Start A Petition

72-Year-Old Woman Tasered: By TX Police on VIDEO

US Politics & Gov't  (tags: ElderAbuse, AustinTXPolice, Tasers, NonLethalWeapons, Dementia, KathrynWinklein, MaryNeal, assistancetotheincarceratedmentallyill, AIMI, policebrutality )

- 3663 days ago -
Elderly people with dementia don't stand a chance against an Austin, TX police officer with a Taser. Kathryn Winkleen, age 72, was tasered for talking rudely to a policeman who pulled her over during a traffic stop. SEE THE RAW FOOTAGE. Many deaths have


We hate spam. We do not sell or share the email addresses you provide.


Mary Neal (183)
Sunday June 14, 2009, 4:29 am
Nobody is too old or too young to be Tasered in the USA. The youngest victim I read about the police tasering was six years old. Kathryn Winklein is 72, old enough to be a great, great grandmother. No one is safe.

. (0)
Sunday June 14, 2009, 5:32 am
I don't see where this news item says the woman has "dementia". And if she did, that could make her even more dangerous.

And she was not tasered for speaking rudely to the officer. She had been doing that well before she was tasered. She was told to stay back from the officer. She kept moving towards him. Finally she tried to get in her car against his orders. And wasn't tasered, merely pushed back. Then she tried again to get in the car - and was finally tasered.

She resisted the officer. And tried to get away from him. You can't do that. And just because she was 72 years old didn't mean that she wasn't carrying a weapon or couldn't have harmed the officer. I've seen too many videos of police officers being killed or injured on those traffic stops.

Mary Neal (183)
Sunday June 14, 2009, 7:42 am
Lindsey, tell your bosses that I did not report that she has dementia. I merely stated quite truthfully that elders suffering from dementia don't stand a chance since 72-year-old folks are being TASERED BY POLICE. Many of them might not show proper deference to the badge and uniform, and get ZAPPED TO DEATH BY THE NON-LETHAL WEAPON.


I believe Ms. Kathryn lived, thank God. Many people who are Tasered do not die immediately, however. Some die within a month or so. Many suffer permanent neurological damages. I pray that this great grandmother is able to resume her normal life with no side-effects.

. (0)
Sunday June 14, 2009, 7:48 am
You stated that "elderly people with dementia don't stand a chance against an Austin, TX police officer with a Taser." The Austin police officer in this news item tasered this particular 72-year-old woman. The implication is clear.

I'm glad that Ms. Kathryn lived. I'm also glad that the police officer lived and wasn't injured. Many officers don't live or end up with serious injuries after what start out as routine traffic stops.

Elizabeth Schauki (13)
Sunday June 14, 2009, 8:08 am
I think that if a person with dementia is harmed in some way when out alone it has to be the ultimate fault of the family. Because someone who has dementia shouldn't be allowed to go anywhere on their own.

There was one person in my family who suffered from Alzheimer's Disease. So much of the time she was very placid. But sometimes she could become violently agitated and it was so very surprising how much strength she showed during those episodes and on a few occasions she unfortunately caused some injury to the practical nurse who looked after her every day. She was never left alone because she could very easily have hurt herself or someone else.

There isn't much in life sadder than the degeneration of a mind.

Mary Neal (183)
Sunday June 14, 2009, 8:42 am





. (0)
Sunday June 14, 2009, 9:26 am
Really? The police officer knew that she was unarmed? How? Knew that there were no weapons in the car that this woman kept trying to get back into? How? Knew that in her already belligerent and uncooperative state that she wasn't going to jump on him? How?

The police officer was dealing with a person who was refusing lawful orders, who kept attempting to approach him and then kept attempting to try and flee from him by getting back in the car. For heaven's sake, what was he supposed to do - put her in a choke hold and wrestle her to the ground? After which, of couse, everyone would be screaming about the broken hip she suffered from being manhandled and would be yelling about how he shouldn't have laid hands on an elderly woman.

The woman chose to take all those actions. After being warned that she would be tasered if she tried to elude the officer again by getting in the car. She chose to do it anyway.

. (0)
Sunday June 14, 2009, 9:51 am
Three Oakland, CA police officers killed in routine traffic stop:

Sacramento officer shot during routine traffic stop:

Ohio officer killed in routine traffic stop:

Houston officer killed in routine traffic stop:

Arizona officer killed in routine traffic stop:

Officer shot in routine traffic stop:

Phoenix officer killed in routine traffic stop:

The list could go on and on. Police never know what's going to happen on a "routine" traffic stop. They never know who has weapons and who doesn't. And they have a right to be protected.

Mary Neal (183)
Sunday June 14, 2009, 9:57 am





Mary Neal (183)
Sunday June 14, 2009, 10:11 am
I don't mean to be rude, but between Lindsey excusing the police for tasering a great grandmother with NO weapon at all but her wrinkles, and the CYBERSTALKER who is trying to keep me from posting this news article, I am relly tense.

I posted the news to all 130+ friends, AI, TownCrier. Posting now to AIMI, MJ, Against Human Stupidity, Minority News Network, Human Rights Network.

Please send to your friends if you care about our elders. Oftentimes, they are cranky. Some of them may be demented. Please help tell police don't taser them unless they have a weapon pointed at them. Even then, just try to get out of their way and talk to them. Thanks in advance.

Eleanor B (909)
Sunday June 14, 2009, 10:51 am
I found this a shocking video. Compared to this officer this woman is tiny. Are police officers not trained to deal with tiny old women besides tasering them? What did they do before they were allowed to use such a possibly lethal weapon? I found it incredible that he continued to shout at her and demand that she put her hands behind her back. In what kind of state was she at this point? She sounded as though she were screaming with pain.

Mary Neal (183)
Sunday June 14, 2009, 12:28 pm
I don't know, Eleanor, what her situation is now. I will follow up and see if she went to the hospital after this or if the police threw her in the back of the police car and jailed her - a senior citizen (someone old enough to be the MOTHER of a senior citizen).

Lindsey seemed to excuse the police officer saying he did not know what the unarmed 72-year-old woman might do to him. I wonder what she would say about the 6-year-old child who was tasered. Probably the same thing. The officer FELT threatened. Lord have mercy.

Mary Neal (183)
Sunday June 14, 2009, 12:50 pm
I just watched it again. The officer was talking so mean to the old lady that she became afraid of him. She wanted to get back into her car where she felt safe. Her arms were folded in front of her. He could not think she was reaching for any weapon or anything. He told her to get back, and she stepped back. But she did not want to go into the grass near the woods. He was sounding so angry, she was afraid of what he had in mind - what he might do.

Next thing you see, he tasered her, and she fell to the ground! He stood over her while her little body was racked with pain - just the fall could have broken her brittle bones in her hip! But he does not care at all

He shouts, "Get your hands behind your back, or you're gonna be tased again! Get your hands behind your back now! or you will be tased again!"

Then the little old lady says " I can't. I can't - I'm trying"

He threatens the great grandmother again - "You are going to get tased again."

I think he wanted to kill her. I hope she is OK.

. (0)
Sunday June 14, 2009, 12:56 pm
A person who, when a police officer says, "Step back or you're going to be tasered", responds, "I dare you. I dare you." doesn't sound terribly frightened. A person who when told to step back goes right ahead and moves toward the police officer doesn't seem terribly frightened.

Mary Neal (183)
Sunday June 14, 2009, 1:17 pm


Mary Neal (183)
Sunday June 14, 2009, 1:19 pm





Mary Neal (183)
Sunday June 14, 2009, 1:37 pm
That elderly woman's conduct at first is exactly what broght the word "dementia" to my mind. Some people who suffer dementia don't have family members close by. But the lady sounded like she had age-onset dementia to me.

TASERING her did not save a bus load of children. Stopping her car did that. If police are unable to take little old ladies into custody without Tasering them, then they should not be police officers. There are many senior citizens in the world. Some don't hear well.

The police killed a senior in California last year because the police was saying to the old man, drop your stick. drop your stick. The man was blind and could not hear. The police shot him over his walking cane.


Rebecca H (29)
Sunday June 14, 2009, 1:37 pm
I would say God save us from crazy old people. If a person does not have the ability to follow the instructions of a police officer and just be civil and let the man do his job then they certainly should not be behind the wheel of a vehicle which requires a much greater level of concentration and decision making skills. That tazer may have just saved the life of a bus full of children if she was so incoherent to understand simple request of an officer of the law.

Dee C (23)
Sunday June 14, 2009, 1:38 pm
Wow..The video presented here has been edited..The whole beginning is cut out..Very biased presentation..

This woman was not only abusive to the police officer..but she first refused to sign the ticket..then she refused to get out of the car..then she refused to stay behind the car..(out of harms way I might add) Then she went to hit the officer..and finally she resisted arrest..

The officer acted appropriately in this case..

Her age should not make any difference at all..She is/was feisty enough to curse at and attempt to hit an officer..resist arrest..refuse to obey his orders..and lets not forget her speeding through a work zone..which is why she was pulled over in the first place..

This is no frail..woman with dementia..

And you really should show the whole entire video to make it fair to judge..Though I am sure if there is any bias to begin with against cops well then some always thrive on this stuff..


Rebecca H (29)
Sunday June 14, 2009, 1:39 pm
Let's try and remember here, how old was the man who just killed a security officer in DC?????? To bad some one didn't tazer him.

Dee C (23)
Sunday June 14, 2009, 1:39 pm
Exactly Rebecca..age has nothing to do with this and it is a shame no one was able to taze that horrible man..


Mary Neal (183)
Sunday June 14, 2009, 1:45 pm
That is exactly why I think the great grandmother may have been suffering from age-onset dementia. She was not cooperative at first. She seemed unrational. There are many senior citizens who suffer from that. Not all of them have full-blown Altzheimer's, but they are not completely rational all of the time.

Many seniors do not live around any relatives. I do not know her living situation, but it is not enough to say what a relative should have done to protect the senior. She may have no one close to her area.

TASERING the old lady is not needed to save other motorists. Stopping her car did that. If a 6' police officer - a healthy looking man -- cannot take a little old lady into custody without TASERING her first, he does not need the job.

It is awful what some seniors endure at the hands of police officers. I am sure most policemen would be upset. Last year, a very old man was told by the police to drop his weapon -- a walking cane. The police officer screamed again, "Drop your weapon!" The old man kept trying to go up the steps to his apartment. The police man killed him. The old man was deaf and blind. The cane was a walking stick.

God bless our elders. Officers, the Bible says, "Twice a child." Please lower your voice and don't scream when you give a senior orders. They are not used to anyone talking to them like that. It confuses them. They do not necessarily have good hearing, or they may have dementia and not act like they respect your orders. Just be more like you were talking to a child. Please, don't Taser them unless they are a threat to you. Please.

