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Freeing Dr. Aafia, a Matter of Honour

US Politics & Gov't  (tags: abuse, bush, clinton, corruption, democrats, ethics, government, Govtfearmongering, media, obama, republicans, usa, terrorism, cover-up, crime )

- 3271 days ago -
Dr. Affia Siddiqui has been held in the Bagram Air Base prison, notoriously associated with severe mistreatment of prisoners, for years.


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EcoWorrier M I A MoonWalk Again (947)
Monday March 8, 2010, 5:37 am
what can we do to stop this?

Past Member (0)
Monday March 8, 2010, 5:49 am
Notes,thank you.

Luisa F (144)
Monday March 8, 2010, 5:54 am
Eco, we will just have to get our heads together and see what we can do.

What a better day then today to post this story... Thank you for noting...

Luisa F (144)
Monday March 8, 2010, 6:06 am (Mar-05-2010 02:08)
The family of Dr. Aafia Siddiqui, Prisoner #650
Poem Dedicated to Dr Aafia on Women's Day, March 8, 2010
Sunday, 07 March 2010 22:41

Aafia Siddiqui: daughter of humanity
The world has many heroes
Many great sisters, super fellows
But Dear Aafia, very unique
Strong in faith, weak physique
Her message of peace and love
Soars the skies as a white dove

Aafia Siddiqui, daughter of humanity
Guiding the world towards unity

Wars peoples have fought
For centuries people distraught
Each battle for various freedoms

New borders and new kingdoms
Countries dividing, boundaries increasing
Flags multiplying, morals decreasing

Aafia Siddiqui, daughter of humanity
Guiding the world towards unity
In this era of chaotic derail
Sorrows and injustice prevail
A weak and feeble woman
A barely live, fragile skeleton
Aafia a hero, standing for a cause
Peace! Not an enemy, never was

Aafia Siddiqui, daughter of humanity
Guiding the world towards unity

Wake up call for a sleeping nation
Reviving honor in a shameless situation
Her plight, her strength and intensity
Courage, passion and bravery
Her battle has no boundaries
Injustice her target, vanquish atrocities

Aafia Siddiqui, daughter of humanity
Guiding the world towards unity

Every victim coerced she symbolize
Humanity her army ready to rise
Her hurt, Her pain, and humiliations
Unites the hearts of several nations
One slogan one cry, STOP, STOP
Torture and rendition, STOP, STOP

Aafia Siddiqui, daughter of humanity
Guiding the world towards unity

When in court she will appear, head up high
Adorned with brutal bruises, all will sigh
Her opponent, king of all atrocity
Compelled to bow down to Her piety
Full of discord, hostility, animosity
Conceited vanity, will submit to her humility

Aafia Siddiqui, daughter of humanity
Guiding the world towards unity

Dear Lord, her trial a mockery of justice
Jury verdict of hate and prejudice
No crime proved, or evidence shown
America, Isreal’s nasty cover blown
Dear Lord, Now we see her destiny
Saintly hero! Great martyr of this century

Aafia Siddiqui, daughter of humanity
Guiding the world towards unity

Pride of Islam, love of Pakistan
Biggest threat to evils terror plan
Her freedom, imprisons terror, misery
Ends war to stability, Raises economy
Feeding on war, Her captors, go hungry
her release, enlightens their criminality

Aafia Siddiqui, daughter of humanity
Guiding the world towards unity

Luisa F (144)
Monday March 8, 2010, 6:46 am

The Service and Sacrifice of All American War Veterans is at stake.

FTA:...Today Admiral Sirohey is scheduled to attend a rally protesting the illegal kidnapping, brutalizing and conviction of Dr. Affia Siddiqui. America’s best friends in Asia, the finest soldiers in the world are horrified at what we have done.

Can it be that bad?

The Bush administration, when it saw its “War on Terror” wasn’t getting enough suspects, hired drug cartel members and criminal elements to kidnap innocent civilians to fill our secret prisons.

Yes, we actually did this.

In this case, we kidnapped a mother with 3 children, tortured her for years, murdered a small child and then charged her with attempting to murder her captors after years in a secret prison on Bagram Air Force Base.

Every soldier on that base; everyone who has served there has to live with the dishonour of this act until something is done.

Remember when America, after World War II, painted the people of Germany with the stain of guilt for not knowing about the death camps? Tell me what is different here?

We didn’t know that druglords and gangsters were stealing people off the street to fill our prisons with “terror suspects” so Bush/Ashcroft and Cheney could crow about their successes? If you didn’t know before, this is what all the secret “torture memos” were all about, not real terrorists, but innocent people we “bought” as though we were slave runners of old.

A few years after we bought our phony terror suspects, tortured, raped and brutalized them, most were released.

They had committed no crime other than to be standing on the wrong dark street corner when the druglords working for Bush were out hunting “meat” for America’s gulags.

Dr. Aafia had to be convicted, had to be jailed and silenced.

