P (94)
Tuesday March 25, 2014, 1:32 pm
Let him, Khalaf Alshaek, uphold the family "honor" by committing suicide since it's his fault for leaving the blessed homeland and for not teaching her properly or marry her off to one of his old buddies when she was 8 or 9 or kept her locked up. Yes, definitely, he's at fault and should bear the consequences and accept punishment.

. (0)
Tuesday March 25, 2014, 1:40 pm
They call it 'Honor Killing" for dishonoring the herself, her beliefs and her family. I hope this girl's father is punished harshly under Canadian Law: because, in some cases across North America, no charges were even laid against the men who successful carried out their 'duty' to kill a 'unclean woman'!

Past Member (0)
Tuesday March 25, 2014, 1:49 pm
Completely out to turn over the demographic to all right wing voters..they have to in order to create their mirror image of an islamic totalitarian state..lil Kentucky Fried Chicken and a Quran and we happenin Mecca for the 3rd world conservatives and a grave yard for the want control and religion gets it for them..that's all they want..blind obedient and stupid slaves for their capitalist Ponzi Scheme world of corruption and resource pillaging at any cost to man or planet.

Sheri Schongold (7)
Tuesday March 25, 2014, 2:07 pm
Unfortunately, the men of Saudi Arabia and all over that part of the world, think they rule everyone and everything. They feel their words are sacred and if you disobey, he feels he has the right to punish or even kill you if necessary so that his name stays unsullied. He should be given a good old judgment of Canada and thrown in jail. He is no longer in Saudi Arabia and he needs to learn that he is not judge and jury of everything that happens.

Nelson Baker (0)
Tuesday March 25, 2014, 2:49 pm
How could it be religious to kill anyone, especially your child.
Reported spam.

Birgit W (160)
Tuesday March 25, 2014, 3:00 pm
June Bostock says it all. Thanks.

Kamia T (89)
Tuesday March 25, 2014, 3:18 pm
If this were NOT a Muslim involved in an honor issue, then the court would be assessing murder charges. In trying to be even-handed religiously, we've bent too far over the other way. If you don't want to live by the rules of the country where you immigrate, then don't come. It's that simple. This guy needs to go to jail for a long time. And hopefully his daughter gets to leave and find a better life.

Thomas M. (0)
Tuesday March 25, 2014, 3:43 pm
Deport the bastard.

Gloria H (88)
Tuesday March 25, 2014, 4:24 pm
deport him after time in prison. Give her a visa and let her live her life as a free woman.

marie C (163)
Tuesday March 25, 2014, 4:58 pm
Patricia there is no honor in his religion This moron has not disgraced his religion this is his religion
You speak real sense Kamia

fly bird (26)
Tuesday March 25, 2014, 7:21 pm
On the basis of 8 lines the man is already 'convicted'..
It's obvious that 'guilty until proven innocent' has no sway here.

Every single day, women are assaulted and battered. Countless women have been strangled, nearly strangled or had an abuser's hands around their necks. This also applies to men.
Physical assault and murder attempts involve all segments of society. violence against anyone is not acceptable. Obviously, threats have to be taken seriously.

The article this post is taken from states, "charged with assault and two counts of uttering threats"...
There are few details. It states the man is "accused of trying to strangle his daughter for being with a man he disapproved of."

I've read of sexual abuse and murder cases involving Rabbis, Jewish men and landlords.

I do not see these posted.

The original article/source (The Telegram) says nothing about honour killings and has a different title, and was not selected to post.

Beth S (330)
Tuesday March 25, 2014, 8:06 pm

As "honor" killing and the shame-based culture of Islam is foreign to us from a Judeo-Christian mindset, this article helps to understand the mindset that promotes honor killings.

"The Murderer's Honor

The story of Islam is a murder mystery. It's not a murder mystery that asks who did it, but when it will end. The detective peering through his magnifying glass at a curly hair caught in the door isn't wondering who did it. He already knows who the killer is. The great mystery is how to make him stop.

This isn't a story about right and wrong. In the terrains of tribe and clan that the murderers come out of, whether they are raised in a village with two goats and a well or a mansion overlooking a major city; Right is power and Wrong is not having power.

A man is right because he has power. A woman is wrong because she doesn't. A Muslim is right because he has power. A Christian is wrong because he doesn't.

When a woman has power and a man doesn't, the man has been dishonored. When a Christian has power and a Muslim doesn't, the Muslim has been dishonored.

There is only one answer for dishonor, death. Kill the one who has dishonored you so that you may feel powerful again. The men with the magnifying glasses will call it extremism, but it's so much simpler and so much more complicated than that.

The powerful need not compromise. They have honor. Those who have no power but do not compromise also have honor. The extremist does not compromise whether in power or out of it. Therefore he always has honor. The extremist is willing to die for the power and honor of Islam.

Islam is never powerless, but is always compromised in some way short of perfect purity.

Perhaps it fails to drive out all the non-Muslims and doesn't force women to cover their eyes. Or maybe it tolerates chess and kite flying. Even the crudest Salafist finds some human norm short of total and complete extremism. He compromises and the seed of that compromise gives birth to a movement that will not compromise even on that.

Each Islamic movement carries within it the seeds of its own extremist counter-movement and that movement too will carry its own seeds of death. The Islamic revolution devours its own children forever for honor's sake.

Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Absolute honor is the search for absolute power. A power so pure that it transcends the human means necessary to achieve that glorious end. A purity so total that it will elevate the smuggled cocaine, the rapes and murders, the torture and the broken oaths, to the golden truth that the ends of Islam justify all its mangled means.

The murderer kills because he wants power. He goes on killing for honor's sake. When the blade slips or the victim pulls a gun, then the murderer skulks off into the night nursing his grudges and pledging that he will return or his children will return or their children, for the sake of his honor, on and on through the ages.

This is what the media calls a cycle of violence, but it would be more accurate to call it the cycle of honor.

The whole thing may have started because the murderer wanted a goat, a gold coin or a wife, but it continues because it is now a matter of honor. A moment ago the murderer only wanted a gold coin, but having failed to obtain it, he will not leave off for all the gold coins in the world. Murder transmutes the gold coin into honor. The motive no longer matters. It is all about the end now.

The more the murderer is resisted, the angrier he becomes. The failure to kill forces him to take refuge in myth. He begins inventing glorious stories of his battles complete with poems and epic battles. There are sacred deaths with drops of blood falling like jewels and doves ascending into the sky. Every man becomes a lion and every enemy a monstrous eater of children. Eventually the story becomes his whole reason for being. It is a tale that is passed down through the tribe until countless of the murderer's descendants derive their identity from the story. Until they are all murderers.

Having been thwarted, the murderer cannot stop. The failure to kill has left him powerless, no better than a woman or an infidel. It causes him to doubt the worth of his religion and his people. It robs life of its sweetness. The only way to heal his trauma is to finish what he started. The only way for him to be at peace is to be at war.

Speak to him of peace and he will not listen, except as a ploy for finishing the unfinished murder. Peace is for the powerless. To desire peace is to admit to weakness. It is to give in to the prosaic mortality of the ordinary life. Before he began to kill, the murderer might have been satisfied with the ordinary life, but it is no longer good enough for him.

Nothing will do but the knife and the blood and the screams.

The murderer will lie about wanting peace, but he will not make peace. To lie in order to kill is honorable, but to live in peace is not honorable. Peace narrows the borders and closes off horizons. What was once a green territory that the grandchildren or great-grandchildren might overrun in a hundred years is suddenly forever lost and forever foreign.

How can he be asked to make such a terrible concession?

You might as well ask the sailor to stay on the land and the explorer to put up his feet in front of the fire. The murderer isn't a mere murderer, he is a romantic at heart, and whether he lives in a mud hut or a tacky palace decorated with giant portraits of himself, in secret he imagines himself a sultan or an emir. And if not him, then his children or grandchildren.

The land he sits on is merely land, he wastes it for the most part. He may write poems about the beloved land, but it isn't the land he loves, but the idea of conquering it, killing for it and dying for it. And when there is no need to do any of the three, then like an amorous adulterer of the soil he goes seeking for other lands to conquer, to kill and die for.

This is his story and the myth that governs his life. He is not a builder. In his part of the world, it is the slaves who build. It is the men who have no power and no honor who work a set schedule, lifting bricks and arranging girders.

Nor is he a farmer, that too is work fit only for serfs. He makes a decent merchant, cheating and being cheated in turn in a ritual mercantile combat. In a pinch he might be a shepherd, wandering the hills aimlessly, and watching his flock nibble the sparse desert grasses down to a wasteland, killing and eating them when it suits him like a little grubby god.

Whatever his profession, he fancies himself a warrior and the kind of war that he prefers is the raid. Village against village. Riders against caravans. Hijacked planes against skyscrapers. If he wins, then he gains honor. If he loses then he gains honor by vowing vengeance, for even the worst of losers can always hang on to his honor by threatening to kill the winners.

And that is where the murders become a mystery, at least to those detectives whose little magnifying glasses can make out the grooves on a thread, but not the distorted rage on a murderer's face. The more they try to convince the murderer to stop, the more he kills. There is a pattern here, but unlike carpet fibers and footprints, it is not one that they can understand.

The men with the magnifying glasses want their lives back. So does the murderer. And the only way he can get it back is by taking theirs. The institution of the feud has lapsed in their world, but it is the defining one in his.

Both detective and murderer are trapped in a cycle, but the murderer has a way out. All he has to do is kill them. The detectives cannot do the same thing. There is no room in their rational world for such a crude solution.

They try to break the cycle with words. He tries to break it with bombs and bullets. And the cycle of violence continues.

Failure goads the murderer. The more he fails at killing, the more he aspires to it. On his tenth attempt he is ten times as motivated as on his first attempt. Like all people he has his ups and downs, but he always keeps on trying harder.

Each time he fails, he tells himself that the game wasn't fair, the other side broke the rules, rigged the contest and undermined him. He spins complex conspiracies of spies and saboteurs in which the mind of the enemy is as convoluted as his, and that only fuels his outrage. How dare his victim plot so cleverly to undermine his own murder! Outraged, he spins his own convoluted plots, playing Wiley E. Coyote to an oblivious Roadrunner who is occasionally baffled to learn that he is alleged to have controlled every major public figure in the Middle East or seeded the Nile with trained sharks.

"Sure," says the murderer. "You didn't expect him to admit it, did you? I wouldn't in his place."

The murderee takes on an outsized importance until he represents every obstacle that the murderer has ever faced in his life. Whatever crimes the murderer commits, he is certain that the murderee has committed even more of them. The murderer's dark side steps out of the shadow and takes on the role of his victim so that the act of murder becomes an act of purification that purifies nothing for the dark forces that the murderer tries to kill are still inside him even while his victim bleeds on the floor.

Eventually the murderee fills the world. Rushdie was only a minor writer until a series of random events caused his name to come to the attention of a shaky Iranian leadership looking for a scapegoat. And then Rushdie became an obsession for the Iranian regime. Rushdie filled their world. Likewise the average Muslim did not spend any time thinking about the Jews, who were always despised, but like most non-Muslims, weren't of consequence. Having conquered their lands and their persons, they could go about ignoring them, aside from the usual thefts, murders and assorted cruelties.

But then the honorless Jews, the sons of apes and pigs, defeated armies far stronger than them. The murderers were robbed of their honor. And when the murderer is Muslim and the victim is non-Muslim, then the honor of the murderer is the honor of the whole Muslim world.

There can be no peace now. Not tomorrow or in a thousand years. Not with the Golan Heights, the West Bank, Gaza, East Jerusalem, the Galilee and the grimier parts of Tel Aviv. Nothing will do but for the murderers to finish what they started, the aborted murder, the unfinished crime and the unconsummated honor killing to end all honor killings. Nothing will do but death.

A murderer will forgive many things. You may kill his son and rape his daughter, so long as the blood price or the honor price changes hands. You may do the same with all of his many relatives and their relatives, as is so often the case in these dirty little wars that are really packs of murderers roaming and raiding, firing at each other and falling back, and then waiting for the mourning women to come out and wail over the bodies of the dead. You may even cheat him as much as you like, for he will probably cheat you worse, even while you fancy that you are coming out ahead.

But what you cannot do is take away his honor.

Do not mock the murderer's gods, for they are his power, or refuse his hospitality, for it is how he shows that he has more than you, or make him feel small and weak. Do not give him charity or show him mercy, for no matter how effusively he thanks you, in his heart he feels the sting of the humiliation that you have inflicted on him.

Though he may smile afterward, he will never forgive you for it, the insult will go on chafing his heart until it overflows with that species of black blood that tastes of bitterness and death.

The House of Saud has never forgiven the House of Washington for helping aid its power. It draws a blood price from it every year, but it cannot rest until the House of Washington falls. So too all alliances with infidels must one day end in betrayal or death. There is no room in the green country of the horizon for two tribes to rule. Nor is there room in the inner palaces of honor with their bejeweled tapestries and arabesque curves for a helping hand. The Sultan and Emir, like Allah, can have no antecedent. Like Mohammed, he must be the final revelation of power over a powerless world.

And the murderer? He cannot sleep. The man he tried to kill has filled his world. Once he wanted gold or goats, but now it is honor he wants.

In his bed, the murderer dreams of killing a man whose who humiliated him by refusing to die. The murderer rolls over and smiles.

Tomorrow, he will kill. Tomorrow, he will regain his honor."

Jhn Wzt (3)
Tuesday March 25, 2014, 8:57 pm
hes lost all his honor tryin to strangle his daughter thts all i have to say in this

. (0)
Wednesday March 26, 2014, 6:03 am
Allan did you not read the article? The man is charged with two counts of attempted murder.

Jamie Clemons (282)
Wednesday March 26, 2014, 1:12 pm
If your "honor" is more important than your children then you have some seriously messed up honor.

James merritt jr (144)
Wednesday March 26, 2014, 5:48 pm

Patsy Olive (0)
Wednesday March 26, 2014, 7:20 pm

. (2)
Wednesday March 26, 2014, 7:51 pm

Sheila D (28)
Wednesday March 26, 2014, 8:26 pm
When emotion rules the actions, we end up having people who think it's "honorable" to kill their own child. Sadly, this man will never feel like he has his honor back until she is dead. People like this should never have children.

Betty Kelly (4)
Wednesday March 26, 2014, 8:37 pm
I don't understand people who value honor more than the life of their child.

Janet G (0)
Thursday March 27, 2014, 1:17 pm

Janet G (0)
Thursday March 27, 2014, 1:21 pm
Awful, just awful.

Mandi T (366)
Thursday March 27, 2014, 1:53 pm

Lynne Buckley (0)
Thursday March 27, 2014, 3:40 pm
Horrible. There is no honour in his behaviour. He is a disgrace.

Myka B (56)
Thursday March 27, 2014, 4:40 pm
Noted - frightening to realize that there are millions of people who believe like this...

Walter F (129)
Thursday March 27, 2014, 9:24 pm
As Gloria stated deport this mad bastard and give the daughter permanent residency.We should never have allowed these mindless sons of allah to migrate to our countries.They have nothing to offer society than bigotry and hatred for all we stand for.

Rosa Caldwell (384)
Friday March 28, 2014, 1:31 am
How very sad. Thanks for sharing.

Eleonora Oldani (37)
Friday March 28, 2014, 3:41 am

To Jess – Are we the only ones who notice and take issue with the “magical” change of title from the original source to the title of the article posted here? Legally this categorizes as fraud - but it doesn't really matter if it serves the higher goal of having yet another go at a religion and its 2 Billion followers.

But it's not the first time that I notice this "title enhancement" in order to direct vulnerable people into a certain direction and onto a certain religion.

**** What really surprises me in all this is that Care2 allows this to continue unabated; it puts a big question mark behind this website. Does Care2 become home to the e-Brigade of the "Sturmfront"? ****

What I find in a way "amusing” is the absolute falsehood being propagated (whether through ignorance or pre-meditated misguidance campaign) that this so-called “honor killings” are foreign to the Judeo-Christian culture.

One must live in an ivory tower (or in a web of hate) if one can ignore that such murder (that’s what it is IMO) were and still are practiced in the Balkan States, Spain, Italy*), Greece (Christian Orthodox), Mexico, Guatemala, Panama, Chile etc. – all Christian states … and all still with a deeply patriarchic structure very much like most of the Middle Eastern states. We should also not forget India in this sorry list.