. (0)
Sunday June 14, 2009, 1:50 pm
Thanks for that info, Dee. You're right - it was an edited video. The complete video is here (it's the second video on the page right under where it says "More Video of Grandma Being Tased):

"A 72-year-old woman is pulled over for speeding, then tasered and sent to jail. Kathryn Winkfein says she drives to Austin about twice a month to do her shopping. But on a Monday afternoon, a Travis County Constable deputy pulled her over, on her way back to Granite Schoals.

"Due to being a construction zone, and workers being present," Pct. 3 Constable Richard McCain said, "it was 45, she was doing 60."

Winkfein admits she was speeding in the dangerous strip of Highway 71 and Bee Creek.

"He explained to her," Constable McCain said, "sign the ticket stub, it's not an admission of guilt. It's a promise to appear in court. She didn't want to. She said take me to jail."

That's when the officer says Winkfein exited her vehicle and didn't cooperate.

"She refused to get off the side of the road, he said to her, Ma'am, you're under arrest. She used profanity," the Constable said. He adds she got violent, and the officer used a taser on her.

Winkfein showed FOX 7 her taser scars.

"Here and here. Two places, side by side. It's unreal. It's like an electric shock," she said.

A shock Winkfein believes she didn't deserve.

"I wasn't argumentative, I was not combative. This is a lie. All of this is a lie, pulled away from him I did not," she said, reading the arrest affidavit.

The great-grandmother was taken to the Travis County Jail, where she was booked for resisting arrest and detention. She was released shortly after. Now, Winkfein has hired attorneys to protect her rights.

When asked if it was appropriate for the arresting officer to have used a taser, Constable McCain answered yes."


Kit B (276)
Sunday June 14, 2009, 1:50 pm
What I find shocking is that this woman's behavior is being justified. When you are stopped by the police you follow their instructions, it for their safety and for our own safety. I don't know, nor does anyone from just this video what the stop was about, if she was sober, or why she chose to ignore the instructions by the police officer. If she does suffer from a mental problem other then being obstinate she really doesn't belong behind the wheel of car. Seems to me the police office was doing his job, no matter what her age, she knows better then to fight with the police over simple instructions, if she does not - then again get her off the road.

Dee C (23)
Sunday June 14, 2009, 1:53 pm
Read the story here and see the video..

There may be those here who do not agree or approve of tasers..but then no one here is actually in the shoes of the constable or any of the of the law enforcement faced with belligerent and unruly people like this lady was..

She deserved it..She could have accepted the ticket.. she was after all speeding and deserved the ticket..and she could have been on her way..She choose instead to act like an a$$..and give this officer a hard time..resist arrest and made the situation all the more worse..

And she also lied to the press about her one can clearly see in the video in the above link..She lied not knowing that the officer had her and the whole incident on his dash cam..


. (0)
Sunday June 14, 2009, 1:58 pm
I think what many tend to forget is that old people can be just as deliberately nasty and unpleasant as young people, even in their "right mind". After all, ugly and belligerent younger people do tend to stay that way throughout their lives.

Dee C (23)
Sunday June 14, 2009, 2:01 pm
Well then when stopped by an officer..for speeding or whatever infraction..I would strongly suggest that people don't curse..hit..resist and ignore and disobey their orders..especially when you are in the wrong and breaking the law..

So if someone is old..what they get a free pass..No way..

Cynthia Davis (340)
Sunday June 14, 2009, 2:04 pm
Well am glad it wasn't my feisty old Grandmother. Do any of you have any idea what electric shock can do to a 72 year old heart. I'm guessing not. There has to be a better way to handle people. Trasers have been known to kill people. They should be outlawed.

Sunday June 14, 2009, 2:08 pm

I happen to agree with your posts and the points that you make!

Unless you are wanting an emotional reaction from the reader, the age of the person and the fact that they have children, grandchildren or great-grandchildren has no bearing on this situation!

Fact: This person was driving 25 MPH over the posted speed limit. She was doing 60 MPH in a 35 MPH zone... in many states that is reckless driving!

Fact: The video shown does not show the full story... we are shown only a small portion of the traffic stop!

Fact: You do not argue with a Police Officer who has a badge and gun... that is what a court of law is for!

Fact: This lady did not follow the Police Officer's instructions, she is required to obey a law enforcements orders... She has NO argument or Defense!

Fact: She failed to obey lawful instructions on five occasions... The officer showed patience and respect for this person and great restraint... the lady has only herself to blame!

Folks... based on the short video and her lack of respect for Law Enforcement... can you imagine what her children and grandchildren must be like?

This lady needs to have her Driving Privileges Suspended immediately because there is no excuse for driving in such a reckless manner and complete disregard for the safety of others. In most 35 MPH Zones you will find children playing but NO.... this lady is above the law and speed limits don't apply to her!

She needs to be charged with failure to obey an Officers instructions and resisting arrest... with a $1000 dollar fine and a week in jail!


Elderberry T (201)
Sunday June 14, 2009, 2:09 pm
I agree with you Cynthia and Mary...welcome to the Police state...

"I would say God save us from crazy old people." Yeah one day you'll be old if your lucky...

Joycey B (750)
Sunday June 14, 2009, 2:35 pm
I just don't like tasering unless absolutely neccessary. I feel they should have just handcuffed her and not use the taser on her. She is too fragile and old. I am thankful she is alright. Thanks Mary.

Sunday June 14, 2009, 2:58 pm
Think about the statement for a moment: "She is too fragile and old."

If she is too fragile and old... then she shouldn't be driving!

If she ran over and killed a 6-year-old... do we excuse her reckless driving by saying she is too fragile and old?

If she is too fragile and old... how does an Officer place handcuffs on a rude, uncooperative, angry citizen safely? Perhaps the officer should say: "Oh please please please let me arrest you and put these handcuffs on you!"

She broke the law and has no excuse or defense for her childish behavior and her behavior was right up there with Zsa Zsa Gabor who went to jail for her conduct at the same age!

Who, in this country, should be above the law?

If the answer is nobody... then that fragile old lady needs to lose her licensee, be fined and spend a week in jail!

She has nobody but herself to blame and the fact is that her conduct did in fact place the officers life in jeopardy. If you watch the video, his feet were on the white line of the road and his back was turned away from oncoming traffic... That lady deserves jail!

Sunday June 14, 2009, 3:09 pm
... and people whine and complain about crime in this country. They lament about the poor behavior of our children and wonder who, how and why they act so poorly!

After watching that video the mystery has been solved. Our children have learned it from us!

. (0)
Sunday June 14, 2009, 3:11 pm
I would imagine an in-shape cop to be able to handle an old lady without resorting to tasers. Of course this is not the first time police have abused their power. The use of the taser was clearly unecessary.

Sunday June 14, 2009, 3:13 pm
The lady broke the law!

She deserves jail!

I am glad the officer did not resort to physical force and used the Taser... if he had to place his hands on her he could have easily broken bones or dislocated her shoulders while placing cuffs on her!

The Taser was clear justified!

Sunday June 14, 2009, 3:23 pm
If the courts are stupid enough to ever let her drive... what do you want to bet that she will say Yes Sir and No Sir to the officer the next time she is pulled over for doing 25 MPH over the speed limit?

Sunday June 14, 2009, 3:39 pm
Thank you Rebecca!

If people were to watch the video they would see the officer attempting to place handcuffs on the woman... she struggles... the highly edited video clearly shows resisting arrest, failure to obey and a long list of other violations!

Rebecca H (29)
Sunday June 14, 2009, 3:41 pm
Sentinel how did you get so wise. I was saying... "yea.. that's right" the whole time I was reading your post and it wasn't till I looked to see who wrote something so honest that I seen it was little ol' you. Thank you for your post.

Darlene K (356)
Sunday June 14, 2009, 3:43 pm
hmmm...Yes, she broke the law, and must be held accountable. However, I know there are good cops, overstressed cops, and bad cops. Since all police shootings are investigated, there is a bit more accountability or responsibility that we, as citizens, are assured when an officer is faced with no other option. In otherwords, was the shooting absolutely necessary.

However, tasering doesn't follow the same protocol as when shooting is involved in an incident, and this creates a large area for "abuse of power." Sarah is right, police officers are well trained to restrain and "hog-tie" if they must, to handle an abusive citizen, elderly or not. Tasering an unarmed 72 year old woman, in my humble opinion, is an outrage. I don't care what foul mouth, resisting actions she was exhibiting. I sensed the lack of compassion and concern for this tasering episode, in some of these comments.

Her going to jail or whatever is a given, but this cop didn't need a taser. I know many cops, and none of them would ever tazer or shoot a 72 year old woman, unless she had a gun shooting at them. Living in the Detroit Metro area, I know a bit about crime. Even Detroit's Mayor was a corrupt, as the nation knows, and this trickled all the way down the system! There are some wonderful police officers, some even outstanding, but there are also many that shouldn't be cops. Unfortunatly, they all get guns and tazers.

I have been pulled out of a car, by a cop, a couple times..., heh.., and no tazer was needed for them to somehow cuff me and put me in the car. This was years ago, and I was let go, because all I was really guilty of was my language, attitude, and resistance, when it came down to it. In those days, I had anger-management issues, heh.


Mary Neal (183)
Sunday June 14, 2009, 4:26 pm
I just hope the great grandmother is still OK a month from now. Many times, taser effects can be just as deadly in a delayed reaction. That was a violent fall, also. The Taser knocked her to the ground.

Some cops have tasered small children, also. I know that police officers are taught that Tasers are non-lethal weapons. But the day is long past when they can claim to believe that. They get the news like you and I do. They all know that Tasers OFTEN kill people.

The man simply did not care at all if he killed this woman or not. He did not wonder if she broke something in her fall. He just stood over her and threatened to taser her again because she was in such agony she could not get her hands back behind her back.

I have an elderly mohter. Sometimes it is hard for her to reach both arms all the way behind her back, and she was never tasered and thrown to the ground. The little lady said, "I can't, I can't. I'm trying."

I think the man wanted to murder her.

Lots of police who do these things are not "BAD COPS." Their problem is sometimes mental illness. Other times it is steroids. Lots of cops have steroid problems that make them overly aggressive. They take the steroids to be in top form, and the drugs cook their brians. The wrestler who killed his family was on steroids.

The man was out of control. He saw the elderly woman as a someone who deserved multiple Tasing, and possibly death. He simply felt R-A-G-E.


Mary Neal (183)
Sunday June 14, 2009, 4:31 pm
Tell me what you think about this.

If you or I cause a bad accident, we would likely be subjected to sobriety tests and perhaps blood tests for drugs. I think police officers who use deadly force or discharge a taser on someone need to undergo tests - for liquor and drugs, including steroids. Right after the incident. What do you think?

. (0)
Sunday June 14, 2009, 4:41 pm
I think that's an excellent idea, Mary. Although the police are already subject to random drug testing in Austin. But it would be reasonable to insist upon tests after any situation in which someone is injured, tasered, etc.

