Start A Petition

U.S. Soldier 'Waterboarded His Own Daughter, 4, Because She Couldn't Recite Alphabet' Read More: Http://Www.Dailymail.Co.Uk/Ne


US Politics & Gov't  (tags: child abuse, crime, world, usa, society and culture, health and wellness, child advocacy )

Luisa
- 3386 days ago - dailymail.co.uk
A soldier waterboarded his four-year-old daughter because she was unable to recite her alphabet. Joshua Tabor admitted to police he had used the CIA torture ... As his daughter 'squirmed' to get away, Tabor said he submerg



   

We hate spam. We do not sell or share the email addresses you provide.

Comments

Luisa Fox (144)
Monday February 8, 2010, 12:44 pm
This story is simply horrific and speaks to our culture, when I say our, I also mean our cousins across the pond. It's hard to wrap this story around my head right now, thinking about the horror this child must have experienced.

Not only have we experted War and our blase attitude about torture, we have created a monster in other countries as well.
 

Kit B (276)
Monday February 8, 2010, 12:52 pm
This kind of SOB needs no excuse or method to borrow from for his sick ideas of how to teach a child. He did this in part for the attention using this technique would bring him. His daughter is afraid of water and now afraid of her father; before this the fear of water might have been resolved, now she will be afraid of water and hate her father for life. Lock this prick up and toss out the key.
 

Luisa Fox (144)
Monday February 8, 2010, 12:54 pm
Correction: exported
 

Marion Y (322)
Monday February 8, 2010, 12:57 pm
Sad. Violence begets violence...
 

LucyKaleido ScopeEyes (82)
Monday February 8, 2010, 1:26 pm

This is not the first time I have heard of insane punishment inflicted on a child for failure to recite something. The last time I heard about excessive corporal punishment, it wasn't CIA-style torture, but similarly horrendous and it was a father who attended Bible classes who was responsible. He didn't have the foggiest idea of what could be 'demanded' of a tiny tot, I mean, what a tiny tot could reasonably be expected to do.

Then there was the dad & his second wife who are going to prosecuted because the dad tied his young teenage son to a tree, beat him and left him out there overnight. The boy died.

Why do I have the feeling that it's the same people who think it's important to be tough on terrorists, & tough on pinkos, who are also just a bit too tough on their own kids!
 

Pamylle G (458)
Monday February 8, 2010, 1:54 pm
I am utterly horrified.
 

Yvonne White (229)
Monday February 8, 2010, 4:42 pm
This is just horrible.. this is also why I think ALL military & paramilitary (cops, firemen, etc.) should have yearly psychiatric exams by NON-military psychiatrists!
 

Barbara W (342)
Monday February 8, 2010, 4:44 pm
Touche Kit! Mere words are not enough!
 

Cynthia Davis (340)
Monday February 8, 2010, 8:44 pm
Well haven't the military had it pounded in their heads that water boarding is not torture? After all our former President and VP said it over and over that its not torture. God help this kid she will have problems with this for a long time if not the rest of her life. I don't believe in the death penalty but I believe I could personally water board this guy till he chocked the death.
 

Cynthia Davis (340)
Monday February 8, 2010, 8:47 pm
Sorry I meant ( chock to death ) I must go to bed now.
 

Marty H (119)
Tuesday February 9, 2010, 1:59 am
Thanks Luisa and noted! That's horrible! I think he should be fixed so he can't have anymore kids!
 

