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If Hamas Is Not Above the Law, Why Should Israel Be?

World  (tags: Israel, Palestinians, Hamas, ICC, International, Criminal, Court, Hague )

- 1637 days ago -
Hamas has signed a proposal for the Palestinians to apply to join the International Criminal Court.


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Sam H (410)
Saturday August 23, 2014, 1:55 pm
Joining the ICC would expose Palestinian factions to possible prosecution.

Sam H (410)
Saturday August 23, 2014, 2:11 pm
Now that the terrorist organization is ready to submit to the rule of law, I wonder what the only democracy in the Middle East would do!

Evelyn B (63)
Saturday August 23, 2014, 3:33 pm
Hide behind the US?! Get Congress (aka AIPAC's lobby) to undermine any investigator, refuse findings, presurise investigators to withdraw/ tone down text of reports &/or write covering letter to undermine the findings ....
We've seen it before, it worked, so why not again?

Thanks for posting, Sam

Rose B (141)
Saturday August 23, 2014, 5:27 pm
No county should be above the law

Bruce C D (89)
Sunday August 24, 2014, 2:10 am
Agreed, Rose. No person, no group, no corporation, and no country should be above the law. Israel has been in defiance of International Law and the Geneva Conventions for decades, and acts with impunity while the U.S. sends billions in aid and gives it a free pass in the U.N.

Of course, Palestine should have officially been recognized as a nation long ago.

Angelika R (143)
Sunday August 24, 2014, 8:15 am
Thx Sam, yes,I caught the news just when going to bed last night. Let's hope it is true this time and they have actually signed and not just yet another announcement about their willingness or pledge to sign like we've heard already several times in recent weeks.
This would be an important step forward, but still more is required as ALL factions need to sign on. Chances look slim that IJ will do so.. and even if they sign on, it is not clear that Abbas himself will sign, although the likelihood is great, but so is the pressure on him to not sign. It would certainly change his relations with Israel from tense to openly hostile.
And finally, the ICC prosecuter herself has to accept to take up the case which is also unclear so far.
The article for which I gave the link earlier in one of your other threads described the pressure on the ICC pretty well.
So we can just hope for the best and the sooner the ICC gets involved the better! With Israel determined to continue the slaughter through September, there's no sense in further waiting, how much worse can things get?
As for Israel, does anyone seriously expect them so sign the statute once again after their withdrawel from it in 2002?

Kathleen Mireault (211)
Sunday August 24, 2014, 9:04 am
Noted. Thanks for posting, Sam. Agree with Bruce that Palestine should have been officially recognized as a nation year

Sam H (410)
Sunday August 24, 2014, 9:06 am
There was some news somewhere that in return for the complete lift of the siege, Abbas may shelf the whole idea.

But this whole thing is self-defeating if you're going to wait for the criminal to agree to be prosecuted.

Alexandra G (250)
Sunday August 24, 2014, 9:12 am
noted, thank you Sam

Kathleen Mireault (211)
Sunday August 24, 2014, 9:16 am
My full comment didn't materialize, so will try again. Palestine should have been officially recognized as a nation tears ago. Would like to see AIPAC officially UNrecognized as an entity with any right to meddle in ME affairs whatsover! Fat chance, but one can hope.

Margaret Goodman (243)
Sunday August 24, 2014, 9:40 am
My recollection is that the United States has not agreed to subject itself to ICC decisions and that it has pressured other countries to not give up any Americans to the ICC.

Angelika R (143)
Sunday August 24, 2014, 9:46 am
Kathleen, your typo fits just the same.. and if and how much AIPAC stops "meddling" in *US* POLICY depends largely on American citizens as well and how clearly they express themselves to their elected representatives. "Hoping" surely won't do the job.

Angelika R (143)
Sunday August 24, 2014, 12:25 pm
Have you seen this? I previously saw other articles suggesting that, incl. one referring to the Oren article in Haaretz.
In the biggest blow to Israeli propaganda, which claimed that Hamas broke the ceasefire, former Israeli Attorney General Michael Ben Yair has said that "it was Israel who staged the alleged Hamas breach of the ceasefire in order to create the conditions for assassinating Muhammad Al-Daif, Commander-in-Chief of Hamas's military wing, Al-Qassam Brigades."