*) As stated by Cinzia Tani (an Italian writer and journalist who specializes in women's issues) "Until thirty years ago, it was common to hear about honor killings among Italians. But now when a man kills his wife ... or a woman of his family ... it’s a “crime of passion”. The only difference is that back then the homicide of a woman was 100 percent acceptable”.

And it seems to rub off on Israel too as we saw in the protests a couple of years ago in Bat Yam where the crowds shouted at a rally: "Any Jewish woman who goes with an Arab should be killed …" There were kids at the front of the rally who were at best 11, 12 or so years old! And let’s not forget the hotline Lehava and Yad L’Achim are actively operating to thwart contacts between Jewish women and Arab men. One can call there and report such “indecent” events.

And I wonder if anyone remembers the not too distant days when the South of the US still had the race segregation? Why were the white woman who had contact with a Black killed unless naturally she cried rape – then only the black man got killed. Was it because she was (dis)honoring her family with some additional colour?

Did anyone say hypocrites and liars?


As with respect to the honor killings in Canada (13 cases within the last 10 years - that's how wide-spread such incidents are):

Shouldn’t we also be informed about the Fatwa which was issued by the Islamic Supreme Council of Canada in February 2012? “In a rare move, 34 Imams and Islamic leaders from across North America have issued a fatwa to Muslims condemning honour killings, domestic violence and misogyny.” (full fatwa on the Council’s website; Toronto Sun ran an article under

cindy g (9)
Friday March 28, 2014, 4:17 am
I am dumbfounded - the charges should also include ATTEMPTED MURDER!!!!

Eleonora Oldani (37)
Friday March 28, 2014, 4:17 am

A note for those who claim that the Canadian judicial system is too lenient with such murderers:

"Mohammad Shafia, 59, his second wife Tooba Mohammad Yahya, 42, and the couple’s son, Hamed, 21, were each CONVICTED [Emphasis added] on four counts of first-degree murder for killing Shafia sisters Zainab, 19, Sahar, 17, Geeti, 13, and Mohammad’s first wife, Rona Amir Mohammad, 52."

“There is no such thing in Islam that if somebody is bringing disgrace to your family’s honour that you go out and kill that person,” said Imam Syed Soharwardy, founder of Islamic Supreme Council of Canada.


Eleonora Oldani (37)
Friday March 28, 2014, 4:42 am

Personally I think that the Montreal Gazette put the finger right in the middle of the "wound" called "honor killing" (

"The Montreal Gazette published a column in which it said that labelling the murders as honour killing is a mistake because domestic violence against women is ubiquitous and framing it into a particular category would mean distancing oneself from a crime that is all too common. The authors argue that premeditation is put forth as a core component to differentiate honour killings from other types of murders, such as crimes of convenience or crimes of passion. However, recent studies indicate that premeditation is as much a component in other cases of domestic violence and murder as it is in "honour killings."

"Calling the murders "honour killings" accomplishes two goals. First, it makes it seem as if femicide is a highly unusual event. Second, it makes it seem as if femicide is confined to specific populations within Canada and specific national cultures or religions in the world at large. But Canadian statistics prove otherwise. According to StatsCan figures, from 2000 to 2009 an average of 58 women a year were killed in this country as a result of spousal violence. In that same period, 67 children and young people aged 12 to 17 were murdered by family members. In contrast, recent estimates tell us that there have been 12 or 13 so-called honour killings in Canada in the last decade. It does not take a genius to see that comparing 12 or 13 against the hundreds of women and children who were victims of familial violence serves only to frame "honour killing" as peculiar, when in reality it is part of a larger pattern of violence against women."

This is the exact description of the "e-Brigade" operating here on Care2 under the disguise of bringing "news" to the unassuming readers.

I couldn't have said it better.

Beth S (330)
Friday March 28, 2014, 4:45 am
Muslim tells Canadian court that trying to kill his daughter is considered ‘discipline’ in his country
Rosie Gillinghan, Published on March 25, 201, TheTelegram

Saudi Arabian father expected to leave Canada as part of his sentence.

A Saudi Arabian man who tried to choke his daughter told a St. John’s judge that such actions are “an acceptable form of discipline” in his country.

But Khalaf Alshaek insisted he meant no harm to the woman. Instead, he was trying to prevent her from making a mistake and shaming the family by marrying a man without their consent.

“I didn’t mean to hurt her,” the 56-year-old said during his sentencing hearing at provincial court.
“I did it out of love. My heart was in my hands.”

The 56-year-old — who has lived in St. John’s for the past three years — spoke with the help of a translator.
He was arrested Thursday night after a violent outburst, sparked when his daughter told him she wanted to marry a man from this province.

It began at Ches’s Fish ’n’ Chips restaurant on Freshwater Road in St. John’s, where Alshaek, his daughter and the man went together.

When the woman asked her father for approval to marry the man, Alshaek became angry and threatened them before leaving.

What Alshaek didn’t know was that his daughter and the man had secretly wed three days before. According to the facts of the case, read in court, the woman was too fearful of her father to admit they were married.

Shortly after that incident at Ches’s, the family went to a house on Lemarchant Road, where they had been staying. Once there, Alshaek attacked his daughter three times, wrapping his hands around her neck. Alshaek believed his daughter, who had always been quiet and shy, was being disobedient.

The woman, who was left with marks on her neck, feared her father would kill her. She managed to text her husband to call police, who took her father into custody.

Crown prosecutor Danny Murphy recommended a three-month jail term for Alshaek, with a year’s probation. Murphy noted that Alshaek would then be deported and would have trouble getting back into the country with a conviction.

Defence lawyer Rosellen Sullivan explained to the judge that Alshaek came to St. John’s — with his wife and some of his 10 children — to be a chaperone for his daughter, who is attending Memorial University on a scholarship.

She said what his daughter did was considered disrespectful in his country and that his actions were meant as a preventative measure.

“There are lots of cultural nuances in this case that we’re not used to,” she pointed out.

She said Alshaek has the support of the Saudi Arabian government and that she’s been in contact with the government’s legal counsel, which is willing to fly the family back to their home country.

“They’ve offered to give me plane tickets to bring to court to show you their sincerity,” Sullivan said.
She said to ease the court’s concern about the risk of assaulting the woman again, it would be best to sentence Alshaek to time served and have him leave Canada immediately.

“He won’t have an opportunity to see her,” she said.

Alshaek had his family members in court for proceedings. He apologized for what he did, apologized to the Canadian government, to the judge and thanked the lawyers.

He said if he had known his daughter was already married, he would not have reacted the way he did. His actions were an attempt to try and prevent her from making a mistake, he said.

He said in Saudi Arabia, it’s the parents’ responsibility to discipline their children if they see them doing anything inappropriate.

“It’s the duty of a parent,” Alshaek said, through the translator.

Alshaek said he gave up his job as a teacher in Saudi Arabia to come to Canada and help his daughter get a good education.

He broke down crying when he spoke of his love for his daughter.

“I did this out of love for her,” he said.

Judge Jim Walsh reserved his decision on sentencing until today, but told Sullivan that at that time, he wanted her to have proof that Alshaek would be leaving Canada.

He told her to have a plane ticket in court today, along with someone there to personally escort Alshaek back to Saudi Arabia.

Evelyn B (63)
Friday March 28, 2014, 8:55 am
Anyone reading these comments would believe that the people commenting have "inside" news, and that the daughter was killed.
When I went back to the original article, I found that he attacked her, appeared to be trying to strangle her - and the charges were assault and two counts of uttering threats.
I in no way condone such behaviour - but I am absolutely convinced that the most violent comments here are because the man's ethnic & religious background it mentioned .... and had this concerned domestic violence (also far too frequent an occurence in our Western societies) in a non-Arab context, the same people would not have taken such an aggressive stance against the wrong-doer.

"Honour crimes" are, sadly, part of a number of cultures, and within such societies, they are committed by people - usually males - irrespective of their religion., There are also people of Muslim, Christian, Jewish & other religions who are fighting to get the law to condemn such crimes - and all domestic violence.

In this stream, a sadly huge proportion of space is taken up by people leaping on the opportunity to express hate & intolerance under the pretence of supporting law. In reality, I suspect many of those commenting would be happier if the daughter had been killed - because that would "justify" their tone of comments ... in fact, the terms "murder" & "kill" are reflected often.

Let's be clear:
Violence - especially, but not only, against women and girls should not be tolerated, even when it takes place within families. It continues to happen - across Canada, across the US, across Europe as well as in the Middle East, Africa, Aisia, Australasia ....... all around the world.
Cultural traditions and practices that constitute violence change more slowly than we would like - not surprisingly, since even the West sees attitudes of men thinking it is right to discipline their wives & children in violent ways ... and they haven't been brought up in a society that still tolerates such behaviour ... officially.

Using any and every opportunity to "bash" a sub-population is also a form of violence - and encouraging this is encouraging racism.
This is no better - just a different form of violence.

Not so long ago, it was normal in Western cultures to beat children, even using bests or straps to do so, & teachers used to rap us across the knuckles with rulers or hair-brushes. This was called "discipline". It is now forbidden ..... but not entirely vanished.

Racist attacks are not a way to bring around an end to "honour crimes": they have th opposite effect, because people get defensive of their religion, their culture, when faced by what they recognise as "hate".

Work to support those working to change the practices, instead of going on vicious attacks, if you really care about putting an end to extremes of domestic violence - and tackle it everywhere, instead of really only focussing on it when you find signs in a population that you fear/ distrust/ hate ...

DORIS L (61)
Friday March 28, 2014, 10:36 am
This man brings dishonor on himself.

Past Member (0)
Friday March 28, 2014, 11:59 am
This man's actions are dishonorable so how can he judge his daughter.....what an ass....burn him!

Jordan G (37)
Friday March 28, 2014, 1:10 pm
I place great effort and restraint to not attack the underlying religious aspect of all this ... some days it's difficult to separate the two.

I am not a student of the underlying texts, so I have to yield to others and give the benefit of the doubt to the underlying religion.

Make no mistake -- I live in NY and watched the buildings fall ... I'm no apologist for such behavior and will always remember the beheadings in Saudi Arabia and elsewhere ... but I still can't bring myself to condemn the whole for the acts of a minority within the group. Or am I just naive and foolish beyond hope. There are so many apologists on this site; so many supporters who are direct haters of the "targets" of these extremists (if that's what they are, as I am hoping to be the case), that the longer I live the more confused the matter appears.

We are such a meaningless speck in the universe, and here for not even a breath of time. We are at the beginning of a universe's journey destined to last with an almost infinite number of zeros ... yet we attach such grandeur and importance to our place in the history and geography of the cosmos. I don't understand which is more worthy of ridicule -- our horrors or our belief in our importance.

Eleonora Oldani (37)
Friday March 28, 2014, 1:24 pm

Thank you, Evelyn, for putting matters the way they are. As I often note there’s nothing like a story concerning Islam to bring the bigots and racists out from underneath their rocks.

If violence against women – rather the protection and freedom of women – were truly the main concern of some of the posters here then the fact that almost EVER HOUR A WOMAN GETS KILLED IN INDIA would make headlines on Care2 tenfold over. New horrific stories about abuse, acid attacks and femicide in India would be posted by them by the hour!

How much attention does the fact that over 90% (!!) of the "911-calls" in the States are domestic violence related? None.

I believe that it is not worth mentioning that violence in any form and shape against women is unacceptable - for me violence against anyone irrespective of gender, race or religion is unacceptable.

But if it’s not Islam it flies under the radar of the meantime known Islamophobic e-Brigade as I call them.

“Crime statistics and a Gender Scorecard compiled by women's rights activists have put chilling new perspective on an age-old social ill in India: Bride-burning and other "dowry crimes" take the life of a woman every hour.

Despite a rapidly expanding middle class, enviable economic growth and measurable strides in modernization since India's 1947 independence, dowry deaths continue to rise year on year, as does the related plague of "cruelty by husband and relatives" -- the crime defined as torture committed against women in pursuit of more marriage bounty from their parents.

India's National Crime Records Bureau last week reported that 8,233 Indian women were killed in 2012 in dowry-related violence, or nearly one per hour. The incidence of dowry deaths grew by nearly 3% over the previous five years, and torture at the hands of a husband or family increased by 5.4%, with 99,135 cases reported by survivors in 2011.

The scope of the problems is likely to be wider than the statistics suggest, as many women and their parents are reluctant to seek prosecution for fear of scandal that would destroy their other daughters' chances of getting married, analysts say.”

If you feel like reading more details check the “Gender Scorecard 2013” by the Delhi Policy Group ( It reveals a shocking picture with respect to femicide/gendercide and violence against women vetted out by husbands and family members. Pay attention to the ratio health care:women. Scary.

“Equally significantly, the incidence of cruelty by husbands and relatives has also increased year by year, accounting for as much as 43.6% of crimes against women in 2012. It appears that the vast majority of violent crimes against women are committed by their families”.

The other shocking side is documented here "Gendercide in India"

But as mentioned above – this is of no interest as it doesn’t concern Muslims. Sad story of state here on “Care2”!

It is truly disgusting that we consistently see the rampant abuse of noble causes as disguise for the real ulterior motive of going after something else. The latter being here Islam while the former can be anyone of many.

Stay safe!

Roger G (148)
Friday March 28, 2014, 2:02 pm
noted, thanks

Muriel Servaege (53)
Friday March 28, 2014, 2:57 pm
That man shopuld know that laws are not the same in Canada as in Saudi Arabia.

fly bird (26)
Friday March 28, 2014, 3:07 pm
Thanks Evelyn and Eleonora for providing perspective and balance, where it is needed.
Laws don't stop abuse, murder, domestic abuse, or choking people in America, Canada, etc.
Also noted the 'questionable' motives in posting ..

Past Member (0)
Friday March 28, 2014, 3:22 pm
If this happens here, or in Canada, why isn't he treated like someone here or in Canada would be treated for attempted murder?

Rhonda B (99)
Friday March 28, 2014, 4:22 pm
Noted with Disgust. He should be charged with attempted murder.

Eleonora Oldani (37)
Friday March 28, 2014, 5:32 pm

To Jordan - I appreciate your careful comment and believe that Evelyn put it quite right: none of these hateful and violent comments on this site would have been if it weren't for highlighting the religious and ethnic background of the man. None. I'm saying this with great confidence because it's not the first time I'm reading here on Care2 such "brainwashed" comments.

People who have never ever set foot in any of these countries profile themselves as experts on various issues like women's rights, treatment, etc. solely based on certain news channels and videos which are translated "free of charge" by certain organizations and disseminated widely. Would you ask them where any of these hateful countries are on a geo-map they probably wouldn’t even know.

Let there be no misunderstanding: not having been in any other country then one’s own doesn’t disqualify in the least a person from commenting on issues of interest outside the borders. But it doesn’t befit IMO intellectual honesty if one is only willing to see and read one side of the story and dismisses any other information which doesn’t fit into the box as either untrue, hearsay, brainwashed info, et al. That’s what’s happening all too often in such threads. I have the ugly habit of always checking out things first and inform myself before I jump to conclusions. I do this especially if I intend to take part in an informed discussion among adults … and I assume that’s what we all are.

I have put on my profile page the following:
“While there are plenty of bad people who happen to belong to one religion or another, I do not believe there is a person who is bad just because he/she happens to belong to a certain religion, culture or race. I firmly believe that justice is justice - no matter what you look like, where you live, whom you love, or what you believe in; therefore I’ll help you to fight to get your rights and make your voice heard.”

You mention that you saw 9/11 and the building collapsing. Would this atrocity be attributed to Christians, Jews, Hindus or whatever … do you think the same witch-hunt would have started? The same profiling of anyone remotely associated with Islam? With Arabs? I firmly believe not - simply because there are enough atrocities committed by followers of other religions and nobody would even think about condemning their religion and all of its followers. And that’s what I’m standing up against.

I’m sick and tired of reading such hateful crap written by people who don’t even bother to check the source – who are NOT IN THE LEAST bothered that the poster changes the headlines all in order to make it “catchier” and direct the readers … and who are NOT IN THE LEAST bothered that the poster has obviously no or not much respect for the readers (otherwise she/he wouldn’t dare to present fake titles) … and so on – I have seen this in other cases on Care2 too.