Past Member (0)
Sunday June 14, 2009, 4:42 pm
Somebody please start a petition to ban Tasers. They are being used for any reason by too many chuckleheads behind the badge. Whats next " Hey, I saw you drop that gum wrapper "- ZZZZAP!!! "that'll learn ya".

Sunday June 14, 2009, 4:59 pm
Good cops, overstressed cops, and bad cops... not one person on this thread has seen the entire video... further investigation shows that she refused to obey a lawful order... not six times... but nine times!

The video clearly shows that the officer attempted handcuffing the out of control citizen who was placing herself and the officer at risk of injury or death.

Fact: The Officer in the video is Highly trained and certified with the use of Tasers... in fact he is the trainer!

She initially refused to sign the ticket.... that is all she had to do... it is her conduct that caused the officer to use the Taser on her... it is her conduct including resisting arrest that caused the situation... if she is that easily agitated then that lady has no business of ever driving again!

The officer followed the book and handled the situation correctly!

Regardless of what anybody says on this thread... that lady now has a very expensive time consuming situation that she brought on herself!

Do not argue with a person who has a badge and gun... you argue your case in the courtroom!


Darlene K (356)
Sunday June 14, 2009, 4:59 pm
I have to agree with Chris..., just ban them. There is too much room for abuse. oh and noted and thank you.

Richelle R (62)
Sunday June 14, 2009, 5:08 pm
I don't feel sorry for either party. The woman was driving too fast and then pushed the limits with the cop. And if she has dementia, she shouldn't be driving. The cop was a jerk. It was a no win situation.

Darlene K (356)
Sunday June 14, 2009, 5:11 pm
Sentinels..., I try to leave my emotions out of a discussion of a serious content, well..., maybe sometimes I try to be humorous. Emphasis on "try", heh. How do you think they arrested 72 years old women that resisted arrests, before tasers???? Cops around here just laugh and agree with them, as they use the "here we go again," attitude. Remember, they have to take classes on human behavior, which includes those that are mentally unstable. I went the same college that our police academy trains to become a cop. I assure you, he didn't NEED a taser, with a 72 year old woman. That is the point.

As for the officer followed the book, well I think that is part of the problem, they have this wide authority of using tasers. These cops don't know the medical history of everyone, and that is like saying, anyone deserves a harmful or fatal punishment, if they resist an arrest, unarmed!

Not logical and very "overkill" pun intended. I can't believe you actually think it would be IMPOSSIBLE for this cop to arrest this woman, without a taser.....

Sunday June 14, 2009, 5:13 pm

You wrote: "If you or I cause a bad accident, we would likely be subjected to sobriety tests and perhaps blood tests for drugs. I think police officers who use deadly force or discharge a taser on someone need to undergo tests - for liquor and drugs, including steroids. Right after the incident. What do you think?"

I agree with you on that one!

It is just very unfortunate that a majority of people on this thread have so little knowledge or understanding of how one should conduct themselves when pulled over by the police; it is very disappointing to read posts that reflect a lack of understanding of what the laws say; it is not surprising to read peoples ignorance about Tasers but it is disappointing to read the complete lack of appreciation of what law enforcement officers duties really means.

That poor officer was in a no win situation and handled it very well!


Maggie A (201)
Sunday June 14, 2009, 5:15 pm
OK, I haven't finished reading all of the comments posted here, but I read about this a few days ago. Even if she was combative to the officer who pulled her over, did she deserve to be shocked with a Taser? No! Just because she dared him to do it does not mean that he should have. Tasers are used far too frequently and irresponsibly(sp?).

Sunday June 14, 2009, 5:23 pm
Dar D,

Are you a Police Officer?

So you went to a college that also happens to train police... that doesn't mean a thing!

My Dad was a cop, my uncle was a cop, my brother was a cop, my cousin was a cop and none of that means a thing!

I saw the video... and the video shows the final moments that she brought on herself... her sex, age, and the number of children, grandchildren and great-grandchildren doesn't mean a thing... she broke numerous laws and now she is whining about it!

Based on what I saw and based on my knowledge, experience and understanding of the law... she needs a lawyer to help her avoid jail and the fines!


Cynthia Davis (340)
Sunday June 14, 2009, 5:23 pm
All you people who say age doesn't matter I hope your singing the same tune when your 72. If this old woman had been a dog or cat you people would want the death penalty for this cop. Old people get cantankerous sometimes but they don't need to be tasered for it. You people out to crucify this woman for her behavior don't seem to get that this could have killed her. It doen't matter what she did this could have been handled better if this cop had wanted to handle it. It is very clear that the cop was in no danger and he could have called for back up if he felt he wasn't big enough to handle her. Tasers should be outlawed they kill people.

Cynthia Davis (340)
Sunday June 14, 2009, 5:28 pm
Marggie Amaya you are wise beyond your years my friend.

. (0)
Sunday June 14, 2009, 5:28 pm
Yes, tasers sometimes kill. So do bare knuckles, choke holds, guns, batons, tear gas canisters, and a whole host of other things used in law enforcement. But we don't outlaw them. We recognize that they all have a place in police work.

Darlene K (356)
Sunday June 14, 2009, 5:31 pm
Sentinels, I shared that information to let you know that I am well aware of "how" trained police officers in our area, are trained. I already sensed you have a family in the police force, of your area. It is very obvious, and this is why I don't believe you can give an unbias opinion. I have many cop friends so I wouldn't comment if I wasn't aware, and the jails don't have room for rude elderly people that are mentally unstable.

It would be a miracle to me, if your generations of family, didn't know a fellow unstable cop. Not ALL cops are outstanding ones or stable. Same with doctors and other professions.

Sunday June 14, 2009, 5:33 pm

You ignore the fact that her actions could have caused the death of the officer!

You ignore the fact that her actions could have caused her own death by stepping out into traffic!

If she can not conduct herself in a civil manner then she should not be driving!

Her own reckless driving endangered the public including the lives of the construction workers as she raced through the construction zone... my reply would be for her to take all of the comments of her supporters on this thread and go tell it to the judge!

She has a lot of explaining to do and she needs a good lawyer to get her out of the mess that she so willingly placed herself in... based on her conduct in that video and the treatment of the officer... she should never be allowed to drive!


Darlene K (356)
Sunday June 14, 2009, 5:35 pm
yeah right Lindsey, using bare knuckles, choke holds, a gun, baton, or tear gas, in this type of case????? That is what we are talking about, a 72 year old woman armed with an unrespectful and resisting ATTITUDE.

Darlene K (356)
Sunday June 14, 2009, 5:36 pm
Oh and Sentinels you never answered my question, of how do you think they arrested the elderly, before tasers?

Sunday June 14, 2009, 5:39 pm
Dar D,

If you knew me, you would not offer explanations or defenses... you bring up great points and I enjoy reading your posts!

(Cynthia Davis could tell you that if she took the time to notice my writing style... she might want to send me yet another friend request!)

I enjoy creative discourse and will defend my position with an open mind... I suspect that you would do the same!

Sunday June 14, 2009, 5:46 pm
Dar D,

What was done Twenty, Thirty or Fifty years ago, before the Taser, no longer applies. We have a difference in attitudes, culture and today's elderly are not the same as yesteryears elderly.

This generation of elderly.... go back Fifty years when they where young and tell me what their values were at that time!

. (0)
Sunday June 14, 2009, 5:46 pm
noted thank you

Darlene K (356)
Sunday June 14, 2009, 5:48 pm
No prob. I respectfully agree to disagree, and I do respect your position...much love and peace...namaste

. (0)
Sunday June 14, 2009, 5:51 pm
Well, once upon a time, they might well have brained them with their batons. Twisted their arms behind their backs involuntarily, perhaps breaking a bone or two or causing a dislocated shoulder. Put them in a choke hold, possibly crushing their windpipes. Jumped them and pushed them to the ground, again possibly breaking some fragile bones in the process. One way or another, the officer is likely to be in a no-win situation with many.

Of course, the best way of arresting the elderly is to ask them to put their hands behind their backs (as the officer here did), with the elderly person actually complying with the order.

Sunday June 14, 2009, 5:51 pm
I really don't understand why people are complaining.... she is 72 years old and was Tasered....

Folks, she is all charged up now and ready to go!

Give her a bunny tail, bunny ears, some cool shades and a drum and turn her loose!

Rebecca H (29)
Sunday June 14, 2009, 7:07 pm
I know I will be old someday and I also know that if I am still able to drive that I will probably be speeding but I also know that then, like now, when I get a ticket, all I do is be nice to the officer, hand him a gospel track, thank him for doing his job and invite him to our church. AND before you start, yes.. that is exactly what I have done before. It is not the officer’s fault if I choose to drive fast. It also seems that the older the posters are here, the less they sympathize with the 72 yr old lady, I know many 72 yr old people who can out do any of us physically, mentally, and emotionally. Her age is no excuse, if it is, will someone please tell me at what age I can start breaking the law and getting by with it?

Cynthia Davis (340)
Sunday June 14, 2009, 8:10 pm
Lindsey O. said,
"Yes, tasers sometimes kill. So do bare knuckles, choke holds, guns, batons, tear gas canisters, and a whole host of other things used in law enforcement. But we don't outlaw them. We recognize that they all have a place in police work."

Yes and one of those places would be recognizing that you don't taser 72 year old women.
You people still don't get it. Electric shock can kill you. Tasers have killed much large young men. Not to mention the fact that it can damage brain cells. What do you think happens to people when they are struck by lighting. A 72 year old has a aged heart and I don't care how many older people you know that you think are just as healthy as you, they are not. This cop had no way of knowing how healthy this older woman was and no matter what excuse you come up with will make tasering a 72 year old right I don't care how belligerent she was. Tasers are just something some cops are using so they don't have to bother with doing there job because its so much easier to taser someone into a comatose state so they can get cuffs on them then it is to have to wrestle with them. And braining someone with a baton or breaking bones seems a hole lot better to me then death from eletric shock. And until the day come when a cop gets so good at his job that he can tell if a person is healthy enough to not die from being tasered I say they should be outlawed.

Rhonda Maness (580)
Sunday June 14, 2009, 8:32 pm
Sunday, June 14, 2009, 5:39 PM Thank You

Cynthia Davis (340)
Sunday June 14, 2009, 8:50 pm
Sentinels Watch wrote,
"(Cynthia Davis could tell you that if she took the time to notice my writing style... she might want to send me yet another friend request!)"

Ya, by the way why didn't you except my friend request!
I do like allot of what you have to say but I am going to have to respectfully disagree on this one. I don't like tasers at all.

greenplanet e (155)
Sunday June 14, 2009, 9:21 pm
Well, she was irascible, but she did offer to sign the ticket. The officer looked like a bully, shoving her so hard and yelling at her to get down when she had already fallen. The use of the taser was way over the top and inappropriate for an elderly person. You can't predict how tasering will affect someone.