Esther S (45)
Sunday August 24, 2014, 12:28 pm
How do we know for sure that the International Criminal Court would be fair and honest in it's decisions?

fly bird (26)
Sunday August 24, 2014, 12:53 pm
Thank you for the post, Sam. Have you seen this related article?
Consent and advise

Prior to the Gaza operation, IDF officers were receiving legal advice that allowed for large numbers of civilian casualties and the targeting of government buildings. Some legal experts, among them the former head of the army's international law division, maintain that the IDF harnessed the law in the service of the war effort.

" "This was a very large group of people who at that moment were ostensibly civilians and the next day would become legitimate military targets," says an operational source."

Roger G (148)
Sunday August 24, 2014, 1:16 pm
noted, thanks

Past Member (0)
Sunday August 24, 2014, 1:17 pm
Everyone should be held accountable for their actions.

Sam H (410)
Sunday August 24, 2014, 2:05 pm
That's interesting, Angelika. I'm not sure what that means internally foe Netanyahu. AppaLying doesn't

Sam H (410)
Sunday August 24, 2014, 2:07 pm
This thing posted before I was done.

I was trying to say, "Apparently, lying is not a crime in Israel."

Sam H (410)
Sunday August 24, 2014, 2:10 pm

Since when does a criminal get to decide whether he should appear before a judge or not?

Angelika R (143)
Sunday August 24, 2014, 2:17 pm
I thought it is quite interesting, yes. Not sure either what and if it means anything internally, but a tweet is always good to spread and expose things externally! I've been following this nicely written Tikun olam blog and is where I first read about those hints.

Mary Donnelly (47)
Monday August 25, 2014, 12:30 am
Great post--thanks.

Eleonora Oldani (37)
Monday August 25, 2014, 12:31 am

Thanks Sam and Angelika for the news and links - interesting as always.

As for Esther's comment - I've sent you a Star ... as you've internalized the official Hasbara lines to the full; a fact which deserves appreciation IMO.

A Evelyn so clearly formulated in her comment above, the tactics of Israel are known and we all know that it is always the Palestinians who are accused of "missing a chance" whereas the whole world knows that this is false. A lie repeated often enough ... doesn't turn into truth, Esther, even if Mr. Goebbels said something to the contrary.

IF Israel is clean and
IF Israel has nothing to fear and
IF Israel has not committed any war crimes or crimes against humanity ...

then there's no reason whatsoever to refuse to go to the IC or to allow an impartial - IMPARTIAL - committee. Not the ones sanctioned (and chosen) by Israel like in the past. A real and proper investigation. I do vividly remember the Jenin Investigation Committee in April 2002 on which a dear friend of ours was chosen to be ... and how it took the Israel Lobby less than 3 weeks to kill that Committee ... never to be heard of again!

And mind you, Esther, even IF the report and/or the IC were impartial and true to the facts on the ground the whole force of the Zionist lobby will land on each and every country, institution and what-have-you group. We've been through this exercise so many times in the past - we know it by heart!

I just have only simple question, Esther: The "terrorist" group Hamas has called for, agreed to and is committed to accept the findings of an investigation and/or the IC - mind you, Hamas is declared the "terrorist"! Now why would Israel - being the "victim" and acting only and only in self-defense, not to at least the same?! Any GOOD reason for such inexplicable behaviour??


Eleonora Oldani (37)
Monday August 25, 2014, 12:33 am
A bit off topic but still related - An hour ago I got this email from IJAN which I'd like to share with you.

Dr. Hajo Meyer - the first signatory under the solidarity letter of Holocaust survivors - passed away Friday. May he rest in peace and his memory be honoured by everybody.