The crimes against her and her children were so heinous, only a kangaroo court in America, a country whose news is orchestrated by the Islam hating MSM/Corporate media and powerful Israeli/AIPAC lobby, would have the audacity to bring her to trial...

....I can talk of honour or service but all people see is babies and their mothers, shot to death, lining the bottom of a ditch.

It is a matter of honour....
...Our silence strips our honour away.

Dr. Aafia Siddiqui was not a terrorist. The newspapers lied, we all know why. Either she is guilty or we all are. Better to destroy her than to arrest those guilty of real crimes, arrest people some of us voted into high office.

“We were just taking orders.”

Where have we heard that before, Nuremberg? It isn’t just this one life. We've already killed over a million people in our ill fated invasion of Iraq. Fog of War. We know better, everyone with eyes to see knows better, know it now. Then why are we still acting like criminals? No more lies. We are at war, a war with real enemies. We have so little; our short lives, our families and what we believe in...

...The only possible answer is that everyone involved in the trial of Dr. Aafia Siddiqui is a liar. Nothing else is possible. I know why they lied, they were ordered to “for the good of the service.” Was there something in the oath involving “protect and defend the Constitution of the United States of America unless told to lie for the good of the service?”

What are we protecting?

Once the public learns that we are buying phony terror suspects from the world's largest drug dealers, people we are protecting, people flooding our streets with narcotics, there might be problems. Best not let the public know why we never found those weapons of mass destruction, that yellow cake uranium, those mobile bio-weapons labs or why our continual search for Osama bin Laden keeps failing.

The deal of the century, destroying an innocent life and earning the hatred of a valued ally, all to stand behind the lies and rhetoric of America’s “dark age.” We would be lucky if it were only every citizen of Pakistan that was enraged at us for this travesty. It is worse, far worse.
Who are the real terrorists? In Pakistan, Admiral Sirohey, friend to half a dozen American Presidents is heading to a peaceful protest. What can we, Americans, claim? If kidnapping, torture, rape and covering it up by letting the victim rot in prison isn’t terrorism, I don’t know what is.

We should be thankful for that seat on the UN Security Council. We may need it for more than covering up for Israel. The next nation facing sanctions for international crimes may be us.
All that stands between us and being cut off from the world is our veto. All that is keeping an entire administration from War Crimes trials is the Bush administration's withdrawal from the International Criminal Court at the Hague.

Why is President Obama allowing the outrages of the Bush administration to continue?


Carole Sarcinello (338)
Monday March 8, 2010, 7:21 am

The U.S. hypocrisy of pretending that they are warring for democracy and freedom is utterly nauseating.

I recently posted a share:  War Is A Racket.
"Smedley Butler was the most honored man in Marine Corps history. He wrote and spoke that the purpose of US wars is millions and billions in profits for America's leading “bankers, industrialists, and speculators.” War is a “racket:” a deception whereby its purpose of blood money from American taxpayers to “insiders” is always disguised as noble and necessary ventures to keep Americans propagandized into paying again and again."

Luisa F (144)
Monday March 8, 2010, 8:05 am
Excellent share Just C, I hope everyone takes the time to read it. Incredible is it?

When Dick Cheney pushed to privitize the war during tBush Daddy's term and finalized the effort with George W. the US put the nail on the coffin to our woes. Well at least us the working people while the War fully bloomed into the biggest racket in the United States. permeating every aspect of our lives.

Great share Carole, thank you.

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Monday March 8, 2010, 8:14 am

Honestly, Luisa? When I read it, I kept thinking, "No wonder the media has not paid any attention to this book!"

That's why, increasingly, those who seek knowledge must find alternative news sources. (And also why the government keeps insinuating that it will control the internet . . . for our own good, of course.)

Luisa F (144)
Monday March 8, 2010, 8:19 am

Dr Aafia prominent in Women's Day events in Pakistan
Monday, 08 March 2010 09:07


Luisa F (144)
Monday March 8, 2010, 8:25 am

This is why the extension of the Patriot Act is significant. Most of not all of our alternative news comes via the internet and the Patriot Act can insure we will not be getting this information. For our own good as you say. That's why we have to fight this all the way. I revert here to the writings of Howard Zinn and "The People Speak".

Quote: If democracy were to be given any meaning, if it were to go
beyond the limits of capitalism and nationalism, this would not come, if history were any guide, from the top. It would come through citizen's movements, educating, organizing, agitating, striking, boycotting, demonstrating, threatening those in power with disruption of the stability they needed. ~~~Howard Zinn

chris b (2474)
Monday March 8, 2010, 8:34 am
Apart from the civil war and the war of independence from us Brits, America has never had to fight a conventional war in its own back yard or in the case of WW1 and 2, 22 miles across the English Channel with a madman champing at the bit to get at us, You must remember him, little tache and not keen on Jewish people etc! Having wars at comfortable distance is a wonderful money spinner until the flag draped coffins keep come home and statistically we have more of those than the US so we are feeling the effects of the Bush push period every day still, as UK personnel are bagged up for return with appalling monotony just as US and other coalition personnel are! The purveyors of war should be required to fight themselves preferably on some uninhabited desert island far away from civilised folk! Then of course they would not want it if all they got was blood and guts with no great sacks of dollars! Of course the turning point of 9/11 suddenly changed all that and there are those that lay the blame for that right at the feet of the propagators of war! Some have even suggested the whole thing was orchestrated by those that wanted an excuse to go on an oil war binge! Who knows as if that was the case whistle blowing is unlikely! The peas will have already been firmly glued shut!