I don't want to make it my prolem if people like to be taken for a ride and don’t mind to be manipulated; maybe it suits their views and characters – but I don’t appreciate it if people try to fool me and insult my intelligence.

Stay safe in NY – I remember only nice stuff about my stays there ;-).

Lisa Breault (0)
Friday March 28, 2014, 8:40 pm
how is killing your daughter not leave your family dishonored? this makes me wonder how people can have such little regard for the lives of others. especially in what are considered holy and religious places.

Aurea Aurea Walker (226)
Friday March 28, 2014, 9:44 pm
Thank you so much Eleonora for trying to balance the "skewed" programming we are getting in America regarding Islam. As an agnostic I do not care one iota for any religion, but will respect all religions as long as killing someone's "god" over another persons "god". We women are abused, dishonored, beaten and killed right here in the USA by our very slanted "laws". Women have not had even 100 years of the right to vote and equal pay STILL is UNEQUAL in what a man earns versus what a woman earns. Our own Christian WRONG is strongly trying to take our rights away by denying us an insurance that covers birth control, abortion clinics being shut down with egregious laws, rape is still considered the woman's fault most of the time, domestic violence is on the increase and yet we this supposed "Christian nation" feel we can judge others? Please! By the way one very shocking fact that never gets mentioned is how worldwide 120,000,000.00 baby girls have been killed just for being the "WRONG" gender. That enourmous number is FACT, since 1945 I repeat ONE HUNDRED TWENTY MILLION BABY GIRLS HAVE BEEN KILLED, either at birth or thru termination of a pregnancy. Read president Jimmy Carter's latest book "civil rights"

Evelyn B (63)
Saturday March 29, 2014, 2:42 am
Aurea - you are so right - there are many forms of extreme violence, usually "justified" by belief systems (and I don't mean only religious institutions - the "pro-life" is an example of a belief system that tolerates no other perspective & applies violence to enforce it's own judgement .)

The Facts on Violence Against Women
Violence against women is rooted in unequal power relationships between men and women in society. In a broader context, structural relationships of inequalities in politics, religion, media and discriminatory cultural norms perpetuate violence against girls and women.
Violence against women is a global problem and not limited to a specific group of women in society. However, the forms of violence might be shaped differently based on factors such as sexual orientation, religion, ethnicity, class, age, nationality. Significantly, Immigrant and Aboriginal women are further marginalized due to ongoing racism, which contributes to violence and is internalized by marginalized people impeding their social and personal power.Poverty, isolation from family and friends, language difficulties, and homelessness also contribute to the victimization of the most vulnerable women in society.
In a male-dominant society, male privilege becomes the norm and contributes to the belief and behaviour of men that they have the right to control women.

A few facts: The Facts on Violence Against Women
* In Australia, Canada, Israel, South Africa and the United States, between 40 and 70 percent of female murder victims were killed by their intimate partners
* On average, every six days a woman in Canada is killed by her intimate partner. In 2009, 67 women were murdered by a current or former spouse or boyfriend
* Aboriginal women in Canada are five times more likely than other women of the same age to die as the result of violence
* Across Canada, over 3,000 women along with their dependent 2,900 children are living in an emergency shelter to escape abuse
* 40,200 incidents of spousal violence, which represents about 12% of all police-reported violent crime in Canada, were reported to police[22].
* The majority of victims of spousal violence continue to be females, accounting for 83% of victims[23].
* As of March 31, 2010, there were 582 known cases of missing or murdered Aboriginal women in Canada[24]. 115 (20%) of 582 cases involve missing women and girls. The Canadian Government has been urged to take real action to stop violence against Aboriginal girls and women by United Nations and Amnesty International.
* In Canada, the annual costs of direct expenditures related to violence against women have been estimated at 684 million Canadian dollars for the criminal justice system, 187 million for police and 294 million for the cost of counselling and training, totalling more than 1 billion a year
* 6 in 10 children and youth victims of family violence were assaulted by their parents. The youngest child victims (under the age of 3 years) were most vulnerable to violence by a parent[27].
* Girls are four times more likely than boys to experience family-related sexual offences. The rate of physical assault was similar for girls and boys
Juristat Article — Family violence in Canada: A statistical profile, 2010
* In 2010, 18,710 children and youth aged 17 and under were the victims of police-reported family violence. This represents about one–quarter of all violent offences committed against children and youth.
* In particular, between 2000 and 2010, family members excluding dating partners accounted for 35% of all solved homicides, lower than the proportion (49%) committed by friends and acquaintances.

If these figures are focussed on Canada, it is only because the article refers to the Canadian context , it does not mean that Canada is a particularly violent case - sadly, few countries have a better record ... at least, as far as statistics are available.

Not much basis here to feed Islamophobia ... perhaps those seeking to rant will have to change focus to Aboriginal people - but you can't call for them to be shipped out

Daniel Colombo (51)
Saturday March 29, 2014, 3:09 am
Sad indeed

Eleonora Oldani (37)
Saturday March 29, 2014, 4:27 am

Thanks a lot for your very informative comment, Evelyn. I recently read a lenghty article about the native American women and their unheard plight and believe they carry already plenty of burden.

Maybe people should turn their focus on the e-Brigade who does nothing but incite, spew hatred and fabrication under the disguise of "information" and all this with the seeming OK from Care2 as nothing gets done about this ongoing campaign.

Gene Jacobson's comment of Tuesday March 25, 2014, 2:33 am with his closing line “Saudi Arabia, one of the world's worst "meccas" for women.” comes to mind.

It just goes to show what kind of “fruits” tilted, one-sided and intentionally misguiding posts and headlines can produce (see e.g. the modified headline of the article which caused this thread). And this is exactly the intention.

Gene told me in another thread that he never was in any of these countries and would NEVER think of going to any of them. He too takes his “knowledge” from such sources and forms based on them his opinion and despise (this acc. to his reply in that forum).

And no – I by no means intend to pick on Gene as a person (I know him from other forums as a caring person – this is why I was even more surprised to read him in such manners) but he is a good example of what was said here earlier by other readers as well. The quote from the Montreal Gazette summed it up in a perfect way IMO.

I’m sure the same statistics for America – home to Care2 and to the majority of the readers here – show an equally bleak picture for the US. And not only – surely all countries worldwide don’t fare any or much better.

To stay with Gene’s closing line – are we now to moan about the worst “Vatican” for women – or the worst “Jerusalem” for women or the worst …xyz…. for women … the moment we hear about … yet another 10’000 baby girls killed before they’re even born or another femicide in who knows where?

Do people truly not have the ability to see the game which is played here and elsewhere with their minds? I have a hard time to believe it …

Stay safe!

Gillian M (218)
Saturday March 29, 2014, 9:15 am
Eleanor, Jess & Evelyn, I note that your "civilised" comments totally ignore the truth behind this article.

First of all no-one is saying that abuses by non-Muslims do not happen but the difference between civilised countries and Muslim countries is that the civilised ones condemn this behaviour and treat it seriously and that the Muslim countries ignore it as it is part of their religion. In fact, the EU Court of Human Rights in Brussels has stated that Islam is not compatible with the UN Charter of Human Rights. Islam allows and encourages men to abuse their women and women have less of a standing within Islam than men do.

In Islam, a man can kill his daughter and that is up to him, not allowed in the West. He can beat his wife, seriously injuring her - and? Women/girls who are raped are treated as adulterers and sent to prison (if they are lucky) or killed. Does that happen in the West? And what about the treatment of slaves? There are over 20 million of them in the Muslim controlled Middle East and some 5,000 have died in Qatar helping to build the new FIFA stadium and many more will die building it. What about the maids who are beaten and often die? What about the little boys who are stolen from Africa to be camel jockeys then raped and beaten? What about the little Muslim girls sold to a much older husband/paedophile and often die from internal injuries? What about the little boys who are forced to have sex because prepubescent boys are regarded as female? And, if you look at my avatar, a typical picture of Muslim women/girl suffering, ACID. The men throw it over women and children as well as cutting off their nose and/or ears. And this happens world wide.

You are just pretending to be PC but with no knowledge but a heart full of hate/anti-Semitism, too blinded to see the truth. Islam is a hate filled ideology and the hate extends to ALL non-Muslims as well as females. It is a sad blinkered life you lead.

Gillian M (218)
Saturday March 29, 2014, 9:21 am
The Quran in Sura 4:34 says: Men are managers of the affairs of women because Allah has made the one superior to the other.

"If a husband calls his wife to his bed (i.e. to have sexual relation) and she refuses and causes him to sleep in anger, the angels will curse her till morning." (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 54

Islam not only condoned a form of prostitution in the guise of marriage, it also permits other perverted sexual acts such as sex with minors and the rape of prisoners of war. We begin with the Quran’s teaching regarding marrying and divorcing prepubescent girls:

O Prophet, when you divorce women, divorce them when they have reached their period. Count the period, and fear God your Lord. Do not expel them from their houses, nor let them go forth, except when they commit a flagrant indecency. Those are God's bounds; whosoever trespasses the bounds of God has done wrong to himself. Thou knowest not, perchance after that God will bring something new to pass… As for your women who have despaired of further menstruating, if you are in doubt, their period shall be three months; and those who have not menstruated as yet. And those who are with child, their term is when they bring forth their burden. Whoso fears God, God will appoint for him, of His command, easiness. S. 65:1, 4 Arberry

The waiting period for the divorcing of women who haven’t even menstruated is three months. This means that these women aren’t even women (they haven’t attained womanhood) but are in fact young girls who haven’t even attained puberty! Now a woman can only be divorced if she was first married, so it is clear that this injunction assumes that young girls can be married and divorced and remarry before they reach puberty. Even more, the purpose of this waiting period is to ensure that the wife who is about to be divorced is not pregnant, or if she is to make sure that the true father is known, i.e. that the child is from the current husband, and not a next husband that she may marry afterwards. Thus, this verse presupposes that the Muslim men who are married to prepubescent girls have sexual intercourse with them.

The renowned Muslim commentator Abu-Ala’ Maududi, in his six volume commentary on the Quran, confirms this by stating the following regarding this passage:

"Therefore, making mention of the waiting-period for girls who have not yet menstruated, clearly proves that it is not only permissible to give away the girl at this age but it is permissible for the husband to consummate marriage with her. Now, obviously no Muslim has the right to forbid a thing which the Qur’an has held as permissible." (Maududi, volume 5, p. 620, note 13, emphasis added)

Ibn Kathir wrote:

except those women whom you acquire through war, for you are allowed such women after making sure they are not pregnant.

Imam Ahmad recorded that Abu Sa’id Al-Khudri said, "We captured some women from the area of Awtas who were already married, and we disliked having sexual relations with them because they already had husbands. So, we asked the Prophet about this matter, and this Ayah was revealed…


Consequently, we had sexual relations with these women." This is the wording collected by AT-Tirmidhi, An-Nasa’i, Ibn Jarir and Muslim in his Sahih. (Tafsir Ibn Kathir (Abridged) Volume 2, Parts 3, 4 & 5 (Surat Al-Baqarah, Verse 253, to Surat An-Nisa, Verse 147), abridged by a group of scholars under the supervision of Shaykh Safiur-Rahman Al-Mubarakpuri [Darussalam Publishers & Distributors, Riyadh, Houston, New York, Lahore; First edition, March 2000], p. 422; bold emphasis ours)

The Bible, however, prohibits the raping of captive women and condemns adultery completely.

Gillian M (218)
Saturday March 29, 2014, 9:26 am
Does Islam teach that a woman is worth less than a man? Absolutely. The only debatable point is by what degree.

The Qur'an:
Qur'an (4:11) - (Inheritance) "The male shall have the equal of the portion of two females" (see also verse 4:176). In Islam, sexism is mathematically established.

Qur'an (2:282) - (Court testimony) "And call to witness, from among your men, two witnesses. And if two men be not found then a man and two women." Muslim apologists offer creative explanations to explain why Allah felt that a man's testimony in court should be valued twice as highly as a woman's, but studies consistently show that women are actually less likely to tell lies than men, meaning that they would make more reliable witnesses.

Qur'an (2:228) - "and the men are a degree above them [women]"

Qur'an (5:6) - "And if ye are unclean, purify yourselves. And if ye are sick or on a journey, or one of you cometh from the closet, or ye have had contact with women, and ye find not water, then go to clean, high ground and rub your faces and your hands with some of it" Men are to rub dirt on their hands if there is no water to purify them following casual contact with a woman (such as shaking hands).

Qur'an (24:31) - Women are to lower their gaze around men, so they do not look them in the eye. (To be fair, men are told to do the same thing in the prior verse).

Qur'an (2:223) - "Your wives are as a tilth unto you; so approach your tilth when or how ye will..." A man has dominion over his wives' bodies as he does his land. This verse is overtly sexual. There is some dispute as to whether it is referring to the practice of anal intercourse, which it has been used historically to justify. If this is what Muhammad meant, however, then it would appear to contradict what he said in Muslim (8:3365).

Qur'an (4:3) - (Wife-to-husband ratio) "Marry women of your choice, Two or three or four" Inequality by numbers.

Qur'an (53:27) - "Those who believe not in the Hereafter, name the angels with female names." Angels are sublime beings, and would therefore be male.

Qur'an (4:24) and Qur'an (33:50) - A man is permitted to take women as sex slaves outside of marriage. Note that the verse distinguishes wives from captives (those whom they right hand possesses).

Bukhari (6:301) - "[Muhammad] said, 'Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?' They replied in the affirmative. He said, 'This is the deficiency in her intelligence.'"

Bukhari (6:301) - continued - "[Muhammad said] 'Isn't it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?' The women replied in the affirmative. He said, 'This is the deficiency in her religion.'" Allah has made women deficient in the practice of their religion as well, by giving them menstrual cycles.

Bukhari (2:28) - Women comprise the majority of Hell's occupants. This is important because the only women in heaven ever mentioned by Muhammad are the virgins who serve the sexual desires of men. (A weak Hadith, Kanz al-`ummal, 22:10, even suggests that 99% of women go to Hell).

Bukhari (62:81) - "The Prophet said: "'The stipulations most entitled to be abided by are those with which you are given the right to enjoy the (women's) private parts (i.e. the stipulations of the marriage contract).'" In other words, the most important thing a woman brings to marriage is between her legs.

Bukhari (62:58) - A woman presents herself in marriage to Muhammad, but he does not find her attractive, so he "donates" her on the spot to another man.

Muslim (4:1039) - "A'isha said [to Muhammad]: 'You have made us equal to the dogs and the asses'" These are the words of Muhammad's favorite wife, complaining of the role assigned to women under Islam.

Abu Dawud (2:704) - "...the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) said: When one of you prays without a sutrah, a dog, an ass, a pig, a Jew, a Magian, and a woman cut off his prayer, but it will suffice if they pass in front of him at a distance of over a stone's throw."

Abu Dawud (2155) - Women are compared to slaves and camels with regard to the "evil" in them.

Ishaq 593 - "As for Ali, he said, 'Women are plentiful, and you can easily change one for another.'" Ali was raised as a son by Muhammad. He was also the 4th caliph. This comment was made in Muhammad's presence without a word of rebuke from him.

Ishaq 593 - "From the captives of Hunayn, Allah's Messenger gave [his son-in-law] Ali a slave girl called Baytab and he gave [future Caliph] Uthman a slave girl called Zaynab and [future Caliph] Umar another." - Even in this world, Muhammad treated women like party favors, handing out slave girls to his cronies for sex.

Al-Tirmidhi 3272 - "When Allah's Messenger was asked which woman was best he replied, 'The one who pleases (her husband) when he looks at her, obeys him when he gives a command, and does not go against his wishes regarding her person or property by doing anything of which he disapproves'."

Tabari VIII:117 - The fate of more captured farm wives, whom the Muslims distributed amongst themselves as sex slaves: "Dihyah had asked the Messenger for Safiyah when the Prophet chose her for himself... the Apostle traded for Safiyah by giving Dihyah her two cousins. The women of Khaybar were distributed among the Muslims."

Tabari IX:137 - "Allah granted Rayhana of the Qurayza to Muhammad as booty."