Honoring Dr. Hajo Meyer

This past Friday August 22, 2014, Dr. Hayo Meyer, proud member of IJAN and long time anti-Zionist activist passed away. Hajo was unwavering in his conviction and passion that Never Again meant Never Again for Anyone and in his outrage that his experience in Auschwitz is misused by Israel and Zionism to justify the colonization and ethnic cleansing of Palestine.

Dr. Meyer was born in 1924 in Bielefeld, Germany. When he was barred from attending school there after November 1938, he fled to the Netherlands, alone. In I944, after a year in the underground, he was caught and subsequently survived 10 months at Auschwitz. Dr. Meyer dedicated himself to countering the Zionist manipulation of the Nazi genocide to justify the colonization of Palestine. He played a leading role on the Never Again for Anyone tour of Europe in 2010, and of the United States in 2011.

We will miss Hajo. His message will continue and grow stronger as he is joined by survivors of the Nazi genocide, the descendants of its victims and survivors and all people committed to justice. Our hearts go out to those who loved him.

The morning of his death, the following letter from survivors of the Nazi genocide and the descendants of survivors and victims, in response Elie Wiesel's attempt to justify the attacks on Gaza, was published as in the NY Times. Hajo was the first to sign on.

Since being published, this ad has generated media attention, messages of solidarity, as well as Zionist backlash. Ha’aretz republished the letter and the reposting has generated over 30,000 “likes” on the Ha’aretz Facebook page.

Please stand with the signers of this letter and against Zionist manipulation of the Nazi genocide, please sign this letter of support -

Also read

Margaret Goodman (243)
Monday August 25, 2014, 2:11 am
Thank you Jesse for the advise and consent article.

The ILD is becoming too much like what the United States Justice Department was during the George W Bush administration.

Sam H (410)
Monday August 25, 2014, 2:30 am
Thanks Eleonora!

Unlike the weasel’s contrived letter, this one is a powerful, honest and natural one that comes from the heart and “tells it like it is.”

It deserves to be read and signed!

And this is how people are responding to it:

Sam H (410)
Monday August 25, 2014, 3:14 am
It seems I gave the wrong link to the letter. I’ll try again.

Past Member (0)
Monday August 25, 2014, 3:21 am
Sam- by the weasel, I'm guessing you are referring to Elie Wiesel, the holocaust survivor who dedicated his life to tracking down escaped Nazis and bringing them to justice? His book, Night, is still required reading in high school Comm Arts classes as a lesson in human rights and the power of the human spirit. (my son read it last year). Yes I saw the ad, and was shocked and appalled by Mr. Weisel''s participation. ( Before I'm attacked personally, I would like to say that I've published many articles here on C2NN supporting Palestinian rights.) It seems one of the tragic failings of the human race is the way in which those who are persecuted can turn around and persecute others, often in an ironic defense of their own rights. Sad and tragic it is. But the childish name-calling, and the complete lack of respect for a human being who has survived horrors we can't even imagine, illustrates the problem with the internet discussions of complex situations. Too often, the discussion devolves to this trite level. That sort of simplistic thinking will never lead to any lasting peace or respect for the future of the Palestinian people.

Angelika R (143)
Monday August 25, 2014, 3:54 am
Thanks Eleonora for posting this here! I had the same email last night and was glad for the opportunity to send a support message and sign, something we were not afforded with their first original alert posted by Evelyn 2 weeks ago, as that called for signatures only from holocaust survivors or their descendents.

Sam H (410)
Monday August 25, 2014, 4:02 am
Totally Agree, Linda. It was a cheap shot. I didn't mean to detract from what he went through, just underline how his name is being used to support the crimes of of the state. If Mr. Wiesel's position becomes indistinguishable from that of Netanyahu, then I have a problem with that. If the survivors of the Holocaust become a supporter of crimes against humanity, what are we to do? Do we honor the past and dishonor the present? There is a marked a difference between the integrity of Mr. Wiesel and that of Dr. Meyer. I didn't mean to detract from their past suffering, just shed a light on how one chose to include all humanity in the Never-Again struggle, while the other had no compunction about supporting a state being accused of committing crimes against humanity.

