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Syria: Islamists Force Christians to Submit to Islam or Die, According to Quranic Law

World  (tags: Syria, Islamists, Qur'an, Jizya, Christians, Churches, Intolerance, humanrights, conflict, 'CIVILLIBERTIES!', middle-east, politics, terrorism, violence, death, freedoms )

- 1845 days ago -
Christians were given three options: convert to Islam; remain Christian but pledge submission to Islam; or "face the sword." They opted for the second of those choices, known as dhimmitude & pay non-Muslim tax, remove crosses & no public worship etc .


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Jay S (116)
Friday February 28, 2014, 11:37 am
Christian leaders in the northern Syrian city of Raqqa, captured by an organization formerly affiliated with al-Qaeda, have signed a submission document this week banning them from practicing Christianity in public in return for protection by their Islamist rulers.

The document, dated Sunday and disseminated through Islamist Twitter accounts, states that the Christian community in the province of Raqqa, captured last March by the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIS), was recently given three options: to convert to Islam; to remain Christian but pledge submission to Islam; or to “face the sword.” They opted for the second of those choices, known as dhimmitude.

Earlier this month, al-Qaeda’s central command distanced itself from ISIS, saying it was “not a branch of al-Qaeda.”

The authenticity of the document, displaying the stamp of al-Qaeda, could not be independently verified. The signatures of 20 Christian leaders at the bottom of the document said to have been party to the agreement were blotted out, ostensibly at their own request.

According to classic Islamic law, Christians and Jews living under Muslim sovereignty must pay a tax known as jizya in return for the Muslim ruler’s protection, known as dhimma.

The Christians of Raqqa chose to sign the dhimma treaty over war, the document stated, receiving a commitment by local ISIS commander Ibrahim Al-Badri, also known as Abu Bakr Al-Baghdadi, not to be subjected to physical harm or religious targeting.

In return, the Christians agreed to a list of conditions: to abstain from renovating churches or monasteries in Raqqa; not to display crosses or religious symbols in public or use loudspeakers in prayer; not to read scripture indoors loud enough for Muslims standing outside to hear; not to undertake subversive actions against Muslims; not to carry out any religious ceremonies outside the church; not to prevent any Christian wishing to convert to Islam from doing so; to respect Islam and Muslims and say nothing offensive about them; to pay the jizya tax worth four golden dinars for the rich, two for the average, and one for the poor, twice annually, for each adult Christian; to refrain from drinking alcohol in public; and to dress modestly.

“If they adhere to these conditions, they will be close to God and receive the protection of Mohammed his prophet … none of their religious rights will be detracted nor will a priest or monk be wronged,” the document ended. “But if they disobey any of the conditions, they are no longer protected and ISIS can treat them in a hostile and warlike fashion.”

ISIS has previously banned the sale of cigarettes in Raqqa and enforced the veil for women in public. Last week, the Daily Star Lebanon reported, it changed the official weekend in the province to Thursday and Friday from Friday and Saturday, as practiced in “faithless countries.”

Carola May (20)
Friday February 28, 2014, 11:49 am
I read in another article about this that the Islamists then removed the crosses from churches. This is what Islam did for 1400 years of conquest, mass murder and repression of non-Muslims across the Muslim occupied world.

Where is the outrage in the mainstream media, from Obama and other western leaders and even from so-called Christian leaders here in the West over this ethnic cleansing and the genocide against all non-Muslims across the Muslim occupied lands from Northern Nigeria to Gaza to Turkey to Indonesia??? Their silence condemns them all.

“. . . slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush. . .” Qur’an 9:5 THE VERSE OF THE SWORD ABROGATES SOME 113 EARLIER VERSES

“Fight them, Allah will punish them by your hands and bring them to disgrace, and assist you against them and heal the hearts of a believing people. “ Qur’an 9:14

“Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Messenger have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax (Jizya, non-Muslim heavy tax) in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection(humiliation). “ Qur’an 9:29

“He it is Who sent His Messenger with guidance and the religion of truth [Islam], that He might cause it to prevail over all religions, though the polytheists may be averse.” Qur’an 9:33

Tina Magaard is a linguist who got her Ph.D. in Intercultural Communication from the Sorbonne, and did a three-year study of the original texts of the world's ten largest religions. One of her findings was that Islam's core texts are the most aggressive against other groups.

Jay S (116)
Friday February 28, 2014, 12:16 pm
It is important to note that under the Assad's rule, Christians, and other religious minorities, were treated well and had more freedom than in other Muslim-ruled lands since they are members of an ancient religious sect, the Alawites, who claim to be quasi-Muslim, but aren't, in order to stave off the persecution by Islam they've suffered for centuries.

This is only one of many, too many, such events happening in Syria, and throughout the Muslim ruled world - the ethnic cleansing of all non-Muslims. It is horrific but, you are right Carola, where is Obama, the media, church leaders, politicians, etc etc. To remain silent to genocide is to be guilty of it.