Peter S (5)
Monday March 8, 2010, 8:51 am
Do we know what happened here? Why why was this woman detained/kidnapped? If she is prominent in "Womans Day Affairs" in Pakistan than she is obviously not a card carrying member of the Taliban. Could some-one please give me the background on this and are there any lawyers on board to lend a hand?
Although Obama has not fulfilled his promises of change from "Georgy Porgy" the environment is quite a bit better than it was & action must be possible. On the surface this is atrocious!

Luisa F (144)
Monday March 8, 2010, 10:30 am

Peter, thank you for your input. Rather then a very long posting, I am posting several links, some videos, which should respond to your question.

This issue is very important throughout the the tribal Jirgas in Afghanistan. Women's rights issues are a major consideration and activism is at a very high level now, and very unreported in the west.

Aafia will just not go away

Brave Mother Of Aafia Siddiqui Speaks Up

Let Aafia Go Home

Was Aafia Siddiqui wrongfully accused?

Guilty verdict of Dr. Aafia Siddiqui enrages Pakistan


Luisa F (144)
Monday March 8, 2010, 11:49 am
Peter here are the events of Aafia's imprisonment
Let Aafia Go Home
From Khaleej Times
by: Aijaz Zaka Syed
18 February 2010

Reading all those legal thrillers by John Grisham and watching Hollywood blockbusters that portray innocent individuals framed and ensnared by a powerful system, one always thought: Of course, these things do not happen in real life.

I am not so sure anymore though. The abduction, persecution and now conviction of Dr Aafia Siddiqui, an MIT-educated neuroscientist, by the US authorities reads like a regulation Grisham thriller written for Hollywood.

Aafia disappeared with her three children on her way to Karachi airport for Islamabad way back in 2003. Five years later, she was presented in a New York court in March 2008 as “a top Al Qaeda terrorist” and the “most dangerous woman on earth,” as US Attorney-General John Ashcroft put it.

The US authorities claimed then that Aafia was captured near Ghazni governor’s office in Afghanistan with a bag that carried instructions on making explosives and a list of US landmarks.

But more damningly, the US authorities claimed that the frail mother of three attacked a team of eight US soldiers, FBI and Afghan officials in Ghazni with a highly sophisticated, heavy M-4 gun in Ghazni when they went to question her. Surprisingly though, it’s Aafia who ended up with two gunshot wounds, inflicted point blank. None of the officials she allegedly attacked sustained any injuries or wounds.

Last week, after months of courtroom drama and charade of a trial, Aafia was convicted of attempted murder and attacking US soldiers and FBI officials with a deadly weapon.

If you think this is an impossibly implausible yarn, you are right. This case, if it can be called that, is perhaps the most potent example of Orwellian justice and the evil and absurd nature of the so-called war on terror. Like I said, you always believed that such things happened only in the movies and world of fiction.

I mean there are so many gaping holes in the “case” that the US authorities have built against Aafia that the UN Charter of Human Rights, Magna Carta and US constitution can pass through them all at once.

The biggest and most obvious absurdity of this case is the fact that Aafia was presented before the world as a dreaded terrorist and “Al Qaeda mastermind” but she has been tried on the charges of assaulting US officials with the intent to kill. If she was a terrorist why she was not tried on terrorism charges and why on using a gun to attack US soldiers?

Where was Aafia hiding or hidden between 2003 and 2008, after she was picked up in Karachi apparently by the overenthusiastic Pakistani authorities and was turned over to the US officials as an Al Qaeda terrorist? How did she end up in Ghazni? What happened to her children, two of whom are US citizens? And if she had indeed been planning terror attacks, would she be moving around with the incriminating “evidence” of bomb-making material in her bag? And if she had really been on a murderous mission, would she set out with her three young children in tow, the youngest of them was a six-month old baby?

I mean the authorities could have at least demonstrated some common sense and ingenuity in framing and setting up Aafia. This is an insult to the intelligence of ordinary Americans—majority of whom apparently believe in reason, common sense, justice and rule of law – and the rest of the world.

I am no Sherlock Holmes or Perry Mason. But it doesn’t take an extraordinary mind to unravel this cock-and-bull plot against a helpless, innocent woman. This whole thing stinks – it stinks even at this distance.

Let’s face it: This is the story of another innocent individual being victimised and persecuted in the name of war on terror and freedom and democracy.