Eleonora Oldani (37)
Monday August 25, 2014, 4:43 am

Sam -that's what I have come to like and appreciate in you! You have no problem admitting that you took a cheap shot. I can imagine that it was difficult to withstand the temptation and play with the letters ...

'I didn't mean to detract from their past suffering, just shed a light on how one chose to include all humanity in the Never-Again struggle, while the other had no compunction about supporting a state being accused of committing crimes against humanity."

Perfect formulation - I'll sign to that!


Maria Teresa S (42)
Monday August 25, 2014, 6:25 am
Noted. No country should be above the law.
Letter of support signed.
Thank you Sam for posting.

Angelika R (143)
Monday August 25, 2014, 7:08 am
I think I want to step in here once more. Firstly, our respected friend Linda also said how appalled and shocked she was at that ad and letter(not sure about "participation" since the letter is written in first-person) and I don't think she was attributing her statements like "childish name-calling,complete lack of respect for a human being who has survived horrors we can't even imagine, trite level or simplistic thinking" to Sam directly.

I think Sam's ingenius wordplay was fit and rather mild in comparison to the actual cheap shot Mr Wiesel landed by supporting Israel's propaganda (as if the US needed any more of that) and distorting the facts.
His single voice stands against not only those 327+ survivors and their supporters of the response letter, but the many thousands opposing voices across the world.
Someone "to promote blatant falsehoods used to justify the unjustifiable: Israel’s wholesale effort to destroy Gaza and the murder of nearly 2,000 Palestinians"(now well over 2000), as these brave people correctly wrote, could very well be called a weasel IMO.
To make it clear, of course I too join that clarification "'I didn't mean to detract from their past suffering,..".


Past Member (0)
Monday August 25, 2014, 9:23 am
I think I'm trying to understand how people with the Jewish people's history could become the perpetrators of genocide. I'm sure it's rooted in their fears about survival after what happened during the Holocaust. The reaction to such traumatic experience can take many forms,sometimes creating more understanding and compassion for others expressed by Jewish Voices for Peace, for example. And sometimes the fear takes precedence, and you end up with Zionists who want to maintain "Israel as a Jewish state" at all costs. Chris hedges just published an article on this subject on Truthdig: How the Brutalized Become Brutal"

The genocide of the Palestinians needs to end now, the blockade must be lifted to allow them to begin to rebuild their country and create a future worth having. The U.S. could end it now by withdrawing the unquestioning support for everything the govt. of Israel does. But I still wonder why the Israeli people feel the way they do when so many of them support their government's actions in Gaza. I remember when, immediately after 9/11, many here in the U.S. supported racial profiling of anyone who looked like they could be Muslim... So much evil in the world begins with our fears. Even when our fears appear to be justified, they can lead to so much worse evil.

Esther S (45)
Monday August 25, 2014, 10:37 am
Sam H. - First of all, in the U.S. a person is not automatically to be considered to be guilty until he or she has been tried and convicted, but this International Court is not run the same way. Also you have automatically called Israel a criminal and so it is not likely that Israel would get a fair trial with that kind of attitude. In addition, I have seen so much that has shown that so many countries back the Muslims in general because they control so much of the oil in the world etc. Israel is just a small country with a very small minority of people in the world and no oil.

Sam H (410)
Monday August 25, 2014, 10:49 am
That's exactly my point, Esther. It's because Israel is such a tiny country that it should rely on international law for its protection not on guns. You know how the saying goes: those who live by the gun, die by the gun. That's not the future I want for my dear Israeli friends and also for those who are not friends.

Esther S (45)
Monday August 25, 2014, 11:30 am
Sam H. unfortunately Israel can't count on International law to protect it. Israel has been attacked so many times from the very beginning that the current Israel was first created and it never could get any protection from anyone but itself. I am referring to actual war attacks against Israel as well as terrorist attacks against Israel. If Israel did not defend itself, it would not exist at all.