Michael M (60)
Friday February 28, 2014, 12:49 pm
The Islamic Law to which Rob & J refer, also requires that NON christians etc must either convert to Islam or die. They don't get the taxation option.

It is also a capital (death) offense to quit being Islamic.

I do not believe that continuing war between christians and islamists is of value, as both are coercive monsters, as seeen by hristian attempts to take over US state and federal govt and enact laws which THEY deem in line with their beliefs and desires.

Jennifer Ward (40)
Friday February 28, 2014, 1:07 pm
As an Anthroposophist I consider all religions rather shallow and prone to manipulation by the power hungry. Christianity is the best of a bad lot as it preaches kindness and forgiveness which has a calming effect. Unfortunately, this admirable quality has been exploited to the point that people are now expected to tolerate the intolerable.

Beth S (330)
Friday February 28, 2014, 1:11 pm

We need to get the Christians out of Islamic countries. This is intolerable.

Thanks, R & J, for the informative, sad and very frightening article.

Stephen Brian (23)
Friday February 28, 2014, 1:17 pm
the force that took Raqqa, ISIS, is too extreme even for the al Qaeda forces in the area.

The restrictions, including those against maintenance of churches, are exactly in line with an objective of assimilation over generations.

. (0)
Friday February 28, 2014, 2:10 pm
Posted the imposibility of this situation on Facebook.

Friday February 28, 2014, 2:28 pm
Michael M. I am somewhat confused by your spelling and grammar. It seems English is not your mother tongue. From what I can decipher you talk of a strange group you call "hristian" who are trying to take over the US state - amazing stuff! Why is it not in the news and have they crashed any planes into big buildings?

Gene Jacobson (286)
Friday February 28, 2014, 3:12 pm
Jackazzes. This is by far not the only time I've heard this. It has happened in every Islamic country, recently in Africa, even to an extent in Egypt. That such as these rule any country is an abomination and so are they.

Gene Jacobson (286)
Friday February 28, 2014, 3:21 pm
Bernard. Word games? Really? Perhaps you have not noticed the Christian Taliban at work in our nation's capitol these past 6 years? Or the preceding 8? Or have not read of their takeover of many governor's mansions and state legislatures in 2010? Where they have been trying as hard as they can to get all manner of religious based legislation enacted, even though they always call it something else. The entire "war on women" escaped your notice? As well as the fact that it is driven by the far religious right? Did you miss the story here the other day where some silly fool who is trying to sell a new book said in a televised interview that he believes the bible will be outlawed in this country? Or the fellow, I forget who there are so many, who said, oh wait it was Ted Cruz, who claimed the constitution was taken from the bible and based on it? That our founding fathers didn't really mean it when they established the first amendment to that constitution, nor have you read the comments of some of those founding fathers like Ben Franklin and Thomas Jefferson who considered religion a backwoods evil even then? We are a secular nation by design. Which is a good thing because if we were not, which branch or offshoot of any given Christian denomination would be writing our laws? Lutherans? Catholics? Presbyterians? Tent preachers? Pat Robertson? A secular government is the only way free people can be free to practice whatever superstition they wish without fear of recourse, unless they try to bring it into our government. Which is the major cause of the monster gridlock that is our Congress right now. I think you'd give Michael the benefit of doubt, since you obviously got his drift. I understood what he meant just fine. And I agree with him.

Stan B (123)
Friday February 28, 2014, 3:57 pm
The three choices offered epitomise the intolerant nature of Islam. Just imagine their reaction if they were offered the same three choices.
Perhaps we should give it a try.

Giana Peranio - Paz (398)
Friday February 28, 2014, 9:08 pm
This is not new, all the atrocities committed by the extreme Islam are inconcievable! It makes you feel so helpless and doesn't help me to stop posting hateful comments on the Muslims. Thanks Rob and Jay.

Rahman Qureshi (76)
Friday February 28, 2014, 11:10 pm
The usual response from Muslims and non-Muslim apologists of Islam is:

"There are extremists in all religions."

Notice there is hardly any condemnation of the copious bigotry, intolerance and hatred of non-Muslims by pious Muslims before rushing to commit the tu quoque fallacy of trying to absolve Islam by saying others do the same thing.

That crowd should 100% consent to all non-Muslims treating Muslims the same way when non-Muslims are dominant. But the Muslim apologist double-standard would not allow that. It is excused six ways from Sunday for Muslims to do whatever they want to non-Muslims, but let a non-Muslim even say something about the hijab, for instance, and only then the world goes crazy about "intolerance, racism, bigotry, etc." This diseased mentality is perfectly aligned with Islam's one way system in which everyone must accommodate Islam and Muslims, and never the other way around. Basically, Muslims get to do anything they want and the rest of us are expected to shut up and take it. Thankfully, there are wonderful people out there like Rob and J who posted this important article to let others know what Muslim apologists don't want known. Also thanks to all others who draw attention to this story.