Kit B (276)
Sunday June 14, 2009, 9:59 pm
I have to wonder what the out cry would be if the officer had used his size to restrain her and place this woman in cuffs. Police brutality, this is a no win situation, the police have a job to do, none us wants to be caught breaking a traffic law, but when it happens the wise move is to sign the ticket and then go to court and fuss. Tasers may carry a certain danger, but so does using physical force - so because she is 72 she should be allowed to just walk away?

greenplanet e (155)
Sunday June 14, 2009, 10:24 pm
Well, she did say to give her the ticket and she'd sign it - and he didn't. Maybe it wouldn't have escalated to the point of tasering if he'd kept calm and done that. I don't think anyone's said that she should be allowed to just walk away, but the police must come across "difficult" types every day - there's gotta be other ways of handling things and police have training in de-escalating a situation. If both parties get angry it just makes the situation worse.

Cynthia Davis (340)
Sunday June 14, 2009, 11:01 pm
Kit, I would be the last person to say she should walk away. She clearly broke the law and was belligerent beyond belief and probably deserved to go to jail. But tasering is a very vicious thing to do to any body let alone a 72 year old that could or could not have had health issues. Older people do have health problems its part of getting old. I will agree that every thing she done was wrong but you or I do not know what state of mind she was in to cause her to act the way she did. There are allot of people out there with mental problems that can not help the way they act and strike out at people out of fear. I just think there has to be a better way of subduing people without taking the chance of tasering them to death. And tasers kill people. If this woman had died would we still say well she brought it on herself, its her own fault she's died oh well.

Monday June 15, 2009, 2:20 am
Koo J,

If you took time to investigate, you would find out that she originally refused to sign the ticket! Also, she refused to follow lawful orders nine times. She then resisted arrest!

She has nobody to blame but herself and can now go tell it to the judge!

Cynthia you wrote: "Ya, by the way why didn't you except my friend request!"

Yes I did!

greenplanet e (155)
Monday June 15, 2009, 3:39 am
Maybe she originally refused to sign the ticket, but she offered to when out of the car, before the officer started getting rough with her. Even if she refused to sign it, the normal procedure after that is a fine or court appearance. Tasers (if used at all) are for extreme situations, not for bad-tempered little old ladies. The taser was excessive, in this case. What next, tasering for littering?

Sheila G (267)
Monday June 15, 2009, 5:12 am
shove that taser up his dark and ugly on high!
who needs a cop who can't handle this slight situation without possible deadly force? let him in YOUR neighborhood, you can be the next victim.
ty Mary, he needs gone!

Cynthia Davis (340)
Monday June 15, 2009, 9:16 am
Sentinels Watch, I don't know what happened but you are not on my friend list and I am not on yours. So I will request again OK. I do agree with you most of the time. Just not on this one. Well I'm done arguing about it any way. I can see everyones point of view here I just really do not like the use of tasers on anyone let alone a old woman. If they must be used it should be only on very violent people. But I would like to see them outlawed altogether.

Janet G (108)
Monday June 15, 2009, 1:47 pm
Lindsay, there are more deaths and injuries inflicted on the public than on police. A person over 70 years old is not as strong as an 18 year old or 50 year old. Get real in your little make believe perfect world where all police are heros and any rebellion by citizens should be punished. I agree that police have to be very careful and I understand their paranoia, but they stlll need to exercise a little caution when dealing with an older person who is more fragile than a younger person. A police officer becomes a police officer and believe me knows the risks of it. A child is also more fragile than an adult but that doesn't mean they should be man-handled. Someday you will be 70 and perhaps your own thoughts will become your own mirror and reality. You are just too good for the real world.

Mary Neal (183)
Monday June 15, 2009, 1:50 pm
Here is an interesting comment posted at the site of this article at

David Williams (not verified)
at 13:12 on June 11th, 2009

As an "old school" Texas law enforcement officer with over 20 years experience in the field I found the video to be very uncomfortable to watch. I started out in law enforcement back in the early 80's when all we had were batons. In the 90's police officer's switched to using ASP's (we all know how those can be employed if you are familiar with LAPD and Rodney King) and as technology advanced, the taser was issued. I was always taught growing up that you were to be respectful to law enforcement officers, but my parents also taught me to be respectful to my elders as well. Yes, if you refuse to sign a speeding ticket a law enforcement officer has the obligation and duty to place you under arrest, but he also has all the pertinent information on the ticket to have an arrest warrant issued for you if you fail to appear in court. It used to be that 80% of law enforcement work involved public relations, some of us out there have forgotten that. I feel it could have been handled another way by both parties involved. We should all never forget to live by The Golden Rule.


Mary Neal (183)
Monday June 15, 2009, 1:52 pm
Somebody else wrote a suggestion that police need to be dispatched to the Austin, Texas officer's house (the Taser-happy policeman) and check on his mother and grandma. Make sure they are OK.

Mary Neal (183)
Monday June 15, 2009, 2:06 pm

Don't ever let this man patrol an area in the vacinity of a nursing home, and NEVER send him to look for any Alzheimer's victims who wander away. No telling what condition they will be in when he brings them back.

You might want to consider ordering more punching bags and a couple of pasteboard Taser targets for your police department gyms to afford officers the opportunity to work their aggression before hitting the streets. Videos like this that show great grandmothers being tasered are a disgrace no matter what anyone says, and I feel certain that most law enforcement officers agree. This man is a shame to the Austin PD, to the USA, and to his mother.

Monday June 15, 2009, 2:18 pm
Her own reckless driving endangered the public including the lives of the construction workers as she raced through the construction zone... my reply would be for her to take all of the comments of her supporters on this thread and go tell it to the judge!

She has a lot of explaining to do and she needs a good lawyer to get her out of the mess that she so willingly placed herself in... based on her conduct in that video and the treatment of the officer... she should never be allowed to drive!

. (0)
Monday June 15, 2009, 2:28 pm
On the contrary, Jan - the "real world" is where I live. Where not all cops are heroes and not all grandmothers are benign. And where life is messy. And where things don't always happen the way we would like them to. And where sometimes people do things that put them in harm's way due to their own actions. And where sometimes hard choices have to be made. And where nothing is ever going to please everyone at all times.

That's the real world.

Brigitte T (69)
Monday June 15, 2009, 2:41 pm
Mary, Thank you for posting this.

I can think only of 2 words for the action of this police officer: shame and cowardice. And the support he received on this thread is sickening. It is very concerning to see how many people have a police state mindset.

Traditional human values seem lost... I always thought that the police should protect the population. That the elderly and children, and pregnant women should be handled with more caution. Yes, arrest them when they break the law or lack respect. Give them a fine, send them to court if needed. If they're drunk and driving, take away their car, their licence, etc. But this is abuse. This woman was obviously not a threat to him. He looked totally incompetent, no wonder he could not think of anything else than excessive force, regardless of any possible lethal results. I wonder what he'd have said if another police officer had done that to his mother or grandmother in a similar situation?

Taser guns are not toys. They are torture. There are many reports on them and petitions to have them banned.

I totally agree with Amnesty International when they say that " the government should limit use of the weapons to life-threatening situations or stop using them altogether because of their potentially lethal effects and ease of abuse. "
Amnesty International's 2004 Report on TASER Gun Abuse

extensive report, very long, cannot be posted here, but very informative.

US teenager killed by police Taser attack
Pittsburgh Police officers use Tasers on a restrained protester in August 2005
23 March 2009
A 15-year-old boy died after he was shocked with a Taser gun in Michigan on Sunday. Amnesty International has said this shows the imperative need for further tests on the safety of the electro-shock weapon.

"This case shows, once again, police use of a Taser in what appears to have been a non-life threatening situation," said Angela Wright, US researcher at Amnesty International. "There have to be ways of restraining an unarmed teenager other than using electro-shock weapons.

"Taser guns are not the safe weapons they are portrayed to be. A full investigation into their safety needs to be carried out before more people suffer the consequences of their misuse."

A police news release stated that the boy – who has not been named – was shocked when he "attempted to fight" Bay City officers responding to reports of an argument between two males in an apartment. The boy was reported to have been in medical distress immediately after being shocked and was pronounced dead in hospital.

He is the second minor to have died in the USA this year after being shocked with a Taser, according to information gathered by Amnesty International. The total number of deaths after the use of Taser guns in the US has risen to 351 since June 2001.

Last December, Amnesty International issued a report reiterating its concerns about the safety of stun weapons in law enforcement. The study cited medical concerns suggesting that their use can kill individuals already compromised by drugs, exertion or ill-health. The report also cited cases of apparently healthy individuals dying after being shocked.

In January, an unarmed 17-year-old boy in Virginia died after police responding to a minor street incident shocked him in his apartment.

In March last year, Darryl Turner, also aged 17, died when police used a Taser on him after an argument in the store where he worked in North Carolina.

A video tape showed an officer fire Taser darts into Darryl Turner's chest as the unarmed teenager stood with his arms by his side. The coroner ruled his cause of death to be a fatal disturbance of the heart rhythm due to stress and the Taser shocks. His death is one of at least 50 nationwide where coroners have ruled that Tasers were a cause or contributory factor.

"It's disturbing to see any deaths resulting from unnecessary levels of police force, or from weapons which have not been rigorously tested or controlled," said Angela Wright.

Amnesty International has called on US law enforcement departments to cease using Tasers, pending further safety studies, or to strictly limit their use to situations where they are necessary to protect life and avoid the use of police firearms.
Read More
Tasers – potentially lethal and easy to abuse

Taser Guns Linked to 334 Deaths by Amnesty International

December 17th, 2008 • Filed Under: News • 7 Comments
feature photo

Amnesty International has released a report which links 334 deaths to the use of Taser guns between 2001 and August 2008. Contrary to claims by the manufacturer that the stun guns deliver non-lethal shocks, the Amnesty International indicates that the government should limit use of the weapons to life-threatening situations or stop using them altogether because of their potentially lethal effects and ease of abuse.

Taser International claims that their stun guns are safe and non-lethal. However, Amnesty International challenges these claims, releasing a detailed report about the safety of Taser guns, titled “USA: Less than lethal?”

The Taser gun is designed to incapacitate neuromuscular function by delivering a shock that uses Electro-Muscular Disruption technology. Many law enforcement agencies have deployed the weapons to allow police to incapacitate someone who poses a threat, but there have also been a number of reports of overuse and abuse of the weapons, which could have fatal consequences.

“Tasers are not the ‘non-lethal’ weapons that they are portrayed to be,” said Angela Wright, author of an Amnesty International report that was released on December 16, 2008.

The report found that 90% of the Taser gun deaths examined involved people who were unarmed and did not appear to present a serious threat. In addition, many of the deaths were associated with repeated use of the weapons or prolonged shocks that were longer than the standard five seconds.

