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CALL TO ACTION: Support Nadler Resolution on Bush Pardons


US Politics & Gov't  (tags: petition, Bush pardons, crimes, H.Res. 1531 )

Marion
- 3594 days ago - democrats.com
PLEASE SIGN THIS PETITION supporting Nadler who Introduces Resolution Opposing Possible Bush Pardons of His Own Subordinates for Crimes He Authorized



   

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Marion Y (322)
Friday November 21, 2008, 8:57 am
NOTE:US citizens only can sign this petition. However, even if you are outside of the US, you can forward this link to your US friends and support this worthy cause.


Senator Russ Feingold editorialized against these possible pardons at Salon.com yesterday; please urge him to introduce in the Senate the same resolution that Nadler has in the House.

Never before has a president pardoned himself or his subordinates for crimes he authorized. The idea that the pardon power constitutionally includes such pardons ignores a thousand year tradition in which no man can sit in judgment of himself, and the fact that James Madison and George Mason argued that the reason we needed the impeachment power was that a president might some day try to pardon someone for a crime that he himself was involved in. The problem is not preemptive pardons of people not yet tried and convicted. The problem is not blanket pardons of unnamed masses of people. Both of those types of pardons have been issued in the past and have their appropriate place. The problem is the complete elimination of any semblance of the rule of law by pardoning one's own subordinates for crimes you instructed them to commit.

Yes, of course, there's something absurd about knowing that a president authorized crimes, not impeaching him, not prosecuting him, not proposing any action with any teeth at all, but formally objecting to the idea of him issuing pardons of his own subordinates for crimes he authorized. But this is where we are. State, local, civil, foreign, and international prosecutions are likely ways of holding Bush, Cheney, and gang accountable, and pardons can't interfere with them. Pardons can't interfere with impeachment. But if we allow these pardons, we not only guarantee no federal prosecutions, and not only give Congress an excuse to drop its investigations, but we also establish the precedent that from here on out any president can violate any law and then pardon the crime. This is simply to end the idea of law. We cannot allow that.

We need to work with Congressman Nadler and Senator Feingold to promote awareness of what is wrong with self-pardons. In this way we can prepare the American public for the appropriate response when the pardons come. The appropriate response will be to demand:

1. Immediate impeachment of Bush and Cheney, even if they are out of office.

2. Overturning of the pardons, as Bush's lawyers told him he could do to Clinton's pardon of Marc Rich, which was a far more minor abuse of the pardon power.

3. Legislation banning self-pardons and pardons of crimes authorized by the president.

4. A Constitutional Amendment banning self-pardons and pardons of crimes authorized by the president.

5. Prosecution of Bush, Cheney, and their subordinates for their crimes.

Please sign the petition:
http://democrats.com/nadler-pardons
 

Uhoud Abdulmajeed (184)
Friday November 21, 2008, 9:31 am
Ok marion I will forward it to all my friends and ask them to forward it to them friends too.
 

Peace Monger (185)
Friday November 21, 2008, 9:35 am
I support H.Res. 1531 and ask that you, as my Senators and
Representative in Washington support it too! America has spoken with our recent vote; we want change and we want all of the crimes committed against us by the current administration, prosecuted to the maximum allowed under US Law!
Many thanx Marion for the 'heads up' on this petition!
 

Deborah Hooper (59)
Friday November 21, 2008, 9:40 am
The amazingly wonderful thing about this, is that it is unconstitutional and so can't be upheld. If someone has the balls and protection to bring indictments they can. Anything that is unconstitutional is unconstitutional from the start, not from when it is deemed unconstitutional. They can't pardon themselves. It doesn't work that way.
 

Marion Y (322)
Friday November 21, 2008, 9:42 am
I was #101 when I signed one hour after the petition was opened two hours ago. In a little more than two hours, 782 people have signed!

Uhoud and Kim ~ Thank you for forwarding and signing! I'm encouraged we might see justice yet for these crooks.
 

Deborah Hooper (59)
Friday November 21, 2008, 9:47 am
I didn't sign this. I clicked the link for the Resolution and got a blank page. Then I googled H. R. 1531 and found that it is a decency in video games resolution. ??? Someone needs to find the right bill. Then I'll write letters, faxes and emails till I'm blue in the face.
 