Ishaq 969 - "Men were to lay injunctions on women lightly, for they were prisoners of men and had no control over their persons." - This same text also justifies beating women for flirting.

Tabari Vol 9, Number 1754 - "Treat women well, for they are [like] domestic animals with you and do not possess anything for themselves." From Muhammad's 'Farewell Sermon'.


Gillian M (218)
Saturday March 29, 2014, 9:26 am
The fourth Caliph, who was Muhammad's son-in-law and cousin, said just a few years after the prophet's death that "The entire woman is an evil. And what is worse is that it is a necessary evil."

A traditional Islamic saying is that, "A woman's heaven is beneath her husband's feet." One of the world's most respected Quran commentaries explains that, "Women are like cows, horses, and camels, for all are ridden." (Tafsir al-Qurtubi)

The revered Islamic scholar, al-Ghazali, who has been called 'the greatest Muslim after Muhammad,' writes that the role of a Muslim woman is to "stay at home and get on with her sewing. She should not go out often, she must not be well-informed, nor must she be communicative with her neighbors and only visit them when absolutely necessary; she should take care of her husband... and seek to satisfy him in everything... Her sole worry should be her virtue... She should be clean and ready to satisfy her husband's sexual needs at any moment." [as quoted from Ibn Warraq]

A Yemeni cleric recently explained in a television broadcast what it is that makes women inferior and unable, say, to serve as good witnesses: "Women are subject to menstruation, when their endurance and mental capacity for concentration are diminished. When a woman witnesses a killing or an accident, she becomes frightened, moves away, and sometimes even faints, and she cannot even watch the incident."

During a 2012 talk show on an Egyptian television channel, a cleric slammed Christianity - in part for teaching gender equality: “the Christian religion does not differentiate between women and men, but it confirms their perfect equality: it gives them an equal share in inheritance, it bans divorce, and it bans polygamy.”

The many opportunities denied women under Islamic law, from giving equal testimony in court to having the right to exclude other wives from their marital bed, is very clear proof that women are of lesser value then men in Islam. Muslim women are not even free to marry outside the faith without being killed by their own families.

Islamic law also specifies that when a woman is murdered by a man, her family is owed only half as much "blood money" (diya) as they would be if she had been a man. (The life of a non-Muslim is generally assessed at one-third).

Although a man retains custody of his children in the event of his wife's death, a non-Muslim woman will automatically lose custody of her children in the event of her husband's death unless she converts to Islam or marries a male relative of within his family. Even the rights of Muslim mothers are subordinate to her husband's family.

Contemporary Muslims like to counter that Arabs treated women as camels prior to Muhammad. This is somewhat questionable, given that Muhammad's first wife was a wealthy woman who owned property and ran a successful business prior to ever meeting him. She was even his boss... (although we're sure that changed after the marriage). Still, it is somewhat telling that Islam's treatment of women can only be defended by contrasting it to an extremely primitive environment in which women were supposedly non-entities.

Homa Darabi was a talented physician who took her own life by setting herself on fire in public protest of the oppression of women in Islamic Iran. She did this after a 16-year-old girl was shot to death for wearing lipstick. In the book, Why We Left Islam, her sister includes a direct quote from one of the country's leading clerics:

"The specific task of women in this society is to marry and bear children. They will be discouraged from entering legislative, judicial, or whatever careers which may require decision-making, as women lack the intellectual ability and discerning judgment required for these careers."

Modern day cleric Abu Ishaq al-Huwaini has called for a return of the slave markets, where Muslim men can go to order concubines. In this man of God's ideal world, "when I want a sex-slave, I got to the market and pick whichever female I desire and buy her."

At best, Islam elevates the status of a woman to somewhere between that of a camel and a man.

Muhammad captured women in war and treated them as a tradable commodity. The immutable, ever-relevant Qur'an explicitly permits women to be kept as sex slaves. These are hardly things in which Muslims can take pride.

Gillian M (218)
Saturday March 29, 2014, 9:31 am
In Islam’s Own Writings: Allah and His Messenger’s Extreme Hatred of Women

In the laws of Allah, a women is worth half a man. Women are dirty, vile, evil creatures that must be kept hidden. Following are few examples of example demonstrating women's horrible status and treatment in Islam's own writings:
Muslim Women are Dirty Polluting Creatures

The Quran:

•Sura (2:222) “They ask thee concerning women's courses. Say: They are a hurt and a pollution: So keep away from women in their courses, and do not approach them until they are clean.”

•Sura 4:43 “Muslims, draw not near unto prayer…(if) ye have touched women…then go to high clean soil and rub your face and your hands.” (Muslim women are pariahs and dirty).”

•Sura (5:6) - "...if ye have had contact with women, and ye find not water, then go to clean, high ground and rub your faces and your hands with some of it."

Women are polluting. Men purify themselves following a casual contact with a woman.

Women are inferior, slave to men

The Quran:
•Sura (2:228) - "And women shall have rights similar to the rights against them, according to what is equitable; but men have a degree (of advantage) over them. And God is Exalted in Power, Wise.”

•Sura (4:11) - God (thus) directs you as regards your Children's (Inheritance): to the male, a portion equal to that of two females. (see also Sura 4:176)

•Sura (4:176) “They ask thee for a legal decision. Say: God directs (thus) about those who leave no descendants or ascendants as heirs. ... if there are brothers and sisters, (they share), the male having twice the share of the female.”

•Sura (53:27) - "Those who believe not in the Hereafter, name the angels with female names." (i.e., Angels, the sublime beings, can only be male.)

•Sura (37:149-155) “Now ask them their opinion: Is it that thy Lord has (only) daughters, and they have sons?- Or that We created the angels female, and they are witnesses (thereto)? Is it not that they say, from their own invention, "God has begotten children"? but they are liars! Did He (then) choose daughters rather than sons? What is the matter with you? How judge ye? Will ye not then receive admonition?”

•Bukhari (88:219)
Narrated Abu Bakra: During the battle of Al-Jamal, Allah benefited me with a Word (I heard from the Prophet). When the Prophet heard the news that the people of the Persia had made the daughter of Khosrau their Queen (ruler), he said, "Never will succeed such a nation as makes a woman their ruler."
•Bukhari (48:826)Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri: The Prophet said, "Isn't the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?" The women said, "Yes." He said, "This is because of the deficiency of a woman's mind."
•Bukhari (72:715) - A woman seeks Muhammad's help in leaving an abusive marriage, but is ordered by the prophet to return to her husband and submit to his commands.

•Tabari IX:113 “Allah permits you to shut them in separate rooms and to beat them, but not severely. If they abstain, they have the right to food and clothing” (i.e., Treat women well for they are like domestic animals and they possess nothing themselves. Allah has made the enjoyment of their bodies lawful in the Qur’an.)

•Tabari I:280 “’I must also make Eve (bad word), although I created her intelligent.’ Because Allah afflicted Eve, all of the women of this world menstruate and are (bad word).”)…happy, content…utterly incapable from intellectual weakness…never to give us trouble…

•Bukhari 6:301

("[Muhammad] said, 'Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?' They replied in the affirmative. He said, 'This is the deficiency in her intelligence.'"

"[Muhammad said] 'Isn't it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?' The women replied in the affirmative. He said, 'This is the deficiency in her religion.'" Allah has made women deficient in the practice of their religion as well, by giving them menstrual cycles.)

Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:

Once Allah's Apostle went out to the Musalla (to offer the prayer) o 'Id-al-Adha or Al-Fitr prayer. Then he passed by the women and said, "O women! Give alms, as I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-fire were you (women)." They asked, "Why is it so, O Allah's Apostle ?" He replied, "You curse frequently and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. A cautious sensible man could be led astray by some of you." The women asked, "O Allah's Apostle! What is deficient in our intelligence and religion?" He said, "Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?" They replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her intelligence. Isn't it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?" The women replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her religion."

•Bukhari (62:58) - A woman presents herself in marriage to Muhammad, but he does not find her attractive, so he "donates" her on the spot to another man.

•Abu Dawud (2:704) - "...the Apostle of Allah said: When one of you prays without a sutrah, a dog, an ass, a pig, a Jew, a Magian, and a woman cut off his prayer, but it will suffice if they pass in front of him at a distance of over a stone's throw."

•God reduces one half of humanity to the status of a dog, a pig, a monkey, or an ass Sahih Bukhari – 1.9.490, 493, 498 Sahih Muslim – 4.1039; Sunaan Abu Dawud – 11.2155; Mishkat ul-Masabih – vol 2, p.114, Hadis no.

•Ishaq 593 - "From the captives of Hunayn, Allah's Messenger gave [his son-in-law] Ali a slave girl called Baytab and he gave [future Caliph] Uthman a slave girl called Zaynab and [future Caliph] Umar another." (Even in this world, Muhammad treated women like party favors, handing out slave girls to his cronies for sex.)

•Ishaq 969 - "Men were to lay injunctions on women lightly, for they were prisoners of men and had no control over their persons." - This same text also justifies beating women for flirting.

Muslim women are sex object for men's enjoyment

From Quran:
•Sura (2:223) - "Your wives are as a tilth unto you; so approach your tilth when or how ye will." Wives are to be sexually available to their husbands in all ways at all times. They serve their husbands at his command. This verse refers to anal sex (see Bukhari 60:51), and was "revealed" when women complained to Muhammad about the practice. The phrase "when and how you will" means that they lost their case.
From Hadith:•Bukhari (62:81)
Narrated 'Uqba:

The Prophet said: "The stipulations most entitled to be abided by are those with which you are given the right to enjoy the (women's) private parts (i.e. the stipulations of the marriage contract)."
•Bukhari 7:62:132
Narrated 'Abdullah bin Zam'a:

The Prophet said, "None of you should flog his wife as he flogs a slave and then have sexual intercourse with her in the last part of the day." (Ideally when you flog one of your wives, let her recuperate that day and sleep with your other wives or your slave girls.)

Muslim Men can Capture Infidel Women as Sex-slave Booty

The Quran:
•Sura (4:24) “All married women (are forbidden unto you) save those (captives) whom your right hands possess. “ You can't have sex with married women, unless they are slaves obtained in war (with whom you may rape or do whatever you like). A man is permitted to take women as sex slaves outside of marriage.

•Sura (4:25) “If any of you have not the means wherewith to wed free believing women, they may wed believing girls from among those whom your right hands possess.” In Islam the phrase “ Whom your right hand possesses” means – sex slave.

•Sura (23:5,6) "...who restrain their carnal desires (except with their wives and slave girls, for these are lawful to them..." Again, Muslim men were allowed to have sexual relations with their wives and slave girls.:

•Sura (33:52) “It is not allowed thee to take (other) women henceforth, nor that thou shouldst change them for other wives even though their beauty pleased thee, save those whom thy right hand possesseth. And Allah is ever Watcher over all things.”

•Sura (24:34) "Force not your slave-girls to whoredom (prostitution) if they desire chastity, that you may seek enjoyment of this life. [And here's the freedom-to-pimp card:] But if anyone forces them, then after such compulsion, Allah is oft-forgiving.”

•Sura (70:29-30,35) “And those who guard their chastity, Except with their wives and the (captives) whom their right hands possess,- for (then) they are not to be blamed, ... Such will be the honoured ones in the Gardens (of Bliss).”

A Woman’s Testimony is Worth Only Half of a Man’s

The Quran:
•Sura 2:282 - Get two witnesses, out of your own men, and if there are not two men, then a man and two women, such as ye choose, for witnesses, so that if one of them errs, the other can remind her.” Establishes that a woman's testimony is worth only half that of a man's in court (there is no "he said/she said" gridlock in Islam).

From the Hadith:
•Bukhari (5:59:462) - The background for the Qur'anic requirement of four witnesses to adultery. Muhammad's favorite wife, Aisha, was accused of cheating [on her polygamous husband]. Three witnesses corroborated the event, but Muhammad did not want to believe it, and so established the arbitrary rule that four witnesses are required.

It is virtually impossible for raped women to prove it under Islamic law (Sharia). If the man claims that the act was consensual sex, there is very little that the woman can do to refute this. Islam places the burden of avoiding sexual encounters of any sort on the woman.

Brutal Punishment For Women

•Sura 4:15 - Lewd women should be punished with life imprisonment until death: “If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, Take the evidence of four (Reliable) witnesses from amongst you against them; and if they testify, confine them to houses until death do claim them, or God ordain for them some (other) way.”

But men can get away with the same crime if they simply repent:
•“If two men among you are guilty of lewdness, punish them both. If they repent and amend, Leave them alone; for God is Oft-returning, Most Merciful." (Koran 4:16)

Fewer seats for women in Allah's Paradise

Islamic Scriptures inform us that most Muslim women will go to hell.

The Quran:

Sura (37:22-23) “Those who "did wrong" will go to hell, and their wives will go to hell with them (no matter how they behaved).”

From Hadith:
•Bukhari (2:28) - Women comprise the majority of Hell's occupants. This is important because the only women in heaven ever mentioned by Muhammad are the virgins who serve the sexual desires of men. (A weak Hadith, Kanz al-`ummal, 22:10, even suggests that 99% of women go to Hell).

Narrated Ibn 'Abbas:

The Prophet said: "I was shown the Hell-fire and that the majority of its dwellers were women who were ungrateful." It was asked, "Do they disbelieve in Allah?" (or are they ungrateful to Allah?) He replied, "They are ungrateful to their husbands and are ungrateful for the favors and the good (charitable deeds) done to them. If you have always been good (benevolent) to one of them and then she sees something in you (not of her liking), she will say, 'I have never received any good from you."

•"Among the inmates of Heaven women will be the minority" (Sahih Muslim 36: 6600)

•"I (Mohammed) have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-Fire were women...[because] they are ungrateful to their husbands and they are deficient in intelligence" (Sahih Bukhari: 2:18:161; 7:62:125, ).

Narrated 'Abdullah bin Abbas:

...The Prophet replied, "I saw Paradise and stretched my hands towards a bunch (of its fruits) and had I taken it, you would have eaten from it as long as the world remains. I also saw the Hell-fire and I had never seen such a horrible sight. I saw that most of the inhabitants were women." The people asked, "O Allah's Apostle! Why is it so?" The Prophet replied, "Because of their ungratefulness." It was asked whether they are ungrateful to Allah. The Prophet said, "They are ungrateful to their companions of life (husbands) and ungrateful to good deeds. If you are benevolent to one of them throughout the life and if she sees anything (undesirable) in you, she will say, 'I have never had any good from you.' "

The Tyranny of Men over Women

The Quran:
•Sura (24:31) - "And say to the believing women that they cast down their looks and guard their private parts and do not display their ornaments except what appears thereof, and let them wear their head-coverings over their bosoms, and not display their ornaments except to their husbands or their fathers, or the fathers of their husbands, or their sons, or the sons of their husbands, or their brothers, or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their women, or those whom their right hands possess, or the male servants not having need (of women), or the children who have not attained knowledge of what is hidden of women; and let them not strike their feet so that what they hide of their ornaments may be known." The woman is not only supposed to cover herself, except with relatives, but to look down, so as to avoid making eye-contact with men.

•Sura (33:59) – “O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks (veils) over their bodies (when outdoors). That is most convenient that they should be known and not molested.”

•Sura (24:60) “Such elderly women as are past the prospect of marriage,- there is no blame on them if they lay aside their (outer) garments, provided they make not a wanton display of their beauty: but it is best for them to be modest: and God is One Who sees and knows all things.”

Sura (33:32-33) “O Consorts of the Prophet! ... stay quietly in your houses, and make not a dazzling display, like that of the former Times of Ignorance” (i.e., Muhammad's wives should stay in their houses)

•Sura (33:30) “O Consorts of the Prophet! If...any of you are devout, obedient, and submissive in the service to Allah and His Messenger, and does good, to her shall We grant her reward twice. We have prepared for her a generously rich provision.”

•Sura (33:53) “And when ye ask (his ladies) for anything ye want, ask them from before a screen: that makes for greater purity for your hearts and for theirs. Nor is it right for you that ye should... marry his [Muhammad's] widows after him at any time. Truly such a thing is in God's sight an enormity.” (i.e., Nobody can marry Muhammad's widows after he is dead.)