Out of the 334 deaths identified nationwide which involved the use of Taser guns, Amnesty International indicates that at least 50 have been directly attributed to the Taser shocks by medical examiners and coroners.

According to Bloomberg News, Taser International is currently a party in at least 40 Taser gun wrongful death lawsuits or personal injury cases, and they have previously been dismissed from over 70 other cases.

The first Taser lawsuit that resulted in a verdict against the manufacturer of the weapon was returned in June 2008 by a California jury, who awarded $6.2 million to the family of a man who died after receiving multiple shocks from a Taser gun.

Janet G (108)
Monday June 15, 2009, 2:41 pm
Lindsay, that was "Profound" (in your real world)

. (0)
Monday June 15, 2009, 2:45 pm
Nope. Merely commonsensical.

Mary Neal (183)
Monday June 15, 2009, 2:55 pm
I bet that officer beats his wife, unless she left him already. I wish some news investigator would interview him. I would like to hear what he has to say for his actions. Elder abuse is a disgrace - right up there with child abuse in my thoughts. SHAME, SHAME, SHAME ON YOU, OFFICER! BAD, BAD MAN!

Brigitte T (69)
Monday June 15, 2009, 2:59 pm
Another example of how the elderly are treated - no taser guns this time but the same police state mentality.

Loheac's death shines light on state's dark secret
By Bob Fitch
Sunday, March 8, 2009
http://www.venturac ountystar. com/news/ 2009/mar/ 08/loheacs- death-shines- light-on- states-dark- secret/?partner= RSS
Helen Loheac died Jan. 5 in custody at a Madera hospital. The world will little remember this 86-year-old, 5-foot- tall, 90-pound lady. Helen had suffered serious health problems for most of the 17 years she had been incarcerated in the California Institution for Women in Corona.
About 11 months ago, she was transferred to the medical unit of the Central California Women's Facility near Chowchilla. Her health situation required she go to a hospital three times weekly for dialysis because her kidneys were failing.
Helen was shackled, waist-chained and transported by two armed guards when she went for her dialysis treatment. She was often confused and frightened and the prison environment was very difficult for her. Although she posed no threat to society, Helen, at the time 85, was denied parole because of "inadequate employment plans."
Are you angry?
Helen's continuing incarceration should have been considered cruel and unusual punishment after 17 years for a crime in which no one was harmed, injured or killed. She was convicted for conspiracy to commit murder, which was orchestrated by her son. She received a term of 25 years to life.
Does that upset you?
Helen and others like her are the focal point of a program instituted by Gloria Killian of Pasadena, herself an inmate for 16 years for a crime of which she was innocent and was totally exonerated.
In fact, the prosecuting district attorney in her case has been tried for mishandling her trial. Since her release, Killian has founded Action Committee for Women in Prison and now dedicates her life to working on behalf of "the ladies inside." One of the many projects under the ACWIP umbrella is Parole Aged Women Now. I quote from her ACWIP Web site: "It is an effort to focus public and governmental attention on the plight of elderly women trapped inside the prison system. These women are old, sick and frail, posing no threat to anyone in the community."
There is no retirement age in prison, the elderly often climb into the top of a three-level bunk because younger inmates have no concern for them and they get no preference in the medicine or food lines.
Helen was among 10,000 low-risk, frail, incarcerated elders who, as a result of the passing of Proposition 9 in November, may forever be denied any hope of release. It allows, among other things, the Board of Parole Hearings to defer an inmate up to 15 years for another parole hearing when they are denied.
Had she lived, Helen could have waited until she was 100 years old before repetitioning the board for release.
Are you angry now?
There is a provision for compassionate release, whereby the Board of Parole Hearings and governor can parole a terminally ill inmate. Few are approved to die a free person.
Helen's continued incarceration was a huge and costly burden to the California taxpayers at a time when the state is broke. Her final weeks of hospitalization probably cost the state of California a quarter of a million dollars. That is money out of our pockets. Elderly inmates cost at least $70,000 a year to incarcerate.
The taxpayers of California are paying for a group of prisoners that costs the most to keep behind bars, but poses the least threat to public safety. The salaries of prison guards who must accompany an inmate to a hospital or for other off-site medical appointments are a huge part of the total expense of imprisoning the elderly.
It is difficult to watch a loved one or friend age in prison, being denied justice and proper medical care year after year. I have yet to understand how a person can be found suitable for parole by the BPH and then be denied by the governor, which that office has the authority to do. Then, at subsequent hearings, be approved up to four to six times, only to be turned down continually due to "public safety concerns."
This, in itself, constitutes cruel and unusual punishment. Recidivism among the elderly is under 2 percent.
I urge you to visit the ACWIP site at http://www.acwip. net and become educated to a monumental problem that is California's dark little secret.


Brigitte T (69)
Monday June 15, 2009, 3:03 pm

Man's stun gun death caught on tape police tazer taser

A video showing the last moments of a Polish immigrant, who died after Canadian police shot him with a stun gun at Vancouver International Airport, has been made public.

Dee C (23)
Monday June 15, 2009, 3:09 pm
The real world would be any one of you here actually walking in the shoes of LE..Actually out there dealing with the many things they have to deal with..for just one day..
It's so easy to sit back safely and judge them..and the same ones who are judging them..would still do matter what action this officer took..

If he didn't tase her and instead wrestled with her to restrain and cuff her..people would still be saying he shouldn't have done that or this..because of the mindset on LE..and or tasers..

But.. I bet without a doubt that if and when anyone needed help from LE..they wouldn't hesitate a moment to call on them..

There has never been a death from a taser..those that have died..have died due to a bad heart..or some other ailing health factor..

Also..what no one ever talks about is all the lives tasers do save..and that is tenfold to the injuries/deaths..

But bottom line is..if you are in the wrong..if you are doing something criminally..well you are going to be arrested..if you run..resist..fight back..act out in a manner as this woman are going to make it worse..
These are the ones that force LE to take stronger measures..They do not tase or shoot..or wrestle with anyone who is complying..

Why is that so hard to understand..


Mary Neal (183)
Monday June 15, 2009, 3:11 pm
Thank you, Brigette, for posting those articles on Taser weaponry. There was a time when police officers may have been unaware that they took a chance on killing subjects by tasering them, because they are taught otherwise. However, all of them know that now. They know about the heart attacks that frequently follow Tasering. This policeman simply believed that the old lady deserved to possibly DIE because she back-talked him. He apparently valued his exalted ego over her life. He recognized like ALL OTHER POLICE OFFICERS DO that he took a chance on killing her by Tasering her, but it was a chance he was willing to take because he was overtaken with rage at her for not obeying him. Undress his children, teachers, and look for the marks. I am sure they are there somewhere!

Regarding wrongful death lawsuits related to Tasers, Brigette, after the first victory, it became quite hard to get a successful verdict. This is because some medical examiners were made to softpeddle Taser as being the cause of death in many cases. In fact, one medical examiner was Ordered by a judge to delete all references to Taser from her autopsy report! You know things are pretty bad when a judge tells a medical examiner what she can put as cause of death, right? The Taser industry is rich and powerful. Another problem is that the M.E. office is a county office, medical examiers are salaried by the same county budgets that fund the police departments. Medical examiners have been caught LYING on their reports in order to help police offenders. Yes! So the real Taser death toll is probably much greater than what Amnesty International reports.

There is a big PUSH on to re-name death by Taser something called "sudden death syndrome" and "excited delirium." Lots of judges and other officials have major stock in the Taser industry just as they do in private prisons. They might get the stock as Christmas presents from their friendly neighborhood lobbyists.


Mary Neal (183)
Monday June 15, 2009, 3:14 pm
I figured that last comment would take us off the list on the top-righthand of the page. That did it! Thanks for your notes and comments, everyone!

Brigitte T (69)
Monday June 15, 2009, 3:16 pm
How to prevent a man from committing suicide: use a taser gun - he'll lose balance and fall from the building and die just the same... but you will have prevented him from committing suicide.

Man falls to death after police stun gun shock (video and article)

Officials probe whether officer violated guidelines; new focus on Taser use

"Browne said guidelines specifically prohibit the use of stun guns when the subject may fall from an elevated surface. "

. (0)
Monday June 15, 2009, 3:18 pm
Comments don't get a story bumped off the list - that happens to every story once interest starts waning and fewer people are noting the story.

Brigitte T (69)
Monday June 15, 2009, 3:32 pm
Thank you for your comments and info, Mary. It's a huge issue, as you said it's once again all about money, it's also loss of values, lack of proper training and instruction, or ignorance, and in certain cases a degree of sadism.

I will not track the comments after this, the atmosphere in this thread is really unhealthy, literally. But thank you again for posting this.

Dee C (23)
Monday June 15, 2009, 3:54 pm
Tasers save lives..both police and suspects.. Don't blame cops for the dangerous situations that people put themselves in..I think it is unfortunate that people don't also appreciate the dangerous job that law enforcement is asked to perform every day..

Sheila G (267)
Monday June 15, 2009, 3:58 pm
some people don't know the real world because they have yet to live it, life can be soft and it makes people become hypocritcal, but hard life, it's coming to everyone sooner than later, and kissing the ass of the government officials won't save you, they hate everyone sooner or later.
thanx again Mary

Cynthia Davis (340)
Monday June 15, 2009, 5:27 pm
I lied I'm not done.
I wish certain people would not presume to know that those of us who don't like seeing old women tasered don't appreciate the police. I appreciate the police. There are allot of very good policemen out there and yes they put up with allot of crap on a daily basses thats there job. But not all of them are saints and quite allot of people seem to be dieing in there hands these days do to tasers. If one of these people were a member of your family I guarantee you would not be saying, well they put their self in that situation I guess they deserve what they got even if it killed them. Say don't blame the cops for the dangerous situations that people put themselves in is the same as say if you die from been tasered by the cops you deverved it and in my book that about as heartless as you can get.

. (0)
Monday June 15, 2009, 5:38 pm
If a person is trying to elude the police in a car and the police are in pursuit and the person spins out of control and dies in a car crash - that person didn't "deserve to die" - but the police still had a right to go in pursuit, even though they know such a pursuit can end in the fleeing person's death by car crash. Or if a physically resisting suspect must be wrestled to the ground and his neck is broken while he's flailing around in the struggle and he dies. He didn't "deserve to die" - but the police still had a right to wrestle him to the ground if he was resisting arrest. It isn't a question of whether someone "deserves to die" - no one does in that regard. It's a question whether the actions are reasonable - and they can still be reasonable even if the action ends in death.

Mary Neal (183)
Monday June 15, 2009, 6:10 pm
Not all the heartless people got voted out of office recently, because some of them never had an OFFICIAL position. Once I applied for a job as a paid online comment staffer. The successful candidates were hired to travel the Internet or would be assigned to specific networks to debunk views contrary to the employer's viewpoint. Do you know anything about that, Lindsey?

