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1881 Document Suggests Palestinian Ownership of Susya


World  (tags: middle-east, palestine, israel, Human Rights, Susiya, Susya, land title, 1881, Ottoman era, legally valid, Israeli Civil Administration, Palestinian ownership, occupied territories )

Evelyn
- 1427 days ago - timesofisrael.com
In light of new internal review, Israeli military administration to reevaluate demolishing West Bank village. The 1881 Ottoman-era document was recently deemed to be both authentic & legally valid by top staff officer in the Civil Administration



   

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Comments

Evelyn B (63)
Monday July 27, 2015, 7:44 am
Rabbis for Human Rights say:
We want to encourage Israel to stop the demolition of Susiya because:

1) It does not benefit Israel’s security

2) It is contrary to Jewish values of justice

3) It will damage Israel’s international standing
 

Evelyn B (63)
Monday July 27, 2015, 10:31 pm
When the question reaches the internationally-read media, they can't dismiss quite so easily!

Maybe in the US, 1881 may seem ancient, in Europe there are ordinary families whose land titles date back much earlier! I have a friend whose land title for his family farm dates back to 1380! If he were to sell, the sale deed would reflect the family inheritance back most of the way to the original title. Wouldn't go so far had a more recent ancestor bought the land .... (Property sale documents are an invaluable source of historical & genealogy data!!)
 

Darren Woolsey (218)
Tuesday July 28, 2015, 12:07 am
Remember, the U.S. holds dear to its heart, the U.S. Constitution:

Ratified‎: ‎June 21, 1788
Created‎: ‎September 17, 1787
 

Carol R (11)
Tuesday July 28, 2015, 7:06 am
Thanks Evelyn.
 

Evelyn B (63)
Tuesday July 28, 2015, 8:36 am
Glad to see there has been a spring cleaning! And thanks, Care2, for removing replies that would have looked strange without the preceding comments!!
 

Evelyn B (63)
Tuesday July 28, 2015, 9:02 am
Hi Barbara - I see you're doing another Cheshire Cat act ....
Thank you - yes I'm having a fine day, hope you are, too. I saw you'd been having fun in a number of threads ...

At one stage, comments replying to your alter-egos seemed strange, but now most people just shrug & think "Barbara's been trying her games again, and has vanished again".
 

Janet B (0)
Tuesday July 28, 2015, 12:43 pm
Thanks
 

Past Member (0)
Tuesday July 28, 2015, 5:02 pm
Thanks Evelyn---noted.
 

Past Member (0)
Tuesday July 28, 2015, 5:02 pm
Israel has a perfect working example of how to handle this. Look to America. It's Constitution, it's Declaration Of Independence, all rights, freedoms, given to "We The People", all citizens to be considered as being equal. The rights and freedoms to be preserved, protected, honored. In this particular matter, a very close analogy being how we treat our country's Natives, the original Nation of People. Every country has this option. Honor and treat all with the same dignity, freedoms, rights. Or, overtly suppress, destroy, disregard certain factions for the personal gain of money, land and power for the 1% and those who work for the 1% of evil that rules the planet. The method is no-holds-barred steamrolling---illegalities, criminal actions, buying into governments & huge corporations, destroying Earth, people and all that lives, if it's in your best interest. Prep-course for Hell.
 

Evelyn B (63)
Wednesday July 29, 2015, 4:00 am
Very true, Ros!
 

Justin Vale (13)
Wednesday July 29, 2015, 7:51 am
you gotta be kidding. 1881? compared to thousands of years it loks like a mel brooks joke. btw, i told you guys weeks ago that israel and turkey would relieve the pressure on isis. and there air forces are doinf just that right at this moment.
 

surjit s (1)
Saturday August 1, 2015, 3:26 pm
I'm sure that majority of land in USA was owned or registered to Native Indians, can they claim it back now?
 

Evelyn B (63)
Saturday August 1, 2015, 10:35 pm
Surjit

The Native Americans have a very different traditional relationship with the land. When the invading White Man started registering ownership of the land, this made no sense to them!

Chief Seattle's statement expresses it (you can listen to one version, with a beautiful film - Chief Seattle's speech read by Mark Sawalha):
CHIEF SEATTLE'S LETTER

"The President in Washington sends word that he wishes to buy our land. But how can you buy or sell the sky? the land? The idea is strange to us. If we do not own the freshness of the air and the sparkle of the water, how can you buy them?

Every part of the earth is sacred to my people. Every shining pine needle, every sandy shore, every mist in the dark woods, every meadow, every humming insect. All are holy in the memory and experience of my people.

We know the sap which courses through the trees as we know the blood that courses through our veins. We are part of the earth and it is part of us. The perfumed flowers are our sisters. The bear, the deer, the great eagle, these are our brothers. The rocky crests, the dew in the meadow, the body heat of the pony, and man all belong to the same family.

The shining water that moves in the streams and rivers is not just water, but the blood of our ancestors. If we sell you our land, you must remember that it is sacred. Each glossy reflection in the clear waters of the lakes tells of events and memories in the life of my people. The water's murmur is the voice of my father's father.

The rivers are our brothers. They quench our thirst. They carry our canoes and feed our children. So you must give the rivers the kindness that you would give any brother.

If we sell you our land, remember that the air is precious to us, that the air shares its spirit with all the life that it supports. The wind that gave our grandfather his first breath also received his last sigh. The wind also gives our children the spirit of life. So if we sell our land, you must keep it apart and sacred, as a place where man can go to taste the wind that is sweetened by the meadow flowers.

Will you teach your children what we have taught our children? That the earth is our mother? What befalls the earth befalls all the sons of the earth.

This we know: the earth does not belong to man, man belongs to the earth. All things are connected like the blood that unites us all. Man did not weave the web of life, he is merely a strand in it. Whatever he does to the web, he does to himself.

One thing we know: our God is also your God. The earth is precious to him and to harm the earth is to heap contempt on its creator.

Your destiny is a mystery to us. What will happen when the buffalo are all slaughtered? The wild horses tamed? What will happen when the secret corners of the forest are heavy with the scent of many men and the view of the ripe hills is blotted with talking wires? Where will the thicket be? Gone! Where will the eagle be? Gone! And what is to say goodbye to the swift pony and then hunt? The end of living and the beginning of survival.

When the last red man has vanished with this wilderness, and his memory is only the shadow of a cloud moving across the prairie, will these shores and forests still be here? Will there be any of the spirit of my people left?

We love this earth as a newborn loves its mother's heartbeat. So, if we sell you our land, love it as we have loved it. Care for it, as we have cared for it. Hold in your mind the memory of the land as it is when you receive it. Preserve the land for all children, and love it, as God loves us.

As we are part of the land, you too are part of the land. This earth is precious to us. It is also precious to you.


NB - some context this text .... but from everything I've read & heard, it does express the attitude towards the concept of "land ownership"

However, the question of traditional "ownership" of land by Native Americans does arise when their Sacred Lands are affected by people wanting to exploit the land.



Land title for the ordinary people is a relatively recent administrative structure ... indeed, in some countries the local knowledge is the defining factor (after all, land title requires also some form of civil registration ... also relatively recent in many places - indeed, still not universally established).
 
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