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Empires Then and Now

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- 2547 days ago -
America's wars are very expensive. Bush and Obama have doubled the national debt, and the American people have no benefits from it. No riches, no bread and circuses flow to Americans from Washington's wars. So what is it all about?


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Micahel Dewey (1021)
Thursday March 29, 2012, 2:15 am
''The New Empire is different. It happens without achieving conquest. The American military did not conquer Iraq and has been forced out politically by the puppet government that Washington established. There is no victory in Afghanistan, and after a decade the American military does not control the country.''-PCR

Carol H (229)
Thursday March 29, 2012, 5:00 am
noted, thank you Michael

Bianca D (87)
Thursday March 29, 2012, 11:18 pm
It's time to start creating the world we want to live in.
Tx Michael.

Michael Carney (217)
Thursday March 29, 2012, 11:36 pm
Noted, thanks, Michael

Jill Vickerman (416)
Thursday March 29, 2012, 11:39 pm
Thank you Michael.

greenplanet e (155)
Thursday March 29, 2012, 11:48 pm
They're other peoples' resources for a start, and most of the resources are fossil fuels -- extracting and burning fossil fuels to excess is burning the planet. Bombing etc also does a great deal of environmental harm. People are killed for all this. Meanwhile, the rich and corporations get richer.

paul m (93)
Friday March 30, 2012, 12:05 am

Well done Michael...noted...

Victoria Pohrebna (279)
Friday March 30, 2012, 12:09 am
Noted. Thank you!

Henriette Matthijssen (154)
Friday March 30, 2012, 12:34 am
And the wars will simply continue as this is the end game, to enslave the world & to destroy 90% of the population. "Unite & give Love & Peace a chance" since this is the change we need to take place, for change of a better world. Thanks Michael.

Micahel Dewey (1021)
Friday March 30, 2012, 1:09 am
That's a good question Ros. It is a tricky game. There was a time when I bought that American exceptional-ism but not this century. Sometimes I think that buying that stuff...keeps our mind's eyes off making a better world, which is America's calling.

Rita D (87)
Friday March 30, 2012, 1:18 am
Noted with interest! Thank youMichael! It all always comes back to one thing: a very small group of powerful & greedy people get richer all the time while destroying humanity & they planet!!!

. (0)
Friday March 30, 2012, 2:30 am

LaurenBackSoon Kozen (173)
Friday March 30, 2012, 2:53 am
Noted. Thanks Michael.

Arild Gone for now (174)
Friday March 30, 2012, 3:25 am
First of all,Bush should never gone to war against Iraque and second,now that Bin Laden is dead and burried I don't see any logical reason for staying in Afghanistan.The history show that the British tried and failed and so did the Soviets,so my advice to USA and NATO is: Get the h*ll out of there now.
Thanks for posting this Michael.

Star S. (54)
Friday March 30, 2012, 3:29 am
noted and could not agree more with all the comments.

Rose Becke (141)
Friday March 30, 2012, 3:42 am
A great Post

Roxana Cortijo (171)
Friday March 30, 2012, 4:09 am
"The war is not meant to be won, it is meant to be continuous...In principle the war effort is always planned to keep society on the brink of starvation. The war is waged by the ruling group against its own subjects and its object is not the victory, but to keep the very structure of society intact." George Orwel - 1984.

Kamila A (141)
Friday March 30, 2012, 4:38 am
I love the David Evans song, thank you for the link.

Wars are waged because its been a world ruled by men. We have come into the age of Aquarius, and whatever you may believe, the balance must tip toward a more feminine sensibility or we will blow ourselves and this planet out of existence. This gesturing toward war with Iran is not going to be allowed----we must all stand up against it. It is another ploy for power by bullying and destruction of lives and resources. War has always been an antisocially created agenda. The way that "civilization" set things up is unsustainable. We will get back to nature and to one another or we will become extinct.

