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OUTLAWING CHILD MARRIAGE VIOLATES SHARIAH LAW


US Politics & Gov't  (tags: LIES, abuse, rape, marriage, law, shariah law, health, children, child, government, society, culture, females, slaves, US )

Dr Kathi
- 3443 days ago - infidelsarecool.com
Under Shariah Law, slaves [including children, can be RAPED by their owner, under guise of marriage; excluding female slaves of wives, unless they give permission for their female slaves to be RAPED, then that is alright too.] RAPE is rape, period.



   

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Comments

Dr Kathi A (215)
Saturday December 12, 2009, 8:51 pm
Took about five minutes to find this little article, to lead people in the right direction with this Shariah Law. It is in print. Anyone else want to attack me because of a depraved law that allows children and/or women to be raped needs to read about the law themselves. Do NOT rely on someone "setting you straight".
 

Teresa Fazackerley (393)
Saturday December 12, 2009, 9:07 pm
THANK YOU KATHI, NOTED, HAVE A GOOD EVENING, HUGGLES TERESA
 

Dr Kathi A (215)
Saturday December 12, 2009, 9:50 pm
Some things I will let rest. This is NOT one of them. Anyone who would use a "law" to RAPE anyone, ESPECIALLY a CHILD....SHAME. They will answer for this, make no mistake, God says so. I will ALWAYS have a voice for children who are at the mercy of adults over their care & abuse that privilege.

*Also note in further proof of this "Shariah/Sharia Law" as being a way to RAPE & enslave females & do as they wish with them. http://www.care2.com/news/member/193769926/1329055
 

Teresa Fazackerley (393)
Saturday December 12, 2009, 10:16 pm
DEAR KATHI, THANK GOD FOR HAVING PEOPLE LIKE YOU IN MY LIFE!!
 

Kelli Stowe (216)
Saturday December 12, 2009, 11:01 pm
Noted. I agree with you 100% Kathi. Thank you.
 

Alicia V (181)
Saturday December 12, 2009, 11:28 pm
Thank you Kathi. This is crazy.
 

Darlene K (356)
Saturday December 12, 2009, 11:37 pm
I also agree with you. Noted and thank you.
 

Katz R (54)
Saturday December 12, 2009, 11:45 pm
I' readfrom this paticular blog site before. For one thing within the Muslim sommunity there is allot of debate over what people are claiming is an isn't in Sharia law. Guess what, neither rape nor slavery is for sure an outlawing child marriages certainly wouldn't be against Dharia law either. Many areas havce tried to carry older tribal laws an insert them into Sharia where they don't belong but equally people attempt to incite instead of productivley do something about the problem. For one thing the bloggers title does not have basis in the article and secondly, while I abhor mistreatment of women an children realize this marriage thing has only recently changed across the board everywhere and there is still an issue of it in the AMericas in sects an Latin countries. Have you ever actually studied Sharia law? I', not attacking you but feel that this article is a possitive thing with the new marriage age and are wondering how that you can single out Islam over lets say Hinduism or even forms of Christianity as the great evil, the way some people use their religions are evil period. No one should allow anyone to try an set them straight as there are obviously allot of people of there that will try an twist things for their own reasons or designs but I think some research could be taken on any of these subjects an situations dealt with possitively.
 

Katz R (54)
Sunday December 13, 2009, 12:01 am
I might add, I have studied Sharia law as well as Judaic an Christian, [and other world religions] I am none of the above
 

Pete Conrads (91)
Sunday December 13, 2009, 12:04 am
All women should be allowed the rights that men have enjoyed for hundreds of years. Womens' rights have remained in the dark ages in every country to some degree, there is no excuse. It is time for humankind to step up to the plate and take responsability for their actions. It is time to evolve.
Warm regards, Namaste
 

Dr Kathi A (215)
Sunday December 13, 2009, 12:10 am
I do NOT normally try to go directly against any religion specifically, unless it goes against fair treatment of humans. An article concerning this situation came to my inbox, so I responded. I was then attacked as though I was wrong for thinking such. I do not have to study or practice something to know when I can research the subject matter for ten minutes & read enough material to prove they DO treat RAPE as their right under the Shariah / Sharia Law. I do not twist what is stated plainly. If you just look up either Shariah Law or Sharia Law, then within these confines, look up the word RAPE. The only time a woman or child can prove they have been raped is when FOUR men have witnessed this rape. Otherwise, it is not rape. Have you ever been raped or know of anyone who has been? How many men were present? If there are FOUR men witnesses to a rape, why are they not stopping the rape to begin with? This is showing how ludicrous this law is. The women have no rights. No culture should think that marriage to a CHILD is not rape, it is.

As I was attacked as though I personally set out against this Sharia Law, I was left no choice but to get the word out. If anyone disagrees, that is their choice. I agree, under "religion" & "marriage" a great evil has been done throughout history. We need to CHANGE this. A woman can be raped by her husband. That piece of paper does not give him the RIGHT to sexually assault her or physically assault her. It is STILL abuse. When a CHILD, even if puberty has begun, is given in marriage, this is EVIL. Only someone who is depraved would think this should be acceptable. So I am not the one who singled this subject out, until I was attacked by someone & WILL not back down when I am RIGHT in what I am READING from their OWN Sharia Law.

I am a reserved person, except when it comes to people blatantly causing harm to children or anyone else who is weaker & trying to justify it because it is their "religion". Anyone could then say, make up a "religion" that allows you to kill every brunette person who passes by you on say, every Friday. [I use this as IE, as I am brunette]. That would make it legal for anyone claiming this as their religion capable to freely kill any brunette they wanted on Friday. This is ludicrous for anyone to think this is justifiable.
 

Catherine Turley (192)
Sunday December 13, 2009, 12:37 am
the bible says 'the offspring of your slave is considered your property'. it's just a matter of time before child marriage, rape, etc. become universally unacceptable. now whether or not these practices will continue to a degree (as slavery does today) remains to be seen.

my friend, js tar, has a petition with links at www.thepetitionsite.com/2/truth-about-islam
i know she would be happy to address any questions.
 

Cheree M (46)
Sunday December 13, 2009, 12:57 am
Noted. Thank You for bring this issue up, it needs to get out so many, many, people know. Thanks again.
 

(4)
Sunday December 13, 2009, 1:24 am
Noted. I left a comment. Thank you both, Kelli & Dr. Kathi. My comment was....It is so sad that these poor young ladies, still children are treated in this way. They are used like toys. But not cared for. If they refuse anything, they are killed by.....their own families. Disgusting.
 

chris b (2474)
Sunday December 13, 2009, 2:36 am
I'm not sure why anyone would need to quote from the Bible or any other source when the sin is so patently obvious. Religion in many of its forms has much that is offensive and vile contained both in and about it! What is clear to me is the hypocrisy of any religion that touts peace and love on the one hand and espouses death destruction and torture on the other. Few religions are untainted by this sin! For example taking Native Americans away from their religious roots and forcibly converting them to Christianity at the same time sexually abusing them is no different to what is promoted by the enslavement and forced marriage of female children in this particular law. We should be careful in our judgements to heed the apt saying "Judge not less ye be judged" and of course "Let those with out sin cast the first stone"
However religious edicts that call for and cause disadvantage, cruelty, death and destruction are hardly the things that a sane rational and compassionate human being would condone! I would therefore condemn any religious demand for cruel slaughter of animals by insisting they are conscious when killed, sacrifice of animals, sacrifice of females more often than not to satisfy men's lust and ego, genital mutilation of both sexes, torturing and killing bulls as part of some religious rite by Catholics and Zulus etc etc!
It has to be remembered young age marriage was considered normal and legal in parts of the US! So before one condemns and occupies the high moral ground one should be mindful if that high ground is a heap of crud! Having said that normal decency and civilised behaviour would find the practice of child brides abhorrent and the simple biology of development would categorize such behaviour as akin to legalizing child molesting and paedophilia! Dressing vile and despicable practise up in religious, tradition, racial, national or cultural garb does not excuse or mitigate it's nastiness! On the contrary it insults our intelligence to make that excuse! Kathi is quite right in her assertion that one should be able to address this matter in a public forum without censorship.
 

charles mclachlan (1677)
Sunday December 13, 2009, 3:06 am
stop them rapeing children
 

Naoko i (257)
Sunday December 13, 2009, 3:08 am
Noted. Thanks Kathi for posting, and Kelli for forwarding.
 

Tierney G (381)
Sunday December 13, 2009, 4:05 am
Thank you Kathi for posting this. It is one of MANY religions that treat women as property The religious right in this country are trying to do the same thing!!! Wake up women and fight for your rights. This is not Predjudice to want to be treated with RESPECT and dignity as ALL living beings deserve.
If anyone or ANY religion tryed to do this to me I would have to let them kill me. I would or could never live this way!!! IT IS WRONG!!! I left all religion behind because of this I said ALL!! Where is CEDAW? we need them to pass CEDAW in this country.
 

Ben O (132)
Sunday December 13, 2009, 5:56 am
Disgusting, and freaking unbelievable!
 

Past Member (0)
Sunday December 13, 2009, 6:10 am
I don't know whether child marriages, child rape and child divorces are commonplace in Muslim/Sharia(h) communities. However, there are articles out there that talk about Islamic girls who've been abused under this law:
http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/07/15/yemen.childbride/index.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_marriage
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharia#Marriage_and_divorce

This inhumane custom is still practiced in several countries including Yemen, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Bangladesh, India, etc., and needs to be stamped out ruthlessly.
 

liz c (827)
Sunday December 13, 2009, 6:13 am
Noted. Thank you. Good topic for debate.
 

Glen Tucker (1)
Sunday December 13, 2009, 6:18 am
I don't agree with laws that are not civil laws. Communities need to agree on a common law that enshrines the right of the individual to be respected as a sovereign expression of God with no exceptions.
Laws made by individuals such as the head of a religion or of a government is out of date. We are privileged to day to know that the will of God is love, no exceptions, not exploitation or the wielding of power by anyone or any group over another. Surely this is obvious? Then if any law breaks this fundamental, it judges itself as divine or not. Draw your own conclusions.
 

Mary H (47)
Sunday December 13, 2009, 6:55 am
Noted -- rape is rape!
 

Adrian Davis (49)
Sunday December 13, 2009, 7:01 am
Noted...thank you!
 

jay way (11)
Sunday December 13, 2009, 7:50 am
I cant comment on this one as i am not thinking of any printable words --
 

Fiona O (562)
Sunday December 13, 2009, 8:31 am
How dreadful. I cannot comprehend how these practices continue. Bless you Kelli for the news. All I can do right now is meditate for these poor young women.
 

Past Member (0)
Sunday December 13, 2009, 8:32 am
THIS IS SO SICK AND TWISTED!!!!! GOD'S WRATH IS COMING!!!!!! NOTED!
 

MmAway M (519)
Sunday December 13, 2009, 8:34 am
Thank you for getting this out there, and Kelli thank you for the forward on this...

Everything has been said that I would like to -- the other words would be flagged for what is happenning there!
 

Alice C (1797)
Sunday December 13, 2009, 9:40 am
Noted, unfortunatly things like this can and do happen all over the world.
it's time for our world's women & children to be protected so they can make thier own choices
 

Tim Redfern (581)
Sunday December 13, 2009, 10:02 am
As Jane Way said, if I said what I was thinking,
I'd get banned from Care2. However, it is WAY past time that
women were placed on an equal, if not higher, footing than
men in this world.
Thanks, Dr.Kathi.
noted.
 

LoneWolf Heart (11)
Sunday December 13, 2009, 10:26 am
See you are fighting against abuse of children & women. Chk http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/07/15/yemen.childbride/index.html ~ http://unambig.wordpress.com/2009/08/29/the-story-of-a-child-bride-in-yemen-after-her-divorce/ ~ http://www.nohonor.org/?cat=20 ~ http://infidelsarecool.com/2009/09/13/yemen-child-bride-dies-giving-birth/ The list goes on and on.
 

Catherine Turley (192)
Sunday December 13, 2009, 10:52 am
chris
i only used a bible reference to point out that as societies progress, the gap between what is written and what is practiced becomes wider. of course, everyone should protest this, but realize that it will cease and there are probably many, many muslims who are fighting to end this practice as we speak.
 

Catherine Turley (192)
Sunday December 13, 2009, 11:10 am
in regard to animals, as you may know, i am entirely against killing. however, i was surprised to read that islam takes measures to ensure the comfort of the animal being killed. they are not allowed to sharpen the knife in front of the animal. no other animals are allowed to witness the killing. and, they employed the method of killing believing it to cause the least pain. there is a study by a german scientist that recorded the eeg waves of animals being killed in various manners. it found less pain reaction in throat slitting than in the stun-and-kill method employed by other societies. the only problem (and i pointed this out to my muslim friend) is that even the most skilled killer only gets the cut right about 40% of the time. 60% of the time, something called an 'occlusion' forms and keeps the animal from losing consciousness.
 

Dr Kathi A (215)
Sunday December 13, 2009, 11:18 am
So they are kinder to animals they kill than to females of, from what I gather, ages from birth to death. This makes it even worse than I had already believed. I believe I will take a break from Care2 for a day or two I am too upset over how little life of these precious little girls are worth.

Have a follow up video that sickens me at: http://www.care2.com/news/member/193769926/1329442
 

Michael Owens (1647)
Sunday December 13, 2009, 11:35 am
THANK YOU KATHI, NOTED
 

Catherine Turley (192)
Sunday December 13, 2009, 11:39 am
good point kathi. it's possible that there are strict guidelines regarding girls and women that are being disregarded. i don't know enough to be sure they are practicing exactly what is mandated. it may be something like in christianity, where husbands have the final word, but they are supposed to respect their wives' wishes and treat them like gold. so , who really calls the shots? perhaps, girls must marry, but men are not supposed to rape them if they protest. i haven't thoroughly read the law in this area.

on a positive note, greg mortenson and his charity 'central asia institute' builds schools and educates girls in afganistan and elsewhere. he has seen these students become doctors. education breaks the hold of extreme religion and antiquated traditions. he has a book called 'three cups of tea'.

don't stay gone too long. we may be their only hope.
 

mary f (200)
Sunday December 13, 2009, 11:52 am
thank you kelli for posting this
 

. (0)
Sunday December 13, 2009, 11:54 am
Child marriage is disgusting. It should be stopped everywhere
 

Barbara West (0)
Sunday December 13, 2009, 12:34 pm
Seems like MAN can find excuses to allow him to do whatever he wants. Sick, disgusting and sadistic! I have a good solid broom handle. Wonder how they would like that???
 

Dee B (21)
Sunday December 13, 2009, 12:35 pm
Sounds like they could use a few Lorena Bobbitts to straighten those pervs out!
 

Mary M (29)
Sunday December 13, 2009, 12:36 pm
To those that use religion as an escape from being a responsible adult, should be be prosecuted as a sex offender. To quote some portion of the Bible, as someone did above, I feel that the Bible was written by men, thousands of years ago (old Testament) and women were considered inferior. Just because it is written in that book, does not mean you have to take it literally and do as it complies. Remember only the Scribes of the Temple and later the Bishops of the Catholic Church knew how to write. They were told these stories over and over before it was written down. You know what happens when a story is passed verbally, it can and does change considerably. By the time the Scribes and Bishps wrote these things, who knows what Adam and Eve said, or for later generations what the 12 apostles actually said verbatim. It was only by word of mouth, and that is not always accurate as anyone who has heard an office or neighborhood gossip.
 

