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U.S. Looks Increasingly Irrelevant as Mideast Peace Broker

World  (tags: world, middle-east, news, politics, usa, government, ethics, israel )

- 2829 days ago -
There is little reason at this point to believe that Washington's efforts will bear fruit.


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. (0)
Friday October 21, 2011, 5:37 pm
"We want to see the two parties, the Palestinians and the Israelis, get back into direct negotiations. And that's where are our focus remains,"

Don't we all? - What the hell has peace in the middle east got to do with the USA?

Ellen m (215)
Friday October 21, 2011, 7:50 pm
The US looks increasingly irrelevant as a peace broker betwoon Democrats and repuglicans here as well!
Thanks Cal

Terry King (113)
Friday October 21, 2011, 8:13 pm
Excellent news... We should strive for irrelevance in the middle east!

Stephen Brian (23)
Friday October 21, 2011, 9:40 pm
The U.S. has interests everywhere, including Israel. However, its intervention (and that of other foreign powers) has only ever stalled or outright counteracted the peace process. The central fact that must be accepted by both sides in negotiation for there to be any hope of peace is the power-relation between them with respect to the issue of conflict (both in terms of possession and willingness to use power), and that power-relation must be stable. No peace has ever lasted which did not reflect that relation, and arguably the point of war is to change or clarify that relation. Also, no peace has ever been established when the sides expected the power-relation to change in the near future but could not decide which way it would go.

The U.S.'s favour and that of the rest of the world is a major part of the current power-relation. As the position of the U.S. on any foreign policy may change every four years, and the other relevant powers are even less predictable, the appearance of foreign willingness to apply power to affect the relevant situation has destabilized the power-relation. Also, the propaganda-campaigns in the West are arguably another front in the war and nobody is quite certain who is winning over Western voters. While the U.S. may have only the best intentions, by its nature its involvement, except in assisting implementation of an already-accepted peace agreement, is counterproductive.

Past Member (0)
Saturday October 22, 2011, 4:16 am

Douglas S (1)
Saturday October 22, 2011, 6:15 am

Marco C (31)
Saturday October 22, 2011, 6:30 am
Who could be surprised, we have been sowing contradictions and inconsistancies overseas for years. I guess we can't fool folks any longer. They are no longer looking to us, but rather investing in their own democracies.

We are so good at fooling ourselves that we are now applying our failed international policies domestically, right here at home. Why waste perfectly good totalitarian tactics, we could apply them to surpress our own populaton. Some aren't buying it.

Rita White (55)
Saturday October 22, 2011, 8:21 am
thanks for the informaton

Mira Rhame (17)
Saturday October 22, 2011, 9:50 am
I still believe in miracles, and the will to do good on everyone's behalf..

. (0)
Saturday October 22, 2011, 11:40 am
When Began and Sadat signed their peace treaty in the 70's, Carter had an easier time of it. The Egyptians were slaughtered by Israel in three wars.Israel was willing to give up the Sinai, reducing the country to less than half. This is the only time Israel gave up land for peace.
Sadat is murdered by extremists in his own military, but the agreement to this day has held tight.
Today, we have a President who is clearly out of his league. This peace agreement is between Israel, and a terrorist organization that does not acknowledge Israel. One would think Hamas should have no say in these peace talks. Yet, Obama does not take this position, and the talks are at a stalemate.

Past Member (0)
Saturday October 22, 2011, 11:56 am
It is another sign of our weakness--
Though,some of the U.S people would like to see us in this position,it really isn't a good thing.
Our" Irrelevance " hurts this country as it is a sign we are viewed,not as a power so much,but
as a country that has lost credibility and leadership standing.
For nations to look elsewhere,says it all.


Past Member (0)
Saturday October 22, 2011, 12:05 pm
As long as the U.S. is (at least perceived as) strongly pro-Israel, then how can they broker peace?