In any case, I agree with Cynthia. I believe most police officers would find the Austin, TX officer's conduct in Tasering a 72-yr-old great grandma abominable.

If Tasering someone (even a young person) who presents no threat to offices is not actionable in a court of law, it should be. Every time an officer discharges his Taser on a person, he/she risks killing the subject. That should only be done in cases where the officers have no other recourse, not just because the cop missed his morning coffee and a citizen talked back at him and refused to sign a traffic ticket. Police officers should not resort to potentially deadly force because someone disrespected them. This is how many mantal patients die - they don't have the wherewithal to give police officers proper respect and obey orders. I'm sure policemen also reun into rude behavior when encountering drunk drivers, too. But the proper response is NOT to Taser them and risk killing citizens because they offend officers' egos. Only another psychopath would think so.


Cynthia Davis (340)
Monday June 15, 2009, 6:14 pm
I thought we were discussing Tasers not car pursuits. But some states are starting to outlaw police car chases unless they are in pursuit of a violent offender because they have been causing the deaths of inocent people. The purpose of have police is to SERVE AND PROTECT. They don't say serve and protect unless you are a belligerent old 72 year old woman and then you have the right to taser her even it if might kill her.

. (0)
Monday June 15, 2009, 6:17 pm
Why on earth would you try to obtain such dishonest employment, Mary?

Rebecca H (29)
Monday June 15, 2009, 9:20 pm
Thanks for the invite to add my two cents in on this but I think it will be settled in a court of law. I fail to see how the age or size of someone has anything to do with the situation. I know several tiny old people that can probably woop my but, I've even seen small children punch areas that can bring a man to his knees... officers deal with a violent world and do not sit on their cushiony little hinnies and judge the actions of others performing their jobs the way they are trained to do. Yes.. officers get out of line at times but they are human... you come face to face with someone that might blow you away on a daily basis and lets see how you handle it. I am retiring from this thread, have fun with the repetitive debate.

Mary Neal (183)
Tuesday June 16, 2009, 2:09 am
Lindsey, being a paid commenter is only wrong if you don’t agree with what you write. I would never write anything I don’t believe, because I am not a phony. Being paid to promote something you believe in is what everyone who works at Amnesty International does, and Red Cross employees, and people who are paid lobbyists for products or causes they truly support. United Way has a paid staff, and college recruiters are paid. Many worthwhile organizations have people who are paid to write for them. The thing is that I would choose to announce myself as an employee of a given organization, so perhaps that is why I did not get the job as a paid online commenter. I think they work undercover, and I am an aboveboard person.

The reason I wonder if you are a paid commenter is because I give you credit for having more understanding than what you write sometimes. It is easy for most people to see that a big, strong policeman should not have Tasered a small, unarmed, 72-year-old woman. I posted above a response from a Texas officer who is ashamed of what the policeman in the video did. He was obviously as repulsed by it as most of us who commented are. I believe most other police officers feel like he does about this Tasering – it was unnecessary, mean-spirited, and it could have been debilitating or deadly for the elderly woman.

Police officers, I want to take this opportunity to thank you for the risks you face every day on behalf of keeping our society relatively safe. I recognize that each and every day that you report to work, you wear weaponry and deal with people who are at their worst, including drunk drivers, disrespectful teens, and sassy old ladies. Yet, you handle yourself with restraint and self-control. Day after day, you return to your homes without having used your billy clubs, pistols, or Taser weapons – not because you did not get disrespected that day, but because you yourselves are respectful and determined in your hearts not to misuse your power. Thank you very much. When you need a vacation or a sick day, please take one. We need you to go to work fresh. I hate that so many of you need to moonlight on a second job, and I wish very much that you were paid enough not to need to do that. Bless you who care for caring about your roles as protectors.

. (0)
Tuesday June 16, 2009, 5:31 am
People of both good conscience and intelligence, Mary, can indeed view the same situation and come to differing conclusions without being paid shills. I don't particularly recall the definition of 'intelligence' in Webster's including the phrase, "The thought processes exhibited by Mary Neal." I hate to be the one to break it to you, but there are indeed other legitimate ways of looking at the world.

Tuesday June 16, 2009, 6:05 pm

Most people don't know what a Taser is or does... which is why they are all crying for the lady who broke the law and failed to obey an officer, then resisted arrest!

Cynthia Davis (340)
Wednesday June 17, 2009, 7:46 am
Sentinels Watch, my new good friend who I have the greatest respect for.
I no exactly what a Stud Gun or Taser is and what it does to you. The first thing that happens is these little wires come shoting out with a force hard enough to cause two hook to dig into your skin, then comes the shock whitch is quite painful and you lose all your bodily functions and you pee and sometimes shit all over yourself and fall hard to the ground because you have no bodily functions and can't breack your fall, after that your bain goes numb and you can't think straight and if your lucky and the fall didn't brake something or the shock didn't kill you the guy behind the Taser won't zap you again, but most times they do.
Taser or Stun Gun
A high-powered weapon marketed to police forces to stop "highly combative individuals." A burst of compressed nitrogen launches two small probes attached to the device by conductive wires. From as far as 10.6 metres, the device transmits electrical pulses through the wires to immobilize a person.
Amnesty International says that between 2001 and August 2008, 334 Americans died after Taser shocks. The stun gun was deemed to have caused or contributed to at least 50 of those deaths, Amnesty says, citing medical examiners and coroners. Most suspects were unarmed, and many were subjected to repeated or prolonged shocks, according to Amnesty.
The human rights group has called for governments to limit the use of stun guns or suspend their use.


Jenny D (830)
Wednesday June 17, 2009, 12:32 pm
Thanks for the news item, Mary.
I'm very much against the use of tasers by any police force anywhere around the world, except in life threatening conditions and with review part of set procedure. In my opinion tasers need to be thought of as 'less lethal' instead of 'non-lethal'.
Last year in Australia, an additional rollout of $1 million worth of tasers were delivered to senior officers at 80 Local Area Commands. NSW Police Commissioner Andrew Scipione said the Tasers had been deployed to defuse potentially life-threatening situations.
But in a report tabled in Parliament, Ombudsman Bruce Barbour expressed concerns they might be used in more commonplace situations.
"Police need to be extremely careful using Tasers," he said. "They are not a non-lethal weapon - they are just a less lethal weapon... Current police standard operating procedures relating to Taser use are inadequate... There are known risks with using Tasers, and police must receive clear, comprehensive and consistent guidance to ensure safe and effective use of this weapon."
Meanwhile, it's interesting to compare the situation of Kathryn Winklein with the situation of 17 year old teen under the influence in April this year. Headline: "Police fired a Taser at a fleeing driver in Geraldton Western Australia". Inspector George Macintosh said police would hold an internal review of the incident... Under police guidelines, any use of force is reviewed as a matter of course.,23599,25393875-1245,00.html?from=public_rss

Mary Neal (183)
Wednesday June 17, 2009, 12:50 pm
Thank you, Jenny. I like the definition given by Austrailia's Parliament, Ombudsman Bruce Barbour

"They are not a non-lethal weapon - they are just a less lethal weapons."

That is an apt description: LESS LETHAL. However, they are not any less lethal for the hundreds of victims who are dead today.

Thanks for your comments everyone. I even appreciate Lindsey and others who published opposing views. It is good not to have one-sided discussions on important issues. Obviously, many people who are given the responsibility to outfit our police officers feel as Lindsey does, or we would not have this problem. Therefore, it is good to have their viewpoint published in this article via those who presumably share their rationale:

1) folks who resist arrest deserve the death sentence - without court

2) folks who disrespect police officers deserve the death sentence - without court

3) no one gets too old or too young to deserve the death sentence by Taser for disrespecting officers or attempting to allude police

Wednesday June 17, 2009, 1:17 pm

Sorry, but there is a huge difference between a "Stun Gun" and a "Taser. There are not the same thing and one is effective and the other is worthless!"

A Stun Gun has to be in contact with the person... it uses off the shelf batteries... and college kids like to zap each other for fun. You can buy them for $35 to $150 dollars and they are a complete waste of money because they don't do much. An electric fence for horses or cattle has more zap than a "Stun Gun!"

A "Taser" costs, depending on the model $700 dollars to $1,300 dollars and has an effective range of 21 feet! It must be stressed that only a Taser shoots out wires... Stun Guns do not!

Once the Taser is used the cartridge must be replaced or the unit must be sent back to the manufacture and this is depending on the model! (Stun Guns can be used over and over which is why college kids zap each other with it for fun... again an electric horse fence has more zap to it than a stun gun!)

Here is a photo of a Taser in action:

Here is a photo of a Taser:

If you have $700 to $1200 dollars, you can purchase a real Taser that comes in designer colors:

This is not a Taser:

This is not a Taser:

It should be noted that Stun Guns use regular batteries and college students like to zap each other with them... so how bad can they really be?

My wife and I looked into a stun gun... the dealer who knew me, told me not to waste my money... he then loaded it up and zapped himself. I then took the 100,000 Volt stun gun and handed it to my wife and said, "Here Honey... try it out on me!"

She did!

She then handed it to me and said, "Honey try it out on me!"

I did!

Stung a bit... but wouldn't waste my time or money on the junk...

If you can afford a real Taser that will knock you on the ground... then buy a gun!


Dee C (23)
Wednesday June 17, 2009, 1:28 pm
Before going out to purchase a taser..check with your local it may or may not be legal for you to use as a civilian..Some states require registration and licensing in order to carry a taser.

As for LE..they are legal..and rightfully so..

Wednesday June 17, 2009, 1:30 pm
What is amazing to me... is how many people on this thread, who are up in arms about this, don't even know the difference between stun guns and a Taser!

The so called 100,000 volt stun guns don't do anything... it won't even knock you on the ground. The 300,000 volt stun gun is just as worthless as is the 500,000 volt stun gun... they don't do anything. They are cheap Chinese imitations that don't even come close to what a real Taser can do. Which is why police carry Tasers... they do not carry Stun Guns!

A 50,000 volt Taser will knock you on the ground!

A Taser is perfect for rude, nasty, mean spirited 72 year old's who are acting like their spoiled rotten grandchildren!

Dee C (23)
Wednesday June 17, 2009, 1:32 pm
I absolutely agree Sentinels..

. (0)
Wednesday June 17, 2009, 1:40 pm
I think I'll still consider getting another stun gun, Sentinels. It certainly wouldn't be of major use in a determined attack on me but I think it would cause enough temporary "stunning" that it could give a person time to get away from an attacker. And certainly better than nothing for personal protection outside of the home (since I don't own a pistol.)

Wednesday June 17, 2009, 1:43 pm

There is no temporary 'Stunning' from a stun gun... it gives out a small electric shock from some double A batteries... think about that for a moment. Stun Guns don't do anything but make a snapping sound. It won't paralyze you. It won't stun you. It won't knock you on the ground. It won't even numb the area that it touched!