The jizya, based on Sura 9:28-29, is extortion / protection money. This is part of the traditional forms of Muslim income. Based on Muhammad, the other forms of Muslim income are theft, slavery, prostitution. These 4 forms of unearned income are how Muhammad and his Muslims gained in wealth and power.

The jizya terms of humiliation are based on the Qur'an (like Ibn Kathir on Sura 5:51) and the Pact of Umar, the second "rightly-guided" Caliph.

Islam represents the number one disease on our planet. It infects Muslims and has deleterious effects on the rest of us.

Carol Dreeszen (346)
Saturday March 1, 2014, 2:42 am
Same stuff.......different day! I agree Beth!! There is no good outcome with these barbarians!

Saturday March 1, 2014, 3:21 am
Gene Jacobson : Firstly I would describe myself as a died-in-the-wool anti-ideologist given the murder and mayhem triggered on planet Earth by the few who fervently believe they have the answer to everything past present and future. Gene so long as the US Constitution remains intact and not messed with (Keep a close watch on your incumbent president and his gang!) the special needs of various vocal religious groups will remain wishes and no more. Surprisingly though, the undercover encroachment of ḥalāl and tacit (at the moment) inroads of Sharia شريعة law in parts of the USA is for some reason largely ignored by the media and the masses and appears to be given the nod by the present US rulers.

Personally I have seen the harm in many parts of the world that religious zealots can inflict upon societies but I have to say that in my experience (perhaps not yours) over the last 2 decades the greatest amount of sheer mayhem mass murder and downright intimidation is largely carried out by one particular religion and that is without doubt Islam. I would like to add that in my opinion, pointing fingers at centuries old national sins of one group to justify today’s sins of another is a little futile and childish unless one can afford a time machine. Bearing this in mind, perhaps you have other sources but so far in the last 50 years I have seen no reports of Christian zealot’s suicide bombing or crashing passenger aircraft into tower blocks and government buildings neither have I heard of them murdering critics of their religion or placing the equivalent of “fatwas” upon their heads. Again dealing with the subject of this discussion please enlighten me upon those Christian majority countries (I know of no Western country claiming to have a Christian government in its constitution) where this type of typical Dhimmitude situation has been created by Christians against Muslims. The Christian religion (a big chunk of it) experienced a reformation and the result of that was a separation of State and Religion but again in this century evidence indicates that (other than Turkey) any effort in a Muslim community or country to separate state from Islam is met with extreme violence evidenced right now in the Middle East.

As Rahman points out we see the usual evidence of “Discrimination by reduced expectation” in action amongst commentators who seek to excuse evil acts by virtue of the background, religion and race of the perpetrator(s) a sort of textual apartheid.

Past Member (0)
Saturday March 1, 2014, 4:42 am
Agreed Stan and Giana.

Past Member (0)
Saturday March 1, 2014, 4:43 am
Tks Rob and Jay.

. (0)
Saturday March 1, 2014, 5:26 am
This is some messed up stuff.

Gene Jacobson (286)
Saturday March 1, 2014, 5:33 am
Bernard? "The Christian religion (a big chunk of it) experienced a reformation and the result of that was a separation of State and Religion but again in this century evidence indicates that (other than Turkey) any effort in a Muslim community or country to separate state from Islam is met with extreme violence evidenced right now in the Middle East."

If you've read anything else I have written here, you would know that I have stated many times, and completely believe, that Islam is the greatest danger in our world today. Other religions are as extreme in their ideology but for the occasional abortion clinic bombing or provider murder, others are not violent in the way Islam is. Not even the Westboro hate group. Islam is a nightmare not only for Christians caught in it but reporters, travelers and most of all women. Here our Christian Taliban is waging war against them but it is not doing so by stoning them, though given the tone of some things I have read, I believe there are some who might like that idea. Like the fool on the story on other side of this site, Sessions of Utah who blames women for "blindsiding" men with divorce demands and holds them accountable for virtually all broken marriages.

"Our" and I say that loosely because I adhere to no religion though I was raised Lutheran, "side" of the religious quagmire was as violent and deadly as Islam, many, many centuries ago. There are moderate Muslims but we don't hear much from them, no outcry against the savagery of their extremists. I abhor CAIR precisely because of this, they are quick to jump on the tiniest of "insults" to Islam but silent on the atrocities committed by its extremists. I think it the responsibility of moderate Muslims to take back their religion and put the extremists out of business. I don't particularly care how they do that, I just want it done. My bone with you was that I don't believe Michael was excusing Islam, only pointing out that our fingers are not exactly clean, we have blood on our hands too, of innocents through our drone attacks. Religion is the greatest evil ever perpetrated against humanity, BY humanity, a few old men who wanted power and the ability to control other people through fear. Christianity and Islam were born of the same father. Not mother, neither has any respect for women at all, and little for men. To sit idly by while atrocities are committed is guilt by association, he who is silent is deemed to consent. CAIR should be outlawed unless we also have a CALR for lutherans, CACR for Catholics, CAPB for Presbyterians, one for every branch of every religion. Which would be ridiculous. As is having one for Islam. They intend here what they intend everywhere, enter quietly, propagate, get noisy as their numbers grow, and then violent when they have the numbers to do so - Islam is a Trojan Horse in every country that has even one Muslim in it. I wasn't objecting to the article nor the commentary here, only your ad hominem attack on Michael. I think sticking to the point important and I still think that point is defending against Islam, not fighting with each other over semantics.