But in fairness, I don't think anyone can broker that peace right now. Still, never lose faith that it can happen. Here in the U.K., peace has come to Northern Ireland and there was a time when no-one would have believed that possible.

Past Member (0)
Saturday October 22, 2011, 1:06 pm
The USI can never broker peace in the ME as it is in the Zionist Entity's pocket. Good grief, it wouldn't even condemn Jew-only colonies in the West Bank at the UN despite it being a part of USI foreign policy that these colonies are illegal and these colonies are seen by the rest of the world as illegal.

Mike m (9)
Saturday October 22, 2011, 1:07 pm
I don't really imagine that the US had all that much "relevance" in the "Peace Process" since the end of the Cold War. It was one thing to have Uncle Sam glowering at the Russian Bear over the middle east like it was a chessboard. Carter probably came the closest to really selling peace, but in the end, no one was buying. No one is buying now, either. My imagination isn't fertile enough to conceive of a peaceful way for this mess to end.

Fred Krohn (34)
Saturday October 22, 2011, 1:19 pm
America needs you, Harry Truman...

Past Member (0)
Saturday October 22, 2011, 2:42 pm
Does this surprise me not even the least it truely doesn't with the president we have today he is to much of kiss ass and doesn't really care what happens to the USA.

Nelson Baker (0)
Saturday October 22, 2011, 4:36 pm
I hope peace comes to the middle east.

Past Member (0)
Saturday October 22, 2011, 6:13 pm
It will never come while the Zionist Entity exists.

Alexandra Rodda (180)
Sunday October 23, 2011, 12:42 am
I wonder whether Carol H. really means what she wrote. Maybe she should take over and fix this situation.
Problem is that there has been too much blood spilled on both sides and too many atrocities (black, dark, evil deeds) committed by them.
Not only have both of them "gone too far", but both are spurred on by a miasma of both ancient (Israel) and medieval (Palestine) religious superstition and fanaticism. This is indeed a toxic brew. To expect the USA or anyone else to broker peace is a big ask.
Maybe God will intervene.

Past Member (0)
Sunday October 23, 2011, 1:46 am
It's little to do with religion. A bunch of Europeans and Americans who happened to be Jews colonised part of Palestine. The resistance to this was secular - who can claim that Fatah were Islamists? However, over the years, the Zionists have increasingly polarised the struglle by referring to religious rights. At the same time they covertly supported Hamas with arms and money as a counterweight to Fatah. Now threy reap the whirlwind to come - they will have to accept a unitary state or go back to Brooklyn.

Marianna Molnar (9)
Sunday October 23, 2011, 5:00 am
the credibility of the US to bring peace to the Middle East after Iraq and Afghanistan has been lowered below Zero.

Brenda Towers (0)
Sunday October 23, 2011, 10:30 am
America has been too biased in favour of Israel. So no wonder progress has been so slow.

Alicia N (87)
Sunday October 23, 2011, 11:51 am
noted with thanks

Past Member (0)
Sunday October 23, 2011, 2:14 pm
@John D. - It appears you're an anti-Semite or else you'd bother to check the history of the region and the Jewish people. Did jews always live in America or Europe? No, genius, they came from Israel. They were exiled by the Romans 2000 years ago but a good amount stayed there and were there well before the existence of Islam and the Arab conquest of the region. But people like you don't deal in facts, just ignorance and hatred. Sig heil.

Past Member (0)
Sunday October 23, 2011, 2:28 pm
Oh dear. I wonderwed how long it woukl take for the redundant anti-semite card to be played.

Jews don't come from Palestine, they come from the countries they were born in, which are mainly countries in Europe and the Americas, as well as the Mizrahi Jews from the East.. Today's Jews have no connection with the holy land, none at all - apart from those descended from the 3% of the population of Palestine who were Jews before the Zionist colonisation started in the late 19th century. And, of course, those Jews living in Palestine were to a person against the Zionist project. They knew what a disaster it would be for them and for world Jewry and they were right.