Aafia is just one of the hundreds of innocent men and women picked up in Pakistan under the “enlightened and moderate leadership” of General Pervez Musharraf and sold over to the Americans in the name of fighting terror and in response to the US pressure on Islamabad to “do more.”

God only knows how many such innocents are rotting out there in gulags like Guantanamo Bay and Bagram and many other secret, nameless prisons around the world. Look at Aafia’s background. She grew up in the US and went to some of the best schools and colleges crowning her Ivy League education with the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and a PhD in cognitive neuroscience from Brandeis University. She returned to Pakistan after the 9/11 events and thought she was safe back home in Karachi surrounded by ?friends and family.

How could she have known that her own government would sell her to the Americans for a price? If this could happen to a US-educated neuroscientist, I shudder at the plight of ordinary, ?illiterate folk.

British journalist Yvonne Ridley, who has been campaigning for Aafia’s release for two years as part of human rights group Cageprisoners, believes that the Pakistani scientist is none other than the Prisoner No. 650 who was held and tortured for years at the infamous Bagram prison and came to be known as the Grey Lady of Bagram.

Ridley’s claim is backed by Moazzam Begg, the Briton who spent years at Bagram and Guantamo Bay before being released as innocent. Begg talked of the Grey Lady of Bagram and how her excruciating screams haunted him at Bagram in his recent book, ?Enemy Combatant.

If Aafia’s imprisonment and persecution all these years – for seven years – was an affront to all that America claims to champion, the guilty verdict against her following this sham of a trial is the ultimate mockery of justice and due process of law.

It just beats me how the New York court and jury returned a guilty verdict despite Aafia’s first person account of her frame-up and subsequent persecution and her physical condition. She had to be brought on a wheel chair into the court and most of the time she was in no condition and shape to understand what was going on around her.

There was absolutely no evidence linking Aafia to the gun, no bullets, no residue from firing it. In fact, FBI’s ballistics expert Carlo Rosati conceded he cannot confirm with certainty that any shots were fired from the M4 rifle.

Yet they found Aafia guilty and the minimum sentence Aafia faces on the ridiculous charges brought against her is life in prison.

As Yvonne Ridley says in a recent piece, “the jury couldn’t handle the truth.” Because that would have meant acknowledging that an innocent woman had been really abducted, abused, and held in dark, secret prisons before being shot and put on a rendition flight to New York. The jury, as Ridley puts it, so desperately wanted not to believe that their country could have had a hand in all these crimes against a defenceless, lone woman. They just couldn’t handle the truth!

President Barack Obama gave all of us hope when he took over from George W Bush, promising to shut down the Guantanamo Bay within a year and uphold justice and the rule of law. Even though the Gitmo is still far from shut, many of us still haven’t quite given up on Obama’s promise to restore the world’s trust in America.

President Obama also promised, and repeatedly, of a “new way forward with the Muslim world.” Even on this front, he is yet to show progress.

But if Obama is indeed keen to turn a new leaf with the Islamic world, he could do so by setting Aafia free. He should use his extraordinary powers to put an end to this poor woman’s terrible, terrible nightmare. Aafia has become the most potent symbol of injustice across the Islamic world and all that went horribly wrong with Bush’s war on terror.

Obama could signal a break with that dark past by freeing Aafia. Let her go home, Mr President. God knows she has suffered enough. It’s time to show America has moved on.

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Monday March 8, 2010, 11:52 am

This is not pointed at you, personally, Luisa . . . but I've begun to notice -- after signing so many petitions, emails, faxes, etc. to our government -- that Americans repeatedly speak to their representatives (including the President) in a form of begging.

That's a dangerous -- and very troubling -- signal.

Luisa F (144)
Monday March 8, 2010, 12:37 pm
I gather you mean our petitions beg rather than demand?

If so you're right of course, but I think it might have something to do with protocol and the way we address formal questions. Not sure.

What do you think?

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Monday March 8, 2010, 12:39 pm

What do I think?

I think it's wrong. I think it is a perversion of the reason these "representatives" were appointed in the first place.

They were elected to voice the opinions of their constituents.

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Monday March 8, 2010, 12:42 pm

They were elected to be the "voice" of those who elected them. Instead, they have become demi-gods, who -- once in office -- perform the bidding of their true masters . . . corporations.

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Monday March 8, 2010, 12:45 pm

As such, since they are in a position of power now, Americans have become subservient to their own elected officials. This has gone on so long that a distorted "Stockholm Syndrome" has become the norm.

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Monday March 8, 2010, 12:50 pm

What a "coozy" spot for these same politicians, who are owned by pharmaceutical companies, who, in turn, drug a huge majority of the populace into believing -- through their endless brainwashing primetime ads -- that normal feelings must be medicated.

Luisa F (144)
Monday March 8, 2010, 12:56 pm
Carole wrote:
As such, since they are in a position of power now, Americans have become subservient to their own elected officials. This has gone on so long that a distorted "Stockholm Syndrome" has become the norm.
Sooooooo right. You are hot today baby.