Jordan G (37)
Saturday March 1, 2014, 5:44 am
How to go from Rumi to this?

berny p (23)
Saturday March 1, 2014, 5:58 am

The three choices offered epitomise the intolerant nature of Islam.

Just imagine their reaction if they were offered the same three choices.
Perhaps we should give it a try.


Ruth Ann W (198)
Saturday March 1, 2014, 5:58 am
It is a shame to see the engendering of hate/misunderstanding/dissension continue here. Vitriol and rhetoric get us nowhere, and why should Christians, or anyone be forced to leave their homes? We can only change one person, ourselves. No, that is simplistic but we must start somewhere, right? There are no easy answers here. Anger, hate are not and will not be a part of the formula, ever.

Past Member (0)
Saturday March 1, 2014, 6:04 am
Interesting behaviors. The big joke is on all religioons under the NWO One World, One Corprate government, fascism, One World Religion of Pantheism, or die according to the agenda laid out by George Bush himself and others, through documents, insider leaks.
Gaia ( Earth Monther) and nature for an old injun like me but the rest of the peoples on this rock are gonna have a tough walk soon, maybe a couple decades, maybe a few years, European Union Agreements are flowing, deals made, contracts signed..
I deleted the disertation. :) Lucky people..:)

Debra Tate (17)
Saturday March 1, 2014, 6:07 am
This is UNACCEPTABLE! May the AQ and the MB be wiped off the face of the earth!

Saturday March 1, 2014, 9:28 am
And who pusblished this article? Oh, "Times of Israel", of course, such an objective newspaper...
Let's face it, christians kill muslims, muslims kill christians, jews kill muslims and vice versa, they all want to force their so called values down the throats of the "non-believers". If not voluntarily then by force.
It is a sad, sad world....

Lindsay Kemp (6)
Saturday March 1, 2014, 9:43 am
This is an unacceptable for anyone to treat anyone else!

No, Michelle, not all people of faith want to force their values down the throats of others; many want to live in peace and mutual respect of each other, and to work together for their communities. There is a lot of multi faith work going on in a lot of areas.

P. L. Neola (21)
Saturday March 1, 2014, 9:51 am
I noted and shared on Facebook! I sent a Green Star to Rob and Jay! I hope to come back to read everyone’s comments after work!

The Holy Bible's Book of Revelations is playing itself out. Soon it will be our--all of Western Society's--turn to make this detrimental decision. Indonesia and most of Southeast Asia suffered and are still suffering through this!!! The United States is not too large for forced submission to unholy Islam!

. (0)
Saturday March 1, 2014, 10:03 am
You expected anything less from extremist zealots?

Saturday March 1, 2014, 10:36 am
Lindsay, I am referring to the extremists that can be found in any religion: Christian, Islam, Judaism, to name a few.

P. L. Neola (21)
Saturday March 1, 2014, 11:07 am
Revelation 6:9-11
King James Version (KJV)
Fifth Seal: The Cry of the Martyrs
9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain [beheaded in some translations] for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
10 and they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellow servants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

Revelation 6:9-11
New King James Version (NKJV)
Fifth Seal: The Cry of the Martyrs
9 When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain [beheaded in some translations] for the word of God and for the testimony which they held.
10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?”
11 Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed.

Terry King (113)
Saturday March 1, 2014, 12:25 pm
I, personally have no dog in this fight... I consider Christianity and Islam to be equally abhorrent. More truly horrible things have been done in the name of religion than any other cause. Te world would be a far better place if all religions were banned!

Leanne B (46)
Saturday March 1, 2014, 12:39 pm
Religion and greed have poisoned this planet.

Roger G (148)
Saturday March 1, 2014, 12:55 pm
noted, thanks

Birgit W (160)
Saturday March 1, 2014, 1:38 pm
All religions should be banned. It is time to stop the crazy brainwashing of people. Show compassion and love to our fellow human beings. This is what is important in life.

Madhu Pillai (22)
Saturday March 1, 2014, 2:06 pm
Thanks Rob and Jay, except for Judaism, the two other Abrahamic religions Christianity and Islam have caused enough blood shed through out history, indulged in forceful conversion. The god of Abrahamic religion is fearsome, blood thirty one seeking vengeance if his commandment are disobeyed, eternal damnation is the result.
The modern day scourge is Islam, seems there is no containing it.

Nelson Baker (0)
Saturday March 1, 2014, 2:38 pm
They are not religious, they are barbarians.