Stephen Brian (23)
Sunday October 23, 2011, 6:52 pm
Hi John,

I would like to see some documentation on the claim that every Jew living in the region before modern Zionism was against the project for the reasons you claimed. Also, today's Israeli Jews are primarily descended from Middle Eastern Jews, not European and American. European Jews were more politically organized and ended up both a the top of the social ladder (as Britain was in charge during the Mandate era and they dealt with it better, or for whatever other reason I don't know) and the culture shifted towards that of European Jewry.

That said, today's Jews very much have a connection to the land. This will go over the heads of the vast majority of Care2 posters, but I'll try to explain: Judaism dates from the era of theocracies, when there was no distinction between ethnicity, nationality, and religion. Back then, if you moved to a new place, you generally took on its customs and religion. Judaism has primarily been recognized as a religion, but its much of its national elements have survived until today. Since the original Babylonian exile, Jews really have not lost any connection to the land. This would be like saying that second-generation members of expatriate Irish communities have no tie to Ireland.

Marianna Molnar (9)
Monday October 24, 2011, 12:20 am
Alexandara Rodda Kudos for you

Past Member (0)
Monday October 24, 2011, 12:54 am
"This would be like saying that second-generation members of expatriate Irish communities have no tie to Ireland". That's an absurd comparison. Of course 2nd generation anyone has ties to the place their parents came from as stories, descriptions and so on are handed down from LIVING MEMORY. Maybe even 3rd generation Jamaicans feel some conection to Jamaica as they hear stories from Granny. But then it stops, or very soon afterwards. Are you trying to say that modern day Black people in the USI feel some "connection" to Senagal because one of their distant ancestors MAY have come from there? and you are talking about a period far longer.

As for "descent", even if genes could be found relating to the ancient Hebrews in today's Jews, which has been tried and has failed - studies seem to indicate that Ashkenazi Jews and Sephardi Jews are descended from people north of the fertile crescent - the adulteration over the millenia negates any possible claim to a portion of someone else's land. The Falasha aren't descended from the ancient Jews, nor are the Berber Jews. Nor are the Iranian Jews. Others have intermarried, even if there were some descent, so extensively that there is no possible way to say that Jews are "from Palestine". And Judaism was a proselyting religion millenia ago. Those convertees also have a right to "return" (weasel words) despite no "connection" of descent to the land, which is the usual justification for the Zionist project nowadays?

No. It's colonisation against their will of another people's land and country. And it's an evil colonisation, truly evil. It has to go.

. (0)
Monday October 24, 2011, 1:58 am
IF I built a house/settlement in your backyard and Obama said "Stop the settlement!", would I? - Perhaps I would stop building for exactly ten months in an attempt to pacify the global outrage at my 'invasion' of your property, but then carry on until completed, much to your disdain. - IF Obama does not interfere again and probably never will. - IS it OK for me to live in your backyard forever, and would you mind terribly if my friends built houses in your backyard too?.

The U.S. IS Irrelevant as Mideast Peace Broker!

Past Member (0)
Monday October 24, 2011, 6:40 am
Just don't take part in dividing the land of Israel.

We are already in enough trouble with Creator.

Bob Algeron (47)
Monday October 24, 2011, 1:11 pm
Afgani Karzai said, that Afganistan would support Pakistan in case of a Pakistan' war with US. This, despite hundreds of US lives and billions of US dollars were spent on bringing democracy to Afganistan and despite multiple terror acts brought to Afganistan from Pakistan.

Looking at how many readers were surprised and upset by Karzai's comments, one can conclude that Americans have no clues about Islamic culture, differentiating between "brothers" and infidels. Americans are too soft and too naive to promote their goals in a adverse Islamic societies, especially in the Middle East.