Luisa Fox (144)
Tuesday February 9, 2010, 4:23 am
Cynthia wrote:
"Well haven't the military had it pounded in their heads that water boarding is not torture?"
~~~~~~~
Exactly Cynthia. But I want to be clear, this is not about bashing the military. That is, is military people who put their lives on the line for what the administration(s) has led them to believe as "our freedoms". Yes, I know it's contradictory to support military but not support the War, which I don't but I believe many military people are doing what they were prepared to do even in their childhood, from football, play gun's, hazing in university fraternities, etc. Not no mention the blase way in which so many people here in the US take the idea of "water-boarding", as if it were just another day at the park. This I blame to Cheney and his memes who wiped their nose on the constituion and have been responsible for the most egregious violation of the law and what we the people stand for. A democratic republic.

I hope I made myself clear here, I don't want to bash military per se, many people on this forum probably have sons and daughter in the military and I don't wish to offend them. Some of my best buds are Vietnam radicals, and I don't wish to offend them. You know what I mean?
 

Luisa Fox (144)
Tuesday February 9, 2010, 4:36 am
PeasantDiva Wrote:

Why do I have the feeling that it's the same people who think it's important to be tough on terrorists, & tough on pinkos, who are also just a bit too tough on their own kids!

You make a good point here Diva. Unfortunately, we come differents shades and mind sets. Personally I think it's a way of life for some people as regards to their children and how they treat them. This was a horrific act of terror inflicted upon this child. It is my hope that not only the authorities but every child advocate in this country notes this and strives to make life safer for children.
 

Luisa Fox (144)
Tuesday February 9, 2010, 4:38 am
Cynthia wrote:
'Sorry I meant ( chock to death ) I must go to bed now."

Cynthia, maybe you had a little Freudian slip there and don't realize it. (smile)... I know I had a few dark thoughts as to what I would like to do to this horrible man for water-boarding his own child. Outrageous.
 

Cynthia Davis (340)
Tuesday February 9, 2010, 6:00 am
Luisa, Hope that no one thought I was bashing the military. I didn't want to leave that impression but to only point out that the Bush administration tried to make people think that water boarding was not torture and could be somewhat responsible for this mans act of cruelty. I want to say that I have great respect for the military and what they have to go though in times of war. I am totally against war how ever. Thanks for bringing this to my attention I think I needed sleep badly I had been up to long. I probably shouldn't write anything when I'm sleepy.
 

Luisa Fox (144)
Tuesday February 9, 2010, 6:04 am
Cynthia wrote:
"Luisa, Hope that no one thought I was bashing the military."

No, I don't think anyone did or we would have heard so.

I just want to be clear so no one makes the assuption. I ran this story on another board and was accused of bashing the military, so to be sure don't want it to happen here. I think sometimes people just don't want to read stories which hit close to home then they attack rather then discuss the issues opening and honestly.

Did you get my meaning on the Freudan slip? lololol

 

LucyKaleido ScopeEyes (82)
Tuesday February 9, 2010, 9:47 am
Cynthia meant 'choked to death' (the verb being 'to choke'). Sweet dreams, Cynthia!
 

LucyKaleido ScopeEyes (82)
Tuesday February 9, 2010, 9:50 am
I don't think it's bashing the military, because the WHOLE country was told that waterboarding didn't constitute torture. But really, be that as it may, you really have to be sick in the head to waterboard a child; as you have to be sick to try a child to a tree & leave him there all afternoon & all night, or inflict any kind of cruel punishment on a kid.
 

Luisa Fox (144)
Tuesday February 9, 2010, 9:56 am


Dr. Dick Green Recounts Stories of Some of the Animals Being Treated in the Wake of the Haiti Quake.>
Not sure this is the right url but I just posted it on Care2 - nor am I sure how I can proliferate the story to catch as many readers as I can.
In response to Cynthia's comment, yes I know she was tired and mixed her p's and her q's. It's kind of cute

 

Luisa Fox (144)
Tuesday February 9, 2010, 10:04 am
Peasant Diva wrote:

"But really, be that as it may, you really have to be sick in the head to water-board a child; as you have to be sick to try a child to a tree & leave him there all afternoon & all night, or inflict any kind of cruel punishment on a kid."

No argument there Diva. You have to wonder about this parent. Abuse of this magnitude is often a generational issue. That is, when children are abused by their parents in a violent manner, often but not always, they will grow up and abuse their children. It becomes an acceptable form of thinking without consideration to the violence involved in their acts. You might say it's thinking without thinking, if you know what I mean.
 

Cynthia Davis (340)
Tuesday February 9, 2010, 6:38 pm
Luisa, Yes I did get your meaning on the Freudian slip. It was a Freudian slip for sure as I don't believe in the death penalty but I was thinking about how bad I wanted to water board this guy and chock or chocked him to death myself.
 

Luisa Fox (144)
Tuesday February 9, 2010, 6:40 pm
I hear you Cynthia. lol
 

Simon Wood (207)
Wednesday February 10, 2010, 12:47 am
Apart from being clearly psychotic and sadistic, this is moronic. I mean torture experts know that torture does not actually work! It only succeeds in causing suffering - nothing more!!!

For more information, a great place to start is the documentary that won the 2007 Academy Award for Best Documentary: "Taxi to the Darkside":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxi_to_the_Dark_Side
 

James C (43)
Wednesday February 10, 2010, 1:04 am
Well, that oughta teach her! "Teach your children well" - It's all Crosby, Stills & Nash's fault.
 

James C (43)
Wednesday February 10, 2010, 1:06 am
We should, perhaps, keep in mind that he is one of our children. No?
 

James C (43)
Wednesday February 10, 2010, 1:08 am
Please think about this. It's easy to judge and it's easy to criticize. Make something better!
 

Maya Hiort Petersen (1)
Wednesday February 10, 2010, 1:35 am
I have to say, that I think that most people that want to be in war, and that want to be soldiers, are unfotunately already sick in the head before they are sent off to war... and if you think what he did to his daughter was terrible, then you probably do not want to know how he treated the people he was supposed to be protecting in Irak and Afganistan... the same way he was SUPPOSED to be protecting his daughter!! so scary.
all soldiers should have psycological testing before and after they return from war.
I am bias, because I am so against the military, I know they have also done good things, but, fpr the most, it is just a waste of money, and the people who make weapons are the only ones benefitting!
 

Past Member (0)
Wednesday February 10, 2010, 1:45 am
I'still with soldiers though... they just need special care and concer
 

Anita G (0)
Wednesday February 10, 2010, 2:01 am
what on earth does this teach the child? we are meant to care and look after our children, protect them from harm, learn them to be worthy people and that they can live their lives striving for what they want, but not walking over people, hurting or harming them or animals.
This is just awful. Ok it was what the Dad knew, but someone who doesn't think clearly about what he is doing to his own child, is not someone I would like to send into battle.
 

James C (43)
Wednesday February 10, 2010, 3:02 am
This just goes to show me, that nobody reads other people's comments. That's ok.
 

Maya Hiort Petersen (1)
Wednesday February 10, 2010, 3:04 am
I DID read your comment, (did you read mine??)
but it didn't really do much for me... seems pretty obvious, what you had to say, and it didn't stimulate me in the way that I had anything to add to it.
all the best though...
 

Johan Maltesson (166)
Wednesday February 10, 2010, 3:31 am
Very well said, Maya, I totally agree with your statement!
 

Rajee Seetharam (138)
Wednesday February 10, 2010, 3:47 am
Insane, totally so! Makes me wanna go there and punch the hell out of this father who is such a shame to fatherhood! My eyes are tearing up and I'm more angry! Reading along with me, my husband is shocked that a father can do something like this! That poor girl child!
 

Chandra B (3)
Wednesday February 10, 2010, 4:46 am
This is what happens when people with PTSD are not treated for their mental illness. I feel sorry for both of the people in this story . This is why I urge people to fight for equitable healthcare for all.
 

. (0)
Wednesday February 10, 2010, 5:30 am
I agree with Marion...........Violence begets violence..
 

Luisa Fox (144)
Wednesday February 10, 2010, 5:40 am
Simon wrote:
"Apart from being clearly psychotic and sadistic, this is moronic."

Indeed Simon...
 

Luisa Fox (144)
Wednesday February 10, 2010, 5:47 am
Chandra wrote:
"This is what happens when people with PTSD are not treated for their mental illness."

Chandra I don't thinkj we can say for certain that this soldier is suffering from PTSD. Maybe he is. The fact is that he is on active duty.

FTA: "Tabor has been charged with assault and ordered to remain on his base and have no contact with his daughter or girlfriend, who has not been named. He is due to appear in court this week."

Given we have established he is on active duty and ordered to remain on his base, what does that tell us? He may or may not be suffering from PTSD. If he is, it is the duty of the military to see he gets treatment, if he isn't suffering from PTSD but just a cruel and mean person, he still should be treated and learn how to treat his child in a human way.

In general people like this soldier are the same kind who have no problem burning dogs and cats alive for the hell of it.
 

Luisa Fox (144)
Wednesday February 10, 2010, 5:52 am
James wrote:
"Well, that oughta teach her! "Teach your children well" - It's all Crosby, Stills & Nash's fault. "

You make an excellent point here James. As Marion earlier states, "violence begats violence". Often but not always, child abouse is generational. If a child grows up beaten by their parents, as they grow into adults and have their own children, they will do the same to their children. It a generational issue for some people who do not question the practice of child abuse but simply pass it on to the next generation.
 

Luisa Fox (144)
Wednesday February 10, 2010, 6:01 am
Chandra.
You are right, this soldier IS SUFFERING FROM PTSD as you stated. How could we think otherwise given that we was walking around the neighborhood threatening to break windows, etc. Not good.

So then, that leads me to the next question which is: Why was he not being treated for this disorder? Or perhaps, this was the first manifestation that something was not quite right with this guy?

FTA:...Tabor, a soldier at the Lewis-McChord base in Tacoma, Washington, was arrested after being seen walking around his neighbourhood wearing a Kevlar military helmet and threatening to break windows.
 

Luisa Fox (144)
Wednesday February 10, 2010, 6:09 am
Magsy K. wrote:
"I'still with soldiers though... they just need special care and concern"

Magsy, let's be very clear here, this is not a discussion about bashing soldiers.

This is a discussion about how the waterboarding has become such a mainstream item, thanks to Bush/Cheney et. al. water-boarding is just another sport, something to talk about at cocktail parties or what ever.

The fact is that water-boarding per se, has hit the lowest bottom with the torture of an innocent child by her own father for christ sake, because she couldn't recite the alphabet.

With all due respect, you say you are on the side of the soldier, you say they need special care and concern, and this is true. But, have you forgotten about the child? Do you not believe she will not suffer psychological damage from the actions of her "sick" father?

Where is your empathy for the child?
 

linda b (186)
Wednesday February 10, 2010, 6:11 am
Well where was the mother when this poor specimen of a father was abusing his daughter.Soldier or not he's a low life and does'nt merit being called a father.
 

Luisa Fox (144)
Wednesday February 10, 2010, 6:14 am
James C. Wrote:
"This just goes to show me, that nobody reads other people's comments. That's ok."

James, when I post an item, I make it a point to read EVERYONE's COMMENTS... I assure you.
I would imagine most of us read everyone's comments though.