Did you have some kind of new age brain food for dinner last night?

All kidding aside, we are indeed on a national level suffering from Stockholm Syndrome disorder coupled by sheeplie condition and it looks like for now we have yet to find the cure.

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Monday March 8, 2010, 1:00 pm

You can go back to my news submitted from more than two years ago.

My constant cry has been:


Carole Sarcinello (338)
Monday March 8, 2010, 1:06 pm
WAKE UP AMERICA!   US Politics & Gov't  (tags: dishonesty, constitution, government, ethics )

Just - 727 days ago -
Truth is available here. View it before it disappears . . . and TAKE ACTION WHILE YOU STILL CAN! (If you can copy this, let me and all others who care know!)

Luisa F (144)
Monday March 8, 2010, 1:10 pm
Good posts Carole, I will check them out in detail.

I will be away for a bit so don't beam up on the space ship and not return like Gregory you hear?

I want to discuss prefacing a petition on behalf of Dr. Aafia either by PM or here for everyone to chime in.


Carole Sarcinello (338)
Monday March 8, 2010, 1:17 pm

I'm sorry if I over-reacted, Luisa . . . but I do find it insulting that someone, who is obviously unaware of my huge body of work, would make a comment like, "Sooooooo right. You are hot today baby."

I've been hot today for MANY days! (and I always will be.)

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Monday March 8, 2010, 1:19 pm

Human/civil rights and political circumvention of them, *IS* a HOT topic for me. (and I don't appreciate having years of work on that cause minimized)

Luisa F (144)
Monday March 8, 2010, 1:28 pm

Omigod Carole, in no way meant to chide you. Not in the least. Honestly. I really respect and treasure you, your convictions and dedication to political issues, your passion. That just goes to show you sometimes we just don't come across very well. My sense of timing obviously didn't this time.

I sincerely apologize.

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Monday March 8, 2010, 1:37 pm

There are few rewards, or accolades, for decades of work in the area of human rights.

My life is a testimony to my beliefs. And, yes, I'm very sensitive to criticism -- in particular, from someone who says they believe in the same.

We must give respect from within. (God knows, it doesn't come anywhere else.)

Luisa F (144)
Monday March 8, 2010, 1:40 pm
Carole, in no way was a criticizing you. Honestly. Don't understand how my comments were considered criticism.

Now I really have to go. Hold down the fort... Peace.

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Monday March 8, 2010, 1:42 pm

Thank you, Luisa.

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Monday March 8, 2010, 2:11 pm

We're not at the point where we can openly chide others who believe as we do, Luisa. We must support each other -- in word and deed.

. (0)
Monday March 8, 2010, 2:21 pm
THE US created a nightmare for itself by offering a bounty for every "terrorist" handed over by the Afghans, Pakistanis and anybody else. Cheney the Devil Incarnate could then point to Gitmo, Bagram, etc and say "Look how many terrorists we've rounded up!". Of course for the Afghans it was a great way of settling scores, disposing of rivals, and raising some cash on the side. Now the chickens are coming home to roost. Those they have tortured they can't let free because they'll testify, there is no case against the rest, and so the prisons stay open and these people are held indefinitely. And people claim Cheney and co are intelligent, 'fer Christs's Sake! In the face of all the evidence to the contrary, Cheney keeps repeating that "torture works". He can't do otherwise, since he initiated it. If there were ever a figure around whom a fascist junta would coalesce, it would have to be him. Certainly the PNAC crowd would have fallen in behind him, goose-stepping in their shiny jackboots. Remember how many Nazis there were marching through America's cities in support of Hitler prior to WW2? OK None of us do, but there were tens of thousands of them.

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Monday March 8, 2010, 2:25 pm

Vindiboy, Your responses are irrational.

Please remember the realistic circumstances. I will not support a response that is irrational.

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Monday March 8, 2010, 2:26 pm

Sounds like irrational rhetoric.

Good for your ego -- but unrealistic for respondents.

. (0)
Monday March 8, 2010, 2:49 pm
How so, Just Carole? I'm more than open to criticism, but "irrational' encompasses a world of hurt.

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Monday March 8, 2010, 2:55 pm

Happy to oblige.

"THE US created a nightmare for itself by offering a bounty for every "terrorist" handed over by the Afghans, Pakistanis and anybody else."

[In the first place, please replace "THE US" with the government arm that actually issued that "bounty." As I, as a U.S. citizen, had never heard of it -- nor did I sanction it.]

The rest (in my humble opinion) is a bunch of cliche' ridden hot points.

Please speak in the voice of a common person. Otherwise, you will be mistaken for a robotic -- "rhetoric repeater."

I want to believe that you're real. (No matter how much your presentation makes you look otherwise.)

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Monday March 8, 2010, 3:01 pm

Just to clarify, my ancestors welcomed the boat these greedy warmongers arrived in.