Angelika R (143)
Monday August 25, 2014, 2:24 pm
Here's a new initiative by the National Lawyers Guild (NLG), Center for Constitutional Rights, International Association of Democratic Lawyers, Arab Lawyers Union, and American Association of Jurists (Asociacion Americana de Juristas) with a 22 Aug. letter to the ICC prosecutor requesting to initiate her own investigation (not that I believe she will, yet it is good to see such steps) : Letter to ICC Prosecutor

Eleonora Oldani (37)
Monday August 25, 2014, 2:31 pm

Thanks Angelika for the info - unfortunately I can't open the link; would have loved to read it.

anyway and as you say - she probably will not dare to take action without the blessings of the US and IL and, hence, it'll go nowhere. But it is important that not only we speak out but people of some "public weight" do so too.

Angelika R (143)
Monday August 25, 2014, 4:06 pm
Sorry for you Eleonora, that's a 6-page pdf I couldn't possibly c&p here. Perhaps check the news on the NLG website and read about it there - > or perhaps you succeed opening via their link.

Sam H (410)
Monday August 25, 2014, 5:40 pm
August 22, 2014

The Right Honorable Ms. Fatou Bensouda
Prosecutor of the International Criminal Court
International Criminal Court
Post Office Box 19519
2500 CM, The Hague
The Netherlands

Re: Request for the initiation of an investigation into crimes committed and ongoing during and
immediately before Israel’s Operation Protective Edge in Gaza pursuant to Article 15 of the
Rome Statute, on the basis of information on crimes within the jurisdiction of the International
Criminal Court

Dear Madam Prosecutor:

I write on behalf of the National Lawyers Guild, the first racially integrated United States bar
association formed in 1937 to advocate for the protection of constitutional, human, and civil
rights, and the endorsing organizations indicated below.

In light of the extreme gravity of the situation in the occupied Gaza Strip, in particular the large
number of civilian casualties and large scale destruction of civilian property, including schools,
mosques and hospitals, and the ongoing incitement to genocide perpetrated by Israeli political
figures and leaders, the National Lawyers Guild and endorsing organizations strongly urge the
Office of the Prosecutor to immediately use its power under Article 15 of the Rome Statute to
initiate a preliminary investigation on “the basis of information on crimes within the jurisdiction
of the Court” (article 15(1)).

A number of UN agencies and non-governmental organizations have conducted preliminary
investigations and prepared reports that strongly suggest that crimes within the jurisdiction of the
International Criminal Court (ICC) have been and are being committed. Credible information
from “states, organs of the United Nations, intergovernmental or non-governmental
organizations [and] other reliable sources,” including eyewitness accounts (article 15(2)), is
readily and widely available. The “seriousness of the information” available is beyond doubt,
which is why both UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon and UN High Commissioner for Human
Rights Navi Pillay have called for accountability and justice. High Commissioner Pillay
specifically stated that there is “increasing evidence of war crimes” being committed in Gaza.

Israel’s clearly disproportionate use of force against the 1.8 million residents of Gaza appears to
have little to do with any claim of security, but seems to be calculated to exact revenge against
Palestinian civilians. Even before Israel’s extensive aerial bombardment of Gaza began, Israeli
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu alluded to Israel’s aim. On July 1, 2014, at the televised
funeral of the three slain settlers, Netanyahu stoked the emotions of the mourners by quoting
from a Hebrew poem: “vengeance for the blood of a small child, Satan has not yet created” and calling for God to “avenge their blood.” He later tweeted that same line from the poem. The next day, Palestinian teen Mohammad Abu Khdeir was set on fire and murdered by extremist settlers, and acts of violence and incitement against Palestinians by Israeli settlers, police and occupation forces increased dramatically.