Stephen Brian (23)
Monday October 24, 2011, 7:43 pm
Hi John,

The group to which you referred does not include Sephardic Jews at all, and not most Ashkenazi either: There was a region (I don't remember the name) on the frontier between Christian Europe and Islamic lands where the ruler realized that claiming one religion or the other would invite invasion, so he and his people converted to Judaism. there are those who claim that these converts were the only Jews of the time, and they are flat-out wrong. I don't know the history of Mizrahi Jews well enough to comment on them much, but until recently there was a continuous Jewish presence in Iraq since the Babylonian expulsion. Why not in Iran since the Persian conquest of Babylon?

The genetic linking was tried and succeeded. Communities which maintained early Jewish customs (not the later holidays like Chanukah) in Ethiopia and India, had been cut off from the larger Jewish community since the biblical era, and trace their histories back to the land of Israel were also found to have them. The old priestly caste has a specific set of genetic markers. Not only that, but in some cases the genealogy has been preserved. I found out last week that a friend of mine's grandfather's family can trace his lineage all the way back to the biblical era. That means she can too, back to David apparently.

First, I know Irish ex-pats who feel quite the connection to the nation and traditions even though their families migrated out of the land long before living memory. The problem with the African comparison is that while people of African descent are generally identifiable, they are not a nation. They do not have a unifying historically accurate communal narrative which is distinct from all others.

Out of curiosity, why do you think that Iranian Jews and Berber Jews (who, I understand, mostly went there from Spain after the Spanish Expulsion) have no genetic link? I know the Falasha Jews have the genetic marker. In the end, though, it doesn't really matter which ones have the descent. People can join a nation today through immigration and could join n old-style nation through conversion. That doesn't make them any less members of it.

Past Member (0)
Tuesday October 25, 2011, 7:15 am
The Berber Jews existed way before the Reconquest. They were amongst the fiercest resistance to the rise of Islam. There was even a Jewish Queen who organised this resistance. They were converts.

Bob Algeron (47)
Tuesday October 25, 2011, 9:18 am
John, to say "Jews don't come from Palestine, they come from the countries they were born in, which are mainly countries in Europe and the Americas" would be the same as to say that Palestinian Arabs did not come from Palestine (a.k.a. Israel, Judea and Samaria) - majority of them by now were also born in mainly countries in Europe and the Americas. You cannot deny historical homeland to Jews while supporting it for Arabs. After all, Jews are the natives there, expelled by Romans.

They had their own state for thousands of years - something that Arabs never did.

Coming or not coming of peace does not depend on Israel, or some Jews living in Judea and Samaria. Arab states are warring with each other, and cruelty of wars between Islamic countries by far exceeds all the Arab-Israeli wars combined.

ME peace may come when democracy, and not Sharia and religious indoctrination, will be relied on in Arab states. And not only peace with Israel, but with Cyprus, with Russia, with China, etc -everywhere where Islamists keep the fire burning.

Past Member (0)
Tuesday October 25, 2011, 9:53 am
That is just an ill-informed piece of propaganda, my friend. The Jews had a state for 1000s of years? No they didn't. That is a total lie, only supported (and only in part at that) by religious narratives such as the Bible. Where is the archealogical evidence for the Jews' sojourn in Egypt and their exodus and 40 year wanderings in the Sinai? There is none. The Patriarchs certainly never existed; the mere mention of caravan trains, which were not a feature of ME life until a 1000 years later than the supposed existence of these (non) historical figures showsd that these stories were concocted 100s of years later.

As for my assertion that Jews don't come from Palesatine, that is patently true. What you are confusing with your false analogy with Palestinians is that Palestinians dispersed around the world have a recent PROVABLE connection to Palestine. many may well (and do) consider themselves as being from the countries they were born in but they certainly have a right to consider themselves from there as that is where their parents are from. Jews, on the other hand have no such connection at all, apart from the 3% of the population of Palestine that was Jewish before the Zionist colonisation project began. You say yourself that "the Jews" were exiled by the Romans, so there is absolutely no connection between modern Jewry and descent from these supposed exiles. How can there be a connection from 2000 years ago? In any case, Zionism is a modern invention; there was no longing for a return until it reared its ugly head. And I'll let you into a secret. "The Jews" were not exiled byt he Romans. The Romans wwere not like the Babylonians or the Assyrians. They did not exile or displace whole populations. The leaders and the rich were exiled, the majority remained and converted to Christianity and later Islam, intermarried with Crusaders and Arabs to produce the Palestinians. The majority of Jews in the Roman world were converts, such as the Jewish tribes of the Arabian peninsula and the Berber Jews of the Maghreb. What connection do these have with Palestine? well, none, I hear you say.