(Much to their dismay.)

Speak clearly.

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Monday March 8, 2010, 3:08 pm

If you wish you challenge a US government edict, expect to be more precise.

(A hard lesson, well learned.)

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Monday March 8, 2010, 3:08 pm

You have promise, but you must have facts.

. (0)
Monday March 8, 2010, 3:09 pm
Ouch!! Just Carole. I write as I speak. I think it's understood by now that THE US is a generic term applying to the government of the United States. As a democracy of course that spills over onto every American citizen, since the government is acting in your name. I have known about the bounty system for years. Sorry you haven't. I don't know the exact department, but since it'll be a part of the government, that ends up under "THE US", and the people. I don't know what "cliche-ridden hot points" are. Perhaps you could help and indicate which are hot and which are points.

I am a common person. So common in speech and manners that my betters shun me. I'm easily lost in a crowd. The rhetoric I'm repeating can only be my own. I hope nobody mistakes me for a robot. I think I'm real, but in the world of metaphysics anything is possible.

Do you have any factual objection to what I have written, or is it just the way it is written that bothers you?

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Monday March 8, 2010, 3:10 pm

Oh, and that should have read: "If you wish TO challenge . . ."

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Monday March 8, 2010, 3:11 pm

I have a factual objection to ANY challenge given on a factual basis.

I asked for YOUR proof. (I did not make the statement.)

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Monday March 8, 2010, 3:15 pm

I will stand for any right denied a citizen . . . but I will not do so based on unsustainable statements.

This is NOT a game. If you make a statement -- PROVE IT!

. (0)
Monday March 8, 2010, 3:16 pm
If you read the article that our moderator has based this group on, you will see ample references to kidnapping to fill the prisons and the bounty system. Take it up with Gordon Duff, the author of the piece. What else do you object to, apart from my style, which is my own, and therefore a part of my person, and not something you have a right to seek to change.

chris b (2474)
Monday March 8, 2010, 3:16 pm

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Monday March 8, 2010, 3:18 pm

Gordon Huff is one of my favorite authors, from one of my favorite sites. (In fact, I was probably one of the first to site his works.)

I merely asked YOU to site the proof.


Carole Sarcinello (338)
Monday March 8, 2010, 3:21 pm

If you state an emphatic point, be prepared to defend your accusations with proof.

(And, if you cannot prove your point, I question whether you truly digested the article.)

. (0)
Monday March 8, 2010, 3:22 pm
I'm not sure what relevance your ancestors have in this debate, but I can honestly say that the original occupiers of North America made a great mistake when they welcomed the white people to these shores and sustained them through their first winter. With hindsight they should have turned their boats around and sent them back, but it was not in their culture to be so inhospitable. The rest is a bloody history of genocide, destruction of nature, slavery and environmental degradation. But we both digress.

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Monday March 8, 2010, 3:25 pm

I probably shouldn't have even brought that up.

I don't apologize for my ancestors, nor their naivete, and I apologize for introducing the subject.

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Monday March 8, 2010, 3:31 pm

I would like to know why more citizens do NOT object to their "representatives" (once elected) blatantly choose to misrepresent their constituents . . .

And further, why their constituents ACCEPT THAT.

. (0)
Monday March 8, 2010, 3:46 pm
But what POINT???? Samuel Beckett could have had this conversation. It is surreal. If it is the 'nightmare' characterization, then it must be for Obama. He's got all these innocent people stored away and he can't release them because they'll tell how they were tortured. I'd call that a nightmare. Is that your problem?

"If you didn’t know before, this is what all the secret “torture memos” were all about, not real terrorists, but innocent people we “bought” as though we were slave runners of old." If I remember rightly the bounty was $50,000 per person.

From Associated Press:
"Bounties ranged from $3,000 to $25,000, the detainees testified during military tribunals, according to transcripts the U.S. government gave The Associated Press to comply with a Freedom of Information lawsuit."

"It's obvious. They knew Americans were looking for Arabs, so they captured Arabs and sold them — just like someone catches a fish and sells it."

"When I was in jail, they said I needed to pay them money and if I didn't pay them, they'd make up wrong accusations about me and sell me to the Americans and I'd definitely go to Cuba," he told the tribunal. "After that I was held for two months and 20 days in their detention, so they could make wrong accusations about me and my (censored), so they could sell us to you."

"Another prisoner said he was on his way to Germany in 2001 when he was captured and sold for "a briefcase full of money" then flown to Afghanistan before being sent to Guantanamo."

"It's obvious. They knew Americans were looking for Arabs, so they captured Arabs and sold them — just like someone catches a fish and sells it," he said. The detainee said he was seized by "mafia" operatives somewhere in Europe and sold to Americans because he was in the wrong place at the wrong time — an Arab in a foreign country."

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Monday March 8, 2010, 3:49 pm
Oh, puleez, any American who still thinks Obama is a saviour deserves to be deluded!

And if I appear to be a deluded American, see an optometrist.