Thank you for your comments James. They are very much appreciated.
 

Luisa Fox (144)
Wednesday February 10, 2010, 6:25 am
Maya wrote:
" have to say, that I think that most people that want to be in war, and that want to be soldiers, are unfortunately already sick in the head before they are sent off to war..."

Maya, I respect your opinion but to say "most people want to be in war" is probably a stretch.

What happens is to our culture prepare us for war, children play "cow-boys and indians", young men play rough and ready sports like football (I love football), fraternities and sororities prepare guys and gals for rough and ready games (hazing), the ROTC is ready teddy recruiting in university, and on and on.

We are by definition a war culture, it began with Manifest Destiny and expansionism and we are in many respects still there today. This is the nature of the beast.

Having said this, this does not mean that we all want and LOVE war or at every American standing is sick in the head as you put it. Absolutely not.

Many people after serving in the war zone return with a different attitude and are often those who speak out against war. There are many of not millions of us who do not like this aspect of our culture, and we actively work towards changing this mindset.

So, I will leave you with this thought.

NO, not everybody wants war, NO not every American standing worships WAR, and NO, HELL NO we won't go...

We are the only ones who can change this, yes we can...
 

Maya Hiort Petersen (1)
Wednesday February 10, 2010, 6:50 am
hello there,
I also have to respect your opinion.. I am sure that you are a very good person, and I do not mean to insult you or anyone else, but for the moment I need to say my thoiughts, and they are not intended towards you, but my experiences.
A large amount of Americans have been brain-washed, as most Europeans to think that there are good guys and bad hiys, some people let their children play with plastic guns, and if you watch american television, 2 out of 3 things on, glorify crime, war and being an American! Fight for your country!! Fight the Terrorists! Fight fight fight. It is bullshit. War is a great business, that is what war is.
I have to take back my comment, in one way, because no all people that want to be ne war are sick.. some of them join the army to get away from they home-life. The military is filled with young brainwashed boys thinking hey are out to save the world. I know a lot of soldiers, I lived by the American base in Seoul South Korea, and aa lot of them were messed up. A lot of them realized they did not want to be there when the time came. I even met quite a few who joined the army to get away from their abusive families and trailerpark lives. I am against war, and I am against the American way of making war everytime there are funds in it. I know that Obama is trying to put wrong right... but you have to admit, oil has more to do with it than for the good of 'GOOD' If that was the case, why did the whole look away while small childrens feet legs and arms were being cut off and military raoe of thousands of young girls, kidnapped and tought to use weapons in Sierra Leone, America didn't di a thing. Did they help in Rwanda? Or in Burma? No, there is no oil there.
It is hard for someone not living in America, and growing up so close, Toronto, and having so many wonderful American friends, open-minded, and wonderful people, like you meet anywhere, and that is wonderful with the world of course. The place we live does not make for the person.
I must say, however, that I think media has far too much say, I do not hav a tv and listen only to BBC and my local radio. I can't handle all that war war hate hate, and the fact that it all has to do with money. I have a hrad time understanding why the hell anyone would want to be in the war. I have an easy time understanding how someone would want to help someone else, and everyone on this site wants to help, or do a little part. And I know that you, you are doing your best, and keeping in your Pollitically correct attitude, this is not directed as a personal thrashing.
But your last statement makes my stomach sort of turn. It proves that the media has had their hooks in you.
that is what scares me.
I am sorry if I have given you any offence,
all the best to you, Maya
 

Maya Hiort Petersen (1)
Wednesday February 10, 2010, 6:53 am
sorry for the spelling mistakes, I wrote that a bit too quickly.. got carried away.
 

Luisa Fox (144)
Wednesday February 10, 2010, 6:57 am
Explain yourself Maya:

"But your last statement makes my stomach sort of turn. It proves that the media has had their hooks in you."

The problem I have with most of what you say is that you make gross hasty generations about everything and everyone.

With all do respect, a little lesson in reading comprehension and logic 101 might be helpful.
End of story.
 

Maya Hiort Petersen (1)
Wednesday February 10, 2010, 7:02 am
with all do respect, I did not make gross hasty generations... how, what??

okay. I do not want to fight wth you. I don't. but please, think about it.
why do the taliban have weapons?? The Americans gave them to them. Weapons are a big buisness. You have to admit!
I mean... did you vote for Bush??
com'on,
that is not hasty!
please. I am a very logical person, and very thoughtful and sensitive. And maybe that is why I don't understand war, or wanting to be in war, or wanting to play with a gun, or lettng my children play with them. Did you even read what I wrote?
it is not against you!

thanks again.
 

Luisa Fox (144)
Wednesday February 10, 2010, 7:25 am
Maya wrote:
"Did you even read what I wrote?
Maya, I am wonder the same thing about you?
Did you read what I wrote?

This discussion is about a U.S. Soldier water-boarding his innocent child. We can go on and on about other related issues, speculate about the why's and the why not's, but must be cautious about gross generalitions about all people and make claims that they are all "all sick in the head", or the like.

And while we're at it, I assure you I don't need a lecture about foreign policy and world affairs.
 

Maya Hiort Petersen (1)
Wednesday February 10, 2010, 8:21 am
Touché.
 

Jean M (143)
Wednesday February 10, 2010, 8:35 am
I agree with Kit B. lock him up and never let him go near his daughter again.
 

Luisa Fox (144)
Wednesday February 10, 2010, 8:44 am
Jean wrote:
"I agree with Kit B. lock him up and never let him go near his daughter again."

The sad thing about it Jean, is that the dad had just been awared sole custody of this dear child.
I can't help but ask, where is the mother?

This child is in peril, which ever way we look at it.

I certain hope Child Protective Services is doing their job, and they too often fail to look out for these children. I am absolutely certain she will not be in the custody of her father now. What will happen to this poor child remains to be seen. While Foster care is probably an option, I hope she she has loving relatives to care for her.
 

Past Member (0)
Wednesday February 10, 2010, 9:30 am
I feel this in-human man will be safer locked up! our kids are on loan to us to do the best we can for them! NOT the best we can for us! if we were all brought up using bullyboy tactics this world would cease to be full of unique - intelligent people bringing forth great ideas that no-one else has thought of. But stifle the kids of today and lose the genius of tomorrow!!
 

Luisa Fox (144)
Wednesday February 10, 2010, 10:02 am
Thank you for your comment Maria.

I glad to see your care about our children and they peril so many of them are living today.
 

Terry G (11)
Wednesday February 10, 2010, 12:31 pm
Obviously the military are brain-washed. Ever meet a Marine or an ex marine. There is no such thing as an ex Marine. Once a Marine, always a Marine.
This guy wasn't brain washed that way. He water boarded his own (only 4 year old daughter) He probably would have done it whether or not he was in the military. He's sick in the head and needs help!
 

Barbara West (0)
Wednesday February 10, 2010, 12:45 pm
No doubt the child would if she could, BUT SHE IS HIS OFF SPRING! I don't think the fault is hers. He obviously is a stupid idiot, you can tell by his actions. And the other brainless idiots with him? I would charge them all with child abuse and hang them by their worthless "you-know-whats"!
 

Dan S (9)
Wednesday February 10, 2010, 12:47 pm
Someone needs to be sterilized!
 

Luisa Fox (144)
Wednesday February 10, 2010, 12:48 pm
Dan S wrote:
"Someone needs to be sterilized!"

O U C H ! ! !
 

Luisa Fox (144)
Wednesday February 10, 2010, 12:53 pm
Terry G. wrote:
"This guy wasn't brain washed that way. He water boarded his own (only 4 year old daughter) He probably would have done it whether or not he was in the military. He's sick in the head and needs help!"

Exactly Terry. And yes, I've met a few Marines. I had a retired Marine (female) supervisor for a time.

Loved her, but man, she was sometimes too much.

 

Barbara West (0)
Wednesday February 10, 2010, 12:56 pm
Whoa! My husband served in the Marine Corp in Viet Nam! We raised four wonderful children. They have blessed us with 23 terrific grandchildren and now 3 great-grandsons! My husband would put his fist through a wall before touching one of the kids. Not all military are stupid!!!
 

Neal Rudin (21)
Wednesday February 10, 2010, 12:56 pm
This man and those who made him should be paraded down the streets where "Chainy", Rummy and Bush live. They are all "Chicken Hawks", those who send others to war and yet, for some reason, forget to join the military and learn what war is about. The only thing good to come out of this insidious act is that we are now becoming aware of the after effects of our warrior state...
 

Little A (33)
Wednesday February 10, 2010, 1:14 pm
I get the feeling she was already scared of him before he waterboarded her. What happens now to this girl?
 

Abo r (107)
Wednesday February 10, 2010, 1:17 pm
I agree with you Kit B

I agree with Maya

THis father should be judged.
 

Luisa Fox (144)
Wednesday February 10, 2010, 1:22 pm
Dunno what will happen for sure, I'll do some follow-up.

I can tell you as a burned-out professional social worker, the laws are pretty strict. For now she will become ward of the court, if she's lucky a relative will take this little girl and give her a temporary loving home. Then the court will order a family assessment which includes psychological assessment as well as drug testing. Then, at least in the state I live in the case worker will examine the assessments and make recommendations to the court. Undoubtedly psychological counseling, and parenting assessment as well as requirement to undergo various classes to eventually be returned to her natural parent or parents.

All this is very general, but none the less applies in general to CPS ...
 

Luisa Fox (144)
Wednesday February 10, 2010, 1:24 pm
Neal Rudin wrote:
"This man and those who made him should be paraded down the streets where "Chainy", Rummy and Bush live. "

Man after my own heart...
 

Past Member (0)
Wednesday February 10, 2010, 1:27 pm
Why are you so surprised and outraged?...This guy is only following tricks he learned from the US government 'think tank'...He has been brainwashed and is therefore not guilty of semi-suffocating his daughter?

If "our" government trains people to kill and torture, what the hell can we expect?

When will we ever learn?
 

Van Fleener (0)
Wednesday February 10, 2010, 1:28 pm
This is a product of war. PTSD as it is now called is suffered by many of us 'soldier' children. Action that should be taken is more follow ups with soldiers that have been to war. I am glad he finnaly went off far enough with breaking windows he was discovered. So many never get found out untill its to late. I pray that the family gets the help they need. Soldiers are amongst us all so they are no diffrent, they are bosses, fellow workers, house wives, husbands, fathers, mothers, teachers, active duty or not, it is how they have dealt with thier past/present. The waterbiarding issue is but a tip of the iceberg. No body wins a war. Peace!
 

Luisa Fox (144)
Wednesday February 10, 2010, 1:51 pm
Van wrote: "The water-boarding issue is but a tip of the iceberg. No body wins a war. Peace!"

You hit the nail right on the head Van. The problem with PTSD is very real and as I've commented before on the rise. We have to talk about it, bring it to the forefront.

We must demand we to bring the men and women in the theater home.

To stop this war like culture we live in. It is the only way we will survive as a culture and as a nation in the short and long term of it all.

Astonishing enough, in 243 years 42 American spend $1.01 Trillion dollars and it took George Bush et. al. 8 years to spend 2.6 Trillion dollars. Stats from the DCCC. So folks, we're getting screwed coming and going. It's time to stop this madness and the byproduct of War, like this innocent little girl.
 

