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Israel's Intentional Unfriendly Friendly Fire


World  (tags: Hannibal, Declaration, situation, risk, endanger, jeopardize, abduction, kidnapping, capture, liquidation, own, soldier, Israel, unethical, immoral, illegal, fanatics, suicide, bomber, captive, morale, desertion, abuse, murder, slavery, death, senten )

Sam
- 1684 days ago - en.wikipedia.org
Does the IDF have a policy of endangering, even killing its own soldiers? The answer may surprise you! Was the Hannibal Declaration invoked during Operation Protective Edge in the Gaza Strip? Did Israel murder its own soldier, Hadar Goldin?



   

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Comments

Sam H (410)
Saturday August 9, 2014, 12:14 am
Even as the “abduction” (capture, really) was being reported, Israel declared him dead. It then revised his status to missing-in-action. And then it revised it again to dead. The most likely explanation is that a Hannibal Situation was declared. Initially, Israel was certain the Hannibal operation was executed successfully, but then it backtracked. But finally, to the relief of Netanyahu, Goldin was declared dead--murdered. The “decision” was later communicated to the family.

Do you think an independent investigation is in order in this case?
 

Sam H (410)
Saturday August 9, 2014, 12:25 am
Our friend Rodney P. first brought the story to our attention. Other friends also suspected that a Hannibal situation may have been declared after Goldin was captured.

http://www.care2.com/news/member/876752659/3794090
 

fly bird (26)
Saturday August 9, 2014, 1:38 am
Take action: Protests around the world respond to assault on Palestine http://samidoun.ca/2014/07/take-action-protests-around-the-world-respond-to-assault-on-palestine/
 

Evelyn B (63)
Saturday August 9, 2014, 1:47 am
" The circumstances surrounding his death remained cloudy. A military spokeswoman declined to say whether Lieutenant Goldin had been killed along with two comrades by a suicide bomb one of the militants exploded, or later by Israel’s assault on the area to hunt for him; she also refused to answer whether his remains had been recovered.

Just what those circumstances were began to filter out early this week, and they attest to deep contradictions in the Israeli military—and in Israeli culture at large."

See also the Haaretz article on this: Haaretz: Dozens of Innocents Killed in IDF's 'Hannibal' Protocol, and a linked article in Haaretz about this protocol, or directive, or procedure “Hannibal procedure, - live link in text in first comment
 

Maria Teresa Schollhorn (42)
Saturday August 9, 2014, 2:52 am
Noted. Interesting article.
Thank you Sam.
 

Rose Becke (141)
Saturday August 9, 2014, 3:29 am
I agree with Ros,thanks Sam and Rodney
 

Lona G (66)
Saturday August 9, 2014, 5:09 am
This Hannibal Protocol and the death of Goldin are very dark and murky and there"s little else but speculation available about what happened. I hope one day the truth will come out, but we better not hold our breath waiting for that. At this point in time I'm more concerned with the fighting having resumed and the 10-year old boy in Gaza who was the first to die after bombing resumed.
First stop the fighting and the massacre, try for peace and an end to the blockade, then there will be time enough to worry about details (as if any death ever could be called a "detail").
 

Sandrea S (278)
Saturday August 9, 2014, 5:20 am
N & T
 

Anteater Ants (122)
Saturday August 9, 2014, 6:05 am
noted, thank you
 

Sheryl G (359)
Saturday August 9, 2014, 8:10 am
I don't suppose we'll ever know, or at least not know in the foreseeable future what actually took place with this particular soldier. Anything is possible in war. I think both sides are doing the best it can to poke the other in face and all the while more children and innocent people die.

I posted a story to that very fact, it concerned the USA, but these things apply to all Nations at varying degree in time of war. For anyone interested in viewing, in particular if you are an American I highly recommend you in fact know what is going on in your own Country.
Wars First Casualty The Truth
 

Kathleen M (210)
Saturday August 9, 2014, 9:34 am
Noted. Thank you, Sam. It seems there's no end to vicious, barbarian actions in any war. Not surprized, but very sad & disgusted.
 

Sam H (410)
Saturday August 9, 2014, 10:04 am
Thanks Dandelion! That was an interesting interview. There’s no question that governments lie. But if we look at how this particular policy is being implemented, it’s hard not conclude that they have institutionalized suicide bombing and made it not only an option, but a requirement under these circumstances.

“Before the Gaza War in 2009, Lt. Col. Shuki Ribak, the commander of the Golani Brigade's 51st battalion instructed his soldiers to avoid kidnapping at any cost and even made clear that he expected his soldiers to commit suicide rather than being abducted:

“[N]o soldier in Battalion 51 will be kidnapped at any price. At any price. Under any condition. Even if it means that he blows himself with his own grenade together with those trying to capture him. Also even if it means that now his unit has to fire a barrage at the car that they are trying to take him away in.”
 