•Sura(33:54) “You must not speak ill of God’s apostle, nor shall you ever wed his wives after him; this would be a grave offense in the sight of Allah.” The great adulator/fornicator condemned his wives to a life of loneliness.

From the Hadith:
•Bukhari (6:321) - Muhammad is asked whether it is right for a young woman to leave her house without a veil. He replies, "She should cover herself with the veil of her companion."

•Bukhari (60:282) - After Muhammad issued the command (Sura 24:31) for women to cover themselves, the women responded by tearing up sheets to cover their faces.

Narrated Safiya bint Shaiba:

'Aisha used to say: "When (the Verse): "They should draw their veils over their necks and bosoms," was revealed, (the ladies) cut their waist sheets at the edges and covered their faces with the cut pieces."
•Abu Dawud (2:641) - The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: Allah does not accept the prayer of a woman who has reached puberty unless she wears a veil.

•Bukhari (52:250) - [The Prophet said] "It is not permissible for a man to be alone with a woman, and no lady should travel except with a Muhram (i.e. her husband or a person whom she cannot marry in any case for ever; e.g. her father, brother, etc.)." - Neither is a woman allowed to travel by herself.

Narrated Ibn Abbas:

That he heard the Prophet saying, "It is not permissible for a man to be alone with a woman, and no lady should travel except with a Muhram (i.e. her husband or a person whom she cannot marry in any case for ever; e.g. her father, brother, etc.)." Then a man got up and said, "O Allah's Apostle! I have enlisted in the army for such-and-such Ghazwa and my wife is proceeding for Hajj." Allah's Apostle said, "Go, and perform the Hajj with your wife."


The Quran:

•Sura (4:3) - (Wife-to-husband ratio) "Marry women of your choice, Two or three or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or (a captive) that your right hands possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice. “

•Sura (4:129) - "Ye are never able to be fair and just as between women, even if it is your ardent desire" (but don't let that stop you, husbands, because your needs come first anyway).

•Sura (4:20) “And if ye wish to exchange one wife for another and ye have given unto one of them a sum of money (however great), take nothing from it. Would ye take it by the way of calumny and open wrong?”
(You can change your wives. Islamic wife-swapping requires saying "talaq" three times to one of the four wives, and replacing her with another wife.)

•Sura (65.4) You can marry (and divorce) little girls who have not yet reached menstruation age. This is Allah teaching of pedophilia allowing Muslim men to rape young Muslim baby girls.

“And those of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the 'Iddah (prescribed period), if you have doubts (about their periods), is three months, and for those who have no courses [(i.e. they are still immature) their 'Iddah (prescribed period) is three months likewise, except in case of death] . And for those who are pregnant (whether they are divorced or their husbands are dead), their 'Iddah (prescribed period) is until they deliver (their burdens), and whosoever fears Allah and keeps his duty to Him, He will make his matter easy for him.”

Following is a famous fatwa by Ayatollah Khomeini that defines sura 65.4

"A man can marry a girl younger than nine years of age, even if the girl is still a baby being breastfed. A man, however is prohibited from having intercourse with a girl younger than nine, other sexual acts such as foreplay, rubbing, kissing and sodomy is allowed. A man having intercourse with a girl younger than nine years of age has not committed a crime, but only an infraction, if the girl is not permanently damaged. If the girl, however, is permanently damaged, the man must provide for her all her life. But this girl will not count as one of the man's four permanent wives. He also is not permitted to marry the girl's sister."

Wives as slaves:
•Sura (66:5) - "Maybe, his Lord, if he divorce you, will give him in your place wives better than you, submissive, faithful, obedient, penitent, adorers, fasters, widows and virgins"

(A disobedient wife can be replaced. A man can only have up to four wives, but he can rotate as many women as he pleases in and out of the lineup.)

From the Hadith:

•Bukhari (62:2)
Narrated 'Ursa:
that he asked 'Aisha about the Statement of Allah: 'If you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly with the orphan girls, then marry (other) women of your choice, two or three or four; but if you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or (the captives) that your right hands possess. That will be nearer to prevent you from doing injustice.' (4.3) 'Aisha said, "O my nephew! (This Verse has been revealed in connection with) an orphan girl under the guardianship of her guardian who is attracted by her wealth and beauty and intends to marry her with a Mahr less than what other women of her standard deserve. So they (such guardians) have been forbidden to marry them unless they do justice to them and give them their full Mahr, and they are ordered to marry other women instead of them."

•Bukhari (5:268) - "The Prophet used to visit all his wives in a round, during the day and night and they were eleven in number." I asked Anas, "Had the Prophet the strength for it?" Anas replied, "We used to say that the Prophet was given the strength of thirty men." Muhammad had special rules that allowed him at least eleven wives. (His successors had more than four wives at a time as well.)

•Bukhari (62:6) - "The Prophet used to go round (have sexual relations with) all his wives in one night, and he had nine wives."

•Bukhari (77:598) - "Allah's Apostle said, "No woman should ask for the divorce of her sister (Muslim) so as to take her place, but she should marry the man (without compelling him to divorce his other wife)"

Narrated Abu Huraira:
Allah's Apostle said, "No woman should ask for the divorce of her sister (Muslim) so as to take her place, but she should marry the man (without compelling him to divorce his other wife), for she will have nothing but what Allah has written for her." Polygamy is firmly established in the Islamic tradition.


The Quran:
•Sura (4:34) - "Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great."

According to Islamic law, a husband may strike his wife for any one of the following four reasons:

- She does not attempt to make herself beautiful for him (i.e. "let's herself go")
- She refuses to meet his sexual demands
- She leaves the house without his permission or a "legitimate reason"
- She neglects her religious duties
Any of these are also sufficient grounds for divorce.

From the Hadith:
•Muslim (4:2127) - Muhammad struck his favorite wife, Aisha, in the chest one evening when she left the house without his permission. Aisha narrates, "He struck me on the chest which caused me pain."

•Bukhari (7:72:715) - A woman came to Muhammad and begged her to stop her husband from beating her. Her skin was bruised so badly that she it is described as being "greener" than the green veil she was wearing. Muhammad did not admonish her husband, but instead ordered her to return to him and submit to his sexual desires.

•Abu Dawud (2141) - "Iyas bin ‘Abd Allah bin Abi Dhubab reported the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) as saying: Do not beat Allah’s handmaidens, but when ‘Umar came to the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) and said: Women have become emboldened towards their husbands, he (the Prophet) gave permission to beat them. Then many women came round the family of the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) complaining against their husbands. So the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) said : Many women have gone round Muhammad’s family complaining against their husbands. They are not the best among you." At first, Muhammad forbade men from beating their wives, but he rescinded this once it was reported that women were becoming emboldened toward their husbands. Beatings are sometimes necessary to keep women in their place.

•Abu Dawud (2142) - "The Prophet said: A man will not be asked as to why he beat his wife."

Allah despises women, both Muslim and infidel, with such a deep hatred and loathing that one would wonder why he even bothered to create women. He could just create bisexual men with reproductive organs.

Eve was created from the rib of Adam but all of humankind is created from the womb of women. Women therefore deserve equal, if not greater, respect and right than men in society. Reducing women to a vile, psychologically impaired and inferior being to men is a criminal injustice against women's natural place in society. Muhammad a sex-crazed brutal criminal engendered 1400 years of repression and degradation of billions of mothers and daughters.

So vile, depraved, unjust and deplorable is the position and treatment of women in Islamic scriptures and teachings.

Gillian M (218)
Saturday March 29, 2014, 9:32 am
So Eleanora, jess & Evelyn, the best that you can expect is Muslim hell!

Aurea Aurea Walker (226)
Saturday March 29, 2014, 12:39 pm
@ Gilliam M - you certainly know the Koran, admirable indeed. Do you also know the Torah and the bible as well? There are as many contemptible verses in both on keeping women down. Let us not go back to the past, the Catholic Church still will NOT allow women to being anything other than "nuns". Actually in many ways I far more respect nuns than I do priest. I was raised as a Roman Catholic and know all to well their "ways" thanks to this knowledge about the RCC I become agnostic. But your quoting of the Koran so assiduously does NOT make ALL Muslims evil anymore than the Catholic Churches pedophile priests. What you are promoting is hate and is not only highly bigoted, but it shows your agenda. Hate mongering is just simply wrong, no matter which religous or political agenda you may have. By the way Gilliam I will thank you for affirming to myself why I am an agnostic!

barbara C Horban (56)
Saturday March 29, 2014, 1:03 pm
Disturbing to say the least. Noted

Kenneth Davies (0)
Saturday March 29, 2014, 1:48 pm

Gillian M (218)
Saturday March 29, 2014, 1:54 pm
Aurea. yes I do but the difference is that they are no longer used and women actually had rights which were protected. For example, a woman could be raped and the perpetrator punished instead of the woman. However, many laws are about getting on with each other and protecting the weak. Eg a farmer had to leave the wheat in the corner of his field and gleanings for the poor to harvest. I can't see that in the Koran.

Also, you may not question or discuss the Koran but there is a lot of commentary and discussion on both the Old and the New Testament and interpretations made eg often incorrectly quoted is an eye for an eye meaning that one should physically take an equivalent. No, it means financial compensation.

As for growing up as a Catholic, my sympathies. In Ireland they were cruel and abusive and known to be. To me that is a version of Christianity that was deliberately designed to frighten and control the illiterate working class people which was male dominated. Even the teaching that it was started by Jesus was a lie, it came about after a schism with the Greek Orthodox church and, at one point, had 3 popes! The Coptic Christians in the Middle East are far older. However, as they are being massacred/ethnically cleansed by Muslims without anyone speaking out for them or doing anything then their versions will disappear.

As for whether or not to believe in any religion, that is down to personal choice and is allowed to us under democracy and not under the koran.

Aurea, additionally, you fall into the normal trap of assuming that by talking about Islam that I am talking about all Muslims and NOWHERE have I said that nor have I ever said it. It is strange that one can condemn Christians and Jews without being called a bigot or racist but one cannot condemn a religion without it. However, the point is that all Muslims follow the koran, there is no other way of being a Muslim. The Islamists/extremists do jihad etc but the moderates do not speak out. Dr Jasser asked moderate Muslims to join him in a demonstration to change the koran and he stood there by himself, no-one came.

Saturday March 29, 2014, 2:11 pm
This one individual is nothing but a low-life jerk like others who use religion to justify their dastardly deeds. What a total insult to their creator and their religion.. Thanks for sharing.

Saturday March 29, 2014, 2:15 pm
Oops....left this out.....(own interpretation of their religion)

Eleonora Oldani (37)
Saturday March 29, 2014, 3:19 pm

The reply which Gillian puts in confirms to the letter what I said in my comment of Saturday March 29, 2014, 4:27 am – it seems she has been assigned to the weekend shift …

From my referenced posting:
“Maybe people should turn their focus on the e-Brigade who does nothing but incite, spew hatred and fabrication under the disguise of "information" and all this with the seeming OK from Care2 as nothing gets done about this ongoing campaign. Do people truly not have the ability to see the game which is played here and elsewhere with their minds? I have a hard time to believe it …”

It’s despicable how she twists in her 3rd paragraph facts and throws all kind of incidents in one basket, stirs it and serves it as “this is Islam”. Why does she believe that readers are so stupid and/or gullible and don’t see through her tactics?

With such a remark “And, if you look at my avatar, a typical picture of Muslim women/girl suffering, ACID” she just assumes that everybody is as ignorant as she seemingly is … or pretends to be … and has no knowledge whatsoever of what’s happening on the sub-continent and all the way over to Cambodia in this respect. This is not to negate that acid attacks occur in Muslim countries too – it’s just to show one more time how bigoted, one-sided she is and what kind of an agenda the whole “e-Brigade” of which she is a member follows.

Simply pathetic.

Her last paragraph in her comment of Saturday March 29, 2014, 9:15 am before the copy-paste frenzy starts is the icing on the cake and such a classical case of projection! Not to forget the décor she throws in - the good old anti-Semitic accusation although I for one don’t understand what this should serve. Truly a sad and sorry case.

She is moving further from hate-mongering and incitement to mud-slinging aimed at participants in the forum in the most despicable and disgusting and certainly unacceptable manner.

Since Care2 does not seem to intend to do anything to stop this hate-brigade I therefore address Gilian’s employer(s) and advise them to be less generous with their paycheck. Gillian is being over-zealous, cluttering the forum with stuff nobody reads and, therefore, turning most of us here against the cause she is hired to advocate – namely bash and vilify Islam and in the process 2 Bio people.

"Her" postings (or rather what has been given to her and appears in countless forums) with Sura, Ahadith and narrations make any Al Azhar scholar as well as Daniel Pipes or Jihad Watch look like novices in comparison who still are in kindergarten.

We have to thank Gillian for giving such a self-explanatory example and confirming to the letter what has been said in this forum before by Evelyn, Jess, Aurea and myself!

Gillian M (218)
Saturday March 29, 2014, 3:43 pm
Eleanor, of course you are going to pretend that the truth about Islam is hatred, what else do you expect from an indoctrinated Muslima? It's a shame that you have so abused by the males in her family and the imams etc that you have to believe the rubbish that the koran is.

I am truly sorry for your suffering and abuses which is what islam is about.


Gillian M (218)
Saturday March 29, 2014, 3:52 pm
Mohammed was an untrustworthy bandit who lied to a tribe of Jews and by doing so slaughtered all the males including the babies. He then raped the women immediately before passing them around. He was a paedophile, an abuser, a necrophiliac, he had to rape his dead aunt's body because he was so perverted he had to commit incest! Mohammed couldn't even produce a religion, he had to take chunks of it from Judaism and Christianity to put together some rubbish so that he could create a whole religion dedicated to his sexual desires. Should a woman not be available then the moon god told him to have her.

Mohammed was psychotic and sex mad, a truly admirable example of a prophet!

Muslim men believe that it is acceptable to abuse women. My avatar is of a Muslim woman and her daughter who was discarded by her husband after he poured acid all over them, a Muslim male typical behaviour. Their love shines for each other shines out in this picture. Then there were the men who poured acid all over a little boy and girl because they said hello to each other. The parents were too frightened to bury their babies who must have died an agonising death. But Eleanora, sadly, has been so indoctrinated that she believes that this is acceptable. I am so sorry that she has to believe this.


Gillian M (218)
Saturday March 29, 2014, 3:57 pm
If you want to visit a nation state that supports apartheid law to the absolute, then welcome to Saudi Arabia. Yes, in the land of Saudi Arabia not one single Buddhist temple, Christian church, Hindu temple, and other non-Muslim faiths, are tolerated.

Of course, Saudi Arabia is not alone in supporting apartheid Islamic Sharia law but to make matters worse, this nation is exporting terrorism, Islamist Salafi indoctrination and funding educational institutions that sprout hatred.

Egypt is following Saudi by its ethnic cleansing of Christians by murder and forced conversions after raping little girls and this follows the previous cleansing of Jews. There are less than 200 left in Egypt. The ethnic cleansing of Christians happens across all of the Muslim controlled Middle East. Then there are the over 20 million slaves that are not mentioned, the forced marriages of little girls as well as the girls put into prostitution by being "married" for one or two days. The perfect pervert religion.

Eleonora Oldani (37)
Saturday March 29, 2014, 4:06 pm

As Gillian loves to throw whatever negative, vile and cruel things she can find or is given into the corner of Islam let me just for the record pick one of the most heinous crimes – acid attacks.

80 % of all acid attacks are against women and are revenge acts out of jealousy, because a man has been refused, not enough dowry was paid or as punishment for whatever. From Afghanistan all the way over to and including Cambodia stretches what is called the “Acid Belt”. Unfortunately here too India is the absolute leader.

This notwithstanding Italy has unfortunately reached “fame” within Europe to be the country with the highest acid attacks. It used to be a common method by the Mafia and the Comorra to bring members in line or to punish them and to keep the villagers mouths tightly closed when the police came/comes for investigations. Recently it has become not only a tool of those organized criminals but it has spread. In April 2013 a 35 yrs old women (lawyer) was attacked in Pesaro and in May 2013 three cases of acid attacks where reported alone in Vicenza. All three victims were women between 30 and 35 years old.