Jay S (116)
Saturday March 1, 2014, 2:40 pm
Well, there is a lot of classifying Christ's teachings as being equal to Mohammed's, and only those who know nothing of either would be so bold to assert such nonsense.

Mohammed actually taught, and his fire-breathing deity commanded, hate, submission, enslavement, mass murder, forced conversions, violence, intolerance and hatred of all who don't follow their barbaric 'religion'.

Jesus taught exactly the opposite of everything that Mohammed did. He taught only love of all, forgiveness and tolerance. The only people he castigated were the very people who are using his name now to teach and practice hate and intolerance. Don't blame him.

This is a big difference - Islam does teach these things, true Christianity - that is what Jesus himself taught in the Gospels - does not. It's that simple. Islam has been committing genocide against all non-muslims, and each other, for 1400 years.

The noted historian Will Durant called Islam's conquest of India, said in his "Story of Civilization": "The Mohammedan conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious thing whose delicate complex of order and liberty, culture and peace may at any time be overthrown by barbarians invading from without or multiplying from within."
Over 80 million Indians were slaughtered by the Muslim invasion and conquest, and Buddhism was virtually destroyed in its birthplace. 80 MILLION NON-MUSLIMS SLAUGHTERED!!!

But today to point out the hate teachings in Islam's holy book, is to be called a 'hater'. How ironic. The same thing was said about the few who spoke out against Hitler and his Nazis, if you recall. Churchill was one of them the media, politicians and church leaders condemned for being a bigot. He was right, they were wrong then, and are wrong again.

Perhaps some of you who are comparing the modern so-called 'Christians' with true-believing, practicing Muslims could tell us where these loonie non-Christians are committing mass murder, and ethnic cleansing against Muslims, or anyone. That would make headlines which the Muslim genocide of non-Muslims does not make.

and where is Obama or the rest of the western leaders, media etc? Praising and funding these very 'rebels' who are murdering and driving out tens of thousands of non-Muslims. What a world.

And, no, we are not Christians, nor do we believe in any religion, but we do admire the teachings of Jesus and of Gautama, the Buddha, who taught things that could make the world a paradise IF anyone ever bothered to heed them.

Carol Dreeszen (346)
Saturday March 1, 2014, 2:55 pm
I just read an article today where the Christian Syrians signed something stating they gave into Islam!! :-( VERY sad!!!

Rahman Qureshi (76)
Saturday March 1, 2014, 3:20 pm
Atheist regimes murdered 160 million just in the last century. I guess those who bash religion as a curse are fine with what non-religion does.

Between Islam and Atheism, oceans of blood have been shed. 270+ million lives from Islam, and counting, and 160 million lives from Atheism just in the last century. Both Darwinian "survival of the fittest / advanced race" theory and Islam motivated Hitler to commit the Holocaust.

Jesus and Moses taught the value of life. Islam emulates death. Atheism teaches no value to life since we are all random chance who came from ooze in a meaningless universe. While there are certainly Atheists who are moral people, Atheism itself demands no morality. The Biblical message of life being valuable because we were made by an eternal God demands morality because God is the standard of morality. Christians who violate that sin. But Atheism offers no absolute standard of morality, only relative.

Here are some quotes of interest to those who bash Christianity in favor of no religion:

"A man who has no assured and ever present belief in the existence of a personal God or of a future existence with retribution and reward, can have for his rule of life, as far as I can see, only to follow those impulses and instincts which are the strongest or which seem to him to be the best ones." - Charles Darwin, autobiography p.94

"At some future period, not very distant as measured by centuries, the civilised races of man will almost certainly exterminate, and replace, the savage races throughout the world. At the same time the anthropomorphous apes, as Professor Schaaffhausen has remarked, will no doubt be exterminated. The break between man and his nearest allies will then be wider, for it will intervene between man in a more civilised state, as we may hope, even than the Caucasian, and some ape as low as a baboon, instead of as now between the negro or Australian and the gorilla." - Charles Darwin, the Descent of Man, p. 521

"Naturalistic evolution has clear consequences that Charles Darwin understood perfectly. 1) No gods worth having exist; 2) no life after death exists; 3) no ultimate foundation for ethics exists; 4) no ultimate meaning in life exists; and 5) human free will is nonexistent." - William Provine, 1998 Darwin Day address, University TN, Knoxville

"We are survival machines-robot vehicles blindly programmed to preserve the selfish molecules known as genes. Much as we might wish to believe otherwise, universal love and the welfare of the species as a whole are concepts that simply do not make evolutionary sense." - Richard Dawkins in his book, The Selfish Gene

"Some unfortunate humans - perhaps because they have suffered brain damage - are not rational agents. What are we to say about them? The natural conclusion, according to the doctrine we are considering, would be that their status is that of mere animals. And perhaps we should go on to conclude that they may be used as non-human animals are used - perhaps as laboratory subjects, or as food." - James Rachels, Created From Animals: The Moral Implications of Darwinism, p. 186