Panchali Yapa (26)
Saturday August 9, 2014, 10:17 am
Thank you
 

JL A (281)
Saturday August 9, 2014, 10:25 am
Like Donne says, every death diminishes me...because no man is an island and thus we all are affected whenever anyone is killed like this, without regard to by who. Stopping the killing and other harms that may lead to death (insufficient water, medical care, etc.).
 

Sam H (410)
Saturday August 9, 2014, 10:32 am
Of course, one of my glaring omissions here was giving Evelyn credit for having reported on this 5 days ago. Goldin was not the only one to lose his life as a result of this policy. Many more innocent Palestinians did.

I don’t know if that should read “giving” or “not giving.” But I hope that gets the point across.

Others whom I didn’t give credit to include: Parsifal and Eleonora whose contributions about the subject I actually saw before posting this one.
 

Parsifal S (99)
Saturday August 9, 2014, 12:19 pm
of course Sam, a soldier, first can not be abducted, kidnapping applies to civilians, secondly, the Hannibal Doctrine is carried out by all means not to give i.e. Hamas the opportunity to negotiate for something i.e. peace

Maybe worth reading and understanding is the following article which would draw a very eery light on the so called state of Israel

Why Aren't ISIS and Al-Qaeda Attacking Israel?
 

Carrie B (306)
Saturday August 9, 2014, 1:06 pm
The more I learn ~ the less I understand, and the more sadness and anger I feel.
 

(0)
Saturday August 9, 2014, 1:59 pm
N & S. Thanks Sam
 

Fiona Ogilvie (562)
Saturday August 9, 2014, 1:59 pm
I agree 1000% with Carrie....the more I learn, etc.
 

Colleen L (3)
Saturday August 9, 2014, 3:01 pm
I too agree with Carrie and J L comments. I want all of these killing to stop. Thanks Sam
 

Kate K (215)
Saturday August 9, 2014, 3:10 pm
Friendly fire-want a strange term. I have read of Americans being killed by Friendly fire many times.Israel has been doing alert of crappy things lately but I think there are sites where people just like to pick on them. I do not support much of what they do and am in support of the Palestinians getting the right they deserve but this has been a long war and Israel is not the only country to have friendly fire. If it happened there I condemn it just as I would here and when it happens among Americans I hear no outcry.
 

Lois Jordan (63)
Saturday August 9, 2014, 4:20 pm
Noted. Thanks for posting, Sam.
 

Sam H (410)
Saturday August 9, 2014, 4:59 pm
Hi Kate,

Don’t you think this is more than just friendly fire?

If you look at how this particular policy is being implemented, is it hard not to conclude that they have institutionalized suicide bombing by making it not only an option, but a requirement?

What do you think of this?

“Before the Gaza War in 2009, Lt. Col. Shuki Ribak, the commander of the Golani Brigade's 51st battalion instructed his soldiers to avoid kidnapping at any cost and even made clear that he expected his soldiers to commit suicide rather than being abducted:

“[N]o soldier in Battalion 51 will be kidnapped at any price. At any price. Under any condition. Even if it means that he blows himself with his own grenade together with those trying to capture him. Also even if it means that now his unit has to fire a barrage at the car that they are trying to take him away in.”

And, BTW, this policy didn’t just happen overnight. And it didn’t get instituted in July of 2014. It has been around for some time.

They claim that the name they gave this “policy” was random. You may accept that, but I find it difficult to do so, knowing what I know about Hannibal who committed suicide after being betrayed by the Romans. You may see honor and courage in ordering a soldier to commit suicide, I see barbarism. If there is honor in such a practice it is when the leader commits suicide for having failed, like Hannibal did, not in ordering an underling to commit suicide. Forget about the enemy; just think about the mothers, brothers, sisters, fathers of these soldiers. This the 21st century for G-d’s sake!

And when you say they’ve been doing “crappy things lately,” I’m having a little trouble understanding what you mean by “lately.”

Was incorporating a terrorist organization into the IDF acceptable to you? Does the term “lately” go back in time to cover such practices as well?

Do you know of any other army in the world that orders its soldiers to commit suicide under similar circumstances?

But you’re right. There nothing friendly about friendly fire. I thought I tried to convey that in the very first thing I said here. Thanks for your comment!
 