Marion Y (322)
Friday November 21, 2008, 10:10 am
Deborah ~ Sorry you weren't able to access the page. I am still able to acess the page. Here's the link again:

http://www.democrats.com/nadler-pardons

 

Marion Y (322)
Friday November 21, 2008, 10:12 am
Deborah ~ Try going in through the front door and see if that will get you to HR 1531. Thanks for your efforts!

http://www.democrats.com/
 

Marion Y (322)
Friday November 21, 2008, 10:14 am

Reference to HR 1531 can also be found here:

http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/
 

Deborah Hooper (59)
Friday November 21, 2008, 10:24 am
Thank You! Signed!
 

Past Member (0)
Friday November 21, 2008, 10:29 am
Thanks for the link Marion...Now at 981 signatories...

What was that you said about non-US signatories Marion? :) (Where there's a will, there's a way...

Dear David Buchan,

Thank you for signing our "Support Nadler Resolution on Bush Pardons" petition at:
http://www.democrats.com/nadler-pardons

As the 981st person to sign this petition, you are helping us reach our goal of signatures.
 

Past Member (0)
Friday November 21, 2008, 10:31 am
Noted. Sorry unable to sign as I live in the United Kingdom. But will forward. Thanks.
 

Pamylle G (461)
Friday November 21, 2008, 10:33 am
Signed !
 

kat y (400)
Friday November 21, 2008, 10:36 am
signed, forwarded, and sent on to others also in emails!
 

Marion Y (322)
Friday November 21, 2008, 10:37 am
David ~ WAY TO GO, MY FRIEND!!! I remember your recent post on this issue lamenting Bush getting away with his crimes. The Universe is listening. Almost 1000 signatures in less than 3 hours. Democrats.com has over 100,000 members, so this should be encouraging and grow exponentially.

Deborah ~ So glad you got through. I know this is right up your alley in the work you do for the cause.
 

Dave Kane (308)
Friday November 21, 2008, 10:38 am
Finally! Nadler getting off his butt and instead of sitting on the impeachment resolution FOREVER, he seems to be making some waves. I signed but I ain't holding my breath -- the World Court might be the only ones to go after these thugs if we don't clean up -- or at least Attempt to clean up -- our own mess. ; /

A good sign though ; )
 

Marion Y (322)
Friday November 21, 2008, 10:40 am
Pearl, Pamylle and Kat ~ Thank you all for forwarding and signing. This may be the one petition we have all been waiting for!

 

Raymond M (156)
Friday November 21, 2008, 10:41 am
Noted and signed. Way to go David.
 

. (0)
Friday November 21, 2008, 10:42 am
signed and noted thank you
 

Past Member (0)
Friday November 21, 2008, 10:46 am
Bush, indeed should be punished
& then run out of the country for good!!


"In the end
we will conserve
only what we love.
We love only what we
understand. We will understand
only what we are taught."
-Baba Dioum

Plant trees for life.....Hopilegends.com/........
 

charles m (1677)
Friday November 21, 2008, 10:47 am
hi thanks marion yea and make sure he hangs then come for blir.
 

Judith Jaehn (199)
Friday November 21, 2008, 10:59 am
Thanks to both friends Marion and Uhoud who also forwarded this for Marion. Sighed and sent to a lot of others!!!! Noted!
 

Robin S (365)
Friday November 21, 2008, 11:10 am
Thanks so much Marrion...Signed and sent on to friends and family! Hugz, Robin
Thank you for signing our "Support Nadler Resolution on Bush Pardons" petition at:
http://www.democrats.com/nadler-pardons

As the 1284th person to sign this petition, you are helping us reach our goal of signatures.
 

Kristen T (73)
Friday November 21, 2008, 11:13 am
Noted and signed. Thanks for this Marion!
 

ROBIN M (312)
Friday November 21, 2008, 11:21 am
noted and signed.
 

(1)
Friday November 21, 2008, 11:24 am
Signed
 

Michael Owens (1647)
Friday November 21, 2008, 11:29 am
Singed and Sent
 

Marion Y (322)
Friday November 21, 2008, 11:31 am
Angels, that's what you all are!!