Wednesday June 17, 2009, 1:47 pm

Can you imagine what that 72 year old ladies children and Grandchildren are like?

The people who are complaining on this thread should never ever complain about Gangs or Crime or how kids today lack respect... because we have the parents and Grandparents to blame! (As it is so obvious in the video!)

Wednesday June 17, 2009, 2:19 pm

If you are appalled by the violence against women, the assaults, robberies and rapes... and don't want to get a gun!

Women Defending Themselves From Violence


Cynthia Davis (340)
Wednesday June 17, 2009, 2:46 pm
This 72 year old woman was not shocked with the kind of stud gun you are talking about. There are many different kinds of stud guns out there that people can purchase for personal use they are in no way close to what the police call stun guns or tasers. The police use tasers but they sometimes call them stud gun. The stud guns and tasers that can be purchased by anyone are legal because they have no power. The stud guns and tasers used by the police are not legal to the public. You are trying to fool people into beileveing that the tasers police use are nothing more then the ones you can buy in a store and they are not and you no it.

. (0)
Wednesday June 17, 2009, 2:50 pm
No one is trying to "fool" anyone, Cynthia. Sentinels has already very thoroughly discussed the difference between stun guns and tasers.

Wednesday June 17, 2009, 2:51 pm

Nobody is trying to fool anybody... I clearly point out the differences and provide links for people to check out for themselves.

I can purchase a Police Issue Taser. Depending on the city and state, so can most people!


Wednesday June 17, 2009, 2:59 pm
Baby With Knife Held to Her Throat Saved by Amherst Police Use of TASER X26

SCOTTSDALE, Ariz., June 11, 2009 (GLOBE NEWSWIRE) -- TASER International, Inc. (Nasdaq:TASR), the market leader in advanced electronic control devices (ECDs) issued the following NEWS Alert:

According to an article in the June 11, 2009 edition of The Buffalo News entitled, "Taser used to save baby who had knife at her throat," Amherst officers in New York used a TASER(r) X26 ECD to disarm and subdue a 19-year-old man who already slashed the 6-month-old infant in her neck with a knife.

Wednesday June 17, 2009, 3:05 pm
As part of their training... Police Officers are hit with the Taser!

Police Officers Being Tasered

Wednesday June 17, 2009, 3:11 pm
Here is another video showing an officer demonstrating the Taser:

Ouch Ouch Ouch


Wednesday June 17, 2009, 3:17 pm
Here is a video... showing a wife Tasering her stupid husband with a Taser X26...

Stupid Husband Getting His Due!

Cynthia Davis (340)
Wednesday June 17, 2009, 3:18 pm
Sentinels Watch worte,

'Can you imagine what that 72 year old ladies children and Grandchildren are like?"

I would like to give you a lesseon in psychology but I don't have time. I grew up with a Mother who was a Paranoid Schizophrenic. She acted just like this woman sometimes because of her paranoia. And I think I turned out just fine and I know that my children and their childern are fine upstanding people, none of whitch have been in trouble with the law for any reason. My point is that you don't know anything about this woman. She could be mentally Ill. I am not saying that there aren't people out there that are just plain mean I'm just say you don't know anything about her or what she has been though in her life and saying something about her childern and grandchildern is mean. If some cop tasered my Mother because of her behavior I would be mad as hell and I wouldn't appreciate someone saying "can you imagine what that 72 year old ladies children and Grandchildren are like? Because they don't know me.

Wednesday June 17, 2009, 3:24 pm

You have told me this before and I do understand your point of view... but the expression that, "It Takes A Village To Raise A Child" is stupid and has no meaning in this country because of don't dare touch my child or dad or grandma for their bad behavior!

The lady violated the law, she endangered the life of the officer and her own life... speeding through a construction zone... she endangered the lives of workers and the public and after NINE separate orders by the police officer... which she ignored... she was Tasered!

Boo Hoo for her!

Wednesday June 17, 2009, 3:26 pm
Stupid Actors Getting Tased!

Stupid Actors Getting Tased


Cynthia Davis (340)
Wednesday June 17, 2009, 4:15 pm
OK I GIVE UP my freinds LOL

Wednesday June 17, 2009, 4:39 pm
Cynthia Davis,

"OK I GIVE UP...?"


Most of the people on this thread, who are upset, don't have a "Plan B!'

They don't know anything about the laws, guns, stun guns, Tasers, crime and they want to be safe. They just don't have a 'Plan B' and because of these simple facts, they protest for the sake of protesting!


. (0)
Wednesday June 17, 2009, 4:54 pm
Most people, Sentinels, have one plan and one plan only when they're in danger: yell for the police. And pray that the cavalry comes dashing over the hill in time to save them. Expecting all the while that those officers will be willing to risk life and limb to protect them when needed. We all call upon them when we're in need, and are damned grateful for their help. And part of my gratitude lies in accepting their right to have the means at their disposal to protect themselves from lawbreakers. To do anything else would be hypocritical to say the least.

Wednesday June 17, 2009, 5:00 pm

You wrote: "She could be mentally Ill. I am not saying that there aren't people out there that are just plain mean I'm just say you don't know anything about her or what she has been though in her life and saying something about her childern and grandchildern is mean."

Question: What did I say about her children and grandchildren?

Answer: I didn't say a thing... but I did ask a question!

90% of the people on this thread just don't get it! They don't understand simple basic facts!

The simple basic fact is that the lady was out of control and endangering the life of herself and the officer. She refused to obey lawful orders... Now lets speculate for a moment and pretend that the officer doesn't Taser her and lets her go...

Let us pretend for a moment that he lets her go and she drives off on her merry way... in the same reckless manner and has a head on collision with a school bus... killing several children in the process because it is to expensive to put seat belts in our school buses and they die because their little bodies have nothing holding them in their seats!

Who is at fault now?

The video is public record and in our pretend story... the officer let her go and she causes a accident that results in death!

While reading this fantasy story... please keep in mind that the person who posted the story loves to throw in little zingers that suggest that the woman is somehow mentally impaired... knowing full well that there is no evidence that the woman has any mental evidence... but that didn't stop the poster from planting that seed of deception!

Fact: The lady violated numerous laws; she endangered the life of the officer and her own life; she endangered the lives of construction workers and the public; she ignored NINE separate orders by the police officer; she resisted arrest... then she was Tasered, restrained and arrested!

And Care2 members want to blame the officer?

Cynthia Davis (340)
Wednesday June 17, 2009, 5:27 pm
Your trying to drag me back in and I'm not going to bit rhis fish has done swam down stream. I have already said I appreciate law enforcment and I'm damn glad there out there. LOL

Wednesday June 17, 2009, 5:32 pm

I am not trying to drag you in!

As a former member of my church(?) you should know better than that!

Wednesday June 17, 2009, 5:44 pm
The Entire 16 minute video!

Reckless 72 Year Old Lady


She threatens the officer... she uses her age against the officer... she assaults the officer... she deserves prison!


Cynthia Davis (340)
Wednesday June 17, 2009, 6:35 pm
I am no memeber of anyones church Sir and you are beating a dead dog enough is enough I don't see this the same way you do and lets just leave it at that. Please LOL

Mary Neal (183)
Wednesday June 17, 2009, 6:53 pm
That old lady deserved Tasering as much as a child who wets the bed. That's how inconvenient her actions were once the policeman had stopped her and exactly how much of a threat she posed to the officer. Citizens' lives should not be put at rixk by a PEACE OFFICER because someone verbally threatened them or "used their age" against them. The idea is ludicrous.

The illustration of police Tasering a man who held a knife to a child's throat after already cutting a child is a legimtimate use for a Taser - or even for bullets. The tasering of Ms. Kathryn does not rise to that level.

Thanks for the links.

I won't even try to list all the links of people who got the Taser death penalty in incidents where Taser use was inappropriate, but if you are interested in knowing about them, here is an online group for you:


Mary Neal (183)
Wednesday June 17, 2009, 7:33 pm
God bless us every one! I will TRY to retire from further comments on this thread. I will end by quoting Officer David Williams, another Texas policeman. He wrote, "We should all never forget to live by The Golden Rule."

I am glad no one ever Tasered me when I was sassy, or my mom or grandma. I hope we never live in a world where officers think that rudeness deserves a possible death penalty. I know most of them don't think like that, and I thank them.


Mary Neal
Assistance to the Incarcerated Mentally Ill

Thursday June 18, 2009, 2:05 am
I watched the entire video... and it shows a very different picture from the highly edited version that was deliberately posted on this site.

She is a foul mouthed person who assaulted a police officer... there is no evidence that she has any mental illness what-so-ever. It is very clear that she does not!

The video is very clear that she is a conniving and calculating criminal who tried to get out of a speeding ticket by repeatedly telling the officer that she was 72 years old as she swore, pleaded, and offered one lie after another!

When she refused to sign the ticket and demanded to be arrested... she gave the officer no choice. The officer was required to arrest her!


Thursday June 18, 2009, 2:24 am
Most people on this thread like to ignore the fact that the Taser has saved thousands of the Mentally Ill from injury and death, because back in the old days, the police could not tell the Mentally Ill from those under the influence of drugs, alcohol, mental illness or a combination of two or more!

Cynthia Davis (340)
Thursday June 18, 2009, 1:51 pm
What do you mean the old days, they still can't till the differance. Mental illness is a very difficult disease to diagnose sometimes even for a psychiatrist you can't just look at someone and till they are mental or even go by their actions. You don't know your pooty from a hole in the ground when it come to the mentally Ill and like I said before you have beat this dog to death. But you still go on and on and on thinking you will prove your point to us that don't agree with you and its not going to happen you are just making your self look foolish now. And to think I thought you had some smarts. Mental Illness is a very touchie subject with me and I think you are smart though to know that. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH

Thursday June 18, 2009, 3:20 pm
Funny how the article Does Not say that she has a mental illness!

I object to people assuming that old people have a mental illness... old age is not a disease!

I object to people excusing bad behavior because of age!


Thursday June 18, 2009, 3:26 pm

Read what the person posted: "Elderly people with dementia don't stand a chance against an Austin, TX police officer with a Taser. Kathryn Winkleen, age 72, was tasered for talking rudely to a policeman who pulled her over during a traffic stop!"

Then read what the person said when it was pointed out that the article didn't say the lady had dementia and didn't mention any mental defect what-so-ever... she responded by saying: "Lindsey, tell your bosses that I did not report that she has dementia."

So if the person does not have a mental illness, and the news didn't say anything about a mental illness and the poster claims that she did not report the lady as having a mental illness... Why does the subject keep on coming up?

If we can not tell by looking at a person... why are people claiming she is mentally ill?

She broke the law... she broke many laws and then lied about it to the reporters... it is all there in the video if you bother to watch the full 16 minutes!

I watched the video and she doesn't look sane or mentally ill!


