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INDONESIA: Mystical Islam Deters Fundamentalism

World  (tags: culture, news, politics, rights, religion, Sufism, racial Islam, tolerance, world, world, politics, news, asia, ethics, society, interesting )

- 2235 days ago -
Indonesia, the world's most populous Muslim-majority country, has found a deterrent to Islamic fundamentalists: they dress conservatively, sport short beards and Islamic caps and emulate the ways of the Prophet Muhammad.


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Carol H (229)
Friday January 4, 2013, 3:38 am
noted, thanks Cal

Teresa W (782)
Friday January 4, 2013, 4:22 am
thank you

Friday January 4, 2013, 5:15 am



Past Member (0)
Friday January 4, 2013, 6:34 am
Interesting, thanks.

Mike S (86)
Friday January 4, 2013, 7:01 am
Noted and thank you Cal.

pam w (139)
Friday January 4, 2013, 9:32 am
Interesting. Want to bet on how long they'll last?

Fundamentalism in ANY religion hates and fears reason or moderation.


John B (185)
Friday January 4, 2013, 12:59 pm
Thanks Cal for the link to the very interesting article by Ms. Pironti. The Sufi movement is not looked upon kindly by the rest of the Muslim religious community because of their opposition to violence, their support of equality for women and their tolerance of of other religions. Read and noted.

Hector Rodriguez (4)
Friday January 4, 2013, 2:41 pm
Fast forward >> fundamentalists start killing moderate.

Past Member (0)
Friday January 4, 2013, 2:49 pm
Rumi, Nanak, Krishna, John the Baptist, Pythagoras, Plutarch, Jesus, Buddha on and on all were mystics who meditated within the third eye and were strictly opposed to harming sentient beings on Earthly plane. Why do we listen to those overpowering cultures whose aim was to overtake and spread lies so as to retain or gain power and money? The "Christianity" we have seen for the last 2,000years was created by the vicious Romans and Paul, and has NOTHING to do with the inner spirituality that all Masters have been representing. Those who believe that they are religious are following lies instead of the true spirituality that is the base practice their prophets initiated into.

Cristina M (137)
Friday January 4, 2013, 3:35 pm
Quite interesting. Fundamentalism, no matter what religion they claim to represent are a poison to society

Aletta Kraan (146)
Friday January 4, 2013, 6:55 pm

Joy W (100)
Friday January 4, 2013, 7:17 pm
Noted, thanks.

Billie C (2)
Friday January 4, 2013, 9:46 pm
the will be next.

Gloria H (88)
Friday January 4, 2013, 11:00 pm
We need to be mindfull that there are peaceful people in every country. Just as we have the "good ones" and the "rotten apples" within our own families.

Amber Laverack (0)
Friday January 4, 2013, 11:55 pm
Noted and thanks. very interesting.

Jay curnow (196)
Saturday January 5, 2013, 3:01 am
I totally agree with Yvette!...we need to control the "Knee jerk reaction" that springs only too often to peoples minds...& "show by a rational example"..."what we truly believe in" & "why"...."freedom of choice"...carries a heavy responsibility!...If it does not involve deliberate unnecessary suffering or pain to another being it should be tolerated without comment!....If it does we should be free to say so & find a reasonable compromise...whatever color creed or nationality we are!

Bruno Moreira (61)
Saturday January 5, 2013, 10:42 am
noted thanks

Theodore Shayne (56)
Saturday January 5, 2013, 12:15 pm
Sufism; hated by both Shia and Sunni alike and persecuted throughout the Arab world much like the Baha'i. I've been aware of this movement for a number of years through the Root & Branch Association in Israel. Root & Branch are Jews and Sufi Muslims working together to bring about peace. However, where religion is concerned I'm always suspicious. I've heard one Sufi leader express the hope that Sufism can be used to bring the whole world to Allah peacefully. Of course he might be in the minority.

Madhu Pillai (22)
Saturday January 5, 2013, 5:40 pm
@Theodore S. You wrote you have heard a Sufi leader express a hope that the whole world can be brought to Allah peacefully, does that mean conversion through peaceful method, instead through jihad. I don't have problem with any religion or atheism as long as they keep it private between their belief and themselves instead of hoping others would follow suit. Live and let live is my philosophy and like Dalai Lama compassion is my religion.