Thank you for signing this important petition.

1314 signatures up to this point!
 

Deborah Hooper (59)
Friday November 21, 2008, 11:35 am
I have to disagree with you Bette, they should be made to pay with everything they hold dear, their lives and their wealth. The good thing about globalization, they can't hide.
 

CHIEF DUBIE (213)
Friday November 21, 2008, 11:36 am
PETITON SIGNED: America has been Bushwhacked, but it started with Prescott Bush, handed down to George Herbert Walker Bush, to JR., he is but a symptom of this deep rooted problem, but a very good place to start!!!
 

Deborah Hooper (59)
Friday November 21, 2008, 11:39 am
The Walker side of the family isn't innocent either. Kitty Kelly's book, The Family, is very revealing. No, she isn't a crackpot, only to those whose toes she has stepped on.
 

Judith Jaehn (199)
Friday November 21, 2008, 11:47 am
Deborah, I also read the book and you are right! The whole stinking family are guilty! I have also read the Bush Dynasty! Jesus, what a read! I think I'll read it again! The rest of the family doesn't get a free ride from me! No wonder Bushes other brother and his only sister stays away from him! Yes, there are other Bushes that have not reared their heads yet! But, give them time! Noted!
 

Michele D (320)
Friday November 21, 2008, 11:52 am
Petition signed, this is noted & a big thank you goes out to my friend Marion for this article!

Blessings,
FreeSpiritRunning...
 

Jillyanne M (718)
Friday November 21, 2008, 11:58 am
Thank you so much for sending this my way! The addition of my signature has been proudly submitted now.
 

Christine M (63)
Friday November 21, 2008, 12:00 pm
thanks, marion and david for making sure i got this... noted, signed and forwarded...:)
 

Ginger Geronimo (438)
Friday November 21, 2008, 12:05 pm
Signed
 

Past Member (0)
Friday November 21, 2008, 12:06 pm
Noted ,signed the petition and thanks Marion !
Never before has a President pardoned himself because it is not legal according to the Constitution for a President to pardon himself ! But that won't stop Bush ,,the Constitution never has before and I suspect it won't now either.
As far as this petition goes although I signed it I found it a bit silly because Bush is not going to care how many people sign a petition ,all he is going to be caring about his covering his own arse and his cronies.
 

Stephen Hannon (203)
Friday November 21, 2008, 1:07 pm
Noted and signed. Thank you for the link to Nader's request to stop Bush's pardons.
 

Joycey B (750)
Friday November 21, 2008, 1:24 pm
Signed and noted with thanks Marion.
 

Past Member (0)
Friday November 21, 2008, 1:32 pm
Signed with the fallowing quote
in the message box of the petition:


The things that will destroy us are:
politics without principle;
pleasure without conscience;
wealth without work;
knowledge without character;
business without morality;
science without humanity;
and worship without sacrifice.

Plant trees for life.....Hopilegends.com/......
 

Marion Y (322)
Friday November 21, 2008, 1:38 pm
Thank you all for signing!! We have 1768 signatures!
 

Nancy M (168)
Friday November 21, 2008, 2:03 pm
I just signed too. Thanks for posting this!
 

Elm M (357)
Friday November 21, 2008, 2:31 pm
I signed as a non-USA citizen. Had to fudge my zip code, as it wants zip codes with five digits. Someone tell these petitioners that they can't say in one breath it is okay for a non-USA citizen to vote and then still demand a USA compliant zip code! You are going to lose signatures because of this silly error - not everyone is going to do what I did. Came up with a 'state mismatch' error, but still accepted the signature.
 

Marion Y (322)
Friday November 21, 2008, 3:00 pm
Thank you Nancy and Eureka!! 2705 signatures!!

Eureka ~ I'm glad you went ahead and signed. As David said, "Where there's a will, there's a way."
 

Nora J (229)
Friday November 21, 2008, 3:05 pm
I agree, Eureka. I did the same but I find the same thing with many of the petitions. They are a bit mixed up and probably lose a lot of signatures this way.
 