Past Member (0)
Wednesday February 10, 2010, 1:57 pm
Bring home the troops NOW! Before they all go mad!

War is legalized murder. nothing more, nothing less. How many more 4 year old kids have to be tortured before the world wakes up?
 

Marilyn K (50)
Wednesday February 10, 2010, 2:05 pm
This is a situation where this father is mentally ill. We don't know if he has always been that way and it never came to light but now that it is known the child should be permanently taken away from the family. If the mother is also unfit to raise her I am sure that there are many couples who would love to adopt this little girl. In any event she needs immediate therapy to get her back on track of being a normal, healthy child.
 

Past Member (0)
Wednesday February 10, 2010, 2:55 pm
as a survivor of extreme child abuse myself... believe me she will never outgrow this fear he has put into her... I feel for her, that sweet little girl... he should be punished severely... back in my day, my family wasn't punished at all...
 

Mary S (12)
Wednesday February 10, 2010, 3:35 pm
I wonder what asessments were done prior to this man being awarded sole custody of his daughter? Did somone screw up or was he just very good at hiding any violent and abusivr tendencies?
 

Luisa Fox (144)
Wednesday February 10, 2010, 4:33 pm
Mattie A. Wrote:
"s a survivor of extreme child abuse myself... believe me she will never outgrow this fear he has put into her... I feel for her, that sweet little girl... "
Maggie, thank you for sharing with us the life long suffering of a childhood violence. It is real. Indeed.

I hope you advocate for abused children when ever the occasion should arise.

Peace.
 

Luisa Fox (144)
Wednesday February 10, 2010, 4:46 pm
David Buchan wrote: "War is legalized murder. nothing more, nothing less. How many more 4 year old kids have to be tortured before the world wakes up?"

David I ask myself that every day. We are reaching the point of no return with Afghanistan and Iraq, Iran overflowing, and Israel our closest ally fueling the fires in Middle East set for bear with enough nuclear weapons to blow out Iran and the entire Middle East and themselves along with it.

We have to step up dissent and say no more.

No more War.
 

Barbara Tomlinson (431)
Wednesday February 10, 2010, 5:12 pm
It would be interesting to know, if this soldier was ACTUALLY INVOLVED in torture sessions in Iraq and Afghanistan {at Bagram Air Force Base}. THESE MEN AND WOMEN, the actual TORTURERS, must be psychologically damaged FOR LIFE, ALSO. {Even tho their defense may be, They were "only following orders.....!"}

While some lower-echelon people got all the BLAME, the RESPONSIBILITY goes ALL THE WAY UP THE CHAIN OF COMMAND; all the way to the VERY TOP: to Dick Cheney and to then-Secretary of Defense, Donald Rumsfeld.

Water-boarding isn't something that just "occurs" "spontaneously" to "bad-apple" ordinary soldiers looking for mischief. {As they try to make us believe! They think we're idiots, to believe that!}

It was a recognized technique FIRST used by the Spanish Inquisition, as far as we know. {There are old engravings of it being used.]
Then it was used by the United States in the Philippine Islands, to "pacify" the "restless natives". {I have a POSTCARD FROM THE 1920's, showing this torture used by U.S. soldiers on a Filipino native man.}

Torture is used to TERRIFY A POPULATION; NOT to "get information" or anything remotely like that.
It is used to show a population "See what we can do to you; if you don't CO-OPERATE with us fully!"
Torture is used to {subconsciously} TERRIFY YOU AND ME, as well as those labelled our so-called "enemies" {the ones our Ruling Class want to subdue in order to EXPLOIT}. It's supposed to SCARE US into compliance and subservience, as well.

In SPITE of the CONSTITUTIONAL SPECIFIC PROHIBITION AGAINST TORTURE, Article VIII of the Bill of Rights, "No...cruel and unusual punishments [to be] inflicted"; in SPITE of the Constitution being the theoretical Law of the Land, we have become a COUNTRY WHICH CONDONES TORTURE; it is used by "the Good Guys" on our TV shows, etc..

It is therefore NO WONDER that waterboarding-torture has SPREAD TO ATTITUDES AS WELL AS ACTIONS, OF THE POPULACE IN GENERAL. It has entered our consciousness as being "okay", "justified".
We will NO DOUBT BE SEEING MORE OF THIS SORT OF THING.
And that should surprise no-one.

Those at the HEAD OF OUR GOVERNMENT UNDER PRESIDENT BUSH, who INITIATED the Official U.S. TORTURE POLICY; Judge Baybee, who SPECIFICALLY AUTHORIZED IT, and all those CLEVER DEFENSE DEPARTMENT LAWYERS such as J. Yoo, who BUILT THE LEGAL FRAMEWORK FOR IT;
AS LONG AS THEY ARE NOT CHARGED, PROSECUTED, AND BROUGHT TO JUSTICE FOR THOSE TORTURE POLICIES IN ANY WAY,
we, the United States of America, NO LONGER abiding by the Constitutional Provisions of our Founding Fathers,
WILL BE A 'TORTURE COUNTRY" actively pursuing a "TORTURE CULTURE"; and we will be THE PUBLIC HUMILIATION AND SHAME OF THE WORLD.
[NOT the "Guiding Light" example we smugly used to think we were!!!]
 

Merv Gillespie (30)
Wednesday February 10, 2010, 6:10 pm

I totally agree with all the condemnation being heaped on this mentally disturbed individual.

But why all the irrelevant and totally unrelated linkages.

Yes he is a serving soldier but …the inference is clearly being made he used the same torture method of waterboarding as used by the CIA to break Al Qaeda suspects at Guantanamo Bay which is not the case.

It was obviously horrific for the terrified little girl but what was described to have taken place was not waterboarding and I question the motive of labelling it as such in this report.

“During a police interview Tabor allegedly admitted grabbing his daughter, placing her on the kitchen counter and submerging her face into a bowl of water.”

Whilst waterboarding has the hooded victim tied down on their back on the floor and water is dropped from some height over the area of their mouth and nose to cause panic and a fear of drowning.

The deliberate ploy in this report was to label soldiering as being responsible for this behaviour to the exclusion of all other factors.

And sure enough it had the desired effect on the gullible target audience who craves for (but can't see through) this sort of propaganda to make false claims.

D. Buchan.
“How many more 4 year old kids have to be tortured before the world wakes up?”

A pathetic analysis but very typical.

Many cases of child abuse sadly take place every day of the week but they don’t get into the media because they do not have the sensational aspects to them that were invented for this report.

The soldier is real, but waterboarding, CIA, Al Qaeda, Guantanamo Bay have nothing at all to do with what happened.

If the guy was a civvy this story would probably never have seen the light of day.

What the guy did is inexcusable but it can’t be held up as typical behaviour of a particular group. That would be like saying all Palestinians are evil because hamas are terrorists. Which of course is not true.
 

US Veteran (95)
Wednesday February 10, 2010, 7:47 pm
So lets hang this ba$tard but let the Bush/Cheney Administration go free?
Lets hang em all and let their god sort em out!
 

Debbie G (306)
Wednesday February 10, 2010, 8:16 pm
Scary situation. I don't believe it can be blamed on the military. If he is suffering from PTSD, he should get help, but, he may have been psychotic already but still needs help. I do feel bad for the poor child. She now needs help and recovery.
 

Terry B (649)
Wednesday February 10, 2010, 8:19 pm
As a dual veteran (US and Canadian) I'll go along with US Veteran 100%.

But I will bet god won't do much sorting, so I suggest something more drawn out than hanging -- how about waterboarding until they die of starvation?
 

Uno D (666)
Wednesday February 10, 2010, 8:20 pm
The man is a miscreant. I've no pity or empathy for anyone who would hurt a child. I don't care how he got that way. But that's just me. *shrug*
 

Matloob ul Hasan (81)
Wednesday February 10, 2010, 9:02 pm
noted, thanks.
 

Laura H (950)
Wednesday February 10, 2010, 9:09 pm
The entire thing is SO sad...
my heart breaks for the little girl.
 

Deanna Zimmerman (74)
Wednesday February 10, 2010, 9:27 pm
I'll never understand how soldiers, sworn to protect our rights, can abuse them so horrifically. This soldier is not the 1st to abuse his family, but I hope this case helps to bring this problem to the forefront of issues soldiers face when transitioning from the battlefield to the homefront.
 

Barbara Tomlinson (431)
Wednesday February 10, 2010, 9:40 pm
I disagree that this is not "Waterboarding".
"Waterboarding" or the Spanish Inquisition "Water Torture" can take more than one form. It doesn't have to follow exactly the "Protocols" established by the CIA. The main idea that DEFINES it, is, it SIMULATES DROWNING. That is what the father did to the four-year-old.
It is a MENTAL TORTURE. It attacks your MIND; your INSTINCT TO LIVE.
{Whether a cloth is used, a bucket, whatever.}

I have heard of lots of instances of Child Abuse, unfortunately: hitting, locking in closets, starving, etc.
This is the FIRST time I have heard of a parent SIMULATING DROWNING of a child.
I think this {obviously insane} man GOT THE IDEA FROM THE CIA. {Where else?}
"Waterboarding, i.e. Simulating Drowning" is being constantly talked about; and with a HIGH DEGREE OF "APPROVAL", in the Media and by individuals.

Abusive parents don't THINK they are "abusers"; they are "merely" DISCIPLINING a child, in their own distorted minds!
This insane and crazy father, just thought that Water Torture or as it is called, "Waterboarding", was NOT TORTURE BUT "DISCIPLINE".

The Military Establishment doesn't get off THAT easily!!!
My point is, we have BRUTALIZED OUR CULTURE to the point where EVEN PARENTAL DISCIPLINE OF KIDS is effected.
This goes against YEARS WHEN THE TREND WAS TOWARDS MORE HUMANITY.
Now with torture being "officially OK", we have GONE IN THE OPPOSITE DIRECTION.
 

James M (29)
Wednesday February 10, 2010, 9:53 pm
This man may have served our nation, but this is still not a feasible excuse. He tortured a 4 year old girl! His own daughter nonetheless. He should be brought up on charges of cruelty, child endangerment, and a criminal abuse of a minor. He should never have custody of his daughter again and should only have supervised visits. He is an animal in my book and post traumatic stress disorder is not a viable excuse in this case.
 

Carmen S (69)
Wednesday February 10, 2010, 10:00 pm
I think we are forgetting the whole thing. Lets just say he has Ptsd what about all the other soldiers who have this and on top have lost an arm or leg. Yet they are loving fathers.
My husbadn was in WW11 he landed in Omaha beach with all the floating bodies of dead G.I.s being shot at getting off the beach. He saw horrible things and killed some of the enemy. He was finally blown off the tank he was on. Came home with a Bronze Star and Purple Heart.
He had nightmares that woke him up. Many nights he woke me with his sscreaming of things only a soldier can say.
at that time there was no PTSD. And through all this he was a loving and terrific father.
There is absolutly no excuse for this man. None. Period. And if you make excuses for him you have to apologize to all those wonderfull soldiers who come home with a lot of baggage and yet manage to be caring fatheres.
 

Deanna Zimmerman (74)
Wednesday February 10, 2010, 10:11 pm
BMutiny,
@Now with torture being "officially OK", we have GONE IN THE OPPOSITE DIRECTION.
Obama outlawed waterboarding AND other forms of torture (although now there is a fine-line question as to what constitutes torture, a study that the Bush administration commissioned).
I HOPE it's not "officially OK." But I guess time and whistleblowers will tell.
 

Deanna Zimmerman (74)
Wednesday February 10, 2010, 10:56 pm
Ooops, did I give the impression that I excuse this guys behavior? I don't. But there is a difference between an excuse (which might or might not exhonerate a person), a reaon (which usually would exhonerate a person), and an explanation, which just helps us to understand the behavior without excusing it.

I'm suggesting that everyone is different and reacts differently to various experiences. Most soldiers come home and treat others with love. However, there are some who come home and can't leave their training on base.

There are plenty of cases where the wives and children have suffered at the hands of returning soldiers. All I want is for soldiers AND their faimilies, to get ocassional psyche reviews to try to prevent these crimes.
 

Ancil S (175)
Wednesday February 10, 2010, 11:29 pm
This is just so shocking,and so very,very sad.I'm afraid words fail me on this,I,,,just can't believe this.
 