Lioness WaterTigress (15)
Sunday December 13, 2009, 12:44 pm
Believe that their are good people in this world. While there are also, evil ones who will do whatever they want and try to cover it over as though it should be accepted because they say it should be accepted. How can anyone listen to this man or view ANY of these guidelines "laws" and believe that this is not sexual abuse and child rape, apparently young women and older women have no more right either. As you state, rape is rape and it should not be excused because they throw a tarp of "Sharia Law" and "marriage" to allow this.
 

Pat Prest (50)
Sunday December 13, 2009, 1:37 pm
This is NOT marriage, it is "RAPE PERSONIFIED!"

No one takes a child as a bride unless they are a total pervert.....
these are children, and these people are using this so called marriage as an excuse for their perverted ways!

When women are raped by family members for an offense the husband thinks she made, what else do you need to know, women have absolutely NO RIGHTS within this religion, not now or ever has there been and its about time someone stood up for the women and girls and put an end to it!
 

Marilyn K (50)
Sunday December 13, 2009, 1:55 pm
Leaders of all other faiths must organize and do and say something to condemn this perverse activity. It is not enough to note this, something must be done by our political and religious leaders.
 

Teresa W (782)
Sunday December 13, 2009, 2:03 pm
That's horrible!
 

Gaias Son Aiki (40)
Sunday December 13, 2009, 2:53 pm
Rape is rape, regardless. It truly is horrific the degree people are willing to corrupt laws and legal systems to justify what truly are crimes against humanity. The homophobic laws currently being implemented in Uganda is another example of this. Laws like these are in and of themselves tools of crimes against human decency and integrity. They abuse human rights and anyone feeling they can escape such crimes just because the law says they have committed no crime knows deep in their hearts they do not have a clean conscience. In the end it must hurt them just as much as it hurts the victims as they loose much of their self esteem and value, not to speak of their loss the humanity. As you do unto others you do unto yourself.
 

Gillian M (218)
Sunday December 13, 2009, 3:27 pm
I think that this is a breach of the agreement signed by Arab countries with the UN regarding childrens' rights (or lack of them!).

I have introduced similar articles although none of them mentioned Sharia law. I have to say that I am fed up with everything being related to Sharia law. It doesn't make child abuse/paedophillia right, the killing of children or the murder of women in honour killings.

I am pleased to hear that some people believe that children should be children and hope that sanity prevails in the Yemen.
 

chris b (2474)
Sunday December 13, 2009, 3:43 pm
Sadly the evidence from slaughter house videos paints an entirely different picture what ever practice is used they all kill animals by cutting their throats and bleeding them out, when the animal is going to be eaten. Jewish and Islamic practice requires the animal to be conscious ie it is alive until it dies of surgical shock which to the layman is ultra low blood pressure induced in this case by rapid blood loss, the rapid being upto several minutes of pain fear and torment, just watch the dying animal struggle if you think it is not painful! In non religious slaughter houses the animal is supposed to be stunned ie rendered unconscious by electric shock or mechanical stun gun aplication to the brain. Incidentaly stunning is not to kill the animal but render it unconscious so it does not feel pain. I dont think this is the right place to dispute your observations on eeg display as there interpretation requires a reasonable medical knowledge of brain function and what constitutes pain etc. I'm quite happy to discuss this elsewhere if you would like to be enlightened. Additionally animals used for just their fur simple have their legs heads heads tails etc cut fur cut off whilst still alive as skinning is easier when alive! Some are killed by electrocution the electrodes being placed into the mouth, anus or genitals to avoid fur damage. Slaughter animals are also often mistreated on the way to slaughter, whilst awaiting slaughter and during slaughter particularly in less civilised areas such practises as bleeding out a cow by hoisting it still alive by one leg, the leg shattering as its calf is ripped from it still alive and then killed in front of the bleeding mother make unpleasent but compelling viewing for those who are foolish enough to believe any concern or kindness inhabits slaughter houses. Many instance of things like cutting the leg tendons to prevent movement or facitate amusement for slaughtermen You will also witness fear in the eyes of cows and as they are rotated by machinery to have their throats slit you have to be some piece of work to do that and some of the videos show a whole range of uneccessary torture inflicting such as stabbing animals eyes genitals and that sort of abuse are documented in dozens of videos from many different sources and include Kosher, Halal and non religious establishments Just Google in the question and if you are not about to have your meal and have a strong stomach watch and be educated. However the abuse of animals is but one facet of religion it has many other unpleasant sides and should not be used as a cloak for perversity in any shape or form be that raping young girls under the guise of marraige or any other abuse of females for that matter. Clearly there are those that seek to deny or justify such behaviours for their own deviant agenda! British foxhunters for example maintain the fox enjoys being chased so I'm waiting for someone to tell me the animal enjoys being consciuos while bleeding to death or the young girl enjoys being raped perhaps! All this deviant behaviours fill shelf loads of psychological textbooks and that is where these behaviours shouild stay documented by professionals and not forced on young girls or animals!
 

Delbert Hathaway (111)
Sunday December 13, 2009, 5:44 pm
I dont care how you look at it or what religion says it is their law, slavery is illegal, and rape is also illegal. Anyone involved in rapping a child should be stripped, beat with a cat-o-nine-tails, and then have the wounds treated with turpintine. They are lower than the lowest whale escrement on the bottom of the ocean, and deserve to be right beside it in chains.A child rapist is a murderer. He/she has killed that child's childhood. And I dont care what your religion says one man cannot own another man. It is against the laws of the nation, and God. If your religion says it is o k to own someone according to your god' then your god is Satan, or the devil, Belzibub, whatever you call him. That is your god and you worship him to your own destuction.
 

ALEXANDRA MARCE M (48)
Sunday December 13, 2009, 5:48 pm
MEN..... OUT THERE, REMEMBER- THAT A WOMAN IS YOUR EQUAL.....WE ARE IN A NEW ENLIGHTENED AGE.....GET WITH THE TIMES, IN THE NAME OF LOVE AND JUSTICE AND DECENCY.....SECURITY GUARD/ACTIVIST ALEXANDRA MARCELLA MANOLESCO-AMI!!
 

June Marshall (395)
Sunday December 13, 2009, 7:55 pm
It's high time that Sharia Law be updated! This law enabling children to be so abused and scarred for life should be removed! I'll bet child preditors love it so they can legally get their jollies.This is HORRENDOUS!
 

Sophie Smith (520)
Sunday December 13, 2009, 9:33 pm
Human rights is equal for every individual. It may be girl child or boy. Marriage is a social sanctioned sex relationship and a little girl has to aware about the concept of marriage.
 

Catherine Turley (192)
Monday December 14, 2009, 1:37 am
chris
i know what you're talking about. i've probably seen and read all the same articles, photos, etc. as you. i'm talking about strict adherence to islamic law. what we have seen may not constitute by-the-book methods. there is one overview of professor schultz' study at www.themodernreligion.com/misc/an/an_slaughter.htm
i already pointed out that i take issue with the notion that slaughter can be consistently performed with precision, even if i bought that animals feel absolutely no pain when performed correctly. my point was simply that islam considers the feelings of animals to a degree, and i think that's news to most people.

and if i have to scroll through a thousand 'thanks and noted' every day, surely people can listen to me go off topic for a few posts. besides, kids and animals go hand in hand... utterly vulnerable.
 

Leanne B (46)
Monday December 14, 2009, 1:51 am
Rape is rape!
 

Ben O (132)
Monday December 14, 2009, 3:29 am
Once I used the right words about those bastards,
and was suspended from Care2 for 3 weeks!
So....???
 

Ben O (132)
Monday December 14, 2009, 3:42 am
Here's some more on Yemen:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ktla-child-forced-marriage,0,4537396.story
http://newsblaze.com/story/20090216093557zzzz.nb/topstory.html
"Where NOT to be a Woman":
http://www.utne.com/2008-06-03/Politics/Where-Not-to-Be-a-Woman.aspx
Amnesty International:
http://www.care2.com/news/member/140535861/1109469
 

Abdessalam Diab (145)
Monday December 14, 2009, 4:00 am
(1 )Sharea law is innocent . I challenge any body who can tell us about any verse of the holly Quran that allows child marriage.There isn't any text in the Muslim's holly book that allows or encourages something like this. Yes neither Islam,Judaism nor Christianity set a certain age at which a girl can be married because this is different from a place to another,from community to an other,from an environment to an other. In cold regions girls might not grow as fast as in hot regions.Societies always regulate marriage according either to traditions or a civil law.The violation of a civil law should be looked at as a VIOLATION OF LAW and has nothing to do with any religion .
Dr.Kathi thinks that only ten minutes research are enough to judge which is impossible. If she had given the subject some importance and enough time to research,she would have known that the community in Yemen is still tribal and the early marriage for both boys and girls is one of the traditions of the tribal societies.These traditions are very old and are changing through the spread of education.Despite this fact the government had set an the age of ( 17 years) for girls marriage which is the age when most American and European girls leave their families houses and live with a boy friend or even with a man as a room mate.This law is applied although it is violated from time to time exactly as any other law in any other country is violated.Some people are trying to minimize this age as I read in that thread but so far the government refused.
( 2 ) I wonder what is Dr.Kathi's situation or point of view regarding the marriage of school teenagers in USA and Europe where a 12-13 years old teenager gets pregnant and comes back home to her family to shock them with delivering a baby in few months.I had lived in USA four years and am absolutely aware of this catastrophe that ends in most cases not by marriage but by giving the baby for adoption ,some time in return of quiet a good amount of money.
I am not on the side of early marriage but wouldn't it be better for a baby like this to be raised within his natural family,meaning that marriage would have been better in such case.
 

Jan Billy Pedersen (43)
Monday December 14, 2009, 4:11 am
These rites in Yemen is disgusting being Shariah Law or not.
 

Barbara Tomlinson (431)
Monday December 14, 2009, 4:38 am
People are talking about "them" here, as if all Muslims were alike. "All" Muslims do NOT believe in or follow Sharia law! Sure that law is horrendous and medieval. Many, many people of Muslim faith, not just "some" or "a few", do NOT believe in this religious law; do NOT let it dictate their daily lives! Just like "all" Catholics aren't for burning homosexuals at the stake, altho at one time that was the prevailing thing among Catholics. Also, as far as molesting children, both boys and girls, altho "some" do and have done, in huge numbers actually, not "all" Catholics are "like that" either.
There are "backward" people and entire countries, of ALL faiths. Uganda, for example, their CHRISTIANS are currently passing a law giving the Death Penalty for homosexual activity.

This should NOT be made into a "hate-all-the-Muslims" fest. I have very good Muslim friends RIGHT HERE ON CARE2, who would be appalled also. In fact, I just came from a website of RAWA, the Revolutionary Association of Afghan Women. Like similar institutions in THIS country, these women are HELPING women who are victims of domestic abuse and of child marriage -- in fact, there was an article on child marriage on that site.

The point is, THESE WOMEN WERE MUSLIMS who were DEALING CONSTRUCTIVELY WITH THIS ISSUE. I haven't seen the blog yet; but I know that BLOGGERS TEND TO VIEW MUSLIM COMMUNITIES AS IF TIME HAD STOPPED THERE SOMEHOW. In Afghanistan, as just ONE example, MEN with progressive values are helping the women achieve their rights and freedoms. I am currently reading a book by a prominent Afghan woman, Malaila Joya, "A Woman Among Warlords", that also makes this point.

Sure, it is a problem that some reactionary Muslims have tried to take Sharia Law with them when they move to another country. THIS CANNOT BE CONDONED! But, again, I have to emphasize; not "all", not each and every one among Muslims, follows this law either publicly or privately.
Saddam Hussein's Iraq, if anybody cares, was a SECULAR State guided ENTIRELY BY SECULAR LAW; altho the majority were Muslims. Now, as a result of the chaos and disruption of war, the Muslim religious fanatics have INCREASED their power.....

I am sorry, I know you MEAN well; but I have to say it, it is THE HEIGHT OF ARROGANCE AND FOOLISHNESS to say such a thing as "We are their only hope" {of Muslim women}.
DANG GOOD THING YOU ARE NOT THEIR "ONLY" HOPE, THAT "WE" ARE NOT THEIR "ONLY" HOPE, I'D SAY!!!!!
What are WE gonna do, yell and scream and wring our hands and weep and moan.... is THAT going to help these women? NOT ONE SINGLE BIT! Oh, we'll get up a petition.....!!!!!

The American Army is CERTAINLY NOT going to "liberate" any women; the chaos and disruption of War, ALWAYS makes things much WORSE for women. Now it's not just their OWN men raping them; but the Invading and Occupying foreign army also!!!

Please, GO to the RAWA website, it's very easy to find, and translated into perfect English. And please read "A Woman Among Warlords"; and you would do well to read "Two Cups of Tea" also. And "Reading Lolita in Tehran" is another good and eye-opening book. And these books certainly DON'T whitewash the reactionary Patriarchy!

MUSLIM WOMEN AS AN ENTIRE GROUP, ARE NOT HELPLESS. They are engaged in the business of LIBERATING THEMSELVES as fast as and as best they can -- war and economic deprivation of course makes it much HARDER.

"WE" are not helping by pushing a FALSE AND ONE-SIDED VIEW OF "ALL" MUSLIMS. In conclusion, why don't some of you take the opportunity to make some Muslim FRIENDS right here on Care2?

SHARIA LAW AND THE MUSLIM RELIGION ARE NOT ONE-AND-THE-SAME THING! Sharia Law could be compared to the law justifying the Holy Inquisition of the Catholic Church. Not "ALL" Catholics agreed with that! Altho of course historically, many did. But the Inquisition was put down, and the religion remained.

I am afraid that some of this anti-Muslim thing is not "objective truth finding"; but is being USED to drum up War Hysteria. The facts are smothered in the USE of the facts, for PROPAGANDA purposes. As in "We" are their "only hope". "We" have to go and "liberate" them." No, thank you, the women didn't ASK for that. We can't "liberate" them by bombing their homes flat.

Sources to look into:
RAWA Website, see the articles on domestic violence, Afghan women are perfectly aware this is WRONG. This group, RAWA, is working among them to begin to put a stop to it.
Read:
"A Woman Among Warlords"
"Two Cups of Tea"
"Reading Lolita in Tehran".
You will meet REAL PEOPLE, real Muslim people, men and women, in those books and at that website: not "THEM", the horrible, mysterious "Other".
Ask a Muslim FRIEND, if the picture shown there is accurate.
 

Past Member (0)
Monday December 14, 2009, 4:50 am
The Muslim men who practice this sort of thing are nothing but a bunch of paedophiles it is quit common for Muslim men to marry ? a female child of nine years of age have sex with her then divorce her by repeating three times I divorce thee.They are nothing short of criminals.
 

Barbara Tomlinson (431)
Monday December 14, 2009, 5:02 am
Abdessalam makes some good points:
1]Both the Koran itself, and Sharia Law, are open to widely different interpretations, in different communities.
2]Customs among different Muslim groups, often come from tribal or regional sources, not directly from religion. For example, being covered up completely, is not in the Koran, which only says to be "modest". The "traditional" coverup comes from local, regional custom.