Evelyn Z (300)
Friday November 21, 2008, 3:14 pm
1. Submitting to C.W. Bill Young . . .
2. Submitting to Bill Nelson . . .
3. Submitting to Mel Martinez . . .
Done!
 

Susan M (239)
Friday November 21, 2008, 3:53 pm
NOTED ACTION DONE THANK-YOU
 

stephanie l (98)
Friday November 21, 2008, 3:55 pm
noted and signed
 

Marion Y (322)
Friday November 21, 2008, 4:05 pm
Thank you my friends for signing!!

We have contributed to the 3731 signatures for the petition!!

 

John Buddeke (36)
Friday November 21, 2008, 4:31 pm
noted and signed
 

Bryon Carter (30)
Friday November 21, 2008, 5:05 pm
Noted and signed with enthusiasm. Thank you Marion for bring this petition to mine (our) attention.
 

David Gould (155)
Friday November 21, 2008, 5:08 pm
The Secret of Peace

Only when this inner still
descends upon my soul
can I hear the world weep
for all its children’s pain.

By David Gould © 3rd September 2008

And I signed it...all the way from Scotland...because you can tell computer systems that Scotland is a state in the USA...I will say no more than that...come on geeks you work it out...everyone in the world can and should sign this one. Hitler tried this trick...the parallels in history are uncanny.
 

Vanda H (459)
Friday November 21, 2008, 7:25 pm
Thank you Kat and Marion..I recieved it my private email today and signed it and also forwarded it ..Please everyone crosspost this and keep it going to as many friends as you can! No ONE IS ABOVE THE LAWS OF OUR LAND!
 

. (0)
Friday November 21, 2008, 7:37 pm
I have Signed and commented. I seen on msn news Chaney is being impeached and Gonzalas too so it was a matter of time that Bush was to get his too. After all they took orders from him. Thanks Marion and Thank you Christine for the foward.
 

Past Member (0)
Friday November 21, 2008, 9:16 pm
Thank you for participating in Democrats.com, the largest independent community of Democratic Party activists, with over 500,000 members.

 

Tom M (814)
Friday November 21, 2008, 10:13 pm
Thanks Marion for posting this and thanks Marieemma for forwarding it to me... Presidents should NEVER be allowed to pardon people who aid them in implementing or covering up their crimes. This policy only encourages wrongdoing and destroys what little faith people have in the American justice system. No one should be above the law, especially those who are responsible for upholding it. Also, laws should not be able to be changed and applied retroactively to protect those like Bush who who illegally spied on and tortured people either. Justice must be served if this nation is to survive.

What ever happened to "we are a nation of laws and not of men"? Haven't heard many politicians say that for a long time. From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia...

The rule of law, in its most basic form, is the principle that no one is above the law. Thomas Paine stated in his pamphlet Common Sense (1776): "For as in absolute governments the king is law, so in free countries the law ought to be king; and there ought to be no other."
 

Electra Cy (1005)
Friday November 21, 2008, 10:13 pm
Wow! 3 Letters at a time. :)

DONE! Will try to send on this weekend.
 

Janet Wintle (87)
Friday November 21, 2008, 11:33 pm
For those who do not know your history!
When Gods roamed the Earth they left in charge the Kings and Queens to be responsible for all the rightful ways of living. They were to set an example to the people of the world the correct ways of Dress, Marriage, and Laws were put in place that had to be adhered to. It was one of there laws that there blood line was kept pure. Only one of there own kind were they aloud to Marry. As years whent by there blood line became week and it was decided to intermarry to give more strength to there blood line. This done they have continued to this day at trying only to marry there own royal blood line. The Government work and collect Taxes for the royals This they do on The King or Queens behalf. All the kingdom belongs to these who were put in charge and it is they who have power. The church are also very well chosen for the King or Queen have to answer to the highest authority, which is God. So the church are the representatives of God. It is with him to judge no other. God bless you all. Janet
 

Suzanna van der Voort (271)
Saturday November 22, 2008, 4:21 am
Noted, signed, will crosspost and share. (I have signed with 00000 as Zip and I was accepted, even there was a "mismatch")
Done!
Thanks Marion and Marieemma T. for sending this to me.
 