Parvez Zuberi (7)
Saturday January 5, 2013, 11:20 pm
Noted thanks

Past Member (0)
Sunday January 6, 2013, 5:03 pm
I have great respect for the Sufis. If all Muslims could be converted to Sufi, there would be a lot more peace in the world.

Jay S (116)
Tuesday January 8, 2013, 11:41 pm
Well, then why is it that over 300 Christian churches and untold numbers of Buddhist Temples have been closed or destroyed in this Sufi paradise of love and tolerance if the government there is so supportive of this? The government has done almost nothing to stop the persecution and ethnic cleansing of non-Muslims and non-Sunni Muslims. Female genital mutilation is still rife.

It is incredible that these Sufis can say the outrageous lies about loving kind Mohammed if they have ever read the Qur'an, hadith and sirah! These Islamic 'holy books' make it very clear that Mohammed was a mass murderer, bandit, pedophile, liar, torturer and rapist of captive women, who owned a harem of sex slaves. If these people want to 'emulate' this sex obsessed monster, god help us all.

Mohammed never preached love of all and tolerance for all religions. Quite the opposite. Just another bit of Taqiyya (lying to promote Islam so it can 'gain advantage' over the infidel) from Muslim leaders telling us what we want to hear, not what they say behind our backs. Here's what Mohammed really said:

“I shall cast terror into the hearts of the Kafirs (non-Muslims). Strike off their heads, strike of the very tips of their fingers.” Q 8:12 - Medina, late Qur’an.

Qur'an (8:39) - “And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism: i.e. worshipping others besides Allah) and the religion (worship) will all be for Allah Alone [in the whole of the world ]. But if they cease (worshipping others besides Allah), then certainly, Allah is All-Seer of what they do.”

Muhammad said, "Allah marvels at those who are brought to paradise in chains" (Bukhari 52:254).

Mohammed infamously had 900 Jewish men and boys beheaded in the Medina Marketplace because they refused to accept him as the new Jewish prophet. He sat laughing as they were murdered and divided up their wealth, including their women and children as new 'wives' or sex slaves, or sold of to others as slaves. This is the man these Sufis want to emulate?????? Where is the 'love' and tolerance of other religions?

There are 109 verses of hate toward non-Muslims in the Qur'an alone, and many more in the hadith, Mohammed's sayings and repellent actions. The Qur'an is not written in chronological order, and much of it was lost during the Riddah Wars after Mohammed's death, when all those 'Muslims' who were forced to convert or die under Mohammed thought they could leave it, but were forced to stay in Islam by the sword again. Suras 9 and 5 are the last "revelations" that Muhammad handed down - hence abrogating what came before. The earliest verses from Mecca before Mohammed became a warlord and started forcing people to convert were more tolerant but didn't win him but few converts so when he moved to Medina and began forcing conversions his Medina verses became much more intolerant and violent and hateful. These verses cancelled all the earlier ones.

Any Muslim who knows anything about Islam knows this and to pretend otherwise is disingenuous as best.

Jay S (116)
Tuesday January 8, 2013, 11:59 pm
BTW here's a good article on the history of Sufism and how it has been no different from Orthodox Islam in its atrocities:

Alexa R (319)
Wednesday January 9, 2013, 12:21 am
WHAT?!? If this is called 'deterring fundamentalism' for sure I'll rather accept fundamentalistic dressing than what is currently happening in Indonesia! : AMNESTY: appeal for action against increasing sexual violence in Indonesia

Carola May (20)
Wednesday January 9, 2013, 12:41 am
If these people really did believe in love, peace and tolerance they wouldn't be Muslims or followers of the man who has caused the deaths of more innocent women, children and men than any other tyrant in human history - and estimated 270 million since Mohammed began murdering those who rejected him (and rightly so).

Many Muslims have constructed this mythical Christlike image of Mohammed without any basis in Islam's own texts which unashamedly describe Mohammed's murders, sex with a child and a dead woman's body, his greed and theft of the property and women and children of all the men he had killed, his robbing of caravans and kidnapping of people in them and his all round debauchery and evil.