Cynthia Davis (340)
Thursday June 18, 2009, 5:37 pm
Saints and Sinners

When somebody yields to temptation
And breaks one of man's or God's laws,
We look for no good in his make-up,
But oh! how we look for the flaws!
No one cares about how he was tempted,
Nor praises the battles he’s fought;
His name becomes food for the jackals --
For us who have never been caught.

“He has sinned!” we shout from the house-tops,
We forget the good deeds he has done,
We focus on that one lost battle,
And forget all the times he has won.
“Come, gaze at the sinner!” we thunder,
“And by his example be taught
That his footsteps lead to destruction!”
Cry we who have never been caught.

I’m a sinner, O Lord, and I know it,
I’m weak, I blunder, I fail.
I’m tossed on life’s stormy ocean
Like ships embroiled in a gale.
I’m willing to trust in Thy mercy,
To keep the commandments Thou’st taught,
But deliver me, Lord, from the judgement
Of saints who have never been caught!


Thursday June 18, 2009, 5:47 pm
Assume Nothing! Question Everything!


. (0)
Thursday June 18, 2009, 5:55 pm
You're quite right, Cynthia. We can and should only judge people on their actions and the known facts and not try and assume they are monsters in every other facet of their lives.

Which is why statements such as these about a police officer based upon his tasering of this woman are so very wrong:

"I think he wanted to kill her."

"I bet that officer beats his wife, unless she left him already."

"Undress his children, teachers, and look for the marks. I am sure they are there somewhere!"

I'm surprised you didn't openly object to such unsubstantiated judgmental statements, Cynthia.


Thursday June 18, 2009, 6:03 pm

One in four South African men questioned in a survey said they had raped someone, and nearly half admitted having attacked more than one victim.

Give the women a Taser!

Thursday June 18, 2009, 6:25 pm
A 69-year-old Jersey man, described as a ruthless paedophile, has been found guilty of raping and abusing a child.

Ruthless Paedophile convicted

Would anybody be upset if that ruthless paedophile was Tasered by Police?

Mary Neal (183)
Friday June 19, 2009, 5:56 am
Did you have your morning coffee yet?

You are very off topic here. The 72-year-old great grandma did not rape anyone or sexually abuse a child. She refused to sign her traffic ticket at first, and by the time she agreed to sign it, the policman was already offended to the point that he thought she deserved being zapped with 500 volts of electricity, knocked to the ground on her weak, brittle bones, screamed at to get her hands behind her back, and threatened with repeated Tasering.

Have your coffee and come back. There was nothing remotely sexual going on between the officer and his elderly victim. What happened? Did you awaken feeling frisky this morning?

Friday June 19, 2009, 1:18 pm

What we have here is a prime example of people who can not see into the future. They can not connect the dots. They can not grasp examples or correlations.

Wow... some people just don't get it do they?

People scream and shout about how Tasers need to be banned and I post reasons why they shouldn't!

I post example after example of why Tasers are useful tools and some people have to read more into it than that... funny how the same people read more into stories than what is there...

Did I say she was assaulted?

No! (I posted a news link of why Tasers are needed... after people wrote they should be banned!)

Does the News article say anything about weak brittle bones?

No! (But that doesn't stop the poster from going off of subject and speculating!)

Do Tasers have 500 volts of electricity?

No! (Not even close to 500 volts... 50,000 volts yes... 500 volts no... which proves that most people on this thread don't know anything about Tasers!)

Does the article say anything about mental illness?

No! (But that didn't stop the original poster from taking an innocuous news story (about a rude lady that resisted arrest) and getting way off subject about mental illness. It should be mentioned that the same person made the following way off base comments:

"I think he wanted to kill her."

"I bet that officer beats his wife, unless she left him already."

"Undress his children, teachers, and look for the marks. I am sure they are there somewhere!"


Connie C (15)
Tuesday June 30, 2009, 7:59 pm
This is the kind of stuff that sends me hiding in the nearest corner (I'd say closet, but the room I'm in now doesn't have a closet). I was beaten up by police when I was homeless in '06. They were only supposed to transport me to the nearest psych bed as a voluntary patient- but that wasn't enough for them. Any wonder I don't trust police. Too often they abuse their power, and do not even try to understand the people they are supposed to be helping.

Helping Professionals- this includes all police- please see the educational workshop at It's downloadable so you can share it with all.
CJ Conklin, MEd founder 2008

Saturday July 4, 2009, 5:05 am

Here are three videos of Police Brutality:

Police Brutality Video 1

Police Brutality Video II

Police Brutality Video III

Yes, it is unfortunate that you experienced Police Brutality... but the story and video link that Mary posted for this thread is not Police Brutality... it doesn't even come close!

If you are pulled over and the officer writes a ticket... and you refuse to sign that ticket... you will be arrested!

If you refuse to obey Nine Lawful Orders by a Police Officer... The Officer is within their lawful duties to arrest you!

If you struggle with the Officer after refusing Nine Lawful Orders... The Officer is within their lawful duties to use appropriate restraint and force to arrest you... The Fact that the 72 Year Old did not need or require medical care after her arrest shows that appropriate force was used!

The only thing that is causing people to react in anger and shock to this story is her sex and age. The fact that she was rude, nasty, argumentative, combative and was resisting arrest is being ignored by people on this thread who are trying to find fault with an Officer who was just trying to do his job!

These same people also created a 2nd Care2 account in order to verbally attack the comments that they did not agree with... in direct violation of Care2 Terms of Service agreements... How are these people any different from the very Police that they were complaining about?

Again... the only reason why people are upset is because of her sex and age... and as far as I am concerned that is not a valid excuse!

Her actions placed the safety of the driving public, pedestrians, construction workers and the police officer at risk... and we have Care2 members who are crying that she was somehow treated wrong?

I don't buy it and the fact remains... she brought on herself. She has nobody to blame but herself!

In closing: I watched the full arrest video... after she was handcuffed the officer continued being very respectful to the lady... but you don't hear anyone talking about that do you?

Cynthia Davis (340)
Saturday July 4, 2009, 6:16 am
WSentinels Watch Said....
"These same people also created a 2nd Care2 account in order to verbally attack the comments that they did not agree with... in direct violation of Care2 Terms of Service agreements... How are these people any different from the very Police that they were complaining about?"

What are you talking about? Please explain this statment. Have you gone off the deep end or what? I don't know of anyone on this thread who has made a different account in order to verbally attack anyone.

Saturday July 4, 2009, 6:46 am
Care2 Moderators have deleted seven posts off of this thread because that person created a 2nd Care2 Account in order to attack the comments of a person they did not agree with...

As that person became angrier, there posts became more abusive!

Their posts always began with "Sir" as they misspelled one word after another!

If you take a look at the "Noted By" you will notice that there is a blank profile with no information anymore!

Yes: "These same people also created a 2nd Care2 account in order to verbally attack the comments that they did not agree with... in direct violation of Care2 Terms of Service agreements... How are these people any different from the very Police that they were complaining about?"

Answer: They are no better than what they were complaining about... and if you had taken the time to look at the profile they created that day... they did it in the name of God and Jesus!


Mary Neal (183)
Saturday July 4, 2009, 1:40 pm
Thank you, Care2.

Cynthia Davis (340)
Saturday July 4, 2009, 2:34 pm
Well heck I miss everything. Sorry Sentinels Watch for the gone off the deep end remark.

Saturday July 4, 2009, 5:00 pm

You do not need to apologize for anything. I am not offended by peoples remarks. I enjoy creative discourse. I enjoy reading the thoughts and opinions of everyone!

I spot things that people will miss... and my wife is better at it than I am!

There are people on Care2 who have multiple accounts, they use them to create havoc on controversial threads. In fact, I had one person who had several accounts contact me directly with an offer of: "Providing Free Software" that he had developed... that would help me track threads!

I am not stupid to install software, that was written by a stranger on Care2... and a quick check showed that he had several accounts!

I turned him in to Care2... for a TOS Violation... Care2 suspended the one account and sent him a warning!

I have also spotted the Porn Spammer accounts and turned them in as well... Care2, as all sites like this, has to fight the porn people who create accounts and fill them with porn links... they don't have any friends, they don't have any stars, they have never signed any petitions...yet you will find link after link of porn.

The point is that it happens and if you know what to look for... you can spot it easily!

Again, there is no need to apologize for anything!

This thread that was created by Mary is very important to her. I know this. The fact that her brother died and how he died is horrible. No Excuse For It What-So-Ever!

I have seen Mary's post's on Youtube and her story is very touching... Nobody should have to experience what her brother went thourgh!

My perspective on this thread is that we have a 72 year old who broke the law... she brought the situation on to herself... this was not Police Brutality.... and the officer followed procedure!

Now... with that said.... please not that I did post three links today that show what police brutality is! They do in fact show officers out of control... What happened to the 72 year old is shocking, disturbing, and looks very bad, her screams would affect anybody's heart and create empathy for her... but she broke the law and brought on to herself and after she was restrained with handcuffs... she was treated very well!

If people want to raise heck about the video's I posted today and complain about Police Brutality... then I am on their side... but I am on the side of the law over the issue that Mary posted.

This is not the one to argue over... the Police Brutality Videos I, II, & III are the ones that should concern us all...

Mary Neal (183)
Sunday July 5, 2009, 9:56 pm
Thank you, Sentinels Watch for viewing my YouTube videos and your interest in the justice Quest for Larry Neal.

I welcome differing viewpoints on all of my articles. If we all agree on everything, this would not be real.

ANNOUNCEMENT: Most of my articles grow for months or years after their initial publication.

If ever you read an article I write about a mentally ill person being mistreated, a death row inmate hoping for new trial or DNA testing, or a law that is being considered, always check back and see what happened! See my articles at

Thank all of you for participating in this conversation on the old lady who was tasered by police. I just received information about a young mother whose child was killed in Louisiana, and she reacted hysterically. Of course, the police immediately tasered her to calm her down.

Tasers are like asprin in some law officers' mind - good for just about every situation.




Past Member (0)
Tuesday December 29, 2009, 11:50 pm
This should never have happened. She clearly told him she would sign the ticket. That should have been the end of it PERIOD! Too many cops think they can do whatever they want because they have a gun and a tin badge. Had this been my mother or grandmother, I would beat the hell out of that cop and whoever tried to stop me. He needs to be fired and never let back in law enforcement. He has the wrong temperment for the job.

coque iphone
Or, log in with your
Facebook account:
Please add your comment: (plain text only please. Allowable HTML: <a>)

Track Comments: Notify me with a personal message when other people comment on this story

Loading Noted By...Please Wait


butterfly credits on the news network

  • credits for vetting a newly submitted story
  • credits for vetting any other story
  • credits for leaving a comment
learn more

Most Active Today in US Politics & Gov't

Content and comments expressed here are the opinions of Care2 users and not necessarily that of or its affiliates.

New to Care2? Start Here.