Dorothy Commander (61)
Saturday November 22, 2008, 5:37 am
Please be careful what you sign:
H.R. 1531, The Video Game Decency Act of 2007 (2 comments ↓)
H.R. 1531 would prohibit deceptive acts and practices in the content rating and labeling of video games.

The correct bill is
H. Res. 1531: Expressing the sense of the House of Representatives that the President of the United...
Expressing the sense of the House of Representatives that the President of the United States should not issue pardons to senior members of his administration during the final 90 days of his term of office.

~ita
 

Dorothy Commander (61)
Saturday November 22, 2008, 5:40 am
P.S. Noted and signed
 

Marion Y (322)
Saturday November 22, 2008, 6:52 am
ita ~ Thank you for the clarification on H. Res. 1531.

David G ~ Beautiful poem as an expression of awareness. Much thanks.

Tom M ~ Well said. We need to send a message to Bush that he was never a king with absolute power.

Janet ~ Your point is well taken. Yes, ultimately Bush and his friends will be judged by God. In the meantime, we must protect our country from these people and any others who would want to commit crimes as they have.

Many thanks to everyone who has signed and commented.

We have contributed to the 7908 signatures so far within a 23 hour period!!

Would you like to track H. Res. 1531? Go here and sign up:
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=hr110-1531
 

Goddess Lozz (213)
Saturday November 22, 2008, 9:33 am
Noted and signed, thanks Marion.
 

Marion Y (322)
Saturday November 22, 2008, 9:41 am
Thank you, Goddess.

We have now contributed to 9880 signatures in a little over 24 hours!!

 

Susan L (118)
Saturday November 22, 2008, 10:06 am
Noted and signed. Thank you.
 

Barry Seth (118)
Saturday November 22, 2008, 2:56 pm

This email address has already submitted a comment for this issue.
 

Past Member (0)
Saturday November 22, 2008, 3:16 pm
Actually it's easy for non-US citizens to sign it...

Just choose non-US state and write a 5 digit zip code :)
 

Amy B (39)
Saturday November 22, 2008, 6:48 pm
NOTED AND SIGNED! i was #18885...we need more signatures and more people to sign...
 

Wolfweeps P (251)
Saturday November 22, 2008, 9:15 pm
noted and signed and forwarded
 

LucyKaleido ScopeEyes (82)
Sunday November 23, 2008, 3:56 am
Better late than never -- that goes for my signing, as well as for justice for the White House criminals & their underlings.

Thank you, Marion, for the post and for the tracking link. I'll do that.


God's justice is fine and dandy, if you believe in a day of reckoning, but I believe what I see; I want to be around to enjoy it and see their guilt established; : it might look something like this.
 

LucyKaleido ScopeEyes (82)
Sunday November 23, 2008, 4:25 am

Kim's comment up there inspired me, so I added this message with my signature:

"I support H. Res. 1531 and ask that you, as my Senators and
Representative in Washington, support it, too! America has spoken via our recent Presidential vote; we want change and we want all of the crimes committed against us, against the U.S. Constitution, against the Geneva Convention, and against the Universal Declaration of Human Rights by the current administration, as well as those acting under their authority, such as their defense contractors and other executants, to be prosecuted to the maximum allowed under U.S. Law!"

I hope I didn't leave anything out !

Otherwise, that site is a gold mine for petitions. If I'm not careful, I could spend the whole day there.
 

Marion Y (322)
Sunday November 23, 2008, 7:36 am
Alba Nuova ~ I knew you would sign this petition when you found out about it. Excellent comments added to the petition from you and Kim. It looks like you covered everything. This brings to mind that our signatures stand out with legislators when we add our own thoughtful words to blanket petitions. That picture you linked to warms my heart!

Many thanks to everyone who has signed and commented!!

We have contributed to the 22,309 signatures so far within a 48 hour period!!

Also, this article made #4 on Google because of all the hits. This reflects the exponential power of the members at Care2 and the reach of our friends and contacts. Each person has a voice, and each of us does make a difference!!
 