In Switzerland the sale of acid is strictly controlled and labeled “poison class 5” which requires a permit from the authorities to buy and even then it is strictly controlled what for it is used. Thanks to these tight controls (and hopefully also because we evolved as a society) acid attacks have (to the best of my knowledge) not occurred over the last 35 years.

Although in acid attacks women are usually the victims - in Cambodia, it is reported that these attacks are mostly carried out by wives against their husbands’ lovers.

In Columbia acid attacks are on a steady rise – alone from 2009 to 2011 250 women were attacked and the report for 2011 was already outpacing these numbers.

Yes, Gillian in her usual truthfulness stated correctly that acid attacks are a “Muslim” thing … Q.E.D.

Eleonora Oldani (37)
Saturday March 29, 2014, 4:14 pm

To Gillian - You're simply sick beyond cure and whatever remains of a brain were left have evaporated having been subjected to excessive heat of hatred for too long. Therefore, there is nothing I can help you with neither can I think of anything to say to you any further.

May God, HaShem, Allah and the Great Spirit help you.

Gillian M (218)
Saturday March 29, 2014, 6:13 pm
Eleonora quotes a couple of cases but she should read the truth, try below to see how blind Muslims choose to be especially the last one article. I have seem so many articles and pictures of suffering Muslim women & children and do what I can. It is sad that a Muslima chooses to pretend that it isn't happening to her sisters.

Violent Crime Against Afghani Women Hits Record Levels

As the Muslim Population Increases in the UK Acid Attacks on Women Soar

Special Report #4: The Muslim Women who have been Victims of Acid Attacks

Epidemic of acid-attacks on Islamic women

Acid Attack Victim Fakhra Yunus Commits Suicide

Acid Attacks: Just a Culture Thing or Just Islamic?

"Those who have called in to my radio show to debate me on Islam or the dozens whom I’ve met at lectures and speeches who bother actually to confront me, always say the same thing; “Everything you talk about that is bad is not Islam, that’s not Islam, it’s a cultural thing, it goes on throughout the world in many cultures”.

Well, they are somewhat correct, the things I speak about, Sharia mostly, does go on throughout various parts of the world. The problem is regardless of where it occurs, the ‘culture’ is 99.9% of the time Islamic."

Eleonora Oldani (37)
Saturday March 29, 2014, 11:57 pm
Reading difficulties anyone?

I wrote "... and has no knowledge whatsoever of what’s happening on the sub-continent and all the way over to Cambodia in this respect. This is not to negate that acid attacks occur in Muslim countries too – it’s just to show one more time how bigoted, one-sided she is and what kind of an agenda the whole “e-Brigade” of which she is a member follows."

The sub-continent and all the way over to Cambodia includes a couple of Muslim countries. I even explicitly mention that it does happen in Muslim countries - BUT it is NOT exclusive to Muslim societies ... and this doesn't befit Gillian's campaign for which she is paid.

So ... what does she do? She continues anyway with her lies and writes on top of it ... "chooses to pretend that it isn't happening". At the end she makes a double Rittberger in order to be able to continue with her hateful vitriol totally ignoring that the absolute majority of acid attacks occur in India among the Hindu population. But hey! Again ... it doesn't suit her goal.

The paycheck must really be handsome.

I rest my case as I trust that readers are very much able and willing to see this ugly pattern witch evolves on this and similar threads here on Care2 all in a concerted effort to do anything to pin all evil of this world on a specific religion and its members in order to dehumanize and daemonize them.

It is truly a shame that such a good website is not immune against the hijacking by these sorry excuses of human beings.

And it's highly questionable that nothing gets done to stop this hate campaign!

Eleonora Oldani (37)
Sunday March 30, 2014, 12:17 am

A quick look at what's available to the public (those without an agenda) confirms my previous postings in this regard:


Evelyn B (63)
Sunday March 30, 2014, 4:01 am
"Sharia does go on" is like saying "law does go on" - rather demonstrates the lack of knowledge and the way pre-conditioned hate drives some of the comments above.

By the way, Aurea - don't be fooled by Gillian's extensive quoting from the Quran - she's just copying and pasted whole sections from Islamophobic website pages (without giving any credit to the sources ... which might flag the bias). These sites do a careful filter to pull together quotes to make their point - and equally carefully avoid any sura tha might give any other picture than intolerance. One could do the same with the Bible or the Torah ... if one were blindly determined to damn those who follow Judaism or Christianity.

Gillian M (218)
Sunday March 30, 2014, 4:37 am
Eleonara having a paddy/temper tantrum? Making lots of accusations but no substance. It is clear that I am saying that the acid throwing is not confined to Muslims but the abuses on the vulnerable is performed mostly by Muslims.

I am so disgusted with a female who does not show any sympathy for the suffering of female Muslims and children but tries to deny it. I assume that this loss of caring is because she has a male threatening her because no decent person would do so. But then Muslims/Muslimas don't show any compassion for the people that they abuse.

Gillian M (218)
Sunday March 30, 2014, 4:42 am
Evelyn, the quotes are easier to copy and paste than for me to go through the koran clutching a bucket and taking anti-nausea drugs. They are from a really racist site, the religionofpeace which is written by Muslims and ex-Muslims.

I clearly understand the ramblings of a lying, untrustworthy paedophile but it is interesting that you don't.

I remember the story where Robert Spencer (an ex-Muslim) challenged an imam to a discussion of Islam on radio. The imam refused because he claimed that Robert had read the koran! Duh?

Gillian M (218)
Sunday March 30, 2014, 4:56 am
Eleonora, Wiki is not a source to quote from because, for all we know, you wrote the entry.

Evelyn, try something new to make accusations from. I can also quote from the Torah and the bibles but the difference is something I have already covered and you have not read or understood. I will write the explanation in a simpler fashion for you - the Torah and the bibles have been read and challenged and is still challenged for understanding. The koran may not be challenged, it has to stay as it is and any early part which has been superseded by hateful statements are put to one side. In other words, all that is vile is that which Muslims must follow. In fact, you start with the word, Islam, which means submission and that is to Allah. However, as we know that Allah was a moon god chosen by Mohammed from some 360 gods, he is an idol and has no relationship with the Judeo-Christian G-d. The proof is the crescent on the flag!

Another difference is that the more aggressive statements no longer have any relevance in today's life as the Jewish and Christian religions grow and change. Many of the statements are taken out of context or misunderstood - an eye for an eye means compensation for its loss not the taking of an eye. In fact, Judaism is about caring for people and not only Jews. Islam does not allow Muslims to care for any but other Muslims but not so much the women and children!

Islam is stuck in the past and most Muslims do not look forward.

Evelyn B (63)
Sunday March 30, 2014, 5:23 am
“Bible-based” discipline has led to child abuse

Eleonora Oldani (37)
Sunday March 30, 2014, 5:23 am

To Evelyn – what you’re saying is so correct. As I said further up in this messy thread: an Al Azhar scholar or Jihad Watch would pale in comparison. Even they couldn’t do this sort of collection in this time frame. Which only goes to show what she does – she takes the material provided to her and does her job for which she’s paid.

By the way – Jihad Watch … it never stops to amaze me and I just wonder how callous one can be to come up with a lie like “I remember the story where Robert Spencer (an ex-Muslim) …” (Gillian’s last posting March 30, 2014, 4:42 am) … if Bob Spencer would read this he’d get a heart attack from laughing! Even he never made such an infantile claim! A quick look at his bio tells the whole story. He is the one who founded with David Horowitz’s finances the infamous “Jihad Watch” and has no problem to be an all too willing tool for such a hard-core political Zionist. That’s his prerogative – but to claim that he is an ex-Muslim takes quite some chutzpah. Maybe one should tell him and give him a good laugh?

I like her backpedaling about her claim re acid attacks. First she says “The problem is regardless of where it occurs, the ‘culture’ is 99.9% of the time Islamic." Her posting on March 29, 2014, 6:13 pm. Legally one speaks of 99.9 % because there's always the chance that there is somewhere someone who doesn't fall into that category "X" and then it could become an issue. She truly seems to thinks that everyone has an equally limited cognitive capacity like she demonstratively displays.

And then she has no problem stating a few postings further down “It is clear that I am saying that the acid throwing is not confined to Muslims but the abuses on the vulnerable is performed mostly by Muslims.” Her posting on March 30, 2014, 4:37 am.

There is a medical term for such a state of mind.

What she hopes to achieve with making out of me a Muslim … I don’t really know and don’t care to know. But if it makes her happy … I can’t really be bothered by such crap which is usually the last resort due to lack of intellectual honesty and sound arguments. Q.E.D.

That’s it for me – may she rant in peace but without me; I don't intend to spend more time on this thread. The old saying has been confirmed one more time: “Do not argue with an idiot. She will drag you down to her gutter level and beat you with experience."

Stay safe, Evelyn, and thanks for the interesting discussion!

Aurea Aurea Walker (226)
Sunday March 30, 2014, 7:03 am
@Gilliam M - Madame have you no decency? How dare you imply that Eleonora, Evelyn or I have no empathy for women or children being abused! Or that we have men controlling our lives. You madam have gone a bridge too far! In the future trust me not only shall I not respond to your corrosive, hate filled posts, I shall know that I am dealing with exactly what you are. A hate mongering person all too ready to be divisive and incur further hate into a world that desperately needs understanding, empathy and love. Shame on you.

Gillian M (218)
Sunday March 30, 2014, 7:10 am
Aurea, I have seen you spouting your racist clap trap on many sites but you have never condemned such behaviour. If the cap fits....

As for hate filled, I merely quote from the koran so any hate comes from there, thanks for confirming that.

As for hate, the only hate I ever see is in the koran where there are 109 statements where Muslims must kill the dhimmi, convert them or make them may jizya which is a tax for the right to live. Also remember that Muslims may not make friends with dhimmis.

As for decency, I at least show compassion for the victims of Muslim hatred and indifference. Do you speak out for the 5,000 slaves who have died in Qatar building the FIFA stadium? Or the raped girls/women who are murdered because Muslims say that they have committed adultery?

Gillian M (218)
Sunday March 30, 2014, 7:22 am
Eleonara, you live in Egypt which is ethnically cleansing itself of all non-Muslims so you are either a Muslima or a slave. Take your pick. In fact, all of the Muslim controlled countries in the Middle East are forcing out any non-Muslims and many now proudly proclaim that no non-Muslims live there and will not allow any right of return. Only a religion of hatred would force out any not related to it.

As for sneering at those who are fully educated in Islam and found it so incompatible with decency, it merely shows a little mind and a lack of education. But then Muslims are required to kill apostates so you sneering is just par for the course. I am aware of converts to Islam but they mostly take place in prisons with those who are emotionally immature and who like the idea of being able to abuse without hindrance. Of course, there are also those who are paedophiles, terrorists and murderers who target non-Muslims in there too.

I would also add that I have not back pedalled on the acid attacks but you like to believe it, go ahead. There are always those who will copy cat something they can see causes emotional and physical trauma. 99.99% of acid attacks committed by Muslims and I have provided evidence towards this, Eleonora merely denies the undeniable.

Lindsay K (6)
Sunday March 30, 2014, 8:33 am
The message has to be loud and clear that so-called 'honour' killings are just that, killings, and will not be tolerated anywhere.

Gillian M (218)
Sunday March 30, 2014, 9:21 am
Islam has been ruled as incompatible with the UN Convention of Human Rights on several occasions by the EU Court of Human Rights. This same court advised care in carrying out its ruling because of public safety, that speaks volumes.

Gillian M (218)
Sunday March 30, 2014, 9:26 am
The Strasbourg-based European Court of Human Rights ruled in February 2003 that Islamic Sharia law is "incompatible with the fundamental principles of democracy." The court said that a legal system based on Sharia law "would diverge from the European Convention on Human Rights, particularly with regard to the rules on the status of women, and its intervention in all spheres of private and public life in accordance with religious precepts."

Gillian M (218)
Sunday March 30, 2014, 9:26 am
The rise in Muslim immigration has also contributed to an increase in anti-Semitism. Fully one-half of the Muslim students in Brussels are anti-Semitic, according to a 426-page study entitled, "Jong in Brussel" [Young in Brussels], produced by the Youth Research Platform.

In an interview with the Belgian newspaper De Morgan, Mark Elchardus, one of the authors of the report, said: "What is alarming is that you can describe half of the Muslim students as anti-Semitic, which is very high. What is worse is that those anti-Jewish feelings have nothing to do with a low educational level or social disadvantage, which is the case with racist Belgians. The anti-Semitism is theologically inspired and there is a direct link between being Muslim and having anti-Semitic feelings."

Gillian M (218)
Sunday March 30, 2014, 9:39 am
Is Islam Compatible With Democracy and Human Rights? Part I

Sharia law incompatible with human rights legislation, Lords say


PJ C (43)
Sunday March 30, 2014, 10:16 am
Any reasonable person would understand that as a potential murderer that they personally were the source of their family dishonour. Anyone related to him will get as far away as possible from him while he is in custody and, hopefully, in jail keeping them out of harms way.

As he's hiding his face in the photo one has to believe he's not that proud of himself.

I think when people move to a country the laws against violence including ignorant family honour behaviour like this is against the law and you will be punished severely for breaking the law.

PJ C (43)
Sunday March 30, 2014, 10:35 am
What this man did is not sanctioned by the Quran any more than raping children is sanctioned by the New Testament. People who do honour killings or rape children are doing such things for their own reasons that most people of their faith do not support. Generalizing a whole faith or culture based on the actions of a few is the first step to genocide.

There are many different factions to Islam just as there are many different factions to Christianity. The truly ridiculous and pathetic Westboro Baptist "church" does not represent the Quakers or even one of the multiple other Baptist churches and so it goes. In town there is a Westboro Baptist Church that has less that zero to do with that freak show but I do remember how alarmed I was the first time I read about Fred and Shirley and their spawn thinking it was the one in town.

"There were no cases of "honour killing" during the early period of Islam. This is a concept that seems to have appeared only recently, and is based only upon ignorance of the true teachings of Islam, and perhaps some ancient customs that pre-date Islam.

"Whoever kills a believer intentionally, their reward will be Hell, to abide therein forever, and the wrath and the curse of Allah are upon them, and a dreadful penalty is prepared for them." (Holy Quran, Chapter 4, Verse 93)

"On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if anyone kills a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if they killed all people. And if any one saved a life, it would be as if they saved the life of all people." (Holy Quran, Chapter 5, Verse 32)

Gillian M (218)
Sunday March 30, 2014, 12:05 pm
Pj, that last quote is from the Torah and is one of the many pieces taken by Mohammed to try to create a religion. It is believed to be Mohammed "allowing" Jews to have their own land, Israel, and their right to police it. It has nothing to do with Islam even though many Muslims quote it to pretend that Islam is a religion of peace.

From Islam Watch - “Honor Killing” is Absolutely Islamic!? an extract but please read the article and see the pictures, heart breaking

Honor killing is the bone chilling horrific cruelty committed by the family members—father, mother, brothers, brother-in-laws, even in some cases own sisters also. In this terrible episode the victim is always the daughter/sister or other blood related young women who get killed. Perpetrators are always the family members stated above. Family honor is one of the core values of Arab society. Anything from speaking with an unrelated man, to rumored pre-marital loss of virginity, to an extra-marital affair, refuses forced marriages; marry according to their will; or even women and girls who have been raped—can stain or destroy the family honor. Therefore, family members (parents, brothers, or sisters) kill the victim in order to remove the stain or maintain, and protect the honor of the family. Killers are given light sentences, sometimes with little or no jail time at all. The killers mainly defend their act of murder by referring to the Koran and Islam. Family guardian will say that they are merely following the directives set down in their Islamic ethical beliefs.

jan b (5)
Sunday March 30, 2014, 1:14 pm
People are killing their children who aren't muslims for other reason than honor killings. Society in general is not civilized and it may take several generations of evolution if it ever does become civilized.

Eleonora Oldani (37)
Sunday March 30, 2014, 4:21 pm

To Aurea – thanks a lot for trying to put in a veto for reason and decency; unfortunately it’s wasted energy as nothing can penetrate such deep seated hatred paired with (willful?) ignorance as repeatedly demonstrated here.

What such hatred can and does lead to has been brought to the public’s attention with the horrendous killings in Norway in 2011 which shocked the whole world.