Brigitte T (69)
Thursday February 11, 2010, 1:11 am


It's not totally relevant whether this man is a soldier or not: *** child abuse is always wrong.***
and it is always sick!

This poor little girl is marked for life now because her father did that to her.

Does it matter to her that he is a soldier or not? Will it matter when she grows up? He was a soldier but she was not the enemy or a terrorist.

Now about the fact that he's a soldier: it's not an excuse for torturing little girls; as such he should have been trained properly and taught that you never use violence against unarmed, harmless human beings who pose no threat to anyone, especially when they are under-age.

But what do you expect in the US army where the general message is that torture is fine, or that torture is not torture, and where so many rapes against female soldiers take place and go unpunished??

What do you expect when a government of mass murderers (GWBush, C.Rice, C. Powell etc and you can add the Clintons who're no better, and now Obama) remain untouchable and unpunished?

Whether it was technically waterboarding or not is irrelevant too. The experience must have been just as horrible and traumatizing while the little girl experienced drowning, and what made it even worse and scary was that it was by the hand of her own father, the man whose duty was to protect her at all times.

But of course there will always be irresponsible individuals who try and find excuses for sadistic abusers like this, see their comments here and you can be pretty sure that some are hiding in your neighbourhood too.
 

Brigitte T (69)
Thursday February 11, 2010, 1:11 am

"I don't know a more irreligious attitude, one more utterly bankrupt of any human content, than one which permits children to be destroyed."-- Daniel Berrigan
 

Jere W (9)
Thursday February 11, 2010, 5:44 am
Noted. Assault??? Assault??? What ever happened to "child abuse"???????????? This makes me sick!
 

Cynthia Davis (340)
Thursday February 11, 2010, 6:17 am
Brigitte wrote, "But of course there will always be irresponsible individuals who try and find excuses for sadistic abusers like this, see their comments here and you can be pretty sure that some are hiding in your neighbourhood too."
I don't think anyone here is making excuses for this man, there is no excuse for what he has done. But I think when things like this happen people try to understand why someone would do something so horrific. Sometimes there is no why but if we don't try to find the why it will most certainly happen again.
 

Luisa Fox (144)
Thursday February 11, 2010, 8:29 am
BMutany wrote:
"While some lower-echelon people got all the BLAME, the RESPONSIBILITY goes ALL THE WAY UP THE CHAIN OF COMMAND; all the way to the VERY TOP: to Dick Cheney and to then-Secretary of Defense, Donald Rumsfeld."

I share your sentiments BMutany.

We are all deeply concerned, torn inside-out and conflicted beyond all reason by the aftershocks of 911. Not so much of the inevitable combat that was to come but of the deeply distressing uncertainty and doubt concerning the prognosis for our Country, our Constitution and our Government of the United States of America. It is apparent from reporting of the press, the revelations of secret operations, and the memoirs of high government officials both here and abroad that our way of life, our institutions and our freedoms are in jeopardy. Our continuation as a Republic of democratic principles and government of the people faces a clear and present danger--from within--not from without. The recent revelations relating to our intelligence operations conducted in contravention of U.S. Rule of Law under the provisions of the FISA Code are of grave concern.

If left to continue they will fester and bring upon us a plague the likes of which we have never known. It appears they originate from within and under the direct sanction of the Executive Branch by Order of the Highest Authority. These sanctions and unheard of Authority vested in and carried out by former Vice President Cheney and his Office of the Vice President, are without precedent.

Further, it appears they were without equal among the Three Branches of Government: The Executive, Judiciary and the Congress. The manifestations of the so-called Unified Executive is of particular concern and continues to this day.

Needless to say, the scurge of the actions of these men is looking at us in the face as we speak.
 

Luisa Fox (144)
Thursday February 11, 2010, 8:34 am
US Veteran wrote:
"So lets hang this ba$tard but let the Bush/Cheney Administration go free?"

No, USV, never. Those of us who care about our country must continue to speak out, march, sign petitions, write letters, and never, never let off. Chenee may well hide in his hidey ho in Jackson Hole, but he is not forgotten for his dastardly deeds. Never.
 

Luisa Fox (144)
Thursday February 11, 2010, 8:38 am
Ancil wrote:
"This is just so shocking,and so very,very sad.I'm afraid words fail me on this,I,,,just can't believe this."

Yes Ancil, it's hard to wrap one's head around the fact that a father would do this to his child. Unfortunately, children are abused every day in horrendous ways. This made the news because it happened to be a soldier, and because he was applying what he learned on the job, his training as a military man, to a poor innocent child. It's chilling.
 

Luisa Fox (144)
Thursday February 11, 2010, 8:41 am
Terry B. wrote:
"But I will bet god won't do much sorting, so I suggest something more drawn out than hanging -- how about waterboarding until they die of starvation?"

Terry, least I appear sadistic like this awful man, I do like the idea of waterboarding this guy. But of course, was was probably waterboarded as part of his training so he know what to expect. The guy is a POS for sure.
 

Luisa Fox (144)
Thursday February 11, 2010, 8:43 am
Deanna wrote: "Ooops, did I give the impression that I excuse this guys behavior?"

No Deanna, at least not to me. Your comments are thoughtful and sincere. Thank you.
 

Luisa Fox (144)
Thursday February 11, 2010, 8:53 am
Mary Gillespie wrote: "Yes he is a serving soldier but …the inference is clearly being made he used the same torture method of waterboarding as used by the CIA to break Al Qaeda suspects at Guantanamo Bay which is not the case. "

Mary, indeed it is true that this soldier did not use the exact same torture method of water-boarding as used by the C.I.A to *break* suspects. Despicable on it's merit but not for this discussion.

It is the case that this father used techniques he learned in his training as a soldier. It is also the case that as a nation we've become completely desensitized and oblivious to the fact that "torture" is allright if it saves American lives, a la George Bush and Dick Cheney. Waterboarding is embeded itself in the lexicon and for some has the same reaction as a walk in the park.

Denial of torture as evident in the actions of this father toward his child is akin to believing water-boarding is an effective tool for gaining intel when it has been proven otherwise, again and again. Denial of how water-boarding is more or less part of american parlance thus taken for granted is like looking at the forest but not the trees.

It's time for a reality check, and the story of this man, a soldier, a father, abusing his innocent child using torture techniques he learned in his training is one more wake up call for action not denial of the scurge of War and it's byproduct permeating into our culture as we speak.
 

pam w (139)
Thursday February 11, 2010, 12:09 pm
This is the perfect example of post traumatic stress syndrome and my heart goes out to all of the people involved here. I hope he gets help instead of an over-reactive prison sentence.
 

Luisa Fox (144)
Thursday February 11, 2010, 12:27 pm
Pam wrote:
"This is the perfect example of post traumatic stress syndrome and my heart goes out to all of the people involved here. I hope he gets help instead of an over-reactive prison sentence."

Pam, thank you for your throughtful post.

I hope you're right on both counts Pam. A family assessment will reveal whether as a father he has ever been known as violent, in addition a psychological assessment will asses his state of mind in relation to his military service. It is possible for the family to heal, it is possible he maybe reunited with his daughter. In the long term, I wish the outcome to favor the best interest of the child.
 

Past Member (0)
Thursday February 11, 2010, 3:07 pm
I am sure most, if not all, people find this mans conduct appalling but what deeply concerns me is that he was awarded custody of the daughter. That in and of itself screams that there are some very dysfunctional family dynamics here already. This child now has two strikes against her-two people who should never have had children. There are so many children in horrible situations that will impact them and their children and their childrens children for generations to come. Too bad we can't find a way to regulate procreation. I know horror of horrors! But how else do we stop the depravity?
 

Deanna Zimmerman (74)
Thursday February 11, 2010, 3:23 pm
I would caution against judging the mother. We have no idea why the father was awarded custody. It doesn't automatically mean that the mother was unfit to have children.
 

Luisa Fox (144)
Thursday February 11, 2010, 4:06 pm
I want to comment to all who post here. It seems we are on different times so when some of you post, I'm in dream land. It's a shame because I would like to respond to each and everyone one of you as you comment. I truly appreciate our continuance in discussing this incident of child abuse because it raises questions above and beyond the obvious yet relevant to the fabric of our lives.

However, as you by now have seen I may have slept through your posts, but there is always the next morning and I will respond to each and every one of you accordingly.

This story brings to light how our country is changing, how we are more violent every day. It brings to light how War is not just abroad in the Middle East, but in our front lawns, outside our windows, affecting our precious innocent children, and the very fabric of our lives.

Thank you for posting.

I appreciate everyone of you.
 

Sheryl G (359)
Thursday February 11, 2010, 6:55 pm
This poor child. It said the Court gave HIM costody over the child! Either the Courts are also out of their minds or what is the natural Mother like to this child? Does this child have no-one that has a head on their shoulders to raise her?
I would of fought off a raging lion to have protected my child and yet these parents do unspeakable things to their own flesh and blood. It is so sad how low the human being can go. I hope that the system doesn't fail her now and finds a good loving home for her so maybe she can one day move beyond this.
 

Cynthia Falwell (137)
Friday February 12, 2010, 10:39 am
Oh my gosh, we are talking about a 4 year old little girl. This guy should have the same done to him in a courtroom in front of a jury. This monster is insane, military or not, he knew better. He should get a life sentence for doing a child like this. But, I am so tired of putting people in a place where they are fed good, clothed, housed and given medical attention. The government should find a place that is nasty, full of rats and stagnate water and send all child abusers, child rapists, child killers and Likewise to add animal killers and abusers to the lists. All these people do not deserve any better. People like this make me physically ill!!
 

Neal Rudin (21)
Friday February 12, 2010, 11:11 am
Actually, people such as he are mistreated by other prisoners because, even in their world, these people are seen as dispicable. Because the military need more people all the time, crazies were allowed in much too often...
 

Robyn L (80)
Friday February 12, 2010, 2:37 pm
I don't believe anyone can blame this sort of action on being sent over to Iraq. It's his own child for pete's sake. I would be willing to bet this man has a long history of violence before he even signed up for the military. It will be interesting to see what his sentence will be.
 

Luisa Fox (144)
Friday February 12, 2010, 4:37 pm
Robyn wrote: "I don't believe anyone can blame this sort of action on being sent over to Iraq."
~~~~
Robyn, just for clarification, there is nothing in the article which mentions anything about this man being sent to Iraq. The title of the article, "U.S. Soldier waterboarded his own daughter, 4...", thereafter, given the his heineous act, there is speculation about his state of mind in association with his active military service, which brought on conjectures and speculations we all have about why this father would do such a thing to his own daughter.
 