Sam H (410)
Monday August 25, 2014, 5:42 pm
The day after Israel launched its high-intensity bombardment campaign against Gaza on July 8,
2014, other Israeli public figures continued the incitement against Palestinians. During a Knesset
speech, Deputy Speaker Moshe Feiglin called on Israel to cut off all electricity to the Gaza Strip.
“The blood of a dialysis patient in Gaza is not redder than the blood of our IDF soldiers who
will, God forbid, need to enter [Gaza],” he stated. During the same session, Knesset Member
Elazar Stern stated: “When we shoot at a house in Gaza, it is also in order for Gazans to live
better.” Separately, Knesset member Ayelet Shaked wrote, "What’s so horrifying about
understanding that the entire Palestinian people is the enemy?... The mothers of the martyrs...
should follow their sons, nothing would be more just. They should go, as should the physical
homes in which they raised the snakes. Otherwise, more little snakes will be raised there.” Rather
than charge these legislators with incitement, three Palestinian Knesset members were expelled
for criticizing Israel’s bombardment of Gaza.

Israeli authorities have not seriously attempted to quell this incitement against Palestinians.
Feiglin continues to publicly call on Prime Minister Netanyahu to commit what amount to war
crimes in Gaza, specifically calling for the internment of Palestinians in concentration camps in
Sinai and the destruction of the civilian infrastructure in Gaza. The Times of Israel, a widely read
Israeli newspaper, even went so far as to post (and later take down) an online op-ed entitled
“When Genocide is Permissible.”

The National Lawyers Guild and endorsing organizations request that the Office of the
Prosecutor investigate whether members of the Israeli military establishment and political
leadership have committed violations under the Rome Statute with respect to the following:

War Crimes

(1) Willful killing: Israeli forces have killed over 2,000 Palestinians (more than 80 percent
civilians, including over 470 children) according to the non-governmental organization
Palestinian Centre for Human Rights. Israel used 155-millimeter artillery, which, according to
the non-governmental organization Human Rights Watch, is "utterly inappropriate in a densely
populated area, because this kind of artillery is considered accurate if it lands any place within a
50-meter radius."

(2) Willfully causing great suffering or serious injury to body or health: Nearly 10,000
Palestinians of Gaza (about 2,200 of them children) have been wounded. UNICEF has said the
Israeli offensive has had a "catastrophic and tragic impact" on children in Gaza; about 373,000
children have had traumatic experiences and need psychological help. The UN Relief and Works
Agency for Palestine Refugees (UNRWA) said: "There's a public health catastrophe going on.”
UN shelters, medical facilities, the only power plant, water distribution facilities, and sewage
plants have all been targeted, in some cases, more than once and despite repeated calls by UN
officials to Israel reporting that civilian shelters were located near Israeli military activity.
(3) Unlawful and wanton, extensive destruction and appropriation of property not justified
by military necessity: Tens of thousands of Palestinians have lost their homes. More than 1,300
buildings were destroyed and 752 were severely damaged. Damage to sewer and water
infrastructure has affected two-thirds of the people of Gaza. The non-governmental organization Oxfam described the level of destruction as "outrageous ... much worse than anything we have
seen in previous [Israeli] military operations." The President of the International Committee of
the Red Cross Peter Mauer has said “I’ve never seen such destruction ever before.” Israel has
apparently reduced Gaza's habitable land area by 44 percent, establishing a "no-go" zone for
Palestinians three kilometers wide along the fence that surrounds the strip on the north and east;
82 of 147 square miles of land will now be off limits to its owners and others.

Sam H (410)
Monday August 25, 2014, 5:45 pm
Sorry about the bad formatting. Is there anybody else who's having difficulty opening the pdf file? I can e-mail the file to anyone who's interested.

Eleonora Oldani (37)
Tuesday August 26, 2014, 12:17 am

Thanks Angelika for the tips - I managed to open after all plus I got it via email from a very dear friend ...

I quickly glanced at it to be read later in depth. What I've read is excellent and an inquiry shouldn't even have to be discussed anymore.

If this IC wants to be taken serious then the signatory states to the Rome Statute better do something. The poor lady prosecutor can't go that thorny path without clear instructions. We all know by now how much pressure is applied by the US and IL - to a lesser extent by the EU - for IC NOT to investigate.