Craig Pittman (52)
Friday March 30, 2012, 6:05 am
Thanks David. It's true that our governments are not working for us. Time to revamp the entire system, re-write the ground rules. The will and the voice of the people has been drowned out by the corporate lobbyists. There used to be at least a token trickle down effect but in the rush for profits they forgot all about the status quo. My feeling is that we have reached a tipping point and that demandsfor substantive change will sweep around the world. I for one have been asleep far too long but the current system now has my full attention. I have no intention of playing their game by their rules.

. (0)
Friday March 30, 2012, 6:18 am
Noted, thank you.

Past Member (0)
Friday March 30, 2012, 6:21 am
Good post. Thanks.

Past Member (0)
Friday March 30, 2012, 6:56 am
Hi Michael. Awesome and insight-full post! Thank you for sharing. I posted a link to Empires Then and Now on Twitter and it was re-Tweeted by others.

I also posted 2012 Shift Alert. When an honestly mistaken man hears this truth, either he ceases being mistaken or ceases being honest.

divergent revolution (309)
Friday March 30, 2012, 8:21 am's all been said,thanks Michael

Charles O (209)
Friday March 30, 2012, 8:45 am
Roxana Cortijo quotes Orwell:

> > "The war is not meant to be won, it is meant to be continuous...In principle the war effort is always planned to keep society on the brink of starvation. The war is waged by the ruling group against its own subjects and its object is not the victory, but to keep the very structure of society intact."

> -- George Orwell, "Nineteen Eighty Four"

That's it, exactly. War is a trillion-dollar business. Lots of groups profit from war and depend on war. See "FAQ: Who wants war?".

. .

> War is just a racket.

-- USMC Maj. Gen. Smedley Butler, two-time recipient of the Medal of Honor, in a 1933 speech ( Follow the link, read the rest of the speech.

. .

> Of course, a militarist regime, one that cares only about its own power and the wealth and well-being of its sycophants, wants us on our knees, quaking in fear lest the “terrorists” get us – while the banksters, the crony-capitalists, the war profiteers, and the foreign lobbyists have their snouts firmly buried in the public trough. If economics doesn’t matter, and the elites can always grab their outsized share of the loot through political connections, then who cares about the increasing immiseration of the masses?

-- Justin Raimondo, "Obama’s Foreign Policy Guru // … is a neocon", *Antiwar.Com*, 28 Mar 2012

Kit B (276)
Friday March 30, 2012, 9:10 am

Seems a good time for shameless plugs - READ: "Confessions of an Economic Hit Man" by John Perkins and "Vultures Picnic" by Greg Palast. Until one understands the worms that chewing away at the foundations of government, we are fighting ghosts. I will make the leap of hoping that all have read "1984" by George Orwell and fully understand what Charles has stated. There are so many very good books available that work to replace the fictional government responses with factual information. However, it is up to each individual to be extremely well informed. It is most difficult to detect a lie if one does not know the truth.

Thanks Micheal, very good article. (SPAM-flagged)

Suzy F (94)
Friday March 30, 2012, 9:30 am
Thank you for the great article. Previous comments already expressed it all.......

Past Member (0)
Friday March 30, 2012, 9:33 am
Thanks for your passionate concern, Michael.

cynthia l (207)
Friday March 30, 2012, 9:56 am
thanks war is not meant to be won

Danny M (83)
Friday March 30, 2012, 9:58 am
Noted, thank you Michael.

Jim Steve (43)
Friday March 30, 2012, 10:04 am
Paul Craig Roberts .... Interesting that most of the anti war, anti empire is coming from the "old right".... (Robert Taft RIP). And, of course, most Libertarians have been anti war, The last makes sense as Libertarians are derived from Classic Liberals. What people don't know, is that those ideologies have ALWAYS been anti war and anti US empire. The same cannot be said of the Left. In fact, the Left has mostly been pro war and pro empire. Apologies to the likes of Dennis Kuchinch, Barry Sanders and others that are actually exceptions to the rule.

War and empire are inevitable results of a powerful State. Past a certain point, the more power that is invested into a government, the more likely that State will become aggressive. There are no historical exceptions to that rule. Zero. Those that champion increases in government power are, in effect, embracing war and empire.