"Humans are no better than bacteria" - Dr. Eric R. Pianka, speech during receipt of Distinguished Scientist of the Year Award, 2006, University Texas at Austin

"Among some animal species, infant killing, appears to be a natural practice. Could it be natural for humans too, a trait inherited from our primate ancestors? Charles Darwin noted in The Descent of Man that infanticide has been "probably the most important of all checks on population growth throughout most of human history."" - Barbara Burke citing Darwin, 1974, "Infanticide", Science, Vol. 185, p.653

"Rape is evolutionary, biological, and natural...Our male ancestors became ancestors in part because they conditionally used rape." - Randy Thornhill, "A Natural History of Rape", 2001 Lecture at Simon Fraser University

"Evolutionary theory applies to rape, as it does to other areas of human affairs, on both logical and evidentiary grounds. There is no legitimate scientific reason not to apply evolutionary or ultimate hypotheses to rape." - Randy Thornhill, 2000, A Natural History of Rape, Cambridge: MIT Press

"We believe that severity, violence, slavery, danger in the street and in the heart, secrecy, stoicism, tempter's art and devilry of every kind - that everything wicked, terrible, tyrannical, predatory, and serpentine in man, serves as well for the elevation of the human species as the opposite." - Frederick Nietzsche, Beyond Good and Evil, 2007 reprint, p. 35

Hilary S (65)
Saturday March 1, 2014, 4:41 pm
perhaps it's not religion itself, but the zealotry of extremist practice tat brings the world unstuck. some people see religious adherence as being like a club you can choose to join, and if you join, you follow the rules. the key here is CHOICE. forced conversion is about what? hardly the altruistic desire to save souls. is it all about wanting to believe in some post-death experience?

meanwhile, extremist islam these days is enthusiastically carrying the baton for any religious horrors of past ages.

Terry King (113)
Saturday March 1, 2014, 4:42 pm
Rahman... Hitler was a baptized Catholic.

Patsy Olive (0)
Saturday March 1, 2014, 5:01 pm

Winn A (179)
Saturday March 1, 2014, 5:38 pm
What is this? My "religion" is better than your "religion". Come on people. We need to be tolerant, respectful of someone else's religion or non-religion. Forcing your beliefs on someone else is wrong on so many levels. Being spiritual for me is far more satisfying than "belonging" to a specific religion. I wish the fringe radical "religious" people would stop trying to shove "it" down everyone's throat.

Colleen L (3)
Saturday March 1, 2014, 6:29 pm
Again it frustrates me to read about this type of hatred crap that people can create.. Why is it??? Why don't these people do what they want and let others do what they want? Nobody should be telling me what religion I should be practicing, etc. I agree with Winn's comment 100% Thanks Rob and J

Sheila Baker (0)
Saturday March 1, 2014, 6:41 pm
So many points of view.

P. L. Neola (21)
Saturday March 1, 2014, 7:12 pm
“In return, Christians will not be harmed and will be allowed to worship privately, maintain their own clergy without interference and keep their own cemeteries, it added. They are implicitly allowed to continue drinking alcohol and eating pork, but may not do so publicly or trade them with Muslims. Nor may they build or renovate churches, or display the cross.”

“… Nor may they build or renovate churches, or display the cross.”

By what I have learned by other books explaining Islam and the Status of Dhimmitude, this is in the Koran.
As you can obviously see from the photo, the area is a very war-torn community. Most of the churches are probably just as bad off. Some churches might be so unsafe that they probably should be condemned, torn down and replaced by newly built churches.
However, with Sharia law condemning all church renovations, these Christians will not be able to congregate for long in their churches. If any of the Christian congregations begin renovating their churches, the Muslims will brutally kill the church leaders and burn what is left of the church ruins to the ground so that no one can congregate in them.
If the Christians simply make do with the ruins of their Churches, then the Muslims will eventually find ways to pass legislation for closing down all Christian churches. The Muslims will find a way to make all Christian worship within a church assembly setting illegal!

P. L. Neola (21)
Saturday March 1, 2014, 7:50 pm

Some people do not realize that the Jews and Gentiles—both—get the third option, dhimmitude, because they were written about in the Koran.

Both creeds get the third option!

However, the Atheists, the devil worshipers, the Hindus, the Buddhists, the Taoists and other religions throughout the world DO NOT get the third option because Muhammad did not make any reference of them in the Koran.

Actually, the third option is Hell on Earth! Annually the Muslims will take the firstborn son as a tax as well. Anything on wheels and is mobile will eventually be taken from the dhimmis. The Muslims can come into you home, rape your wife and daughters or sons. They can abduct any member of you family. The dhimmi status is a life of FEAR and TERROR, because the Muslims can arbitrarily revoke ones dhimmi status for an individual or an entire family!!!

Past Member (0)
Saturday March 1, 2014, 9:36 pm
Is it any wonder there are so many refugees from this horrific place. I feel so bad for those who want out and cannot get out. Living this was would make every moment of ones life a living nightmare.
Thank you Rob and Jay.