As for Arab states warring with each other, which ones, pray, are at war with each other? Could you give me some examples?

For your information, Sharia law does not apply in most Arab states. If it did, Morocco, where I live, would be a very different place as Kings are forbidden by Islam. Yet I drink alcohol openly as do the Jews and Muslims here. The niqab is forbidden here, as it is in Belgium and France. Sharia does not apply in Tunisia or Lebanon. I could mention more.

As for Russia, I assume you are talking of the assault on the Muslim populations of the trans-Caucasus. What should these peoples do? Roll over and accept it as you would like the Palestinians to? I don't think so. And China, I can only imagine you are talking about the attempted eradication of the Uighurs as a people, culture and ethnicity. Again, why should they allow this to happen to themselves?

ME peace will come when the anomalous colony in Palestine is no more and Palestine is reunited again as a unitary state for all its 3 religions, just as it was before the horror of Zionism, that disaster for Zionism as well as world Jewry.

Past Member (0)
Tuesday October 25, 2011, 9:57 am
My last sentence should read:--

ME peace will come when the anomalous colony in Palestine is no more and Palestine is reunited again as a unitary state for all its 3 religions, just as it was before the horror of Zionism, that disaster for Palestine as well as world Jewry.

Bob Algeron (47)
Tuesday October 25, 2011, 7:07 pm
John, I am surprized you never heard about the King Solomon temple in Jerusalem. Arabs know it will, and built their mosque on that very place to reap the "sanctity" of the place. They did similar things to other churches and temples. If you read any history textbook, you will see traces of Jewish civilization by far happening before Arab masses moved to The Land of Israel.

Archealogical evidence for Israeli periods in Palestine/The Land of Israel is huge. Arabs usually manage to force museums to hide the ethnicity of artifacts and re-label them, but often truth becomes known.

Decrees about ethnic cleansing Palestine from the Jews are well known and proved, again, just look into any book on the region other than the ones given in madresses. Those may not have it.

You picture on Christian-Muslim-Jewish intermarriage in the Middle Ages sounds weird and unheard of. There is a proven genetic link between Jews.

You say, that Islam forbid Kings. Are you saying Saudi Arabia does not live by Islam? Or, UAE? Or, the difference is in terminology?

There is no disaster for the Jews in having Israel, and no disaster for Arabs. I've been to Israel, and saw Arabs, mosques, etc. Arabs have equal rights in Israel, and that's why Arab immigration into Israel is always big.

I won't say that ME peace won't come until the "Arab colony in Palestine is no more", because I think Jews and Arabs have to split the land somehow, and learn to live with each other. I will say, that it is Arab turn to switch from wars, boycotts, political aggression to respect and political cooperation.


Past Member (0)
Wednesday October 26, 2011, 2:16 am
"There is no disaster for the Jews in having Israel, and no disaster for Arabs. I've been to Israel, and saw Arabs, mosques, etc. Arabs have equal rights in Israel, and that's why Arab immigration into Israel is always big. "

I'm at work so can't address your points all at once. I'd like to say that Arabs cannot immigrate to the Zionist Entity. Even a Palestinian Arab with Entity citizenship (and living there legally) who marries a West Banker is forbidden to bring his/her spouse to the Entity.