I'm not being blue-eyed ... this request wont go anywhere ... the file of war crimes and crimes against humanity committed by IL before will just get a notch thicker ... the outrage of the ordinary people will calm down and matters on the ground will go back to the status quo ante ... until the next drop makes the bucket overflow again ...


Angelika R (143)
Tuesday August 26, 2014, 6:00 am
.. true Eleonora,.probably so. But it's noteworthy that these lawyers did include the US for abetting, even naming in person whom they find to be guilty. That is new and could at best open a new file, ..IF..(lol)

To reach and maintain the status quo ante wouldn't be too hard for Israel, all they'd have to do is simply not agreeing to anything with the Palestinians. And the next war is merely a matter of time.

Given the lack of pressure on Israel and public outrage shifting the focus on IS now, some game-changing initiative from the Palestinians is needed.
Besides the ICC step, or in light of its possible/probable failure, another international lawyer in his article Judging Israeli-Palestinian Demands offers another suggestion:
"With a view to saving Israeli face while ending the siege of Gaza (and subsequently the occupation of the entire State of Palestine), the Palestinian leadership should publicly request the deployment of UN, U.S. or NATO troops to both Gaza and the West Bank to protect both Israelis and Palestinians from further violence pending a full Israeli withdrawal from the occupied State of Palestine."
That of course, among other obsticles and objections, gives no consideration to Netanyahu's recent firm statement to never ever giving up control over the West Bank and thus also seems just an illusion.


Angelika R (143)
Tuesday August 26, 2014, 8:56 am
Several news agencies report a new long-term ceasefire agreement has been reached today, going into effect tonight, official announcements to follow shortly.
Yahoo,RT, Reuters, Al Jazeera,Ynet

Sam H (410)
Tuesday August 26, 2014, 9:04 am
Thanks Angelika. It seems to have been confirmed by all sides.

Angelika R (143)
Wednesday September 3, 2014, 11:17 am
I assume you have seen the latest news that now ISRAEL is stepping ahead, i.e. the Israel law center has filed charges at the ICC against Meshaal for war crimes...

Eleonora Oldani (37)
Wednesday September 3, 2014, 3:39 pm

Hi Angelika - re you post of Tuesday August 26, 2014, 6:00 am - sorry I'm trailing way behind on certain matters (for private reasons) and I'm late answering. The Palestinians have since a long time requested the deployment of UN (or other) peacekeeping forces - to no avail. Israel is adamantly opposed to it so it doesn't get even considered.

And yes - with Bibi's statement everything said becomes an illusion, food for the masses. That's it.

No, I haven't seen the charges filed by the Israel law center ... wonder what the reasons are; they sure can't be very kosher ... will check into it. Thanks for the info.

Eleonora Oldani (37)
Wednesday September 3, 2014, 3:46 pm

Angelika - I did a quick search and found this at "Voz iz Neias" (

I was wondering when I read your comment how this would technically work - here's the answer:

"The original basis of the request, filed late Tuesday, was using Mashaal’s Jordanian citizenship against him since Jordan, unlike Israel and “Palestine,” has been a member of the ICC since April 11, 2002 and recognizes its jurisdiction over its citizens."

Smart "shysters" one has to admit ...

Now the core of the request centers around the well-being of the Palestinians living in Gaza - no joke!

"The complaint alleges that on August 22, 2014, Hamas “executed 18 so-called ‘collaborators’ who had been convicted of no crime,” including that it “publicly executed seven of these ‘collaborators.’” ... "Moreover, the complaint says that on July 28, 2014, Hamas summarily executed 20 Gazan civilians for engaging in anti-war protests against Hamas’ rule in Gaza."

Well ...

Angelika R (143)
Wednesday September 3, 2014, 4:13 pm
Exactly Eleonora, that is identical with what I read. The thing is, IF the prosecutor would dare to initiate investigation on this it would look pretty funny if at a later point in time she would refuse jurisdiction over any charges against Israel brought by the PA. Yet smart, as you rightly notice. That is what Abbas gets for dragging so long. His new "diplomatic initiative", that new peace plan being discussed with the US right now, will also not go very far I guess.
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