Anumpeshi Aduddell (227)
Friday February 12, 2010, 4:38 pm
This is a mild story of soldiers coming back from war with depleted Uranium /brain damage, they keep the horror stories of soldiers coming home and killing there wives and children hidden, so the public won't panick!See Lauren Mouret, for facts on DU and soldiers,I pray the daughter is removed form this mans terror!!!!!!!!!!!The gov/military does not educate the public on PTSD nor take care of returning slodiers from wars, they end up hungry and homeless, we see them every day here in Venice Beach!When the public decides they will have no more fathers, brothers and sisters going to war,and refuse to allow anothrer human to step foot in a soldiers uniform, then this will end, there will be no more soldiers to fight, and besides that, war is paid for by the federal reserve notes, now backed by nothing and printed on baby diapers,the money scam/system is about to dive and will never arise again,a new way of life shall begin thru an aopening of the Heart,feminine energy will nurture and return to mothers , sisters,daughters and friends,all life is connected thru the cosmic force and all lives or all life's breath is One.We are children of the law of One/Peace join us at www.ghostdancers.org
 

Luisa Fox (144)
Friday February 12, 2010, 4:40 pm
Dandelion wrote: "I hope that the system doesn't fail her now and finds a good loving home for her so maybe she can one day move beyond this."

You are so right Dandelion, let us hope the nightmare this child experienced while being held down in the water by her father will fade into her memory in years to come. I say this because I am an internal optimist, professional this child is scarred for life.
 