The idea that the warlike nature of a powerful State can be limited by "democracy" is a central theme of the progressive movement. The opposite has occurred. Inevitability, those that wish to use that power have utilized democracy to control the people. Only when a government is strictly limited in power can democracy succeed and represent the peaceful interests of the people. Until this principle is understood, and government is reduced to it's limited role in our society, the true interests of the people will not prevail. Wars will continue. The population will be subjected to more and more restrictions and the citizens will be increasingly impoverished.

Past Member (0)
Friday March 30, 2012, 10:31 am
"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children...This is not a way of life at all in any true sense. Under the cloud of threatening war, it is humanity hanging from a cross of iron."
Dwight D. Eisenhower

Jae A (316)
Friday March 30, 2012, 10:32 am
Great read. Thanks for the sharing of it and for those who have left such insightful and interesting comments..some saying much of what I have on my mind.

They now have to perfect enemy for the people of the nation to focus on ....forever...terrorist. You can put any face on it that you like..any nation, any individual...for the profits of a few that will keep rolling in for as long as we the people let them get away with doing so. Simply changing Presidents is not the's too late for that to make much if any difference I think.

G.W. Bush unleased the biggest monster to on going and perfect enemy... and only history will tell it's outcome... As long as they have the troops and or machines to keep fighting 'the perfect enemy' they will continue unless the people refuse to finially not be a party to their madness and greed. Today, that's just not the case and so they will keep bombing,drilling and polluting our world ...$$$$$$$...while they keep us distracted with just trying to survive.

Angelika R (143)
Friday March 30, 2012, 11:12 am
thank you Michael, another quality post, promoted with one of his typical so awesome and nicely composed messages. This is how we know you and love you. Good comments as well, noithing to add from my side, -except maybe that it hurts to swallow the disgusting truth what our world has come to.

Richard Smith (81)
Friday March 30, 2012, 11:17 am
good insights here, glad people are seeing it the way it us.
"colonization" always begins by stripping foreign forests of trees,otunneling to strip the earth of minerals,
then it settles the area as an outpost of the country that sent it. Then is proclaims "liberty" from its own motherland and becomes a mining harvesting prowler of its own competing with the OTHER countries
for resources. Its time we recognize the pattern for what it is . We must lay aside all founding father romanticism. and call it what it is:
its the work of a parasitical patriarchal feeds till it kills its host...that is it.

Micahel Dewey (1021)
Friday March 30, 2012, 11:22 am
Thanks Angelika. It figures to me, that with this cool Tech stuff, when its understood how to use it, try my best, by a click of the right buttons, to add a touch of class into something I believe in enough, to send to over a 1000 cool friends on Care2's, a little out dated message system.

''Inch by inch, mile after mile we are getting there, or so I am told.''-Arlo Guthrie Though would love to hear that kind of stuff from where ever it is Arlo is told that.

David C (80)
Friday March 30, 2012, 12:11 pm
noted...thanks for spreading the word, Michael!

Lois Jordan (63)
Friday March 30, 2012, 2:31 pm
Excellent post, Michael. Was just thinking about the "industries" we have left in America. Well, we still have the Entertainment Industry. We have the Spy "Intelligence" Industry, and the War (Military) Industry. We have the Financial Industry, including the Banking Industry. There's the Oil Industry, along with the other dirty energy industries. We have a continually growing Health Insurance Industry. We also have the Private Prison and Debt Industries, and don't forget the Political Campaign Industry and Mainstream News Propaganda Industry. It just sickens me....not much left of the automotive or clothing industries...or any industry that actually MAKES something tangible you can buy. And our Green Energy industry's on shaky legs. The writing's on the wall, and I, for one, am depressed about the sad state of our country. Sorry for the rant, but this just hits the core of what's wrong with the Amerikan Empire. Now, we must spread the word to others and make changes. I plan to get down to some of the local protests with our local Occupy.

Mary Donnelly (47)
Friday March 30, 2012, 3:37 pm
Thanks Michael--excellent post and comments

Mary T (178)
Friday March 30, 2012, 5:21 pm
Thanks Michael for the excellent article.

Lakmal Bandara (0)
Friday March 30, 2012, 5:27 pm
So true Michael.