Islam is developing and adapting, just as all religions have to. Many adherents of the faith are as modern in outlook as anyone else.

And it is true that early marriage is a TRIBAL custom. There were good reasons for it back in history. Since we all came at some point from TRIBAL peoples, most likely at some point many of the ancestors of all of us, lived and got married that way.

Women around the world are rising up and DEMANDING CONTROL OVER THEIR OWN BODIES AND FERTILITY; and that includes the absolute right to refuse marriage and refuse sex even within marriage. This is still new, in many parts of the world. But it's coming.... and it will HAVE to be the WOMEN THEMSELVES in a society who liberate themselves; just as our own grandmothers and mothers had no-one else who could do it FOR them.
 

Abdessalam Diab (145)
Monday December 14, 2009, 5:04 am
You cannot currently send a star to BMutiny because you have done so within the last week.
 

John H (2)
Monday December 14, 2009, 5:11 am
Hate is hate. The tone of this poster's words are steeped in hate messages. Childhood marriage and/or exploitation is a worldwide problem. It is not something that is exclusively Islamic. Centuries of of custom can't be changed over night, and pretending that it can (or just condemning all of Islam as this poster has) is short sighted. It is interesting to note that if the Yemen amendment holds up, it will be stricter than the laws of most states in the US! "God forbid, Christians sanctioning the marriage of 13-year old girls?!" Maybe you need to start a new website which is anti-Christian, too!
 

Barbara Tomlinson (431)
Monday December 14, 2009, 5:20 am
This is the way the Christians whipped up hatred against the Jews, to have their pogroms; they accused the Jews of all sorts of bad things involving babies and children.

No, Alfred, not "all" Muslim men practice this sort of thing; it is NOT "quite common" among them. Probably even LESS "common" than Paedophilia seems to be among Catholic priests.

Please be on your guard, people, against those who would instigate a "Holy War" against Muslims, using paedophilia or mis-treatment of women or "perversion" or whatever, as an EXCUSE FOR A WAR THAT IS ABOUT NOTHING BUT OIL.
There was the anti-Semitic propaganda of the Nazis; and the racist propaganda against the Japanese, which I am old enough to remember very well, during WWII. We HAVE TO guard against DEMONIZING ALL MUSLIMS; it is SO EASY TO BE STAMPEDED by a few emotional triggers.

Of course we are all concerned about children and young girls. Domestic violence and marital rape SHOULD concern us all.
But this article has a MIS-LEADING TITLE suggesting somehow that ALL MUSLIM MEN DO NOTHING BUT ENGAGE IN CONSTANT VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN AND CHILDREN. This is utter nonsense.

People are being swept away with emotion; that has NEVER SOLVED anything. They are ON PURPOSE BEING MANIPULATED TO HATE. In order to go to war, we have to manufacture "an enemy". Well, Yemenites are not Afghans, but hey, they're MUSLIM, so they'll do, can't tell one of 'em from another anyway......
The people DOING the manipulations for War Fever, don't reveal who they are or who they're working for.... {Hint: the Oil and Gas Companies....}
 

chris b (2474)
Monday December 14, 2009, 5:24 am
Catherine there is nothing off topic about combining the rights and welfare of the voiceless and I assume you would regard a very young child as voiceless in this discussion. It it also seems obvious to me that women and animals are regarded as mere comodoties by many religionists. However as with all groups tarring with the same brush is not neccessarily productive. The so called rules of religion are daily broken and misused by many different faiths and members of those faiths to suit their own individual agendas. Otherwise how would sexual predation be swept under the carpet by the many different Christian denominations whose members have been caught with their clerical garb down! The perpetrator receiving more concern than the survivor of sexual abuse My Moslem and Jewish friends tell me that under strict interpretations of their religious law much of the abuse is not actually required and then others of the same faith say Oh yes it is! What I'm not sure regarding those that would appear to be saying their faith is whiter than white is whether they either don't understnd their own faith or are in denial about its baser activities or are ashamed of those activities and rufuse to acknowledge them. Having been brought up as a Christian I am also aware of the iniquities of the Inquisition, the atrocities of the Crusades and the missionary zeal that caused Native Americans to be abused in the name of Christ which must be the ultimate perversion to justify rape of "Heathens" etc in the name of ones God. Islam is therefore not alone in this matter. So once again Catherine I repeat you are not off topic to do as I do! I might add that you canot switch off pain by using a knife however sharp or deftly wielded, the flesh contains thousands of nerve cells which tell the brain when hurt and therefore pain is occuring. The brains responce is to compensate with changes to heart rate, release of adrenalin ( dog slaugterers deliberatly torure the animal to make the meat tastier as a result of this!) muscular activity etc etc all symptoms of pain responce that does not happen with a properly stunned animal. Of course eventually the aninmal succombes to death as the heart runs out of sufficient blood to support it's own muscle function and it stops. However that is but one part of the equation the brain may well be just functional enough to experience pain at this stage but the dead animal is not in a position to tell us and the electrical responce will drop to such a low level as to be meaningless data wise. I think the idea that concern for animals can be manifest in the crude confines of a slaughterhouse is stretching credibility beyond sense and reason. My own observations when I serviced equipment in the offices of municpal slaughterhouses that practised stun before killing required me to bath after being in contact with bloodstained office machinery and the offices were not situated in the killing rooms but the frequent movement of staff carried the blood around! Every trade has it distintive mark, undertakers offices are frequently ash ladenand the crematoriam likewise, news rooms used to also be laden with ash but from cigarettes,, butchers are obviuosly blood stained and carpenters shops filled with wood dust although trades like diamond cutters and goldsmiths would get quite upset if you swept up too much of their dust when servicing their machines! Anyway I had better not deviate too far off topic as I can hear Alexandra sharpening her Bobbitt knife!
 

Barbara Tomlinson (431)
Monday December 14, 2009, 5:41 am
Oh, and slavery is OFFICIALLY OUTLAWED in EVERY country in the world, including all Islamic countries. Slavery still exists, illegally, in many countries INCLUDING THE UNITED STATES, and other "Christian", "Western" countries; not just in Islamic countries.

The Bible has lots of rules, good and bad, of how you ought to treat your slaves. {The Bible also says, that a son who disobeys his father SHOULD BE KILLED.} Primitive, barbaric laws belong to a past period in History. We pick and choose those parts of the Bible we want to follow today, if we are Christians or Jews. Modern secular Law would NOT condone a father killing his son for disobedience, saying that "Biblical Law is greater than secular law!"

So do the majority of Muslims "pick and choose" those parts of the ancient religion that are applicable; that means that by far the majority of Muslims today DON'T have slaves and those parts of the Old Testament or the Koran dealing with slaves, don't apply.....

Again, this is DISTORTION, and distortion FOR A BAD REASON.... NOT to HELP women and children, but to get us worked up like in a video game, to "kill the bad enemy Muslim perverts without mercy", pull that trigger, drop that bomb, without thinking twice.....

If you REALLY CARE about helping women and children and girls worldwide, you must KEEP YOUR HEAD ON YOUR SHOULDERS.....to see how to steadily bring about change, the way our grandmothers and mothers did.......with the sometimes foot-dragging of the men, too.....
 

Abdessalam Diab (145)
Monday December 14, 2009, 6:36 am
Alfred Donovan
Did you see this or heard about it.? I assume when you say" the Muslim men" you mean all of them which is absolutely wrong .
 

Kimberly C (36)
Monday December 14, 2009, 6:42 am
did you know that Taliban means: student??? Did you know that the CIA trained Fanatics and created "Al Queda"? Did you know that " OUR" government is/has "allowed" this type of evil and even put forth "tax-payer" dollars to TRAIN lunatics to "distract" americans from?????????? Corporations that AMERICA made have sent OUR country's prosperity..." elsewhere" I call this "betrayal" in the highest form, what do YOU call it?
 

Kimberly C (36)
Monday December 14, 2009, 6:45 am
renewamerica.com/columns/spingola
 

Abdessalam Diab (145)
Monday December 14, 2009, 6:59 am
Thank you BMUTiny. I thought for a while to talk about what is included in the Bible.But as a Muslim,who respects all religions and my Islam is incomplete if I don't believe Judaism and Christianity, I didn't mention it. This is Islam.We don't whisper here and their about other's faith.
 

Elizabeth F (5)
Monday December 14, 2009, 8:35 am
rape is rape, End this disgusting practice no!!!
 

Aletta Kraan (146)
Monday December 14, 2009, 9:10 am
Noted , thanks !!!
 

Mitch Offutt (47)
Monday December 14, 2009, 9:47 am
Bmutiny, how would western civilization know that not all Islam upholds Sharia Law? The vast number of regular, " live and let live" Muslims never speak out during the reign of the Taliban, dozens and dozens of beheadings, civilian bombings, wife/ man abuse killings/ abuse, female education denials etc etc. Be real. The oil rich Arab oil potentates are so scared of these believer zealots to bribe them to not foment revolt in their countries. We are the infidels. Islam has allways been a conversion by the sword religion.
 

Mitch Offutt (47)
Monday December 14, 2009, 9:50 am
P.S.- excellent truthful article Kathi, thanks.
 

gerlinde p (161)
Monday December 14, 2009, 12:18 pm
noted thankyou.
 

Katz R (54)
Monday December 14, 2009, 12:27 pm
I do not condiser this an excellent or truthful article. I do commend yemen fro finally passing a law for marriage that reall y was a recent thing for this country as well as others as well as womens rights and in the same context would like people to look up when in this country a case came to court creating it illegal to rape your wife [as this was quite recent]. Men have used religion for centuries to downtrod women an this is wrong, however show me a passage in Sharia law or the Koran that allows rape or slavery. It doesn't exist. And as i said, I feel that you are singling in on a particular race and group when many can be considered guily, especialluy Christianiy and Judaism [as well as Hindu]. There is an epidemic of child abiuse and molestation in this country a fraction of the cases are brought to court.There is a serious issue with fundie Christian groups here that we need to deal with above and formost in this country that believe in the same ttype of child molestation you are talking about. Kimerley, you have an excellent point, the CIA only want a thorn in the side of the Russian and what was religion was bastardized into something horrible, I hate the Taliban. I loathe abuse to children or women as I have already stated but hate racism an attempted demonazation of people also. If you really care about women and children you try to do something to help them and their situation instead of trying to call their whole group bad. There are bad an good in all groups. It was an East Indian woman who tried to save a sold child on her plane an her people who gave her death threats because of it
 

Debra Holliday (38)
Monday December 14, 2009, 2:59 pm
Thank you for posting this. Everyone should do something about this great abomination.

"A WOMAN IS YOUR EQUAL.....WE ARE IN A NEW ENLIGHTENED AGE....."

Thank you, JESUS!!!!!!!!!
 

Gillian M (218)
Monday December 14, 2009, 3:47 pm
Abdessalam, Not everyone follows the age of consent. In modern times the girls mature younger then disobey their parents and run off with their boyfriend. It happens but not all the time.

Honour killings are frequent in Muslim countries as the girls are kept close by their families so what does a young man do who has no outlet for his surging hormones? Well, he rapes his sister/niece/cousin whoever he has access to. Then, the girl is impure so her brother has to kill her.... I agree that not all Muslim men are like that but sufficient are to cause concern. In Gaza a man killed his widowed 28 year old daughter with 4(?) children because she received a phone call on her mobile and he thought it was a boyfriend (no ir wasn't) and he beat her to death with an iron bar with his eldest son holding her. There are other stories, all obscene, and all in contradiction to the UN child agreement that each country has signed. I object to a 15 year old girl with learning disabilities being hung because her uncle abused her and she couldn't deal with it. Oh yes, nothing happened to him!!

Now, which is preferable, a 15 year old girl with a baby or a dead raped/abused girl?

What Dr Kathi is pointing out is that it is unacceptable to marry a young girl, 12 or 13 years old, to a man as this is removing her childhood. When there was a short life expectancy and no medical aid then people married young and died young (usually all babied out). Now, it is no longer necessary and the way the Yemen sees it the best way to go forward is to pass a law.

I agree that it takes a lifetime to learn a religion and your views should change as you get older with a better life understanding. Dr Kathi has found that Shariah law does not have a minimum age limit for marriage. This is what is concerning her, and other members here, in that there is no protection for little girls. I personally think that 16 is a little young but it is the age of consent here with 18 the age of majority. The girls are not owned by their family and forcibly divorced by their brothers 10 years on after her father dies because they don't like the husband. The West sees them as individuals with their own rights, does Shariah Law?
 

Aisha bint Oziel (2)
Monday December 14, 2009, 3:52 pm
“and live with them (wives) honourably” [al-Nisaa’ 4:19]

“And they (women) have rights over their husbands similar to those of their husbands over them to what is reasonable” [al-Baqarah 2:228]

It was narrated that Abu Hurayrah (radiy Allahu anhu) said: “The Messenger of Allah (salallahu alayhi wa salaam) said: ‘Be kind to women.’”(Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 3153; Muslim, 1468)

It was narrated from ‘Ubaadah ibn al-Saamit that the Messenger of Allah (salallahu alayhi wa salaam) ruled: “There should be no harming nor reciprocating harm.” (Narrated by Ibn Maajah,, 2340)

Prophet Muhammad (salallahu alayhi wa salaam) said: “The best of you is the one who is best towards his wife".

Prophet Muhammad (salallahu alayhi wa salaam) said: "A virgin should not be married without asking her permission".

By the way, the Islamic punishment for rape is death.

Men who marry girls by force and rape them or treat them with violence will burn in Hell, unless they later regret their actions and sincerely ask for God's forgiveness.
 

. (0)
Monday December 14, 2009, 4:02 pm
This really is pretty easy to research and very depressing. Our sisters are powerless against this system. Thank you for a good article, Kathi
 

Jaclin S (230)
Monday December 14, 2009, 4:26 pm
And this is all supposedly done in the name of "religion"!!! Absolutely despicable and unacceptable. Love & Light
 

Wolfweeps Pommawolf (251)
Monday December 14, 2009, 4:54 pm
Noted, and angry that this is still a power and control over the women of the world. Women are the bearer of the children of the world, which makes us the nurturers, the shapers and the comforters, the teachers for the children of the world. Why in this day that we still have to struggle for our basic human rights...especially over our own bodies and minds....grrr...howling mad this ole wolf is indeed. Rather than use the words that want to be used........I'll just post this instead....howl damn tired of the cruelty of the men is these countries who still feel so threatened by a strong woman in the here and now...

I am so glad to be a woman in this day and age.
I have a voice and every right to use it as a tool to aid my sisters around the world.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Warrior Woman Has Fully Awoken!

This woman has been kind, gentle,
and has much love,
All of this has been given with
the blessing of the Great Spirit above,
But Great Spirit gave her something
else and she didn't know it...
The Great Spirit gave her
the blessing of being a warrior woman
as now her light is lit!

This warrior woman has come
fully alive today,
She is no longer anyone's slave or prey,
She is taking back her life today,
And those who know who she truly is,
can stay.
No longer will she live the lives of others,
She will give back the blames and responsibilities of others
where it belongs,
For she also has the bear and wolf inside her,
which is now so very powerful
and uniquely strong.


The warrior woman now knows what road she must follow,
For others it will be to hard to swallow.
Her life was taken from her unknowingly many years ago,
And this warrior woman is taking back her life before the next

winds blow.