Yvonne White (229)
Monday March 8, 2010, 3:55 pm
"It just beats me how the New York court and jury returned a guilty verdict despite Aafia’s first person account of her frame-up and subsequent persecution and her physical condition. She had to be brought on a wheel chair into the court and most of the time she was in no condition and shape to understand what was going on around her."
THIS is why they don't want Terrorists tried in NYC! She was NOT tried for Masterminding Anything - but was tried for Assault (that's a Life sentence?) & THAT didn't get any Press.. But a Big Time High Profile Trial would Certainly get MORE (and Possibly Smarter) Press Attention!

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Monday March 8, 2010, 3:56 pm

Do you not realize I KNOW that these "terrorists" are victims?

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Monday March 8, 2010, 3:58 pm

America has now championed "kangaroo courts."

They don't stand a snowball's chance in hell.

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Monday March 8, 2010, 3:59 pm

This is NOT the country the propaganda tells you it is.

We have become the United States of Corporations.

. (0)
Monday March 8, 2010, 4:00 pm
The reason people are apathetic and disengaged in a democracy is worth a book. It's to do with disempowering them, distracting them, falsely reassuring them, threatening them, exploiting their fears and vulnerabilities, undermining their confidence and feeling of involvement......the list goes on. The question is "What are YOU going to do about it, now that you know? Phone or write to your Representative? Write a letter for publication in your local paper? Join a group dedicated to exposing and ending the practice (which I'm assured still goes on)?

If you don't, then you can answer your own question yourself. I'm not trying to be unkind. I'm trying to challenge people into action.

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Monday March 8, 2010, 4:02 pm

Then ST(P it.

I do so daily. (and I don't bear the avatar of one of the most heinous leaders of this country.)

Yvonne White (229)
Monday March 8, 2010, 4:04 pm
Is it just me - or is everyone a tad touchy today? Do we all agree Bounties were wrong when put on Indian scalps on the frontier in America & still wrong today when purchasing Arabs for torture..:(

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Monday March 8, 2010, 4:08 pm

And? They were wrong in ALL accounts.

Any time we call for blood, we are doing the bidding of the elites.

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Monday March 8, 2010, 4:10 pm

(It's never their, or their compatriots' blood, is it?)

So, those who take lives are still serving their masters.

. (0)
Monday March 8, 2010, 4:15 pm
OK Carole. I give in. I'm delighted you're involved and engaged. I mean you no harm. I think the world of you.

BtW the avatar is Bush as Caligula.

Yvonne, the courts are nothing more than a reflection of the power relationship in society. Look at the tussle for Supreme Court nominees. The Supreme Court is the final line of defence for the concentration of power in the hands of the corporate elite. Who made the corporation a person in the first place? Who has given them carte blanche to spend unlimited funds on political campaigns? Judges! We tend to be overawed by the robes and ritual, but at its core it is nothing more than transmutation of corporate power into judicial power that a policeman can be sent to enforce.

Surely she will appeal. I must get up to speed with the details of this case.

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Monday March 8, 2010, 4:17 pm

This would probably make it easier to understand why "contract killers" (mercenaries), (such as Blackwater, or XE) were so acceptable, eh?

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Monday March 8, 2010, 4:19 pm

Thanks for the explanation, Vindiboy . . . but I find even the vision of Dubya to be repulsive (regardless of the intent.)

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Monday March 8, 2010, 4:24 pm

(Could you possibly consider George Clooney???? hehehehe)

Just joshin'.

. (0)
Monday March 8, 2010, 4:24 pm
I agree that bounties are wrong. For any purpose, including that odious mess Dog the Bounty Hunter.

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Monday March 8, 2010, 4:53 pm

I'm sorry if I was too hard on you, Vindiboy.

(I have so few excuses for this carnage.)

. (0)
Monday March 8, 2010, 4:56 pm
In a society which worships money everything has it's price,including human life. Blackwater is symptomatic of privatizing every aspect of a modern society, including making war. It has a certain logic. Private enterprise should fight for private enterprise. This is already well advanced inmost societies. In the UK private security guards wear uniforms which are hard to distinguish from police uniforms. There are more private security guards than police officers in most countries.

Now I know where Dr Siddiqui is being held, does anyone have addresses of NY officials to e-mail or write to.?

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Monday March 8, 2010, 4:57 pm

Straying a bit here . . . but daily, I read gut-wrenching stories of puppies abandoned in trash bins. These stories go immediately to front page, with over 100 note-its in hours.


Carole Sarcinello (338)
Monday March 8, 2010, 4:58 pm

I would not involve myself in having this corrupt government detain even the worst alleged culprit.

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Monday March 8, 2010, 5:07 pm

O.k. maybe one or two . . . hehehehe!

. (0)
Monday March 8, 2010, 5:13 pm
This is a link to a page which advises what action to take: Sorry I haven't figured out how to embed it properly.