Peace Monger (185)
Sunday November 23, 2008, 8:14 am

Weee doggie Marion, over 22,000 sigs in 48 hours??! :O That's amazing!
Thanx for yours and Alba's kind words, I wrote what I felt the clowns in DC needed to be reminded of; that they represent ME (& YOU), not their self-interests and if they ignore us, the people, they can kiss their jobs good-bye cuz we'll send them packing just like those who lost their seats this past election!
Marion, take a bow woman; by posting this petition you've sent ripples across the country. (I wonder how many of the signatures came directly from your posting?) Ripples are the beginnings of tidal waves; I'm looking for a tidal wave supporting H. Res. 1531 to wash over Washington and finally show the crooks we, the people will not tolerate corruption by our so called leaders! Bravo to all for supporting and most of all to our own dear Marion for posting!
 

CHIEF DUBIE (213)
Sunday November 23, 2008, 9:39 am
The Bush conservatives/ moral majority not only took over the media they took over every other institution as well, with the secret (loyalists) societies in the universities! They have taken over the corporations, the governments, athletics, academics, religion...Americas royalty is granted through the universities, by degrees of nobility!!! And it is this noble class that is in control, and they are trying to control the whole world!!! We have given our nation to this beast, by granting special privilege to the ruling class, the champions, thus making the rest of us losers, and their subject, and as long as we worship the rich and famous, the Czars will rule us with a rod of iron, and deception, division, mass confusion, hypocrisy, censorship, and plagiarism!!! Force is the last option, after they have turned we/ us against ourselves, when they swoop in for the kill, to protect us from ourselves!!!
Marion, you have a grass roots movement being formed right here, we have a good start, but we must not stop here, we have just begun to fight!!!
 

Glenda J (158)
Sunday November 23, 2008, 11:47 am
I fully support this Petition and Push forward with all intent to make everything that the Bush Administration did in the last eight years that pushed US THE PEOPLE of this country over the edge.
 

Tsandi Crew (95)
Sunday November 23, 2008, 12:49 pm
In order to make Bush's work questionable, he must be impeached. Then the things he did to our constitution and our rights can be nullified and we can be restored.
 

Marion Y (322)
Sunday November 23, 2008, 1:30 pm
Kim and Chief Dubie ~ Thank you for the encouraging words. This couldn't happen without the help of you and all of us here. It would be good to know how many at Care2 are contributing to this petition. I wouldn't be surprised if it is significant because many will sign the petition without noting or commenting here. Also, many will forward the link to friends and contacts and we have no idea how far that reach is. As Chief said, "a grass roots movement..."

More important, Tsandi Crew said, holding Bush and his friends accountable for their crimes is critical the Constitution, our rights as well as the welfare of the world. Supporting H. Res. 1531 is a start in lieu of impeachment.

Many thanks to everyone who has signed and commented!!

We have contributed to the 24,872 signatures so far within a 2 day period!!
 

Marion Y (322)
Monday November 24, 2008, 7:47 am
We have contributed to 29,020 signatures so far within a 3 day period!!
 

Past Member (0)
Monday November 24, 2008, 11:59 am
Yes Marion and it's largely your fault!...Nadler will hate you when he fronts up for work and sees all the mail piled up on his desk, spilling over onto the floor...Congratulations!
 

Past Member (0)
Monday November 24, 2008, 11:52 pm
Dear David Buchan,

Thank you for signing our "Support Nadler Resolution on Bush Pardons" petition at:
http://www.democrats.com/nadler-pardons

As the 32685th person to sign this petition, you are helping us reach our goal of signatures.
 

Marion Y (322)
Tuesday November 25, 2008, 6:47 am
David!! How many times have you signed the petition?!! Is this your 3rd time signing? If so, this means the democrats.com tally system is no better than the US election electronic voting system, LOL! Leave it to an Aussie to make a mockery of our corrupt systems in place that have long served us...until now. I just don't know what to make of this. What shall I do? I know, I'll try to submit another signature and see if it takes mine again...

Submitting...

Submitting...

"This email address has already submitted a comment for this issue. You can select another issue to comment on here."

Ah, the system would not me to submit again with the same email address. Forgive me, my friend, for jumping to conclusions.