Lloyd H (46)
Saturday March 1, 2014, 10:44 pm
Oh, please! Christians were using "conversion by the sword" and just plain mass murder of unbelievers or heretics for 200 years before the birth of Mohammed. The Islamists just learned the lesson and put it into practice and it is not like the Christians have ever stopped. In Bosnia Christians did not give their Muslim neighbors any options they just forced migrations and committed mass murder along with the concerted and organized efforts to erase all physical and cultural evidence of the Muslims. And to be completely honest there is absolutely no ethical or moral difference between the above, except a lack of options other than fleeing their homes, for the Gays in Uganda, Gambia, Russia, et alia and prison or death by mob violence that members of the Christian Taliban of America were either instrumental in or supported. And just what the Hell is the actual difference to Submission to Islam and the Submission to Christianity in AZ 1062, GA SB 377, ID HB 426 and 427, KS HB 2453, MS 2681, OH HB 376, OK SB 1846,or the Oregon Protect Religious Freedom Initiative Bill, the 2nd Class citizenship based on forced submission to a religious ideology is exactly the same only the Name of the Oppressor Religion is changed.

Debra Tate (17)
Saturday March 1, 2014, 11:15 pm
Noted. UNACCEPTABLE! All MB and AQ affiliates should be wiped off the face of the earth!

Stan B (123)
Sunday March 2, 2014, 12:04 am
Lloyd H. You belong to a small group on Care 2 who try to justify every atrocity by quoting another one, every denial of basic human rights by quoting another one, every act of barbarity by quoting another one.
If you are unable to make a valid contribution to the topic at hand perhaps you should post your own effort.
Thanks Rob and J for enlightening us to what's happening in Syria NOW!!

Stephen Brian (23)
Sunday March 2, 2014, 12:23 am
Hi guys,

A few quick details: I don't think religion is even the problem here. While I haven't checked my copy of the Quran lately, I recall hearing some Islamic scholars mention something about how Mohammed declared tribalism to be the greatest of human vices. Tribalism of almost exactly the nature to which he referred is what is behind this.

This sort of forced assimilation, which leads to stalling of social progress and modern-day Islamic crusaders, is outside of the cultural heritage of Muslims of Southeast Asia and Bosnia, and Turkey (except insofar as they are influenced by Muslims of the Middle East). That's why we keep hearing about problems coming from the former territory of the Abassid Caliphate, in North Africa, the Horn of Africa, the Middle East, Turkey, Afghanistan and Pakistan, not because that's where all the Muslims are. There are about 370 million Arabs in the world, the vast majority of whom are Muslims and about 250 million Muslims in Southeast Asia. Even within that territory, Even regions within the former Abassid Caliphate with strong preexisting imperial cultures (Byzantium, Carthage, and even to a great extent Persia, though Persia was very heavily influenced due to its location) are a lot better than this.

Here's my understanding of the roots of this behavior. Mohammed wanted to stop the tradition of genocidal warfare in the Arabian Peninsula and give the people there a chance to unify rather than remain weak squabbling tribes. He sought a paradigm of conquest that would be accepted by Arabs of the peninsula who had never adopted the imperial traditions just north of them in the Fertile Crescent. I don't think anybody should fault a guy for trying to stop a series of genocides that ran back to time immemorial. He succeeded spectacularly, but without a remotely modern understanding of deep social theory could not have hoped to predict the consequences centuries later. Unfortunately, they turned out very badly as Islam, the bridge between tribes which allowed for unification which he promoted as a way to break out of tribalism, just became a new "tribe" scaling up all of the horrors it was supposed to stop.

Past Member (0)
Sunday March 2, 2014, 5:13 am
It's terrible that people living there are forced to change their religion otherwise they will be threatened to death.

Arlene C (28)
Sunday March 2, 2014, 5:18 am
Thank you Rob and J et tous ceux qui ont écrit des commentaires

Ken O (55)
Sunday March 2, 2014, 7:14 am
Stan B., Noting that other religions (Christianity in particular) have done the same, perhaps even worse, is in no way justifying Muslim atrocities. The point is why single out Islam? For Rahmen, what "Atheist" regimes? Hitler was a Catholic, Mussolini was a Catholic. Are you talking about China? They're outside the box of any religion and Atheism had nothing to do with it. No "regime" ever said "You'd better not believe in God or we'll kill you" though both Christianity and Islam have said that "If you don't believe our way, we'll kill you". Neither Hinduism (Yog) nor Bhudism ever partook of the old "My God is better than your God" crap that Christianity and Islam do. Make no mistake, if Christianity could get away with it they would be doing the same thing that Islam is doing, they have before and would again, they still want everyone to be controlled by their beliefs. Any religion whose basic tenet is "Our God is the one true God" is going to use death and destruction to get their way, always have, always will. It's as if they're saying "Our God is good, merciful, kind and understanding, and if you don't believe it we will, with mercy and kindness murder you, your family and your entire village until you do."