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Monday March 8, 2010, 5:16 pm

. (0)
Monday March 8, 2010, 5:33 pm
Why, thank you Just Carole. How sweet of you to do it for me.

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Monday March 8, 2010, 5:33 pm

No problem, Dubya!

Erin R (181)
Monday March 8, 2010, 5:52 pm
Noted. This is a very sad situation.

Luisa F (144)
Monday March 8, 2010, 6:08 pm
Thanjk for noting Erin.

I will be in touch with a petition on behalf of Dr. Aafia. I've been away for a bit. Right now I will review what has been posted and take it from there. Again. I appreciate your noting the article.

Katz R (54)
Monday March 8, 2010, 8:26 pm
I know of this womans case and believe she was totally innocent of the charges as for attackin servicemen she might have been trying to defend herself but doubt the gun part. she has been tortured refused adequate medical care probably raped and destroyued mentally as well as physically it is obscene. there have been numerous people grabbed off the street and labeled terrorists in hopes that they could be tortured into giving a name of anyone else in Iraq as well as Afghanistan, this is beyond dispicable

Luisa F (144)
Tuesday March 9, 2010, 2:16 am
Kathleen, thank your for your thoughtful post and background description of what is going on in Afthanistan today. As you say, this is beyond despicable.

The discussion went off on the wrong track as some people who posted went off on their own agenda when this story is about Dr. Aafia. I hope today we can bring it back for a thoughtful discussion and possibilities of what we, as a group can do in support of Dr. Aafia. And, by that I don't mean the link provided by myself, repeated by Vindyboy and reposted again by Just Carole.

Thank you Kathleen.

Luisa F (144)
Tuesday March 9, 2010, 2:20 am
Yvonne wrote:
THIS is why they don't want Terrorists tried in NYC! She was NOT tried for Masterminding Anything - but was tried for Assault (that's a Life sentence?

Exacty Yvonne...

Luisa F (144)
Tuesday March 9, 2010, 2:25 am
Yvonne wrote:

Is it just me - or is everyone a tad touchy today? Do we all agree Bounties were wrong when put on Indian scalps on the frontier in America & still wrong today when purchasing Arabs for torture..:(

Well Yvonne, I just hope today is a better day and we can stay on subject.

I certainly hope this story has not been so derailed from it's original intent, which is about Dr. Aafia.

Marty H (119)
Tuesday March 9, 2010, 2:38 am
Thanks Luisa and noted! I would have sent many of you stars but apparently have admired your comments elsewhere and already sent you stars within the last week!

Abdessalam Diab (145)
Tuesday March 9, 2010, 4:13 am
Noted. Thank you luisa.This was just posted on time. Very sad. SHAME.

Luisa F (144)
Tuesday March 9, 2010, 4:40 am
Thank you Marty and Abdessalam for noting.

. (0)
Tuesday March 9, 2010, 8:08 am
Thannnxxx for sharing this devastating news, how dreadful that they treat her like this and keep her in these atrocious conditions.. this is a crime against humanity and should never have happened.. they should be doing something about this... wish I could do more for her

Luisa F (144)
Tuesday March 9, 2010, 8:16 am
You're welcome Chaz...

Hopefully we will be able to do something as a a group. You will hear from me.

Thanks for reading and commenting on the story Chaz. By doing so, you give me a feel for how you feel about the story and the possibilities for doing something.

You will hear from me. Thanks.

Zahra Pilavdzic (274)
Tuesday March 9, 2010, 10:03 am
Luisa you should start a group here at Care2. I know there are some on Facebook, but nothing here that I've seen. I can't believe some of these prison camps haven't been shut down.

Luisa F (144)
Tuesday March 9, 2010, 10:17 am
Good idea Zahra. I have this story and the other OP"s I post on my Facebook wall and I get a lot of hits and comments too. There is quite a difference in the readers I have on Facebook than here. A lot of my Facebook pals are people I knew in graduate school and they have friends who read the story.

Amazingly some of these people haven't a clue.

Simon Wood (207)
Wednesday March 10, 2010, 6:37 am
Free all prisoners in the torture prisons that the USA maintains in Afghanistan!!!

Luisa F (144)
Wednesday March 10, 2010, 6:48 am
Simon, the US maintains secret prisons in Afghanistan and throughout Europe. Dr. Aafia was kept in a secret prison in Afghanistan for five years. For five years no one knew where she was, not even her family. As to the two children missing no one knows or has any idea where they are or if they are even alive.

Ellinor S (41)
Thursday March 11, 2010, 9:15 am
thank you

Luisa F (144)
Thursday March 11, 2010, 9:39 am
Glad you read the story Ellinor. Thanks.

Elderberry T (201)
Saturday March 13, 2010, 4:27 am
Can't thank you enough Luisa for picking this one up, I have posted and followed Aafia's hellish story of injustice for some years now. We must get her out of there alive.

Gulshan R. (0)
Friday November 18, 2011, 11:22 pm
May Allah be With You! aameen
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