Please watch


Every teenager in my coultry knows who did 9,11 and why, who is using 51% of american peoples tax money and how to use american blood for their survival. But how many american adults know it ? very few.


Lakmal Bandara (0)
Friday March 30, 2012, 5:29 pm
Thanks chrles too...sorry i forgot you.

Past Member (0)
Friday March 30, 2012, 5:47 pm
"So what is it all about?"
It's about making the elite even richer.

Jelica R (144)
Friday March 30, 2012, 8:05 pm
"Great empires... succeeded, because the value of the resources and wealth extracted from conquered lands exceeded the value of conquest and governance. The reason Rome did not extend its empire east into Germany was not the military prowess of Germanic tribes but Rome's calculation that the cost of conquest exceeded the value of extractable resources."

This citation shows why I've been reading a lot of Paul Craig Roberts' articles lately. He is so accurate in explaining the complex phenomena that everyone can easily understand what is essential and what is only superficial effect.

Kit mentioned it, and here is the link:

Interview - Confessions of an Economic Hit Man - Part I

Interview - Confessions of an Economic Hit Man - Part II

Now, if you have a week-end to spare, several more documentary movies, loosely related to the topic:

John Perkins on Globalization

Food Inc.

The Corporation

Slavery By Consent

The Shock Doctrine 2009

Lydia S (155)
Friday March 30, 2012, 8:25 pm
Thanks so much for post .

Evelyn Z (300)
Friday March 30, 2012, 8:39 pm
Noted. Thanks Michael

Xiaoyan N. (0)
Friday March 30, 2012, 8:44 pm
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patrica and edw jones (190)
Saturday March 31, 2012, 1:34 am
It is all about Power, Control of the Masses and the Acquistion of Wealth......... Love, Compassion and Tolerance have no place in today's societies. But We, the People can bring about changes - we just have to WANT IT.
Thanks, Michael....good post.

Past Member (0)
Saturday March 31, 2012, 6:18 am
The Hopi tell us that we are the ones we are waiting for. Extreme space and Earth conditions suggest now is the time to become what truly be which is love, compassion and freewill beings who can choose inner peace [tolerance instead of judgment, criticism, negativity], and speak up together for world peace and justice for all including our Earth Mother.

I just joined my Occupy community to strengthen affirmative, peaceful action to transform war and injustices into peace and liberation of the masses. Blessings and love to all.

Stelizan L (258)
Saturday March 31, 2012, 11:25 am
Kudos to all - interesting comments and GOOD article, Michael - also, congratulations on your article on Raven's Watch!! But - thank God we don't live in the US of A, it's not the country the American people think it is and I truly hope and pray everyone wakes up before it's too late!!!

P. L. Neola (21)
Saturday March 31, 2012, 12:48 pm

I enjoyed reading Empires Then and Now, and I agreed with the article.

However, I want to make mention these facts! When Bush took his first term of this presidency, the deficit was at $5.727 trillion. Apparently, during Bush’s two-term presidency, he increased the deficit another 4.58 trillion. Then, President Obama became president and before he completed his first term, he increased it another 6.3073 trillion.

Now, below, here is our current deficit amount!!!


The Outstanding Public Debt as of 31 Mar 2012 at 07:23:01 PM GMT is:


The estimated population of the United States is 312,501,132
so each citizen's share of this debt is $49,879.54.

The National Debt has continued to increase an average of
$4.00 billion per day since September 28, 2007!

Concerned? Then tell Congress and the White House!

It keeps increasing every second. One only has to keep refreshing this site a couple of times before it sinks in how serious our situation really is in reality!!!

Joe R (190)
Sunday April 1, 2012, 5:59 am
Very interesting article Michael. Thanks.

Lydia Weissmuller Price (181)
Sunday April 1, 2012, 9:56 am
Avarice and greed are the ways of man. We used to raid neighboring tribes and steal from them. Now we just tax people to death.

Terrie Williams (798)
Sunday April 1, 2012, 10:14 am the new "Nero's" (gov'ts, MIL's, Argi-Pharma biz, etal) are 'fiddling'...New Rome is Burning.