Lloyd H (46)
Sunday March 2, 2014, 7:59 am
Stan B., while I know that it makes you feel superior to intentionally misrepresent what I said, as at no point did I justify the actions of either group of intolerant religious zealots. I merely pointe out to you and the rest of the Islamophobic Choir that they are not in either the Past or the NOW the sinless casting the first stone. Uganda is NOW, Gambia is NOW, Ghana is NOW, Russia is NOW, GA, ID, KS, MS, OH, and OK are all NOW the fact that it makes you and your ilk look exactly like the Christian Taliban of America look like the worst in those you oppose and makes you uncomfortable does not make it any less true or relevant in the Present. Beware climbing upon your High Horse of Moral Superiority for it stand in the ethical quick sands of the Past and the Present.

Sunday March 2, 2014, 10:42 am
So Lloyd H the nasty behaviour of people of your Islamic religion (You have all the signs of a true believer) in one part of the world and even in a different age is excused by the bad behaviour of Christians in another part of the world or even century. I guess you are entitled to your version of logic though it sounds a bit like classic taqiyya and kitman to me!

Carol Dreeszen (346)
Sunday March 2, 2014, 11:20 am
What I can't figure out is WHY do people associate the murders that these barbarian Muslims commit to those that were committed by many centuries ago was it!? Can anyone relate the fact that Catholics today have become civilized!? And do we still see them doing what Muslims TODAY are doing or worse!? I mean really..get off the fact of what Catholics did back in whatever century it was they did it and focus on TODAY and what Muslims TODAY are STILL doing only WORSE!

Sunday March 2, 2014, 11:35 am
Some related rinks on relious persecution:

Evelyn B (63)
Sunday March 2, 2014, 12:41 pm
Um - Carol - how about less than 20 years ago in Srebenica, under the powerless eyes of the Dutch UN forces????
NB Islam recognises Christianity & Judaism - people of the book. Extremists (by definition, not the main stream of a religion) do not follow the core principles of their religion - although they carry out atrocities in the name of their religion. People here opt to judge all followers of a religion by the extremist fringe. To me - that makes then no better than those who they condemn. Fortunately, they do not speak for all Christians - any more than the extremists/ Taliban/ Al Qaeda groups speak for all Muslims. What was it that Jesus said?
Matthew 7:1-3 - "

7 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?"

Hm - food for thought ................

Stan B (123)
Sunday March 2, 2014, 2:47 pm
Lloyd H. " Uganda is NOW, Gambia is NOW, Ghana is NOW, Russia is NOW, GA, ID, KS, MS, OH, and OK are all NOW."
Great, so why not do something about it?? All you ever do is criticize those that do.
Put up or shut up!!

Judith Hand (55)
Sunday March 2, 2014, 2:52 pm
Noted, tweeted, and shared. God help them; I can't imagine being in that position. I'd like to think I'd take the 3rd choice but am glad I'm not looking that in the face right now.

Stan B (123)
Sunday March 2, 2014, 3:25 pm
Ken O. Unfortunately, like Lloyd H, you missed the point I was trying to make. This post is about the persecution of Christians in Syria NOW. If people like Lloyd had the decency to condemn this current persecution and then made the point about the culpability of other religions that would be a reasonable course to take. He never does that. He prefers to attack others for doing what he should be doing.
Read his comment carefully, Ken. There is not a word of criticism of this vile behaviour by Islamists against an innocent minority.

Past Member (0)
Sunday March 2, 2014, 7:32 pm
Michael, *as seen by Christian attempts to take over US state and federal govt and enact laws which THEY deem in line with their beliefs and desires.* The key word, Mike, is ATTEMPT. They're not forcefully converting, slaying, or taxing non-believers.
Carol, I agree that I've heard the old refrain, *Well, the Christians did it back in......* So if a man kills a man, I'm justified in killing a man because it was done before?
Michelle, Christians and Jews are NOT forcing their religions down Muslim throats.
Lloyd, as I just said THEN doesn't justify NOW.

Nimue Michelle Pendragon Gaze (339)
Sunday March 2, 2014, 9:19 pm

Colin Hope (201)
Monday March 3, 2014, 1:30 am

berny p (23)
Monday March 3, 2014, 5:14 am

Please send this link to your friends.
Thanks Rob and J

Nancy Black (308)
Wednesday March 5, 2014, 5:19 pm
Noted,tweeted, shared, tweeted, and shared. Truly sad when people have to give up their faith, conscience, and principles to save their lives and the lives of their families.This is a human right violation, but I doubt if anything will happen because no one is willing to die for the rights of others who are different than they.

Gina Caracci (219)
Thursday March 6, 2014, 7:24 pm
When will people stop and think that if there are THOUSANDS of different religions, what makes them think theirs is the ONE?? These are the worst by far while others are not far behind...
We are destroying our planet while killing others to control it..soon the winners will see nothing on the horizon but smoke.
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