Just to refresh memories: in 2011 Breivik killed 77 (seventy seven) people, mostly teenagers, at an AUF camp in Norway. Robert Spencer (where did I read this name recently described as an ex-Muslim?) and Pamela Geller should have stood trial too as his “mentors”.

From their websites and similar ones stems the material which is vomited by the e-Brigade allover Care2’s website lately.

“Abraham Foxman of the Anti-Defamation League (ADL) called Spencer and Geller American anti-Muslim writers because their writings "promote a conspiratorial anti-Muslim agenda under the pretext of fighting radical Islam. This belief system parallels the creation of an ideological — and far more deadly — form of anti-Semitism in the late 19th and early 20th centuries." He continued, "we must always be wary of those whose love for the Jewish people is born out of hatred of Muslims or Arabs.” (

From the archives of the Anti Defamation League:
ADL: Norwegian Terrorist Motivated By Growing Extremist Ideology In Europe And The U.S.,0b1623ca-d5a4-465d-a369-df6e8679cd9e,frameless.html

“The suspect in the July 22 attacks, Andrew Behring Breivik, published a 1,500-page manifesto quoting from the writings of European and American anti-Muslim writers, including Robert Spencer and Pamela Geller, who promote a conspiratorial anti-Muslim agenda under the pretext of fighting radical Islam.

According to ADL, Breivik's views seem to be influenced by an ideological movement both in the United States and Europe that is rousing public fear by consistently vilifying the Islamic faith.

The League, which has strongly condemned the attacks in Norway and expressed deep sympathy for the Norwegian people, also warned against the rush to judgment that led some to blame Muslims for the attack before all of the facts were known to authorities.

"The rush to judgment that resulted in many initial accounts inaccurately blaming the attack on Islamic terrorists underscores the obligation to assess terrorist threats and acts without creating an atmosphere of blame and suspicion of the larger Muslim community," said Mr. Foxman.”


Well Aurea – decency and intellectual honesty is definitely the last thing in the mind of someone who utters such lies as that the Middle Eastern countries are ethnically cleansing themselves from all non-Muslims … unnoticed by the whole world! As far as her “full education in Islam” … having recovered from ROFL … I would suggest that we just leave it at that.

As we all know and despite all mercenaries who have convinced themselves that they are well informed about anything at all life will move on and as I expressed earlier … the dogs will keep on barking alongside the caravan …

Stay safe!

Rahman Qureshi (76)
Sunday March 30, 2014, 7:33 pm
As for the usual tuo quoque fallacy of "well what about Anders Breivik", first of all this shows that the only way people can try to defend Islam is by saying it is just as bad as everyone else. Based on that type of fallacious reasoning, no need to condemn Hitler or Nazism because "Jews did bad stuff too." This is why tuo quoque is a fallacy because it is a deflection, diversion tactic with one and only one purpose: to take attention away from the subject, which is the overwhelming evil of Islam.

Interesting, if all cultures are the same, we'd see people applying for citizenship in Pakistan, Iran and Saudi Arabia as much as Muslims do in America, Canada and England. But we don't see that because Muslims are trying to flee their hellholes, otherwise known as Muslim countries. My female Pakistani friend, who enjoys the freedom she has in America, tells me that she will NEVER go back to Pakistan or to any other Muslim country for the rest of her life. She and other women all recognize the disgusting nature of Islam-governed countries. She went from seeing women being treated as NOTHING, in her own words, to having a life of dignity in America. And yet all cultures are supposed to be equal? CRAP! Western civilization is infinitely SUPERIOR to Muslim and Arab culture!

As for the 'Anders (not Andrew, Eleonora) Breivik" rhetoric, time to take Eleonora to school:

Back in January 2014, the terrorist Anders Behring Breivik sent a letter to the international media. In the letter, he describes himself as a fighter for the “survival of the Nordic race,” and demands a territory for whites in Norway.

Expo Today reviewed his letter. Breivik's letter is described as a sort of first step in a “peace negotiation” with his political opponents. In the letter, Anders Behring Breivik changes to some extent the rhetoric from that which he used in his so-called manifesto. He says that he used “counter-jihadist” rhetoric in the manifesto to protect “ethno-nationalists” and instead provoke a media campaign against the anti-nationalist counter-jihad supporters. He calls this a strategy of “dual psychology.”

Did everyone catch that? Breivik was AGAINST the counter-jihad movement all along, and his terrorist act proved it. So, Eleonora and all others, your tuo quoque poster boy is actually in line with pious Muslims, trying to destroy the counter-jihad movement! You're nowhere as bright as you think, Eleonora. Perhaps your false prophet Muhammad was right all along, you are deficient in intelligence!

DaleLovesOttawa O (198)
Monday March 31, 2014, 3:19 am
It is bizarre that Khalaf Alshaek was ordered to leave the country instead of being convicted and sent to prison. Six days 'time served' is nothing.

The Judge seems to take lightly what occurred here. However, some male judges often do that when it comes to crimes affecting women. He certainly should be deported after time in jail. The Judge is letting him leave the country with a slap on his wrist. Why is a provincial court judge involved in deportation, that is federal jurisdiction.

"A Saudi Arabian man has been ordered to leave the country after he attacked his daughter at a Ches's Fish & Chips restaurant in St. John's last week.

Khalaf Alshaek, 56, threatened to kill his daughter while at the Freshwater Road restaurant after she asked permission to marry a Newfoundlander who converted to Islam.

The court was told on Monday that Alshaek felt that his daughter brought shame on his family by not asking permission to have the relationship.

In court on Tuesday, Alshaek pleaded guilty to assaulting and threatening his daughter.

He was sentenced to six days' time served, and ordered to leave Canada.

Judge James Walsh also put him on 12-months probation, which would prevent him from having contact with his daughter.

He was put on a plane today, bound for the mainland. Alshaek should be back in Saudi Arabia by Friday."

Evelyn B stated: "I am absolutely convinced that the most violent comments here are because the man's ethnic & religious background it mentioned .... and had this concerned domestic violence (also far too frequent an occurrence in our Western societies) in a non-Arab context, the same people would not have taken such an aggressive stance against the wrong-doer.

Using any and every opportunity to "bash" a sub-population is also a form of violence - and encouraging this is encouraging racism...This is no better - just a different form of violence...
Work to support those working to change the practices, instead of going on vicious attacks, if you really care about putting an end to extremes of domestic violence - and tackle it everywhere, instead of really only focusing on it when you find signs in a population that you fear/ distrust/ hate ..."

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Eleonora Oldani said: "As I often note there’s nothing like a story concerning Islam to bring the bigots and racists out from underneath their rocks...If violence against women – rather the protection and freedom of women – were truly the main concern of some of the posters here then the fact that almost EVER HOUR A WOMAN GETS KILLED IN INDIA would make headlines on Care2 tenfold over. New horrific stories about abuse, acid attacks and femicide in India would be posted by them by the hour!"

Beth S said: "Unfortunately, Islam allows the killing of one's child, sister or wife. This happens because the Islamic belief/law system thinks it's okay to happen. What this man did is approved by Islam. It is important to understand that this is not some individual who did something wrong. This man is a PRODUCT of Islam. That's what we need to understand. That is just one reason why Islam is so dangerous."

Fascinating, when one says that: "It is important to understand that this is not some individual who did something wrong."

There are Christian fundamentalists who are extreme, yet we do blame the individual and not all of Christianity although one can find quotes from the Old Testament that are extremely sexist toward women.

Looking at a number of stories filed by Beth S, much of them focus on Muslims/Islam.

Gillian M "Aurea, I have seen you spouting your racist clap trap on many sites but you have never condemned such behaviour. If the cap fits..."

Many sites? Kindly be more specific and provide examples.

You also state: "Eleonora, you live in Egypt which is ethnically cleansing itself of all non-Muslims so you are either a Muslima or a slave."

I looked at Elenora Oldani's profile. She was born in Switzerland. Do you know for certain that she is Muslim simply because she is residing in Egypt? If she were a slave, I doubt if any internet time would be allotted.

Gillian M said:

"As for sneering at those who are fully educated in Islam and found it so incompatible with decency, it merely shows a little mind and a lack of education. But then Muslims are required to kill apostates so you sneering is just par for the course. I am aware of converts to Islam but they mostly take place in prisons with those who are emotionally immature and who like the idea of being able to abuse without hindrance. Of course, there are also those who are paedophiles, terrorists and murderers who target non-Muslims in there too."

So, according to Gillian M, anyone not denouncing everything to do with Islam simply 'lacks education' and 'shows a little mind.' Gillian M also states that every Muslim in the world goes around killing apostates.

Many of your news stories seem to focus on what the Muslims are doing, such as:

"British, European Taxpayers Supporting Tens of Millions of Muslims on Welfare."

Intriguing, I wonder how many Christians or atheists are on welfare in all of Europe.

PJ C mentioned: "What this man did is not sanctioned by the Quran any more than raping children is sanctioned by the New Testament. People who do honour killings or rape children are doing such things for their own reasons that most people of their faith do not support. Generalizing a whole faith or culture based on the actions of a few is the first step to genocide. There are many different factions to Islam just as there are many different factions to Christianity."


Rahman Qureshi states: "Right on cue, Eleonora, Aurea and Evelyn rush in with the usual deflection, avoidance and attack strategy which serves only one purpose: letting the Islamic abuse of females continue. The level of self-hatred in these women is astonishing. You have all been completely indoctrinated with Muhammad's words, that you are deficient in intelligence."

Since 99.9 percent of the time that I see Rahman Qureshi posting comments, it is generally on Islam and how we must fear all of it and that anyone disagreeing is somehow an 'apologist' for Islam/Muslims or 'indoctrinated with Muhammad's words.' Fascinating. Personally, I could care less about the Islamic religion and the continual gripe fest that seems to be happening on Care2 when it comes to the issue. Islam means nothing to me, personally. There are legitimate security threats coming from various Muslim countries, but the same goes for China, Russia and many others. I don't have time to hate and detest everyone because of fundamentalism and those who take every quote from the Quran or Bible or whatever other religious document literally.

I simply find it disturbing that there seems to be a concentrated effort when it comes to Muslim this and Islamic that. I have to agree that given honour killings in India and other places, these are not endlessly posted, yet see a Muslim do the same thing, then everything under the sun depicting Muslims in a bad light is jumped upon as evidence that every last Muslim and Islam must all be feared.

Gillian M said: "Eleonora, Wiki is not a source to quote from because, for all we know, you wrote the entry."

Ooooh, fascinating jibe. Maybe Stephen Harper wrote it or a mermaid. But, of course, let's all be dismissive of Wiki because anyone of us could be the author. Gasp.

Beth S has a story posted with the caption: "Arab (Shabiha?) Kicks Small Donkey Off of a Cliff for Fun and Laughs (VIDEO)

Why must the word 'Arab' be even in the headline? It could read Man Kicks Small we say 'black kicks donkey off cliff' or 'white man kicks donkey' off cliff or ...(fill in blank).

One news story Beth S put up was about political corruption, and mentioned Judicial Watch.

"Judicial Watch is a politically conservative government watchdog group."

Oh, that is a Wiki...maybe I 'wrote' that one.

Beth S states in her profile: "What Bugs Me: intolerance.
Truly fascinating.

Rahman Qureshi cheer leads by stating: "And yet all cultures are supposed to be equal? CRAP! Western civilization is infinitely SUPERIOR to Muslim and Arab culture!"

Oh my, give our side a gold star. We are so superior. Given Western history and even our present, there are often aspects of Western life that are preferable to certain aspects of life elsewhere. Superior? Perhaps things changed here faster, it does not make us superior as societies often evolve in terms of human rights at different stages and Western society still engages in a lot of brutality against women as seen in 'rape culture.' There are still judges that trivialize rape.

Most democracies are preferable to non-democratic states, however one cannot say that there will never be a form of democracy in Islamic countries or even a country such as China which has never known true democracy.

Looks like the new version of Fear Factor, if it has the word 'Muslim' or 'Islam' in it, well - we all 'know' that it has to be bad and nefarious, right?

There was a news story (I forget which one) but it had the usual Muslim/Islamic theme and a few went on to say in the comments how some wished that all Muslims could be 'hemmed' in and cut off from the rest of the world. Some may as well be riding a horse and yelling: "The Muslims are Coming, the Muslims are Coming."

Interesting, here on Care2 there are people who hate all Asians because of cruelty done to animals in China, etc., and some will comment on how all Asians are 'subhuman' and should be 'nuked' off the planet.

Or there are some going on against gays which can be perpetrated by a number of religious beliefs.

There were even a few AA haters on an article about that organization. They spent over a month on the thread, daily bringing up news items about how AA has been taken over by child abusers, murderers, rapists. Anything they could find against AA they quoted endlessly. I posted a news story about a fight outside the American Legion to state that all organizations have some people who assault others but the endless campaign to deride AA was an obsession. I have never been a member but know some who are and certainly the mainstream media never endlessly published anti-AA stories. If one listened to them, one would have thought that the National Guard would be stationed outside every AA chapter given the mayhem they were constantly posting.

There are some Canada haters in Care2 who, because of the seal hunt, denounce all Canadians as barbarians even though most of the country is against the seal hunt. One person denounces Canadians everywhere she gets a chance, even using a story about the suicide of a Canadian teenager as a soapbox against Canada telling all that this is an example of what Canada does.

"Shame on the people who treated her as a drinker and not as a rape victim. This is what Canada does. They kill these young seals and they killed her for the chain of damage that their country did. I am so glad that Canada isn't part of the US, that would make us responsible for this beautiful child's death.YOU SUCK CANADA!!"

Read more:

I did mention on the thread that there was a 15-year-old California teen that committed suicide under similar circumstances.

And of course, we cannot forget the Misanthropists, who spend their time droning on about how humans are the plague and cancer of the planet and how the world would be better off if humans did not exist. Sigh. In their view, every human is a walking cancer cell plaguing the planet. Drum roll, how many of the same people will step into the disintegration chamber first? Not many, I am sure.

Of course there are some of those who are religious and state that unless one believes in God, one will burn in Hell or also some who say that if one believes in God/Religion of any sort, then one is brainwashed, etc., and etc.

And let's not forget...there are even some who are so opposed to what everyone else puts on our plate to eat. There are some who say that if you eat any animal product (vegetarians, omnivores) such as eating eggs, yogurt, cheese, fish, honey, meat, chicken or even if one wears wool, this automatically makes you 'cold, heartless, lacking in compassion, mentally deranged, unfeeling, akin to a pedophile' or whatever other invective that can be hurled our way...oh, I forgot, 'subhuman' as well. Not all vegans believe this but there are some who make generalizations based on what one eats to judge one as a person.

Sometimes it appears that there is an unmerry band of Hate2 or HateYou on Care2.

I have a solution, put all the people who detest each other into one giant room (it might take up half the planet) and hen leave you all there for the next 500 years. Perhaps by then, you will have decided to learn some way of getting along with each other. If not, there is always that alternative universe in an old Star Trek episode where two people are locked in battle for the rest of eternity. Or even the planet Cheron, in the Star Trek episode called Let that Be Your Last Battlefield where the people of a planet killed each other off because of their hate. Lt. Uhura had asked Captain Kirk is hate was all they ever had and he stated no, but that is all they have left.


Gillian M (218)
Monday March 31, 2014, 4:11 am
Dale, you are missing the point, Western culture abhors the abuser and seeks to send him (usually) or her to prison and/or treatment. The Muslim culture and Sharia law allows it. Did anyone read my last comment? It doesn't seem so where it is made clear that honour killings and severe physical abuse is acceptable and even encouraged in Muslim countries/culture and it is that that we are objecting to. We also object to such abuses to non-Muslims and I am in a position to speak about these abuses as I have spent time with victims of many different cultures. Perhaps the worst part is that the Muslim male can walk off with their children and the mother can have no access to them. As none of you have ever held a Muslim woman who has been told that then not one of you has the right to criticise me or call me racist.

No-one here has said that honour killings do not happen elsewhere but a very small percentage belong to other ethnic or religious groups, the vast majority belongs to those brought up and practising Sharia law.