Oh Sister Moon you give me the strength
as a warrior woman to conquer what's on my path,
high above and way beneath,
and the much needed strength to take on the wrath.

This warrior woman is fully awakened and is taking a stand,
taking the problems by the horns with my hand.
I will conquer all that is there,
all and who comes as they dare.

Warrior woman has fully awoken,
and many will see that they were mistaken
in robbing her of her life.
They as a thief, Warrior woman will conquer
and have no grief!

This warrior woman will protect her people, her son,
and those who need her.
If anyone hurts them, look out!
They will hear a GGGGGGRRRRRRRRR,
As they run and shout!

For now standing in front of you,
you see this warrior woman... you see me.
Someone special has taught me to be free,
From this day forward for me no more slavery...
Gentleness, kindness, and love is part of me, and so is my

dignity.
This is NOT WEAKNESS, as others believe.
But this strength is within me and within you.

I will listen to the spirits and grow,
I will travel in the whispering winds as they blow.
All the work I now do will be for Our People and all nations,
I will protect and guide the future generations.

Now it is time for me to travel on my new path,
As a warrior woman conquering all wrath.
If you ever see and want to meet me,
Please come, and I will also teach and share with you how to

be free.

Poem copyright © Lady J-Ann
Lady J-Ann has dedicated this piece to Survivors of Domestic

Violence.
Please take some time to visit her inspiring website, A Lady's

View

http://www.sapphyr.net/women/warriorwoman.htm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
FOR ANOTHER POEM ABOUT THE STRENGTH OF

WOMEN EVERYWHERE:
http://www.sapphyr.net/women/empwoman.htm

The Empowered Woman
by Sonny Carroll
 

Antonio Mendes (134)
Monday December 14, 2009, 5:47 pm
That young women are children! That's sexual abuse, that's a crime!
 

. (0)
Monday December 14, 2009, 6:07 pm
The point of this, Antonio, is that it is NOT a crime there. It is the law. Sometimes the law works against you, as it does against women in many parts of the world.
 

Brad C (40)
Monday December 14, 2009, 7:19 pm
Thank you Dr Kathi.
 

Casey Reed (44)
Monday December 14, 2009, 8:06 pm
Should OUTLAW all three Abrahamic Religions as barbaric, antiquated, Macho Alpha Male dominated traditions that oppress women, children, and create a pretext for supremacy, racism, hate, and war.

Imagine a world without religion, a brother and sisterhood of people living in peace...
 

. (0)
Monday December 14, 2009, 8:12 pm
You don't have to throw the baby out with the bath water, Casey. We just need to reform the religions and throw out the parts that don't work. A lot of good is done in the name of religion, too. Without churches there would have been no civil rights movement in this country. Churches organize volunteers to go to impoverished countries and build schools and clean water facilities. Churches organize drives to provide Christmas presents for the needy. It is black and white thinking that causes evil in the world, whether it's religious or secular.
 

Past Member (0)
Tuesday December 15, 2009, 12:14 am
Sharia law is religious as well as governmental. The UK and France are wishing that they never allowed Sharia law into their courts.

Sharia law is coming to America, Harold Koh a key Obama legal advisor believes that there is a place for Sharia law in our system.

Beware, this PC and "tolerance" propaganda is being used toi make way for Sharia Law. Do not for one moment believe that the moderate Muslims will prevail. They do not speak out against the extremists loud enough nor often enough to do so.

 

Bob E (113)
Tuesday December 15, 2009, 3:46 am
I am a firm supporter of Arabs and a Palestinian state. (I am firmly against Israeli occupation occupation and settlements) I love Middle East culture rich with traditions, food, beautiful people, a wonderful religion and a very full and interesting history. I support and love this region of the world. I wish more Americans understood more about the region. But I have to say this....

It is time for moderate Islamists to come out against practiced harsh Shariah Laws, against extremists like the Taliban, against tired age-old beliefs and modernize Islam.... Islamic countries need more education for their people and in particular for their girls and women. Islamic countries need modernization and moderation. New ideas need to spring forward and moderation needs to be broadcasted to their people and to the world......
 

Abdessalam Diab (145)
Tuesday December 15, 2009, 4:17 am
Chana B
Apparently or ,shall we say,obviously you didn't read the article or you shouldn't have said " The point of this, Antonio, is that it is NOT a crime there. It is the law. Sometimes the law works against you, as it does against women in many parts of the world." The article says that the government had already set a marriage age ( 17 years ) and says also that what happens is that people violate the law. Then how come you understood it is the law.PLEASE READ OR " look before you jump"
 

Abdessalam Diab (145)
Tuesday December 15, 2009, 5:22 am
Wolfweeps Says "howl damn tired of the cruelty of the men is these countries"
I say : I am not on the side of cruel men anywhere in the world.When I read your words " men in these countries" I have the impression that men in other countries are sooooooo kind.This makes me ask you a question . How are the men in AK, USA ? Are they all perfect and kind? Are some of them cruel or not.? You must not generalize when you speak about human being.Every where in the world there are cruel men and cruel women as well as Kind women and kind men. Am I correct ?We all understand that this article is a call for hatred no more no less.
 

Abdessalam Diab (145)
Tuesday December 15, 2009, 5:38 am
Gillian M. (111)
Read the comment of Aisha Bint Oziel .This is my comment on what you said
 

. (0)
Tuesday December 15, 2009, 5:48 am
Yes, Abdessalam, it is finally a law in Yemen, but only with a great deal of resistance, and it is perfectly legal in other Muslim countries, precisely because Shariah makes it very easy for men to get away with it. I could direct you to many sites that illustrate this. As has been pointed out, rape is not permitted in the Koran, but it is almost impossible for a woman to prove she was raped, as she needs 4 male witnesses to her rape to prove it was not willing. Otherwise, it is considered that she participated willingly and she can be put to death if it is proven she had sex outside of marriage, something that does not require 4 witnesses of any gender. I don't have to point out how this is stacked in favor of men, do I? And, no, men are not necessarily kind in the rest of the world, but women are not institutionally treated as chattel in the West.
 

. (0)
Tuesday December 15, 2009, 5:51 am
Thannnxxx Sweetie... This law is man made not God made... besides a loving father in Heaven would never ever allow his little children to be absued like this... this anges God and these men will be held accountable in the day of judgement for sure... how can anyone acccept this as a part of life that bring misery and untold suffering to young girls and even death.. this is a law straight out of the pit of hell... no wonder the devil comes as an angel of light
 

. (0)
Tuesday December 15, 2009, 6:03 am
I also meant to second BMutiny's praise for RAWA. Anyone who has not done so already should certainly check out their site - and donate some money. After all, this is the season of giving.
 

Past Member (0)
Tuesday December 15, 2009, 6:22 am
Bob E, I cannot agree with you more, as you said:
"It is time for moderate Islamists to come out against practiced harsh Shariah Laws, against extremists like the Taliban, against tired age-old beliefs and modernize Islam.... Islamic countries need more education for their people and in particular for their girls and women. Islamic countries need modernization and moderation. New ideas need to spring forward and moderation needs to be broadcasted to their people and to the world...... "

If that would happen, the Oslo dream of New Middle East where the structure of countries were similar to EU would become of reality and questions of borders would not mean that much. Or settlements. Or access to Churches, Mosques and Synagogues. Moderation needs to come first.
 

chris b (2474)
Tuesday December 15, 2009, 6:44 am
Is not the truth of this matter one of the literal interpretation of a rule by a few besmirching the repution of the many. A sin that many of us fall into when for example commenting on the relative cruelty of Canadian seal clubbers, Chinese cat boilers or Japanese illegal whaling or cruel dolphin slaughter just to take it away from the rather polarised argument that seems to be assuming only one religion has any fault in this area! Clearly not all members of any one group behave as each other and those that follow the extreme path will be the ones that are held up as the norm just as it is illogical to bracket the entire Canadian, Chinese or Japanese nation as all being cruel to animals. What appears to be required here is the sourcing of the article and its relationship to Islamic reality. Clearly if the facts are as stated then the practice is vile and abhorrent if they are not then we are doing what I have exampled in the animal cruelty field, tarring all with the same large brush. It is I think time to stop condemning each other and ascertain the true facts! On another thread for example one can read about the behind closed doors activites of the various elites in America procuring young children for their sexual gratification apparently not one of them a Moslem!
 

Dr Kathi A (215)
Tuesday December 15, 2009, 8:41 am
Stopped in at Care2 to do my daily clicks & send birthday comments. This is the ONLY posting I felt pulled to even see what it said. As I decided to take a break from this for a couple days & that I would then come back & get back to viewing comments.... Felt like for some reason, I should open & read it.

I am attacking or judging anyone of the MUSLIM nationality. It is NOT me that has written their, PRACTICED used & abuse of females. It IS in their Sharia Law, they are OPENLY doing this. They believe it is their RIGHT to use & abuse females. This is NOT my words, but theirs that state what they can do. They only use words of "marriage or wife" and "slaves".... I do not condemn them, they do that themselves. I did not say ALL Muslims are devout & do this. It is NOT the select or "elite" that do this either. It is mentioned that when these POOR men, basically, from what I had seen in their own statements, that they give little or no "dowry" [payment for marriage to very young girls, under age 10, to be their wife or slave; giving them the right, if they so desire to have sex with them]. So it is not the select or elite, it is a GENERAL PRACTICE to do such a vile thing. Their are GOOD MUSLIMS, I have friends of various religions, but they do not adhere to these DEPRAVED Sharia Laws, they do not go by this law at all. Yet they are Muslims. I have stated only what has been proven the case as their NORMAL way to conduct & treat the females of their families.

I am only saying that ANYONE, if a person born in the US follows the Sharia Law, they would be wrong. If a person born in Ireland or Australia followed the Sharia Law, they would be wrong. There are people across the globe that traffick humans, no religion involved, it is wrong. Does not mean that ALL humans are only pure evil. Just means that any that PRACTICE this are evil.

I only responded to being told that this is NOT what the Sharia Law states & I was wrong. I am not wrong, this is what the Sharia Law professes as LAW & want to get it passed in the US, from what I am seeing, for this law to be made US LAW, as well. No where in the US, to my knowledge, has any religion been allowed to pass it as LAW [legally allowable] for them to sexually assault females or anyone else.
 

Dr Kathi A (215)
Tuesday December 15, 2009, 8:49 am

I can speak from point of being raised a Baptist in the US, I was told by my pastor that I had to put up with the abuse from my [ex-husband now] husband because we were married; he even literally told the pastor that I was his property & he could treat me as he wanted. This is not legal in the US NOR in the Word of God, a husband is to treat his wife with benevolence [according to the GREEK, kindness in conjugal duty (sex), good will]. There is also WARNINGS in the Holy Bible NOT to harm children [can take my word on this or look it up, I ALWAYS try to look things up myself, to be sure I know what is truly stated].

Yet, I know for fact there are good Baptist. I do not condemn Baptist for the lack of decency in some. However, if they tried to push a law on me or anyone else, trying to say it was their "religious right" to rape children or anyone else, I would stand against this. NOT the Muslims, but the Sharia Law is what I stand against. Again, it NOT the MUSLIMS I am upset with....but this Sharia Law & anyone who practices it.

Have family & friends that are Catholic. They do not molest children, appears that it is a practice that SOME priest think their right.l I stand against ANYONE who thinks it is their right to use or abuse others.

COMPLETELY stand on this, ANYONE who uses or abuses a CHILD, they are depraved & should not be allowed around children. Anyone who would sell ["dowry"] off their child to anyone KNOWS full well this person is going to RAPE their child. They are WRONG in doing this. PERIOD.

If you think this is a practice that should be allowed, sorry, would have to say I do not think you are a decent human being. If you are not reading what I have written & want to jump on the "religion" or "Muslim" factor of this.... I am not against ANY race or nation, I am only AGAINST what is NOT decent. Common sense tells a human what is right & what is wrong. When they hide under a "religious right" to use & abuse, that is evil, no matter what "religion" it is. It is NOT the religion, but the people who are depraved. When they interject their depravity into the religion, that is where the problem is.
 

Katz R (54)
Tuesday December 15, 2009, 9:31 am
Again, I feel that no religion or their practices should be allowed to over ride law and justice in this or any other country however what i have noticed is the biggest damage done here in this country is both Christianity as it is perceived by it;s members and the same with Judaisim are more of a serious threat of being mingled with law than that of the Koran. It's not Sharia law that allowed and crated an innocent doctor to be murdered or that has affected womens rights to what they want to do here. It wasn't a Muslim site that has singled outy individuals an given their day to day activities in blogs and said they belong on a hit list.Nor was it Sharia law that had anything to do with the allowance of Catholic churches to cover up untold amounts of child molestation cases by priests. Nor is it Sharia law that has tried to demand in this country the right to immunity of any practices above the law for their religious beliefs.There are many deplorable things that are veing done around the world under the guise of religion an the bastardized verses of such but back to the basics, where in the Koran are you seeing this???? I'm not talking about a blog site that is a thinly veiled racist as well as religious mecca for anti Islam or Arabic [an yes that would include the other groups that practice Islam too]. Man has tried to utilize his religion for some time to get away with atrocities against others as well as individuals under their own religion. I highly disagree with the way the Koran is interpeted sometimes but equally so with the Bible and then the old testament which claimed a chosen people had the right to do anything to anyone else
 

Catherine Turley (192)
Tuesday December 15, 2009, 10:26 am
in case folks missed it, this is one of the most reputable charities i know of that educates girls in the middle east. the central asia institute at
www.ikat.org

and a petition with informative links at
www.thepetitionsite.com/2/truth-about-islam
 

Ben O (132)
Tuesday December 15, 2009, 10:28 am
"If God were alive today, he'd be an atheist"
(Kurt Vonnegut)
 

marie C (163)
Tuesday December 15, 2009, 10:29 am
One word describes Sharia Law VILE Kathleen R says it all misinterpretation of all holy books is so dangerous Star on the way Kathleen
 

Debra Holliday (38)
Tuesday December 15, 2009, 3:36 pm
kathleen, your statement against Christianity and Judaism is noted even though it is not what this article is about: "It's not Sharia law that allowed and crated an innocent doctor to be murdered......" I will point out though that it is not Christianity or Judaism that allows someone to murder that doctor,either!

However, our point about Shariah law is that it does allow men to abuse women and to kill infadels, of which we Christians are to them. People can be evil -- "yes, Virginia, there is evil in the world" and some religions allow that to happen, some (Christ centered) do not ("I say do not hate your enemy, but pray for your enemy..." "Do not condemn, lest you be condemned....")

The Muslims are pushing Sharia law in the U.S. and are using intimidation (death threats) and bullying tactics to push their law onto our books. Be warned -- if you think Christians trying to protect and save the unborn who cannot speak, are trying to shove their love down your throat so women can f--- anyone at anytime they want without responsibility, calling it freedom, is threatening, you haven't seen anything yet when Sharia Law gets here!!!!!
 

. (0)
Tuesday December 15, 2009, 3:37 pm
Kathleen, I'm not sure where you got your impression that the Bible says that "the chosen people had the right to do anything to anyone else," but that is far from true. It is full of ethical demands and the Jewish tradition teaches that Jews were chosen not as being released from obligations but as being subject to more restrictions and obligations than non-Jews are.
 