It is time for a monumental change...or our world will burn to ashes...and everything living thing with it.

Kathy Javens (104)
Sunday April 1, 2012, 3:20 pm
Noted. We, all over the world need to just stop all wars...NOW. They are big business for some, but for the majority, it is nothing but death & destruction. And if it keeps going, mankind will fight themselves into extinction.

Patricia E G (52)
Sunday April 1, 2012, 4:34 pm
Good comment Robert O.
Read: I can change your Avatar
Thank you Michael

Heidi Aubrey (4)
Sunday April 1, 2012, 11:29 pm
Jim Steve, How would the very limited government(Republican and top 1%) feel about the 40 hour work week,overtime pay, minimum wage laws,unemployment benefits, protecting our National Parks, Social Security for people who worked their entire lives, womens reproductive rights, protecting endangered species....these are all products of a Democrat President.

Past Member (0)
Monday April 2, 2012, 9:52 am
The government does nothing for which the American people are NOT responsible. Spoiled Brat Americans, content with bread and circuses and all the decadence of a consumerist lifestyle...why have any of us gone so long without noticing the blood on all of our hands? The government doesn't represent us because we don't care enough to ensure that it represents us.

Jim Steve (43)
Monday April 2, 2012, 6:29 pm
Hedi, I hope you don't assume that I view the Republican "side" any favorably then the Democrat "side". But lest look at the result of the Democrat side. The top .1% (that's the top point one percent) grew their percentage of America's over wealth faster under both Clinton and Obama that under GW Bush or Reagen.

Let's look at this on a non partisan way. The American worker increased productivity about 300% since 1965. The results in real purchasing power of necessities? A drop of 40%. Why? Increased government spending and deficit/money printing made the dollars earned worth less. The Republicans AND Democrats colluded in more "defense" spending and wars. Both "sides": used the government to advance the causes of special interests. At the expense of almost all Americans and the US economy.

So Heidi please pay attention to the EFFECT of government. That is:

1, the concentration of wealth in fewer hands.
2. The concentration of economic power in the hands of powerful corporations.
3. The DECLINE in the overall purchasing power of American workets.

Add in;
1. The loss of American jobs due to government policy
2. The concentration pf American industry into military production
3. A increase in the costs of health care which have expanded at 3X the inflation rate since government involvement.

Minimum wage: If American workers were paid in silver coin instead of money debased by government spending, their pay would be equivalent to $35/hr in purchasing of the dollar based on 1964 rate of pay: Your big government has resulted in a destruction of their pay, wiped out produtiviti8y gains.

I understand the claim that no progress is made without government. It;s a lie. A view of the tends on advances in the human condition in life span, medical care, prosperity and more have all shown that government involvement has resulted in increases in causes, diversion of wealth and massive increases in costs.

I don't expect you to believe what I am explaining to you Heidi, but think: government is controlled by the powerful. The more powerful government is, the more influence they have on our society. Some of us are trying to make our society less controlled powerful interests. You think that the government is the vehicle to do that. That is not realistic.

Charles O (209)
Monday April 2, 2012, 10:13 pm
Well said, Jim S.! But too categorical, perhaps.

Whether government is helpful or harmful depends on WHO RUNS the government.

Here in the U.S., the robber barons have taken over. Government "of, by, and for the people" has been transformed into government "of, by and for the criminals".

Technological gains should be increasing our standard of living; instead, our standard has been declining for the last forty years. This amazing feat is the result of the criminalization of our government.

The criminals rob us by manipulating the currency. They murder us by sending us off to slaughter people in some hapless third-world country. They speak to us as if we are children. They feed us lies and fairy-tales.

The criminals at the top regard us as expendable: We are "useless eaters". And we, in turn, are right to regard them as murderers, thieves, liars, sociopaths. When we empower government, these are the people we are empowering.

But Heidi A. is right in theory: Government COULD be beneficial, IF it were run by the people. There are many things that government can do better than for-profit corporations -- e.g., Social Security, Medicare, highway construction, disease prevention, prison operation.