I also not that no-one comments on the fact that Islam is not compatible with the UN Convention of Human Rights and it seems that Eleonora, Aura & jass find that acceptable. Decent people who believe in human rights disagree. Well Eleonora, what is your comment on that? Aura, do you have anything to say? jess?

Finally, not one of you has posted anything that disagrees with any of the evidence that I have offered, not from the koran remembering that the first part has been overwritten by the later part nor from any other source.

Gillian M (218)
Monday March 31, 2014, 4:20 am
And, also the traditional dig at Robert Spencer and Pamela Geller. Why? It is because they report the stories that expose Islam for the hate filled ideology that it is. Because they do so they must be slandered, libelled and attacked.

If part of the Islamic culture is about honour killings, which it is, then they will talk about it. Islamists and even moderates don't want their dirty laundry aired in public so they scream, shout and riot.

As we already know that Islam does not meet any part of the UN Convention for Human Rights, this behaviour to hide the truth will continue especially as those who prefer to see Muslim women and children suffer acid attacks and being buried alive than that someone should expose the truth and help them. I think that the difference between the civilised person and Islam is clearly exposed here.

Syd H (48)
Monday March 31, 2014, 4:45 am

Oh Dale, let's not forget those who hate on Vegans, attacking anyone they sense is one while justifying it because one vegan once said something ridiculous (but the ridiculous things the non-vegan says are just fine of course).

A recent one I received (by one of the Islamaphobic here no less) is: "And Syd H, the only place a vegetarian will find B12 is from nutritional yeast or blackstrap molasses. It's those blatant lies that cause such distrust. The absolute top source of vitamin B-12 is beef liver. Then again, perhaps your mental and emotional disorders are cause by the lack of B12 and I should not be so harsh on you."

Of course, the "blatant lies" were never revealed to me (unless they were his about blackstrap molasses and vegetarians of course).

Kudos to Eleonora, PJ, Evelyn, Jess, and others who have stood up to this vicious, voracious, hate-mongering group using C2 and victims (who they claim compassion for in one breath and hate for all with the next) in their relentless pursuit of dogmatic, twisted, supremacist platform.


Beth S (330)
Monday March 31, 2014, 5:31 am
When I came to Care2 to sign environmental and animal petitions (which I still do), others and I noticed that Islam was getting high ratings. It was nothing but a beautiful religion, with women's rights and how wonderful everything was in the world of Islam compared to the ugly Western world, and of course, Israel and Jews could do no right. It was such a distortion that in the absence of the other side of the story, it could be considered a falsehood.

Remember that in U.S. courts, witnesses are ordered to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Here on Care2, the opposite was holding sway.

The only way for this to happen is to be extremely exclusive and revisionist in the of what to see, hear and speak. Care2, including Causes, was extremely out of balance.

Since we all deserve to know the truth, and Islam has had its it-can-do-nothing-wrong heyday, it is extremely important that people really understand the dynamics that motivate the Islamic world, because they are not just staying in the Islamic world, they are coming here.

I categorically do not hate Muslims. There are Muslims I love. There are Muslims who are wonderful human beings, kind, caring, irrespective of others' religion. I have had good Muslim friends, I even have some in my family. Alas, the Musims with the same values that I treasure, short-handed in the Golden Rule, are technically "bad" Muslims.

They do not follow Islam's imperatives to hate people of other religions in the heart. What I and others want to do is show that Islam is actually EXTREMELY intolerant, which is quite the opposite of what its apologists say. The truth has to see the light of day.

Notice that almost all of us make a distinction between Muslims, who are people, and the ideology of Islam.

However, many people who live their lives for this ideology and do really awful things. These things are a result of the ideology and we need to explore them.

C2NN really allows for articles, and it is in this sphere we must operate, rather post treatises, which essentially ends up happening in the comments section as a by-product.

Islam, like any other ideology, deserves to be scrutinized, especially in an era where doing so is considered impolitic and the many people who do know and who are trying to get the truth out are being harassed, dismissed from their jobs, etc. Balance, objectivity, truth, are critical in good decision making and policy, and we live in an era of sweeping changes.

To this end, these articles are posted to open up a black-painted window by those who don't want us to see or know. We, in a free society, deserve and NEED to know the truth to remain a free society.

Gillian M (218)
Monday March 31, 2014, 8:27 am
Syd, a vegan who talks about a vegan source of B-12 is not lying. The problem is you twisting reality to suit yourself.

Beth, absolutely brilliantly put. Both of my sons have close friends who are also Muslim as well as Hindu etc. Their families are nice people too and often embarrassed by the things that Islamists do.

However, I do not want to see my country have to change their laws and way of life to accommodate Sharia Law. Muslims have chosen to live in my country with my laws and they should abide by them. It is this that we speak out about as well as the evil that Islam is and how many choose to interpret it. As I do not want to be murdered, forced to convert or pay jizya, a tax for the right to live, (not sure about Syd, Aurea, jess or Dale, Eleonora is already a Muslima) then I will speak out.

Past Member (0)
Monday March 31, 2014, 4:45 pm
Religiosity is a symptom of induced insanity in mass numbers of otherwise hopefully sane individuals..:) Oh oh..

Leanne B (46)
Monday March 31, 2014, 4:58 pm

marie C (163)
Monday March 31, 2014, 5:30 pm
Thank you Beth for bringing this abuse to our attention

Joy M (167)
Monday March 31, 2014, 5:38 pm
Noted with disgust..

Kerrie G (116)
Monday March 31, 2014, 11:58 pm
Noted, thanks.

Julie W (33)
Tuesday April 1, 2014, 2:41 am
Why does Care2 keep repeating this set of articles? Running from March 24th to April 1st. How about some new articles?

Gillian M (218)
Tuesday April 1, 2014, 3:55 am
Ros, it is a shame that you cannot read the article and comments and not see how the Kurdish women are suffering and that your alleged racists are actually protesting this. I am disgusted that people believe that criticising and trying to help the vulnerable is racist. In fact, Islam is not a race, it is a hate filled ideology that allows and encouraging abuses of both women and children. To help these people it is necessary for other people to understand these abuses and to speak out to their governments. It is sad that such as you behave this way which helps prevent the help so desperately needed.

Beth S (330)
Tuesday April 1, 2014, 8:39 am
When you can show us your accreditation in the field of mind reading, then you can say how we feel about what we write. There are many points. One is empathy and fear for women who are treated like trash, and the cause for it is spreading like a virus.

Ros, if you want the column to end its front page status, stop commenting.

It's that simple.

Gillian M (218)
Tuesday April 1, 2014, 11:32 am
Ros, what a sad person you are that you cannot find compassion for suffering women and children regardless of which country they are. I believe that Muslim women in Afghanistan or Iran feel just as much pain when being beaten by their husbands as any woman living in America does. In fact, Muslim women probably suffer more because the American woman can call the police and have expert treatment in hospital, the woman in Afghanistan or Iran cannot call the police and is unlikely to be taken to hospital.

By the way, unless Kurdish women are some new species of human that I have not heard of then they are just like anyone else. Personally, I put you with the person who shoots aborigines, because they can.


Panchali Yapa (26)
Tuesday April 1, 2014, 11:53 am
Thank you

Luis Gerardo (12)
Tuesday April 1, 2014, 12:13 pm

Ken O (55)
Tuesday April 1, 2014, 1:04 pm
What a long thread. Eleonora Oldani you seem to have things quite a bit confused. We have domestic violence in the US, it's true however we don't refer to that as "honor killings" only Muslims do that. Sorry to burst your bubble but nowhere in the known world does any religion or any group practice a thing known as "honor killings" nor do they practice Female Genital Mutilation. Only Muslims do this as a matter of historical fact. Prove to us that at any time, anywhere has any other religion done this? You cannot because they have not. It is a specific practice of that ideology known as "Islam". But, nice try. No other religion practices suicide bombing either, it's another tenet of Islam. I'm not even being "Islamophobic" to point this out as these are merely facts that cannot be disputed. If Islam wanted these atrocities to stop they would stop. I have never seen anywhere in any news media that adherents to Islam, either Sunni or Shiite, rise up as one to oppose these actions, never not once, not anywhere. You appear (emphasis on "appear") to be against these things and adamantly state that others are as well but there is no mention anywhere of that fact. Try again.

Gillian M (218)
Tuesday April 1, 2014, 3:23 pm
The United Nations has estimated that around 5,000 honor killings take place each year, but since many occur in isolated rural areas and aren’t reported to authorities, it’s likely that the real figure is much higher. In many countries, the practice is so socially accepted that murderers are treated leniently, or not punished at all. In countries like Pakistan and Yemen, for example, the killings are often ignored by police and prosecutors. In Syria, the legal code states that if a man catches a female relative having illicit sex with another man, and kills them (either just the woman or the partner as well), he is entitled to a reduced penalty of just two years in prison.

In these cultures, the women of the family are seen as representing its honor, so there is massive pressure on them to behave ‘properly’. This means dressing modestly, never talking to men outside the family, never attracting attention to themselves, and most importantly of all, avoiding sex before marriage (or outside marriage, once they are wed) and agreeing to marry a partner chosen by their family. Other types of behaviour seen as ‘dishonorable’ for women - and therefore as punishable by death – include political activism, investigating other religions, and requesting a divorce. There have also been many cases of homosexual boys being killed to preserve the family ‘honor.’

If a family member deviates from this code of behaviour, the family’s reputation is sullied. The only way they can redeem themselves is by murdering the relative – again, usually the daughter – who has dishonored them. It doesn’t matter if the relative is completely innocent. It could simply be that she’s attractive, and so been shown attention by men outside the family; it could be that she lost her virginity by being raped. The fact that she has sullied the family’s reputation is enough to justify murdering her. For example, Amnesty International reported a case in Turkey of a 16 year old girl who was murdered after her family heard a love song being dedicated to her on the radio. In Pakistan, a girl with learning difficulties was killed after being raped, even though the relative who raped her was found and prosecuted.

Honor killing is as incomprehensible as it is tragic. Why would seemingly sane people be willing to kill their own offspring – daughters they have conceived, given birth to and spent many years nurturing – for the sake of their reputation? It doesn't make any sense from an evolutionary point of view. If the Neo-Darwinian view of evolution is correct, human beings should be least likely to kill the people with whom they share most genes (i.e. their children). They should be willing to die for their children – or at least to nurture and protect them – not kill them. Like the puzzle of why human beings can be altruistic towards people – and other living creatures – with whom they have little genetic connection, honour killing seems to highlight shortcomings within Neo-Darwinian theory.

However, from a psychological and cultural point of view, there are some possible explanations. To a large extent, honor killings are linked to an extreme form of ‘status anxiety’ – the fear of losing status, and the desire to protect it. In the societies where it occurs, there is a pathological insecurity, a constant pressure to adhere to strict social conventions for fear of losing face, and of being ostracised by the rest of the community. There’s a connection to social identity and the need for belonging. Disobeying social convention brings the risk of losing one’s identity as a member of a particular social group.

Honor killings are clearly related to male domination too, and low female status. It’s only possible for fathers to kill their own daughters – or brothers their own sisters – because they place a very low value of female life to begin with. If women were revered and respected, then no one would consider killing – or even abusing – them. It’s no coincidence that many of the cultures which practice honor killing – for example, India and Pakistan – also practice female infanticide. In these cultures, female life has negligible value, and so to destroy it is only a minor crime.

There’s certainly a strong link to sexual repression too. In addition to the insanity of parents killing their own children, it also seems insane that most honor killings are a punishment for completely natural and healthy human instincts: the ‘crime’ of falling in love with a member of a different caste (which is often the cause of honour killings in India), or with a stranger not hand-picked by your parents, or the ‘crime’ of feeling sexual attraction and following this through to sex itself. Again, it’s no coincidence that honor killings occur in societies which, in addition to being strongly patriarchal, have a high degree of sexual repression, and a neurotically hostile attitude to sex and the human body. It’s difficult to imagine honor killings taking place if these cultures saw sex as a natural and health impulse, where sex before marriage was acceptable and there was no pressure for girls to remain virgins till marriage – just as it’s impossible to imagine them taking place if females were valued as highly as males.

Like so many other ‘insane’ types of human behaviour – such as warfare, racism and materialism – honour killing ultimately stems from a sense of existential vulnerability and incompleteness. It’s this sense of lack which creates the need for belonging and status, and the paranoid fear of losing them. As I suggest in my new book Back to Sanity, the only sure way of correcting this pathological behaviour is for human beings to develop a more secure and stable sense of self, and to begin to develop an inner harmony and wholeness.

Steve Taylor is a senior lecturer in psychology at Leeds Metropolitan University

Patricia Martinez (63)
Tuesday April 1, 2014, 6:09 pm

Me thinks thou dost protest too much. He happens to be correct. The truth is not a joke. He's saying it like it is. Besides, personal attacks indicate a lack of substance in your argument.

Maybe you should do some serious introspection about your views and see if your culture didn't rub off on you perhaps a lot more than you' are willing to admit.

The Muslim Brotherhood had deep ties to the Nazis. Egypt was the place of its birth, and one of the people who is in denial lives there. No wonder she feels so comfortable.


Debra Tate (17)
Tuesday April 1, 2014, 6:12 pm
Signed and noted.

Debra Tate (17)
Tuesday April 1, 2014, 6:20 pm
Unacceptable!! Noted.

Charlene Rush (79)
Tuesday April 1, 2014, 9:55 pm
This is just an extreme example of the extent male persons will go to use religion as a means of POWER & CONTROL over women.

Shan D (49)
Wednesday April 2, 2014, 2:34 pm
""Khalaf Alshaek, 56, is charged with assault and two counts of uttering threats. "

Provincial Court. Doesn't sound all that serious, does it." (Gene Jacobson)

The U.S. equivalent of this would be whatever you call your state-level courts, Gene. Please don't make it sound as trivial as traffic court, 'k?

The charges should have included attempted murder. Three months? That's nothing. I'd have thought the Shafia murders would have taught this country a lesson, but apparently not.

Shan D (49)
Wednesday April 2, 2014, 2:39 pm
"Sometimes it appears that there is an unmerry band of Hate2 or HateYou on Care2. " (Dale O.)

Yep. And it's all over the site.

Beth S (330)
Thursday April 3, 2014, 1:27 pm
Thomas Jefferson had a Qur'an for the simple purpose of finding out what motivated them to encourage piracy (the Barbary Pirates) and acts of aggression, terrorism and war against non-Muslim countries, including the fledgling U.S.

Prior to this, the U.S did not have a navy. It was the result of the hijacking of American Merchant Marine ships, their cargoes, and enslavement of U.S. MM sailors that Jefferson allocated the funds for what would become the U.S. Navy and Marines.

He had to understand what motivated the Muslim world and how he could get them to stop this horrible aggression, because he had tried to pay ransom (as the Europeans were doing) and the behaviors didn't stop. In fact, paying ransom only encouraged the Islamic aggression more.

Reading the Qur'an and understanding the totalitarian, violent, supremacist nature of Islam, he realized the only way to win this war was to fight back seriously.

We need our leaders to study Qur'an and Islamic doctrine, so they understand what this is about instead of trying to appease the world of Islam, which is about a successful a strategy as trying to appease Hitler was.

Know your enemy.

Beth S (330)
Friday April 4, 2014, 11:14 am
I understand that you make the "politically correct" arguments and feel quite self-righteous doing so, in spite of all the facts out there.

Just want to say, enjoy feeling self-righteous, because the time will come that your words my come to bite you in the backside.

Beth S (330)
Sunday April 6, 2014, 6:08 am
I agree that bitterness and hatred give you diseases.

My main goal is for freedom, health, liberty, human rights, so I feel very positive about exposing those ideologies that suppress and even vehemently hate those things, which Islam of course, does.

So my main motivation is love for humankind and making people aware of the ideologies of hatred and dominance so they can resist and the human spirit can triumph.

Even though we want peace very badly, we have to face the fact that the Dar Al Kharb of Islam -- the House of War -- is at play now. Hiding from it and pretending it's not there will not have us help have peace.

The tolerance of evil is evil in and of itself. Anyone who really loves live and human rights must stand up to today's distorted zeitgeist and be on the side of truth, love and freedom.

Roberto MARINI (88)
Sunday March 22, 2015, 9:28 am
people must stop this cruelty in the name of religion or God
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