The establishment of the Entity was an enormous disaster for world Jewry. Long established (and wealthy) communities of Jews in, for instance, Iraq and Egypt left their respective countries because of Zionist manipulation. Have you never heard of the Lavon Affair in which a group of Zionist spies was caught in Egypt trying to set bombs in American and Jewish establishments and leaving documents to try to pretend it was the Muslim Brotherhood that did it? They did this to try and create a climate of fear so that Jews would leave to become labourers in the Entity to replace the Palestinians who had been ethnically cleansed. Fortunately they were caught. And Giladi in the Jews of Iraq presents evidence that a similar operatio was carried out in Iraq to force the Iraqi Jews to leave.

Even today, many Moroccan Jews regret leaving Morocco, retain their citizenship (as Amir Peretzz does) and are returning here in ever increasing numbers.

Bob Algeron (47)
Wednesday October 26, 2011, 7:53 am
John, you are wrong about Arab immigration: Egypt even took the law stripping Egyptian citizenship from Arabs marrying Israelis and moving to Israel. This law applies only to Arabs immigrating to Israel, while Egypt supports dual citizenship for all other countries otherwise.

Jewish communities from Iraq, Egypt and many other Arab states were ethnically cleansed and robbed of their possessions by incited Arab mobs. Nobody would leave his wealth by his own will, John, and Jews were robbed for much bigger amounts than Arabs leaving Palestine ever had.

How will you explain expulsion of Christians from Arab states, West Bank and Gaza, whose manipulation is that?

I noticed that you use word "Zionist Entity" when referring to Israel. Should we be consistent and use "Egypt Arab Entity", "Judea Arab Entity", "Syria Arab Entity" as well? let's do one way, or another, to be fair to all.


Past Member (0)
Wednesday October 26, 2011, 8:50 am
For goodness sake. I have lived in Syria. There is a wealthy and contented minoriity of Christians there (10%). They have not been expelled. There is a 6% minority of Christians in Jordan. 40% of Lebanese are Christians. No Christians have been "expelled" from the WB&G. Are you telling untruths or do you really belive this propaganda?

Jews were not "expelled" from Arab countries. They chose to leave. Some countries allowed them to take their money and so on. Ohters, taking the position that they were in a state of war with the Zionist Entity did not allow the transfer of wealth so as not to benefit an enemy. However, it is an incontravertible fact that Palestinians were expelled by the Zionists and there is plenty of evidence of this, even in autobiographies and quotes by Zionist leaders. Zionist Entity historians have established that the expulsion of the Palestinians is a fact.

Bob Algeron (47)
Wednesday October 26, 2011, 10:55 am
John, what are you talking about? Iraq is losing its Christians, Syria, Jordan, Gaza - all Middle East countries except for Israel has their Christian population leaving. Compare the percentage of Christian population in Arab countries now and 20 years ago. Just take Bethlehem: Christians used to be a majority at 80% there, now it is 20%.

Yeah, sure, Jews were "not expelled from Arab countriues": And Serbs were not expelled from Kosovo? And Palestinian Arabs were not expelled from Quwait Arab Entity? And Palestinian Arabs were not expelled from Iraq Arab Entity?

Do you believe yourself to the stuff you right? That wealthy Jewish community of Iraq wanted to move to Israel so badly that they left all their property - and all that because on some Zionist manipulation? You can't be serious on that one. The truth, that Arab Entities expelled the Jews after they were robbed and many killed. Some Arab Entities even took laws, preventing Jewish property to be returned to their true owners.

You can belive what you want, but being so grossly unfair to Jews and Christians won't do you any good. It did not do so far. Economy of Arab Entities is falling despite oil, no scientific discoveries are reported and human rights abuses are not even counted.

You want to maintain this lifestyle - fine. But don't get surprised that Israeli Arabs despite their words will not ask for the citizenship in the Palestinian Arab Entity, and Arabs from other Arab Entities will continue to try their way into Israel.

Past Member (0)
Wednesday October 26, 2011, 11:31 am
The Jews of Iraq

The Lavon Affair
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