Carmen S (69)
Tuesday December 15, 2009, 6:36 pm
This is disgusting. The whole world should do something about this. These children cannot ever be children. They are forced to enter a horrible situation and forced to become adults. what a world we live in. God Help Us.
 

Barbara Tomlinson (431)
Tuesday December 15, 2009, 8:11 pm
"how would western civilization know that not all Islam upholds Sharia Law?"
This is NOT the Middle Ages, when news travelled by camel, horseback and on foot!

How would we KNOW? well, we can talk to Muslim people; read their books, magazines and newspapers; read what travellers and journalists have written about them; see TV newscasts, videos, films, go to Islamic sites on the Internet..... {as I just did a few hours ago, it's no big deal....}

This is NOT the 12th Century, when Crusaders on their way to the Crusades in the Holy Land, had little idea of the kind of civilization {more advanced in literacy, science and technology than Europe's at the time!} that they would encounter!

If you are IGNORANT about Islam and Islamic peoples, it can only be BECAUSE YOU WANT TO BE IGNORANT ON PURPOSE. "How do we know", indeed!
It's not as if there is a HUGE GAP in time and space, between "western civilization" and the Islamic world!
And without the scientific and technological advances of the "Islamic world", WE WOULD NOT HAVE "WESTERN CIVILIZATION" in its present form!!! There is NO "big wall of difference" between what we arrogantly choose to call "Western Civilization" and the rest of the world.

"Islam has allways been a conversion by the sword religion." NOT TRUE, NOT TRUE, SIMPLY NOT TRUE.
Go back to school and get an education. There can be NO DISPUTE about the FACTS of History. You are simply parroting NONSENSE.
Look up the word "Convivencia". That was a period in History when people of Islamic religion ruled Spain; and Muslims, Christians and Jews all got along wonderfully together, for a period of hundreds of years; that flowered into a Golden Age of learning and science. [Many of our scientific WORDS are of Arabic-Muslim origin.}

This site wants to FOSTER ANTI-ISLAMIC HYSTERIA by suggesting that the proponents of Sharia Law have some "Mysterious Ability" to get Sharia Law passed as Law in the U.S., to supercede the U.S. Constitution. WHAT COMPLETE AND TOTAL PROPAGANDA NONSENSE. How is this to be done? thru MASS HYPNOTISM? thru some sort of SECRET MIND-CONTROL RAY? You'll wake up tomorrow and your female children will be suddenly slaves by Law? GET A GRIP! Even if there are slavering fanatics out there who WANT this to happen, how are they going to acquire the power..... nuke every member of Congress and the Supreme Court and every American lawyer all at once? even THEN they couldn't get such ridiculous backwards laws passed.....
 

Danielle W (5)
Tuesday December 15, 2009, 9:03 pm
very upsetting to say the least
 

Dr Kathi A (215)
Tuesday December 15, 2009, 9:25 pm
Have a GRIP! It took ONE woman in the US to get a LAW passed to take God out of school; not some "Mysterious Ability"..... The US was founded on freedom of religion & God is mentioned in the earliest writings of the US Laws. Decline of US since that day [though it was before my time, I know about it. There are others LAWS that have passed in the US that affect everyone here, by ONE person pushing what they want until they get their way, at the expense of others].

I completely agree with not forcing any religion on anyone. Also have seen & heard from Islamic EXPERTS, not US citizens trying to interpret what the Sharia Law says. No age requirement. What two year old female has any say in it when they are, GIVEN in marriage to a male who gives family a dowry [buys for marriage or slavery] the little girl. If he RAPES her & she complains, she can be brought back to her parent & dowry must be returned. Or, when she gets too old for him at age ten or so, he can DIVORCE her & get dowry [sell her] to someone else. This is DEPRAVED.

ONLY way, according to Sharia Law for female to PROVE RAPE is to have FOUR adult MALES witness it & verify it was rape. Have you ever been raped? How many witnesses do you think are present during a RAPE, unless they are doing the raping?

I, NOT Care2, is anti-Islamic. I am ANTI-Sharia LAW. Beginning & end of the issue. If you have read my comments you would know this. So you are saying that Allah did not agree to this Sharia Law? If not, then why is it practiced? Since you are the expert & all other sources are wrong?

Personally, I could care less what race, color anyone's skin is, eye color, hair color....etc.... What is on the inside is what matters to me. Plain & simple, anyone who wants to AGREE with ANY LAW that allows ANY PERSON, ESPECIALLY a CHILD, to be given away as property, to be raped & abused & say it is alright because it is their right in their religion, SIMPLY EVIL & DEPRAVED....There are rapist that are, I am sure of every race, skin color, eye color, hair color & religious background....STILL EVIL & should be stopped. I do NOT parrot, I can actually READ & LISTEN to what is being said. I can EVEN comprehend it, go figure. I'm not just a pretty face, I actually have a BRAIN & USE it. I do not HIDE in the dark & pretend that if someone says it is alright it is, when it very clearly is NOT.

My goal is for everyone to get along together & be KIND to one another. Being kind to one another is NOT selling off your daughter or sister as property or divorcing your wife & reselling her to someone else. Slep on that. Then, do some research with your head out of the sand & LISTEN to what is actually being said about the Sharia Law by those who practice it, not me. I am just stating what they say is their "Right" under the "Sharia Law" by proper terms, RAPE & ABUSE of the females. I am not saying ALL Muslim men follow this law. I am not saying that ALL Muslim women are raped & abused.


However, when a FEMALE CHILD under the age of, what age would you say would be acceptable, to be forced into having sex after being "given in marriage"? Let me know your answer to that one & I will get back to comment ASAP.
 

Dr Kathi A (215)
Wednesday December 16, 2009, 10:27 am
BMutiny ThemIDefy, there are barbarians in the US that think they can do with their wife or woman, as they please, because they are their property. I know this is not just a problem in any one part of the world. It takes place here in the US, presently. Does not matter what the culture, here, there, I do not care; to use & abuse anyone because they are weaker than you or female [inferior, which is not the truth], is WRONG. I was personally married to a US born & bred male who SAID I was his property, even to the pastor who married us.

If you read what I have stated, I did NOT say ALL Muslims practiced this evil act. There are good & there are evil people in every walk of life in every country. Simply because they CHOOSE to be that way. I try to see the good in people, long after they have proven the opposite. However, when any person can CLAIM it their right to treat another human in such a vile manner, UNACCEPTABLE. You even say you agree with this. That is ALL I was saying. Stand by this 100%. It is wrong is a grown woman is forced into having sex with her "husband" or "master" when she is a slave. How devastating in ever manner it is on a little girl. Their body & their mind is NOT capable of comprehending what is happening to them. How do you ever trust anyone when your father marries you off to a grown man & makes you live with him when you are just a small child [sells you for a dowry, as a wife or slave to this man; because you, being female & a CHILD, have no say in it]. At what point is this acceptable? No one has answered this for me. In fact, since I asked the above question, no one has even responded again with their "HATE" towards me for pointing out this evil Sharia Law, NOT ever saying it was Muslims or people from the Mid East, only this particular law, said nothing about the Koran or any other leaning. I have nothing against any religion, except where I personally have had to deal with wrongs. People can TWIST any spiritual beliefs, by adding their own personal "LAWS" to corrupt the beauty in the spirituality to get away with whatever they want to do.

There are good & there are bad people in every community on earth; does not matter if they are spiritual, military/police, market owner, paper deliverer.... I have spoken out about priest and ministers who have molested/RAPED children in their care; coaches who molest/RAPE children under their supervision.... Does not matter, they are ALL EVIL & WRONG for doing such things. Here in the US women have been put in jail for having sex with under aged boys, WRONG & RAPE, in my opinion. These little boys should not be approached by a teacher who knows how to arouse them & then to have sex with them, this is DEPRAVED too. The ones that I know have been jailed for this were white women from the US. This is a shame for adults to conduct themselves in such a manner towards any CHILD.
 

Dr Kathi A (215)
Wednesday December 16, 2009, 10:38 am
Will get back to each question, as I can. I do not single out ANY religion or law. This was brought to me, then when I forwarded it, as requested, AFTER checking for validity, I was told I was wrong & that I misunderstood. I did neither. I understood, full well what was openly stated. I am against ANY adult who would harm any CHILD in this blatant way & then excuse it as their "right" to do so. Would be kinder of them just to kill their daughters when they are born & know they are females. But then, they could not get CASH for their trouble, from what I gather from their own law.

If it is a Baptist preacher [was raised a Baptist, non-denominational is my stand for now], a Catholic priest, an atheist coach, an agnostic uncle.... Makes no difference to me.... IF they ABUSE or RAPE a CHILD, they are WRONG. No matter what they want to "sugar-coat" their reasons for doing so, it is WRONG.

I am easy-going & love people in general. However, I stand up for CHILDREN who are being used &/or abuse &/or RAPED. Any one with common decency, would agree. This was my ONE & ONLY POINT.
 

Dr Kathi A (215)
Wednesday December 16, 2009, 10:45 am
The Holy Bible even states that if a man RAPES a woman, he is to marry her. Anyone who has been raped, I am thinking would say, they do NOT want to marry a man who has raped them. The Holy Bible also states that anyone who harms a CHILD is accountable to God. Think that in nearly all cultures, their basic understanding in, nearly ALL religions, that I have ever studied even just a little on, believe you should do NO harm to anyone, especially CHILDREN.

Yet, in many of these instances, there have been "laws" or "rights" added by the culture at the time, ALLOWANCES [shall we call them] to allow depraved individuals the RIGHT to mistreat the, typically females, any way they want, including the females CHILDREN. Do not think that God, Jesus Christ, Allah, Buddha or any other deity from whatever your religious background is, would think it is acceptable to use or abuse any one, especially CHILDREN.
 

Dr Kathi A (215)
Wednesday December 16, 2009, 10:56 am
Honestly, from responses received, the only HATE that came out was from those who FAILED to read what was written. Not from some racist blog site, but from EXPERTS from the Islamic community & from the Sharia Law itself. Sorry you are too deep in Your blindness towards anyone who can think for themselves & has a heart for others, especially those who appear to have no rights, for whatever the BOGUS reason being held against them.
 

Dr Kathi A (215)
Wednesday December 16, 2009, 11:01 am
Will keep apprised of this issue. Will RESEARCH it, as human trafficking. It will be part of my time at Care2 now. As there seems to be a real need here. Have a lovely rest of the year. Appreciate the words of encouragement from those who READ what was written instead of going into a blind rage about racist comments or whatever.... As I stated, my own father has little regard for the females of the human race. However, he would never have sold me off in marriage to the highest bidder. He would even think that is depraved.
 

Wolfweeps Pommawolf (251)
Wednesday December 16, 2009, 4:41 pm
Abdessalam,
Many men in all countries, nations, towns, villages and communities have the the mindset that women are a piece of property, and that goes for the United States as well. I have met many men over the years who cannot seem to yank their brain into the current times to understand that women have a brain, and they damn well "DO" have the right to stand up and speak out about the injustice's that have been heaped upon the women of the world. I will not apoligize for that.
As for Alaska...as for all the other 49 states....we have agressive, ill educated, meanspirited men who cannot seem to comprehend that this is 2009...going into 2010, and women do have the right to demand change whether they like it or not......*S* And I will howl to the heavens as the spirit moves me..as even it is my right to do so....*S*

I will generalize when the need be as it is better than using an attack tone which was never intended, but apparently by you it was.
Well, if you do not like the term "men" for the male of the species,..then what else am I to call them?
Most of the nations in the middle east have little or no women in their political powers now do they? Women have little if any say or the building of laws in the Arab nations at all do they?
As for the United States, there should be more women in government, but alas it is still an uphill battle as well.
As for Alaska, you'd be rather surprised at the number of women who live here that are of the strongest backbone I have ever met.....and they do use their voice when they have something to say and to fight for. And thank the powers that be they do not all have the mind set of Palin.
 

marie C (163)
Wednesday December 16, 2009, 5:55 pm
A point being missed I can not think of a religion where it is legal to Rape a child or BUY a wife. Sharia law is for the ignorant or insane sickos I have never met a Muslim who agreed with it. Stop comparing mentally ill priests or any one else it is totally different if pastors vicars teachers fathers etc commit indecent assault on children in USA Europe or anywhere in the educated world they go to prison it is not accepted as normal. What about some people who call themselves Muslims who murder there daughters if they want to marry or even have a non Muslim boy/girlfriend relationship I believe it must be put down to fear and ignorance again lack of education.
Things are slowly changing in the UK with the younger generation you hear the odd horror story but it is not as common as it used tobe occasionally it is in ghettos pockets of new immigrants who do not mix with any other nationality or religion. I believe it will all change I often find it fun to see so many Muslim girls fiddling and lifting the veil letting everyone see when their husband s or fathers are not looking . Living in UK especially the cities is weakening the old laws and rules I hope the same will happen in US Look a t Dubai ??????
There is one God call him what you like Allah Jehovah whatever he must weep over Sharia Law
 

marie C (163)
Wednesday December 16, 2009, 6:13 pm
Abdesallem I think it would be better for a 12 - 13 year old to terminate the pregnancy rather than adopt and how many of these girls have loving families at least in USA and most of the world the girl/woman has the choice thank God We have to get real I believe it is much easier for Muslims to live in Muslim countries once they come to Uk or USA it is only a matter of time before they are cheating . Drinking alcohol eating bacon. I always laugh one Muslim family I am friendly with tells me when I invite them to dinner "you can serve us pork but do not tell us "
Things are changing A lot of the strong Muslims I see as I live near a mosque are English converts I am told by a Muller friend of mine (what a wise wonderful man he is)that they make the best devout Muslims
 

Wolfweeps Pommawolf (251)
Wednesday December 16, 2009, 11:09 pm
The Invitation

It doesn't interest me what you do for a living.
I want to know what you ache for, and if you dare to dream of meeting your heart's longing.

It doesn't interest me how old you are.
I want to know if you will risk looking like a fool for love, for your dream, for the adventure of being alive.

It doesn't interest me what planets are squaring your moon.
I want to know if you have touched the center of your own sorrow, if you have been opened by life's betrayals or have become shriveled and closed from fear of further pain! I want to know if you can sit with pain, mine or your own, without moving to hide it or fade it, or fix it. I want to know if you can be with joy, mine or your own, if you can dance with wildness and let the ecstasy fill you
to the tips of your fingers and toes without cautioning us to be careful, to be realistic, to remember the limitations of being human.

It doesn't interest me if the story you are telling me is true.
I want to know if you can disappoint another to be true to yourself; if you can bear the accusation of betrayal and not betray your own soul; if you can be faithless and therefore trustworthy.
I want to know if you can see beauty even when it's not pretty, every day, and if you can source your own life from its presence.
I want to know if you can live with failure, yours and mine, and still stand on the edge of the lake and shout to the silver of the full moon, "Yes!"

It doesn't interest me to know where you live or how much money you have.
I want to know if you can get up, after the night of grief and despair, weary and
bruised to the bone, and do what needs to be done to feed the children.

It doesn't interest me who you know or how you came to be here.
I want to know if you will stand in the center of the fire with me
and not shrink back.

It doesn't interest me where or what or with whom you have studied.
I want to know what sustains you, from the inside, when all else falls away.