So the first task is to democratize America. Democracy means "rule by the people". But here is a very important counter-intuitive point: It does not necessarily mean elections. Elections actually lead to oligarchy, as Aristotle and Montesquieu realized. Fortunately, there are other, better, more direct, ways to implement "rule by the people". See:

FAQ: How can we restore democracy in the U.S.?


Micahel Dewey (1021)
Tuesday April 3, 2012, 1:01 am
Though I like some of the rhetoric for both sides, am really neither left not right. Like smaller Govt sounds great, but its grown since ''they'' started to use those words. Its been so long since the left stood for anything that I forget why I had mainly voted for them. But on Health Care, I wonder how much Reagan had to do with the cost going through the roof, when he privatized what was mainly a not for profit system.-correct me if I am wrong on that. Right now, though there was once, there is no difference between the 2 parties that got us over $15 Trillion in debt, which I think has had much to do with devaluing the dollar.

Richard Smith (81)
Tuesday April 3, 2012, 9:56 am
Charles O.
important words
its the electoral system that is failing. It turns the whole system into a devisive sports arena based on strong arm competition and who "wins" is NOT THE WISE...but instead the most clever, or persuasive ,or who hires the right kind of speech writers and image sales persons. Voters are easily swayed and bought by promises.
if there is a way to get the WISE into the US government...i'm listening...

in the matriarchal systems of my ancestors, clan-mothers selected and directed the chiefs that would represent them. It might be that distinct sex roles are not the way to go anymore, but we need a system where the wise can appoint the wise,and phase out competitive "race to the top" patriarchalism.

Charles O (209)
Tuesday April 3, 2012, 10:29 am
Hello Richard --

Exactly! Conventional wisdom EQUATES elections with democracy, but, in reality, elections are more likely to lead to oligarchy for the reasons you mention. So we are forging our own chains when we put our faith exclusively in elections.

At the very least, we need to supplement elections with other more direct forms of democracy, so that we are no longer totally dependent on a criminal class of professional politicians.

Here are three possibilities:

* referendums

* aleatory democracy -- see FAQ: How can we restore democracy in the U.S.?

* a hierarchy of councils -- the Libyan system Gadafi describes in the "Green Book"

Jim Steve (43)
Tuesday April 3, 2012, 7:22 pm
I respect your beliefs, but I must differ. I ask you to look at the results, not the fantasy. The truth is the elites have used progressive ideals to undermine the restrictions placed on government by the US Constitution. Since the elites control government, removing of restrictions on government have empowered them. This was recognized long ago.

"THE conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country.
We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of. This is a logical result of the way in which our democratic society is organized. Vast numbers of human beings must cooperate in this manner if they are to live together as a smoothly functioning society.
Our invisible governors are, in many cases, unaware of the identity of their fellow members in the inner cabinet."....... Edward Bernays: Propaganda (1928).

Powerful government represents the powerful Simple. The theory that the agenda of the elites can be subjected to the will of the has never proven to be the case. Therefore, those that seek a more powerful state will inevitability be turned against the interests of each other. This results in dividing the people against each other.. The elites prevail.

If the USA does not return to the principles of the Republic, economic and political conditions will continue toe deteriorate. .

Michele Mercer (16)
Friday April 6, 2012, 2:41 pm

Past Member (0)
Friday April 6, 2012, 2:45 pm
Global Mindshift 2012 - THRIVE.

Yvonne F (181)
Monday April 16, 2012, 10:17 am
So true,so true! Thanks for posting this Michael!!

Past Member (0)
Tuesday April 17, 2012, 9:09 am
To: [Empires]
War and injustices invite us to connect, respectfully speak up together for world peace, and redirect clean money to build a new sustainable world where justice, equality, kindness, and coherence prevail. Evolution or Extinction? Learn, connect, improve what matters most to you.

Past Member (0)
Sunday April 29, 2012, 6:36 am
I invited The Media Consortium to broadcast ‘UFO The Greatest Story Ever Denied’. To read more click here

Past Member (0)
Wednesday May 9, 2012, 8:36 pm

President of the United States: Urgent Request for UN Intervention to Stabilize Fukushima Reactor Unit 4.
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