Are we still friends?

David?

David? Thank you so much for signing!

Anyhoo, we have contributed to 32,853 signatures so far within a 4 day period!!
 

Deborah Hooper (59)
Tuesday November 25, 2008, 12:00 pm
WooHoo! This is Great!

After reading through all the comments, I'm going to be putting a Constitution class up on my blog. Give me a few days to get this done. Probably first of next week. It is obvious to me that most don't have a clue about their constitutionally protected rights. You see, you were born with these rights, rights can't be taken away. They are not constitutional rights, but constitutionally protected rights. They are also not privileges. Privileges are what we the people, we the governed, give to the government. They have no rights, only privileges. All privileges can be taken away. But first, we have to take responsibility for our actions. You see, government wouldn't be able to get away with anything if we knew our rights and protected them. We have for decades wanted to government to be the parent and take care of us all. That isn't the way it's set up to be. We are the parent, and we have let this child, our government run around spoiled and then delinquent to the point of criminal activities. We hired them to do a job for us, and it is a temp job at that. We let them get off track and out of control. If we want to take our country and our government back, we have to take responsibility and not just sit back and let them run unchecked. This is advanced citizenship. If you want a democratic republic, you have to stay on top of what they are doing and keep them on the right track. You can't just sit back and hope they will do the right thing. As their employer, we have to make sure they are doing the job we hired them to do and not taking home office supplies, or punching out early, or doing anything not in their job description. Guess what, their job description is listed in the Constitution.

Now, let's take our country and our government back, and they let's do our job as employer to keep them in line.
 

Marion Y (322)
Tuesday November 25, 2008, 1:09 pm
Excellent comment Deborah!! I agree we the citizens need to stay engaged, involved and on top of our government.

However, look at all the petitions around the internet, let alone those right here at Care2, on all the issues, primarily those that should have been taken care of by the US government. The average citizen doesn't have the time to get involved with all these issues, nor do many have the desire after working hard all day.

At what point do we expect integrity and honesty from our leaders where we can trust them to do the right thing on our behalf? It seems to me this particular resolution and petition should not be happening with an honest government.
 

Past Member (0)
Tuesday November 25, 2008, 1:41 pm
I HOPE we are still friends Marion, I need you badly. How bad can you be? :) I've found a really nice tree and have begun building a little nest in it for us...Tons of storage for your winter nuts and mine too. :) X

C'mon guys...How many email addresses do you have?...Gmail, Yahoo etc.?

Dear David Buchen,

Thank you for signing our "Support Nadler Resolution on Bush Pardons" petition at:
http://www.democrats.com/nadler-pardons

As the 33467th person to sign this petition, you are helping us reach our goal of signatures.
 

Deborah Hooper (59)
Tuesday November 25, 2008, 3:16 pm
You are right, Marion, it is not an easy job, and most just want to live their lives in quiet apathy. But, that is exactly what has gotten us to this point, isn't it? We have let them do too many things that they had no right to do. End of the gold standard, Central bank, IRS, CIA, FBI, NSA, Standing Army (on the ground in the US to keep you and I in line) and more. These are not the job of our government. Our schools were better before our government got involved in the 50's, we were #1 in the world, with Russia a distant 2nd. We have let this go on and on and on for decades, and probably for over a century or more. What did Ben Franklin say, "It's a republic, if you can keep it." We sure didn't, did we?

We either need to scale it back to what it is supposed to be, or scrap it and start again. Then we need to keep it in line and keep everything out in the open. No more of this classified crap. We are the boss and they can only work at the consent of the governed, us.

Fixing it won't be easy, starting over would be just as difficult. I'm not even sure we know how we want our government run. Which is probably the place to start.

Still, I see, the destruction of the rain forests, having to save the wolves, bears, eagles and more as a symptom of a failed system that has gotten bloated to the point that it is unrecognizable. Fix "the" problem, and all the rest will fall in line. First, we have to figure out how we want our government to run and write it down, have it signed and have every one that seeks office and wins swear an oath to protect it, and hold them to it. They take an oath now with their fingers crossed. Swearing to protect the Constitution and then not doing so is an act of treason, punishable by fines, imprisonment, and death.