I want to know if you can be alone with yourself and if you truly like
the company you keep in the empty moments.


by Oriah Mountain Dreamer
copyright © 1999 by Oriah Mountain Dreamer
(now known simply as "Oriah")
 

Wolfweeps Pommawolf (251)
Wednesday December 16, 2009, 11:10 pm
YOU ROCK SISTERS....We women are the future.....and if can't be heard...then it's their problem....*S*
 

Abdessalam Diab (145)
Thursday December 17, 2009, 6:03 am
A SINCERE MESSAGE TO ALL THOSE WHO STARTED THIS THREAD AND WHO COMMENTED:PLEASE BEWARE THIS IS A MESSAGE OF HATRED. I CHALLENGE ALL WHO TALKED ABOUT WHAT THEY CALL SHAREA LAW TO GIVE ONE VERSE OF KORAN THAT ALLOWS OR ENCOURAGES EARLY MARRIAGE OR RAPING WOMEN OR THE NECECITY TO BRING 4 WITNESS AS A PROOF OF RAPING A WOMAN. IN ALL ISLAMIC COUNTRIES THERE ARE LAWS THAT SET A MARRIAGE AGE HIGHER THAT THAT IN USA AND EUROPE . NOT ALL WEB SITES ARE CORRECT OTHERWISE ALAKAEDA WEBSITE WILL BE CONSIDERED CORRECT AS WELL. BE WISE AND LOOK AT THE POSITIVE FACE OF ISLAM WHICH STILL ATRECTS HUNDREDS IF NOT THOUSANDS ANNUALLY TO CONVERT TO ISLAM OR MAY BE THIS IS WHY YOU ARE SO ANGRY AND TRYING TO DRAW A BAD AND FALSE IMAGE ABOUT ISLAM.LET US LIVE IN PEACE AND DON"T TRY TO IMPOSE EACH OTHERS CULTURE ON OTHER PEOPLE.THE DIVERSITY OF THE WORLD IS THE BEST THING.NO BODY WILL AGREE TO BE A COPY OF HIS NEIGHBOR OR EVEN HIS FRIEND> STOP THIS MESSAGE OF HATRED.
 

marie C (163)
Thursday December 17, 2009, 6:29 am
Wolfweeps what wonderful word they are what we should all strive towards
Dear Abdessalam none of us on this thread are quoting the Koran this is not about Islam there is no hatred from any of us why are you taking it this way Sharea law is abuse of Islam The Koran is an incredible book there should be no laws of marriage just pure love and understanding and compatibility. There are fanatical off shoots of all religions it does not make the religions any less. As I said I believe there is one GOD we just call him different names There is no HATRED I admire and respect your comments your beliefs do not come into it we are all friends from different walks of life giving an opinion. Some BORN AGAIN CHRISTIANS in UK are crazy with their beleifs in my opinion but that has nothing to do with th bible or christianity Please do not take my remarks personally as they were not meant that way .
 

Abdessalam Diab (145)
Thursday December 17, 2009, 6:32 am
Dr.Kathi. My sympathy for the family complex that led you to raise this hatred message.
 

Mitch Offutt (47)
Thursday December 17, 2009, 9:54 am
Bmutiny, Mr. Diab. You preasent yourselves as learned, stabile and reasonable , why don't you both , right now, renounce your radical, extremist destructable Islamic elements, The Taliban, Al Queda, Hezbullah etc ?? Your refusal or repudiation will show others your intent. Otherwise you condone by your silence. Now is your chance to start stopping the zealots.
 

Dr Kathi A (215)
Thursday December 17, 2009, 11:30 am
TO :ABDESSALM DIAB...YOU ARE the one pushing HATE. I only HATE any LAW, religious or otherwise, that allow a man to RAPE a CHILD. You need to look at what you back, it is NOT Muslims or the Koran I am against, it is a TWISTED "religious right" to marry & RAPE a CHILD.

Have you read ANY thing that I have written? Or are you so afraid that someone might say it is wrong for you to rape a child? If so, I am against you as well, for this. That is a DEPRAVED way to view a life. Male or FEMALE, life is life. RAPE of a child is RAPE of a child. It is NOT consent for a CHILD to marry an adult & be used & abused sexually, it is RAPE, even if the CHILD does not realize it....As they ar being told it is what they MUST do. READ before you accuse me of spreading HATE. I have said NOTING against ISLAM, only this EVIL Sharia Law. Open your eyes before you accuse anyone of what you ARE doing. I am only ANGRY against FEMALE CHILDREN being treated wrongfully under this Sharia Law. AGAIN, RAPE is RAPE.

ABDESSALAM DIAB, you have made this a personal situation. QUOTE me from what I have written that says that I am against anyone in particular. Just opposite is true. YOU are upset, it would appear, because YOU must enjoy this "religious right" to RAPE female children MAYBE?
 

Dr Kathi A (215)
Thursday December 17, 2009, 12:09 pm
Again, Abdessalam Diab, YOU are the only one pushing HATE, NOT me. I aonly HATE the twisted views that you, have made clear, by YOUR HATRED of being told what you obviously enjoy, RAPING of FEMALE CHILDREN. You are NOT an educated man, for this I am truly sorry.

Common sense should play a role in this, sorry, you do not seem to have any of that either.

READ before you accuse me of anything. If you are not educated enough to comprehend....Have someone else read it & explain it to you.

My only HATRED is for the ABUSE &/OR RAPE or abuse of ANY child or woman, just because they are FEMALE. Does not matter to me where they live, who their leaders are, what their religion, what their color of skin or hair or eyes are. It is NOT a RACE issue or a RELIGIOUS issue, it is a HATRED for ANY one is who is NOT MAN enough to admit they RAPE children & say it alright because it is their "religious right" to do so.

Seriously, get someone to help you that is educated enough to understand what I have written. You have made this a personal attack on me. Now I will comment towards you.

Abdessalm Diab, YOU seem to want to back this Sharia aw, making YOU a DEPRAVED PERVERT-RAPIST, from your backing of this "law".

I have said NOTHING against any Muslim or the Koran or Islam.

I STAND against this Sharia Law to allow the "marriage" [sale] of female children to their "husband" [rapist].

What age do you think is PROPER for a MAN to RAPE a FEMALE? As this law states that a female must have FOUR MEN witnesses to a rape to prove it is rape. HOW RIDICULOUS can one get?

How do you sleep at night A. Diab?
 

Dr Kathi A (215)
Thursday December 17, 2009, 12:50 pm
A. Diab, "Dr.Kathi. My sympathy for the family complex that led you to raise this hatred message."

I have no need of your sympathy....I HATE ALL child RAPIST, "religious right" or whatever, RAPE is RAPE is RAPE. I stand RIGHT, you stand behind EVIL, again, if you back Sharia Law. My HATE is toward the Sharia Law, NOT anything else, if you had READ what I wrote. You should seek HELP. I have NOT said anything against Islam or the Koran or anything else on the whole, except the Sharia Law, EVIL, period.

Quote me, where I have said anything against anything other than this evil practice. DARE YOU to state your out-right anger towards me for pointing out the TRUTH of this Sharia Law & you want to put focus where nothing was even stated. Simply PATHETIC.
 

Abdessalam Diab (145)
Thursday December 17, 2009, 12:59 pm
DR.KATE
This is not personal.You are trying to make it personal.Accusing me of not being educated enough is some thing against Care 2 principals.Apparently you either don't know what you are talking about or have no Idea about the words you are using.You say that you are not against Islam or the Koran and that you are only against rape.At the same time you say you are only attacking "Sharea law".Do you understand what "Sharea law" means ? It simply means " Islamic law " which is taken from the Koran. How come then that you are not talking about Islam? I am also against rape of all kinds but talking raping children or women ,which is a global cause,and linking this to what you call "Sharea law"is absolutely incorrect.The Islamic punishment for rape is death.Did you realize now the hatred message behind this posting of a story or a message you received from some body.I can not only read very well but understand and evaluate what I read.
IT IS YOU WHO APPARENTLY WHO DON"T READ WELL> DID YOU READ THE COMMENT OF A MUSLIM WOMAN ON THIS THREAD NAMELY THE COMMENT POSTED BY AISHA BINT OZIEL? PLEAE GET RID OF HATRED ANT COMPLEX.LET PEOPLE LIVE IN PEACE INSTEAD OF SETTING THE FIRE.
 

Abdessalam Diab (145)
Thursday December 17, 2009, 1:15 pm
Marie
FOR YOUR KNOWLEGE "SHAREA LAW " MEANS " ISLAMIC LAW " WHICH IS TAKEN FROM THE KORAN SO WHEN SAY PEOPLE ACCUSE SHAREA LAW OF PERMITING RAPE THIS MEANS THAT ISLAMIC LAW IS PERMITING RAPE WHICH IS NOT CORRECT AT ALL.THE PUNISHMENT OF RAPE IN ISLAM IS DEATH.I HOPE YOU UNDERSTAND NOW WHY I BELIEVE THIS IS A HATERED MESSAGE AND THE EVIL TARGET BEHIND IT IS TO ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO HATE EACH OTHERS.
 

Debra Holliday (38)
Thursday December 17, 2009, 1:27 pm
No, Mr. Diab, it is not "to encourage people to hate each others." It is encouraged to change laws that ALLOW attrocities to continue. If the Sharea Law has holes in it that is allowing perverts to take advantage of children/young women, then it needs to be changed! Our hatred is to the ones that take advantage, and our hatred is toward the law that somehow allows it to take place; not the people that live upright!
 

Abdessalam Diab (145)
Thursday December 17, 2009, 1:48 pm
UNDER ISLAMIC LAW RAPISTS PUNISHMENT IS DEATH > READ THIS


"After he let me live I wished he killed me."

Such were Debbie Smith's words after describing a rape she endured nearly 20 years ago when a masked man abducted her from her home and took her to a nearby woods where he repeatedly raped her.

Early this week, Smith took to Capitol Hill to share her story with a Senate panel in an attempt to urge them to eliminate the startling backlog of untested rape kits in the U.S.

Exactly how many rape kits are we talking about?

A 5-month CBS investigation revealed that more than 20,000 rape kits in major American cities have gone untested and another 6,000 are sitting in crime labs waiting months, if not years, to be tested.

"Can you imagine going through an exam like what goes on in one of those things for nothing? To know that you were just traumatized again, for it to sit on a shelf, it's not fair," Smith said.

INo, it's not fair or just.

While the rape kits pile up in labs across the country, rapists walk free and in many cases go on to rape others. In fact, research shows that 71% of rapists are repeat offenders.

In cities where rape kits are tested in a timely manner, however, the results are stunning. In New York City, for example, where every rape kit is tested, the arrest rate for rape is 70% – that's nearly triple the national average.

New York City has proved that testing rape kits helps convict rapists who otherwise might have found other victims. Allowing rape kits to collect dust in crime labs not only prevents women from seeking justice, it endangers others from being raped by someone who should be in jail.

"Each box holds within it vital evidence that is crucial to the safety of women everywhere," a tearful Smith said at the hearing where several senators called for the need to strengthen a 2005 bill (named after Smith) aimed at reducing the backlog of untested rape kits.

Doing so is imperative for women's safety in this country – a country where last year nearly 90,000 women reported being raped and another estimated 75,000 attacks went unreported. A country where in that same year the rate of rape related arrest was just 25% while the rate for murder was 79% and aggravated assault was 51%.

Women deserve to live in a country where they can come forward and report a rape knowing that they will be taken seriously, that if they choose to endure a rape kit it is not for naught.

Women deserve a chance at justice.

Related from Care2:

"Culture of Secrecy" Sur
 

Debra Holliday (38)
Thursday December 17, 2009, 1:51 pm
Just really need to share this story -- there are many others like it from around the world in persecution.org :

Egyptian Christian women forced to marry, convert to Islam, reports say


Posted on Dec 14, 2009 | by Cindy Ortiz
WASHINGTON (BP)--Coptic Christian women in Egypt are being forced to marry and convert to Islam and that oppression is part of a larger pattern of persecution against Christians facilitated by the Egyptian government, according to two recent reports.

"Cases of abduction, forced conversion and marriage are usually accompanied by acts of violence which include rape, beatings, deprivation of food and other forms of physical and mental abuse," said a new assessment by Christian Solidarity International and the Coptic Foundation for Human Rights.

At the same time, the 2009 U.S. State Department report on international religious freedom noted the Egyptian government fails to prosecute crimes against Copts and even has taken a hand in destroying church property and, in one case, a government official reportedly raped a woman who had converted from Islam to Christianity.

About 90 percent of the Egyptian population is Sunni Muslim, and the rest primarily identify themselves as Coptic Christians, according to the Human Rights Watch report "Prohibited Identities: State Interference with Religious Freedom." Copts typically are underprivileged and experience discrimination.

Egyptian sex traffickers entice Coptic Christian women from low-income families by promising an escape from poverty, then force the women into Muslim "marriages" or outright slavery, according to the CSI/CFHR report.

"Such abuse remains covered in a cloak of silence and tacit acceptance, even though it is against the constitutional affirmations of civil rights," the report said.

Once a Coptic girl is coerced into marriage and Islamic conversion, her family will not take her back, and if she leaves her "husband," she is considered a "disgrace" to her family, the report said. In addition, the Coptic Orthodox Church excommunicates female members who wed Muslim men, the State Department said.

Since Islam is the "religion of state" in Egypt, conversion to Islam is easy, while returning to Christianity is unacceptable, the HRW report said. The Civil Status Department, which issues national identity cards, sometimes refuses to give Coptic women a new card identifying her as Christian since it is considered apostasy for a Coptic woman to leave Islam, even to return to her religion of origin.

Egyptian law requires every citizen to have an identity card for purposes such as voting, employment and education.

Most of the cases of Coptic women being coerced into marriage are not reported and "observers, including human rights groups, find it extremely difficult to determine whether compulsion was used, as most cases involve a female Copt who converts to Islam when she marries a Muslim male," the State Department report said.

In two examples of coerced conversion, CSI/CFHR reported Nov. 10:

-- An Egyptian woman was raped and beaten since she would not have sex with the man she was forced to marry. The Coptic cross on her wrist was later removed with acid.

-- Another woman was forced to marry a Muslim lawyer and work for him in "slave-like conditions" for five years.

John Eibner, CSI's chief executive officer, urged President Obama in a letter to combat the trafficking of Christian women and girls in Egypt and to make sure the U.S. makes this issue a priority in its relations with Egypt.

"Trafficking of Christian women in Egypt is not a new phenomenon.... But this problem has now reached boiling point within Egypt's Coptic community, which views it as symptomatic of a much broader pattern of religious persecution," Eibner said in his letter.

 

Abdessalam Diab (145)
Thursday December 17, 2009, 1:53 pm
DEBRA HOLLIDAY
THE RAPE PUNISHMENT IN SHAREA LAW " ISLAMIC LAW " IS D E A T H....I REPEAT DEATH IS THE PENALTY OF RAPE IN ISLAMIC LAW. WHERE IS THE HOLE ?
 

Debra Holliday (38)
Thursday December 17, 2009, 2:14 pm
Sorry, but you can't use U.S. rape statistics in this case against us. We freely admit that not all Americans are Christians!