Luisa Fox (144)
Friday February 12, 2010, 4:44 pm
Neal wrote: "Because the military need more people all the time, crazies were allowed in much too often..."

Luisa says, you are right Neal, there are several articles to the effect the military has slacked on their recruiting criteria and anything goes.
 

Luisa Fox (144)
Friday February 12, 2010, 4:51 pm
Martha Pendino wrote:
"Too bad we can't find a way to regulate procreation. I know horror of horrors! But how else do we stop the depravity?"

Martha, I understand your outrage. I don't have the answers by a long stretch but I can say I think there is a very dark side to human nature, and why some choose that path is beyond me. In a certain respect, we could say it has to do with nurture and nature but probably in the case more to do with nurture thus generational. I am suggesting that if a person grows up in a violent environment, whose parents are dysfunctional and abuse them psychologically, physically, and sexually, the probability is very high they will also go on and further down the road abuse their own children. Let me be clear,

I am not suggesting everyone who has been abused by their parents will go on and abuse their children, because of their own pain, they will not repeat on their children the same abuse. I am saying, part of this violence is generational and part is also that some people are just plain mean and hateful and we can't change that.
 

Dee B (21)
Friday February 12, 2010, 7:55 pm
There are nutcases in all facets of life. Chemical imbalances in the brain, heredity, parenting, or lack of, upbringing, and just plain wickedness......geez, there are so many factors/reasons/questions as to why people are nuts. Hope they both get help. This was really awful!
 

Luisa Fox (144)
Friday February 12, 2010, 8:16 pm
Diana. wrote:

"There are nutcases in all facets of life. Chemical imbalances in the brain, heredity, parenting, or lack of, upbringing, and just plain wickedness......geez..."
~~~~

Luisa wrote: You got that right Diane. You know what I have wondered about?
Aside from the horrendousness of this mans abuse of his innocent 4 year old daughter, do you not wonder if we would even be talking about it if the headlines on the story had not been: "U.S. Soldier 'Waterboarded His Own Daughter, 4, Because She Couldn't Recite Alphabet' Read More..."?

Think of it, soldier, waterboarding, daughter. Incredible.

To me it spoke to two things, how waterboarding has permeated our psyche into everyday conversation and the issue of PTSD...

Waterboarding is a very serious issue, yet no less serious then the abuse of children in our society on a daily basis. When we combine the two, it's a deadly cocktail of violence beyond anything I had yet to have imagine.

Hasta ma~nana folks.


 

. (0)
Friday February 12, 2010, 9:23 pm
no wonder she could not recite the alphabet... he was obviously bullying and abusing her for a long time and she had become petrified of him... this dastardly beast needs to be locked up and tortured and not allowed to have his daughter back.. he definitely has issues..
 

Ellinor S (41)
Saturday February 13, 2010, 12:55 am
awful story poor girl
 

Jay curnow (196)
Saturday February 13, 2010, 2:55 am
This is indeed an horrific case......I've always said that those who consistantly witness violence become de-sensitised (wether they become aware of it or not) it is" bullying"in the worst sese......& sadly bullying has somhow becomean acceted part of everyday life....it worries me that bullies @ heart join the forces.....where they are taught to hone it to perfection.....they then find it acceptable to dominate others.....friend or foe!.......& are regarded as hero's for doing so!
If as individuals we were encouraged to focus on OUR OWN ATTITUDE to life......& why we feel as we do....encouraged to to view the positives.....as opposed to being bombarded with all that's negative.....MAYBE just MAYBE.......the world would be a better place!........& where better place to start than with children.....the future generation!
louisa I admire your efforts in trying to keep track of comments on your posts........no mean fete!
 

Jay curnow (196)
Saturday February 13, 2010, 3:14 am
please excuse the typing errors......ie it's bullying in it's worst SENCE.+ ACCEPTED part of everyday life etc;.....I was unable to check before submitting due to suns glare!......sorry!
 

Luisa Fox (144)
Saturday February 13, 2010, 5:59 am
Jay wrote:
"I was unable to check before submitting due to suns glare!......sorry!"
~~~~
Luisa responded: The glare of the sun you say? Well, dang send some my way.

Here it's cold, dreary, black ice, and snow. Love the snow, but I love the sun more.
 

Luisa Fox (144)
Saturday February 13, 2010, 6:20 am


U.S. soldier accused of waterboarding four-year-old daughter

Follow-up.

The Nisqually Valley News reported that Tabor was intoxicated during the incident and that his daughter had locked herself into the bathroom.
He appeared to be intoxicated.

When police arrived they discovered Tabor’s 4-year-old daughter had locked herself in a bathroom.