No, it won't be easy, but if we don't start taking some responsibility we will no longer be.
 

Marion Y (322)
Tuesday November 25, 2008, 4:18 pm
David ~ Of course we are still friends, tree and all.

Wait a minute...

how bad can YOU be?

You have compromised the tally using another last name, no less!

Methinks the enchantment is over and you are trying our friendship.

What say you...friend?

I'm throwing nuts out of our tree!
 

Marion Y (322)
Tuesday November 25, 2008, 4:27 pm
"First, we have to figure out how we want our government to run and write it down, have it signed and have every one that seeks office and wins swear an oath to protect it, and hold them to it. They take an oath now with their fingers crossed. Swearing to protect the Constitution and then not doing so is an act of treason, punishable by fines, imprisonment, and death."

Deborah ~ Beautifully said!! Yes, we will have to start thinking about what we truly want and hold our leaders accountable. There are some good model systems that have been proposed. Any number of them would work. The key ingredient is involvement and integrity.
 

Past Member (0)
Tuesday November 25, 2008, 6:33 pm
Ooooooops Marion you are right about that, the name...You won't believe this but it was an accident! (Trueish) It's the address that counts...As for the nuts, typical wifey, what a mess...BAD!...Yes I can be very trying but worry often, it's ok, I called a councellor and I've forgotten you already.

COME HOME ALL IS FORGIVEN!...If you really care. Do you? just a little, just a teensy, weensy little tiny bit? You TART!
 

Marion Y (322)
Tuesday November 25, 2008, 8:13 pm
Not to worry David. I never left the tree and I would be foolish to throw out the nuts. Sorry to send you to the counselor already, but you could have saved your money for more nuts if you had just done some deep breathing for a couple of hours. We're still friends. But 'Tart' is a no-no...
-----

On a more serious note, the Bush pardon issue stays in the news, but nothing is being said about this Nadler H. Res. 1531 Resolution. Hmmm...

Jonathan Turley, George Washington University Law Professor who is the loudest voice for charging Bush with war crimes said Bush might pardon himself but if he did it "would raise very serious questions and indeed I think it would trigger a Constitutional Amendment being offered to restrict this power from future Presidents."

Turley also said blanket pre-emptive pardons for everyone in his administration are "a strong possibility."

"Most of the arguments against these blanket pardons are going to the White House and saying look, this would be an abuse of executive power, it would be the use of absolute power, it would set a terrible precedent. Those are the very arguments this President has ignored for the past 8 years. And many people believe these would be consistent with his view of the Presidency. And in some ways he may be emboldened by not having anything to lose. He could pardon posthumously Saddam Hussein and his numbers wouldn't statistically go down. So there is a concern about that. It would set a very very bad precedent because a President could effectively have the most felonious administration and then give a general pardon to everyone who helped him with his crimes."

ttp://www.democrats.com/jonathan-turley-says-blanket-pardons-are-a-strong-possiblity
 

Linda H (199)
Tuesday November 25, 2008, 8:32 pm
Noted& Signed with must pleasure! Thanks,Marion.
 

Past Member (0)
Tuesday November 25, 2008, 10:15 pm
Yes Marion, not looking good...Can find nothing other than the petitionsite, still surfing... in the meantime...

Dear David Buchan,

Thank you for signing our "Impeach Bush To Stop Pardons" petition at:
http://www.democrats.com/pardon

As the 47319th person to sign this petition, you are helping us reach our goal of signatures.
 

Marion Y (322)
Friday November 28, 2008, 2:40 pm
We have contributed to the 34,728 signatures so far.
 

Marion Y (322)
Tuesday December 2, 2008, 2:10 pm
David ~ At your suggestion, I have a call in to Rep. Nadler's office to find out where this resolution and the petition stands. I will report my findings here when his office gets back to me.

We have contributed to the 45,817 signatures so far!!
 

Past Member (0)
Tuesday December 2, 2008, 2:22 pm
So many thankyous Marion...I guess that this thingy does not support the 'majority' and so many more will not...T%he 'majority' lies? here...Go with it my friend Marion is not an entity to be fooled with...
 
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