Islam teaches 4 kinds of lying/deceit to tell or show to non-Muslims so Islam can be promoted and accepted as far more benign than it really is. What they tell us and the news media is not what they say in their mosques and madrassas:

"They may say one thing to you in front of CNN but I can assure you behind your backs... they are standing with their Muslim brother and sisters... It is an Islamic obligation."
-- Imam Anjem Choudary UK Islamic Scholar, Theologian, Lecturer London School of Sharia

bob m (32)
Wednesday January 9, 2013, 8:21 am

Don't be mad Madhu; but your intimation that this branch of the tree of islam is different in the "hope" that all can come to the moon god "peacefully".... is riven with bitter deceit....
Maybe a hybrid ..but still a part of.... still lost in trespasses and sin....
For God so Loved the world that he gave His only begotten Son....John 3:16.............your choice....

bob m (32)
Wednesday January 9, 2013, 8:29 am

@ Carola May; as you spoke of these 4 kinds of deceit ; I was in rememberance of the Klingon characters in Star trek they would cloak their ships... well ......Extra Extra all about it ...people see you now ..more naked than ever before in your shameful cannivances and at the Lambs return...THE JIG will be UP.........................Maranatha

Beth S (330)
Wednesday January 9, 2013, 8:37 am
Unfortunately, even the good Sufis are frequently murdered, their mosques burned, the sect deligitimized, harassed, as being a "false" form of Islam, deviating from the norm by mainstream Muslims. Sufism is considered inappropriate by the far more populous forms of Islam and looked down upon. In other words, they can't get no respect.

On a personal level, a number of years ago our entire cooking range blew and our home warranty company sent out two people to fix it, and neither of them could. Finally they sent out a man who was very nice. He said he had been a doctor back in India and that he he became a Sufi and believed in helping other people. I was impressed by his genuine sense of kindness and responsibility, and he fixed our oven and stove!

However, I was taken aback when I mentioned that Sufism seemed like the best sect Islam had to offer, and this man said no, that Sufism wasn't part of Islam.

I don't know if this man was just not being up front or whether he was genuinely unaware that Sufism is a sect of Islam, but that was very strange.

bob m (32)
Wednesday January 9, 2013, 8:43 am

@ Yvette T.....Have you fallen from your horse ?... spoken in the tongues of men and angells... been beaten imprisoned, counted yorself as nothing, sufferd all manner of humiliation and given all in seving others...and spoken finally of all being as a brass sounding if it is not in charity...(LOVE).,,quite the savage this man Paul... all in worship of the One who was slain... ...for us... none of your " mystics" can even touch His Glory ... If His Father opens not the eyes of their heart... His name is above every name that is named.

Fred H (31)
Wednesday January 9, 2013, 12:44 pm
Great, if it works. Let's home the Christians and other (infidels) will start to enjoy security.

Cousin It Addams (8)
Wednesday January 9, 2013, 1:19 pm
we're kinda missing a big important point here. it matters not one iota if sufis want to bring all the world to allah peacefully, if the world has no intention of going there peacefully or otherwise.

might be ok for men, but any woman who doesn't crave abuse and genital mutilation for herself oughta be running hard in the opposite direction. if i WAS going to join a religion, which i sure as hell am not, it certainly wouldn't be any sect of mohammedanism.

what, were all of you planning to go peacefully? what were they saying that made you think being half the worth of a man by law, no real rights or self-determination, forced marriage, FGM, beatings if you're not in the mood, wear a black bag over your head, etc, was ok for you? for YOU. not just some nameless brownish female on the other side of the planet. YOU.

and come to think of it, you men might not be that much better off. best stop taking pens home from the office if you wanna keep your hands.

Hilary S (65)
Thursday January 10, 2013, 3:59 am
cal, what possessed you to post this fable of lovingkindness in islam?
the sufis may be the most spiritual and least militant pocket of an extremely militant and misogynistic religion. but they are no more than that - a pocket, and a very tiny pocket at that, with no influence over the vast ignorant hate-filled majority.

Klaus Peters (14)
Monday January 14, 2013, 12:06 am
To me it seems to be a step in the right direction. Fundamentalism is never the way to go in any religion, it is misinterpreted by fanatics to seek power by any means and not only by Islam.
If Sufi Islam can get a foothold in Indonesia it would be a benefit to that nation and her people.

A K (2)
Friday March 1, 2013, 6:25 pm
Anyone interested in learning more about Sufism, I have some Sufi authors to recommend.

Bawa Muhaiyaddeen (you can read a lot of his work online)
Hazrat Inayat Khan (again a lot of his work is online)
Rumi (of course)
Kabir and Camille Helminski
Llewellyn Vaughn Lee
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