"In New York City, for example"
 

Abdessalam Diab (145)
Thursday December 17, 2009, 2:31 pm
Debra
( 1) WHY ARE YOU CHANGING THE SUBJECT?ARE YOU CONVINCED NOW THAT RAPE IS NOT ALLOWED UNDER ISLAMIC LAW AND THE RAPISTS HAVE DEATH PENALTY?
( 2 ) THERE ARE CHRISTIAN GIRLS THAT CONVERT TO ISLAM VULENTEERLY AND VICE VERSA. NO BODY CAN FORCE ANY PERSON TO CONVVVERT AGAINST HIS WILL.WHY DO YOU THIK THIS IS STRANG WHILE PROMINENT PEOPLE IN USA AND EUROPE CONVERT TO ISLAM EVERY DAY AND THEY ARE PROUD TO BE MUSLIMS?
(3)AMNISTY INTERNATIONAL IS GETTING THIS INFORMATION FROM THE FAMILIES OF THESE GIRLS WHO PREFERED TO CONVERT TO ISLAM AND VICE VERSA.
(4) I ,MYSELF,IS PRO CHOICE OF ANY HUMAN BEING WHO WANTS TO BE A PART OF ANY FAITH OR EVEN NON RELIGOUSE.THIS IS THRIE CHOICE.
 

Debra Holliday (38)
Thursday December 17, 2009, 2:52 pm
Well, I'm sorry you cannot see the persecutions around the world that so-called "Muslims" are doing in the name of Allah! There are hundreds of reports daily and I know that these are not fabricated stories.

By the way, Mr. Diab, I've also read that there are hundreds of muslims converting to Christianity if they are not so terrified of being killed for doing so.

So in the interest of peace, I WILL NOT SHOUT THAT no one should overlook their own sins toward others. We all should check the laws and the people that should be following those laws, especially if what you say is true about your law.

NO, I'm not changing the subject, just making our point! And I would like to be convinced that rape is not allowed under islamic law by seeing justice done to those who do -- by Islamics themselves. Then I will believe it.

 

Abdessalam Diab (145)
Thursday December 17, 2009, 3:05 pm
Debra
(1) I my self said, and please re read my comment,that Christian girls convert to Islam and vice verse.There is nothing to hide in this respect.
(2) This year in September as far as I remember,There was a very famous case where 5 persons raped a woman in a city in lower Egypt and they all got death penalty according to the law which is an application to Islamic law or as you call it Sharea law.
 

. (0)
Thursday December 17, 2009, 4:14 pm
Mr. Diab asked for quotes from the Koran regarding the necessity of having 4 witnesses.

Qur'an (2:282) - Establishes that a woman's testimony is worth only half that of a man's in court (there is no "he said/she said" gridlock in Islam).

Qur'an (24:4) - "And those who accuse free women then do not bring four witnesses (to adultery), flog them..."

Qur'an (24:13) - "Why did they not bring four witnesses of it? But as they have not brought witnesses they are liars before Allah."
 

Dr Kathi A (215)
Thursday December 17, 2009, 4:19 pm
NO, A DIAB, YOU made it personal .... ["Dr.Kathi. My sympathy for the family complex that led you to raise this hatred message. "]

I have stated NO HATE, except for AGAINST CHILDREN being given off in marriage as a means to make money for the family & they are then RAPED by their "husband", a grown man. THIS is DEPRAVED.
 

Dr Kathi A (215)
Thursday December 17, 2009, 4:21 pm
A Diab, Under Islamic Law, the only way to prove rape is to have FOUR MEN witness the RAPE & stand for the female. As I have stated from the Sharia Law, not my words, but the words in the Sharia Law.
 

marie C (163)
Thursday December 17, 2009, 4:26 pm
Chana I am shocked at these quotes I have never read the Koran but it is now on my christmas list Oh this is atrocious I thought sharia law was a rogue twisted part of Islam and the Koran I had NO idea they agreed with it Thank you for the information
 

Dr Kathi A (215)
Thursday December 17, 2009, 4:28 pm
A. Diab, YOU are so full of hate & I would say from how you come across, being able to RAPE at will, that you have not even read a word I have said. I am NOT attacking Islam or the Koran. I am NOT drawing a false picture of Islam. I have only stated that ANY LAW that allows a female or any other person to be treated in such a despicable manner, is EVIL. PURE EVIL.




Where are your quotes, I have asked for, that I have stated anything against Islam or the Koran?



You have none, as YOU are the only one trying to imply that as I STAND, in the RIGHT, AGAINST Sharia LAW to marry & in consequentially allow this child to be RAPED....This is NOT PEACE. How DARE you say that that is PEACE. That is perverted & HATEFUL towards females & especially the female CHILDREN. You will stand accountable for YOUR HATE of an entire gender.
 

Dr Kathi A (215)
Thursday December 17, 2009, 4:36 pm
A Diab, There is no "LAW" in the USA that says a man has the right to marry a CHILD & have sex with her because she is his wife. However, the Sharia Law, was the ISSUE here. Not do other men commit rape across the globe, we know they do. For the most part, they are, at some point, held ACCOUNTABLE for this.

Sharia Law makes the claim that is religious right to marry a child. If the man should take his lustful desires out on this CHILD, he should be sorry for doing so [I am sure, if he is CAUGHT]. When he NEVER should have been "married" to this CHILD to start with.

As you are not an educated man, you keep pointing this out, the Sharia Law does not use the words RAPE. That is the words I am using, as in REAL LIFE, that is what it is, RAPE!

If you do not understand this, get some help from someone who can comprehend it. Then have them explain it to you.

I think you do well with your English, but obviously you are not able to understand what you have read or you do NOT wish to understand what you have read?
 

. (0)
Thursday December 17, 2009, 4:41 pm
Here’s an expert on Islamic law, appearing on Iraqi television, explaining that under sharia there are very good reasons to allow grown men to marry pre-teen girls, and “stupid” infidels have no right to complain about Mohammed marrying an eight-year old, because we allow our young girls to fornicate.

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=29431_Video-_Sharia_Expert_Defends_Child_Marriage&only
 

Dr Kathi A (215)
Thursday December 17, 2009, 4:43 pm
A. Diab, WATCH the video, one of the EXPERTS in ISLAMIC culture tells it like it is.... WATCH it.


WATCH YOUR ISLAMIC EXPERT http://www.care2.com/news/member/193769926/1329442


Then tell me I am wrong for misunderstanding what this Sharia Law allows, RAPE. No other way to state it. You just "cover over it" with "religious rights" in "MARRIAGE". How DEPRAVED.
 

. (0)
Thursday December 17, 2009, 5:29 pm
Yes, and this "expert" claims there are few girls in, presumably, western countries who are virgins after the age of 10 or 12. Idiot.
 

Dr Kathi A (215)
Thursday December 17, 2009, 5:57 pm
Again, A Diab, you SHIFT RARE cases of teenagers having babies with teenagers.... DIFFERENT than Sharia Law that forces LITTLE GIRLS to MARRY GROWN MEN.

Do you know how to stay on ISSUE? RAPE is RAPE, even if under guise of a "religous right".

A Diab, still have NOT quoted me on any HATE... WAITING.... You are a vile man for coming against someone who has only stated the TRUTH about an EVIL "Sharia Law" to RAPE FEMALES.

Quote where I have stated ANY HATE against anything but this EVIL LAW....

You cannot, so you change point & try to divert attention from the TRUTH of this EVIL.
 

. (0)
Thursday December 17, 2009, 6:12 pm
It is similar to the FLDS church promoting marriages (again of much older men) to young girls. The difference is that not only is it illegal in this country, but our culture disapproves of it and prosecutes perpetrators (though not as much as it should do.) Check out www.tripleap.org and help support them to fight this issue.
 

Abdessalam Diab (145)
Friday December 18, 2009, 5:48 am
THOSE WHO WANT TO UNDERSTAND CAN READ WHAT IS WRITTEN.KATHI IS CALLING ME "AN ANGRY RAPIST" SHE CERTAINLY HAVEN"T THE RIGHT TO DO SO. THIS IS AGAINST CARE2 REGULATION.I AM SORRY SHE SPENT HER TIME SELECTING SOME STREET WORDS TO USE IN THIS THREAD. I'LL FORGET HER BECAUSE I AM A MUSLIM AND FORGIVNESS IS ONE OF THE FEATURES OF ISLAM BUT THE FACT IS:

(1) SHE ATTACKS WHAT SHE CALLED "SHARIA LAW" -WHICH IS THE ISLAMIC LAW- AS AN EVEL LAW AND I QUOT "You are a vile man for coming against someone who has only stated the TRUTH about an EVIL "Sharia Law" to RAPE FEMALES." SHE THEN DENIES SHE IS ATTAKING ISLAM !!!!! SHARIA LAW MY DEAR LADY IS A PART OF ISLAM AND NEVER ALLOWED OR ENCOURAGER ANY ONE TO MARRY A TEENAGER OR RAPE A WOMAN" DEATH PENALTY IS THE PUNISHMENT OF A RAPIST IN ISLAMIC SHARIA.
(2) THE TEXT OF KORAN YOU ARE REFERING TO IS ABSOLUTELY ON THE SIDE OF THE WOMAN.IT IS NOT ABOUT RAPED WOMEN.SHARIA LAW PROTECTS WOMEN IF THEY ARE ACCUSED OF ADULTRY . SUCH ACCUSATION IS NOT ACCEPTED AND A COURT WOULDN"T PUNISH HER UNLESS THERE ARE FOUR WITNESSES.THIS IS WHAT THE TEXT IS REFERING TO AND FOR A NOBEL REASONS.TO PROTECT WOMEN FROM RUMERS.
(3) THE PERSON WHOME YOU CALL EXPERT IN ISLAM IS ONE OF THOSE WHO MISUNDERSTAND AND MISINTERPERT ISLAM AND WE ARE AFTER THEM TO SHOW THE REAL FACE OF ISLAM.
(4)FROM THIS YOU MAY UNDERSTAND THAT I AM ON YOUR SIDE.I AM ABSOLUTELY AGAINST RAPE AND EARLY MARRIAGE BUT THESE CRIMINAL ACTS HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH ISLAMIC LAW OR AS YOU CALL IT " SHARIA LAW ". WE HAVE TO DIFFRENCITE BETWEEN RELIGIONS ,WHICH DOESN"T AGREE TO THESE CRIMINAL ACTS, AND THE HUMAN BEHAVIOUR WHICH PEOPLE FROM ALL RELIGIONS COMMIT.
 

. (0)
Friday December 18, 2009, 7:46 am
This has turned into way too much of a personal clash. If we all agree that it is wrong for children to be married, no matter the religion, and that rape is wrong, how can we come together to see that women and children are protected and not exploited or victimized? I agree with you, Abdessalam, that the way Islam is practiced by some and in some countries, is not necessarily what Mohammed taught, but how can we get it back to its roots?
 

Dr Kathi A (215)
Friday December 18, 2009, 11:13 am
This EXPERT is on Islamic TV & is considered an EXPERT by the Islamic Community, or they would not have stated that he is an EXPERT.

Appreciate that you not make any further comments to me personally.

If you do NOT write a law against the Sharia Law to marry off & subsequently allow these CHILDREN to be RAPED, you are backing it & agree with it, period. I did not say ALL people who are Muslim obey or follow this "right" by "law". You have twisted into this what you want to. That is not what I stated.

You are either part of the solution or part of the problem. If you are against early marriage & rape, then spend your efforts attacking this Sharia Law that allows it, do not attack someone who has pointed out that that is what it is.
 

Dr Kathi A (215)
Friday December 18, 2009, 11:33 am
People with or without religion commit good & bad.... However, when it is a "LAW", it then ALLOWS these EVIL acts to take place by whoever wants to do so. Under your law, A Diab, I am an infidel, do you wish to shut me up or would you prefer just to kill me? That is what your law says you should do. I am speaking against whatever part of your law that allows CHILDREN to be given in marriage, which make it alright for grown men to have sexual relations with them. This is an EVIL ALLOWANCE. The words used in the Sharia Law is not "RAPE", but "marriage" to a female child or slave, which states it is not rape because of either of these two factors. Now go, attack Sharia Law that allows this, leave me alone, A. Diab.

Until you quote me for attacking the Koran, Islamic culture or Muslims in general, you are telling a LIE against me, defamation.... Stop the lies & do not refer to me by name or reference again, period.
 

Dr Kathi A (215)
Friday December 18, 2009, 12:25 pm
As I have been warned, I will not post to this article again. As of, 3:20pm EST. Dr. Kathi.

Appreciate getting the chance to show the truth.

http://www.analyst-network.com/article.php?art_id=2873
 

. (0)
Friday December 18, 2009, 1:31 pm
This thread has gotten so far from a discussion. It feels as if it's become nothing but hysteria. Isn't is possible to discuss this rationally? Anyone?
 

Little A (33)
Friday December 18, 2009, 4:05 pm
Sharia is an attempt to undermine women and force them as laborers.
It's disgusting, but I know enough who like to join them.
 

Little A (33)
Friday December 18, 2009, 4:27 pm
Note: not all Muslims practice Shariah Law. This is the most extreme of all, conducted by the likes of Al Qaida and the Taliban. In Sudan they're making a pretty mess as well. A society where men are free to do as they please and women objects, is appealing too many.
I watched them from Pakistan going down to Nigeria in the last two year.

I only think of the Danaiids....
 

. (0)
Friday December 18, 2009, 4:35 pm
The same kind of culture exists in parts of the US. Google the FLDS - it's the American, Christian version of the oppressive, polygamous Muslim groups.
 

Little A (33)
Friday December 18, 2009, 4:51 pm
Women living under Shariah law are easily identified: Burquaas and not a spoken word. The men don't look at women other than to asssume sexual activity with.
But if I understand Abdessalam Diab correctly, we either have to dismiss Muslims as faith at all, or those operating under a non-existing version of the Islamic Law need to get their brains washed. By women preferably, as being the thugs they are for committing criminal acts...Then how is it possible that a few months ago a girl of 8 was sold to pay off her father's debt and the court in Saudi-Arabia wouldn't let her get a divorce, as filed by her mother. For several times?
 

. (0)
Friday December 18, 2009, 5:02 pm
That wasn't my understanding of what Abdessalam was saying. My understanding, and I could be wrong, was that those who claim to be living under Sharia are living under an interpretation of Islam that is not according to what Mohammed taught. Perhaps Abdessalam will come back to tell me if I have understood him correctly.
 

Lea C (20)
Friday December 18, 2009, 10:17 pm
I DITTO all who are against this...as it's immoral. When are MEN going to think with the head between their shoulders, and not the one below their waists? But...if those women are in any way unfaithful, poor things are tortured. I watched a YouTube vid about that. Such horrible goings on. And people sit and wonder why the world is in the shape it is.
 

Abdessalam Diab (145)
Saturday December 19, 2009, 5:13 am
The main article is accusing Islamic law which they call sharia law of permitting early marriage and rape.I said from the beginning that this is not true and there isn't any verse or text in Islam holy book that allows such criminal acts.I said also that Islam didn't set a minimum age for marriage because this differs from one society to another due to different reasons such as traditions and weather.I also mentioned that people violate law,any law, whether they are Jews,Christians ,Muslims .......etc. This violation is a human behaviour not FAITH related.We are human beings not angels.Those who rape women are violating not only their faith but the man made law and should be punished.The punishment in Islam for rapists is death and it is applied .NO BODY CAN APPROVE RAPE.At the same time I again confirm that Sharia law doesn't permit or encourage RAPE.Those who violate Islamic law are individuals and must be punished as individuals.People sometimes abuse FAITH what ever their faith is.It is our duty to charge them and punish them.Accusing a FAITH whatever it is of criminal acts, which are not permitted by the FAITH, only leads to giving a bad image of the FATH not the violators and creates hatred between followers of other faiths and civil society groups.We all belong to one creator what ever you or me name him.
I hope every thing is clear now and let us live together in peace and harmony.Peace be upon all.
 