Angelika R (143)
Sunday August 10, 2014, 4:17 am
Yet one more testimony of "the most moral army in the world" of "the only democracy in the ME".-
The suicidal aspect of that protocol, which you highlight in your comments and quotes, Sam, is of course a barbaric perversion, the other aspect -the shoot to kill order to kill the captors and the captured- should be considered instigation to murder and just as barbaric.
With regard to your comment "Forget about the enemy; just think about the mothers, brothers, sisters, fathers of these soldiers" this is what Richard Silverstein notes in his article (Israeli Hannibal Directive: “A Breach of Democracy and Morality”)
“There is an unspoken agreement among the Israeli government, Israeli citizens, and even the surviving family of victims, that IDF victims under Hannibal will be treated as war heroes in return for concealing the true circumstances of their death. This conspiracy of silence relieves Israeli citizens of having to think about the moral issues of killing one of their own soldiers in an attempt to relieve society of the burden of negotiating with the enemy over their return. It is an unpardonable breach of democracy and morality.”
 

Parsifal S (99)
Sunday August 10, 2014, 6:28 am

a little off topic, but might help the issue ?

UN’s Ban Ki-moon is a partner in Israel’s crimes. This open letter signed by 129 organizations and distinguished individuals was sent to UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon on 5 August...
 

Past Member (0)
Sunday August 10, 2014, 8:12 am
Noted...thank you....
 

Eleonora Oldani (37)
Sunday August 10, 2014, 3:57 pm
To Lona - good to read you again! You say "First stop the fighting and the massacre, try for peace and an end to the blockade, ..."

I recomment you listen to the link Parsifal posted in another thread: http://newday.blogs.cnn.com/2014/08/08/official-israel-doesnt-commit-war-crimes/

It's an interview with Mark Regev to which I put in the following comment:

"Thanks for this link Parsifal - I love to listen to Mark Regev; he beats Goebbels by far and makes the “Reichspropagandaminister” pale in comparison!!

I didn't count how many times he emphasized that HHHHamas (I love his pronunciation - LOL) refused to extend the ceasefire.

What he conveniently forgot to mention is the fact that an acceptance of an extension of the ceasefire would have meant also to disarm UNCONDITIONALLY ... naturally only HHHHamas!

He also forgot to mention that Israel was not even willing to begin to talk about easing the total blockade on Gaza which is in place since 8 years.

But what are such little details between friends, eh?!

He rose to absolute top-form though when he said that Israel will not negotiate under fire. Sorry??? Did I miss again something? Normally if one negotiates a CEASEFIRE - which in my understanding is that two parties negotiate the terms and conditions under which they cease fire - ... it does happen as long as the firing goes on! If not, then what's there to negotiate?! "

Lona, in my opinion these statements by Regev are appaling to say the least. But worse yet - the fact that Israel refused profoundly to even accept that the grievances of the occupied Palestinians, but especially those suffering in this big concentration camp called Gaza, be mentioned or addressed ... gets sweeped under the rug and this coward of a journalist accepts it against better knowledge.
 

Parsifal S (99)
 

fly bird (26)
Monday August 11, 2014, 10:21 am
Israel does not just regard the murder of Palestinian children and families as 'collateral damage'. It, also, uses it's own soldiers to commit war crimes, and will go so far as killing it's own do prevent capture of IDF soldiers, which I believe, is a crime and a breach of the Laws of War.
 

Angelika R (143)
Wednesday August 13, 2014, 9:53 am
I'm briefly returning to this thread with an information about Goldin I just read which is totally new to me and looks like another nasty propaganda twist, blaming his death on Hamas. I think it also further explains the "conclusion" and "decision" the IDF had made about his death.That Haaretz report I posted on Eleonora's thread did say " Goldin will be laid to rest at 5:30..." - I just wonder WHAT they laid to rest at his funeral.

From http://www.timesofisrael.com/liberman-calls-for-spurning-of-un-human-rights-probe/ -:
"Liberman also declared that Israel would not agree to any long-term ceasefire deal in which the remains of slain soldiers Oron Shaul and Hadar Goldin aren’t returned by Hamas.

“If the bodies aren’t returned, the bodies of [Al-Qassam Brigades leader] Mohammed Deif and [Prime Minister in the Gaza Strip] Ismail Haniyeh and all the Hamas leadership will be returned to them,” he said in a thinly veiled threat."


 

Bruce C D (89)
Saturday August 16, 2014, 5:59 pm
As I noted on Evelyn's submission, this, to me, defines a war crime. There is no justification for the indiscriminate shelling that killed some 130 civilians in an attempt to prevent merely the capture (not killing) of one IDF soldier. But even if it was to prevent the killing of one soldier, it doesn't justify the indiscriminate killing of scores of civilians. Let me add that it seems highly doubtful that Hamas killed this soldier when the intent appears to clearly be to capture the soldier for use as a bargaining chip--most likely to exchange him for imprisoned Palestinians, as had been done in the past. It is much more probable he was killed by the heavy shelling conducted at the time by his own side.
 
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