Tabor’s girlfriend allegedly told police that Tabor has an anger problem and beats his daughter, Stancil said.

The child was interviewed and photographs were taken of the bruises that covered her body.

During the investigation it was also discovered Tabor may have held the girl’s head, backward, in a sink of water because she wouldn’t say her ABCs, Stancil said.

Tabor allegedly admitted to police that he did it because he knew she was terrified of water.

Stancil said Tabor admitted to using this means of punishment three to four times.

The girl was in Tabor’s custody for about a month and a half, Stancil said.


She moved to Yelm from Montana where she lived with her grandparents.

Stancil said when the girl moved, Tabor and his girlfriend cut off all communication.

Tabor was arrested for third-degree assault of a child, but police are requesting charges be increased to second-degree assault of a child because of the alleged water incidents.

His arraignment is scheduled for Tuesday, Feb. 16 in Thurston County Superior Court.

They are also asking the prosecutor to charge Tabor’s girlfriend, who he said helped hold the girl down in the water.

The girl was taken into custody by Child Protective Services and her grandparents were coming to get her.

The couple has a 2-month-old child together, Stancil said.
~~~~~~
This man is a monster in my book and deserves to have the book thrown at him to the highest degree of the law. I earlier had loftty hopes of family reconciliation and healing. Well, FORGET IT, this man does not deserve to have children, let alone raise them.

 

Sue L (73)
Saturday February 13, 2010, 8:25 am
What a sad, horrific story. My heart goes out to this poor little girl. I pray that her grandparents are loving and kind and fit to take care of this child in a responsible manner. She at least deserves that after the terror she has suffered at her father's hands.
 

Luisa Fox (144)
Saturday February 13, 2010, 8:34 am
Sue wrote:

" I pray that her grandparents are loving and kind and fit to take care of this child in a responsible manner. "
~~~~~~
Luisa wrote: Sue, I feel as you do. This dear child will require therapeutic care for a very long time, if not for the rest of her life.
 

Kimberly Crane (36)
Saturday February 13, 2010, 10:19 am
WAY to GO Daddy!!!! Real parenting SKILLS there!!!!! NOT!
 

Deanna Zimmerman (74)
Saturday February 13, 2010, 12:22 pm
Ok, here comes different point of view. If this guy is an alcoholic, there is a chance that he can redeem himself thru becoming and STAYING sober (not just dry).
There are thousands of parents who have tortured their children during drunken and doped up stoopers. But when they get clean and sober, and feel turely remorseful, they are able to go thru the reunification process and become very good parents.

So, my vote is for this guy to serve time for torture, and then see if he wants to do the work necessary to make ammends. Otherwise, the grandparents should be granted permanent custody.

In the end, I guess I know that this guy didn't become a monster all by himself. He had a lot of help, and needs a lot of help to redeem himself. Once the child is safe, I'd like to work on healing HIM. Prisons should be for punishment only for those who feel no remorse. After a year of punishment, dedicated healing should be the goal (whether parole is the goal or not).
 

Luisa Fox (144)
Saturday February 13, 2010, 12:37 pm
Deanna wrote:
"Prisons should be for punishment only for those who feel no remorse."

Excellent point Diana. I shift back and forth, especially when I read the last account posted here. Families do heal, sometimes children are returned to the very monsters who have sexually abused them, if and only if, they have shown in every way, they are rehabilitated. This is true.

The only other observation I can make is, we don't know if this man feels any remorse or not. Tuesday will be his day of reckoning. I plan to stay on top of the case and post. If you have any new information, be sure to do the same.

Enjoy your day... All day long. lolol
 

(3)
Saturday February 13, 2010, 12:42 pm
How screwed up would the kid's mother have to be for THIS guy to get custody? She must be a junky, schizo sex offender.
 

Deanna Zimmerman (74)
Saturday February 13, 2010, 1:07 pm
Excuse me Thomas,

This man got custody from the childs GRANDPARENTS. So we don't even know if the mother is alive.
 

Yulan Lawson (156)
Saturday February 13, 2010, 4:19 pm
Very Very Sad. He needs help.
 

Luisa Fox (144)
Saturday February 13, 2010, 4:36 pm
Deanna wrote:
This man got custody from the childs GRANDPARENTS. So we don't even know if the mother is alive.
~~~
The story is this brute won custody of the child from her natural mother just recently. Which in itself raises quite a few questions.

Now this sweet little girl is living with her grandparents. I hope they are able to provide a better life for her then apparantly she has had thus far.

~L
 

Luisa Fox (144)
Saturday February 13, 2010, 4:38 pm
Thomas wrote:
How screwed up would the kid's mother have to be for THIS guy to get custody?

Thomas, the mom must be pretty bad herself to lose custody. This poor kid certainly has not had a good start in life. Let's hope life turns out a little better for her.
 

(3)
Sunday February 14, 2010, 8:09 pm
Yes, let's hope. So horribly many children's bright futures lost to stupid, uncaring and unfit parents.
 

Luisa Fox (144)
Monday February 15, 2010, 6:23 am


Detained Americans seek distance from adviser

...PORT-AU-PRINCE, Haiti -- Relatives of a group of jailed U.S. missionaries thought a man who volunteered legal assistance - but who may be wanted for human trafficking in El Salvador - was a good Samaritan, a family member said.

Jorge Puello was not known to the missionaries' church group before their arrest for trying to take 33 children out of Haiti, and members failed to check his background, Sean Lankford, the relative who dealt most closely with him, said Saturday.

This is an update to the story. The Miami Harold reported that the attorney who has been advising the missionaries is indeed wanted for trafficking women and young girls into prostitution in Latin America.

The spokeman for the missionary group argues this should have no bearing on whether the missionaries are set free or not because the advisor misrepresented himself to the missionary group that a different case all together.

It seems to me the missionaries were very naive about a lot of things, they didn't know they were taking these children out of the country illegally, they didn't know they were working with a human trafficker, they didn't seem to know too much if you ask me.

Should they be released or should they remain in Haiti until they are tried and found guilty or not guilty?

What do you think?
 

(3)
Monday February 15, 2010, 5:24 pm
"It seems to me the missionaries were very naive about a lot of things"

Christian missionaries naive? Say it's not so. I find it difficult to take anything the missionaries say too seriously, as I see a parallel between this incident and what the Catholic church did after WW2. Whereas the Church had indeed rescued many recently orphaned Jewish children and gotten them out of Nazi occupied Europe, they then refused to turn the children over to their blood uncles, aunts and grandparents when the war was over on theory that the children were better off in Catholic homes than they were in any Jewish home, even it it were their real family. One only need look as far as Pat Robertson's recent comments on Haiti to see what devout Christians think of Voodoo Haiti.
 

Luisa Fox (144)
Monday February 15, 2010, 6:19 pm
Thomas wrote:
Christian missionaries naive? Say it's not so.
~~~~
You're right Thomas. I just try to look at the most positive aspect of this story. But to tell you the truth, I was also being sarcastic.

Your comment about the Catholic Church after WII is very interesting and I don't doubt it. It's the first time I've heard of this. I will do some research to see if I can find more on this aspect of the Catholic Church.

It's hard to wrap your head around Pat Robert's' comment, the man is not an aberration of religiosity hypocrisy and mean spirit in the name of "the Lord", Roberts is an abomination of the human condition. Disgusting.
 
Or, log in with your
Facebook account:
Please add your comment: (plain text only please. Allowable HTML: <a>)


Track Comments: Notify me with a personal message when other people comment on this story


Loading Noted By...Please Wait

 


butterfly credits on the news network

  • credits for vetting a newly submitted story
  • credits for vetting any other story
  • credits for leaving a comment
learn more

Most Active Today in US Politics & Gov't





 
Content and comments expressed here are the opinions of Care2 users and not necessarily that of Care2.com or its affiliates.

New to Care2? Start Here.