Kimberly C (36)
Saturday December 19, 2009, 5:59 am
For example" KILLING in the NAME of a GOD" is a true contradiction, violating a child or anyone in the name of a GOD is.... so obviously "hypocritical" to what is said about GOD. One religion says killing "yourself" is a sin or purgitory, another religion says you can have many wives, that it is a MAN's world, yet men come from WOMEN whom "choose" to let them live. Another says if you kill yourself while killing some one else because YOU believe they are??? gets you to heaven? So on and So on!!! So many freaks upon "our" planet! All believe "their way is the way"? yet ALL of us were BORN to THIS world. I do NOT believe that THIS world doesn't matter! Then Why are WE here???? Is our purpose of being BORN, to DESTROY eachother??? In the name of GOD? any answers?
 

Mitch Offutt (47)
Saturday December 19, 2009, 7:13 am
Everybody take note of Diab and bmutiny ignore the chance to condemn Islam's radical "fringe". They are both ,supposed moderate Muslims. It speaks volumes for their Koran hatred of the Infidels. Yes it's allways been a religion of conversion by the sword. Research the history.
 

Abdessalam Diab (145)
Sunday December 20, 2009, 1:14 am
Mitch
Can you tell me how Islam was adopted by Chinese? How did Islam spread in West Africa? How did the people of what is now Indonesia and Malaysia adopted Islam? No Islamic army reached these regions at all.
 

. (0)
Sunday December 20, 2009, 7:05 am
Abdessalam, the fact that not everyone was converted to Islam by force doesn't mean that no one was converted to Islam by force.
 

Wolfweeps Pommawolf (251)
Sunday December 20, 2009, 11:45 am
You cannot currently send a star to Chana because you have done so within the last week.
 

. (0)
Sunday December 20, 2009, 12:36 pm
Wolfweeps, I hope you'll join our fight against polygamy in this country as well, where a blind eye is often turned to child marriages because the police forces are related to the perpetrators. There have been a few recent victories, but there are still many children forced into marriages with much older men and threatened with hell if they do not assent.
 

Wolfweeps Pommawolf (251)
Sunday December 20, 2009, 6:03 pm
You got it Chana...*S* Please send what ever petiton that need to be signed....
We are women...let us hear our ROAR.
WOLF HOWLING!

You cannot currently send a star to Chana because you have done so within the last week.
 

. (0)
Sunday December 20, 2009, 6:21 pm
I don't have a petition and don't know how to go about making one up, but I'd be glad to work on one - or more - with you, if you'd like. Check out http://www.tripleap.org/ first. Law enforcement in AZ, NV, and UT are especially lax. I'll also send you a reading list, if you'd like.
 

Larry S (645)
Monday December 21, 2009, 4:00 pm
There seems to be an awful lot of really screwed up ways in some other countries, it's hard for me to imagine some of the things that happen elsewhere.
 

Elderberry T (201)
Monday December 21, 2009, 4:21 pm
"the fact that not everyone was converted to Islam by force doesn't mean that no one was converted to Islam by force."

And exactly what is being done by so called Christians with their endless wars???? RAPE & MURDER.Globally. If you look at history and the crusades what has changed? Same greed and demonisation of other cultures. Then pathetic excuses and attempts at justifying Genocide!
 

CareTwo Support (520)
Monday December 21, 2009, 4:57 pm
Let's please stay on the topic of the article. There is no need for personal attacks on each other. Thanks.
 

Abdessalam Diab (145)
Tuesday December 22, 2009, 12:52 am
“So long as our relationship is defined by our differences, we will empower those who sow hatred rather than peace, those who promote conflict rather than the cooperation that can help all of our people achieve justice and prosperity,” Obama said in the speech. “And this cycle of suspicion and discord must end.”

President Obama, Cairo 5 June 2009
 

Abdessalam Diab (145)
Tuesday December 22, 2009, 1:23 am
( 1 ) TO CHANA : THE FACT THAT THERE ARE STILL,AFTER 1431 YEARS, CHRISTIANS ,JEWS AND OTHER RELIGONS FOLLOWERS LIVING IN ISLAMIC COUNTRIES MEANS THAT MUSLIMS ARE NOT FORCING ANY BODY TO ADOPT ISLAM.
( 2) THOSE WHO WANT TO READ AND THINK CAN UNDERSTAND THAT THERE IS NO LAW IN ISLAM THAT ALLOWS THE MARRIAGE OF A CHILD AND RAPING A WOMAN . IF A MUSLIM VIOLATES THIS , IT IS A VIOLATION OF LAW . ON THE CONTRARY DEATH IS THE PUNISHMENT OF RAPE IN ISLAM BUT THOSE WHO JUST WANT TO CHARGE ISLAM WITH ALL NEGATIVES AND PREFER TO DO THIS DESPITE THE FACTS ARE EXPLAINED WILL NEVER SEE THE TRUTH BECAUSE THEIR EYES,MINDS AND HEARTS ARE CLOSED. LET US PRAY THAT THEY WILL READ,THINK AND UNDERSTAND.
 

Abdessalam Diab (145)
Tuesday December 22, 2009, 5:06 am

SIX MONTH IN JAIL FOR A RAPIST. COMPARE THIS TO ISLAMIC PUNISHMENT

http://www.hindustantimes.com/Haryana-s-ex-DGP-convicted-for-molesting-teenaged-girl/H1-Article1-488946.aspx
 

. (0)
Tuesday December 22, 2009, 5:42 am
Abdessalam, your logic is faulty. If there are some Christians, Jews and persons of other religions living in some Islamic countries, all it means is that Muslims are not forcing everyone to adopt Islam, not that no one has been forced to adopt it. It is one of the myths among Muslims that no one has been converted by the sword.

I don't think anyone is arguing that rapists in the West are punished appropriately. What has been said here is that it is almost impossible to prove rape in Islam. Those are two totally different points and the first does not negate the second. And in many Muslim countries, females that we consider children are married. Even if the spouse states that he will wait till she reaches puberty, which may be as early as 11 years, I think that most people will agree that an 11 or 12 or 15 year old is not emotionally mature enough to assent as an adult to sex with an adult male,
 

Abdessalam Diab (145)
Tuesday December 22, 2009, 6:36 am
Whose logic is faulty?and how do you think Chinese,Japanese ,Indonesians ,Malaysians,Europeans,Americans,Canadians,West Africans ........etc adopted Islam?Was that also by sword?There are very prominent celebrities ,Intellectuals,Writers,Artists......etc who adopted Islam.Please open your eyes and mind and no need to deny facts.
Rape can be proved in Islamic countries the same way it is proved in the west. No woman will surrender to a rapist , she will certainly resist and even her finger nails can be an evidence.
It is clear that you are just arguing for argument.
 

Past Member (0)
Tuesday December 22, 2009, 2:44 pm
it never ceases to amaze me the amount of ways people come up with to disrespect and violate another creation.
 

Wolfweeps Pommawolf (251)
Wednesday December 23, 2009, 4:54 pm
As long as a female has a voiced, the mind and will to refuse to be sexually assaulted "against" her own body, men in any culture, country religion and belief system will find a way to rule over the women in their own ways. Women around the world have to stand hand in hand long one another in support on this issue. It is a human right to refuse to to have sex with another. It is a choice and a living right to do so for ALL women world wide. No is a two letter woed in most languages, and it is not a concept that is difficult to understand. Thos that DO NOT respect that word are the ones with the issue at hand.
It is terrible that it has to be so hard when a simple concept is refused to be heard, and accept as a human right.
Rape is an act of vioence, not a sexual act, and until the male species accpets this a truth...the violence will continue....period.
 

Past Member (0)
Thursday December 24, 2009, 1:44 pm
These are the kind of stories that make my back crawl because I am a rape victim for nine (9) years from the age of twelve (12) through the age of twenty-one (21) and the only reason why he stopped was I got married and moved away. He was so scared he thought I would speak about what he did to me that he became a Priest where he knew he was protected.

I think the law should change from RAPE to MANSLAUGHTER because once you are raped the person you were to become is gone no matter what you try to go back the way you were some how you can't find it. The trust you had is simply no longer there because he or she was someone you loved and wanted to be around.
Your sleeping habits are completely gone I would wake up to seven (7) to ten (10) times a night screaming and walking around the house trying to get away from him even if he weren't there. You develope this horrible temper trying to keep the secret because if anyone would come close you were always afraid of talking so the person would stay away from you. I lost many many good jobs because of my temper if someone would touch me as he would such as touching my arm (meaning to him I will see you tonight) I would tell that person don't touch me but not nicely always afraid I would talk but all of this I didn't realize until I got the help I needed but many many years later before I lost my second husband.
I never spoke about what he did because he told me that if I did he would kill my family starting with my mother and let me watch so I carried the fear of killing my mother.
I need help from all of you to try to change this law. If you know someone that is law profession like a Judge or Lawyer that get this big ball rolling that would be wonderful.

Thank you,

Carol H.
 

. (0)
Thursday December 24, 2009, 2:10 pm
Carol, I am so sorry that you went through that. No one should ever go through that. No man should ever have the right to take that from a child. And no legal system should ever protect a man that does.
 

Kimberly C (36)
Friday December 25, 2009, 7:28 am
It sickens me that men call this a "Man's world" even though they "plant their seed" they cannot come from the womb and survive? They "have" to have a "woman", "mother" or "person" to nurture them or they die. So how is it a "man's world"? Because MOTHER's "allow" them to live! For centuries men have taken women and mothers for "granted" and one would think they'd be a little appreciative.
 

chris b (2474)
Friday December 25, 2009, 8:57 am
If men had to give birth the population would plummet and sexual assaults would diminish or be a thing of the past!
 

Wolfweeps Pommawolf (251)
Saturday December 26, 2009, 2:10 pm
Carol H. : Kudos to YOU, for survivng to tell the world about your ordeal, and NOT letting the abuser take everything from you.

I am reposting this Carol H. & for ALL the Women in the World

I WROTE THIS MANY YEARS AGO WHEN I HAD A VERY GOOD FRIEND, WHO I HAD THOUGHT WAS A GOOD PERSON. SHE INSTEAD SHOWED A DIFFERENT FACE TO ME THAT SHE DID TO THE WORLD. PHONY PEOPLE BOTHER ME, AND I HAVE BEEN USED MORE TIMES THAN YOU CAN IMAGINE. BUT I STILL MEET WODERFUL PEOPLE. SOME OF THE KINDEST MORE GIVING WOMEN WHO GIVE A GOOD WORD, A HELPING HAND TO LIFT A SPIRIT THAT HAS BEEN BATTERED MORE TIMES THAN MOST PEOPLE CAN IMAGINE. BUT STILL THEY LEARN TO TRUST BETTER PEOPLE THROUGH EXPERIENCE AND TRIAL AND ERROR. AND WHEN YOU GET US TOGETHER....LOOK OUT!! (SMILE)

"A WOMAN'S HEART"

A woman's heart can be the strongest
In the most difficult of times
Yet a woman's heart can still be fragile
When all hope appears to abandon us.
Then out of the darkness sparks a light
Unbelievable love abounds from strangers
Who at one time have felt the same
Deep sense of loss and shame.
We have wandered the same roads of loneliness
Shed the same tears under different burdens
Yet as women we come together to unite
To open our arms of love and comfort.
We are not weak in any sense of the word
We offer a willing heart to listen and share
Never assume nor make judgements
Only understanding and unconditional love.
We women come from all walks of life
Yet as one entity we are the strongest
Each hand holding the next in strength
Come take my hand my dear sisters
Always know that you are not alone
Together as one we give you love
Never again shall you ever walk alone.

POMMAWOLF July 1997

 

. (0)
Saturday December 26, 2009, 2:20 pm
That's nice, Wolfweeps. The older I get, the more I appreciate the strength in women. I first became aware of that strength and depth in women when living in the Middle East and coming to know women who had grown up in third world countries, where they were not treated as equals. I applaud all women everywhere who overcome abuse, oppression and virtual servitude. May your light shine!
 

bob m (32)
Friday November 19, 2010, 10:17 am


Amazing; a little bit of light on this book of lies and it's like turning a light on in a cupboard full of rats.
Theyscurry around in panic trying to tie this with that or deny or play dumb.
don't forget the little boys provided in paradise and here to now.
special bargain..powder and fragrant oils ....nice. what's that stink?
 

(0)
Tuesday December 28, 2010, 10:58 am
Sharia law is an abomination, also a relic that should be confined to the basement of infamy in world history, along with slavery, racial discrimination, and all other blights on the face of man and woman. In this day and age, it is disgraceful that sharia law still exists. The one true God of love,mercy, and equality, surely would not approve of the use of “man invented moral rules,” used by misogynist minded men to inflate their weak egos! Upon the earth God made man and woman to co-rule the world.

Sharia law is an abomination, also a relic that should be confined to the basement of infamy in world history, along with slavery, racial discrimination, and all other blights on the face of man and woman. In this day and age, it is disgraceful that sharia law still exists. The one true God of love,mercy, and equality, surely would not approve of the use of “man invented moral rules,” used by misogynist minded men to inflate their weak egos!

Upon the earth God made man and woman to co-rule the world. Unfortunately, man has misused and misapplied the rule of law regardless of whether they are political, or religious. The victims have often been the poor uneducated masses, the disabled, and saddest of all the very women chosen by God to co-rule with men upon the earth. Using a misogynistic approach disguised as religious rules, men have made a mockery of Gods laws by using such self serving, man made regulations as sharia law!

With this said, sharia law has nothing to do with Gods laws, but rather with the impotent self-esteem of the weak willed men whom continue to enforce the evil disguised as good found in the abomination called sharia law. Especially when it is used almost exclusively, against the most beautiful, wonderful, and weakest of Gods creation!
 

(0)
Tuesday December 28, 2010, 11:13 am
Sorry, but on the first post my word processor went wacky on me!

Sharia law is an abomination, also a relic that should be confined to the basement of infamy in world history, along with slavery, racial discrimination, and all other blights on the face of man and woman. In this day and age, it is disgraceful that sharia law still exists. The one true God of love,mercy, and equality, surely would not approve of the use of “man invented moral rules,” used by misogynist minded men to inflate their weak egos!

Upon the earth God made man and woman to co-rule the world. Unfortunately, man has misused and misapplied the rule of law regardless of whether they are political, or religious. The victims have often been the poor uneducated masses, the disabled, and saddest of all the very women chosen by God to co-rule with men upon the earth. Using a misogynistic approach disguised as religious rules, men have made a mockery of Gods laws by using such self serving, man made regulations as sharia law!

With this said, sharia law has nothing to do with Gods laws, but rather with the impotent self-esteem of the weak willed men whom continue to enforce the evil disguised as good found in the abomination called sharia law. Especially when it is used almost exclusively, against the most beautiful, wonderful, and weakest of Gods creation!


 
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